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Nurmengard - a concentration camp?, And what about Azkaban?
innkeeper_tom
post Sep 11 2008, 05:39 AM
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Nurmengard - a concentration camp?
And what about Azkaban?

Nurmengard - the "other" prison for wizards, was installed by Grindelwald, as we have learned from DD. In the name of the "Greater Good", of course. Taking a closer look Nurmengard closely resembles the institution of the Nazi concentration camps, and served more or less the same purpose, that is to lock behind bars those who were not wanted by the regime for whatever reason.
In Nazi concentration these were members of so-called "inferior races" (Jews, Sinti, Roma, etc.), political adversaries (social-democrats, communists, liberals), and those having a different belief (notably including a number of christian commitments).
For Nurmengard we may safely assume a pretty similar combination of the aforementioned larger groups, yet the definitions would be different. "Inferior" would be all those descending from at least one Muggle parent (as well as squibs), the political adversaries would here be all who actively oppose the regime, of different belief those do not care for the blood status.
The alledged purpose in both cases would be to re-educate the "disbelivers", and to eliminate all "inferiors" by whatever means.
Do you see the parallels? Are the Nazi concentration camps the "model" for Nurmengard? Does the name "Nurmengard" hold any clue as to what we have to imagine?

Now what distinguishes Nurmengard from Azkaban?
We don't know much about how Nurmengard was protected. A safe assumption would be that all means of magical transport like the Floo network, (side-along) apparition, use of brooms, etc. would be made impossible by counter-jinxes. But what else? Can you imagine?
In contrast, we know rather precisely what other measures to preclude escape have been taken at Azkaban. Of course, I'm talking about Dementors being in charge as guards. Their deleterious influence on almost all prisoners (with the notable exception of Sirius) made it impossible for said prisoners to come up with coherent thoughts about fleeing. My question is, if this is not again reminding of a concentration camp, where the personality of the imprisoned was likely to be broken?

What are your thoughts?


This post has been edited by innkeeper_tom: Sep 12 2008, 12:34 AM


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Anna-leden
post Sep 19 2008, 01:40 PM
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I think you're right about the nazi/concentration camp connections and I've always assumed that Nermengard was a twist on the name Nuremberg; the german city in which the first international war trial was held to condemn nazi leaders and those who played a significant part in the war crimes committed by the nazi party. Perhaps the link is also with the fact that Grindelwald was imprisoned within his own uh, prison in the same way that the nazi leaders were imprisoned in the very city where the annual rallies were held and which Hitler had decided to rebuild it as a 'party city'.
Though there could still very well be links with the concentration camps I again assumed that Azkaban was Jo's wizarding version of the famous prison Alcatraz which was America's top-security prison also based on a lonely rock surrounded by the sea, and was the final destination for America's 'hardcore' criminals between the 1930s and 1960s.


My source about Nuremberg comes from the BBC website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwt...rticle_01.shtml


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post Sep 23 2008, 06:40 PM
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I have a feeling that Nurmengard is sort of like the wizarding concentration camp, but I think that it wouldn't be for muggle borns. From what I understand, GG wasn't anti muggle,he just wanted to control them, be their master. I would think that it would be for other wizards, ones that might have been a threat to him, or a place to hold the until interrogation.


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Hatun punchaw
post Sep 28 2008, 02:54 PM
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I just wonder if it anybody aside from Gellert was imprisoned there or if it was ever finished.
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post Sep 28 2008, 03:38 PM
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Maybe it was Gellert and his officers (We don't know much about his campaign, but he must have had people like Bellatrix and Snape, or what Voldemort thought Snape was.) Or maybe it was anyone who supported Gellert. I think that the Wizarding World would want to take advantage of a prison just sitting there, so it might be like Azkaban's sister prison, but not as bad.


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ShanksForte
post Sep 28 2008, 04:43 PM
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It is (partially) based off a Nazi concentration camp I'd assume, the time frame is right, and the way they talk about it makes it seem like. I'm not sure why or by which means, though smile.gif


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Professor L E Sn...
post Oct 1 2008, 11:26 AM
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I may be wrong but I thought Grindelwald built Nurmengard to hold those that opposed his anti muggle movements, and then was later imprisoned there after his defeat by Dumbledore? I always wondered why Grindelwald was unable to break out of Nurmengard-in OOTP DD says that he will not go to Azkaban ("I could escape, of course"), and if there was only supposed to be a slight difference between DD and GW magical ability you would have thought that id DD could escape Azkaban then Grindelwald could escape Nurmengard, a prison he himself commisioned to be built?


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post Oct 1 2008, 02:33 PM
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I think that when DD defeated GG, GG sort of gave up. He was very driven towards his goal, but everything had always come relatively easily for him. So when he was defeated, without a wand, and imprisoned in his own prison, I believe that he lost the will to try.


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Sirius_Craic
post Oct 1 2008, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE(Professor L E Snape @ Oct 1 2008, 12:26 PM) *
in OOTP DD says that he will not go to Azkaban ("I could escape, of course")

I always assumed that was Dumbledore just saying that. To give the minister the impression that there was no way Dumbledore would comply with him and no way he had control over Dumbledore. ponder.gif


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post Oct 1 2008, 02:53 PM
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I don't know, I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore could escape. Remember Fawkes?! And I'm pretty sure he has magic that we don't touch on in the books. He might be an animagus, if 15 James, Sirius, and especially Peter could do it, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore could.


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