P3 Chat: 5/27/07, HP7 Chapter: Magical Creatures |
 May 27 2007, 04:08 PM
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Organizing the Halo Rebellion  Posts: 3,301 Joined: 2:09pm April 16, 2006 Location: Being angelic, of course   |
Today's Text Chat Moderators were: Aislinn, cloudpic, Expelliarmas, fawkes28, Mr. McGonagall, Prongs Patronus
[14:58] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [14:58] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [15:00] *** Puzzlepiece has joined #lounge [15:00] <fawkes28> hello Puzzlepiece [15:03] <fawkes28> how is everyone today? [15:03] *** Puzzlepiece has quit [Bye] [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> ? [15:03] *** Puzzlepiece has joined #lounge [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> wb, puzzle [15:04] <Puzzlepiece> hi all [15:04] <ProngsPatronus> hello! [15:04] *** You_wont_know_who has joined #lounge [15:04] <ProngsPatronus> hey, YWKW [15:05] <You_wont_know_who> hi everybody [15:05] <You_wont_know_who> hi Prongs [15:06] <fawkes28> hello ywkw smile [15:06] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:06] <You_wont_know_who> hi fawkes [15:07] <MrMcGonagall> I've been looking forward to this chat. We get to discuss fawkes28's brilliant essay on Magical Creatures. What could be better? [15:07] <Puzzlepiece> hi Aislinn [15:07] <You_wont_know_who> hi Ann [15:07] *** Kneazly has joined #lounge [15:07] <Aislinn> glad to see you [15:07] <You_wont_know_who> nothing could be better indeed [15:07] <Aislinn> Hi YWKW! [15:07] <ProngsPatronus> hey, Kneazly! [15:07] <Kneazly> Hi you all [15:07] <Puzzlepiece> hi smile [15:07] <fawkes28> hello kneazly [15:07] <ProngsPatronus> it is a brilliant essay [15:07] <You_wont_know_who> hi Kneazly [15:07] <Kneazly> Good essay, Fawkes [15:07] <You_wont_know_who> hi puzzlepiece [15:07] * fawkes28 blushes [15:07] <fawkes28> thanks smile [15:08] <MrMcGonagall> Fawkes is a brilliant phoenix. [15:08] *** janieb has joined #lounge [15:08] <ProngsPatronus> fiery [15:08] <ProngsPatronus> hi, janieb [15:08] <You_wont_know_who> phoenixes are incredible [15:08] <Kneazly> Hi Janieb [15:08] <You_wont_know_who> lol Prongs, I thought the same [15:09] <ProngsPatronus> lol [15:09] <janieb> Hello Awesome Ones [15:09] <fawkes28> phoenixes do rock, if i must say [15:09] <Aislinn> hi janieb [15:09] <Kneazly> Literally? [15:09] <MrMcGonagall> Well, except on burning days, when they look kind of nasty. [15:09] <ProngsPatronus> and they are good with BBQ sauce, too [15:09] <Puzzlepiece> Phornixs are amazing in all myths and stories [15:09] <fawkes28> gee, thanks Mr. M and Prongs [15:09] <Aislinn> with that special secret ingredient [15:09] <ProngsPatronus> lol [15:10] <You_wont_know_who> lol [15:10] <janieb> Did I come at a bad time? [15:10] <MrMcGonagall> It's true. Phoenixes taste like chicken. [15:10] <ProngsPatronus> no, janieb! [15:10] <ProngsPatronus> we are just teasing fawkes [15:10] <You_wont_know_who> let me guess - their feathers [15:10] <MrMcGonagall> We just love teasing our ickle phoenix. [15:10] <You_wont_know_who> the time is right [15:10] <janieb> I just wondered--bbq'ed phoenix--oh my [15:11] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:11] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:11] <ProngsPatronus> yum--bring on the coleslaw! [15:11] <fawkes28> they just think they are funny that's all [15:11] <You_wont_know_who> lol [15:11] <Puzzlepiece> do you deny that they are at all? [15:11] <Kneazly> Can we cook corn in the ashes? [15:11] <fawkes28> apparently teasing is a form of endearment wink [15:11] <MrMcGonagall> It is, fawkes, it is. [15:11] <You_wont_know_who> we are funny [15:12] <fawkes28> says who? [15:12] <Aislinn> ooh, yum, good idea knezly [15:12] <Aislinn> kneazly [15:12] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [15:12] <Aislinn> hey chocolate [15:12] <You_wont_know_who> it is a form of appreciation too [15:12] <ProngsPatronus> hey, chocolate! [15:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :) hey guys [15:12] <You_wont_know_who> says all of us [15:12] <Puzzlepiece> hey chocolate [15:12] <Kneazly> Hi chocolate. [15:12] <janieb> I knew you'd rise to the occasion, Fawkes! [15:13] <Aislinn> she does have wings after all [15:13] <ProngsPatronus> yep--it is rare that a celebrated author is also a food source [15:13] <You_wont_know_who> hi Chocolate, nice to see you (always) [15:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehe, howdy ywkw [15:13] <You_wont_know_who> Phoenix rising [15:13] <Aislinn> hehehehe [15:13] <fawkes28> hahahaha [15:14] <fawkes28> i provide reading and food - how nice of me laugh [15:14] <You_wont_know_who> oh dear Prongs, that was funny!!! [15:14] <MrMcGonagall> You are a great hostess, fawkes. [15:14] <Puzzlepiece> brb [15:14] <ProngsPatronus> now that's what I call well-rounded, fawkes! [15:14] <ProngsPatronus> grin [15:15] <fawkes28> you all crack me up [15:15] <You_wont_know_who> and you raise to the bait, Fawkes biggrin [15:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't even know what ya'll are talking about, but i'm still chuckling a little [15:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :-D [15:16] <Puzzlepiece> alright [15:16] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:16] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:16] <fawkes28> shall we begin our chat? [15:16] <fawkes28> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon. [15:16] <fawkes28> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [15:17] <fawkes28> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [15:17] *** Ringo2000 has joined #lounge [15:17] <fawkes28> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [15:17] <fawkes28> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [15:17] <MrMcGonagall> In "Seen But Not Heard: Magical Creatures in Deathly Hallows," Fawkes28 has written a fantastic chapter considering the panoply of magical creatures that have played important roles in the series. "Some have saved Harry's life during his first six years at Hogwarts while others have tried to kill him." [15:17] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [15:17] <MrMcGonagall> Which creatures will "risk their lives to help him win the war, …remain neutral or side with Lord Voldemort"? [15:17] <MrMcGonagall> Some magical creatures are essentially beings, rather similar to humans, others are magical animals and others defy classification. Let's examine some of the fascinating creatures who will play "an important role in whether or not good triumphs over evil." Fawkes28 unsurprisingly elects to open with Dumbledore's amazing magical companion, the crimson and gold phoenix, Fawkes. [15:18] <ProngsPatronus> hey ringo, cloupic! [15:18] <MrMcGonagall> To enjoy Fawkes28's chapter, visit HarryPotterSeven.com or By Clicking Here [15:18] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [15:18] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [15:18] <MrMcGonagall> Using magical tears, Dumbledore's phoenix, Fawkes, healed Harry's mortal basilisk wound. How did Fawkes know his help was needed, that the wound was deadly? Why weren't others helped when in mortal danger… including Dumbledore himself? [15:18] <You_wont_know_who> Phoenix of course [15:19] <Ringo2000> Hey Guys [15:19] <Ringo2000> Sorry I was late [15:19] *** janieb has quit [Bye] [15:19] <You_wont_know_who> hi Ringo and cloudpic [15:19] <JaneMarple9> hello everybody...talk about timing smile [15:19] <You_wont_know_who> hi Jane [15:19] <Kneazly> Hi Jane, Ringo, cloudpic [15:19] <Ringo2000> Hey Jane [15:19] <Ringo2000> lol biggrin [15:19] <ProngsPatronus> hey, jane [15:19] <JaneMarple9> hi there YWKW and everybody else too [15:19] <Ringo2000> I think Dumbledore had an Idea [15:19] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think that it's kind of like how Prophecies can come about to affect the fate of something.... Fawkes inherently knew that Harry needed to survive for the big picture [15:19] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:19] <Ringo2000> What was going on in the Chamber [15:19] <ProngsPatronus> I have always wondered that myself--why didn't fawkes help with Bill? [15:19] <Kneazly> I think Dumbledore didn't have a wound as such, so Fawkes couldn't help [15:19] <fawkes28> Harry showed great loyalty to Dumbledore and in turn Fawkes showed loyalty to Harry [15:20] <Ringo2000> True, fawkes28 [15:20] <Puzzlepiece> DD knew he was going to die and it was time. Fawkes knew not to stop it whereas Harry was not ready yet [15:20] <Ringo2000> It was like returning the favour. [15:20] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:20] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:20] <Ringo2000> I think Fawkes acts on DD's actions and beliefs. [15:20] <You_wont_know_who> phoenix might follow Harry and help him in a crucial moment as it was already the case [15:20] *** Shard has joined #lounge [15:20] <Ringo2000> He does (as DD says) "makes a high faithful pet" [15:20] <Aislinn> hi shard [15:20] <Shard> Hi everyone [15:20] <JaneMarple9> fawkes is very loyal to dumbledore [15:20] <ProngsPatronus> the only way fawkes could help DD was if he intercepted the AK [15:21] <Aislinn> right prongs [15:21] <Kneazly> Maybe because DD was dead and unaware of Bill's injuries, Fawkes couldn't help [15:21] <Puzzlepiece> right [15:21] <You_wont_know_who> with Bill it was a hopeless case I suppose [15:21] <ProngsPatronus> hey, shard [15:21] <Ringo2000> Hey Shard [15:21] <You_wont_know_who> hi Shard [15:21] <Puzzlepiece> and perhaps for Bill it was all for the best in some twisted way [15:21] <Shard> bye1 [15:21] <ProngsPatronus> I think fawkes could have helped Bill, if he had been there [15:21] <fawkes28> i think Dumbledore wanted Harry to go on alone - fawkes couldn't save him that time [15:21] <Aislinn> his injuries may have been too varied and numerous to be treated with phoenix tears [15:21] <Ringo2000> I think he could have too [15:22] <Puzzlepiece> as with Bill, DD had already died and he had started to lament [15:22] <ProngsPatronus> if the tears worked against a basilisk, why not a werewolf? [15:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Phoenixes are symbolic of every mystery in the DoM, or the rooms we know of... through the song, Harry percieved thoughts... Brain Room... Fawkes affected fate, just like prophecies do... Hall of Prophecies... Fawkes experiences death, but also resurrection... death chamber... He is not bound by time... time room... and Fawkes is not bound by a specific place because he can appear anywhere at will, which I [15:22] <Ringo2000> Would have Phoenix Tears stopped the bite of a werewolf? [15:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and I think love is a big part of who Fawkes is, or what he represents [15:22] <Ringo2000> Isnt it meant to be Fatal? [15:22] <MrMcGonagall> Here's a functional link to the essay for all who would like it. http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#static:...agicalcreatures [15:22] <JaneMarple9> fawkes couldn't had repaired dumble even if he wanted to...it was time for dumble to go sad [15:22] <Puzzlepiece> right [15:22] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [15:22] <Shard> Yeah even Fakes can't heal death [15:22] <ProngsPatronus> that is a great point, chocolate [15:23] <JaneMarple9> i think thats a crow of a rooster to a basilisk ringo [15:23] <Kneazly> Boy, chocolate, that's cool [15:23] <fawkes28> yes, jane - the show must go on [15:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thanks smile i've been thinking about phoenixes lately, if it's not obvious lol [15:23] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:23] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:23] <You_wont_know_who> werewolfs are different from basilisks, they are also humans and wizards [15:23] <Ringo2000> True, fawkes. [15:23] <Ringo2000> (and Jane biggrin) [15:23] <You_wont_know_who> hi Mafalda [15:23] <MrMcGonagall> Saving Dumbledore from Lord Voldemort's Avada Kedavra, Fawkes "Swallowed the jet of green light whole…burst into flame and was reborn." Does this mean there is a "loophole" in the inevitable killing power of this curse? What might this suggest for Book 7? Why did Fawkes "swallow" the light rather than simply let it hit him? [15:23] <Kneazly> Maybe Fawkes could have helped Bill, but he can't be everywhere and he was with DD [15:24] <ProngsPatronus> hi, Mafalda! [15:24] <Ringo2000> wb Aislinn [15:24] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [15:24] <Ringo2000> Hmm... [15:24] <JaneMarple9> hi malafada and (((Cloud))) too [15:24] <Aislinn> I think it was an interception - fawkes took the unblockable curse instead of Dumbledore [15:24] <Ringo2000> I love this question [15:24] <MafaldaWeasley> Hello guys! Sorry I'm late and I blame the muffins [15:24] <You_wont_know_who> yes, love is the most important thing but also there are some limits concerning magic and magical creatures [15:24] <fawkes28> i think that Fawkes just reacted out of instinct [15:24] <Aislinn> I don't see it as a loophole [15:24] <Ringo2000> Same, Aislinn, I think possibly that it was an act of a Phoenix's nature to protect there owners. [15:24] <Kneazly> Maybe it's like accepting and dealing with death = swallow, rather than just letting it happen to you=letting it hit you [15:24] <Puzzlepiece> it might have been an accident. Or, that way he remained whole in death rather than part of him being blown off. We dont know if he loses his tail if it grows back when he is reborn [15:25] <ProngsPatronus> I think fawkes might have died if it had hit him---but, by swallowing it, it interacted with the magic that fawkes already possesses [15:25] <You_wont_know_who> a killing curse is just like a bullet - you can save somebody shielding him or her [15:25] <MrMcGonagall> Well, I think a phoenix really does die and then is reborn. It's not like a revolving time-turner thing. [15:25] <fawkes28> that may be true, prongs [15:25] <Ringo2000> True, MrMcGonagall [15:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> me neither, Aislinn... I think fawkes was just killed, and then was resurrected like normal... Dumbledore's time on the planet wasn't done. Fawkes has been around for ages and ages, and is almost like a symbol of a higher power that is in ultimate control... it wasn't his time [15:25] <MafaldaWeasley> yes, PP that was what I was thinking. I think that maybe it has something to do with magic of Fawkes [15:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it wasn't Dumbledore's time, that is [15:25] <Aislinn> I agree chocolate [15:26] <Aislinn> phoenix's are immortal, so he can be killed an reborn [15:26] <cloudpic> If so he's letting it kill him, Mr. McG. why did he swallow it rather than just let it hit him? [15:26] <You_wont_know_who> right Kneazly [15:26] <Ringo2000> I think there must be a point in it's life where it will die, no matter what, there will be a time and a place. [15:26] <Puzzlepiece> i think that way he knew that no bit of the curse flew over him. he took the entire thing. nobody would die [15:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think it's just better, visually... makes it seem completely intentional, not just "ohh, i got in the way" it's "I'm doing this, and it's completely my choice" [15:26] <Puzzlepiece> right chocolate [15:26] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree choco [15:27] <Shard> Never under estimate the power of a good and well timed Phoenix Song I say [15:27] <cloudpic> Oh, I like that, chocolate... emphasizing choice! [15:27] <Aislinn> yes, chocolate [15:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha shard [15:27] <Kneazly> Yes, the choice to accept death, rather than have it seem accidental [15:27] <ProngsPatronus> that is a good point puzzle [15:27] <fawkes28> perhaps fawkes was going for fear as a factor as well - i would find it pretty intimidating if someone i was trying to kill swallowed the curse [15:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> seriously, fawkes! [15:27] <cloudpic> So maybe swallowing it kept it from grazing him and getting someone else, Puzzle? [15:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i'd be a little shaken up [15:28] <Kneazly> Perhaps it shows LV underestimating phoenixes again, too [15:28] <Puzzlepiece> I think JKR likes swallowing. Harry swallowed the snitch, Fawkes swallowed the curse.... [15:28] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:28] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:28] <fawkes28> yes, Kneazly [15:28] <ProngsPatronus> seemed to me that fawkes worked well as a team with DD, and that this was something he had done before [15:28] <Shard> I thinkn that is how Fawkes asorbed the spell, drew all the light into it's mouth, to make sure he took it all and it didn't miss him [15:28] <Ringo2000> It was an act of love, a very high act of love, which shows alot for Fawkes' character and his relationship with Dumbledore. [15:28] <MrMcGonagall> Such wonderfully loyal pets. [15:28] <Ringo2000> lol smile [15:28] <MrMcGonagall> What might draw Fawkes back into the action in Deathly Hallows ? [15:28] <fawkes28> yes, and Voldemort still doesn't get it [15:28] <Kneazly> Another instance of self-sacrifice, then [15:29] <ProngsPatronus> Harry [15:29] <Ringo2000> Dumbledore? [15:29] <Aislinn> he knows that Harry is still Dumbledore's man through and through [15:29] <cloudpic> Didn't Harry think Fawkes had left for good? [15:29] <fawkes28> an intense moment during the final battle [15:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I really think that phoenixes are going to be huge... the represent the immortality that Voldemort wants, the loyalty that Harry has, the connection between Harry and Voldemort, and Harry and Dumbledore... [15:29] <Shard> Harry's loyalty to DD I think [15:29] <Aislinn> he left the school for good [15:29] <MrMcGonagall> I'm not sure that we'll see Fawkes again. [15:29] <Kneazly> Left Hogwarts, maybe, but I think he'll help Harry [15:29] <fawkes28> nah, i think fawkes will be back to help harry in some way [15:29] <Ringo2000> We do find out more about Dumbledore's character, maybe we learn more on fawkes and how he became Dumbledore's Pet. [15:29] <ProngsPatronus> but harry isn't going to be at the school--he will be out in the world [15:29] <cloudpic> How will Fawkes know he's needed though? [15:29] <Aislinn> I completely agree chocolate - I think he is going to play a big role [15:29] <You_wont_know_who> the mortal combat [15:30] <Aislinn> he will be both prongs, at the school and out in the world [15:30] <Kneazly> Same way he somehow knew he was needed in CoS. a mystery, though [15:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I, personally, see the symbol on the spine as the symbol of a phoenix.... triangle is for fire, circle is for eternity [15:30] <Puzzlepiece> loyalty to the school- DD will never be gone until none are left there that are loyal. I feel this statement will tie into Fawkes [15:30] <Kneazly> Maybe Harry will show loyalty again [15:30] <fawkes28> we harry gets very emotional and voldemort insults dumbledore - harry will show his loyalty [15:30] <cloudpic> So the phoenix sort of senses the need through loyalty and fierceness of need [15:30] <fawkes28> i do too, Puzzlepiece [15:30] <Ringo2000> I love that idea, chocolateisnot smile [15:30] <Aislinn> that seems to be what we've seen so far, cloudpic [15:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thanks ringo smile [15:30] <You_wont_know_who> I wonder if Voldemort can summon Fawkes in some way [15:30] <ProngsPatronus> JKR said that Harry would be getting a new pet--maybe it will be fawkes [15:30] <cloudpic> Voldemort? [15:30] <Ringo2000> I deny that [15:31] <Shard> I doubt it YWKW [15:31] <Aislinn> ooh, I wouldn't think so YwKW [15:31] <Puzzlepiece> Could that be what they are reaching for? [15:31] <MafaldaWeasley> Interesting PP [15:31] *** janieb has joined #lounge [15:31] <Shard> I agree Prongs [15:31] <fawkes28> voldemort fears fawkes far too much [15:31] <Aislinn> I was wondering if that was what Harry was reaching for, puzzle [15:31] <MafaldaWeasley> I had a thought about it, that somehow fawkes is connected with both Harry and LV [15:31] *** You_wont_know_who left #lounge [] [15:31] <Aislinn> it looks like voldemort is trying to ward off whatever it is [15:31] <Ringo2000> Voldemort wouldn't have any control over Fawkes, I think he may be roaming the world, but he will be always Dumbledore's loyal pet. [15:31] <fawkes28> with their wands [15:31] <Shard> Yeah Fawkes could be coming and Voldemort WOULD want to ward him away [15:31] <cloudpic> The wand cores I suppose? [15:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder too, ywkw... he does have a lot of influence, i feel, because of the feather... i think that fawkes has shown his loyalty, but we don't know a lot about phoenixes in general, and their "rules" or their priorities [15:32] <cloudpic> Odd that Fawkes' contribution to the wand lead the wand to "choose" Tom Riddle [15:32] <cloudpic> If it did [15:32] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps the phoenix song is all about love---and that might activate Harry's blood in LV [15:32] <MafaldaWeasley> maybe Fawkes can contorl the magic in a feather...just a thought [15:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ohh, interesting, mafalda [15:32] <Aislinn> I think Fawkes' feather in the wands is there to maintain the delicate balance between good and evil, chocolate [15:32] <cloudpic> Oh, that's an interesting idea, PP [15:32] <Ringo2000> I dont just think the wands will draw Fawkes back [15:32] <Puzzlepiece> part of me feels that after HBP Fawkes wont come back. JKR wont bring him back after the lament [15:32] <Ringo2000> there will be much deeper stuff in Book Seven. [15:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> or, what if Fawkes died, or passed on through the veil or something like that... i wonder if his feather would be useless in both Harry's and Voldemort's wands? [15:32] <cloudpic> I wondered that too, Puzzlepiece [15:33] <MafaldaWeasley> tx choco [15:33] <Aislinn> I'm quite sure we will see him again [15:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hence the wandlessness [15:33] <MrMcGonagall> Evidently Fawkes controls his tail feathers. He drops them readily as messages, yet they bear enormous weight as needed (carrying several up out of the Chamber). Two feathers serve as wand cores, what did Dumbledore do with others Fawkes dropped? [15:33] *** You_wont_know_who has joined #lounge [15:33] <Ringo2000> Hmm...Kept them? [15:33] <Aislinn> intriguing question [15:33] <MafaldaWeasley> if he did dropp more [15:33] <Shard> You mean they could be wand cores now? [15:33] <Ringo2000> Gave them to Ollivander? [15:33] <fawkes28> they certainly are powerful so i believe he would have hidden them somewhere [15:33] <Ringo2000> Maybe Ollivander was too scared to use them [15:33] <Puzzlepiece> intruiging [15:33] <Aislinn> i wonder if they have other uses [15:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, he acted as if fawkes "gave" the feathers, so i think that Fawkes has some say as to what feathers continue to be magical, maybe? [15:33] <fawkes28> i would hope he would be too scared [15:34] <Ringo2000> It is --its an interesting question [15:34] <ProngsPatronus> they would be rare--I wonder if Ollivander does have them [15:34] <cloudpic> He did as messages in Ootp... to warn about Umbridge's approach and it seemed like a common thing [15:34] <MafaldaWeasley> I don't think fwkes dropped some more. I think they are very rare [15:34] <Puzzlepiece> Fawkes only gave 2 to Ollivander we learn that in the first book [15:34] <Aislinn> right cloudpic [15:34] <Ringo2000> Ollivander may have been lying [15:34] <You_wont_know_who> yes they are rare [15:34] <fawkes28> that is interesting, Aislinn - what other uses could they have [15:34] <Aislinn> Dumbledore was the one who said that ringo [15:34] <Puzzlepiece> Ollivander had no reason to lie about that [15:34] <Aislinn> and he wouldnt' like [15:34] <Aislinn> lie [15:35] <Ringo2000> He did? [15:35] <JaneMarple9> well fawkes is quite attached to his feathers! [15:35] <cloudpic> Seemed odd to me that he'd drop a tail feather so casually as a communications device [15:35] <Ringo2000> Didnt he say [15:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> in the movie, it was ollivander [15:35] <You_wont_know_who> but he lost one as a warning [15:35] <fawkes28> maybe it gives strength to one that holds it [15:35] <JaneMarple9> can't see him giving many of them - he probably knew one was for LV wand and one for harry's wand [15:35] <Ringo2000> "The Phoenix that gave you that feather, gave one, just one other" [15:35] *** Spectre has joined #lounge [15:35] <Ringo2000> Hmm...Must be wrong? [15:35] <Aislinn> yes [15:35] <fawkes28> hi spectre [15:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's the movie smile [15:36] <Puzzlepiece> I think he only used them as communications because the Order was so desperate to do anything the ministry wouldnt know about. Otherwise I think he odesnt [15:36] <Ringo2000> hahaha I think it is [15:36] <Spectre> hi all [15:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehe [15:36] <cloudpic> Perhaps Dumbledore has a drawer filled with them? [15:36] <janieb> Are tail feathers more magical than other ones? [15:36] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:36] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:36] <JaneMarple9> hi spectre [15:36] <fawkes28> the prophecy involves harry and voldemort - it would not make sense to have more than 2 of Fawkes' feathers [15:36] <Aislinn> hey spectre [15:36] <Ringo2000> Can they be used for Potions? [15:36] <cloudpic> The tail feathers are golden... the others crimson [15:36] <ProngsPatronus> hey, spectre [15:36] <MafaldaWeasley> hello spectre [15:36] <You_wont_know_who> lol cloudpic [15:36] <Ringo2000> the feathers I mean [15:36] <MrMcGonagall> I've wondered that too, Ringo [15:36] <Puzzlepiece> interesting cloudpic [15:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but, the feathers were given way before the prophecy, before Voldemort even knew he was a wizard [15:36] <You_wont_know_who> and Dumbledore dealed with them, right? Impossible somehow [15:37] <cloudpic> True, chocolate [15:37] <Ringo2000> Yeah--It would be an interesting element, Maybe Snape could have some sort of supply? [15:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe one was given [15:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> initially [15:37] <Puzzlepiece> I doubt it. They are too powerful for potions [15:37] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:37] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:37] <cloudpic> Maybe that's why Dumbledore trusted Snape... because Fawkes did? [15:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and once Voldemort became evil, fawkes wanted to give another, to make up for the horror that the last wand caused [15:37] * Puzzlepiece is sad she has to leave so soon [15:37] <cloudpic> Fawkes can sense loyalty to Dumbledore, he said so. [15:37] <JaneMarple9> i can't see phoenix feathers being used in potions [15:37] <Shard> Ho do you know Phoenix fethaers are too powerful for Potions?? [15:37] <You_wont_know_who> maybe the phoenixes can predict the future [15:37] <JaneMarple9> too precious [15:37] <Puzzlepiece> bye all nice chatting [15:38] *** Puzzlepiece has quit [Bye] [15:38] <fawkes28> yes, we can, ywkw wink [15:38] <MafaldaWeasley> bye [15:38] <ProngsPatronus> bye, puzzle---glad you could join us [15:38] <MrMcGonagall> The description of House-Elves includes mention of "enormous eyes" and "large bat-like ears." What does this suggest about their natural abilities? Why would these features be useful to a House Elf? And what about to Dobby or Kreacher in particular? [15:38] <You_wont_know_who> bye Puzzle [15:38] <Aislinn> I think the 2 wands were made around the same time chocolate [15:38] <MafaldaWeasley> well, they listen a lot, don't they? [15:38] <Shard> Well they need to be able to see well to clean well [15:38] <Kneazly> All the better to hear you with and all the better to see you with [15:38] <ProngsPatronus> it suggests a creature who lives in low light to me [15:38] <Shard> and hear when their masters are calling [15:38] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:38] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:39] <You_wont_know_who> elves must listen and hear everything [15:39] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> seeing around in the dark... i like to feel like, since they're not wizards, or even humans, that maybe they can SEE magic? Just like we can't see ultraviolet light, maybe they can see the effects of magic, or see how things have been affected by magic? [15:39] <Ringo2000> well there not highly flattering features..so maybe thats why they are there...too show the squalor and poor conditions they live in? [15:39] <cloudpic> Might they be able to see and hear things wizards cannot? [15:39] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps even a cave dweller [15:39] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's a sign that they're very observant creatures. they see and hear much. [15:39] <fawkes28> i think it shows that they know a lot more than they let on [15:39] <Kneazly> Neat idea, Choc [15:39] <You_wont_know_who> and have a good eyesight in order not to burn the dinner [15:39] <fawkes28> and it also shows us not to underestimate them like so many people do [15:39] <cloudpic> Makes for good spying too [15:39] <MafaldaWeasley> bats can hehar anything cause they are almost blind [15:39] <MafaldaWeasley> hear [15:39] <cloudpic> Eavesdropping and peeping [15:40] <MrMcGonagall> Exactly, cloudpic [15:40] <MafaldaWeasley> haha yes cp [15:40] <Spectre> see magic... maybe that's why they can, for instance, apparate in Hogwarts? Because they see the magical blocks and can easily bypass them? [15:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if you believe the 'kreacher/regulus' in the cave idea, it'd be a lot easier to have a house elf to help in that job, if they can see where magic has been performed? Kreacher might have been able to spot the invisible boat, or know wher ethe magic had been done [15:40] <cloudpic> useful skills for slaves., sadly [15:40] <You_wont_know_who> oh spying, right [15:40] <Ringo2000> Hmm...maybe Jo gave them this feature because there not highly flattering...It could be showing some significance to the poor work conditions? [15:40] <cloudpic> Might could be, chocolate [15:40] <JaneMarple9> yes the regulus/kreacher in the boat could be possible [15:40] <MafaldaWeasley> maybe they can apparate into Hogwarts cause they are not considered a risk or they are considered inferiors but the magical world but a few. [15:41] <ProngsPatronus> could be, ringo [15:41] <MrMcGonagall> House-Elves have their own powerful wandless magic. In CoS, "Dobby succeeds in knocking Lucius Malfoy down the stairs when Lucius tries to harm Harry. When Lucius pulls out his wand, Dobby raises a finger and says, 'You shall go now. You shall not touch Harry Potter. You shall go now.' Though a powerful DE, Malfoy backs down." What do you make of this? [15:41] <Aislinn> that's an interesting thought spectre [15:41] <You_wont_know_who> oh apparating in Hogwarts is something different I suppose [15:41] <You_wont_know_who> it is connected with their duties [15:41] <Ringo2000> Well [15:41] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:41] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:41] <fawkes28> i love this because it shows us that Magical Creatures should not be underestimated [15:41] <Ringo2000> Your ex-servant telling you too go away must be powerful [15:41] <ProngsPatronus> I loved that scene---and it leads me to believe that an elf with a wand would be powerful, indeed [15:42] <Shard> Iy seems like House Elves could really kick some Wizard butt if they wanted to [15:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> It makes me realize that House Elves have a strong magic that binds them to their post, if Dobby can so powerfully rebel after he is free. If he had been able to do that when he was bound to the family, then he wouldn't have been bound to them for long! [15:42] <You_wont_know_who> Dobby is a powerful creature and can harm if he wants to [15:42] <cloudpic> That really floored me... this little creature who'd been so abused was able to suddenly intimidate his former Master [15:42] <Aislinn> I think it is an important foreshadowing for the next book [15:42] <fawkes28> it is interesting how powerful he was after he was released from the Malfoy's - a houself who is free is a lot more powerful than one who is enslaved [15:42] <ProngsPatronus> and it was nice to see Lucius kicked to the curb [15:42] <Ringo2000> Well Dobby kept it in the dark for along time [15:42] <cloudpic> Even though they're smaller... they clearly scared the wizards as much as the Giants did. [15:43] <Ringo2000> next minute he unleashed this power...whoah eek_yello [15:43] <You_wont_know_who> elves don't need a wand to be powerful, they need will [15:43] <cloudpic> Yes, very satisfying, Prongs! [15:43] <Kneazly> I think he always had the power, it was just a choice whether to use it or not--whether the other strictures on it were powerful enough [15:43] <fawkes28> it is interesting how he was protecting Harry too - we may see powerful magic yet again if Harry is threatened [15:43] <ProngsPatronus> which is a theme that runs thoughout the books, fawkes [15:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the magic of "ownership" of a person seems to be strong... if House Elves have so much power that they can't use, when they don't have control over themselves [15:43] <Aislinn> it's probably partly why they are kept enslaved with enchantments that control them - the fear that wizards have of their natural powers [15:43] <Ringo2000> Agreed, Kneazly [15:43] *** You_wont_know_who has quit [Bye] [15:43] *** You_wont_know_who has joined #lounge [15:43] <cloudpic> Makes you wonder if that whole bondage were a not so much the HouseElves nature as some huge brainwashing thing [15:43] <ProngsPatronus> wizards seem to be afraid of non-humans, in general [15:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder, too, cloudpic [15:43] <cloudpic> I agree, Aislinn [15:44] <Aislinn> I think it is a magical enchantment, cloudpic [15:44] <fawkes28> that is an interesting thought, cloudpic [15:44] <cloudpic> Like the memory spells [15:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> humans are pretty nasty creatures... if they can't beat something physically, they'll beat it mentally [15:44] <cloudpic> I hope Hermione figures it out... [15:44] <fawkes28> dobby also fails to help harry when he is enslaved but when he is free - watch out [15:44] <Aislinn> she would be the most likely, cloudpic [15:44] <cloudpic> A survival instinct which ought to be mastered by ethics [15:44] <Ringo2000> lol Fawkes laugh [15:44] <MrMcGonagall> With the exceptional abilities of House-Elves, they could be a great asset in the war against the Dark Lord. Fawkes28 wonders if Prof. McGonagall continues as headmistress, might she organize the Hogwarts Elves into a "formidable defense of Hogwarts"? [15:44] <Kneazly> Yet houseelves on the whole seem happy to subjugate themselves--perhaps the Hogwarts elves have power they choose not to use [15:44] <You_wont_know_who> wizards don't understand the magical creatures, at least most of them. Hagrid is different, and maybe Dumbledore was different tooo [15:45] <Spectre> Makes me wonder if the wizards kidnapped some young elves, taught them in their own way and then used their power to eliminate the free elf population... [15:45] <Aislinn> i think the house-elves at the school would be a wonderful defense [15:45] <ProngsPatronus> I think Dobby may come to her with that very idea [15:45] <cloudpic> Possible, Spectre [15:45] <Aislinn> there are a lot of them, and they are very loyal [15:45] <Ringo2000> LOL! I would love to see that - it would be like Attack of the Clones - Elf Style laugh [15:45] <MafaldaWeasley> I think Dobby is one of a kind. I don't think that the house elves have in their nature to fight [15:45] <You_wont_know_who> elves would defend the school better than anybody [15:45] <cloudpic> Wouldn't they have to follow the orders of whomever is in charge at Hogwarts... so it'd be like a duty sort of? [15:45] <fawkes28> siriusly, mcgonagall has a lot of power - if she gives them permission to fight - voldemort better be scared [15:46] <Kneazly> I can see the Hogwarts elves fighting to protect Hogwarts [15:46] <You_wont_know_who> if they are told to do so they will fight [15:46] <Ringo2000> I think they could..It would be really cool to see a gang of elves taking the DE's down. [15:46] <ProngsPatronus> I can, too, YWKW [15:46] <Spectre> it's their house, after all. House elves have strong bonds with their house [15:46] <cloudpic> I'm not sure it'd be McGonagall's idea... but we have seen that Hermione and Minerva talk a lot "off stage" [15:46] <MafaldaWeasley> they may fight but it would be last resorce. I can see them protecting the younger ones, but I find hard to see them fighting [15:46] <MrMcGonagall> Very true, Spectre [15:46] <Ringo2000> Probably my favourite chapter ever...if that happened. [15:46] <You_wont_know_who> woot Prongs!!! [15:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it seems like, on the grounds, the elves would have far superior advantage... they could disappear as spells come at them, and probably even capture people inside of magical bubbles, or freeze them even better than patrificus totalus [15:46] <cloudpic> Protecting Hogwarts would make a lot of sense... since their loyalty is often to a place [15:47] <cloudpic> And they know the place thoroughly [15:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder if dumbledore gave them any orders? [15:47] <ProngsPatronus> they also know Hogwarts better than anyone [15:47] <Kneazly> I think it's possible. Kreacher certainly tries to keep GP as much as it was before as he can [15:47] <Ringo2000> fawkes28 --thats an amazing thought! [15:47] <cloudpic> They'd make great "look-outs" [15:47] <Spectre> especially now that many Dumbledore's defensive spells are down... [15:47] *** girlvsboy has joined #lounge [15:47] <Ringo2000> you have got that in my head now biggrin [15:47] <Aislinn> hi girlvsboy [15:47] <girlvsboy> hey smile [15:47] <MrMcGonagall> Since Kreacher is bound to obey Harry, and Dobby's fierce loyalty to Harry spurs him to do whatever Harry might ask, how might they aid Harry personally in the next war? Are they still following Draco? How might that prove helpful? [15:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but, some defensive spells aren't always gone by death, spectre... like the spells on the egyptian tombs [15:47] <Ringo2000> it's a great visual [15:47] <ProngsPatronus> hey, girlvsboy [15:47] <girlvsboy> hello [15:48] <girlvsboy> does anyone know about this OoTP in Chicago with the Phelps twins? [15:48] <fawkes28> they are definitely still following draco [15:48] *** You_wont_know_who left #lounge [] [15:48] <girlvsboy> premiere* [15:48] <Ringo2000> I think [15:48] <ProngsPatronus> well Harry never told them to quit--so I think they are still following Draco [15:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha, i never thought of them following draco until the Uber Predictions Quiz [15:48] <Ringo2000> Possibly, that one will go to follow Draco the other will acompony Harry [15:48] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:48] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:48] <fawkes28> girlvsboy, we are chatting about Magical Creatures smile [15:48] <cloudpic> I'm seriously sure that they're still following Draco... but that perhaps Kreacher may be a problem there [15:48] <Kneazly> Them keeping onto Draco hadn't occurred to me either, but it seems really probable [15:49] <Ringo2000> If what it looks like from the DH Covers, it maybe Kreacher helping Harry... [15:49] <Aislinn> they hadn't been told not to, so it makes sense they would continue to follow him [15:49] <cloudpic> Or Dobby [15:49] <Ringo2000> I could see that happening, He could think that Kreacher would be lest trusted [15:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> what was the last thng Harry told them? that they were allowed to sleep, not to stop tailing him, right? [15:49] <Spectre> Would Kreacher take any orders from Draco if Draco tries to give him any? [15:49] <Aislinn> right chocolate [15:49] <fawkes28> yes, dobby follows his orders very literally [15:49] <ProngsPatronus> not any that counter Harry's [15:49] *** girlvsboy has quit [Bye] [15:49] <Ringo2000> unlike Kreacher [15:49] <Ringo2000> who would have told Draco [15:50] <cloudpic> Good question... Kreacher wouldn't do what Tonks ordered because she was off the tapestry [15:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Kreacher isn't allowed to talk to Draco or anything [15:50] <Ringo2000> so maybe Kreacher would be made to stick with Harry? [15:50] <cloudpic> ahhh [15:50] <Ringo2000> and Dobby follow Draco--it could be logic? [15:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Kreacher was forbidden to associate [15:50] <Ringo2000> Knowing creature [15:50] <fawkes28> i still don't trust kreacher but lucky dobby is there to keep him in line [15:50] <Ringo2000> Kreacher** [15:50] <cloudpic> Still, what an advantage to use HouseElves as spies for the Order [15:50] <Ringo2000> it would [15:50] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast thinks that ghosts would be a better choice [15:51] <cloudpic> I can see Kreacher running to Bella if he can [15:51] <Ringo2000> fawkes - thats a really funny thought about the elf army [15:51] <Spectre> but can they leave their house for a prolonged amount of time? [15:51] <Ringo2000> nice thinking biggrin [15:51] <Kneazly> It would be an advantage, but unless they're like Dobby, not many DE house elves would cooperate [15:51] <fawkes28> thanks, ringo smile [15:51] <MafaldaWeasley> I think houseelves can also be detected, don't they? [15:51] <Ringo2000> I think McGonagall would keep tabs [15:51] <MrMcGonagall> Commenting on Fawkes28's chapter, Prongs Patronus wondered, "Don't you find it interesting that Harry has direct connections with almost all of the major branches of creatures we've encountered? … all that is missing is a goblin. Do you think …a goblin might make the acquaintance of Harry" in Book 7? How might all these personal contacts help? [15:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> their magic can be, by the ministry [15:52] <ProngsPatronus> I think that, as long as they are in the service of a member of the house, they can do things outside the house [15:52] <fawkes28> prongs is so smart smile [15:52] <MafaldaWeasley> yeah, so Lv can also get them, but I'm sure he would understemate them [15:52] <Ringo2000> Goblins wont go with LV [15:52] <Aislinn> I think the goblins are definitely going to come into play in DH [15:52] <cloudpic> Harry sure has "met" an individual from so many groups... but goblins, no yet [15:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Goblins, to me, would go with finances. [15:52] <fawkes28> yes, i think the goblins will play an important role in this final book [15:52] <Ringo2000> Goblins wouldnt stand for it. Probably lock him in 713. [15:52] <ProngsPatronus> no--a DE tried to break into Gringott's--and goblins have long memories [15:52] <Kneazly> I think goblins are the ultimate in self-interested creatures--only join with one side or the other if they see a clear advantage. [15:52] <cloudpic> What was the name of that goblin who was mentioned several times?? [15:52] <MafaldaWeasley> I think Goblins are more like the centaurs, they just don't like to get involved [15:52] <Ringo2000> Griphook [15:52] * cloudpic wishes her memory were better [15:53] <cloudpic> Thank you, Ringo! [15:53] <fawkes28> they have been mentioned so many times in the books and in the wombats - the goblins will get their day [15:53] <Ringo2000> No Problem smile [15:53] <Ringo2000> lol fawkes [15:53] <ProngsPatronus> goblins had numerous wars with the wizards--so they are not averse to fighting [15:53] <cloudpic> Some think the creature on Harry's back on the cover is a goblin [15:53] <MafaldaWeasley> I think they'll go after Harry once he break into a vault [15:53] <Spectre> a pitched battle inside Gringotts? smile [15:53] * fawkes28 raises hand [15:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yes, hermione has made it clear that goblins can definitely defend themselves [15:53] <Ringo2000> I think thats Kreacher.. [15:54] <cloudpic> A battle in the underworld isn't unprecidented [15:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha mafalda... that's all harry needs... someone else after him [15:54] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think Harry will have to break into anything in gringott's [15:54] <Ringo2000> I think that is Gringotts [15:54] <Ringo2000> Not sure how they will get in [15:54] <cloudpic> Me too, Ringo [15:54] <Ringo2000> biggrin [15:54] <fawkes28> goblins lost people in the last war with voldemort - they arent going to forget that [15:54] <ProngsPatronus> the DE's injured a member of their staff, too [15:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think there might be an association to a goblin through Bill, but I don't know if Harry will have enough time to become chummy with one [15:54] <Ringo2000> I would like to see Bill and the Golbins help [15:54] <Spectre> Goblins now have another dent on the DEs - they mutilated their employee [15:54] <ProngsPatronus> Bill [15:55] <Ringo2000> hmm..Bill could help [15:55] <ProngsPatronus> I think the goblins would not like that [15:55] <fawkes28> that is one of the strongest reasons they may fight on harry's side [15:55] <cloudpic> Bill would be a connection to the goblins, true [15:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> dang... that was a lot of Bill at once [15:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [15:55] <cloudpic> LOL [15:55] <Ringo2000> lol [15:55] <ProngsPatronus> great minds... [15:55] <MrMcGonagall> Even Hagrid warns, "Never mess with Goblins, Harry." How valuable would their support be in the battle against Voldemort? What good could they do against Voldie? What harm would they do in his service? [15:55] <Ringo2000> think alike [15:55] <Kneazly> I'm not sure I think the goblins will actively side with either Harry's side or LV, but will do something important in a self-interested way [15:56] <Spectre> we've never seen goblins doing magic, have we? [15:56] <ProngsPatronus> well, they could freeze the assets of all De's, for starters [15:56] <Ringo2000> oh well Goblins we don't no much about [15:56] <cloudpic> Having control over the vaults and the money would be a start [15:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> they have protection on their vaults, spectre [15:56] <fawkes28> very valuable - they are powerful creatures - and they are not allowed to have wands - imagine how much more powerful they would be if they could have one [15:56] <JaneMarple9> goblins know all about treasure [15:56] <Ringo2000> JKR needs to release some back story on Goblins... [15:56] <ProngsPatronus> and how to find it, too, I bet [15:56] <Ringo2000> we could get a better Idea then [15:56] <JaneMarple9> they probably hear a lot in Gringotts [15:56] <Ringo2000> They probably do [15:56] <JaneMarple9> oh yes PP definatly [15:56] <Ringo2000> Maybe a little too much? [15:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> goblins might have a lot of knowledge about a certain goblet of Hufflepuff's... or some magical treasure locations [15:56] <Kneazly> I'd better go, bye all! [15:56] <cloudpic> I wish someone besides Hermione had paid attention in Binns classes on goblin rebellions [15:56] <Ringo2000> Byeeee! [15:57] <fawkes28> bye Kneazly [15:57] <Aislinn> I think that Harry is going to rally all the creatures to his cause, including the goblins, and they will be quite valuable [15:57] *** Kneazly left #lounge [] [15:57] <cloudpic> bye, Kneazly [15:57] <Spectre> would Voldy actually hide a Horcrux in Gringotts? [15:57] <Ringo2000> Hahaha! laugh Cloudpic! [15:57] <ProngsPatronus> bye, KNeazly [15:57] <JaneMarple9> goblins are assosiated with the undeground i think? [15:57] <Spectre> in one of the vaults [15:57] <Ringo2000> I wonder if the Lexicon has anything on the matter? [15:57] <Aislinn> i think so spectre [15:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't think so, spectre [15:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :) [15:57] <Aislinn> hehehe [15:57] <cloudpic> They control those tunnels under Gringots, Jane [15:57] <ProngsPatronus> no--but GG may have had a vault [15:57] <cloudpic> and Syltherin too [15:57] <fawkes28> i think the goblins know more than people think - i'd bet they do a good deal of listening in gringotts and people talk when they think no one is listening [15:57] <Ringo2000> Can I link the lexicon? [15:58] <JaneMarple9> and lord voldie too [15:58] <cloudpic> and Lord Voldemort [15:58] <JaneMarple9> and hufflepuff [15:58] <MafaldaWeasley> I had break into one vault once, Spectre, I don't see any reason for him not to do it, but I think he wouldn't put some in there [15:58] <fawkes28> yes, ringo [15:58] <Ringo2000> http://www.hp-lexicon.org/bestiary/goblins.html [15:58] <ProngsPatronus> I agree totally, fawkes [15:58] <JaneMarple9> everybody has a vault! [15:58] <Ringo2000> ALOT of good stuff in there! It tells you alot [15:58] <MrMcGonagall> Lupin suspects Goblin support would depend "on what they are offered . . .And I'm not talking about gold; if they're offered freedoms we've been denying them for centuries they're going to be tempted." How likely is it that the Ministry will make such an offer? Might the Dark Lord beat them to it? [15:58] <fawkes28> yes, it does, ringo - thanks [15:58] <cloudpic> But it's rather like the Swiss... they may feel they should remain neutral for their own safety [15:58] <Spectre> "Yes, I admit it's my vault" lol smile [15:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i have a feeling that Voldemort, if he does control money, doesn't leave it up to Goblins to control [15:59] <Aislinn> I don't think it likely at all [15:59] <cloudpic> Yes, again what's important is respect [15:59] <Ringo2000> Hm... [15:59] <fawkes28> oh, i doubt the ministry will but the Order could [15:59] <Ringo2000> Thats a good question [15:59] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think LV will approach the goblins, but try to overawe/frighten them into helping him [15:59] <Ringo2000> But could Lord Voldemort pursuade the Goblins? [15:59] <Ringo2000> there a vital part of the Wizarding Community [15:59] <ProngsPatronus> which will backfire spectacularly [15:59] <fawkes28> the Order doesn't care much about the Ministry - they are going to take this war into their own hands [15:59] <cloudpic> The Ministry has been stupid...over and over [15:59] <JaneMarple9> i think he could [15:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Yes, its about the money. LV could promise them wands... with his newfound wandmaker Ollivander? [15:59] <JaneMarple9> bribe them with even more gold? [15:59] <Ringo2000> Nice Idea chocolate [15:59] <MrMcGonagall> ooooh, that's interesting, choco. [16:00] <Ringo2000> He could Jane! [16:00] <cloudpic> Didn't Voldemort kill goblins in the last "war"? [16:00] <Spectre> Voldemort may promise them power [16:00] <fawkes28> i dont think the goblins will listen to voldemort - he murdered goblins in the last war [16:00] <ProngsPatronus> Lv killed goblins in the last war, I believe--I don't think they would go over to his side [16:00] <ProngsPatronus> snap! [16:00] <cloudpic> Lupin says it's not the gold, though, Jane... but freedom they'd want [16:00] <JaneMarple9> i think they'd like wands too [16:00] <fawkes28> i dont think they will ever trust him - no matter what they are promised [16:00] <fawkes28> yes, jane [16:00] <cloudpic> Yes, you're right, Jane... that would imply that they were equals [16:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but lupin says it's still possible.... why would goblins contine to go for a side that would never give them wands? if Voldie promised them wands, i think it could be big [16:00] <Ringo2000> But could he really offer such freedom? [16:00] <Ringo2000> Gringotts is like there living [16:00] <JaneMarple9> they seem very intelligent creatures [16:01] *** readthroughthenight has joined #lounge [16:01] <ProngsPatronus> I think most of the human-like creatures want wandas [16:01] <Ringo2000> I doubt he could draw them away like that [16:01] <ProngsPatronus> hey, read [16:01] <fawkes28> any member of the Order can give them a wand if they want one [16:01] * cloudpic knows she does [16:01] * cloudpic want a wand [16:01] <Aislinn> lol [16:01] <Ringo2000> lol [16:01] * fawkes28 gives cloudpic a wand [16:01] <JaneMarple9> I don't think they are "tied" to gringotts like house-elves [16:01] <MrMcGonagall> Even though Goblins are highly intelligent beings trusted to run Gringotts and its highly regarded security vaults, they're treated as second-class citizens and denied equal rights in the Wizarding World. Isn't that trust/ lack of trust contradictory? [16:01] <Ringo2000> Point, Jane [16:01] * JaneMarple9 wants a house elf...but not Kreacher! [16:01] <Aislinn> no, I think it is actually the thing that gives them a sense of worth and some level of freedom [16:02] * Ringo2000 agrees with Jane! [16:02] <Aislinn> since they control the financial world [16:02] <ProngsPatronus> it is the same old stuff from the Ministry [16:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think so too, aislinn [16:02] <cloudpic> LOL.... now we're all in trouble! Yeah... that really puzzles me... why trust your money to creatures you don't turst? [16:02] <ProngsPatronus> use and abuse [16:02] <Ringo2000> It is trust, MrMcG! [16:02] <MafaldaWeasley> yes Aislinn, and I think they don't really care abbout being equal, as long as they have the power of money..hahaha, imagine if they decide not to receive or make payments anymore [16:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> perhaps, like house elves, they don't really want respect, or to be treated as high class citizens [16:02] <Aislinn> it is quite contradictory, but as Hermione tells us way back in the first book, wizards are not known for their logic [16:03] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [16:03] <Spectre> do they actually care about their social status? [16:03] <fawkes28> that is a good question - i guess people think the goblins aren't going to do anything with the money [16:03] <Ringo2000> The Worlds money lies in there hands, its a very serious position, and I think Goblins are better of doing it--if a wizard done so, they would more than likely steal the gold. [16:03] <fawkes28> hi Love4Fawkes [16:03] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps goblins do not sepend on the opinions of wizardkind for their own self-worth [16:03] <Love4Fawkes> Hi! [16:03] *** girlvsboy has joined #lounge [16:03] <Aislinn> right prongs [16:03] <MafaldaWeasley> yes PP [16:03] <ProngsPatronus> *depend [16:03] <Spectre> hi Love4Fawkes [16:03] <fawkes28> maybe that is why they do not give them wands - because they are in charge of a great deal of money [16:03] *** readthroughthenight has quit [Bye] [16:03] <Ringo2000> Hey Love4Fawkes This post has been edited by fawkes28: May 27 2007, 04:20 PM |
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May 27 2007, 04:10 PM
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Organizing the Halo Rebellion Posts: 3,301 Joined: 2:09pm April 16, 2006 Location: Being angelic, of course |
[16:04] <ProngsPatronus> I think wizards are afraid of them
[16:04] <Ringo2000> True, fawkes [16:04] *** readthroughthenight has joined #lounge [16:04] <Ringo2000> Maybe they could be attempted to sneak a galleon (or two) in there pockets? [16:04] <ProngsPatronus> and it is this fear which drives their stand on goblins, not logic [16:04] <Ringo2000> tempted** [16:04] <JaneMarple9> they could ringo [16:04] <Ringo2000> sorry for my apalling grammar smile [16:04] <fawkes28> i wonder why they do not have wizards in charge [16:05] <Ringo2000> Probably they would steal it [16:05] <JaneMarple9> very tempting to spend so much time around money [16:05] <fawkes28> it really doesnt make any sense [16:05] *** girlvsboy has quit [Bye] [16:05] <Ringo2000> I would be tempted... [16:05] <Ringo2000>  [16:05] <JaneMarple9> none trustworthly enough Fawkes! [16:05] <MrMcGonagall> Snapesgood, commenting on Fawkes28's chapter, wondered if some connection between Prof. Flitwick and the Goblins might encourage them to at least support the Order (perhaps in secret?). This is another possible explanation of the cryptic hint that "Ravenclaw will have its day." Will Flitwick be the next emissary sent to persuade a potential ally? [16:05] <ProngsPatronus> which says a lot about humans in general, doesn't it? [16:05] * JaneMarple9 imagines Mundungus in charge of Gringotts! laugh [16:05] <Aislinn> ooh, it's an interesting theory [16:05] <Spectre> It depends on how goblins treat the half-breeds. [16:05] * Ringo2000 laughs with Jane! [16:06] <Love4Fawkes> it is an interesting theory [16:06] *** girlvsboy has joined #lounge [16:06] <fawkes28> hmmm, i have never seen flitwick having a major role but it is an interesting theory [16:06] <JaneMarple9> not flitwick no [16:06] <MafaldaWeasley> If Flitwick is actually good...if Flitwick get interested on doing such a job. [16:06] <ProngsPatronus> now that is an interesting thought [16:06] <JaneMarple9> but he is a goblin [16:06] <JaneMarple9> and he was a duelling champion [16:06] <Love4Fawkes> Flitwick has goblin blood [16:06] <Ringo2000> I think like Lupin as been undercover doing work with Werewolves it might essential at such a critical time. [16:06] *** Potter_fan has joined #lounge [16:06] <Ringo2000> has** [16:06] *** janieb has quit [Bye] [16:06] <Ringo2000> sorry I'm pretty bad tonight smile [16:07] <JaneMarple9> everybody hoped he'd be doing the duelling club in CoS - instead we got Lockhart! [16:07] <Ringo2000> lol [16:07] <Ringo2000> I was hoping too... [16:07] *** girlvsboy has quit [Bye] [16:07] <Ringo2000> and Snape aswell lol [16:07] <Spectre> Lockhart the next emissary to Goblins... that would be some sight biggrin [16:07] <JaneMarple9> who'd forget him! [16:07] <Love4Fawkes> lol [16:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the flitwick/snape dynamic isn't as great as lockhart/snape [16:07] <ProngsPatronus> I think Flitwick has something to prove [16:07] <Ringo2000> Hmm...Being good at dueling - hey could this suggest the Goblins being good at magic? [16:08] <Ringo2000> Since Flitwick is half-goblin [16:08] <Ringo2000> sorry [16:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> they're probably good at confrontational magic... all those rebellions and "attacking" type magic [16:08] <JaneMarple9> flitwick was hurt by snape - snape attacked him when he left hogwarts didn't he? [16:08] <Ringo2000> I mean...has Goblim Blood... [16:08] <Love4Fawkes> i'm not sure about that ringo. Flitwick has goblin blood in him, but he's not full goblin [16:08] <ProngsPatronus> yes, Jane, exactly [16:08] <Ringo2000> Yeah, I dont think he had time to defend himself [16:08] <Ringo2000> Even DD couldnt in the Dept. of Mysteries... [16:08] <JaneMarple9> so he's a gobard (cross between a goblin and wizard!) [16:08] <ProngsPatronus> still, for a duelling champion, that has to sting [16:08] <Love4Fawkes> lol [16:08] <Ringo2000> LOL [16:09] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast shakes her head at jane [16:09] * Ringo2000 laughs -- thats hillarious laugh [16:09] <MrMcGonagall> Although clearly as intelligent as others in the category, Centaurs asked to be "classified as beasts rather than as beings. They didn't want to share "being" status with certain others. What other prejudiced or snobbish behavior have we witnessed on the part of centaurs? [16:09] <Ringo2000> snobbish [16:09] <JaneMarple9> they don't trust the wizards [16:09] <Spectre> The attitude towards Divination [16:09] <Aislinn> they are amazingly prideful [16:09] <fawkes28> they do not like being treated like mules [16:10] <JaneMarple9> except dumbledore...and possibily hagrid [16:10] <fawkes28> and carrying humans on their backs [16:10] <JaneMarple9> they believe they are better than humans...which, they are, in someway [16:10] <Aislinn> I would not have warm feelings towards the ministry, either, given the fact that they are thought of as "near humans" [16:10] <Ringo2000> I think they do have moments when they are think they are above Humans... [16:10] <Love4Fawkes> in Ootp the centaur (was it bane?) kept telling the class that humans would understand how centaurs See [16:10] <JaneMarple9> they are very interested in the planets [16:10] <Aislinn> I can see why they would think that highly insulting [16:10] *** MafaldaWeasley left #lounge [] [16:10] <JaneMarple9> that was firenze smile [16:11] <Spectre> Firenze was a Hogwarts professor... is he still, by the way? [16:11] <Ringo2000> He is [16:11] <JaneMarple9> he was in book 6 [16:11] <Ringo2000> He is doing shared lessons with Trelawney [16:11] <Love4Fawkes> yes aislinn, i can certainly see why centaurs in particular would find that insulting [16:11] <Ringo2000> but nothing conifrmed for Book Seven [16:11] *** readthroughthenight has quit [Bye] [16:11] <JaneMarple9> lavendar was disappointed that she had him instead of trelawney i think [16:11] <Love4Fawkes> oh right Firenze, sorry lost my mind for a second [16:11] <Ringo2000> Yeah [16:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think centaurs are on the opposite, but same spectrum of elves and goblins... not wanting to be part of wizard society. only, they want to be seen as above it, not below it [16:12] <fawkes28> they choose to not be a part of it [16:12] <Love4Fawkes> Firenze can't go back into the forest so if Hogwarts is open I imagine he'll be there [16:12] <fawkes28> because they have so much pride [16:12] <Ringo2000> Agreed, chocolateisnot! [16:12] *** Shard has quit [Bye] [16:12] <Ringo2000> They really do shine through [16:12] <Love4Fawkes> i agree chocolate and fawkes [16:12] <Ringo2000> They want to be/and are a large part of the society [16:12] <MrMcGonagall> The centaurs' skills in archery, magical healing and perhaps even divination might be helpful in the struggle against Lord Voldemort. How likely is their involvement? They seem most aggressive when shown disrespect. Might they mount their own offense against whichever side they perceive as worst? [16:13] <ProngsPatronus> I think their attitude is a parody of the purebloodists [16:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I doubt they'll become involved [16:13] <Ringo2000> I think they may remain Neutral [16:13] <cloudpic> Well, Voldie isn't known for his respectful approach, though [16:13] <Love4Fawkes> They don't believe it is there place to take sides or become involved [16:13] <JaneMarple9> i don't think they would [16:13] <fawkes28> i think they will become involved because i think we will see the forest again - and if they feel threatened, they will attack [16:13] <JaneMarple9> but firenze might [16:13] <Love4Fawkes> but maybe humans should listen to a little of what they have to say. As of now they have been dead on every time [16:14] <fawkes28> at the very least firenze will join harry's side because he is loyal to him [16:14] <JaneMarple9> because i can't see him returning to the forest [16:14] <cloudpic> Defending the forest... and maybe the "young" in Hogwarts [16:14] <ProngsPatronus> I think that they will defend the Forbidden Forest against all comeers [16:14] <Potter_fan> well - maybe the centaurs do see more than humans so they are impatient in humans who try to see the future compared to centaur skills? [16:14] <Love4Fawkes> i think you are right Potter_fan [16:14] <JaneMarple9> nice idea cloud [16:14] <Aislinn> it doesn't seem likely they will help, unless it is to protect the grounds of Hogwarts and the forest in which they dwell [16:14] <cloudpic> They've seen Voldie doing violence to unicorns in the forest [16:14] <Spectre> For some reason, Dwarves from Narnia book "The Last Battle" come to mind - "Dwarves are for Dwarves". I think the centaurs would take a similar approach... [16:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if LV understands them better than the ministry, he would know what to promise them, how to speak with them... making sure that he knows that they don't need him to get what they want, but that he needs them. That's why i can't see it happening... they don't have anything that Voldie can offer, because they are capable and would be unhappy relying on a human, anyway [16:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and because voldie doesn't rely on anybody to get what he wants [16:15] <cloudpic> I hope the centaurs have long memories then [16:15] <ProngsPatronus> I think LV is too arrogant to give them any consideration at all [16:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> right [16:16] <Potter_fan> if the fight comes into the forest, maybe it will become personal enough for centaurs to fight - the forest is their home [16:16] <fawkes28> they wouldnt want to join him anyway [16:16] <cloudpic> Why introduce the characters then? [16:16] <Love4Fawkes> i doubt very many people even knew there were centaurs out in the forest until one came to teach at Hogwarts [16:16] <ProngsPatronus> he embodies a distillation of all that is wrong with the WW [16:16] <fawkes28> they like being by themselves [16:16] <Spectre> A plot device to get rid of Umbridge biggrin [16:16] <Ringo2000> sorry guys just had to pop out then--what is the current question? [16:16] <cloudpic> LOL... Spectre [16:16] <Love4Fawkes> that's what I keep thinking cloudpic. we have to see them again in book 7 [16:16] <MrMcGonagall> Firenze, the centaur who saved Harry's life in the Forbidden Forest, is now teaching at Hogwarts. Although ostracized by the centaur community, he made a choice to aid Dumbledore. Would the link to Hogwarts through Firenze or the perhaps grudging respect shown to Dumbledore at his funeral indicate that at least Harry might seek aid from centaurs? [16:17] <Love4Fawkes> I was just about to say before the question popped up that Harry might seek advice or knowledge from the centaurs [16:17] <Ringo2000> hmm [16:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think centaurs have been used a lot already, and haven't been pointless [16:17] <cloudpic> I was really surprised to see that centaur salute at the funeral [16:17] <ProngsPatronus> I think Harry--or hagrid, maty do just that [16:17] <ProngsPatronus> *may [16:17] <Ringo2000> Im not sure [16:17] <fawkes28> i dont think harry will go after them directly - but i think firenze may try [16:18] <Ringo2000> Yeah, True fawkes [16:18] <cloudpic> I wonder what insight they have that could help... centaurs I mean [16:18] <Love4Fawkes> that would be interesting fawkes given firenzes status in the forest right now [16:18] <Spectre> and fail miserably, like Hagrid with giants... [16:18] <ProngsPatronus> they promised him death if he came back to the forest [16:18] <fawkes28> i wasnt too surprised because dumbledore had earned a lot of people and creature's respect [16:18] <Ringo2000> I doubt Harry will ask information from a centaur, but i would like to see the outcome,. [16:18] <Aislinn> they are aware of Harry's role in the grand scheme of things - I wonder if there are others besides Firenze who care about the outcome enough to pick a side [16:18] <Love4Fawkes> they have the knowledge of the future [16:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, i see the full moon on the back cover of the UK version, and a burnt forest... I think the centaurs might have been attacked, but the full moon might have been a warning [16:18] <cloudpic> I wonder how the others would react if Firenze were killed? [16:19] <JaneMarple9> yes the centaurs did pay respect in book 6 [16:19] <ProngsPatronus> avert! [16:19] *** janieb has joined #lounge [16:19] <ProngsPatronus> well, I have to wonder at Bane [16:19] <Spectre> Firenze should go with Grawp biggrin [16:19] <Ringo2000> lol [16:19] <Love4Fawkes> i'll have to check out the cover again chocolate. i don't think i thought of the forest as burnt. . . [16:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that sounds like a saturday morning cartoon, spectre lol [16:19] *** immaHPfreak has joined #lounge [16:19] <Ringo2000> me neithe [16:19] <ProngsPatronus> hi, imma [16:19] <Love4Fawkes> grawp would be a great body gaurd spectre. . .lol [16:19] <Spectre> hi imma [16:19] <cloudpic> oh, dear... the forest burned? awful. Yes... that'd be an interesting duo, Spectre ;) [16:20] * Ringo2000 opens leaky galleries to look for images... [16:20] <immaHPfreak> the forest burned? [16:20] <ProngsPatronus> Bane just doesn't seem like a typical centaur [16:20] <immaHPfreak> hi all [16:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> *me posted pictures of a real burnt forest in the UK Back Cover discussion [16:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> dangit [16:20] <ProngsPatronus> he is too angry and vengeful [16:20] <Love4Fawkes> oh, i think Bane is a typical centaur. its firenze that is not [16:20] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast smacks herself in the head [16:20] <cloudpic> Just shows, every group has "good" and "bad" beings depending upon your perspective [16:21] <MrMcGonagall> Of the giants, Dumbledore said: "Extend them the hand of friendship, now, before it's too late…or Voldemort will persuade them, as he did before, that he alone among wizards will give them their rights and their freedom!" Why did this appeal to the Ministry fail? Who was right here? [16:21] <immaHPfreak> yeah i agree with could [16:21] <fawkes28> that is very true, cloudpic [16:21] <cloudpic> thanks, guys [16:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i personally don't see how the ministry could have done better than hagrid and olympe [16:21] <Aislinn> it failed because of both their prejudices and fears, and their denial of Voldy's return [16:21] <Love4Fawkes> DD was so right, but the ministry and wizarding community has a whole are too afraid of the giants [16:21] <ProngsPatronus> because wizards are stupid about some things--and non-humans are one of those things [16:21] <immaHPfreak> the centaurs didnt deny voldermorts return [16:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i guess they could have offered respect or something [16:21] <cloudpic> Oh, the poor giants... how do they ever dare trust anyone [16:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> more land [16:22] <fawkes28> fudge was too prideful and stubborn [16:22] <immaHPfreak> ohhh sorry ha\ [16:22] <fawkes28> oh and selfish [16:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and an idiot, fawkes [16:22] <Potter_fan> yes, Aislinn, true - just like the rights for house elves or prejudice against werewolves... [16:22] <cloudpic> Yes, chocolate, they surely need that [16:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast>  [16:22] <Love4Fawkes> great discriptions of fudge! [16:22] <immaHPfreak> yeah the ministry is loaded with morons... which is a very accurate description of most governments [16:22] <Love4Fawkes> descriptions i meant [16:22] <cloudpic> I'd be afraid of giants too, though *hides head in shame* [16:23] <Ringo2000> who wouldnt? [16:23] <JaneMarple9> even or Hagrid? smile [16:23] <Potter_fan> i think Grawp being at the funeral and being "civilized" may have made an impression on a few people [16:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I'd be afraid... i wouldn't want to be their friends, but i'd try to offer them what they needed to let them have space, to let them survive [16:23] <Spectre> interesting which means Voldemort used to actually persuade the giants. Mass Conjuctivitis curse? biggrin [16:23] <cloudpic> Yes... that was a good crowd to impress, good point Potter_fan [16:23] <JaneMarple9> just buy him a few butterbeers - he'd be your best mate! [16:23] <immaHPfreak> yeah but some giants arent like that [16:23] <Love4Fawkes> i agree chocolate. its so sad to see them killing each other off [16:24] <Spectre> Conjunctivitis, that's it [16:24] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [16:24] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [16:24] <immaHPfreak> some giants aren't grawp... some giants don't have a brother like Hagrid... and some giants are downright vicious and mean [16:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Mr. Hagrid obviously made friends with one, even if it didn't work out in the long run [16:24] <JaneMarple9> yes all giants are different, true [16:24] <MrMcGonagall> Were their any hopeful results of Hagrid and Madame Maxime's secret visit to the Giants' hiding place? [16:24] <immaHPfreak> its hard to figure out what to do with a war between peoples that has nothing to do with you really.. because now the guants are really jsut warring with ththemselves [16:24] <Potter_fan> yes, Grawp is only one - but maybe that shows Hagrid was right that they can be communicated with on a civilized level [16:24] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is interesting--DD offered them thing to better themselves peacefully--LV offered them things to spread distruction [16:25] <ProngsPatronus> maybe LV has an ulterior motive... [16:25] <fawkes28> i think the giants are a lot cause - they already have shown that they are not aligned with harry [16:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> much like how he treats his Death Eaters, eh prongs? [16:25] <ProngsPatronus> yes [16:25] <cloudpic> Exactly... Prongs, will they appreciate that difference? [16:25] <Love4Fawkes> Like Hagrid said, maybe some of the giants will remember what Hagrid had to say [16:25] <immaHPfreak> yeah i do think though that it shows hagrid was right.. that you can communicate [16:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> keep them fighting with each other, so that they don't have time to fight with you [16:25] <cloudpic> That's true, Love4Fawkes, he did [16:25] <immaHPfreak> yeah i agree lovefawkes [16:26] <Spectre> I'm going afk for a while [16:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, Fridwulfa was able to communicate, too... to have been in a relationship with Mr. Hagrid Sr. for 3 years... even if it wasn't a good relationship, they were parents together for a time [16:26] <Potter_fan> good thought - chocolate - LV would want havoc and not discussion [16:26] <cloudpic> What could the giants do for the "good" side? They seem best at creating havoc [16:26] <immaHPfreak> thats true too chocolate [16:26] <immaHPfreak> i think there was hope [16:26] <janieb> I think so too, Love--esp. those who were most in danger from the new gurg [16:26] <immaHPfreak> and i think they did what they could] [16:27] <Love4Fawkes> just not creating havoc would be a big help for the good side! [16:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> kept at bay, cloudpic... i think Dumbledore wanted to keep them off LV's side, and not really for the good side [16:27] <cloudpic> Oh, yes, that's true... [16:27] <JaneMarple9> i think the giants could go to either side [16:27] *** _-hanni-_ has joined #lounge [16:27] <MrMcGonagall> although it sounds from the beginning of HBP that many are already doing LV's bidding. [16:27] <fawkes28> why, jane? [16:27] <MrMcGonagall> Some readers are annoyed or dismissive of Grawp. Why did Rowling create his character? What possible role might he play in Book 7? [16:27] <_-hanni-_> hi [16:27] <ProngsPatronus> hi, hanni [16:28] <Potter_fan> do you thik Grawp could now could help translate between giants and humans? [16:28] <cloudpic> Well, we've said he could be an example of a more civil Giant [16:28] <Aislinn> hagrid had civilized him a lot by the end of HBP, so I've got to believe he will have some role to play in the next book [16:28] <fawkes28> i think to show us again not to judge one based on initial appearances [16:28] <immaHPfreak> i thikn grawp will help protect some people [16:28] <janieb> I think he might bring a few minority giants in to support the Order [16:28] <JaneMarple9> they seem to want to fight with whoever offers the best gifts etc [16:28] <immaHPfreak> i agree janie [16:28] <Love4Fawkes> he's got to play some role in Book 7 JKR wouldn't have created him for nothing [16:28] <cloudpic> Still, there has to be some point to Rowling's including him [16:28] <immaHPfreak> right [16:28] <cloudpic> LOL Love4Fawkes [16:28] <immaHPfreak> he'll probably help protect [16:29] <cloudpic> The school? [16:29] <Love4Fawkes> great minds cloudpic! [16:29] <cloudpic> or the forest? [16:29] <ProngsPatronus> Hagrid's link with Grawp---I wonder... [16:29] * cloudpic waves to L4F [16:29] <immaHPfreak> i was thinking more along the line of people [16:29] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps Hermione's link will be as important [16:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> not necessarily... she created lots of things that seem pointless... Sirius' key that could open any lock... it melted on the first use. a pointless gift that had a lot of potential [16:29] <cloudpic> True, but that didn't involve all the "page time" that Grawp has [16:30] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [16:30] <Love4Fawkes> oh no, Harry used Sirius key in Ootp to break into umbridges office [16:30] <immaHPfreak> i dont think it was pointless so much either anyway [16:30] <ProngsPatronus> well, if hagrid dies, who will be there for grawp--and what will be his reaction-- [16:30] <_-hanni-_> may-be j.k.rowling wants to have one kind of every creature in the final battle?!? [16:30] <ProngsPatronus> hey, mafalda [16:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it sure crowded my brain during OotP lol... it was the only detail I held onto through the whole book, wanting Harry to use the key [16:30] <Potter_fan> culturally, Grawp would know things that giants can relate to and trust and translate to humans? [16:30] <janieb> its melting pointed out the power of the mystery room [16:30] <cloudpic> Oh, Prongs, that might be interesting [16:30] <immaHPfreak> well maybe if hagrid dies that results will be grawp's anger against the death eaters and voldermort [16:30] <MafaldaWeasley> hey PP, I'm back [16:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true, janie [16:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> annoyingly so, lol [16:31] <MrMcGonagall> The Ministry classifies werewolves as magical creatures with an extremely high danger rating, as the risk during a full moon is severe. However, the two werewolves we know by name, Lupin and Fenir, illustrate considerable contrast. Which of these is the better indicator of werewolf character? [16:31] <janieb> *snort* [16:31] <immaHPfreak> maybe... the forest does burn... and maybe withing the destruction of the forest... the creatures of the forest get so mad they finally stand on the order's side [16:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> obviously fenrir [16:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> is better character that's described [16:31] <ProngsPatronus> I think it depends upon whether they see their affliction as a curse or a Dark gift [16:31] <fawkes28> i think somewhere in between [16:32] <fawkes28> i think fenrir is an extreme case [16:32] <MafaldaWeasley> fenrir is extreme and Lupin is the other extreme. One is very evil and enjoy the destruction it can cause and the other wants to save as many as he can [16:32] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [16:32] <immaHPfreak> i think somewhere in between too [16:32] <MrMcGonagall> I don't know. given the advances in treating the werewolf's symptoms, I think Fenrir illustrates the pyscho extreme. [16:32] <fawkes28> he is like the voldemort of the werewolves [16:32] <ProngsPatronus> expie! [16:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think they're dangerous, no matter what - Fenrir just chooses to be evil even when he's not a werewolf [16:32] <Potter_fan> wow - tricky question - didn't Lupin say there are alot of werewolves who live on the fringe because they are not given a choice? [16:32] <JaneMarple9> well we see the "good" werewolf (Lupin) and the bad one too (Fenrir) [16:32] <Love4Fawkes> i agree fawkes, Lupin and Fenir are two extremes and most werewolves fall in between [16:32] <cloudpic> Mayn't it be tied to the charcter of the wizard before he was bitten? [16:32] <MrMcGonagall> Good point, Mafalda [16:32] <janieb> like the giants, werewolves probably understand their lot by the way they've been treated [16:32] <immaHPfreak> i suppose that many werewolves would not go through the lengths lupin doe to have a normal life [16:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Lupin did a lot of attacking in PoA, if you remember [16:32] <immaHPfreak> many people would probably be very bitter about it [16:32] <ProngsPatronus> I think so, cloupic [16:32] <JaneMarple9> yeah even if Fenrir was a normal wizard - he'd still probably be a deatheater [16:32] <fawkes28> right now though it seems like more lean towards fenrir's side but it is only because of the past treatment of werewolves by society [16:32] <cloudpic> Yeah, I was thinking of that sad werewolf just bitten who was in hospital with Arthur [16:33] <Potter_fan> Lupin was lucky that DD let him be educated at Hogwarts - Lupin is not typical [16:33] <JaneMarple9> aww that was a sad one [16:33] <immaHPfreak> yeah... thats just such a sad thing to happen, ya know? [16:33] <MafaldaWeasley> yes, MrM I think that Lupin is very ashamed of his condiotion, he doesn't accept it so well, and ferir on the other hand wants to impose his condition to everybody [16:33] <JaneMarple9> i think he could be recruited [16:33] <cloudpic> I hope Lupin helped him... [16:33] <Love4Fawkes> i hope so too cloudpic [16:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> we see two equally dangerous werewolves, with two very different MEN behind them. Fenrir CHOOSES to be close to children, while Lupin CHOOSES to do all he can to prevent his transformations, to keep his friends and everyone safe while he transforms. This isn't a classification of werewolves, it's a classification of MEN, and Lupin and Fenrir are on completely opposite sides of the morality spectrum [16:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think it also depends upon whether a werewolf was made, or born into the condir=tion [16:33] <cloudpic> If he were treated kindly just after being bitten, he wouldn't join those who isolate themselves [16:34] <janieb> Interesting insight, JaneM [16:34] <JaneMarple9> lupin likes helping people smile [16:34] <Love4Fawkes> well put Chocolate!! [16:34] <ProngsPatronus> that is a great point chocolate [16:34] <immaHPfreak> right chocolate [16:34] <MrMcGonagall> Fawkes28 feels that Voldemort has likely already won the werewolves' loyalty as Lupin said, "…having shunned normal society and liven on the margins, stealing and sometimes killing — to eat ….They think that under his rule they will have a better life." Is this inevitable? Will Lupin be the only exception? What might this mean for Lupin? [16:34] <Expelliarmas> well, Fenrir is bitter, Lupin is not [16:35] <cloudpic> The Ministry has certainly alienated them as a group [16:35] <JaneMarple9> lupin is in danger for being in the Order [16:35] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think so--especially if Wolfsbane Potion is made available [16:35] <Aislinn> Fenrir has a completely different set of values than Lupin does, expie [16:35] <Love4Fawkes> Lupin might not be the only exception, but it does seem as a whole werewolves will join LV [16:35] <Potter_fan> if hermione eventually joins the ministry she could end a lot of this prejudice to other beings... smile [16:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Lupin has it coming... if Fenrir saw Lupin fighting for the Order, then his cover is blown... Fenrir can go back, saying that the Order are just spies and liars [16:35] <JaneMarple9> but he should be able to do some recruiting [16:35] <fawkes28> Lupin has people that love him, which is a big difference from the others [16:35] <immaHPfreak> not the only exception... imagine people who had happy lives with kids and children... just because you're a werewolf it doesnt mean the human side of you is lost... but liek chocolate said it jjust depends on what the human side of you represents [16:35] <cloudpic> Good point, fawkes... so the hand of friendship is key? [16:35] <JaneMarple9> and yes fenrir and lupin have a total different outlook their problems [16:36] <cloudpic> I hope you're right, Jane [16:36] <fawkes28> yes, i think it is, cp [16:36] <cloudpic> about the recruitment [16:36] <ProngsPatronus> well, Fenrir has history on his side [16:36] <JaneMarple9> nice idea cloud - the hand of friendship [16:36] <immaHPfreak> And yeah of course friendship and loyalty is key... thats one of rowling's biggest themes [16:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I wonder if the man who was bit by a werewolf, who was next to Arthur in St. Mungos, is on the good side? [16:36] <Potter_fan> yeah, if they could get jobs and be part of the society, then they would not have to steal to eat [16:36] <ProngsPatronus> the werewolves have been treated abominably by Umbridge [16:36] <MafaldaWeasley> Fenrir is not ashamed of being a werewolf. I see it as a very clear point. Instead of believing he has a desise he wants to impose it to the rest of the wizarding world. He wants to get as many as he can and he became evil, but he thinks he's doing the right thing by join the ones that are some how marginal [16:36] <Love4Fawkes> how many werewolves will be afraid to join the "good" side because they are afraid of Fenrir [16:36] <janieb> DD's Cloud, through and through [16:36] <fawkes28> lupin has people who keep him going - the others have nothing to lose so they have no problems joining voldemort [16:36] <Spectre> I wonder if the werewolves live in communes of some sort, or scattered among the wizards. [16:36] <fawkes28> that is a good point too, Love4Fawkes [16:37] <cloudpic> Yes... and we need more of that sort, Jane! [16:37] <immaHPfreak> and afraid of voldermort non the less [16:37] <Potter_fan> Umbridge is worse than a Death-Eater - she uses legal means to hurt people...! [16:37] <Aislinn> yes, he probably rules through fear and intimidation, much like voldemort, Love4Fawkes [16:37] <cloudpic> The implication is that they live in sort of ghettos [16:37] <ProngsPatronus> I think there will be others who remember their humanity [16:37] <cloudpic> "on the margins of wizarding society" [16:37] <immaHPfreak> i agree prongs [16:37] <Love4Fawkes> it does seem as though many of them live together [16:38] <ProngsPatronus> fenrir has a Dark charisma, like LV [16:38] <MafaldaWeasley> I don't think that many joined fenrir for feaar only, many must believe fenrir to be right, since the wizarding world gives them no space. Lupin said himself how much he suffered [16:38] <cloudpic> So long as their humanity was of the decent sort, that will be helpful. [16:38] <immaHPfreak> probably a desire down within them... even if they live among other werewolves, there are some who probably feel the loss of their humane lives [16:38] <ProngsPatronus> and that is what is mobilising the werewolves now [16:38] <Potter_fan> i think werewolves and giants will remember the small attempts at kindness, given the right timing on events [16:38] <janieb> Great chat, everyone and great article, Fawkes! See you all-gotta go! [16:38] <ProngsPatronus> and the people who offered those kindnesses [16:38] <fawkes28> thanks for coming, janieb [16:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I really get the same feel from werewolfness that I get from the real-life affliction of HIV or AIDS. Molly's reaction to having the werewolf next to Arthur... it's dangerous, in a sense, even if you know how to control its spread. they're sometimes looked down upon in society because it's not understood [16:39] <ProngsPatronus> thanks, janieb [16:39] <immaHPfreak> even when you feel opressed though, many people want to believe in the greater good... and well if there isnt any time to consider the greater good in harry potter world its now [16:39] <MrMcGonagall> Lupin explained, "Dementors feed on us by draining peace, hope and happiness out of the air around them." It's clear why you'd be left with only unhappy memories, but, how might this trigger that sudden experience of re-living your worst memory? [16:39] <cloudpic> That's an interesting analogy, chocolate [16:39] <Aislinn> exactly chocolate [16:40] <ProngsPatronus> because I also think that reliving that memory speeds up the transfer [16:40] <fawkes28> i think it has to do with the way you feel - it brings out the worst in you [16:40] <cloudpic> So instead of the cream rising to the top, we get the dregs? [16:40] <Potter_fan> yes, there is a lot of panic and not much time for thought - but maybe that is what hermione and ron do for Harry - maybe Harry has to step up and show by example [16:40] <immaHPfreak> if you're drained of peace, hope, and happines... your left with what despair and hopelessness you know [16:41] <immaHPfreak> you're [16:41] <Love4Fawkes> drain every thing away until you are only left with your worst memory [16:41] *** _-hanni-_ left #lounge [] [16:41] <Potter_fan> harry can be the one to make people think [16:41] <cloudpic> That worst memory of your life though.... it'd be buried deep wouldn't it? [16:41] <immaHPfreak> and i think its within the worst memories and experiences that we have that you start feeling despair [16:41] <MafaldaWeasley> maybe by bringing out your worst expirence you're desire to achieve you best memory can be so hard that the dementor can be fed from it. or it can see better and suck that hapiness away from you, so that all you have left is despair [16:41] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think so, cloudpic [16:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Dementors were inspired by depression, says Jo... an outside force that forces you to think things that you don't want to think... and makes it impossible for you to see the good in things [16:41] <ProngsPatronus> it will lurk on the fringes of one's consciousness constantly [16:41] <Love4Fawkes> yes cloudpic, and dementors seem to be able to draw that worst memory out from the depth [16:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> for some people, i think it just brings back exact memories [16:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Ron just says he felt weird, like he'd never be happy again, so he didn't re-live his worst memory [16:42] <cloudpic> dreadful creatures... that living the worst thing would weaken your defenses [16:42] <cloudpic> Perhaps he didn't have anything terrible? [16:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and fudge seems to be able to function around them [16:43] <JaneMarple9> ron said the choc? Dudley also said it in book 5 [16:43] <cloudpic> Some people haven't had truly dreadful things [16:43] <Love4Fawkes> maybe ron doesn't have something bad enough in his past to relive [16:43] <MafaldaWeasley> yes Love [16:43] <immaHPfreak> yes. imagine if you were depressed... you harp on the things that were worst in your life... that moments that made you feel hopeless... but how do people get over depression? they try to concentra on the things that fill you with hope//// on happier times that show you what life is also filled with.. but the dementors dont allow you to think of those happoer things [16:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe [16:43] <cloudpic> True, chocolate, I hadn't appreciated that before [16:43] <Expelliarmas> well, fudge doesn't have much of a brain, so the dementor impact would likely be minimal for him [16:43] <Potter_fan> the people attacked by dementors may be too weak to be trouble - peole attacked by werewolves are forced to attck by their wolf instincts on a full moon... [16:43] <cloudpic> Maybe that's why Fudge is so slow to put up an active offense [16:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha expelliarmas... all his thoughts aren't happy ones anyway, are they? [16:43] <Love4Fawkes> and Harry only started reliving his worst memory in peices. the first time on the train he just heard screaming [16:43] <immaHPfreak> so you need extreme will power to be able to fight them... the will to still remember happy.. .the will to still remember hope [16:44] <MrMcGonagall> Falwkes28 comments that "…it seems as if Lord Voldemort is creating an army of Dementors to control and use for his own evil purposes." What purpose will they serve? Can Voldemort control them? How can the Light side defeat them? [16:44] <immaHPfreak> by remembering hope [16:44] <Aislinn> He can sic them on people who defy him, to suck out their souls [16:44] <Expelliarmas> Voldemort likely can control them as he has no real happy thoughts for them to take [16:44] <cloudpic> They even affect Muggles... [16:44] <immaHPfreak> and just in ghenereal to bring down the morale [16:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, expelliarmas [16:44] <Aislinn> and it seems he already has them spreading despair and unease around [16:44] <fawkes28> most people do not know how to defend themselves against him - it is a powerful weapon to get rid of a lot of people [16:45] <Love4Fawkes> a world in a severe depression would be fairly easy to take over [16:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> just setting them loose on the muggles in HBP filled the world with despair [16:45] <cloudpic> Like sending out the worst sort of naysayers in a community [16:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> or, england... not the world lol [16:45] <Expelliarmas> besdies, LV is the personification of dark magic, so he likely knows what to do with them [16:45] *** immaHPfreak has quit [Bye] [16:45] <Potter_fan> they couldn't follow Sirius when he hid in warmer climate - maybe physical light fends them off to some extent? [16:45] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast wonders when the American wizards will step in and stop the whole thing smile [16:45] <fawkes28> Harry did teach the DA how to use a patronus - i can see that coming in handy [16:45] <Aislinn> definitely [16:46] <MafaldaWeasley> but what if they have another purpose.. they seem to be good as gardians, what if they can be garding something [16:46] <Love4Fawkes> lol chocolate. i will refrain from giving my opinion on that! [16:46] <fawkes28> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. [16:46] <Aislinn> erm, not likely chocolate [16:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha, i don't actually believe that, and i kind of want to smack myself for saying it [16:46] *** janieb has quit [Ping timeout] [16:46] *** Horavlo has joined #lounge [16:46] <Horavlo> Hello! [16:46] <Aislinn> hi Horavlo [16:46] <Potter_fan> i wonder if the patronus can defend against other dark creatures - like inferi? [16:46] <cloudpic> I'd love to see a flying wing of wizards going after dementor infested areas with their Patronuses in full force [16:47] <Expelliarmas> i don't think so, potter fan, it seems fire is the thing for inferi [16:47] <Aislinn> that would be cool cloudpic [16:47] <MrMcGonagall> Harry has had contact with other magical creatures, including Buckbeak. The hippogriff's relationship to Hagrid and Sirius seems to have been transferred to Harry as we saw him protecting Harry in HBP. What is there about this relationship that shows Harry's overall attitude toward other creatures and beings? How might this attitude help Harry further? [16:47] <Horavlo> maybe it would work with an inferi...remember the patronus could be also a messenger [16:47] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [16:47] <Horavlo> although the fire could be better to fight against them [16:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i like that dementors are cold... there's a temperature gauge on some magic... inferi, dementors, Voldemort, snakes... all are cold... while there are warm thoughts behind patronuses, and fire that stops inferi, and everything about phoenixes are warm [16:48] <Love4Fawkes> Harry treats creatures and beings with respect and that respect inspires loyality [16:48] <MafaldaWeasley> snale needs heat to move [16:48] <MafaldaWeasley> snakes [16:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but they are cold-blooded [16:48] <Horavlo> yes,you're right [16:48] <Potter_fan> but DD said they fear "light and warmth" [16:48] <Expelliarmas> yes, but i see, cisnb's point, snakes are cold-blooded [16:48] <Aislinn> I think that creatures are naturally drawn to Harry [16:48] <ProngsPatronus> I think Harry takes creatures pretty much as they represent themselves, rather than how tradition has defined their roles in the WW. [16:48] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [16:48] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [16:49] <fawkes28> harry has always been accepting of other creatures - he knows what it is like to be an outsider [16:49] <Love4Fawkes> that's a great point prongs [16:49] <Aislinn> I see creatures being naturally drawn to Harry [16:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think Harry gives respect to creatures who deserve it. Flobberworms, not so much [16:49] <Love4Fawkes> he doesn't stereo type but uses what he sees [16:49] <Aislinn> look at Fang and crookshanks [16:49] <JaneMarple9> flobberworms laugh [16:49] <Potter_fan> with Hagrid as a friend, I would agree with you Prongs!.. smile [16:49] <fawkes28> yes, they are drawn to harry but i think harry is drawn to them [16:49] <JaneMarple9> will they appear in book 7 to defeat Voldie? smile [16:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think it's one of the things that harry doesn't recognize as a strength - it's just somethign that happens [16:50] <ProngsPatronus> yes--creatures are, by and large, true to their nature [16:50] <ProngsPatronus> humans, not so much [16:50] <MafaldaWeasley> animals can see the good in peo-ple, at least those as 'main' characters on the plot [16:50] <Horavlo> Yes,Harry has respect all the creatures becuase he has been influenced by Hagrid [16:50] <fawkes28> yes, chocolate [16:50] <Potter_fan> and harry is very good [16:50] *** ph63915 has joined #lounge [16:50] <JaneMarple9> yes harry respects animals [16:50] <ProngsPatronus> hey, ph [16:50] <Expelliarmas> I think animals sense goodness if so, then they would be drawn to harry [16:50] <ph63915> evening [16:50] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, expie [16:50] <Aislinn> right, prongs and expie - creatures are wonderful judges of character [16:50] <Love4Fawkes> hi ph [16:51] <Potter_fan> maybe harry will draw other creatures of the forest to aid the OOTP? [16:51] <ProngsPatronus> but I do think it is mutual--the lesson with Buckbeak was true of all the creatures in the WW [16:51] <ProngsPatronus> respect must be given [16:51] <fawkes28> true, prongs [16:51] <ProngsPatronus> harry is willing to do that [16:51] *** MafaldaWeasley has quit [Bye] [16:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha, my friend was taking the prediction quiz, and when asked if Harry was going to take ownership of Fawkes, he didn't think it'd be a good idea... Harry ponts to one shoulder: "This is my phoenix! It can cure cancer with its tears, and helped me kill a basilisk, and it never dies...." then he points to his other shoulder "and this is my owl who delivers mail" Hedwig would develop a complex! [16:52] <ProngsPatronus> most other wizards are not [16:52] <MrMcGonagall> As Fawkes28 notes, the magical creatures of the Wizarding World are targets of persuasion from both sides. Some decisions will be based upon the intrinsic nature of the creature, some based upon their own best interests, some because they've been treated poorly by one side or the other. "How will these creatures' choices affect the outcome of the war? [16:52] <ProngsPatronus> I think that it will be critical [16:52] <Horavlo> I think Rowling has add to the story these kind of criatures for any reason...she always (or often) do everything... the mithology could help us to know if the phoenix or the snake (Nagini) has an important role in DH [16:53] <ProngsPatronus> this war is not just for wizards--it will affect the direction of the entire Magical community [16:53] <Potter_fan> book 7 is supposed to be about forgiveness and redemption - we will see which creatures and humans rist to the occasion [16:53] <Aislinn> the creatures will have a strong impact on the balance of the war [16:53] <fawkes28> i think that creatures have been fighting an underlying battle throughout the series, which is why i think they will have their day and be immensely important in DH [16:53] *** Ringo2000 has quit [Bye] [16:53] <fawkes28> they are underestimated far too much and it will catch up with the bad guys [16:54] <Horavlo> yes, all the criatures are also a part of the magical community and they would be in the war against thge dark side [16:54] <ProngsPatronus> and I think that was the underlying message of DDs in contacting these creatures [16:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think that the only big players will be Fawkes, Nagini and perhaps Dobby/Kreacher. I think there will be other stories that we hear about on the side, but we won't really "be there" to see any centaur fights or goblin rebellions. I think they'll exist, but they won't be visible, because Harry will be busy with other things. [16:54] <Aislinn> since Harry is someone who naturally evokes loyalty in others, he will be ahuge asset to drawing some of the creatures to the right side [16:54] <ProngsPatronus> that it is their future, too, which will be decided [16:54] <Potter_fan> yes, harry needs to lead by example [16:54] <Expelliarmas> interesting though that some of the creatures can be swayed by promises of rewards; Harry has no such promises to offer [16:54] <fawkes28> too true, aislinn and prongs [16:55] <Aislinn> I agree that the battles will not always be center stage, chocolate, but we will hear of a larger struggle going on in the wizarding world [16:55] <Horavlo> Yes, in the UK DH cover appears an house-elf (?) and another criature reflected in one of the objects in the place [16:55] <Aislinn> other than respect expie [16:55] <Potter_fan> but small acts of kindness have been key in books [16:55] <Horavlo> by the way... what criature do you think is that? [16:55] <Aislinn> exactly Potter_fan [16:55] <ProngsPatronus> kindness is never wasted [16:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Just like we only saw the results of the majority of the fighting that happened in Hogwarts, and weren't really there, with Harry, getting the story as it happened, I think we'll be getting stories, definitely [16:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> from other people [16:55] <Potter_fan> look at Dobby, and Buckbeak, and Grawp [16:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> or creatures [16:56] <Horavlo> yes chocolate [16:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I want the mermaids to fight! [16:56] <Expelliarmas> true, but even DD sent his emissaries with gifts for the gurk [16:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> an epic underwater battle! [16:56] <Horavlo> I don't think so but it would be cool [16:56] <Aislinn> yes, I agree [16:56] <Potter_fan> the squid, too smile [16:56] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [16:56] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [16:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha the squid! [16:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> neville's all "I've got gillyweed!!!" [16:57] <MrMcGonagall> To review, let's again try to answer Fawkes28's initial question: Which creatures will be likely to "risk their lives to help [Harry] win the war, …remain neutral or side with Lord Voldemort"? [16:57] <Spectre> hm, like, I'm back, missing most of the chat biggrin [16:57] <Potter_fan> house elves for harry [16:57] <Expelliarmas> the house-elves would risk their lives [16:57] <Horavlo> I think Fawkes will have an important role in DH [16:57] <Expelliarmas> the others, well, the jury is out on them [16:58] <Horavlo> Dobby would be important too [16:58] <JaneMarple9> house elves [16:58] <ProngsPatronus> I think that inferi will side with LV, as will the majority of werewolves [16:58] <ProngsPatronus> and giants [16:58] <JaneMarple9> and possibly goblins [16:58] <fawkes28> house-elves, fawkes, and i think the goblins may join his side [16:58] <Horavlo> and dementors [16:58] <ProngsPatronus> but that house elves and goblins will side with the order [16:58] <fawkes28> i think the centaurs will most likely remain neutral [16:58] <Expelliarmas> goblins would be more inclined to stay neutral and see what shakes out [16:58] <JaneMarple9> and hippogriffs if Buckbeak has anything to do with it [16:58] <fawkes28> i think the werewolves are a lost cause [16:58] <Horavlo> grawp could join the fight! [16:58] <ProngsPatronus> I do, too, fawkes, unless the fight comes directly to them [16:58] <JaneMarple9> dementors! *shudder* [16:58] <JaneMarple9> giants possiblu [16:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Fawkes will be a huge plot point in the book - with his connection to Harry and Voldemort and Dumbledore, and his immortality and his extreme power. I just get a sense that he knows what needs to happen... he knows when it's okay for Dumbledore to die, but also when Dumbledore and Harry each need saving [16:59] <Love4Fawkes> dementors are already with LV and will stay with lv [16:59] <MrMcGonagall> I think for the most part the creatures will follow the inclinations of their nature. [16:59] <Love4Fawkes> Giants will join LV [16:59] <JaneMarple9> and werewolves - if lupin sweet-talks to them [16:59] <Potter_fan> but Lupin has made some pathways into werewolves...? [16:59] <fawkes28> dementors - i'd have to be extremely idealist to think they would help harry [16:59] <Love4Fawkes> werewolves will be divided [16:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha fawkes... idealist indeed [16:59] <Horavlo> I think Lupin will murder fenrir as a revenge [16:59] <JaneMarple9> can't see dementors helping harry [16:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Fenrir will be after Lupin for revenge, for spying [16:59] <Horavlo> yes [17:00] <ProngsPatronus> MrM, I think that some of the creatures may rise above the inclinations of their characters [17:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and for working for the Order whild he was pretending to be for the werewolves [17:00] <JaneMarple9> and no can't see lupin murderin fenrir...bella on the other hand! [17:00] <Spectre> Dementors would help Harry indirectly - like, attacking DEs due to a mood swing biggrin [17:00] <Horavlo> haha [17:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> bella murder fenrir? [17:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :-P [17:00] <Love4Fawkes> lol spectre [17:00] <JaneMarple9> no lupin murder bella smile [17:00] <fawkes28> whatever side - i think these creatures are going to play a very important role in this war [17:00] <Horavlo> Maybe Harry will murder Bella because of the Sirius' death? [17:00] <Potter_fan> they need to perform the Homorphus Charm and get ridda Fenrir's hairy bottom!... smile [17:00] <ProngsPatronus> this has been a terrific chat, peeps [17:00] <JaneMarple9> yes fawkes - especailly you biggrin [17:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think nagini and fawkes need to have an epic duel... [17:01] <ph63915> Bother I have to go....night! [17:01] *** ph63915 left #lounge [] [17:01] <fawkes28> Thanks for coming to the chat everyone smile [17:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> epic duels: underwater, werewolf, nagini/fawkes [17:01] <Love4Fawkes> it was a great chat as usual! [17:01] <ProngsPatronus> make sure you vote in the new WWW poll in the Corner Booth! [17:01] * JaneMarple9 prepares for the sunday hug [17:01] <Horavlo> yes! [17:01] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast hugs everyone! [17:01] <Potter_fan> my first chat - nice to have talked with all smile [17:01] <JaneMarple9> (((Corner Boothers))))) [17:01] <Spectre> bye all smile [17:01] <ProngsPatronus> (((group hugs))) [17:01] <fawkes28> come back again! [17:01] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast loves that there's always a ready-made procrastination in the Corner Booth [17:01] <MrMcGonagall> ((((hugs)))) [17:01] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [17:01] <JaneMarple9> back next weekend! [17:01] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [17:02] <Love4Fawkes> Welcome Potter_fan and come again!! [17:02] *** Spectre has quit [Bye] [17:02] <fawkes28> lol chocolate [17:02] <Potter_fan> thanks, I will try smile [17:02] *** Potter_fan left #lounge [] [17:02] <Love4Fawkes> bye everyong. Hugs all around [17:02] *** Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [17:02] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [17:02] <fawkes28> horavlo? [17:02] <fawkes28> time to leave [17:02] <Horavlo> is this chat over? [17:03] <Horavlo> ok [17:03] <fawkes28> yes [17:03] <MrMcGonagall> Thanks for coming! [17:03] <Horavlo> here in spain it's late [17:03] <Horavlo> bye!!! [17:03] <ProngsPatronus> yes, for this week This post has been edited by fawkes28: May 27 2007, 04:40 PM -------------------- |
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