Poll: The Great Snape Debate - Part - 3, What is your opinion of Snape ? Did he redeem himself ? |
 Apr 24 2009, 09:23 AM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary  Posts: 4,980 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss.  |
Part 2 of the very popular Snape thread had to be closed for it had reached its 50th page - the maximum according to Leaky's rules. Here's a nice new thread to continue discussing the enigmatic potions master - Severus Snape.  Thanks to harrydavid who came up with the idea for this poll which has gone on to its 3rd thread.  The last page of Part 1 of this poll can be found here and last page of Part 2 here. Happy voting and discussing ! rowena. LL. Mod.  --------------------  L O V E |
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Apr 30 2009, 04:51 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 39 Joined: 5:11pm July 12, 2007 |
I always thought Snape could go either way - ok, he kept hs promise to keep Harry safe, but he was in a position that really he could easily ave went back should he mood have taken him. I think deep in his heart he was a true Slythein and death eater.
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May 2 2009, 01:05 AM
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Assistant Shopkeeper at Flourish and Blotts Posts: 1,594 Joined: 4:38pm June 27, 2005  |
Has there been much discussion as to Snape's role as a double agent? Snape was pretending that he was still a DE in good standing and was using his contacts with them to keep DD informed of their activities. Snape also taught the children of DE and needed to insure that he did nothing in word or deed which would lead them to tell their parents anything which would lead the parents to question their trust of him.
In other words, if Snape wished to maintain the trust of DE, he had to act in the classroom how a loyal DE would be expected to act. At the beginning of the books, Harry said that Snape favoured Draco specifically, but later Harry said that Snape favoured Slytherins. We much later learn of DD using Snape to keep tabs of Draco's activities. Are these unrelated facts or did DD insist that Snape gain Draco's trust and favour from the beginning? Snape genuinely hated Harry because he thought Harry was James's mini-me. However, Junior (as Moody) was not all that fond of Harry either, but pretended to befriend him and to like him. This leads to the question as to whether it would have been eventually prudent for Snape to fake a dislike for Harry if one did not already exist. |
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May 2 2009, 08:35 AM
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Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 682 Joined: 6:54pm August 3, 2008 Location: New York, NY |
QUOTE(vaudree @ May 2 2009, 02:05 AM)  Has there been much discussion as to Snape's role as a double agent? Snape was pretending that he was still a DE in good standing and was using his contacts with them to keep DD informed of their activities. Snape also taught the children of DE and needed to insure that he did nothing in word or deed which would lead them to tell their parents anything which would lead the parents to question their trust of him. In other words, if Snape wished to maintain the trust of DE, he had to act in the classroom how a loyal DE would be expected to act. At the beginning of the books, Harry said that Snape favoured Draco specifically, but later Harry said that Snape favoured Slytherins. We much later learn of DD using Snape to keep tabs of Draco's activities. Are these unrelated facts or did DD insist that Snape gain Draco's trust and favour from the beginning? Snape genuinely hated Harry because he thought Harry was James's mini-me. However, Junior (as Moody) was not all that fond of Harry either, but pretended to befriend him and to like him. This leads to the question as to whether it would have been eventually prudent for Snape to fake a dislike for Harry if one did not already exist. But on the other hand, befriending Harry and being kind to him might actually be how a loyal DE is supposed to act. Most former DEs put a lot of effort into renouncing LV, and renouncing LV means liking Harry Potter. Lucius Malfoy told Draco that it was not prudent to appear less than fond of Harry Potter. True, Lucius and Draco never put much effort into pretending to like Harry. But perhaps a cool cat like Snape -- especially a cool cat under DD's thumb -- might be expected to be able to show more restraint. So, Snape's blatant, undisguised loathing of Harry might actually make his fellow DEs question him, more than it would allay any doubts they had about him. But then again, even if they wondered why Snape didn't show some restraint, and pretend to like Harry, how could they possibly put the other pieces of the puzzle together, and figure out that Snape loved Lily Potter, and asked LV to spare her, and switched sides, etc., etc. I don't see how anybody could figure the whole story out, just from one odd bit of behavior on Snape's part. |
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May 2 2009, 01:19 PM
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Leaky Lounge Over Achiever  Posts: 9,330 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ May 2 2009, 02:35 PM) So, Snape's blatant, undisguised loathing of Harry might actually make his fellow DEs question him, more than it would allay any doubts they had about him. It depends who is watching. The problem that Lucius raises about appearing less than fond of Harry is with regard to how the rest of the wizarding world might view them, but the person Snape has to convince is Voldemort when he returns and the other death eaters (since Dumbledore has ensured that Snape doesn't need to worry about the rest of the wizarding world). Voldemort might well find someone showing a dislike for Harry as more loyal than someone who didn't.Of course Fake Moody had a good reason for pretending to like Harry, as indeed did Diary Riddle with Ginny, because it was necessary to Voldemort's plan, so that tells us nothing about other death eaters should behave. --------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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May 2 2009, 01:48 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 36 Joined: 2:37am December 29, 2008 Location: California |
So Snape turned out to be good in the end, but if Lily had not been killed he would have remained on the bad side. His only motivation to become good was to make it up to Lily. Plus it was totally unnecessary for him to treat Harry and the other students the way he did. All of my friends try to defend him by saying he had a bad childhood, but if everyone who had a bad childhood turned out like Snape it would be horrible. Snape is very close to my least favorite character only beaten out by Bellatrix and Draco
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May 2 2009, 01:58 PM
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Quality Quidditch Supplies Test-Flyer Posts: 1,279 Joined: 3:47pm November 27, 2006 Location: Dublin |
Well that's the thing. Snape has two different sides to play to. He has to keep in mind that Voldemort/Death Eaters will expect him to dislike the person who defeated Voldemort and to treat him unfavourably. He also has to put on a show to his fellow teachers, Dumbledore, students and parents of the "good" side, that he's one of the good guys. So these people will expect him to be nice to the boy who lived.
So surely the best thing, the thing that couldn't be disputed by either side, would be to treat Harry with complete indifference. He doesn't have to be friendly, he doesn't have to smile, he doesn't have to treat him like a favourite. But I don't see the sense in being completely horrible to him. Just be tough but fair with him, like McGonagall is most of the time, just with the shows of benevolence and favouritism that McGonagall sometimes produces. Treat him like any other student that he has no reason to particularly like or dislike. |
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May 2 2009, 07:19 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 37 Joined: 8:29am August 28, 2007 Location: Stealing Lupin from Grimmauld Place |
In all honesty, that would be the intelligent way to go about it. To be indifferent to Harry.
The problem is, you're adding in someone who looks identical to the guy who tormented you throughout school and then married the person, the one person, who'd been nice to you and you loved completely. I'm not defending Snape and his actions, but that's how it was for him. It was James all over again, but worse. Harry was good at quidditch and very popular (worldwide, not jsut at scool like James was) and Snape spent his time trying to prove how James wasnt't as great as everyone made him out to be, so he does the same with Harry. If Harry looked like his mother and was in slytherin, things would have been so different. But here is a living breathing reminder of everything you detested, proof that the woman you loved hated you and that she's now dead and that the best part of her, her eyes, is surrounded by James, your enemy. Deep inside I'm sure Snape admired Harry, thats what jealousy realy is anyway. But he was too hurt and far stubborn to ever let himself show anything like that. He can't let go of his grudge against James at that point. -------------------- Albus Dumbledore: "Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy."
Tonks and Lupin, unleashing mutli-coloured werewolf puppies on the world one day at a time! Oh! Voldy, if Draco says no, can I babysit them? Please!!! |
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 May 6 2009, 05:49 PM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 4 Joined: 9:59pm August 14, 2008 |
"If you don't mind dying," said Snape roughly, "why not let Draco do it?" "That boy's soul is not yet so damaged," said Dumbledore. "I would not have it ripped apart on my account." "And my soul, Dumbledore? Mine?" "You alone know whether it will harm your soul to help an old man avoid pain and humiliation," said Dumbledore. "I ask this one great favor of you, Severus, because death is coming for me [...]." -DH, Prince's Tale Was Dumbledore the only person Snape ever killed? How involved was Snape in his Death Eater days, did he murder those out of orders or maybe even pure pleasure? It is my personal belief that, yes, he did kill others, whether in his Death Eater days or even during his time in the Order, or even his younger years in Hogwarts. Snape did not seem at all troubled, in a sense, of killing Dumbledore. He even asked if he should do it right at that moment, so that might also mean he's used to the idea of it, and has cast the Killing Curse before. And while a Death Eater, how does one get into Voldemort's inner circle? You would have to earn his trust, and I believe it would be hard for him not to gain trust in those who had not killed before. Which side are you for, do you believe Dumbledore was the only one Snape killed? Snape was concerned for his soul, so that might mean that he hasn't killed anyone before in the past. A friend of mine said that they didn't think Snape was the type of person who would kill anyone else -- that Dumbledore's murder was something different, and it definitely was. But in the past, Snape was a different man. He was obsessed with the Dark Arts, and even in Harry's years he was still fascinated by it. And so what do you think? -------------------- do you take pride in being an insufferable know-it-all? |
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May 7 2009, 01:12 PM
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#10
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 97 Joined: 7:48am June 18, 2007 |
A conclusive answer to this question will probably never be given, except by JKR (and then it still won't be canon). As a result I actually won't take any sides in this. I'll list several arguments for both positions.
Snape didn't kill anyone else:
Snape did kill someone else: Death Eater: Snape was a Death Eater. Voldemort's followers are terrorists, who don't mind killing anyone who stands in their way. It is hard to believe Snape wasn't somehow involved in murdering opponents. Occlumency: Snape was a skilled Occlumens, possibly the most skilled of them all. He fooled Voldemort into thinking he was loyal to him. It is not impossible that, despite his loyalty to the Order, Snape used Occlumency to keep Dumbledore in the dark about any crimes he may have committed. Abusive household: Snape was born into an abusive household. He was used to violence and he doesn't seem to have any problems using violence when it suits his needs. The murder of Dumbledore: Snape went through with killing Dumbledore. Unlike Draco he didn't hesitate and killed him straightaway, just like that. Perhaps this is the hallmark of an experienced killer. Snape's soul: Snape complains about the integrity of his soul. Perhaps it was broken and in the process of being healed. Remorse heals a broken soul. His repentance for his former murders may have caused his broken soul to heal and Snape didn't want to jeopardize this process. |
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