P3 Chat Transcript - 1/7/07, Prophecies |
 Jan 7 2007, 05:25 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor  Posts: 793 Joined: 10:44am September 2, 2005 Location: Buried under a mountain of homework   |
This chat was moderated by Aislinn, fawkes28, futureweasley, Poet, SoonerGryffindor and Theoriser
*** Theoriser has joined #lounge [19:59] *** sdcurtis has joined #lounge [19:59] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [20:00] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [20:00] <JaneMarple9> Hello ((((everybody!))))) [20:00] <sdcurtis> hello [20:00] <fawkes28> hello everyone :) [20:00] <Theoriser> hello :) [20:00] <JaneMarple9> No Movie night tonight :D [20:00] <Theoriser> how are you all? [20:00] <Aislinn> hi everyone [20:01] <Aislinn> not tonight jane [20:01] <JaneMarple9> I'm good [20:01] <sdcurtis> good [20:01] <fawkes28> but we did have fun with it yesterday [20:01] <sdcurtis> I'm looking forward to this chat on my new faster computer [20:01] <Aislinn> that's always fun, sdcurtis :) [20:01] <harryfreak359> okay, I am here now :) Hi everyone! [20:01] <harryfreak359> that's better [20:02] *** cbm has joined #lounge [20:02] <JaneMarple9> hi there harryfreak! [20:02] <Aislinn> hi cbm [20:02] <cbm> Hi everyone! [20:02] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [20:02] <Aislinn> hey Mr M [20:02] <fawkes28> hi cbm and mr. m [20:02] <harryfreak359> I am not feeling to well today, so I may not participate too much :( [20:02] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, Aislinn, fawkes, et al. [20:02] <harryfreak359> hi Mr.M [20:02] <cbm> Topic says PoA form yesterday, what is the topic? [20:02] <cbm> from [20:03] <MrMcGonagall> Awww, get better, hf! We need you in these chats. [20:03] <fawkes28> hope you feel better, hf [20:03] <harryfreak359> Thanks guys :) [20:03] <Aislinn> guess we forgot to change it cbm :) [20:03] <cbm> NP [20:05] <fawkes28> everyone excited to chat about the Prophecy? [20:05] <cbm> I like talking about Prophecies [20:05] <harryfreak359> Yes, sounds greatly exciting [20:06] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:06] <harryfreak359> Hi Debbie [20:07] <futureweasley> hello hello! [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> hallo folks :) [20:07] <JaneMarple9> hi debbie [20:07] <fawkes28> hi debbie [20:07] <Aislinn> hi debbie [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> hey there [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> I just went for a long walk with no coat in January! Is this nuts or what? [20:08] *** Islwyn13 has joined #lounge [20:08] *** ProfessorPete has joined #lounge [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> Colorado seems to be getting all of our snow this year LOL [20:08] <futureweasley> that is crazy! we've got that going on here, too! [20:08] *** Alex has joined #lounge [20:08] <Aislinn> hi islwyn and pete [20:08] <Islwyn13> Heya, guys! [20:08] <sdcurtis> Michigan would like some of your snow [20:08] <fawkes28> How cold is it there today, Debbie? [20:08] <Aislinn> hi alex [20:08] <harryfreak359> Hi Islwyn and Alex [20:08] <Theoriser> aww, we've had no snow at all yet [20:08] <Islwyn13> My parents live in Colorado...they're getting hammered [20:08] <harryfreak359> Hey Pete! [20:08] <Alex> hey [20:08] *** hrh7 has joined #lounge [20:08] <Islwyn13> brb [20:08] <futureweasley> I live in Michigan. and I say they can keep their snow!! [20:08] <futureweasley> lol [20:08] <Aislinn> hi hrh [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> I think it's in the mid 40's [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> it was 58 or 59 in Bangor yesterday [20:09] <fawkes28> brrr [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> that's *so* warm!!! [20:09] <Alex> no snow it ontario lol [20:09] <sdcurtis> we had snow when I was there last week [20:09] <ProfessorPete> Hello all :) [20:09] <Alex> :) [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, colorado seems to be getting everyone's share of snow this year [20:09] <harryfreak359> they sure aer [20:10] <JaneMarple9> hi islwyn good to see you! And hi to everyone else who came in :) [20:10] <MrMcGonagall> That avalanche was something else. [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> hey HF [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> there was an avalanche? yikes! [20:10] <cbm> I am amazed no one was killed [20:10] <fawkes28> oh, i heard about that [20:10] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, took two cars with it on the road. No serious injuries, miraculously. [20:10] *** Alex has quit [Bye] [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> wow EEK [20:10] <harryfreak359> That's good [20:11] <cbm> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070107/D8MGDMGO0.html for the avalanche [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> that must've been terrifying for those people [20:11] <Aislinn> definitely [20:12] *** Buckbeak has joined #lounge [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> hi buckbeak [20:12] <Buckbeak> hi, sry i'm late [20:12] <futureweasley> not late! we'll be starting in about 2 minutes [20:12] <futureweasley> just in time, is more like it! [20:12] <futureweasley> :wink: [20:12] *** MirandaV has joined #lounge [20:12] <Aislinn> hi miranda [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> hi miranda [20:12] <Buckbeak> oh, thats good :thumbsup: [20:12] <ProfessorPete> ey Buckster! [20:13] <MirandaV> Hi everyone [20:13] <Buckbeak> :thumbup: [20:13] <Theoriser> hi miranda [20:13] *** dumbleydore18 has joined #lounge [20:13] <harryfreak359> Hi dumbleydore [20:13] <Aislinn> hey dumbleydore18 [20:13] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [20:13] <Aislinn> sooner! [20:13] <fawkes28> hi sooner [20:13] <harryfreak359> Hi Sooner [20:13] <MrMcGonagall> Woot for Sooner! [20:14] <SoonerGryffindor> Hey everyone :) [20:14] <ProfessorPete> WHOOT [20:14] <Buckbeak> hey dumbleydore and sooner [20:14] <dumbleydore18> hey guys! Hi Sooner! [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> sooner! [20:14] <SoonerGryffindor> how is everyone today? [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> hey dumbley [20:14] <futureweasley> great [20:14] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [20:14] <harryfreak359> eehhh...suffering from a bad cold [20:14] <Aislinn> hi prongs [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> hi PP [20:15] <harryfreak359> Hi Prongs! [20:15] <ProfessorPete> great as I am still on Holidays! [20:15] <dumbleydore18> hi Debbie!!!!!!!!!!! I saw your PM how awsome!!! thank you! [20:15] <ProngsPatronus> good afternoon, all! [20:15] <SoonerGryffindor> hey Prongs. NIce to see you in here as well Miranda [20:15] <JaneMarple9> Hi Sooner Hi Prongs [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> I'm good, enjoying the heat wave while it lasts [20:15] <MirandaV> good, a little wet from the rain [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> yer welcome Dumbly [20:15] <Theoriser> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [20:15] <Theoriser> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [20:15] <Theoriser> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [20:16] <Theoriser> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [20:16] <Theoriser> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat [20:16] <fawkes28> The topic of our chat is "How will prophecised events work out and will there be any new ones?" First we'll look at some minor prophecies that are unfulfilled, including Harry's seemingly prophetic dreams. Then we'll discuss the famous Voldemort/Harry prophecy last since it will take up the bulk of our time. [20:16] <fawkes28> Jo said that because neither Harry nor Neville was 'pre-ordained' before Voldemort's attack to become his possible vanquisher, then the prophecy became a catalyst for a situation that would never have occurred if it had not been made. To quote Jo, "Prophecies are usually open to many different interpretations. That is both their strength and their weakness." [20:16] <fawkes28> In Book 1, Harry dreamt he wore Quirrel's turban which got heavier and tightened on his head. A laughing Malfoy turned into Snape, whose laugh became high and cold. Is there any part of this dream that is unfulfilled or that may foreshadow events yet to come? [20:17] <Aislinn> didn't it also finish in a flash of green? [20:17] <Islwyn13> Hmm... [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> there is an nteresting thread on that in the BC right now [20:17] <futureweasley> hmm, I had forgotten that dream...isn't every interesting [20:17] <futureweasley> lol [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> what? [20:17] <fawkes28> i think he did see a flash of green [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [20:17] <futureweasley> it's...not "isn't" [20:17] <MirandaV> Maybe it's saying that Snape is on LV side, isn't his voice described as high and cold [20:17] <Theoriser> I think that this foreshadowed Dumbledore's death, more than anything [20:17] <cbm> I have no idea [20:18] <MrMcGonagall> I find it interesting that this dream ties into my triple-antagonist theory. Harry has three different literary antagonists: Draco (his peer), Snape (his teacher), and Voldemort (super-evil nemesis). [20:18] <fawkes28> I think it is interesting that Malfoy is in the dream as he comes to play a bigger role in the 6th book [20:18] <Buckbeak> still thinking :ponder: [20:18] <ProngsPatronus> I think his subconscious was putting the clues of that book together [20:18] <fawkes28> that is very interesting mr. m [20:18] <dumbleydore18> Hmmm....well I think the whole Snape and Draco thing was significant because of the ending of HBP [20:18] <harryfreak359> I don't think so, I think that was just something that was bothering him...maybe with some memories of some stuff and things [20:18] <MrMcGonagall> It's like antagonists at three different levels. [20:18] <Islwyn13> Yeah, I agree with PP [20:18] <futureweasley> yes Prongs, it seems that there is information that Harry doesn't know he knows coming to the surface [20:18] <JaneMarple9> harry's dreams are usually significant [20:18] <cbm> Well Snape and Draco are now linked by the unbreakable vow [20:18] <Aislinn> yes, prongs, that was how I saw it, but it was interesting that it was so early into his stay at Hogwarts [20:19] <fawkes28> He also thought that Snape was the one who wanted to get the stone, which could explain why he was in the dream [20:19] <Aislinn> I believe it was his first night there [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I think his sub concious recognized a danget within the Slytherin house, and was trying to put the pieces together. He went from a Slytherin class mate, through the head of house, to the actual heir {even though he didnt know that at the time} [20:19] <Islwyn13> Well, it shows us that DRaco, Snape, and LV will be his continuing protagonists, during the course of the series [20:19] <JaneMarple9> yes the unbreakable vow is important [20:19] <Aislinn> and unfortunately, he didn't remember it the next morning [20:19] <futureweasley> that's interesting, too, fawkes...Harry had it wrong, so what he "knew" and what he thought he knew were colliding [20:19] <ProngsPatronus> I do think that Harry has a penchant for Divination--but he would never tell trelawney about it [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> seer qualities Prong? [20:20] <Aislinn> I think he does too [20:20] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:20] <Islwyn13> Well, is he a seer, or does it have more to do with his connection to LV [20:20] <JaneMarple9> perhaps Prongs, maybe he knows more about Divination than he realises [20:20] <MirandaV> I think it's the connection to LV [20:20] <futureweasley> if there is "seer" blood in the Evans family (as I expect there is) then this makes a lot of sense [20:20] <Buckbeak> me too [20:20] <fawkes28> I agree Prongs. Harry is more intuitive that other characters in the series. I wonder how much of it has to do with the scar and how much is his own incites [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Miranda [20:20] <ProngsPatronus> LV possesses--he does not divine [20:20] <Islwyn13> We haven't really seen him "see" anything that relates to anything other than LV [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> the connection helps him a lot [20:20] <Aislinn> not all of it has to do with LV, although most of it does [20:20] <dumbleydore18> Also the fact that he Turban was squeezing his head could have been a clue for Harry that Quirrel was a suspect....Or it was the first time that the scar was a link to what Voldy was thinking [20:20] <ProngsPatronus> well LV is what is on his mind [20:21] <JaneMarple9> but I has thought Ron has more seer abilities than harry [20:21] <MirandaV> Yes, if he was a seer I think he would foresee some other major events, such as what was really going on at the MoM in OorP [20:21] <SoonerGryffindor> If I had to sit down and state what I really think, I think it is a combination of some inherent seer qualities and the connection to LV [20:21] <MirandaV> *OotP oops [20:21] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry is also very intuitive [20:21] <ProngsPatronus> divination does not work that way [20:21] <fawkes28> In a Book 3 dream Harry overslept for a Slytherin Quidditch match which they lost due to using Neville as seeker. He then dreamt he'd made it to the match but Slytherin was riding dragons and he'd forgotten his Firebolt broom. Could this foretell any events or under-preparation on Harry's part in Book 7? [20:22] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think so. [20:22] <Islwyn13> I think the dragon thing was the first task [20:22] <harryfreak359> I don't think so [20:22] <DumbleDebbie> seems like natural anxiety before a big match [20:22] <Islwyn13> he was figthing a dragon, and dint' have his broom with him...had to bring it to him [20:22] <JaneMarple9> well it seems to foreshadow book 4, with the dragons [20:22] <Aislinn> this is one that did not have to do with LV [20:22] <MrMcGonagall> Harry had ann Eragon moment in his dream. [20:22] <ProngsPatronus> I think it might have something to do with foretelling book four, though [20:22] <cbm> I do not think so, I think it was Harry's insecurities at work [20:22] <fawkes28> Well, in some ways Neville is a seeker. he is trying to find his own truth and be at peace with what happened to his parents. [20:22] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it could also forshadow the prophecy in book 5 with Neville almost being the chosen one as well [20:22] <MirandaV> I agree, book 4 foreshadowing [20:22] <Aislinn> but does seem to be prescient [20:22] <DumbleDebbie> yes, it does Jane [20:22] <Islwyn13> And Neville as seeker...Neville almost took Harry's plac ein teh prophecy [20:22] <JaneMarple9> but perhaps neville as the seeker...that could indicate foreshadowing in book 7 [20:23] <Islwyn13> must read while typijng :) [20:23] <JaneMarple9> Neville seeking for answers? [20:23] <DumbleDebbie> but I see that as something Jo did for our benefit not to show Harry as forseeing it [20:23] <SoonerGryffindor> its weird, because that dream seems to be forshadowing events from both books 4 and 5 now that I think about it [20:23] <Theoriser> I think this is a dream that wasn't intended to foreshadow anything, it's just the type of dream you have when you're worried about something [20:23] <MirandaV> Neville is searching for something??? [20:23] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Theo [20:23] <dumbleydore18> I think that dream could have been percieved at the TWT coming up in book 4...Harry not being prepared for the first task (dragons) and not having his firebold [20:23] <fawkes28> the slytherins are always his worst rival in quidditch - he is always going to have some anxieties when he plays them [20:23] <Islwyn13> I would agree, Theoriser, but it's too specific [20:23] <Islwyn13> and it mirrors something we see later too closely, IMO [20:24] <Aislinn> I agree, islwyn [20:24] <SoonerGryffindor> well, Neville could have been chosen by LV, but Harry was. I think that Harry's dream tells us that Neville could not have done what only Harry seems capable of doing. The power that LV knows not [20:24] <JaneMarple9> yes, perhaps there is more to Neville's parents torturing than there we have known so far [20:24] <MirandaV> Ooooh, that's good Sooner [20:24] <Islwyn13> I agree, Sooner [20:24] <dumbleydore18> another thing that i have is why was Neville in it thoug? that is the one thing that stands out the most for me... [20:24] <SoonerGryffindor> becasue I see "seeker" as being what Harry is gong to have to do in book 7 [20:24] <DumbleDebbie> I think so Jane [20:24] <Aislinn> absolutely sooner - seeking the hocruxes and LV are his primary tasks [20:24] <ProngsPatronus> somwething for which he has a natural talent [20:25] <JaneMarple9> Neville is going to help harry in book 7 i think [20:25] <dumbleydore18> why was Neville in the "seekers" position though Sooner? [20:25] <fawkes28> It is interesting because this dream all happens before we know about the prophecy [20:25] <Islwyn13> BEcause that's Hrary's position [20:25] <SoonerGryffindor> because he was almost the boy from the prophecy [20:25] <MirandaV> Maybe Harry's experiences as a "seeker" will help him in book 7, and it could never have helped Neville because he couldn't do it [20:25] <ProngsPatronus> because he was the other boy of the prophecy? [20:25] <Islwyn13> In his dream, Neville had taken Harry's place [20:25] <Islwyn13> and was failing [20:25] <SoonerGryffindor> right Miranda [20:25] <MrMcGonagall> I think we're reading way too much into it. [20:25] <fawkes28> In Book 4, Harry dreamt he was on the back of an eagle owl who flew into Voldemort's chair. Then Harry saw some events from behind Voldemort's chair. This foreshadowed the Harry/Voldemort connection. The Malfoys have an eagle owl. Could the dream also foretell Harry getting to Voldemort through the Malfoys in Book 7? [20:25] <harryfreak359> I agree Mr.M [20:25] <dumbleydore18> so could Neville and Harry both help? [20:25] <SoonerGryffindor> another reason why Harry has the tools that Neville doesnt [20:25] <DumbleDebbie> yes Mr M [20:26] <Aislinn> interesting question [20:26] <futureweasley> sorry kids, I have got to go! Dinner guests and I have a dinner to prepare. Enjoy the rest of the chat! [20:26] * SoonerGryffindor is going to perform langlock on Mr M in a moment. :P [20:26] <harryfreak359> Well, I never thought of that, but I don't think the eagle owl had anything to do with the Malfoys, but I do think that dream was much mroe than a dream [20:26] *** futureweasley left #lounge [] [20:26] <fawkes28> bye future [20:26] <SoonerGryffindor> bye fw [20:26] <harryfreak359> bye Future [20:26] <ProngsPatronus> bye, future! [20:26] <DumbleDebbie> bye fw [20:26] <Buckbeak> bye bye [20:26] <Islwyn13> I thin kit helps clinch the suspicion we all had that the Malfoys (and Draco) were/would work for LV [20:27] <ProngsPatronus> we find out later in the book that Malfoy, elder, does work for LV [20:27] <fawkes28> I don't think they way harry will get to voldemort is through malfoy [20:27] <JaneMarple9> the whole series could have been so different if Neville was "The Boy Who Lived" [20:27] <MirandaV> I'm a little slow, I never even noticed the eagle owl [20:27] <ProfessorPete> ya same [20:27] <Islwyn13> I agree, FAwkes...I think...though I am still really curious to see how Draco's story resolves [20:27] <SoonerGryffindor> dont worry about that, I didnt either the first few times I read it [20:27] <fawkes28> once again I think the eagle owl just foreshadows Draco's greater involvement in the books [20:27] <JaneMarple9> Yes I think the eagle owl is connected with the Malfoys [20:27] <Islwyn13> Maybe he will be a link - get Harry close enough to LV to do whatever he needs to do...hmm... [20:28] <MrMcGonagall> I thought it was a peculiar way for Harry to see that scene. [20:28] <SoonerGryffindor> wow, just look at all of the things that Harry has linked together in his mind and doesnt realize [20:28] <dumbleydore18> I think the eagle represents something...but I don't know what i don't think it links to the Malfoys...eagles are protectors aren't they? [20:28] <JaneMarple9> amd that is the first time i've noticed the eagle owl connection too [20:28] <Islwyn13> but I also think, in this case, it was meant to show us that Draco would be a greater danger later on [20:28] <Islwyn13> not just a prat [20:28] <MirandaV> I doubt Harry will get to LV through the Malfoy's though, I just don't see Draco suddenly saying hey Harry, I hate you, but I want to help] [20:28] <SoonerGryffindor> well, it is interesting that Draco was last seen wth Snape though [20:28] <fawkes28> While Draco may help Harry, I don't foresee him being that involved in helping him defeat Voldemort - maybe a small piece of advice that will help [20:29] <Islwyn13> And that DRaco had failed in his mission...he pulled a Regulus :) [20:29] <harryfreak359> I agree Fawkes [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> and at this point in time, Narcissa must be about totally unhinged [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> the subconscious often links things like that [20:29] <Islwyn13> couldn't go through with teh true violence and evil of what LV was asking [20:29] <MirandaV> As any mother would be sooner [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> right [20:29] <fawkes28> In Grimmauld Place in Book 5, Harry dreamt of many-legged creatures with cannons for heads, and that they'd be studying weapons in Hagrid's class that year. Could there be a creature with a dangerous head in Book 7 that could be used as a weapon? Could the weapon be Harry's own mind which he could use against Voldemort due to their connection? [20:29] <hrh7> If Drako helps Harry, it could be unintentional [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> so there might be a weakenss amongst LV's ranks there [20:29] *** jammi567 has joined #lounge [20:29] <JaneMarple9> I am hoping Draco will return to the good side in book 7, and give harry some important inforrmation [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> hi jammi [20:29] <MirandaV> I agree, Cissy may look to anyone to help her son [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> yes [20:30] <SoonerGryffindor> hi jammi [20:30] <jammi567> hi everyone [20:30] <Islwyn13> I thin kunintentional help will come from Peter...I don't think Jo would use that plot device with more than one character [20:30] <Buckbeak> :welcome: jammi [20:30] <cbm> How can Draco return to the good side when He was never there to start with [20:30] <ProfessorPete> hey jammi [20:30] <Aislinn> it made me think of quintapeds [20:30] <dumbleydore18> Blast-Ended Skrewts have dangerous weapons built in [20:30] <JaneMarple9> never could work out this dream, what it meant [20:30] <MirandaV> I think that the many legged creature thing may be from meeting Aragog and the weapon thing we all know [20:30] <Aislinn> which are supposed to be quite dangerous [20:30] <jammi567> what are we talking abot? [20:30] <SoonerGryffindor> actually, this dream just made me laugh [20:30] <Islwyn13> hmm...he was already thinking about the "weapon" that LV was supposedly looking for... [20:30] <Theoriser> me too Sooner [20:30] <ProngsPatronus> it made me think of the Order of the Phoenix... [20:30] *** Islwyn13 left #lounge [] [20:30] <DumbleDebbie> I don't see that having any deep meaning [20:30] *** Islwyn13 has joined #lounge [20:31] <SoonerGryffindor> jammi, we are talking about the dreams and prophecies and how things might relate to book 7 [20:31] <MirandaV> In book 5, they thought LV was looking for a weapon aka the prophecy...I laughed also :) [20:31] <harryfreak359> Welll, I don't think that it has a great meaning, but I do think that creatures will be important in the war [20:31] <JaneMarple9> yes perhaps it indicated the Order of the Phoenix or DA [20:31] *** Alexk has joined #lounge [20:31] <DumbleDebbie> hi alex [20:31] <SoonerGryffindor> It will be very interesting if quintapeds do become a factor [20:31] <jammi567> ahh, okay. what about the dream that harry didn't remember in book one. was that forshadowing for booksix? [20:31] <SoonerGryffindor> hey alex [20:31] <fawkes28> repeat of question: In Grimmauld Place in Book 5, Harry dreamt of many-legged creatures with cannons for heads, and that they'd be studying weapons in Hagrid's class that year. Could there be a creature with a dangerous head in Book 7 that could be used as a weapon? Could the weapon be Harry's own mind which he could use against Voldemort due to their connection? [20:31] <Alexk> hello [20:32] <Buckbeak> hi alex [20:32] <harryfreak359> hi Alex [20:32] <Theoriser> that's a good idea harryfreak, it could foreshadow how important creatures will be in the final war [20:32] <MirandaV> Maybe Aragog's family will join the fight??? [20:32] <ProngsPatronus> well, what about yhestrals? [20:32] <SoonerGryffindor> okay, someone refresh me.... what did they study in Hagrid's class that year? only thestrals? [20:32] <ProngsPatronus> sorry, Thestrals [20:32] <dumbleydore18> Snakes have weapons on their heads....their fangs...in OOTP Arthur was attacked by a Snake.... [20:32] <JaneMarple9> well we know voldemort was using harry as a weapon [20:32] <Buckbeak> mabey dragons could come back into the picture [20:32] <Islwyn13> and unicorns earlier [20:32] *** TheFixxer has joined #lounge [20:32] <harryfreak359> No they studying unicorns ttoo [20:32] <Islwyn13> with Grubbly-Plank [20:32] <DumbleDebbie> hi thefixxer [20:32] <harryfreak359> studied* [20:32] <TheFixxer> Hiya. [20:32] <fawkes28> i agree, hf. Harry is always finding new creatures in all of the books - he very well could come across one like the one in his dream [20:33] <Buckbeak> sup [20:33] <harryfreak359> and I think they studied some other things too [20:33] <SoonerGryffindor> hmmm. I am trying to come up with something, but no theory is forthcoming [20:33] <jammi567> i don't think creatures like unicorns are important anymore, as they've served their puropse. [20:33] <MirandaV> that would have to be against the illegal ban on cross breeding!!! lol [20:33] <Islwyn13> I have to say, I think that WAS a sign of Harry's fear [20:33] <Islwyn13> of what the weapon might be [20:33] <dumbleydore18> what about the significance of snakes?? snakes are used a lot in the HP series and in OOTP [20:33] <SoonerGryffindor> it sure would [20:33] <MrMcGonagall> I wonder what led Harry's subconscious to include Hagrid and his class in the dream. [20:33] <Islwyn13> dn't think it was meant to be taken literally [20:33] <Aislinn> and in Harry's dreams, dumbleydore [20:33] <fawkes28> That is a very good point, isl [20:33] <SoonerGryffindor> that's exactly what I was pondering Mr M [20:33] <JaneMarple9> didn't they study Krups and Bowtruckles? [20:33] <Islwyn13> i.e. that there's actually a creature out there with many cannon heads :) [20:33] <ProfessorPete> Could the Giant Squid be a secret weapon? [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe it foreshadows that Grawp will be an important weapon? [20:34] <MirandaV> yes they did Jane [20:34] <Alexk> i wonder if harry could use nagini against Voldemort, Voldemort and nagini have a very strong connection, and if harry's so strongly connected with Voldy...(just a thought) [20:34] <JaneMarple9> They were in the exam in OotP [20:34] <MrMcGonagall> Could be Sooner. [20:34] <fawkes28> it may have just been a dream based on fear - if anyone should have these dreams, it should be harry [20:34] <DumbleDebbie> maybe Harry snuck a turn on one of Dudley's computer games :wink: (just kidding) [20:34] <MirandaV> I think Grawp will be significant [20:34] <harryfreak359> lol [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Debbie [20:34] <jammi567> possibly Alexk, but how? [20:34] <JaneMarple9> but they don't seem very dangerous animals [20:34] <MirandaV> lol [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it has something to do wth grawp now [20:34] <fawkes28> Harry's mind was just over thinking that night - he really needs a penseive [20:34] <sdcurtis> When you posted that dream for some reasons the mention of mutlitple heads made me think of the hydra [20:34] <Aislinn> grawp - that's interesting, sooner [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> oooh, that is interestind sd [20:35] <JaneMarple9> Grawp maybe will help recruit giants? [20:35] <MirandaV> Just what he needs...a hydra! [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe [20:35] <jammi567> why a hydra? [20:35] <TheFixxer> Maybe, but Grawp is a bit small. :D [20:35] <MrMcGonagall> That's how Snape described the Dark Arts in HBP [20:35] <MirandaV> only 12 feet fixxer [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> a hydra really would be the last thing Harry needs to deal with [20:35] <fawkes28> Part of another Book 5 dream included Harry seeing Ron and Hermione wearing crowns. Was this simply because they'd just been made prefects, or does it have additional Book 7 prophetic meaning? [20:35] <MirandaV> or was it 18 [20:35] <Theoriser> yeah, I guess it could foreshadow more mythological creatures [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> 18 [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> no kidding Sooner [20:35] <TheFixxer> I thought it was 16. [20:35] <JaneMarple9> Who doesn't need a penseive! Even Muggles could find it useful! [20:36] <Islwyn13> mine's on back-order :) [20:36] <MirandaV> No kidding Jane! [20:36] <Aislinn> some people think that it has to do witht he quarreling couple, in Alchemy theory [20:36] <dumbleydore18> lol [20:36] <SoonerGryffindor> A lot of people think it forshadows Weasley is our King [20:36] <Islwyn13> I think it just has to do with the prefect thing [20:36] <cbm> I think it is just them being prefects [20:36] <JaneMarple9> well there's the "Weasley is out King" in book 5 [20:36] <MirandaV> I think it was about prefects [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> maybe they'll be Head Girl & Boy [20:36] <fawkes28> yes, aislinn [20:36] *** Alexk has quit [Bye] [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> that's good Sooner [20:36] <MrMcGonagall> Interesting that in Orthodox and Eastern-rite Catholic wedding traditions that crown are used in the ceremony for the couple. [20:36] <ProngsPatronus> it may have many meanings [20:36] <SoonerGryffindor> oh, that's cool Mr M [20:36] <Islwyn13> that wouldn't explain Hermione wearing a crown also, though [20:36] *** Alexk has joined #lounge [20:36] <jammi567> hummmm... [20:36] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye] [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> neat Mr M [20:36] <Islwyn13> if it foreshadows "Weasley is our King" [20:36] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> wb Alex [20:36] <cbm> I like that Mr M [20:36] <ProngsPatronus> I was just about to say that, Mr. M [20:37] *** hrh7 has quit [Bye] [20:37] <MirandaV> I like MrM's idea [20:37] <Alexk> ty [20:37] <JaneMarple9> and them being prefects too. But really, I think Harry deserved the prefect badge [20:37] <dumbleydore18> i think it has to do with being made prefect....unless they have royalty in the wizarding world... [20:37] <TheFixxer> They don't. [20:37] <jammi567> no way [20:37] <Islwyn13> Lupin said they don't [20:37] <harryfreak359> I think it was them becoming prefects [20:37] <cbm> Or at least Dumbledore should of told him his reasoning for picking Ron [20:37] <JaneMarple9> and of course....the Half Blood Prince...massive foreshadowing [20:37] <Islwyn13> He did.. [20:37] <MirandaV> I do to, but DD had a good point...Harry's school work already suffered from all the attempted murder [20:37] <SoonerGryffindor> so.... nothing for book 7 then? [20:37] <Islwyn13> Harry had "enough to be getting on with" [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, Head Boy & Girl [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> if they go backto school [20:38] <Islwyn13> didn't want to give him an added stress [20:38] <MrMcGonagall> Could symbolize marriage. [20:38] <SoonerGryffindor> could be head boy and girl, but I dont like it [20:38] <fawkes28> It could also symbolize how Harry views his two best friends - he holds them in great esteem [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> just a thought [20:38] <Islwyn13> oo, that's good! [20:38] <JaneMarple9> a crown...how about the goblin made tiara of Fleurs, for the wedding? [20:38] <jammi567> i can'tsee any dreams forshadowing book 78 [20:38] <Islwyn13> I like that, fawkes [20:38] <Aislinn> true fawkes [20:38] <Buckbeak> i thought the trio wasn't going back to school, they were searching for horcruxes, debbie [20:38] <dumbleydore18> agreed Mr.M [20:38] <SoonerGryffindor> its a good thought Debbie, I just dont want it to happen that way :lol: [20:38] <jammi567> makre that book 7 lol [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [20:38] <Islwyn13> I agree, Buckbeak, so I dno't think they'll be head boy/girl [20:38] <dumbleydore18> Ron and Hermione are going to get married... [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> maybe it doesn't mean anything more than the prefect thing [20:38] <JaneMarple9> ot the tiara which was in the RoR? That could be foreshadowing book 7 [20:39] <Buckbeak> i like that idea, dumblydore [20:39] *** ProfessorPete has quit [Bye] [20:39] * SoonerGryffindor really, really wants Ernie McMillan to be Head Boy [20:39] <fawkes28> well, they do need to survive the war first [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Sooner [20:39] <Islwyn13> they will! [20:39] <MirandaV> I do like Ernie...lol [20:39] * JaneMarple9 wants Neville to be head boy :) [20:39] <dumbleydore18> it was Mr. M's idea buckbeak [20:39] * ProngsPatronus wants Neville ans Luna to be Head Boy and Girl [20:39] *** ProfessorPete has joined #lounge [20:39] <Buckbeak> well is till like it [20:39] <jammi567> the tiara was only mentioned a couple of times, so no [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> Luna? HA! That would be fun to read :D [20:39] <JaneMarple9> awww perfect...Luna and Neville! :D [20:40] <MirandaV> Yes it would Debbie [20:40] <fawkes28> Similar to Harry's Quirrel dream in Book 1, his dreams in Book 6 were "broken and disturbed by images of Malfoy, who turned into Slughorn, who turned into Snape..." Why was Slughorn included in this dream? Does it foretell anything for Book 7? [20:40] <Buckbeak> isn't luna a year younger though [20:40] <Islwyn13> I think the crown thing is the prefect thing, maybe the marriage thing [20:40] <MirandaV> Yes she is [20:40] <Islwyn13> Oo, interesting questoin... [20:40] <JaneMarple9> yes she is so bang goes one theory :( [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> seems to be the people he's obsessing over that year [20:40] <dumbleydore18> wasn't slughorn a death eatrer? [20:40] <Islwyn13> It may have had to do with Slughorn having inadvertantly helped LV [20:40] <SoonerGryffindor> no [20:40] *** Pellinore has joined #lounge [20:40] <Islwyn13> that may have been the connection [20:40] <MirandaV> No he was running from them [20:40] <Aislinn> it is interesting that in both cases, harry moves from draco to an adult slytherin [20:40] * SoonerGryffindor has a new idea!!!! [20:40] <jammi567> slughorn wasn't a deatheater [20:40] <harryfreak359> Let's hear it! [20:40] <MrMcGonagall> Hmmm, another Slytherin. [20:41] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that it relates to the task that Draco had to do [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> hi pellinore [20:41] <dumbleydore18> ohhhh i always get that mixed up.. [20:41] <fawkes28> I think because he needed to get information from him - also we didnt know slughorn too well - i have a hard time now trusting newbie teachers :lol: [20:41] <JaneMarple9> not sure if i understand this dream either [20:41] <Pellinore> afternoon :) [20:41] <Aislinn> hi pellinore [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> Slughorn does Sooner? [20:41] <MirandaV> *confused* [20:41] <Buckbeak> hello [20:41] <jammi567> hi ya [20:41] <JaneMarple9> hi Pellinore [20:41] *** mollywobbles23 has joined #lounge [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> hi molly [20:41] <jammi567> hi ya [20:41] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry's dream starts with Draco, goes through Slughorn (who harry had to go through to get the memory) and ends up with Snape who did the final deed [20:41] <Buckbeak> hi molly [20:41] <mollywobbles23> hi! [20:41] <dumbleydore18> Slughorn was the postions proffesor replacing Snape who had a connection with Draco... [20:41] <SoonerGryffindor> does that make any sense? [20:41] <MirandaV> Hi molly and Pellinore [20:41] <ProngsPatronus> well, they are all Slytherins, for one thing--and Slughorn taught Snape, as he is teaching Malfoy [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> sure [20:42] <dumbleydore18> i think it makes sense Sooner [20:42] <MirandaV> Sure does sooner [20:42] <Buckbeak> yeah it does [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> well, its just one interpretation [20:42] <mollywobbles23> I feel I missed something important [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> I'm sure there are many others [20:42] <harryfreak359> Interesting, Sooner [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> He was obsessing over Draco because he suspected him. He's always obsessing over Snape, and he was obsessing over Slughorn for the memory [20:42] <JaneMarple9> ((((((((((((Mollywobbles))))))))))))))))))) [20:42] <ProngsPatronus> well, all three were certainly hiding something [20:42] <mollywobbles23> *grins* hi Jane! [20:43] <Buckbeak> true prongs [20:43] <SoonerGryffindor> so, the year one dream was 3 slytherins, and so was the year 6 dream [20:43] <MirandaV> I agree Prongs, that may be the link [20:43] <DumbleDebbie> oooo, good one Sooner [20:43] <SoonerGryffindor> what is interesting is taht both Draco and Snape were in both dreams [20:43] <Islwyn13> Quirrel wasn't slytherin, was he? [20:43] <dumbleydore18> adding onto PP thoughts...their secrets involved Dumbledore! [20:43] <DumbleDebbie> that's very true [20:43] * mollywobbles23 runs to get SS and HBP copies [20:43] <MirandaV> Well, slytherin turns out the dark wizards [20:43] <fawkes28> again it seems to be another anxiety dream - harry never has had good relationships with the slytherins [20:43] <DumbleDebbie> they are his main antagonists in his everyday life [20:44] <Aislinn> It is interesting, how jo has his mind working on these things at night [20:44] <DumbleDebbie> Voldy is usually at a distance [20:44] <ProngsPatronus> this one may have something to do with the LV connection--LV always knows when someone is lying to him [20:44] <Islwyn13> not just Slytherin, though, if we're right about Peter being a Gryffindor [20:44] <JaneMarple9> we haven't seen many good slytherins have we? [20:44] <jammi567> not all of them though [20:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I am holding out hope for Sluggy [20:44] <Aislinn> so, harry is picking up on 3 that are lying to him, prongs? [20:44] <fawkes28> After Dumbledore's death, Harry dreams of cups, lockets, and mysterious objects he can't quite reach. Dumbledore offers Harry a rope ladder that turns into snakes when Harry starts to climb. Is this just a weird dream or could it foretell something to do with Deathly Hallows [20:44] <DumbleDebbie> me too Sooner [20:44] <JaneMarple9> except for possibly Slughorn, he seems on the good side [20:44] <JaneMarple9> yes [20:44] <Islwyn13> The "snakes" took DD from harry [20:44] *** HPFanatic has joined #lounge [20:45] <ProngsPatronus> I am thinking so, Aislinn [20:45] <DumbleDebbie> hi hpfanatic [20:45] <Aislinn> the rope ladder turning into snakes is going to be a foreshadow of some time [20:45] <Buckbeak> sup fanatic [20:45] <harryfreak359> wow I don't remember this [20:45] <MirandaV> I think it's all about the horcruxes or horcri, since Nagini may be one [20:45] <DumbleDebbie> I'll tell you after I read DH ;) [20:45] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that understanding this dream is a big clue to book 7 [20:45] <HPFanatic> hi dumbledebbie [20:45] <Aislinn> type, not time [20:45] <Islwyn13> you don't think it referred to DD giving Harry help, but being taken from him by Snape? [20:45] <jammi567> i don't remember that dream [20:45] <DumbleDebbie> that could be Isl [20:45] <Buckbeak> where was this dream in the book, i donn't remember it [20:45] <fawkes28> i definitely think this is a foreshadowing dream [20:45] <TheFixxer> I agree with Islwyn. [20:45] <JaneMarple9> he is to find some significant things while he is making his way to battle voldemort [20:45] <Pellinore> I thought that the rope ladder was related to whatever DD leaves behind to help Harry, maybe Aberfroth, turns out to be bad and turns onHarry [20:45] <fawkes28> there is an awful lot of symbolism in the dream [20:46] <ProngsPatronus> I think it refers directly to DD's guesses about the Horcruxes [20:46] <dumbleydore18> the snakes could represent all the struggles Harry will have to face when finding the Horcri....gee snakes sure are getting a bad rep... [20:46] <MirandaV> That could be it Islwyn...it makes since [20:46] <sdcurtis> I don't remember that dream [20:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it foreshadows that Harry is going to need the help of Slytherins, rather than Dumbledore to reach his goals [20:46] <sdcurtis> where is it in HBP [20:46] * mollywobbles23 was too slow; grabbed all books instead [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> maybe Harry will focus on Nagini as a horcrux only to find out that was a wrong guess [20:46] <Islwyn13> Oh, wow, Sooner! Thjat's interesting [20:46] <MirandaV> Oh, I like that Sooner, maybe ol' Sluggy??? [20:46] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:46] <Aislinn> it does, prongs, but him offering the help of a ladder adds a different element [20:46] <Islwyn13> teh Slytherins must be included in the fold soon [20:46] <SoonerGryffindor> yes. Either Sluggy, Draco, or Snape [20:46] <JaneMarple9> test [20:46] <JaneMarple9> yes still here [20:46] <fawkes28> I know that the ladder has some significance in alchemy [20:46] <jammi567> test what [20:46] <Alexk> I think it's Harry's own mind telling him that dd was helping Harry reach the Horcruxes, and him and dd were getting close to finding all of them(atleast that's how harry felt), and then the snakes(snape, draco, etc.) took that chance away from him [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> lemme guess, you think it's Snape ;) [20:47] <MrMcGonagall> That is interesting, Sooner. Especially in light of the whole "houses uniting" theme the Sorting Hat is pushing. [20:47] <mollywobbles23> how so, fawkes? [20:47] <MirandaV> It's kind of foreshadowing the all the houses must work together thing [20:47] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Debbie [20:47] <Theoriser> nice idea, Alexk [20:47] <dumbleydore18> I see Slughorn helping Harry but decieving him....that is the way Slughorn is. [20:47] <JaneMarple9> alchemy is such a confusing subject [20:47] <DumbleDebbie> just a wild stab in the dark :D [20:47] <fawkes28> I think it has something to do with seeking the truth and being enlightened [20:47] <JaneMarple9> i hardly know anything abour it [20:47] <SoonerGryffindor> right. I think that subconciously Harry has been listening to the hat [20:47] <MirandaV> brb...baby crying [20:47] <MrMcGonagall> I would so freak out if a ladder I was climbing turned to snakes. My worst nightmare. [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> well, a ladder is usually associated with rescue [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> or help [20:48] <ProngsPatronus> yes--that something that was an aid turned to bite one, as well [20:48] <jammi567> i've got to go for the minute. but i'll be back [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> that would be terribly disturbing Mr M, and would result in a nasty fall I would assume [20:48] <Islwyn13> ascention [20:48] <TheFixxer> I wonder if the ladder fell apart, or whether it stayed together. [20:48] <TheFixxer> I can't seem to remember. [20:48] <fawkes28> Jo also has talked about snake lore and its importance so we know in some way this will play out in the 7th book [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> when you think about it, DD has always been Harry's failsafe [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> and he is not going to be there anymore for that [20:48] <JaneMarple9> even worse, the ladder turning into snakes and as you fall, there are werewolves below :eek: [20:48] <MrMcGonagall> Climbing up, making progress. . . only to have something yanked from under you. [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> very true, he's lost that 'I'm safe with DD around' feeling [20:48] *** jammi567 has quit [Bye] [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> and he is going to have to depend on the snakes or fail [20:48] <HPFanatic> which book is this from [20:48] <ProngsPatronus> which is exactly what happened on the Tower [20:48] <HPFanatic> the ladder dream i mean [20:49] <fawkes28> He definitely is going to have doubts that he can complete his quest without his mentor to be by his side [20:49] <Aislinn> yes, and I wonder if it symbolizes that the snake is wrongly identified as a Horcrux [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> HBP [20:49] <HPFanatic> oh [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont think so Aislin [20:49] <TheFixxer> If the ladder turned to snakes, but was still climbable, I think it means that harry has to come to terms with the link that Harry and voldie share. [20:49] <Alexk> i wonder if harry feels as though dd set him up to lose, seeing as it was dd who gave harry the ladder that turned into snakes [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it means he will have to depend on "snakes" [20:49] <Islwyn13> I think that's possible Aislinn [20:49] <Aislinn> since the ladder represents DD's help with identifying the Horcruxes, but then the ladder turns to snakes, stopping the progress [20:49] <JaneMarple9> i think dumbledore will have left something, in his will, to help Harry defeat Voldemort [20:49] <ProngsPatronus> well Harry has always seen snakes in a different light than others, because of his Parseltongue ability [20:49] <HPFanatic> wow i didn't pay attention to that before, it makes all the difference if the ladder fell apart or not [20:50] <DumbleDebbie> possible Aislinn [20:50] <Buckbeak> i still can't find this dream in hbp [20:50] <fawkes28> In Book 3, Trelawney's prophecy said Voldemort would "Rise again [...] greater and more terrible than ever he was." What do we know about Voldemort's actions in the first war? What are some ways he might be even more terrible and great in the last book than he was in his first reign of terror? [20:50] <cbm> Maybe Aislinn [20:50] <Aislinn> I don't think nagini is a horcrux, but yes, prongs, his parseltongue ability may come into play [20:50] <harryfreak359> That's a good theory Aislinn [20:50] <JaneMarple9> ladders are usually useful [20:50] <JaneMarple9> well he'll have werewolves on his side [20:50] <cbm> I think the body count is going to go up very quickly in book 7 [20:50] <HPFanatic> i think the ladder turning to snake means harry will use the help of a slytherin [20:50] <Buckbeak> LV might have more followers this time, more allies, like magical creatures, etc. [20:51] <JaneMarple9> and more deatheaters than before [20:51] <DumbleDebbie> frightening to contemplate [20:51] <SoonerGryffindor> this is scary, isnt it? I mean we really didnt see LV doing a whole lot in book 6 [20:51] <ProngsPatronus> I think that innocents will be a target this time [20:51] <ProngsPatronus> he has fenrir on his side [20:51] <DumbleDebbie> maybe he'll recruit more species to the dark side this time [20:51] <JaneMarple9> voldemort has done some big recruiting lately [20:51] <Islwyn13> didn't he target innocents before? [20:51] <fawkes28> I think he will be greater and more terrible because his is determined to show people that he is powerful even though he had a weak moment (which he will never admit to) [20:51] <harryfreak359> Yes, it is, Sooner, it makes me wonder what he is going to be doing in 7 [20:51] <TheFixxer> Yeah, I think it just means he's become ruthless. [20:51] <Islwyn13> he used to lynch bunny rabbits :) he's always ben ruthless [20:51] <SoonerGryffindor> this coupled with Jo's "grisly plans" comment makes me scared somewhat of book 7 [20:51] <mollywobbles23> "To dream that you fall from a ladder, denotes the hardships, risks or failures you are faced with in your endeavors." from http://dreammoods.com/cgibin/searchcsv.pl?...p;header=symbol [20:51] <ProngsPatronus> I think he will go after Muggles, too [20:51] <Buckbeak> or he is planning something, and biding his time [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> thanks molly [20:52] <Alexk> he seems to be slowly gaining control of all the very useful magical creatures (dementors, giants, etc.), he's got a bigger better army [20:52] <Aislinn> he also is no longer restrained by Dumbledore's presence - the only wizard he ever feared [20:52] <Pellinore> nice link Molly [20:52] <JaneMarple9> yes, Muggles are in danger in book 7 [20:52] <DumbleDebbie> it isn't going to be pretty Sooner [20:52] <dumbleydore18> when I think if the prophecy i think of the thing that Jo said about VOldy gettingthe leg room he needed and I think it applies to this question...what evil deeds will voldy do? according tothe prophecy [20:52] <Islwyn13> Oo, now that's a good point, Aislinn [20:52] <Aislinn> which allows him to become more terrible [20:52] *** TheFixxer has quit [Bye] [20:52] <fawkes28> yes, with dumbledore gone - he fears no one [20:52] <JaneMarple9> because why else were we introduced to the Muggle PM in book 6? [20:52] <HPFanatic> when did harry have this dream you guys was it after he heard malfoy and snape talking in the christmas party??? [20:52] <Islwyn13> and will be able to do more damange [20:52] <Islwyn13> damage, rather [20:52] <Aislinn> exactly [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> I've always wondered about that too Jane [20:53] <SoonerGryffindor> not sure HP [20:53] <cbm> Good MW, I wonder if JKR knows this, maybe she has a book on dreams, much like she has one on divination [20:53] <HPFanatic> mmmm [20:53] <SoonerGryffindor> I bet she does cbm [20:53] *** Gryffinclaw has joined #lounge [20:53] <Alexk> also, the only person who can stop voldy, is harry(as far as we know), now that dd's gone....and the factor of the mind control voldy has over harry, is very dangerous [20:54] <Aislinn> hey gryff [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> hiya gryffinclaw [20:54] <Pellinore> JkR has said that all Major characters have already been introduced and i don't see a Slytherin that would be a bridge character so have my suspitions that they will play a main role [20:54] <MirandaV> I'm back, I think that Muggles will definitely be killed, I don't think JK writes anything without knowing all...:) [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> hi gryffinclaw [20:54] <Gryffinclaw> Hi Guys [20:54] <cbm> If she does, I wish I knew the title [20:54] <Buckbeak> hi gryff [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> agreed Miranda [20:54] <ProfessorPete> the muggle and magic worlds have to merge so I think Muggles will surely be killed by Voldy [20:54] <Aislinn> true pellinore [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> yes, I think the war will cross into both worlds [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> just like it did before with Grindelwald [20:54] <Buckbeak> i do too, but how will muggles kill lv, pete [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> *hides* [20:54] <ProngsPatronus> JKr has said that will never happen, Professor Pete [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [20:54] <fawkes28> Trelawney said that Harry would "live to a ripe old age, become Minister for Magic and have twelve children." Was she just being over-enthusiastic, or is this a real possible outcome to Harry's future if he survives past the last book? [20:55] <JaneMarple9> it has too. The Muggles better be prepared [20:55] <HPFanatic> i don't think they will kill LV [20:55] <Pellinore> i could see the Sorting Hat being taken out of commision or not used again though. [20:55] <MirandaV> I don't know about the merging thing I just don't think so [20:55] <dumbleydore18> or else Prof Peate the muggles nad wizard wi=orld will help in the defeat of Voldy [20:55] <Gryffinclaw> Over Enthusiastic [20:55] <fawkes28> i think she was just guessing here [20:55] <MirandaV> Wizards have always protected Muggles without their knowledge, that will continue [20:55] <JaneMarple9> of course it's possible! :D [20:55] <MrMcGonagall> More of Trelawney's fake predictions. Way overenthusiastic. [20:55] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL. Poor Ginny if it turns out to be true [20:55] <Pellinore> Trelawyney's a fraud outside of the Hermon Munster voice/trance ;) [20:55] <Gryffinclaw> He will live to a decent age I think [20:55] <sdcurtis> I think that was way over thetip [20:55] <cbm> It may be real, just overinterpreted, [20:55] <Aislinn> I think she was giving him positive information as a reward for his interview [20:55] <Islwyn13> I think JKR already said that being MoM wouldn't be for Harry, didn't she? [20:55] <ProngsPatronus> that was more gypsy fortune-telling than anything else, I think [20:55] <fawkes28> she takes what she observes about people and makes educated guesses - although this one is a little embelished [20:55] <Islwyn13> or was that Headmaster? [20:55] <Buckbeak> i think that this was just being over enthused, because she is an old fraud, and the only way things she says is true, is when she is in the trance, and haveing a real vision [20:55] <Alexk> I can't see Harry as Minister of Magic, his character is too spontaneous for that [20:55] <mollywobbles23> What was the context of that prediction? I don't remember. [20:55] <Aislinn> just like Flitwick gave him the box of iced mice [20:55] <JaneMarple9> maybe not 12 kiddies but at least 5 or 6! [20:56] <MirandaV> Ginny will be a broadmare in the future??? [20:56] <Gryffinclaw> But he won't have 12 children or become minister of friday [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> overdone, but a happy ending would be nice [20:56] <Pellinore> 7! [20:56] <HPFanatic> haha!! [20:56] <Islwyn13> Yeah, I think she made this one up [20:56] <JaneMarple9> ginny could be very busy after book 7 :D [20:56] <Pellinore> The 7th child of the 7th child of the 7th child ;) [20:56] <MirandaV> I think he will live to a ripe old age though [20:56] <SoonerGryffindor> In a way though, didnt she realize just how she was contradicting her earier "predictions"? [20:56] <Buckbeak> good point [20:56] <fawkes28> i don't think she is a complete fraud - i think she is just lacking self-confidence and gets carried away now and then [20:57] <Aislinn> from your lips to Jo's ears Miranda! :) [20:57] <dumbleydore18> I think part of trelawneys predictions would be true for harry's outcome in life but this prediction is way over exaggerated. I tihnk Harry will end up working in the MoM, but not become minister. Maybe an auror or unspeakable. [20:57] <JaneMarple9> of course pellinore, nice idea [20:57] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:57] * MrMcGonagall thinks Trelawney seldom thinks about what she's saying. [20:57] <fawkes28> lol [20:57] <Alexk> harry's never liked the people who've worked as mom, why would he want the position? [20:57] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe she had been hitting the sauce that day [20:57] <Pellinore> she had given up on trying to butter up the ministry plant [20:57] <HPFanatic> i don't know how harry can get along with the ministry [20:57] <Islwyn13> I don't think he trusts the system enough to be a part of it [20:57] <Islwyn13> he's seen the corruption...and he's no politician :) [20:57] <HPFanatic> yea me neither [20:57] <Gryffinclaw> yeah [20:57] <mollywobbles23> lol Mr M [20:57] <fawkes28> i think like everyone else, she wants harry to live and be happy so she said it [20:57] <ProngsPatronus> I think the system may well be different after VoldWarII [20:57] <Aislinn> right, alex - I don't see him ever wanting the Minister's job [20:57] <JaneMarple9> sometimes there is a grain of truth in trelawney's predictions [20:57] <Islwyn13> I don't it... This post has been edited by Theoriser: Jan 7 2007, 05:25 PM |
 |
 
 
|
|
Jan 7 2007, 05:26 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor Posts: 793 Joined: 10:44am September 2, 2005 Location: Buried under a mountain of homework |
[20:58] <DumbleDebbie> or maybe she was sober Sooner, she seems to be more accurate when she's sloshed
[20:58] <Islwyn13> all governments have corruption [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> true [20:58] <Islwyn13> nature of the beast [20:58] <MirandaV> I think if Harry becomes MoM he will fire almost everyone [20:58] <fawkes28> What about the different spades cards, especially the Knave of Spades, that Trelawney kept coming across in Book 6... Who does the dark young man refer to? Is there more to come in Book 7 in relation to this card coming to past? [20:58] <HPFanatic> there is always truth to trelawney's predictions [20:58] <MrMcGonagall> lol, Debbie [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [20:58] <Pellinore> he likes Mr. Weasley & Shacklebolt i think, never know, hope they get'm into thelocked room. [20:58] <JaneMarple9> well there's the hanged man [20:58] <Gryffinclaw> I think he is Draco or Harry [20:58] <MrMcGonagall> Could refer to Tom Riddle. [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> now see... I think she was onto something here [20:58] <JaneMarple9> which is a tarot card [20:58] <HPFanatic> i think its draco [20:58] <Alexk> hmmm...draco [20:58] <MirandaV> Draco's blond...so I think it's Harry [20:58] <fawkes28> i think so too, sooner [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> right Jane [20:58] <JaneMarple9> but i think it is harry or snape [20:58] <Islwyn13> I believe the Knave of Spades is the same as the Page of Swords in Tarot... [20:59] <Islwyn13> not sure, though [20:59] <Islwyn13> would have to look that up [20:59] <Gryffinclaw> Yeah or Snape [20:59] <SoonerGryffindor> seeing as what we had to do to get the title, it makes me even more suspicios of this card [20:59] <ProngsPatronus> it could be either Harry or LV [20:59] <HPFanatic> not really, maybe she meant dark intentions [20:59] <MirandaV> Oooh, yeah could be Snape [20:59] <Islwyn13> I think it's Harry [20:59] <DumbleDebbie> she probably was onto something, she'd been on a long bender (hiding lots of bottles) [20:59] <HPFanatic> 'young' man?! [20:59] <HPFanatic> can't be snape [20:59] <ProngsPatronus> it would be the Knight-- [20:59] <SoonerGryffindor> I think its Harry [20:59] <HPFanatic> not that he's old or anything [20:59] <Gryffinclaw> Snape is young in Wizard terms [20:59] <Pellinore> dark young man could mean evil rather then hair color so i can see it being a red herring to harry but really refereing to Draco [20:59] <MirandaV> Debbie, you crack me up [20:59] <HPFanatic> who is the questioner then [20:59] <Aislinn> she was talking about Harry [20:59] <Buckbeak> got to go everyone :bye: Bye! [21:00] <MirandaV> I really think it was Harry [21:00] <DumbleDebbie> it being Harry does seem to make sense [21:00] <MirandaV> bye Buckbeak [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> bye buckbeak [21:00] <Aislinn> bye buckbeak [21:00] <JaneMarple9> he's not as old as dumbledore...i'd say snape was middle aged [21:00] <Islwyn13> bye, Buckbeak! [21:00] <DumbleDebbie> bye [21:00] *** Buckbeak left #lounge [] [21:00] <HPFanatic> yean but who is the questioner??? [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> I sitll think it was Harry, especially since he was hiding right behind her [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> Trelawney [21:00] <Theoriser> I think we're meant to be confused about who the person she's talking about could be [21:00] <HPFanatic> she said something like ' that doesn't make sense' [21:00] <Alexk> or, it could also refer to someone who's still in the dark about how they feel about the events going on around them, someone who hasn't quite chosen a path yet....*cough* draco. [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> right [21:00] <JaneMarple9> but harry seems a good candidate for the dark young man [21:01] <SoonerGryffindor> because she didnt know he was right there [21:01] <mollywobbles23> Oh, I think that whole [21:01] <mollywobbles23> oops [21:01] <fawkes28> Centaurs prophecise much broader events such as general times of war. Firenze has spoken a bit more specifically to Harry. Will he have any prophectic words for Harry in Book 7? [21:01] <ProngsPatronus> lol--I think that was because the dark young man was supposed to dislike her [21:01] <MirandaV> agree sooner [21:01] <mollywobbles23> that whole "dark man" thing was for comic effect [21:01] <JaneMarple9> Draco is blond so he is out [21:01] <mollywobbles23> I think it was Harry [21:01] <MrMcGonagall> You know, [21:01] <MrMcGonagall> I think he might [21:01] <DumbleDebbie> I hope he's involved in the fight. He'd be a great ally [21:01] <MirandaV> I think Firenze will come into play in DH [21:01] <mollywobbles23> I hope so [21:01] <HPFanatic> ok, for people who think its about harry: who is the questioner???????? [21:01] <fawkes28> I really do think the centaurs can foresee the future. [21:01] <Theoriser> 'dark' isn't very specific, it could mean harry because of his dark hair, it could mean draco because of the dark emotions he has [21:01] <Gryffinclaw> No [21:01] <cbm> I do not think that dark referred to coloring, but to their allegience to voldemort [21:01] <SoonerGryffindor> I think there is a reason Firenze is living in the castle now [21:02] <Pellinore> would have to be early in the book but i'd expect some at least.. she's good at giving hints about stuff in the same book. [21:02] <Aislinn> me too sooner [21:02] <JaneMarple9> i think draco is the questioner [21:02] <mollywobbles23> Didn't she originally intend for the Divination teacher to be spot on all the time? [21:02] <HPFanatic> what [21:02] <Alexk> i agree sooner [21:02] <Gryffinclaw> Harry doesn't trust Diviniation [21:02] <harryfreak359> I think that they might know something...the things is getting them to say what they mean clearly lol [21:02] <sdcurtis> I think the Centuars understand a little more what's going on [21:02] <JaneMarple9> questioning his faithfulness to voldemort [21:02] <MirandaV> besdes the fact that all of the other centaurs want to murder him....I think so too sooner [21:02] <SoonerGryffindor> I think something bad will happen to the rest of the herd in the FF and that Firenze will be the one left to help [21:02] <HPFanatic> harry and draco hardly ever talk janemarple9 [21:02] <dumbleydore18> well one thing mentioned was the fact that Mars was brighter than normal emphasising warring times to come...I think Firenze will be there to help Harry decipher the skies [21:02] <MrMcGonagall> Maybe Harry will be sorry he didn't pursue NEWT Divination with the nag! :D [21:02] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [21:02] <fawkes28> I think Harry will talk to Firenze who will help him understand what it is the he foresees in the skies [21:02] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Mr M [21:03] <MirandaV> lol MrM [21:03] <HPFanatic> firenze is a bit off with his predictions though [21:03] <JaneMarple9> they don't assosiate much. thats true so I am probably wrong [21:03] <fawkes28> They kepy mention how mars was brighter - I know it seemed silly when we read it, but they may actually know what will happen [21:03] <dumbleydore18> how so BPFanatic? [21:03] <mollywobbles23> how so, HPFanaitc? [21:03] <MirandaV> I don't think he's off, I think he's more general and he says the future can be changed [21:03] <dumbleydore18> *HPFanatic [21:03] <ProngsPatronus> I think it interesting that Harry saw DD die on the Astronomy Tower--and Firenze is adept at looking to the skies for an answer [21:03] <Alexk> i think firenze knows more than he's letting on...perhaps to protect harry [21:03] <DumbleDebbie> I don't thnk we know if the centaurs are wrong or not yet [21:03] <JaneMarple9> firenze and the other centaurs seem more interested in Mars [21:03] <Pellinore> depends on what direction 7 will take.. if its a huge all out war with tons of people/creatures, Firenze could be a bridge character to get theCentaurs on their side. [21:04] <HPFanatic> yea, but trelawney clearly saw the events that occured on the tower in her cards [21:04] <MirandaV> He tells Harry in Book 1 I think tht he's glad the stars were wrong [21:04] <dumbleydore18> how does that make Fireze's predictions wrong? [21:04] <HPFanatic> and she mentioned the firenze thought she was wrong [21:04] <HPFanatic> she said the centaur kept mentioning the her that she was off [21:04] <fawkes28> yes, they do Jane, which is why I think it was just a red herring - that they are star gazers and don't seem to know what they are talking about [21:04] <JaneMarple9> i have often wondered why firenze took up the divination job and not be a assistant to the astonmary teacher [21:04] <MrMcGonagall> I think Firenze was right about Trelawney. [21:04] <Aislinn> me too Mr M [21:04] <ProngsPatronus> he can't get up the stairs? [21:04] <DumbleDebbie> I think he said they had read the signs wrong before and he hoped they had read them wrong this time [21:04] <HPFanatic> how so???? [21:05] <Aislinn> the centaurs have a more reasonable approach to divination [21:05] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he can get up stairs, just not the ladder [21:05] <mollywobbles23> Well, the way I understand it, the centaurs do not predict things specifically, because specifics are not on the universe's priority list. They concentrate on general predictions that can be interpreted numerous ways. Kind of like Trelawney's prophecies or Nortradamus [21:05] <HPFanatic> yea, but the lighting struck tower should have been easy for firenze to see [21:05] <JaneMarple9> yeah firenze knew trelawney wasn't a fantastic divination teacher [21:05] <HPFanatic> the only thing he really sees is mars [21:05] <HPFanatic> which is not that hard to see [21:05] <HPFanatic> even i can tell there's gonna be trouble [21:05] <fawkes28> With all those unfulfilled prophecies in the Department of Mysteries do you think there could be any more about Harry, Voldemort or other characters that are alive? Will we get to hear any of these in Book 7? [21:05] <MirandaV> That's right Debbie, thanks, and then in Book 5 when they meet up again he says something else, darn my books are upstairs [21:05] *** Gryffinclaw has quit [Bye] [21:05] <MirandaV> Exactly Molly [21:05] <JaneMarple9> yes i hope so [21:06] <ProngsPatronus> I thought they were all destroyed in the MoM fight, like the Time Turners [21:06] <cbm> I would think so [21:06] <Islwyn13> many were, but I don't thin kall were [21:06] <MirandaV> Were they all or only some? [21:06] <Islwyn13> remember, there were isles upon isles of them... [21:06] <JaneMarple9> i hope we will hear a few prophercies of Dmbledores and Voldemorts [21:06] <Pellinore> I don't see that unless the MoM trip is really early in the book. Just seems to hard to get Harry there early for it to fit in. [21:06] <DumbleDebbie> are they all unfulfilled? [21:06] <sdcurtis> I'm curious about those fragments of the others they heard [21:06] <fawkes28> i would love to know if there was another prophecy [21:06] <Islwyn13> they were in aisle, what, 93? [21:06] <Islwyn13> something like that? [21:06] <cbm> Only one or 2 shelves were destroyed, not all of them [21:06] <dumbleydore18> it is a possibility that there could be more prophecies, but if there arewouldn't they be mentioned by now? [21:06] <mollywobbles23> No, only a shelf or two worth. Who knows how many others are there. [21:06] <JaneMarple9> and possibly snapes too [21:06] <DumbleDebbie> or have some of them been fulfilled? [21:06] <SoonerGryffindor> okay, gotta run guys. Enjoy the rest of the chat :) [21:06] <fawkes28> although i don't think the prophecies are what is important rather it is the choices [21:06] <mollywobbles23> I wonder if one of them predicted DD's death. [21:06] <DumbleDebbie> bye :) [21:06] <MirandaV> bye sooner [21:06] <fawkes28> bye sooner! [21:07] <Alexk> bye sooner [21:07] <ProfessorPete> bye [21:07] <harryfreak359> yes, but remember that propecies don't always happen [21:07] <JaneMarple9> bye sooner! [21:07] <Pellinore> cya sooner [21:07] <harryfreak359> Bye Sooner [21:07] <mollywobbles23> bye [21:07] <HPFanatic> bye sooner [21:07] <MirandaV> Events of the future can always be changed [21:07] <DumbleDebbie> there probably are soem that involve Harry as he's sucha central figure in their world [21:07] *** SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [21:07] <harryfreak359> They are not definite [21:07] <cbm> True, the main one would never of been fulfilled if Snape never heard it [21:07] <sdcurtis> I think that's why there's a hall of Prophecies and that it's kept under wraps [21:07] <HPFanatic> i was surprised to learn that people don't know about the hall of prophecies. in HBP it mentions that the ministry denied such a room exists [21:08] <Aislinn> I'm sure there are unfulfilled prophecies there [21:08] <JaneMarple9> some events of the future can be changed, but not all the time [21:08] <mollywobbles23> Why keep a record of them in the first place? [21:08] <Islwyn13> oo, I missed that [21:08] <MirandaV> Because they don't want people to know their futures probably [21:08] <Islwyn13> keep a record for study [21:08] <HPFanatic> yea thats a waste of space! [21:08] <fawkes28> If there are any more prophecies about Harry or Voldemort, do you think Voldemort will be more careful, this time around, before acting upon a prophecy? [21:08] <HPFanatic> study what? [21:08] <Aislinn> yes, islwyn - they are studying the phenomenon [21:08] *** Poet has joined #lounge [21:08] <JaneMarple9> perhaps there will be a few prophercies in the mysterious room of requirement [21:08] <HPFanatic> remember that no one is allowed to here the prophecies [21:08] <Islwyn13> I don't think there will be anotehr one [21:08] <Alexk> i think harry and voldemort's prophecy will be fulfilled, because they are both so driven at getting rid of the other [21:08] <JaneMarple9> hi poet [21:08] <ProfessorPete> Hi Poet [21:09] <mollywobbles23> Study what? The only people who (as far as we know) can touch them are the people they are about. [21:09] <fawkes28> I would like to think he would be more careful; however, Voldemort can be impulsive [21:09] <Aislinn> he seems to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again [21:09] <cbm> Probably not [21:09] <MirandaV> I just don't think there are more prophecies about Harry and LV...I think the one was enough [21:09] <MrMcGonagall> I think he would be a bit more careful, but I don't see any more prophecies coming down the pike. [21:09] <Islwyn13> I thin kunspeakables have abilities we don' tknow about [21:09] <HPFanatic> me too! one is enough [21:09] <Islwyn13> otherwise, how could they study the Veil? [21:09] <Islwyn13> They know things we don't :) [21:09] <HPFanatic> maybe harry should check under the name TR [21:09] <MirandaV> I agree Islwyn...the unspeakables will be important [21:09] <dumbleydore18> Voldy was quick to jump on the band wagon with the first one, i don't think he would be careful with more prophecies, he might not be as judgeful of the others, but his main goal is to gain more power and get more minions. [21:09] <fawkes28> I am sure he will go on a monologue and get caught up in it and do something silly again [21:10] <mollywobbles23> That would have to be the only explanation. I hope we find out someone we've already met is an Unspeakable. [21:10] <Pellinore> interesting idea that TMR would have a prophecy about him. [21:10] <mollywobbles23> No idea who, though. [21:10] <MirandaV> I think James and Lily may have been unspeakables [21:10] <JaneMarple9> if there are more prophercies voldemort will be much more careful with them [21:10] <JaneMarple9> so do i miranda [21:10] <MirandaV> and Harry will find out more in GH [21:10] <Islwyn13> yeah, I agree with that, Miranda...it's certainly possible, anyway... [21:10] <fawkes28> Will anything become of the prophecy: "..at the solstice will come a new..."? [21:10] <HPFanatic> yea [21:10] <JaneMarple9> either that or aurors [21:10] <Islwyn13> I thin kit already has... [21:10] <Islwyn13> I think she was thinking about the title of book 7 [21:10] <MirandaV> Yes, a new title for Book 7!!!!!!!!!!! [21:10] <harryfreak359> maybe [21:10] <Aislinn> I think it was just another prophecy [21:11] <Islwyn13> came out on the Winter Solstice [21:11] <dumbleydore18> the solstice is when Voldy will be defeated or all the Horcri are found. [21:11] <JaneMarple9> ...at the solstice will come a new title :D [21:11] <DumbleDebbie> lol [21:11] <Islwyn13> that would break the pattern of the books, though... [21:11] <MirandaV> Exactly Jane! :) [21:11] <MrMcGonagall> Nope, I think it was probably just a random thing. Solstices are important in the magical world, so it's not surprising that there'd be a prophecy about one. [21:11] <Aislinn> it did, but at the time she wrote OotP, would Jo have known she would release book 7's title when she did? [21:11] <HPFanatic> haha! [21:11] <DumbleDebbie> right Mr M [21:11] <Pellinore> agree with MrM [21:11] <Poet> Prophecies often come true because people think they apply to them and they do something about it. Unless someone thinks that prophecy is about them, it's likely anything will come of it, in my opinion. [21:11] <Aislinn> I don't think so [21:11] <Islwyn13> oo, unless you mean the summer solstice... [21:11] <JaneMarple9> ....but at the solitice will be born a hero who defeat the Dark Lord [21:11] <Islwyn13> that's possible [21:11] <fawkes28> Jo just likes to get us thinking and overanalyzing [21:11] <DumbleDebbie> I doubt it Aislinn [21:11] <MirandaV> She seems very well planned that Jo [21:12] <Islwyn13> Yueah, I think Jo could plan that far ahead [21:12] <DumbleDebbie> Harry wasn't born at a solstice [21:12] <fawkes28> According to Dumbledore the Voldemort/Harry prophecy is significant only because Harry and Voldemort choose to make it so. Will anyone in Book 7 try to convince Harry or Voldemort to ignore the prophecy? What chance is there that either of them will actually do so? [21:12] <Islwyn13> she knows about how long it takes her to write a book... [21:12] <Poet> True - the books each end around June 21st [21:12] <JaneMarple9> jo's planned these books for years [21:12] <mollywobbles23> No chance at all [21:12] <Islwyn13> heck, they already know when movie 7 is coming out! :) [21:12] <Pellinore> slim to none [21:12] <fawkes28> I do not think that anyone could convince Voldemort to ignore it [21:12] <Alexk> no, they are too driven to kill eachother [21:12] <cbm> None at all [21:12] <HPFanatic> i don't think the prophecy is important anymore [21:12] <Poet> Ron or Hermione might try to convince Harry to act a certain way [21:12] <DumbleDebbie> I think they're each pretty committed to facing off [21:12] <ProngsPatronus> they will fulfill the Prophecy [21:12] <HPFanatic> the damage is done [21:12] <Islwyn13> I think Harry may want to step aside from it, but he knows LV won't, so he has to go on [21:12] <sdcurtis> Actually I thought the Prophecy was important only because Voldemor choose to make it important [21:12] <HPFanatic> yea they are bound to fulfill the prophecy now [21:12] <fawkes28> and if Voldemort doesn't ignore it than neither can Harry because Harry will never be able to fully live without LV chasing him [21:13] <mollywobbles23> It's like what DD said in HBP about even if there was no prophecy at all, Harry would still go after Voldy. [21:13] <Islwyn13> good point, HPF [21:13] <MirandaV> No way the prophecy will be fulfilled one way or another [21:13] <Islwyn13> it started the series of events that led to here, but now... [21:13] <fawkes28> It is only being fulfilled because they choose to fulfill it [21:13] <HPFanatic> thanks Isl13 [21:13] <Alexk> exactly fawkes [21:13] <fawkes28> right, isl [21:13] <MirandaV> That's what I thought sdc [21:13] <Poet> Dumbledore was very careful about explaining to Harry that he doesn't have to follow the prophecy, so I agree it will be their choice [21:13] <Aislinn> I think we may find that Harry will not strictly adhere to the Prophecy, as DD told him it was his choice whether he does or not [21:13] <Alexk> Voldemort will definitely never let it go [21:14] <Pellinore> agree [21:14] <JaneMarple9> I think Jo has known how book 7 will be written, even before the other six [21:14] <MirandaV> I don't think it's really Harry's choice, LV won't stop so he has to do something [21:14] <Theoriser> I can't see them not doing what the prophecy says they will, not because they want to follow the prophecy, but because they both want to finish each other off [21:14] <fawkes28> i siriusly cannot imagine one of the DE going up to Voldemort and telling him "just let it go" :lol: [21:14] <JaneMarple9> she must know the ending of it [21:14] <HPFanatic> yea, he did miss out what 15 years of his life for a prophecy! [21:14] <Islwyn13> it's Harry's choise HOW the prophecy is fulfilled, though [21:14] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [21:14] <HPFanatic> i'm not sure he'll give up now [21:14] <DumbleDebbie> but I think Harry will prevail via defense, not offense [21:14] <MirandaV> lol fawkes...exactly [21:14] <Poet> Which makes it likely that even if there was no prophecy that Voldemort will keep on trying to kill Harry in order to "protect" himself from the prophecy [21:14] <Aislinn> yes, islwyn, exactly [21:14] <MrMcGonagall> I think LV is convinced of the inerrancy of the prophecy, so he's going to keep pursuing Harry no matter what. [21:14] <MrMcGonagall> And Harry will have to fight back. [21:14] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [21:14] <mollywobbles23> precisely, Mr. M [21:14] <fawkes28> Jo has said that despite Neville having been a candidate for the prophecy it no longer refers to him in any way. Still, how do you think Neville might react if he finds out the prophecy in Book 7? [21:14] <Aislinn> and he is not going to go in and try to AK LV because the prophecy says that he has to kill him [21:14] <MirandaV> I agree MrM, [21:15] <Poet> If someone is trying to kill you and they won't stop, it's likely one of the two of you will die. [21:15] <mollywobbles23> you're my guru [21:15] <Islwyn13> oh, good question... [21:15] <HPFanatic> i think he will be happy he's not the boy! :) [21:15] <sdcurtis> yeah [21:15] <DumbleDebbie> I'm sure he'd wonder "What if" [21:15] <MirandaV> I think so to HP [21:15] <DumbleDebbie> how could you not? [21:15] <ProfessorPete> Well I am going, thanks for the brain food :) bye [21:15] <Islwyn13> yeah, definitely [21:15] <MrMcGonagall> That would a be a bit mind-blowing for anyone. [21:15] <Poet> I think Neville would be even more determined to help Harry succeed. [21:15] <mollywobbles23> Relieved and definitely think "what if?" [21:15] <DumbleDebbie> bye prf [21:15] <DumbleDebbie> *prof pete [21:16] <Pellinore> Possibly bring him closer to Harry ... makes me think Neville's not going to live now bah :P [21:16] *** ProfessorPete has quit [Bye] [21:16] <MirandaV> i think Neville won't let anything stop him from assisting Harry any way he can [21:16] <HPFanatic> i think neville will help harry, but neville is not the type of person that could take so much pressure [21:16] <JaneMarple9> i think it will make him stronger [21:16] <JaneMarple9> and help him find his own niche [21:16] <ProngsPatronus> I think it may deepen the friendship between the two of them [21:16] <MrMcGonagall> I think it will strengthen Neville's resolve. He'll suddenly understand why his parents were tortured. [21:16] <Alexk> so....that means neville's mother would've sacrificed "herself" for "her son"? [21:16] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [21:16] <DumbleDebbie> yes PP, they definitely have been linked since they were babies [21:16] <MirandaV> Neville's gotten better with pressure in the last couple books HBF [21:16] <Poet> We know Neville still has a role to play, though not directly having to do with the prophecy. I agree it will strength their friendship [21:16] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [21:16] <Aislinn> Neville is already quite driven, in a similar way to Harry, as he also suffered directly at LV's, or his surrogate's hands [21:17] <Pellinore> exactly Prongs and make it that more personall if he gets killed. [21:17] <MirandaV> Not neccisarily Alex [21:17] <DumbleDebbie> she may have Alex, but Voldy probably wouldn't have given her the choice to stand aside [21:17] <Aislinn> He was going to be a part of the final battle one way or the other, even without hearing of being the might-have-been [21:17] <MirandaV> what kind of spelling was that...lol [21:17] <fawkes28> We're going to look at each part of the famous Voldemort/Harry prophecy separately. First the easy part, which was overheard by Snape and told to Voldemort: "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies..." What might 'vanquish' mean? [21:17] <dumbleydore18> I think Neville would be pretty upset or freak out. I also think that Neville might come to Harry's aid because if it involved both of them then they are in it together [21:17] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [21:17] <mollywobbles23> to conquer [21:17] <Poet> Send him to some other realm [21:17] <HPFanatic> yea, to defeat [21:18] <MirandaV> Exactly Molly, doesn't have to mean kill [21:18] <fawkes28> to get rid of [21:18] <HPFanatic> not necessairly to kill though [21:18] <harryfreak359> To defeat...but not kill I don't think [21:18] <cbm> I think that Voldemort will have all pieces of his soul destroyed and be left like a dementor victim [21:18] <mollywobbles23> I wrote a rejected essay on it...lol [21:18] <MrMcGonagall> I think it means Hary isn't going to have to use the AK to destroy LV. [21:18] <sdcurtis> To weaken him perhaps [21:18] <fawkes28> right otherwise it would have said kill [21:18] <fawkes28> Jo chooses her words very carefully [21:18] <Aislinn> right, Mr M, I completely agree [21:18] <Poet> To make it so Voldemort can never hurt or kill anyone again - however that may be accomplished [21:18] <ProngsPatronus> vanquish means defeat [21:18] <MrMcGonagall> Harry won't have to commit murder for this to happen. [21:18] <ProngsPatronus> to make powerless [21:18] <Pellinore> wack, kill, snuff, bury, bag, etc, ;o [21:18] <DumbleDebbie> I'm with you on that point Mr M [21:18] *** Breanna has joined #lounge [21:19] <Aislinn> vanquish is not the same as kill, but is what Prongs mentions [21:19] <HPFanatic> i don't know if harry will do the AK [21:19] <DumbleDebbie> that's what I meant about defense rather than offense from Harry [21:19] <MirandaV> I don't think it's in Harry to AK someone, he's just too good [21:19] <Alexk> maybe harry will vanquish the "dark lord", but not tom marvolo riddle?......(not sure how that would work though) [21:19] <HPFanatic> yea [21:19] <mollywobbles23> ding ding! Alex! [21:19] <dumbleydore18> Dictionary.com Vanquish: to conquer or subdue by superior force, as in battle. to defeat in any contest or conflict; be victorious over. to overcome or overpower. [21:19] <HPFanatic> but maybe someone else will AK him! [21:19] <Pellinore> if Harry only turns LV into a muggle i'll be really disappointed [21:19] <Aislinn> doing an AK would be the antithesis of his greatest power, which is supposed to be what will help him vanquish LV [21:19] <MirandaV> Like in Charmed when they kill Balthezar, but not what's his face Pheobes BF [21:20] <HPFanatic> maybe snape will strike the last blow [21:20] <Poet> I like the term to subue [21:20] <mollywobbles23> I know what you're saying Miranda [21:20] <Poet> subdue [21:20] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [21:20] <cbm> I think that turning him into a Muggle that is thrown into an insane asylum would be OK [21:20] <HPFanatic> i dare say he would love to if he really were loyal to DD because he was forced to kill Dd because of the stupid UV [21:20] <JaneMarple9> testing 123 [21:20] *** Evreka has joined #lounge [21:20] <mollywobbles23> can see you Jane [21:20] <JaneMarple9> yep back - whats question? [21:20] <Evreka> Hi [21:20] <fawkes28> well once harry has destroyed all of the horcruxes, he will have exposed voldemort and made him human again - and it will be easier to vanquish him [21:20] <JaneMarple9> hi evreka! [21:20] <MirandaV> In the show charmed Pheobe's boyfriend was half demon, they vanquished the demon half leaving the human half behind and leaving him alive [21:20] <Evreka> What's the topic? [21:20] <fawkes28> going to move on to another one, Jane [21:20] <Alexk> is there a way to vanquish someone's power's though?....we've never heard of it, but i'm sure it's possible [21:20] <harryfreak359> Hi Ev! [21:21] <Pellinore> what does vanquish mean in the prophecy [21:21] <fawkes28> The Prophecy, Evreka [21:21] <mollywobbles23> we're talking about the word "vanquish" in the prophecy [21:21] <dumbleydore18> I dont think a wizard can be turned into a muggle, that does not make sense. You are a wizard or not a wizard [21:21] <Evreka> Ah thanks [21:21] <HPFanatic> yea, all you have to do is get the horxes [21:21] <fawkes28> This already happened: "and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal" Is Harry still growing into his role as equal, and how might we see more of that development in Book 7? [21:21] <cbm> But I do not think that Tom is like Darth Vader and has any good in him [21:21] <harryfreak359> I think he is definitely [21:21] <Pellinore> anything is possible with JkR & a book about magic imho [21:21] <Evreka> Difficult question [21:21] <JaneMarple9> harry is growing stronger than Voldemort [21:21] <Evreka> lol Pelinore [21:21] <mollywobbles23> Yeah, I think he's still growing into an equal. Remember how many times Harry has had to face Voldy in some form over the years. [21:21] <JaneMarple9> after ever trial he is given [21:22] <fawkes28> No, I think Harry is already considered his equal when he defeated Voldemort the first time [21:22] <DumbleDebbie> when Harry is standing over Voldy's dead corpse [21:22] <Aislinn> I think that Harry needs to recognize that he can use the same power that LV did in tricking him into going to the DoM [21:22] <MrMcGonagall> I think it may mean simply, "The one the Dark Lord chooses." LV picked Harry as the #1 threat. [21:22] <mollywobbles23> It's not going to be about luck anymore. [21:22] <HPFanatic> yea, i think so too [21:22] <MirandaV> Oh, I definitely thing Harry is growing stronger and stronger, he's already powerful, he just needs to learn to harness that power [21:22] <Evreka> oooh, nice idea, Aislinn [21:22] <Aislinn> and gave him some powers, and the connection [21:22] <JaneMarple9> :excited: thats the part I can't wait for Debbie...when Voldie's dead! [21:22] <HPFanatic> rememer when Dd and LV met after 10 years, Dd said you know everything about only a certain type of magic. but you are completely ignorant of another more important one [21:22] <fawkes28> I don't think you can ever compare Harry and Voldemort as equals in their actions - they are in two separate worlds when it comes to that [21:23] <Poet> Hopefully Harry's learned all the right lessons. The fact that he says he's not returning to Hogwarts makes me believe that even if he does for some reason, he's learned all his teachers can teach him for now. [21:23] <Alexk> Voldemort marked him as his equal, and considers him his equal...and i believe that is the only reason Harry is his equal...because the prophecy tells Voldy that that's true [21:23] <fawkes28> Harry is far greater to Voldemort in his actions [21:23] <HPFanatic> so harry's ability to love will balance LV's inability [21:23] <harryfreak359> Yes, I agree Fawkes [21:23] <MirandaV> I agree fawkes, it's like pure evil against good, the eternal struggle [21:23] <JaneMarple9> they are total opposites - good versus evil [21:23] *** Evreka has quit [Bye] [21:23] <MrMcGonagall> I think it may simply speak from LV's perspective. Not that Harry is in fact his equal, but that LV will see him that way. [21:23] <dumbleydore18> I think LVwas preparing Harry all along. Snape being one of LV's past minions was helping Harry in potions. Makeing Harry do everything over and over to make the potion perfect, because in the real world nothing can be done twice. Also LV was preparing him during all the time that Harry met up with him. The biggest turning point wasat the end of GoF [21:23] <JaneMarple9> but good will succeed in the end [21:23] <fawkes28> Because Voldemort unknowingly marked Harry as his equal does that mean that Harry is the only one who can stop Voldemort? As soon as Voldemort is mortal again, anyone could kill him right? [21:24] *** Evreka has joined #lounge [21:24] <HPFanatic> not in th real world! [21:24] <MrMcGonagall> I think so [21:24] <MirandaV> Well, somewhat, things will never be all good, that's life, but severe evil can be....wait for it....vanquished! [21:24] <HPFanatic> yea [21:24] <JaneMarple9> perhaps [21:24] <Evreka> grrr pressed something bad [21:24] <MrMcGonagall> I don't know that it will work out that way, though [21:24] <DumbleDebbie> evreka! [21:24] <Evreka> Hi! [21:24] <fawkes28> Well, I don't know if Jo would set it all up to have someone else kill him or defeat him [21:24] <Aislinn> true fawkes [21:24] <JaneMarple9> perhaps peter pettigrew will kill his master? [21:24] <DumbleDebbie> glad you made it [21:24] <HPFanatic> no way [21:24] <fawkes28> There is something that we don't know that it has to be Harry [21:24] <Poet> I think anyone could defeat Voldemort, but Voldemort is going out of his way to confront Harry, so his downfall will likely happen at Harry's hand or when Harry is in attendance [21:25] <HPFanatic> Pettigrew is too scared [21:25] <Theoriser> well it's going to be pretty hard to kill him once he's mortal again [21:25] <Evreka> Thanks :D [21:25] <Alexk> I think with the proper knowledge anyone could vanquish Voldemort....it's the fear that stops people...imo [21:25] <MrMcGonagall> I think LV's downfall will come at Harry's hand, in a way. [21:25] <cbm> Maybe, but Voldemort may have more protections than just Horcruxes that only Harry can break [21:25] <Theoriser> so I don't think it could just be done by anyone, I think Harry is the only one who can [21:25] <Evreka> I agree Poet [21:25] <MirandaV> I think LV will be defeated by Harry, and obviously not just anyone can defeat LV, that's been proven [21:25] <ProngsPatronus> it is Love--and Harry has that ability more than anyone--so it will be Harry that vanquishes the Dark Lord [21:25] <DumbleDebbie> I think Harry is the only one with the love capacity tto perform the act that needs to be done to kill Voldy [21:25] <fawkes28> Remember Dumbledore said that there are things worse than death. It has to be Harry in the final battle with Voldemort - it can't be anyone else [21:25] <JaneMarple9> ah but dumbledore siad harry would be glad he let peter go free in book 3 [21:25] <Pellinore> I would expect that anyone could finish LV off but it would be very unusual for a non-hero to finish LV... these are his biographies ;) [21:25] <dumbleydore18> i like that idea of Peter kiling LV, maybe that has to do with the fear [21:25] <Evreka> we've had a septology on Harry versus LV, Snape and Draco [21:25] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M, but it wouldn't surprise me if LV manages to do in himself, after Harry destroys the Horcruxes [21:25] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [21:26] <Poet> I agree - the Hero's Journey is one example of how it is the Hero who faces the Enemy alone at the end. [21:26] <MirandaV> Harry...the Light Lord [21:26] *** cbm has joined #lounge [21:26] <Evreka> lol [21:26] <dumbleydore18> lol miranda [21:26] <fawkes28> exactly Poet- Jo has set it it up this way thus far [21:26] <Pellinore> Peter may help but he's way to cowed in my opinion to kill LV [21:26] <Evreka> Much better than Dark Lord [21:26] <fawkes28> "But he will have power the Dark Lord knows not..." Does this mean that Harry will become MORE than Voldemort's equal? What kind of advantage might Harry's 'love power' give him in the final battles? [21:26] <JaneMarple9> yes in my mind harry has to defeat voldemort in the end [21:27] <Pellinore> LV was a helpless baby and still able to keep Peter in awe [21:27] <mollywobbles23> The strength to carry on [21:27] <JaneMarple9> hmmm a love power [21:27] <MirandaV> Love gives you all the power in the world [21:27] <harryfreak359> I think it may give him the power to give LV the fate worse than death [21:27] <mollywobbles23> A reason to live, a reason to fight, maybe a reason to sacrifice [21:27] <cbm> Maybe Voldemort's power is evil and that balances against Harry's love [21:27] <fawkes28> love conquers all :) [21:27] <Aislinn> I think that LV has never understood the power of Love, and it is this, not AK's or other traditional means of killing, that Harry has to draw on [21:27] <Evreka> No I think it means that Harry's ability to love stops him from being attracted by Voldemorts powers [21:27] <Aislinn> there are so many ways he could do that, though [21:27] <JaneMarple9> but harry will become even more powerful on his way to the deathly hallows [21:27] <DumbleDebbie> He's got more power than Voldy IMO [21:27] <Poet> Harry's connection to Voldemort's mind would have been an advantage as well, but Voldemort now knows about that. Hopefully Harry can find a way around the occlumency Voldemort's doing. [21:27] <DumbleDebbie> pure power vs. dark power [21:27] <MirandaV> I agree Debbie [21:28] <MrMcGonagall> I think Harry is already more than LV's equal in the things that matter most. [21:28] <Alexk> yes aislinn [21:28] <DumbleDebbie> yes Mr M well said [21:28] <fawkes28> i think so too, Mr. M [21:28] <harryfreak359> Yes, Mr.M [21:28] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M, and it is why he has managed to escape so many times [21:28] <MirandaV> I don't think Harry will ever be good at occlemency, but he will find a way to use his feelings against LV, I agree Mr M [21:28] <Evreka> Yeah - but those qualities will they help Harry in a fight? [21:28] <JaneMarple9> harry will find more strength and power if he gets to godrics hollow [21:28] <Pellinore> True. figureing out how to use Love as a weapon is quite qaundry [21:29] <Islwyn13> I think that might be the point...LV won't be finally defeated in a fight [21:29] <Aislinn> its not going to be a traditional fight; evreka [21:29] <mollywobbles23> "every tool is a weapon/ if you hold it right" [21:29] <ProngsPatronus> active love is a terrible weapon [21:29] <MirandaV> When LV invades his mind he will find a surprise ambush [21:29] <fawkes28> it is going to be something we know not [21:29] <Evreka> Well something's not going to be traditional - but yes I think we'll see more fight scenes [21:29] <Aislinn> or harry will be able to invade LV's mind, miranda [21:29] <Poet> Harry may not be good at Occlumency himself, but he broke into Snape's mind and I think Harry could break into Voldemort's as well, and send some love his way :wink: [21:29] <MrMcGonagall> LV is looking for a traditional one-on-one battle, but that's not the way it's really going to fall out. [21:29] <Islwyn13> oh,yes, there will be fight scenes... [21:29] <fawkes28> What does "either must die at the hand of the other" mean? Does either mean both of them or just one of them? [21:30] <Aislinn> there will be fights, definitely, but the climax will not be a showdown type fight between Harry and LV [21:30] <Islwyn13> but I don't think that's how Harry will ultimately defeat LV [21:30] <Evreka> we've had one in OOTP and one in HBP surely we'd get at least one in DH too [21:30] <Alexk> i agree mrm [21:30] <MirandaV> Yes, I think that also Aislinn and Poet [21:30] <mollywobbles23> One [21:30] <Evreka> lol Poet [21:30] <JaneMarple9> that could be interesting aislinn, if harry could read voldies mind [21:30] <harryfreak359> Me either Islwyn [21:30] <Aislinn> I think it means one at the hand of the other [21:30] <MirandaV> He will use his mind to weaken LV [21:30] <fawkes28> I think it means one of them [21:30] <JaneMarple9> scary...but interesting [21:30] <Aislinn> and it could mean sacrifice on Harry's part [21:30] <mollywobbles23> To phrase it another way: Either Voldy must die at Harry's hand or Harry at Voldy's [21:30] <harryfreak359> I think it means that that one of them has to die, but not both [21:30] <Aislinn> :( [21:30] <dumbleydore18> I think the love Lily had will act as a sheild from the hexes and curses. The love of Lily protected Harry from the Killing curse, one of the worst. What else will it protect him from? [21:30] <Poet> I hope it means just one of them must die. [21:30] <Islwyn13> I think so, too...one will live, one will die [21:30] <Alexk> "the other" is neville, jk, that theory's far gone [21:30] <DumbleDebbie> one of them will die as a direct result of a choice of the other [21:30] <MrMcGonagall> Somewhat ambiguous, open to interpretation. [21:30] <Islwyn13> well, it says "either must die"...either one, or the other, not both [21:30] <Pellinore> could turn into a Matrix ending which would be a real bummer [21:31] <ProngsPatronus> one of the powers left to LV is possession [21:31] <Evreka> Well english is not my first language so I shouldn't talk... but I think one of them has to die, although it could be either of them [21:31] <fawkes28> Aislinn, if it was a sacrifice on Harry's part then it would have to mean both of then, right? [21:31] <DumbleDebbie> I'm hoping for Harry to have a phoenix moment post-sacrifice [21:31] <ProngsPatronus> what if there were some mental attempt by the both of them at the same time? [21:31] * mollywobbles23 wishes she had actually watched the last Matrix movie... [21:31] <JaneMarple9> alek, i wouldn't be too sure. Neville is still a stong character in book 7 [21:31] <Alexk> "at the hand", doesn't necessarily mean they will directly kill each other [21:31] <fawkes28> You are right, evreka - at least one of them has to die, IMO [21:31] <MirandaV> LV has to die, what kind of ending is and the world became amassed in evil and death and they all lived miserabley ever after [21:31] <ProngsPatronus> would there be a sort of mental Priori Incantatem? [21:31] <Aislinn> yeah, I don't know how Jo would do it, debbie, given her words on death being final, but that is what I'm thinking too [21:31] <Islwyn13> I don't think the prophecy refers to Neville at all, now... [21:31] <mollywobbles23> Yeah, "at the hand" is an idiom [21:31] <Islwyn13> only to Harry and LV [21:32] <JaneMarple9> voldemort has to die....he's destoryed enough lifes [21:32] <Evreka> exactly [21:32] <harryfreak359> No,the prophecy says one must die, but the prophecy does not have to be ful-filled [21:32] <Aislinn> very true hf [21:32] <Evreka> yeah, unless the "worse than death" will materialise [21:32] <Islwyn13> well, except that they can't coexist [21:32] <MrMcGonagall> Good point, hf [21:32] <harryfreak359> besides one will die some day before the other, the prohpecy doesn't give a tiem [21:32] <Aislinn> and that is is where Harry's choice may come in, not to follow it [21:32] <Islwyn13> LV will never let Harry live, [21:32] <MirandaV> well, it also says neither can live while the other survives...so I think one must die [21:32] <Islwyn13> so LV has to be disposed of [21:32] <fawkes28> too true, isl [21:32] <Aislinn> but he may destroy himself [21:32] <Evreka> lol hf [21:32] <dumbleydore18> I am a believer in that Harry and Voldy will both die. Harry in the sense of "partial death" and Voldy completely dead. Voldy is infact parially dead already because he gave up so many pieces of his soul to make the Horcri. I think Harry will partially die to defeat the partial dead Voldy [21:33] <fawkes28> What does "for neither can live while the other survives" mean? How might it come to pass? [21:33] *** daretodream2 has joined #lounge [21:33] <MrMcGonagall> LV does what DD told Harry not to do . . . put too much store by the prophecy. [21:33] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, dtd2! [21:33] <ProngsPatronus> there is a difference in survival and living [21:33] <DumbleDebbie> Harry can't have a normal life so long as Voldy remains [21:33] <daretodream2> hi [21:33] <DumbleDebbie> hi d2d [21:33] <fawkes28> I take this part simply - neither one of them will be happy until the other one is gone [21:33] <mollywobbles23> Harry can not go on with life as long as Voldy keeps coming after him [21:33] <cbm> I agree Prongs [21:33] <harryfreak359> It means that while they are both around, they cannot survive with the thought of it...not just living [21:33] <Aislinn> I think that has been true for both for years now - neither is free to live, as they are under the threat of the prophecy and each other [21:33] <ProngsPatronus> it has a great deal to do with the quality of that continued life [21:33] <harryfreak359> yes Prongs [21:33] <Evreka> I think in reality it means that LV is set to destroy Harry so to live Harry must kill him [21:34] <MirandaV> I think neither, but especially Harry can live the full life they want while the other is alive. Harry can't have a somewaht normal life and LV can't do things without looking over his shoulder for his defeat [21:34] <JaneMarple9> i am still thinking it refers to neville and harry. but probably more voldemort and harry. it means that one has to destory the other [21:34] <fawkes28> I dont think there is any hidden meaning - LV will not be truly happy until harry is out of the way and vice versa [21:34] <MirandaV> yes Prongs [21:34] <Alexk> lv will never be "truly happy" though [21:34] <Evreka> true [21:34] <mollywobbles23> At this point, even if Voldy left Harry alone, he's still a threat to the world, so Harry must keep trying to "vanquish" him [21:34] <Evreka> but does he realise that? [21:35] <JaneMarple9> he doesn't know what happy is [21:35] <MirandaV> LV doesn't know what happiness is, he has a great knawing hole for a heart, that's his problem [21:35] <Evreka> exactly [21:35] <fawkes28> he thinks he will be happy if harry is out of the way [21:35] <Evreka> no but he think he will be safe - not the same thing [21:35] <fawkes28> Since Voldemort is immortal and Harry is connected to him, are there any scientific definitions that might say they currently don't "live" in the normal sense? If Harry accidentally has a piece of Voldie's splintered soul attached to his forehead, does Harry have to die for Voldemort to live or be mortal again? [21:35] * mollywobbles23 pictures Voldy laughing : "Mwahaha" [21:35] <dumbleydore18> I like that thought. Harry can't live a fullfilled life of a child, teen, or adult unless LV is dead. It makes sense to me. But then there is the lurking thought that Harry was really die, as in not come back to life, which is the main meaning of the prophecy. [21:35] <Pellinore> Probably in LV's twisted sense of reality, Power = Happiness [21:35] <MirandaV> He's wrong, he'll never be happy and killing people and being evil isn't going to make him happy either [21:36] <harryfreak359> No I don't think so. [21:36] <Aislinn> I don't think so [21:36] <mollywobbles23> No [21:36] <MirandaV> I don't subscribe to the Harry is a horcrux theory, so I don't think so [21:36] <Evreka> passing out on this one - Harry is not a Horcrux - feel free to laugh at me when the book's out :lol: [21:36] <JaneMarple9> he doesn't know what happiness is [21:36] <Islwyn13> I agree, Harry isn't a horcrux [21:36] *** sdcurtis has quit [Bye] [21:36] <Alexk> no, horcruxes being destroyed has never seemed to have a direct effect on harry [21:36] <mollywobbles23> I'm with you, Evreka [21:37] <harryfreak359> lol I agree Ev [21:37] <Aislinn> I agree that he's not [21:37] <DumbleDebbie> Harry is not a horcrux [21:37] <mollywobbles23> I wish we knew how horcruxes are made [21:37] <cbm> I think that Harry only has some of Voldemort's poweres, not a part of his soul [21:37] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think Harry is a Horcrux--because he is full of active love, which would preclude continued existence by a horcrux [21:37] <JaneMarple9> and i can't see harry being a horcrux...but perhaps something belonging to Harry is [21:37] <Evreka> me too mollywobbles [21:37] <MirandaV> A part of LV's soul could never survive in Harry, he can't even possess him for more than 5 seconds let alone a piece of him live there for 16 years! [21:37] <Alexk> interesting pp [21:37] <Aislinn> exactly prongs [21:38] <cbm> I agree Prongs! [21:38] <Pellinore> dunno, up to what JkR wants to do with the series.. she could make any outcome sound plauseable at this point between Harry and LV [21:38] <MirandaV> Yes, prongs [21:38] <Evreka> Go Miranda! [21:38] <fawkes28> Though Harry has had key moments when he alone had to battle Voldemort, in each book (and even as a baby) he's always had help along the way. What role might Harry's friends & family have in helping him to survive the events foretold in the prophecy? [21:38] * mollywobbles23 eats chocolate at the thought of Harry dying...Lupin would be proud [21:38] <JaneMarple9> his spectacles? :) I am thinking harry will get something on his seventeenth birthday [21:38] <Evreka> none [21:38] <ProngsPatronus> they give him a reason to continue his fight--and a reason to live on after [21:38] <harryfreak359> I think they will play a great part, in just mentally supporting him [21:38] <Islwyn13> I'm really afraid Ron will do something (Iike he did in book 1) that will make everyone think he's dead [21:38] <Islwyn13> though he won't be [21:39] <Evreka> but they'll help him get to the Horcruxes and destroy them [21:39] <JaneMarple9> they will be suppotive of harrys decisions [21:39] <Aislinn> Yes, Prongs, nicely put [21:39] <Theoriser> I don't know if they would help him fight Voldy, but Ron and Hermione will support him all the way [21:39] <mollywobbles23> I think they'll have a huge role in getting him to the point where he can beat Voldy [21:39] <DumbleDebbie> I think they'll have large supporting roles, but the final confrontatino has to be Harry's [21:39] <MirandaV> Oh, they will definitely be important, after all the fact that he has all the friends and family is what makes him so powerful, or part of it anyway [21:39] <Evreka> Agree Prongs [21:39] <Alexk> yes prongs [21:39] <Alexk> something voldemort doesn't have [21:39] <JaneMarple9> but i feel one of the trio has to die in book 7 :( [21:39] <fawkes28> I think it is Harry's choice to get people to help him - which makes all the difference in the world. Voldemort doesn't let anyone truly help him like harry does [21:39] <daretodream2> agree prongs [21:39] <dumbleydore18> His friends will rally more wizards and witches and other beings to help. But it is primarially Harry's doing to fight LV. There is also the nagging feeling that I have that Harry won't be able to defeat LV...what if?? [21:39] <Islwyn13> no, no, no! None of the trio has to die! I won't have it! [21:39] <MirandaV> Agree, Prongs [21:39] <Evreka> but Jo has made certain Harry will stand alone - no parents - no Sirius - no Albus :cry: [21:39] <mollywobbles23> oh no no no no [21:39] <Islwyn13> as if I had any power over it :) [21:40] <mollywobbles23> no Trio dying [21:40] <Pellinore> I would be extreemly disappointed if she has Harry do everything solo.. I know she said that the Hero has to go it alone at some point but that's garbage.. Teamwork makes you stronger. [21:40] <MirandaV> No deadtrio, sacriledge! [21:40] <Aislinn> Yes, fawkes, I think that Harry draws people to him who choose to help him, because they are drawn to his special qualities and character [21:40] <mollywobbles23> blasphemy! lol [21:40] <JaneMarple9> :D sorry Islwyn and all! Just this feeling! :D [21:40] <Islwyn13> they will help him get t ohis final confrontation...that last "battle" is what Harry will have to do alone [21:40] <cbm> No on Trio dying, but I said the same thing about Sirius, so we could be wrong [21:40] <Aislinn> there will be big battles, with all of his allies involved [21:40] <fawkes28> The trio certainly does have a lot of experience and balance each other well and depend on each other to get through different stages of the battles [21:40] <JaneMarple9> i want it to be wrong too [21:40] <MirandaV> The battle, the final battle is Harry's to fight I agree [21:40] <Islwyn13> Oh, I'm not bashing you, Jane :) [21:41] * mollywobbles23 will throw her book across the room if one of the Trio dies...will then apologize to book because she thinks they have feelings [21:41] <harryfreak359> I agree AIslinn [21:41] <Islwyn13> it's a valid theory, I just do'nt like it :) [21:41] <Aislinn> and according to the Hero Journey, he may need a Rescue from without(from family/friends) after he vanquishes Voldy [21:41] <Evreka> I wonder if we'll know when we read the book what deaths she changed? [21:41] <Alexk> i don't think ron and hermione will be there for the final battle....harry wouldn't risk their lives like that [21:41] <JaneMarple9> :D nor do i Islwyn! [21:41] <MirandaV> Me neither, just havin' fun and I don't like it either...hehe [21:41] <fawkes28> As of July 2005, Jo won't answer whether Voldemort will find out the full contents of the prophecy. Do you think Voldemort will find out the full prophecy, and if so how? If he were to find out, how would might it change his actions in Book 7? [21:41] <Islwyn13> yeah, Aislinn, that's how I see it... [21:41] <dumbleydore18> Pellinore I think what Jo is saying is that Harry will have help in fighting the Death Eaters and other bad beings but it all comes down to Harry vs. Voldy, one on one [21:41] <ProngsPatronus> I think the rest of the trio will help him find and destroy the horcruxes--but the final step has to be Harry's--he has to choose to go to the end [21:41] <Evreka> Exactly Aislinn [21:41] <DumbleDebbie> hopefully she'll tell us after Evreka [21:41] <Poet> Right, we've seen that happen quite a bit Aislinn - rescue from without [21:41] <Islwyn13> he may be on the verge of death, but someone will pull him back [21:41] <Islwyn13> Ron, Hermione, Ginny, maybe even his parents [21:42] <JaneMarple9> i think he will eventually learn the prophercy yes [21:42] *** FernDandylion has joined #lounge [21:42] <Islwyn13> As PP said, they will be his reason to live [21:42] <Aislinn> he will not learn in time to help himself [21:42] <MrMcGonagall> I think he will somehow. My guess is that it's possible to extract it from Trelawney's sunconscious memory. [21:42] <Aislinn> yes islwyn [21:42] <ProngsPatronus> LV has always discounted the power of love [21:42] <DumbleDebbie> hi fern [21:42] <Evreka> I hope so Debbie [21:42] *** sdcurtis has joined #lounge [21:42] <MirandaV> I think his connection with his loved ones will pull him from the brink of death [21:42] <Poet> I'm surprised that Voldemort gave up on trying to hear the prophecy after being so determined in Book 5 [21:42] <mollywobbles23> I don't think they will change his actions because everything is already in motion [21:42] <Evreka> How would it help him? [21:42] <FernDandylion> Hi! [21:42] <ProngsPatronus> if he finds out the rest of the Prophecy, then he will kill those dear to Harry, to weaken him [21:42] <DumbleDebbie> puts Sybill in big time jeopardy [21:42] <dumbleydore18> VOldy will capture Trelawney or threaten her in some way and she will end up spilling the beans as they say. [21:42] <fawkes28> Even if he does find out the whole prophecy, it will not matter. he will do something to hurt himself anyway [21:42] <mollywobbles23> hi, fern [21:42] <Islwyn13> He'll do that, anyway, I think, PP [21:42] <Islwyn13> or try to [21:43] <Poet> If he heard the prophecy he might be even more determined to kill Harry [21:43] <MirandaV> He's already don't that though Prongs, I don't think that will really change anything [21:43] <Evreka> He didn't know that Albus had it recorded [21:43] <ProngsPatronus> I mean serious collateral damage [21:43] <dumbleydore18> Evreka he sis becuase Snape over heard [21:43] <sdcurtis> He'll probably be kicking himself that he didn't hear the rest of it [21:43] <Poet> He also might be more cautious. He currently doesn't know Harry has power that Voldemort knows no [21:43] <Islwyn13> again, I think he's gonna do that anyway [21:43] <dumbleydore18> *did [21:43] <Poet> *not [21:43] <Islwyn13> DD is gone... [21:43] <ProngsPatronus> so far, every one of those others had their own resoans to be fighting LV This post has been edited by Theoriser: Jan 7 2007, 05:27 PM |
|
|
|
|
Jan 7 2007, 05:28 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor Posts: 793 Joined: 10:44am September 2, 2005 Location: Buried under a mountain of homework |
[21:43] <Islwyn13> LV will go all out
[21:43] <MirandaV> Yeah, maybe, I don't think he will find out though [21:43] <Evreka> Snape didn't hear all of it [21:43] <fawkes28> A classic mistake by main characters is that because of either pride or lack of information they misinterpret a prophecy's meaning. Do you think Harry lacks any information that is important for him to properly interpret the prophecy? [21:44] <Evreka> how can he know Albus did [21:44] <MirandaV> He doesn't even know that Harry knows it all [21:44] <dumbleydore18> All prophecies end up going into the Prophecy room right? [21:44] <DumbleDebbie> possibly [21:44] *** hrh7 has joined #lounge [21:44] <harryfreak359> I think that DD tried to provide him with as much info as possible, let's hope he knows enough :) [21:44] <Aislinn> I don't think he lacks any information, but I don't think he fully understands the strength he possesses [21:44] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye] [21:44] <Evreka> no, I think Albus interpreted it for him [21:44] <DumbleDebbie> sometimes I do wonder if Dumbledore told him the whole thing or if he cut part of it off [21:44] <MirandaV> No, I don't think Harry lacks any info...but younever know [21:44] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [21:44] <mollywobbles23> He still doesn't quite understand the power of love [21:44] <Aislinn> That will be his biggest task in the last book - to understand his gift of Love [21:44] <MirandaV> I agree Aislinn [21:44] <ProngsPatronus> I think that he does not understand the strengths he has [21:44] <sdcurtis> I think the mistake was by Voldemort Dumbledore made sure Harry has the essential info [21:44] <mollywobbles23> He still scoffs slightly at the idea of it helping him defeat Voldemort. [21:44] <MrMcGonagall> No, I'm not sure he does. I don't think the prophecy as a prophecy is as important to Harry as it is to LV, anyway, if that makes sense. [21:44] <Poet> i don't think anyone can really properly interpret that prophecy. I think they'll only understand it fully when it is over and done with [21:44] <Evreka> I'm sure there's more to why he trusted Snape, Debbie [21:45] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, Aislinn [21:45] <MirandaV> yes, yes to everyone [21:45] <ProngsPatronus> Harry is still "just Harry" in some ways [21:45] <MirandaV> definitely Prongs [21:45] <DumbleDebbie> that's a mystery I really want explained Evreka [21:45] <fawkes28> Harry is not arrogant and makes his own choices - Harry is also not dependent on the prophecy like Voldemort is [21:45] <cbm> I think that Voldmort will underestimate Harry and will not realize the danger he represents, [21:45] <Poet> True fawkes - I totally agree that Harry doesn't know how to use whatever "power" he has yet. [21:45] <Aislinn> right prongs [21:45] <Evreka> no the biggest task will be to find and destroy Horcruxes in secret [21:45] <ProngsPatronus> he has to get over that for a while--heal the damage he has suffered [21:45] <Theoriser> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. Don't forget to vote in the latest poll for the next P3 chat, here: http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry1055911[/b [21:45] <dumbleydore18> Do all prophecies get recorded? and put into the room of Prophecies? I see Prophecies as being some kind of will in tesitmate [21:45] <Islwyn13> we don't know [21:45] <Islwyn13> not enough info [21:46] <fawkes28> A lot of a prophecy's fulfillment depends on human behavior, which can be unpredictable. Voldemort is very powerful, very nasty, and mostly predictable. Even if he hears the whole prophecy he likely will assume he can come out on top. Will his pride be his downfall? [21:46] <Islwyn13> I think they all do, though [21:46] <MirandaV> I think a big part of Book 7 will be Harry learn to use his power [21:46] <fawkes28> Oh, yes! [21:46] <Islwyn13> always! [21:46] <MrMcGonagall> Oh, definitely. [21:46] <daretodream2> yes [21:46] <Islwyn13> yes, LV's pride will be his downfall, at least in part [21:46] <MirandaV> Oh yeah [21:46] <fawkes28> He is going to fall on his own sword [21:46] <JaneMarple9> harry has a lot of pride :( [21:46] <Aislinn> yes, no question about it [21:46] <Poet> Totally. Voldemort is determined to win in whatever way he can - he assumes he can. [21:46] <ProngsPatronus> hubris--the classic overestimation of one's self [21:46] <Islwyn13> not like LV does, Jane, I don't thin [21:46] <JaneMarple9> that could be his downfall [21:46] <cbm> I think that Voldmort will underestimate Harry and will not realize the danger he represents, [21:46] <mollywobbles23> oh yeah [21:46] *** kaelgirl has joined #lounge [21:46] <MirandaV> I don't think so Jane, not in the way of thinking himself invincible [21:47] <Evreka> What if Voldemort tries to create more Horcruxes and end up loosing his soul completely? [21:47] <fawkes28> it doesn't even matter if he hears the whole prophecy, his pride will no doubts get in the way [21:47] <DumbleDebbie> hi kaelgirl [21:47] <mollywobbles23> Like Icarus [21:47] <Aislinn> He understands nothing of Harry's tools, so will not fight effectively against them [21:47] <dumbleydore18> I think all prophecies lack some sort of knowledge and so Voldemorts lack of knowledge will lead to his misunderstanding turned down fall [21:47] <MrMcGonagall> He will underestimate the powers at Harry's disposal. [21:47] <JaneMarple9> but then again, voldemort could be thought the sane way [21:47] <Alexk> yes aislinn [21:47] <kaelgirl> hey guys [21:47] <Alexk> he won't be prepared for harry's true powers [21:47] <MirandaV> Good one Molly, he better not fly too close to the sun [21:47] <ProngsPatronus> Vlodemort cannot understand Love weith his mind only [21:47] <Evreka> true Alex [21:47] <harryfreak359> Yes Aislinn and Alex [21:47] <Islwyn13> One thing I thin kLV will miss is that he no longer has horcruxes... [21:47] <MirandaV> wait am I thinking of the right one?? [21:47] <ProngsPatronus> and he has cut off his heart [21:47] <Islwyn13> he'll think he's safe when he's not [21:47] <mollywobbles23> yeah, he might get a tan [21:48] <Aislinn> hi kaelgirl [21:48] <JaneMarple9> no harry doesn;t think himself invincible - he has feared for his life a few times during the series [21:48] <MirandaV> lol Molly [21:48] <Poet> Voldemort already is lacking information about the prophecy, so it is even easier for him to misinterpret or be prideful [21:48] <Evreka> I think he'll overlook something important [21:48] <fawkes28> good point, jane [21:48] <Evreka> LV I mean [21:48] <JaneMarple9> yeah he'd better be careful on his broomstick [21:48] <fawkes28> what could happen is that he hears the whole prophecy and immediately reacts to it without thinking it through [21:49] <MirandaV> Just like he did when hearing the first part fawkes [21:49] *** Breanna has quit [Bye] [21:49] <ProngsPatronus> time for me to go, my friends! [21:49] <Evreka> but it's too late for him to undo his choice [21:49] <mollywobbles23> bye [21:49] <harryfreak359> bye [21:49] <Aislinn> bye prongs! [21:49] <MrMcGonagall> Bye, pp [21:49] <Alexk> bye pp [21:49] <MirandaV> bye Prongs [21:49] <ProngsPatronus> it has been fun [21:49] <JaneMarple9> bye PP! [21:49] <Evreka> so how could it help hoim? [21:49] <Pellinore> It wouldn't suprise me if Harry ends up confronting LV before all of the horcrux's are destroyed.. adding tension.. even if Harry wins then turns LV into a spirit he'll have tofind the last one and toss it into the veil etc. [21:49] *** ProngsPatronus left #lounge [] [21:49] <FernDandylion> Bye! [21:49] <DumbleDebbie> bye PP [21:49] <fawkes28> Dumbledore spent a lot of time talking to Harry about prophecies not always being right. Do you think Jo might have the prophecy not be fulfilled how it seems on the surface? [21:49] <Aislinn> that's possible fawkes [21:49] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [21:49] <JaneMarple9> not sure [21:49] <harryfreak359> lag... [21:50] <harryfreak359> I think so Fawkes [21:50] <mollywobbles23> oh, that's a definite possibility [21:50] <Evreka> could be fawkes [21:50] <harryfreak359> finally :) [21:50] <Alexk> hmm... [21:50] <Islwyn13> Jo also said she and Trelawney worded the prophecy very carefully... [21:50] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's very possible. [21:50] <Islwyn13> leads me to believe there is something there [21:50] <Islwyn13> that it shouldn't be totally dismissed [21:50] <Evreka> lol yes Islwyn [21:50] <Pellinore> maybe but the Prophocy is kinda open so it could be argued that it was fullfilled easily. [21:50] <Poet> I love that Islwyn13 . There is something she's not telling us... [21:50] <Aislinn> I think it has room for ambiguity [21:50] <MirandaV> Hmmmm...maybe, but would that really bring the book to a close??? [21:50] <MafaldaWeasley> hello guys. sorry i'm late. where are we? [21:51] <fawkes28> It may not be completely fulfilled the way it is worded because Jo does stress the importance of Choices over Destiny [21:51] <dumbleydore18> yes. I see some other hidden clue within the prophecy, some fine print. [21:51] <Islwyn13> you think Jo left wiggle room? :) [21:51] <MrMcGonagall> in fact, I think it's even likely that the prophecy will be fulfilled in an unexpected way. [21:51] <MirandaV> Definitely Islwyn [21:51] <harryfreak359> Me too Mr.M [21:51] <Islwyn13> see, I"m not so sure... [21:51] <fawkes28> repeat of question: Dumbledore spent a lot of time talking to Harry about prophecies not always being right. Do you think Jo might have the prophecy not be fulfilled how it seems on the surface? [21:51] <Alexk> yes mrm [21:51] <dumbleydore18> Maybe there is a twist to the Prophet [21:51] <Islwyn13> why would she word it carefully, only to leave wiggle room? [21:51] <MirandaV> I agree MrM [21:51] <MafaldaWeasley> thanks fawkes [21:51] <fawkes28> np [21:51] <MrMcGonagall> I think she worded it carefully precisely so that it would have a degree of ambiguity. [21:52] <mollywobbles23> It's like a logic puzzle [21:52] <Islwyn13> hmm...rereading the question...yeah, maybe you all are right, now that I think about it [21:52] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M - exactly [21:52] <Poet> Not wiggle room so much as to make it hard for us to guess because we don't have all the information yet. [21:52] <fawkes28> that is true, molly [21:52] <Islwyn13> as if I haven't been thinking about it LOL [21:52] <Pellinore> I think she planed the Showdown for some time and built the Prophecy around it to fit so some people may guess right. [21:52] <Evreka> exactly Poet [21:52] <Islwyn13> almost every day since I read it :) [21:52] <DumbleDebbie> yes, she's good at that Mr M [21:52] <MirandaV> Maybe she just wants all of us driving ourselves crazy about the different meanings when it's really right there for us to see...:) [21:52] *** sdcurtis has quit [Bye] [21:52] <Theoriser> she said she worded it carefully... so I don't know, maybe something will happen that fulfills it but it's not the kind of thing that we thought would happen [21:52] <Islwyn13> yeah, she's sadistic like that, isn't she, Miranda! I could see that LOL [21:52] <kaelgirl> heh, I agree miranda [21:53] <fawkes28> Harry and Voldemort are on a collision course. For the literary logic of the story, does this fight have to happen? And even if it happens, does that mean they must heed the prophecy and fight to the death? [21:53] *** FernDandylion has quit [Bye] [21:53] <harryfreak359> Yeah, that's I kind of what I am thinking theoriser [21:53] <fawkes28> Yes, it must happen [21:53] <kaelgirl> it does have to happen! [21:53] <Islwyn13> logically, it must happen [21:53] <harryfreak359> Yes, it must [21:53] <Aislinn> there has to be a confrontation of some sort [21:53] <mollywobbles23> it has to happen [21:53] <Islwyn13> and I think LV must die... [21:53] <Evreka> Does the collition has to happen - yes [21:53] <cbm> Yes [21:53] <fawkes28> We have been waiting for the climax for 6 books - Jo would not disappoint us [21:53] <DumbleDebbie> it must happen, story-wise, and at least one of them has to die [21:53] <kaelgirl> if it doesn't and LV lives, that would be horrible [21:53] <Alexk> i have a theory....harry sacrifices himself(and his love magic) to vanquish the dark lord and save tom m. riddle...harry dies, but tom m. riddle lives? [21:53] <mollywobbles23> The series has been building up to it. [21:53] <Aislinn> but it will be creative, and not what we expect [21:53] <Islwyn13> but not because Harry actively kills him...that would damage Harry's soul, his spiritual development [21:53] <Poet> I don't think the fight has to happen because of the prophecy but as Harry said himself, he would choose it anyways - with his head held high. [21:53] <fawkes28> yes, aislinn [21:53] <Pellinore> yes, to much of a build up in the story to leave that loose end optn [21:53] <Evreka> but how it will happen and the result there of are as much clear to us as Snape's loyality... [21:54] <cbm> Agreed Aislinn [21:54] <mollywobbles23> "If two trains going such-and-such speeds respectively..." [21:54] <MafaldaWeasley> i agree with aislinn... but not necessarily the way we are expecting it tobe. [21:54] <MirandaV> It ahs to happen, I don't know about the fight to the death part though...I think only Jo knows what will really happpen. I reiterate, I don't think Harry will AK LV [21:54] <fawkes28> it will not be a fight to the death but it needs to be a final confrontation between the two [21:54] <kaelgirl> but will they fight with wands? [21:54] <Aislinn> tom living and harry dying would be a horrible ending, alex. I can't see Jo doing that [21:54] <DumbleDebbie> LOL, I like that expression Evreka (clear as mud, eh?) [21:54] <kaelgirl> their wands can't fight against eachother [21:54] <Islwyn13> agreed, aislinn [21:54] <Evreka> Exactly Debbie :D [21:54] <harryfreak359> agreed Aislinn [21:54] <DumbleDebbie> only if they fire at the exact same time kaelgirl [21:54] <fawkes28> it will definitely be something that we don't expect [21:54] <cbm> It will be the scar connection, love, and mr blood in a battle, I just don't know how [21:54] <Islwyn13> they can't cast spells simultaneously... [21:54] * JaneMarple9 gathers everyone up in a great big Corner Booth hug! Got to go but will be back next weekend [21:54] <dumbleydore18> i think partial death is going to be involved with the prophecy. I don't think there is actual death among Harry and LV. remember the quote that DD said? "Death is but the next great adventure". Maybe Harry's next adventure is death or partial death [21:55] <Poet> Even if it's not one of the dying - something has to happen to make it final that one has won and one will never fight again [21:55] <Islwyn13> doesn't mean they can't fight with their wands [21:55] <fawkes28> bye jane [21:55] <MrMcGonagall> I think there will come a point when Harry will stand still and LV will come to him. [21:55] <harryfreak359> Bye Jade [21:55] <MirandaV> agree Aislinn [21:55] <Pellinore> only when they cast at each other at the same time.. i thikn if one cast and another didn't they wouldn't connect [21:55] <harryfreak359> Jane* [21:55] * JaneMarple9 waves [21:55] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [21:55] <Alexk> well...it'd still be a good ending for me...knowing harry sacrificed himself for the good of another....even if it was the person who killed his parents [21:55] <fawkes28> yes, Mr. M - harry will surrender and the magic will somehow take over [21:55] <DumbleDebbie> cool Mr M, come and get me Voldy :grin: [21:55] *** HPFanatic has quit [Bye] [21:55] <Poet> Nice fawkes28 [21:55] <Evreka> Agree Pellinore [21:55] <fawkes28> Harry will lay down his sword (wand) so to speak [21:55] <MirandaV> It's going to be an old fashioned street brawl, i decided. [21:55] <Aislinn> jo has said that Tom is not redeemable, so it would not have a good result, alex [21:55] <MirandaV> hehe [21:55] <Islwyn13> yeah, I think so, too, fawkes [21:55] <harryfreak359> lol Mrianda [21:55] <dumbleydore18> lol [21:56] <Evreka> :lol: [21:56] <Pellinore> maybe Harry will use the Sword or some other weapon.. still like the idea of walking around with a Mandrake plant and earmuffs.. ;) [21:56] <mollywobbles23> lol [21:56] <harryfreak359> lol [21:56] <kaelgirl> haha [21:56] <Islwyn13> I still say Harry can't actively kill LV [21:56] <Alexk> really? so sad for tom [21:56] <DumbleDebbie> lol [21:56] <MirandaV> Pink fuzzy earmuffs [21:56] <dumbleydore18> hahaha [21:56] <kaelgirl> true true [21:56] <Islwyn13> no, no, Neville has the Pink fuzzy earmuffs... [21:56] <kaelgirl> he'll share them [21:57] <harryfreak359> I don't think so ieth Islwyn [21:57] <harryfreak359> either* [21:57] <MirandaV> Lmro...the r stands for rear...I have children...:) [21:57] <Aislinn> This has been a great chat everyone! Thanks for coming :) [21:57] <Islwyn13> Neville will use them to defeat Bella :) [21:57] <harryfreak359> yay! [21:57] <kaelgirl> hehe [21:57] <harryfreak359> Hug time! [21:57] <Islwyn13> this has been great :) [21:57] *** Breanna has joined #lounge [21:57] <kaelgirl> whoot. caught the last bit [21:57] <mollywobbles23> hugs! [21:57] * harryfreak359 gives everyone a big hug [21:57] * Islwyn13 prepares for group hug [21:57] <MirandaV> This was fun...I'm coming back next week! :) [21:57] <Alexk> yes, yes, hug hug [21:57] * Aislinn hugs everyone in the group [21:57] * fawkes28 hugs the group [21:57] <Evreka> (((everyone))) [21:57] <Pellinore> {Hug} :) [21:57] <fawkes28> glad you had fun! :) [21:58] <Aislinn> please do, miranda! [21:58] *** MafaldaWeasley left #lounge [] [21:58] <cbm> It was fun!!! Sorry it has to end :( [21:58] <Poet> bye [21:58] * MrMcGonagall wraps long arms around the whole herd of chatters. [21:58] <Islwyn13> *huggles* [21:58] <MirandaV> hug everyone [21:58] <mollywobbles23> bye everyone! [21:58] *** daretodream2 left #lounge [] [21:58] <fawkes28> Thanks for coming :) [21:58] <Islwyn13> later, all! thanks for this [21:58] <kaelgirl> bye [21:58] <harryfreak359> bye everyone! [21:58] <cbm> bye [21:58] <DumbleDebbie> bye [21:58] <Breanna> adios [21:58] *** Pellinore has quit [Bye] [21:58] <Theoriser> yes, glad you had fun! [21:58] *** Islwyn13 left #lounge [] [21:58] *** mollywobbles23 has quit [Bye] [21:58] *** Breanna has quit [Bye] [21:58] <Evreka> bye [21:58] <Aislinn> see you next time [21:58] *** DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [21:58] <Theoriser> bye everyone [21:58] <MirandaV> bye akk [21:58] *** Evreka left #lounge [] [21:58] *** kaelgirl has quit [Bye] [21:58] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [21:58] <hrh7> Thanks! [21:58] <Alexk> bye [21:58] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [21:58] <Theoriser> hope to see you in another chat [21:58] *** Alexk has quit [Bye] [21:58] <fawkes28> :bye: [21:58] *** MirandaV left #lounge [] [21:58] <dumbleydore18> bye guys! good luck college bound people! I start tomarrow! [21:59] *** hrh7 has quit [Bye] [21:59] <fawkes28> bye good luck! [21:59] *** dumbleydore18 left #lounge [] |
|
|
|
