The Night Harry's Parents Were Killed, Comments about the revised page? |
Mar 22 2006, 01:00 AM
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#1
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Searching for the 'Invisible Book of Invisibility'![]() ![]() Posts: 590 Joined: 8:44pm January 4, 2005 Location: Tossing garden gnomes ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Hi,
I have revised an older page over at the Lexicon that lays out the events the night Harry's parents were killed. Do you have questions that the pages doesn't acknowledge? Do you have theories about the mysteries remaining? URL: The Night Harry's Parents Were Killed -------------------- |
Mar 22 2006, 05:52 PM
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Just Through the Brick Wall![]() Posts: 2 Joined: 5:43pm March 22, 2006 Location: New York, NY USA |
Some notes:
• It says in that article that we don't know what happened to Lily and James's bodies. Well, we do have some information: according to Harry at the end of HBP, he's going to visit the graves of his parents at Godric's Hollow, so, we can safely assume that Lily and James were buried somewhere in Godric's Hollow (in a graveyard? maybe under their house?) This raises some more questions, however. Who buried them? Who went back to get the bodies? How does Harry know where they are buried, or that they are buried at all? • Lily and James's wands: is it possible that they were destroyed with the house? We know that magical people are protected from minor injuries, but how about magical objects? We've seen Ron's wand broken by the Whomping Willow in COS, so we know that wands can be destroyed, and easily. • "Many fans believe that Snape was the one who told Dumbledore that Voldemort intended to kill the Potter's child." So does this mean that Snape told Dumbledore the whole of the prophecy, or that he ommited some parts? -------------------- --Julian
( travisemergency.com ) |
Mar 22 2006, 06:24 PM
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#3
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie![]() Posts: 86 Joined: 6:13pm July 13, 2005 |
QUOTE(Julian Bennett Holmes @ Mar 22 2006, 10:52 PM) [snapback]753261[/snapback] Some notes: • It says in that article that we don't know what happened to Lily and James's bodies. Well, we do have some information: according to Harry at the end of HBP, he's going to visit the graves of his parents at Godric's Hollow, so, we can safely assume that Lily and James were buried somewhere in Godric's Hollow (in a graveyard? maybe under their house?) This raises some more questions, however. Who buried them? Who went back to get the bodies? How does Harry know where they are buried, or that they are buried at all? • Lily and James's wands: is it possible that they were destroyed with the house? We know that magical people are protected from minor injuries, but how about magical objects? We've seen Ron's wand broken by the Whomping Willow in COS, so we know that wands can be destroyed, and easily. • "Many fans believe that Snape was the one who told Dumbledore that Voldemort intended to kill the Potter's child." So does this mean that Snape told Dumbledore the whole of the prophecy, or that he ommited some parts? As for the first question, I would assume that muggles buried them. I envision this: the muggle police arrive, they sort through the wreckage, pull out 2 bodies. I think it is likely that the Potters were not native to Godric's Hollow. I mean, if you're going into hiding, you go somewhere new, right? Not your hometown probably. So the muggles don't know much about them because they haven't been there long. Plus, the first thing policemen do is look for ID - James certainly would have nothing a muggle would recognize and while it is possible that Lily has some kind of ID, it's probably from before she went to school, when she lived as a muggle. So the muggles don't know who they are, or where they came from. They have no way of tracking their living relatives down or finding anyone who knew them. Probably they would just bury them in the local cemetary when no one came to claim the bodies. It's possible also that wizards came and claimed the bodies, but you would think that someone would have mentioned this to Harry. Or maybe they did and the wizards had them buried in Godric's Hollow and told Harry that. If no one went to claim the bodies, Harry might just be making an educated guess. After all, even if his parents aren't actually buried there, he would probably want to see the lot or whatever is left of the house. I think the idea that the wands were destroyed when the house collapsed is a good one. Even if they weren't completely destroyed, they probably wouldn't have been salvaged by any muggles dealing with the remains of the house. As for the last question, Dumbledore heard the whole prophecy since it was told to him. I believe that Snape was the spy that heard the first 2 parts of the prophecy and passed them on to LV. The info he gave Dumbledore later was that LV was going after Harry, not Neville. |
Mar 24 2006, 11:46 AM
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Just Through the Brick Wall![]() Posts: 2 Joined: 5:43pm March 22, 2006 Location: New York, NY USA |
QUOTE As for the first question, I would assume that muggles buried them. I envision this: the muggle police arrive, they sort through the wreckage, pull out 2 bodies. I think it is likely that the Potters were not native to Godric's Hollow. I mean, if you're going into hiding, you go somewhere new, right? Not your hometown probably. So the muggles don't know much about them because they haven't been there long. Plus, the first thing policemen do is look for ID - James certainly would have nothing a muggle would recognize and while it is possible that Lily has some kind of ID, it's probably from before she went to school, when she lived as a muggle. So the muggles don't know who they are, or where they came from. They have no way of tracking their living relatives down or finding anyone who knew them. Probably they would just bury them in the local cemetary when no one came to claim the bodies. It's possible also that wizards came and claimed the bodies, but you would think that someone would have mentioned this to Harry. Or maybe they did and the wizards had them buried in Godric's Hollow and told Harry that. If no one went to claim the bodies, Harry might just be making an educated guess. After all, even if his parents aren't actually buried there, he would probably want to see the lot or whatever is left of the house. Maybe Hagrid buried them during that mysterious "missing day" in there? -------------------- --Julian
( travisemergency.com ) |
Mar 24 2006, 01:10 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 151 Joined: 4:05pm November 13, 2005 Location: Almost a grown up |
You wrote a great page. It really pulls together a lot of key information. I have some questions about the dialog that you included
QUOTE Man’s voice: "Lily, take Harry and go! It’s him! Go! Run! I’ll hold him off ------" Much of this is taken from dreams/voices that Harry experienced when he encountered dementors. In the Potter world, how reliable are these experiences as factual accounts of what happened? I do not recall whether Harry received any feedback on their reliability as being factually accurate from anyone else. As you note later, he described some of it to Remus Lupin, but Lupin did not really confirm that it could have been what happened. This is especially true for the voices that Harry heard in Chapter 9 of PoA, where no names are mentioned. We are left to accept Harry's interpretation, that he is hearing the events at Godric's Hollow. Has JKR ever confirmed this, or is there anything other information that I am missing? How does this tally with the idea that Harry never witnessed the deaths of his parents because he was too young?
Lily goes to Harry's room where he is in his cot [crib]. According to Voldemort, James died "straight-backed and proud." (GF34) The sounds of someone stumbling from a room -- a door bursting open -- a cackle of high-pitched laughter -- (PA12) Lily’s voice: "Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!" Voldemort: "Stand aside you silly girl … stand aside now." Lily: "Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead ----- " Lily: "Not Harry! Please … have mercy … have mercy… " Harry hears a shrill voice laughing and the woman screaming (PA9, PA12). Then Harry remembers a blinding green flash and a burning pain in his forehead, then a high, cold cruel laugh. Voldemort had used the Avada Kedavra Curse on Lily and Harry. -------------------- Taking time off from studying, parenting and life's chores.
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Mar 24 2006, 10:32 PM
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Searching for the 'Invisible Book of Invisibility'![]() ![]() Posts: 590 Joined: 8:44pm January 4, 2005 Location: Tossing garden gnomes ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
NewToThis, I will talk this over with Steve, but I am inclined to take this at face value. What he "hears" under the influence of the Dementors jives with everything we know about that night. No one -- not Lupin, not Dumbledore -- has even hinted that this type of memory is distorted in some way. Jo has never talked about this (she hasn't been asked about it either).
I don't see a conflict related to Jo's Thestral/death explanation because he did not *see* the murders, he hears them. Here's what Jo says on her websitez; QUOTE Yes, I can, definitely. That is a really good question, because it enables me to clear up a point. The letters that I’ve had about the Thestrals! Everyone has said to me that Harry saw people die before could see the Thestrals. Just to clear this up once and for all, this was not a mistake. I would be the first to say that I have made mistakes in the books, but this was not a mistake. I really thought this one through. Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time. Although you never see that scene, I wrote it and then cut it. He didn’t see it; he was too young to appreciate it. When you find out about the Thestrals, you find that you can see them only when you really understand death in a broader sense, when you really know what it means. Someone said that Harry saw Quirrell die, but that is not true. He was unconscious when Quirrell died, in Philosopher’s Stone. He did not know until he came around that Quirrell had died when Voldemort left his body. Then you have Cedric. With Cedric, fair point. Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there. I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book. She always uses the word "see." Harry couldn't have seen Lily's murder from his cot but he would have heard it. This post has been edited by LisaQQQ: Mar 24 2006, 10:46 PM -------------------- |
Mar 24 2006, 10:45 PM
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Monster Book Stacker![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 366 Joined: 10:09pm July 23, 2005 Location: Michigan |
Maybe the house is like Siruis unplotable unseen to muggles eyes, Wormtail could of told DD and Hagrid how to get to it besides LV. All we ever hear is "Godric's Hollow" we don't here like we did the key to get to Sirius's #12 Grimwold? or #4 Pivet Dr. maybe it's something like #7 Godric's Hollow and then the house can be seen/entered so Harry could go there and find the house the way it was when his parents were killed look how long Siruis house was empty and not seen? just a thought
-------------------- It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live
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Mar 24 2006, 10:52 PM
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Searching for the 'Invisible Book of Invisibility'![]() ![]() Posts: 590 Joined: 8:44pm January 4, 2005 Location: Tossing garden gnomes ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Interesting thought, candyf66. I can't think of anything that would contradict that.
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Mar 25 2006, 04:57 AM
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic![]() Posts: 9,192 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The bodies of Lily and James were there because Sirius mentions them in his "I as good as killed them" speech half way through chapter 19 of PoA. I always assumed that Sirius and Hagrid buried them - it wouldn't take long judging by how fast Slughorn filled Aragog's grave.
It is a very good question as to how Hagrid was able to find the house and rescue Harry given that it was protected by a Fidelius charm, and only those that Wormtail told directly knew the precise location of the Potters (FAQ poll answer), which means that Hagrid couldn't have been in on the secret as no-one knew that Wormtail was the real secret keeper. I also notice that the days of the week go Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. -------------------- ![]() W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
Mar 25 2006, 11:20 AM
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Monster Book Stacker![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 366 Joined: 10:09pm July 23, 2005 Location: Michigan |
QUOTE(roonwit @ Mar 25 2006, 09:57 AM) [snapback]756232[/snapback] The bodies of Lily and James were there because Sirius mentions them in his "I as good as killed them" speech half way through chapter 19 of PoA. I always assumed that Sirius and Hagrid buried them - it wouldn't take long judging by how fast Slughorn filled Aragog's grave. It is a very good question as to how Hagrid was able to find the house and rescue Harry given that it was protected by a Fidelius charm, and only those that Wormtail told directly knew the precise location of the Potters (FAQ poll answer), which means that Hagrid couldn't have been in on the secret as no-one knew that Wormtail was the real secret keeper. I also notice that the days of the week go Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. But think back to what Harry was told about #12 he read it on a piece of paper written by DD moody didn't tell him or any of the other Phoenix members the secret keeper (DD) had to tell Harry as simply as it being written down, So before wormtail turned traitor he could of told or written it down to DD, Hagrid and Sirius. Also Sirius did know that wormtail was the secret keeper lupin just assumed it was Sirius since him and James where best friends wormtail would of told DD since he was the head of the order. -------------------- It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live
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Mar 22 2006, 01:00 AM













