Tea at Shell Cottage Transcript - 9/13/07, Heroism in Harry Potter |
 Sep 13 2007, 03:17 PM
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Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor  Posts: 793 Joined: 10:44am September 2, 2005 Location: Buried under a mountain of homework   |
The moderators in this chat were: JaneMarple9, Mr. McGonagall, ProngsPatronus and Theoriser.
[14:05] *** Theoriser has joined #lounge [14:06] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [14:06] <JaneMarple9> and here we go again :) [14:11] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [14:12] *** bookworm1102 has joined #lounge [14:12] <Theoriser> hi bookworm [14:12] <bookworm1102> hey whats up [14:13] <MrMcGonagall> hi, bookworm! [14:13] <bookworm1102> hi [14:13] <MrMcGonagall> Oops, I need a color. [14:13] <MrMcGonagall> Ah, much better. [14:13] <JaneMarple9> hello bookworm! [14:13] <bookworm1102> lol [14:13] <bookworm1102> hi hey hows it going [14:13] <MrMcGonagall> One always needs a splash of color. [14:16] <ProngsPatronus> yay for colour! [14:16] <MrMcGonagall> We had some difficulties getting the CB open on time today, but we succeeded at last. :) [14:16] *** bookworm1102 has quit [Bye] [14:17] *** bookworm1102 has joined #lounge [14:17] <bookworm1102> sorry guys pressed the wrong button [14:17] <MrMcGonagall> no problem. [14:17] <Theoriser> so have you been in a chat before, bookworm? [14:18] <bookworm1102> yes many a time [14:18] <MrMcGonagall> Yep. bookworm is turning into a CB regular! [14:18] <MrMcGonagall> LOL [14:19] <bookworm1102> i actually suprised its working i thought it wouldnt work since i am at school and all [14:19] <bookworm1102> lol [14:19] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, sometimes schools and businesses have it blocked. [14:20] <bookworm1102> but i am glad it is though [14:21] <MrMcGonagall> We're going to go ahead and dive into some questions. You ready, bookworm? [14:21] <bookworm1102> yep [14:21] <ProngsPatronus> What does it mean to be a hero? [14:21] <bookworm1102> wow small group today [14:22] <JaneMarple9> it means to me that the hero will triumph over evil [14:22] <MrMcGonagall> I think a hero is someone who is extraordinarily good. Not just run-of-the-mill nice, but virtuous to an excellent degree. [14:22] <bookworm1102> i guess when you do somthing selfless , not really caring what happens to you [14:23] <ProngsPatronus> to me, a hero is someone who breaks from the ordinary world to exceed that person's own expectations of self [14:23] <JaneMarple9> it meand he'd do anything for his true friends [14:23] <bookworm1102> they sometimes think outside the box [14:23] <MrMcGonagall> Is a hero self-defined, then, Prongs? [14:23] <Theoriser> someone who is willing to be brave and do what they know is right [14:23] <ProngsPatronus> I think that it is, in some ways [14:24] <MrMcGonagall> I tend to think of it in more objective terms, I guess. [14:24] <ProngsPatronus> but, if you have seen interviews with people who have been called heroes, they almost uniformly say they were doing just what anyone else would do [14:24] <MrMcGonagall> I suppose I see it more in terms of average societal expectations. [14:24] <bookworm1102> think it just depends on the way you look at it or the way you see a certian situation [14:25] <MrMcGonagall> Except that often those people wouldn't really do the same. [14:25] <ProngsPatronus> exactly [14:25] <MrMcGonagall> Heroes are often humble. LOL [14:25] <bookworm1102> too true [14:25] <bookworm1102> lol [14:25] <ProngsPatronus> so--the hero's expectations are different that that of society [14:25] <bookworm1102> heros don't necessarly consider themselves heros [14:25] <ProngsPatronus> no, they don't [14:26] <ProngsPatronus> and some would say that is an indication that they are, indeed a hero [14:26] <MrMcGonagall> I wonder how important a role choice plans in being a hero. Oftentimes those we call heroes are rally acting on a gut instinct or adrenalin. [14:26] * MrMcGonagall can't type worth a darn today. [14:26] <bookworm1102> and they were in the right place at the right time [14:26] <Theoriser> like how Harry doesn't consciously want to 'act the hero', he just does what he knows is right [14:27] <ProngsPatronus> I think one chooses to save a life [14:27] <bookworm1102> i agree theoriser [14:27] <ProngsPatronus> because it feels right [14:27] <JaneMarple9> he has this "saving people" thing [14:27] <ProngsPatronus> one of the things I like most about him [14:28] <bookworm1102> he thinks he has to protect everybody i guess including himself [14:28] <JaneMarple9> he's very reliable - not afraid of danger [14:28] <ProngsPatronus> What role does sacrifice play in heroism? [14:28] <MrMcGonagall> I suppose there are degrees of heroism. I know I would make a distinction between someone who does something in the intensity of the moment (like pushing somebody out of the way of an oncoming bus) or someone who makes a very conscious and deliberate act against great odds. [14:29] <JaneMarple9> well look at cedric - he was a sort of hero, being the triwizard champion [14:29] <ProngsPatronus> the Order of Merlin, third class [14:29] <MrMcGonagall> I think sacrifice is always necessary on some level. A hero must put someone's needs before his own. [14:29] <ProngsPatronus> yes, I agree [14:29] <JaneMarple9> he sacrificed himself for harry - although he had not a lot of choice [14:29] <ProngsPatronus> sacrifice is inherent in heroism [14:29] <JaneMarple9> there's always sacrifice when there is heroism [14:29] <MrMcGonagall> There's a sacrifice of self that's required. [14:30] <bookworm1102> i think in some weird way that the hero needs to loose somthing important to him to become a hero i mean thats what happened to harry [14:30] <MrMcGonagall> Good point, bookworm. [14:30] <ProngsPatronus> I also think that it is important that the sacrifice must involve death [14:30] <ProngsPatronus> the chance of death [14:31] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, the greater the sacrifice, the greater the hero. [14:31] <bookworm1102> yea it always seems that the heroic action always revoves aroud death [14:31] <Theoriser> I agree MrM [14:32] <MrMcGonagall> Lockhart was such a poser-hero... one who never made sacrifices. [14:32] <ProngsPatronus> well, no threat is really a threat unless it involves the threat of death [14:32] <JaneMarple9> :) yeah lockhart was no hero [14:32] <ProngsPatronus> only in his own dreams [14:32] <bookworm1102> I agree mr mcg lockheart was the hero everyone wanted [14:32] <JaneMarple9> he made out he was - but took other people's glory [14:33] <MrMcGonagall> Lockhart looked the hero, but someone so self-centered could never do anything truly heroic. [14:33] <Theoriser> yeah, he was too selfish to be a hero [14:33] <MrMcGonagall> Maybe that's why we didn't see any real heroism from the Malfoys. [14:33] <ProngsPatronus> a hero is unselfish [14:34] <ProngsPatronus> which is an integral part of sacrifice [14:34] <bookworm1102> a hero cares about everyone but himself [14:34] <JaneMarple9> great point bookworm [14:34] <bookworm1102> in a way though Ron is also a hero [14:34] <ProngsPatronus> and a hero doesn't expect repayment for his/her heroism [14:34] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think Ron definitely illustrates heroism. He had to struggle, but he was a hero in the end. [14:34] <JaneMarple9> ron got his turn to be a hero - when he destroyed the locket [14:34] <bookworm1102> or at least tried to be [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> he faced up to his greatest fear, as well [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> the spiders [14:35] <bookworm1102> he wanted to be hermiones hero :) [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> that takes heroism [14:35] <JaneMarple9> ooo yeah - the spiders [14:35] <JaneMarple9> that takes guts! [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> he sacrificed himself in the chess game for harry, too [14:35] <ProngsPatronus> and that was when he was 11 [14:35] <JaneMarple9> good point [14:36] <MrMcGonagall> Heroism and Gryffindorness do seem to go together. [14:36] <bookworm1102> in a way thought didnt all the characters face their greatest fears in the end? [14:36] <bookworm1102> so would that make them all heros? [14:37] <JaneMarple9> well i would call neville a sort of hero [14:37] <ProngsPatronus> hmmm--some didn't fare so kindly--think of the Slytherins in the Battle for Hogwarts [14:37] *** FreedomStar has joined #lounge [14:37] <ProngsPatronus> hey, freedomstar [14:37] <JaneMarple9> ecause he destroyed the sword [14:37] <FreedomStar> hey [14:37] <JaneMarple9> hi there freedomstar! [14:37] <ProngsPatronus> we are talking about heroes [14:37] <bookworm1102> hi [14:37] <FreedomStar> :) [14:37] <FreedomStar> what're we discussing? [14:37] <FreedomStar> oh ok, heroes [14:38] <ProngsPatronus> What moment in the series, in your opinion, defined Harry as a hero? [14:38] <bookworm1102> the end when he walked into the forest [14:38] <bookworm1102> thats when he faced his greatest fear and tried to protect everyone he loved [14:38] <JaneMarple9> thats a good description yes [14:39] <MrMcGonagall> Ultimately it was the forest. [14:39] <ProngsPatronus> the beginning, when he went with a strange person to a new world [14:39] <FreedomStar> I don't knwo if there's one defining moment [14:39] <MrMcGonagall> Offering up his life for the sake of the wizarding world. [14:39] <JaneMarple9> but there again - when he saved ginny for the chamber of secrets - pretty heroic [14:39] <FreedomStar> I think it showed in SS, when he willingly went to meet Quirrell and to save the Stone [14:39] <ProngsPatronus> he saved the stone from voldemort, too--another heroic act [14:39] <MrMcGonagall> There have been lots of moments. [14:39] <FreedomStar> for an eleven year old boy to understand what that would mean in the hands of voldemort... [14:39] <bookworm1102> i just think his walk into the forest was the ultimate heroic moment [14:40] <ProngsPatronus> he ans ron saved Hermione from the troll, as well [14:40] <MrMcGonagall> The greatest act of heroism, though, I think was walking toward certain death. not just the chance of it, but a seemingly sure thing. [14:40] <Theoriser> I think it was when he walked into the forest, without telling Ron, Hermione or Ginny because they would only try to stop him [14:40] <bookworm1102> i agree [14:40] <FreedomStar> agreed [14:41] <FreedomStar> if i had to pick one moment that outshone the rest, it would definitely be that one [14:41] <ProngsPatronus> well, I think every time he stood against voldemort was a time of certain death for harry--he didn't know there would be seven books about him! [14:41] <FreedomStar> lol [14:41] <bookworm1102> giggle [14:41] <MrMcGonagall> Harry was often willing to die to do what needed to be done, but he knew that by going into the forest and allowing Voldemort to take a shot at him that his life would be taken, but that it was necessary for the greater good. [14:42] <ProngsPatronus> my point is that I think he was a hero long before that moment [14:42] <bookworm1102> he knew it was the only way to end it all [14:42] <JaneMarple9> like if dumbledore had told harry everything in book 1 - there wouldn't be a series [14:42] <ProngsPatronus> that was the ultimate test of his self-sacrifice and heroism, though [14:42] <Theoriser> yeah, I agree prongs [14:42] <MrMcGonagall> I think Harry had to reach the point where he was prepared to give up his life in DH. [14:43] <Theoriser> each year he was a hero, it's just the forest is the defining moment for me [14:43] <MrMcGonagall> Because he wasn't just offered up like a slab of meat (the way Snape put it). He chose his fate. [14:43] <JaneMarple9> yeah harry knew voldie had to be rid of once and for all [14:43] <JaneMarple9> e wasn't all that bothered that he would have to die too [14:43] <bookworm1102> thats why he didnt know he had to die earlyier because he would be trying to live his life like it was his last day [14:43] <MrMcGonagall> Harry chose Death, and that has to be the ultimate moment of heroism. [14:44] <ProngsPatronus> just like his mother [14:44] <ProngsPatronus> another hero [14:44] <MrMcGonagall> Bingo, Prongs! [14:44] <bookworm1102> would james be considered a hero? [14:44] <ProngsPatronus> I think JAmes is a hero--but not as realised as his sone [14:44] <ProngsPatronus> son [14:44] <MrMcGonagall> I think so, but the heroism of Harry and Lily is of a little higher quality... the intellect was more engaged. [14:45] <ProngsPatronus> well, they had a choice [14:45] <ProngsPatronus> james didn't [14:45] <JaneMarple9> yeah james got blasted before he knew what was going on [14:45] <bookworm1102> i would consider james a hero because he tried to protect his family the best way he could [14:45] <MrMcGonagall> James flung himself into battle - heroic, but not the same kind of courage as embracing death to protect another. [14:45] <ProngsPatronus> but he did make the choice to save his worst enemy from a fate literally worse than death [14:45] <ProngsPatronus> and that makes him a hero to me [14:46] <JaneMarple9> yes james was protecting lily and harry - good point [14:46] <bookworm1102> agreed [14:46] <ProngsPatronus> he saved Snape fro becomeing a werewolf [14:46] <ProngsPatronus> he certainly didn't have to do that [14:46] <JaneMarple9> he did - although he hated him [14:47] <ProngsPatronus> to me, that is the act of a hero [14:47] <Theoriser> yeah [14:47] <Theoriser> he put others before himself [14:47] <MrMcGonagall> See, I'm not so sure. There was only one morally right choice to make in that decision. [14:47] <ProngsPatronus> however, he could have said no [14:47] <ProngsPatronus> he chose [14:48] <ProngsPatronus> against his best friend, who set up the joke [14:48] <MrMcGonagall> but is simply choosing to do what's right always "heroic"? [14:48] <ProngsPatronus> he acted on that choice [14:48] <bookworm1102> but he chose to go into hiding to protect his family [14:49] <ProngsPatronus> the ironic thing is that he saved the person who was one of those responsible for the death of his family [14:49] <MrMcGonagall> Well, that was an irony that was yet to be realized. [14:50] <ProngsPatronus> I think that James knew that Snape wouldn't thank him for what James did--but that sisn't matter [14:50] <bookworm1102> I think all the muraders except for the rat were all heros at some point [14:50] <bookworm1102> the rat was just a chicken [14:51] <ProngsPatronus> In Chamber of Secrets, Harry pulls the Gryffindor sword out of the Sorting Hat, which is similar to another hero, King Arthur. In what other ways is Harry like an Arthurian Hero? [14:51] <MrMcGonagall> Well, he's very flawed. LOL [14:52] <FreedomStar> I'm not very familiar with the arturian heroes... [14:52] <bookworm1102> gosh im not sure i havent really read the king auther storys [14:52] <ProngsPatronus> oops [14:52] <ProngsPatronus> well, King Arthur was an orphan [14:52] <MrMcGonagall> He also marries a woman with a version of the name Guinevere. [14:52] <Theoriser> no, me neither [14:52] <ProngsPatronus> and was fostered by others [14:52] <JaneMarple9> Not very well up with Arthurian Legends either! [14:52] <Theoriser> I know a bit about the story but that's it [14:53] <ProngsPatronus> he had a wise wizard as a mentor [14:53] <JaneMarple9> The sword of gryffindor does sound a lot like excalibur though [14:53] <FreedomStar> what about the legend of excalibur? [14:53] <ProngsPatronus> it does! [14:53] <FreedomStar> All I know is he pulled it out of a rock, right? [14:53] <bookworm1102> the only thing i know was the whole sword in the stone thing and the guinevere and lancealot thing [14:53] <ProngsPatronus> a storied sword, stuck into a stone (instead of behind a glass case) [14:54] <ProngsPatronus> :lol: [14:54] <FreedomStar> Wasn't there a Lady of the Lake involved too? [14:54] <bookworm1102> isnt guinevere another name for ginnys full name sorry i cant spell it.. or did i hear that wrong [14:54] <ProngsPatronus> yes [14:54] <JaneMarple9> yeah - we get squiddy!! [14:54] <FreedomStar> no, ginny's full name is Ginevra [14:54] <FreedomStar> but it's close [14:55] <ProngsPatronus> Ginevra is a form of Guinevere [14:55] <FreedomStar> oooh [14:55] <FreedomStar> oh, that's interesting [14:55] <Theoriser> does it involve merlin as well? I seem to remember that somehow [14:55] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Ginevra is the Italian form of Guinevere [14:55] <JaneMarple9> who'd had thought the giant squid was connected to arthurian legend? :) [14:55] <ProngsPatronus> her father's name is Arthur [14:55] <JaneMarple9> and arthur's lance (sword?) was called Ron [14:55] <JaneMarple9> apparently [14:55] <ProngsPatronus> yes [14:56] <ProngsPatronus> there were Hallows in the arthurian legends, too [14:56] <ProngsPatronus> and the Grail [14:57] <ProngsPatronus> Arthur's great enemy, Mordred, was related to him [14:57] <bookworm1102> aww man now i have the song from spamalot stuck in my head [14:57] <FreedomStar> lol [14:57] <ProngsPatronus> Voldemort and Harry are related through the Peverells [14:57] <FreedomStar> I'm thinking of Monty Python... [14:57] <bookworm1102> me too [14:58] <ProngsPatronus> Of the 4 Marauders, which one takes the prize for being the most heroic? [14:58] <Theoriser> ooh good question! [14:58] <Theoriser> ooh good question! [14:58] <MrMcGonagall> Certainly not Rat Boy. [14:58] <Theoriser> sorry it send twice [14:59] <bookworm1102> ooh, i like this question, i think i would have to say remus [14:59] <JaneMarple9> not Wormtail! [14:59] <Theoriser> maybe James or Remus [14:59] <ProngsPatronus> all but wormtail were heroic in their own way [14:59] <JaneMarple9> he's the weakest [14:59] <JaneMarple9> although.... wormtail sacrificed himself for harry [14:59] <bookworm1102> I say remus because of his Furry little problem [14:59] <MrMcGonagall> I'm not sure I can decide. They did each show a kind of heroism in their own way. [14:59] <JaneMarple9> i'd say.....sirius [15:00] <ProngsPatronus> Sirius was imprisoned as an innocent man, yet died to rpotect harry [15:00] <MrMcGonagall> Lupin's was a kind of slow martyrdom. [15:00] <JaneMarple9> he went to the ministry of magic to fight for harry [15:00] <ProngsPatronus> Remus, though cursed as a werewolf, died in the Battle of Hogwarts [15:00] <FreedomStar> Wormtail sacrificed himself for Harry? [15:00] <JaneMarple9> yeah remus was a sort of saintly Marauder - always the good one [15:01] <ProngsPatronus> James, though a prat in school, saved his worst enemy from the curse of lycanthropy [15:01] <MrMcGonagall> Lupin was often very conflicted, though. I think perhaps it was because he was the most intellectual and introspective of the three good Marauders. [15:01] <ProngsPatronus> and died protecting his family [15:01] <bookworm1102> REmus was a hero because he lost everything and kept on fighting and he faced his fear of being rejected because of his problem [15:01] <JaneMarple9> i mean when he did not kill harry when he wanted to - that life debt [15:01] <JaneMarple9> and then the hand turned on wormturn [15:02] <JaneMarple9> wormturn? wormtail! :lol: [15:02] <ProngsPatronus> wormtail hesitated [15:02] <FreedomStar> the hand turned on wormtail because wormtail was obligated to return the lifedebt, and that obligation was probably a betrayal of voldemort [15:02] <FreedomStar> i honestly don't think that hesitation meant that he was hesitant to kill Harry [15:02] <ProngsPatronus> I suppose, for someone like him, that hesitation was as significant as a larger action from a less morally-challenged person [15:02] <bookworm1102> sorry im a lupin fan so thats why i am defending him so much [15:03] <FreedomStar> i really dislike Wormtail, and I look for things to incriminate him, so i'm a biased person [15:03] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I have difficulty counting Wormtail as a hero. He really sort of got his just desserts. [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> yes, he did [15:03] <MrMcGonagall> A moment of hesitation in killing Harry is hardly an act of heroism. [15:03] <ProngsPatronus> not a hero--but he did try to f=do the right thing in the end [15:04] <ProngsPatronus> for wormtail, though, the action was huge [15:04] <bookworm1102> and when wormtail died he kinda took the cowards way out [15:04] <ProngsPatronus> he was such a small person in every way [15:05] <ProngsPatronus> why else would LV jinx the hand? [15:05] <ProngsPatronus> unless he knew that wormtail still had a spark of decency in him [15:05] <bookworm1102> did LV jinx his hand? [15:05] <JaneMarple9> i think so [15:06] <MrMcGonagall> the hand turned on Wormtail when he showed a moment of mercy [15:06] <JaneMarple9> it would make it turn on wormtail, if wormtail hestated [15:06] <ProngsPatronus> I believe so, because it is impossible for a person to strangle themselves with their own hand [15:06] <JaneMarple9> exactly Mr McG [15:06] <bookworm1102> then why did i think that he killed himself just to save himself? [15:07] <MrMcGonagall> He didn't have control over the silver hand. [15:07] <bookworm1102> wow i need to reread that part [15:07] <ProngsPatronus> What are your thoughts in regards to Snape as an anti-hero? [15:07] <bookworm1102> I always thought he killed himself so he could save himself [15:07] <JaneMarple9> not sure [15:08] <ProngsPatronus> sorry, but I don't really think of Snape as a hero, although Harry was willing to give him a pass [15:08] <bookworm1102> after the princes tale chapter i will always consider Snape a hero [15:08] <JaneMarple9> snape hated harry but he still protected him - under protest, with dumbledore's insistants [15:08] <MrMcGonagall> He lacks the nobility of the hero. [15:08] <JaneMarple9> same here bookworm [15:09] <JaneMarple9> he's not as big a hero as harry and dumbledore - but i have changed my opinion of snape after the ptinces tales [15:09] <Theoriser> I still don't think of Snape as a hero, because his motivations weren't the same (at least just in my opinion) [15:09] <MrMcGonagall> What Snape did he did as penance, perhaps even out off some desire to avenge Lily's death on LV, but he lacks the purity of motive that should define a true hero. [15:09] <bookworm1102> he pretty much had nothing left when he died and after we found out why i think thats what made him a hero [15:10] <ProngsPatronus> I think that, if he had been a real hero, he would have fought LV because it was the right thing to do=---not out of revenge [15:10] <Theoriser> yes - he acted for Lily but wasn't entirely selfless [15:11] <MrMcGonagall> there was too much that was bad in Snape's character. It counterbalances the good thing he did in protecting Harry for so long. [15:11] <MrMcGonagall> Snape is not the kind of hero you emulate. [15:11] <bookworm1102> I agree [15:11] <ProngsPatronus> he also chose to hate harry because harry looked like JAmes [15:12] <MrMcGonagall> Which is why I still have MASSIVE problems with Harry naming his son after Snape. [15:12] <ProngsPatronus> rather than love harry because Harry was Lily's child [15:12] <Theoriser> me too [15:12] <ProngsPatronus> I do, too [15:12] <ProngsPatronus> but, I guess it is a good thing we are not Harry! [15:12] <Theoriser> I think people forget how nasty Snape really is because we don't see him as much in later books [15:13] <bookworm1102> I still think he was hero just not the kind of hero you are used to hearing about [15:13] <MrMcGonagall> I don't see how Harry could overlook all of the deeply horrible aspects of Snape's character. [15:13] <MrMcGonagall> Snape's just sad. [15:13] <Theoriser> but in book 4, when he says 'I see no difference' to Hermione, that was just unforgivable [15:13] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps it was because of the gift that Snape gave Harry--the memories of his mother, Lily [15:14] <MrMcGonagall> I'd rather have heard it from Petunia's lips, to be honest. [15:14] <Theoriser> there was no reason for him to be so nasty to Harry, you'd have thought he could be nice to Harry 'for Lily' [15:14] <ProngsPatronus> Pet5unia hated her sister [15:14] <ProngsPatronus> was jealous of her [15:14] <MrMcGonagall> Petunia's just a non-hero. LOL [15:14] <JaneMarple9> yes petunia hated lily - she wanted to go to hogwarts too [15:14] <ProngsPatronus> Snape's memories of Lily were loving ones, if obsessed [15:15] <JaneMarple9> she's a hero to put up with vernon and dudley :lol: [15:15] <ProngsPatronus> James didn't know her as a child [15:15] <bookworm1102> maybe it was just was easier for Harry to forgive him then to hold a grudge plus maybe he gave his son snapes name b/c in a way he knew that snape would be mad that harry the hero named Lily grandson after him [15:15] <ProngsPatronus> hehehe--good one, bookworm! [15:16] <JaneMarple9> i think harry named severus severus because he finally gained respect for snape [15:16] <ProngsPatronus> Heroes often have relationships with gods or god-like figures. How is this role fulfilled in Harry’s journey? [15:16] <ProngsPatronus> Dumbledore [15:16] <bookworm1102> dumbledore [15:16] <MrMcGonagall> Dumbledore, especially in King's Cross, is rather god-like. [15:16] <JaneMarple9> dumbledore definately [15:17] <ProngsPatronus> lol [15:17] <bookworm1102> i think we are all in agreement :) [15:17] <ProngsPatronus> yes [15:17] <ProngsPatronus> Since Harry did not attend Hogwarts in his final year, Neville followed in his footsteps and became a leader for the other students despite the hardships he faced. Although Harry is considered to be the hero of this novel, can Neville still be viewed as a hero as well? [15:17] <ProngsPatronus> oh, I think Neville is definitely a hero [15:17] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think Neville is a hero. He could have kept his head down any number of times, but he met every challenge and defied all kinds of odds. [15:18] <JaneMarple9> neville's my all time hero! [15:18] <bookworm1102> i thik in a way jo showed us how it could have possably have been if neville was in harrys place [15:18] <Theoriser> yes, definitely [15:18] <JaneMarple9> he's wonderful - he could have also been the chosen one [15:18] <Theoriser> Neville was like the stand-in Harry at Hogwarts [15:18] <MrMcGonagall> In some ways, I think Neville's hero journey is even more dramatic than Harry's. [15:18] <JaneMarple9> and he destroyed nagini too! [15:18] <ProngsPatronus> he took what he learned from Harry, and used it of his own accord [15:18] <JaneMarple9> i'd say so Mr McG [15:19] <Theoriser> you really got to see why he was in gryffindor after all [15:19] <bookworm1102> yea jane so in a way neville helped in LVs downfall [15:19] <ProngsPatronus> Now that we have learned the truth behind why Snape killing Dumbledore, is Dumbledore’s final act of hiding Harry considered heroic? [15:20] <bookworm1102> wow thats a hard question [15:20] <ProngsPatronus> sorry [15:20] <ProngsPatronus> I think it was heroic, because of Fenrir [15:20] <MrMcGonagall> Oh, hiding him on the tower. [15:20] <ProngsPatronus> the other death eaters would have killed harry [15:21] <bookworm1102> but is it heroic if DD knew harry was going to die anyway? [15:21] <MrMcGonagall> I guess I had never really thought of it as heroic in the first place. It just seemed such a Dumbledorey thing to do. [15:22] <ProngsPatronus> I still have trouble with the tower scene [15:22] <bookworm1102> especally if DD himself was going to die anyway [15:22] <ProngsPatronus> but he saved harry there [15:22] <MrMcGonagall> I think there is an element of heroism in it. His thought was to protect Harry. [15:23] <ProngsPatronus> our last question of the chat: [15:23] <ProngsPatronus> Is Harry simply a modern day hero or has Jo created a new genre for the hero? [15:23] <bookworm1102> I guess im just wondering after all we know was there a point in protecting harry [15:23] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think it's a new genre of hero, really. [15:24] <MrMcGonagall> I think he's rather archetypal. [15:24] <ProngsPatronus> and not so modern [15:24] <bookworm1102> I thik he would be a morden day hero [15:24] <ProngsPatronus> to me, he is the Hero in the Hero's Journey [15:24] <Theoriser> yes, it all fits with the hero's journey [15:24] <ProngsPatronus> just like Gilgamesh, and a thousand others [15:26] <Theoriser> so he is imply a modern day hero that follows the pattern of the traditional hero [15:26] <Theoriser> *simply [15:26] <bookworm1102> agreed [15:26] <ProngsPatronus> and sorely needed! [15:27] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [15:27] <MrMcGonagall> Thnks for coming to the chat, everyone! Next week we promise to have the Booth open at the normal time for this chat, 2-3 pm EST. lol [15:27] <ProngsPatronus> thanks for coming! [15:27] <bookworm1102> bye guys [15:27] <MrMcGonagall> so long as Snuffles is behaving himself! [15:27] <ProngsPatronus> you have contributed to a bit of Leaky history! [15:27] *** bookworm1102 left #lounge [] [15:27] <MrMcGonagall> He's been pretty good lately. [15:28] <ProngsPatronus> yes--regular feedings contribute to his better temper [15:28] <ProngsPatronus> so does a flea collar |
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