Time Turner Confusion |
 Nov 22 2009, 09:53 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 15 Joined: 4:04pm February 21, 2009  |
I was re-reading HP3 and was extremely confused by the whole time turner business. I guess I never really understood...
 If someone could please explain to me the events that take place and how the time turner makes any sense that would be great! Thanks!
|
 |
  
 
|
|
Nov 22 2009, 11:39 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 8 Joined: 9:31am September 29, 2009 |
Pretty much what happens is Hermione couldn't decide what subjects to pick for her third year at school so decided to take all of them and organised with Professor Mcgonall to get a time turner to be able to make it possible to attend all these classes as some of them are on at the same time she is required to be in 2 places possiby 3 at once. (subtle hints are given such as Ron asking how she can be at two clases at once and confirming with another student that she was in a different class at the same time.)
After all the events shreiking shack, Lupin becoming a Werewolf, Wormtail escaping and Sirius and Harry being attacked by dementors, in the hospital wing Dumbledore says 3 spins should do it etc. etc. (you know what happens) Harry and Hermione go back in time, Hermione says its a rule to try not to be seen by yourself or you will think something is wrong and that they're not supposed to mess with the past or something. By using the time turner it becomes possible for them to set Sirius free by making sure they're not seen and that they are around to save themselves wherever they can. Upon reading what Harry and Hermione are doing it becomes apparent that while they were at Hagrids, once Lupin transformed and Sirius and Harry were being attacked that Hermione and Harry were there with the time turner all the time- they threw the rock that warned them about Fudge, saved Buckbeak, lured Lupin away, used a Patronus on the dementors and set Sirius free. All of which were a mystery to them (and the reader) before reading the time turner side of things. The time turner makes it possible for the two to go back in time and change the past. I hope this actually helped you understand, I dunno if its the kind of answer you wanted lol |
|
|
|
|
Nov 24 2009, 11:38 AM
Post
#3
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man  Posts: 11,312 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape   |
QUOTE(madamedollface @ Nov 23 2009, 03:39 AM)  they threw the rock that warned them about Fudge, If I recall correctly (which I might not) isnt the rock throwing scene in the movie only? Because, that's the only inconsistent element. Otherwise, nothing that happens while using the Time Turner didnt already happen. The first time around they couldnt have been outside watching Fudge arrive because, they were already inside with Hagrid. Otherwise, everything else remains the same, like they originally believed that Buckbeak had been executed but, he hadnt. Sure, it's their intervention using the Time Turner that prevented it happening but, their time travel didnt actually change events because Buckbeak was never executed in the first place. 
--------------------   I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
|
|
|
|
Nov 25 2009, 12:09 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 75 Joined: 9:47am August 19, 2009 |
Yes the stone-throwing was in the movie only. But it is no more "inconsistent" than Harry summoning the Patronus and saving himself from the dementors by the lake...
The time turner works consistently with the predestination paradox, which means nothing that happens is inconsistent. "I knew I could do it this time" said Harry, "because I'd already done it... Does that make sense?" |
|
|
|
|
Nov 25 2009, 12:34 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man Posts: 11,312 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
QUOTE(Burger @ Nov 25 2009, 04:09 PM) Yes the stone-throwing was in the movie only. But it is no more "inconsistent" than Harry summoning the Patronus and saving himself from the dementors by the lake... The time turner works consistently with the predestination paradox, which means nothing that happens is inconsistent. "I knew I could do it this time" said Harry, "because I'd already done it... Does that make sense?"  When Harry summons the Patronus, he had already done so (this is where I get a little confused) because, in the past his future self (that he thought was James) had conjured it and, the second time around he conjured it because he knew that he'd already done so. So as you said, nothing is inconsistent. The stone throwing for me is the one disappointment in the movie because, to me it seems inconsistent. In a way it is similar to the Patronus, it's an act of intervention that prevents a result. But, somehow it doesnt add up the way the Patronus does  Otherwise, what JKR wrote in the book is not inconsistent because, it all already happened. -------------------- I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J. When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
|
|
|
|
Nov 25 2009, 12:51 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic  Posts: 9,275 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(Burger @ Nov 25 2009, 05:09 PM) Yes the stone-throwing was in the movie only. But it is no more "inconsistent" than Harry summoning the Patronus and saving himself from the dementors by the lake... The movie stone throwing is more inconsistent because the pre-time travel and post-time travel versions are slightly different, in particular the jar smashes in a different way. I am not convinced the movie patronus scenes are quite consistent either.On the other hand the events in the book are indeed consistent, though the trio misinterpret some events the first time around. --------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
|
|
|
|
Nov 26 2009, 09:03 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 75 Joined: 9:47am August 19, 2009 |
QUOTE(Moose_Starr @ Nov 25 2009, 05:34 PM) When Harry summons the Patronus, he had already done so (this is where I get a little confused) because, in the past his future self (that he thought was James) had conjured it and, the second time around he conjured it because he knew that he'd already done so. So as you said, nothing is inconsistent. The stone throwing for me is the one disappointment in the movie because, to me it seems inconsistent. In a way it is similar to the Patronus, it's an act of intervention that prevents a result. But, somehow it doesnt add up the way the Patronus does Otherwise, what JKR wrote in the book is not inconsistent because, it all already happened. It's all about causality and the predestination paradox  (ignore the broken jar, that is presumably just a continuity error on the film set) Cause and effect... one event is the cause, and the other is the effect. That is how we know the universe to work. If I drop a glass then it will break. A causality loop occurs when the effect of one action loops back around to become its own cause. The patronus gets cast, that is the original cause. The effect is that Harry doesn't die, and is able to go back into the past. Harry going back into the past and realizing that it was him casting the patronus all along becomes the cause, and the patronus becomes the effect. The patronus is the cause of Harry not dying... we're back where we started, in a loop. Similarly for the stone. The stone hits Hermione, that is the cause. The effect is that the trio don't get caught by Fudge, but instead discover the tunnel to the shreiking shack and are able to go back into the past. They go into the past and Hermione sees that they are going to be caught, that becomes the cause for her action. The effect is that she throws the stone to make past-them look out of the window. So again we have a loop, just like the patronus. Basically, the time turner does not allow you to go back and change the past. It only allows you to go back and do whatever it was that you already did. |
|
|
|
