ReadingGroup Corner Booth Transcript: Apr 28, 2007, Order of the Phoenix chapters 15-16 |
 Apr 28 2007, 02:34 PM
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Official Lily and Stag Inns of Court Barrister  Posts: 2,511 Joined: 8:28pm June 4, 2006 Location: Staring at the Sea-Miami, Fla  |
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Reading Group Chat: The Toad Tries to Catch Flies–OOTP, Chapters 15 and 16. April 28, 2007 Today’s Chat Moderators Were: Aislinn, cloudpic, Expelliarmas, futureweasley, and Mr.McGonagall [12:59] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [12:59] *** Topic is: Reading Group Chat on Chapters 15 & 16, OotP [12:59] *** Topic set by MrMcGonagall [Thu Dec 7 20:19:15 2006] [12:59] -NickServ- Password accepted - you are now recognized. [12:59] *** mode/#lounge [+o Expelliarmas] by Snuffles [13:01] *** cbm has joined #lounge [13:01] <cbm> Hi everyone [13:01] <Expelliarmas> heya [13:01] <MrMcGonagall> Howdy, y'all! [13:02] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [13:02] <Aislinn> good afternoon! [13:02] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [13:02] <JaneMarple9> Hello all! [13:02] <Expelliarmas> heya, Jane [13:03] <MrMcGonagall> everyone ready for another amazing RG chat? [13:03] <JaneMarple9> nice to get in the booth without snuffles growling at us [13:03] <cbm> I am! [13:03] <JaneMarple9> Ready as always Mr McG [13:04] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [13:04] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Snuffles has been behaving himself better lately. [13:04] *** becky920 has joined #lounge [13:04] * MrMcGonagall knocks on wood [13:04] <becky920> Howdy, y'all! [13:04] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi becky! [13:05] *** Spectre has joined #lounge [13:05] <becky920> How's it going? [13:05] <Spectre> hi all, did I miss much? [13:05] <JaneMarple9> hi chocolate hi becky hi spectre [13:06] <JaneMarple9> just starting [13:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> omg, i just spent an hour putting together the most difficult-to-assemble little desk EVER [13:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I've got blisters on my hand and a cut on my thumb as battle scars [13:06] <cbm> ouch [13:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but it was only 40 bucks at walmart, and it's pretty gorgeous [13:06] <becky920> Was there an allen wrench involved? I hate those things. [13:06] <cbm> I like putting that stuff together [13:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i had substandard tools... my plus-head screwdriver was really short [13:07] <becky920> brb [13:07] *** Kneazly has joined #lounge [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i just got an iMac, so i needed an actual desk... my little laptop could go anywhere [13:08] <Kneazly> Hi all [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi kneazly! [13:08] <cbm> except for the occasional putting a piece in backwards and finding out when I am nearly done part [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that happened to me cbm! [13:08] <MrMcGonagall> I've been thinking about getting an iMac, chocolate [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but i ignored it [13:08] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I LOVE mine, MrM [13:08] <cbm> lol [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I'd recommend it [13:08] <MrMcGonagall> I have a Powerbook G3 right now. [13:08] <JaneMarple9> hi pleshette [13:08] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [13:08] <Kneazly> Hi Pleshette [13:08] * Expelliarmas uses a microwave cart for the computer desk [13:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah, i upgraded from a powerbook g4 [13:09] <Pleshette> Hi! [13:09] <nympheart> hello everyone [13:09] *** bemused has joined #lounge [13:09] <nympheart> hi bemused [13:09] <cbm> I am using my lap at the moment, the cat is not happy, she think she should be allowed to sit there, [13:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I need a good one because I do graphics and photography and 3d and all that stuff that requires a little somethign more than the average [13:09] <bemused> Hello! [13:10] <MrMcGonagall> The problem with Macs is that they just won't die. The only reason to upgrade is getting more oomph. [13:10] *** Nimthiriel has joined #lounge [13:10] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, Nim! [13:10] <nympheart> hi nim [13:10] <Nimthiriel> Hey guys [13:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah mrm... that's why i got an imac... i still use my g4, so i can be mobile AND have a desktop that's powerful [13:11] <Kneazly> Um, what does deop mean? [13:11] <Expelliarmas> a goof on my part, kneazly [13:11] <Kneazly> Oh, thanks. [13:11] <JaneMarple9> something painful [13:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha [13:12] <Expelliarmas> there's little pain in here [13:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> cbm, my cat is in my lap, on the little bit of space between me and the keyboard lol [13:13] <Kneazly> I just got a flat screen from work, and the cat is disappointed because she used to sleep on the old one while I worked. [13:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha [13:13] <bemused> my cat is on the windowsill, using the frame as a pillow... [13:13] <Expelliarmas> hmm, seems like the cat wanted the heat from the monitor [13:13] *** Questauthor has joined #lounge [13:13] <JaneMarple9> awww spoiling you cats fun Kneasley [13:13] <Questauthor> Hello everyone [13:13] <nympheart> my one cat will lay on the keyboard for the laptop and just sits there while it beeps nonstop [13:13] <nympheart> hi quest [13:13] <Pleshette> Hi Questauthor! [13:13] <Kneazly> Hi QA. My cats are out enjoying the sunshine right now. [13:14] <Questauthor> Hey nymph, plesh and others! [13:14] <JaneMarple9> hi questauthor [13:14] <nympheart> there's no sunshine here [13:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> my parents' deaf cat used to sleep on the subwolfer to our surround sound system, because she liked the vibrations [13:14] <cbm> My cat likes to try and play with the keyboard, so I keep her away, my typing is bad enough [13:14] <nympheart> my fingers aren't working properly because i just spent two and half hours in teh cold rain [13:14] <JaneMarple9> [13:14] <Kneazly> Mine likes to try to catch the cursor. [13:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> icky, nymph! [13:14] <JaneMarple9> no cat to blame for my bad typing! [13:14] <bemused> Mine too, Kneazly [13:15] <JaneMarple9> hey bemused [13:15] <bemused> Hello Jane! [13:15] <Expelliarmas> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [13:15] <Expelliarmas> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the /top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [13:15] <Expelliarmas> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [13:15] <Expelliarmas> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [13:15] <Expelliarmas> While it’s easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [13:16] <MrMcGonagall> The news of Umbridge's new title and powers spread quickly. Trelawney's inspection stinks. In DADA, Hermione decomposes Umbridge. Harry’s temper lands him another detention. McGonagall gives Umbridge a rough time. Umbridge uses CMC to try to get the dirt on Hagrid. Hermione asks Harry to teach DADA. After losing his temper, he promises to think about it. [13:16] <MrMcGonagall> Harry agrees to teach a few people and they meet up at the Hogs Head where everything and everyone is shady. A gaggle of students arrive–no Slytherins. Many came to hear about Cedric. A lot knew of Harry’s previous deeds. Cho was supportive. Everyone signs a paper agreeing not to blab about what they’re doing. [13:16] <MrMcGonagall> Thanks to Chamber 88 and Room 18–The Atrium for the introduction. Ready? Good, let’s chat about Chapters 15 and 16. [13:16] <MrMcGonagall> Can't Dumbledore do anything to stop Umbridge? Or does he choose not to? Why? (Chamber 88) [13:17] *** becky920 has quit [Bye] [13:17] <cbm> I would say can't [13:17] <Questauthor> I think he's chosing his battles [13:17] <Questauthor> and keeping his enemies close [13:17] <Expelliarmas> I think it's both [13:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I say he's biding his time... exactly Quest [13:17] <nympheart> I think he'd probably be able to play with her a little bit, but it might come back to bite him later, so he didn't [13:17] <Kneazly> Better to watch her and give her enough rope to hang herself. [13:17] <MrMcGonagall> I think he's trying to avoid making waves - doesn't want to give the Ministry any excuses. [13:17] <Questauthor> He might be using legemency to get info from Umbrige [13:17] <cbm> But he has been so hands off this year, maybe his actions here are another mistake [13:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think he might have done something if he knew that Harry was being injured during her detentions... [13:18] <Kneazly> I think so too, chocolate. he wouldn't let her shake Marietta. [13:18] <Nimthiriel> I think that he is trying to avoid anymore trouble [13:18] <Questauthor> I agree CINFB [13:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but Harry was kind of stubborn about telling Dumbledore, since DD was treating him [13:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ignoring him [13:18] <JaneMarple9> i think his hands are tied [13:18] <cbm> Until Voldemort is in the open and the ministry is no longer being influenced by Mayfoy, I am not sure what he can do [13:19] <Kneazly> If the ministry and the governors are allowing her to be there, there's probably not a lot he can do to get rid of her. [13:19] <JaneMarple9> but he'd be able to do something if harry had told him the way umbridge had been treating him etc [13:19] <Pleshette> I don't think there's much he can do either, like others have said, he'll choose his battles with her [13:19] <JaneMarple9> but harry's nor speaking to dumbledore [13:19] <Spectre> I agree about "enough rope" part - the Ministry, and Umbridge herself, did every possible thing to discredit themselves. [13:19] *** becky920 has joined #lounge [13:19] <nympheart> hi becky [13:19] <cbm> but who would believe him outside of DD, the ministry would proably say harry did it to himself [13:19] <Pleshette> like he does later on in the book [13:20] <Pleshette> I agree cbm [13:20] <becky920> sorry about that... got lost between the cabinets, I think. [13:20] <JaneMarple9> dumbledore knows fudge has put umbridge there for a reason [13:20] <MrMcGonagall> The Toad has students read in class, but nothing else. Is this teaching? Why or why not? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:20] <JaneMarple9> of course it's not teaching [13:20] <Questauthor> Not teaching. And it's clear DU is not a teacher. Not now, not ever. [13:20] <cbm> Not like any teacher I know [13:20] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [13:20] <Pleshette> No it's supervising [13:20] <nympheart> it's not teaching, it's abandoning the students to learn on their own [13:20] <Kneazly> No way is that teaching. She's lazy. [13:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> no - it's like reading about sewing, and then asking someone to make a handbag [13:21] <nympheart> hi cloud [13:21] <JaneMarple9> she is making them read and not pratice [13:21] <Pleshette> she's not teaching them a thing [13:21] <JaneMarple9> (((Cloudpic))) [13:21] <becky920> I had a college professor do that... I felt like I'd wasted my money for the course. I can read on my own time, thanks. [13:21] <Pleshette> Hi cloudpic [13:21] <cbm> It is more like a book club without the discussion [13:21] * cloudpic waves [13:21] <bemused> it's just crowd control [13:21] * JaneMarple9 waves back [13:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha, and a really boring book, cbm [13:21] <MrMcGonagall> It's pretty lame teaching. [13:21] <cloudpic> She certainly doesn't allow for varied learning styles either [13:21] <Questauthor> I mean, how much can you learn from just reading? Not bloody much [13:21] <cbm> And it is an awful book also! [13:21] *** Moriah has joined #lounge [13:21] <Expelliarmas> reading is what you do on your own time,! [13:21] <Pleshette> Hi Moriah! [13:21] <nympheart> hi moriah [13:22] <bemused> she doesn't even question them on the book [13:22] <Moriah> Hello all! [13:22] <JaneMarple9> even hermione didn't enjoy reading wilbert slinkhard methods [13:22] <MrMcGonagall> It highlights the fact that Umbridge really has nothing to teach them. [13:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if anything, it spurred the kids on to form a group... the ministry is very bad at predicting unintended consequences, something I learned in an intro class to politics [13:22] <Kneazly> It might not be so bad if there was discussion, but that's obviously discouraged. [13:22] <becky920> It's very Pink Floyd, isn't it? She's got a very cookie cutter method going on. It doesn't allow for individual learning styles. [13:22] <cloudpic> No, I think you're supposed to retain only 5% of material simply read, not practiced or discussed [13:22] <cbm> I can learn by reading, but that is not the same as being taught [13:22] <Pleshette> Right expie, as reinforcement of a practical lesson [13:22] <Spectre> I wonder how she still allowed Flitwick and McGonagall to actually teach new spells and other magical techniques... [13:22] <JaneMarple9> and that is saying something if hermione doesn't like a book! [13:22] <Expelliarmas> Otherwise, what's the point of going to class? [13:22] <cloudpic> Of course, she doesn't really intend to teach Defense against the Dark Arts... [13:23] <JaneMarple9> umbridge treats the pupils as if they are 5 years olds! [13:23] <Kneazly> Maybe she didn't see what McG and Fl. taught as defensive. [13:23] <Questauthor> I think given time, she'd have limited the other teachers from using spells as well [13:23] <cloudpic> she intends spy [13:23] <Moriah> Well, I didn't necessarily agree with what Hermione said about the book. A counterjinx really is just a jinx, right? [13:23] <becky920> And they're discouraged from thinking for themselves. [13:23] <Questauthor> she just ended up getting sidetracked by other issues [13:23] <Expelliarmas> I don't think she could teach her way out of a paper bag [13:23] <nympheart> I think that would annoy me more than anything else, Jane [13:23] <cbm> I think she only is going after the teachers that DD hired personally, so she let's them teach [13:23] <becky920> I think the mark of a good teacher is when a student has learned to come to their own conclusions, you know? [13:23] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, she questioned Snape's level of teaching - thought it too advanced. [13:23] <JaneMarple9> exactly expel!! [13:23] <Questauthor> Or she could have been waiting to catch them doing something counter MoM so she could fire them summarily [13:23] <cloudpic> She particularly goes after those who're less than confidant as well she's a bully [13:23] <Kneazly> I agree Moriah, but the intention is different. [13:23] <JaneMarple9> hi Moriah [13:24] <Moriah> Hi Jane! [13:24] <MrMcGonagall> “I think the appointment of the Inquisitor is a first step toward ensuring that Hogwarts has a headmaster in whom we can all repose confidence.” Who was this Ministry insider and what was the point of the quote? (Chamber 29) [13:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, the whole point of her going is to convince people that Voldemort isn't back, but it's poor planning to assume that the kids will never need to use the spells again... if another tyrant comes, their path would be paved if Umbridge and the ministry succeeded in their anti DADA class [13:24] <JaneMarple9> oh yes umbridge's a bully [13:24] <becky920> How much you want to bet it was actually Fudge himself or Percy? [13:24] <JaneMarple9> umbridge obviously? [13:24] <cloudpic> Well, we've only seen one "insider" in action... if by insider we mean someone not an employee? [13:24] <Moriah> I think Umbridge or Fudge [13:24] <Spectre> Malfoy? [13:24] <Expelliarmas> I think it was Umbrige. Too wordy for Fudge [13:25] <cloudpic> Malfoy, I think. [13:25] <MrMcGonagall> Could have been Percy [13:25] <Kneazly> I think it was either Fudge or Malfoy, and it's purpose is to insinuate that you can't trust Dumbledore. [13:25] <Moriah> I don't think Percy since his name was already quoted [13:25] <bemused> It sounds rather like Lucius, except he doesn't belong to the Ministry [13:25] <Nimthiriel> Could have been Umbridge [13:25] <cbm> Percy was quoted by name, so I do not think it is Percy [13:25] <Expelliarmas> "repose confidence"? not a phrase Fudge could use [13:25] <Pleshette> I think Malfoy [13:25] <JaneMarple9> hmmmm Lucius? [13:25] <becky920> "repose" sounds very Percy... maybe he said that line but asked it not to be attributed to him. [13:25] <cbm> Malfoy is a good bet [13:25] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, quite possibly Lucius. [13:25] <JaneMarple9> possible yes thats likr Lucius [13:25] <nympheart> Lucius would talk like that [13:25] <Pleshette> He's always sticking in nose in where it doesn't belong [13:25] <Moriah> Malfoy was quoted too and I'm not sure he is a MoM insider [13:25] <Aislinn> is he a Ministry insider? [13:25] <Pleshette> his [13:25] <JaneMarple9> he likes to keep on the Ministrys good side [13:25] <bemused> but I spose he's an 'insider' in the sense that he's always inside... [13:25] <Moriah> He doesn't work for the MoM [13:25] <cbm> Malfoy would qualify at this point with as much time as he spends there [13:25] <Aislinn> It sounds like Percy to me [13:25] <Expelliarmas> Lucius would be an "insider" [13:25] <JaneMarple9> he's a Azkaban insider now [13:25] <nympheart> maybe Aislinn, Umbridge favored Draco [13:25] <Pleshette> no...but his influential money talks [13:25] <Questauthor> I have absolutley no idea who it was! [13:26] <becky920> good point, JM9 [13:26] <Spectre> An insider shouldn't actually work for the company, as far as I understand [13:26] <cbm> It said insider, not employee of any type [13:26] <becky920> Surely it would have said employee if it was one [13:26] <cloudpic> Lucius certainly enjoys manipulating things at the Ministry [13:26] <Moriah> brb [13:26] <JaneMarple9> he does cloud [13:26] <Expelliarmas> Lucius has a reputation for being within the ministry [13:26] <Kneazly> Yeah, insider implys to me something with knowledge, but who doesn't actually work there. [13:26] <cloudpic> He was at Fudge's elbow after Harry's "trial" [13:26] <nympheart> with large quanitities of money [13:26] <Kneazly> Someone with knowledge, I mean. [13:26] <Questauthor> Could it have been Rufus S? [13:26] <JaneMarple9> i think he is bribing a few people in the ministry [13:27] <cloudpic> I agree, Jane [13:27] <MrMcGonagall> What did you think of the appointment of Umbridge as High Inquisitor? Percy said the staff did not accept Umbridge. Wouldn't this new position just widen the rift between her and her fellow professors? (Chamber 007). [13:27] <JaneMarple9> rufus? thats another possibility [13:27] <cbm> I think that he is influencing everything we see out of the ministry at this point [13:27] <Expelliarmas> no, I don't think it was scrimgeour, he's busy looking for Sirius [13:27] <Spectre> Doesn't sound like Scrimgeour, he's more straigthforward I think [13:27] <JaneMarple9> not thought of him [13:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Maybe Dumbledore allowed it all to happen, knowing that the Ministry would take away DADA to deny Voldemort's return... Dumbledore might have predicted that the kids would retaliate with a DADA club... it certainly taught them all more than they would EVER have learned from a teacher, AND it united the houses to work together [13:27] <cloudpic> Fudge would be an easy "bribe" target and so would Bagman [13:27] <becky920> Widen the rift? Sure... but now they're not free to complain. [13:27] <Aislinn> I don't think she cares in the least whether there is a rift between herself and the rest of the professors [13:27] <Spectre> The rift was widened on purpose, I think [13:27] <nympheart> Umbridge isn't very bright, she probably though her authority would make the teachers give up fighting her [13:27] <MrMcGonagall> It's completely designed to give power over the other staff to Umbridge. [13:27] <bemused> It would certainly widen the rift - but I s'pose the point is that it gives her authority over the other teachers [13:28] <Aislinn> She is all about power, not consensus [13:28] <MrMcGonagall> Absolute dictatorship - rule by decree. [13:28] <cloudpic> I'm not sure, chocolate, he'd not really want a Ministry spy inside Hogwarts [13:28] <cbm> I think they are all caught up in the fact that they have the power and they will flatten any opposition in the long rn [13:28] <cbm> run [13:28] <Kneazly> Yep, it's all about control. She doesn't care if they don't like her. [13:28] <bemused> so it doesn't matter so much if they accept her or not [13:28] <Expelliarmas> The Toad is not interested in having a relationship with the teachers; she wants to show them she's better than they are [13:28] <becky920> She's a control freak. [13:28] <Aislinn> exactly, expie [13:28] <Spectre> The pattern is simple - "inspection", then some conflict, firing - and another Ministry employee as a new teacher [13:28] <cbm> She wants to be a ruler, not a leader [13:28] <Kneazly> I absolutely hate this idea that someone who is not a trained teacher can inspect real teachers. [13:29] <Questauthor> I agree, Kneazly [13:29] <Spectre> Until all the teachers are from MoM and do what MoM says [13:29] <cloudpic> I can't get a mental "handle" on what she really wants... I know it's power, but power to what end? And she really seemed to want to get after Harry, even at the "trial" [13:29] <bemused> ... or if not 'firing', then interference with the things they teach [13:29] <Questauthor> I think she wants hogwarts [13:29] <becky920> We know JKR was once a teacher. You think she was trying to say anything with Umbridge's inspections? [13:29] <bemused> or the way they teach them [13:29] <Questauthor> That there is some magic at Hogwarts she wants her paws on [13:29] <cloudpic> But why does she want Hogwarts? [13:29] <JaneMarple9> umbridge didn't want to make friends [13:29] <Kneazly> Definietely, becky. [13:29] <JaneMarple9> she wanted to control! [13:29] <Questauthor> something that you can only use if you are headmaster or mistress [13:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but in Dumbledore's POV, cloudpic, Voldemort would be showing himself sometime, and the Ministry would eat their words... maybe the most important thing to Dumbledore was to get Harry to become a fighter, to keep him focused on being a leader and a unifier between the houses, which distracts him from the posibility of going to the DoM [13:29] <cloudpic> Does she know something we don't? [13:29] <cbm> So people are after power just for the sake of having it [13:29] <Spectre> She wanted control over young minds [13:30] <bemused> There is a UK element in this - teachers here are subjected to far more government interference and 'inspection' than they used to be [13:30] <JaneMarple9> yes spectre [13:30] <Questauthor> There are enchantments associated with the castle that are powerful [13:30] <Expelliarmas> I'm sure Jo had plenty of inspections by unqualified people when she was a teacher [13:30] <Spectre> Similar to Voldemort [13:30] <Kneazly> I thnk the ministry wants total control of Hogwarts--then they can tell them whatever they like. [13:30] <nympheart> yes spectre, but those minds were more mature than she thought in most cases [13:30] <cloudpic> That's an interesting possibility, chocolate, I'd not thought of Dumbledore as being so indirect... until this book... so it fits [13:30] <MrMcGonagall> Who came up with the idea of a High Inquisitor? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:30] <cloudpic> He wasn't direct with Harry at all in OotP [13:30] <Expelliarmas> yes, the Ministry and Voldemort want to control young minds [13:30] <JaneMarple9> umbridge aims to get dumbledores job i think [13:30] <nympheart> Umbridge [13:30] <Aislinn> I agree that she wants control - by controlling Hogwarts, she is controlling the information that shared with the students [13:30] <becky920> IntI'm sure it was Umbridge [13:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Umbridge was just a tool [13:30] <Expelliarmas> I think Umbridge suggested it to Fudge [13:30] <Pleshette> that's quite a chance he'd be taking chocolate...leaving the fate of the school in Harry's hands so to speak [13:30] <JaneMarple9> either umbridge or fudge [13:30] <MrMcGonagall> I think it was mostly the Toad's idea, and Fudge concurred. [13:30] <cbm> Fudge or Malfoy would be my guess [13:30] <cloudpic> I'd bet on it... though I'm sure she convinced Fudge he'd thought of it himself. [13:31] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [13:31] <Aislinn> yes, she probably suggested it to Fudge [13:31] <nympheart> I agree expie [13:31] <Spectre> Umbridge as a tool? Malfoy's? [13:31] <Kneazly> Got to go, back soon I hope. [13:31] <nympheart> hi fw [13:31] *** Kneazly left #lounge [] [13:31] <cbm> hi fw! [13:31] <futureweasley> sorry I'm late [13:31] <Expelliarmas> chances are good Lucius agreed with the idea [13:31] <Pleshette> Hi future! [13:31] <becky920> test [13:31] <Expelliarmas> heya, fw [13:31] <becky920> She probably made Fudge think it was his idea, but it's more likely hers [13:31] <JaneMarple9> hi there future [13:31] <cloudpic> Malfoy does use people... she'd not have to be a Death Eater to be used by one [13:31] <bemused> Malfoy has tried to get Dumbledore out before... [13:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> umbridge is being used by the ministry - I think the ministry is just using her thirst for power to dethrone Dumbledore [13:31] <becky920> Is she under the Imperius curse or acting on her own? [13:31] <bemused> Her own [13:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> own lol [13:31] <JaneMarple9> acting on her own [13:31] <Pleshette> her own [13:32] <Spectre> I think she's on her own [13:32] <cbm> Acting on her own [13:32] <Questauthor> But I still think the reason is to get Hogwarts under MoM control [13:32] <cloudpic> Malfoy lost his position on Hogwarts board of governors... maybe this was his way of keeping some control? [13:32] <Expelliarmas> Umbridge acts on her own, she doesnt need any help [13:32] <Aislinn> I think that umbridge has demonstrated initiative in taking control(dementors) and this is just another such step [13:32] <bemused> She's too foul to need imperius-ing [13:32] <MrMcGonagall> Good point, bemused. [13:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree, questauthor [13:32] <MrMcGonagall> LOL [13:32] <Aislinn> I don't think she needs anyone else to push her control agenda [13:32] <JaneMarple9> nobody could impersonate Umbridge - no one is evil enough!! [13:32] <cloudpic> It's a huge step... the Ministry has never controlled Hogwarts in hundreds of years' history [13:32] <JaneMarple9> except Voldie of course [13:32] <cbm> She is doing what she thinks is in Fudge's interests, but Fudge is being directed by Malfoy, so she is acting in the DEs interest [13:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I liked that we finally got a villian who wasn't working for Voldemort... it was a nice change to the norm [13:33] <JaneMarple9> the MOM have always wanted conreol of Hogwarts [13:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> *from the norm [13:33] <MrMcGonagall> Umbridge inspects three different classes, Divination, Transfiguration, and CMC. What do you think about her different inspection techniques in each instance? (Chamber 29) [13:33] <Spectre> I think it was triggered by Dumbledore's words at Harry's trial [13:33] <Moriah> back ... and well said cbm! [13:33] <MrMcGonagall> Umbridge inspects three different classes, Divination, Transfiguration, and CMC. What do you think about her different inspection techniques in each instance? (Chamber 29) [13:33] <JaneMarple9> very good. Trelawnley was frightened of umbridge [13:33] <Expelliarmas> well, in Divinitation she has nothing but disdain for Trelawney and it shows [13:33] <nympheart> she wanted to intimidate Trelawney, and did a good job of it [13:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Hahaa, her inspection of McGonagall gave me another reason to adore McGonagall [13:33] <cloudpic> The less confidant the teacher... the more invasive she was [13:33] <JaneMarple9> she let umbridge over-ryle her [13:33] <Aislinn> She knows how to go for the jugular - to exploit weaknesses [13:33] <bemused> In Transfigurations he doesn't really have a technique - it's wonderful [13:33] <nympheart> but McG made her look like a fool [13:34] <futureweasley> she's going after the people closest to Dumbledore...or the ones she believes she can find fault in [13:34] <Expelliarmas> in McGonagall, it seemed like the Toad was afraid of McGonagall, and it showed. A direct attack would not work there [13:34] <Moriah> We also heard about her inspection of Charms. Sounds like she got along fine with Flitwick [13:34] <cbm> She is being a bully and attacking the weak [13:34] <Questauthor> I love Minerva in this chapter [13:34] <JaneMarple9> while grubbly-plank wasn't intimated by umbridge - she wasn't bothered what umbridge wrote [13:34] <nympheart> I love Minerva in this book [13:34] <Questauthor> Plus Minerva is assistant Head Mistress [13:34] <Expelliarmas> In CMC, she's fishing for information [13:34] <Aislinn> McGonagall is not weak, so she could not use her usual weapons [13:34] <futureweasley> I agree nymph, McG put Umbridge though her paces, and it was awesome [13:34] <Questauthor> Need to get her out of the way so the stairway to the tower is open, so to speak [13:34] <cloudpic> Flitwick doesn't let anything get to him.... [13:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, it's why McG was attacked by ministry officials so quickly later in the book, i think. Umbridge hated her [13:34] <MrMcGonagall> McG is the one who turned the tables and intimidated the Toad. [13:34] <JaneMarple9> but Minevra - she dealt with it in her own unique way [13:34] <Moriah> Exaclty, Quest [13:34] <Questauthor> He's an even keel, our flitwick [13:34] <cloudpic> But Minerva lost her temper and her composure a bit [13:34] <JaneMarple9> I love the way Pro. McGonagall dealt with it [13:35] <Aislinn> she was awesome [13:35] <Questauthor> She has no tolerance for stupidity [13:35] <Spectre> In CMC, Umbdirge's also having some prejudices against Hagrid as a "half-blood" [13:35] <Moriah> Yeah, very true cloudpic [13:35] <futureweasley> yes cloudpic, she did...very un-Minerva ish [13:35] <Expelliarmas> ah, but that's what made it so cool for me, cloudpic; she did lose her temper [13:35] <becky920> She got mad, but she still didn't lose control [13:35] <Aislinn> put Umbridge right in her place [13:35] <JaneMarple9> She lost her temper Cloud? I think she controlled it reasonably well [13:35] <MrMcGonagall> I don't know, future. McG can be pretty snippy. [13:35] <Expelliarmas> it made McG seem more human to me [13:35] <Spectre> *Umbridge, that is [13:35] <cloudpic> As did I, someone needed to show the students that the teachers weren't all under Umbridge's thumb [13:35] <JaneMarple9> umbridge deserved putting in her place [13:35] <Moriah> I think she lost it a bit. But she's has a fiery personality [13:35] <Questauthor> But Minerva is snippy in even a casual convo [13:35] <cbm> I think she was just a little impatient [13:35] <Expelliarmas> i was glad it was in a roomful of gryffindors [13:35] <becky920> Well, she is a Gryffindor. [13:35] <futureweasley> Umbridge is a bit of a square peg in a round hole at Hogwarts...her place is rightfully outside the castle gates [13:35] <Questauthor> I didn't see it as a huge departure from her normal composure [13:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she's brave and true during that inspection, and is really showing her colors as the head of Gryffindor [13:35] <Aislinn> i think she was exerting her control over her classroom - I didn't see it as losing control at all. [13:35] <becky920> I don't think she was going to take Umbridge sitting down. [13:36] <JaneMarple9> and yes expel - it made McGonagall somebody to look up too [13:36] <Spectre> It's interesting what House was Umbridge when she studied at Hogwarts. Slytherin? [13:36] <Aislinn> She was pointing out the rules of her class, and that Umbridge was not exempt from them. [13:36] <JaneMarple9> I really loved Minevra in this chapter [13:36] <Questauthor> oooo good question! [13:36] <MrMcGonagall> How did you feel about Trelawney's inspection? Did it make you sympathize with Sybill? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:36] <Expelliarmas> no one knows, spectre [13:36] <cbm> She was also doing a fine juob of teaching! [13:36] <JaneMarple9> she's got to be slytherin yes! [13:36] <JaneMarple9> yes a little [13:36] <Questauthor> I had a hard time because I think sybil is a right old fraud, but I hated how Umbridge humiliated her [13:36] <Moriah> I don't know. She's very loyal. Could be a Hufflepuff [13:36] <futureweasley> I actually did sympathize with Trelawney [13:36] <bemused> Yes - poor Trelawney [13:36] <becky920> I think Trelawney would have come off better if she stood by her original "I'm not going to see on command" stance [13:36] <Questauthor> No one deserves to be humiliated [13:36] <Expelliarmas> I didn't feel badly for Trelawney; she really is a fraud [13:36] <Aislinn> I disliked Umbridge's treatment of Trelawney [13:36] <Pleshette> I did sympathize with her a bit because the inspection was so unfair [13:37] <bemused> I wouldn't normally say it, but... [13:37] <nympheart> I did feel bad for her, she doesn't know her subject properly, but she didn't deserve to be treated like that, Trelawney's not a bad person [13:37] <Questauthor> I agree becky [13:37] <JaneMarple9> but she let umbridge get the better of her - she let umbridge get the upper hand [13:37] <MrMcGonagall> Trelawney just doesn't have McG's backbone. [13:37] <cloudpic> She didn't inspect her teaching, she bullied her [13:37] <Questauthor> well, gotta go supervise pool swimming, folks. Later! [13:37] <futureweasley> well put, MrMcG [13:37] <nympheart> bye quest [13:37] <Expelliarmas> that's the problem, she has no nerve [13:37] <becky920> Bye, Questauthor! [13:37] <Expelliarmas> bye Quest [13:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I feel bad for her overall... the fact that she believes she was hired because of her skill when she was only truly hired by DD to keep her safe from Voldemort, because of the prophecy [13:37] <Moriah> Later Quest! [13:37] *** Questauthor has quit [Bye] [13:37] <cloudpic> That demand to produce a prediction was nasty. [13:37] <Pleshette> she's a fraud yes, but she didn't deserve to be treated that way [13:37] <futureweasley> there is no love lost between Trelawney and Umbridge [13:37] <bemused> the biggest mistake Trelawney made was to try to prophecy on demand [13:37] <Moriah> I agree, Pleshette [13:37] <JaneMarple9> she let umbridge bully her and umbridge more or less called her a fraud [13:37] <Aislinn> yes, bemused [13:37] <Aislinn> She stood have stood her ground [13:37] <cbm> I felt sorry for Trelawney, and I think that Trelawney is scared of being called a fraud, so Umbridge hit her fears [13:37] <Spectre> Maybe, Umbridge already had someone for the Divination position and wanted to get rid from Trelawney as soon as possible? [13:38] <becky920> I think Harry and Ron are funny, feeling sorry for her until she piles on the tragic predictions [13:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> right, cbm [13:38] <futureweasley> I used to feel that way, too, Pleshette...but HBP kind of turned me around about Trelawney [13:38] <cloudpic> It showed up Trelawney's own doubt in her abilities [13:38] <MrMcGonagall> Umbridge was deliberately trying to intimidate. [13:38] <nympheart> yes, cbm, she knows she's not as great as Cassandra [13:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> brb [13:38] <JaneMarple9> trlawnley isn't the best seer in the world...but she has her moments! [13:38] <MrMcGonagall> This was more than mere observation [13:38] *** Sophia40 has joined #lounge [13:38] <JaneMarple9> hi sophia [13:38] <Expelliarmas> Umbridge was enjoying the humiliation and intimidation she was inflicting on Trelawney [13:38] <futureweasley> it was a literal witch hunt [13:38] <Sophia40> Hi all! [13:38] <nympheart> hi sophia [13:38] <cloudpic> She was right in saying prophecy doesn't work on demand... bu [13:38] <cbm> I think she is a seer, but just does not understand her powers and overplays them [13:38] <becky920> I think she occasionally has kernels of truth she lets out. You just have to look for them. She sees, but she misinterprets what shesees [13:38] <Pleshette> Oh I don't like Trelawney at all future, I just thought it was awful for Umbridge to demand that she precict something on demand [13:38] <cloudpic> Yes, it reminded me of scenes from Arthur Miller's Crucible [13:38] <Expelliarmas> that's true, MrM, it was beyond an observation to an examination [13:39] <JaneMarple9> great comparison future! [13:39] <MrMcGonagall> She was trying to trip Trelawney up. [13:39] <Pleshette> SHe was trying to humiliate Trelawney, in front of students no less [13:39] <JaneMarple9> yes that was unfair pleshette [13:39] <bemused> that's the hideous thing with Umbridge - the pleasure she displays when someone else is squirming [13:39] <Pleshette> that's very unprofessional [13:39] <MrMcGonagall> Hem, hem, what did you think of the face-off between McGonagall and Umbridge? Do you agree with Harry that McGonagall shouldn't have lectured him about losing his temper when she was unable to curb her own temper? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [13:39] <Aislinn> yes, it is truly execrable behavior [13:39] <Expelliarmas> and the Toad was enjoying the impact on Trelawney. It was unseemly. [13:39] <JaneMarple9> I am not keen on trelawnley but there was no need to embrass her in front of the class [13:39] <cloudpic> The title Inquisitor harkens back to a rather ugly time in European history, no? [13:39] <cbm> Could her need to do this be caused by the fact that she was hired by DD? [13:40] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think McG really lost it. [13:40] <Aislinn> I don't either Mr M [13:40] <cbm> lag [13:40] <becky920> I'm not sure McGonagall totally did lose her temper. She got mad, yes... but she still was in control. When Harry lost it, he totally blew his top. [13:40] <nympheart> well, McG did show more control than Harry, even if she may have gotten mad [13:40] <Spectre> Yes, the title was chosen deliberately, I think [13:40] *** Sophia40 has quit [Bye] [13:40] <Pleshette> No there's a difference between the way Harry lost it and McG's anger [13:40] <bemused> But I'd say McG did keep her temper [13:40] <Aislinn> She was setting firm limits, as she always does [13:40] <cloudpic> I think she'd rather have been serene on the surface. [13:40] <bemused> She totally wrong-footed Umbridge and it was brilliant! [13:40] <MrMcGonagall> She put the Toad firmly in her place, she didn't scream at her. [13:40] <Expelliarmas> Well, McG did let her temper get the better of her. I mean offering the Toad a cough drop and saying no one speaks when she does [13:40] <Pleshette> I agree mr.mcg [13:40] <cloudpic> Her facial expressions etc. let everyone know she was ruffled. Harry saw it. [13:40] <cbm> I think that McG is in a position to defend herself, where Harry can't [13:40] <JaneMarple9> she was excellent! [13:40] <Spectre> A funny fact - "Inquisitor" was translated to a mere "Inspector" in Russian [13:40] <Aislinn> I don't see her as being someone who strives for serene cloudpic [13:40] <Pleshette> hee hee that line was great expie [13:41] <becky920> Really? That's odd, spectre [13:41] <JaneMarple9> It made me respect Prof. McGonagall even more [13:41] <Moriah> I think she was ready for Umbridge and she handled it well but I also think that she let her anger show [13:41] <bemused> Yes, Expie, but that controlled put-down with the cough drop is so much more effective than Harry's shouting [13:41] <Expelliarmas> but then, McG doesn't have to scream to make her point [13:41] <MrMcGonagall> In a battle of wills with McG, the Toad doesn't stand a chance. [13:41] <Aislinn> that wasn't losing her temper, expie, it was keeping the control. [13:41] <JaneMarple9> "Cough Drop Dolores" Classic line [13:41] <Expelliarmas> Harry hasn't reached that point [13:41] <cloudpic> Goodness, Spectre, that really is different! [13:41] <becky920> McGonagall outsmarted her. Plus it was her turf -- Umbridge was really being rude, and she let her know it. [13:41] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, you see just enough of McG's temper to see it boiling beneath the surface, but she doesn't explode. [13:42] <Aislinn> It was pointing out unacceptable behavior on Umbridge's part [13:42] <Aislinn> McG does not suffer fools gladly. [13:42] <nympheart> true expie, Harry's lack of maturity keeps him from being able to handle things like McG [13:42] <Expelliarmas> "I can hardly wait." great line [13:42] <Moriah> Was the cough drop line in this chapter? I was looking for it and I think I missed it... [13:42] <becky920> bingo, Aislinn [13:42] <JaneMarple9> it is the way Dumbledore should had dealt with Umbridge the night of the welcoming feast [13:42] <cloudpic> No, she certainly doesn't explode or we'd have seen a transformation... literal toad? [13:42] <JaneMarple9> but in his own unique way [13:42] <Spectre> The "cough drop" line was somewhere later in the book [13:42] <Moriah> ok, thanks, Spectre [13:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha cloudpic [13:42] <cbm> I thought it was in the career conference [13:42] <JaneMarple9> yes i think it was the "future carrers" part [13:42] <Aislinn> I think the cough drop line was during Harry's career thing [13:42] <Spectre> When Harry chooses his future career [13:43] <becky920> *snort* cloudpic... good point. We know McGonagall doesn't believe in transfiguration as punishment, though [13:43] <cloudpic> Rather like the bouncing ferret...hopping toad (I'd have liked that, quite) [13:43] <Moriah> Ah, I think you're right cbm! [13:43] <JaneMarple9> when harry aims to be a auror! [13:43] <MrMcGonagall> Is it a coincidence that Umbridge often inspects classes Harry is in? (Chamber 29) [13:43] <Expelliarmas> the cough drop was in the career counseling chapter [13:43] <cbm> No [13:43] <Aislinn> I don't think so [13:43] <JaneMarple9> oh so would i cloud! [13:43] <nympheart> I don't think it's a coincidence at all [13:43] <becky920> No, I think that's absolutely by design. [13:43] <cbm> It happens way too often [13:43] <nympheart> she's just trying to get him in more trouble [13:43] <Aislinn> I think she is keeping an eye on him and how the teachers interact with him [13:43] <JaneMarple9> no coincidence at all! [13:43] <MrMcGonagall> I think she wants to observe Harry as much as possible. Her reasons for the inspections are two-fold. [13:43] <bemused> I think we only see those because Harry is in them - she inspects others too [13:43] <Aislinn> As she sees him as a central threat [13:43] <becky920> On the face of it, she's inspecting "OWL level" classes, which are important. But she also gets to spy on Harry. [13:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> no, but we do hear of her inspecting the class of the weasley's... could it be the ministry is spying on ALL the weasleys? [13:43] <Expelliarmas> I think it is on purpose, to try and goad Harry into losing his temper [13:43] <cloudpic> No, I don't think it's a coincidence... she's at Hogwarts partly to watch Harry and his "truth" speaking [13:43] <JaneMarple9> once maybe but three times in one day?????? [13:43] *** janieb has joined #lounge [13:43] <MrMcGonagall> Good point, Becky. [13:43] <Expelliarmas> heya janieb [13:44] <Spectre> Did she ever [13:44] <nympheart> hi janieb [13:44] <Spectre> "inspect" the Muggle studies, Astronomy or Ancient Runes? [13:44] <Spectre> Or Arithmancy, for that matter [13:44] <cbm> Probably [13:44] <becky920> We don't know since Harry hasn't told us. [13:44] *** janieb has quit [Bye] [13:44] <Expelliarmas> I don't think the Toad ever made it to inspecting history of magic [13:44] <bemused> We've never 'sat in' on any of those classes [13:44] <cloudpic> She must have done, but Harry's our "eyes" in the book [13:44] <JaneMarple9> she must had been busy "inspecting" [13:44] <Aislinn> I think she uses the inspections for a number of purposes - to determine who is on the Ministry's side, who is on Harry's side, and to try to goad Harry [13:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she inspected the twins class... do we know which subject it was? [13:44] *** janieb has joined #lounge [13:44] <MrMcGonagall> Charms [13:44] <JaneMarple9> she probably concentrated on the classes Harry was in [13:45] <Expelliarmas> we know she did charms, because the twins told us [13:45] <Spectre> Hermione could've told about Arithmancy inspection, but she didn't, so Umbridge probably didn't [13:45] <Moriah> I think she wanted to fire as many people as possible too ... that's another layer to it [13:45] <bemused> She probablly wouldn't inspect History because he's a ghost [13:45] <JaneMarple9> but a few where the weasleys were in - try and get some dirt of Arthur too [13:45] <janieb> hello! [13:45] <cloudpic> I agree, Expie... she didn't head for the NEWT level classes first thing either [13:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey janie [13:45] <Pleshette> Hi janie! [13:45] <JaneMarple9> hello janie [13:45] <bemused> he'd be oblivious to the whole thing [13:45] <becky920> Well, she seems to single out Fred and George, in addition to Harry, so maybe it's them. [13:45] <Nimthiriel> And What could they possibly learn about in History that would be harmful to the ministry, if DD was trying to teach them how to fightt [13:45] <becky920> She probably knows they're up to something. [13:45] <cbm> I would love to see a scene with her talking to Binns about the inspection, she would probably think it was the perfect class [13:45] * becky920 snores [13:46] *** princessmela has joined #lounge [13:46] <Aislinn> she does seem to recognize that the Weasleys are loyal to Dd and Harry, so is out for them as well. [13:46] <JaneMarple9> well f & g are known trouble makers! [13:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> do you think Percy might have asked her to keep an eye on them? ohhh, that'd kill me [13:46] <nympheart> hi mela [13:46] <Pleshette> Hi princessmela! [13:46] <princessmela> Hi [13:46] <MrMcGonagall> Does anyone else think it's odd that in Hermione's 5th year she is still unaware of the grading scale? Wouldn't these be the same grades they'd been receiving on their exams since they started at Hogwarts? (Chamber 007). [13:46] <JaneMarple9> hello mela [13:46] <JaneMarple9> not all that suprising [13:46] <Pleshette> Oo chocolate that's a possibility [13:46] <Moriah> I think Percy might have been asked, choc ... and it is a credit that he didn't [13:46] <Aislinn> i would think she would have learned it from Howats a History, before she ever arrived [13:46] <becky920> I'm guessing the OWLs are marked differently, just like the ACT and SAT are scored much differently than the typical ABCDF scale [13:46] <Expelliarmas> or maybe it just took Jo this long to come up with a grading scheme [13:46] <JaneMarple9> they are the first really really big exams [13:46] <princessmela> I figured that they would be in Hogwarts: A History [13:46] <nympheart> Snape said he graded like OWLs for that one essay, so apparently it's different [13:46] <Spectre> I think the only marks Hermione ever got were Outstanding [13:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha i thought it was odd, but i was like "well, it had to be explained to the readers, and Hermione would be the most interested" [13:47] <MrMcGonagall> It's a tough sort of thing to work into the story at any point. [13:47] <cbm> I think it is odd, but I really think that was just JKR telling us the scale, much like we learned to pronounce her name in GoF [13:47] <JaneMarple9> we have heard about Percy taking his OWLs and NEWTs [13:47] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, cbm [13:47] <cloudpic> I thought perhaps the OWLs were marked differently? [13:47] <Aislinn> I agree, cbm [13:47] <princessmela> Perhaps, they are kept a secret of sorts [13:47] <Spectre> So she didn't know about "Awful", "Troll" etc [13:47] <Pleshette> brb [13:47] <Moriah> brb again [13:47] <cloudpic> Oh, I like that, cbm [13:47] <becky920> Any Brits in here? Is there a similar exam or test at that same level of school? Does the grading scale compare to the OWL scale at all? [13:47] <cbm> I think troll was a joke, but a good one [13:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, cbm [13:47] <JaneMarple9> it is a little like the way the British exams are graded - the O levels [13:47] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione has probably never seen anything but an "O" anyway. LOL [13:48] <cbm> lol [13:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> didn't harry get a T in history or astronomy on the official transcript? [13:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [13:48] <Spectre> Agree here, MrM [13:48] <Expelliarmas> Hermione would be crushed with anything less than Os [13:48] <becky920> I thought three failing grades was excessive [13:48] <MrMcGonagall> She knew that one, for sure [13:48] <bemused> Yes, Becky - 'O' levels are graded in A.B.C, type grades now [13:48] <JaneMarple9> I think she would have been disappointed with snapes grade [13:48] <Expelliarmas> well, maybe the 3 failing grades were on a scale to give hope [13:48] <JaneMarple9> might be her worse memory for book 5 [13:48] <princessmela> Did Harry get a "T" or was it just an unacceptable? [13:48] <becky920> I thought it was a poor or a dreadful [13:48] <bemused> NEWTS correspond to 'A'levels - which were always graded with letters [13:49] <nympheart> Harry got a D for History [13:49] <JaneMarple9> I think there really is "T" grade [13:49] <nympheart> maybe you should ask Crabbe and Goyle, Jane [13:49] <JaneMarple9> but probably stands for terrible [13:49] <princessmela> I was about to say the same thing nymph [13:49] <MrMcGonagall> What do you think about the idea of the students teaching themselves Defense? Is it wise? Would there have been a better alternative? Does it make you think of the French Resistance? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:49] <nympheart> lol [13:49] <cloudpic> Not a better idea in the book! [13:49] <JaneMarple9> very wise [13:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha, no it's real! and it's troll! i'm looking at HBP... it defines the grades at the top of the transcript [13:50] <Aislinn> I think it was a reasonable solution to the problem of Umbridge [13:50] <cbm> It is the only way they will learn [13:50] <janieb> awesome! [13:50] <JaneMarple9> if umbridge isn't doing their job properly [13:50] <Aislinn> As they realized, they needed to learn to defend themselves any way they could [13:50] <Expelliarmas> I think it had a certain daring [13:50] <cbm> thank chocolate [13:50] <JaneMarple9> let harry do the job instead [13:50] <nympheart> the MoM didn't want them to think of defense with the "rumors" that LV was back [13:50] <cloudpic> Thanks, chocolate, that's wonderful [13:50] <Spectre> Practice was the only possible way to learn the defensive spells [13:50] <MrMcGonagall> I don't see any other option for them. [13:50] <Aislinn> It was also an important step for Harry, in becoming a leader [13:50] <becky920> I thought it was dangerous, but brilliant. The stakes are very high here, if they're caught [13:50] <bemused> It was a good idea - good for Harry too, delveloping his skills like that [13:50] <princessmela> I think it was all about keeping the kids in the dark. That turned out to be a bad thing [13:50] <MrMcGonagall> vive la resistance! [13:50] <JaneMarple9> daring yes reckless yes - but sensible too! [13:50] <cloudpic> I soo agree, Aislinn! That was vital [13:51] <bemused> Can't say it reminds me of the French Resistance, though... [13:51] <janieb> me too, Aislinn! [13:51] <JaneMarple9> the pupils have to learn how to defend themselves [13:51] <Expelliarmas> it was also very resourceful and a way for them to meet their own needs [13:51] <cloudpic> And it gave students outside Gryffindor a chance to see him in action [13:51] <princessmela> and the truth of it is..it wasn't just the MOM that was keeping them in the dark. Dumbledore and the order did it to! [13:51] <cloudpic> And, does it foreshadow House unity? [13:51] <JaneMarple9> yes cloud [13:51] <janieb> it was the first real coming together [13:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i thought it is human nature... that's why i think Dumbledore allowed Umbridge to come, because history shows that her actions would cause the students to unite [13:51] <JaneMarple9> showed them that harry wasn't mental! [13:51] <cbm> The french resistance would not have met in a pub where anyone could hear them [13:51] <Aislinn> yes, cloudpic, it may be an important step in that direction [13:51] <nympheart> it's also amazing what that ended up doing for Neville [13:51] <JaneMarple9> yes perhaps yes, houses uniting [13:51] <princessmela> I wonder if there were any Slytherins in the DA? [13:51] <becky920> Well, the French Resistance were a lot smarter about it, true -- but these are teenagers. [13:51] <Expelliarmas> none [13:51] <Aislinn> Harry is one who unites people - the opposite of his nemisis, who works to spread enmity and discord [13:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> there weren't, princess [13:51] <nympheart> nope, no Slytherins, mela [13:52] <JaneMarple9> no slytherins attending though were there - i wonder why! [13:52] <Spectre> No Slytherins were mentioned [13:52] <cloudpic> I don't think they invited any Syltherins [13:52] <bemused> I love the fact that Neville led the other kids into the Hogs Head [13:52] *** RudiusHagrid has joined #lounge [13:52] <JaneMarple9> [13:52] <nympheart> hi rudius [13:52] <Aislinn> they probably didn't know any/trust any well enough to include them [13:52] <Spectre> Maybe, Umbridge DID actually teach something to the Slytherins, privately? [13:52] <cloudpic> The other Houses don't know Syltherins well... so it'd be hard to trust them [13:52] * becky920 fangirls Neville [13:52] <RudiusHagrid> ello [13:52] <Expelliarmas> heya, rudius, long time no see [13:52] <princessmela> I think Blaise Zambini would have at least came to the meeting [13:52] <nympheart> maybe for her Inquisitorial squad, spectre [13:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if she was indirectly under orders from Lucius Malfoy, I'd totally see that happening, Spectre [13:52] <cloudpic> Only if she knew about it princess, and they likely didn't invite her [13:53] <princessmela> Isn't Blaise a guy [13:53] <Expelliarmas> yes [13:53] <cbm> Blaise is make [13:53] <becky920> I hate to do this but I need to run... it's naptime for a certain little boy at my house and I'm the enforcer! Carry on. [13:53] <cbm> male [13:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> bye becky! [13:53] <nympheart> bye becky [13:53] <Expelliarmas> bye becky [13:53] *** becky920 left #lounge [] [13:53] <Spectre> bye becky [13:53] <bemused> bye backy! This post has been edited by Expelliarmas: Apr 28 2007, 02:39 PM --------------------  All Aboard! |
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Apr 28 2007, 02:36 PM
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Official Lily and Stag Inns of Court Barrister Posts: 2,511 Joined: 8:28pm June 4, 2006 Location: Staring at the Sea-Miami, Fla |
[13:53] <janieb> bye, Becky
[13:53] <RudiusHagrid> bye becky [13:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha [13:53] <bemused> *becky [13:53] <princessmela> but yeah they probably didn't even know he wasn't a Deatheater until book 6 [13:53] <MrMcGonagall> What is the significance of Hermione saying Voldemort’s name? Why does that have a calming effect on The Boy Who Lived? (Room 18–The Atrium) [13:53] <princessmela> I think Harry assumes all Slytherins are deatheaters! [13:54] <princessmela> It means she's not afraid anymore [13:54] <bemused> It's an act of defiance - albeit a small one [13:54] <RudiusHagrid> its important to harry that people take this seriously [13:54] <cbm> I think it showed that she was not afraid [13:54] <JaneMarple9> I think we're all of the same opinion with the slytherins and the new gang [13:54] <Expelliarmas> It marked a change for Hermione. [13:54] <Nimthiriel> Well probably because knowing that others dont fear LV as much would be a relief.. [13:54] <cloudpic> Bravo Hermione! She's really trying to de-mystify Voldie and support Harry [13:54] <nympheart> people not saying his name separates them from him, Hermione saying it sort of let him know that he's not alone after all [13:54] <JaneMarple9> and hello there Rudius [13:54] <janieb> she's telling Harry that she really understands what's at stake [13:54] <Spectre> Harry learns that there's at least someone who doesn't fear Voldy THAT mach to fear even say his name [13:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> because it's enforcing Dumbledore's belief that fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself [13:54] <Pleshette> It's very significant. She's not allowing the fear of the unknown take hold of her [13:54] <RudiusHagrid> and the fact that everyone gets worked up by the name alone made him uneasy [13:54] <cloudpic> I agree, nympheart... [13:54] <princessmela> I don't know why Hermione wouldn't say it...that always seemed odd to me [13:54] <JaneMarple9> yes hermione is trying to explain the enigma of Voldemort [13:55] <cloudpic> It's another step for Hermione in breaking from "rules" [13:55] <RudiusHagrid> she was pandering to common sensibilities [13:55] <Aislinn> me too, princess -she didn't grow up with the fear the wizard born did [13:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, she read about what he did, mela.... maybe she read horror stories that caused her to hop on the bandwagon [13:55] <JaneMarple9> and how brave of her - a half blood saying the name [13:55] <nympheart> i think maybe hermione really wanted to fit in with the wizarding world, being muggleborn, and that's why she got into the habit of fearing his name [13:55] <Spectre> It's more an unwritten "rule", all that You-Know-Who stuff [13:55] <cbm> Actually I think she is being brave, bravery to me is funtioning in spit of fear [13:55] <Pleshette> it gives more power to Voldemort by fearing his name [13:55] <JaneMarple9> yes ron knew the stories about voldemort [13:55] <cbm> spite [13:55] <Expelliarmas> I don't think she was pandering. She was obeying something of a social rule [13:55] <Aislinn> yes cbm [13:55] <janieb> are there other ways she gives into peer pressure? [13:56] <princessmela> you think she was giving into peer pressure [13:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she does for Harry and Ron sometimes... they can persuade her [13:56] <cloudpic> I didn't think her stutter and speaking the name was faked... I think she'd really come to fear to speak it too, just as Wizard-born s [13:56] *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] [13:56] <RudiusHagrid> well this is not as much peer preassure as the way things are done [13:56] <JaneMarple9> yes cloud [13:56] <Pleshette> Although I think it was probably easier for her to begin using his name rather than Ron who grew up with the stories of the first war [13:56] <Expelliarmas> I think so as well, cloudpic [13:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and she knew it would get their attention... a daring way to begin their club that, in itself, would be a huge rule-breaker [13:56] <Aislinn> it is possible her reading of the horrors he perpetrated made her fear him as much as a wizard born would do [13:56] <janieb> that makes sense Rudius [13:56] <Expelliarmas> yes, and it did stop Harry in his rant [13:57] <princessmela> Honestly though what do you think Mrs. Weasley would say if Ron started calling him Voldemort [13:57] <princessmela> I mean it's almost a swear word [13:57] <Expelliarmas> I think Molly would get over it [13:57] <nympheart> Molly had better get over it [13:57] <cloudpic> she'd shudder... but I reckon she does when Dumbledore uses it too [13:57] <JaneMarple9> molly will say it soon enough [13:57] <Aislinn> she hears Lupin and Sirius say the name, as does dd [13:57] <cloudpic> Remember her brothers were killed [13:57] *** Kneazly has joined #lounge [13:57] <RudiusHagrid> Molly knows its best to call him by his name [13:57] <janieb> too right, nymphheart [13:57] <Kneazly> Hi, back again. [13:57] <nympheart> wb kneazly [13:57] <JaneMarple9> "My sons - defeating Voldemort! I am so proud of them! " [13:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> bye everyone! good chat! [13:58] <RudiusHagrid> but she is so scared she cant bring herself to [13:58] <Aislinn> bye chocolate [13:58] <Expelliarmas> bye choc [13:58] <cbm> bye [13:58] <Kneazly> bye chocolate [13:58] <nympheart> bye chocolate [13:58] <JaneMarple9> bye chocolate [13:58] <Nimthiriel> bye chocolate [13:58] <janieb> bye choc [13:58] <RudiusHagrid> bye choc [13:58] <Pleshette> I agree Rudius [13:58] <Spectre> I think it's late to say that... but Umbridge seems to be old enough not to take Transfigurations classes from McGonagall (she asks her for how long she's at Hogwarts), so it seems that Dumbledore taught her at one point [13:58] <JaneMarple9> she has reasons to be scared - voldemort killed her brothers [13:58] <princessmela> Maybe she failed Transfiguration [13:58] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [13:59] <princessmela> and is bitter about it and that is why she hates Dumbledore [13:59] <JaneMarple9> perhaps spectre [13:59] <RudiusHagrid> true, she has good reason to, but the same reasons could apply for her to be more agressive in fighting him [13:59] <JaneMarple9> but perhaps she attended a different wizarding school? [13:59] <princessmela> there are others in Britian? I'm still confused about that [14:00] * cloudpic thinks it was a rather stagnant pond out back [14:00] <JaneMarple9> there might be [14:00] <MrMcGonagall> Boy, that Hermione is some witch! Making up a soothing potion for Harry. What do you think is the significance of the Murtlap concoction? Of Harry dropping the bowl and not being able to retrieve it? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [14:00] <cbm> not that we are told about [14:00] <nympheart> lol cloud [14:00] <RudiusHagrid> no i think Umbridge attended Hogwarts [14:00] * JaneMarple9 ignoring cloud's comments about England [14:00] <RudiusHagrid> lol [14:00] <nympheart> well, it's definitely magical if it wasn't retrievable [14:00] <Spectre> The Murtlap concoction, as far as I remember, was later used by Fred and George [14:01] <Spectre> or I'm mistaking it with something? [14:01] <nympheart> I think it was Lee, spectre [14:01] <JaneMarple9> it might be to calm harry's nerves too [14:01] <cloudpic> The Murtlap potion [14:01] <princessmela> I don't even remember that! [14:01] <bemused> to cure their boils [14:01] <Aislinn> it was used by lee [14:01] <JaneMarple9> and to put him in a good mood [14:01] <cloudpic> Cardinal said: -Hermione gives Harry murtlap for the injuries Umbridge gave him. [14:01] <Aislinn> but lee told them about it, and they used it for their boil problem [14:01] <cloudpic> thenHarry recommended it to Lee [14:01] <janieb> b/c Harry gave it to Lee [14:01] <Expelliarmas> yes, this originates with Hermione [14:01] <cloudpic> then lee suggested it to the twins [14:01] <Aislinn> right [14:01] <JaneMarple9> she wanted to persuade him to teach them so tried to sweeten him up [14:01] <princessmela> I'm a bit uneasy about some of these remedies honestly [14:01] * Expelliarmas thinks Hermione should become a healer ... [14:02] <cloudpic> then the twins made the snack boxes work [14:02] * JaneMarple9 agrees with Expie [14:02] <nympheart> I don't think she'd do well as a healer, she freezes in a crisis [14:02] <cloudpic> so they could Disrespect umbridge and leave! [14:02] <janieb> great point, Expie! [14:02] <cloudpic> I love Cardinal's circle there! [14:02] <Kneazly> As far as dropping it and not be able to retrieve it--it does reflect his state of mind. He's constantly becoming calmer then exploding again. [14:02] <RudiusHagrid> thats not a problem really [14:02] <JaneMarple9> I can't see the Twins using murtlap essence - too "tame" for them [14:02] <Expelliarmas> no, I Hermione has grown up quite a bit, she's not doing a lot of freezing in a crisis [14:02] <janieb> ditto, cloud [14:02] <princessmela> I think she wants to work for wizarding relations or something. [14:02] <Spectre> To follow in the steps of her parents, to become a healer? [14:02] <RudiusHagrid> you freese in a crisis if youre not used to it [14:02] <JaneMarple9> it does good - not cause chaos [14:02] <RudiusHagrid> over time you learn to deal with it [14:02] <princessmela> I think she'll be an activist [14:03] <bemused> Ohoh - time I went - bye everyone! [14:03] <JaneMarple9> she'd be a good teacher too [14:03] <Expelliarmas> bye bemused [14:03] <nympheart> bye bemused [14:03] <princessmela> or a liason with Muggles [14:03] <cbm> bye [14:03] <Spectre> A public person [14:03] <janieb> bye bemused [14:03] <Kneazly> bye bemused [14:03] <RudiusHagrid> by bemused [14:03] <Spectre> Liaison with elves? [14:03] <Pleshette> bye bemused [14:03] <princessmela> Yes very much so spectre! [14:03] <MrMcGonagall> Not being able to retrieve the murtlap is perhaps a sign of the pain that Harry must continually bear with him. There's little relief. [14:03] <princessmela> Bye bemused [14:03] *** bemused left #lounge [] [14:03] *** rjsgirl has joined #lounge [14:03] <JaneMarple9> or even a member of the wizengamot fighting for elf rights! [14:03] <cloudpic> They used murtlap for the "fix" side of their snack boxes [14:04] <Pleshette> that's a good point Mr.McG [14:04] <Aislinn> nice metaphor, Mr M [14:04] <JaneMarple9> interesting cloud. [14:04] <MrMcGonagall> Jo said we should look into DD’s family history. Albus and Aberforth work at places with Hog in the name. Jo also said when she was playing around with names for Hogwarts she wanted Hog in there. So is there more to this animal than meets the eye. Is there some connection between the Dumbledore Brothers and Hogs? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [14:04] <Expelliarmas> remarkable how smart the twins are to use the murtlap for their snack boxes [14:04] <janieb> do you have to be in the Mom to be on the Wizengamot? [14:04] <princessmela> I think she could be a liason with Muggles or elves basically anyone who is misunderstood in the wizarding world [14:04] <MrMcGonagall> Jo said we should look into DD’s family history. Albus and Aberforth work at places with Hog in the name. Jo also said when she was playing around with names for Hogwarts she wanted Hog in there. So is there more to this animal than meets the eye. Is there some connection between the Dumbledore Brothers and Hogs? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [14:04] <nympheart> hmm, interesting idea [14:04] <JaneMarple9> I've never noticed the connection - Hog's Head and Hogwarts [14:04] <princessmela> I still say DD is related to that one death eater in HPB [14:05] <Expelliarmas> It would be nice if Jo gave us more of a family history to look into [14:05] <cloudpic> That's a great question.... but Hogs? [14:05] <Spectre> There's also Hogsmeade, of course [14:05] <nympheart> the blonde one, mela? [14:05] <JaneMarple9> it could be a very interesting connection [14:05] <JaneMarple9> yes Hogsmeade [14:05] <janieb> and they both have lots of names [14:05] <cbm> I like the idea, but we do not have enough info, if it was called the Goat's head, that would be another story [14:05] <cloudpic> Odysseus's men were turned to Swine by the Sorceress... but that's the only hog I remember from mythology [14:05] <princessmela> yeah the blonde one [14:06] <Spectre> Jesus put the demons into a flock of swines after his exorcism [14:06] <princessmela> his name was long and began with an "A" I don't remember...but it was like he was teasing him [14:06] <nympheart> I can't think of anything else either cloud, except "pearls before swine" [14:06] <Pleshette> I have no idea about a connection, but I do think it's interesting that the 3 places begin with "Hog" [14:06] <nympheart> ah, spectre beat me to it [14:07] <cloudpic> There must be something to it... it's too deliberate [14:07] <janieb> very interestng, Pleshette [14:07] <JaneMarple9> apparently Hogshead is a large cask [14:07] <princessmela> maybe she just likes Hogs [14:07] <Pleshette> lol [14:07] <Spectre> Hogwarts are some flowers, if I remember correctly? [14:07] <cloudpic> Yes, Huck Finn slept in a Hogshead when he was on his own [14:07] <cbm> I once looked for hog and pig connections, but could find nothing that led me anywhere interesting [14:07] <nympheart> hmm...boars are one of the chinese zodiac [14:07] <cloudpic> Aren't they some kind of lily? [14:07] <Kneazly> Aberforth--Aber means river, I think, and Forth is a river in Scotland, and archaicly forth means to go out from. Don't see where that gets us, though. [14:07] <JaneMarple9> not sure! [14:07] <cloudpic> That [14:08] <Pleshette> yes cloudpic I think so [14:08] <cloudpic> s true, nympheart... but I don't know the river [14:08] <JaneMarple9> if so - anoter connection to Lily [14:08] *** RudiusHagrid has quit [Bye] [14:08] <MrMcGonagall> Why does Harry insist that his abilities/victories are the result of luck? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [14:08] <cloudpic> err... I mean meaning! Haha... reading and typing mixed [14:08] <princessmela> I'm naming my daughter Lily..I just felt like saying that [14:08] <nympheart> he's modest [14:08] <cbm> wikipedia says a hogs head is a large cask [14:08] <cloudpic> Because he really believes that. [14:08] * cloudpic love the idea, princess! [14:08] <Pleshette> yes cloudpic I agree [14:09] <janieb> I agree, cloudpic [14:09] <nympheart> he doesn't see himself as special [14:09] <Moriah> back ... I think he felt to say otherwise would be an insult to Cedric and others who were killed by LV [14:09] <Spectre> He doesn't want to attract too much attention, he's had enough of that [14:09] <princessmela> I agree...he doesn't think he's very talented [14:09] <princessmela> I don't know I think a part of him loves attention [14:09] <cloudpic> Oh, yes, Moriah... that was a big part of it. [14:09] <Aislinn> he is modest, and clear eyed about how the events happened [14:09] <cbm> He sees himself as normal and a normal child would need luck to survice what he has, so in his mind all of it was luck [14:09] <JaneMarple9> he doesn't think the others will want to be taught by him [14:09] <Kneazly> It's sort of like when he couldn't believe he was a wizard--here he can't believe he's solely responsible for these events [14:10] <JaneMarple9> he underestimates his talents [14:10] <Expelliarmas> maybe that's why Harry isn't full of himself, he sees himself rather modestly [14:10] <princessmela> I don't see why he doesn't think he could help the others [14:10] <cloudpic> He doesn't understand how his talent and intuition work for him... so he just attributes it to luck [14:10] <Pleshette> I like how it's his friends who see him as the talented wizard that he is and point this out to him [14:10] <Spectre> He doesn't want to sound like Lockhart [14:10] <princessmela> I mean at the very least he could teach them to do the patronous [14:10] <Kneazly> I agree cloudpic [14:10] <nympheart> I think that "luck" is part of Lily's Love [14:10] <cbm> I like that cloudpic, [14:10] <janieb> great parallel Kneazly [14:10] <princessmela> hmm nymph that's interesting.. [14:10] <cloudpic> I loved that he'd started to plan lessons even before he agreed, though... natural teacher! [14:10] <JaneMarple9> yes cloud [14:10] <Expelliarmas> I also think though it devalues his talents, so he needs to get over it [14:10] <Moriah> The thing is, he isn't always modest. Think how he felt after Ron got the prefect badge. He was thinking of all the things he had done and Ron hadn't [14:11] <JaneMarple9> so obvious that he likes the idea! [14:11] <princessmela> He should be a teacher, cloud! I see that more than I see him as an auror [14:11] <JaneMarple9> it gives him something to focus on [14:11] <nympheart> Jo said he won't be a teacher though [14:11] <JaneMarple9> instead of umbridge [14:11] <cloudpic> I hope someday, princess... after the "War" [14:11] <cbm> I think that he wanted the badge and that was a normal reaction [14:11] <cloudpic> rats. [14:11] <princessmela> I thought she said he won't be one while a student [14:12] <nympheart> i think she said he won't go into education [14:12] <Kneazly> Maybe, too, he knows you can't defeat LV just with spells, and he's trying to convey that to them. He doens't recognize that his talent comes into play [14:12] <MrMcGonagall> What did you think of Hermione’s approach to getting Harry to reconsider teaching them DADA? Why did Hermione wait two weeks to approach the subject anew? Why didn't Ron support her efforts initially? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:12] <princessmela> Give him time to think about it [14:12] <cloudpic> Hermione learning patience... nice [14:12] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [14:12] <princessmela> hi future [14:12] <futureweasley> hello [14:13] <Aislinn> I think that Hermione recognized that Harry needed to adjust to the idea [14:13] <Kneazly> Hi future. [14:13] <Spectre> Ron initially just didn't want to get more homework [14:13] <janieb> it seems she's doing her best to understand his feelings right now [14:13] <cbm> I think ron was acting just like he did when Hermione went after the twins by not taking her side in the open [14:13] <princessmela> I'm not sure why Ron didn't support it..that is interesting [14:13] <JaneMarple9> because she wanted harry to think it over [14:13] <Pleshette> She didn't want to push Harry. Gave him time to think about it [14:13] <JaneMarple9> not force him into it [14:13] <Aislinn> and Ron had been burned by his temper too often that he didn't want to put himself in its path again [14:13] <Kneazly> Ron keeps his head down whenever he thinks something might not get a great reception. Alfter all, he has to share a room with him! [14:13] <nympheart> I think Ron didn't want to upset Harry, they spent a good part of the previous year not talking [14:13] <princessmela> maybe he thought it was another one of her crazy pointless ideas like SPEW [14:13] <JaneMarple9> Bad echo Pheshette [14:13] <Aislinn> I think ron thought it was a great idea, but wasn't going to push if Harry didn't want to [14:14] <Expelliarmas> I think Hermione gave Harry plenty of time to think about teaching DADA and to chill out [14:14] <JaneMarple9> yes aislinn [14:14] <Spectre> Funny, but Harry immediately thought of SPEW when Hermione first offered him to teach, Princess [14:14] <rjsgirl> Ron reminds me of his dad [14:14] <Pleshette> Bye everyone...great chat [14:14] <Kneazly> Bye! [14:14] <nympheart> bye pleshette [14:14] <rjsgirl> his dad seems to cower before Molly at times [14:14] <princessmela> I was so mad at Hermione when she started to back down because Sirius liked the idea [14:14] <futureweasley> bye Pleshette [14:14] <janieb> bye Pleshette [14:14] <princessmela> bye pleshette [14:14] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [14:14] <Moriah> See ya Pleshette! [14:15] <MrMcGonagall> What do you think is happening between Hermione and Krum? Why was she embarrassed to tell the boys about him? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [14:15] <princessmela> that I have no clue! [14:15] <JaneMarple9> they are just pen friends [14:15] <futureweasley> lol [14:15] <cbm> I think they were just pen pals at this point [14:15] <JaneMarple9> nothing more! [14:15] <nympheart> I think that one long letter was them breaking up [14:15] <Kneazly> Embarrassed because she knows how Ron will react. [14:15] <Expelliarmas> What an intriguing throw away line--Hermione and Krum have been writing to each other [14:15] <Moriah> I think she just knew how weird Ron was about it all. I think they're just friends [14:15] <JaneMarple9> they share the same interests! [14:15] <princessmela> maybe he is working for the order... [14:15] <futureweasley> I agree Kneazly [14:15] <janieb> it seems Ron reastion was what embarassed her [14:16] <Aislinn> We have an interesting essay coming in the upcoming issue of Scribbulus about Hermione and her feelings for Viktor(and Ron) [14:16] <Moriah> I think it also sets up that Krum might help out later since he's still friendly with Hermione [14:16] <JaneMarple9> she didn't want ron to start his victor krum rant like the year before [14:16] <Moriah> Cool, Aislinn! [14:16] <cbm> sounds like a good topic [14:16] <futureweasley> I think she knows what transpired between them, and even though that is no longer an issue, she doesn't want to rehash the corner's report (so to speak) [14:16] <janieb> intersting!\ [14:16] <Kneazly> I think they're just friends, but maybe Krum would like more. I bet it will come up in book 7. [14:16] <rjsgirl> that's a good thought Moriah [14:16] <JaneMarple9> yes Moriah thats possible [14:16] <Aislinn> it is - check it out next week [14:17] <princessmela> I will..I have always been curious about Krum, Aislinn [14:17] <janieb> that whould bring more needed untiy tino the WW [14:17] <Spectre> I think there was something that the girls usually tell only to their closest girl friends [14:17] <JaneMarple9> me, personably, I'm bored with Krum! [14:17] <Aislinn> that was Dumbledore's goal, janieb [14:17] <futureweasley> Hermione is extremely private [14:17] <nympheart> I agree spectre [14:17] <Moriah> Oooh, I love Krum! [14:17] <princessmela> but why does she blush though..that just seems odd [14:17] <JaneMarple9> He is only good at Quidditch...yawn [14:17] <Spectre> She could tell Ginny, for instance, but not to any of the boys [14:17] <Kneazly> I bet Ginny knows! [14:17] * Moriah has a soft spot for the Bulgarians [14:17] <nympheart> me too Moriah [14:17] <Aislinn> I think she's conflicted about her feelings over Krum and Ron [14:17] <futureweasley> I actually disagree, Kneazly [14:17] <JaneMarple9> maybe aislinn [14:18] <Aislinn> and isn't going to be open about it with the two of the boys [14:18] <futureweasley> she might have a few details, but I bet she doesn't know a lot [14:18] <princessmela> I don't think she has a crush on Krum...Harry maybe but Krum [14:18] <futureweasley> Hermione is just so to herself [14:18] <Moriah> I think you're right, Kneazly. She knew Hermione had kissed Krum [14:18] *** rjsgirl left #lounge [] [14:18] <MrMcGonagall> Conspicuous in their absence at this meeting were the Slytherins. Had a Slytherin shown up, do you think that student would have been welcomed? Who would have been for and against admission? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:18] <JaneMarple9> ginny and hermione had probably had a few "boy" discussions! [14:18] <Moriah> That was in HBP, right? I'm not just making that up? [14:18] <Spectre> By the way... how do you pronounce "Krum"? By rules of Russian/Bulgarian grammar, it's pronounced like it's spelled - [krum] [14:19] <JaneMarple9> haven't got a clue [14:19] <Kneazly> Yes, Moriah. [14:19] <nympheart> Somehow I don't think they would have been popular [14:19] <Expelliarmas> The majority of the students would not have wanted any Slytherins present [14:19] <cbm> almost everyone would be against at first [14:19] <MrMcGonagall> Would have raised some eyebrows. [14:19] <Expelliarmas> Hermione would have argued for it on the basis of house unity [14:19] <princessmela> They might have been better recieved in HPB but not in OOTP [14:19] <Moriah> Spectre, I lived in Bulgaria for a while. The name Krum was pronounced like Kroom [14:19] <Moriah> Not like bread crumb [14:19] <JaneMarple9> I can't see any of them being welcomed - but there MUST be some good Slytherin students [14:19] <cbm> I am not sure who would be for it, that is a harder question, maybe hermione [14:19] <Aislinn> I don't think any of them are trusted enough to have been given the information [14:19] <Expelliarmas> the Ravenclaws would have listened to the arguments [14:19] <Spectre> I think that nobody even told the Slytherins about the DA [14:19] <Kneazly> And the way they were gathered together was by word of mouth--friends. nobody seems to be friends with the Slytherins. [14:20] <nympheart> yes expie, and Harry probably wouldn't like to say anything, but Ron would have objected [14:20] <Expelliarmas> I think you're right, spectre. No one trusts them enough to tell them about clandestine DADA classes [14:20] <JaneMarple9> If Malfoy, Crabbe or Goyle had turned up, the meeting would have been in chasos [14:20] <princessmela> I think they would have cancelled it [14:20] <princessmela> I'm surprised that Malfoy didn't somehow find out about it [14:20] <Expelliarmas> Oh, they would have kicked the Slytherins out [14:20] <JaneMarple9> Chaos* too [14:20] <janieb> bat bogey hexes and whatnot [14:20] <Expelliarmas> not canceled the class [14:21] <princessmela> yeah but they could pretend they wanted to join [14:21] <Kneazly> I don't think they would have held the meeting just then--after all, they didn't want to publicize what they were doing [14:21] <princessmela> lol [14:21] <nympheart> Dung would have been amused [14:21] *** Shoshana has joined #lounge [14:21] <JaneMarple9> oh yes janie - bat bogey hexes going everywhere! [14:21] <cbm> I think they would have talked about other subjects and waited for them to leave [14:21] <futureweasley> right, no Slytherins would have even been invited to join [14:21] <nympheart> hi shoshana [14:21] <Shoshana> hey [14:21] <princessmela> I mean how did they invite all of these students to begin with [14:21] <JaneMarple9> no the slytherins wouldn't be included [14:21] <princessmela> It just seems odd that no slytherins found out [14:21] <MrMcGonagall> What did you think of the fact that Neville was the first person through the door at the Hog’s Head for the meeting? (Room 18–The Atrium, cloudpic) [14:21] <JaneMarple9> because the majority of them supported umbridge [14:21] <Moriah> Hermione spread the word, right? [14:21] <Expelliarmas> I also think Hermione wouldn't trust the Slytherins also, house unity would not have carried the day [14:22] <JaneMarple9> neville has some guts! [14:22] <Expelliarmas> I think Hermione spread the word, along with Ginny [14:22] <futureweasley> it endeared me all the more to Neville [14:22] <nympheart> Neville certainly has guts and a desire to fight back against Umbridge and learn [14:22] <Aislinn> Neville is determined to fight the forces that damaged his parents [14:22] * cloudpic waiting for Neville's supporters to applaud [14:22] <JaneMarple9> yes future [14:22] <Kneazly> Neville is so eager to learn, and to support Harry and DD [14:22] <princessmela> Neville likes to feel like he belongs [14:22] <princessmela> I think that is part of it [14:22] * nympheart applauds [14:22] *** potterfan45 has joined #lounge [14:22] <janieb> the crowd goes crazy! [14:22] <nympheart> hi potterfan [14:22] <Spectre> Neville wanted to learn, and he was sure Harry would teach him good [14:22] <MrMcGonagall> Neville's finding a sense of purpose. [14:22] <cbm> I think that neville wanted to learn, to get vengence for what happened for his parents [14:22] <cloudpic> funny that Neville's pet is a toad... but he braves the Toads's displeasure [14:22] * JaneMarple9 applaudes loudly for her favourite character in the whole series!! [14:22] <Expelliarmas> Neville is a lot nervier than people think [14:22] <princessmela> hi potterfan [14:22] <Shoshana> I'm sure Neville's grandma's diehard belief in DD and Harry had something t do with it ... he's probably thinking this is at least one thing he can do that his grandma agrees with [14:22] <potterfan45> hi [14:23] <JaneMarple9> Neville is showing everyone that he believes in harry [14:23] * cbm applauds also [14:23] <nympheart> I'm not sure if he would have discussed it with Gran first or not [14:23] <Expelliarmas> heya, potterfan [14:23] <potterfan45> hey [14:23] <princessmela> I doubt he did nymph [14:23] <futureweasley> Neville is sick of being the "weak" one...he is a hard worker, and the right teacher, he knew, would make all the difference [14:23] <Shoshana> no, I mean his grandma has already told him she supports DD [14:23] <JaneMarple9> can't see him doing that Nymph [14:23] <cloudpic> Yes, Neville's gran has had some failings with him, but not in regard to teaching him loyalty [14:23] <Expelliarmas> I think his Gran would have been thrilled [14:23] <JaneMarple9> Neville is starting to do his own thing [14:23] <cloudpic> I agree, Expie [14:23] <Aislinn> I agree expie [14:23] <janieb> well said, Expie [14:23] <JaneMarple9> yes she would expie [14:23] <Spectre> Harry and Lupin were the best teachers Neville ever had... except for Sprout, of course [14:23] <princessmela> I don't know if she would or not...I doubt she would want him to get expelled [14:24] <cloudpic> Neville has demonstrated courage from Book 1, but this reminds us what he's capable of in a small way so we aren't startled later [14:24] <janieb> nice, Spectre! [14:24] <cbm> She also may not think him capable enough to be there [14:24] <nympheart> I think keeping her son's legend alive means more to her, princess [14:24] <Aislinn> I think she is most concerned with him following in his father's footsteps, and that means supporting dd and acting bravely [14:24] <Moriah> Hm, good point princess. But I think she's happy to stand up for what is right [14:24] <cloudpic> I don't think Neville's gran would tolerate Umbridge...she cancelled her subscription to the Daily Prophet [14:24] <Moriah> Right, Aislinn [14:24] <MrMcGonagall> Was it fair of Harry’s classmates to expect an explanation as to Cedric’s murder? Do you think Hermione anticipated this or not? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:25] <Kneazly> yes, cloudpic [14:25] <Expelliarmas> I think Hermione knew this was coming [14:25] <janieb> the cirst time I cried in Hp when when he got his new wand [14:25] <Spectre> With all the hype around it, it was fair [14:25] <nympheart> I think Hermione knew that would happen [14:25] <futureweasley> I don't know if "fair" is the word...but I do think that Harry should have been better prepared for that [14:25] <JaneMarple9> yes it is [14:25] <Shoshana> I don't think Hermione knew. [14:25] <cloudpic> If I had been a student there, I'd have wanted to know more and that's the truth. [14:25] <cbm> I do not think it is fair, but I bet they have been waiting to ask him all year [14:25] <Aislinn> I understand their curiosity [14:25] <Expelliarmas> But it was time for Harry to face it [14:25] <JaneMarple9> they ddn't have a clue what happened the previous year [14:25] <Kneazly> Of course everyone wants to hear the story from the source [14:25] <nympheart> I think the students felt entitled to know, and I can't say they were wrong in that [14:25] <JaneMarple9> they wanted explanations [14:25] <cloudpic> They're being asked to take way too much on faith alone [14:25] <Moriah> I think it's better that they asked him instead of taking everyone else's word for everythign [14:26] <cloudpic> Good point, Moriah [14:26] <MrMcGonagall> I think Hermione sort of knew, but she didn't tell Harry to expect it. She should have. [14:26] <Spectre> And if Harry wouldn't provide the explanations, I doubt they'd believe in him more than they'd believe in Umbridge [14:26] <janieb> everyone's reactions are understandable--but in the end I agree with Expie [14:26] <Kneazly> If she'd told him, he might not have come. [14:26] <Spectre> It would be another "Because I told you so" [14:26] <Expelliarmas> I think she did the right thing in not telling Harry. This is something else Harry has to learn to do. [14:27] <Expelliarmas> It's part of his evolution as a leader. [14:27] <cbm> I actually think it surprised Hermione, I think should would expect everyone to come just for the chance to learn [14:27] <Moriah> Exactly, Spectre [14:27] <cloudpic> Yes... and he measured up learned something about himself [14:27] <Moriah> That's a good point, cbm [14:27] <Kneazly> yes, expie. harry has to learn to see from other people's point of view, even though he knows what he's saying is right [14:27] <Shoshana> I agree with cbm, but that doesn't mean it wasn't *also* a good learning experience for Harry and Hermione [14:27] <MrMcGonagall> But I think Hermione is a bit more attuned to what other students are thinking than Harry. [14:28] <nympheart> usually, yes MrM [14:28] <princessmela> Really you think that? [14:28] <janieb> Cho's reactions at this meeting show me she is interested in harry for himself as well as his connection with Cedric [14:28] <Kneazly> Yes--Hermione is more mature that way, Mr. M. [14:28] <nympheart> except with SPEW [14:28] <princessmela> I mean she isn't very popular..but maybe she pays more attention to thier actions [14:28] *** Nimthiriel has quit [Bye] [14:28] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione is an excellent observer. [14:28] <Aislinn> she is, Mr M [14:28] <Shoshana> I think she was a bit surprised the idea turned out to be so popular ... she didn't foresee the interest in Cedric's death, so it was surprising so many people wanted to come [14:28] <JaneMarple9> hermione trys to be the boss [14:28] <cloudpic> Hermione's people skills are quite good.... but I think Harry's will eventually prove to be better. [14:28] <Kneazly> Hermione is pretty good at interpreting other people's feelings. [14:29] <JaneMarple9> but harry leads the meeting [14:29] <cloudpic> He did, Jane. [14:29] <Aislinn> I think they are shown to be, once he starts teaching cloudpic [14:29] <Shoshana> Hermione started it off [14:29] <MrMcGonagall> I think Hermione knew how Harry would react to the number of people and the questions they had, so she didn't tell him. [14:29] <futureweasley> yes MrMcG [14:29] <Moriah> I don't think Hermione tries to be boss. She just tries to keep things under control and everyone focused [14:29] <cloudpic> He's amazingly intuitive considering his early years. [14:29] <MrMcGonagall> What did you think of Hermione’s statement about the MoM worrying about Dumbledore building an army? (Room 62442–The Brain Room) [14:30] <cloudpic> She's a task leader [14:30] <futureweasley> Hermione is bossy, but I think that she was trying to intervene and help the meeting go as she planned [14:30] <Kneazly> And Harry needs her to do that, Moriah. Otherwise they'd get bogged down. He does actually respond pretty well, i think. [14:30] <Expelliarmas> It seems like it was on the money. [14:30] <Moriah> Right, future and Kneazly [14:30] <Aislinn> yes, I think she was exactly right [14:30] <cbm> It is correct! And shows what idiots the MoM are! [14:30] <cloudpic> Isn't that what Sirius said? [14:30] <Moriah> I think she's right too. And ... hahah, I was just going to say that cloudpic [14:30] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Hermione definitely had the Ministry's number on this one [14:30] <cloudpic> Or somebody? [14:31] <Spectre> The MoM aren't idiots, they're rather misguided [14:31] <futureweasley> I think that it shows that, even to some 15 year olds, the Ministry was transparent [14:31] <cbm> I think it was Sirius [14:31] * cloudpic can't remember much, Leaky brain [14:31] <Moriah> I think it was Sirius when he floo-called [14:31] <cloudpic> Thanks, cbm, Moriah [14:31] <cbm> He is the only adult they have really talked to since school started [14:31] <Expelliarmas> Hermione, however, doesn't take Sirius at face value. [14:31] <Spectre> And enclosed in their small world without Voldemort [14:31] <Expelliarmas> at least not these days [14:31] <Kneazly> The ministry is busy focusing on conspiracy theories instead of important stuff. Loved the kids' reactions--dumbfounded at the stupidity of it. [14:31] <Moriah> True, but she agreed in this instance [14:32] <janieb> I can't figure out why they are so paranoid--DD keeps turning the MoM down to be in charge [14:32] <cloudpic> No, but she agrees with him when what he says seems well founded.... she reads her Daily Prophet [14:32] <cloudpic> I had trouble with that too, janieb [14:32] <JaneMarple9> whats the questions? [14:32] <Shoshana> plus Umbridge's classes add evidence to her that what Sirius said is true [14:32] <Moriah> And she knows that he has even more access to info as an Order member [14:32] <Expelliarmas> Because Fudge wants to save his office and he thinks the only way to do so is to suppress thoughts of LV's return [14:32] <Spectre> The Ministry's actions remind me in a way of the "people's enemy" hunting in Stalin's days, except nobody was tortured to give the "right" testimony [14:32] <cloudpic> Remember how focused Hermione was on Umbridge's opening speech at the Welcome Feast? [14:33] <MrMcGonagall> This is a pivotal chapter for Harry. What was your opinion of how Harry handled himself in the meeting? How do his actions in this chapter set him up for HBP and then DH? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:33] <Kneazly> Or the Red Scare and McCarthyism, Spectre. [14:33] <cloudpic> And Minerva confirmed that Hermione was right to Harry (who may have apssed it along) [14:33] <Shoshana> I think Umbridge *tried* to torture people to give the right testimony [14:33] <JaneMarple9> yes she really really listened to it [14:33] <nympheart> he's establishing himself as a leader [14:33] <Aislinn> I think that Harry stepped up in this scene - I was proud of him. [14:33] <Expelliarmas> This is *the* chapter where Harry becomes a leader [14:33] <JaneMarple9> she seemed to find it significant [14:33] <cbm> I think he did very well in the meeting [14:33] <cbm> \ [14:33] <JaneMarple9> yes expie absolutely [14:33] <cloudpic> He started out uncertain... but then did what his instinct told him was "right" [14:34] <Kneazly> He controlled his temper, even when he thought people were disbelieving him, eg. zacharias [14:34] <Expelliarmas> before, things simply happened to him and around him; now he's actively doing something for himself [14:34] <Aislinn> yes, cloudpic, his instincts are good ones [14:34] *** potterfan45 left #lounge [] [14:34] <cloudpic> Typical Harry... unplanned but excellent [14:34] <Spectre> Harry pretty much began like Lupin [14:34] <Moriah> I think he's become more and more of a leader throughout the series and this just made it official, so to speak [14:34] <Expelliarmas> His classmates now see him as a leader [14:34] <futureweasley> I am generally impressed that a kid could keep his composure and wit about him under such peer scrutiny [14:34] <Kneazly> Yes, Expie--that's why OotP is one of my favorties--because harry does more than just react to circumstances [14:34] <Spectre> Lupin, I think, also wasn't totally sure when he began his first classes [14:34] <cloudpic> I think teaching the DA class also taught him to do some planning ahead... first for class later [14:34] <Aislinn> He is a natural leader - people are drawn to him, and trust him(with good reason) [14:34] <cbm> Through his deeds he is also a leader [14:35] <Aislinn> at least the people who bother to get to know him. [14:35] <cloudpic> charisma... Harry's got it that undefineable "something" [14:35] <Aislinn> yes [14:35] <futureweasley> right Aislinn...despite all the crap, he is still well respected. That in itself is miraculous [14:35] <JaneMarple9> lupin was probably unsure in book 3 yes [14:35] <JaneMarple9> after the first two diasters [14:35] <Moriah> You think so? I think Lupin rocked [14:35] <Expelliarmas> also, everyone got to learn about his past deeds. which, given the gossip at Hogwarts, means everyone else will learn about it now [14:35] <Shoshana> anyone has to respect someone who everyone claims is a liar and a nut and yet tries to do something [14:36] <JaneMarple9> oh harry's got "something" agreed cloud! [14:36] <Aislinn> good point, expie [14:36] <cbm> These people have seen him everyday for 4 years, so the smart ones will think better of him [14:36] <princessmela> maybe he took the job, in part, to be close to Harry [14:36] <MrMcGonagall> What did you make of Cho’s actions during the meeting? Do you think Cho was looking to talk to Harry after the meeting? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:36] <janieb> Cho's reactions at this meeting show me she is interested in harry for himself as well as his connection with Cedric [14:36] <Aislinn> definitely [14:36] <futureweasley> probably [14:36] <cbm> I think she was [14:36] <Shoshana> yup [14:36] <cloudpic> It was wonderful... the praise he got sort of paralleled his earlier inner rant about being unappreciated [14:36] <Kneazly> Oh, yes, Mr.mcG. She's trying to signal her interest. [14:37] <JaneMarple9> yes cho really wanted to talk with harry [14:37] <futureweasley> I think Cho is a very confused and hurt girl...she needed some help to let Cedric go. Harry, unfortunately, was Cho's fixation at that point [14:37] <nympheart> I think so, and Harry certainly appreciated her presence at the meeting [14:37] <princessmela> I think Cho definitely was trying to get Harry's interests [14:37] <cloudpic> She had seemed to like him before Cedric, but Harry was slow on the uptake [14:37] <princessmela> Of course, Harry was clueless! [14:37] <nympheart> yes fw, a very complicated relationship [14:37] <futureweasley> totally complicated [14:37] <Kneazly> I think having Cho there supporting him helped harry keep his temper during the meeting, too. [14:37] <futureweasley> I totally agree Kneazly [14:37] <Moriah> Yeah, good point, Kneazly [14:37] <Expelliarmas> Cho, aka the Hosepipe... gets on my nerves. Flirting with Harry when she's not gotten over Cedric. [14:38] <princessmela> I think she fell for Cedric though..which made the relationship with Harry pretty much doomed [14:38] <JaneMarple9> and me expie [14:38] <cloudpic> Neither Harry nor Cho really know one another well enough... it's rather superficial [14:38] <Moriah> Well said, princess [14:38] <JaneMarple9> nothing but a walking hosepipe! [14:38] <Shoshana> she probably thought she was over Cedric ... she's just confused [14:38] <futureweasley> what's a 16 year old girl to do, expie? [14:38] <cloudpic> You're likely right, princess [14:38] <nympheart> I don't think she's sorted out her feelings at all, expie, so even though she's annoying, I can't blame Cho [14:38] <Moriah> Aw, Cho has her qualities [14:38] <Shoshana> people skills [14:38] <JaneMarple9> name me some! [14:38] <janieb> I think their relationship never caught a break [14:38] <cloudpic> Cho is a Seeker too, no? [14:38] <Kneazly> I didn't find it odd--I think some of her attraction to harry is based on the idea that he shares some of her confusion about Cedric. [14:39] <JaneMarple9> except quidditch [14:39] <Shoshana> she has people skills [14:39] <Moriah> She's good enough at Defense to do well [14:39] <nympheart> she's a Ravenclaw, she must be intelligent, she's willing to stick up for Harry [14:39] <Moriah> She cares about people [14:39] <cloudpic> She's a Ravenclaw, so she's likely a good student [14:39] <JaneMarple9> everybody has people skills [14:39] <futureweasley> Cho spawned my favorite "corner booth-ism" ever...the "Cho Chang Edition Box of Kleenex"...AKA, a big ol' box for crybabies [14:39] <cloudpic> And Cedric was attracted to her... he was no fool [14:39] <nympheart> that's a good one, fw [14:39] <princessmela> I don't know about Ravenclaw...sometimes the people in it seem dense [14:39] <Moriah> She believes Harry [14:39] <Expelliarmas> actually, that's the Cho Chang Deluxe Edition box of Kleenex [14:39] <cloudpic> We see Cho at her weakest points, not a fair time to judge [14:40] <futureweasley> lol, Expie [14:40] <Moriah> Exactly, cloud [14:40] <nympheart> they're smart mela, they just are shut up in an ivory tower most of the time [14:40] <Kneazly> She's another person who has had no help sorting out her feelings. A death like that is an awful lot to handle. [14:40] <Shoshana> she really cares about people ... we see that with Cedric [14:40] <janieb> I agree, cloudpic [14:40] <MrMcGonagall> The Hog’s Head. Take a good look at it. What does its decor and lack of cleanliness say about it? How does it compare with the Three Broomsticks? How does it lend itself to shady activities? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:40] <princessmela> You know speaking of Cedric..was anyone surprised that Harry wasn't accused of his death? [14:40] <Shoshana> and she seemed awfully sorry about turning Harry down for prom ... er, that is the yule bal [14:40] <JaneMarple9> yes she was attracted to cedric [14:40] <Expelliarmas> nope, sorry, Cho needs to have more backbone written into her character [14:40] <Aislinn> It reinforces the view of it as a "dodgy" sort of place [14:40] <janieb> yeah--great question princess [14:40] <nympheart> yes, mela, I think if the MoM was smart they would have tried Harry for that [14:41] <JaneMarple9> yes yes yes expie! [14:41] <Moriah> She stuck up for her friend, Expie [14:41] <Moriah> That's backbone [14:41] <cloudpic> It's a delightfullly slummy place! [14:41] <janieb> me too, nymph==forget about Dementors! [14:41] <Expelliarmas> What a total dive! It's the place for shady characters to hang out [14:41] <JaneMarple9> its the perfect place for dodgy dealings! [14:41] <Aislinn> the people who frequent it are not concerned with appearance [14:41] <JaneMarple9> that where hagrid got norbert [14:41] <nympheart> well, it's owner has done some illicit activities himself [14:41] <Kneazly> That awful rag he uses to wipe the glasses--only someone dodgy would risk the food poisoning! [14:42] <Spectre> It looks slummy enough for nobody to suspect a group of children to gather in there [14:42] <Aislinn> and don't want people who are to visit [14:42] <cbm> It reminds me of a few of my college hangouts [14:42] <JaneMarple9> Kneasley [14:42] <cloudpic> Everyone thing and everyone in the series seems to have an opposite, no? [14:42] <Shoshana> and DD's *brother* runs the place ... not where we'd expect to find any connection to Dumbledore! [14:42] <princessmela> but sloppiness is looked at in a slightly good way.. [14:42] <futureweasley> lol, me too, cbm [14:42] <JaneMarple9> report them to the Wizarding Ministry for Health! [14:42] <cloudpic> LOL, cbm... did you bring your own glass? [14:42] <cbm> I drank out of the bottles [14:42] <janieb> I feel the same about HH as Knockturn Alley--only as a last resort [14:42] <futureweasley> I think it totally lends itself to the "shady" side of wizard [14:43] <Expelliarmas> of course, I'd have to take a case of wipes along if I ever went to such a place [14:43] <princessmela> I would of been scared to touch anything [14:43] <Kneazly> Hope you wiped it clean first, cbm [14:43] <princessmela> I don't think its shady though....I think it represents a place for outcasts [14:43] <JaneMarple9> not the sort of place to take your girlfriend/boyfirend! [14:43] <cloudpic> It's useful, though to have a place which is not likely to be visited by the most straight-laced folk [14:43] <futureweasley> and, in contrast, the Three Broomsticks is a clean place [14:43] <JaneMarple9> yes cloud [14:43] <cbm> That is what tee shirts are for [14:43] <nympheart> and probably more expensive, fw [14:43] <Aislinn> yes, much more cheerful of a place, fw [14:43] <cloudpic> But, was this where Dumbledore met Trelawney for her job interview? [14:43] <Spectre> it was [14:43] <Shoshana> yup... [14:43] <Aislinn> it was, cloudpic [14:44] <JaneMarple9> i think it was - well done! [14:44] <janieb> hmmm... [14:44] <Kneazly> Yes, CP--she was short of money, she says. [14:44] <nympheart> probaly because it was cheap, cloud [14:44] <Aislinn> it was all she could afford [14:44] <princessmela> I would have been scared to come to that job interview [14:44] <Shoshana> apparently it wasn't odd for residents of Hogsmeade to see DD visiting the place regularly, too [14:44] <cloudpic> Yeah. [14:44] <princessmela> he was saying hi to his brother [14:44] <futureweasley> with the flirtacious and volumptous Madam Rosmerta at the helm...what wizard wouldn't prefer the surroundings of the 3B? [14:44] <JaneMarple9> [14:44] <nympheart> you're right Shoshana, and that would be weird, DD would sort of stick out there [14:44] <Aislinn> Dd seems to be ok with dealing with all sorts of people - dung? [14:44] <janieb> he fits in anywhere!! [14:44] <Kneazly> And it would be quieter than the 3 Broomsticks [14:44] <cbm> The real problem in this case was that it was empty, not the quality of the establishment [14:44] <cloudpic> Well, he had more than one reason... it's the sort of place Dung and company might hang out [14:45] <nympheart> not on Privet Drive, janieb [14:45] <Expelliarmas> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. [14:45] <Kneazly> Maybe that's where he met Dung. [14:45] <MrMcGonagall> What did you think of Sirius’ stony silence? Why wasn’t Sirius more understanding of Harry’s position? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:45] <JaneMarple9> perfect place for dung [14:45] <janieb> *snort* nymph! [14:45] <princessmela> aww ot [14:45] <cloudpic> Could well be, Kneazly [14:45] <futureweasley> he just didn't get it [14:45] <futureweasley> Harry isn't James [14:45] <cbm> I think he wanted to get out and see harry [14:45] <princessmela> Sirius is interesting..... [14:45] <JaneMarple9> poor sirius didn't understand it [14:45] <cloudpic> Sirius should be ashamed. *steps off soapbox and and closes her mouth* [14:45] <nympheart> his mind is rather clouded...and cracking [14:45] <JaneMarple9> he can't distingish harry from james [14:46] <futureweasley> I have a hard time faulting Sirius for this misjudgement, though [14:46] * Aislinn is not getting into again this week [14:46] <cbm> I think if he had come out, He would have been captured [14:46] <janieb> here, here, Cloud! [14:46] <Kneazly> It is still risky for him to use the Floo network--maybe he's actually being cautious. [14:46] <princessmela> Sirius was my favorite character [14:46] <Aislinn> yes, kneazly [14:46] <Shoshana> He can distinguish Harry and james, he just expects Hary to follow James's footsteps too much - kinda like Neville and his grandomther [14:46] <princessmela> still is so I love him regardless [14:46] <JaneMarple9> sirius really should be more cautious [14:46] <Kneazly> Good one, Shoshana [14:46] <nympheart> Sirius doesn't seem to care anymore, cbm, he's desprate for contact with people without his mother's presence [14:47] <princessmela> Yeah...I think Sirius was in between thoughts [14:47] <cbm> But Harry cares [14:47] <princessmela> On one hand he wanted harry to be safe [14:47] <JaneMarple9> yes yes yes nymph [14:47] <futureweasley> Sirius is a man with a boy's outlook on life and adventure. He never properly grew up [14:47] <JaneMarple9> sirius was in two worlds i think [14:47] <nympheart> yes, and Sirius is being selfish [14:47] <Aislinn> Sirius is in a prison of his own, and is struggling mightily [14:47] <MrMcGonagall> Even if Dumbledore was proven right, would Sirius have been cleared as Hermione thought? Why or why not? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:47] <JaneMarple9> memories of james was clouding his actions to harry [14:47] <futureweasley> not with Fudge at the helm [14:47] <princessmela> I still can't fault him for wanting to protect Harry in the MOM [14:48] <Aislinn> i think he would have been cleared, had he lived [14:48] <janieb> he would never be cleared until the Mom admitted (L)V was back [14:48] <nympheart> I think Sirius would have been cleared if he hadn't died at the MoM [14:48] <JaneMarple9> agreed future [14:48] <cbm> Think of what would have happened if Sirius would have been caught with Harry, besides Sirius being captured, what would they have done to Harry? [14:48] <futureweasley> in the age of Scrimegour, the story might have changed... [14:48] <Spectre> Without Peter Pettigrew, I doubt [14:48] <cloudpic> Not in the current climate in the Wizarding World... look at Stan Shunpike for goodness sake...and Sturgis Podmore [14:48] <futureweasley> but Fudge is all about having someone to "pin" things on [14:48] <Shoshana> the ministry didn't believe DD about Sirius even before they accused him of trying to overtake the ministry, so no, Sirius would not have been cleared [14:48] <cloudpic> Yeah, even with Peter it'd have been tricky [14:48] <cbm> I think if he had survived the DoM, he would have been cleared [14:48] <Expelliarmas> Absolutely not, it would not meet Fudge's needs [14:49] <cloudpic> Hard to change people's minds...and he wouldn't have helped with the things he blurts out when irritated [14:49] <princessmela> Who knows really..they did clear Sirius post-partum though [14:49] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, the chance for Sirius to be cleared has passed. [14:49] <princessmela> post-mortem rather [14:49] <Shoshana> but apparently the ministry said he was innocent in the 6th book [14:49] <nympheart> yes, cbm, that fight changed everything [14:49] <Kneazly> At least after the fight at the Mom, they would have seen that he had no Dark Mark--they would have DEs to compare him to. [14:49] <janieb> maybe i'm not getting something, but fudge seemd to step down too easily to me [14:49] <princessmela> He got fired didn't he? [14:49] <nympheart> it was too much pressure for Fudge to handle [14:49] <princessmela> I think Fudge was scared.. [14:49] <nympheart> he doesn't have a backbone [14:49] <princessmela> that was most of it [14:49] <cloudpic> Fudge knew he couldn't handle real danger [14:50] <Shoshana> they could have seen he had no Dark Mark fourteen years ago. I don't thin the DM carried that much weight with them [14:50] <cbm> Fudge had no choice, I bet he was voted out [14:50] <Spectre> Fudge remained as a "consultant", so he'd just "gone into shadows", sort of [14:50] <Kneazly> I'm not sure they knew about the mark 14 years ago [14:50] <cloudpic> He was over his head... he'd asked for Dumbledore's help when first Minister before danger loomed [14:50] <nympheart> I don't the the dark mark was common knowledge, Sirius didn't seem to know about it in GoF [14:50] <janieb> you're right, mela I was surprised he left so quietly [14:50] <Shoshana> he'd never seen his voters so unified before, he said [14:50] <cbm> But in GoF, Sirius did not know about the mark [14:50] <futureweasley> voted out by the governors...I doubt there was a public vote about it [14:51] <cloudpic> No, the Dark Mark seemed like a new revelation [14:51] <MrMcGonagall> Why were so many members of the D.A. Quidditch players? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:51] <Shoshana> well, they shoudld've known. Don't they search the prisoners? [14:51] <Kneazly> If it's like the British system, he would have been voted out by his fellow party members [14:51] <cbm> I think they knew Harry best This post has been edited by Expelliarmas: Apr 28 2007, 02:39 PM -------------------- All Aboard! |
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Apr 28 2007, 02:36 PM
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Official Lily and Stag Inns of Court Barrister Posts: 2,511 Joined: 8:28pm June 4, 2006 Location: Staring at the Sea-Miami, Fla |
[14:51] <cloudpic> Dumbledore knew, because of Snape, perhaps... but he wouldn't have made it public
[14:51] <princessmela> lol they all respect Harry [14:51] <nympheart> they already knew Harry, and had another sense of admiration for him as an athlete [14:51] <Expelliarmas> well, you have to have a certain amount of nerve to play quidditch [14:51] <cloudpic> I doubt it, Shoshana... the dementors can't see [14:51] <futureweasley> Quidditch players from different houses have know and played with Harry for years [14:51] <Aislinn> interesting question [14:51] <Shoshana> other people still go to visit ... we know fudge did once [14:51] <futureweasley> he has always been sportsmanlike, and never cheated [14:52] <Aislinn> good point, fw - they know him better than most [14:52] <cloudpic> DA membership was by invitation... you invite the people you have come to know best [14:52] <janieb> great observation--I hadn't noticed that [14:52] <futureweasley> I think that athletes are likely less critical of him, because the know him as an opponent and a peer [14:52] *** RudiusHagrid has joined #lounge [14:52] <princessmela> But the ones from other houses honestly didn't know him well [14:52] <Aislinn> are the Quidditch players more likely to take risks than other students? [14:52] <Moriah> They might also have that reckless personality to go up against Umbridge [14:52] <nympheart> probably, Aislinn, good point [14:52] <Moriah> Ugh, lag. Exactly, Aislinn [14:52] <princessmela> I got the impression that many people were not invited..but merely tagged along with friends [14:52] <janieb> quidditch players and ginny's friends are the two biggest contingents [14:52] <futureweasley> also, Ginny recruited Michael Corner, and he brought all his quidditch friends [14:53] <Kneazly> Got to go. Bye! [14:53] <nympheart> bye kneazly [14:53] <Spectre> Bye Kneazly [14:53] *** Kneazly left #lounge [] [14:53] <Moriah> Bye Kneazly! [14:53] <janieb> bye kneazely [14:53] <cloudpic> Yes, janieb, that's true [14:53] <princessmela> I mean it's not like you had to present your note from Hermione and they checked you off from the list [14:53] <cbm> bye [14:53] <JaneMarple9> and we all know why ginny brought michael along! [14:53] <princessmela> lol I never got the Ginny/Michael thing [14:53] <cloudpic> She knew and trusted him? [14:53] <JaneMarple9> nor me princess [14:53] <Shoshana> it was on Hermione's reccommendation, wasn't it? [14:54] <nympheart> she was trying to get Harry's attention [14:54] <Shoshana> to get out and stop obsessing over Harry? [14:54] <cbm> she knew him at least [14:54] <cloudpic> Ginny knows patience too... she's marking time until Harry wakes up [14:54] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione had everyone sign the parchment and agree not to sell out the other students. Was this ethical on her part? (Room 18–The Atrium) [14:54] <JaneMarple9> Cloud - because it was her first boyfriend! [14:54] <cloudpic> Certainly. [14:54] <princessmela> He was her boyfriend! I mean how is she going to get away from him for a couple of hours on a Hogsmeade weekend [14:54] <Spectre> Yes [14:54] <Aislinn> yes it was [14:54] <Moriah> I think it was a *tad* unfair [14:54] <nympheart> she did tell them what they were signing for, so I'd say yes [14:54] <Shoshana> it wasn't ethical to curse whoever broke the promise - it was just malicious [14:54] <Aislinn> she told them why they were signing [14:54] <JaneMarple9> very ethical [14:54] <cbm> It was not ethical, but it was needed [14:54] <Aislinn> even if she didn't tell them the consequences [14:54] <cloudpic> Um.... certainly to the ethical nature of the parchment [14:54] <JaneMarple9> they had to make it safe [14:54] <janieb> hee hee Moriah [14:55] <MrMcGonagall> The contract was ethical - not telling them the consequences for breaking it was not ethical. [14:55] <Shoshana> it would have been more ethical to warn them ahead of time, or to prevent the secret from getting out in the first place [14:55] <Spectre> Another Hermionethics debate after Rita in Book 4? [14:55] <cloudpic> I don't see any way it was unethical [14:55] <Expelliarmas> Yes, it was fair. How the Ravenclaws didn't see it coming, is beyond me [14:55] <Shoshana> Hermione can be pretty ruthless [14:55] <futureweasley> it's hard to say. I think that disclosing that there would be "consequences" if anyone squealed would have been a little more ethical [14:55] <Moriah> She had them sign a contract without explaining the consequences [14:55] <cbm> Plus it did tell them that they had been watched and it was not one of them that told umbridge [14:55] <princessmela> They had to know she was going to do something [14:55] <Moriah> I think that is unethical [14:55] <cloudpic> you sign. you promise to keep your mouth shut [14:55] <Expelliarmas> Hermione's goal was to protect the group; not a potential sellout [14:55] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Moriah [14:55] <princessmela> Yeah Moriah I tend to agree with you [14:55] <Shoshana> I have a question - did Seamus ever sign the parchment? he joined later [14:56] <nympheart> I don't know, it seems like common sense that there would be a consequence, even if not an official one [14:56] <princessmela> I would assume he did [14:56] <Aislinn> exactly cloudpic [14:56] <cloudpic> There'd be no consequence to an ethical signer... just an alarm to those who'd been betrayed [14:56] <Moriah> I bet Hermione made him, Shoshana [14:56] *** RudiusHagrid has quit [Bye] [14:56] <Spectre> I think that she said that "something" would ensue, the students would try to find a way to counter this "something" [14:56] <Spectre> *if she said [14:56] <futureweasley> I agree, it's a contract [14:56] <Expelliarmas> Yes, if she'd given a warning, they would suspect and find a way around it [14:56] <cloudpic> Telling was a betrayal and a broken promise. [14:56] <Shoshana> a contract normally says what the consequences are for breaking it [14:56] <princessmela> well I mean if you signed loan..wouldn't you like to know what happens if you break the loan? [14:56] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think they would have, Expie [14:57] <Expelliarmas> that would defeat the protection of the group [14:57] <Aislinn> if you are signing a contract, it is up to you to know what you are signing [14:57] <Expelliarmas> I think Umbridge would have [14:57] <princessmela> But she didn't provide the fine print [14:57] <Shoshana> they thought they knew [14:57] <Expelliarmas> found a way around it [14:57] <cbm> I think it was needed step [14:57] <MrMcGonagall> The toad isn't that clever. [14:57] <futureweasley> right, I agree...if the terms aren't disclosed, the contract is null and void [14:57] <Expelliarmas> the Toad has access to people who are that clever [14:57] <Spectre> The toad would consult someone who's more clever [14:57] <Aislinn> why would they need to find a way around it, if they were being ethical and loyal? [14:57] <cbm> The toad was clever enough to find out about the meeting [14:57] <cloudpic> Toad isn't a good user of magic... but she's sly [14:57] <nympheart> right, MrM, and she doesn't really care if someone gets labeled as a sneak [14:57] <Moriah> Well, I think that Hermione justifies a lot of things she does. Had most other characters done this, would we be so forgiving? [14:57] <Spectre> Expelliarmas, [14:57] <janieb> I agree is was unethical--but I'm soooo gald she did it! [14:58] <Aislinn> If they were doing it to protect the group as a whole, yes, moriah [14:58] <MrMcGonagall> In the Ministry? I don't think so. If Pomfrey couldn't fix it, no one can. [14:58] <futureweasley> it was necessary to have something in place for potential snitched [14:58] <cbm> I think someone was under a cloak and watching them [14:58] <futureweasley> it would have just been better if Hermione had explained [14:58] <princessmela> Of course, nobody asked what would happen if they did break the contract. [14:58] <Shoshana> interesting that the curse didn't kick in when Marietta told Umbrdige she'd find something interesting at the RoR, only after when she said something specifically about dada [14:58] <Moriah> What if they were doing it to protect the Ministry? [14:58] <Moriah> Or the Death Eaters? [14:58] <Expelliarmas> I don't think everyone in here is so forgiving. Hermione, however, had a sense that not everyone could be trusted [14:58] <princessmela> I mean you would think someone would have asked that [14:58] <janieb> did DU know before the decree? [14:58] <Aislinn> right, nobody asked - buyer beware [14:58] <Moriah> My point is that it's ok b/c she was protecting the good guys [14:59] <Aislinn> yes, it is right for exactly that reason moriah [14:59] <cloudpic> No. It's OK because they had made a promise by signing. [14:59] <Aislinn> she is protecting the good guys - that is a good thing [14:59] <Shoshana> why did Hermione punish the sneak, instead of preventing anyone from being a sneak in the first place [14:59] <Expelliarmas> If someone preferred not to sign, there was no coercion to force them to sign [14:59] <MrMcGonagall> to trick someone into signing a parchment that has a hidden jinx clause is unethical. [14:59] <cbm> Yes it is, Moriah, there is no harm to an ethical person, only the sneak [14:59] <Aislinn> right, the signed freely [14:59] <Aislinn> they [14:59] <princessmela> It was okay to protect the good guys. But still Marietta may have never signed if she had known [14:59] <Aislinn> no trick, Mr M [14:59] <Moriah> But that doesn't make it ethical b/c it protects the good guys [14:59] <nympheart> shoshana, I think it would be unethical to completely eliminate someone's ability to make choices [15:00] <Expelliarmas> Hermione, however, did not trick anyone into signing anything [15:00] <Shoshana> what about the fidelius charm? [15:00] <cloudpic> They were not tricked... it was a simple statement of a promise to keep their mouths shut [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> There were consequences that Hermione concealed. [15:00] <Moriah> Umbridge thinks she's good too but she's highly unethical [15:00] <Aislinn> she told them why they would be signing - if it was something they didn't feel they could fulfill, they shouldn't have signed [15:00] <futureweasley> hydrogen bombs were invented to protect the "good guys" too [15:00] <Moriah> She would do anything to protect her side. And Hermione would too [15:00] <cbm> I think it is in a grey area, tehey were making a promise and it only effected them if they broke it [15:00] <Expelliarmas> Hermione did not conceal anything. No one asked. [15:00] <Spectre> The Fidelius charm is too complex to be performed by students, I think [15:00] <Aislinn> she didn't trick them into signing it - she told them what it was for. [15:00] <princessmela> I'm not sure how Umbridge justifies her actions [15:00] <Shoshana> she should have, though ... omitting the truth can be as bad as lying [15:00] <cloudpic> That was a simple built-in alarm to notify Hermione of unethical behavior of a broken promise [15:00] <Moriah> She presented it as an agreement. Not binding magic [15:01] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione is guilty of failure to disclose [15:01] <futureweasley> I agree MrMcG [15:01] <princessmela> Well she won't be a good lawyer [15:01] <Aislinn> pffft [15:01] <Expelliarmas> Oh, signing a document without asking questions is the fault of the signer, not the drafter [15:01] <princessmela> we found her fault [15:01] <Shoshana> ooh, that sounded all lawyer-y [15:01] <cloudpic> Expie? What's your leagal opinon [15:01] <cloudpic> Yay! [15:01] <Shoshana> (I mean what Mr.M said) [15:01] <Aislinn> right expie [15:01] <cbm> I agree, MrMcG, but I also think it was a needed action [15:01] <Expelliarmas> I just gave you my legal opinion. And I would win. [15:01] * cloudpic is delighted [15:01] <nympheart> lol, I agree expie [15:02] <princessmela> But these are kids how many kids have signed legal contracts [15:02] <futureweasley> Expie, the terms were not disclosed, and were unavailable elsewhere [15:02] <MrMcGonagall> There's also the question of the punishment itself. Branding someone? [15:02] <Moriah> Well, I do see y'alls point but I still say that Hermione is just over the line and that she goes over it later [15:02] * JaneMarple9 decides never to argue with Expie [15:02] <janieb> you go, Expie1 [15:02] <Shoshana> it depends what country your in [15:02] <Expelliarmas> The signers had a duty to *ask* and not sign blindly [15:02] <princessmela> And honestly how do we know if the terms have to be disclosed in the wizarding world [15:02] <futureweasley> I think it was the drafters duty to disclose [15:02] * JaneMarple9 Expie knows the law too well! [15:02] <Shoshana> again, they thought they knew what they were signing. [15:02] <princessmela> I mean she could have been completely within her rights as a witch [15:02] <futureweasley> we are all lucky she does, Jane! [15:02] <Expelliarmas> The drafter has no duty to disclose. The document would be interpreted against the drafter, but disclosure is not required. [15:03] * nympheart has to go pack [15:03] <nympheart> bye guys! [15:03] <Aislinn> It might have prevented Marietta's actions [15:03] <janieb> bye! [15:03] <Spectre> bye nymph [15:03] <Moriah> Bye nymph! [15:03] *** nympheart left #lounge [] [15:03] <Expelliarmas> Actually, I'd win in any country with a common law legal basis [15:03] * cloudpic waves to nympheart [15:03] <cbm> I think that Hermione realizes that they are at war and did what she felt she had to, I will not fault her for it, it they were not at war I would agree she went too far [15:03] <Moriah> *snort* [15:03] <Shoshana> THe law is not always ethical [15:03] <cloudpic> I don't think it would have prevented her snitching... she'd have expected Umbridge's protection and wouldn't have gotten it [15:03] *** LilyFlower has joined #lounge [15:04] <Expelliarmas> you'd be amazed by how ethical it actually is [15:04] <Moriah> Good point, Shoshana [15:04] <Shoshana> not always, though [15:04] <futureweasley> Law is reason free from passion [15:04] <Expelliarmas> in this case, yes, it is [15:04] <LilyFlower> Hello everyone [15:04] <Moriah> hahaha [15:04] <MrMcGonagall> That's so funny, future, because I'm watching Legally Blonde right now. [15:04] <cloudpic> Yes, and doesn't play favorites "ood side" and "bad side" [15:04] <Expelliarmas> heya, Lily, just in time for the end [15:04] <futureweasley> LOL [15:04] <Shoshana> well, thath's where we disagree [15:04] <cbm> lol [15:04] <cloudpic> *good [15:04] <Moriah> Can we at least agree that ethics are subjective? [15:04] <Shoshana> I thought I just did? [15:05] <cbm> I can Moriah [15:05] <cloudpic> Yes, Moriah, that is an excellent point. [15:05] <Moriah> Oh, sorry, Shoshana. I'm having lag [15:05] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think they are. [15:05] <Spectre> laws are subjective too, there are no universal laws working for all societies [15:05] <princessmela> No they aren't subjective..*Jk* [15:05] <Shoshana> laws are case specific, not subjective [15:06] <Expelliarmas> ok, folks! I have to get the transcript done. So, it's time to go [15:06] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:06] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:06] <cbm> :( [15:06] <futureweasley> well, this was a great chat today! thanks for coming all! [15:06] <LilyFlower> Bye [15:06] <MrMcGonagall> Bye everyone! Thanks for a great chat today! [15:06] <Moriah> Great chat! See y'all! [15:06] <janieb> thanks for a GREAT discussion. Bye! [15:06] <cbm> bye [15:06] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [15:06] <princessmela> bye [15:06] <cloudpic> This was a great chat... rich chapters [15:06] <futureweasley> agreed cloudpic [15:06] *** Moriah has quit [Bye] [15:06] <princessmela> Yes, this is such a good book honestly [15:07] <Shoshana> nice and looooonng [15:07] * JaneMarple9 prepares to be hugged to death [15:07] <cloudpic> LOL, yes, Shoshana! [15:07] *** LilyFlower left #lounge [] [15:07] <JaneMarple9> (((all in the Booth)))) [15:07] <futureweasley> see y'all later [15:07] <cloudpic> ((((((Jane & all)))))) [15:07] <Shoshana> bye [15:07] *** Shoshana has quit [Bye] [15:07] <JaneMarple9> and a extra (((Cloud))) hug [15:07] <JaneMarple9> back tomorrow [15:07] *** janieb has quit [Bye] [15:07] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [15:07] <Spectre> bye all [15:08] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:08] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [15:08] *** Spectre left #lounge [] [15:08] * cloudpic had a great time, good evening to the British CB-ers [15:08] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [15:08] <Expelliarmas> princess? time to go! [15:08] <futureweasley> see you later princess [15:10] *** MrMcGonagall left #lounge [] [15:10] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [15:11] *** futureweasley left #lounge [] -------------------- All Aboard! |
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