P3 Corner Booth Transcript: Mar 18, 2007, hp7.com, chapter on Albus Dumbledore |
 Mar 18 2007, 04:21 PM
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Official Lily and Stag Inns of Court Barrister  Posts: 2,513 Joined: 8:28pm June 4, 2006 Location: Staring at the Sea-Miami, Fla  |
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Post-Prince Predictions Chat: hp7.com, Chapter on Albus Dumbledore, I Am With You March 18, 2007 Today’s Chat Moderators Were: Aislinn, cloudpic, Expelliarmas, fawkes28, futureweasley, Mr. McGonagall, and SoonerGryffindor [14:56] -NickServ- This nickname is registered and protected. If it is your [14:56] -NickServ- nick, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY password. Otherwise, [14:56] -NickServ- please choose a different nick. [14:56] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [14:56] *** Topic is: HarryPotterSeven.com Essay by SeverineSnape - "I Am With You" [14:56] *** Topic set by futureweasley [Thu Dec 7 20:19:15 2006] [14:56] <Expelliarmas> No idea what is going on [14:57] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [14:57] <futureweasley> hello! [14:57] <Aislinn> woot, expie! [14:58] <MrMcGonagall> Hey, hey, the mods're all here! [14:59] <fawkes28> that is right [14:59] <futureweasley> the gang's all here! [14:59] <fawkes28> now i am the right color [14:59] <fawkes28> awww group hug [15:00] * futureweasley things a group hug is in order...Stuart's home! [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> Yay! [15:00] <Aislinn> need that Skype bear [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> ((((((((CB Mods)))))))))))) [15:00] <fawkes28> yay - we missed you stuart [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> I missed the chats mucho. [15:01] <MrMcGonagall> Transcripts just aren't as much fun. [15:01] <futureweasley> they really aren't...they are not interactive [15:01] <fawkes28> i hope our chatters dont have trouble getting in [15:02] <MrMcGonagall> Yeah, where is everyone? [15:02] <MrMcGonagall> Reading the essay, no doub! [15:02] <fawkes28> lol [15:02] <Expelliarmas> they're still recovering from Bella's makeover [15:02] <fawkes28> that was so much fun yesterday [15:02] <MrMcGonagall> I can't believe I missed the DE invasion. [15:03] <fawkes28> i got to be the therapist for a bit [15:03] <futureweasley> they wrapped up REALLY early [15:04] <futureweasley> they were too insanely busy to continue [15:04] *** VBug119 has joined #lounge [15:04] <MrMcGonagall> It sounds like it was a crazy day. [15:04] <fawkes28> hi vbug [15:04] <VBug119> hi [15:04] <futureweasley> how are you doing VBug? [15:05] <VBug119> I'm great. I little disappointed Spring Break is over. [15:05] <futureweasley> oh, already?! [15:05] <futureweasley> that stinks [15:05] <futureweasley> our snow isn't even totally melted yet! [15:05] <MrMcGonagall> The weather is bee-u-tee-full in Oklahoma today. [15:06] <VBug119> we got a little snow this weekend, but at the beginning of the week it was in the 70's [15:06] <fawkes28> i got lots of ice here sad [15:06] <VBug119> give me snow over ice any day [15:06] * Expelliarmas has no comment [15:07] <futureweasley> Miami-dweller [15:07] <futureweasley> pfft [15:07] <Expelliarmas> hey! I didnt say anything! [15:07] <fawkes28> yes, expie - keep quiet [15:07] <fawkes28> it was 82 here on wednesday though - i enjoyed that [15:07] *** MirandaV has joined #lounge [15:07] <Expelliarmas> on that note, it's a lovely 80 and very sunny [15:07] <fawkes28> hi miranda! [15:07] <Expelliarmas> heya, Miranda [15:07] *** Ravenclaws_Heir has joined #lounge [15:07] <fawkes28> pffft [15:07] <fawkes28> hi ravenclaw [15:08] <futureweasley> hello all! [15:08] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi! [15:08] <MirandaV> hi all [15:08] *** Punky has joined #lounge [15:08] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hey punky! [15:08] <Aislinn> hi folks smile [15:08] <Punky> Hi guys [15:08] <futureweasley> hi Punks [15:08] <fawkes28> hi punky [15:09] <MirandaV> It's been a few weeks since I read this essay...I think I need to go scan it really quick [15:09] <fawkes28> it's a great essay [15:09] <MrMcGonagall> I just finished it myself. A very good essay. [15:09] <MirandaV> I loved it, I remember that [15:10] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Same, Mr.M, I loved it [15:10] <MirandaV> My computer is having issues...it's taking forever for my posts to appear, but I seem to get all of yours quickly....weird [15:11] *** sdcurtis has joined #lounge [15:11] <fawkes28> hi sdcurtis [15:11] <sdcurtis> hello [15:11] <futureweasley> hello sdcurtis [15:11] <Ravenclaws_Heir> ugg, I hate it when that happens, Miranda. Try closing the window and rejoining the chat--that sometimes works for me. [15:11] <Punky> Hi sdcurtis [15:11] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi sdcurtis! [15:11] <MirandaV> hi sdcurtis [15:11] <MirandaV> I'll try reconnecting [15:11] *** MirandaV has quit [Bye] [15:12] <fawkes28> I love CB chats smile [15:12] <futureweasley> me too [15:13] <MrMcGonagall> I missed them a lot this past week. [15:13] <MrMcGonagall> My week was not complete. [15:14] <fawkes28> awww we missed you too [15:14] <futureweasley> they missed you too Stuart [15:14] <MrMcGonagall> This will be an awesome chat. I can feel it. [15:15] <Expelliarmas> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [15:15] <Expelliarmas> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the /top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [15:15] <Expelliarmas> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [15:15] *** dumbleydore18 has joined #lounge [15:15] <Expelliarmas> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [15:15] <Expelliarmas> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [15:15] <futureweasley> Each week our P3 chats are discussing one of the chapters from Leaky’s new project: HarryPotterSeven.com, which can be found at this website: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#static:bookseven [15:15] <futureweasley> Today we will be discussing SeverineSnape’s chapter, “I Am With You," as she considers "One of the most important relationships Harry has formed," the one with Headmaster Albus Dumbledore. [15:16] <futureweasley> She explores ways Dumbledore affected Harry's life by taking on the roles of the Chosen One's protector, teacher and mentor. Has Dumbledore fully prepared Harry for the tasks ahead? [15:16] <futureweasley> SeverineSnape’s chapter can be found here: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#static:...even/dumbledore [15:16] <futureweasley> One of Dumbledore's first acts in his role as Harry's Protector was to recommend the Fidelius Charm for the Potters. Why ever would they turn down Dumbledore's offer to be the Secret Keeper? [15:16] <futureweasley> maybe too much responsibility, and guilt if anything went wrong [15:16] <dumbleydore18> maybe they didn't want that protection? [15:17] <futureweasley> I doubt that DD18...who wouldn't want DD's protection in that sense at that time? [15:17] <Aislinn> I wonder if they just felt that it would be too much of a burden to place on him [15:17] <fawkes28> I think James is a lot like Harry and I can see him not wanting to go to DD for all his problems [15:17] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, it would have been one more thing for Dd. [15:17] <Aislinn> yes, fawkes, I can see that [15:17] <sdcurtis> Perhaps Dumbledore gave James, at least, a reason not to trust him [15:18] <Aislinn> do you think so, sdcurtis ? [15:18] <sdcurtis> It's a possibility [15:18] <fawkes28> really, sdcurtis? why do you think so? [15:18] <futureweasley> sdcurtis...that's interesting...maybe that had something to do with the invisibility cloak? [15:18] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, fawkes. [15:18] <VBug119> maybe they thought Dumbledore was too obvious [15:18] <dumbleydore18> I can't see any reason for people to not trust DD, unless it were the MoM inwhich they already don't trust him [15:18] <Ravenclaws_Heir> interesting thought, future [15:18] <futureweasley> that's an idea too VBug [15:19] <futureweasley> I think it's possible that they didn't want to put DD in that position, with all the other responsibility he was shouldering [15:19] <sdcurtis> Well perhaps Dumbledore didn't like the idea of Sirius being Secret Keeper because he can be somewhat of a loose cannon [15:19] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, dumbley. I can't see any member of the order, James in particular, not trusting Dumbledore [15:19] <fawkes28> that is a good point, future [15:19] <MrMcGonagall> I think part of it was James being clever - part of the reason for the whole switcheroo with Sirius and Peter. [15:19] <fawkes28> James probably didnt want to burden him [15:19] <MrMcGonagall> It's like, don't choose the obvious person. [15:20] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, future. That is what I have always thought. [15:20] <fawkes28> or maybe even put Dumbledore in danger [15:20] <Expelliarmas> No, MrM, I think James was deceived by Peter into doing the whole switcheroo [15:20] <futureweasley> switcheroo...lol...a likely issue...Jame's own confidence in his abilities [15:20] <dumbleydore18> I also think that it has to do with the secret keeper, maybe the potters knew that Peter was not fully trusting and therefore the fidelious charm would not have worked either way [15:20] <Aislinn> they may have felt that the secret keeper would have to go into hiding, and that they couldn't ask that of DD [15:20] <futureweasley> Lily and James were powerful and talented and had survived 3 conflicts with Voldemort, so why did Dumbledore step in with this suggestion for Protection even before Harry was orphaned? [15:20] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean dumbley [15:21] <MrMcGonagall> I think the confrontations may have been the result of LV stalking the Potters. [15:21] <fawkes28> DD likes people to solve their own issues [15:22] <Ravenclaws_Heir> because it was so important...I can't see him not doing anything in his power to protect the person that could defeat voldemort [15:22] <fawkes28> and he gives them guidance on the side [15:22] <Expelliarmas> that's how DD rolls [15:22] *** MirandaV has joined #lounge [15:22] <Ravenclaws_Heir> welcome back, Miranda [15:22] <fawkes28> He wants to give people a sense of accomplishment and not take control [15:22] * MirandaV furiously kicks computer [15:22] <futureweasley> I think that DD understood that protection was necessary because of the prophecy [15:22] <dumbleydore18> ravenclaws, what I mean is that true DD could have protected their home and everything surrounding them, but if they had a deceiver among them (Peter) and that deceiver when to go tell voldy there is no point in having the home protected because I am sure Voldy knew how to countreract the fidelius, so either way the potters would not have been protected...does that help? [15:22] <Aislinn> I think there is a difference between defying LV and surviving confrontations as one of a group, and another of being specifically targeted [15:23] *** SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [15:23] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [15:23] <futureweasley> hi mafalda [15:23] <Aislinn> hi mafalda [15:23] <MirandaV> thanks [15:23] <fawkes28> hi malfada [15:23] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Ah, I get what you're saying dumbley, thanks. But I disagree about LV being able to counteract the fidelius [15:23] <MirandaV> ni malfada [15:23] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [15:23] <Ravenclaws_Heir> hi malfada [15:23] <MafaldaWeasley> hello everyone! finally made in!!! [15:23] <futureweasley> hi love [15:23] <Aislinn> hey love4 [15:23] <Expelliarmas> The Potters defied LV, that implies more than just eluding LV [15:23] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi Love4Fawkes [15:23] *** MirandaV has quit [Bye] [15:23] <futureweasley> I will repeat the question: Lily and James were powerful and talented and had survived 3 conflicts with Voldemort, so why did Dumbledore step in with this suggestion for Protection even before Harry was orphaned? [15:24] *** MirandaV has joined #lounge [15:24] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, expie [15:24] <Aislinn> wb miranda [15:24] <Expelliarmas> DD knew the Prophecy in its entirety [15:24] <dumbleydore18> I think the reason with the fact that their house was more protected was because Harry was going to be born, or that was around the time that DD heard of the Prophecy and so he wanted to add extra measures to things [15:24] <MirandaV> thanks [15:24] <Love4Fawkes> hi everyone [15:24] * MirandaV is frustrated [15:24] <futureweasley> yes Expie...he was trying to circumvent any loss to the best of his ability [15:24] <futureweasley> (((Miranda))) [15:24] <MafaldaWeasley> i think DD was a lot more expirience on dealing with evil. if he had not lost members of his own family due to the fight against the evil [15:25] <fawkes28> maybe Dumbledore did other magic with them before he did the Fidelius [15:25] <MirandaV> What are we talking about?? Aw...thanks fw [15:25] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree future [15:25] <futureweasley> SeverineSnape acknowledges that we don't know just when Dumbledore realized that Voldemort considered Harry the adversary mentioned in the Prophecy. How might Dumbledore have learned the choice Voldemort made? [15:26] <futureweasley> I hate to admit this...it's actually painful... [15:26] <Expelliarmas> well, probably not when Snape showed up and told DD about it [15:26] <futureweasley> insider information from Snape [15:26] <Aislinn> someone, Fudge I think, mentions that DD learned of it from a spy in Voldy's camp [15:26] <Expelliarmas> he found out after the Potters were attacked [15:26] <fawkes28> yes, future - that is correct smile [15:26] <MirandaV> Didn't *gags* Snape tell him [15:26] <MrMcGonagall> I'm not sure DD did know until LV actually killed the Potters. [15:26] <MrMcGonagall> I think Longbottoms may have had similar protection. [15:26] <MafaldaWeasley> I don't think so. I think DD was able to get pieces together by himself. [15:26] <Love4Fawkes> I'm pretty sure snape told him [15:27] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [15:27] <futureweasley> hi Prongs [15:27] <Aislinn> we don't know for sure that Snape was the only spy that DD had in LV's camp [15:27] <ProngsPatronus> hello! [15:27] <dumbleydore18> I think it was the time in which Snape was then a DE [15:27] <MafaldaWeasley> yes, MrM, I agree he must have make sure that Neville and Harry both had received extra protection [15:27] <MafaldaWeasley> hi PP! [15:27] <MirandaV> I think he knew ahead of time...he says something about once he knew he took protective steps at some point [15:27] <Expelliarmas> I don't know if the Longbottoms had any protection [15:27] <VBug119> That's what I though Mr.M [15:27] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi prongs! [15:27] <MirandaV> hi Prongs [15:27] <MrMcGonagall> Based on what he knew of LV, I can see DD re-constructing LV's process of deduction. [15:27] <fawkes28> great response, dd18 [15:28] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree with what everyone is saying--insider information from snape or possibly another DE spy we don't know about. [15:28] <MirandaV> I think it was just the Potters that had protection [15:28] <dumbleydore18> thx fawkes lol [15:28] <Love4Fawkes> I agree mirandaV [15:28] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hmmm, that's an interesting idea, Mr.M [15:28] <Expelliarmas> LV had equal reasons for chosing either Neville or Harry [15:28] <MafaldaWeasley> where were Neville when his parents were tortured? I know this was abit after, but still it shows they had some protection going on [15:28] <ProngsPatronus> I think that the Longbottoms probably, being Aurors, declined protection [15:28] <MrMcGonagall> DD knew Tom Riddle was a half-blood. [15:29] <futureweasley> wow, I had never thought of that [15:29] <Expelliarmas> I think the fact they were tortured says something about them not having any protection [15:29] <Aislinn> that could be possible Prongs [15:29] <MafaldaWeasley> ahh good point, PP [15:29] <Love4Fawkes> I think DD knew exactly who LV had chosen to go after so the longbottoms did not need any protection [15:29] <Aislinn> they may have felt that they were able to protect themselves [15:29] <futureweasley> which, of course, begs the question...what did the Potters do? [15:29] <MirandaV> Maybe they were "at work" at the time Malfada...after LV was defeated the aurors were sent around to gather up the remaining DEs [15:29] <MafaldaWeasley> expei, Neville had, I'm not saying about his parents only [15:29] <ProngsPatronus> I think that is entirely possible, Miranda [15:30] <MafaldaWeasley> yes, MrM, I agree with you [15:30] <futureweasley> The next Protection used the "ancient magic" generated by Lily's sacrifice. Voldemort never considered it, yet Dumbledore worked it all out in just a few hours. How do you suppose Dumbledore managed all those details so quickly? Did he have help? [15:30] <MirandaV> so then, even if they were protected before his downfall, they wouldn't have remained so...he'd made his choice already [15:31] <fawkes28> i think Snape was there that night [15:31] <Punky> So snape helped him envoke that magic? [15:31] <futureweasley> LV is not as dumb as we all wish he were [15:31] <ProngsPatronus> I think he knew Lily Potter well--and knew her area of expertise [15:31] <MafaldaWeasley> I don't think Snape was there,fawkes. [15:31] <Expelliarmas> DD wouldn't need help like that [15:31] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's the kind of thing DD would know. [15:31] <Love4Fawkes> Voldemort has always underestimated the power of love where DD believes it is the ultimate strength [15:31] <Expelliarmas> DD would know about ancient magic steeped in love [15:31] <Aislinn> I think that Dumbledore understood what had happened, and took advantage of it to extend Harry's protection [15:31] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree with expie. I think DD was old and expirienced enough by then to be sure of what he was dealing with [15:31] <MirandaV> Ummm...DD intensively studies the opposite kind of magic of LV...so to me it means that he would know the "ancient magic" better, because it wasn't dark magic [15:31] <VBug119> I think DD puts more value on "ancient magic" than LV. [15:31] <Expelliarmas> DD would have known immediately what to do [15:31] <Aislinn> He was a brilliant wizard, and knew a lot about the ancient magic [15:32] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Possibly...but then again he is Dumbledore, he doesn't need help. He was able to work it out so quickly becuase he has a very deep understanding of "ancient magic" [15:32] <futureweasley> I think it's inevitable that there was someone at GH that night...but I don't think it was Snape [15:32] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree future! [15:32] <MirandaV> I agree fw [15:32] <Love4Fawkes> I agree future [15:32] <Expelliarmas> If Snape was there, fawkes28, and saw the murder and did nothing--then he's worse than I thought [15:33] <fawkes28> i disagree, future [15:33] *** Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [15:33] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [15:33] *** ProngsPatronus left #lounge [] [15:33] <MirandaV> I agree Expie [15:33] <MirandaV> I already think he's evil that would make him even more so [15:33] <dumbleydore18> sorry it took me so long to answer i've been thinking... [15:33] <futureweasley> After Voldemort returned, Dumbledore added members of the Order as Protection for Harry both at Privet Drive and Hogwarts. What do you make of the Figg - Mundungas team? [15:34] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [15:34] <fawkes28> i love the interaction between the two of them [15:34] <futureweasley> I will reask the question: After Voldemort returned, Dumbledore added members of the Order as Protection for Harry both at Privet Drive and Hogwarts. What do you make of the Figg - Mundungas team? [15:34] <Expelliarmas> Poor Mrs. Figg, stuck with a shady character like Dung [15:34] <Aislinn> they are an interesting choice [15:34] <Love4Fawkes> lol. . . not the best team for the job that's for sure! [15:34] <futureweasley> volatile [15:34] <MrMcGonagall> They belong on the Carol Burnett show. [15:34] <fawkes28> I think it is good to having Figg there as a constant watch because she has been watching him for years [15:34] <ProngsPatronus> Thanks, future. I think he used wizards who might blend in a little better with Muggles [15:34] <MafaldaWeasley> I think they are great!...She likes to keep an eye on him, and he respects her for some reason [15:34] <MirandaV> Well, Figg is a good one, but Mundungas obviously has issues with his theiving ways...he makes them a higher priority than Harry's protection...that's a no-no [15:35] <futureweasley> they aren't exactly dependable [15:35] <Expelliarmas> Exactly, Miranda [15:35] <Love4Fawkes> Mrs. Figg has been dependable and has kept a great eye on Harry, but she's a squib so she could offer no actually protection [15:35] <Expelliarmas> Mrs. Figg and her cats are dependable [15:35] *** cbm has joined #lounge [15:35] <futureweasley> well, she couldn't be there [15:35] <ProngsPatronus> Again, human nature defeats Dumbledore's intentions [15:36] <Aislinn> hey cbm [15:36] <futureweasley> and Dung wouldn't be there [15:36] <MafaldaWeasley> hello cbm [15:36] <MirandaV> I agree L4F....I think Figg is dependable [15:36] <cbm> Hi everyone [15:36] <ProngsPatronus> hey, cbm [15:36] <dumbleydore18> I wonder why DD put two people of the opposite nature together. Dung for one thing only thinks of himself while FIgg has been at privet drive (I am assuming) since Harry arrived as a baby or some time around then. FIgg, I think cares more of Harry's protection than Dung does. [15:36] <fawkes28> I think it is important that she knows what to do when Dung messed up [15:36] <MirandaV> true Prongs [15:36] <MirandaV> hi cbm [15:36] <futureweasley> hi cbm [15:36] <dumbleydore18> However, if Harry wanted someone to protect harry wouldn't he have someone around that can actually doooooo magic? [15:36] <Love4Fawkes> dd needed someone he could rely on paired with unreliable Dung [15:36] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Figg seems responsible enough...if not magically talented to defend him. Mundungas...I kind of thought he was a last resort. It can't be easy to find order members willing to keep a 24/7 watch on Harry. There may have been on one else available for that shift/ [15:36] *** VBug119 has quit [Bye] [15:37] <dumbleydore18> instead of a squibb or did DD not think that tooo much harm would come to Harry? [15:37] <Expelliarmas> I wonder at DD not giving Mrs. Figg a way to communicate directly with him which would not require another wizard. [15:37] <Love4Fawkes> i think Dung was there only for a shift, they were all sharing duties [15:37] <MirandaV> That's also true fawkes, she really had no way to immediately let DD know what had happened if Dung hadn't of shown up [15:37] <Ravenclaws_Heir> That's a good point, expie [15:37] <fawkes28> well, she can send owls [15:37] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, I agree love [15:37] <Aislinn> I wonder if it is more a question of just keeping an eye out. The protections on Privet Drive were the actual protections [15:37] <futureweasley> someone who can't perform magic, and someone who is irresponsible and self-centered...that isn't a security dreamteam if you ask me [15:37] <fawkes28> and maybe she is connected to the Floo Network [15:37] <Ravenclaws_Heir> but that can be slow, fawkes. What if there was an emergency? [15:37] <MirandaV> Yes, but in this case an owl would take too long [15:38] <MafaldaWeasley> I think that Dung must have been more lazy after he saw what Harry could do. I think he's major issue is that he think Harry desn't really need him for portection anymore, so he can go back for his livin'. But don't forget, he's very very good on disguise [15:38] <futureweasley> however, DD could have done the best with what he had available to him [15:38] <Expelliarmas> She can send owls, but that wouldn't be quick enough in an emergency *cough*dementors*cough [15:38] <MirandaV> I meant specifically with what did happen [15:38] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think guard duty at Privet Drive was considered as high priority as at the MoM in OotP. [15:38] <Aislinn> maybe she has a portrait in here house that can communicate with DD [15:38] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, I agree future [15:38] <fawkes28> well - Dung was the one who got to DD first in that case [15:38] <fawkes28> oh i like that Aislinn [15:38] <MirandaV> But only because he suddenly showed up....what if he hadn't [15:39] <Expelliarmas> I wonder why DD would not have something similar to Sirius' two-way mirrors [15:39] <MrMcGonagall> Maybe there were more experienced wizards at times, but the dementors came at a moment when the guard was down. [15:39] <futureweasley> Which Order members seemed most effective in protecting Harry inside and out of Hogwarts? Why do you think so? [15:39] <MirandaV> That would be neat Aislinn [15:39] <MafaldaWeasley> inside, Minerva. outside, the Weasleys [15:39] <MrMcGonagall> MadEye [15:39] *** VBug119 has joined #lounge [15:39] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well..moody is certainly effective... [15:39] <Expelliarmas> Tonks because of her abilities [15:39] <Love4Fawkes> the Weasleys comes to mind first [15:39] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Hagrid was pretty effective [15:40] <ProngsPatronus> he laso has the advantage of having Harry's respect [15:40] <futureweasley> I agree that Tonks and MadEye were very effective...but they had other jobs [15:40] <Aislinn> I agree, Prongs - Hagrid is a great protector [15:40] <fawkes28> Yes, the Weasleys and Hagrid [15:40] <Love4Fawkes> the Weasleys have been protecting Harry from the beginning. Like in POA when Mr. Weasely is the only one will to tell harry the truth about Sirius [15:40] <dumbleydore18> Well at the time inside would have been Lupin and outside my guess would be the weasleys as well. [15:40] <Aislinn> and has been since their very first meeting [15:40] <Expelliarmas> Hagrid, however, would stick out like a sore thumb [15:40] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that DD sent a pretty good team to pick up Harry in OotP: Moody, Tonks, Lupin, ect. all are powerful and responsible. And moodies paranoia can't hurt [15:40] <MirandaV> Weasleys outside...and I agree with Hagrid inside [15:40] <cbm> We do not see the protection for the most part, but I agree about Hagrid for inside hogwarts [15:40] <ProngsPatronus> the key here, I think, is that Harry has to be willing to listen to an adult [15:40] <fawkes28> yes, dd18 - i think Lupin is good as well [15:40] <dumbleydore18> I just had a thought....what if Petunia worked or is now working for the Order.... [15:40] <Love4Fawkes> you're right prongs [15:40] <MirandaV> When Lupin was inside he was great too [15:40] <ProngsPatronus> not many of the Order are actually his personal friends [15:41] <fawkes28> very true, prongs [15:41] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Thats interesting, Prongs. So that makes people like Lupin and the Weasleys mroe effective. [15:41] <Expelliarmas> most of the Order members are not personal friends [15:41] <futureweasley> Dumbledore has not knowingly put anyone in Harry's like that is NOT a great protector. Even the Dursleys are protectors, if even in the most warped sense of the term [15:41] <MirandaV> That's true Prongs...I think he'd listen to Lupin and the Weasleys above all the others [15:41] <MrMcGonagall> That's a point, future. [15:41] <fawkes28> Arthur and Molly are like parents to him - it is easier for them to protect him sometimes [15:41] <Expelliarmas> the Dursleys aren't protectors; they are an accident of blood [15:41] <MirandaV> gp future [15:41] <MrMcGonagall> Well, not vernon and Dudley, but Petunia offers a protection of sorts. [15:41] <dumbleydore18> could muggles be in the order? The Dursleys are protecting Harry, could they be a part of the Order without knowing it? [15:41] <Love4Fawkes> true expelliarmas, but that does make them protectors [15:42] <MrMcGonagall> Even if grudgingly and unwillingly. [15:42] <Ravenclaws_Heir> So, using prongs idea Moody would be less effective because Harry might disreguard his orders (like the wand in the back pocket) as paranoid [15:42] <MirandaV> that's also true Expie, but by accepting him they protected him ditto MrM [15:42] <cbm> They protect him from physical harm, but inflict harm on him mentally [15:42] <Aislinn> yes they do, cbm [15:42] <MirandaV> too true cbm...they are abusive IMO [15:42] *** memyslfnI has joined #lounge [15:42] <Love4Fawkes> the durselys certainly aren't great protectors, but they do offer some protection [15:42] <futureweasley> hi me [15:42] <Aislinn> Hi Me [15:43] <Ravenclaws_Heir> hey memyselfnI! [15:43] <fawkes28> hi memyslfnI [15:43] <memyslfnI> hey [15:43] <ProngsPatronus> I also see Lupin as much more effective when he is a teacher [15:43] <MirandaV> hi me [15:43] <futureweasley> SeverineSnape points out the irony of Dumbledore's love for Harry leading to mistakes. Dumbledore admitted to Harry, "…I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act." Love? Foolish? [15:43] <MirandaV> Well now he's too busy with the werewolves I think Prongs [15:43] <Aislinn> No, love is not foolish, in and of itself [15:43] <Love4Fawkes> Love is foolish in LV's eyes [15:43] <ProngsPatronus> Lupin had the chance to protect Harry in a way that he never could for James [15:43] <Expelliarmas> As Voldemort doesnt think of love, I wonder about DD's premise [15:43] <futureweasley> yes, LV sees those attributes as weaknesses [15:43] <MrMcGonagall> Love can make us blind. [15:43] <fawkes28> I think it was a great way to show that even Dumbledore makes mistakes [15:43] <cbm> He tried to "protect" harry by keeping things from him in OotP and in doing so hurt Harry badly [15:43] <Aislinn> LV does, but LV is blind [15:43] <fawkes28> yes, Mr. M [15:44] <memyslfnI> one who never experiences love will see it as a weak emotion. [15:44] <MirandaV> agreed MrM [15:44] <cbm> Love is never foolish! [15:44] <Love4Fawkes> well put me [15:44] <fawkes28> it made DD more human - because many of us had him up on a pedastal before [15:44] <ProngsPatronus> I think Active Love is the most powerful force in the Universe [15:44] <futureweasley> no matter how wise one is...Love can be that person's undoing...DD had a heart that overrode his senses [15:44] <MafaldaWeasley> yes fawkes, [15:44] <dumbleydore18> this makes sense because those in love can act foolish sometimes. Not saying in love in the way that a couple would, but when it comes to family and pets people tend to not think "what is right and easy" when it comes to protection. [15:44] <Ravenclaws_Heir> No, it's not foolish. I am still not conivinced that DD did the wrong thing by protecting Harry the first four years (after LV came back, however, Haryr needed to know.) [15:44] <Expelliarmas> oh, I didn't have DD up on a pedestal [15:44] <Aislinn> There are things that DD gave to Harry that he would not have, if he had paid more attention to his plan than to his love of Harry [15:44] <Love4Fawkes> i think dd agrees with you prongs as do i [15:44] <MirandaV> DD was blind to seeing that Harry needed to know because he wanted to protect him, but I don't think love is ever foolish [15:44] <MrMcGonagall> People do some really foolish things for those whom they love. [15:44] <memyslfnI> Love is a higher power (as said by U2) [15:44] <Love4Fawkes> i still put dd up on a pedestal smile [15:45] <futureweasley> I'm sorry to disagree...but love CAN be a bit foolish [15:45] <memyslfnI> me too love4fawkes! [15:45] <Aislinn> there are balances to be struck [15:45] <futureweasley> and the things you do for that love can be even more foolish [15:45] <fawkes28> well, i mean he wasn't a god-like figure anymore - he became human [15:45] <ProngsPatronus> always, Aislinn [15:45] <MirandaV> Exactly MrM....people can act foolishly because of love, but love itself is not foolish [15:45] <Aislinn> And the connection that DD and Harry shared was vital to Harry's development of his greatest strenght [15:45] <cbm> I believe that what you do for love can be foolish, but the act of caring for someone that much is not a foolish act [15:45] <Ravenclaws_Heir> well worded Miranda [15:46] <Love4Fawkes> i see what you're saying fawkes, i guess I never saw him as god-like, just all knowing, but still human [15:46] <memyslfnI> I think the love DD had for HArry took him by suprise. That is what is foolish. It creeps up on a person [15:46] <Aislinn> Even if fthere were things that could have been handled a bit differently by DD [15:46] * fawkes28 sings "Why do fools fall in love?" [15:46] <MafaldaWeasley> I thinki think what we saw was his human and week, by sayin' so, side. I think that this made us see that nobody is 100% right [15:46] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think Dd's love for Harry would have been somewhat purer if he had trusted Harry with the truth earlier. [15:46] <Expelliarmas> love itself isn't foolish or noble; it's what people do under its influence that determines how we perceive it; Merope fancied herself in love and look at what she did. [15:46] <MirandaV> Yes, Aislinn [15:46] <cbm> lol [15:46] <VBug119> exactly cbm. it's not the emotion that's foolish it's the actions [15:46] *** antonin has joined #lounge [15:46] * Ravenclaws_Heir snorts butterbeer out her nose [15:46] * MirandaV joins in the chorus [15:46] * Expelliarmas puts earplugs in her ears [15:46] <antonin> hello everyone! [15:46] <futureweasley> if they trick you into affection, and you fall on false pretenses, you have been dupped. Hence, Snape/Dumbledore mess [15:46] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi antonin! [15:46] <MrMcGonagall> "fool" may be a relative term as DD is using it. [15:46] <ProngsPatronus> I think DD was waiting for Harry to ask the question again, as he had in PS?SS [15:46] <futureweasley> yes MrMcG...I agree [15:47] <MirandaV> hi antonin [15:47] <ProngsPatronus> but Harry never did [15:47] <futureweasley> Dumbledore himself says he cared too much for Harry and didn't care enough for those who might die if his plan failed because of his overprotection. On which side do you find yourself in the choice between the good of a loved one and "the good of the many?" [15:47] <MrMcGonagall> People who love do things that others would consider crazy [15:47] <MirandaV> I think it is MrM....I think he's saying it from LV perspective in a way [15:47] <dumbleydore18> "<Aislinn> ... if he had paid more attention to his plan than to his love of Harry" exactly, DD was too busy in choosing what was easy (sheilding Harry from knowing the bad and protecting him) than choosing what was right (giving harry all the info that he needed) [15:47] *** MafaldaWeasley has quit [Bye] [15:47] <antonin> what's the topic? [15:47] <Expelliarmas> Harry learned not to ask questions long ago, P2 [15:47] <antonin> oh...not good [15:47] <antonin> i haven't read that essay [15:47] <MirandaV> I think that it is a hard choice to make and that no one can really say what they'd do unless they are faced with that choice [15:47] <memyslfnI> Maybe the love that Hrry radiates, the pure love he is so full of, was what took DD by suprise? Dumbledore, I am sure loves many of his students, but was unprepared for the pure force that Harry is said to posess [15:48] <ProngsPatronus> I am Dumbledore's person through and through [15:48] <futureweasley> If you would like to discuss SeverineSnape’s essay on the lounge, please click here: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showt...=40385&st=0 [15:48] <Aislinn> exactly miranda [15:48] <MirandaV> do you save your child...or the faceless masses [15:48] <Ravenclaws_Heir> exactly, miranda [15:48] <fawkes28> I think it is a tough spot for any person to be in but i think he did right [15:48] <Expelliarmas> DD had his eye on the bigger picture--Harry as the only hope to take out LV [15:48] <memyslfnI> me too Prongs! I believe in him [15:48] <cbm> Good of a loved one comes first for me, But DD was in a whole different position! [15:48] <MirandaV> I am too Prongs!! [15:48] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [15:48] <Expelliarmas> It wasn't a question of loving Harry, it was a question of getting him ready to face LV [15:48] <futureweasley> hi Jane! [15:48] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi Jane! [15:48] <fawkes28> Harry had the weight of the world on his shoulders of course he wanted him happy [15:49] <cbm> I believe in DD, but realize he makes mistakes, and when he makes them, they are big mistakes [15:49] <JaneMarple9> bye1 [15:49] <Love4Fawkes> DD was in a whole different position, but he began to feel like Harry's protector and that began to take precedence [15:49] <Expelliarmas> heya Jane [15:49] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think Dd really did Harry a service of love in keeping the truth from him for so long. [15:49] <Aislinn> I agree, Me, that DD was unprepared for the love that he felt for Harry, but it was to Harry's advantage, as well as disadvantage that he loves Harry in this way [15:49] <antonin> hi jane bye1 [15:49] <ProngsPatronus> well, I think we will see that Dumbledore's wisdom in this will bear fruit [15:49] <MirandaV> allo Jane [15:49] <memyslfnI> I agree Prongs!! [15:49] <Love4Fawkes> I think your right Mr. M - harry should have known the truth a long time ago [15:49] *** sdcurtis has quit [Bye] [15:49] <Aislinn> me too, Prongs [15:49] <dumbleydore18> that question is so hard to answer. It's like "sophies choice" about a women who had to choose between her own children, but in the end they both died [15:49] *** WaggaWaggaWerewolf has joined #lounge [15:50] <futureweasley> hi Wagga [15:50] <ProngsPatronus> why is Harry able to make such a strong Patronus? [15:50] <Expelliarmas> I don't know that Harry was ready to hear the whole thing early on; but perhaps after GoF [15:50] <fawkes28> hi wagga [15:50] <MirandaV> I think DD cared for Harry as a son in a way....and I don't think that can ever be wrong....Dumbley I love that movie [15:50] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> Hi [15:50] <Aislinn> I'm not sure that I agree that Harry would have been better off knowing about the Prophecy sooner [15:50] <MirandaV> hi wagga [15:50] <memyslfnI> I agree Aislimnn [15:50] <ProngsPatronus> hey, W3 [15:50] <cbm> I think he should have told him during the summer after GoF, I have Sirius do it [15:50] <memyslfnI> Hey WWW [15:50] <Love4Fawkes> I think it would have given him more time to prepare [15:50] <antonin> hi wagga [15:50] <cbm> or have sirius [15:50] <ProngsPatronus> right after Cedric's death? [15:50] <fawkes28> what purpose would it serve to tell him earlier? [15:50] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think so [15:51] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I disagree, kind of, Mr.M. I think Harry was able to grow into a more normal person during the first four books without the burden of the prophecy. However, once LV came back Harry needed to know...so many disasters in OotP could have been avoided iff DD had told Harry. [15:51] <memyslfnI> He had so much on his plate! I think DD did the right thing [15:51] <Love4Fawkes> but I agree with what aislinn said before, if DD had stuck to the plan, Harry certainly would have missed out on a lot [15:51] <fawkes28> he had just suffered from emotional shock after GoF [15:51] <futureweasley> In life, Dumbledore's last act of Protection was to make sure Harry was both invisible and unable to move during the struggle in the Tower. Was this the best choice? What might have happened at the Tower that night had Harry been able to act? [15:51] <memyslfnI> I think alot of his self blame was to make Harry feel better [15:51] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> Maybe Harry was in no state to have heard the prophecy right after Cedric died [15:51] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [15:51] <fawkes28> that was not a good time to tell him [15:51] <Expelliarmas> Harry would have taken Draco out for one thing [15:51] <MirandaV> I'm not sure that he was ready either Aislinn...DD wanted to give him a little happiness in his life before it was snatched from him yet again. Harry hadn't had a life before Hogwarts and DD knew he wouldn't have on after...he was trying to give him a few sami normal years [15:51] <dumbleydore18> I guessI look at it in the terms of should Harry sacrifice himself for others, or should others sacrifice themselves for him, and harry regretting having been protected. [15:51] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think we've debated this before, fawkes tongue [15:51] <ProngsPatronus> Harry would have died [15:51] <MafaldaWeasley> I think Snuffles hates me sad [15:51] <Aislinn> It probably was the best choice, given the choices available at the time [15:51] <cbm> DD considered Harry more valuable than himself, so he would protect Harry above all others [15:51] <ProngsPatronus> fenrir would have seen to that [15:52] <memyslfnI> It is a possibility he would have been killed. That was the one thing that DD was trying to avoid. [15:52] <cbm> They had to brooms Harry had an escape route [15:52] <antonin> hi mafalda [15:52] <Aislinn> that's right, Miranda, and Harry needed that for his own psychological growth [15:52] <Aislinn> It will make him a more effective "tool" in the battle [15:52] <MafaldaWeasley> hi antonin. [15:52] <Ravenclaws_Heir> but, cbm, Harry would have never left DD [15:52] <Expelliarmas> true, cbm, they did have brooms [15:52] <Love4Fawkes> I think we will learn exactly why dd did that in book 7 [15:52] <cbm> He could have taken DD on the other broom [15:52] <MirandaV> yes, I agree...it more developed his love...and that's what was most important [15:52] <ProngsPatronus> but did they have time to use them? [15:53] <Aislinn> exactly, Miranda [15:53] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, DD is completely focused on Harry. As in PS/SS, Harry's the one who has to go on alone, and DD knows this. [15:53] <Expelliarmas> yes, Draco was up there for ages, P2 [15:53] <fawkes28> the reason i think that he made harry unable to move was because DD knew what was coming and what Snape had to do [15:53] <Ravenclaws_Heir> cbm, DD never would have left Hogwarts overrun by DE [15:53] <JaneMarple9> sorry I'm late! Whats the question today??? [15:53] <dumbleydore18> Harry, if not been hidden by DD, would have put up quite a fight, but would have been no match for Snape or Frenrir [15:53] <Love4Fawkes> i agree fawkes [15:53] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he avoid Harry to fight Draco. Not Snape [15:53] <cbm> I disagree fawkes [15:53] <fawkes28> and Harry would have interfered with Snape killing DD [15:53] <memyslfnI> Dumbledore knew that it was HArry, because of LV acting on the prophecy, that would be the instrumental force in his downfall. HE had to keep him safe, even if it meant his own life. If harry was to die, LV never would be defeated [15:53] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> Maybe DD needed Harry to be a witness, not a participant. [15:53] <Ravenclaws_Heir> DD had to do it, Harry never would have left DD, DD never would have left hogwarts, therefore Harry would not have left hogwarts and possibly would have been killed [15:53] <Aislinn> I do wonder if he did it, because he felt that Harry needed to witness what was to come [15:53] <futureweasley> repeat of the question: [15:53] <memyslfnI> good point WWW! [15:53] <futureweasley> In life, Dumbledore's last act of Protection was to make sure Harry was both invisible and unable to move during the struggle in the Tower. Was this the best choice? What might have happened at the Tower that night had Harry been able to act? [15:54] <Expelliarmas> Had he not been immoblized, Harry and DD would have been gone from the tower long before Snape and Fenrir arrived [15:54] <ProngsPatronus> I agree with you, aislinn [15:54] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Interesting, Aislinn [15:54] <MirandaV> I think he may have Wagga and Aislinn [15:54] <JaneMarple9> he may have prevented dumbledore's death [15:54] <Expelliarmas> DD was trying to protect Draco, imo; not Harry [15:54] <fawkes28> and DD didnt want his death to be prevented [15:54] <cbm> I don't think so, how could he have known exactly what was to come [15:54] <fawkes28> it was time [15:54] <ProngsPatronus> Dumbledore did not sacrifice himself for anyone but Harry [15:54] <JaneMarple9> perhaps had a spell to defend them [15:54] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree expie. i think he didn't want Draco and Harry to fight [15:54] <MirandaV> Or he may have died himself Jane...and that would have been bad [15:54] <ProngsPatronus> it has always been Harry [15:54] <futureweasley> he's Dumbledore...he has an uncanny way of knowing stuff [15:54] <memyslfnI> yes PP! [15:55] <Expelliarmas> I think he wanted Draco to come over to the good side [15:55] <Aislinn> I don't know that he knew exactly what was to come, cbm, I think it was about seeing Draco for what he was, among other things [15:55] <fawkes28> he asked for Snape didn't he? [15:55] <MirandaV> Harry is the only one who can finish this...not any one else [15:55] <Love4Fawkes> For whatever reason things had to happen the way they did that night and DD couldn't let Harry interfer [15:55] <futureweasley> I think DD feared for Draco's pureness of heart and sould [15:55] <ProngsPatronus> he asked for Snape after the ring incident, too [15:55] <cbm> He did not know how Draco got the DEs into the school [15:55] <JaneMarple9> yes i think dumble wanted draco to come good [15:55] <MirandaV> Well, he was mistakenly trusting him fawkes... biggrin [15:55] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, fawkes, DD was still under the illusion that Snape would help him [15:55] <Expelliarmas> But Draco had to make the decision himself; not after fighting Harry [15:55] *** antonin has quit [Bye] [15:55] *** antonin has joined #lounge [15:55] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he didn't want harry to hate Draco. i think he knew harry used that spell on draco...he was trying to protect both [15:55] <fawkes28> No, he knew he was going to die and wanted Harry not to interfere [15:55] <ProngsPatronus> seeing harry might have stiffened Draco's resolve [15:55] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> At least Harry and Dumbledore got a few answers [15:56] <futureweasley> What did you make of Dumbledore's statement: "After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." Did it seem that Dumbledore made organized plans for his death and the loss that would mean to Harry and the Order? [15:56] <cbm> Draco could have easily decided to do the AK [15:56] <dumbleydore18> DD didn't want Draco to be like his father, having a kill under his belt at such a young age [15:56] <Aislinn> that's an excellent point, Prongs [15:56] <Expelliarmas> Draco didn't make the decision easily though, cbm [15:56] <Aislinn> he would have felt he needed to follow through, for appearance sake [15:56] <MirandaV> gp Prongs [15:56] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [15:56] <JaneMarple9> hmmm had lucius killed at a young age? [15:56] *** SillyPutty has joined #lounge [15:56] <Expelliarmas> in the end, he couldn't make the decision at all [15:56] <fawkes28> Yes, I fully agree that DD made organized plans for his death [15:56] <MrMcGonagall> No, although I think that DD was prepared for death and didn't fear it. [15:56] <cbm> I know and the decision Draco made suprised me [15:56] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he had a plan B. He knew that one day he would not be there for Harry [15:56] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi Cloudpic and SillyPutty! [15:57] <ProngsPatronus> I think DD hid Harry so he would have a chance to talk to Drco "alone" [15:57] * cloudpic waves at all [15:57] <antonin> hi cloudpic! [15:57] <SillyPutty> hey [15:57] <JaneMarple9> hi cloud and silly [15:57] <fawkes28> DD had it all worked out [15:57] <futureweasley> I see DD as VERY organized...and that his death will truly be an adventure for those attempting to treasure hunt for DD's information [15:57] <antonin> hi sillyputty! [15:57] <JaneMarple9> bye1 [15:57] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:57] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:57] <futureweasley> repeat of the q: What did you make of Dumbledore's statement: "After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." Did it seem that Dumbledore made organized plans for his death and the loss that would mean to Harry and the Order? [15:57] <memyslfnI> Aaah! Dumbledore the true alchemist! He will live on as long as those who still are loyal to him are around! His legacy is his afterlife [15:57] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> Hi cloudpic, hi Silly putty [15:57] <VBug119> I think he left Harry something to help him finish off LV [15:57] <JaneMarple9> yes he seems to have everything planned out [15:57] <dumbleydore18> I think from this Harry must "die" (not truley die, think Evanna's Theory) and "death" his going to be a part of Harry's next great adventure, finding out in death how to defeat Voldy [15:57] <SillyPutty> yes I do... [15:57] <cloudpic> I agree, VBug119 [15:57] <MirandaV> I think DDs statement meant he was willing and ready to die and that he had everything well-organized [15:57] <cbm> I will be very interested to see what DD had planned and how that will effect Harry's plans [15:57] <Love4Fawkes> I think dd had it all planned out [15:58] <SillyPutty> but I don't think he realized the impact it would tryly have [15:58] <Aislinn> I imagine that DD did make plans for that eventuality [15:58] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> He also corrected Draco for calling people mudbloods. [15:58] <ProngsPatronus> I think, while Dumbledore did ot fear death, and certainly made plans in the event that he was killed, he did not seek death [15:58] <memyslfnI> I think that PP, in her blood essay, is right on the money! DD will leave Harry his pensieve and he will see all that he never was able to show him [15:58] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, I agree PP [15:58] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> That is something Snape, as Draco's housemaster, should have done earlier [15:58] <Expelliarmas> DD was not afraid of death; but I don't know that he made "plans" for it; I think it just meant he wasn't afraid of it [15:58] <MirandaV> I loved that he was unfailingly polite...even in death...I thought that was wonderful [15:58] <MirandaV> I agree PP [15:58] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Prongs [15:58] <SillyPutty> but if he did know... why didn't he say something of like should hogwarts stay open? [15:58] <fawkes28> he knew at the cave that night that he was going to die when he said to Harry, "I am with you." [15:58] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I did too, Miranda [15:58] <Aislinn> There will definitely be information of some sort for Harry that has been left by DD [15:59] <MafaldaWeasley> i think he must have left some guidance, Expie. I don't think he would not have thoughjt of the possibility of him dying [15:59] <futureweasley> SeverineSnape mentions that in this essay, too. I think it's very probable that will happen. The pensieve will go to Harry, and all the knowledge that DD amassed will be available to Harry on demand [15:59] <MirandaV> I'm hoping for some pensieve time myself [15:59] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I have to go...great chat so far! [15:59] <cloudpic> If he organized his mind, I'm assuming he organized his "effects" as well.. [15:59] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Bye guys! [15:59] <futureweasley> bye Ravenclaws [15:59] *** Ravenclaws_Heir left #lounge [] [15:59] <MirandaV> bye Raven [15:59] <MafaldaWeasley> bye Rave [15:59] <JaneMarple9> of course he did cloud [15:59] <antonin> me too, miranda [15:59] <MirandaV> I'm sure he has a very detailed will [15:59] <JaneMarple9> he planned for everything [15:59] <Love4Fawkes> I agree miranda [16:00] <WaggaWaggaWerewolf> Maybe not. It isn't about having a detailed will [16:00] <futureweasley> SeverineSnape points out that there were increasing mentions of Dumbledore's looking "old, weary and fragile." We all felt shock at Dumbledore's blackened and withered hand. Did Dumbledore know his death was coming soon? [16:00] <JaneMarple9> yes Miranda - he will have left harry a few things [16:00] <fawkes28> yes! [16:00] <JaneMarple9> well he was a old wizard [16:00] <SillyPutty> gotta run! [16:00] <SillyPutty> bye [16:00] *** SillyPutty left #lounge [] [16:00] <Expelliarmas> DD looked plenty old and tired after the events of the graveyard [16:00] <MafaldaWeasley> Yeah, i think it doesn't concern a will. i think what is important, fawkes has it kept in secret [16:00] <cloudpic> I wonder if he "knew" it was as soon as it turned out to be... [16:00] <MrMcGonagall> I think he knew it couldn't be that far off. [16:00] <memyslfnI> I am so reminded of the fisher king when I first read that in HBP! [16:00] <cbm> I think so, but I do not think he thought he would die that night [16:00] <MirandaV> I think he knew that he was getting old, even for a wizard, so in that sense yes [16:00] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he would have died anyway. [16:00] <cloudpic> Unless that "hand" thing was something more than just an injury [16:01] *** Punky has quit [Bye] [16:01] <antonin> i dunno [16:01] *** MrMcGonagall has quit [Bye] [16:01] <fawkes28> then why did he say, "I am with you" to Harry, cbm? [16:01] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [16:01] <futureweasley> it's possible that DD was dead because of the blackened withered hand. Snape could have stoppard his death so he could live long enough to help Harry one more year. Aislinn said tghat, and I think it's accurate [16:01] *** Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [16:01] <ProngsPatronus> I don't know that he expected to die [16:01] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [16:01] *** antonin has quit [Bye] [16:01] *** Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [16:01] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [16:01] <cloudpic> Maybe that's what they were arguing about, future? [16:01] <Expelliarmas> DD was not dead, he was very much alive throughout HBP [16:01] <MirandaV> He said I'm not worried because I am with you though...I don't think he meant death personally [16:01] <fawkes28> that is true, future [16:01] <futureweasley> very possible [16:01] <Aislinn> I think he knew - that was why he personally visited the Dursleys and asked them to take Harry back, as he knew he wouldn't be around to do it the next year [16:01] <memyslfnI> He was certainly able to use it well when he was with the Dursleys [16:01] <MirandaV> or that he was with him in death [16:01] <ProngsPatronus> I think the possibility, though, was becoming clearer to him as the year went on, and the hand did not heal [16:01] <fawkes28> i agree, Aislinn [16:01] <ProngsPatronus> those who love, hope [16:02] <futureweasley> Expie, what if Snape helped to stop DD from dying [16:02] <MrMcGonagall> I believe Dd knew it was only a matter of time. [16:02] <memyslfnI> like Arthur's wounds from Nagini Prongs! [16:02] <cloudpic> Oh... that's an interesting observation, Aislinn [16:02] <ProngsPatronus> there was always hope that he would survive [16:02] <MafaldaWeasley> i think he did, i think he just had time enough to keep things right. I think hedidn't think he would have been killed by Snape [16:02] <Expelliarmas> delaying the death, is not the same thing as being dead [16:02] <fawkes28> once i saw the hand - i knew that it wouldnt be healed This post has been edited by Expelliarmas: Mar 18 2007, 04:27 PM --------------------  All Aboard! |
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