Snape In Love: Part II, Continue theorising here ... |
 Apr 7 2006, 08:05 PM
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Chief Mischief-Maker  Posts: 8,572 Joined: 5:07pm January 28, 2005 Location: The Marauder's Map never lies ...   |
Hello ...
Time to start Part II of this topic. Part I can be found here Carry on!  Narya Leaky Mod -------------------- Proud Gryffindor
  and OPAST member"Hallows," murmured Dumbledore, "not Horcruxes. Precisely."  |
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Apr 8 2006, 10:54 PM
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 89 Joined: 4:15pm October 2, 2005 Location: King's Cross, England... honestly |
I went through a series of phases regarding Snape's menacing stare (at Harry). It happens very frequently. Through books 1-4 I simply thought it was Snape trying to be intimidating. However, after I learned about legillimency I thought perhaps Snape was performing this throughout the series on Harry. Although I don't doubt Snape has been using this technique on an unsuspecting Harry, I now think, more often than not, Snape was simply transfixed by the similarity of the eyes of the only woman he ever loved.
-------------------- <a href="http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#quiz:results:120754"><img src="http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/newquiz/take_quiz/image/120754" /></a>
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Apr 9 2006, 11:34 AM
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#3
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 261 Joined: 7:45pm July 25, 2005 Location: Listening to pottercast |
*holds back laughter* I think that your first through was right legillimency was probably what he was doing. It even says in the book series that, "Harry felt as if Snape was reading his brain." Or Snape knew when Harry was lying. Which kind of shows that he wasn't just 'transfixed' with Harry's eyes. But I'll listen to more of your theories before I start denying your theory's... :-D.
edited to remove scavenger hunt picture This post has been edited by Aislinn: Feb 10 2007, 10:09 PM -------------------- R.I.P. Richard Harris, the true Albus Dumbledore.
AIM: Da1337Geek MSN: Adamservercannotbefound@hotmail.com Sorry guys there wasn't enough room for it in the default spacing! |
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Apr 10 2006, 01:55 AM
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#4
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 469 Joined: 6:01pm July 15, 2005 Location: Somewhere, pulling my hair out... |
Although I like the idea of Snape being in love with Lily, I sometimes wonder if Snape had been telling the truth when he said he "spun a tale of deepest remorse." Maybe he lied to Dumbledore about loving Lily?
-------------------- "I am a wizard, not a baboon brandishing a stick."
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 Apr 14 2006, 04:03 AM
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#5
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 38 Joined: 10:05pm April 13, 2006 |
I don't think they are in love or were even though i used to believe it. I just reakon Lilly helped snape alot. Here is my reference if you would like to look at it and form your own opinion:
While I was first reading HBP, I thought that perhaps Lily was the Prince. I couldn't work out how, of course, being that she was Muggleborn and not a male. However, the constant references to her potions skills must mean something. Lily and Snape were in the same class, and yet Lily is the one that Slughorn remembers as the Potions maven. The only interaction we have ever seen between Snape and Lily is the pensieve scene in OotP. That was in their fifth year, as they had just finished their OWLs. The book with Snape's notes all over it is a NEWT level book, so it had to be used in their sixth and/or seventh year. In the pensieve Lily "blinks" and stops for a moment when Snape calls her a Mudblood. Her shock is understandable. She stands up for someone who turns around and insults her horribly. Granted, Snape is in the unenviable position of being bullied and humiliated, which would make anyone cranky (perhaps especially to the person who tries to "save" you). Still, "Mudblood"??? Incidentally, and this is a tangential thought, but I doubt it will fit into any other editorials that I may write, so I am including it here: I hope that Harry soon realizes that what he saw his father doing to Snape was, after all, merely payback for what Snape evidently did to others. Snape takes full credit for the spells that Harry learns from the Potions book. He says that he invented them. Levicorpus, which James uses on him, was apparently something that Snape had created and used on others. Lupin says a lot of people used that spell and that it was en vogue at the time. But Snape is very proprietary about it, and the other spells in the Potions book. Also, the spell that Snape attempts to use on James, which cuts James' cheek before Sirius' warning - I wonder if this might have been Sectumsempra? It makes a fierce cut on James' face, although the spell didn't make full and proper contact. It's possible that what James was doing was giving Snape a taste of his own medicine. It changes my idea of James' choices in that scene, and makes me wonder if he was, while certainly not blameless, perhaps less of a nasty bully than we might think in that moment. If Snape created those curses and used them on other students, he may have been "justly served," as it was "a poison tempered by himself." (Laertes, Hamlet, Act V) Back to "Snape's Worst Memory." Lily may also be surprised because she doesn't expect that behavior from Severus for some reason. She immediately turns on him and calls him "Snivellus" after he calls her a Mudblood. (Lily is clearly not a pushover!) Perhaps she is surprised because they haven't had the same animosity towards each other that Snape and the Marauders share. I have read the theories that explore the possibility that Snape loved Lily. It's certainly a possibility, though most of the evidence to back it up is negative evidence. Lily doesn't seem to expect an insult from him. He doesn't insult Lily to Harry throughout the series the way he insults James. If he indeed felt remorse after sharing the first part of the Prophesy with Voldemort, the reason may be that it caused Lily's death. He shows no regret or sadness over Sirius' death, so I find it hard to believe he cared about James' either. While I don't find enough canon evidence to draw a conclusion that Snape loved Lily, it is certainly possible. I think it's also possible that, since they were both exceptional at potions, and since Lily seems to have been a fair, open minded and kind person, they may have worked alongside each other in NEWT Potions and developed some sort of accord. Perhaps they had a bit of competition going, or perhaps they even helped each other. Perhaps a mischievous Lily was intentionally kind to Snape, just to annoy James. There is one tiny moment in HBP that makes me wonder whether Lily may have made some of the contributions to Snape's enhanced Potions book: Hermione says that she thinks the writing looks more like a girl's. I don't believe there is evidence to show that there is more than one person's writing in the book, so this is probably a red herring. But it is interesting. What if Lily's talent is what is in Snape's old book? Even if she didn't voluntarily make the entries, Snape might have observed and copied her. Whatever the means or reason, the fact is that Snape and Lily must have been in the same NEWT level Potions class (assuming Lily took NEWT Potions - and that does seem to be probable, based on Slughorn's evidence). We know how good Snape is at Potions, and Slughorn remembers Lily as being the brightest of the bright - and better than Severus. I cannot imagine that this was thrown at us only for the purpose of misleading us as to the identity of the HBP. I think that Lily's Potions talents will be significant in Book Seven. I don't know how, but I think they will. Potions played a huge part in HBP. The cover for the adult version of the book was, in hindsight, one of the biggest clues we got about the contents of HBP. We saw the only Potions Master we have ever known switch to teach DADA, and a new and mysterious Potions Master in his place. The entire Half-Blood Prince part of the plotline was based on Potions and the Potions Book. We also saw Malfoy's use of the Polyjuice Potions to disguise Crabbe and Goyle; the Felix Felicis Potion and all of its contributions to the outcome; and, of course, the vile green potion that poor Dumbledore drank for the greater good of the Wizarding World. I would HATE to think that Lily had ANYTHING to do with that potion. I wonder if it was something to do with Potions that made Voldemort give Lily the opportunity to save herself? Maybe he hoped to use her? Maybe Snape wanted to save her and suggested to Voldemort that he might be able to use her? Could Snape have even been at Godric's Hollow with Voldemort that night? Could he have intended to spirit Lily away after James and Harry were dead? Is there some reason why Voldemort would have given Snape a "favor" by sparing Lily? (Hard to fathom Voldemort doing anyone a favor, but there might be a reason.) Whatever the outcome, I think that we will hear more about Lily and her remarkable instincts about Potion making. I only hope that what we learn will somehow help Harry with the daunting tasks that he has yet to face. -------------------- The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord Approaches,born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies, and the dark lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have powers the dark lord knows not. and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives,
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Apr 14 2006, 11:23 AM
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#6
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 23 Joined: 4:21pm April 4, 2006 |
Snape hates harry because of his fame or because Jame took the love of his life?
Snape hates harry because of his fame or because Jame took the love of his life? We know Snape hated James because of quitch, thats what Dumbledor told us, but there could be more to it. But then Snape would not ALL the way hate harry because hes lily's son. Snape did save harry once. That was because james saved him before. After that, Snape says that james didnt really save him because he was saving his own neck and Snape's neck!! IM SO CONFUSED!!! |
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Apr 14 2006, 05:38 PM
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#7
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 469 Joined: 6:01pm July 15, 2005 Location: Somewhere, pulling my hair out... |
Maybe Snape was jealous of Lily's Potion skills and tried to outdo her.
Other candidates for Snape's affections: Narcissa, Bellatrix... or a person we'd never guess? I think it'll be somebody that'll really throw us off our feet. -------------------- "I am a wizard, not a baboon brandishing a stick."
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Apr 19 2006, 04:41 PM
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Knight Bus Driver in Training Posts: 566 Joined: 2:43pm January 28, 2005 Location: Out there, doing it for Dumbledore!  |
The point is, actually, that Dumbledore said, not that Snape has loved, but that he has been loved. Loved, yes, but accepted the love from whoever it was who loved him? Highly doubtful. I think now of Ebenezer Scrooge, who chose his work over his fiancee in A Christmas Carol. Arguably, Scrooge did love the girl he'd meant to marry, and maybe Severus Snape did love whomever it was who loved him, but it seems more like, if he knew he'd been loved, he thought only of how to work that person's affections to his advantage, to get what he wanted, coldly and callously disregarding genuine emotion.
-------------------- "Daaawlish" -- it's the new "Smurf"! "The name is Dawlish. John Dawlish."
My Wand: Wood type~olive, Length~11 inches, Core~Unicorn Hair |
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Apr 19 2006, 11:37 PM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 135 Joined: 3:10pm July 6, 2005 Location: Sitting cross-legged in front of the computer |
QUOTE The point is, actually, that Dumbledore said, not that Snape has loved, but that he has been loved. Whisperwing, did you mean the JK Rowling quote that says that exact thing? I am almost certain that Dumbledore never said that. But in any case that has been said in a legitimit non-fanfic context by a knowledgeable and honest source. That is something that I don't think is ever really taken into much consideration by those people theorizing about Lily/Snape Platonic/Romantic (though it has been pointed out multiple times in multiple threads). I think there was some sort of relationship between Snape and Lily but I don't believe that is was romantic. I am one of the people who thinks that Snape may have had a deep respect for Lily, that he may have partnered with her (voulintarily or otherwise) in a potions calss or two, and maybe they even had a close intellectual friendship. If Snape did have affections for Lily other than just friendly, I don't think that he would have vocalized them in any way, and they may even have caused an end to their friendship. I wouldn't be surprised if he felt that his fellings were reprehensible and inappropriate, and taken actions to seperate himself in every way from the object of his affection. Then there's the sticky matter of sparing Lily at Godric's Hollow. I don't really understand why so many people find it hard to believe that Voldemort would grant a favor to Snape. After all, the only one he was really worried about killing that night was Harry (though I'm sure he had no objections to ridding himself of a couple of enemies while he was at it). But he has said himself that he rewards his most faithful servants in big ways. He may be evil but he has some pretty effective leadership tactics when you come right down to it. If Snape had done some foot-kissing and groveling and asked that Lily be spared for whatever reason, I don't see why the man who hand-delivered the prophecy to him (the one that provided the knowledge that prompted him to go after the Potter family in the first place), wouldn't be granted this one wish. Of course when it comes down to how hard Voldemort tried to keep her alive... well that's Voldemort for you. I can see him saying to himself "Sure, I'll give it a shot, but if she's not for it then that's her own fault" and calling that even. -------------------- I spell out the words "Mary Grace Shamblin" in the air and then with a flick of my wand the letters re-arrange themselves to form the words: MACABRE GNARLY SHIM... You can only guess at what I meant by this. Remember Remember the [8th] of November... I'll be 21 this time around! |
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Apr 20 2006, 08:02 AM
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Disgruntled House-Elf at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 445 Joined: 3:14pm April 15, 2006 Location: Looking for a Horcrux in Detroit! |
QUOTE(Watermelon @ Apr 10 2006, 12:55 AM) [snapback]777759[/snapback] Although I like the idea of Snape being in love with Lily, I sometimes wonder if Snape had been telling the truth when he said he "spun a tale of deepest remorse." Maybe he lied to Dumbledore about loving Lily? Yes i believe he loved Lily. He was just affraid to admit it to himself or anyone else! --------------------  "Yeah,Quirrell was a great teacher,"said Harry loudly,"there was just that minor drawback of him having Lord Voldemort sticking out of the back of his head." |
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