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Reading Group Chat Transcript 8/25/07, Chapters 3-6 of Deathly Hallows

Aislinn View Member Profile	Aug 25 2007, 03:08 PM Post #1
Chief Cat Herder Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!	Moderators: Aislinn, Prongs Patronus, Sooner Gryffindor, Mr. McGonagall [12:59] * Snuffles changed the topic to: Reading Group chat on chapters 3 - 6 of Deathly Hallows (Aislinn) [13:00] * ascellaskat has joined #lounge [13:00] * ascellaskat has quit [Bye] [13:00] * ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [13:00] * bibs has joined #lounge [13:01] <bibs> hello [13:01] <Aislinn> hi folks! [13:01] <ProngsPatronus> hey, bibs [13:01] <bibs> hey [13:01] * LillianJames has joined #lounge [13:01] * JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [13:01] <bibs> ooh! i have no chocolate [13:01] <bibs> sob [13:01] * ginginkat has joined #lounge [13:02] <bibs> hi [13:02] <JaneMarple9> It's saturday again! yay! smile [13:02] <ginginkat> hi [13:02] <bibs> no chocolate! i need to buy some when i next go out [13:03] * MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [13:03] <ProngsPatronus> hello, peeps! [13:03] <bibs> hi [13:03] * kneazlegirl has joined #lounge [13:03] <Aislinn> how is everyone today [13:03] <Aislinn> ? [13:03] <MrMcGonagall> How are we all doing today? [13:03] <kneazlegirl> Hey everyone! [13:03] <bibs> hi kneazlegirl [13:03] <JaneMarple9> i'm great [13:03] <bibs> two words [13:04] <bibs> no chocolate [13:04] * cbm has joined #lounge [13:04] <bibs> hi cbm [13:04] <cbm> Hi everyone!!! [13:04] <MrMcGonagall> Is the Booth working OK for everyone? [13:04] <bibs> yep [13:04] <kneazlegirl> Yep, I think so. [13:04] <cbm> fine for me [13:04] * ProngsPatronus has quit [Bye] [13:04] <ginginkat> ok with me [13:04] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [13:05] <bibs> i need chocolate! i have none [13:05] <cbm> I am using the older interface [13:05] <bibs> cries [13:05] <JaneMarple9> yep it's good with me, the old intergace [13:05] <JaneMarple9> interface* too [13:05] <MrMcGonagall> I tend to use the older one myself. I like to have a color that sticks! LOL [13:06] <ProngsPatronus> me, too [13:06] <bibs> im going to go make sure there is no chocolate [13:06] <cbm> the color is nice [13:06] * LillianJames left #lounge [Leaving] [13:06] <cbm> I have hershey;s kisses [13:06] <bibs> rub it in why dont ya [13:06] <cbm> lol [13:07] <ProngsPatronus> has anyone tried the new m&ms with raspberry? [13:07] * LillianJames has joined #lounge [13:07] <kneazlegirl> No, those exist? [13:07] <ProngsPatronus> yes [13:07] <Aislinn> are they any good? [13:07] <ProngsPatronus> thaven't been able to find them around here [13:07] <bibs> youre all making i t verry esy for me not to miss chocolate - arent you... [13:07] <ProngsPatronus> LOL [13:08] <MrMcGonagall> Mmmm... chocolate. [13:08] <bibs> easy* [13:08] <bibs> is sobbing [13:08] <Aislinn> hehehehe [13:08] <bibs> very nice [13:08] * MrMcGonagall thinks longingly of chocolate-covered macadamia nuts, but unfortunately they're in his office, not at home. [13:09] <Aislinn> ooh, those sound lovely, Mr M [13:09] <ProngsPatronus> my faves [13:09] <bibs> i would kill for a flake... [13:09] <ProngsPatronus> is it dark chocolate, Mr. M? [13:09] <bibs> needs a galaxy bar [13:10] <ProngsPatronus> mmm--Dove bar... [13:10] <bibs> i might have muffins! double chocolate! [13:10] <MrMcGonagall> Alas, no, not dark chocolate. But it's not a light milk chocolate, either. A little darker than Dairy Milk, in fact. [13:10] <cbm> My favorite chocolate is from leonidas in Belgium, I would love some of that right now [13:11] * blue4t has joined #lounge [13:11] <ProngsPatronus> oooooooooo [13:11] * HeliumHead has joined #lounge [13:11] <ProngsPatronus> sounds heavenly [13:11] <bibs> oh - i ate the last one on wednesday [13:11] <bibs> sob [13:11] * SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [13:11] <Aislinn> my favorite is Belgian too, but it is Dumon [13:11] <Aislinn> lovely, lovely chocolate [13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> hello everyone [13:12] <Aislinn> hey Sooner [13:12] <ProngsPatronus> Sooner's in the house! [13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> heheh [13:12] <bibs> notice how all these chats start with a talk about chocolate [13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> always [13:12] <bibs> hi [13:12] <ProngsPatronus> yes [13:12] <ProngsPatronus> our favourite subject [13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> prettymuch [13:12] <ProngsPatronus> food of the gods [13:12] <kneazlegirl> Has there ever been a [13:12] <kneazlegirl> "Chocolate in HP" chat? [13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> oooh [13:12] * bemused has joined #lounge [13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont think there has been [13:12] <Aislinn> hi bemused [13:12] <JaneMarple9> chocolate keeps the dementors from the booth!! [13:12] <MrMcGonagall> Aislinn sent me some lovely Dumon chocolate this summer. It was very yummy! [13:13] <ProngsPatronus> we have that every week, before the regular chat... [13:13] <bemused> hello [13:13] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, bemused! [13:13] <SoonerGryffindor> hello bemused [13:13] <bibs> i have chocolate stains on my poa ... dementors you see [13:13] <bemused> tricky getting in here today... but I made it... [13:13] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how Jo made chocolate an actual remedy [13:13] <blue4t> of all the books, that's the most appropriate. [13:13] *** ascellaskat has joined #lounge [13:14] <bibs> i need to go look for some thing chocolte [13:14] <bibs> chocolate* [13:15] <MrMcGonagall> I had a little trouble, too, bemused. [13:15] <bibs> aw! nothing [13:15] <bibs> cry [13:15] * kneazlegirl has quit [Bye] [13:15] <bemused> ah well.... it wasn't personal then! (I always assume I've hit the wrong thing!) [13:16] * LillianJames has quit [Bye] [13:16] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon. [13:16] * LillianJames has joined #lounge [13:16] * kneazlegirl has joined #lounge [13:16] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [13:16] * GranjoGranger has joined #lounge [13:16] <Aislinn> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [13:17] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [13:17] <GranjoGranger> Yay, I got in this time. [13:17] <Aislinn> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [13:17] <ProngsPatronus> Well, we’ve got a new book, Deathly Hallows, to dissect in the Reading Groups. The Reading Groups formally launch chapter discussions tomorrow, 11 August 07. Today, however, we’ll whet our discussion appetite with a few beginning discussion points. [13:17] <ProngsPatronus> If you have not yet sorted into a Reading Group, follow this link: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?act=Sorting&CODE=01 . We are still sorting members into Reading Groups. Hope to see you in one of the Reading Groups. [13:17] <ProngsPatronus> Thanks to the Rooftop Garden, Dragon’s Den, and Luminous Loft for the introduction and following discussion questions. Turning now to our discussion for today. Who knows, a certain greaseball might make an appearance ... [13:18] <ProngsPatronus> Back at Privet Drive, the Dursleys are finally convinced to go into hiding. Surprisingly, it’s Dudley who recognizes Harry as being worthy. Petunia and Vernon never clue in. Harry found part of the two-way mirror Sirius had given him and thinks he sees an eye in it. Elphias Doge wrote a kind obituary about Dumbledore; Rita Skeeter wrote a tease to buy her biography of Dumbledore. [13:18] <ProngsPatronus> Uncle Vernon tries to play "Let's Make A Deal" with Harry as to who should protect them and whether they should go into hiding. Harry and Uncle Vernon handle this game differently than in the past. How have things changed since POA and GOF? (Luminous Loft [13:19] <JaneMarple9> Harry knows he has power over vernon know [13:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I love Harry's newfound maturity in dealing with Vernon [13:19] <JaneMarple9> vernon and the rest of the dursleys need protecting [13:19] <blue4t> Uncle Vernon can't hold anything over Harry anymore. [13:19] <GranjoGranger> I saw insolence but in check. [13:19] <kneazlegirl> I wish I had re-read these chapters before the chat... [13:19] <blue4t> Oh, goodness, I just called that man uncle. [13:19] <Aislinn> Harry definitely deals with him adult to adult [13:20] * tinkertime has joined #lounge [13:20] <SoonerGryffindor> You can tell that Harry now sees him through adult eyes [13:20] <cbm> I also think that for the first time Vernon is actually scared [13:20] <ProngsPatronus> he tries to treat Harry as he would a business associate [13:20] <bibs> yeah [13:20] <JaneMarple9> they seem to be on the same wave-length [13:20] <bemused> Harry knows he doesn't have to return, so he's free to speak - and he knows Vernon is entering his world [13:20] <bibs> brb [13:20] <ProngsPatronus> bluster, bully, capitulation, grumble throughout [13:20] <kneazlegirl> This is the first time he's ever had to think about the Dursley's safety, really. [13:21] <bemused> wch puts Vernon at a disadvantage [13:21] <GranjoGranger> Vernon is uncomfortable. Oh goody! [13:21] <JaneMarple9> vernon doesn't treat Harry as a "child" any more, ilike a business contact [13:21] <SoonerGryffindor> for the first time Vernon is going to have to see Harry as an adult. I dont think his mind was able to comprehend that [13:21] <JaneMarple9> vernon isn't used to asking help from the wizarding community [13:21] <ProngsPatronus> and the fact that he couldn't enforce his will on Harry by abusing him [13:22] <ProngsPatronus> a big change from PS [13:22] <SoonerGryffindor> everything in this chapter was such a reverse from PS [13:22] <bemused> Vernon also has to acknowledge the reality of magic - no more pretence [13:22] <MrMcGonagall> We've come a long way [13:22] * NiGHTS has joined #lounge [13:22] <JaneMarple9> vernon is the only dursley who hasn't changed every much in the series [13:22] <GranjoGranger> Vernon starts off yelling Boy! as usual. [13:22] * NiGHTS has quit [Bye] [13:23] <ProngsPatronus> Aunt Petunia is Harry’s only remaining blood relative... but she's unable to look Harry in the face as she says 'good-bye' for the final time and marches away from him. She suddenly stops, and acts as if she is to say something, but does not. What do you think went unsaid? (Luminous Loft) [13:23] <kneazlegirl> The "reversal from the first book" theme was very strong in DH. [13:23] *** AnnaNoe has joined #lounge [13:23] <blue4t> She could've been thinking about Lily. [13:23] <bibs> uhyiu [13:23] <cbm> I think past of the change might als have been seeing kingsley with their prime minister [13:23] <MrMcGonagall> I think she wanted to say goodbye, but couldn't bring herself to do it. [13:23] <Aislinn> it would be nice to think that it might have been some form of regret [13:23] <bibs> sorry it went weird [13:23] <bemused> Some kind of recognition of the fact that he is her sister's child [13:23] <Aislinn> but she didn't have it in her [13:23] <SoonerGryffindor> this is the biggest disappointment of all to me, I think [13:24] <JaneMarple9> i think petunia wanted to apologise [13:24] <MrMcGonagall> Me too, Sooner [13:24] <Aislinn> yes, to me too [13:24] <cbm> I have no idea what she could say at that point [13:24] <SoonerGryffindor> she had another chance to redeem herself and didnt [13:24] <JaneMarple9> for making harry's life so hard [13:24] <bibs> good luck? [13:24] <kneazlegirl> There's so many things she could have said. [13:24] <JaneMarple9> i was really disappointed in petunia too - i had massive hopes of petunia [13:24] <blue4t> Maybe she wanted to tell Harry that she loved him or that he reminded her of her sister. [13:24] <cbm> good luck might have been a good start [13:24] <SoonerGryffindor> doubt it [13:24] <tinkertime> My guess is that Petunia had some sort of goodbye/apology...she knew so much more than she let on - it seemed that Lily still had contact with her after Harry was born (the ghastly vase Xmas gift) but Petunia never let Harry know about that... [13:25] <kneazlegirl> But she probably felt it was too late. [13:25] <ProngsPatronus> I think Petunia went on as she began [13:25] <ProngsPatronus> with a heart three sizes too small [13:25] <JaneMarple9> petunia should had said a deceng goodbye to harry [13:25] <bibs> "you have your mothers eyes." [13:25] <Aislinn> it's too bad she would, kneazle, as Harry is not one for thinking things are done too late. [13:25] <blue4t> I think if it was just her and Harry she might have. [13:26] <ProngsPatronus> The scene between Dudley and Harry took many readers by surprise. For 7 books, most have been satisfied with loathing Dudley. Did Dudley’s behavior here change your opinion about Harry? Why or why not? (Luminous Loft) [13:26] <SoonerGryffindor> This was probably one of the biggest pleasant shocks of all for me. Way to go Big D! [13:26] <bemused> I wanted to cheer Dudley! [13:26] <Aislinn> I was really surprised at this, initially, but it made perfect sense that he would have had an epiphany from his interaction with the Dementor [13:26] <JaneMarple9> I loved the way Dudders grew a backbone!! [13:26] <bibs> i al ways thought that what he was - a big d [13:26] <MrMcGonagall> I was happy that Dudders had a bit of a conversion. [13:26] <bemused> It wasn't easy for him, but he showed his parents how it should be done [13:26] <SoonerGryffindor> it gives you hope [13:26] <tinkertime> Yep - Big D came through in the end... just goes to show that sometimes people can change [13:27] <SoonerGryffindor> for the first time, I appreciated the fact that he was related to harry [13:27] <JaneMarple9> My jaw literally dropped when Dudders say "I don't think you're a waste of space" [13:27] <cbm> Actually, it did not shock me as I had been waiting for a consequence of the dementor attack [13:27] <kneazlegirl> Dudley and Kreacher had the same thing happen to them [13:27] <bibs> my jokes are never funny [13:27] <ginginkat> Dudders has grown up into an understanding and caring person. [13:27] <JaneMarple9> Dudley finally accepts Harry as a wizard [13:27] <tinkertime> true cbm - the Dementor attack was the trigger for the New-Imporved Big D [13:27] <kneazlegirl> I wouldn't go that far, ginginkat. [13:27] <cbm> but I was very happy to see it happen, I loved harry's reaction, [13:27] <tinkertime> improved [13:27] <kneazlegirl> But it's a good first step, anyway. [13:27] <SoonerGryffindor> for the first time in his life, Dudley was worried about someone other than himself [13:28] <bemused> I think Dumbledore might have made him think, as well [13:28] LillianJames has quit [Bye] [13:28] * LillianJames has joined #lounge [13:28] <JaneMarple9> i am thinking that dementor attack was a big turning point [13:28] <ProngsPatronus> too bad it didn't work on his parent [13:28] <SoonerGryffindor> and to think that it took a Dementor to do what his parents should have taught him all those years [13:28] <bibs> mmm [13:28] <tinkertime> that old Dementor "tough-love"? LOL [13:28] <HeliumHead> well prongs, they weren't attacked by dementors [13:29] <ProngsPatronus> All right--on to Chapter 4... [13:29] <kneazlegirl> His change of heart must have been taking place gradually since the beginning of book 5. [13:29] <ProngsPatronus> What did you make of the imagery and symbolism in this chapter, i.e., the setting sun, losing a younger brother, golden Polyjuice Potion, 7 Harrys, Voldemort’s ability to split himself into 7, etc.? (Rooftop Garden) [13:29] <kneazlegirl> It was only surprising to us because we didn't see any of it. [13:29] <cbm> I was glad to see the change in Dudley, but is saying "you aren't a waste of space that big of a complement [13:29] <SoonerGryffindor> I did not realize until discussing it that the sun was literally setting on the Dursleys [13:30] <kneazlegirl> Wow, I really need to reread. [13:30] <cbm> JKR loves to use the image of the setting sun, she does it thoughtout all of the books [13:30] <Aislinn> I loved when Harry glanced at Hermione and Ron when someone commented that not even Voldy could split himself in 7 [13:30] <kneazlegirl> The significance of there being 7 really jumped out at me the first time. [13:30] <Aislinn> yes she does, cbm [13:30] <bemused> yes, aislinn, that was a good moment [13:30] <SoonerGryffindor> and of course, Harry;s PJ potion turning gold made me want to run and post in the alchemy thread [13:30] <tinkertime> since we find later that the 7 potters idea was hatched by Snape & DD, i think it is very clever foreshadowing about Harry's being a Horcrux - but I didn't realize this until the end of the book [13:30] <bibs> i laughed nervously [13:30] <kneazlegirl> And the people I was reading it noticed a lot of references to the color gold in the early chapters. [13:31] <kneazlegirl> reading it with [13:31] <Aislinn> that certainly was a blatant alchemical reference, yes sooner [13:31] <SoonerGryffindor> about the only one I am capable of understanding laugh [13:31] <bibs> ive got a question were all of them horcruxes temporeraly? [13:31] <Aislinn> there were, kneazle- especially at the wedding [13:31] bemused is very dim when it comes to alchemy [13:31] <SoonerGryffindor> no bibs [13:31] <SoonerGryffindor> that would not transfer [13:31] <bibs> thanks [13:31] <bibs> i was worried then [13:31] <ProngsPatronus> What did you think of Harry’s memories of #4 Privet Drive? (Rooftop Garden) [13:31] <AnnaNoe> golden polyjuice...mmm aha [13:31] * cbm is dim also when it comes to alchemy [13:32] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how Jo does this. She shows us just how far harry has come [13:32] <JaneMarple9> very touchiing [13:32] *** AnnaNoe left #lounge [] [13:32] <blue4t> Even though it wasn't great, it was his home. [13:32] <kneazlegirl> I think JKR was trying to bring back memories for us, too. [13:32] <bibs> i welled up [13:32] <bibs> hedwig! [13:32] <SoonerGryffindor> It reminds me of hagrids line from book one when he tells harry that after 7 years he will not recognize himself [13:32] <tinkertime> I doubt he will ever return there now - it was more of a good-bye and good-riddance [13:32] <bibs> cupboard! [13:32] <JaneMarple9> it reminded us of the other books in the series and it prepared us for what was to come [13:32] <bemused> It was a very clever way a re-capping without doing a full 'story so far' section [13:32] <kneazlegirl> It was kind of a wink to the audience-- like, "Remember back in book 1?" [13:32] <Aislinn> yes, she seemed to be bringing the story full circle by recalling earlier events [13:32] <blue4t> I don't know, didn't he leave some of his stuff there? [13:32] <bibs> sob [13:32] <GranjoGranger> Yes very touching. He wouldn't fit in his cupboard any more. [13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> he did blue, but I think that was symbolic of him leaving that life behind him [13:33] <JaneMarple9> it was be the last time harry would have been able to look around privet drive [13:33] <bemused> It was also part of Harry losing everything connected to his childhood [13:33] <cbm> he left his junk ehind [13:33] <ProngsPatronus> the life of Unknowing [13:33] <cbm> behind [13:33] <blue4t> Oh, I know, but it's his Quidditch robes...if it were me, I'd want to go back for them. [13:33] <GranjoGranger> He left most of his stuff there. [13:33] <LillianJames> and they were school things he didn't need any more [13:33] <blue4t> anyway... [13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> it shows us just how mature Harry was when he was packing [13:33] <Aislinn> yes [13:33] <ProngsPatronus> Why was Harry so adamant in his opposition to the 7 Harry Plan? (Rooftop Garden) [13:33] <bibs> its like throwing out the t - shirt that youre so used to wearing but it doesnt fit any more [13:33] <GranjoGranger> Took only what he thought he needed in his rucksack. [13:33] <tinkertime> the symbolic separation of the childhood from the adulthood - everything in these early chapters keys on that [13:34] <blue4t> He didn't want to put anyone else in danger. [13:34] <cbm> he had a mission that does not involve school, so his quidditch robes would be unneeded [13:34] <JaneMarple9> it was the "saving people thing" [13:34] <kneazlegirl> Mainly because it put his friends in danger. [13:34] <SoonerGryffindor> because that is how Harry rolls [13:34] <bibs> yeah [13:34] <JaneMarple9> he didn't want his friends to put their lifes on the line [13:34] <blue4t> I'm not saying he should've taken the robes with him, just that when the whole thing is over he might want them, but then, that's me, not him. [13:34] <tinkertime> his alturistic nature - he cannot bear to put other people in danger on his behalf - [13:34] <JaneMarple9> he wanted to do things his own way - he could see flaws in Moody's plan [13:35] <ginginkat> the danger for his friends [13:35] <ProngsPatronus> yes, I agree, jane [13:35] <cbm> after watching people die who tried to protect him, I do not blame him for this [13:35] <Aislinn> Harry spends all of the books trying to protect other people - he never wanted any of them in harm's way [13:35] <kneazlegirl> The plan would have gone well if Snape hadn't had to expose it to keep his cover. [13:35] <Aislinn> and I think it is especially acute for him, after the people who had died for him like Sirius and Dumbledore and him parents [13:35] <GranjoGranger> yes his saving people thing. [13:35] <bibs> "oh look its harry potter avada kadavra! oh wait there he is again!" [13:35] <Aislinn> he didn't want anyone else to follow them. [13:35] <JaneMarple9> it was like sirius and albus all opver again - he'd seen them die for him [13:35] <tinkertime> Hermione knew (she always does) that he would react this way...the memory of Sirius's death being caused by his actions, still haunts him a bit [13:36] <kneazlegirl> Still, Dumbledore('s portrait) must have known the DEs would be under orders not to kill Harry. [13:36] <kneazlegirl> So really, anyone disguised as Harry would be safer that way. [13:36] <ProngsPatronus> I think Harry's spidey sense tells him this will be a disaster [13:36] <ProngsPatronus> Why were the others so adamant about volunteering to be Harry? (Rooftop Garden) [13:36] <kneazlegirl> They should have ALL been Harry, then the DEs would really have been confused. [13:36] <JaneMarple9> hermione and ron knew that harry would react in this way [13:36] <cbm> uBut DD also knew that Harry was protected by Voldemort using Harry's blood, so he knew Harry was safe [13:37] <Aislinn> because they all love him, and know that he is their best hope [13:37] <blue4t> They want to help. [13:37] <JaneMarple9> because they wanted harry away from privet drive [13:37] <bibs> brb - im bleeding [13:37] <LillianJames> they knew he would react as he did. [13:37] <HeliumHead> because had they not, harry would never have agreed [13:37] <JaneMarple9> they wanted him safe [13:37] <GranjoGranger> Everyone but Dung wanted to help. [13:37] <blue4t> That's true. He was forced. [13:37] <MrMcGonagall> I think they knew Harry would resist. [13:37] <JaneMarple9> harry didn't have much choice - 13 against 1 laugh [13:37] <ProngsPatronus> yes, as would I [13:38] <LillianJames> exactly Mr. M [13:38] <GranjoGranger> Hwas pressured into it. [13:38] <JaneMarple9> i think the sight of hermione and ron managed to change harry's mind a little [13:38] <ProngsPatronus> What was your reaction to Hedwig’s death? (Rooftop Garden) [13:38] <SoonerGryffindor> total devastation [13:38] <Aislinn> oh.my.god [13:39] <cbm> I cursed [13:39] <JaneMarple9> very sad [13:39] <kneazlegirl> I was shocked. [13:39] <ProngsPatronus> utter shock [13:39] <bibs> god - ive just spontainiously started bleeding [13:39] <ginginkat> sobs [13:39] <Aislinn> at first, it was denial, like Harry - she couldn't really be dead [13:39] <SoonerGryffindor> me too aislinn [13:39] <GranjoGranger> Honestly, at first I didn't believe it. [13:39] <Aislinn> but then, when he blew up the side car - sob [13:39] <cbm> then I was really shocked when she blew up [13:39] <kneazlegirl> It was hard not to spoil my friends who were in the room. [13:39] <MrMcGonagall> Bit of a shock, but I didn't really have time in this chapter to dwell on it. [13:39] <ascellaskat> i think i was shocked, it didn't hit me at first [13:39] <SoonerGryffindor> I must have reread those 2 pages about 5 times before I could read the rest of the flight [13:39] <blue4t> It didn't affect me when I first read it. I know that sounds bad. [13:39] <bibs> i shouted no [13:39] <tinkertime> oh wow - it shocked me - i remember thinking - this is really setting the tone for the rest of the book - I had to set it down for a few minutes - poor Hedwig [13:39] <SoonerGryffindor> I kept hoping it wasnt true [13:40] <JaneMarple9> i wasn't devasated....i saved that for another characters death ... but poor hedwig had been a faithful pet [13:40] <Aislinn> yes, the chapter went at such a frantic pace, Mr M [13:40] <MrMcGonagall> Once they kick off from the ground, everything happens so fast! [13:40] <Aislinn> it really communicated the wild, panicked nature of the escape [13:40] <JaneMarple9> i was more concerned about the death eaters following the fake harry's i'm afraid [13:40] <cbm> The entire book is much faster paced than any of her previous works [13:40] <SoonerGryffindor> once they leave Privet Drive, this chapter really goes into overdrive [13:40] <tinkertime> that whole chapter was like starting down the first big dive on a rollercoaster! [13:41] <Aislinn> it sure was, tinkertime [13:41] <kneazlegirl> I really love this chapter, it started off the book perfectly. [13:41] <ProngsPatronus> yes--it seems he loses even the things he had decided to take with him [13:41] <GranjoGranger> I just thought it was so sad, a great loss for Harry but a strong indicator of how real things would get. [13:41] <bibs> well put tinker [13:41] <Aislinn> everything got stripped away from him [13:41] <Aislinn> except his friends [13:41] <JaneMarple9> it was certainly a fast-paced chapter [13:41] <ProngsPatronus> his old life, his friends... [13:41] <SoonerGryffindor> once I had absorbed the death though, I admid I was a bit mad at Harry [13:41] <tinkertime> in retrospect - it is another severing of Harry's ties to his childhood [13:41] <SoonerGryffindor> she could FLY, why was she caged? [13:41] <LillianJames> Good point granjo [13:42] <Aislinn> yeah, I wondered that too, sooner [13:42] <kneazlegirl> Oh-- is this a good time to bring up the Hedwig is not dead theories? [13:42] <cbm> i think it was the beginning of showing us it was going to be "Greater and More Terrible" that the previous books [13:42] <JaneMarple9> because a white owl is rather notable sooner? [13:42] <ProngsPatronus> I was wondering that very thing myself, sooner [13:42] <GranjoGranger> Lack of foresight. [13:42] <JaneMarple9> the fake harrys had stuffed owls [13:42] <SoonerGryffindor> poor Hedwig. so unneccessary [13:42] <ProngsPatronus> yes--a bit like Cedric [13:42] <blue4t> If his is flying around then that could indicate that he is the real Harry. [13:42] <bibs> i think it was neccessarie [13:42] <cbm> Harry thought she was safer with him, as she had been injured previously [13:43] <JaneMarple9> exactly blue4 [13:43] <SoonerGryffindor> so because he was trying to protect her, she died,. so sad [13:43] <GranjoGranger> She could not have gone on the journey. She would have had to stay elsewhere. [13:43] <bibs> she was his last link to child hood [13:43] <Aislinn> yes she was [13:43] <ProngsPatronus> Voldemort can now fly! What did you think of that development? (Rooftop Garden) [13:43] <LillianJames> just like Sirius, sooner [13:43] <cbm> also, if she flew, she could be followed to where Harry was [13:43] <kneazlegirl> That was just awesome. [13:43] <ProngsPatronus> scary! [13:43] <JaneMarple9> first decent present harry ever got! [13:43] <tinkertime> i'm not sure about the unecessary - although I wish she had made it through...JKR seemed to have some clear "benchmarks" for Harry to separate from his old self into Voldy nemesis - [13:43] * jaimedanser has joined #lounge [13:43] <cbm> awesome [13:43] <SoonerGryffindor> I have to admit that the concept of VoldiePan is downright scary [13:44] <jaimedanser> Hey [13:44] <JaneMarple9> pretty scary! [13:44] <bibs> every one flies in the movie! [13:44] <MrMcGonagall> Seemed a bit peculiar to me. Perhaps it was just to make him more frightening. [13:44] <bemused> ah... no... I thought Hedwig's death set us up to think Hagrid had died at the end of the chapter, cos he was also linked to that part of Harry's life [13:44] <Aislinn> I got hung up on trying to visualize exactly how he was flying [13:44] <cbm> VoldiePan LOL [13:44] <GranjoGranger> Not surprised at his ability to fly. [13:44] <Aislinn> was it like he was sitting on a broom that wasnt' there, or like Superman? biggrin [13:44] <jaimedanser> what are we discussing? [13:44] <tinkertime> I wasn't really surprised - something about Voldy hopping onto a broom, just seems silly somehow, plus it shows his increasing power [13:44] <GranjoGranger> There is so little left of Voldy. [13:44] <Aislinn> Voldemort's ability to fly, jaime [13:44] <jaimedanser> ok [13:44] <ProngsPatronus> jaime, we are discussing VoldiePan [13:44] <bibs> how will they make it look different in the movie [13:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I guess Voldie is too cool to ride a broom [13:45] <bemused> also the fact that he's a bit insubstantial [13:45] <JaneMarple9> i could not see Voldemort flying on a broomstick [13:45] <jaimedanser> I couldn't see him on a broom, either [13:45] <ProngsPatronus> I wonder if anyone saw his underwear--and whether it was grey, too... [13:45] <jaimedanser> he'd want something more exciting [13:45] <LillianJames> Made him seem more invincible somehow. [13:45] <JaneMarple9> never really thought how he got around, but i couldn't imagine a broomstick [13:45] <SoonerGryffindor> On a serious note, I think it sets him up to be more omnipotent that we at first thought he was. [13:45] <MrMcGonagall> The Dark Lord Ascending. [13:45] <kneazlegirl> Do you think that kind of flying is dark magic? [13:45] <bemused> true, Sooner [13:45] <Aislinn> it certainly shows that he has powers that most wizards do not [13:45] <GranjoGranger> I agree sooner. [13:46] <jaimedanser> kneazle--yes, I do [13:46] <bibs> its just..........scary [13:46] <kneazlegirl> Yeah, it definitely made him seem more threatening and scary. [13:46] <GranjoGranger> He has all of the dark powers. [13:46] <JaneMarple9> it did seem to make him more invincible [13:46] <ProngsPatronus> Should Voldemort have caught the dig directed at him by the use of “7” Harrys? (Rooftop Garden) [13:46] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [13:46] <blue4t> No, he's not smart enough. ;) [13:46] <cbm> I think it all fits together with part of the 2nd propecy, "greater and more terrible", so JKR gave him more powers [13:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that was an excellent "in your face" by DD [13:47] <bemused> he may not have realised there were 7 [13:47] * Witchchylde has joined #lounge [13:47] <bibs> the death eaters are the lost boys - theyre not good enough to fly [13:47] <JaneMarple9> 7 harrys - 7 part of voldie's soul? [13:47] <tinkertime> He's too egotistical to think anyone else could conceive what he had [13:47] <Witchchylde> Aw, poor ickle DE's [13:47] <GranjoGranger> No because he was still unaware that anyone knew about the horcruxes. [13:47] <jaimedanser> perhaps...but he thinks to highly of himself [13:47] <LillianJames> i agree tinker [13:47] <jaimedanser> to think of what harry might do to try and...confuse him [13:47] <JaneMarple9> i think voldie was more concerned of finding the "right harry" [13:47] <kneazlegirl> Voldie hasn't been reading enough HP discussions. [13:47] <ProngsPatronus> he should have, but he is too blinded by his own cleverness to get the joke [13:47] <cbm> I do not think so, because the person who came up with seven Harrys, did not know about the horcruxes [13:48] <Witchchylde> More killing the spares then? [13:48] <bibs> can you imagine voldy being all like "lol they got me!" [13:48] <JaneMarple9> he must had been confused when he saw them all. [13:48] <SoonerGryffindor> DD is the one who came up with the plan, cbm [13:48] <Witchchylde> But Snape was the one who suggested the seven Harrys [13:48] <jaimedanser> bibs--haha laugh [13:48] <cbm> are we sure of that [13:48] <bemused> I think it was all a bit rushed for anyone to be making connections like that [13:48] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, we see it in chapter 33 [13:48] <GranjoGranger> What I meant was V did not know that anyone knew. [13:48] <Witchchylde> He was the one who implanted the sugestion in Dung's mind [13:49] <ProngsPatronus> What did you think of Harry’s magical performance during the chase? (Rooftop Garden) [13:49] <cbm> but did DD tell him to use 7 [13:49] <SoonerGryffindor> he was the one who told Snape to implant it in Dungs mind [13:49] <bibs> he rocked [13:49] <kneazlegirl> Yeah, DD came up with the idea. [13:49] <jaimedanser> I thought it was amazing! Must be hard to do spells in a tiny sidecar flying [13:49] <GranjoGranger> He was great. [13:49] <JaneMarple9> very impressive [13:49] <Aislinn> I think he was great - his natural instincts kicked in [13:49] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it was great that he was able to overcome both LV's and Hagrid;s magic [13:49] <Witchchylde> The wand performed exceptionally well [13:49] <Aislinn> and all the stuff he learned teaching the DA [13:49] <bemused> He was brave, effective and stuck to his principles [13:49] <JaneMarple9> especailly after losing hedwig and the firebolt [13:49] <Witchchylde> Poor Stan [13:49] <blue4t> It wasn't Harry, it was his wand. ;) [13:49] <jaimedanser> I loved how he refused to kill Stan biggrin [13:50] <kneazlegirl> I was busy being confused over what the wand did at the end. [13:50] <Aislinn> me too! [13:50] <bibs> harry! i love you! [13:50] <Aislinn> and how he defended that decision to Lupin [13:50] <jaimedanser> yep [13:50] <GranjoGranger> Me too [13:50] <Aislinn> it really showed what he is made of. [13:50] <kneazlegirl> I was sure that Stan was actually a DE for a few moments. [13:50] <JaneMarple9> yeah harry seemed to know that stan was under the impervius curse [13:50] <SoonerGryffindor> yes [13:50] <Witchchylde> I suppose it was partial punishment for having the cheek to claim being a Death Eater when he wasn't, to be used as a DE shield during the attempt to grap Harry [13:50] <kneazlegirl> Then I realized how ridiculous that was. [13:50] <Witchchylde> er, grab [13:50] <JaneMarple9> imperius* curse too [13:50] <SoonerGryffindor> we actually see Harry stun other DE's, but he recognized that Stan was not there of his own will [13:50] <bibs> i love how he defeated voldy with expelliarmus [13:50] <SoonerGryffindor> to Harry that made a difference [13:51] <jaimedanser> bibs--me too smile [13:51] <blue4t> Harry has a heart. [13:51] <GranjoGranger> I still think other DA members would have used that spell too and don't see how it identified Harry. [13:51] <JaneMarple9> yeah expelliarmus is harry's signature spell [13:51] <Witchchylde> A kind heart [13:51] <bibs> lol [13:51] <kneazlegirl> I was happy to see Harry using expelliarmus. [13:51] <ProngsPatronus> What did you make of the reaction of Harry’s wand to Voldemort’s attempt to curse Harry? (Rooftop Garden) [13:51] <bibs> i want to hear voldy say lol just once [13:51] <Witchchylde> Keeping his practice in for when he beats Voldie at the end with it [13:51] <SoonerGryffindor> that whole thing was confusing [13:51] <blue4t> Was it his signature spell that identified him or that he wouldn't do anything to Shunpike? [13:51] <kneazlegirl> "Wait, what just happened?" [13:51] <cbm> I was very confused by that [13:52] <jaimedanser> that was confusing [13:52] <Aislinn> I was too [13:52] <bemused> on first reading i didn't really take in what it had done... [13:52] <Witchchylde> I understand it was a sort of bloodhound on a scent reaction [13:52] <GranjoGranger> He had worked so hard to teach them to use the easy spells. [13:52] <ginginkat> I was confused also [13:52] <jaimedanser> I had no idea what it was until "Kings Cross" [13:52] <SoonerGryffindor> honestly, I ignored that my need to know the outcome of the flight [13:52] <kneazlegirl> I thought it was kind of cheap at first. [13:52] <blue4t> I didn't realize that happened until Harry mentioned it later. [13:52] <Aislinn> couldn't understand why his wand would act that way against one not its brother [13:52] <bibs> all hail harrys wand [13:52] <kneazlegirl> It seemed like a deus ex machina to get him out of the situation. [13:52] <bemused> I was too busy mourning Hedwig.... [13:52] <JaneMarple9> it was his signature spell what gave him away i think [13:52] <MrMcGonagall> Yikes! Obscure wandlore. [13:52] <bibs> wandlore rockd [13:52] <kneazlegirl> But then it turns out to just be a part of wandlore and how important that was. [13:52] <cbm> I thought it was some type of accidental magic [13:52] <Aislinn> I loved all the wandlore in this book. [13:52] <MrMcGonagall> The fact that is destroyed Lucius' wand was interesting. [13:53] <Witchchylde> It recognized Voldemort and was responding to his presence. Lucius's pretty snakehead wand never stood a chance [13:53] <HeliumHead> it was a method to introduce the intricacies of wandlore [13:53] <SoonerGryffindor> there was a lot of magical theory that I did not like in this book. Harry's wand acting like this is one of those [13:53] <cbm> wandlore is amazing [13:53] <JaneMarple9> to me, it was like the graveyard scene in goblet of fire [13:53] <Aislinn> yes, Lucius has really come down in the world in this book [13:53] <bibs> maybe its all got something to do with wandycorn [13:53] <JaneMarple9> although of course, now i realise voldie didn't have his own "brother" wand [13:53] <jaimedanser> yea, it recongised Voldy. That was confusing, though. Took me a week (and 2 more rereads) to fully comprehend it [13:53] <Aislinn> I loved all the magical theory, Sooner [13:53] <Aislinn> it was fascinating to learn all these new things. [13:53] <ProngsPatronus> me, too [13:53] <bemused> mmm - me too - once I'd got the hang of it [13:53] <LillianJames> Took me a reread, too. [13:53] <MrMcGonagall> I think Jo had been reading the Magical Theory forum on Leaky! [13:54] <SoonerGryffindor> a lot of it didt make sense [13:54] <Aislinn> hahahahaha [13:54] <jaimedanser> MrM--I like that idea smile [13:54] <kneazlegirl> I still haven't reread, so hopefully it will become more clear when I do. [13:54] <JaneMarple9> i find wandlore confusing smile [13:54] <MrMcGonagall> We discuss so many of those kinds of questions there. [13:54] <Witchchylde> Funny, I got that right away, all that talk Ollivander did about the wand choosing the wizard, I had a sense that wands do have a kind of instincual consciousness [13:54] <bibs> brb [13:54] <ProngsPatronus> Upon becoming Harry, the twins joked about being identical. This was the last time they would be able to do so. What did you think when you realized the twins would no longer be identical? (Rooftop Garden) [13:54] <Aislinn> yes, witchchylde, like they respond to something in the DNA or something [13:54] <cbm> :( [13:54] * tinkertime has quit [Bye] [13:54] <blue4t> I was saddened by that. [13:54] <bemused> Heartbreaking [13:54] <Aislinn> or the soul [13:54] <SoonerGryffindor> it was sad [13:54] <jaimedanser> it was sad!!! RIP George's ear [13:54] <GranjoGranger> So sad. [13:55] <Witchchylde> Um, that Fred would have to be sorry he made that 'still the better looking one' crack? [13:55] <ProngsPatronus> I thought then that one of them would surely die [13:55] <ascellaskat> that was so sad [13:55] <blue4t> I was also a little grossed out by George having just a hole on the side of his head. [13:55] <GranjoGranger> Glad that they did not know. [13:55] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that was when I started becoming really suspicious that we would lose a twin [13:55] <Aislinn> really, Prongs? I was lulled into a thought that they might skate by, even though I've always known one would die. [13:55] * tinkertime has joined #lounge [13:55] <JaneMarple9> yes me too sooner [13:55] <kneazlegirl> I was actually relieved because I thought "Okay, now it's less likely that she'll kill them, since one is already injured" [13:55] <ProngsPatronus> I wondered, briefly, if they were going to modify the Extendable Ears for him... [13:55] <Witchchylde> But he wore it proudly as a battle scarinstead of hiding it in shame. [13:55] <Aislinn> :D [13:55] <jaimedanser> kneazle--i kinda felt that way too [13:56] <blue4t> I thought about that, Prongs. [13:56] <LillianJames> Knd of thought that would be the worst that would happen to them [13:56] <JaneMarple9> but there again, even after the loss of an ear, george still kept his sense of humour! [13:56] <SoonerGryffindor> I think its ironic that one of the inventors of invisible ears lost an actuial ear [13:56] <Aislinn> yes, I was hoping that would be true, but alas, it wasn't [13:56] <tinkertime> i was surprised they couldn't come up with a magical ear replacement [13:56] <Witchchylde> And if anyone knew the singing spell Snape used to mend Draco's arm, George's ear would have been saved. [13:56] <ProngsPatronus> no--there was just a feeling for me that this was the first separation [13:56] <bibs> im back [13:56] <ProngsPatronus> but not the worst [13:56] <Witchchylde> Not invisible, Extendable [13:56] <JaneMarple9> I thought that too prongs - or maybe extendable ears were foreshadowing of geoprge's ear [13:57] <bibs> what are we talking about [13:57] <Witchchylde> George's ear [13:57] <Aislinn> George losing his ear [13:57] <bibs> awww [13:57] <blue4t> The twins not being identical anymore. [13:57] <tinkertime> moody had a magical eye ... [13:57] <GranjoGranger> After I got used to the reality, I thought that at least he can still hear. [13:57] * SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [13:57] <HeliumHead> well an eye has a socket, an ear is on the surface [13:57] * SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [13:58] <Witchchylde> Ooh, it's the reverse of Bill's earring, drawing attention to his ear with decoration, isn't it? [13:58] <bibs> im so glad it was snape trying to save lupins life and not him just being evil [13:58] <ProngsPatronus> great point, Witchchylde [13:58] <bemused> me too, bibs [13:58] <GranjoGranger> Actually the outer part just directs the sound. [13:58] <kneazlegirl> It really could have been a lot worse, though. [13:58] <JaneMarple9> when i read of george's ear being cursed by snape at first, it confirmed how evil snape was to me [13:58] <Aislinn> did he know which Harry was the real one? [13:58] <Witchchylde> He could hang a trumpet on his head if he wished [13:58] <GranjoGranger> I think he could still hear. [13:58] <blue4t> He's going to have trouble wearing glasses (but then he can use magic) [13:59] <Aislinn> if he didn't, then he cut off Harry's ear [13:59] <kneazlegirl> I was getting a bit worried about Snape at that point, too. [13:59] <JaneMarple9> well snape taught harry expelliarmus [13:59] <Witchchylde> Oh, did you know there's a way of wearing glasses as a nose bridge piercing? [13:59] <JaneMarple9> he probably recognised harry from that [13:59] <blue4t> I think Snape could tell if it was the real Harry just by the way the "Harry" reacted. [13:59] <bemused> but he wasn't aiming at the ear, Aislinn, he was aiming at the DE who was about to curse Lupin [13:59] <Aislinn> but they were separated at that point, jane - he didn't know the other one used expelliarmus [13:59] <Witchchylde> Wanted to cut off that guy's wand hand and missed [13:59] <LillianJames> I figured snape wasnt' all evil, because he could have done much more--it was just for appearance of loyalty to LV [13:59] <Aislinn> right, but he still injured "harry" [13:59] <GranjoGranger> I was totally convinced Snape was all bad at that point. [13:59] <ProngsPatronus> All right, folks--time to move on to the next chapter... [14:00] <ProngsPatronus> The chapter is titled ‘Fallen Warrior’ – before reading the chapter, to whom did you initially think it referred to? Who were you most worried about? (Dragon’s Den) [14:00] <Witchchylde> Aw, Alastor [14:00] <bibs> hagrid [14:00] <JaneMarple9> i thought it was hedwig [14:00] <SoonerGryffindor> hagrid [14:00] <bemused> Hagrid [14:00] <kneazlegirl> I wonder if JKR tried to make Snape seem even more evil because she knew we all thought he was good. [14:00] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [14:00] <blue4t> Hagrid! [14:00] <Witchchylde> I thought maybe Remus [14:00] <JaneMarple9> then i thought it was hagrid [14:00] <MrMcGonagall> I assumed it was Hagrid, only because he had just taken a diger. [14:00] <bibs> since hed just fell out of the sky [14:00] <GranjoGranger> hagrid and lupin [14:00] <MrMcGonagall> digger [14:00] <Aislinn> I was sur [14:00] <LillianJames> I was sure it was Hagrid [14:00] <Aislinn> sure it was Hagrid [14:00] <Witchchylde> Accio Hagrid! Oh that was the best! [14:00] <kneazlegirl> It actually didn't even register in my mind. [14:00] cbm has joined #lounge [14:00] <Aislinn> that was, Witchchylde ! [14:00] <JaneMarple9> seeming hagrid was lying motionless in the last chapter [14:00] <bibs> acio hagrid....lol [14:01] <kneazlegirl> And you'll all hate me for saying this, but I really really wanted Hagrid to die. [14:01] * jaimedanser has quit [Bye] [14:01] <SoonerGryffindor> the moment I realized it was not Hagrid, I guessed it was Moody [14:01] <Aislinn> wanted him to die! [14:01] <Witchchylde> Don't hate ya, just don't follow why [14:01] <bemused> accio Hagrid - bless him, he had to try, but he'd have been in a fix if it had worked! [14:01] <SoonerGryffindor> gasp [14:01] <Aislinn> why was that? [14:01] <blue4t> I never thought about Moody. [14:01] <kneazlegirl> He's been more any more useless in every book. [14:01] <bibs> i thought hagrid was going to die [14:01] <Aislinn> he would have been, bemused! [14:01] <JaneMarple9> i never thought of moody either [14:01] <SoonerGryffindor> useless! [14:01] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry owes Hagrid his life [14:01] <kneazlegirl> If you think about it, he's really jus t been wasting pagetime since book 4. [14:01] <Aislinn> he has been very important to Harry [14:01] <bibs> but then again i thought draco would be dead by chapter 5 [14:01] * JeffHpFan has joined #lounge [14:01] <Witchchylde> I thought he was rather clever in getting Grawp taught to be a bit more civilized and teaching him something about loyalty [14:02] <JeffHpFan> hi all [14:02] <kneazlegirl> He almost got Harry killed more times than he saved Harry. [14:02] <JaneMarple9> hagrid isn't useless smile. He's a little like Luna.... unique [14:02] <bibs> he had no lines till about malfoy mannor [14:02] <Aislinn> and tame the Thestrals [14:02] <SoonerGryffindor> hello Jeff. Hagrid has taught Harry many valuable life lessons [14:02] <Aislinn> yes he has [14:02] <kneazlegirl> Maybe, but what did he do after book 3? [14:02] <bibs> hi jeff [14:03] <SoonerGryffindor> Hagrid is the ultimate Gryffindor. The man jumped out of a flying motorcyle onto a DE [14:03] <GranjoGranger> Hagrid +Sloghorn= memory. [14:03] <blue4t> Hagrid? He had a Support Harry Potter party. [14:03] <Aislinn> served Dumbledore, acted as a needed friend [14:03] <ProngsPatronus> and saved Harry's life in so doing [14:03] <bibs> hagrid rocks [14:03] <Aislinn> yes, he saved Harry in the escape [14:03] <SoonerGryffindor> he brought Grawp into the story which saved them from the centaurs [14:03] <kneazlegirl> Grawp did absolutely nothing. [14:03] <bemused> I don't think Harry would have made it through 6 books without Hagrid [14:03] <cbm> but he jumped off and left the motorcycle with no driver [14:03] * tinkertime has quit [Bye] [14:03] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry was on it [14:03] <bibs> grawp rocks too [14:04] * tinkertime has joined #lounge [14:04] <ProngsPatronus> In the Expelliarmus versus Avada Kedavra debate, who had the more compelling argument? Was Lupin correct that Harry should have stunned Stan? (Dragon’s Den) [14:04] <Witchchylde> The DE had to be stopped. [14:04] <cbm> I agree with lupin [14:04] <SoonerGryffindor> Lupin was wrong. I hate to say it, but I was so mad at Lupin in this chapter [14:04] <bemused> I think Lupin and Harry were both correct [14:04] <Aislinn> Harry was right to do what he did. [14:04] <Witchchylde> Oh, of course not. That's the standard logic but it's not the responsible choice. [14:04] <blue4t> If Harry stunned Stan it might have given the DEs the impression that this "Harry" is not the real Harry. [14:04] <HeliumHead> either would have been effective had they hit [14:04] <blue4t> But, I do think Harry made the right decision. [14:04] <bibs> yeah i agree with bemused [14:04] <Aislinn> I can understand Lupin's concern, but Harry's choice was the moral one. [14:04] <kneazlegirl> Harry was right to point out that stunning Stan might have killed him. [14:04] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry stayed true to his own code of ethics [14:04] <kneazlegirl> And that would have been way out of line. [14:04] <bemused> Lupin's advice was sound, in the circumstances, but Harry was right to act on what he believed [14:04] <tinkertime> Lupin was correct that it attracted attention to Harry - but I don't think he was right that Harry should have aimed to do more damage...that goes against Harry's core character [14:05] <JaneMarple9> i was mad with lupin too [14:05] <JaneMarple9> i was beginning to wonder about lupin - he seemed very out of character [14:05] <GranjoGranger> From the war standpoint lupin was right. From the Harry standpoint, he must never AK anybody. [14:05] <bibs> i love lupin [14:05] <kneazlegirl> What kind of victory would it be if Harry became a murderer? [14:05] <Witchchylde> Calling attention to himself may have saved the lives of the other five who didn't Apparate out of the scene [14:05] * JeffHpFan left #lounge [Leaving] [14:05] <Aislinn> yes, kneazle, exactly This post has been edited by Aislinn: Aug 25 2007, 03:19 PM

Aislinn View Member Profile	Aug 25 2007, 03:15 PM Post #2
Chief Cat Herder Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!	[14:05] <bibs> but he was only half right [14:05] <SoonerGryffindor> I realize that they were all under stress, but Lupin came down pretty hard on Harry at a time when he was very down [14:05] <MrMcGonagall> Hmm. I'm not sure. I think Harry was morally right, but Lupin was not necessarily wrong. Harry's action was the more noble and heroic of the two, but Lupin is justified in his argument. [14:05] <ProngsPatronus> I think that they are talking about it from different perspectives--Lupin's uis tactical, and Harry's is moral [14:05] <Aislinn> I think it was fear talking, sooner [14:06] <cbm> but what harry did could have killed him also, we have seen expel.. knock wizards off their feet, so Harry might have knock stan off his broom if it hit [14:06] <ProngsPatronus> two rights which make a wrong [14:06] <Witchchylde> And yet later he had to admit that Harry was pretty much right most of th e time, possibly about this as well as standing by Nymphadora [14:06] <bemused> Lupin was also under a lot of strain [14:06] <HeliumHead> agreed MrM [14:06] <Aislinn> He had watched his friends die the first time around, and was terrified for Harry and for Tonks and the others [14:06] <LillianJames> Lupin's concern was that Harry continue to survive [14:06] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry was right. You dont change who you are and become a murderer just because the other side is doing it [14:06] <bibs> harry shouldnt have done expelliarmus but he shouldnt have not done it either [14:06] <Witchchylde> What the, a Protego? [14:06] <SoonerGryffindor> besides, the DE's all made the decision to be there... stan did not. It makes a difference [14:06] <Witchchylde> er, then [14:07] <Aislinn> yes, that is something that I think Jo has been exploring throughout the books - what compromises are you willing to make to fight evil? [14:07] <bemused> I think this is another part of Harry losing his childhood - the adults have stopped being warm and protective and started treating him as one of them [14:07] * Eleanora has joined #lounge [14:07] <Eleanora> Hey everyone [14:07] <Witchchylde> Well I don't know how much free will any of the DE's have in terms of choosing whether or not to obey Voldemort's orders [14:07] <Witchchylde> Hi Eleanora [14:07] <GranjoGranger> Hello [14:07] <kneazlegirl> Harry probably couldn't think of any other way to stop the DEs without killing them. [14:07] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry actually does stun other DE's [14:07] <Aislinn> and I think that it is great that Harry is not willing to compromise his ethics [14:07] <SoonerGryffindor> they made the decision to be DE's in the first place [14:07] <bibs> hi [14:07] <LillianJames> Your choices are what make you who you are. [14:07] <ProngsPatronus> Why did Lupin assume one of the Order betrayed them? (Rooftop Garden) [14:07] <bemused> That's true Sooner - but Lupin probably didn't know that [14:07] <cbm> the other DEs might have been under imperio also [14:07] <Aislinn> quite right, LillianJames [14:07] <blue4t> Because they knew when Harry would be leaving? [14:08] <bemused> Because they were ambushed [14:08] <GranjoGranger> How else would the DEs know the plan? [14:08] <Witchchylde> Because there was no one outside of the Order who knew what the real plan was, it was rumored Harry wouldn't leave until his 17th birthday [14:08] <cbm> also, because betrayal had played such a big part in his previous life [14:08] <SoonerGryffindor> really when you think about it, its not all that logical. Why was it so surprising that DE's would be watching the place? [14:08] <Aislinn> yes, it was a secret plan, and the DE's should have been fooled by the false date that had been put out there [14:08] <bibs> because lupin knew tat the order were the only ones that knew [14:08] <HeliumHead> because, he could think of no other reason that LV would know the date [14:08] <tinkertime> Lupin was "technically" right, but he didn't know Snape was trying to help or that Snape was still involved [14:08] <Aislinn> but that many, sooner? [14:08] <bemused> I think one of the Order did betray them [14:08] <SoonerGryffindor> why not? [14:08] * beatlette has joined #lounge [14:08] <Eleanora> The order where the only ones [14:08] <Witchchylde> Except it was Dumbledore's portrait and Severus who gave the plan its shape to begin with [14:08] <kneazlegirl> I was surprised he thought of a traitor first-- why not think someone might be under imperius, or had been veritaserum'd? [14:08] <SoonerGryffindor> troops are often set into place days before a battle [14:08] <bibs> i thought it was tonks [14:09] <cbm> I thought it was fleur for quite a bit [14:09] <bibs> dont kill me [14:09] <Aislinn> they only had 2 watching GP later on [14:09] <SoonerGryffindor> but they did not know for sure Hary was there [14:09] <blue4t> Did they ever think it was Snape that did it? [14:09] <SoonerGryffindor> they all knew for sure Harry was at Privet Drive [14:09] <bemused> No - we saw the portrait tell Snape to give the right date to LV [14:09] <bemused> we were never told how they knew the right date [14:09] <Eleanora> Maybe they didn't consider Snape as a real memeber of the order anymore [14:09] <Aislinn> the reason troops are moved into place days ahead is that it takes time, logistically. That's not true in the wizarding world. [14:09] <tinkertime> they never thought it was snape - cause they didn't realize snape had this plan with DD [14:09] <Eleanora> so they didn't consider him [14:09] <Witchchylde> I never thought there was a traitor, only a secret plan Snape was working on that would preserve the innocence of his 'source' [14:09] <SoonerGryffindor> lol aislinn [14:10] <ginginkat> . [14:10] <Witchchylde> Because none of them read Chapter One [14:10] <ProngsPatronus> I thought of Mundungus, actually [14:10] <kneazlegirl> For all Lupin knew, someone might have been captured, gotten information from, and then memory charmed. [14:10] <GranjoGranger> Actually it was DD who did it because he told Snape to pass it on. [14:10] <blue4t> LOL, witchy [14:10] <bibs> lol [14:10] <bemused> I think it was Mundungus, Prongs [14:10] <SoonerGryffindor> I think its interesting that after Arhtur, noboby bothers to check the identies of anybody else who arrives [14:10] <Eleanora> yeah Mundungus was the most shifty [14:10] <Witchchylde> Bemused, have you read the whole book then? [14:10] <Aislinn> yes, that was odd. [14:10] <kneazlegirl> I like that the "traitor" turned out to be DD, though. [14:10] <Eleanora> he was the one acting like he didn't wanna be there [14:11] <bibs> i still thought it was tonks [14:11] <bemused> yes - the protrait told Snape to give the truth to LV [14:11] <GranjoGranger> All I could think of was that DD wanted Snape solidly entrenched as a DE. [14:11] <bemused> the portrait didn't tell Snape the date - and I can't see how the portrait would have known the Order's plan [14:11] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, that was a tactical decision taht DD is famous for [14:11] <ProngsPatronus> Given George’s ear was lost to Dark Magic, and given Snape’s accomplishment in the Dark Arts, could Snape have restored George’s ear? Why or why not? (Rooftop Garden) [14:11] <Witchchylde> Also, it's a reflection of the traitor among their midst from when Lily and James were in danger, with just as much mosplaced suspicion [14:11] <bibs> dd is the reason hedwig and moody are dead [14:11] <SoonerGryffindor> he was willing to sacrifice Order lives to ensure LV's trust of Snape [14:11] <kneazlegirl> If he had the ear, maybe. [14:11] <Eleanora> Maybe the date was discussed in the headmasters office [14:11] <Witchchylde> misplaced [14:11] <cbm> maybe [14:11] <Aislinn> I think he could have, if he had done so immediately following the injury. [14:12] <Eleanora> or it was passed on to Dumbledore because hes in the order [14:12] <bemused> Agree, Aislinn [14:12] <Witchchylde> Just liek when he fixed Draco's arm after Harry Sectumsepra'd him [14:12] <cbm> he was able to heal draco in a hurry [14:12] <blue4t> I don't know. Is there a way to restore the ear? If there is, then yes, I would think Snape could have restored the ear, but too much time has probably passed so no, the ear cannot be restored. [14:12] <HeliumHead> possibly if he had been able to do something immediately [14:12] <SoonerGryffindor> wouldnt they have to have the ear? [14:12] <Witchchylde> But clearly it's complicated, a song of a spell [14:12] <bemused> but there was no way he could get to George [14:12] <tinkertime> since snape invented the spell and seemed to have the "sing-song" cure - i think he could have done something - although it may not have restored the ear.. [14:12] <bibs> im not sure [14:12] <HeliumHead> though the ear would have been required [14:12] <Witchchylde> Accio ear, anyone? [14:12] <kneazlegirl> True, it might have depended on acting fast. [14:12] <GranjoGranger> They did not have the ear. [14:13] <kneazlegirl> Accio ear=brilliant. [14:13] <Aislinn> well, Snape would never have been able to get close enough to George to actually fix it, given the Order's beliefs. [14:13] <bibs> lol [14:13] <kneazlegirl> They can accio anything! [14:13] <tinkertime> eeewwww - then somwhere in England the ear fell down - yuck! [14:13] <GranjoGranger> love accio george's ear. [14:13] <MrMcGonagall> Maybe they could have tried some Muggle stitches. [14:13] <SoonerGryffindor> honestly, I did not care about the ear in my releif that everyone was alive [14:13] <HeliumHead> however, seeing that snape hadn't the luxury of fixing george's ear... [14:13] <kneazlegirl> Someone should write a mini fic about who the ear landed on. [14:13] <Witchchylde> And probably some wild animal or stray dog got a special treat that night [14:13] <bibs> im now using hair brush as wand and shouting accio ear [14:13] <Aislinn> eww, Witchchylde [14:13] <GranjoGranger> We wouldn't want just anybody's ear. [14:14] * bemused thinks this has gone far enough.... [14:14] <kneazlegirl> Agreed, Sooner. [14:14] <ProngsPatronus> Why was Hermione surprised at Ron’s good performance against the DEs? What did you think of Ron’s “always the tone of surprise” comment? Why did Ron perform well in battle? (Rooftop Garden) [14:14] <Witchchylde> Well when that Bobit guy was, er, injured, they had to get the part from a dog. [14:14] <Witchchylde> She was trying to be complimentary and kind of muffed it [14:14] <tinkertime> Ron's becoming the "Man-Ron" - finally... [14:14] <Aislinn> we don't know how well Hermione performed - she may have been terrified and not particularly helpful. [14:14] <blue4t> I didn't think she was surprised that she believed Ron would never do something like that. I thought it was more of a happy shock that Ron was so powerful. [14:15] <bibs> because ron just rocks in general [14:15] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont think Herminoe was surprised, but since Ron has always been unusre of himself he misinterpreted the reaction [14:15] <LillianJames> He didn't always do so well, did he? [14:15] <MrMcGonagall> Ron isn't wholly incompetent, but he's not exactly the best dueller. [14:15] <Witchchylde> She does seem terrified in flight [14:15] <GranjoGranger> Ron can act well under pressure as long as he can't mull it over. [14:15] <Aislinn> so it may have been an admirable surprise of wow, you kept your cool [14:15] <cbm> Hermione needs to read the female version of ron's book [14:15] <bemused> I think it was probably just a remark that come out wrong [14:15] <SoonerGryffindor> right Bemused [14:15] <blue4t> 12 Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Wizards [14:15] <cbm> that is the one [14:15] <SoonerGryffindor> it was misinterpreted because of Ron's attitude [14:15] <Aislinn> right [14:15] <Eleanora> hmm [14:15] <bibs> yeah [14:15] <JaneMarple9> laugh that book seems it might be popular in the muggle world [14:16] <LillianJames> Ron's remark was a surprisingly astute one for him--i loved it! [14:16] <HeliumHead> well everybody was pretty stressed at that moment [14:16] <Witchchylde> Subtitled, The Fragile WIzarding Ego And How to Keep From Cracking It [14:16] <SoonerGryffindor> I mean, her body language should have told him all he needed to know [14:16] <Aislinn> hahahaha [14:16] <bibs> oh - im bleeding a gain [14:16] <Eleanora> lol [14:16] <blue4t> I like that, Witchchylde. [14:16] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is because she is usually so competant herself, that his proficiency surprised her--pleasantly [14:16] <Eleanora> throughout the book they show many signs of their closeness [14:16] <blue4t> I love it. [14:16] * leakylurker has joined #lounge [14:16] <cbm> but at the end, she does learn and give proper compliment [14:16] <SoonerGryffindor> notice that Hermione did not spend time with her arms around Harry's neck gazing into his eyes [14:16] <JaneMarple9> during the whole series, there's been subtle hints [14:17] <GranjoGranger> hi leaky [14:17] <leakylurker> hi, just lurking, carry on! [14:17] <ProngsPatronus> What did you make of Harry drinking Firewhiskey in this chapter? (Rooftop Garden)** [14:17] <Eleanora> it's nice that they both started to show it rather than hide it [14:17] <Witchchylde> From book one, even, when she meets him and he dismisses her, she snipes back about the dirt on his nose to prove that he didn't hurt her feelings when he really had done [14:17] <JaneMarple9> laugh [14:17] <kneazlegirl> ..he did? [14:17] <MrMcGonagall> Eh, he's old enough. [14:17] <SoonerGryffindor> I didnt see it as a big deal. They were toasting a fallen soldier [14:17] <bemused> another right of passage [14:17] <Aislinn> I would have, after the night he had just had. [14:17] <LillianJames> Another sign of his maturity [14:17] <bemused> rite [14:18] <GranjoGranger> He is of age. [14:18] <cbm> did Ginny drink it also, I thought soo [14:18] <SoonerGryffindor> I would hvae drank the whle bottle ala hagrid [14:18] <kneazlegirl> Oh, now I remember. [14:18] <ginginkat> His coming of age [14:18] <MrMcGonagall> You could hardly toast the memory of MadEye with pumpkin juice. [14:18] <kneazlegirl> There was nothing wrong with that, I thought. [14:18] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Mr M [14:18] <tinkertime> really Aislinn - make it a double for me! [14:18] <cbm> very true MrM [14:18] <Witchchylde> I figured it would happen, Dean and Seamus tried to get him to drink it after Ron's first victorious performance in Quidditch, didn't they? [14:18] <bibs> i could have done with some at that point since it was about 2 in the mourning [14:18] <blue4t> Harry's growing up. [14:19] <SoonerGryffindor> seriously. if I had not been intent on staying up all night, I would have had a drink after that chapter as well [14:19] <GranjoGranger> Yes DEan and Seamus were already sneaking it into the dorm. [14:19] <ProngsPatronus> Why did the others not believe Harry about his wand acting of its own accord? (Rooftop Garden)* [14:19] <Witchchylde> I can't really say that drinking is not a marker of growing up, since I sort of let myself be goaded into drinking at a cast party when I was sixteen... [14:19] <Eleanora> yeh its a great way to alert you and calm you [14:19] <cbm> I read this chapter in the early afternoon, I did not start until noon [14:19] <blue4t> It does sound unbelievable. [14:19] <MrMcGonagall> Well, it's so unheard of. [14:19] <HeliumHead> because it was unheard of [14:19] <bemused> Because it was magic they hadn't encountered before [14:19] <tinkertime> exactly MrMcG [14:19] <bibs> yeah my mc g [14:19] <JaneMarple9> it seemed too complicated [14:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I pretty much agree with everyone [14:19] <Witchchylde> Because it's not comfortable to consider that one's wand might have a consciousness, however remedial [14:19] <kneazlegirl> Yep. [14:20] <MrMcGonagall> It seems to defy normal principles of magic. [14:20] <cbm> It was strange, I was confused, I knew that DD would have known what happened [14:20] <JaneMarple9> they thought harry was just reacting on instinct [14:20] <blue4t> Harry's moving onto harder liquor--butterbeer then firewhiskey...it's a sign of growing up. [14:20] <Eleanora> it probably worried them so they just thought Harry was exaggerating [14:20] <GranjoGranger> I always believe Harry. [14:20] <ProngsPatronus> yes, I missed DD then [14:20] <MrMcGonagall> I really think it was Jo trying to underscore the importance of wands in DH. [14:20] <bibs> does any one else spontainiously start bleeding [14:20] <blue4t> scratch that word liquor and replace it with alcohol. [14:20] <Witchchylde> DD wouldn't know, but he'd have a strong suspicion, a guess as it were [14:20] <bemused> they were just trying to explain it in terms of what they knew [14:20] <tinkertime> it also setup the complexity of figuring out the DH vs. Horcrux through most of the rest of the book... [14:20] <LillianJames> I agree,cbm [14:21] <Witchchylde> From the nose, bibs? [14:21] <bibs> no the leg [14:21] <LillianJames> ooh, true, tinker [14:21] <GranjoGranger> SS gave everyone meade at the Dursleys in HBP. [14:21] <Witchchylde> Oh.... um, that's a new one on me. [14:21] <cbm> you mean at spinner's end? [14:21] <GranjoGranger> I mean Dumbledore gave it to them. [14:21] <Witchchylde> Well, tried to, the Dursleys wouldn't drink it [14:21] <blue4t> OK, butterbeer to meade to firewhiskey. [14:22] <Witchchylde> So he bounced it on their heads [14:22] <blue4t> sorry, it's just what I thought when I was reading it. [14:22] <GranjoGranger> No more dung bombs please. [14:22] <cbm> DD not snape, now I get it [14:22] <Witchchylde> No, Snape had that lovely elf made wine [14:22] <bibs> oh great now the arms starting to bleed [14:22] <bibs> what joy! [14:23] <tinkertime> hoping Winky didn't make elf-made wine... [14:23] <ProngsPatronus> Why did Lupin consider Harry with a pitying look when Harry declared he did not think any of them would sell him out to Voldemort? (Rooftop Garden) [14:23] <tinkertime> she'd have drank it all! [14:23] <MrMcGonagall> He thinks Harry is naive. [14:23] <HeliumHead> experience [14:23] <cbm> because of what happened to James [14:23] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that he was afriad he was going to see events repeat themselves [14:23] <Witchchylde> Because that was the kind of trusting attitude he believed got James killed [14:23] <LillianJames> thinking harry's just too naive [14:23] <Aislinn> He is remembering what trusting friends got James [14:23] <Eleanora> The fact about Harry trusting everybody [14:23] <MrMcGonagall> As though Harry doesn't grasp the seriousness of the war. [14:23] <JaneMarple9> it shows lupin how young harry is [14:23] <ascellaskat> because he's seen so much betrayal in his life [14:23] <tinkertime> Lupin is thinking of Pettigrew - his history wouldn't allow him to discount it happening again [14:23] <bemused> He's doubting if Harry will be able to cope with what lies ahead [14:23] <JaneMarple9> harry is too trustin [14:23] <Aislinn> I just loved that Harry reacted this way, though [14:23] <bibs> wormy! i rest my case [14:23] <SoonerGryffindor> Lupin has "been there, done that" [14:23] <bibs> it happens [14:23] <Eleanora> Because of what Pettigrew did to James, he's wondering if Harry may make a mistake in trusting everyone too [14:24] <kneazlegirl> Good point, he saw a parallel to James. [14:24] <GranjoGranger> He does think Harry is naive after what had happened to his parents. [14:24] <Aislinn> Voldemort's biggest weapon is trying to divide through mistrust, and Harry is having none of it. [14:24] <ProngsPatronus> to me, it shows how life-weary Lupin is [14:24] <bemused> Yes - I liked Harry's reaction [14:24] <kneazlegirl> But trust is one of the major themes of the series. [14:24] <Aislinn> yes, Prongs, it did show that. [14:24] <kneazlegirl> So it had to turn out that Harry was right. [14:24] <ProngsPatronus> all this must be a bad dream to Lupin [14:25] <bibs> seriously - my arms bleed ing now1 [14:25] <bibs> ! [14:25] <ProngsPatronus> it really shows how damaged he is inside, I think [14:25] <Aislinn> maybe you need to sign off and seek help, bibs [14:25] <bemused> Lupin has lost so many people by this time [14:25] <Witchchylde> Yes and believing in the goodness of others is important for Harry, to believe the rest of humanity is worth dying for to save them from VOldemort [14:25] <GranjoGranger> Did you splench yourself? Where is the dittany? [14:25] <bibs> brb runs up stairs to find plasters [14:25] <Eleanora> lol [14:26] <LillianJames> and Lupin doesn't have a lot of reason to believe in the good ness of others. [14:26] <Aislinn> yes, Witchchylde, it is vital that he continue to believe that [14:26] <Eleanora> he has definitely suffered [14:26] <MrMcGonagall> And ironically, Harry was right. Nobody in that room would have sold him out. [14:26] <Witchchylde> Maybe they're insect bites that have been knocked open somehow? [14:26] <bemused> that's true, Mr M [14:26] <MrMcGonagall> Lupin the skeptic. [14:26] <Aislinn> Lupin has been treated so badly that there is no way he could ever trust as Harry does. [14:27] <MrMcGonagall> Of course, Lupin has had to deal with being the object of suspicion almost his whole life. [14:27] <bibs> im out of plasters..........give me a break! [14:27] <Aislinn> he doesn't even trust himself. [14:27] <cbm> harry was right, I was glad to find that out in the end [14:27] <bemused> and he has worse ahead of him too [14:27] <kneazlegirl> I really wanted to see more of Lupin with the other werewolves. [14:27] <ProngsPatronus> which is his flaw in this book [14:27] <Witchchylde> Being in a segregated minority will do that to a body [14:27] <bibs> sorry [14:27] <ProngsPatronus> What did you think of Voldemort venting his spleen on Ollivander? Were you surprised to find Ollivander was still alive? Why didn’t Voldemort simply require Ollivander make him a new wand? (Rooftop Garden) [14:28] <GranjoGranger> Lupin has good reason to be skeptical, and I think examining issues from two opposing viewpoints is always a healthy thing. [14:28] <bibs> got it sooner [14:28] <bemused> Spleen venting is what LV does when he's crossed [14:28] <Aislinn> I wondered if Ollivander was the voice we had heard in chapter 1 [14:28] <SoonerGryffindor> thanks [14:28] <Witchchylde> I didn't think he was dead, but I also didn't think he was being held captive. I'd hoped he was in safe hiding somewhere [14:28] <blue4t> He didn't trust Ollivander anymore? [14:28] <JaneMarple9> i was wondering if it was ollivander was in malfoys cellar [14:28] <JaneMarple9> i feared for ollivander [14:28] <cbm> maybe voldemort is as picky with finding a proper wand as Harry was [14:28] <Eleanora> Yeh he trusted him the once, with believeing that all he needed was another wand to beat Harry [14:28] <kneazlegirl> I went "Oh, there's another prediction I got wrong" [14:28] <bibs> i thought olivander was evil [14:29] <MrMcGonagall> Having Ollivander make a new wand would have seemed a better solution. [14:29] <HeliumHead> I think that wand making is something that cannot be done well under duress [14:29] <GranjoGranger> I assumed it was Olivander. He has been imprisoned for over a year. [14:29] <Eleanora> he wanted to borrow more than gain a new one just in case [14:29] <bemused> Perhaps Ollivander didn't have the materials with him - and would LV trust a new wand from someone he's just been torturing? [14:29] <Witchchylde> I hoped he'd done a Slughorn [14:29] <cbm> he built one for wormtail [14:29] <MrMcGonagall> I think LV perhaps didn't trust Ollivander to make him a new wand. [14:29] <Aislinn> I don't understand why he didn't kill Ollivander when he was venting his spllen [14:29] <JaneMarple9> i always thought ollivander was being held by the other side [14:29] <ProngsPatronus> I was surprised that LV had left him alive for so long [14:29] <Aislinn> he was so quick to kill everyone else after that. [14:29] <ProngsPatronus> LV usually isn't that patient [14:29] <bibs> ditto [14:29] <SoonerGryffindor> I was very surpised to find Olivander prisoner of LV,. I was convinced the Order was hiding him [14:29] <Aislinn> I wonder if he kept him for wand making [14:29] <HeliumHead> i don't think that wormtails was that new [14:29] <cbm> maybe he realized the value of Ollivander [14:30] <bemused> It's awful, but I spose once you've killed someone you can't go on torturing them [14:30] <ProngsPatronus> me, too, Sooner-- [14:30] <JaneMarple9> it is a little surprising ollivander was keot alive [14:30] <Witchchylde> He probably wanted to flaunt the elder wand under his nose once he'd gotten his hands on it [14:30] <tinkertime> I thought Ollivander was in deep doo-doo from when he went missing in previous book - and this just made me more keyed on the wand importance in DH [14:30] beatlette has quit [Bye] [14:30] <LillianJames> Me, too, Prongs [14:30] <JaneMarple9> robably to make more wands fror death eaters [14:30] <GranjoGranger> He knew about wands and could be questioned. That fact saved his life. [14:30] <MrMcGonagall> I felt a little badly for old Ollie. [14:31] <bibs> me too [14:31] <HeliumHead> because he was one of the few experts in wandlore [14:31] <LillianJames> I agree, Granjo [14:31] <Eleanora> same [14:31] <JaneMarple9> yeah granjo, that what kept ollivander allived - he knew all about wands [14:31] <Eleanora> I guess with his great knowledge came at a great price on Voldermorts expense [14:31] <cbm> pg 494, us version, Ollivander says that he was forced to make wormtail's wand [14:31] <Witchchylde> I still wonder whether he wasn't the original Ollivander who opened the shop in 300 whatever bc [14:31] <Aislinn> I do too, Mr M - he was kept prisoner for a long time, and suffered a lot of torture, I think. [14:32] <bibs> mmmmmm [14:32] <cbm> so he was making wands [14:32] <ProngsPatronus> I have always liked Ollivander [14:32] <SoonerGryffindor> I am like Harry. I really never liked him all that much [14:32] <ProngsPatronus> I felt terribly for him, but at the same time was glad someone was with Luna... [14:32] <bibs> ditto sooner [14:32] <tinkertime> i too felt bad for him...but he always had that admiration for anyone good or evil who was powerful - sort of a Slughorn reference... [14:32] <SoonerGryffindor> although his apologies to Harry for telling LV anything did make me feel sorry for him [14:32] <LillianJames> he always did seem more interested in the wands than in good or evil results. [14:33] <bemused> oh yes... it was good that he and Luna had each other [14:33] <JaneMarple9> i quite liked ollivander [14:33] <Eleanora> He had no choise... he was under the cruciatus curse [14:33] <bibs> yeah it was all great power to him [14:33] <Aislinn> I think he was just completely fascinated by his craft [14:33] <Eleanora> yet he still remained a steady mind [14:33] <GranjoGranger> Actually he loved the wands and judged wizards by their wands. [14:33] <Eleanora> to make wands and such [14:33] <ProngsPatronus> he was the supreme craftsman, and had that sort of tunnel vision, I think [14:33] <bibs> no distintion between good or bad [14:33] <Aislinn> and from what we saw, wandlore is a deep and mysterious craft to be fascinated with. [14:33] <JaneMarple9> he seemed a approachable character - he knew a lot of magic [14:34] <ProngsPatronus> OK, Folks--we are moving on to the next chapter [14:34] <tinkertime> but a bit addicted to power for power's sake... [14:34] <HeliumHead> agreed prongs [14:34] <Eleanora> Although, he didn't know about the Elder Wand [14:34] <ProngsPatronus> How did the steps Hermione and Ron took to protect their families solidify Harry’s trust and willingness to allow them to help him with his task? (Dragon’s Den) [14:34] <LillianJames> yeah, an interesting guy to chat with! [14:34] <Aislinn> I was blown away by the preparations [14:34] <Witchchylde> They seemed even more prepared than he did [14:34] <JaneMarple9> the way hermione modified her parents memory [14:34] <Eleanora> I mena, making your parents not know who you are.... that takes guts [14:34] * blue4t has quit [Ping timeout] [14:34] <bibs> that made me sad [14:34] <Aislinn> I think it really let him know that it wasn't an impulsive decision on their parts [14:34] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione and Ron are obviously taking this extremely seriously. [14:34] <cbm> It made him realize that they knew the what they were getting into [14:34] <bemused> I think it made him realise how seriously they took it - and how they accepted the implications in full [14:34] <JaneMarple9> that was impressive magic! [14:34] <SoonerGryffindor> the lengths that Hermione was willing to go to amazed me [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> that was quite a sacrifice for her [14:35] <JaneMarple9> even ron planned ahead [14:35] <LillianJames> He knew they were prepared and no use arguing it any further. [14:35] <Witchchylde> And putting a ghoul in your bed to pretend to be you? [14:35] <Witchchylde> Creative, if a bit gross [14:35] <JaneMarple9> and spattergroit was a nod to book 5 - st mungos laugh [14:35] <Aislinn> yes, that was clever. [14:35] <SoonerGryffindor> that is what I was thinking as well Jane [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> I think it was reassuring for harry that he saw their committment [14:35] <GranjoGranger> He was deeply impressed by the thouroughness and care they had taken. They were determined to go. [14:35] <ginginkat> They showed their commitment to the task [14:35] <bibs> i cried for ages so i new how sad it was [14:35] <Aislinn> and to Harry, ginginkat [14:35] <Eleanora> Definitely friends who would stand by him [14:35] <SoonerGryffindor> I cant even imagine how hard it must have been for Hermione to have done that to her parents [14:36] <kneazlegirl> I'm really glad Hermione survived to restore her parents' memories. [14:36] <Eleanora> Yeah [14:36] <ginginkat> sorry and a commitment to Harry [14:36] <Aislinn> it was heartbreaking to think of it [14:36] <Eleanora> she's a tough girl [14:36] <GranjoGranger> me too [14:36] <SoonerGryffindor> could you really wipe out your own existence to your parents? [14:36] <JaneMarple9> we'd heard about the ghoul in the attic a few times through the series, and he finally gets his role to play [14:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont know if I would be able to do that [14:36] <Eleanora> well she's a very skilled witch [14:36] <bibs> and how they were so dedicated to them [14:36] <bibs> him [14:36] <Eleanora> who knows how well she did it [14:36] <GranjoGranger> to save them, yes [14:36] <bibs> harry [14:36] <kneazlegirl> That would be incredibly hard, emotionally. [14:36] <cbm> I like what she said about how the decision to go with harry had really been made years ago [14:36] <Aislinn> it would be [14:36] <SoonerGryffindor> it would be very, very hard [14:36] <Eleanora> but it was enough to make them feel like all was well [14:37] <SoonerGryffindor> it was very selfless [14:37] <bemused> Well, it had obviously taken its toll on her [14:37] <MrMcGonagall> As hard as it was for her, I think this was a classic kind of Hermione decision. [14:37] <ProngsPatronus> and extremely brave--sometimes, Hermy doesn't know her own shtrength when it comes to magic [14:37] <Aislinn> quite logical, and well thought out, yes Mr M [14:37] <LillianJames> Yes, cbm that made me tear up [14:37] <bemused> agree, Mr M [14:37] <bibs> she rocks [14:37] * gapeach1004 has joined #lounge [14:37] <kneazlegirl> Why do you think she didn't just put them under fidelius? [14:37] <Eleanora> because if she died [14:37] <SoonerGryffindor> because this way was safer [14:37] <Eleanora> then it would be broken [14:37] <GranjoGranger> too risky. [14:38] <cbm> because they would have still had to leave thee house to work [14:38] <Eleanora> and her parents would then be in danger [14:38] <ProngsPatronus> Why is Harry feeling that he is giving Mrs. Weasley enormous amounts of "inconvenience and pain"? (Dragon’s Den) [14:38] <Aislinn> does she know the Fidelius charm? [14:38] <LillianJames> less painful for them if she died. [14:38] <kneazlegirl> True, good points. [14:38] <bemused> think of the anxiety they would have suffered... and then, if she had died [14:38] <SoonerGryffindor> and she did not want them to suffer. However, I am not entirely sure that decision was hers to make [14:38] <Aislinn> I got the impression not many knew how to cast it. [14:38] <Witchchylde> Except if she shared the secret with Harry and Ron, they'd be her secret keepers after she died [14:38] <bibs> im going to have to go now [14:38] <Aislinn> yes, her way was the kindest to her parents, bemused. [14:38] <Eleanora> bye bibs [14:38] <bibs> bye [14:38] <cbm> get better bibs [14:38] <SoonerGryffindor> well to be honest... he was [14:38] <Aislinn> because he was. [14:39] <bibs> bye all [14:39] <bemused> Well, Harry is giving Molly inconvenience and pain - but she accepts it [14:39] <cbm> He really was [14:39] * bibs has quit [Bye] [14:39] <JaneMarple9> he knew the weasley family had sarcificed a lot, and put protection around the Burrow [14:39] <Eleanora> Mrs Weasley has been so good to her- he realises what hes doing [14:39] <Eleanora> and wants to stop it [14:39] <GranjoGranger> Molly loves him and does not like to feel that he could hurt her in any way. [14:39] <Aislinn> He did not for one minute take for granted the sacrifice that family was making for him. [14:39] <MrMcGonagall> Having Harry around does put a crimp in one's freedom from security measures and observation. [14:39] <cbm> Molly accepts it because she considers harry one of the family [14:39] <Eleanora> it's like Voldermort said - Harry's biggest flaw is watching other people going down for him [14:40] <bemused> It's typical of Harry that he recognises that [14:40] <Eleanora> but Molly copes [14:40] * blue4t has joined #lounge [14:40] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, it says a lot about the Weasleys that not one of them ever grumbles about the security measure under which they must live. [14:40] <Witchchylde> Inconvenience because of the aggravation of being faced daily with the inevitability of Ron laving with him, and pain because he knows she's desperately afraid of her family members dying and here he is leading her youngest son into possibly certainb death [14:40] <kneazlegirl> It's not like it was Harry's fault in any way, though. [14:40] * Eleanora has quit [Bye] [14:40] * blue4t has quit [Bye] [14:40] <tinkertime> Yep = but Molly gets to vent ALL of her frustrations at the end of the book! [14:40] <LillianJames> Harry would still feel it was his fault. [14:40] * gapeach1004 has quit [Bye] [14:40] <bemused> It's not his fault, but the consequence is the same [14:40] <GranjoGranger> He just isn't used to so much familial concern. [14:40] * blue4t has joined #lounge [14:41] <blue4t> I hate my internet. anyway... [14:41] <GranjoGranger> Go Molly!! [14:41] <Witchchylde> Give it up for Molly Weasley [14:42] <SoonerGryffindor> its just another way in which we see Harry;s surrogate family being there for him [14:42] <ProngsPatronus> Harry ghosted through the Dursley home--here, he is treated as someone who matters--I think that Harry is not used to that, really [14:42] <cbm> very true prongs, harry does not understand how real parents act [14:42] <Witchchylde> It astonished him in year 2, that everyone around him in the Burrow 'actually seemed to like him'. [14:43] <ProngsPatronus> Of what significance (if any) is it that Harry and Ginny both have the exact same eye color as their mother's? (Dragon’s Den) [14:43] <GranjoGranger> Feelings are a lot more complicated where mutual love is present. [14:43] <SoonerGryffindor> I loved finding out about this [14:43] <bemused> Harry's eyes matching Lily's is of Huge significance [14:43] <cbm> I think that there is significance in Harry's case, but not in Ginnys [14:43] <SoonerGryffindor> Just another little clue that Harry and Ginny are compatible [14:43] <HeliumHead> agreed cbm [14:43] <cbm> If you listen to the Jim [14:43] <bemused> Ginny's and Molly's suddenly matters here - but hasn't done [14:43] <LillianJames> Ginny and Molly are kindred spirits--lots of hidden strength [14:44] <Aislinn> it felt like a way to connect Harry to the whole family even more [14:44] <GranjoGranger> Their personalities are a lot like their mothers' are. [14:44] <ProngsPatronus> yes--that is what I thought, too, Sooner [14:44] <Aislinn> He loves Molly as a mother just like he loves Ginny as a partner [14:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I love Harry's obseravtion. It foreshadows how Snape reacts to Lily's eyes in Harry [14:44] <MrMcGonagall> Not all that unusual, I would think. Makes sense from the genetic point of view. [14:44] <cbm> If you listen to the Jim Dale version of CoS, Ginny has bright green eyes, I about wrecked when I heard it [14:44] <SoonerGryffindor> really? [14:44] <ProngsPatronus> but harry is not into genetics, Mr. M [14:44] <cbm> yep [14:44] * readypc has joined #lounge [14:45] <SoonerGryffindor> I've never picked up on that. The book says she has brown eyes [14:45] <cbm> I got home and ran to the book [14:45] <Aislinn> does the book say green or brown? [14:45] <cbm> brown in the book [14:45] <JaneMarple9> i'm sure she had brown eyes in the stephen fry recordings [14:45] <Aislinn> oh dear [14:45] <LillianJames> Harry knows how much he was given by his mother--to see that connection in Ginny is important to him. [14:45] <JaneMarple9> and in the book too [14:45] <Witchchylde> Brown, in book 2 he sees a pair of bright brown eyes peeking out at him as he and ROn go up to Ron's room [14:46] <ProngsPatronus> is it different in Bloomsbury vs. Scholastic? [14:46] <GranjoGranger> another question for Jo [14:46] * readypc has quit [Bye] [14:46] <LillianJames> Brown in scholastic [14:46] <cbm> No, it is only green in the jim dale recording [14:46] <HeliumHead> no, sounds more like a misreading on Dale's part [14:46] <bemused> It was probably just a mistake int he reading that they didn't pick up on [14:46] <cbm> He misread it and noone caught it [14:46] <cbm> sorry to bring it up [14:47] <SoonerGryffindor> np [14:47] <ProngsPatronus> Do you think Harry purposly slipped his real reason for going out on Dumbledore's mission to Ginny? ... Was it a Freudian slip? Do you feel this made any difference in Ginny's behavior at the Burrow or during the course of the book? (Dragon’s Den) [14:47] <blue4t> Those who only listen to the Jim Dale audibooks now envision their Ginny with green eyes. [14:47] * leakylurker has quit [Bye] [14:47] <cbm> I think it was a slip [14:47] <Aislinn> I think that Ginny really knew anyway [14:47] <HeliumHead> I think it is because he trusts her [14:47] <Aislinn> and I agree it was a slip [14:48] <MrMcGonagall> I think Ginny had some idea of it in the back of her mind, anyway [14:48] <bemused> I'm sure she sensed it [14:48] <cbm> she distracted him by just being there [14:48] <Aislinn> yes, HeliumHead, he was talking in an unguarded way to her [14:48] <cbm> so his guard was down [14:48] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont think it was a Freudian slip. The problem is that Harry doesnt think straight when Ginny is around sometimes [14:48] <HeliumHead> exactly [14:48] <blue4t> I was going to say that, Sooner. [14:48] <tinkertime> agree w/ sooner [14:48] <bemused> after all, what other mission could he be on at that time that would be so important [14:48] <Witchchylde> Dumbledore said to tell only those he could trust absolutely and either consciously or subconsciously, Ginny is that [14:48] <Aislinn> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. [14:49] <MrMcGonagall> Like he'd be on any other kind of mission besides destroying LV? Yes, Ginny, I'm going on a mission to find Crumple-Horned Snorkacks. [14:49] <HeliumHead> lol [14:49] <tinkertime> LOL MrMcG! [14:49] <Aislinn> hahahaha [14:49] <LillianJames> This is only my 2nd try at this--glad I could keep up this time--Great chat! [14:49] <SoonerGryffindor> I think this is another excellent clue that harry is totally himself with GInny even in times such as this. He completely lets down his guard [14:49] <SoonerGryffindor> sigh Mr M...... [14:49] <GranjoGranger> I remember the feeling well. [14:50] <JaneMarple9> ginny and harry seem to grow closer even though they're not together any more [14:50] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is important because, up to now, Harry has been guided by others [14:50] <tinkertime> yep - Ginny addles Harry's brains! That's a sure sign of true love! [14:50] <GranjoGranger> Not together my foot! [14:50] <Witchchylde> He's twitterpated [14:50] <ProngsPatronus> this is a major decision on his part to tell "someone he trusts" about the Horcrux [14:50] <HeliumHead> he doesn't go that far prongs [14:51] <GranjoGranger> That is only a phrase to keep Harry happy [14:51] * Amontillada has joined #lounge [14:51] <JaneMarple9> smile [14:51] <cbm> lilian, it gets easier over time [14:51] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione gave us some giant size clues about Horcruxes, their make-up and how to destroy them. How important will this information be to Harry? To the readers? (Dragon’s Den) [14:52] <blue4t> Very important. [14:52] <SoonerGryffindor> so very important [14:52] <kneazlegirl> Uh... very? [14:52] <LillianJames> Thanks for the encouragment! [14:52] <bemused> Vital, I'd say [14:52] <HeliumHead> vitally [14:52] <Aislinn> I've been waiting for this information since we learned of the Horcruxes [14:52] <MrMcGonagall> I rather wish we'd had a few more details at this point in the story. [14:52] <SoonerGryffindor> yet again, Hermione is the only one with a clue [14:52] <cbm> I thought that it was information that DD should have given Harry [14:52] <tinkertime> Hermoine comes through again - who else could possible figure that out! [14:52] <Amontillada> Very important, but the trick will be figuring out which of them are vital and which are incidental [14:52] <GranjoGranger> Ginny loves him so much that she is willing to do anything that will help him including letting him go. [14:52] <Aislinn> And for a moment I thought that we were getting foreshadowing, when Hermione talked about re-combining a soul through remorse. [14:52] <cbm> I like how the remorse part comes out in the final duel [14:52] <SoonerGryffindor> Go figure, Hermione goes to a book for information [14:52] <Witchchylde> The fact that a soul is independent of the body while a Horcrux is wholly dependent on its vessel? Absolutely vital [14:53] <kneazlegirl> It still seems ridiculous to me that she could just Accio the horcrux books. [14:53] <bemused> yes, Aislinn - that was what made me sit up and take notice [14:53] <JaneMarple9> i think dumbledore purposely left that horcrux book somewhere where hermione could accio it [14:53] <kneazlegirl> Yes, he must have. [14:53] <Aislinn> I wondered if we were really going to see LV try for remorse, as much of a change as that would have been. [14:53] <cbm> I would not be surprised if Hermione was the only one who could accio the books [14:53] <kneazlegirl> But... so could anyone else, no? [14:53] * UKray has joined #lounge [14:53] <blue4t> Maybe no one else thought them of importance? [14:53] <Aislinn> why would anyone else know to try? [14:53] <JaneMarple9> true [14:53] <LillianJames> DD couldn't tell him everything--and he knew hermione [14:53] <cbm> He may have protected them against anyone else [14:53] <GranjoGranger> DD left them for her. [14:54] <JaneMarple9> not many people knew what horcruxes were [14:54] <ProngsPatronus> I think it was a brilliant deduction on her part [14:54] <MrMcGonagall> Nobody else would ever have thought to do it. [14:54] <ProngsPatronus> savvy girl, that hermione [14:54] <LillianJames> I mean hermione's nature. [14:54] <JaneMarple9> except for the trio ... oh yeah, and volide and slughorn smile [14:54] <GranjoGranger> It was natural for her. [14:54] <Witchchylde> I think this bit about rejoining soul pieces together is a major factor in why Voldemort was in such agony when he was inside Harry's mind in OotP [14:54] <MrMcGonagall> How many people would have suspected DD of keeping banned books in his office. LOL [14:54] <Witchchylde> How the process is so agonizing it could destroy you? [14:54] <Witchchylde> I would suspect him. [14:54] <bemused> I think it was telling us what Snape was going through in 'the Flight of the Prince' [14:55] <LillianJames> interesting thought Witchchylde. [14:55] <kneazlegirl> That part was really important. [14:55] <kneazlegirl> And wow, you may be right, bemused. [14:55] <ProngsPatronus> The scar mentioned in this chapter: I must not tell lies. Secrets and lies persist…and blur. Which lies are justified?(Cloudpic) [14:56] <kneazlegirl> But that was important because it gave Voldemort a chance, even if he didn't take it. [14:56] <cbm> but Snape soul is nowhere near as damaged as Voldemorts [14:56] <Aislinn> this is such a difficult question. [14:56] * UKray has quit [Bye] [14:56] * Amontillada_ has joined #lounge [14:56] <bemused> oh no, cbm, but the AK must have damaged it [14:56] <GranjoGranger> Well he banned them so where else would he keep the books? [14:56] <Aislinn> I think lies are the source of so much pain and problem, generally. [14:56] <SoonerGryffindor> well, the secrets from the rest of the order are necessart [14:56] <blue4t> yes [14:56] <tinkertime> it's like a tiger chasing its tail - secrets beget lies which casue more secrets and more lies.... [14:56] <cbm> agreed bemused, but it was still in one piece [14:56] <Witchchylde> I'm sure in his private moments he suffered intense remorse though, so Snape's soul was surely repaired [14:56] <SoonerGryffindor> none of them can tell anybody at the burrow what they are up to [14:57] <bemused> true Aislinn... [14:57] <bemused> it's really something you can't make rules about - it depends on the situation [14:57] <ProngsPatronus> I think that there are too many lies and omissions [14:57] <HeliumHead> yes, but harry doesn't acually lie to keep the secrets he has been entrusted with [14:57] <Aislinn> would their mission have been so compromised, if Order members had known what they were doing? [14:57] <ProngsPatronus> they hinder Harry in the end, I think [14:57] <Aislinn> true, he doesn't lie - he tells people right out that he will not tell them. [14:58] <SoonerGryffindor> can you imagine Molly's reaction had they told her the complete truth? she would have found a way to keep them from leaving [14:58] <bemused> it might have been if someone had got it out of one of the Order members [14:58] <HeliumHead> i think that molly would have chained him in the kitchen [14:58] <cbm> But if Harry knew everything, I do not think he would have made it to the end [14:58] <SoonerGryffindor> agreed [14:58] <Aislinn> she might have tried even harder, yes [14:58] <MrMcGonagall> I think lies are more easily justified when one's inquisitor doesn't have a right to the information. [14:58] <Aislinn> I disagree, cbm [14:58] <blue4t> Depending upon how the lie is told. [14:58] <SoonerGryffindor> I also do believe that one sometimes has to keep secrets for "the greater good" [14:58] <ProngsPatronus> I think lies get justified in hindsight [14:58] <Aislinn> but do you have to lie, Mr M, or just refuse to tell. [14:58] <ProngsPatronus> but I think Harry would have gone to the end, regardless [14:58] <Amontillada_> And Harry can't be sure that the Order members would understand and accept his taking on this task [14:59] <tinkertime> they are sort of a necessary evil - you cannot always tell the truth - if a DE asked - where is Harry and you knew - you wouldn't tell him just cause you thought it bad to lie [14:59] <Witchchylde> Then again that could have developed into a nother situation like Neville trying to stop the trio from going out after the thief in Sorcerer's Stone [14:59] <SoonerGryffindor> I like how Harry handles it. He does not lie, he is honest and says he will not tell [14:59] <LillianJames> Dn't know that lies are any more justified, but certainly secrets are MrM [14:59] <Witchchylde> Having to do some sort of magic to stop Molly stopping them leaving [14:59] <blue4t> There's always the point about if they don't know others like Voldemort can't get it out of them. [14:59] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Scrimgeour will lie to the DEs when he says that he doesn't know where Harry is being kept. [14:59] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that a lie to prevent something undeniably evil is justified [14:59] <Amontillada_> And Harry openly keeps his secrets without lying about them, LillianJames [14:59] <bemused> Some characters were put in positions where they had to lie.... [14:59] <ProngsPatronus> well, one can be judicious about a confidant [15:00] <Aislinn> One of the reasons that Harry struggles so much with Dumbledore in this book is because he felt that DD had lied to him, or kept too many secrets [15:00] <bemused> Lupin among the werewolves... Snape among the DEs [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> And I think Scrimgeour was entirely justified. [15:00] <GranjoGranger> If you want something kept secret, you don't talk about it. [15:00] <ProngsPatronus> yes--I struggled with it, too [15:00] <kneazlegirl> DD basically DID lie to him. [15:00] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it was the secrets mostly Aislinn [15:00] <Aislinn> I think Scrimgeour could have refused to tell, without lying. [15:00] <JaneMarple9> ((((Boothers)))))) take care [15:00] * Amontillada has quit [Bye] [15:00] <bemused> and weren't we all glad that Griphook lied about the sword [15:00] <cbm> ron saying he was Stan Shupike was a lie, but it was justified, I think it just depends on where you are [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> How did Dumbledore lie? He actually simply withheld information. [15:00] <bemused> and Narcissa lied about Harry being dead [15:00] * JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [15:00] <SoonerGryffindor> agree Mr M, Scrimgeeour's lie was justified [15:00] <blue4t> yes, bemused and cbm [15:00] <LillianJames> Me too prongs and Aislinn [15:00] <kneazlegirl> He told Harry what he thought all the horcruxes were. [15:01] <Aislinn> yes, bemused, Narcissa's lie was a vital one. [15:01] <kneazlegirl> And yet didn't tell him that he was one. [15:01] <ProngsPatronus> except for Harry-Harry wasn't on that list [15:01] <tinkertime> It certainly is a moral dilemma - and it is never an easy thing - it seems the intention is more important [15:01] <cbm> I think when dealing with evil it is on a case by case basis whether a lie is justified [15:01] <ProngsPatronus> What did you think of Molly's tactics in trying to delay the Trio's departure from the Burrow? (HealerOne) [15:01] <tinkertime> Griphook also lied - about the sword... [15:01] <blue4t> That's not a lie. That's withholding information. A lie would've been if he'd said "Harry, you are not a Horcrux." [15:01] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how Molly did this [15:01] <blue4t> Molly's acting like a mother. [15:01] <SoonerGryffindor> she is so sneaky [15:01] <Witchchylde> But lame and sure to fail [15:01] <bemused> I think what Molly tried to do was entirely human and understandable [15:01] <GranjoGranger> She was just plain funny. [15:02] <Aislinn> she was really funny [15:02] <ascellaskat> it makes you realize how much she cares about all of them as if they were her children [15:02] <kneazlegirl> Not necessarily, you can lie without directly stating the opposite is true. [15:02] <Aislinn> it was such a Mom thing to do [15:02] <cbm> I liked it [15:02] <bemused> she knew he couldn't stop them really, but she had to have a go! [15:02] <bemused> she [15:02] <tinkertime> she was trying to protect the kids - but it would have driven me crazy! [15:02] <MrMcGonagall> Ah, maternal interference. [15:02] <GranjoGranger> exacrtly, Bemused [15:02] <cbm> But Hermione was able the to do what was needed anyway [15:02] <SoonerGryffindor> her busting in and getting upset with them was so funny [15:02] <blue4t> She tried to keep apart and yet they got to gether anyway. [15:03] <Witchchylde> Because you just can't thwart Destiny [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> poor Molly [15:03] <GranjoGranger> Isn't that what mothers are for? [15:03] <Aislinn> yes it is, Granjo [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> after george and the ear, I can imagine her fears are running rampany [15:03] <MrMcGonagall> Molly is pretty skillful at it. She even uses the guilt trip when necessary. [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> rampant [15:03] * tinkertime has quit [Bye] [15:03] <bemused> ooops - must go - bye everyone! [15:03] <LillianJames> and in the end she got her chance to be effective! [15:03] <Aislinn> guilt is a mother's prime weapon, Mr M [15:03] <SoonerGryffindor> I loved the way she cornered harry that first morning [15:03] <Aislinn> bye bemused [15:03] * bemused has quit [Bye] [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> One more question: [15:03] <cbm> lol aislinn [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> During this chapter, Harry realizes that he’s not prepared for the horcrux hunt. Could he have better prepared for the task? If so, how? (Kwikspell) [15:04] <blue4t> I don't know if he could be more prepared. [15:04] <LillianJames> sure, but it would have spoiled the story!! [15:04] <Witchchylde> Maybe overpreparing would have gotten in his way [15:04] <cbm> he could only have been better repared if DD had made him better prepared [15:04] <blue4t> yes, cbm [15:04] <kneazlegirl> He could have studied a bit more, I guess. [15:04] <blue4t> Studied what? [15:04] <kneazlegirl> But that wasn't really in his character. [15:04] <Witchchylde> Like studying so hard for a test that when the test comes, you freeze [15:04] <kneazlegirl> Just general spells. [15:04] <kneazlegirl> Things like what Hermione knew. [15:04] <blue4t> Oh [15:05] <Aislinn> I don't think there was much he could have done, other than what Hermione did to prepare them for the journey. [15:05] <MrMcGonagall> I'm not sure how much more he could have physically prepared, but I think having some sort of plan in his head would have been good. Thank goodness Hermione had a plan. LOL [15:05] <LillianJames> he had hermione for the study part--his instincts and character were his strength [15:05] <Aislinn> yes, can you see him and Ron out there, trying to survive? [15:05] <SoonerGryffindor> I was amazed at Harry's complete lack of planning to be honest [15:05] <Amontillada_> He could point to many spells he should have learned to cast, more he should have read about history, and the like--more than one student could possible have taken on [15:05] <Aislinn> they would have lasted 3 days. [15:05] <GranjoGranger> I don't know what he could have done in his one month at the Dursleys except think it through, but he did not really have enough information. [15:05] <Witchchylde> Brilliant with the TARDIS purse [15:05] <HeliumHead> he was on a scavenger hunt where you don't know what you were actually looking for, how does one prepare for that [15:05] <Aislinn> I want that purse! [15:05] <ProngsPatronus> I think that everything just happened so fast [15:05] <kneazlegirl> Still, he couldn't know for sure that Hermione would always be right next to him with a brilliant plan. [15:05] <SoonerGryffindor> I think his plan was to go to Godric's Hollow and then see whre instinct took him [15:05] <MrMcGonagall> Who would have cooked for Ron and Harry without Hermione! ROFL [15:06] <Aislinn> yes, sooner, I think that was his plan [15:06] <cbm> Harry knows how to cook [15:06] <blue4t> Such a Ron thing to say, MrM. ;) [15:06] <GranjoGranger> He could have read Hogwarts a History. [15:06] * ginginkat has quit [Bye] [15:06] <Witchchylde> And then Hermione heard and was dead set against it. [15:06] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [15:06] <LillianJames> his lack of knowing how to prepare was pretty typical--remember the tasks in GoF [15:06] <kneazlegirl> Also, I sort of feel like he should have asked for lessons on Healing. [15:06] <ProngsPatronus> he might have gotten to talk with the real Bathilda if he had gone then... [15:06] <kneazlegirl> Especially after the Sectumsempra incident. [15:06] <cbm> true prongs [15:06] * Puzzlepiece has joined #lounge [15:06] <SoonerGryffindor> thank goodness they had Hermione [15:07] <Amontillada_> He might have had 20/20 hindsight, but how could he have predicted what he needed in advance? [15:07] <Witchchylde> Well I don't know, Rita'd already gotten to her with the Veritaserum [15:07] <kneazlegirl> He couldn't even heal a cut on his finger. [15:07] <ProngsPatronus> harry's instincts are usually on the money [15:07] <MrMcGonagall> I think we see the trio's strengths coming together. Wonder Trio powers, activate! [15:07] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [15:07] <LillianJames> exactly MrM [15:07] <ascellaskat> lol [15:07] <cbm> got to go, bye [15:07] <Amontillada_> As Dumbledore pointed out in the first book, Harry-Ron-Hermione together are so much stronger than three separate individuals This post has been edited by Aislinn: Aug 25 2007, 03:21 PM

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