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Poll: Who could have been left out of the story ?, How would it have changed the story ?

Who could have been left out of the story ?
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Total Votes: 165
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rowena r View Member Profile	Apr 6 2009, 08:55 AM Post #1
Dumbledore's Personal Secretary Posts: 4,717 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss.	We've all wondered about what would have happened to the HP saga if a certain event hadn't occurred - the overhearing of the prophecy, Pettigrew being made the secret-keeper, etc. But how about wondering what would have happened if a certain character had been left out of the story ? Not substituted, but omitted altogether. Main characters like Harry, Dumbledore, Snape and Voldemort have been left out of this poll for I don't think there can be Harry Potter without Harry Potter if you know what I mean. And the other three are just as important to the central story, so we will leave them out too. James and Lily, being Harry's parents, have also been left out for there would be no Harry Potter without them. We will also not consider characters like Piers Polkiss, Mer-chieftainess Murcus, Mark Evans, DE Jugson, etc; as their exclusion would have no great effect upon the story. So please do not think we have done a great disservice to the memory of the Wailing Widow (from Kent) by not according her a place on the list of options. So, the person you vote for will be someone who is not a character without whom the story would have been impossible, but someone without whom the story would have been very different indeed. This poll is for asking you who you think could have been left out of the HP series and how do you think it would have changed the story on the whole ? You can vote for more than one person. Having made the rationale of the poll options clear, I wish you happy voting and happier commenting. Cheers ! This post has been edited by rowena r: Apr 9 2009, 08:58 AM --------------------

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Replies (10 - 19)

RaWr...WeReWoLf View Member Profile	Apr 10 2009, 04:57 PM Post #11
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 19 Joined: 4:37pm April 7, 2009 Location: Hogwarts!!	i think molly could have been left out. i like her, but i don't think she was really a big part of the story. yes, she was also a motherly figure to harry, but besides that she wasn't much. i hope that didn't sound too harsh... -------------------- Remus and Tonks True Love ♥

WaggaWaggaWerewo... WaggaWaggaWerewolf View Member Profile	Apr 11 2009, 02:48 AM Post #12
Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,607 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release	With some misgivings I voted for the Dursleys. I know they minded Harry and all, but they were a nuisance and a pain in the neck who didn't contribute to the series story line as much as they might have done. Well Warners seems to agree with me, since they have been so resolutely left out of some of the movies. Slughorn was another possibility, but I think JKR needed someone to take over the running of Slytherin House once Snape was made Headmaster. Someone who wasn't going to be too obnoxious and who wasn't a fan of the DE's. As for Bellatrix, she has to be LV's Lieutenant Baddie and love interest, now doesn't she? And yes, it was a hard choice to make. -------------------- Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club

wickedboy View Member Profile	Apr 11 2009, 03:50 AM Post #13
Daily Prophet Photographer Posts: 881 Joined: 1:35am January 6, 2007	QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ Apr 9 2009, 08:00 AM) What? Snape is the second most important character in the series, after Harry! The whole story couldn't have happened without Snape! The question was "who could have been left out, and how would it have changed the story". Technically, the series could not have happened as it did without any of the people on your list and many more besides - if the story was to go as it did. Perhaps that is not the question that was meant to be posed? Certainly many people are answering in terms of "who leaving wouldn't change the storyline - or at least not change it too much" - but that was not the question. The question didn't ask who could be left out and the story not change - and I opine that applies to nobody. The story necessarily changes in some respect if you leave anyone out. So I just gave my opinion of who would best be left out and why I felt that way. For me it is definitely Snape. Would the story have to change? Sure, just like it would if you left out Sirius or Lupin or Moody, the Dursleys, Hagrid, Umbridge or Dumbledore. But I would like it better without Snape. Then I feel there would be: no unfair and unnecessary torment for Harry at school; no overt disrespect shown for the dead by a supposed good sider; no venom and cruel bullying shown to the children on a regular basis: no love sick motivation, and in the epilogue, Harry wouldn't have let me down. So for me it was an easy choice: Snape. The story would change, but there isn't one thing about that which I care about. Replace anything necessary with another or change a few details and I am fine with it. The gist of the story is Harry vanquishing the dark lord Voldemort. Without Voldy, there is no "main tale" - so I feel he and Harry are the only two absolutely crucial characters - but only in terms of needing a "hero" and "villain". Technically, you could change them for others of a different character type as well, and the story would change - but I personally wouldn't like that change. But it is all hypothetical, I like the series as is too - it is just that if someone had to go...well for me, Snape would be the character. This post has been edited by wickedboy: Apr 11 2009, 06:46 AM -------------------- In Every Age, A Hero Rises...

Lucette View Member Profile	Apr 11 2009, 11:53 AM Post #14
Firebolt-Polisher at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 1,088 Joined: 4:38pm June 27, 2005	QUOTE The question was "who could have been left out, and how would it have changed the story". Those are technically two distinct questions. Who could have been left out without it being a big deal and how would the story have been different if they were left out. The first question goes to the relative importance of the character and the second implies marvel comics like alternate universes. For example, Hermione had a choice between being in Gryffindor and Ravenclaw and chose Gryffindor. If Ron did not exist, which house would she have been in. If you are a H-R shipper (even reluctantly), then you would probably presume that she would be in Ravenclaw. If you are a H-H shipper, then you would presume that Hermione would still be in Gryffindor. Thus, Ron's nonexistance gives us two potential universes as far as what happens to Hermione. QUOTE The story necessarily changes in some respect if you leave anyone out. True enough. And if the person had a purpose, then you have to decide whether their purpose is left unmet or if someone else fills the purpose. For example, there are minor profs at Hogwarts that we barely hear about - and whose Houses we know not. I doubt that Snape was the only Slytherin prof before Slughorn joined and I doubt that McG was the only Gryffindor prof before Hagrid joined. Charity Burbage had to belong to some house or another and it would have been nice to have known a bit more about her before she was wiped off the face of the earth. QUOTE Then I feel there would be: no unfair and unnecessary torment for Harry at school; no overt disrespect shown for the dead by a supposed good sider; no venom and cruel bullying shown to the children on a regular basis: no love sick motivation, and in the epilogue, Harry wouldn't have let me down. How did Harry let you down in the epilogue? What did he do? Are you talking about Black in HBP Ch 2 or James in general? QUOTE I know they minded Harry and all, but they were a nuisance and a pain in the neck who didn't contribute to the series story line as much as they might have done. So they should be left out because they did not have more of a purpose in the story? If I get you right, their ink space was larger than their role in the stories, in your opinion. I wonder what it means (or meant) when one's ink space hints at a larger role and then seems to get scaled back. Was their story considered to peripheral to the main plot so it was left out or did JKR change her mind about something? QUOTE Molly Weasley - She kills Bellatrix, END OF STORY. This is a trick one, she needs to exist, at least to the extent that Luna's mother did - because wizard children are not grown in fields like in the Matrix series - but born. If Molly was not to exist at all, either Arthur would need to have been married to someone else or none of his children would have existed at all. What about the story if Molly had died giving birth to Ginny - that would allow all the other characters to exist while writing her out of the books? How would not having a mother affect Ginny and Ron and Percy and the twins? How would it have changed them?

LilaCatsfoot View Member Profile	Apr 11 2009, 01:27 PM Post #15
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 127 Joined: 10:57pm January 10, 2006 Location: In the library	I voted for Tonks. I like the character, but I don't feel like she was really necessary for anything. I also considered Luna: I LOVE Luna, but I don't know how important she is. I guess she provides a tie to Xenophilius who knew about the Deathly Hallows. But he could have been introduced in some other way. Or the Hallows could have been. If I had realized that I could vote for more than one character, I might have voted for Bellatrix. She's just another bad guy, in my opinion. I like having all of these characters. Even the ones who don't have a huge impact on absolutely crucial parts of the plot add to the complex tapestry that is Harry Potter. They add color and detail and richness to the story. And that's what's so great about the series: it gives us a window into this very real, detailed wizarding world. Well done, Jo! -------------------- Fight Evil ~ Read Books Daughter, friends, and me as Molly Weasley

Wendall View Member Profile	Apr 11 2009, 03:30 PM Post #16
Gringotts Goblin Translator Posts: 1,237 Joined: 3:47pm November 27, 2006 Location: Dublin	QUOTE(vaudree @ Apr 11 2009, 05:53 PM) Those are technically two distinct questions. Who could have been left out without it being a big deal and how would the story have been different if they were left out. The first question goes to the relative importance of the character and the second implies marvel comics like alternate universes. For example, Hermione had a choice between being in Gryffindor and Ravenclaw and chose Gryffindor. If Ron did not exist, which house would she have been in. If you are a H-R shipper (even reluctantly), then you would probably presume that she would be in Ravenclaw. If you are a H-H shipper, then you would presume that Hermione would still be in Gryffindor. Thus, Ron's nonexistance gives us two potential universes as far as what happens to Hermione. Hermione didn't choose Gryffindor over Ravenclaw. The sorting hat chose Gryffindor for her after considering Ravenclaw. The kids don't choose their own house. QUOTE How did Harry let you down in the epilogue? What did he do? Are you talking about Black in HBP Ch 2 or James in general? I may be wrong, but I think Wickedboy was referring to the fact that Harry named one of his children after a man who had made his life a misery for six years.

Lucette View Member Profile	Apr 11 2009, 10:15 PM Post #17
Firebolt-Polisher at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 1,088 Joined: 4:38pm June 27, 2005	Wickedboy, does Wendall have it right? Seriously both of you, I would like some better idea of what you think the HP universe would have looked like if Severus Snape was never born - if Eileen thwarted Tobias's advances at least as much as Helena Ravenclaw did the Bloody Baron's (Eileen and Helena share a common name origin). Would some of what Snape did remain undone or would another existing character need to fill some of the purposes Snape did in the books? What would James and Black have been like if Snape had never existed? etc? QUOTE Hermione didn't choose Gryffindor over Ravenclaw. The sorting hat chose Gryffindor for her after considering Ravenclaw. The kids don't choose their own house. Yes and no. The hat does make the final decision, but considers the student's wishes before making it (DD's famous "It is our choices" speech): p. 245 (COS 18) – ‘Yet the Sorting Hat placed you in Gryffindor. You know why that was. Think.’ ‘It only put me in Gryffindor,’ / ‘because I asked not to go in Slytherin …’ ‘Exactly,’ p. 245 (COS 18) – ‘Which makes you very different from Tom Riddle. It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.’ p. 353 (OOTP 19) – ‘How come you’re not in Ravenclaw?’ he demanded, staring at Hermione with something close to wonder. ‘With brains like yours? p. 353 (OOTP 19) – ‘With brains like yours?’ ‘Well, the Sorting Hat did seriously consider putting me in Ravenclaw during my Sorting,’ said Hermione brightly, ‘but it decided on Gryffindor in the end. …’ I think that there may be limits to this as well in that one can't get sorted into a House that one is totally unqualified to be in - that if one has no qualities associated with a House, that one would be off the table. In Hermione's case, both Ravenclaw and Gryffindor were on the table. Padma and Parvati were twins but sorted into separate houses. My guess is that the difference between the two is that Parvati wanted to be in the same house as LavLav. LavLav is definitely not Ravenclaw material. Come to think of it, if Hermione was participating in this pole, she would have voted LavLav off the HP island! Think of it, Hermione had to share a dorm with LavLav - which could not have been pleasant! Listening to LavLav rave about Trelawney whom she knew was a fraud. The endless gossiping. The endless discussion as to which wizards she thought were hot - both before, during and after dating Ron. Lavender liked bunnies, unicorns and handsome centaurs and was afraid of mice - and was sort of anti-intellectual, to put it nicely. How important is any of that for the plot - according to Hermione, any way! If LavLav did not exist, the Patil twins would probably be in the same house and Hermione would only have two roomies in her dorm. If LavLav did not exist, Ginny's indiscretion dropped to get Ron off her back and onto Hermione's would have still happened. Ron would have still been pissed off at Hermione, Hermione would still not know why. However, Ron would have been spending his spare time with Harry rather than LavLav. Hermione would have never went through the headache of seducing Cormac the Octipus to try to make Ron feel as bad (ie jealous) as she felt. Ron and Hermione would have gotten back together more quickly and with less suffering from Hermione. Then again, if Hermione and Ron got together without Ron's diversion, then when Ron reached male menopause, he may have figured that he missed out. LavLav did prevent Ron from wondering because he already knows what he is missing out on by not being with Hermione - meaningless physical involvement (not sure if you can even call it lust) without emotional attachment. Still, if given a choice, Hermione would have insisted that JKR exclude LavLav from the books. Who would Ron have excluded from the books? Why? And what would the results of such and exclusion be?

Mrs_Linnea_Snape View Member Profile	Apr 12 2009, 03:47 AM Post #18
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 682 Joined: 6:54pm August 3, 2008 Location: New York, NY	QUOTE(wickedboy @ Apr 11 2009, 04:50 AM) QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ Apr 9 2009, 08:00 AM) What? Snape is the second most important character in the series, after Harry! The whole story couldn't have happened without Snape! The question was "who could have been left out, and how would it have changed the story". Technically, the series could not have happened as it did without any of the people on your list and many more besides - if the story was to go as it did. Perhaps that is not the question that was meant to be posed? Certainly many people are answering in terms of "who leaving wouldn't change the storyline - or at least not change it too much" - but that was not the question. The question didn't ask who could be left out and the story not change - and I opine that applies to nobody. The story necessarily changes in some respect if you leave anyone out. So I just gave my opinion of who would best be left out and why I felt that way. For me it is definitely Snape. Would the story have to change? Sure, just like it would if you left out Sirius or Lupin or Moody, the Dursleys, Hagrid, Umbridge or Dumbledore. But I would like it better without Snape. Then I feel there would be: no unfair and unnecessary torment for Harry at school; no overt disrespect shown for the dead by a supposed good sider; no venom and cruel bullying shown to the children on a regular basis: no love sick motivation, and in the epilogue, Harry wouldn't have let me down. So for me it was an easy choice: Snape. The story would change, but there isn't one thing about that which I care about. Replace anything necessary with another or change a few details and I am fine with it. The gist of the story is Harry vanquishing the dark lord Voldemort. Without Voldy, there is no "main tale" - so I feel he and Harry are the only two absolutely crucial characters - but only in terms of needing a "hero" and "villain". Technically, you could change them for others of a different character type as well, and the story would change - but I personally wouldn't like that change. But it is all hypothetical, I like the series as is too - it is just that if someone had to go...well for me, Snape would be the character. I thought the question was, "who could have been left out of the story, without the story changing too much?" That is, who isn't crucial to the story? For example, if Hagrid weren't in the story, J.K. would've had to find a new way for Harry to discover the wizarding world, and new ways for the Trio to obtain certain crucial information. But it could be done, without changing too much of the story. I don't think the question was, "Who do you want to see left out of the story, just because you don't like them?" Which is essentially the question you are answering. A poll like that would be pointless, since it would be nothing but personal opinions, and no debating the canon. The question, I believe, was, "who could have been left out of the story?" That is, who wasn't essential to the story? Who wasn't crucial to the plot? And Snape could not have been left out of the story. He is crucial. His love for Lily is what sets the whole story in motion. And his actions are crucial to the plot of every book (except, arguably, CoS and GoF). The story would be virtually unrecognizable without Snape. It is certainly not true that LV and Harry are the only two essential characters. Do you really think that DD could have been left out of the story? Or Ron? Or Hermione? Or Lily? Or James? If Harry and LV were the only two people in the story, LV wouldn't even be hunting Harry down in the first place. There wouldn't even be a story. And, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but: J.K. herself has said that the HP series is as much Snape's story as it is Harry's. So J.K. herself apparently thinks that Snape was a crucial character. This post has been edited by Mrs_Linnea_Snape: Apr 12 2009, 05:35 AM

hg1 View Member Profile	Apr 12 2009, 05:14 AM Post #19
Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 261 Joined: 7:51am May 14, 2005 Location: Cologne	Sirius could have been left out. Ultimately, nothing that he did really mattered all that much. I also voted for Tonks and McGongall. I like all of these characters, but writing them out wouldn't realy change anything, same for Arthur. Molly, on the other hand, I find very important. Not even because she killeld Bella, but because she was Harry's only real mother figure, while he had several father figures. --------------------

Lucette View Member Profile	Apr 12 2009, 10:36 AM Post #20
Firebolt-Polisher at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 1,088 Joined: 4:38pm June 27, 2005	QUOTE I thought the question was, "who could have been left out of the story, without the story changing too much?" Which is why I think there should be more exploration as to what would have changed if a particular character was left out. That is the only way we can figure out how much of an impact the leaving out of a character would have. Also, about the Snape debate - I am sure that if we take this to the level as to how things would change if Snape never existed both those who figure that Snape could have been left out and that Snape was essential to the story would find a certain degree of agreement. Lily would have gotten her letter and started Hogwarts knowing basically nothing about the wizarding world. James/Black and Mulciber/Avery would have still competed for biggest bullies in the school until Mulciber upped the anti by becoming affiliated with Voldemort. Both James and Mulciber liked to make themselves feel good by humiliating their victims. The difference being that James (like Draco) was not a murderer. Slughorn would have still have elected himself as the person who decides which students are more worthy than the others of life's rewards. Someone would have still overheard Trelawney telling DD the prophesy and would have still passed on the information to Voldemort. However, this person would not regret doing so and would feel no obligation to spend the rest of his life protecting Harry. Quirrell Still would have tried to knock Harry off his broom in PS/SS - and may have succeeded. Add other examples. DD would have died the day he used the ring to see his family because Snape would not have been there to slow down the poisoning. DD would not have had a chance to pass on the information concerning Voldemort's past to Harry. Some DE would still be gloating with Bellatrix over Black's death, but would be more interested in improving their own status with Voldemort than gathering information for DD - and would have reported Narcissa's infraction to Voldemort - and Bellatrix for not reporting Narcissa's infraction herself. Harry would have blamed Molly for Black leaving Grimmauld Place and joining the battle at the Ministry. QUOTE same for Arthur. Molly, on the other hand, I find very important. Not even because she killeld Bella, but because she was Harry's only real mother figure, while he had several father figures. As I said before, Molly and Arthur would have to exist to at least the extent Luna's mother did (ie the children needed to have been born). But other than that ... JKR was planning to off Arthur but changed her mind. It does make a difference as to the personality of the kids which parent raised them, though. If Molly was alive (with Arthur dying while she was pregnant with Ginny) then Draco's taunt in the beginning of PS/SS would be about Ron being raised on welfare rather than the Weasleys having more kids than they could support. None of the kids would have been on the Quidditch team because Molly could not afford to buy them brooms. Molly would have been even more protective of her kids and would have pulled them all out of Hogwarts at the first sign of trouble. Harry would have to go through the process of making friends with Ron and then facing the school year completely without him. The twins would have been angrier because they would face criticism for not doing better in school without the softening influence of their father who admired the ingenuity behind their misbehaviour. Molly, without knowing about the ins and outs of what was going on at the Ministry, would be even more incline to believe Rita Skeeter and everything Umbridge et al wrote in the Daily Prophet. On the other hand, if Molly had died giving birth to Ginny, Arthur would have been left alone to raise the kids. Both Arthur and Xenos share some qualities: both are suspicious of the goings ons of the Ministry and both are attracted to what the wizarding world considers to be very esoteric forms of knowledge which they seem drawn to but do not fully understand. In the case of Xenos, ancient obscure texts and strange theories and animals and in the case of Arthur his fascination with Muggle paraphanilia - most especially batteries. Aunt Muriel would have helped out for the first couple of years until she said something that Arthur took offense to and then they would have parted ways never to see each other again. Percy would have been made to watch his younger brothers and sisters during the summers while his father worked at the Ministry. The children may have been put into Muggle school because Arthur would have had no other way to look after them while he was at work. Percy would have started Hogwarts two years late - in the same year and classes as the twins. Since they do not really remember their mother, the kids, especially Ginny and Ron, would have been very close to their father and would have been more likely to have wanted to share his fascination with Muggle stuff and to stand up for their father if someone made fun of his ideas. We would have ended up with a Ginny who was even more similar to Luna than she already is. Harry would have ended up with a Ron who may have been teased even by members of his own house because he kept talking about batteries (something that other wizards would find strange and muggle-borns would find stupid). Edited: accidentally wrote "harry" instead of "voldemort" This post has been edited by vaudree: Apr 12 2009, 10:45 AM

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