ReadingGroup Corner Booth Transcript: Apr 21, 2007, Order of the Phoenix chapters 13-14 |
 Apr 21 2007, 02:48 PM
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Total Eclipse of the Elf  Posts: 2,102 Joined: 4:47pm July 3, 2005 Location: Kansas City  |
Today's chat was moderated by: Aislinn, cloudpic, Expelliarmas, futureweasley, Mr. McGonagall, and Poet
[12:00] <Poet> Hi MrMcGonagall [12:00] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, Poet! [12:01] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [12:01] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [12:02] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [12:02] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [12:02] <Expelliarmas> heya, Jane [12:02] <Poet> Hi Jane [12:02] <JaneMarple9> hello all smile [12:02] <Aislinn> Hi Jane [12:02] *** huebbe has joined #lounge [12:02] *** bemused has joined #lounge [12:03] <huebbe> hello all [12:03] <JaneMarple9> hi bemused and hi huebbe [12:03] *** Questauthor has joined #lounge [12:03] <Questauthor> Hello all! [12:03] <bemused> Hello! [12:03] <huebbe> is everyone sunny or rainy? [12:03] <Aislinn> hi smile [12:03] <Poet> Sunny I think [12:03] <Aislinn> beautiful day here today, finally [12:03] <JaneMarple9> sunny but cool smile [12:04] <Questauthor> It was raining but now the sun is coming out. Gotta love the desert [12:04] <bemused> Sunny here - it's been a beautiful day [12:04] <Expelliarmas> It's wonderfully warm and sunny here [12:04] <huebbe> ooooo we are overcast and rainy [12:04] <bemused> bad luck, huebbe! [12:04] <Expelliarmas> but then, that's pretty normal here [12:04] *** Questauthor has quit [Bye] [12:04] <huebbe> i know, i think it hit us last [12:05] <huebbe> I never said congrats MrM for your fabulous hiku! [12:06] <Aislinn> has everyone been following the pictures that are being released from the OotP movie? [12:06] *** Questauthor has joined #lounge [12:06] <Questauthor> And I'm back [12:06] <Aislinn> Yes, that was a wonderful haiku, wasn't it? [12:06] <huebbe> it really was [12:06] <JaneMarple9> they are looking good yes Aislinn [12:06] <Aislinn> welcome backc, Questauthor [12:06] <bemused> 'Frosting on an evil soul'... that was a magical line, Mr M [12:06] <Expelliarmas> not me, Aislinn. I don't want any spoilage [12:06] <Aislinn> yes, Jane, they're making me more excited for the movie all the time [12:06] <JaneMarple9> i really like the way Luna is looking [12:06] *** phoenix42 has joined #lounge [12:06] <huebbe> i haven't either.... [12:06] <Aislinn> really, Expie? [12:06] <Poet> I've started to avoid looking at all of the new ones. I'm hoping to leave some surprises, though I've already spoiled myself considerably [12:07] <Aislinn> I don't view it as spoilers, as I already know the story smile [12:07] <huebbe> good point! [12:07] <Expelliarmas> no, Aislinn, I've resigned myself to another disappointing movie. Why have it spoiled? [12:07] <Poet> Well costumes and set dressings - that sort of thing [12:07] <phoenix42> hi everyone [12:07] <huebbe> lol! [12:07] <Aislinn> hi phoenix42 [12:07] <bemused> I haven't seen any film pictures for ages - where should I have been looking? [12:07] <JaneMarple9> yes we know the story...sirius dies sad [12:07] <Expelliarmas> welcome back, phoenix42 [12:07] <Aislinn> they are in the Galleries, bemused [12:07] <huebbe> I will be happy when DD dies in the movies [12:08] <phoenix42> thanks, what are we discussing, the movies [12:08] <Poet> oh [12:08] <Questauthor> The actor or the character? [12:08] <bemused> happy?? [12:08] *** MrMcGonagall left #lounge [] [12:08] <Aislinn> wonderful pictures of the kids at the DoM, the Weasley kids in Dd's office - great stuff [12:08] <Expelliarmas> I think I'll be quite sad at Dumbledore's death [12:08] <huebbe> yeah, I cant' stand the actor [12:08] <Questauthor> ah. gotcha. I'm not wild about eh actor either [12:08] <huebbe> the character, on the other hand i adore [12:08] <bemused> Oh, I see... [12:08] <Aislinn> I think some of his poor performance in the last movie was due to really poor direction [12:08] <huebbe> i hope so [12:08] <Aislinn> I'm hoping it will be a bit better this time around [12:09] <bemused> He's normally a good actor, in other things [12:09] <Questauthor> Just wish the wardrobe was more what I think DD should be [12:09] <phoenix42> maybe gambon will do a better job this time. Perhaps one more chance [12:09] <Poet> As long as his fingernails are normal length I'll be happy [12:09] <Aislinn> yes, Questauthor - I hate the polyester pajamas they stick him in! [12:09] <huebbe> i just really want to become more DD and less "grateful dead" / Jerry Garcia in wizard robes [12:09] <Expelliarmas> he's not tall enough to have the DD warddrobe [12:09] <Aislinn> he is supposed to be wearing magnificent robes, with stars and such on them [12:10] <huebbe> yes, not his PJ's [12:10] <Questauthor> Its the gray stuff that I hate [12:10] <Poet> hear hear [12:10] <Questauthor> DD is not into gray. He's more flamboyant than that [12:10] <Expelliarmas> yes, purples and deep blues for DD [12:10] <Aislinn> yes - royal blue,, deep purple, more that kind of thing [12:10] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [12:10] <Aislinn> hi Pleshette [12:10] <JaneMarple9> gambon does protray dumbledore as more "cool" [12:10] <Pleshette> Hi everyone! [12:10] <bemused> Hello, Pleshette! [12:10] <huebbe> the first two movies the wardrobe was amazing [12:10] <Expelliarmas> I think he portrays DD as more of an emotional hothead [12:10] <huebbe> hi pleshette [12:11] <Aislinn> much more what I envision, huebbe, yes [12:11] <huebbe> i agree expi [12:11] * Pleshette hope she doesn't get booted for liking Gambon [12:11] <JaneMarple9> I would prefer him to act more in character but I am sure he will do well in film six [12:11] <huebbe> no booting here [12:11] <Questauthor> Expie you hit it dead on [12:11] <Pleshette> heh heh, thanks huebbe [12:11] <Aislinn> I am really optimistic about Yates's direction [12:11] <Aislinn> I think it will help a lot [12:11] <Expelliarmas> I'd like gambon better in some other role [12:11] *** SevenofNine has joined #lounge [12:11] <huebbe> yes, please make him compassionate and wise again [12:12] <Aislinn> hi 7 [12:12] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [12:12] <SevenofNine> Greetings! [12:12] <Aislinn> hi MafaldaWeasley [12:12] <JaneMarple9> hi 7of9 [12:12] <Expelliarmas> heya 7 [12:12] <Poet> woot [12:12] <Expelliarmas> hello Mafalda [12:12] <huebbe> hi 7 and mafa [12:12] <MafaldaWeasley> hi everybody [12:12] <Pleshette> Hello Seven and Mafalda! [12:13] <MafaldaWeasley> do we have a question? [12:13] <JaneMarple9> hi Mafalda! [12:13] <Expelliarmas> not yet,,Mafalda [12:13] <MafaldaWeasley> hello Pleshette and Jane [12:13] <SevenofNine> bye1 [12:13] <Aislinn> we were just talking about the pictures that have been released for the OotP movie, as we haven't started the chat yet [12:13] <Expelliarmas> we'll start in a few minutes [12:13] <MafaldaWeasley> uu those pics were very good [12:13] <MafaldaWeasley> tx expie. [12:13] <Pleshette> I haven't seen any of the more recent pics yet [12:13] <Aislinn> I agree, MafaldaWeasley - I reallly like them! [12:14] <SevenofNine> I must confess that I'm getting a bit excited about the new film--and trying not to be. [12:14] <Aislinn> there's a great shot of the Weasley kids in Dumbledore's office [12:14] <huebbe> me too 7 [12:14] <MafaldaWeasley> I think it will be a very good movie. I think Yates was so concerned with what he was doing. [12:14] <Pleshette> Oh yes! I did see that one Ais [12:14] <bemused> Cross fingers for a good film, then... [12:14] <Pleshette> It is good [12:14] <Aislinn> He seems more concerned with the emotions of the story than was true in the last movie [12:14] <SevenofNine> I don't want to have my expectations too high. Better to go in expecting to be disappointed and being pleasantly surprised. [12:14] <JaneMarple9> yes what i have seen of the pics etc it looks as if it is really going to stick to the book [12:14] <Pleshette> I really hope so...Me too Seven [12:15] <huebbe> in this movie DD really has to take Harry's yelling in stride, and I don't know if I see Gambon doing it [12:15] <JaneMarple9> No shrunken heads, I'm relieved to say! laugh [12:15] <Poet> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon. [12:15] <Poet> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to send you a private chat message. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the message that has been sent to you by that mod. [12:15] *** phoenix42 has quit [Ping timeout] [12:15] <Poet> You won't be able to reply to that message, but if you could just say something like "Poet, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [12:15] <Poet> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [12:15] <Poet> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [12:15] <Aislinn> In the Great Hall, Harry hears the loud whispers of classmates who hope to provoke him into shouting about what happened at the end of GoF. He didn’t know the spectators never saw Harry and Cedric disappear from the maze–the students only had Dumbledore’s word for what happened. Fred, George, and Lee are testing their stuff on a gaggle of first-year students. [12:15] <Aislinn> Hermione knits little hats for house-elves. She plans on leaving them about under bits of rubbish so the elves will find them and be freed in spite of their wishes. After Hermione retires, Ron takes the trash off the hats. Grubbly-Plank won’t say where Hagrid might be–but Malfoy knows. Luna and Ernie publicly proclaim their support of Harry. [12:16] <Aislinn> At detention, Harry enters The Toad’s office and finds *it* sitting there. The Toad hands him a special quill of its own. He must write “I must not tell lies” until the message sinks in. He takes the quill in hand and writes, he looks down on the paper and finds in his own blood the words he wrote. The words are on the back of his own writing hand. [12:16] <Aislinn> The final day of detention was just as gloomy. The cut does not heal well–blood drips down his wrist. The Toad takes Harry’s hand in its and his scar sears with pain. The Toad smiles and dismisses him. Back at the Common Room, he finds a celebration. Ron is the new Keeper. Hermione doesn’t think the Toad was being controlled by Voldemort. [12:16] <Aislinn> Harry writes to Sirius as he leaves the Owlery, he meets Cho (the Hosepipe). Cho believes him and thinks he is brave, and then lies to Filch for him (aww!). At breakfast, he learns there is news Sirius is in London and Sturgis Podmore has been sentenced to Azkaban for attempting to break into the MoM. [12:16] <Aislinn> At Quidditch practice they have Slytherin company. Ron is unnerved by it. Katie Bell faints from lack of blood due to one of the twins’ magic chews. Practice ends early. Harry and Ron work on their essays. Ron gets a letter from Percy who toots his own horn, bad-mouths Harry, gives hints that Dumbledore may be leaving, reiterates that he hates most of the family, and calls Dolores Umbridge “delightful.” Obviously, Percy is dr [12:17] <Aislinn> Sirius appears in the fire and tells the Trio not to worry too much about Harry’s scar hurting, and that Dolores, while entirely heinous, is probably no Death Eater. Umbridge is only teaching theory because the MoM is afraid to have Harry “trained in combat.” As he goes away, Sirius becomes cranky and annoyed that Harry and Hermione do not want him found out. [12:17] <Aislinn> Thanks to Room 18–The Atrium and Chamber 29 for the introduction. All caught up? Good, let’s chat about Chapters 13 and 14. [12:17] <Aislinn> Where did Dolores pick up that nasty quill? [12:17] <SevenofNine> Knockturn Alley would be my guess [12:17] <Poet> Knockturn Alley [12:17] <huebbe> same here [12:17] <SevenofNine> Ha! Brilliant minds, Poet [12:17] <JaneMarple9> never thought of where [12:18] <Expelliarmas> I doubt there's a mail-order service which offers such miserable items [12:18] <JaneMarple9> but knockturn alley seems obvious [12:18] <MafaldaWeasley> maybe she has a dungeon like Malfoy's [12:18] <Pleshette> that seems likely, Knockturn alley [12:18] <huebbe> same place Rita got her quick quills? [12:18] <Aislinn> yeah, it seems something appropriate for that dark magic area [12:18] <huebbe> they are both nasty [12:18] <bemused> She might have invented it herself, tho' she doesn't seem very good at magic [12:18] <JaneMarple9> hmmm maybe huebbe [12:18] <Poet> Or maybe it was a Ministry item that's been sitting around for ages - confiscated and highly nasty artifacts.... [12:18] <MafaldaWeasley> good idea Poet [12:18] <JaneMarple9> there is a quill place in hogsmeade isn't there? [12:18] <huebbe> ooo yes poet [12:18] <bemused> It must have been specially for teaching... [12:18] <Questauthor> I could see her making it [12:19] *** Kneazly has joined #lounge [12:19] <Poet> oh yea - Scrivenshafts I believe [12:19] <JaneMarple9> scrivencrafts isn't it? [12:19] <huebbe> sort of like Borgin and Burkes? [12:19] <Pleshette> Perhaps Lucius Malfoy gave it to her from his secret stash of Dark objects [12:19] <SevenofNine> I can't see that quill being for sale in a regular store, though. [12:19] <Pleshette> Hey Kneazly! [12:19] <bemused> The Minister's secretary wouldn't need a thing like that - or would she? [12:19] <Kneazly> Hi everyone! [12:19] <Expelliarmas> I doubt that quill place in Hogsmeade would carry something like that. Is there a "knockturn" type place in Hogsmeade, maybe there [12:19] <MafaldaWeasley> hello! [12:19] <huebbe> hi kneazly [12:19] <JaneMarple9> no can't see lucius being kind pleshette! [12:19] <bemused> Hello, Kneazly [12:19] <Aislinn> me either, 7 - it seems too dark an object to be sold in the average magic store [12:19] <Aislinn> If the quill was an example of Dark Magic, how did it get into the castle? [12:19] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [12:19] <Questauthor> Maybe she inherited it [12:19] <Pleshette> I don't think it would be to be kind, Jane [12:20] <SevenofNine> Good question. [12:20] <Pleshette> Not if he knew she was intending to use it on Harry [12:20] <Expelliarmas> Maybe the teachers aren't searched for dark magic items [12:20] <bemused> Maybe teachers aren't checked [12:20] *** phoenix42 has joined #lounge [12:20] <Expelliarmas> Or maybe, because she is the DADA *teacher* she's allowed to have such a thing [12:20] <Pleshette> Hi phoenix42! [12:20] <SevenofNine> Tha's what I was thinking bemused. [12:20] <Poet> There are all sorts of odd stuff in DADA classes usually [12:20] <SevenofNine> Hi phoenix [12:20] <phoenix42> okay, I hope I got the computer worked out to make this work now [12:20] <MafaldaWeasley> I don't think Malfoy would give somebody proof that he was a DE back then, Pleshette. [12:20] <Expelliarmas> I recall Lupin took delivery of dark creatures [12:20] <huebbe> that is what I was thinking Expie [12:20] <Aislinn> I don't think they started getting really security conscious about dark objects until after OotP [12:21] <huebbe> DADA teachers are allowed more le-way [12:21] <SevenofNine> I think that's an excellent idea about the stuff being thought to go with the teaching material [12:21] <MafaldaWeasley> yeah, Expei. I think she would have this kind of priviledge [12:21] <Pleshette> DD knew about the diary that he gave Ginny [12:21] <Expelliarmas> well, dark magic information is restricted in the library [12:21] <Expelliarmas> I doubt kids would be allowed such items [12:21] <Questauthor> But this is a personal belonging [12:21] <Aislinn> What does it say about Dolores that she was willing to use that quill on a student? [12:21] <Poet> A pen that takes ink from elsewhere isn't dark - I guess it's how you use it - similar how many things can be misused [12:21] <SevenofNine> And protections increased after CoS [12:21] <Questauthor> Not necessarily a teaching or school object [12:21] <MafaldaWeasley> he knew obviously, but had no way to proof it [12:21] <Pleshette> This could have been a "back room" deal between Lucius and Dolores [12:21] <bemused> It says she's foul! [12:21] <SevenofNine> She's vile. [12:22] <Expelliarmas> It says an awful lot about what a miserable toad it really is [12:22] <Poet> Really terrifying. It shows her true colors at the start [12:22] <Aislinn> the pen cuts into the user's hand, poet - that's very dark [12:22] <bemused> Totally unfit to teach [12:22] <Pleshette> Exactly [12:22] <SevenofNine> Personally, that scene with the quill is almost as bad a Wormtail cutting off his hand. [12:22] <Aislinn> yes, bemused, I agree [12:22] <Expelliarmas> The pen doesn't use ink, it uses the writer's blood [12:22] <SevenofNine> I was horrified. [12:22] <MafaldaWeasley> mmmm test [12:22] <Pleshette> She'll go to extreme measures to punish those who dare go against her views [12:22] <Poet> I'm thinking its a modified, unique item [12:22] <SevenofNine> And to use it on a kid . . . [12:22] <Questauthor> I think a lot of people were, Seven [12:22] <Expelliarmas> we see you mafalda [12:23] <MafaldaWeasley> txs Expie. I was having a bad lag [12:23] <Aislinn> To me, it shows that she has no sense of morals or ethics if she feels that torturing and maiming students is an acceptable means of punishment [12:23] <Kneazly> Morally it is disgusting--ends justinfying means in her opinion. [12:23] <Pleshette> I agree Aislinn [12:23] <phoenix42> it is interesting how she didn't care who went against her, she still used the pen [12:23] <SevenofNine> Absolutely [12:23] <Expelliarmas> I couldn't believe such a thing would be allowed for use against a student [12:23] <bemused> Yes - me too [12:23] <MafaldaWeasley> to me it shows she makes "muuuuuuuu" before spkeaking [12:23] *** LilyFlower has joined #lounge [12:23] <JaneMarple9> it shows how evil she is [12:23] <Pleshette> Hi LilyFlower! [12:23] <huebbe> i believe she is a spy for the "dark side" [12:23] <Poet> She certainly isn't above breaking rules for her own supposedly "lofty" goals [12:23] <Expelliarmas> I think she enjoys the infliction of pain [12:23] <LilyFlower> Hi everyone! [12:23] <Questauthor> I still maintain that if someone had told DD about the quill, he would have done something [12:23] <MafaldaWeasley> I think she is just mean [12:23] <SevenofNine> And it just goes to show that sometimes the "good" guys really all that good. [12:24] <huebbe> she doesn't have one once of kindness in her [12:24] <Questauthor> even if it was to hex it [12:24] <Aislinn> that's true, poet [12:24] <SevenofNine> They just happen to be ona certain side. [12:24] <Kneazly> Yes expie--she was eaget to try the Crucio curse later [12:24] <bemused> I think you're right, Expie [12:24] <Expelliarmas> heya, lily [12:24] <Aislinn> Look at the Toad’s office. Why does it try so hard to make it “feminine”? [12:24] <phoenix42> hi lilyflower, I don't think she's on the darkside, I think she has her own agenda and if people end up liking it she will take credit, if not she keeps quiet [12:24] <Expelliarmas> The Toad gets a sense of excitement before inflicting pain [12:24] <Questauthor> It's a direct contrast to her character [12:24] <SevenofNine> She probably knows she looks like a toad. [12:24] <huebbe> because it is a red herring [12:24] <Questauthor> Overcompensation [12:24] <SevenofNine> Perhaps it's to lull people [12:24] <LilyFlower> To make people think she's nice [12:24] <bemused> That spurious femininity is the cloak she hides behind [12:24] <Expelliarmas> The Toad is not at all feminine, maybe it's trying to fool people [12:25] <Poet> Hmmm. I think she wants to seem soft so she's unsuspected - yes to lull people [12:25] <Aislinn> it is such an effective contrast - this person who is putting on a face of supposed girlish innocence, yet hiding such a hideous core [12:25] <JaneMarple9> yes 7 [12:25] <SevenofNine> Make them think she's soft [12:25] <JaneMarple9> exactly [12:25] <huebbe> she wants to believe she is sweet when she's not, it'l like little red riding hood [12:25] <Kneazly> It's like her pink cardigan--a sugar coating on something evil [12:25] <Pleshette> It's a phony attempt to create the illlusion that she is nice and sweet [12:25] <MafaldaWeasley> because maybe she is trying to impressed [12:25] <huebbe> wolf in sheep's clothing [12:25] <LilyFlower> Don't you know pink has mind controling power? [12:25] <MafaldaWeasley> yes Pleshette [12:25] <Questauthor> The kittens are really her spies [12:25] <SevenofNine> Pink is supposed to be calming. [12:25] <Pleshette> Right huebbe [12:25] <Expelliarmas> good point, Kneazly [12:25] <SevenofNine> They use it a lot in emergency rooms in some hospitals [12:25] <Expelliarmas> pink is also the color of pepto bismal ... [12:26] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [12:26] <huebbe> lol [12:26] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [12:26] <SevenofNine> laugh [12:26] <Pleshette> LOL [12:26] <MafaldaWeasley> hahaha expie [12:26] <LilyFlower> lol [12:26] <huebbe> makes you throw-up! [12:26] <LilyFlower> Now there's a canon! [12:26] <Poet> I think it shows that she knows herself very well. Somewhere inside she knows she's terrible and cruel and she's trying to put on a different face to hide it [12:26] <Questauthor> I agree, poet [12:26] <huebbe> exactly [12:26] <bemused> (I feel sorry for the kittens... they don't deserve her) [12:26] <MafaldaWeasley> Or she just has a bad tast for decor [12:26] <SevenofNine> She's someone who thinks the end justifies the means [12:26] <Questauthor> She hides behind this persona that is supposed to reflect niceness [12:27] <huebbe> reminds me of a stuffy old women's house [12:27] <Aislinn> Jo keeps describing Dolores in terms of being a toad. Why? [12:27] <LilyFlower> I don't think she's knowns she's doing wrong, I think she thinks she is make the world good [12:27] <SevenofNine> Ooooo, perhaps I shouldn't use pink font color. [12:27] <JaneMarple9> because she is! [12:27] <LilyFlower> Because that what she is [12:27] <MafaldaWeasley> because she is ugly [12:27] <huebbe> like the princess and the toad only in reverse? [12:27] <Questauthor> It's ok Seven. We know you aren't bad! [12:27] <Poet> I like that huebbe [12:27] <Expelliarmas> Because the description fits--she's a toad and a toady [12:27] <bemused> It's that idea of something large, slow-moving and rather replusive, waiting to trap its prey [12:27] <JaneMarple9> or it is foreshadowing for Trevor the Toad in book 7??? smile [12:27] <SevenofNine> laugh Thanks! Is it because toads can be sneaky with those tongues? [12:27] <Kneazly> A toady to Fudge I think--she likes power, but she likes being able to do things for him [12:27] <bemused> (with apologies to any toad-lovers [12:27] <huebbe> ahh i always liked trevor and thought he was DD [12:28] <SevenofNine> They sit there quietly and suddenly that tongue comes out and you're dead? [12:28] <Poet> It's a very clear image. It also helps us and Harry remember her from the Ministry trial [12:28] <Aislinn> I think you're right, bemused [12:28] <Questauthor> that's a good one, huebbe! [12:28] <Pleshette> Yes Seven, that's what I think of too [12:28] <LilyFlower> Well toads are sliping and she does get away with alot [12:28] <Expelliarmas> Let's see, slimy, not something most folks want to touch [12:28] <Expelliarmas> and they enjoy a steady diet of flies [12:28] <JaneMarple9> I very much doubt trevor is nothing but a toad but it would be wonderful foreshadowing!! [12:28] <huebbe> and they are carnavors [12:28] *** phoenix42 has quit [Bye] [12:28] <SevenofNine> Yes, I'm hoping she comes into her own in the end. [12:28] <Questauthor> The myth of toads spreading warts... Umbridge wanting to spread the lies of the MoM [12:28] <Poet> So she likes to catch her prey (wink) [12:28] <bemused> Some have poison on their skin as well [12:28] <Pleshette> There's the myth that toads give warts to those who touch them isn't there? [12:29] <huebbe> or spread evil [12:29] <Questauthor> jinx, Pleshette! [12:29] <SevenofNine> Well, Umbridget is certainly a wart. [12:29] <Pleshette> Hah QA! [12:29] <JaneMarple9> i think so yes pleshette [12:29] <Expelliarmas> lol, 7 [12:29] <Questauthor> You owe me a coke, Plesh [12:29] <Pleshette> Lol [12:29] <Aislinn> Hermione did not think the Toad was being controlled by Voldemort. Is the Toad susceptible to becoming a Death Eater? If so, why? [12:29] <JaneMarple9> not sure [12:29] <huebbe> she enjoys pain so much [12:29] <Questauthor> I don't think so, she's too imersed in the MoM [12:29] <bemused> I doubt it - too intent on self-preservation [12:29] <huebbe> i mean giving it to others [12:30] <Kneazly> I think she's like Barty Crouch Sr, not a Death Eater, but horrid [12:30] <JaneMarple9> i was interested to see that harry's scar hurt when she touched him [12:30] <SevenofNine> I think anyone who's will to lower themselves to using evil's tools is susceptable [12:30] <Poet> I think she's susceptible because like other Voldemort supports she likes torture. I don't think she'll become a Death Eater though [12:30] <SevenofNine> (can't spell) [12:30] <Expelliarmas> I think the Toad completely agrees with LV though and would work for LV if she thought that was where the power was shifting [12:30] <MafaldaWeasley> No, she is too much on the law to become a DE. To become a DE she would have to open hands of her priviledges as one of the Minister's favorite peipple [12:30] <LilyFlower> Maybe if she thought she could get to Harry that way [12:30] <Questauthor> Too caught up in the MoM to understand right from wrong, but not so caught up that she'd think it was ok to follow Volde [12:30] <huebbe> yes [12:30] <Pleshette> I think she likes power too much to be a pawn for Voldemort..She wouldn't want to take orders from him [12:30] <huebbe> she could be swayed [12:30] <SevenofNine> She was really getting off on some of that stuff--like using Cruciatus on Harry. [12:30] <SevenofNine> I'll bet she loved the quill session with Harry [12:30] <Pleshette> She wants the Ministry under her thumb I think [12:30] <Aislinn> she likes her position of power within the ministry, but she has a set of principles(or lack) that is consistent with Voldemort's vile message [12:30] <LilyFlower> But now MoM know that Harry is right so I don't know [12:30] <Poet> She likes having power and she wouldn't have as much under Voldemort I imagine [12:30] <huebbe> i would like to see the two of them get into an argument [12:31] <Expelliarmas> The Toad shares LV's views on half-breeds and I'm sure she has a pureblood fetish as well [12:31] <SevenofNine> Yes, Exp [12:31] <bemused> and she called in the Dementors - I don't think Fudge would have approved that [12:31] <Kneazly> She's definitely twisted, but she's of the point of view that "the ministry is right because it's the minstry" [12:31] <JaneMarple9> she is similar to voldie [12:31] <LilyFlower> I think that would against Jk thought that there are people that are in the grey area [12:31] <JaneMarple9> has the same ideas [12:31] <Expelliarmas> The Toad is not above using whatever means to get power. She loves power and control. Very similar to LV. [12:31] <Poet> I agree Kneazly, she does things under the veil of the law [12:31] <SevenofNine> I imagine that she'd love to be LV's "favorite" if he could find a way to seduce her to the dark side. [12:31] <MafaldaWeasley> I think she is just full of prejudice and hate about things she doesn't know, but I think she over values the power she has and she wouldn't risk it by becoming a DE [12:31] <SevenofNine> She's already almost there [12:32] <JaneMarple9> seduce her? biggrin [12:32] <futureweasley> I think Umbridge has ethics...twisted and wrong as they are...I think she CAN differenciate between doing evil for her own twisted "good" means, and doing evil for evil's sake [12:32] <JaneMarple9> what a thought!! [12:32] <Kneazly> Aagh, Jane! [12:32] *** cbm has joined #lounge [12:32] <SevenofNine> Mentally seduce, Jane. laugh [12:32] <JaneMarple9> right smile [12:32] <MafaldaWeasley> hello future and cbm [12:32] <cbm> Hi everyone! [12:32] <Expelliarmas> I think she would sell out to the DEs if she thought it would give her a more elevated status. She wants prestige. [12:32] <LilyFlower> Hello! [12:32] <huebbe> hi cbm and future [12:32] <bemused> Yes, 7 - in a way she is a DE, though she doesn't know it [12:32] <cbm> what was the ? [12:33] <SevenofNine> Future, I think she could be twisted to believe whatever. [12:33] <Poet> I totally agree futureweasley about her having ethics. Percy has a bit of the same problem (without the same level of cruelty) [12:33] <huebbe> agree seven [12:33] <Questauthor> I think she wants prestige within the MoM, tho [12:33] <LilyFlower> Again I think it would go against what JK is saying about some people not being good or bad just in the middle [12:33] <MafaldaWeasley> Yes Poet I agree [12:33] <Questauthor> Not within the DEs [12:33] <SevenofNine> All LV would have to do was to convince her he wasn't really a bad guy. Just misunderstood. [12:33] <Expelliarmas> I think that makes the Toad worse than LV, future [12:33] <LilyFlower> I don't think she would go as far as to make 6 Horcruxes [12:34] <futureweasley> ah, now Expie...she's just a social climber...I don't see that as worse than LV [12:34] <cbm> I think she is acting for the DEs through this chain voldemort -> Malfoy -> Fudge -> the Toad! [12:34] <SevenofNine> Anybody who would send dementors after two kids, not thinking they could get rid of them, cannot have ethics that really mean anything. [12:34] <Expelliarmas> I don't believe the Toad is in the middle. The Toad is flat evil. [12:34] <huebbe> cbm if Umbidge could be a death eater [12:34] <SevenofNine> She's a closet DE and doesn't even know it. [12:34] <bemused> Yes, Poet - but Percy's a stickler for rules - Umbridge doesn't mind breaking them when it suits [12:34] <Questauthor> I think she'll be one of those who goes into the ground in DH [12:34] <huebbe> and why is called a toad [12:34] *** Aislinn has quit [Ping timeout] [12:34] <Poet> I like that thought SevenofNine [12:34] <Expelliarmas> What did it mean to Harry to have the support of Luna and Ernie? [12:34] <SevenofNine> A lot! [12:34] <futureweasley> everything [12:34] <Poet> it turned the tide for him [12:34] <huebbe> I think it was huge [12:34] <cbm> Ok, someone in my group came up with toady which means sycophant [12:34] <LilyFlower> That's there people outside that believe him [12:34] <JaneMarple9> it meant that some people believed in him! [12:35] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [12:35] <SevenofNine> I like the tide reference, Poet. Because it makes me think of mob mentality. [12:35] <futureweasley> he was so disheartened at that point...to have some support, no matter where it was from, was so important to Harry [12:35] <JaneMarple9> even if luna is rather looney smile [12:35] <Pleshette> and the fact that they're from other houses says a lot too [12:35] <Questauthor> I think they are opposite ends of the spectrum [12:35] <huebbe> he was being beaten down every where he looked, this solidified he was right [12:35] <Expelliarmas> It meant that folks outside of Gryffindor believed him, a hufflepuff and a ravenclaw [12:35] <LilyFlower> House united, Ravenclaws, Hufflepuffs and Gyrffindors [12:35] <Poet> Harry could sure use all the little victories he could get at this point [12:35] <SevenofNine> Yes, Pleshette [12:35] <LilyFlower> I love Luna and all Hufflepuffs Squee! [12:35] <huebbe> just like the hat said...lily [12:35] <Expelliarmas> It also confused Seamus a bit [12:35] <huebbe> good point [12:36] <SevenofNine> Poor Seamus. [12:36] <huebbe> i too adore Luna [12:36] <Questauthor> Seamus needs to learn to make his own decisions about things [12:36] <JaneMarple9> yes seamus has had a hard time so far roo [12:36] <Expelliarmas> And it shut up some of the other Gryffindors who thought Harry a nut [12:36] <Questauthor> He's spent years with Harry, in the same room. He should know for himself at this point that Harry is not a nutters [12:36] <Poet> Which we see happen at the end of the next book fortunately (Book 6) [12:36] <LilyFlower> Some of the Slytherins too [12:36] <MafaldaWeasley> I never liked Seamus oops did I say that out loud? [12:36] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [12:36] <huebbe> me either mafa [12:36] <Expelliarmas> heya, MrM [12:37] <SevenofNine> And it had to be hard for them to speak up as well. Another reasons I think Neville's got courage. [12:37] <futureweasley> poor Seamus my left eye [12:37] <Expelliarmas> Harry seemed to be having a personal war with the Toad. Why didn’t he yield to her? [12:37] <JaneMarple9> he needs to make his own choices and not go along with his mum's ideas [12:37] <MrMcGonagall> Woot! I'm back [12:37] <bemused> I think Seamus would have been willing to believe - he just needed Harry to meet him half way [12:37] <Questauthor> All Hail the Haiku winner! [12:37] <huebbe> he won't yield to anyone [12:37] <MrMcGonagall> Harry doesn't roll that way. [12:37] <bemused> ...and stop shouting! [12:37] <cbm> I think he wanted to prove he was tougher than her [12:37] <SevenofNine> It's not his nature, and he needs that strength. [12:37] <Poet> He didn't feel ike he had control over much, but he did over how he let her get to him [12:37] <Questauthor> Harry is stubborn [12:37] <Expelliarmas> I think it was the principle of the thing [12:37] <SevenofNine> It's like the trees on the coast. [12:37] <JaneMarple9> because he is trying to follow McGonagalls (Proffessor smile ) advice [12:37] <Questauthor> I was proud of him, to a certian point [12:37] <SevenofNine> The wind constantly blowing on them makes them stronger. [12:37] <Expelliarmas> I appreciated him taking the battle himself [12:37] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [12:37] <Questauthor> but when the teacher is cutting him open (literally) that crosses the line [12:37] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [12:37] <MafaldaWeasley> yes, Jane. Good point. [12:38] <Pleshette> He didn't want her to get the better of him, especially when he was telling the truth [12:38] <huebbe> he knew she was wrong and he is a LOYAL follower of DD [12:38] <LilyFlower> THe Toad was rude about Cedric and that was a soft spot for Harry at the time [12:38] <Questauthor> I think Harrry is used to relying on himself, too. To a fault [12:38] <futureweasley> Expie, Exactly! I am a big proponent of "principle"...so I totally relate to Harry in his "one man stand" approach to Umbridge [12:38] <SevenofNine> Yes, Questauthor, that was like blink [12:38] <cbm> But he still did not yeild after what was at least 20 hours of torture [12:38] <MrMcGonagall> It's a guy thing, basically. [12:38] <huebbe> lol [12:38] <SevenofNine> laugh MrMcG [12:38] <Pleshette> true Mr.McG [12:38] <Questauthor> You boys [12:38] <JaneMarple9> he is trying to remember Prof. McGonagall's warning about Umbridge and keep his mouth shut [12:39] <bemused> Hello, future, I didn't see you there... [12:39] <MafaldaWeasley> I think it was a way to show her he wouldn't break that easy [12:39] <LilyFlower> Because Harry was Capslock Harry and that Harry likes to fight [12:39] <futureweasley> hi bemused [12:39] <Pleshette> I agree Mafalda [12:39] <Kneazly> It's how any abuse is allowed to continue; with the victim not saying anything [12:39] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [12:39] <SevenofNine> Well, Harry's got a tough core. [12:39] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [12:39] <cbm> Prof, McG did not serve Harry very well by that warning at all [12:39] <Expelliarmas> Well, I think McGonagall never meant for Harry not to say what Umbridge was doing with that vile quill [12:39] <Questauthor> It's also an indicator of his character, and shows why he eventually agrees to lead the DADA defectors [12:39] <MrMcGonagall> No, I really see this as a contest of wills, and he's not going to show any weakness to the ugly toad woman. [12:39] <SevenofNine> How many times has he been faced with death and did it willingly? [12:39] <huebbe> Harry does what he is told by people he trusts.....not the one's he doesn't he is a gut responsive kind of guy [12:39] <SevenofNine> If he could do that would he surrender to a petty tyrant? [12:39] <Expelliarmas> She did want Harry to keep a low profile [12:39] <Pleshette> That's a good point Kneazly. Harry's had to endure a lot of abuse at the hands of the Dursleys [12:39] <Kneazly> Harry is certainly not weak-willed. [12:40] <Questauthor> Nobody puts Harry in the corner, right Expie? [12:40] <Expelliarmas> Ah, MrM, the Toad ain't no woman [12:40] <Aislinn> Why did Harry refuse to seek help from McGonagall or Dumbledore? [12:40] <LilyFlower> Lol [12:40] <MafaldaWeasley> haha Expie [12:40] <MrMcGonagall> He does have a stubborn streak, our Harry. [12:40] <Pleshette> Toad looks like a lady, Expie? [12:40] <SevenofNine> That would be a form of surrender, Aislinn [12:40] <cbm> Because he DD would not speak to him [12:40] <Poet> He's starting to do things for himself rather than running to others [12:40] <LilyFlower> Because he need to prove himself [12:40] <huebbe> he wanted to do it on his own, without having to aske for help...it's weak [12:40] <Questauthor> I think it goes to what we were talking about earlier [12:40] <Expelliarmas> The Toad ain't no lady [12:40] <bemused> He didn't want Umbridge to know she was getting to him [12:40] <MafaldaWeasley> Because he has a lot of pride and he was prooving to the Toad that he was a tough thing [12:40] <LilyFlower> He thought DD thought he was weak [12:40] <Aislinn> he has a streak of pride, and is used to relying on himself [12:40] <SevenofNine> Lady vs. woman, exp? [12:40] <cbm> It was the first magor mistake we saw him make in the series [12:41] <huebbe> typicall of a hormonial teen "I'll do it myself" [12:41] <SevenofNine> Or lady as in [12:41] <Kneazly> It's what Mr. McG said, the contest of wills--if he tells, he's somehow lost. Still a wrong choice, though [12:41] <SevenofNine> "lady"? [12:41] <Aislinn> He hasn't been able to count on adults around him for a long time, so it would not be in his nature to seek them out now. [12:41] <LilyFlower> Well DD was ignoring him at the time [12:41] <SevenofNine> I agree, Aislinn. [12:41] <Questauthor> I agree Aislinn. [12:41] <huebbe> yes lily [12:41] <Questauthor> He's had to rely on himself for so long [12:41] <SevenofNine> He's been raised to have to figure things out himself. [12:41] <bemused> there's also something humiliating about the punishment which he might not have wanted to admit to [12:41] <huebbe> good point [12:41] <MrMcGonagall> And I think Harry knows deep down that he's also responsible for losing his temper. [12:41] <Questauthor> But really, I can't imagine someone not telling Molly (like... Ginny?) [12:41] <Kneazly> Yes, Bemused [12:41] <SevenofNine> Good point, bemused. [12:42] <SevenofNine> It's like someone who's been abused not wanting to admit it to anyone. And this was certainly abuse. [12:42] <huebbe> this book is so emotional across the board [12:42] <LilyFlower> That he let it happen [12:42] <Aislinn> oh, I think he felt completely justified in losing his temper at the point of the first detention Mr M [12:42] <Questauthor> I can't get off my "someone should tell an adult" routine. I think it's because I drill it into my kids often enought! [12:42] <Aislinn> He was being accused of being a dirty little liar [12:42] <cbm> Beyond than aislinn, I think Dd put him in a position of being isolated [12:42] <MafaldaWeasley> Well, some parents would aprove that kind of punishment... [12:42] <MrMcGonagall> I think Harry wants to take his lumps and not give Umbridge the satisfaction of knowing she's gotten to him. [12:42] <Aislinn> I'd have been righteoulsy indignant about that as well [12:43] <Poet> It shows that Harry is growing into an adult and finding other ways to fight back - like with the DA [12:43] <SevenofNine> Yes. MrMcG [12:43] <huebbe> he was mad he had been alienated, and it is so typical to fight back [12:43] <MrMcGonagall> There's righteous indignation and then there's yelling at the top of your lungs in class, as McG pointed out to him. [12:43] <Aislinn> Had he sought help from McGonagall, what would have been McGonagall’s reaction? [12:43] <Kneazly> She would have "done her nut" [12:43] <bemused> Horror, I should think! [12:43] <Expelliarmas> I don't think McG could have done anything directly, but she would have found a way [12:43] <Questauthor> She'd be in the clink [12:43] <Pleshette> I think she would have gone straight to DD [12:43] <cbm> I think she would have helped him in some way [12:43] <SevenofNine> Well, it was pretty early in the year. I think something would have been done. [12:43] <huebbe> ooooo....I don't think I would have wanted to be in the same room [12:43] <Aislinn> I doubt the outcome would have been different, Mr M, had he stated it in a calm tone in class [12:43] <LilyFlower> She might has gotton fired or something [12:43] <futureweasley> she would have been completely abhauled [12:43] <MafaldaWeasley> Turned umbridge into a ferret and putting her into snape's pants? [12:43] <Questauthor> Umbridge would have gotten her fired [12:43] <Questauthor> lovely, Malfalda! [12:44] <futureweasley> I don't think so, QuestAuthor [12:44] <Aislinn> it was the truth he was telling that Umbridge was punishing [12:44] <MrMcGonagall> Oh, I don't think McG would have passed up the opportunity to reprimand Dolores. Great chance to exercise her authority as deputy headmistress. [12:44] <futureweasley> I think that even the Ministry would have been shocked at Umbridge's actions [12:44] <Questauthor> I think so, FW... I think if any of the teachers did something against Umbridge, she'd use her power [12:44] <JaneMarple9> agreed [12:44] <bemused> I think that's right, future [12:44] <Kneazly> I think DD could have done something--others in the ministry would have been horrified, just as they would have been horrified if they'd know Umbridge set the Dementors on him. [12:44] <Expelliarmas> I think the MoM would have made it seem like Harry was making up lies about Umbridge [12:44] <huebbe> more than likely Mrs. Mc would have followed the rules as she is apt to do, and told Harry to deal with it while she herself bit her lip and walked away [12:44] <Questauthor> Harry's a liar, why should the MoM believe Delores did that to him? [12:44] <Poet> It would have brought things to a head with DD and the Ministry too soon in the story I presume [12:44] <JaneMarple9> even fudge wouldn't approbve of dementors [12:44] <Questauthor> She'd say he did it to himself [12:44] <cbm> But would the ministry really approve of using a quill for 20 hours [12:44] <Aislinn> yes, future, we do see that when she makes these choices, she is doing it on her own authority, and not with the full knowledge of the Ministry [12:44] <MafaldaWeasley> ahh Huebbe, many would have approved that kind of behaviour [12:45] <bemused> I doubt Fudge would have gone along with that punishment [12:45] <futureweasley> he's got the physical proof! [12:45] <LilyFlower> then again MoM let Malfoy get away with murder so they would probly puch it uder the table [12:45] <huebbe> oh yes, but i really don't think Mrs. Mc would have [12:45] <Aislinn> What could Dumbledore have done had he known about the evil quill? [12:45] <Questauthor> but he could have done it himself... I think they've set Hary up all the way [12:45] <huebbe> she would know it was crue [12:45] <futureweasley> and about 30 student witnesses [12:45] <huebbe> l [12:45] <Expelliarmas> Harry has been portrayed as a nut in the media, the MoM would have said the injuries were self-inflicted and a cry for attention [12:45] <Questauthor> not about the quill tho [12:45] <cbm> I think he would have moved to stop it in some way [12:45] <MrMcGonagall> He could have ordered Umbridge to destroy it, or at least not use it as punishment any more. [12:45] <Aislinn> I think that Dumbledore could have made her stop - he was quick to stop her when she laid hands on that sneak later in the story [12:45] <bemused> He would aurely have stopped it - he wouldn't even let her shake Marietta [12:45] <Questauthor> I think DD was the only one who could stop it [12:45] <JaneMarple9> errr sack Umbridge? smile [12:45] <Kneazly> Yes, Aislinn/bemused [12:45] <MrMcGonagall> In fact, it may have been grounds for removing her from her post early on in the game. [12:45] <huebbe> wh would have told her to destroy it and find another means of punishment [12:46] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he would have it confiscated and then destroyed [12:46] <Expelliarmas> DD would have taken direct steps, he doesn't tolerate physical abuse of kids [12:46] <JaneMarple9> yes Mafalda [12:46] <SevenofNine> I think DD would have made her stop, but I don't think she would have left. [12:46] <LilyFlower> He doen't have th epower to sack her though [12:46] <Aislinn> do you think that the Ministry would have listened to anything against her? [12:46] <LilyFlower> No [12:46] <SevenofNine> It would have been interesting to see an article in the newspaper though about how the kids are being punished. [12:46] <Expelliarmas> No, Aislinn, I don't [12:46] <MafaldaWeasley> no, Aislinn, I doubt it [12:46] <cbm> Not at all Aislinn [12:46] <huebbe> no, he wouldn't have gotten rid of her [12:46] <SevenofNine> Wonder what the parents would have thought of that. [12:46] <Aislinn> I think that they would have rationalized it, in the interest of keeping their toady in power [12:46] <bemused> they couldn't have denied the physical evidence [12:46] <Questauthor> I don't think so, Aislinn [12:46] <JaneMarple9> harry should have let Prof. McGonagall know [12:46] <Kneazly> I don't think the MoM would let him sack her, but DD would have destroyed that quill [12:46] <huebbe> no [12:46] <Aislinn> I agree, kneazly [12:47] <futureweasley> sorry guys, I have to run. Great chat! [12:47] *** futureweasley left #lounge [] [12:47] <Aislinn> bye future [12:47] <huebbe> bye! [12:47] <Questauthor> Bye FW! [12:47] <cbm> bye [12:47] <Aislinn> Why was Harry so reluctant to share his problem with Ron and Hermione? [12:47] <JaneMarple9> because remember the way McGonagall reacted when Moody changed draco into a ferret [12:47] <Questauthor> I think that's the boy thing again [12:47] <huebbe> humiliation [12:47] <MafaldaWeasley> he has a little PRIDE issue [12:47] <Pleshette> Bye future [12:47] <SevenofNine> Didn't want their pitty [12:47] <SevenofNine> *pity [12:47] <bemused> I think he felt humiliated by it [12:47] <Expelliarmas> For the same reasons he wouldn't go to McG and DD, it was a battle of wills between him and the Toad [12:47] <JaneMarple9> he's a teenage boy smile [12:47] <Questauthor> And again, he felt it was personal [12:47] <huebbe> didn't want to listen to Hermonie "Harry, you HAVE to tell DD" [12:47] <Questauthor> mano-a-toado [12:48] <Pleshette> Yes, and he knew that they would be horrified and want him to tell someone [12:48] <SevenofNine> Made me wonder why Lee Jordan didn't say anything about the quill [12:48] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, he wasn't going to rely on the sympathy of his friends to get him through these difficult detentions. [12:48] <JaneMarple9> he knew they would believe him but he wanted to deal with it himself [12:48] <Poet> And Ron is a bit hot headed. I'm sure he didn't want them getting in trouble, but it did seem like a pride thing first and foremost [12:48] <Expelliarmas> Harry is also mistakenly feeling *alone* and resentful about being isolated. I think he wanted to prove he could do this himself. [12:48] <LilyFlower> Well Lee a boy too [12:48] <Kneazly> Yes huebe--he knew what their reactions would be, and he'd already decided against going to McG or Dd [12:48] <Aislinn> I think that's an excellent point, expie [12:48] <JaneMarple9> he is also cross with dumbeldore [12:48] <Expelliarmas> true, Jane [12:48] <SevenofNine> But Lee didn't have the same issues with Umbridge that Harry had. [12:48] <MafaldaWeasley> Yes Expie [12:48] <huebbe> a resentful teenager is a stubborn teenager [12:48] <Questauthor> By then, they'd started the DA, Right? [12:48] <MrMcGonagall> Telling his friends would have interfered with the "it's between me and her" attitude. [12:48] <JaneMarple9> doesn't want to hear hermione telling him to go to dumbledore [12:49] <SevenofNine> Right huebbe [12:49] <Expelliarmas> not at that point, Quest [12:49] <Pleshette> with Lee QuestA? [12:49] <Questauthor> With Lee, I mean [12:49] <Pleshette> yes [12:49] <Aislinn> yes, by then they had [12:49] <cbm> I wonder what lee did [12:49] <Questauthor> So by then it was a group Us Vs. Her [12:49] <SevenofNine> The Lee incident was almost the end of the year, I think, wasn't it? [12:49] <SevenofNine> Good point Quest [12:49] <Questauthor> I could see them being quiet about it. It was after the twins left, right? [12:49] <Expelliarmas> the Lee incident is later [12:49] <Aislinn> What made Harry’s scar sear with pain when the Toad touched him? [12:49] <JaneMarple9> who knows? [12:49] <Questauthor> ooooo. Evil intent? [12:49] <SevenofNine> LV [12:50] <Pleshette> He made a smart alec remark to Umbridge about one of her decrees cmb [12:50] <huebbe> because she is evil at heart [12:50] <Kneazly> Coincidence, sth LV was feeling. [12:50] <Poet> It was coincidence meant to throw us off, I think [12:50] <Aislinn> yes, seven - it was the connection with LV [12:50] <MafaldaWeasley> some satisfation LV had with his suffering? [12:50] <SevenofNine> Just happened at a time when the Toad touched Harry [12:50] <cbm> I agree poet [12:50] <JaneMarple9> I have wondered if it was to do with the blood letting [12:50] <bemused> It was never really explained what LV was doing at the time - was it? [12:50] <JaneMarple9> the way harry's hand bled [12:50] <Pleshette> I agree that is a coincidence too [12:50] <Aislinn> right, it was just a coincidence [12:50] <Poet> voldemort was happy I believe [12:50] <LilyFlower> Maybe Harry what emotion at the time and it hurt LV too [12:50] <Expelliarmas> I don't think we get coincidences in Potterverse [12:50] <JaneMarple9> because he gave blood to voldemort didn't he [12:50] <huebbe> just like Qurrell made his scar hurt by looking at him (diregarding the turban) [12:50] <Kneazly> No, I don't think that one was explained, bemused. [12:50] <MafaldaWeasley> me neither [12:50] <Questauthor> True, Expie [12:50] <SevenofNine> No, but it was also early in the book, bemused, so Harry hadn't really made the connection yet. [12:50] <MrMcGonagall> I think LV was frustrated that he was getting nowhere with the Dept. of Mysteries. [12:51] <SevenofNine> Methinks [12:51] <JaneMarple9> perhaps mr mcg. [12:51] <Pleshette> Does that coincide with Sturgis being caught? [12:51] <LilyFlower> Something to do with the blood [12:51] <MrMcGonagall> No [12:51] <MrMcGonagall> Sturgis was earlier [12:51] <Questauthor> That's an interesting theory, Lily Flower [12:51] <cbm> I think we rarely get coincidences, but I think the pain was there to make us think she is a DE [12:51] <Kneazly> Sturgis was sentenced about that time, but caught earlier [12:51] <cbm> podmore was 8/31 [12:51] <LilyFlower> thank you [12:51] <Poet> We do find out later that it coincided with an event [12:51] <Aislinn> I think the fact that it happened then was meant to make us suspect her of something more sinister than her already sinister enough persona [12:51] <JaneMarple9> i am thinking more along the line of the blood too [12:51] <Pleshette> sorry, I'm mixed up, thanks guys [12:51] <Expelliarmas> The Toad was quite pleased with itself when it touched Harry's injured/bleeding hand [12:52] <Expelliarmas> that led to the searing scar pain [12:52] <huebbe> like quirrell [12:52] <SevenofNine> I think it's coincidence meant to confuse us. [12:52] <MafaldaWeasley> but why the blood would give harry pain and not umbridge? [12:52] <MrMcGonagall> I agree with cbm. Coincidence, but placed in the story to make us think it's more. [12:52] <Poet> I think it was Jo trying to trick us [12:52] <Aislinn> exactly [12:52] <Kneazly> Still, I think that pleased look and pain were meant by JKR to mislead us [12:52] <LilyFlower> Mr.Blood anyone? [12:52] <Aislinn> Did you consider it ethical of Fred and George to test their products on first-year students? [12:52] <SevenofNine> That tricksy Jo [12:52] <huebbe> yes, I dont' think it will come out later [12:52] <Kneazly> NO! [12:53] <huebbe> no [12:53] <Expelliarmas> That was siriusly unethical by them [12:53] <bemused> No - but typical of them [12:53] <Questauthor> Well, they tested it on themselves first [12:53] <MrMcGonagall> No. Bad Gred & Forge. Very bad. [12:53] <SevenofNine> No [12:53] <cbm> not really, but it is funny [12:53] <JaneMarple9> the blood links with voldie - harry gave voldie blood to come back alive in book 4 [12:53] <LilyFlower> well tested on them selves first [12:53] <huebbe> they should have tested it only on the Slytherians [12:53] <Questauthor> Not well done of them [12:53] <JaneMarple9> it was amusing smile [12:53] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [12:53] <Questauthor> good one, huebbe! [12:53] <Pleshette> lol huebbe [12:53] <SevenofNine> What is someone had had a terrible allergic reaction and died? [12:53] <Poet> I like to give Fred and George the benefit of the doubt [12:53] <Pleshette> Hi nympheart! [12:53] <Aislinn> they already had tested them, and were about to sell them to the same students, who subsequently happily bought them [12:53] <JaneMarple9> some nice comic value after umbridge [12:53] <nympheart> hello! [12:53] <huebbe> hi nymph [12:53] <Questauthor> I'd like to give F & G money so I could get a piece of their future action [12:53] <SevenofNine> I think they were naivie [12:53] <SevenofNine> *naive This post has been edited by Poet: Apr 21 2007, 02:53 PM |
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Apr 21 2007, 02:55 PM
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Total Eclipse of the Elf Posts: 2,102 Joined: 4:47pm July 3, 2005 Location: Kansas City |
[12:54] <Aislinn> The biggest problem i had with it was the fact that they didn't tell the kids what they were taking.
[12:54] <MrMcGonagall> It sounds like they had already tested it on themselves but needed more test subjects to see if results varied. [12:54] <JaneMarple9> and they had tried them on themrselves fist smile [12:54] <Questauthor> Yes, Aislin [12:54] <SevenofNine> Hii nymph [12:54] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, aislinn [12:54] <Pleshette> It reminds me of the ton tongue toffee incident with Dudley [12:54] <Questauthor> oh gosh, yes! [12:54] <bemused> Same sort of thing, Pleshette [12:54] <Kneazly> Yes, Aislinn--not telling them, not informed consent. [12:54] <JaneMarple9> that was their first big sucess! [12:54] <Pleshette> Something serious could have happened to one of them [12:54] <Poet> They have magic and a great hospital wing, so I think people (especially pure bloods) sometimes dont' find stuff like that as serious as we muggles do [12:54] <Aislinn> otherwise, I don't think it was all that bad, as they had in fact tested them already [12:54] <bemused> They always seem confident that nothing will go wrong [12:54] <SevenofNine> And given to minors [12:54] <bemused> and it doesn't seem to, either! [12:54] *** phoenix42 has joined #lounge [12:55] <JaneMarple9> Then again Madam Pomfey wasn't far away [12:55] <cbm> I think they learn their lesson in the next chapter [12:55] <huebbe> hi phoenix [12:55] <Aislinn> right, poet - it is something that could have been easily sorted out [12:55] <Pleshette> welcome back phoenix42 [12:55] <phoenix42> well, here's to hoping the computer works okay now [12:55] <Questauthor> O h man, can you imagine the rukus with DD if something HAD gone wrong? [12:55] <SevenofNine> Gotta run. It's been fun! [12:55] <LilyFlower> Hello [12:55] *** SevenofNine has quit [Bye] [12:55] <Poet> cheers [12:55] <Kneazly> Bye 7 [12:55] <Aislinn> i totally sympathize, phoenix42 - mine is acting up too [12:55] <nympheart> they would have tried to fix any problems themselves before going to Madam Pomfrey [12:55] <JaneMarple9> fred and george knew that pomfrey could recover the first years [12:55] <Aislinn> Why did they test on first-years? [12:55] <LilyFlower> Molly propably would of killed them [12:55] <Questauthor> gullible [12:56] <Pleshette> gullible] [12:56] <huebbe> fred and george are good at magic, and could have fixed it themselves [12:56] <bemused> Young, sweet and gullible [12:56] <Kneazly> Everyone else would be suspicious of them! [12:56] <MafaldaWeasley> I think they are confident that they can solve it all [12:56] <Questauthor> Not around long enough to be wary of the F&G [12:56] <nympheart> because first-years don't have enough sense to realize that it could be dangerous [12:56] <JaneMarple9> because they are new! [12:56] <huebbe> bingo [12:56] <Questauthor> Noooooooooobies [12:56] <MafaldaWeasley> yes nymph [12:56] <LilyFlower> Because they were the only one who didn't know F and G [12:56] <MrMcGonagall> The ickle firsties don't know the twins well enough. They were easily suckered. [12:56] <Poet> I blame Umbridge for the computer troubles (wink). I think they wanted some people who were small - as small as possible for the greatest difference in effect (from themselves) [12:56] <Aislinn> I think that's probably the most likely reason Mr M [12:56] <JaneMarple9> they don't know the legendery fred and george yet! [12:56] <Poet> And yes, they were suckers [12:56] <Aislinn> that's a good point, poet [12:57] <cbm> I like that, the 1st years would be more trusting of the 7th year f&g [12:57] <Pleshette> A way of fitting in with the older Gryffs [12:57] <huebbe> yes, they were the obvious choice [12:57] <Kneazly> Yet they go and try the nosebleed nougat later! [12:57] <JaneMarple9> they knew it would annoy hermione too [12:57] <Aislinn> that they wanted someone a different age and size than themselves [12:57] <bemused> 'these nice boys offered me a sweet'... [12:57] <MrMcGonagall> Not everyone is as suspicious as hermione [12:57] <Aislinn> to check out the vaiable effects [12:57] <Aislinn> variable [12:57] <Pleshette> I have to run, great chat everyone! [12:57] <huebbe> bye [12:57] <cbm> bye [12:57] *** phoenix42 has quit [Bye] [12:57] <Kneazly> Bye Pleshette [12:57] <bemused> Bye, Pleshette! [12:57] <LilyFlower> bye [12:57] <Poet> Younger students afterall will be buying many of their products in the future. [12:57] <Questauthor> I gotta go too. Later all! [12:57] <nympheart> bye pleshette [12:57] <Aislinn> bye pleshette [12:57] <Aislinn> and questauthor [12:57] <Kneazly> Bye QA [12:57] <LilyFlower> bye [12:57] <JaneMarple9> yes poet [12:57] <bemused> Bye, questauthor [12:57] <Aislinn> Fred and George angrily defied Hermione. Hermione had to threaten them with Molly. Why didn’t the twins accept Hermione’s authority? [12:57] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [12:57] <JaneMarple9> bye QA! [12:57] *** Questauthor has quit [Bye] [12:57] <huebbe> bye quest [12:58] <nympheart> I think it's because they know her too well and she's younger [12:58] <LilyFlower> They knew she wou;dn't have done it [12:58] <Kneazly> Because they don't respect prefects [12:58] <bemused> Because she's younger than them, and their brother's friend [12:58] <huebbe> whose authority do the accept? [12:58] <MafaldaWeasley> because they accpet none authority but DD [12:58] <cbm> I think any 5th year prefect would have problems with 7th year students [12:58] <Poet> Hermione is their younger brother's friend - too familiar I agree [12:58] <JaneMarple9> they don't like being bossed around by a younger person [12:58] <MafaldaWeasley> and Molly [12:58] <JaneMarple9> and they are terrified of mollywobbles! [12:58] <Aislinn> She's their little brother's friend - I doubt they would take her seriously [12:58] <Kneazly> Where are the older prefects when you need them? [12:58] <LilyFlower> lol [12:58] <Aislinn> But Molly - she is someoene they know to be concerned about [12:58] <JaneMarple9> yes Ann good point [12:58] <cbm> Or do the older prefects not care? [12:58] <bemused> Lying low, Kneazly... [12:59] <MrMcGonagall> It's difficult to make one's friends listen to au-thor-i-tay! [12:59] <huebbe> they would listen to Harry, but not Hermonie she has no force [12:59] <JaneMarple9> i think they consider hermione a minature molly [12:59] <huebbe> and Harry only out of respect [12:59] <Kneazly> Hermione is a mini Molly sometimes [12:59] <cbm> It was the perfect way to get them to stop [12:59] <JaneMarple9> always interfering, stoping them doing things [12:59] <nympheart> the twins are well liked, I doubt that older prefects would bother them [12:59] <Poet> Yes, look at how hard poor Lupin had it in trying to contain his own friends of his own age when he was a prefect [12:59] <MafaldaWeasley> They don't care for authority at all... [12:59] <Aislinn> yes, huebbe, they are friends themselves with Harry - he is not just Ron's friend, so they would listen to him more readily [12:59] <JaneMarple9> they don't smile that what makes them so cool! [12:59] <Aislinn> it was, cbm [13:00] <LilyFlower> plus Harry gave them money [13:00] <JaneMarple9> they really respect harry [13:00] <Kneazly> And lots of children wouldn't see F and G's actions as wrong--just funny, anyway, so wouldn't interfere. H has more sense [13:00] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [13:00] <bemused> Hermione is also a girl... I think that's part of it [13:00] <huebbe> could be [13:00] <JaneMarple9> if harry had been prefect, and told them to stop it...i think they'd would [13:00] <MafaldaWeasley> Harry has never tried to impose himself to them, has he? [13:00] <nympheart> that could be, bemused [13:00] <MrMcGonagall> I don't know that they would have, Jane. [13:00] <huebbe> no, but they would listen [13:01] <nympheart> he made them take money, mafalda [13:01] *** cbm has joined #lounge [13:01] <Aislinn> Hermione managed to fall asleep during the celebration. Fred seemed anxious for her to sleep on. What were your suspicions as to why Hermione fell asleep? Did she have help? [13:01] <Kneazly> Overwork as usual? [13:01] <Expelliarmas> Hermione got help falling asleep [13:01] <nympheart> ooo, good question [13:01] <MafaldaWeasley> well, it's different thing, numph, than to say stop hurting the little ones [13:01] <JaneMarple9> not thought of that! [13:01] <Poet> I'm sure Fred and George know a little something to help out with her sleepiness [13:01] <JaneMarple9> great question [13:01] <JaneMarple9> perhaps poet [13:01] <huebbe> sorry I don't remember this part [13:01] <cbm> never thought of that, but I think she was just doing her normal amount of overwork, with all the knitting and all [13:01] <Poet> Yes I totally buy that [13:01] <JaneMarple9> wandless magic? smile [13:02] <MafaldaWeasley> yes cbm, I agree [13:02] <Poet> Maybe a little potion [13:02] <nympheart> if F & G did put her to sleep, why not use something they knew would keep her out for hours, instead of having to worry about her waking up? [13:02] <bemused> Knitting could put me to sleep without help! [13:02] <cbm> lol [13:02] <huebbe> lol! [13:02] <Kneazly> Those 1st years are gullible--to take the fainting fancies without asking what they are, and then to go ahead and accept something else from F/G? [13:02] <JaneMarple9> And me bemused! [13:02] <LilyFlower> I love knitting [13:02] <JaneMarple9> embroidery on the other hand.... [13:02] <MrMcGonagall> I think Hermione was a little more stressed about being able to make the Quidditch team than she would have been willing to admit. [13:03] <LilyFlower> you mean ron? [13:03] <Poet> I'm sure they didn't want to knock Hermione out, just help the time of day and Hermione's overworked state along [13:03] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Lily [13:03] <bemused> She does worry for Ron, Mr M, you're right [13:03] <MrMcGonagall> Somehow I left that out. [13:03] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [13:03] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [13:03] <Aislinn> Why did Ron fail to help Hermione with the twins? [13:04] <cbm> self preservation [13:04] <huebbe> powerless [13:04] <Expelliarmas> Ron fears his brothers! [13:04] <nympheart> because he knows the twins would strike back when he's not looking [13:04] <bemused> Because they're his brothers and he knows them too well [13:04] <LilyFlower> He didn't want his brother to pick on him [13:04] <JaneMarple9> he does [13:04] <MafaldaWeasley> because Ron doesn't want to be seen as the git that percy was [13:04] <MrMcGonagall> He has an inferiority complex. [13:04] <JaneMarple9> ron is terrified of the twins [13:04] <Kneazly> They already tease him, it would just get worse. [13:04] <LilyFlower> They know where he lives [13:04] <nympheart> I like that Mafalda [13:04] <MrMcGonagall> Good point, Mafalda [13:04] <Kneazly> Yes Mafalda [13:04] <JaneMarple9> looks what they did to ron's teddy sad [13:04] <cbm> very good point mafalda [13:04] <huebbe> yes good point! [13:04] <Poet> Ron doesn't usually enforce the rules all that well. He does better when the student is younger. [13:05] <nympheart> he would be very conscious of that after recieving that letter from Percy [13:05] <JaneMarple9> he knew hermione could hand the Twins better than he would [13:05] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he tries to get away from Percy's image a lot, and he tries to get closer to the twins cause they were considered "cool" [13:05] <Poet> I agree its a complex of his [13:05] <MrMcGonagall> Ron does not exercise authority very objectively. [13:05] <huebbe> the twins wouldn't listen to Ginny either [13:05] <JaneMarple9> and he was frightened what they might do to him! [13:05] <MrMcGonagall> He flashes the prefect badge when it suits his purposes. [13:05] <JaneMarple9> yes mafalda [13:05] <Poet> Yeah, he does seems to want to stay away from the Percy route [13:05] <nympheart> that's true Mafalda, when he and Harry were fighting, Ron hung out with the twins [13:05] <Aislinn> Why did Luna make her support of Harry public? [13:05] <Expelliarmas> I don't think Ron really knows where he fits in yet [13:05] <Kneazly> Yes MrMcG--he's not the most responsible prefect in the room [13:06] <MrMcGonagall> Luna doesn't care about public opinion [13:06] <JaneMarple9> just being luna smile [13:06] <Poet> Luna doesn't care what others think of her. She is carefree. [13:06] <nympheart> I think she wanted Harry to kmow she wasn't ashamed of being on his side [13:06] <huebbe> because she has no preconceptions of what others think....and quite frankly she doesn't care [13:06] <JaneMarple9> suppoting harry [13:06] <Aislinn> right Mr M - she never stops to think what others think of her [13:06] <bemused> Because of who she is - it's what her father does all the time [13:06] <JaneMarple9> yes nymph [13:06] <LilyFlower> Well it's like what Evanna said, they no proof against so why not! [13:06] <cbm> She did it the 1st time she saw him and it did not matter where it was [13:06] <MrMcGonagall> Luna is caring about people in her own dotty way. [13:06] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree Mr.M [13:06] <JaneMarple9> she is Mr McG. [13:06] <LilyFlower> Harry was somewhat nice to her on the train [13:06] <Kneazly> She's probably used to people whispering behind her back, so knows how important it is to say things openly. [13:06] <JaneMarple9> shes a really caring person [13:07] <Kneazly> Give support openly. [13:07] <Expelliarmas> Well, Hermione might be right, there's no proof Harry is right, and so Luna supports the unseen and unproven, so there you go [13:07] <nympheart> good point Kneazly [13:07] <JaneMarple9> she knows how it feels to have whispers whispered about her [13:07] <LilyFlower> Luna knows how hard it is to see someone die [13:07] <MafaldaWeasley> nice point Lily [13:07] <Aislinn> Why did Ernie make his support public? [13:07] <JaneMarple9> so showing harry she is on his side [13:07] <huebbe> Luna and harry are the same in some respects, neither gives into public opinion and they don't do much to change the public's opionon. They just do what is right [13:07] <JaneMarple9> just being his usual pompus self i think [13:07] <LilyFlower> He's a Hufflpuff and he felt bad about what happen to Cedric [13:07] <Kneazly> Ernie is a very very good Hufflepuff, he does what he thinks is right [13:08] <cbm> It was the right thing to do, and it was a safe place to do it with no slytherins around [13:08] <LilyFlower> Luna and Harry are both outsiders [13:08] <bemused> Ernie seems to be a stickler for 'doing the right thing' [13:08] <JaneMarple9> yes maybe so lily [13:08] <Expelliarmas> I was actually impressed with Ernie. Maybe after publicly accusing Harry in CoS, he figured he should be ahead of the curve [13:08] <nympheart> he likes to flaunt himself and I think he learned from his experience with Harry in CoS [13:08] <huebbe> I think he wanted to be in the "in crowd" [13:08] <LilyFlower> HUfflepuffs rule! Squee! [13:08] <JaneMarple9> i forgot about the hufflepuff connection [13:08] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [13:08] * Expelliarmas suspects LilyFlower is a Huffie fan [13:08] <nympheart> hi cloud [13:08] <Kneazly> Hi cloudpic [13:08] <huebbe> hi cloud [13:08] <JaneMarple9> (((Cloudpic)))) [13:08] <bemused> Hello cloudpic [13:08] <cbm> hi cloudpic! [13:08] <Aislinn> I agree that it was impressive of Ernie to state his support in that public way, especially right after a person that the rest of the school sees as nuts has stated the same thing [13:09] <huebbe> lol [13:09] <LilyFlower> Hello! I am a Hufflepuff [13:09] <huebbe> good point [13:09] <Poet> I agree with all of those ideas - he'd been wrong before and when someone stepped up he quickly did the same, especially with no Slytherins around [13:09] <Aislinn> Was McGonagall correct in her assessment of Neville’s abilities, i.e., that he only lacked confidence? Hermione seeks to free the elves through deception. Was this ethical? Why or why not? [13:09] <cbm> I do not think we ever find out what percentage believe the toad vs. how many believe DD [13:10] <Kneazly> I think Ernie would have done it even if Slytherins were around. Once he's decided what's right, he follows it [13:10] <cbm> I agree with McG [13:10] <MrMcGonagall> I thnk McG was dead-on. [13:10] <nympheart> I think McG knew exactly what she was talking about [13:10] <Kneazly> Ooh, two questions at once. [13:10] <LilyFlower> Poor Neville [13:10] *** GranjoGranger has joined #lounge [13:10] <bemused> Well, Neville does seem to flourish when someone shows confidence in him [13:10] <nympheart> she gets proved right later in the book [13:10] <cloudpic> Yes... he lacked confidence and had "performance anxiety" left from his home life... [13:10] <huebbe> Neville, yes there is so much more to him than we have seen. His character has grown stronger with every novel, and he is seriously loyal to Harry [13:10] <MafaldaWeasley> I loved that.I think she sees a lot of pontential on Neville and she knows Augusta, so she knew how hard she must had been on him all the way [13:10] <Poet> McGonagall is a good teacher to know what her student needs and to try and provide it - a confidence boost [13:10] <Expelliarmas> She's right about Neville. Hermione is wrong to do what she's doing [13:10] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [13:11] <cbm> I disagree with what Hermione was doing, it showed a lack of understanding of the house elves [13:11] <Kneazly> Hey Granjo! I think mcGonagall was entirely right--we see how many things in magic rely on confidence and Neville starts developing it in the Da [13:11] <huebbe> Hermonie was wrong [13:11] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [13:11] <bemused> The wierd thing about Hermione and her hats is that she doesn't really have the authority for free elves anyway [13:11] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione was quite unethical, but that does seem to be how she rolls. Any means to suit her end. [13:11] <nympheart> McG is aware that Augusta is hard on Neville, so she tries to encourage him [13:11] <LilyFlower> Neville will fight for his parents and that well make him just a strong as Harry [13:11] <bemused> They're not her elves [13:11] <cloudpic> Didn't Neville have someone else's wand for a while? [13:11] <huebbe> I don't like the whole Hermonie Hat thing [13:11] <LilyFlower> His father's [13:11] <Poet> Once again Hermione's muggle-born status causes her a bit of trouble because she doesn't understand the way certain magical creatures think [13:11] <cbm> He only gets his own want on HBP [13:11] <cbm> wand [13:11] * cloudpic is glad I'm able to "talk"... CB was rejecting me [13:11] <huebbe> I root for Nevelle every time [13:11] <bemused> (and it was wrong of her to try to trick them into freedom) [13:12] <Kneazly> Again, with herminone's hats, it's not informed consent by the elves. [13:12] <nympheart> Hermione thought she was fighting for the greater good, but she doesn't bother to look through another pair of eyes [13:12] <LilyFlower> Hermione got a little crazy there [13:12] <Aislinn> Is Lucius feeding Draco information, or is Draco eavesdropping? If Lucius is feeding the information to Draco, why is he doing so? [13:12] <cloudpic> Both? [13:12] <GranjoGranger> Neville did have his father [13:12] <cloudpic> So Draco has swaggering rights? [13:12] <Kneazly> Eavesdropping, that's the kind he is--remember Norbert? [13:12] <nympheart> I think it's both [13:12] * cloudpic thanks granjogranger [13:12] <JaneMarple9> both i say [13:12] <bemused> I think Lucius tells Draco things - perhaps to give him an advantage [13:13] <cbm> I think he is feeding him some information, just like he did in CoS [13:13] <Aislinn> Lucius does seem to talk to his son about a lot of stuff [13:13] <Expelliarmas> I think Lucius is training Draco, just like DD has been training Harry [13:13] <LilyFlower> Draco is eavesdropiing because I think both of his parent love him him very much and don't want him miss up with LV [13:13] <nympheart> I agree bemused, so the MoM and Umbridge see that Draco is on their side [13:13] <MafaldaWeasley> I think Draco may well be listennign behind doors [13:13] <Aislinn> he knew about the Triwizard Tournament well before school started [13:13] <MrMcGonagall> The "telephone" line could stretch even farther. It could Lucius telling Narcissa, who tells Draco in the doting letters from home. [13:13] <JaneMarple9> yes expie nice possiability [13:13] <cloudpic> Sadly, I think you're right Expie [13:13] <LilyFlower> Look at Draco's mother I'm sure that his father feels the same way [13:13] <cbm> Draco did know exactly where Hagrid was [13:13] <Aislinn> right, and about Sirius [13:13] <JaneMarple9> i can see draco eavesdropping [13:13] *** ltbrave23 has joined #lounge [13:13] <JaneMarple9> even at home [13:14] <huebbe> it's both [13:14] <Kneazly> I think Lucius probably tells him some things, and he picks up on other things [13:14] <Expelliarmas> Draco also works to give Lucius information from Hogwarts [13:14] <Aislinn> he seems to have a lot of inside information, and I agree that Lucius is probably preparing his son [13:14] <cbm> I think his father is more about appearance than cairing [13:14] <JaneMarple9> he's the type smile [13:14] <nympheart> hi ltbrave [13:14] <cloudpic> Doesn't Lucius see Draco as an extension of himself... so he needs his son to seem superior [13:14] <MafaldaWeasley> and most of the time, I think Draco doesn't have a clue on how serious is the info he is ivin away [13:14] <Poet> I wouldn't be surprised if he uses Draco a bit to keep an ear out for what is going on at Hogwarts, so it helps Lucius' cause to have Draco a bit in the know. [13:14] <JaneMarple9> yes cbm [13:14] <ltbrave23> hey nympheart and everyone [13:14] <LilyFlower> Hello [13:14] <JaneMarple9> hi ltbrave [13:14] <huebbe> yes poet [13:14] <cloudpic> Yes, poet, and that also bonds Draco to him more fully [13:14] <huebbe> I don't think Draco understands half of what he is told [13:14] <cbm> That is true poet, if draco know what is happening, he will know what to pass back to his father [13:15] <bemused> Draco may eavesdrop on Harry and the others, but I think Lucius actually feeds him the information [13:15] <JaneMarple9> maybe not huebbe [13:15] <huebbe> or what is going on.. [13:15] <nympheart> I agree huebbe, if Draco were a bit smarter, he wouldn't have let Harry know that he knew about Sirius [13:15] <huebbe> yes [13:15] <cloudpic> I'm not sure I agree, huebbe, I think Draco knows most of what's happening... he's a typically cunning Syltherin. [13:15] <Kneazly> Or what he knew about hagrid [13:15] <MafaldaWeasley> that's why I think he had listened to it, Nymph [13:15] <huebbe> i think the information he has he doesn't even know what to do with [13:15] <cloudpic> Teenaged swagger got in the way of his keeping his secrets [13:15] <LilyFlower> But he doen't know what he got himself into in HBP [13:16] <MrMcGonagall> Draco likes to taunt with the bits of information he knows, but I don't think he sees or understands the big picture. [13:16] <JaneMarple9> yes lily [13:16] <cbm> true, draco is an idiot for giving them both the giant and dog info, he just want to be the big man on campus [13:16] <Kneazly> I agree Mr mCG [13:16] <nympheart> I agree MrM [13:16] <huebbe> only in so far that he was willing to help [13:16] <JaneMarple9> yes cbm [13:16] <GranjoGranger> s wand or something like that.Harry should have known where Hagrid was because there had been talk about it at the end of GOF. Either that or I'm rewriting the book in my mind. [13:16] <bemused> I think that's right, Me M [13:16] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [13:16] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [13:16] <bemused> *Mr [13:16] <Kneazly> Yes harry should have been able to guess, but he must not have expected it to take that long [13:16] <JaneMarple9> revolving doors today Ainslinn? sad [13:17] <Aislinn> On to chapter 14: Many think Umbridge set Filch on Harry to get hold of his letters. If so, do you think this was easy for it? Why would Filch be the only staff member to freely go up against the school? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [13:17] <Aislinn> Yes Jane - naughty computer [13:17] <cloudpic> But Draco's knowing things and showing it off provides a means of threatening Harry and company [13:17] <Poet> Filch is always anxious to see students in trouble [13:17] <Expelliarmas> Umbridge would have had no problems getting Filch's help [13:17] <ltbrave23> well, Filch thinks that the school is finally on the right track [13:17] <JaneMarple9> yes poet [13:17] <Kneazly> Filch likes the idea of pain and punishment just as much as Umbridge [13:17] <LilyFlower> You trying going into the owly, I wouldn't It's full of pooop [13:17] <nympheart> Filch is sour about his lack of authority, no one listens to him because in a way he's inferior to the students [13:17] <ltbrave23> under Umbridge that it [13:17] <JaneMarple9> couldn't have put it better [13:17] <MrMcGonagall> Umbridge has a natural ally in Filch. [13:17] <Poet> I think Umbridge used this to her advantage and tried to get him to retrieve the letter by lying to him about what might be in it [13:18] <cbm> I think the toad understands filch perfectly and know how to get him to help [13:18] <huebbe> Flich would do anything to make him look like the ultimate dicipliner [13:18] <bemused> Interesting, though, that she spun him a yarn rather than simply saying she wanted to read Harry's mail [13:18] <JaneMarple9> it is one way for umbridge to befriend filch [13:18] <bemused> He wouldn't have cared [13:18] <LilyFlower> I don't Hedwig would have given up the letter so easy she is very proud [13:18] <cloudpic> Poor Filch is also powerless in the most important way in his world: no magic... that would make him vulnerable to someone offering him power [13:18] <JaneMarple9> by encouraging him to get harry into trouble [13:18] <MrMcGonagall> At this point, Umbridge still needs to worry about things getting back to DD. [13:18] <Expelliarmas> I think we see that the owls will be searched in the future [13:18] <huebbe> yeah, he loves to people in trouble [13:18] <Poet> Right, any suggestion to Filch at all about going after something a student may or may not be doing.... [13:18] <Kneazly> He wouldn't have cared, but he might have let something slip to DD if she'd told him her real motives [13:18] <bemused> Fair point, Mr M [13:19] <Aislinn> What do you think of the way that Harry acts around Cho? Is it realistic? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:19] <MrMcGonagall> Every teenage boy. [13:19] <nympheart> I think it's both realistic and cute [13:19] <huebbe> yes [13:19] <bemused> Seems so to me [13:19] <huebbe> i see it every day [13:19] <cloudpic> Seemed genuine to me... after observing teens for a few decades LOL [13:19] <Kneazly> Fun, huebbe! [13:19] <bemused> though I've never been a boy! [13:19] <JaneMarple9> pretty standard teenage behaviour [13:20] <cbm> I thought it was very well done [13:20] <JaneMarple9> just being a boy! [13:20] <cloudpic> And awfully cute too [13:20] <MrMcGonagall> Take it from me bemused, Jo pegged Harry well on this one. LOL [13:20] <huebbe> lol [13:20] <Aislinn> How important was it for Cho to give Harry a vote of confidence? Why was it important? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:20] <bemused> Point took, MrM [13:20] <cloudpic> These first crushes based on superficial things create that kind of reaction [13:20] <huebbe> oooo yes [13:20] <GranjoGranger> I agree. Teenagers are still figuring out how to interact. [13:20] <ltbrave23> boosted his confidence [13:20] <Poet> It was something to take his mind off his other concerns, so that was good [13:20] <cloudpic> Did him good, didn't it? To know someone he valued thought he was OK [13:20] <Aislinn> I think it let him feel like he might have a chance with her [13:20] <LilyFlower> Because she was one of the people who really knew Cedric [13:21] <Expelliarmas> Harry's ego needed the feminine vote of confidence [13:21] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, a vote of confidnece from Luna is one thing; vote from Cho means much more to Harry. [13:21] <huebbe> the girl you have a crush on gives you a confidence boost? Ummmm yes! [13:21] <cbm> It did wonders for him, I think it is the 1st good thing that happened to him this term [13:21] <nympheart> Harry needed to know that people didn't hate him and he wanted to know that Cho was fond of him [13:21] *** phoenix42 has joined #lounge [13:21] <bemused> Because he was thinking about her and really wanting her good opinion [13:21] <cloudpic> Oh, yes, LilyFlower... that part was even more powerful [13:21] <Kneazly> Important for all the reasons harry thought of--she could've hated him but she gave him confidence instead [13:21] <Expelliarmas> welcome back, phoenix42 [13:21] <phoenix42> okay, trying one more time [13:21] <GranjoGranger> Absolutely. [13:21] <bemused> 'Fraid I have to go now - bye everyone! [13:21] <cloudpic> They both handled that unexpected encounter pretty well, considering [13:22] <Aislinn> What was Sturgis Podmore actually doing? Was it an intentional frame-up by the Ministry, or did they just misinterpret why he was there? (Chamber 88) [13:22] <ltbrave23> bye [13:22] <nympheart> bye bemused [13:22] <LilyFlower> Bye [13:22] <huebbe> bye bemused [13:22] <Kneazly> Bye bemused [13:22] *** bemused left #lounge [] [13:22] <Expelliarmas> bye bemused [13:22] <nympheart> I don't think they knew what he was up to [13:22] <LilyFlower> spying for the order? [13:22] <ltbrave23> they wanted to be seen doing there jobs, he unfortunately was the only one they could find [13:22] <cbm> I think he was on guard duty [13:22] <Kneazly> I think Pdomore was imperiused somehow, to try to break in where he was guarding [13:22] <JaneMarple9> a frame up i think [13:22] <ltbrave23> he may have been cbm [13:22] <cloudpic> I assumed Sturgis was working for the Order and was caught being where he ought not to have been... and off he went to Azkaban. One more down. [13:22] <JaneMarple9> he was in the wrong place at the wrong time [13:23] <huebbe> yes [13:23] <Poet> He was imperiused and couldn't tell them what he was up to, nor would he if he wasn't imperiused [13:23] <cbm> But I also think his sentence was harsh because he was close to DD [13:23] <GranjoGranger> Frame up, yes. [13:23] <Aislinn> I didn't get that it was a frame up - I thought he was imperiused and that he was trying to break in because of this [13:23] <JaneMarple9> yes kneazly thats possible [13:23] <cloudpic> Yes, Jane... much more succinctly put!\ [13:23] <Kneazly> I'd better go. Bye all! [13:23] *** phoenix42 has quit [Bye] [13:23] <JaneMarple9> smile [13:23] <MrMcGonagall> I think so too, Aislinn [13:23] *** Kneazly left #lounge [] [13:23] <LilyFlower> Bye Kneazly [13:23] <ltbrave23> bye [13:23] <cloudpic> I thought the "break in" part was that he was where he shouldn [13:23] <Aislinn> he may have been trying to fight the Imperius, and as a result was not as careful as he would have been if he had been acting freely [13:23] <cloudpic> be... where was his invisibility cloak? [13:23] <Expelliarmas> so did I, cloudpic. [13:23] <LilyFlower> Maybe LV was controlling him [13:23] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree Aislinn [13:24] <ltbrave23> i agree cloudpic [13:24] <Expelliarmas> I thought he was somewhere he shouldn't have been [13:24] <ltbrave23> i never got the impression that he was imperiused [13:24] <cbm> So maybe there are 3 parts, guard duty, imperius, and then the harsh sentence for being close to DD [13:24] <cloudpic> Maybe the cloak slipped... or he just slipped up somehow? [13:24] <JaneMarple9> perhaps cloudpic [13:24] <Aislinn> . Why did Sturgis Podmore refuse to speak in his own defense? (Chamber 88) [13:24] <Poet> Lucius imperiused him at the time of Harry's trial I believe [13:24] <LilyFlower> I agree cbm [13:24] <MrMcGonagall> Am I spacing out, or did Lucius confess to imperiusing him at the end of OotP [13:24] <cbm> I think we will see the cloak later on [13:24] <cloudpic> If they used the Imperious Curse on him... there's a danger he'd "tell" after his 6 month sentence was up [13:24] <nympheart> he didn't want to give away the Order [13:24] <LilyFlower> He couldn't [13:24] <Aislinn> yes, poet, I think that's true [13:25] <Expelliarmas> I think he was imperiused and refused to speak in his own defense because he was not yet recovered [13:25] <cbm> what could he say? I am a member of the ootp? [13:25] <Poet> I think he was either still imperiused or he didn't want to give away the Order [13:25] <cloudpic> He may have been afraid he'd lead them to the Order [13:25] <LilyFlower> The Seeker keeper spell [13:25] <ltbrave23> i agree that he refused to give up the order [13:25] <Expelliarmas> I think Hermione figured out the Imperious thing, MrM [13:25] <Aislinn> i think he was still imperiused, and so could not speak up in his own defense [13:25] <cloudpic> And I must agree to disagree... the Imperius was forbidden....I don't see it used if he's going to be back in society in such a short time [13:25] <GranjoGranger> That was H's opinion [13:26] <cbm> If he was still imperiused, couldn't the person who cast it made him implicate DD? [13:26] <Aislinn> you're afraid he would give away the fact he was imperiused, cloudpic? [13:26] <MrMcGonagall> I think after the incident occurred, the imperius was lifted, but he would refuse to speak in his own defense because it would incriminate DD and the Order. [13:26] <Expelliarmas> it depends on what the caster planted into the mind of the bewitched person [13:26] <cloudpic> I'm sure they'd expect him to [13:26] <nympheart> that may have been difficult if he was trying to fight it cbm [13:26] <Poet> You can always kill him - remember that Voldemort was growing in power and he's not above killing people. And there are memory charms.... [13:27] <Aislinn> right, poet - they could have obliviated him after he got out [13:27] <cloudpic> That's why I think it wasn't used.... if they'd used it, he'd have been dead meat [13:27] <Aislinn> Sturgis Podmore got 6 months in Azkaban for his offense. Was this a fair sentence? (Chamber 88) [13:27] * cloudpic sorry, terrible image that [13:27] <LilyFlower> No [13:27] <cbm> Not at all [13:27] <Poet> He was forced to try and break into the DoM. It certainly seems fair [13:27] <huebbe> no [13:27] <nympheart> not knowing that he was imperioused [13:27] <MafaldaWeasley> I agree Poet [13:27] <Poet> ..if they thought he was acting on his own [13:27] <cloudpic> I agree with Dumbledore... no time in the "care" of the dementors is fair [13:27] <cbm> I think it was because he was close to DD [13:27] <LilyFlower> I don't see how he would be able to survive that long [13:27] <MrMcGonagall> Actually, I have to say it sounds ust. [13:27] <MrMcGonagall> just [13:27] <Aislinn> agreed cloudpic [13:28] <nympheart> but from the MoM's view, I don't think that was outrageous, in HBP, Dung gets the same thing [13:28] <Expelliarmas> I think he got the most the MoM could give him, thanks to Lucius [13:28] <MrMcGonagall> Probably true, Expie. [13:28] <GranjoGranger> If it was used on him, then he did not do it and wouldnot be punished for it. He would keep silent to protect the Order. I thought only the location of headquarters was protected by the secret keeper. [13:28] <cloudpic> Prison is one thing. Being drained of your ability to experience joy is another. [13:28] <LilyFlower> In our jail yes but that jail no [13:28] <cloudpic> The names of members is not protected [13:28] <cloudpic> Their plans are not protected [13:29] <LilyFlower> yea cloudpic [13:29] <Aislinn> Why does Jo include this scene of the Quidditch practice? What can we learn from it? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:29] <Expelliarmas> I think we see how easy it is to rattle Ron [13:29] <cbm> Ron needs to grow up and the slitherrins are still gits [13:29] <JaneMarple9> it shows ron lacks confidence [13:29] <cloudpic> To prepare us for the test of Ron's mettle which is coming [13:29] <Aislinn> yes, we see Ron's real confidence problem [13:29] <MrMcGonagall> It does give us great insight into Ron's character [13:29] <nympheart> it shows a real contrast between Ron and Harry [13:29] <JaneMarple9> it shows ron needs to practice quidditch more [13:30] <Poet> And to show that Fred and George are still working on their products, and sometimes there are bad results [13:30] <LilyFlower> It foreshadows book 7th? [13:30] <JaneMarple9> yes nymph [13:30] <cloudpic> Ron really goes through the mill in this book (less than Harry... but it hits on his weakest quality) [13:30] <GranjoGranger> The taunting of the Slytherins produced a good bit of performance anxiety. [13:30] <nympheart> Harry wasn't as visibly nervous when he started playing [13:30] <MrMcGonagall> It also shows us Ron an Harry interacting in a different sort of environment. [13:30] <MafaldaWeasley> hehe Jane [13:30] <Expelliarmas> I didn't think Ron would cave in so easily given he has Fred, George, Bill,and Charlie for brothers [13:30] <cloudpic> Ron comes out of it stronger [13:30] <Aislinn> eventually, he does [13:30] <huebbe> sorry attention was lost on a 3 year old....to see Ron's inferiority and the ability to learn from his insecurities [13:30] <cloudpic> Perhaps that's why he was even jumpier than most kids? Fred & George? [13:31] <Expelliarmas> after the Weasley crucible, I thought he'd be mentally tougher given he's seen what the Slytherins try on Harry [13:31] <cloudpic> Mind, I love the twins, but not everyone gets stronger from constant torture [13:31] <GranjoGranger> It takes awhile, but Ron really grows a lot playing wuidditch. [13:31] <MrMcGonagall> Ron has always felt a bit lost in the shuffle among his brothers. [13:31] <Aislinn> I think he really has an inferiority complex, expie, when he compares himself to his brothers [13:31] <Expelliarmas> Ron needed the teamwork of Quidditch [13:31] <huebbe> ooo i like the new spelling gran! lol [13:31] <JaneMarple9> yes Mr McG [13:31] <MrMcGonagall> It's actually the presence of the twins mor than anything that makes him nervous [13:31] <cloudpic> He's already angrily said even when he succeeds... it's no big deal as his brothers have already "been there." [13:31] <Aislinn> He doesn't see himself as anyone special, so it's easy to believe that he's not when others taunt him. [13:32] <JaneMarple9> he wants to show he is good at something [13:32] <huebbe> the twins will end up saying "sorry" to Ron at some point [13:32] <MafaldaWeasley> Cloudpic, Fred and George had given Ron the possibilitie of knowing when things are not okay. Most of th time Ron get's serious he's dead on, cause he had been suffering for a long time. I think we see him so insecure, cause he had been under theit brothers shadows for so long, that when it's his time, he completely freezes [13:32] <GranjoGranger> The twinf do go too far. [13:32] <JaneMarple9> a little to far yes smile [13:32] <MafaldaWeasley> uu soory, that was long [13:32] <Aislinn> and he is so used to them taking the mickey out of him, he is anticipating it [13:33] <Aislinn> The infamous 'Percy Letter'. What further insights do we get about Percy's character from the nature of this letter? (Chamber 007). [13:33] <JaneMarple9> that why so they are such good characters! [13:33] <cloudpic> I see what you mean, Mafalda... but it's too much sometimes [13:33] <MafaldaWeasley> yes it is, I agree with you, cloudpic [13:33] <JaneMarple9> percy is a git smile [13:33] <cloudpic> Oh... I'm so in the wrong "camp" on this... I felt sorry for Percy. [13:33] <cbm> I think he is following in Umbridge's footsteps [13:33] <JaneMarple9> yes cbm [13:33] <MrMcGonagall> If the Weasleys had a family tree tapestry, I'd zap him off (though I'd replace him if he ever winds up redeeming himself) [13:33] <nympheart> I think Percy's lonely without his family, even if he won't admit it [13:33] <cloudpic> I don't think he realizes he's being used. [13:33] <JaneMarple9> yes Mr McG! [13:33] <huebbe> he has issues. either no emotion, or too much and he's pridefull, or just a plain terd [13:33] <Expelliarmas> I don't feel sorry for Percy, he's made his choice yet again [13:34] <cloudpic> I don't think it's an informed choice. [13:34] <Expelliarmas> I think he does know he's being used, and he lives to be of service [13:34] <LilyFlower> I feel sorry for him too [13:34] <MrMcGonagall> As usual, he's blinded by his ambition and pride of office. [13:34] <cloudpic> Again, we must agree to disagree... [13:34] <JaneMarple9> i do feel a little sorry for him [13:34] <huebbe> hmmm...i don't think i do Lily [13:34] <MrMcGonagall> He is pitiable. [13:34] <JaneMarple9> i am sure he misses his family [13:34] <Expelliarmas> Percy isn't a dope, he knows what is going on [13:34] <JaneMarple9> particually Molly [13:34] <MafaldaWeasley> that he has the law and the rules and that he seeks fro prestige and recognition so bad, that he can turne his back to his family for them not to be on the right side, I mean the Ministry side. Somehow I think he believes that their poverty comes from his father's lack of understanding of the "right side" [13:34] <GranjoGranger> I think Percy believes in what he is doing and saying. He puts his all into whatever he does. Now it is the ministry. [13:34] <cbm> he has tossed his family away willingly just to be near power [13:34] <MrMcGonagall> I don't have sympathy for him, but I do pity him. [13:35] <nympheart> I think that's got something to do with why he wrote to Ron, Jane [13:35] <cloudpic> Even very smart people have been manipulated by people [13:35] <huebbe> he belongs to a very loving family who would accept him and love him no matter what....yet he is too Macbeth [13:35] <Aislinn> Is Percy acting completely of his own opinion and accord, or is he being used by the MoM (Fudge or Umbridge) to get to Harry and Dumbledore. If so, is Percy aware of this but willing regardless to further his career? (Chamber 007). [13:35] <JaneMarple9> he is being manipulated by fudge i think [13:35] <huebbe> too much ambition and pride [13:35] <Poet> I didn't know whether to take Percy's attempt, to try and advise Ron against Harry, seriously. He didn't really think Ron would do that did he? He's forgotten already what Harry si really like [13:35] <LilyFlower> He's being used [13:35] <JaneMarple9> he respects fudge too much [13:35] <cbm> Percy is acting on his own [13:35] <MrMcGonagall> He's acting of his own accord, all right. Classic Percy. [13:35] <Poet> He's being used, but its mostly his own accord [13:35] <Aislinn> I think that he has formed his own opinion, but it is based on his hero worship of Fudge [13:35] <MafaldaWeasley> I think he's git enought to be acting on his own [13:35] <Expelliarmas> He is allowing himself to be manipulated, which isn't manipulation [13:35] <cloudpic> Well, I guess I've already come down on the very tiny side which says he's being used. Unknowingly. [13:36] <JaneMarple9> used by fudge in my opinion [13:36] <huebbe> sorry all i must go! [13:36] <Aislinn> bye huebbe [13:36] <JaneMarple9> bye huebbe! [13:36] <MafaldaWeasley> bye huebbe! [13:36] <nympheart> He told Ron to stay away from Harry, if the idea was to get closer to him, he wouldn't have said that, so I don't think he's being used that way yet [13:36] <cbm> He has decided that getting ahead is more important than a loving family [13:36] <MrMcGonagall> I don't exactly know what Fudge hopes to gain by creating this rift in the Weasley family. [13:36] *** huebbe has quit [Bye] [13:36] <Expelliarmas> bye huebbe [13:36] <ltbrave23> Percy is all to willing and happy to be used. He literally volunteers for it [13:36] <Poet> I agree - its a based on an adoration for the government. He has some seriously blinders on. [13:36] <Aislinn> I'm not sure he is trying to create a rift - he was hoping that Percy would bring him inside information [13:36] <MrMcGonagall> If Percy's promotion was calculated to gain information, Percy has ruined that opportunity. [13:37] <cloudpic> See, it was his "advice" which is part of the reason I'm convinced he just doesnt' "get" the way the world works... some very smart people have poor [13:37] <Expelliarmas> Fudge wants someone to spy on DD through the Weasley connection. [13:37] <Aislinn> which tells me that it is Percy on his own and not fuge controlling him [13:37] <cbm> MrM. I do not think the rift was suposed to happen, I think Percy was suposed to spy and pass on info [13:37] <cloudpic> judgment about people. [13:37] <MrMcGonagall> I think fudge values blind loyalty of his minions more than anything else. [13:37] <Poet> Oh I see that - trying to get Ron to tell him information [13:37] <MrMcGonagall> fudge is childish. [13:37] <ltbrave23> well if Fudge did want Percy to spy, Percy surely didn't get the memo [13:37] <Aislinn> yes, he demonstrates very poor judgement cloudpic [13:37] <GranjoGranger> Percy is being used. He knows it.As long as he is rewarded inside the ministry, it is ok with him. He just wants to move uo. [13:37] <Aislinn> Percy threatens Ron with losing his badge if he stays friends with Harry. Do you think the Ministry would actively start “hunting” Harry's friends and believers to kill what they think are rumors about Voldemort? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [13:38] <cloudpic> Fudge isn't smart enough for the position he holds in his Government. [13:38] <cbm> Yes, they would [13:38] <MafaldaWeasley> I totally see it [13:38] <nympheart> aren't they doing that already? [13:38] <cloudpic> Well, certainly. [13:38] <Aislinn> absolutely [13:38] <MrMcGonagall> I think they would. I think the handwriting is on the wall that the Ministry plans to take over hogwarts via Umbridge. [13:38] <ltbrave23> yes [13:38] <MafaldaWeasley> that's what they have been doing [13:38] <Expelliarmas> Of course they would [13:38] <Aislinn> they are controlling the media, and would do whatever they could to silence what they see as the opposition. [13:39] <cloudpic> Odd, wasn't it that this had never happened before in the History of Hogwarts... Ministry invading like this. [13:39] <Aislinn> Do you think Percy really expected Ron to side with him? Is he hoping that Ron could work with him to have the family believe the Ministry? Does he really think such a self-absorbed letter would change Ron’s mind about … everything? (Chamber 29) [13:39] <cloudpic> Yep. I think he thought he was helping his brother out. Percy has no social sense. [13:39] <nympheart> I think he believed that Ron might, he hoped Ron was more like him [13:40] <MrMcGonagall> I think Percy sees hope for his younger brother as someone who's not following in the twins' footsteps. [13:40] <Expelliarmas> I think Percy thought Ron would give him information. Percy might have hoped Ron was more like Percy [13:40] <cbm> Yes I do, I think that since Ron got the badge, Percy is deluded enough to think that Ron is like himself [13:40] <Poet> I think he was reaching out in loneliness and selfishness. At that moment Ron seemed most like him out of all his family [13:40] <LilyFlower> Maybe Percy was trying to push Ron closer to Harry and his family by writing this letter [13:40] <GranjoGranger> Yes, Percy is that self important. He would like to be able to change Ron's attitude. [13:40] <Aislinn> exactly right, cloudpic [13:40] <MafaldaWeasley> I think Percy truly believe to have some influence not only over Ron but also over Ginny. i think he believes himself as a behavoiur model for them [13:40] <cloudpic> We seen Percy as socially clueless throughout. He doesn't understand people. [13:40] <nympheart> maybe, Lily, but I don't see what Percy would gain by it [13:41] <Aislinn> If Percy did not expect Ron to side with Percy, do you think he hoped Harry would do so? Could Percy be missing the Weasly family or is this an effort to cause further division in the family? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:41] <JaneMarple9> bad cough there Cloudpic smile [13:42] <MrMcGonagall> No, every word of that missive was as sincere as it was pompous. [13:42] <JaneMarple9> he's missing them [13:42] *** Raldan has joined #lounge [13:42] * cloudpic takes a throat lozenge [13:42] <GranjoGranger> Lily, this works if Percy is undercover for the Order at this stage. I can easily believe that approach. [13:42] <nympheart> I don't think Percy believed Harry would do anything different [13:42] <Aislinn> I agree, Mr M - it was all his own thoughts, sincerely expressed [13:42] <Expelliarmas> Percy hoped to have one member of his family side with him. [13:42] <JaneMarple9> cough drop dolores? biggrin [13:42] <Raldan> Hi Everyone. [13:42] <LilyFlower> I just Percy to be good [13:42] <nympheart> I think Percy is lonely, but doesn't admit it [13:42] <Aislinn> The most disturbing aspect of the letter for me was when he referred to Umbridge as a truly lovely woman [13:42] * Aislinn shudders [13:42] <MrMcGonagall> Way, waaaaaay down deep Percy probably misses his family (I hope), but he's consoling himself with his "important" work to sublimate any such feelings. [13:42] <cbm> I think he was truly trying to save ron the the ravings ifof Harry [13:43] * Expelliarmas thinks Percy needs new glasses if he thinks the Toad is a woman [13:43] <cloudpic> LOL... Percy was, I think, impressed by Umbridge. Doesn't that convince anyone else of his appalling lack of judgement about people? [13:43] <Aislinn> yes, cloudpic, I'm convinced laugh [13:43] <cbm> If Percy was missing his family, why did he not come back in HBP when he as proved wrong [13:43] <cloudpic> Thanks, Aislinn [13:43] <nympheart> spite, cbm [13:43] <MrMcGonagall> Percy is proud and can't admit he's wrong about anything. [13:44] <MrMcGonagall> He's delusional. [13:44] <nympheart> he doesn't like being by himself, but he hates being wrong [13:44] <MrMcGonagall> LOL [13:44] <LilyFlower> Because he thought he went to far to turn back now [13:44] <LilyFlower> He fears rejection [13:44] <nympheart> Percy was always supposed to be the smart Weasley, he's not supposed to make mistakes [13:44] <MafaldaWeasley> Because his family is not acting under the law, but is acting away from it by being part of the OoTP [13:44] <LilyFlower> thats why he tries so hard [13:44] <cloudpic> Smart with books and school. Not with people. [13:44] <GranjoGranger> It is eithrt appalling lack of judgement or a cover up for his true opinion. [13:45] <cloudpic> Two different skills. [13:45] <Poet> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. Don't forget to vote in the latest poll for the next WWW chat here: http://www.leakylounge.com/Topic-poll-WWW-chat-4-25-t43559.html [13:45] <cbm> His is the booksmart weasley, the twins are the smart weasleys in my opinion [13:45] <cloudpic> I so agree, cbm! [13:45] <JaneMarple9> sounds a little like Hermione that Cloudpic smile [13:45] <nympheart> true cloud, but I think Percy still can't face his errors [13:45] <MafaldaWeasley> Bill is the smart Weasley In my opinion hehe [13:45] <ltbrave23> the twins are extremely smart [13:45] <Aislinn> Sirius said the world isn’t divided into good people and Death Eaters, and in this vein Harry’s world has been growing since the first book (there isn’t a wizard who went bad who wasn’t in Slytherin). Are there others who serve as good examples of this policy highlighted in this book? (Chamber 29) [13:45] <ltbrave23> they know their magic [13:46] <nympheart> yes, but Percy was the one Molly always bragged about [13:46] <Aislinn> I think a lot of the loyal Ministry members - Crouch Sr, Fudge, etc. are good examples of this. [13:46] <ltbrave23> that's because of how his intelligence is shown [13:46] <Poet> Well there are mostly good people who are frauds - like Trelawney [13:46] <cbm> I am sure she braged about bill before he became a curse breaker [13:46] <Aislinn> They aren't Death Eaters, but make very bad choices. [13:46] <ltbrave23> when it comes to advanced magic, i think the twins are more talented [13:46] <Poet> People like Dung who have a different idea about what is wrong and right [13:47] <MafaldaWeasley> would Dung fit in here? [13:47] <JaneMarple9> yes ltrave [13:47] <cloudpic> Aside from Umbridge... other "bad" sorts who aren't Death Eaters? hmmm... Filch and his sadistic desires? [13:47] <GranjoGranger> Only Hermione has better people skills. Percy is loyal. He does what his superiors ask of him and he does dot the is and cross the ts. [13:47] <MafaldaWeasley> hehe you read my mind Poet [13:47] <Poet> hehe [13:47] <MrMcGonagall> there are plenty of people who are just too afraid to take any kind of stand. Doesn't make them bad, but it hardly makes them heroic, either. [13:47] <MrMcGonagall> Most of the wizarding world falls into this category, I think. [13:47] <Poet> Yes, even Hermione gets a bit carried away. She's the most mild form of good intentions sometimes going wrong [13:47] <nympheart> kind of like how we saw Remus in SWM, MrM? [13:47] <cloudpic> And doing bad things.. even being evil doesn't mean you'd be a follower of Voldemort. [13:47] <Aislinn> Umbridge is more actively evil though, even though she is not a DE [13:48] <MafaldaWeasley> okay guys! It was fun, but I must go. Take care and see you tomorrow [13:48] <JaneMarple9> swm???? [13:48] <cloudpic> But it's hard to think of anyone but kids off hand... [13:48] <nympheart> bye Mafalda [13:48] <MrMcGonagall> Sirius' family are another good example, actually. [13:48] <Poet> yes - very [13:48] <nympheart> Snape's Worst Memory, Jane [13:48] <GranjoGranger> Most of the wizarding world is oblivious. [13:48] <cloudpic> Oh, yes, thank you Mr. McG. [13:48] <Aislinn> most of the wizarding world is sticking their collective heads in the sand, but she is out there, hurting and threatening others. [13:48] <JaneMarple9> ah nice! [13:48] *** MafaldaWeasley left #lounge [] [13:48] * Expelliarmas thinks old Archie likely isn't a death eater [13:49] <nympheart> lol, expie [13:49] <LilyFlower> I have to go see you all [13:49] <Expelliarmas> bye lily [13:49] <cloudpic> There are times I didn't think too highly of Sirius himself. [13:49] *** LilyFlower left #lounge [] [13:49] <nympheart> bye Lily [13:49] <JaneMarple9> smile archie of the flowery nightgown? smile [13:49] <Aislinn> poor sirius - a tragic case of arrested development and horrendous roots. [13:49] <GranjoGranger> Sirius is not always very adult. [13:50] <Poet> The Ministry letting Aurors use unforgivables in Volde War 1. There were some like Moody who tried his best to not use them, while others seem excited to do so [13:50] <Expelliarmas> yes, Archie likes his nightgown [13:50] <JaneMarple9> agreed [13:50] <MrMcGonagall> The gray area is pretty broad. [13:50] <cloudpic> That's true, Poet... [13:50] <Aislinn> Why do only Harry & Hermione say “no!” when Sirius wants to come to Hogsmeade? (Chamber 29) [13:50] <JaneMarple9> he's a teenager himself sirius [13:50] <ltbrave23> it really is [13:50] <Expelliarmas> because Ron never caught on [13:50] <cloudpic> They're the quickest to react [13:50] <cloudpic> to that sort of danger [13:50] <Aislinn> they are the only ones that caught the "dogging" reference by draco [13:50] <JaneMarple9> tryes agreed cloudpic [13:50] <Expelliarmas> Ron still thinks Sirius just needs a break [13:50] <nympheart> Ron probably didn't quite realize what that could mean for Sirius [13:50] <ltbrave23> yes he does [13:50] <Poet> Once Sirius makes up his mind he's hard to convince otherwise. They were trying to nip it in the bud This post has been edited by Poet: Apr 21 2007, 02:58 PM |
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Apr 21 2007, 02:58 PM
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Total Eclipse of the Elf Posts: 2,102 Joined: 4:47pm July 3, 2005 Location: Kansas City |
[13:51] <JaneMarple9> for once ron qas doing his homework
[13:51] <ltbrave23> i'm not sure nympheart [13:51] <MrMcGonagall> Harry cares deeply about Sirius, Hermione is aware of the risks, but Ron is a little slower on the uptake. [13:51] <ltbrave23> ron is a strategist afterall [13:51] <GranjoGranger> Sirius needs to stay hidden. Malfoy knows he is snuffles. All DEs know. [13:51] <Aislinn> and they know malfoy knows because of draco - ron didn't pick up on that [13:51] <JaneMarple9> sirius is much safer at grimmaulkd place! [13:52] <cloudpic> And Sirius doesn't seem to care that his re-capture would jeopardize everyone else. [13:52] <Aislinn> Why was Sirius so offended by Harry’s caution? Did Sirius mean to goad Harry into behaving recklessly when he compared James and Harry? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:52] <nympheart> when he can see it layed out he is, Ron hasn't really adjusted to strategizing life, i think that can be seen in Quidditch [13:52] <cbm> I think if Sirius had come, he would have been caught, [13:52] <Poet> Hermione is a rules person and follows Dumbledore's advice to the 'T'. Harry is concerned deeply for Sirius. Ron doesn't have those same immediate reactions [13:52] <Expelliarmas> I thought Sirius mentioning James and telling Harry he wasn't enough of James' son was petulant and petty [13:52] <ltbrave23> well, he adjusted in the end nymph [13:52] <JaneMarple9> he was sad that harry didn't have the same reactions as james [13:52] <GranjoGranger> Yes, he wanted a playmate. [13:52] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think I ever disliked Sirius more than I did in this moment. [13:52] <JaneMarple9> he confuses james with harry sometims [13:52] <cloudpic> Molly was right... he's mixed Harry up with James and is looking for immature support for his recklessness. [13:53] <Aislinn> I think that it was Sirius's way of venting his frustration - he was really feeling trapped and wanting to escape, and while he knew they were right, he was angry that they pointed reality out to him. [13:53] <cbm> I think he expected Harry to act like James wound and he still does not undtand that harry is not James [13:53] <JaneMarple9> yes yes yes cloudpic [13:53] <cloudpic> Sirius was terrible in that scene. Worse than Umbridge. [13:53] <nympheart> Sirius likes being around Harry, he was a bit hurt that Harry wasn't willing to risk his safety to see him in person [13:53] <Poet> Sirius is still enjoying his freedom and not being careful. It was hard for him to understand why a boy is treating him like a child [13:53] <cloudpic> At least her pain is physical and temporary [13:53] <ltbrave23> sirius had traded one prison for another, he wanted his freedom [13:53] <Aislinn> yes ltbrave23 [13:53] <JaneMarple9> yes ltbrave [13:53] <cloudpic> He wants what he wants no mater what the cost to others. [13:54] <Aislinn> and he didn't want anyone to try to remind him that he needed to remain there [13:54] <cbm> It is a good thing he did not come, we find out later that there are at least 2 people following Harry on Hogsmeade [13:54] <Expelliarmas> nothing prevented Sirius from playing with his own safety, I thought it was mean-spirited to goad Harry [13:54] <Aislinn> I wouldn't put it quite so harshly, cloudpic [13:54] * MrMcGonagall zips his lips to avoid lauching a torrent of abuse toward Sirius. [13:54] <cloudpic> I really lost respect for Sirius in this book. [13:54] <GranjoGranger> .Sirius is in a lot of emotional pain. He just wants out! [13:54] <Raldan> Give Sirius a break, he's spent enough time in Askaban, and is still a prisoner, I dion't know if I'd act much differently. [13:54] <Aislinn> Yes granjo, I completely agree [13:54] <Expelliarmas> I would, Aislinn. Sirius didn't think from Harry's point of view and what it would mean to Harry to lose Sirius [13:55] <cloudpic> Wanting his own way. Wanting something which hurts others. [13:55] <MrMcGonagall> It was hurtful thing to say to Harry that wounded him deeply. [13:55] <Aislinn> He was under incredible psychological stress. [13:55] <Poet> In Book 3 we hear about how reckless the Mauraders really were when they were students. Sirius has a friend (Harry) at Hogwarts and he's falling into that Mauraders mode again [13:55] *** Fumblelaw has joined #lounge [13:55] <nympheart> Sirius is very stressed, but he still knows how he should handle the situation, he just doesn't [13:55] <Aislinn> And how many of us can honestly say that we haven't lashed out at family member's when we have been frustrated [13:55] <Expelliarmas> Sirius could have left altogether. If his open freedom was so important to him, he should have done so [13:55] <nympheart> hi fumblelaw [13:55] <Aislinn> it is part of human nature [13:55] <cloudpic> If the only consequence to Sirius's recapture were his own pain, loss or death... I'd say go right ahead... but he knows others would suffer for it and wants it anyway. [13:55] <Raldan> Agreed, Aislinn [13:56] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, but Sirius never apologized [13:56] <cloudpic> You're right Aislinn, but Harry is a child...and vulnerable and Sirius is an adult no matter how arrested his development. [13:56] <cbm> Sirius wanted to stay where he could help harry, that is the only reason he is not back where he was at the beginning of GoF [13:56] <ltbrave23> but he also knew what was at risk expie, he was trying to balance his desire for freedom for what was better, and it resulted in him being quite harsh at times because in the end he knew harry was right and it was teh last thing he wwanted to hear [13:56] *** Fumblelaw has quit [Bye] [13:56] <cloudpic> He wanted to be in on the "action" [13:56] <Aislinn> He was sent to Azkaban at approx. age 22, and spent 12 years enduring an existence that most go mad or die from [13:57] <JaneMarple9> yes cloud totally [13:57] <Aislinn> and then he is released to a horrible home that brings back horrendous memories [13:57] <Raldan> And he's seeing the Mom mishandle everything, he's frustrated [13:57] <Aislinn> and is trapped there [13:57] <cloudpic> And before that he was raised in Grimmauld Place by the horrible Mrs. Black... but [13:57] <Poet> Hermione and Ron reacted harshly, and Sirius reacted a bit harsh in return. He was acting a bit like Ron actually. [13:57] <cloudpic> He still knows better. [13:57] <ltbrave23> a place he never thought he would see again aislinn [13:57] <Aislinn> because he is wrongly convicted and being hunted for something he did not do [13:57] <Poet> I meant Hermione and Harry [13:57] * cbm wonders why they did not think of polyjuice [13:57] <GranjoGranger> One minute he wants to help Harry. The next he wants to have him go on an adventure with him. [13:57] <Expelliarmas> So should Harry not put any stock in Sirius because he's now a nut; unfair to Harry to have to be the adult in the relationship [13:58] <Aislinn> I think he should be cut some slack for being testy as a result [13:58] <cloudpic> The blow he gave Harry was worse than simple testy-ness, I feel. [13:58] <MrMcGonagall> Given the remarkable lengths Sirius went to in order to be there for Harry over the past years, I found his comment about James childish and deliberately meant to wound. [13:58] <cloudpic> He hit his most senstive "button" [13:58] <Raldan> Hary can ake it. [13:58] <Expelliarmas> I agree on that cloudpic, he brought out James [13:58] <Aislinn> I think that part of being in a relationship with another human being is to allow them to vent at times, recognizing that it is more about themselves than it is about you. [13:58] <Raldan> take* [13:58] <GranjoGranger> It was a very low blow. [13:58] <Aislinn> of course it was, Mr M [13:59] <JaneMarple9> very unfair [13:59] <cloudpic> Yes, ultimately, Harry overcame it... but he should not have had to [13:59] <Expelliarmas> that wasn't venting, that was goading Harry into being reckless [13:59] <Aislinn> it bothers me that the characters in the books are not allowed to show human frailties [13:59] <cloudpic> And it set Harry up as Sirius's caretaker... which was used against Harry later [13:59] <Poet> Awesome chat! See you all tomorrow from 3 to 5pm Eastern U.S. time smile [13:59] <GranjoGranger> We're back asking where is the adult? [13:59] <MrMcGonagall> I think it was worse than goading - it was a massive guilt trip. [13:59] * JaneMarple9 prepares for the hugs! [13:59] <MrMcGonagall> Playing on Harry's love for his father. [14:00] <Expelliarmas> that's true, MrM [14:00] <Aislinn> it was a single comment, spewed out in frustration [14:00] <cbm> Sirius never had a chance to become an adult [14:00] <Aislinn> it was wrong, but understandable [14:00] <Expelliarmas> and Harry has to struggle to keep a rein on his own reckless tendencies [14:00] * Poet starts a group hug [14:00] * nympheart hugs Jane [14:00] <Raldan> He shouldn't have to meet LV face to face either, but he will, I think Sirius deserves a little latitude. [14:00] <cbm> bye [14:00] <MrMcGonagall> bye, everybody! [14:00] <JaneMarple9> (((All the corner boothers))))) [14:00] <Aislinn> me too, raldan [14:00] <Poet> cheers [14:00] <GranjoGranger> Bye had great fun! [14:00] <Aislinn> bye folks smile [14:00] <nympheart> group hug! [14:01] <JaneMarple9> and a special (((cloudpic)))) hug! [14:01] <cloudpic> ((hugs)) to all.... most especially those with whom I've disagreed!! [14:01] <Raldan> Bye all! Have a great day! [14:01] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [14:01] <Expelliarmas> bye folks, see you tomorrow [14:01] <nympheart> bye everyone [14:01] <cloudpic> (((Jane!))) [14:01] <ltbrave23> bye everyone!!! |
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