Snape in OOTP, at the end, what really happened ? |
 Mar 21 2008, 02:19 PM
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 77 Joined: 12:42pm July 17, 2007  |
Even after DH, I'm still puzzled by this. According to Dumbledore Snape alerted the Order "as soon" as he find out where Harry went.
a) even if we assume Snape has no idea who Padfoot is, he knows of the room Harry's been dreaming about whole year (even if he doesn't know it holds the prophecy), so he knows Harry will go to the Ministry. b) Both Voldemort and DD have their own agenda in this book, so naturally Snape probably knew about both plans. The question, then, is: if Snape is ultimately on the good side, why did the DE's appear before the Order did, and what seems like hours ahead in time ? Even if it kept Snape spying, it still put 6 teenagers in grave danger, not to mention Harry. It seems to me Snape alerted DE's first, possibly saw 6 kids flying away, waited a few hours, and only then alerted the Order (and even later, DD), and a few well aimed taunts at Sirius made sure he went there too. Did Snape, as we saw in PoA, let his Sirius emotions overcome him again ? |
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Mar 21 2008, 02:32 PM
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Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 52 Joined: 1:43pm March 13, 2008 Location: Behind you |
The DE's had been alerted, and not by Snape, they were waiting there, and had arrived long before the DA had. Snape Alerted the Order as fast as he could, and they arrived ASAP as well. Dumbledore was away doing other items of importance, hence, he arrived last. Snape knew Perfectly well who Padfoot was and needed to act in order not to give his position away to Umbridge. Snape also knew about the Prophecy.
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Mar 21 2008, 04:02 PM
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Daily Prophet Photographer Posts: 875 Joined: 3:46pm January 7, 2008 Location: Macedonia  |
I agree complitely with Arcalus. Snape alerted OotP after he saw that the children didn't come out from the forest. And they were so deep in the forest, so Snape didn't see them flying. And yes, Voldemort give harry that vision so the DE knew that he would come so they were waiting for him. SNape was on the good side, he wasn't on the bad.
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Mar 21 2008, 04:52 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
Don't forget, this whole ordeal was planned by LV. He had DEs in place as soon as he planted the false memory in Harry, so they knew what to do before Harry even had the dream. Snape, for whatever reason, was not trusted with this information, so he had to find out from Harry when the memory was planted, but he also had to wait for Harry not to return from the Forest before alerting the Order. When Harry was shown the memory, he only checked to make sure Sirius was still safe. He didn't realize what Harry did until some time after that.
-------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Mar 21 2008, 06:47 PM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 107 Joined: 9:47am February 28, 2008 Location: Flat above Zonko's Joke Shop, Hogsmeade. |
QUOTE a) even if we assume Snape has no idea who Padfoot is, he knows of the room Harry's been dreaming about whole year (even if he doesn't know it holds the prophecy), so he knows Harry will go to the Ministry I'm sure we know that Snape did understand what Harry meant when he said "He's got padfoot" but he obviously couldn't say anything directly to Harry infront of Umbridge. As far as i can remember Dumbledore tells Harry that as soon as Harry had said this to Snape; Snape proceeded to contact 12 Grimmauld Place and found that Sirius was there alive and well. It was only then that Snape realised what this meant and knew that Harry would go after Sirius to the ministry did he attempt to find Harry and found that he had went into the forest and not came back out. It was then that he contacted the Order. This is off the top of my head so i'm sorry if it's wrong but i'm pretty confident it's not 
-------------------- Excuse me; are you the imprint of a departed soul?
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Mar 21 2008, 10:15 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 31 Joined: 9:31pm April 14, 2007 Location: OXNARD, CA 93036 |
QUOTE(HedwigIsntDead @ Mar 21 2008, 04:47 PM)  QUOTE a) even if we assume Snape has no idea who Padfoot is, he knows of the room Harry's been dreaming about whole year (even if he doesn't know it holds the prophecy), so he knows Harry will go to the Ministry I'm sure we know that Snape did understand what Harry meant when he said "He's got padfoot" but he obviously couldn't say anything directly to Harry infront of Umbridge. As far as i can remember Dumbledore tells Harry that as soon as Harry had said this to Snape; Snape proceeded to contact 12 Grimmauld Place and found that Sirius was there alive and well. It was only then that Snape realised what this meant and knew that Harry would go after Sirius to the ministry did he attempt to find Harry and found that he had went into the forest and not came back out. It was then that he contacted the Order. This is off the top of my head so i'm sorry if it's wrong but i'm pretty confident it's not That sounds about right.  And yeah, since LV planted that vision in Harry, the DEs were already there hiding and waiting. That was the plan all along. -------------------- After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.
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Mar 22 2008, 02:22 AM
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Being Chosen by a Wand at Ollivander's Posts: 2,977 Joined: 12:37pm April 28, 2007 |
I still don't understand why we're supposed to think Voldemort is an intelligent leader, if supposedly he didn't share his plan to get Harry out of the castle, with the one Death Eater who could insure that Harry got out of the castle. It doesn't make sense that Severus had to go check up on Sirius. I would think, as he knew Voldemort was trying to get Harry to go to the DOM, his priorty would have been to do everything he could, including pretend to go along with Umbridge to keep Harry getting away.
After five years of watching the Trio, he couldn't have believed they would not managed to escape Umbridge. |
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Mar 22 2008, 03:19 AM
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#8
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 91 Joined: 9:37am March 5, 2008 |
QUOTE(HedwigIsntDead @ Mar 21 2008, 07:47 PM) QUOTE a) even if we assume Snape has no idea who Padfoot is, he knows of the room Harry's been dreaming about whole year (even if he doesn't know it holds the prophecy), so he knows Harry will go to the Ministry I'm sure we know that Snape did understand what Harry meant when he said "He's got padfoot" but he obviously couldn't say anything directly to Harry infront of Umbridge. As far as i can remember Dumbledore tells Harry that as soon as Harry had said this to Snape; Snape proceeded to contact 12 Grimmauld Place and found that Sirius was there alive and well. It was only then that Snape realised what this meant and knew that Harry would go after Sirius to the ministry did he attempt to find Harry and found that he had went into the forest and not came back out. It was then that he contacted the Order. This is off the top of my head so i'm sorry if it's wrong but i'm pretty confident it's not right on, dude. you nailed it. QUOTE(Maime the Hunter @ Mar 22 2008, 03:22 AM) I still don't understand why we're supposed to think Voldemort is an intelligent leader, if supposedly he didn't share his plan to get Harry out of the castle, with the one Death Eater who could insure that Harry got out of the castle. It doesn't make sense that Severus had to go check up on Sirius. I would think, as he knew Voldemort was trying to get Harry to go to the DOM, his priorty would have been to do everything he could, including pretend to go along with Umbridge to keep Harry getting away. After five years of watching the Trio, he couldn't have believed they would not managed to escape Umbridge. as with any organization some things are on a "need to know" basis. confident harry would show, why would voldemort need to pass the info to snape? This post has been edited by rowena r: Mar 22 2008, 10:05 AM |
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Mar 22 2008, 03:41 AM
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#9
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 77 Joined: 12:42pm July 17, 2007 |
QUOTE(HedwigIsntDead @ Mar 22 2008, 12:47 AM) QUOTE a) even if we assume Snape has no idea who Padfoot is, he knows of the room Harry's been dreaming about whole year (even if he doesn't know it holds the prophecy), so he knows Harry will go to the Ministry I'm sure we know that Snape did understand what Harry meant when he said "He's got padfoot" but he obviously couldn't say anything directly to Harry infront of Umbridge. As far as i can remember Dumbledore tells Harry that as soon as Harry had said this to Snape; Snape proceeded to contact 12 Grimmauld Place and found that Sirius was there alive and well. It was only then that Snape realised what this meant and knew that Harry would go after Sirius to the ministry did he attempt to find Harry and found that he had went into the forest and not came back out. It was then that he contacted the Order. I know Snape followed Marauders around but knowing their secret names ? Maybe... Anyway, that is what Dumbledore says - that is why I think that was the official Snape's story. I agree he was the one that alerted the Order and checked on Sirius (with some well placed taunts, I'm sure), but something's fishy in that story. If "he contacted Grimmauld place at once and as soon as he saw Sirius is ok, he tried to find you and contact the Order" is true, why the long gap between the arrival of Harry and the Order ? I don't see Snape running into Umbridge's office immediately after seeing Sirius is ok (because Ginny, Neville and Loona would say so), and certainly none of them saw Snape anywhere near the Forrest, much less in it. And I don't see him patrolling Hogwarts all the time either. Yes, LV planted the visions in Harry's head but it wasn't until he added Sirius - and Harry remembered the room - that Harry acted. Still, I'm thinking the DE's had Snape tell them when Harry would be on the move, out of Hogwarts, to place the DE's. (after all, they probably weren't there for months ever since Harry started having those dreams) This post has been edited by broomwitch: Mar 22 2008, 03:43 AM |
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Mar 22 2008, 04:02 AM
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#10
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 91 Joined: 9:37am March 5, 2008 |
I know Snape followed Marauders around but knowing their secret names ? Maybe...
Anyway, that is what Dumbledore says - that is why I think that was the official Snape's story. I agree he was the one that alerted the Order and checked on Sirius (with some well placed taunts, I'm sure), but something's fishy in that story. If "he contacted Grimmauld place at once and as soon as he saw Sirius is ok, he tried to find you and contact the Order" is true, why the long gap between the arrival of Harry and the Order ? I don't see Snape running into Umbridge's office immediately after seeing Sirius is ok (because Ginny, Neville and Loona would say so), and certainly none of them saw Snape anywhere near the Forrest, much less in it. And I don't see him patrolling Hogwarts all the time either. Yes, LV planted the visions in Harry's head but it wasn't until he added Sirius - and Harry remembered the room - that Harry acted. Still, I'm thinking the DE's had Snape tell them when Harry would be on the move, out of Hogwarts, to place the DE's. (after all, they probably weren't there for months ever since Harry started having those dreams) [/quote] I believe Snape informed Dumbledore first, then contacted the order. Many students could have witnessed Harry and the others entering the forrest. I am sure it wouldn't be difficult for a professor to get that information from a student. Once Snape knew Sirius was in no danger he entered the forrest to find Harry. When he could not be found, the order was dispatched to the ministry. That sounds like it would take care of the delay in their arrival. There would be no reason for Snape to pass information to the death eaters. Voldemort already knew Harry would come. Snape had been charged with protecting Harry since Voldemort's fall when Harry was a baby. Snape was protecting Lily's child. Snape would have done anything to ensure Harry's safety. He was trustworthy to the end. |
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