Severus Snape ~, ~ The Half Blood Prince himself. |
 Nov 7 2008, 11:32 AM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary  Posts: 4,717 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss.  |
A discussion on HBP without discussing the HBP ?  Unthinkable ! So here we go ~....... Severus Snape, we are informed by himself, is the half Blood Prince whose old potions book so enthralled Harry. Harry cannot help thinking that he somehow knows the Prince having perused the contents of the book wherein the Prince has scribbled not only his shortcuts and suggestions with reagrd to potions but also spells he has made up himself. At least one of them is a dark spell the use of which earns Harry detention with the person who made it up. Ironic, isn't it ? Do you think Snape and The Half Blood Prince are different only in name or do they have important dissimilarities ? Who do you think taugfht Harry more - the Prince or Snape ? We see a quite a bit of Snape in HBP - taunting Bellatrix, taunting Tonks, taunting Harry, taunting Ron etc. In other words, the usual Snape. But we do see Snape in a different role too. He soothes Narcissa when she comes to him totally distraught and promises her that he would look after her only son Draco. What do you think of Snape's reaction to Narcissa's tears ? Was he really moved by her distress ? Did he possibly see Lily in a mother begging for her son's safety ? There's real shockeroo at the end with Snape killing Dumbledore in front of Harry's eyes. Running towards the gates to safety, Snape is stopped by Harry who tries to fight him and is told that Snape is the Half Blood Prince. Harry calls Snape, who refuses to fight him, a coward. Snape is tormented to the extreme by the word and screams at Harry not to call him coward. What do you think Snape resented most about Harry at that point ? Harry being James' son; Harry using Snape's own spells against him; or Harry calling him a coward ? Or something else ? ....... Feel free to discuss anything about the Half Blood Prince in Half Blood Prince in this thread. 
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 Nov 7 2008, 12:43 PM
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Third Place Winner of The Headless Scavenger Hunt!  Posts: 244 Joined: 1:27pm January 25, 2006 Location: A small village on Mars just outside the capital city Wibble |
I think most of my points can be discussed through those questions at the moment so I'll stick to them for now.
Do you think Snape and The Half Blood Prince are different only in name or do they have important dissimilarities ? Who do you think taught Harry more - the Prince or Snape ? I'm not sure how to answer the first one. All we see of the Half Blood Prince are his spells and I'm not sure there's enough there to compare with the grown up Snape. I can imagine a teenage Snape thinking up spells like Sectumsempra, it sounds like there was alot of anger and resentment within him back then and in many way things haven't changed. In terms of the question of who taught Harry more, Snape undoubtedly. The Prince just taught him some useful spells and helped him to become a good potions maker. Snape taught Harry much more important life skills such as the necessity of re-thinking and prejudices you may have developed if and when new facts come to light. What do you think of Snape's reaction to Narcissa's tears ? Was he really moved by her distress ? Did he possibly see Lily in a mother begging for her son's safety ? I think he was definitely moved by her distress. Snape is by no means completely heartless though he tries to portray that he is. I would probably agree with your suggestion that he saw an image of Lily in Narcissa's begging for her son's life. In many ways the situation is the same, except that Draco's life is not in immediate danger. However, it could also be the fact that, assuming Snape did know of the plan, he knew exactly what Narcissa was going to ask him to do and the knowledge that he was going to have to kill Dumbledore himself caused some of his emotion too. I suppose this is debatable depending on your general opinion of Snape. What do you think Snape resented most about Harry at that point ? Harry being James' son; Harry using Snape's own spells against him; or Harry calling him a coward ? Or something else ? I think it was a mixture of all those things but most especially the word 'coward'. He is annoyed before then but when that word is used he completely blows up. Snape's life has not been easy. Can you imagine standing in front of Voldemort telling him bare faced lies and knowing that if you lose concentration he could break into your mind and find out everything? We all know what would happen if Snape had slipped up at any point and it isn't a pretty thought. Or knowing that the woman you love is going to be killed and not having the power to do anything about it? Or even to kill the man who has helped you so much through the years at his own request? After showing so much courage and resilience it is natural to deeply resent being called a coward. I know I would. At that point Harry (and even us as readers) does not have a clue about the things that Snape has had to endure and therefore, in the heat of the moment, shouts out a completely unjustified challenge. Is it any wonder Snape reacts so violently to the word. And lastly, a little bit of curiosity from myself. I know the main interest for everyon as first readers of the book was who this mysterious Half Blood Prince might be and so my question is this: did anyone guess that it was Snape or was the revelation at the end a complete surprise? Either before the book came out or during reading it? I hadn't even contemplated Snape before hand but the spidery hand writing in a potions book got me wondering if it was Snape. I remembered his handwriting as being 'spidery and cramped' in OOTP during 'Snape's Worst Memory' so I made the link and wondered if it could be Snape. I was right of course (for about the first time too. I still wonder whether JK deliberately wrote that we see Snape's handwriting in OOTP as a clue to the Prince's identity in HBP. I wouldn't put it past her. This post has been edited by Natters: Nov 7 2008, 12:43 PM -------------------- Blackadder: I've just about had it up to here! One more insult and the contract between us will be as broken as this milk jug!
Baldrick: But that milk jug isn't broken... Blackadder: You really do walk into these things don't you Baldrick? *smashes jug over his head* |
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Nov 7 2008, 07:46 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 202 Joined: 3:24am June 3, 2008 Location: Enjoying the latest HP book club |
Who do you think taught Harry more - the Prince or Snape ?
I think that the Prince taught Harry more because Harry liked the writer of the book and therefore was more interested and willing to learn. The trouble with Sanpe is taht he is too nasty and Harry wastes time feeling angry and resentful. The Prince though must have had a lot of anger and resentment to have invented something like the Sectumsempra spell. And now that the Prince is revealed as the younger version of Snape he probably used them too. What do you think Snape resented most about Harry at that point ? Harry being James' son; Harry using Snape's own spells against him; or Harry calling him a coward ? Or something else ? I think he might also have resented Harry's resemblance to Lily. Snape keeps justifying himself to Harry, calling his father a coward and telling him to shut his mind and his mouth. |
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Nov 10 2008, 05:46 PM
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Claw-Clipping Kneazles at the Magical Menegerie Posts: 2,452 Joined: 9:26am July 24, 2007 Location: I'm either in the Muggle Underground Forum or at the Hogwarts Express Roundhouse  |
QUOTE(rowena r @ Nov 7 2008, 10:32 AM)  A discussion on HBP without discussing the HBP ? Unthinkable ! So here we go ~....... Severus Snape, we are informed by himself, is the half Blood Prince whose old potions book so enthralled Harry. Harry cannot help thinking that he somehow knows the Prince having perused the contents of the book wherein the Prince has scribbled not only his shortcuts and suggestions with reagrd to potions but also spells he has made up himself. At least one of them is a dark spell the use of which earns Harry detention with the person who made it up. Ironic, isn't it ? Do you think Snape and The Half Blood Prince are different only in name or do they have important dissimilarities ? Who do you think taugfht Harry more - the Prince or Snape ? I think to answer this question, we actually have to look at HBP and DH as a significant combined work. In terms of Potions and some spells, the HBP taught more than Severus Snape. We never really do see how Snape taught others, it's always through the lens of Harry's group passing through class. Certainly Snape the living person has an animus against Harry... after all, James won the fight for Lily!!! Harry is a living reminder of James. Snape cannot accept that. Had Snape taught Harry the way he taught himself (observe the notes in the potions book), we'd have seen Harry getting an O OWL in Potions. HBP was a professional. Snape was acting out an animus. QUOTE(rowena r @ Nov 7 2008, 10:32 AM) We see a quite a bit of Snape in HBP - taunting Bellatrix, taunting Tonks, taunting Harry, taunting Ron etc. In other words, the usual Snape. But we do see Snape in a different role too. He soothes Narcissa when she comes to him totally distraught and promises her that he would look after her only son Draco. What do you think of Snape's reaction to Narcissa's tears ? Was he really moved by her distress ? Did he possibly see Lily in a mother begging for her son's safety ? If I understand the timeline, Lucius was a prefect when Severus was a 1st year. To me, that implies Narcissa is somewhere between Lucius' age and Severus' age. We don't know the relationship Narcissa and Severus had in school, it's possible it's one of an "older sister-younger brother" friendship. Somehow, I just do not see Bella being friends with anyone. She's written to be a genuinely despicable woman, all the way down to her palpable lust for Riddle in DH. Further, looking at the Pensieve in DH, I perceive that DD/Snape had their conversation before the Spinner's End episode. So, when I look back at the Spinner's End chapter, I can't necessarily infer a transferrance of love for Lily and friendship of a mother into Narcissa from Severus. There's just too much we have not seen offstage. QUOTE(rowena r @ Nov 7 2008, 10:32 AM) There's real shockeroo at the end with Snape killing Dumbledore in front of Harry's eyes. Running towards the gates to safety, Snape is stopped by Harry who tries to fight him and is told that Snape is the Half Blood Prince. Harry calls Snape, who refuses to fight him, a coward. Snape is tormented to the extreme by the word and screams at Harry not to call him coward. What do you think Snape resented most about Harry at that point ? Harry being James' son; Harry using Snape's own spells against him; or Harry calling him a coward ? Or something else ? Again, this is where we need the Pensieve in DH to see the outcome. Snape was well and truly doubled against Riddle by Dumbledore. From the extreme risk to life that doubling took, DD agreed to Snapes demand that the good heart of Severus Snape never be shown. Harry will learn the tremendous moral courage of Snape, but at this point, he's a year away ... because the cover of Snape being near-consummate evil must be maintained if Riddle is to die. -------------------- The last enemy to be destroyed is death-- First Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verse 26 The epitaph of James and Lily Potter |
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