Reading Group Chat Transcript 7/22, Half Blood Secrets In The Prince's Chamber - Comparisons between C |
 Jul 22 2006, 02:15 PM
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Chief Cat Herder  Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!    |
Reading Group Leaders at the chat today included: L.J, cloudpic, Addreamy, and Estrella.
CB mods: Aislinn, andy the house elf, magicmeg8. [12:51] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [12:53] *** Estrella has joined #lounge [12:53] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [12:56] *** Topic: Half Blood Secrets In The Prince's Chamber - Comparisons between CoS and HBP (andythehouseelf) [12:56] *** andythehouseelf left #lounge [] [12:56] *** LJ has joined #lounge [12:56] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [12:58] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [12:59] *** gryffindelle has joined #lounge [13:00] *** Whisperwing has joined #lounge [13:00] <Aislinn> Hi everyone! [13:00] <Aislinn> I think I'm feeling blue today biggrin [13:00] <andythehouseelf> Hey guys! [13:00] <andythehouseelf> awwww poor Aislinn feeling blue LOL [13:01] <Aislinn> decided the green I usually use is too slytherin-y for me smile [13:01] <andythehouseelf> LOL. your ravenclaw now then! [13:01] <Aislinn> exactly! [13:01] <andythehouseelf> i should go maroon but thats Doris' favourite LOL [13:01] <LJ> ooh, I'm Gryff [13:02] <Aislinn> I'm a ravenpuff, but can't do blue and yellow [13:02] <andythehouseelf> Nooooo! You beat me! [13:02] *** atschpe has joined #lounge [13:02] <LJ> though I have Slyth in me too ;) [13:02] <andythehouseelf> Yes you do! With a certain 3 letter word! [13:03] <andythehouseelf> So how is everyone? [13:04] <gryffindelle> i'm getting a weird message whenever i hit enter, anyone know what it is [13:04] <gryffindelle> ? [13:04] <Whisperwing> There we go [13:04] <gryffindelle> its better now [13:04] *** Winky05 has joined #lounge [13:04] <andythehouseelf> Sorry guys we didnt notice! LOL [13:04] <Aislinn> welcome, welcome [13:04] <andythehouseelf> we wondered why you were quiet LD [13:04] <andythehouseelf> * biggrin [13:04] <LJ> hahaha [13:04] <LJ> we're a little slow today it seems [13:04] <Whisperwing> Hard to notice when you're one of the mods who's unaffected by that moderate, but you're forgiven [13:05] <andythehouseelf> awwww [13:05] <andythehouseelf> hehe [13:05] *** Estrella has quit [Bye] [13:05] <Winky05> Hello everyone! [13:05] <andythehouseelf> We need to check that from now on LOL [13:05] <Whisperwing> SO Trozam, ever get those monogrammed teatowels you asked for? [13:06] <Whisperwing> I know it was about thirty eight episodes ago... [13:07] <andythehouseelf> (I'll be read because L.J stole my maroon) [13:07] <Aislinn> congratulations to percy the prefect, percy the prefect, percy the prefect! [13:07] <LJ> red? [13:07] <Aislinn> :D [13:07] <Aislinn> biggrin [13:07] <andythehouseelf> oh yeah read biggrin [13:07] <andythehouseelf> *red! [13:07] <andythehouseelf> GAH! Whats wrong with me?!?! [13:07] <LJ> you're Andy [13:07] *** Val_Halla has joined #lounge [13:07] <andythehouseelf> LOL thanks [13:07] <LJ> does it need more explanation? [13:08] <andythehouseelf> sad [13:08] <andythehouseelf> hehe [13:08] <LJ> awww [13:08] <andythehouseelf> and thanks Aislinn [13:08] <Whisperwing> Aw [13:08] <LJ> :p [13:08] <Aislinn> better watch out, LJ - he might give you detention! [13:08] <andythehouseelf> LOL! [13:08] <LJ> haha [13:08] <andythehouseelf> shed kill me! [13:08] <LJ> I was a Prefect too you know [13:08] *** LJ has quit [Bye] [13:08] <Aislinn> were you? [13:08] <andythehouseelf> yeah! WOOT! [13:08] <andythehouseelf> oh and shes gone! [13:08] *** LJ has joined #lounge [13:09] <gryffindelle> when? [13:09] <gryffindelle> where? [13:09] <andythehouseelf> She was a prefect at school [13:09] *** LJ has quit [Bye] [13:09] <gryffindelle> oh [13:09] <gryffindelle> kool [13:10] <andythehouseelf> cool with a k wink [13:10] <gryffindelle> sry [13:10] *** atschpe has quit [Bye] [13:10] <Aislinn> we didn't have anything like that at my school [13:10] *** LJ has joined #lounge [13:10] <LJ> sorry, had to restart FF [13:10] <andythehouseelf> This will be the first time theyve done it at mine! [13:10] <gryffindelle> huh? [13:11] <Aislinn> having prefects and head boys and girls, gryff [13:11] <gryffindelle> oh [13:11] <gryffindelle> sry [13:11] *** atschpe has joined #lounge [13:11] <Aislinn> they really do that in some British schools [13:11] <gryffindelle> i know that [13:11] <LJ> haha yeah [13:11] <Aislinn> not in America though - at least, not any that I'm aware of [13:11] <LJ> JKR is amazing, but she didn't make that concept up tongue [13:11] <gryffindelle> you were confusing me for a sec [13:12] <gryffindelle> i realized that [13:12] <andythehouseelf> I'm stealing the maroon from LJ btw :P [13:12] *** Estrella has joined #lounge [[13:12] <LJ> I'll fight you for it Andy [13:13] <andythehouseelf> Nooooo! [13:13] *** Addreamy has joined #lounge [13:13] <Aislinn> hi addreamy! [13:13] <Addreamy> Hi! [13:14] <andythehouseelf> We'll be starting the discussion in two minutes guys! [13:14] <gryffindelle> ok [13:14] *** atschpe has quit [Bye] [13:15] <LJ> You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [13:15] <gryffindelle> ok [13:16] <LJ> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [13:16] <LJ> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like “L.J got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. [13:16] *** harrypotterfan123 has joined #lounge [13:16] <LJ> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [13:17] <LJ> The transcript of this chat will be available shortly after we finish. It will be posted in our new Corner Booth Forum: http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html .There is also a poll there where you can vote on next weeks Wize Wizard Chat: http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry890723 [13:17] *** HeleneB has joined #lounge [13:17] <LJ> Many people believe that the seven books of the Harry Potter series form a sort of arc: books one and seven, two and six, and three and five are (in theory) three pairs, each related thematically; book four stands alone as the center, in which Volemort returns and everything changes. [13:18] <LJ> Books Two and Six offer very strong support for this theory, as there are numerous connections between the two of them. JKR has even said that parts of Half-Blood Prince were originally intended for Chamber of Secrets.Today we are going to explore the parallels between the two books. [13:18] *** Whisperwing has quit [Bye] [13:18] <LJ> Why do you think JKR wrote the series this way? [13:18] <gryffindelle> hmm... [13:18] *** atschpe has joined #lounge [13:18] <HeleneB> Because it's clever? [13:19] <HeleneB> For me, HBP totally changed how I veiw the entire series. [13:19] *** Estrella has quit [Bye] [13:19] <HeleneB> *view [13:20] <Aislinn> how so, Helene? [13:20] *** Estrella has joined #lounge [13:20] <HeleneB> After reading it, it was the first time I looked so deeply at everything [13:20] *** harrypotterfan123 has quit [Bye] [13:21] <HeleneB> When I went back and read the series again (and I read the series before each movie release and each book release) I was amazed at the things that were first mentioned in CoS but came to full bloom in HBP [13:21] <Aislinn> it certainly added significant layers to the overall story [13:21] <Addreamy> I know - I spent part of my time when reading that book going, "oh, WAIT!"... [13:22] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [13:22] <gryffindelle> yeah [13:22] <HeleneB> Like the vanishing cabinet that Peeves busted, and the cursed necklace and Hand of Glory. [13:22] *** harrypotterfan123 has joined #lounge [13:22] *** Winky05 has quit [Bye] [13:22] *** Jrg1990 has joined #lounge [13:22] <gryffindelle> yeah [13:22] <Addreamy> I mean - yeah. All the Borgin and Burkes stuff [13:22] <Aislinn> I wonder if some of that occurred because she originally tried to put the HBP storyline in the second book? [13:22] <HeleneB> The implications that come with the arc theory really make you look deeply at stuff. [13:23] <HeleneB> That's certainly possible. [13:23] <Addreamy> well, It's possible - but some of that had to be just planted. [13:24] <HeleneB> I find it curious that Lockhart has been shown again with a returning memory. It makes me wonder what he might have seen when he and the boys went down to find the Chamber [13:24] <Aislinn> she is so skilled at that - dropping in what seems to be a casual reference, that turns out to be so significant later on [13:24] *** harrypotterfan123 has quit [Bye] [13:24] <HeleneB> Makes you feel paranoid that you're missing something! [13:24] <Addreamy> HeleneB - I know. I also wonder what Lockhart picked up on in his "travels" that might be key [13:24] <HeleneB> Because I missed so much before lol [13:25] <fawkes28> i still notice new things as i continue to reread [13:25] <HeleneB> Like the guy who was able to cure a werewolf? [13:25] <Addreamy> I keep coming back to that werewolf thing, you know? [13:25] <Addreamy> exactly [13:25] <Aislinn> re-reading is an amazing experience, because there are so many things that jump out that you(or at least I) just glossed over originally [13:25] <gryffindelle> me too [13:25] <fawkes28> exactly [13:25] <HeleneB> Yes--and each read adds more. [13:25] <Aislinn> do you all think we will see him again in book 7? [13:25] <Addreamy> Lockhart? Yes [13:25] <HeleneB> Lockhart? yes. [13:26] <Addreamy> lol [13:26] <HeleneB> lolol Addreamy [13:26] <Jrg1990> i dont think so. i dont think theres any need, but i guess its possible. [13:26] <fawkes28> i wonder if he will get any parts of his memory back [13:26] <Addreamy> I do - I think that there's something he knows - or somebody THINKS he knows [13:26] *** Estrella has quit [Bye] [13:26] <andythehouseelf> No. I think we had closure of Lockhart in OotP [13:26] <Jrg1990> i agree andy [13:26] <HeleneB> For such a long book as OotP, I don't think JK left anything in that didn't further the story, and Lockhart was not necessary to bring the trio to see Neville's parents. [13:26] <Jrg1990> i think hes done. [13:26] <Aislinn> she has so many things to weave together at the end - I don't know how she is NOT going to make it longer than OotP [13:27] *** Estrella has joined #lounge [13:27] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [13:27] <fawkes28> yes i wonder about that too [13:27] <andythehouseelf> Unless he escapes from the hospital: he cant do anything useful. And even if he does escape he's useless biggrin [13:27] *** Addreamy has quit [Bye] [13:27] *** Addreamy has joined #lounge [13:27] <HeleneB> I dont' think he'll play a big roll or be around for long, but I think his broken memory holds some important information. It is--after all--not the Harry Potter and the Secret Chamber but Harry Potter and the Camber of Secrets [13:27] <Jrg1990> i dont see any other purpose he may have, and if it turns out he knows something all of a sudden, then we have to take an unwanted detour to St Mungos, and that will take valuable pages out of what needs to be a action-packed book [13:28] <Aislinn> why does it need to be, jrg? [13:28] <HeleneB> But if he doesn't have information, it was a waste of page space int he largest book so far. [13:28] <andythehouseelf> Because we demand it LOL [13:28] <Addreamy> I agree, Helene....and I think it'll pop up, as it did this time, in a place where we are seeing other action. [13:28] <Aislinn> hahaha andy [13:28] <gryffindelle> yeah [13:29] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [13:29] <Jrg1990> LOL andy! yeah. Itll needs to be action packed coz me and andy say so biggrin [13:29] <Aislinn> they may well visit the hospital after someone gets injured - maybe at the wedding?? [13:29] <Addreamy> Besides, Lockhart's too vain NOT to make another appearance! [13:29] <HeleneB> She could get the information to us fairly easily. We know there are deaths coming, and that implies people being wounded as well and they might see him in avisit to the hospital. [13:29] <fawkes28> i wonder if we will see neville's parents again [13:29] <HeleneB> Aislinn--you beat me to it. [13:29] <Aislinn> biggrin [13:29] <LJ> Lockhart's books have also been mentioned in other books, not just CoS [13:30] <gryffindelle> i'm sure well see neville's parents again [13:30] <Aislinn> cleaning the doxies out of the curtains in OotP [13:30] <HeleneB> Yes. Even though he didn't do those things, people did. [13:30] <Addreamy> True - implying he's more of a key character than we think [13:30] <Pleshette> I think we will too [13:30] <fawkes28> maybe harry will track down some of those people [13:30] <Aislinn> How does reading CoS in light of what we learn in HBP enhance our understanding of this book? [13:30] *** Belenzie has joined #lounge [13:30] <Belenzie> hey all [13:30] <HeleneB> Definitely [13:31] <HeleneB> Hey Belenzie [13:31] <Aislinn> hi bel [13:31] <Val_Halla> Tom "possessing" Ginny makes more sense now [13:31] <fawkes28> i think it makes us see more connections and think even deeper about all of the little things [13:31] <andythehouseelf> Well it makes it seem more dangerous to me. [13:31] <Pleshette> We learn more about Tom Riddle and how his past seemed to shape who he is [13:31] <HeleneB> CoS was my least favorite book until HBP. [13:31] <HeleneB> Very much more dangerous, Andy [13:31] <Pleshette> What motivated him to do what he did in CoS [13:31] <Belenzie> yeah i didn't like chamber that much either [13:31] <Addreamy> I find it very interesting that Harry knew instinctively how to "disarm" the diary.... [13:31] <andythehouseelf> It kinda shows that Vodemorts a threat with or without full powers [13:31] <Aislinn> it did become more important and complex in retrospect, once we know about Horcruxes [13:32] <HeleneB> And how much help Fawkes was to him. [13:32] <Addreamy> exactly [13:32] <Belenzie> i hope fawkes reappears in hp& [13:32] <Belenzie> *7 [13:32] <HeleneB> I will be surprised if he does not. [13:32] <Pleshette> me too [13:32] <Addreamy> so will I - again, we know far too much about phoenixes for him not to be there [13:33] <Pleshette> I think he will be there to aid Harry in some way, in place of DD [13:33] <atschpe> Hi all! [13:33] <Addreamy> it's interesting to me that both books end with Fawkes scenes... [13:33] <Aislinn> addreamy - your point about disarming the diary I think is vital [13:33] <gryffindelle> mm... [13:33] <atschpe> I also didn'T like chamber that much until HBp came out [13:33] <gryffindelle> hmm [13:33] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [13:33] <Belenzie> OMG!!! i know its off topic but MNchat is back online_really sorry for ther the interruption [13:34] <gryffindelle> i still dont like chamber that much [13:34] <Aislinn> many people are worried that Harry won't know how to destroy the other Horcruxes, but I think he has an instinctive knowledge [13:34] <fawkes28> well it should give harry more convince since he has already destroyed one [13:34] <gryffindelle> makes sense [13:34] <Addreamy> I found it totally fascinating this time round -= much more in-depth than I had remembered [13:34] <HeleneB> Well, he also has resources--like curse breaker Bill [13:34] <gryffindelle> but i think the fact he was about to die at the time helped him [13:34] <gryffindelle> i mean, why didn't fawkes help him earlier [13:34] <Addreamy> The other thing that harry's action did was point out that he's best if he's not Thinking too much about what he's doing.....his instincts are good [13:35] <HeleneB> There are a couple of things that are introduced (or expanded upon) in CoS--Dobby and Salazar Slytherin [13:35] <Estrella> I think some of Harry's knowledge ties into the "bit" Voldy transferrred to him which is mentioned in CoS [13:35] <Aislinn> agreed addreamy [13:35] <Addreamy> griffindelle - I think it's because Fawkes needed Harry to say or do something to "call" him [13:35] <HeleneB> Yes, Estrella, but I think Harry's instincts are good. [13:35] <Pleshette> Good point Estrella [13:35] <HeleneB> I think about the times he's been faced with death, and he doesn't cower. [13:36] <fawkes28> harry does well under pressure [13:36] <fawkes28> which i am sure will be key [13:36] <Estrella> Remmeber in CoS when Harry thinks he remembers the name Tom Riddle from when he was small- there are some residual memories from Voldy there [13:36] <Belenzie> not like hermione"i haven't any wood! [13:36] <Belenzie> lol [13:36] <Aislinn> you think his not cowering comes from the voldy bit, Helene?? [13:36] <atschpe> Yes, I agree ,Aislinn: instinct might play a big role when Harry faces the Horcruxes.# [13:36] <HeleneB> No. [13:36] <HeleneB> His parents didn't cower either. I think it's in his genes [13:37] <Aislinn> oh, good, I agree [13:37] <Addreamy> I agree - that's the Gryff-part of Harry. We see it clearly in COS [13:37] <HeleneB> Harry isn't afraid of death--LV is. That makes LV weaker [13:37] <Aislinn> yes, atschpe, I think that each Horcrux is going to be protected differently, and Harry's ability to think on his feet and use his instincts is what is going to help him most [13:37] <Addreamy> Harry's not afraid to do what's right despite his terror. And that's key [13:38] <fawkes28> and harry does not have to do it all alone [13:38] <HeleneB> Which means he won't freeze at the opportune moment (sorry, saw pirates last night) [13:38] <Aislinn> lol [13:38] <atschpe> Interesting Helene. In CoS we learn about Slytherin and the bad traits of the Slytherins; in HBP through Slughorn we learn about some not being all that bad … [13:38] <Jrg1990> bbs [13:38] <Pleshette> Yes fawkes, and that will be key I think [13:38] <gryffindelle> lol [13:38] *** Jrg1990 left #lounge [] [13:39] <andythehouseelf> To what extent do you think these two books display role reversal? (DD helping Harry in CoS, and Lucius as the "conductor" of the danger, then Harry helping DD in HBP and Draco being the threat.) [13:39] <HeleneB> I never made the Lucius/Draco connection before. That's good. [13:39] <gryffindelle> interesting [13:39] <Aislinn> interesting quesiton, andy! [13:39] <Aislinn> *question [13:39] * andythehouseelf bows [13:39] <HeleneB> lol [13:40] *** LJ has quit [Bye] [13:40] <fawkes28> i think that it just shows the cycle of life and there comes a time when the young need to become adults [13:40] <Aislinn> it is interesting, because there is such a "passing of the torch" in HBP from Dumbledore to Harry, and this kind of reinforces it [13:40] <atschpe> I couldn'T agree more, Aislinn! [13:40] <gryffindelle> yeah [13:40] <andythehouseelf> But does that in turn indicate that the adults become the children fawkes? [13:40] <HeleneB> Perhaps that's one of the reasons Harry mustn' tell others about the horcruxes. [13:41] <HeleneB> They will still try to treat him like a kid. [13:41] <fawkes28> it can [13:41] <Addreamy> I think that's part of it - I think it also shows the maturing of the teens - more as full-partners in the story....if that makes sense [13:41] <Belenzie> it hink the torch passing is clear now fro the adults to the children [13:41] <Pleshette> It may mean that the adults will ultlimately have to depend on the children [13:41] <HeleneB> In control of their own destiny [13:41] <Addreamy> right - more in control [13:41] <fawkes28> i think that the adults will always be there to give their advice [13:41] <fawkes28> as they still do have the most experience [13:41] <HeleneB> As long as they don't try to usurp authority [13:42] <Pleshette> Yes [13:42] <Aislinn> they are not really children anymore - Harry will be the last of the trio to come of age, in a month after HBP closes [13:42] <Addreamy> well - and this particular group of children doesn't always go to the adults....lol [13:42] <Aislinn> very true ad! [13:42] <fawkes28> true [13:42] <Estrella> Often Hermione displays a greater perception than some of her teachers [13:42] <HeleneB> I think they'll return to school if only for a cover. But how much will they tell the authority figures and how much will they have to sneak around. [13:43] <fawkes28> look at lockhart he has never acted much like an adult [13:43] <HeleneB> Hermione reads people very well. [13:43] <Aislinn> yes, and she will be a valuable resource to Harry in that perspective [13:43] <Addreamy> However - I do see it as more of a partnership thing that jsut passing the torch completely... [13:43] <HeleneB> lol fawkes! [13:43] <fawkes28> harry was in charge of the situation in the chamber [13:43] <Aislinn> so you think DD will still be present in some form, dreamy? [13:43] <Pleshette> I agree, I can see McGonagall as being very helpful [13:43] <HeleneB> Well, there wasn't anyone else there. [13:43] <Estrella> In Cos IT WAS STILL VERY MUCH dd PROTECTING hARRY [13:43] <HeleneB> DD wasn't there [13:44] <Estrella> He armed Harry with the Phoenix and the hat [13:44] <Addreamy> I do, Aislinn, but not as a major character - I think we'll get some hints from his protrait and more from his effects.... [13:44] <Estrella> It was loyalty on Harry's part which saved him [13:44] <atschpe> I never spotted that Aislinn, but your right Dumbledore hands the horcrux hunt down to Harry; Lucius needs to be replaced by Draco in his ill doing … ties the two books nicely together. [13:44] <fawkes28> i agree addreamy [13:44] <HeleneB> Harry called them--which I think is an important difference. [13:44] *** Bubonic has joined #lounge [13:44] <Estrella> Yes but at the end you still have Harry looking to DD for reassurance that he is not evil etc [13:44] <Addreamy> that's true, atschpe [13:44] <Aislinn> hi bubonic! We're discussing the links between CoS and HBP [13:45] <Estrella> In HBP you have DD gaining that reassurance from Harry [13:45] <HeleneB> As I've recently reread CoS for my reading group, I noticed again DD's comment that help will always be at Hogwarts for those loyal. Is that just loyal to him--or to the school? [13:45] <fawkes28> i dont think he needs DD reassurance now [13:45] <Aislinn> yes, estrella - he was very unsure about that [13:45] <Bubonic> just visiting, may be back [13:45] <fawkes28> i think he has the support of his friends [13:45] <Aislinn> he seems much more aware of himself as a person in HBP [13:45] *** Bubonic has quit [Bye] [13:45] <Estrella> So it fits the sort of inversion pattern you referred to in the question [13:46] <fawkes28> yes, aislinn [13:46] <Addreamy> well, the quote was "to me" if Iremember right, Helene - and I think it means to DD's vision of things.... [13:46] <fawkes28> he really had to grow up faster than he should have [13:46] <atschpe> Well, harry didn't call them directly. It was his loyalty that sent Fawkes and the Hat to him. [13:46] <HeleneB> Well, I was thinking of Harry remembering back that thought. Could DD have placed a spell or charm--in the event of his demise? [13:47] <Addreamy> He did wish for help, though, didn't he? [13:47] *** Islwyn13 has joined #lounge [13:47] <Estrella> Harry did [13:47] <HeleneB> Yes [13:47] *** Addreamy has quit [Bye] [13:47] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge [13:47] *** Addreamy has joined #lounge [13:47] <Aislinn> hi islwyn! We're discussing the links between CoS and HBP [13:48] <Val_Halla> The quote is that help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it [13:48] <Aislinn> hey ginbot! [13:48] <Islwyn13> heya! ok, just watching to see where we are right now smile [13:48] <Estrella> The relationship between DD and Harry in HBP is a reversal of that in CoS [13:48] <HeleneB> Yes--that hints at more than just loyalty to DD, though that seems part of it. [13:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi Guys - Aislinn [13:48] <HeleneB> Hi Ginny [13:48] <atschpe> Helene: I think DD is refering to loyalty to him. He says something along the lines of "I won't be gone as long as" and it is Fawkes his private pet that comes to HarryÄs rescue. [13:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi Helene! [13:49] <fawkes28> remember right before he died DD said that he was with Harry [13:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm going to be popping in/out here... we're busy in our neck of the woods today [13:49] <Aislinn> and then Harry uses that same line to Scrimgeour in HBP, helene [13:49] <HeleneB> Yep [13:49] <Islwyn13> I loved that part! [13:50] <Val_Halla> This always reminds me of Obi Wan Kenobi 's sacrifice [13:50] <Val_Halla> He didn't really disappear, although he was dead [13:50] <fawkes28> yes [13:50] <Addreamy> yeah - the quote: "you will find that I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me." [13:50] <Val_Halla> Not that I'm suggesting DD will be a ghost [13:51] <fawkes28> no he would never want to be one [13:51] <fawkes28> he didnt fear death [13:51] <Addreamy> no - I dont' think he will either - but his statement is an interesting one nonetheless. [13:51] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [13:51] <Aislinn> Voldemort is only present in his past form in both books. Why do you think this is and what importance does it hold? [13:51] <HeleneB> It lets Harry deal with other issues, for one. [13:52] <atschpe> Thanks for the exact quote, Addreamy. [13:52] <Pleshette> Another reversal: In Cos we see Tom wanting to know all he can about Harry, in HBP Harry is learning all he can about Tom [13:52] <Estrella> The reversal again [13:52] <Estrella> All this mirroring [13:52] <Addreamy> hmmm. That's interesting. Yeah.... [13:52] <Islwyn13> Well, learning that Tom Riddle is LV is a shocker, totally unexpected [13:52] <Aislinn> good point, pleshette! [13:52] <Islwyn13> HBP shows us how that 16-year-old became the LV we know now [13:52] <fawkes28> i think that she is trying to show us that the past is just as important as the future [13:53] <Pleshette> It's the key to finding LV weaknesses [13:53] <Addreamy> or that it's important to understand the past so you can deal with thte future [13:53] <HeleneB> Yes [13:53] <fawkes28> there is so much from the past that we do not know [13:53] <Pleshette> understanding his motivations [13:53] <fawkes28> how DD refers to the old magic [13:54] <Expelliarmas> You also get to see the contrast between Harry and Riddle as boys; both orphaned, one takes one path and the other just becomes a psycho. [13:54] <Val_Halla> I also think it's important that Harry learn to sympathize a little with LV instead of merely hating him. [13:54] <Islwyn13> agreed [13:54] <fawkes28> oh val_halla good point [13:54] <HeleneB> Yes, especially if love is Harry's strength. [13:54] <Islwyn13> this is where Harry's abilitiy to love comes in [13:54] <fawkes28> and voldemort's weakness [13:54] <Islwyn13> hehe, what Helene said smile [13:55] <HeleneB> Reminds me a bit of Luke Skywalker--hate was a path to the dark side of the force. [13:55] <Pleshette> Coming down to choices again [13:55] <Addreamy> exactly - and it's going to be very imporatnat for Harry to go beyond his hatred - and I wonder if that includes more than just LV - but Snape as well... [13:55] <Aislinn> central theme, pleshette [13:55] <Islwyn13> oh, definitely Snape as well [13:55] <HeleneB> Oh, yes, for sure, Ad. [13:55] <Islwyn13> he's going to need something from Snape [13:55] <fawkes28> harry has a lot to overcome [13:55] <gryffindelle> yes [13:55] <Islwyn13> so he's going to have to not kill Snape when he sees him [13:55] <HeleneB> Hate has a way of tainting all aspects of a person's life. [13:56] <Expelliarmas> choices, yes; but there is also something deeper going on. Harry is totally ignored by the Dursleys, but he doesn't become nasty. Tom gives into something about his personality and becomes cruel at an early age. [13:56] <Islwyn13> and then he's going to have to listen [13:56] <Addreamy> I found Snape's role in this book - intriguing. I'd missed most of it the first time...but he's not as horrendous in this book... [13:56] <Pleshette> That's where he can find strength in his friends [13:56] <Addreamy> as I'd thought [13:56] <HeleneB> Yes, Exp--a very strong indication of the caliber of their characters. [13:56] <Aislinn> right expel [13:56] <HeleneB> Now say that fast five times! [13:56] <Val_Halla> Harry had loving parents for a year; Tom never had love [13:56] <gryffindelle> yes [13:56] <gryffindelle> and their major differences [13:57] <HeleneB> But there are others who did not have love for the first year but still grew up okay. [13:57] <Addreamy> Tom - also never gave love a chance. That orphanage didnt sound like it was the worst of the bunch...there were caring peopel there too. [13:57] <Aislinn> we don't know exactly what he had at the orphanage, but Harry was definitely given a strong foundation [13:57] <Islwyn13> There's also the way their parents died...Harry's died in what he thought was a car crash, Tom knows his father abandoned him and his mother died right after he was born [13:57] <fawkes28> tom did make that choice [13:57] <Islwyn13> breeds resentment in Tom [13:57] <Aislinn> right helene [13:57] <Expelliarmas> we also learn that the Gaunts have an unstable personality(?) do to their preference for marrying only purebloods. There's an edge of insanity there that's becoming more pronounced in VM. [13:57] <Islwyn13> resentment Harry didn't have [13:57] <HeleneB> It didn't sound to me like the orphanage was a horrible place. I think Tom could have had love if he had been willing. [13:58] <magicmeg8> Yes, good point, islwyn [13:58] <Addreamy> I agree, helene [13:58] <Aislinn> I think there is definitely a "nature" argument there expel, rather than just nurture [13:58] <HeleneB> I agree Aislinn--that family had a history of violence and madness [13:58] <HeleneB> (Slytherin) [13:58] <Aislinn> harry comes from loyal, loving parents, and Riddle from tainted stock [13:58] <HeleneB> And Tom Riddle Sr. was no saint. [13:58] <Islwyn13> absolutely [13:59] *** atschpe has quit [Bye] [13:59] <Val_Halla> I think it's clearly implied that the Gaunts are inbred; hence insanity is more likely. Coupled with a lack of parents... [13:59] <Addreamy> True. But then again, not every person with "bad blood" is horrendous... [13:59] *** Belenzie has quit [Bye] [13:59] <gryffindelle> yeah [13:59] <HeleneB> BAck to choices then [13:59] <Aislinn> oh, absolutely, addreamy, which is where choice becomes so important! [13:59] <fawkes28> agreed [13:59] <Expelliarmas> well, the Gaunts were not the leading the parade of normality down mainstreet, while the potters seemed quite well grounded. [13:59] <Addreamy> there's Sirius - who wasn't the nicest person in existance, but... [13:59] <magicmeg8> yeah. well, if he had the tendencies of the gaunt family and was raised in an orphanage, where it is not as easy to care for each child individually, then you've got a lot of issues right there [13:59] <Addreamy> no TR. either. [13:59] <fawkes28> yes but the potters werent perfect [14:00] *** atschpe has joined #lounge [14:00] <Islwyn13> TR was also obsessed with death earlyon [14:00] <HeleneB> But the children can care for each other. [14:00] <Islwyn13> trying to avoid it [14:00] <Addreamy> true, mwegs....it did set him up. [14:00] <Expelliarmas> I don't think the potters were perfect, but they weren't dancing on the edge of insanity, either. [14:00] <Islwyn13> how many 11 year olds are thinking about how they might cheat death? [14:00] <Islwyn13> that's a little messed up [14:00] <HeleneB> Too right, Exp! [14:00] <fawkes28> oh yes [14:00] <Addreamy> how many under-11yo's are torturing younger children? yeah. A bit messed up is right. [14:01] <magicmeg8> True helene -- and i'm not saying that he couldn't have made the choice to act a certain way, and also that his nature was not solely indicative of his later behavior, but lacking a strong parrental figure wouldn't help [14:01] <Val_Halla> lots, just not with magic [14:01] <Addreamy> However - again, there were choices there.... [14:01] <HeleneB> I agree Meg [14:01] <Islwyn13> The potters weren't perfect, but htey loved their little boy; Tom's father abandoned his pregnant mother, and his mother died of grief (?) right after he was born [14:01] <Expelliarmas> that's the disturbing bit about Tom, he's torturing other kids and small animals because he can and then taking trophies. It gives a chilligng insight. [14:01] <andythehouseelf> In both CoS and HBP, Ginny seems to take on a larger role. How do you think her role in CoS influenced her actions in HBP? [14:01] <Islwyn13> Of the two sets, I choose the Potters smile [14:01] <HeleneB> A bad combination for Tom [14:01] <atschpe> Thanks Aislinn, hope it goes better now … [14:01] <Aislinn> me too smile [14:02] <Islwyn13> Oh, she was terrified of the HBP potions book [14:02] <Islwyn13> tried to warn Harry about it [14:02] <HeleneB> I think Ginny will be a big part of what happens in Book 7. She's got a bone to pick with LV. [14:02] <Addreamy> I think having gone through what she did with the diary, she was both stronger and more independent in HBP....than she might have been otherwise [14:02] <Estrella> I think that in some way it made Ginny stronger. What happened to Ginny in CoS def influenced her and reinforces that bond Harry and Ginny have [14:02] <HeleneB> I love the way her role has grown. The more I've seen of her, the more I've liked her, and I'm glad Harry finally saw that. [14:03] <magicmeg8> I feel like Ginny's experience with LV gave her a different perspective -- she knows the real danger of him. it may have made everyday tasks seem easy compared to what she went trhough [14:03] <Estrella> They are the only 2 who have really been possessed [14:03] <Expelliarmas> That's another difference between Harry and TR; Harry seems quite normal, he's got a girlfriend, etc. We never get a glimpse of TR worrying about some girl. [14:03] <fawkes28> i think she is similar to harry she faced a horrible ordeal and many people would not be ok but she rose above it just like harry rose above his troubles [14:03] <gryffindelle> g2g for now [14:03] *** gryffindelle left #lounge [] [14:03] <HeleneB> I loved the way she confronted him in OotP about the possession thing. [14:03] <Addreamy> I agree, Helene...and what a "doh" moment for Harry! lol [14:04] <Islwyn13> hehe, yeah, the "You idiot, why didn't you just ask ME?" [14:04] <HeleneB> She's someone who will also be able to watch Harry's back [14:04] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [14:04] <fawkes28> i think it's interesting that a book was at the center of both CoS and HBP [14:04] <Islwyn13> if he lets her [14:04] <Pleshette> It's important for Harry to have someone who truly understands LV on the same level [14:04] <Islwyn13> she'll probably have to covertly follow him for a while [14:04] <HeleneB> I think she'll do it without his permission. [14:04] *** andythehouseelf has quit [Bye] [14:04] <HeleneB> Brilliant minds, Islwyn! [14:04] <Islwyn13> yeah, Fawkes, and Ginny's response to both books is quite different [14:04] <Val_Halla> Ginny definitely is one to take initiative [14:04] <Addreamy> I agree, Helene - I think she'll just sort of "be" there... [14:04] <Islwyn13> lol, Helene [14:05] <fawkes28> yes, islwyn but harry reacted to both books the same what doe sthat show us about him? [14:05] <HeleneB> I don't think Harry will keep her away. I keep thinking of how she got good at Quidditch, and there's always Fred & George's influence [14:05] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [14:05] <HeleneB> *be able [14:06] <Islwyn13> you mean with his curiosity? Well, he wasn't directly impacted by the danger of the diary, so it didn't sink in as deeply with him as it did with Ginny [14:06] <HeleneB> Fawkes, harry is steady [14:06] <Addreamy> Fawkes - that Harry's not as tuned into caution as he should be.....lol [14:06] <HeleneB> But he may be now [14:06] <Islwyn13> and the HBP potions book wasn't magic in and of itself, it was just grafittied, I think he recognized the difference [14:06] <Expelliarmas> I've always thought the underage wizards would form a variation of the Order; sort of a continuation of Dumbledore's Army. [14:06] <Islwyn13> ' [14:06] <atschpe> I know JKr shot the theory down that there still is some piece of LV in her; I don'T mean that ; but the experience … [14:06] <fawkes28> maybe he does need ginny to help him [14:06] <Addreamy> I'm hoping he is - and I think, seeing what happened to DD will instill more of that. [14:06] <Islwyn13> well, now, the book still hasn't shown itself to be dangerous in and of itself [14:07] <HeleneB> And I think it will be a resource to harry [14:07] <Islwyn13> I think it may still be useful in some way [14:07] <Islwyn13> there we go again! [14:07] <HeleneB> lo.l [14:07] <Addreamy> Islwyn, you're right. it's not the book - its the ideas that were dangerous - that he didn't recongize how dark they were getting. [14:07] <Islwyn13> JKR spent too much time describing exactly where it was hidden, not to come back to it [14:07] <Val_Halla> I think it's going to reappear, otherwise Harry would have destroyed it [14:07] <Estrella> I think that the Ginny in CoS is definite precursor to the one in HBP- the stregth of mind it took for Ginny to resist To comes through again in HBP [14:07] <HeleneB> And not all that's in that book is bad. [14:08] <Addreamy> true [14:08] <Islwyn13> snape has a definite dark side, there's no denying it... [14:08] <Expelliarmas> how much insight does the potions book give into Snape? [14:08] <HeleneB> Definite! [14:08] <Islwyn13> that's part of what I think will be so important for Harry to discover [14:08] <HeleneB> That's what I've beent hinking Exp [14:08] <Addreamy> quite a bit, actually, if you think about it. [14:09] <Aislinn> I wonder if there will be a clue to tracking down Snape hidden in its covers, that may be the reason Harry goes back for it [14:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Sorry... dozed off... what'd I miss? [14:09] <Val_Halla> lol [14:09] <HeleneB> I agree Aislinn [14:09] <Expelliarmas> that potions book showed Snape had a gift for potions from an early age; he did not follow the given instructions and came up with better potions; he even wrote down spells for "enemies" [14:09] <Addreamy> he was creative, and very intelligent. [14:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Guys - there's a party going on in CoC if you want to join us afterwards [14:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sorry - wanted to get that plug in biggrin [14:10] <Expelliarmas> what kid has "enemies" at such an early age--except for Harry and his grim [14:10] <HeleneB> But I also keep remembering Hermione's comment about the writing in it looking like a woman's. If they've seen Snape's writing, why didn't anyone remark on it looking like a woman's [14:10] <Islwyn13> and a bit dismissive of authority figures, believing (rightly) that he kenw better than his potions master or the author of the book [14:10] <Val_Halla> Harry and Draco were enemies early on [14:10] <Aislinn> oh, your grand re-opening, right ginbot! [14:10] *** andythehouseelf has quit [Bye] [14:10] <Addreamy> ooooooo I forgot about that, Helene [14:10] <Islwyn13> I think she was grasping at straws... [14:10] <HeleneB> Hermione? [14:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Aislinn - all are welcome [14:11] <Islwyn13> yeah [14:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and please take time to read the essay and filk contest [14:11] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [14:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> in the CoC forum [14:11] <HeleneB> The age of the book implies it was previously owned. The writing could be Snape's mother's [14:11] <Islwyn13> I'm trying to construct my thoughts... [14:11] <atschpe> The book showed a completely new side to Snape – even to Harry if he could open his eyes. [14:11] <atschpe> hahaha, Ginny. [14:11] <Islwyn13> then I don't think Snape would have taken credit for it [14:11] <fawkes28> harry needs to get past his hatred of snape [14:12] *** harrypotterfan123 has joined #lounge [14:12] <Islwyn13> he said Harry was using "his own spells" against him [14:12] <HeleneB> Amazing that Harry learned more through that book than he ever did in real life. [14:12] <Islwyn13> if they were his motehrs, I don't think he would have said that [14:12] <Expelliarmas> no, the notes were Snapes, he was quite scornful about being a half-blood prince. [14:12] <HeleneB> *from Snape, I mean [14:12] <Val_Halla> I know, Snape's a woman [14:12] <Val_Halla> lol [14:12] <Islwyn13> LOL [14:12] <Islwyn13> Harry did learn more, mostly because he dind't have to deal with the "personality" of Snape, just his knowledge [14:13] <Expelliarmas> a wreck of a woman with greasy hair and yellow teeth! [14:13] <HeleneB> sometimes parents and chilfdren have similar writing [14:13] <magicmeg8> In each book, we meet a Minister of (for) Magic for the first time: Fudge in COS and Scrimgeour in HBP. What similarities do you see between the two ministers? (ex: both seem more concerned with appearances than with substance or justice.) [14:13] <Islwyn13> kinda shows that Snape could've been a good teacher, if he weren't so darned unpleasant [14:13] <HeleneB> Yep Islwyn [14:13] <Val_Halla> HeleneB, I think you're right [14:13] <Addreamy> and sometimes people's handwriting changes from childhood to adulthood [14:13] <Expelliarmas> what qualifies as a "woman's" writing? [14:13] <atschpe> Other than the scrolled makrs on their essays, I think they only saw the instructions on the board, and no doubt a wizard can choose a more legible writing if he thinks necessary. [14:14] <Islwyn13> My grandfather has beautiful writing, very curvy and very precise...very like a woman's... [14:14] <fawkes28> i think it makes us understand why DD never took the MoM [14:14] <HeleneB> You mean the hearts and swirls and curlicures, Exp? [14:14] <HeleneB> lol [14:14] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [14:14] <Expelliarmas> lol [14:14] <magicmeg8> I definitely think that's an important aspect, fawkes. we see how different dd is compared to the ministry [14:14] <fawkes28> because he is not concerned with appearances he wants justice [14:14] <Islwyn13> it's true about Fudge and Scrimgeour both being concerned with appearances... [14:14] <Val_Halla> JKR doesn't think much of government beauracrats, does she? [14:15] <fawkes28> DD could have had a lot of influence at the ministry [14:15] <Islwyn13> but Fudge never seemed comfortable with the responsibility that came with the power...I dont 'think Scrimgeour has that problem [14:15] <Expelliarmas> the ministry, like most governments, is bogged down in bureaucracies; at Hogwarts it's a small manageable group of teachers. [14:15] <Addreamy> I do find it interesting that both heads of magic appear to be just that "figureheads" [14:15] <fawkes28> but he chose not to again it's that choices thing [14:15] <Islwyn13> Neither do it, come to that, Val smile [14:15] <magicmeg8> LoL. I don't think so, Val. you're right, Iswyn -- both want harry on their side [14:15] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [14:15] <Aislinn> hi future! [14:15] <atschpe> Islwyn13: To tell you the truth I think I learnt most from teachers who weren't all nice and easy. It is the challenge that spurned me on – in a way Snape is a very good teacher; look at the results of his students. [14:15] <Addreamy> both ignore the parts of reality that don't fit in with their goals or plans. [14:15] <futureweasley> hi guys! sorry I'm late! [14:15] <magicmeg8> hey future : [14:16] <Pleshette> Hi fw! [14:16] <Islwyn13> Well, Fudge wanted Harry safe, but he was very much NOT on Harry's side for a long time [14:16] <Expelliarmas> they didn't want harry on their side, they wanted harry to give the appearance of being on the side [14:16] <magicmeg8> we're discussing scrimgeor and fudge and their similarities at the moment [14:16] <HeleneB> Makes you wonder how a minister is chosen. There doesn't appear to have been an election. If the MoM is appointed, who did it? [14:16] <Val_Halla> That's why JKR's humor is so funny, there's a LARGE grain of truth in it [14:16] <Addreamy> hmmm. good question [14:16] <Expelliarmas> the wizenmagot? [14:16] <fawkes28> maybe a board of governors? [14:16] <HeleneB> That's what I've wondered, Exp [14:16] <futureweasley> wizengamot [14:16] <futureweasley> :-) [14:16] <Aislinn> it would be interesting to find out how they make the selection [14:17] <Pleshette> Umbridge? kidding [14:17] <Addreamy> if it were the wizengamot - it's interesting that Scrimgeour is having such trouble with DD (or did....) [14:17] <HeleneB> Gag! [14:17] <HeleneB> I'm looking forward to her getting hers in Book 7. [14:17] <Addreamy> eh - somehow, I don't think she will, sadly. [14:17] *** harrypotterfan123 has quit [Bye] [14:18] <Aislinn> I think she will have something happen to her [14:18] <futureweasley> I'm sorry, Helene, getting her what? [14:18] <HeleneB> ***evil grin*** [14:18] <Addreamy> oh, I can always HOPE! lol [14:18] <HeleneB> Her comeuppance [14:18] <Expelliarmas> Maybe she'll have something involving Hagrid's bow?!? [14:18] <futureweasley> Umbridge...gotcha [14:18] <Expelliarmas> *crossbow [14:18] <Val_Halla> I got the impression they're usually elected but Fudge was impeached and so Scrim-whatever was appointed by ? [14:18] <Expelliarmas> Jo? [14:18] <Pleshette> lol [14:19] <Addreamy> a wizard's council? [14:19] <HeleneB> LOL [14:19] <HeleneB> Perhaps Scrimgeour is a temporary appointment [14:19] <HeleneB> Until an election can be held [14:19] <Expelliarmas> No, Scrimgeour is there to stay; until he screws up. [14:19] <futureweasley> interim [14:19] <Islwyn13> atschpe (sorry for delay), unpleasant and somewhat difficult is one thing (I've had those, too, and agree, I learned a great deal from them); but Snape is unfair and distracting... [14:19] <HeleneB> LOL [14:19] *** atschpe has quit [Bye] [14:19] <Val_Halla> Maybe Umbridge will be the next MoM [14:19] <Islwyn13> eek! [14:19] <Islwyn13> say it ain't so! [14:19] <HeleneB> Oooo [14:19] <fawkes28> oh no [14:20] <Expelliarmas> The next minister will be Percy. [14:20] <Val_Halla> It would be realistic if sickenening [14:20] <Addreamy> Ew. I'll stick with Scrimgeour, thanks. [14:20] <Aislinn> noooo [14:20] <HeleneB> If she is, I may be persuaded to believe in political assasination [14:20] <Val_Halla> lol [14:20] <magicmeg8> We have two somewhat frivolous professors; Lockhart and Slughorn. While Lockhart stole and took credit for the works of others, Slughorn is an acknowledged potions master. Lockhart had a following of mostly female fans. [14:20] <magicmeg8> Slughorn collected followers and mentored them. Both were quite amenable to flattery. Hermione gets Lockhart to sign the library permission slip. [14:20] <magicmeg8> Tom Riddle gets Horcrux info through careful flattery and crystallised pineapple. What other connections do you see between the two professors? What does this imply about Lockhart? About Slughorn? [14:20] <Islwyn13> New Zealand looks nice this time of year...maybe the british wizaarding world can emmigrate if that happens! [14:20] <Expelliarmas> As Ron said, the youngest Minister of MAgic ever. [14:20] <futureweasley> Book 7: Harry Potter and Minister Umbridge's Pants [14:21] <HeleneB> lol Islwyn [14:21] <Expelliarmas> Slughorn actually has knowledge; Lockhart steals it. [14:21] <gryffindelle> that they have power too [14:21] <Val_Halla> They're both atrocious teachers [14:21] <HeleneB> Meg, each may play a role in helping Harry defeat LV [14:21] <gryffindelle> that they have power too [14:21] <Addreamy> You know, I'm wondering - do we ever learn which house Lockhart was in? [14:21] <HeleneB> Lockhart if he saw anything down there, and Slughorn because he knows about the horcruxes and may have some guts yet [14:21] <Val_Halla> He HAD to be a Slytherin [14:21] <Islwyn13> Lockhart reminds me of a little child, desperate for praise; not highly intellegent [14:21] <Addreamy> I'm suspecting he was a Slytherin, but I don't know that. [14:22] <gryffindelle> maybe [14:22] <Pleshette> No Addreamy I don't think so [14:22] <Estrella> Any of the houses would be too ashamed to claim him [14:22] <gryffindelle> yeah [14:22] <Expelliarmas> No one wants to take the blame for Lockhart, so no house admits to it--he was homschooled. [14:22] <fawkes28> lol [14:22] <Addreamy> lol [14:22] <gryffindelle> lol [14:22] <Islwyn13> Slughorn reminds me of a somewhat greasy politician, using that praise he gets as leverage to gain influence [14:22] <HeleneB> Only those house members who saw through him. People like lockhart fool a lot of people. [14:22] <gryffindelle> yeah [14:22] <fawkes28> but he still had influence [14:22] <Islwyn13> how so? [14:23] <HeleneB> Yes, Lockhart is still getting letters [14:23] <Addreamy> Islwyn - yes, but it worked out to everyones advantage; for the most part. [14:23] <Estrella> I get the feeling though that Slughorn had more integrity than Lckhart- he never stealsa someone's memorie [14:23] <Val_Halla> Lockhart had to be highly ambitious to do the things he did. Think of all the people he obliviated [14:23] <fawkes28> look at all the women who book his books [14:23] <Islwyn13> but that doesn't effect the greater scheme of things [14:23] <Estrella> just tries to change his own [14:23] <Addreamy> I agree, Estrella [14:23] <Expelliarmas> Slughorn is a kingmaker, he wants reflected glory; Lockhart wants center stage. [14:23] <fawkes28> well yes [14:23] <HeleneB> And still use Lockharts books (remembers OotP) [14:23] <futureweasley> Slughorn and Lockhart are essentially the same person. They are smarmy and weak...I think they both had to be Slytherins [14:23] <Islwyn13> oh, true, Ad, it's not totally unscrupulous, what Slughorn does [14:23] <futureweasley> lol [14:23] <Estrella> There is still this obsession though with taking credit for oters actions [14:23] <Islwyn13> he doesn't help people into positions they truly can't handle [14:23] <HeleneB> I don't think being Slytherin means you're weak. [14:23] <Estrella> Slughorn seems to imply that you can't get far without his influence [14:24] <Estrella> then loves to mention how he has helped people along [14:24] <Addreamy> He just does it in ways that benefit himself as much as them! [14:24] <HeleneB> (Am I defending Slytheirn?) [14:24] <futureweasley> I'm being sarcastic [14:24] <Islwyn13> neither does being a gryffindor, but look at Pettigrew [14:24] <Estrella> Lockhart apprpriates people's acheievements [14:24] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [14:24] <Aislinn> you are, helene biggrin [14:24] <gryffindelle> lol [14:24] <Expelliarmas> Slughorn tries to match people up and get them on their way; he does spot talent from an early age. Even Lily, but not James, was in her slugclub. He acknowledged Sirius too. [14:24] <Islwyn13> yeah, Slughorn is more symbitotic, Lockhart more parasitic [14:24] <Aislinn> Hi cloudpic! [14:24] <HeleneB> Lockhart is pretty crafty for being so dumb. He might have been Ravenclaw [14:25] <Addreamy> scary, isn't it... I've been defending Slytherin more than I thought possible [14:25] <Val_Halla> Crafty is not the same as wise [14:25] <HeleneB> ***blushes*** [14:25] <Estrella> But the point is Slughorn is still riding on peoples coat tails and his handpicked ones would probably still have succeeded without him [14:25] <Aislinn> too true, val halla [14:25] <HeleneB> Yes, Val, and that's what gets him into trouble. [14:25] <Islwyn13> I'm not sure if Ravenclaw values wisdom or intellegence more [14:25] <cloudpic> Good analogies to Sluggie and Lockhart symbiote/parasite [14:25] <Islwyn13> funny how I misspelled "Intelligence", isn't it? [14:25] <Pleshette> They both use people to get what they want [14:25] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [14:25] <HeleneB> I have hopes for Sluggy [14:26] <Islwyn13> *shakes head woefully* [14:26] <HeleneB> It's all because of gumshoe's theory [14:26] <Aislinn> I think intelligence, islwyn [14:26] <Islwyn13> well,I'm off...going to movie! have fun guys, and thanks! [14:26] <Pleshette> Hey DumbleDebbie! [14:26] <Addreamy> The other thing about both lockhart and slughorn - DD knew their weaknesses - and still kept them on staff. [14:26] <Addreamy> bye, Islwyn! [14:26] <HeleneB> have fun Isylwn [14:26] <Aislinn> bye! [14:26] <Expelliarmas> I don't know whether to like slughorn or not, he's such an opportunist. [14:26] <Val_Halla> Sluggy is a perfect example of the world not being divided into DE's and good people [14:26] <Islwyn13> yeah, that's what I was thining, Ais, so Lockhart wouldn't have had to be wise [14:26] <Islwyn13> Toodles! [14:26] *** Islwyn13 left #lounge [] [14:26] <Aislinn> DD seems very tolerant of others' weaknesses [14:26] <HeleneB> I'm more inclined to think of Umbridge that way, Val [14:27] <DumbleDebbie> anyone have any ideas as to what the acromatual venom might be used for? [14:27] <HeleneB> Have you read gumshoes's essay? [14:27] <Addreamy> He is - and finds ways to either work around them or deal with them... [14:27] <Aislinn> Yeah, I don't see Slughorn as bod [14:27] <Val_Halla> That shoe fits more thatn one character [14:27] <Val_Halla> than [14:27] <gryffindelle> destroy hocruxes [14:27] <HeleneB> too right [14:27] <HeleneB> good question, Debbie [14:27] <DumbleDebbie> ooo, acromantual venom = horcrux buster? that'd be cool [14:28] <HeleneB> maybe we will see in Book 7 [14:28] <futureweasley> I see them both as stray sheep. Out wondering aimlessly...lost. Poor little sheep [14:28] <Expelliarmas> why was Slughorn so very fond of Lily? He holds her in such high and for him tender regard. [14:28] * Addreamy waves at donna... [14:28] <DumbleDebbie> acromantula [14:28] <Pleshette> His name is appropriate...Slug, as in attaches himself to others [14:28] <HeleneB> lol, Ad [14:28] <cloudpic> Hi, Addreamy and all [14:28] <Val_Halla> Maybe Slughorn felt a wee bit resposible for helping Tom rise to power [14:28] <HeleneB> Which is a good sign [14:28] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, he did have a guilty conscience, that's why he hid the memory [14:28] <Aislinn> it seems he did [14:29] <cloudpic> For once a "hookup" to a Slugclub member wasn't so great [14:29] <Pleshette> I agree [14:29] *** Jrg1990 has joined #lounge [14:29] <DumbleDebbie> shows at least he *has* a conscience This post has been edited by andy the house elf: Jul 22 2006, 02:42 PM |
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Jul 22 2006, 02:36 PM
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Chief Cat Herder Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain! |
[14:29] <Addreamy> hmm. There's a difference between the two - Slughorn may have had remorse. Lochhart never did
[14:29] <Aislinn> but at least he finally stepped up and did the right thing [14:29] <cloudpic> Or is just afraid of consequences... [14:29] <HeleneB> I'm hoping for more than fear, Cloudpic [14:29] <Val_Halla> I agree cloudpic [14:29] <Expelliarmas> being afraid of consequences could be the road to redemeption [14:29] <DumbleDebbie> Lockhart seems to be continually doing mental gymnastics to fool himself as much as fool others [14:30] <Val_Halla> Sluggy had to be gotten drunk to do the right thing [14:30] <HeleneB> Yes, Debbie. He believed his first lie. [14:30] <cloudpic> He's sort of a less attractive form of Snape, if Snape is always looking out for himself as some think [14:30] <DumbleDebbie> like he's been doing self memory charms or something [14:30] <Addreamy> Exactly, DumbleDebbie - and while Sluggy did some of that - he was also aware of his faults. [14:30] <HeleneB> But he did the right thing [14:30] <Expelliarmas> Lockhart can't do mental gymnastics; he'd get tangled in his hair nets [14:30] <HeleneB> LOL Exp! [14:30] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Explliarmus [14:30] *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] [14:30] <Val_Halla> lol [14:30] *** whoispadfoot has joined #lounge [14:30] <magicmeg8> At various points in CoS and HBP students are attacked, yet not killed. Why do you think this is a recurring theme and what does it show about both the victims and the guilty? [14:31] <Pleshette> Lockhart doesn't regret his actions where Slughorn does [14:31] <Val_Halla> I don't think Slughorn is evil, just not admirable [14:31] <cloudpic> Nice distinction, Val halla [14:31] <gryffindelle> people don't want to kill unnecessarily [14:31] <HeleneB> Not sure what to think, Meg, except that it's a children's' book? [14:31] <Expelliarmas> Slughorn is out for himself, something of a slytherin trait. He doesn't want to be a DE and so goes to extreme to avoid them. That's something. Meanwhile, others do the heavy lifting. [14:32] <Val_Halla> I think in HBP they lived for purposes of the plot; for some reason JKR did not want Draco to be a murderer [14:32] <gryffindelle> even lv has some morals [14:32] <Jrg1990> thats an interesting point meg. I thik the idea that none were killed show that although evil, the guilty (and im saying basilisk not riddlfe here) are esssentially flawed. [14:32] <DumbleDebbie> well both Draco and Tom are nasty bigotous gits [14:32] <cloudpic> In the Real World more people are injured than killed in war, on the streets, etc. [14:32] <Jrg1990> which becomes important in that dracos flaw is that he cannot go all the way. [14:32] <DumbleDebbie> is bigotous even a word? oh well smile [14:32] <Estrella> bigoted [14:32] <DumbleDebbie> thanks Estrella [14:32] <Estrella> Draco's sense of entitlement is due to his upbringing [14:33] <Estrella> yet underneath it all he cannot kill [14:33] <Expelliarmas> In COS, finding the petrified bodies had to bause more terror than having the snake eat someone whole. The eaten person would just disappear. [14:33] <HeleneB> Gotta run. It's been fun! [14:33] *** HeleneB has quit [Bye] [14:33] <Expelliarmas> *cause [14:33] <fawkes28> sorry have to go [14:33] <Estrella> Tom's sense of entitlement is due to a massive chip on his soldier [14:33] <cloudpic> So Exp. you're saying it was a necessity [14:33] <fawkes28> bye [14:33] <cloudpic> of the plot? [14:33] <cloudpic> bye fawkes28 [14:33] <DumbleDebbie> Draco's a coward when you get right down to it, just like most bullies [14:33] <Addreamy> I think that the fact that more people weren't killed also indicates the random aspect of using"nature" to achieve your ends.... [14:33] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye] [14:33] <Addreamy> if that makes sense [14:34] <cloudpic> Nature? [14:34] <Addreamy> yeah - a basilisk [14:34] <Expelliarmas> definitely think it was necessary to create the sense of terror. In HBP, the students get in the way of the intended target. [14:34] <cloudpic> You mean the basilisk [14:34] <cloudpic> oh. [14:34] <Addreamy> less control [14:34] <DumbleDebbie> the basalisk is biological [14:34] <DumbleDebbie> rather than inanimate [14:34] <DumbleDebbie> like the necklace [14:34] <cloudpic> Not as handy as a pistol then [14:34] <Val_Halla> In CoS, if they had died early on, the school would have been evacuated [14:34] <gryffindelle> lol [14:34] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [14:34] <Addreamy> exactly [14:34] <Expelliarmas> A fireleg would have been easier, but messier. [14:35] <DumbleDebbie> but less likely than a pistol to leave fingerprints and bullet markings [14:35] <gryffindelle> yup [14:35] <Estrella> Basililsk is like a wan- another tool [14:35] <cloudpic> Very good point. [14:35] <Estrella> The snakeskin would prob be a pretty big clue [14:35] <cloudpic> ewww... [14:35] <Estrella> even if it doesn't leave gun shot residue [14:35] <Expelliarmas> but the snake only shed within the tunnels. [14:35] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, but only a parselmouth would get to see the skin [14:36] <cloudpic> Could another parseltongue talk to the basisisk even if he couldn't control it I wonder? [14:36] <cloudpic> You know, to ask it who it'd seen lately? [14:36] <DumbleDebbie> Just sit down and have a chat? [14:36] <Addreamy> lol, wouldn't TAHT be a pleasant conversation [14:36] <Pleshette> lol [14:36] <DumbleDebbie> So, if the basalisk had looked Tom inthe eye... [14:36] <cloudpic> First reading I kept expecting a kind of repeat of the zoo scene, with Harry having a chat with the poor trapped critter [14:37] <gryffindelle> hmmm. . . [14:37] <Jrg1990> oooooooo if the basilisk had looked tom in the eye we would have a very short story biggrin [14:37] <cloudpic> Sort of like Dobby only dangerous in a different way [14:37] <DumbleDebbie> how did Tom interact with it so much w/o looking at it? [14:37] *** whoispadfoot has quit [Bye] [14:37] <Expelliarmas> If Tom controlled the snake, does this mean he possessed it like he does Nagini? [14:37] <Addreamy> looked at other parts of it? [14:37] <gryffindelle> maybe he had an immunity to the stare [14:37] <Addreamy> just not the eyes. [14:37] <Estrella> Is there an equivalent to the basilisk in HBP ? [14:37] <Pleshette> I don't think Tom would have been petrified, he was a memory [14:37] <cloudpic> Tom was not a person [14:37] <Addreamy> duh - of course [14:37] <cloudpic> yeah, Pleshette [14:37] <Addreamy> but ginny was. [14:38] <DumbleDebbie> he seemed to be directing it, not inside it. he was giving it verbal commands at the end of CoS [14:38] <Expelliarmas> Neither was Nick a person, and yet ... zap! [14:38] <Val_Halla> But Ginny was not petrfied either [14:38] <cloudpic> Ginny didn't see it, just prepared things for it [14:38] <Jrg1990> i dont think you can really compare anything to the Basilisk in any form. [14:38] <DumbleDebbie> I meant Tom from the past, when he let it loose on Mrytle [14:38] <gryffindelle> if he is unaffected by the stare, that would be interesting [14:38] <Addreamy> and called it? [14:38] <Pleshette> I don't know if Ginny actually saw the snake [14:38] <Addreamy> because at that point, Tom was sitll in the diary [14:38] <cloudpic> It was in the walls a lot [14:38] <gryffindelle> ginny still couldn't speak parsletounge, could she [14:38] <gryffindelle> ? [14:38] <Addreamy> and was "posssessing" ginny, so had to use her to call the basilisk [14:39] <Addreamy> no - but Tom could [14:39] <DumbleDebbie> When Mrytle died Tom was in the bathroom and opened the sink right before the basalisk emerged [14:39] <cloudpic> Yeah, she opened the chamber, but wouldn't have had to see it...I wonder if she can now? [14:39] <Pleshette> Right addreamy [14:39] <Expelliarmas> wasn't ginny being possessed by TR, so that would account for parseltongue. [14:39] <cloudpic> Speak parseltongue [14:39] <gryffindelle> maybe [14:39] <Addreamy> so - how come Ginny wasn't petrified? We're back to that.... [14:39] <cloudpic> Like he left a bit of himself in her too (NO not, hoarcrux!!) [14:39] <Estrella> Is there anything in HBP which performs the same role as th basilisk in CoS [14:39] <Jrg1990> the thing with the basilisk that annoys me is that it follows that if its in the pipes the pipes lead to the chamber, and yet hogwarts has been so "extensively searched" would noone have ever looked for the pipes (i mean theres no way MM's bathroom is the only end to a pipe). [14:40] <Estrella> Because I can only think of some of the spells like langlock which cane be used for good or ill [14:40] <gryffindelle> but if someone is possesed, i dont know if they would be able to speak a new language fluently all of a sudden [14:40] <Expelliarmas> i don't recall of anything which could kill with a look; but we have the necklace which could kill via a touch. [14:40] <magicmeg8> In both books, we discover more about the "dark side" of society. The shop "Borgin and Burke's" not only plays important in the plot, but in the back story of the series. What depth does this add to the books and how is it necessary? [14:40] <DumbleDebbie> Draco sort of acts like the basalisk, I guess, he's VM's tool for attacking students and profs [14:40] <cloudpic> Yeah, right... [14:40] <Jrg1990> thats a good point Dumbie. [14:40] <cloudpic> And his name can mean serpent as well as Dragon [14:40] <Jrg1990> dumble* [14:40] <DumbleDebbie> ooo, good one cloudpic [14:41] <Addreamy> Actually - I see Draco almost as a counterpoint to Ginny in a way [14:41] <gryffindelle> hmm. . . [14:41] <Addreamy> except that he was aware of what he was doing [14:41] <DumbleDebbie> true, but he felt trapped into it [14:41] <cloudpic> That's a nice balance, Addreamy [14:41] <Addreamy> but - on some level he too was being forced [14:41] <DumbleDebbie> and at some level, controlled [14:41] <Addreamy> exactly [14:41] <cloudpic> They both cried ;) [14:41] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [14:41] <Addreamy> lol - true [14:41] *** andythehouseelf has quit [Bye] [14:41] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has quit [Bye] [14:42] <magicmeg8> I think Borgin and Burkes is a really important part in CoS -- knowing that an underground of sorts exists in the wizarding world. [14:42] <Expelliarmas> The shop seems to be a tool for Tom as he tracked down artifacts. [14:42] <DumbleDebbie> there's the vanishing cabinet connection from both books [14:42] <Val_Halla> It makes the wizarding world more realistic, more a mirror of the Muggle world [14:42] <DumbleDebbie> you prob already talked about that [14:42] <Jrg1990> yeah i guess if he is ginnys counterpart then he is the one being used, and then the troubles come from him, like him getting the necklace could be connected to ginny killing the roosters (in the mere connection of both being LV's tools) [14:42] <magicmeg8> Yes, Expel -- definitely a sort of springboard for him [14:42] <Pleshette> And the hand of glory [14:42] <DumbleDebbie> true, pleshette [14:42] <Aislinn> right val halla - it shows that even though magical, it still has light and dark sides [14:42] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge [14:42] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> oopsie doopsie! [14:42] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [14:43] <magicmeg8> Yeah -- it's interesting how both of them come into play, and you're like, "oh, hey! i remember that from CoS!" [14:43] <cloudpic> will Borgin and Burkes be a place to search for hoarcruxes [14:43] <Jrg1990> wb mr andy [14:43] <Addreamy> yes -so many of the artifacts we hear about in COS turn up again in HBP [14:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I fell into shadow - sorry! [14:43] <Expelliarmas> but we also have a counter to Borgin and Burkes, Fred and George's shop. [14:43] <Pleshette> Come to the light gfab! [14:43] <magicmeg8> Hey GFAB biggrin [14:43] <Addreamy> oh, very good, Expel! [14:43] <cloudpic> Oh! What a lovely point, Exelliarmas! [14:43] <magicmeg8> That's very true, expel [14:43] <Pleshette> The light is good! [14:43] <gryffindelle> and much more successful, too [14:43] <DumbleDebbie> anything else laying around B&B that might come into play, cards, rope? [14:43] <gryffindelle> the buisness [14:43] <Val_Halla> Borgin might be a good person for Harry to question [14:44] <Addreamy> but will Borgin talk to him? [14:44] <magicmeg8> true, Dumble -- I find myself trying to catalogue what we've seen there [14:44] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [14:44] <magicmeg8> Yeah, that would be interesing, VAl [14:44] <cloudpic> I wonder if Aberforth has visited B & B?? [14:44] <Expelliarmas> Do you think Fred and George are in any danger? They're developing weapons of a sort for the good guys. Even Ollivander disappeared. [14:44] <gryffindelle> hmm. . . [14:44] <cloudpic> He seems to have shadier connections in the Wizarding World... [14:44] <gryffindelle> yes [14:44] <Pleshette> Borgin seems like someone who would give info for "the right price" [14:45] *** andythehouseelf has quit [Bye] [14:45] <gryffindelle> yeah [14:45] <gryffindelle> \ [14:45] <cloudpic> Yes, lots of danger for F &G but they're up to it! [14:45] <gryffindelle> oops [14:45] <gryffindelle> sry [14:45] <gryffindelle> i sure hope so, they can't die [14:45] <Pleshette> They got on Voldie's bad side with U No Poo [14:45] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [14:45] <cloudpic> Harry has lots of money... [14:45] <Expelliarmas> Did we discuss the elves yet? [14:46] <cloudpic> And throwing snowballs at him in PS [14:46] <Addreamy> no, not yet [14:46] <Pleshette> lol [14:46] <gryffindelle> oh yeah [14:46] <Pleshette> Loved that! [14:46] *** andythehouseelf has quit [Bye] [14:46] <Expelliarmas> My biggest concern for F/G is having their toys fall into the wrong hands. [14:46] *** andythehouseelf has joined #lounge [14:46] <gryffindelle> that would be awful [14:46] <cloudpic> Well, that happened with Draco [14:46] <Val_Halla> I think they will be more careful who they sell to, now [14:47] <Jrg1990> F/G's stuff already fell into the wrong hands. [14:47] <Addreamy> I think, since they've now seen how easily that can happen, that they'lll be more careful [14:47] <gryffindelle> i hope so [14:47] <Jrg1990> think about the dark powder [14:47] <Expelliarmas> Wouldn't you love for F/G to get Umbridge? [14:47] <cloudpic> I'm not sure retailers can control that very well [14:47] <magicmeg8> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the new Corner Booth Forum (http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showforum=184). [14:47] <Val_Halla> oh yes [14:47] <gryffindelle> huh? [14:47] <Jrg1990> no. Hagrid/Lupin has to get umbridge. Its TOO fitting a half-breed get her. [14:47] <Addreamy> oh, yes. But then, I'd love ANYONE to get umbridge [14:47] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [14:48] <Val_Halla> They got her pretty good already, clip clop clip clop [14:48] <Expelliarmas> Hagrid is too nice, Lupin too decent. F/G, however, .... they could get her and Percy! [14:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi Guys! Just a reminder that today is CoC's Anniversary Party! If you are a member of the CoC, and would like to participate in today's festivities, pop on over right after Corner Booth wraps! http://www.chamberofchat.com At 3:00p we will be holding a discussion in the Runes Field and everyone is invited to offer up their speculations on who will die in Book 7! [14:48] <Expelliarmas> a two for one [14:48] <Aislinn> the elves are an interesting point, expel. We see them play important roles in both CoS and HBP. Will the also have a role to play in the final book? [14:48] <gryffindelle> awesome [14:48] <cloudpic> Turn Umbridge permanently into a toad...although that'd be insulting to Neville's toad [14:48] <Jrg1990> nah, F/G can have percy if they want, but i really want someone who could be considered half breed to get her. [14:49] <magicmeg8> Thanks, GFAB, everyone check out the CoC [14:49] <Addreamy> Aislinn - I definitely think so. They are too powerful not to [14:49] <Jrg1990> yay for the CoC [14:49] <Val_Halla> I think someone from all the races that LV disdains will have a hand in defeating him [14:49] <Expelliarmas> I come back to how RAB stole the locket in the cave. Who drank the potion for him. Think it was Kreacher which would explain a lot. [14:50] <Aislinn> that seems to be a popular theory [14:50] <cloudpic> Well, that'd be everyone...I'd like to be the Muggle rep! [14:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Other activities will follow this discussion, and please take a look in the CoC forum in the Leaky Lounge at the Essay/Filk Contest Rules. We're welcoming entries! http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showt...view=getnewpost [14:50] <Expelliarmas> lol [14:50] <Jrg1990> oh yeah, the elves will be there. I mean if only to see kreacher admit he took the locket when RAB died. Id also like to see Dobby Vs Lucius Round 2. [14:50] <Pleshette> Nice chatting everyone. Bye! [14:50] <DumbleDebbie> bye pleshette [14:50] <Addreamy> hmmm. I'd not heard that, Expel - but that is an interesting theory. [14:50] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [14:50] <Aislinn> bye pleshette [14:50] <Expelliarmas> bye pleshette [14:50] <cloudpic> bye Pleshette [14:51] <cloudpic> Maybe why Kreacher is so deranged?? [14:51] *** halfakneazle has joined #lounge [14:51] <Aislinn> yes val halla - I agree that the various races coming together will play a role in defeating the dark side [14:51] <Expelliarmas> Well, if RAB is Regulus Black and Kreacher would obey him, why wouldn't he summon Kreacher to drink the potion. Sort of like slughorn having the wine tested by houseelves. [14:51] <Aislinn> but I think its more llikely to be the Death Eaters - LV is Harry's [14:51] <magicmeg8> Mabye, cloudpic. [14:51] <Jrg1990> Dobby Vs Lucius could be such a funny fight, and it would give the house-elves a chance to REALLY show there whole power [14:51] <Addreamy> maybe in part. I again think that we see two sides of house-elf personality in cmparing Dobby and Kreacher [14:51] <Jrg1990> their* [14:52] <Aislinn> where do people think they are now? [14:52] <DumbleDebbie> Dobby vs. Lucius would be BRILIANT LOL [14:52] <Expelliarmas> Dobby punching out Kreacher was priceless. [14:52] <Addreamy> oh, it was [14:52] <halfakneazle> yeah [14:52] *** halfakneazle has quit [Bye] [14:52] <Jrg1990> yeah. [14:52] <gryffindelle> yeah [14:52] *** halfakneazle has joined #lounge [14:52] <Expelliarmas> what people are where? I'm here. [14:52] <cloudpic> Dobby and Hermoine have some things in common! [14:52] <Addreamy> Power... [14:53] <Addreamy> and a temper! [14:53] <cloudpic> Surprise us with their aggressiveness [14:53] <Aislinn> What clues could this theory give us about the series in general, and about understanding where the story might ultimately be headed? [14:53] <Expelliarmas> sorry, which theory? [14:53] <DumbleDebbie> what theory? [14:53] <Expelliarmas> Narya's theory? [14:53] <DumbleDebbie> sorry who's Narya? [14:54] <Aislinn> sorry -the linking between the 2 books [14:54] <Expelliarmas> Narya teased us with a theory she would not reveal on Wednesday night [14:54] <Aislinn> which is what we started with, so trying to bring it full circle smile [14:54] <Aislinn> that's for Wed. folks [14:54] <DumbleDebbie> how are we supposed to comment on a theory someone wont' reveal? [14:54] <cloudpic> Addreamy's been pointing out all the careful balances which JkR uses... [14:55] <DumbleDebbie> the books are on the same level in the series, second from each end [14:55] <cloudpic> It's rather a stylistic characteristic [14:55] <magicmeg8> I definitely think we'll see a return to some elements of the books -- like borgin and burkes, for instance [14:55] <cloudpic> Lovely discussion! [14:55] <Addreamy> so - projecting ahead....we might have clues to the ending if we think about what still needs to be balanced. [14:55] <cloudpic> Byes! [14:55] *** Hagiographer13 has joined #lounge [14:55] <magicmeg8> bye cloudpic! [14:55] <Aislinn> so, does that suggest that we will see similarities between one and seven? [14:55] <Addreamy> bye cloudpic [14:55] <DumbleDebbie> yep, 1 & 7 are the bookends [14:55] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [14:56] <Addreamy> I think so. [14:56] <Expelliarmas> we'll find out a bit more about the founders, so far we only really know about one. [14:56] <Jrg1990> I think that the connection in these 2 books really supports the arcial theory, and as such if we could link that to book1 Vs 7, then i guess we could possibly guess that there will be BIG clues from book 1 in 7, so maybe when it comes down to it it will end as it began, and Harry will not AK voldie, but instead someone (Ginny?) will sacrifice herself for him, and then he will deflect Voldies curse one more time and voldie with no more [14:56] <DumbleDebbie> would be interesting to look @ 3 & 5 with PoA discussions [14:56] <Val_Halla> If 1 and 7 are linked, it suggests Harry will face Lv alone again [14:56] <Addreamy> And I think it will be done with such a twist that it will send us running back to 1, going, WHAT??? [14:56] <magicmeg8> I agree, Jrg. probably some sort of sacrifice [14:56] <andythehouseelf> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO James! Ginny cant die! [14:56] <magicmeg8> lol addreamy [14:56] <DumbleDebbie> yes, sacrifice is a BIG theme [14:57] <Expelliarmas> we could give up lockhart? [14:57] <Addreamy> lol [14:57] <Jrg1990> andy! youre so happy for Harry to die, and yet you cant see ginny go? [14:57] <DumbleDebbie> I think Harry will at least have to be willing to sacrifice himself [14:57] <Addreamy> I'd make that sacrifice [14:57] <Val_Halla> Perhaps Harry will realize Snape is not evil - again [14:57] <DumbleDebbie> hoping for a loophole that'll keep him from dying (like the blood thing) [14:57] <Aislinn> As we wrap up this discussion, I just want to remind folks that there is a Scribbulus chat in here tonight at 7PM, eastern time, to discuss Mokey's essay [14:57] <Addreamy> It should be a good chat! [14:57] <magicmeg8> Check out the announcment here: http://www.leakylounge.com/-a69-in-forum77.html [14:57] <halfakneazle> yay I'm excited [14:57] <DumbleDebbie> thanks for the info Aislinn [14:58] <Hagiographer13> I think it's obvious Harry is willing to sacrifice himself--the questio is can he allow one of his loved ones to do the same--that completes the arcial theory. [14:58] <DumbleDebbie> take care all! [14:58] <Jrg1990> *does some time zone conversion* dam 7pm eastern is like midnight GMT. *wont be here* [14:58] <gryffindelle> eah [14:58] <gryffindelle> yeah [14:58] *** DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [14:58] <magicmeg8> Well, great chat, everyone! [14:59] <Aislinn> It's been fun, guys! Thanks for making it a great chat! [14:59] <Hagiographer13> (always too late--darn left coast!) [14:59] <Jrg1990> well, as the chat is ending i will bid you all adieu and take of my leave [14:59] <andythehouseelf> Thanks guys! You did great! [14:59] <Addreamy> Bye all! |
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