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The Silver Doe...Really!?, How and when Did Snape know about Lily's Patronus?
wizardess
post Jul 21 2007, 11:17 AM
Post #1
Disgruntled House-Elf at The Leaky Cauldron


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It's 2am where I am, and I've just finished one of the most awesome books I've ever read.

I've cried, I've laughed ... but in a few instances, I've simply punched the air in absolutely glee, because you know what? I called it. Years ago. Well, I called a version of it, anyway. I sent this editorial to both Mugglenet and Scribbulus (Mugglenet was sent it more than once), but neither published it.

And I feel so vindicated. Yes, this probably makes me petty, but I really don't mind. biggrin.gif

This editorial was written after the release of HBP.




Snape's Patronus: A Theory About Why Dumbledore Trusted Him

NB: This editorial is written completely on the premise that Snape is not evil. If he turns out truly bad - then this theory is invalid!

Many people on the forums have lately been arguing over what they believe Snape's Patronus to be. Some say spider, others say bat, others have decided upon a slug for reasons of their own. My own theory? It has something to do with Lily.

Yes, yes, I hear you all groan. Another Lily/Snape shipper. But let's just for a moment assume that this is true, that Snape really did have some sort of feelings for Lily (whether romantic or purely as friends and whether Lily reciprocated these feelings or not is another matter).

Now, we've all got to remember something here - Dumbledore isn't stupid. Just because a former Death Eater seems to turn over a new leaf and spins "a tale of deepest remorse" (HBP, pg 36, UK) doesn't mean that Dumbledore is going to trust them implicitly. I believe that Dumbledore needed proof. Even if Snape admitted he was in love/had a strong friendship with Lily - again, where is the proof? What made Dumbledore so sure that Snape was on the right side?

Some have suggested the Unbreakable Vow. But I don't think so. I think it had to do with his Patronus.

All through HBP, we see that Tonks is in a state of despair, and that her Patronus has changed - because she has gone through "a great shock ... an emotional upheaval," (HBP, pg 319, UK) as Lupin puts it. It has to do with her love for a particular werewolf. Because of this "great shock", Tonks' Patronus has altered to suit her emotions, to a shape she connects with happiness, peace and protection - Remus. I believe that this is not just an interesting magical tidbit that JKR has put in the books. It has a deeper meaning (as I believe Tonks/Lupin does as well, but that's another story).

Snape's words upon first seeing Tonks' new Patronus are fascinating, to my mind. "I was interested to see your new Patronus ... I think you were better off with the old one ... The new one looks weak." (HBP, pg 153 UK) This could be merely taken as Snape's usual condescending tone towards everyone. But take into account Snape's words in OotP ... "Fools who wear their hearts on their sleeves, who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow themselves to be provoked so easily - weak people, in other words - they stand no chance against his powers!" (OotP, pg 473, UK) It is the mention of "weak" again here that intrigued me. Tonks, showing her changed Patronus, is effectively "wearing her heart on her sleeve" for all the world to see. And Snape considers that weak.

JKR has stated many times that everything she writes into the books is there for a reason. Take this innocuous piece of seemingly useless information - " ... Ron was now struggling to finish a viciously difficult essay for Snape that Harry and Hermione had already completed. Harry fully expected to receive low marks on his because he had disagreed with Snape on the best way to tackle Dementors ..." (HBP, pg 420, UK). Harry, as a student of Lupin, obviously thinks the best way to deal with Dementors is the use of the Patronus. But why does Snape dislike this method?

Simply because of this. With Lily's death, Snape went through a great emotional shock - especially considering the fact that it was he who gave Voldemort the information that caused the Dark Lord to go after the Potters. And so, just like Tonks, Snape's Patronus underwent a tranformation. Now, I'm not saying that it turned into Lily herself, but something to do with Lily - perhaps her own Patronus. But it would have been something that both Snape and Dumbledore would identify with Lily. I don't believe that a Patronus is something that can be faked, or changed to suit your will. It is simply what is inside yourself that is mirrored. So it was through this change of Patronus that Dumbledore knew that Snape's repentance was genuine.

But Snape, liking to show his cold, heartless facade to the world, would have considered this a "weakness" that could be exploited against him - he would believe he is wearing his heart on his sleeve. And so he dislikes this method of Dementor-tackling, because it reveals his own "weaknesses", of letting others see his emotions.

This could be very interesting if Snape or someone else is attacked by Dementors in front of Harry and Snape's Patronus appears ... and Harry finally discovers why Dumbledore trusted him all along.



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Posts in this topic
- wizardess   The Silver Doe...Really!?   Jul 21 2007, 11:17 AM
- - wizardess   It's 2am where I am, and I've just finishe...   Jul 21 2007, 11:18 AM
- - bflynn   Good catch. I have to admit that I was firmly in ...   Jul 21 2007, 11:51 AM
- - fenix felicis   yes i didnt read your essay but i remembered readi...   Jul 21 2007, 08:30 PM
- - shooting4stars   that was a good theory for a pre book idea. i alw...   Jul 21 2007, 08:46 PM
- - Mobabyhomeslice   I totally knew Snape was good! I knew as soon ...   Jul 21 2007, 09:06 PM
|- - jlnWind   QUOTE(Mobabyhomeslice @ Jul 22 2007, 12:0...   Jul 21 2007, 09:20 PM
- - gnomesb   I remember reading this wizardess - you rule! ...   Jul 21 2007, 09:20 PM
- - woop   i always thought he was good bc jk used the same w...   Jul 21 2007, 09:40 PM
- - dlevene   Ok, question: in the Pensieve near the end, when D...   Jul 22 2007, 05:26 PM
|- - vbnm247   QUOTE(dlevene @ Jul 22 2007, 11:26 PM) 13...   Jul 22 2007, 05:40 PM
- - rockgirrl   I read it as this: "After all this time [you...   Jul 22 2007, 05:36 PM
- - dlevene   Genius   Jul 22 2007, 05:38 PM
- - silver_doe   Yeah, I just saw it as Snape still being to'al...   Jul 22 2007, 05:39 PM
- - lillyseyes   For some reason that revalation really got me. It ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:10 PM
- - silver_doe   it struck me that when Tonks' changed he told ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:14 PM
|- - zoedoll   QUOTE(silver_doe @ Jul 23 2007, 12:14 AM)...   Jul 22 2007, 06:27 PM
- - Cleansweep_Seven   Snape's patronus shows that Dumbledore could c...   Jul 22 2007, 06:24 PM
- - serious black   I know the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape was bec...   Jul 22 2007, 06:28 PM
|- - vbnm247   QUOTE(serious black @ Jul 23 2007, 12:28 ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:31 PM
- - andreandooma   When did we find out that Lily's patronus was ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:31 PM
|- - sungieality   QUOTE(andreandooma @ Jul 22 2007, 06:31 P...   Jul 22 2007, 06:48 PM
- - sungieality   Also it's a bit interesting to note that Lily ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:33 PM
- - lillyseyes   Harry tells Voldemort as he is dueling him about s...   Jul 22 2007, 06:35 PM
- - andreandooma   I'm sorry, maybe I'm being really thick. H...   Jul 22 2007, 06:40 PM
|- - The Laughing Man   QUOTE(andreandooma @ Jul 22 2007, 07:40 P...   Jul 22 2007, 06:53 PM
- - breanna   I also think this is why Dumbledore trusted Snape ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:47 PM
- - GaiusGilwomp   I thought the "always" scene was one of ...   Jul 22 2007, 06:47 PM
|- - vbnm247   QUOTE(GaiusGilwomp @ Jul 23 2007, 12:47 A...   Jul 22 2007, 06:53 PM
- - mwbashful18   As soon as the doe showed up in the forest, I KNEW...   Jul 22 2007, 06:51 PM
- - tebes   Snape producing the doe patronus was, for me, easi...   Jul 22 2007, 06:56 PM
- - Deathstick   Snapes Patronus was the Doe same as Lily Potters...   Jul 22 2007, 07:37 PM
- - kelsnotchels   QUOTE(Deathstick @ Jul 22 2007, 07:37 PM)...   Jul 22 2007, 08:07 PM
- - Lorione   Great call, Wizardess! I'm pretty sure ...   Jul 22 2007, 08:14 PM
- - Sethtaylorsummer   I remember reading that essay and thinking that it...   Jul 22 2007, 10:10 PM
- - EmmaLouise   Did anyone else work out that it was Snape who con...   Jul 24 2007, 05:47 AM
- - Calamity Jamie   I knew it was Snape because of the sword of Gryffi...   Jul 24 2007, 05:51 AM
- - loonymarauder   While Snape did not immediately come to mind when ...   Jul 24 2007, 06:08 AM
- - dagamma   I did, because I was certain he'd help as soon...   Jul 24 2007, 06:15 AM
|- - lollifant   QUOTE(dagamma @ Jul 24 2007, 11:15 AM) 13...   Jul 24 2007, 07:29 AM
- - Epona   Immediately when I read the chapter's title. ...   Jul 24 2007, 06:19 AM
- - mrsmabye   I was all ummming and arrrrring about it possibly ...   Jul 24 2007, 06:25 AM
- - obsessedWithSnape   Yeah, I knew the instant that doe turned up... But...   Jul 24 2007, 06:27 AM
- - amugglemum   LOl I actually thought that it was Ginny! Some...   Jul 24 2007, 06:28 AM
|- - ShirKi   QUOTE(amugglemum @ Jul 24 2007, 02:28 PM)...   Jul 24 2007, 07:32 AM
|- - daven861   QUOTE(ShirKi @ Jul 24 2007, 08:32 AM) 133...   Jul 24 2007, 08:30 AM
- - Krismioninny   I honestly didn't think of Snape when Harry sa...   Jul 24 2007, 06:28 AM
- - Ecthelion13   I "knew" it had been Snape in the woods ...   Jul 24 2007, 06:29 AM
- - Shaadi   I knew because Rowling didn't want to answer w...   Jul 24 2007, 06:41 AM
- - Humphrey_Boggart   All together now........ Doe, a deer, a female de...   Jul 24 2007, 07:06 AM
- - matteeaus   Hello Everyone First Post ^^ I must admit Snape w...   Jul 24 2007, 07:16 AM
- - Maker_Of_Mischief   Although I didn't know exactly who the Doe pat...   Jul 24 2007, 07:19 AM
- - hag   I only have a problem with the word "doe...   Jul 24 2007, 07:27 AM
|- - Maker_Of_Mischief   QUOTE(hag @ Jul 24 2007, 01:27 PM) 133914...   Jul 24 2007, 07:52 AM
|- - hag   QUOTEAre you saying you don't know what a Doe ...   Jul 24 2007, 08:12 AM
|- - Maker_Of_Mischief   QUOTE(hag @ Jul 24 2007, 02:12 PM) 133929...   Jul 24 2007, 08:17 AM
- - hedwig2323   I knew the instant it turned up. It finally confi...   Jul 24 2007, 07:49 AM
- - Hippo   Not really being much of an expert on animals, alt...   Jul 24 2007, 07:49 AM
- - Mello92   I knew that it was Snape because I had a pretty st...   Jul 24 2007, 07:59 AM
- - Terrilein   I suspected it was Snape because - as his defender...   Jul 24 2007, 08:37 AM
- - Akers123   Here is the exert: 'But this is touching, Seve...   Jul 24 2007, 04:45 PM
- - Zoom   I'm pretty positive it was still "Yes, it...   Jul 24 2007, 04:58 PM
- - Mrs.GinervaPotter   He's done everything he's done because he ...   Jul 24 2007, 04:58 PM
- - Seven of Nine   I think it's for Lily--always for Lily. Harry ...   Jul 24 2007, 04:59 PM
- - Ravleen   Yes, it was for Lily, I believe. Dumbledore sheds...   Jul 24 2007, 05:02 PM
- - Akers123   I now understand, thank you.   Jul 24 2007, 05:06 PM
- - SiriusBlack081   I still don't understand about the Patronus Ha...   Jul 24 2007, 05:14 PM
|- - Ravleen   QUOTE(SiriusBlack081 @ Jul 24 2007, 03:14...   Jul 24 2007, 05:16 PM
- - anna_malfoy   It was Snape who helped him. He knew where harry w...   Jul 24 2007, 05:19 PM
- - schoolchamp   yeah the silver doe was snapes potronus   Jul 24 2007, 05:18 PM
- - Pinguino21   No, that was Snape's patronus, not Snape himse...   Jul 24 2007, 05:19 PM
- - CathrynOCamdentowne   I think Dumbledore is not just crying for the love...   Jul 24 2007, 05:19 PM
- - Aradragoon   I believe it was as much he cared for Harry as for...   Jul 24 2007, 05:22 PM
|- - Eccentra   QUOTE(Aradragoon @ Jul 24 2007, 10:22 PM)...   Jul 24 2007, 05:29 PM
- - GEORISA   i agree with everyone that is stating that snape w...   Jul 24 2007, 05:24 PM
- - Benjamin the Conjurer   Yeah that was Snape leading him to the sword, touc...   Jul 24 2007, 05:27 PM
- - Akers123   It's still slightly confusing to know whether ...   Jul 24 2007, 05:26 PM
- - FAiiRYTALE FANTASiiE   I took it to mean that he still loved Lilly, and w...   Jul 24 2007, 05:30 PM
- - Oryx   QUOTEI wonder if Snape's patronus was always a...   Jul 24 2007, 05:29 PM
- - Oryx   Lily is a doe because James was a stag. A bit corn...   Jul 24 2007, 05:32 PM
- - Hippo   I guess Dumbledore had thought that perhaps Snape...   Jul 24 2007, 05:34 PM
|- - Murzim   QUOTE(Hippo @ Jul 24 2007, 06:34 PM) 1342...   Jul 25 2007, 12:02 AM
- - The Weasley 9   He tears up because his love for Lily and remorse ...   Jul 24 2007, 06:52 PM
- - lajewelcat   Well here's my theory. Since Snape really lov...   Jul 24 2007, 07:52 PM
- - arejay   to me it seems that snape was the one who shed a t...   Jul 24 2007, 10:24 PM
- - ctapgoy   I don't think he'd did it for Harry's ...   Jul 24 2007, 10:31 PM
- - Phoenix Rising   QUOTELily is a doe because James was a stag. A bit...   Jul 24 2007, 10:42 PM
- - Oryx   QUOTEMust be missing something here...why is Hermi...   Jul 24 2007, 11:32 PM
- - yourheartisalso   It was for Lily, but I do believe that Snape cared...   Jul 24 2007, 11:45 PM
- - Murzim   I think Snape is indicating that, though he might ...   Jul 24 2007, 11:59 PM
- - mamid   The entire saga is because Snape wanted revenge on...   Jul 25 2007, 12:07 AM
- - MonkeysForPotter   You gotta feel for Severus. He had a really tough ...   Jul 25 2007, 12:11 AM
|- - Oruma   QUOTE(Zoom @ Jul 24 2007, 02:58 PM) 13420...   Jul 25 2007, 04:42 AM
- - phillymech   Well, here's my two knuts on the subject. Sna...   Jul 25 2007, 12:54 AM
- - Oryx   QUOTEDon't get me wrong, I'm not some Snap...   Jul 25 2007, 01:24 AM
- - ltbrave23   I too think that by showing Dumbledore his patronu...   Jul 25 2007, 01:28 AM
- - ProudSlytherinGirl   My suspicion was that Dumbledore had gathered they...   Jul 25 2007, 01:29 AM
- - Professor_R.A.B.   Actually I think it is because Dumbledore sees him...   Jul 25 2007, 01:48 AM
- - Gladys Oliphant   I think maybe the form of the patronus is linked d...   Jul 25 2007, 03:58 AM
- - ~Voldie~   How did everyone know it was SS from the offset? I...   Jul 25 2007, 12:03 PM
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >


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