Reading Group Chat, Dobby, House-elves and Their Magic |
  Jul 1 2006, 02:50 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Fortescue's Spoon Polisher  Posts: 3,628 Joined: 6:04pm November 6, 2005   |
[18:02] *** LJ has joined #lounge
[18:02] *** Topic is: Dobby, House-Elves and Their Magic [18:02] <dumbleydore18> hello [18:02] <dumbleydore18> i am finally in! [18:02] <LJ> Hi [18:02] *** sherbert_lemon123 has joined #lounge [18:03] <dumbleydore18> so when do we actually start discussing Dobby, House-Elves, and Their Magic? [18:03] *** sherbert_lemon123 has quit [Bye] [18:03] <Whisperwing> Who can remember the name of Hepzibah Smith's house elf? [18:03] <Whisperwing> I know, I'll open a tab for the Lexicon. [18:03] <dumbleydore18> i have no idea the name [18:03] *** DorisTLC has joined #lounge [18:03] <LJ> In about 15 mins, we'll give people a chance to come in and get settled first [18:04] <dumbleydore18> ok LJ [18:04] <Whisperwing> I love Mozilla [18:04] <LJ> me too [18:04] *** Val_Halla has joined #lounge [18:04] <dumbleydore18> how do you change your text color in here? [18:04] <DorisTLC> Look at the little black arrows to the right of where you are typing [18:05] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge [18:05] <Whisperwing> Aha, it was Hokey! [18:05] <dumbleydore18> I like green [18:05] <Whisperwing> Now I have the name of every named house elf in the series in my mind to ponder on until the official discussion starts! [18:05] <DorisTLC> How is everyone this morning - it is rather stormy here in Texas [18:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Rainy/cloudy here in Toronto too [18:06] <dumbleydore18> it's nice and sunny in the states [18:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> it's great! [18:06] <dumbleydore18> well, in Oregon [18:06] <Whisperwing> Oh dear -- we had bad storms Wednesday and Thursday here -- Binghamtom was disaster-level flooded. [18:06] <Val_Halla> Sunny and beautiful in Ohio [18:06] <dumbleydore18> eek! [18:06] <Whisperwing> WIsh it would rain in the Southwest -- don't wand those brushfires wreaking havoc on Lumos! [18:07] <Whisperwing> want, don't want^ [18:07] <dumbleydore18> we need the rain in Oregon, all our plants are dieing [18:08] <Whisperwing> Hm, all the mention poor old Hokey gets is being fingered for the death of her mistress. [18:09] <DorisTLC> Oh Brushfires - that is terrible. We are getting our fill of our summer rain storms - just hoping the hurricanes stay away [18:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yike [18:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hurricanes are nasty stuff [18:10] <LJ> It's really hot here [18:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> We don't get them much in upper Cda but where I'm from they're bad [18:10] <dumbleydore18> whisperwing what's the name of hepzibah's house-elf? [18:10] <DorisTLC> I grew up with them - but it's the constant on-slaught of last year I can't stand. [18:11] <Whisperwing> Ah, 1981, that would make Harry actually five years older than my daughter., [18:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> transport trucks upended on highways [18:11] <Whisperwing> It's Hokey. [18:11] <dumbleydore18> ok [18:11] <Whisperwing> Hokey's okey dokey? [18:11] * Whisperwing grins [18:11] <dumbleydore18> lol [18:11] <DorisTLC> I like that name - very cute! [18:11] <dumbleydore18> I wonder what Hokey means [18:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hokey? something is hokey - not right? [18:12] <Whisperwing> Aw man -- I gotta miss out on the chat -- being called away right now. And I was really looking forward to this one! [18:12] * Whisperwing sniffles. [18:12] <DorisTLC> Hokey is a slang tern here for the way someone from the backwoods would act. [18:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol - yep - you're right D [18:12] <DorisTLC> come back as soon as you can [18:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I was trying to place it [18:13] <Whisperwing> Hokey is probably a hint that she was going to end up being jailed on false charges. [18:13] <DorisTLC> Good point [18:13] <dumbleydore18> I found a very interesting thing on the name Kreacher [18:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - DD [18:13] <Whisperwing> Hokey, hokum, hocus pocus, they all are part of the same concept. [18:13] <DorisTLC> In the UK it could have a totally different meaning - [18:13] <DorisTLC> I like the tie-into Hocus Pocus - very cool [18:14] *** Moriah has joined #lounge [18:14] <LJ> Hey Moriah [18:14] <Whisperwing> I always thought something hokey was something patently false, like a magic trick that was easy to see through. A poorly executed deception. [18:15] *** Evreka has joined #lounge [18:15] <Evreka> hallo [18:15] <Moriah> Hi smile [18:15] <DorisTLC> that is a good definition [18:15] <LJ> Hi [18:15] <DorisTLC> hi everka [18:15] <Evreka> What time is it in EST? [18:15] <Whisperwing> and now, I depart, heavy of heart, thought I'd be here, now I go with a tear. [18:15] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> it's 1:15p [18:15] <Whisperwing> one pm [18:15] <Whisperwing> ish [18:15] <Evreka> OK, thanks smile [18:15] * Whisperwing disappears [18:16] <dumbleydore18> Kreacher=Krikor (armanian)=Gregory; This is what Gregory means: From the Latin Gregorius, which was from the late Greek name Γρηγοριος (Gregorios), which was derived from γρηγορος (gregoros) meaning "watchful, alert". This was the name of several saints including three Fathers of the Church: Saint Gregory Thaumaturgus (3rd century), Saint Gregory of Nyssa, and Saint Gregory of Nazianzus (both 4th century). This [18:16] <LJ> bye [18:16] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [18:16] *** Whisperwing has quit [Bye] [18:16] <dumbleydore18> This describe Kreacher, watchful and alert [18:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Interesting the Nyssa [18:16] <Evreka> I am affraid I think Kreacher's name is a play on creature though [18:16] *** GregoryTheSmarmy has joined #lounge [18:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> wonder if it ties in with Narcissa somehow [18:17] <Evreka> Hi, sooner! [18:17] <SoonerGryffindor> sorry I got here late folks...hi all [18:17] <dumbleydore18> hi [18:17] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi S/G [18:17] <LJ> Hi [18:17] <Moriah> I think so too, Ginny. But that Gregory connection will make Gregorya laugh... [18:17] <SoonerGryffindor> yea! another patio reunion...lol [18:17] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol [18:17] <dumbleydore18> lol [18:17] <Evreka> LOL [18:17] <SoonerGryffindor> what was the last question? [18:17] <dumbleydore18> I love house-elves [18:17] <GregoryTheSmarmy> Hey all... [18:17] <Evreka> Hi [18:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> house elves ROCK! [18:18] <Evreka> Not all...  [18:18] <dumbleydore18> I want one, but not for cleaning, as a friend [18:18] <SoonerGryffindor> kreacher I could do without [18:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol - true - but K is a product of his environment [18:18] <Evreka> Apparently not all smilies work [18:18] <GregoryTheSmarmy> What's this I hear about Kreacher/Gregory?? [18:18] <GregoryTheSmarmy> Please, spare the comparison... *rolleyes* [18:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I wonder if we'll get a flashback of him in finer days sort of like Smeagol [18:18] <Evreka> LOL [18:18] <Moriah> lol [18:19] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [18:19] <dumbleydore18> Kreacher means Gregory in Armanian smarmy [18:19] <Evreka> Hope not Gfab [18:19] <SoonerGryffindor> admit it though, didn't you all cheer whenever Dobby kicked his butt in HBP? [18:19] <GregoryTheSmarmy> err, really? [18:19] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> true - it would make us pity him [18:19] <dumbleydore18> heck yes! [18:19] <Evreka> Oh YES! [18:19] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [18:19] <dumbleydore18> infact i forgot all about the butt kicking [18:19] <GregoryTheSmarmy> but Kreacher is just a twist of creature I always thought... [18:19] <dumbleydore18> lol [18:20] <SoonerGryffindor> hey Moriah, I loved the interview you gave [18:20] <Moriah> Yeah, that's what Ginny said earlier, Gregorya [18:20] <Moriah> Thanks Sonner!! [18:20] <Val_Halla> I don't think Kreacher had finer days [18:20] <LJ> We will be starting the discussion in 5 minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [18:20] <dumbleydore18> same here smarmy but i looked it up on name meanings and thats what it lead me to [18:20] <Evreka> I think Harry could grant him his wish... :evil: (J/K) [18:20] <GregoryTheSmarmy> thanks Ginny! [18:21] <LJ> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [18:21] <LJ> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like “L.J got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. [18:21] <LJ> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [18:22] <LJ> The transcript of this chat will be available shortly after we finish. It will be posted in our new Corner Booth Forum: http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html There is also a poll there where you can vote on next weeks Wize Wizaed Chat: http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry869326 [18:22] <LJ> House elves in the Harry Potter series are characters with their own distinct and powerful brand of magic. This unique being, and its magic, is introduced in the series through Dobby in the Chamber of Secrets and furthered by Winky and S.P.E.W in GoF, as well as Kreacher in OoTP and HBP. [18:23] <LJ> Today, we will be focusing on Dobby and his magic, as well as house elves in general, as relates to what we learn in CoS. The Lexicon’s article on House Elves can be found here, http://www.hp-lexicon.org/bestiary/house_elves.html , and should contain some helpful information for this chat. [18:23] *** sherbert_lemon123 has joined #lounge [18:24] <LJ> Initially, what were your first opinions on Dobby? His physical attributes seem to be exaggerated - what significance, if any, do you see in this? [18:24] <LJ> K guys, you can type now [18:24] <SoonerGryffindor> well at first I didn't like him because of what he was doing to Harry [18:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Lj - it's almost as if elves have been mutated over the years [18:24] *** AlchemistApprentice has joined #lounge [18:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> beaten down by slavery [18:24] <Evreka> He seemed to not be friendly and helpfull at ALL [18:25] <Moriah> Good point, Ginny. Do they need to hear better as house-elves? [18:25] <SoonerGryffindor> but is it nature vs. nurture [18:25] <DorisTLC> I loved the description of his eyes. Those big eyes just made me feel for him, it reminds me of a small child. [18:25] <Evreka> Exactly Sooner [18:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - definitely - that would explain the oversized ears [18:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and eyes [18:25] <AlchemistApprentice> eyes like ET? [18:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> they have to see and hear more [18:25] <SoonerGryffindor> lol... I just pulled up the thread that Mr. McGonagall started [18:25] <Evreka> LOL [18:26] <GregoryTheSmarmy> ehh... his pointed and strangely proportioned appearance just annoyed me... pretty much everything about poor Dobby just annoys me... [18:26] <Evreka> A bit long posts to repeat here, thopugh [18:26] <SoonerGryffindor> see, I have my ways to "cheat" during the chat and get some good insights [18:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - Doris - soulful eyes - trapped [18:26] <LJ> Big eyes - all the better to see you with my dear (paraphrased) [18:26] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I'm uncompassionate like that [18:26] *** Islwyn13 has joined #lounge [18:26] <DorisTLC> Eyes like a child's eyes. Innocent and needing protection [18:26] <SoonerGryffindor> lol LJ [18:26] <Evreka> LOL LJ [18:26] <Islwyn13> Greetings, all! [18:26] <AlchemistApprentice> innonect yes maybe but he knows more than Harry [18:27] <SoonerGryffindor> one big question that I have is how do you get an elf in the first place? [18:27] *** mugglemom4 has joined #lounge [18:27] <Moriah> The oversized eyes and ears might suggest that he has even more important info [18:27] <Islwyn13> Ebay? [18:27] <DorisTLC> yes, but unlike Harry he has no rights of his own [18:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - AA - I think elves have their own gossip network smile [18:27] <GregoryTheSmarmy> lol [18:27] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [18:27] <Evreka> Not very innocent with that take on "help" and "protection" [18:27] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I think they just sort of appear... [18:27] <LJ> long thin nose, all the better to smell you with? [18:27] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I agree Evreka [18:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LJ - it's sort of the opposite of see no evil/hear no evil and so on [18:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> they see all, and hear all [18:28] <GregoryTheSmarmy> ooh... good one! [18:28] <LJ> His physical appearance is exxagerated a lot, everything is bigger/longer [18:28] <Islwyn13> and yet are supposed to be forbidden to tell anyone what htey see and hear [18:28] <Val_Halla> Dobby's nose is pencil-like, but Winky's is like a squashed tomato [18:28] <SoonerGryffindor> so what makes Dobby so special? [18:28] <Evreka> Yeah, and are treated like vermin in Dobbys case [18:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - E [18:28] <Moriah> But even though they do, they are supposed to act like they don't. [18:28] <Islwyn13> Dobby has deviated from the notion that he must worship his owners [18:28] <GregoryTheSmarmy> Maybe Dobby has been abused *so* much that the scales have fallen from his eyes... [18:28] <Islwyn13> maybe because of how horribly he's treated [18:29] <AlchemistApprentice> yet there- and Dobby's magic are not fully explained along with how a wizarding family starts with one [18:29] <Evreka> That's a bit odd though [18:29] <Islwyn13> yeah, Gregory, that one ;) [18:29] <dumbleydore18> My first reaction to Dobby was that he was a bit mental. Jumping up and down on Harry's bed, banging his head on the wall, and with the lamp in Harry's room, I mean how can you not think he is a little loony? At the same time because he cared so much about warning harry about not going to school showed me great character and bravery on Dobby's part because he's leaving the Malfoy's for a short while to warn harry and that can [18:29] <SoonerGryffindor> is he an anomoly, or do you think there are more rebellious elves out there? [18:29] <Evreka> I had the theory Dobby might not allways have belonged to the Malfoys. [18:29] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I think he's one of the very few [18:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Well, we've only seen Dobby and Kreacher in great detail and both defy their masters in subtle (and not so much, sometimes) ways [18:29] <Islwyn13> there must be some somewhere, I woudl think [18:29] <Val_Halla> Kreacher was treated like vermin by Sirius. It seems that when their political beliefs differ from their masters that's when there's trouble [18:29] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Val Halla [18:29] *** sherbert_lemon123 left #lounge [] [18:29] <GregoryTheSmarmy> doesn't Dobby say his family has served the Malfoys for long..? [18:29] <Islwyn13> Kreacher was already a bit off because of the portrait of Sirius's mother [18:30] <Moriah> Think so, Gregorya [18:30] <GregoryTheSmarmy> oh definitely [18:30] <Islwyn13> he still worships his owners, but Sirius was a disinherited blood traitor [18:30] <Evreka> No, he wasn't - not like Dobby [18:30] <SoonerGryffindor> so basically they can have their own opinions and the magic that binds them can't affect their thinking [18:30] <Islwyn13> I dont' think Kreacher would have respected Sirius regardless of how he was treated [18:30] <Islwyn13> too much brainwashing [18:30] <Evreka> Never Gregory [18:30] <AlchemistApprentice> well his action are much like a child- in refernence to Doris- how ever kreacher is the oppisite- both are treated badly [18:30] <dumbleydore18> I have a question about house elves in gernal: when can they leave their masters without getting caught? is this something that needs to be specific in the terms and conditions when owning a house elf? [18:30] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [18:31] <AlchemistApprentice> and is kreacher and Dobby a ying and yang- like Harry and LV? [18:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes AA - Kreacher appears to support his evil masters despite the abuse whereas Dobby acts the opposite [18:31] <Islwyn13> it doesn't seem like the wizards who own them can monitor their movements [18:31] <SoonerGryffindor> good comparison Al [18:31] <AlchemistApprentice> true they are not monitored! [18:31] <Val_Halla> I think they can come and go as long as it doesn't involve disobeying any explicit orders [18:31] <Islwyn13> so if they're willing to except the consequences, they can go against their orders? [18:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Isl - it goes to them being more powerful than wizards I think [18:31] <Moriah> Dumbley, I think they can schew an order and use it to their advantage to leave the home [18:31] <Evreka> Winky and Kreacher is known to have had long lines of ancestors [18:32] <Islwyn13> at least in some regards, I agree, Ginny [18:32] <SoonerGryffindor> and it all depends on their master givng them exact orders without any loopholes [18:32] <Evreka> in the same family but we know nothing of Dobby [18:32] <Islwyn13> and loopholes are easy to find [18:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I believe it is written somewhere in the books that elves are more powerful than wizards but it's only through their magical 'bondage' that their powers are kept in check [18:32] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [18:32] <AlchemistApprentice> schew as in pretend not to understand fully Moriah? [18:32] <SoonerGryffindor> hi Pleshette [18:32] <Pleshette> Hi Sooner! [18:32] <dumbleydore18> if you dont want to type my name out you can call me DD18 for short [18:32] <Moriah> As in, when Sirius told Kreacher to get out, he did so literally instead of what Sirius really meant [18:32] <Pleshette> Hi dd18! [18:33] <Islwyn13> All Sirius said to Kreacher was "out!"...very open to interpretation, as we saw [18:33] <SoonerGryffindor> so maybe there is more of a symbiotic relationship going on? [18:33] <GregoryTheSmarmy> that's interesting, Sooner [18:33] <dumbleydore18> hi pleshette! [18:33] <SoonerGryffindor> their powers are part of them being servants? [18:33] *** Moriah has quit [Bye] [18:33] *** Moriah has joined #lounge [18:33] <AlchemistApprentice> sooner? symbolic in what way? [18:33] <Islwyn13> I think they had the powers anyway... [18:33] <GregoryTheSmarmy> Mo, whatcha playing at? ;p [18:33] <LJ> How much control do you feel that house elves have over their own magic? As Dobby showed in CoS, they can escape their masters if they wish – does it take a particularly powerful elf to do this, or just one with the nerve to disobey their master? [18:33] <SoonerGryffindor> gfab made an interesting point [18:33] <Islwyn13> still leaves the question of why they allowd themselves to be enslaved, though [18:33] <Moriah> lol, had an 'opa' [18:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes S/G - symbiotic - agree [18:34] <Evreka> I don't think they can disobey an order [18:34] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I think they could all disobey.... most of them just don't want to [18:34] <dumbleydore18> I think it takes both nerve and determination [18:34] <Islwyn13> I'm trying to remember... [18:34] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe the reason they have the kind of magic they have is all tied up in their enslavement [18:34] <Islwyn13> Did Winky disobey Crouch SR, or was she magically dragged along when Crouch JR disobeyed his father [18:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hi LJ - I think they are more controlled by whatever magical contract into slavery is present [18:34] <AlchemistApprentice> I agree everaka- but they are smart enough to find loopholes like Dooby did [18:34] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I don't think so... Dobby still has his magic, right? [18:34] <dumbleydore18> I mean if i were a house elf living with the Malfoys i'd want to get out every chance I got! [18:34] <Moriah> I think if any of them could do it whenever, Kreacher would have done more in OotP and HBP to disobey Sirius and Harry [18:34] <Evreka> Exactly AA [18:34] <Islwyn13> yeah, Dobby still has his magic] [18:35] <Val_Halla> isl - I thinky Winky was dragged [18:35] <Islwyn13> we see him disapparate in HBP [18:35] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but Dobby was re-employed by DD [18:35] <Islwyn13> ok, thanks Val...couldnt' remember that detail smile [18:35] <GregoryTheSmarmy> oh right Mo.. [18:35] <AlchemistApprentice> on choice [18:35] <Islwyn13> but not enslaved...not bonded to DD [18:35] <Islwyn13> he became a hired hand [18:35] <AlchemistApprentice> Dobby did not have to accept [18:35] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [18:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> correct Isl [18:35] <Pleshette> Where do you think Hogwarts elfs came from? [18:35] <AlchemistApprentice> Hi Ailsinn [18:35] <LJ> Hi Aislinn [18:35] <Evreka> How do you get colored text? [18:35] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [18:35] <Aislinn> hey! [18:35] <mugglemom4> Even though they are bonded they still have choice? [18:35] <dumbleydore18> I'm surprized dobby didnt try and use his magic to defend himself, maybe it would have gotten him away from the malfoys sooner [18:35] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe its like the homeless shelter for elves [18:35] <dumbleydore18> hi [18:36] <Islwyn13> perhaps they were all dismissed by their former owners? [18:36] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I think many of them are born there Pleshette... [18:36] <Aislinn> down at the bottom to the right evreka << [18:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Pleaschette - someone in RG made a good connection to folklorish Brownies [18:36] <Islwyn13> it's hard to tell...not all of the Headmasters of Hogwarts had DD's philanthropic attitude... [18:36] <dumbleydore18> Dobby still have his freedom when working for Dumbledore, he was just working as a hobby [18:36] <Islwyn13> Look at Phineas smile [18:36] <AlchemistApprentice> oh Ginny just gonna fish that out! [18:36] *** Scaedura has joined #lounge [18:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Brownies is fey folklore (?) are house elves [18:36] <Evreka> Thanks a million! Aislinn [18:36] <Moriah> Not so much a hobby but a real job as opposed to enslavement [18:37] <Val_Halla> If you look up brownies on Wikipedia, the description is eerily similar to JKR's house elves [18:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> AA - look for Arianhrod's posts [18:37] <dumbleydore18> I have info on brownies [18:37] <LJ> Hey guys, our new Corner Booth Forum: http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html has a thread where you can learn how to do most things in the chat [18:37] <dumbleydore18> TONS!!!! [18:37] <Islwyn13> don't know much about brownies...were they enslaved in some way? [18:37] <dumbleydore18> but its quite lengthy [18:37] <Islwyn13> or ist he only similarity in their appearance? [18:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> ...and of course then I went off on a tangent, wondering if JK herself was a girl guide/brownie at one time because of all the magical woodland terms [18:37] <AlchemistApprentice> ok so if Dobby is connected to brownies- what is signigigance [18:38] <dumbleydore18> Brownies were not enslaved [18:38] *** Scaedura has quit [Bye] [18:38] <dumbleydore18> they worked for fun [18:38] <AlchemistApprentice> what does it help us understand? [18:38] <SoonerGryffindor> back to Lj's question... i think the elves all have the same basic power, but Dobby is unique because he is a rebell [18:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Well, brownies were tied to the houses they served [18:38] <Val_Halla> Brownies would leave if offered payment [18:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - Val [18:38] <dumbleydore18> they are similar to those elves that helped the shoemaker mend shoes in the middle of the night, they did it to help him [18:38] <Evreka> But they are not part of Jos world and she often twists things around [18:38] <Islwyn13> hmm...but most house-elves won't [18:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and payment in HP terms is clothing [18:38] <AlchemistApprentice> Dobby is a rebel in his appearance as well [18:38] <mugglemom4> I agree Sg [18:39] <Moriah> How so, AA? [18:39] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [18:39] <Islwyn13> they see payment as a social taboo [18:39] <SoonerGryffindor> so its not that he is more powerful, but we see him as that way because he doesnt meekly follow all his orders [18:39] <mugglemom4> He still finds a way to make his own choices when he can [18:39] <AlchemistApprentice> he is the only only that welcomes clothing and enjoys "freddom" [18:39] <dumbleydore18> dobby in the aspect if a reformist [18:39] <AlchemistApprentice> freedom even [18:39] <Islwyn13> that we've seen, yeah [18:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Mugglemom - Dobby is clever at finding loopholes [18:39] <Evreka> Sorry, I got to get some dinner. Hopefully I'll be back before the chat's over. smile [18:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but so is Kreacher [18:39] <Evreka> Bye [18:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and Winky [18:39] <Val_Halla> Hagrid won't join S.P.E.W in GoF. He tells Hermione that it would be "doin' 'em an unkindness". Why do you think this is? [18:39] <SoonerGryffindor> bye Evreka [18:39] <Moriah> Bye, Evreka [18:39] *** Evreka left #lounge [] [18:39] <LJ> bye Evreka [18:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> we don't know much about Hokey [18:39] <dumbleydore18> bye [18:40] <Islwyn13> because of the elves' view of freedom [18:40] <Islwyn13> most don't want it [18:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Winky found a way to lie about Bart Jr's involvement [18:40] <AlchemistApprentice> yes they don't like freedom and don't wear clothing the same way Dobby does.. [18:40] <Moriah> Because she is forcing something on them that they aren't ready for [18:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> despite her master being Sr. [18:40] <SoonerGryffindor> well, in the case of Hogwarts, it would be unkind because they are treated well there [18:40] <Islwyn13> forcing them to accept it is taking away their freedom of choice [18:40] *** girlandtonic has joined #lounge [18:40] <Moriah> Well said, Islwyn [18:40] <SoonerGryffindor> besides, it was a tricky thing to do to them. She took away their choices just like an owner would [18:41] <AlchemistApprentice> so is choices another theme among the house elves? [18:41] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I wonder what this magical contract/slave agreement is between wizards and elves [18:41] <SoonerGryffindor> even though she had good intentions [18:41] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> what debt do elves owe wizards, do you think? [18:41] <Islwyn13> yeah, AA, I think it is [18:41] *** girlandtonic has quit [Bye] [18:41] <Islwyn13> they force us to consider that what we consider bad for someone else may not be seen as bad by them [18:41] <mugglemom4> I would think choices would be another theme. [18:41] <SoonerGryffindor> debt? [18:42] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Well they're enslaved for a reason [18:42] <Islwyn13> at what point to you force your views on others who don't share them? [18:42] <Moriah> Hm, I don't know that there is a debt, Ginny [18:42] <dumbleydore18> how did house elves become enslaved? For what reasons? [18:42] <Islwyn13> the $6 million question, that! [18:42] <Moriah> I think they were enslaved for convinence, not for punishment [18:42] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> how did they become enslaved is probably a better question - sorry bout that [18:42] <Islwyn13> but if they're stronger than wizards, how did that hpapen? [18:42] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it was a way for wiards to be able to control their magic [18:42] <Val_Halla> DD18, I sincerely hope Jo explains this in Book7 [18:42] <SoonerGryffindor> good question Isl [18:42] <Pleshette> For a home, security perhaps [18:42] <dumbleydore18> but they can be used for many things instead of being slaves [18:43] <Islwyn13> could they have had a social desire for serving others? [18:43] <dumbleydore18> to help defear Voldmort himself [18:43] <Islwyn13> thus making them open to the idea of bonding themselves to a wizard family? [18:43] <SoonerGryffindor> again, its the whole nature vs nurture agrument [18:43] <dumbleydore18> they are very powerful [18:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - Isl - and perhaps... [18:43] <Pleshette> In exchange they would serve their masters [18:43] <mugglemom4> They love to work and maybe somewhere along the way wizards got jealous of their powers... [18:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> they were taken advantage of [18:43] <Islwyn13> right, but not necessarily forced into bondage [18:43] <Pleshette> Why were they treated worse during LV reign? [18:43] <dumbleydore18> but if the MoM knew their powers, why not use them for good? [18:43] <SoonerGryffindor> are they genetically prone to servitude, or is it that way because they don't know anything else? [18:44] <Islwyn13> prejudice and intolerance were at an all0time high, I would think, Pleshette [18:44] <AlchemistApprentice> but was the advantage done to help the elves at some point and then those of the dark side twist it? [18:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Pleashette - this is something I have wondered about - it appears only rich wizarding families still have elves serving them... [18:44] <Moriah> Pleshette, I think maybe people cared more of their own safety at that time than treating house elves well [18:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the Longbottoms and Potters appear to have wealth... [18:44] *** Lizzieangel90 has joined #lounge [18:44] <LJ> Just how strong and subtle is the magic that binds a house-elf to his or her master? Could it somehow prevent Dobby from being useful when he's knowingly going against his master's wishes? [18:44] <Islwyn13> that's an interesting question, though...why would only rich families have house-elves if they don't pay them? [18:44] <Pleshette> They served in pure-blood families though, probably DE like Malfor [18:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> did they also have (or does the L/B family stilll have) house elves [18:45] <dumbleydore18> Maybe house-elves were used as defense to help save people, their very own gaurd dog persay [18:45] <Islwyn13> Dobby no longer has a master, though [18:45] <SoonerGryffindor> In what way do you mean useful LJ? [18:45] <Pleshette> I would think the DE families could use elfs to their advantage [18:45] <LJ> dumbleydore18: please don't use bold, it's confusing as to who is leading the discussion [18:46] <GregoryTheSmarmy> I have to go, sorry guys... have a good chat! [18:46] <dumbleydore18> sorry LJ [18:46] <Islwyn13> Bye, Gregory! smile [18:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Pleshette - I totally agree [18:46] <SoonerGryffindor> bye gregory [18:46] <Pleshette> Bye Gregorya! [18:46] <Moriah> Later, Gregorya! [18:46] <AlchemistApprentice> byes! [18:46] <Lizzieangel90> dobby doesn't have a master....the malfoys freed him...and he was being paid by dumbledore, so does dumbledore "count" as a true "master" [18:46] <GregoryTheSmarmy> byes all! smile enjoy! [18:46] <dumbleydore18> bye [18:46] <Islwyn13> not magically, Lizzie, but maybe in Dobby's mind? [18:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I am stil confused by your last question LJ [18:46] <Pleshette> Not binding, I don't think [18:47] *** GregoryTheSmarmy left #lounge [] [18:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Lizzie - I think Dobby is employed by the school and serves the school [18:47] <Islwyn13> he's very grateful to DD for hiring him on, so he may treat him as a master, even though he's not forced to magically [18:47] <Pleshette> He serves DD because he wants to [18:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but of course would look at DD as the head [18:47] <Val_Halla> Perhaps house elf temperament is similar to a dog's - they usually love their masters unconditionally and ask nothing in return [18:47] <Islwyn13> DD is now gone, does that mean Harry will be the new "master"? [18:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think, though we see the school elves serving students too - like Fred and George [18:47] <LJ> S/G, as in when Dobby is giving Harry information against his masters wishes, could the info hurt Harry more than help - does the bind prevent him from giving Harry proper help [18:47] <Lizzieangel90> dobby seems to be a very unique house elf... he doesn't confirm to the "normal" way elves are supposed to act and think [18:47] <AlchemistApprentice> so that would mean Dobby's committment is to Hogwarts not DD? [18:47] <SoonerGryffindor> I see now... [18:48] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, I think that it does [18:48] <dumbleydore18> going against your master or elder is danferous i think its good that dobby went agains the malfoys, but if he were caught at a great price he would suffer *yoda talk* [18:48] <Moriah> Dobby works for Hogwarts. He can choose to work for Harry if he wants but it's a choice between Harry and Dobby, not any binding magic [18:48] <mugglemom4> Ginny, I am not sure, remember how he helped Harry in HBP? He volunteered to help him, loved the seen with him and kreacher at it smile [18:48] <dumbleydore18> *dangerous [18:48] <Pleshette> Dobby isn't committed to anyone now that he is free I dont think [18:48] <AlchemistApprentice> hmmm Harry and Dobby are the same then almost Lizzie? [18:48] *** Scaedura has joined #lounge [18:48] *** Scaedura has quit [Bye] [18:48] <Islwyn13> but Dobby may CHOOSE to commit himself to someone [18:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Correct Pleshette but he still has a sense of duty [18:48] <SoonerGryffindor> anybody have the suspciion that Dobby wll try to make himself Harry's property? [18:49] <Pleshette> Agreed [18:49] <Lizzieangel90> wow... great point Alchemist [18:49] <Lizzieangel90> yeah i agree [18:49] <Islwyn13> no, Sooner, I think he enjoys the freedom [18:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> in fact, he's insulted I think by the offer of pay [18:49] <Val_Halla> SG- yes [18:49] <Moriah> I don't think he wants to be anyone's property, even Harry's [18:49] <Islwyn13> but still has that sense of wanting to serve [18:49] <Pleshette> Property is too strong of aword [18:49] <Pleshette> Yes Islwyn [18:49] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, but he's intensely loyal to him and he knows he would not be mistreated [18:49] <dumbleydore18> S/G i dont think DObby will become Harrys property [18:49] <Islwyn13> just on his own terms smile [18:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think he reveres Harry - and will protect him by any means [18:49] <Pleshette> True Sooner [18:49] <dumbleydore18> maybe a sidealong friend [18:49] <Lizzieangel90> i think dobby will always be loyal to harry and help him in any way he can [18:49] <Lizzieangel90> yeah [18:49] <Islwyn13> right, but why become Harry's property? [18:50] <Moriah> I think Harry would insist on payment if Dobby tried [18:50] <Islwyn13> he can help Harry and receive Harry's help in return without htat [18:50] <SoonerGryffindor> I was just thinking that maybe an elf's powers might be enhanced by the bondage [18:50] <Pleshette> A bag of socks for a job well done [18:50] <Islwyn13> Dobby doesn't seem weakened by his freedom, thoguh [18:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Interesting S/G [18:50] <Moriah> Perhaps, Sooner [18:50] <Islwyn13> he can still apparate, at least [18:50] *** Professor_Nigellus has joined #lounge [18:50] <mugglemom4> Since Dobby is a paid employee at hogwarts, would he still work there in book 7? [18:50] <dumbleydore18> maybe, but the things that harry has to defeat will be dangerous and i dont think harry will endanger dobby [18:50] <Islwyn13> and Dobby knocked Lucius back after he was freed [18:50] <SoonerGryffindor> still...there's gotta be a reason the bondage was started way back n the first place [18:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he's actually not a paid employee - he refused payment, remember? [18:51] <SoonerGryffindor> there must be some upside for the elf [18:51] *** shinnsky has joined #lounge [18:51] <AlchemistApprentice> If bondage strentghen magic I still don't see Harry having a slave it is against his nature [18:51] <mugglemom4> Oops sorry! [18:51] <Islwyn13> I thoguht he accepted it, just not as much as DD waqnted to pay him... [18:51] <Moriah> No, he's paid. Just not as much as DD offered [18:51] <Islwyn13> could be remembering that wrong [18:51] <Val_Halla> Dobby is paid [18:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> it was offered to him - yes [18:51] <Islwyn13> ah, ok, there is is smile [18:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but he declined [18:51] *** shinnsky has quit [Bye] [18:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> there was another agreement struck [18:51] <Islwyn13> let me check lexicon...must know for sure! smile [18:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I wish I could remember what it was... hmm [18:52] <SoonerGryffindor> even a free thinker like Dobby was horrified at too much pay or too much time off [18:52] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes S/G [18:52] <AlchemistApprentice> yes Sooner [18:52] <SoonerGryffindor> so I think there is more to it than we maybe realize [18:52] <LJ> was it 1 Galleon a week and one day off a month? [18:52] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> perhaps it was an offer to keep him in a supply of socks [18:52] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> smile [18:52] <dumbleydore18> wasnt dobby payed though? how did he get money to pay for yarn to knit socks? [18:52] <Islwyn13> yeah, he gets paid [18:52] <Moriah> Something like that, LJ [18:52] <Lizzieangel90> dobby just wants to serve...but not be someone's slave...... he is slowly breaking the mold of the typical house elf [18:52] <Islwyn13> according to lexicon [18:53] <LJ> ok, so back to what we learn/see in CoS [18:53] <LJ> Whenever Dobby disobeys his masters, he is seen to punish himself. Are his punishments willing? Does he initiate them on his own, or is he forced to by the magic which binds him to his master? Has it become a force of habit, as he has been under a cruel master for so many years? [18:53] <AlchemistApprentice> so is Dobby then symbolic of the radicals- or considered radicals that ended slavery in general [18:53] <Islwyn13> probably a little of both... [18:53] <AlchemistApprentice> sorry LJ [18:53] <Islwyn13> he tries to punish himself when he disobeys Umbridge [18:53] <SoonerGryffindor> Kreacher did the same thing, so there must be some kind of mixture [18:53] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LJ - I think it's a bit of both - his conscience and the fact he's trying to beat the Malfoys to it [18:53] <Islwyn13> and she doesn't own him...so it's like it's out of habit [18:53] <dumbleydore18> well I have to go....me mum is cooking baken!!!! [18:53] <dumbleydore18> see you on monday!!! [18:53] <Lizzieangel90> i think he feels like he has to punish him self when he goes against his master wishes [18:53] <SoonerGryffindor> bye DD 18 [18:54] <Val_Halla> Dobby was offered 10 galleons/week and weekends off [18:54] *** dumbleydore18 left #lounge [] [18:54] <Lizzieangel90> byebye DD18 [18:54] <AlchemistApprentice> bye [18:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Dobby has an exaggerated conscience I think [18:54] <Islwyn13> Winky was disgusted with Dobby because he was "wanting to be paid." [18:54] <Lizzieangel90> yeah...i agree GFAB [18:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> overdeveloped [18:54] <Pleshette> But isn't only Dobby that punishes himself? [18:54] <SoonerGryffindor> kreacher did too [18:54] <Islwyn13> no, Kreacher did too [18:54] <Pleshette> When I can't remember [18:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Winky has ibut in a different way [18:54] <SoonerGryffindor> somewhere in OotP [18:54] <Lizzieangel90> i think that house elves are taught to punish them selves [18:55] <Islwyn13> when he lied to Harry about Sirius, I think [18:55] <Islwyn13> because he was betraying Sirius [18:55] <Moriah> I think so too, Islwyn [18:55] <Islwyn13> not positive, though [18:55] <mugglemom4> pg 379 gof "dobby gets a Galleon a week and one day off a month!" [18:55] <Islwyn13> that's possible, Lizzie [18:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> It seems house elves self mutilate through their own judgement of what it means to them to defy their masters [18:55] <AlchemistApprentice> thanks mugglemom [18:55] <Lizzieangel90> kreacher never thought he was supposed to serve sirus because he was disowned by the blacks [18:56] <Islwyn13> which is weird...Kreacher certainly didn't mind betraying Sirius, so why did he feel the need to punish himself? [18:56] <Moriah> LJ and her great memory again smile [18:56] <LJ> woot [18:56] <Moriah> I think that shows there is magic involved [18:56] <Islwyn13> agreed, Moriah [18:56] <Islwyn13> and Dobby continues that behaviour out of habit, I thnk [18:57] <AlchemistApprentice> is it an impedious like curse then that they have to punish against own choice? [18:57] <LJ> I think with Dobby, after he was freed, it was a force of habit to punish himself - but I think when a House-elf is enslaved they are ordered by their masters that if they do anything wrong they must punish themselves [18:57] <Islwyn13> he keeps thanking Harry when Harry stops him from punishing himself...makes it seem involuntary, though [18:57] <mugglemom4> no problem AA. I too wonder why they punish themselves [18:57] <SoonerGryffindor> interesting that he had not been property of the Malfoys for almost 4 years and he still wanted to punish himself for tailing Draco [18:57] *** DorisTLC has quit [Bye] [18:57] <mugglemom4> that makes sense lg [18:58] <Lizzieangel90> ok...i've go to go.. have fun everyone!! byebye [18:58] *** mugglemom4 has quit [Bye] [18:58] *** DorisTLC has joined #lounge [18:58] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bye Lizz [18:58] <Pleshette> Bye [18:58] <Islwyn13> Bye, LIzzie smile [18:58] *** mugglemom4 has joined #lounge [18:58] <LJ> bye Lizzie [18:58] <AlchemistApprentice> bye Lizzie and LJ forced to punish how then? [18:58] <Moriah> Good point, Sooner. Shows how strong the bond was and how long he must have worked for the Malfoys before leaving [18:58] <SoonerGryffindor> good questions Moriah [18:58] *** Lizzieangel90 has quit [Bye] [18:58] <mugglemom4> how old is Dooby and how long has he been punishing himself? [18:58] <SoonerGryffindor> I wish I had an answer [18:59] <LJ> House-elves have to obey their masters orders, so if they are told to punish themselves, then they must [18:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> good question mugglemom [18:59] <Islwyn13> don't think we know, Mugglemom [18:59] <AlchemistApprentice> so just by agreement or magically cast spell? [18:59] <Pleshette> That seems likely LJ [18:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> are house elves immortal as in other fantasy tales? [18:59] <SoonerGryffindor> no, they die [18:59] <Islwyn13> I think it must start with magic [18:59] *** Jrg1990 has joined #lounge [18:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or do they just have exceptionally long lives [18:59] <LJ> Hi James [18:59] <Pleshette> They received death threats [19:00] <SoonerGryffindor> not sure, but Hokey died of old age, didnt she? [19:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> we see in the Blacks that when house elves become too old to serve they are beheaded [19:00] <Islwyn13> and Dobby is strange because he continues with the behaviour after the magic is removed from him [19:00] <Jrg1990> *is only here for a few mins* evening all. [19:00] <Moriah> I think probably exceptionally long lives. It seems more powerful wizards live longer [19:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but do they die a natural death otherwise? [19:00] <AlchemistApprentice> yes muggle mom- good one- and isn't there something about Dobby's age somewhere? [19:00] <Islwyn13> Hey, Jrg smile [19:00] <Moriah> So maybe elves do too since they are so powerful [19:00] <Islwyn13> Since they age, I would think they would die a natural death [19:00] *** Synesthesia has joined #lounge [19:00] <SoonerGryffindor> which bring us to a disturbing question... how exactly do they...um... reproduce? [19:00] <Val_Halla> How do we know they have long lives? [19:00] <Synesthesia> hello. [19:00] <Synesthesia> sorry i am late... [19:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> good question S/G! [19:00] <SoonerGryffindor> you only see of single elf families [19:00] <Moriah> haha, probably like any mammal [19:00] *** Scaedura has joined #lounge [19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but you only always see 1 elf per family [19:01] *** Jrg1990 has quit [Bye] [19:01] *** Scaedura has quit [Bye] [19:01] <LJ> Dobby isn't the only one who continues to act as if he is enslaved, Winky won't rerveal the Crouch's secrets [19:01] <AlchemistApprentice> byes1 [19:01] <Synesthesia> 'will soon make lasagna* *Rather dislikes house-elves for some reason* [19:01] <Professor_Nigellus> Kreacher didn't punnish himself for calling Harry a "brat" at the Dursely's, and when Harry called Kreacher to trail Malfoy, Dolby was punishing him for speeking ill of Harry [19:01] <Moriah> I see what you mean now, Sooner [19:01] <Synesthesia> i reckon house-elf families stick with the same houses [19:01] <Synesthesia> but i have no idea how they go out and meet mates when they have to work so hard... [19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> I wonder if different families that have elves work that out together [19:01] <AlchemistApprentice> ooh Prof good catch -but harry wasn't his owner then was he? [19:02] <Synesthesia> that's what I wonder about... how do they get some elf to run off with [19:02] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> so Syn - good point - are the elves tied to the house or to the master/family [19:02] <Moriah> I think he was, AA [19:02] <Moriah> Because of the will Sirius left [19:02] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> 'Brownies' appear to be tied to the house [19:02] <SoonerGryffindor> you never hear about elves having spousese [19:02] <Synesthesia> they'd probably want to stick to other pure blood families because it seems like more pure bloods have elves [19:02] <Synesthesia> but Winky did go on about how her mother worked for the crouches [19:02] <AlchemistApprentice> sorry i meant at that moment - Mo [19:02] <Synesthesia> so perhaps they are tied to the family [19:03] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, and we know that kreachers ancestors were on the black family wall [19:03] <AlchemistApprentice> harry does own a house elf now doesn't he? [19:03] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Syn - I think that's because most 'pure blood' families are like the Malfoys - only a few, like the Weasleys are rare and they don't have an elf [19:03] <SoonerGryffindor> ancestor being the key word there [19:03] <Pleshette> Yes Kreacher is his [19:03] <Moriah> Right, but at that moment, he already was Harry's. He became Harry's when Sirius died, right? [19:03] <Synesthesia> probably because they are rich and have large houses... [19:03] <Synesthesia> unlike the weasleys [19:03] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> even though Ron suggests his mother would love to have one, I think he said it in gest [19:03] <Synesthesia> so perhaps house elves could come with large houses [19:04] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> so it begs the question as to whether the Potters had an elf [19:04] <Moriah> I think that's suggested, Synesthesia [19:04] <Synesthesia> brb... got to figure out why i have to put eggs in lasagna [19:04] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or the Longbottoms [19:04] <Pleshette> Possibly gfab [19:04] <AlchemistApprentice> so then how can dobby switch into Harry's protection he can't- and how will kreacher continue as a slave? when there is no punishment for defy his master? [19:04] <Val_Halla> The Longbottoms could have an elf for all we know [19:04] <Islwyn13> if the potters had a house-elf, wouldn't said house-elf have become Harry's? [19:04] <Islwyn13> when they died? [19:04] <AlchemistApprentice> right Islyn [19:04] <Pleshette> Unless house elf died too [19:05] *** Alachine has joined #lounge [19:05] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> ooh - I just had a thought - the Potters - James' parents - appear to be deceased - is it possible, if they did have an elf, the elf now resides in Hogwarts? [19:05] <Islwyn13> ah, that's possible [19:05] <LJ> or they made a will leaving it to someone else [19:05] <Moriah> Probably so, Islwyn, un... right, what Pleshette said smile [19:05] <Islwyn13> when the house was destroyed [19:05] <Val_Halla> Maybe the potters had an elf and it died in Godric's hollow [19:05] <SoonerGryffindor> I like that thought gfab [19:05] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or... [19:05] <Alachine> Hello everyone. Oh, and I do like that idea. It would be a connection to Harry's past [19:05] <AlchemistApprentice> LJ who would they will it to? [19:05] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Do elves die with the families - out of grief [19:05] <Islwyn13> Possible, GFAB, but wouldn't the house-elf have revealed himself/herself by now? [19:05] <Synesthesia> back again [19:05] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not necessarily Isl [19:05] <Islwyn13> why not? [19:05] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> we see a lot of things not revealed as yet [19:06] <SoonerGryffindor> they may have orders not to [19:06] <Moriah> Like elves in LOTR dieing of grief? [19:06] <Pleshette> Not if there is a living relative [19:06] <Islwyn13> true, but Harry has been to the kitchens... [19:06] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [19:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> like it appears some teachers are married - but there's a reason why it hasn't come to light [19:06] <Alachine> Hrm. Very true, but think of the number of elves at Hogwarts [19:06] <Pleshette> Wouln't other elfs know? [19:06] <LJ> no idea Al, just a possibility - they could have left it to Hogwarts, as GFAB said [19:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Harry doesn't visit the kitches often [19:06] <Synesthesia> harrry's not aware of the teacher's life outside of school [19:06] <SoonerGryffindor> I like the thought that maybe the Potters had an elf and the elf witnessed what happened [19:07] <Moriah> Hm, interesting, Sooner [19:07] <AlchemistApprentice> If harry had an elf then the only living relative would of been Petunia- and I don't see her happy about that- agreed though with at Hogwarts [19:07] <Islwyn13> I just would have thought that a house-elf belonging to Harry's grandparents would be desperate to find a member of the family... [19:07] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - James would have inherited a family elf [19:07] <SoonerGryffindor> that would be a twist we wouldn't see coming [19:07] <Islwyn13> given their attachment to family (apparently [19:07] <Alachine> You know, I think I read in the books somewhere that the Potters did not have an elf [19:07] <AlchemistApprentice> but then harry would have two house elfs? [19:07] <Islwyn13> Hogwarts has many...maybe Harry could have two [19:07] <AlchemistApprentice> Kreacher and? [19:07] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I wonder if there's a wiz statute forbidding having more than one [19:07] <Islwyn13> my brain hurts smile [19:07] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol [19:07] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [19:07] <Pleshette> Can a family have more than one? [19:07] <SoonerGryffindor> I don't think there's a limit on how many elves you can have [19:08] <Alachine> Yes, I think they can. hogwarts has so ,many [19:08] <Islwyn13> We';ve never seen it, but we've never been told there's a limit... [19:08] *** LordValerius has joined #lounge [19:08] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Good point Alachine [19:08] <LJ> OK, so back to CoS [19:08] <LJ> Why does Dobby choose to warn Harry of the danger at Hogwarts? How much of the situation is he aware of, and how does he know what he does? [19:08] <Islwyn13> I think he knows what he does by eavesdropping [19:08] <Synesthesia> he probably knows everything [19:08] <SoonerGryffindor> it does make you wonder how much dobby knows [19:08] <Pleshette> He warns Harry because he's afraid of LV returning to power [19:09] <Synesthesia> because i don't think the people who have house elves keep secrets from them [19:09] *** hermeeownee has joined #lounge [19:09] <Islwyn13> whatever Lucius let slip [19:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think Dobby knows a lot and sees a lot - his overdeveloped sense of concience has come into play here.... [19:09] <Alachine> It seems to me that the elves know more than some of the staff do [19:09] <Val_Halla> Syn - I agree [19:09] <Synesthesia> they tell them everything because they are servants and they don't think much of servants [19:09] <Islwyn13> right, Syn, no reason to [19:09] <AlchemistApprentice> Yes Lucius is like LV and thinks little about what a "house elf" can do [19:09] <LJ> why did he go to Harry, and not DD? [19:09] <Moriah> But Lucius doesn't know the diary is a horcrux. How does Dobby know that Harry will be in danger as a half-blood? [19:09] <Islwyn13> they think the bond will keep the house-elf from revealing their secrets. [19:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> BUT - it may be a bit for self serving purposes too [19:09] <Islwyn13> and it does, to an extent [19:09] <Pleshette> Good question LJ [19:09] <Synesthesia> they wouldn't suspect that he'd risk punishing himself to protect harry [19:09] <AlchemistApprentice> ooh good question LJ [19:09] <SoonerGryffindor> well, I think Dobby knew that the CoS would be opened, and that Harry would be righ in the middle of it [19:09] <Synesthesia> and Dobby seems to be able to think for himself anyway [19:09] <Val_Halla> Lucius knew the diary was the key to opening the Chamber [19:09] <Alachine> House elves seem to catch quite a lot, and I doubt Lucius would worry about what a house elf heard [19:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> He makes no bones about the fact he'd dread a return of LV because of the way his kind were treated [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> but I don't think any of them knew anything about horcruxes [19:10] <Pleshette> Agree Alachine [19:10] <Synesthesia> at least enough tot ake that risk of protecting harry. he's a odd duck among his kind [19:10] <Islwyn13> I think Harry being half-blood may have been irrelevant [19:10] <Moriah> But Ginny, how does he know that LV will return with the diary? [19:10] <AlchemistApprentice> but announceing himself to DD opens up a whole new can of worms so to say [19:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and he knows enough to know that Harry is the only one who can stop it from happening [19:10] <Islwyn13> I thikn the basilisk can kill ANYONE, but is just sent after mudbloods by the Heir of Slytherin [19:10] <Moriah> True, Islwyn [19:10] <Synesthesia> he already knows the whole plan, but he can only say enough to try to keep harry out of trouble [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe he already knows that Harry has a "saving people thing" [19:10] <Islwyn13> so maybe that's why Dobby thought Harry was in danger, just because a dangerous creature was about to be set free [19:10] <Moriah> Good point [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think, though S/G Dobby knows more about the prophecy and such [19:11] <Synesthesia> sonce he's grown up hearing about harry and how he stopped the dark lord and he already feels sympathetic towards harry even though his masters hate him [19:11] <Val_Halla> I don't think anyone knew that LV would be able to return via the diary [19:11] <Moriah> I just wonder if he somehow knew the diary was a horcrux without knowing from Lucius [19:11] *** DorisTLC has quit [Bye] [19:11] <Alachine> it seems that Dobby thought everyone was in danger at school, but Harry was the most prevelent in his mind cause he heard so much about him [19:11] <LJ> But he wants to stop Harry going to Hogwarts - if he didn't go back, then nobody would have had much info, therefore wouldn't have stopped Tom Riddle - why didn't Dobby tell DD, the most likely person to stop everything? [19:11] <SoonerGryffindor> we covered this in Room 2 [19:11] *** hermeeownee has quit [Bye] [19:11] *** Sofie has joined #lounge [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hmm Moriah - good question [19:11] <Islwyn13> but Lucius knew the diary would do something, else he wouldn't have tried to off-load it [19:11] <Sofie> hey everybody! [19:11] <SoonerGryffindor> I don't think he knew at all about horcruxes [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - Lucius didn't know it was a horcrux [19:12] <Synesthesia> i think he only cared about protecting harry and that was just about it... [19:12] <Islwyn13> LJ, because I think Dobby's only concern was for Harry [19:12] <AlchemistApprentice> but Dobby knows that there are terrible things- not neccassaryly residing in diary [19:12] <Alachine> he did know it would open the chamber though This post has been edited by L.J: Jul 1 2006, 02:53 PM -------------------- |
 |
  
 
|
|
Jul 1 2006, 03:34 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Fortescue's Spoon Polisher Posts: 3,628 Joined: 6:04pm November 6, 2005 |
[19:12] <SoonerGryffindor> LJ, I think maybe Dobby couldn't tell DD because Lucius told him not to
[19:12] <Synesthesia> not about stopping the whole entire plot. [19:12] <Val_Halla> Lucius knew that Tom could talk through the diary and that it would open the Chamber, but not that it was a horcrux [19:12] <SoonerGryffindor> but he didn't tell him not to go to Harry [19:12] <Pleshette> Good point Sooner [19:12] <Islwyn13> oo, that's possible, Sooner [19:12] <Islwyn13> Loophole, again smile [19:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - but in Book 6 - DD speaks of the fact that had he known it was a horcrux he would have treated it with better care [19:12] <Alachine> Yes, Val_Halla, I agree [19:12] <Moriah> I don't know that he even knew that much, Val Halla [19:13] <Islwyn13> I agree, Ginny, Lucius didn't know it was a horcrux [19:13] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it is somewhere inbetween [19:13] <AlchemistApprentice> ok but in Cos we don't know that - [19:13] <Islwyn13> I don't know if Lucius even knows about the horcruxes [19:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he knew it was special is all [19:13] <LJ> Dobby knew it had something to do with Tom Riddle, as a boy, not the man (LV) he became - he seemed to think he would cause most danger to Harry. Why, what did he know that he didn't reveal? [19:13] <Synesthesia> i doubt he even knew about Voldermort's horcruzes [19:13] <Pleshette> I think Lucius wanted to bring Weasleys down with diary [19:13] <Synesthesia> a wonder he didn't get killed [19:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> true Syn - I agree [19:13] <SoonerGryffindor> I'm sure Dobby heard a lot about LV and Harry whle in the Malfoy house [19:13] <Alachine> I think Lucius just wanted to cause general havoc [19:13] <Islwyn13> Lucius must still be useful to LV in some way [19:13] <Islwyn13> until he got arrested, anyway smile [19:13] <LordValerius> yeah [19:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think you're right Ala [19:14] <Synesthesia> pretty much... he just wanted to get revenge on those muggle-lovers... he didn't think of anything else... [19:14] <Islwyn13> I think Lucius wanted DD dismissed [19:14] <Val_Halla> He wanted to discredit Athur and his Muggle Protection Act [19:14] <Synesthesia> and voldermort must have been like, "You idiot! you are so lucky you are in jail!" [19:14] <Islwyn13> and that, yes, Val [19:14] <Alachine> Lucius looked, to be frank, rather bored in the beggining of CoS [19:14] <SoonerGryffindor> it still makes you wonder why exactly Dobby thought Harry would be in danger [19:14] <Sofie> i agree, Lucius couldnt know about the horcruxes or he wouldnt have gave it to Ginny [19:14] <AlchemistApprentice> Val I think that was the big reason it landed in Ginny's bag [19:14] <Synesthesia> he knew the chamber would be opened again... [19:14] <Moriah> Agreed, Sooner [19:14] <Alachine> oh yes, I would pay to have been there when LV found out [19:14] <Synesthesia> and was afraid harry would be the first to get attacted [19:14] <Pleshette> Maybe because he's close to the Weasleys' [19:14] <Islwyn13> a diary that belonged to the man who tried to kill Harry? that may have been enough, SG [19:14] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think at that point Lucius might have thought his master was truly gone - I can't see him doing anything with property of LV that could possibly destroy it otherwise [19:14] <Islwyn13> not sure, though [19:15] <Synesthesia> he probably did the cruiatus curse on him... or would have if he wasn't in jail [19:15] <LJ> As Draco is not aware of the situation, it must not have been discussed in the Malfoy family home in general. Did Lucius take Dobby along to meetings or have private discussions in his presence? [19:15] <LordValerius> dobby probaly knew it was lv's dairy [19:15] <Val_Halla> SG, everyone knew LV tried to kill Harry before, so I think he just thought any evil artifact of LV would be dangerous to Harry [19:15] <Synesthesia> now to brown meat ina few minutes and decide about eggs.... [19:15] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Lucius keeps a lot from Draco [19:15] <Moriah> I think he probably had the chance before Lucius was in jail, Synesthesia [19:15] <Islwyn13> Lucius may have talked to Narcissa about things [19:15] <Synesthesia> dobbyu would have been there just working or something [19:15] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Val Halla [19:15] <AlchemistApprentice> sure Lucius seems to love people biding on his every wim [19:15] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LJ - I think elves have their own spying methods - I don't think Lucius would have taken him along [19:15] <Synesthesia> polishing silverwear... [19:16] *** Sofie has quit [Bye] [19:16] <Pleshette> Yes Isl and othe DE at his home [19:16] <Synesthesia> or he'd even probably talk to him about it... seeing as he's only a servant bonded to him. [19:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> it was mentioned in RG how elves seem to know so much... [19:16] <Alachine> I think that Dobby eavesdropped on Lucius, and Lucius just didn't care [19:16] <AlchemistApprentice> and Sooner agree with your statement of Draco [19:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think they have their own network [19:16] <Synesthesia> and guys like that like to talk about their plains [19:16] <Islwyn13> Lucius didnt' think enough of Dobby to talk to him directly, I dont' think [19:16] <LJ> Do you think there's an Elf network of gossipers, or something? [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Lucius had such disrespect for Dobby that he was almost like the furniture [19:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yep [19:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL [19:16] <Alachine> I agree sooner [19:16] <Islwyn13> testing [19:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> like a floo network [19:16] <Pleshette> Agreed Sooner [19:17] <LordValerius> ha, maybe [19:17] <Alachine> an elf floo network. Amusing thought [19:17] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol [19:17] <Moriah> It's been fun chatting! Have a good one all smile [19:17] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> maybe they discuss it at union meetings - okay - this is a joke [19:17] <Synesthesia> i doubt they gossip, but they know EVERYTHING [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> well, there has to be some way for them to meet each other so there can be future generations of elves [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> bye Moriah [19:17] <Pleshette> Which is a great weakness with LV and followers [19:17] <AlchemistApprentice> bye MO! [19:17] <Islwyn13> later, Moriah smile [19:17] <Alachine> I rather doubt they'd need one, given their magic. They probably have many ways to communicate [19:17] <Val_Halla> I can envision Lucius having meetings at his home and having Dobby serve drinks like a waiter. [19:17] *** Moriah has quit [Bye] [19:17] <Pleshette> they understimate those they consider weak [19:18] *** AlchemistApprentice has quit [Bye] [19:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> so perhaps they have a psychic connection/abilities? [19:18] <Islwyn13> I'm not sure Lucius would have DEs to his home [19:18] <Alachine> hrm. I doubt it. I think it is more like passing notes via magic etc. [19:18] <Islwyn13> many of the DEs only escaped Azkaban because they said they were imperioused. [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> I don;t think that's quite it gfab, but they can come instantly when they are summoned [19:18] <Synesthesia> they'd probably be polishing their shoes and getting them dressed then the person would just talk about their plans to someone else or something [19:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> well - JK talks about a scene where Nott is visiting but it was cut [19:18] *** AlchemistApprentice has joined #lounge [19:18] <Synesthesia> just not to draco... [19:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Nott is a DE [19:18] <LordValerius> lucius understimated dobby alot [19:19] <Val_Halla> BUt some DE's know each other socially as well [19:19] <Islwyn13> but the MoM would still know of their identities and maybe be suspicious if a bunch of them got together a tLucius's house [19:19] <AlchemistApprentice> oops! [19:19] <Trozam> LJ: [19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> nice of you to apparate back in Al [19:19] <AlchemistApprentice> ha! gotta practice to be good as Dobby! [19:19] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> it's like any secret society, though - I think meetings still took place [19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [19:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> to conspire - there's a lot of talk about muggle baiting and such [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Malfoy was probably head of all the free DE's at the time, so I can see him leading meetings [19:20] <Islwyn13> I agree with that, GFAB, just not sure Lucius would have jeopardized his position and popularity with the MoM by meeting them in HIS house [19:20] <AlchemistApprentice> wait Ginny are you saying elfs and De are alike? [19:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not at all [19:20] <AlchemistApprentice> as secerect societies [19:20] <Synesthesia> but some of them work for the MoM [19:20] <Synesthesia> like that dood that kills creatures [19:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sorry - should have clarifed - I was talking about DE's meeting [19:20] <Synesthesia> is that Not or Avery or what? [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> MCNair [19:20] <Pleshette> McNair [19:20] <Val_Halla> All the DE's still at large are presumed innocent or were never caught [19:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and how they meet and where [19:20] <Islwyn13> that's true, Syn [19:20] <Synesthesia> lot's of them work for the MoM, so no one would know they are DE people. [19:21] <Pleshette> Beat me Soonersmile [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [19:21] <Islwyn13> and the MoM is blind to most things, so it may not have been a problem after all smile [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> fast fingers... [19:21] <Synesthesia> so they could all just hang out, meet and be evil together [19:21] <AlchemistApprentice> ahh ok [19:21] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> pretty much Syn [19:21] <Val_Halla> Syn- lol [19:21] <Synesthesia> in the comfort of each other's homes as they must pretend to be good any other time [19:21] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL [19:21] <Islwyn13> lol, ah, family! be evil together... [19:21] <Pleshette> Meet together and send the kiddos offf to play [19:21] <Alachine> yes, I can see the MoM ignoring that they were meeting [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, and they can all hang out together and play Go Fish....lol [19:21] <AlchemistApprentice> can the MoM do anything about enslavement? [19:21] *** Professor_Nigellus has quit [Bye] [19:21] <Islwyn13> hehe, if they cared [19:21] <Synesthesia> they wouldn't because they don't care [19:21] <Pleshette> Crabble Goyle and Malfor playing wiffle ball [19:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Well, who would suspect anything about old wizarding families visiting each other [19:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL Pleshette! [19:22] <Alachine> if they even cared at all, they could [19:22] <Islwyn13> if 14 years ago they had been implicated in the Voldywar? [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> exactly, they could disguise their meeting as back yard bar-b-ques [19:22] <Islwyn13> anyone with half a brain would keep an eye on them...so that eliminates teh MOM ;) [19:22] <Pleshette> lol Isl [19:22] <LordValerius> lol [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Isl [19:22] <Val_Halla> DD seems to know who is who [19:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Val, he does [19:22] <LordValerius> yeah he does [19:23] <Alachine> yeah. The MoM tend s to the stupid side [19:23] <Islwyn13> Willfully ignorant, I agree [19:23] <SoonerGryffindor> ack... we are sooooo off topic [19:23] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Ala - they're being purposely aloof [19:23] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [19:23] <Alachine> aye, so true [19:23] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye] [19:23] <Islwyn13> right, house-elves... [19:23] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> think about it: old rich wizarding families, bribes, etc [19:23] <SoonerGryffindor> give us another question LJ [19:23] <Pleshette> And I'm sure Lucius would just slip them a few galleons if anyone got Suspicious [19:23] <Alachine> yeah come on [19:23] <Synesthesia> donations to good causes [19:23] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the MoM is corrupt [19:23] <AlchemistApprentice> so who will free elfs- harry, Hermoine [19:23] <Alachine> he has enough money to [19:23] <LJ> House-elves' powers of transporting themselves: is it the same as apparition for wizards, or is it a different type of magic altogether? Can house-elves perform ‘side-along apparition?’ [19:23] <Islwyn13> yes, the "save Lucius malfoy from suspicion" fund [19:24] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [19:24] <Val_Halla> I don't think the elves will be freed [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Malfoy suggests he gives 'gifts' to the ministry [19:24] <LordValerius> llol [19:24] <Pleshette> lol [19:24] <Synesthesia> i reckon they could. [19:24] <Islwyn13> must be differnet, or they wouoldn't be able to apparate into Hogwarts [19:24] <LordValerius> they don't want to be free [19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> I had that question from when we first see Dobby apparate. It is a different sound [19:24] <Alachine> I think that it is the same concept, but a different type of magic [19:24] <Val_Halla> Perhaps the charm on Hogwarts only applies to humans [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LV I think it's more that they don't know how to be free [19:24] <Pleshette> I don't think they will want to be instntly freed [19:24] <Synesthesia> they have their own powerful magic, different rules and all. [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> they are afraid of the unknown [19:24] <Synesthesia> they like being proles [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> slavery is all they have known for centuries [19:25] <Synesthesia> and working for hours without pay [19:25] <Pleshette> I could See Hermione leading steps to being free in future [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> I they are exempt from the Hogwarts limitations because it would impair their ablity to do their duties there [19:25] <LordValerius> yeah me too [19:25] <Val_Halla> SG - good point [19:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> that is exactly why they are so threatened by Hermione's gifts of hats [19:25] <Alachine> agreed [19:25] <Pleshette> They're too afraid of how it was in past [19:25] <LJ> Harry was holding Dobby's wrist when he apparated out of the Hospital Wing, he didn't apparate along with him. So do you think it has to be intentional, the apparater has to WANT to take someone with them? [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> so it must be a different kind of magic, right? [19:25] <Alachine> has to be [19:25] <fawkes28> did we ever find put how many house elves work at hogwarts? [19:25] <Synesthesia> yes [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> good point LJ [19:25] <Val_Halla> LJ- yes, i think it has to be intentional [19:26] <Islwyn13> yes, LJ, I think it has to be intentional [19:26] <Alachine> but similar enought hat it can be confused with wizard magic [19:26] <Synesthesia> maybe 50 or more i think. [19:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LJ = you've made an excellent observation - wizards cannot apparate in and out of Hogwarts [19:26] <Islwyn13> DD tells Harry to "turn" with him, doesn't he? [19:26] <Alachine> remember the pudding [19:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> due to enchantments [19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> well, the apparation wasn't detected by the MoM, jus the hover charm was [19:26] <Alachine> yes [19:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> it demonstrates how powerful elf magic is or... [19:26] <Islwyn13> oo, also a good point, SG [19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> so it must be different [19:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the enchantments do not cover other beings [19:26] <LordValerius> it must [19:26] <Islwyn13> and they didn't detect the hover charm as being different from a human's [19:26] <Islwyn13> hence the reason they suspected Harry [19:27] <Val_Halla> Maybe this was an error on Jo's part [19:27] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe some things are different, but some things like basic spells are the same [19:27] <Alachine> so they CAN do some types of wizarding magic, but there own magic is different? [19:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but then why did Fenrir have to use the cabinet to get into Hogwarts in HBP [19:27] <Islwyn13> yeah, that's what I'm beginning to think SG [19:27] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that is the right answer Alachine [19:27] <Islwyn13> That would explain why they are forbidden wands [19:27] <Alachine> well fenrir is not exactly a house elf, eh? [19:27] <Val_Halla> Fenrir was not transformed therefore human [19:27] <SoonerGryffindor> Fenrir is a wizard gfab [19:27] <Islwyn13> since that would enable them to do even more Wizard magic [19:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> true - sorry sad [19:27] <Alachine> aye [19:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bah! [19:28] <AlchemistApprentice> ok all goota split- byes! [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> bye Al [19:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bye AA [19:28] <Pleshette> Bye AA [19:28] <LJ> As we have seen house-elves ‘apparating’ inside of Hogwarts, which wizards can’t do, it stands to reason that they can transport themselves into other non-apparate-able zones as well. If they could transport others with them in this manner, would it be helpful to Harry in book seven? [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> heck yes! [19:28] <Alachine> oh yes [19:28] <LordValerius> o yeah [19:28] <Pleshette> Definitely [19:28] <Alachine> imagine LV's face if a house elf got a horcrux [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [19:28] <Synesthesia> maybe... [19:28] <Islwyn13> lol [19:28] <LordValerius> funny [19:28] <Synesthesia> but i so dislike house evles >.< [19:28] <Pleshette> Take that Voldie [19:29] <Alachine> yeah [19:29] <Islwyn13> given the difficulty DD had, though, I'm not sure they could [19:29] <Islwyn13> would be an interesting twist, though [19:29] *** AlchemistApprentice has quit [Bye] [19:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Good question LJ - I'd like to also throw out what significance will they play in the DE uprising? [19:29] *** mugglemom4 has quit [Bye] [19:29] <Alachine> perhaps, perhaps not, They might though [19:29] <Islwyn13> another example of LV's overconfidence leading to his doom [19:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the second war [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> well, we kinda think that maybe Kreacher drank a certain potion.... [19:29] <Islwyn13> what potion? [19:29] <Islwyn13> i'm confused smile [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> so its possible that their magic may be able to override some of the protections [19:29] <Alachine> I doubnt the boat would have recognived a house elf [19:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> as we see, most elves that are owned by families are owned by wicked families [19:29] <Val_Halla> Going back a few minutes, Nearly Headless Nick tells Hermione there are over 100 house elves at Hogwarts [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> in the cave--its just a theory [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Will they support LV or ... [19:30] <Islwyn13> well, Hepzibah wasn't wicked... [19:30] <fawkes28> those house eleves must know something that will help harry [19:30] <Islwyn13> ah, SG, thanks smile [19:30] <Pleshette> Kreacher may have a horcrux, the locket [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> True, but Hokey is not an issue [19:30] <Alachine> I think that house elves will play at least a smaal, but important, part in book 7 [19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> wouldn't it be just like LV to overlook something as basic as elf magic? [19:30] <LordValerius> yeah, me too [19:30] <LJ> Do you think a House-elf would have been able to apparate to the Locket (or fake Locket) - is it really that different from Wizards that it would have gone undetected etc.? [19:30] <Alachine> I agree with Pleshette [19:30] <Val_Halla> SG - yes [19:30] <Islwyn13> absolutely, SG [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> probably LJ [19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> I think so LJ [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and I also agree S/G [19:31] <Islwyn13> that makes it too easy, thoguh [19:31] <Alachine> I doubt LV thought elves a danger to him [19:31] <Islwyn13> then all Harry has to do is locate the Horcruxes, then send Dobby in after them [19:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LV sees them as 'vermin' [19:31] <Islwyn13> or Kreacher, just in case smile [19:31] <Alachine> well, I doubt he would though [19:31] <Islwyn13> that was terrible, sorry sad [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but I don't think Harry would do that to Dobby [19:31] <Pleshette> I dont think Kreacher would necessarily know he has a horcrux just a momento of Mrs. B [19:31] <Val_Halla> House elves can probably fall prey to cureses and such, just like wizards [19:31] <Alachine> yeah... [19:31] <Val_Halla> curses [19:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> probably Pleshette [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Pleshette [19:31] <LJ> I'm not so sure, I think DD would have thought of that - and even if they could have apparated there, it still needed an experienced Wizard to figure out what to do once at the place where the Locket was [19:32] <Islwyn13> I think RAB got the locket and stashed it in Grimmauld place [19:32] <Islwyn13> so Kreacher may have the locket, but I don't think he took it from the cave [19:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> probably right Isl [19:32] <Pleshette> I agree [19:32] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, but maybe an elf will be able to bypass something a qualified wizard can't [19:32] <Alachine> I think that an elf could have reached it, but they might not have been able to figure out how to get it [19:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> good point Ala [19:33] <Alachine> and therefore, DD went himself [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, we learn that elves don't exactly use a lot of logic [19:33] <Islwyn13> is the theory that RAB took Kreacher with him, and made Kreacher drink the potion, so RAB could retrieve the locket? [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> yes Isl [19:33] <fawkes28> harry treats kreacher like crap i doubt harry would even think to ask him if he knows anything [19:33] <Islwyn13> ok, I'm caught up now, sorry smile [19:33] <Val_Halla> DD would never have endangered someone bound to serve him [19:33] <fawkes28> maybe hermione would though [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> so Harry basically falls into the same trap that Lucius and Sirius did? [19:33] <Islwyn13> he hates Kreacher because he betrayed Sirius, but he does use him to help Dobby trail Malfoy [19:33] <fawkes28> true [19:33] <Islwyn13> so it's possible that he would ask Kreacher about what he knows [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> that's where Hermione's compassion will save the day I think [19:34] <Pleshette> Me too Sooner [19:34] <Alachine> I think he sees some of Hermione's viewpoint [19:34] <Alachine> but not much [19:34] <fawkes28> he loses his temper too much with him [19:34] *** Synesthesia has quit [Bye] [19:34] <fawkes28> lol [19:34] *** Professor_Nigellus has joined #lounge [19:34] <Islwyn13> He, who, Alachine, Kreacher? [19:34] <Alachine> Harry [19:34] <Alachine> sorry [19:34] <Islwyn13> ah, ok... [19:34] <Alachine> I should have specified [19:34] *** Synesthesia has joined #lounge [19:35] <Synesthesia> crasehs.. all the time [19:35] <Islwyn13> and I don't think Hermione could get Kreacher to talk to her, because she's a "mud-blood" [19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, but Hermione still insists on treating Kreacher with respect [19:35] <Islwyn13> same for Ron, since he's a blood traitor [19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that will make the difference in the end [19:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> correct Isl [19:35] *** mugglemom4 has joined #lounge [19:35] <Alachine> aye [19:35] <Islwyn13> she does, but he always spurns her every time she tries to be nice to him [19:35] <mugglemom4> oops [19:35] <fawkes28> and DD did say it was important to be nice to Kreacher [19:35] <Alachine> yes he did [19:35] <Synesthesia> >.<* dislikes Kreacher* [19:35] <Synesthesia> as being nice to him doesn't do a thing [19:35] <Islwyn13> you know, the whole "the mud-blood is speaking to me, how dare she?" thing [19:35] <Pleshette> She may help Harry to see that he needs to treat Kreacher with respect to get help [19:35] <Synesthesia> he'd rather be kicked around. [19:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he did fawkes - thanks for the reminder [19:36] <fawkes28> no prob [19:36] <Islwyn13> that's possible, Pleshette [19:36] *** magicmeg8 has joined #lounge [19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, but she will keep Harry reminded of the fact that Kreacher can be an asset if used properly [19:36] <Islwyn13> think how hard taht would be for Harry to do, thoguh [19:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hi Meg8 [19:36] <Islwyn13> given what happened to Sirius [19:36] <Synesthesia> he'd have to help harry anyway, because he has to obey him no matter what [19:36] <LordValerius> yeah [19:36] <LJ> Hi Meg! [19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but there's always loopholes [19:36] <Islwyn13> but we're back to the loophole problem [19:36] <Alachine> Alas, the bane of our lives [19:36] <mugglemom4> is is possible that Dobby knew more about the diary because of another elf telling him who was there who knew about the diary [19:36] <Islwyn13> Kreacher hates Harry, and might try to deceive him without outright lying to him [19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> like at the end of HBP, Harry told Kreacher to "get out of it" that has me worried still.... [19:37] <Val_Halla> I don't think Kreacher has to volunteer his help or knowledge, only obey orders [19:37] <Pleshette> Sort of the reverse of Dobby [19:37] <fawkes28> but is kreacher allowed to tell harry what happened under past masters? [19:37] <magicmeg8> (Hey guys ) [19:37] *** accio_brain has joined #lounge [19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> mey meg [19:37] <fawkes28> like with the black relatives? [19:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hmm - mugglemom - it might be a combo of what he picked up from the Malfoys and what he's picked up from other elves [19:37] <Val_Halla> oooh good question [19:37] <Islwyn13> oo, good question, Fawkes [19:37] <fawkes28> there could be important info [19:37] <Alachine> I think not [19:37] <Islwyn13> does being transferred to a new master break the bonds from the old ones? [19:38] <Alachine> look at dobby trying to tell about the malfoys [19:38] <mugglemom4> oh good you got waht I was trying to say, my baby is starting to fusssmile [19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but who really things that Harry will think to ask those questions? [19:38] <Pleshette> Maybe go to Bella and punish himself for giving info about Harry [19:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I don't know Isl - I think the only time the bond is broken is if the master dies [19:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or they're set free [19:38] <Islwyn13> well, all of Kreacher's former masters are dead [19:38] <Alachine> and no one can pick up the bond from him [19:38] <Islwyn13> so he should be free to tell Harry what Harry asks...just in a convoluted, deceitful way [19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> would Kreacher go to Bella if Harry died? [19:39] <Alachine> probably [19:39] <Synesthesia> yes... [19:39] <fawkes28> i think so [19:39] <LordValerius> yeah, i think [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and I guess another question is.. who do they ultimately serve? head of household or entire family, and if so, what if orders are in contradiction? [19:39] <Islwyn13> or narcissa? [19:39] <Synesthesia> or the malfoys if sometong happened to her. [19:39] <SoonerGryffindor> good queston gfab [19:39] <Alachine> I think they serve the head of the household [19:39] <SoonerGryffindor> i think head of household [19:39] <Islwyn13> that would eliminate the "DRaco sent Dobby to Harry" question [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> We see in the Crouch household Winky serving Jr [19:39] <Alachine> yeah [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> she witholds from Sr. [19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> good point [19:40] <Val_Halla> Harry is not a Black. Kreacher has passed from their ownership, I think [19:40] <Islwyn13> Well, GFAB, she was bound to Jr, but did she have to obey his orders [19:40] *** secretkeepertoall has joined #lounge [19:40] <Pleshette> Yes Harry inherited GP [19:40] <Islwyn13> good point, Val [19:40] <fawkes28> what is someone puts kreacher under the imperius curse? [19:40] <mugglemom4> only if the head overrides the orders I bet. [19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> I think in Winky's case, she probably didnt have conflictng orders [19:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> how though was she bound to Jr more than Sr and when Sr asked for info did she not give it? this has baffled me [19:40] <Alachine> whould anyone think to do so? [19:40] <mugglemom4> Yeah, that is what I was trying to say sg [19:41] *** veelaqueen has joined #lounge [19:41] <Alachine> hrm [19:41] <veelaqueen> hello? [19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> I would hve to reread that secion of GoF to give a good answer to that [19:41] <Pleshette> He veela [19:41] <Alachine> intriguiging... Winky may have disobeyd Sr. [19:41] <Synesthesia> ok, now i will wander off and force myself to cook this lasagna (with stupid eggs in it) see you later [19:41] <Pleshette> Hi I mean lol [19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> lol...bye Syn [19:41] <Islwyn13> Bye, Syn smile [19:41] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I mean who is ultimately served or is it up to elf discretion to a point? [19:41] <Synesthesia> bye! [19:41] <mugglemom4> bye syn [19:41] <magicmeg8> Hey everyone, just wanted to remind you that moderators may contact you during the chat -- you'll know this by a small box that appears next to the #lounge box above the chat [19:42] <veelaqueen> um so whats the disscussion bout [19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> elves [19:42] <Islwyn13> House-elves [19:42] <Islwyn13> anything and everything... [19:42] <Alachine> I think we are ready for the next question [19:42] <LJ> It's been a good discussion [19:42] <Islwyn13> except their personal grooming habits, I don't really want to knwo about that smile [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [19:43] <Alachine> heh, I concur [19:43] <Val_Halla> When Kreacher went to Narcissa in OotP, why didn't he go to Bellatrix? [19:43] <secretkeepertoall> is this about Dobby or ohuse elves in general =) [19:43] <Islwyn13> She was on teh run [19:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> interesting question, Val [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Kreacher and Snape should start their own line of hygeine products [19:43] <Islwyn13> Narcissa was easier to find [19:43] <LordValerius> lol [19:43] <mugglemom4> Who is the oldest sister? [19:43] <Alachine> Yes, most likely [19:43] <Val_Halla> Bellatrix is older [19:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think Bella is [19:43] <veelaqueen> oh,if winky is no longer mr crouch's house elve does that mean she cant be tooken by anyone else? [19:43] <mugglemom4> I mean cousin, oh I can't remember now [19:43] <LordValerius> yeah [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> Wansn;t Bella still in jail? [19:44] <LordValerius> she was [19:44] <Alachine> yes, she was [19:44] <Islwyn13> not at that point [19:44] <SoonerGryffindor> that why then [19:44] <Islwyn13> I thougth they had already broken out? [19:44] <Alachine> hrm [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Veela - Winky was sent to Hogwarts by Crouch - she was bound by his orders [19:44] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, she didn't get out till after the holidays [19:44] <Val_Halla> I thought so too [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> actually - wait [19:44] <Islwyn13> ah, ok [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not accurate - she was given clothes by Crouch [19:44] <Islwyn13> so, again, Narcissa was easier to get to [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Dobby got her in to Hogwarts [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sort of [19:45] <Islwyn13> yeah, I think he brought her there [19:45] <mugglemom4> Kreacher seems particular, maybe she was his favorite [19:45] <Alachine> yes. She works thewre now, as a free elf [19:45] <Alachine> kind of [19:45] <Islwyn13> well, she drinks there, anyway smile [19:45] <Professor_Nigellus> Winky is a free elf. She came to Hogwarts with Dolby [19:45] <fawkes28> very true [19:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL Isl [19:45] <LordValerius> lol [19:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> poor poor Winky [19:45] <Islwyn13> she still has clothes, though, she hasn't been transferred to DD's ownership, I don't htink [19:45] <Alachine> aye, my good dear. Poor winky [19:45] <Pleshette> Freed against her will [19:45] <LordValerius> sad [19:45] <Alachine> she has no owner [19:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm surprised that she hasn't died from grief [19:45] *** accio_brain has quit [Bye] [19:46] <mugglemom4> She was oh too devoted to crouch Jr [19:46] <veelaqueen> but like after a house-elve gets shack,it just lives by its own rules? [19:46] <Alachine> elves don't really know HOW to be free [19:46] <Islwyn13> or can be taken in by another family [19:46] <Islwyn13> I thought [19:46] <LordValerius> yeah, they can [19:46] <secretkeepertoall>  dobby does smile[19:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Correct Ala - they don't know another way of life but slavery and service [19:46] <Islwyn13> Isn't that what Winky was saying about Dobby? that he couldn't find a family because he wanted to be paid, not transfer into their ownership? [19:46] <Alachine> I think that a free elf can only be taken by a family by choice [19:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - S/K/T/A [19:46] <secretkeepertoall> yes [19:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but Dobby is somewhat unique [19:46] *** Synesthesia has quit [Bye] [19:46] <secretkeepertoall> true [19:47] <Islwyn13> Rebel Dobby... I love him! [19:47] <secretkeepertoall> very unique [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol [19:47] <Alachine> dobby is a more adaptable elf than most [19:47] <veelaqueen> but after an house elve is given clothes,what happens afterwards? [19:47] <Islwyn13> and even he has difficulty breaking with tradition [19:47] <secretkeepertoall> winky sure wasn't [19:47] <Alachine> they are free as you or I [19:47] <magicmeg8> This has been a great discussion you guys. Just wanted to let you know that we have about 15 minutes left smile [19:47] <Islwyn13> they look for another family, and become their property, I believe, Val [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - Ala - he is - but I think he visits Harry for a couple of reasons [19:47] <Islwyn13> sorry, Veela smile [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> 1. His conscience [19:48] <Val_Halla> I think Winky didn't go to another family because she is still in denial about being dismissed [19:48] <secretkeepertoall> would you consider Kreacher normal? smile [19:48] <SoonerGryffindor> This chat has been really great and I got a couple of ideas for potential theories that I really want to mull over [19:48] <Islwyn13> agreed, Val [19:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> 2. Somewhat self-serving and/or looking out for his fellows because of fear out of a return of LV [19:48] <Islwyn13> No, Kreacher is sick in the head [19:48] <magicmeg8> (GFAB -- can you check the top of your screen?) [19:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> kk [19:48] <secretkeepertoall> so this chat is almost over sad [19:48] <Islwyn13> you would be too, if you had Mrs. Black's portrait screaming at you and brainwashing you for 10 years [19:49] <Alachine> yes. Imagine taking orders from a picture [19:49] <fawkes28> maybe harry can convince them to form an army against LV and help - they would definitely be underestimated [19:49] <Alachine> poor soul [19:49] <mugglemom4> I think it is interesting how each of the house elves have their own personalities and though they serve and work for thier masters, they do it differently, some find loopholes, others worship, etc. [19:49] <Val_Halla> I think Kreacher is normal in that he adored his mistress and tried to serve her wishes even after her death [19:49] <Islwyn13> that's true, Val [19:49] <secretkeepertoall> how do u know his mistress adored him [19:49] <Islwyn13> no, no, Kreacher adored HER [19:49] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [19:49] <Alachine> no, no. He adored her. [19:50] <secretkeepertoall> oh [19:50] <Islwyn13> no idea how she felt for him [19:50] <Alachine> woah [19:50] <Val_Halla> I'm sure she didn't adore him [19:50] <Islwyn13> given her portrait's personality, I'd say she was crazy, too [19:50] <Pleshette> Like the Malfoys [19:50] <secretkeepertoall> that would be interesting to learn [19:50] <fawkes28> probably treated him horribly [19:50] <Alachine> I'd say she was just predjudiced [19:50] <secretkeepertoall> yes probally [19:50] <Alachine> extremely so [19:50] <LordValerius> like a dog [19:50] <Islwyn13> I thikn she went beyond that [19:50] <Islwyn13> what with the raging and all [19:50] <fawkes28> i would love to see a memory of her [19:50] <Pleshette> and disowning family members [19:50] <Alachine> well her son, as she saw it, betrayed her [19:50] <Islwyn13> of course, that could just be the portrait, reflecting an exaggerated form of her personality [19:50] <Alachine> that would drive anyone mad [19:51] <magicmeg8> I wouldn't think that Mrs. Black adored Kreature. I think he admired her, and thus accepted her as a "good person" [19:51] <Val_Halla> Well, portraits are not fully realized versions of their original [19:51] *** secretkeepertoall has quit [Bye] [19:51] <magicmeg8> Good point, Val [19:51] <Alachine> right [19:51] <LJ> There’s 10 mins left guys. The transcript of this chat will be available shortly. It will be posted in our new Corner Booth Forum: http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html There is also a poll there where you can vote on next weeks Wize Wizaed Chat: http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry869326 [19:51] <Islwyn13> yeah, she's too into the whole "pure-blood or death" thinking, and he wasn't even human [19:51] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [19:51] <Alachine> well I must be off [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Thanks LJ - check yourse [19:51] <Alachine> fare thee well [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yours* [19:51] <Pleshette> Great chat everyone, gotta go Bye smile [19:52] <Islwyn13> Later, Ala smile [19:52] <Val_Halla> Kreacher would probably sonn have been beheaded as he was getting a bit decrepit [19:52] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bye P and A [19:52] *** Alachine left #lounge [] [19:52] <Islwyn13> Dont' thikn Sirius would have beheaded him... [19:52] <Islwyn13> Too dark a thing to do [19:52] <mugglemom4> loved the chat! Bye! [19:52] <Val_Halla> Mrs Black would have [19:52] <fawkes28> lol i wonder why he didnt [19:52] *** veelaqueen has quit [Bye] [19:52] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [19:53] <Islwyn13> yes, but she's already dead...or do you mean, had she not died, she probably would have beheaded him? [19:53] <Val_Halla> Yes, that's what I mean [19:53] <Islwyn13> Bye, Mugglemom smile [19:53] <LordValerius> when he got old [19:53] <SoonerGryffindor> gotta go...bye everyone [19:53] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sorry - jumping in to the Kreacher beheading a bit late - I think old lady black would have done [19:53] *** Professor_Nigellus has quit [Bye] [19:53] <Islwyn13> Possibly...then who would have taken his place? [19:53] <LordValerius> got to go [19:53] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bye S/G [19:53] *** SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [19:53] <Islwyn13> oh, she definitely would have done, I agree smile [19:54] <Islwyn13> Bye, SG smile [19:54] *** LordValerius left #lounge [] [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> ...and delighted in it no doubt  [19:54] <Islwyn13> LOL, agreed! [19:54] <fawkes28> i wonder if he will be beheaded in book 7 [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> mad old cow [19:54] <Islwyn13> Wicked woman that she was [19:54] <Islwyn13> I dont' think so...who would behead him? [19:54] *** mprater306 has joined #lounge [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sorry - that was not nice - I didn't even know her smile [19:55] <Islwyn13> but, from what we've seen and heard about her... [19:55] <Val_Halla> I do think Kreacher will die, though. [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes, Val - I agree [19:55] <Islwyn13> what with her propensity for burning holes in her family tree tapestry when anyone did something she didn't agree with [19:55] <Islwyn13> not exactly a strong family woman, was she? [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I don't know about anyone else, but I can't help but pity him, regardless of how evil he seems [19:55] <Islwyn13> Right, and I'm off! Thanks for the talk, everyone! [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bye Isl [19:55] <Val_Halla> bye all [19:55] *** Scaedura has joined #lounge [19:56] *** Scaedura has quit [Bye] [19:56] <fawkes28> see you all later [19:56] <Islwyn13> AGreed, Ginny, he's a product of his environment, almost certainly [19:56] *** mprater306 left #lounge [] [19:56] *** Val_Halla left #lounge [] [19:56] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye] [19:56] *** Islwyn13 left #lounge [] -------------------- |
|
|
|
