QUOTE(roonwit @ Jul 21 2008, 04:21 PM)
I am afraid I can't find a "as good as he got" reference either. But it is implied that James continued to hex Snape for the fun of it because Snape never lost an opportunity to curse James. Hexes have a connotation of dark magic, though not as bad as curses, so it does seem James was still using darkish magic in his seventh year against Snape, though probably less serious (in spell strength at least) than the magic Snape was using on him.
No worries; in 7 books it is hard to recall exact words. But I know the portion you are speaking about. It says that Snape hexed James at every opportunity - and James didn't take it lying down. It doesn't say he used hexes or anything about what he actually did. He was headboy - he could get Snape in trouble in a lot of ways, but I reckon he hexed or jinxed back. However, the point is, he was with Lily then, Snape was Jealous - James no longer had anything to be jealous about. His head had shrunk and he was no longer "hexing for fun". So I am afraid your interpretation is directly contrary to canon. I wouldn't expect James to take it lying down either - not at 17 and not at 55 years old. Snape had no right to hex him out of jealousy, but he did. It makes no sense for James to stop hexing everyone but Snape and that is why JKR wrote it the way she did - sensibly to show that he had matured. Snape was the bully antagonist at this juncture and James his victim (as you call it). James retaliated, I understand that, I would do the same. Otherwise Snape would keep doing it.
And I frankly think Snape did it so that Lily would become angry at James and believe that he was still hexing for fun. But Lily knew a little about it and she is a smart girl, so she saw through Snape's ploy. Even if that was not Snape's motive (to break them up), it did not serve to break James and Lily up because even the little she knew about it, was enough to tell her that Snape was the aggressor. She knew why as well - jealousy.
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That doesn't follow at all. There is a big difference between knowing James was playing with the snitch (probably everyone out on the grounds knew it) and watching him, Indeed Lily was probably deliberately not watching him regardless of her feelings, because she wouldn't want to be caught watching him when he continually glances over to see if she is.
Oh, I am sorry, I didn't mean to imply she was "openly" watching him. I agree with you, she was just glancing now and again. At that point, Lily was not ready to act on her crush at all. Like all of the women in the HP series, she was strong and had the endurance to wait out James' maturity. (Ever notice that about HP? We poor men got the rough deal! lol.)
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I think you are seeing what you want to see, which goes a long way beyond what is justified from the text. I think Lily's slight smile was because her first reaction, like that of everyone else watching, was to find the spectacle of Snape dangling upside down funny.
I was being honest when I said the relationships mean nothing to me. I couldn't care less if Lily didn't like James until the day they got married, lol. But I am just interpreting the canon. Remember, this was just a supporting point for my original statement, so it is not something I feel strongly about at all. JKR said what she said, Lily did what she did and the explanation I gave is the only one that fits - to me. If I were defending my friend, I would not stop to question the enemy what my friend did to him; nor would ignore my friend and chat up the enemy. Nor would I ignore the other enemy altogether either.
Sirius did far more unsetlling spells on Snape, but he never comes up - it is like Sirius is off in the distance laughing at how Lily, James, Snape, Harry and a lot of the reading audience ignored his role altogether. It is great to be Sirius! Despite the totalus petrificus and Impedimenta spells Sirius threw out, Lily said not a word to him. Snape retaliates on James - who had only filled his mouth with soap - and I understand he was jealous and I know he overheard James ask Lily to go out with him (bribery) - But he also heard Lily speaking to James and saw her ignoring him AND Sirius completely. And he grew hurt, jealous and even more humiliated because his own friend, his own defender didn't spare him a glance. So he became vindictive and took it out on Lily. Yes even Snape recognized Lily's behavior as a little to friendly for his tastes. "Filthy little Mudblood like her" was his bullying point. And what does the oh so innocent and good Lily do? She humliates Snape herself, "go wash your pants, Snivellus" - using the term the Marauders use for him, that is a low, low blow - not as low as Snape's to her though. And James of all people jumps to Lily's defense - even though she is defending his enemy - on the other side, turned him down in a humiliating fashion (I'd rather date the Giant Squid) and was altogether fiery with him. Still, James is incensed by the use of the word and even worse, said to a girl he fancies. Lily too was hurt - and she turned from Snape and then gave James the 1-2 punch. She humiliated him as well, telling him off by claiming he was an arrognant bully - but after that, she had no where to go, so she throws in the fact that he musses his hair and plays with his snitch - LOL. Come on, I could do better than that. She has obviously been watching him for a while (or glancing as we spoke of above). She knows his little habits. She knows how he thinks too - when he gave his comment about Snape just existing, Lilly remarked: "you think you're funny" - well he did, he was putting Snape down with dark humor. Even some readers thought James was serious, they missed Lily's comment altogether as it was given. But Lily didn't. And finally, Snape knew Lily well and HE believed she might fancy James - and he was sure James fancied her (see the memories DH). So I think JKR gave ample evidence of what was going on here. Again - I am just quoting text and giving JKR's comments here - for my part, I don't care. But the point that is relevant is that Lily developed a crush which means she did not think of James in the same terms as she thought of Snape whom she did not develop a crush on.
Jul 26 2007, 08:36 PM
