"To Kill a Mockingbird" comparisons with ..., "Lord of the Flies", "Animal Farm" others? |
 Aug 8 2008, 06:37 AM
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One Half of the DDD  Posts: 8,476 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere   |
Someone said to me recently that To Kill a Mockingbird had been compared with Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm as being similar, in a "if you liked those two books you'd love this one" way, which had put them off reading Mockingbird, until now, because they really didn't like those two books.
My first thought was that I couldn't really see how they were similar but, now that I think more about it, I can see some linked themes about man's inhumanity to man and the fragility of equality, how the authors seem to be saying that it's almost inevitable that in any society some people will see some others as "superior" or "inferior" due to skin colour, body shape, age, religion, education, ability, wealth etc. For instance, in Mockingbird black people are no longer slaves, but they're not seen as equal to white people, those with a poor education are also looked down upon but not as much as black people, which is why the Ewells are believed above Tom Robinson, so there's a hierarchy and prejudice. In Animal Farm/Lord of the Flies, after the revolution/plane crash, all the animals/boys are supposed to be equal and yet a hierarchy gradually emerges which has consequences, just as the assumption of Tom Robinson's guilt is a consequence of the perceived hierarchy and resulting prejudice in Mockingbird. If you've read Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies what do you think of the comparisons? Do you agree or disagree that their themes are linked with To Kill a Mockingbird? If you agree can you see other linked themes between those books? Are there other books that you think share a theme with this one? What do you think of putting books into categories? Does it encourage or discourage you to read a book? Have you ever read a book simply because it was said to be similar to something you enjoyed? If so what was the book and its comparison and were you glad you read it? Don't feel that you need to answer all of these questions, you don't need to answer any specifically, but we'd love to hear your views on putting books into categories based on themes. This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 8 2008, 06:40 AM --------------------  November's book is The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Aug 9 2008, 10:08 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher  Posts: 200 Joined: 6:20pm May 20, 2007 Location: the Hills of Nowhere |
I have read LotF, but not Animal Farm, but in comparing LotF to TKMB, I can see some comparisons, but I don't really think that they fall into the same catagory. They both do deal with a heirarchy of humanity, but while LotF seems to say that such a heirarchy is inevitable, and maybe can't be fought against, TKMB seems to be more optimistic about man's fight against the heirarchy. When Jem is trying to classify Maycomb into 4 groups of people, Scout (who seems to speak for the author in many cases) says that she thinks there's only one kind of folks... folks. I'm also biased towards TKMB, because I love it, while LotF has earned a place on my "most loathed books" list.
If I hear a book is similar to another book, it will probably influence me on whether I read it or not, depending on how well I liked the book I've read. It would also depend on who was making the recommendation. If it's someone I know has good taste in books (that is to say, the same as me), then I'm more likely to expect their recommendations to be good ones. The only book I remember reading specifically because I read that it was like another was 1984 by George Orwell, because I had read on the back of Gathering Blue by Lois Lowry that GB was like 1984 for children. I wasn't too convinced by that comparison by the end of 1984, but I did... not really enjoy, but appreciate 1984, in a well-that-was-informative-and-thought-provoking-but-let's-not-ever-read-this-book-again way. Wouldn'tcha know it, I had to read it again, not 2 months later for school? -------------------- You said, "I know that this will hurt,
But if I don't break your heart, things will just get worse. If the burden seems too much to bear, Remember, the end will justify the pain it took to get us there." ~Let It All Out, Relient K |
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Aug 11 2008, 05:39 PM
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Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man  Posts: 11,140 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape  |
1984 is another of the books *in the same category* as TKAM. 1984 is an interesting book, I read it as a kid and it was my own choice to read it, and I loved the new words like *double plus* (I went through a phase where everything was double plus cool, double plus fragile ... ) but, I dont think I'd choose to read it again. However, I do have good memories of the book.
Alas I had the misfortune to also read Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies which I did not like at all. LOTF has permanently scarred me I think. It was because of this that I hadnt read TKAM until a few weeks ago, I'd avoided the recomended reading at school & every time I looked at TKAM is was put into the category with those three books. Which is why I'd never read it. (The movie which I've never seen gets put into the same category as Soylent Green, which I have seen) I guess categorizing is good if they get it right but in my opinion they havent here. I love TKAM but severely dislike LOTF. I dont see the similarities. I was reading TKAM with fear & apprehension, waiting for the moment when one of the kids get his skull smashed open & his brains come spilling out (I *really* dont like LOTF) so how they can say, If you liked TKAM you'll love LOTF is a mystery to me. Yes there is man's inhumanity to man in TKAM but so there is in a lot of books but personally I would not put them in the same category as LOTF. TKAM deals with terrible situations but in a totally different way and setting than LOTF. 
--------------------   I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
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Aug 12 2008, 07:46 AM
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One Half of the DDD Posts: 8,476 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere |
I really liked LoTF, the skull smashing thing shocked me because I never thought things would go that far but I think that's maybe why I liked it, it took a twist that I really didn't expect but you're right Moose, a lot of books follow a similar theme so classifiying that together with TKaM is something I don't fully understand. Yes, I also saw Soylent Green and for years couldn't bring myself to eat spinach pasta because of the memories it brought back, thankfully I'm over that now lol.
This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 13 2008, 05:10 PM -------------------- November's book is The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Aug 12 2008, 11:19 PM
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant Posts: 1,963 Joined: 8:57am March 12, 2005 Location: at Home or somewhere in between |
Believe it or not, To Kill a Mockingbird never showed up on one of my required reading lists (and I had many) while I was in school. Reading these posts has made me want to run to the bookstore and add some more to this conversation!
 From what I've read so far, it seems that Harper Lee might have been heavily influenced by Mark Twain in her style and portrayal of the different dialects in being able to actually "hear" them as they are being read. I found that amazing with Mark Twain, once I was able to relax and just let the characters "speak" for themselves, the words literally came to life for me on the page. Not that Mark Twain's work was contemporary to TKAM, but I think his writings such as Tom Sawyer and especially The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn posed some very serious social questions which might have laid a lot of the groundwork for the Civil Rights movement, and was also written from the first person perspective of an adolescent growing up in the midst of crisis and the organization of a "New Order".My oldest is currently reading Lord of the Flies, and had already read 1984 and Animal Farm on her own last year. I do think it is interesting that she is reading these books in a "block" and that she didn't get any direction towards reading them like that, it just worked out that way. She is very socially and politically conscious, and all of these books offer examinations of what can happen when our "raw" nature is severely restricted and then suddenly set free, and what the ramifications can be. Lord of the Flies is brutal in its honesty, but I do think it is an important read. It asks the moral question of : "Is it OK to do something just because I can do it?". It is shocking, but it gets us to consider ourselves at our absolute worst, and what truly makes us human. -------------------- Avatar made with Poser 6 and Photoshop Elements
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Aug 14 2008, 07:22 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release |
QUOTE(Moose_Starr @ Aug 12 2008, 08:39 AM)  1984 is another of the books *in the same category* as TKAM. 1984 is an interesting book, I read it as a kid and it was my own choice to read it, and I loved the new words like *double plus* (I went through a phase where everything was double plus cool, double plus fragile ... ) but, I dont think I'd choose to read it again. However, I do have good memories of the book. Alas I had the misfortune to also read Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies which I did not like at all. LOTF has permanently scarred me I think. It was because of this that I hadnt read TKAM until a few weeks ago, I'd avoided the recomended reading at school & every time I looked at TKAM is was put into the category with those three books. Which is why I'd never read it. (The movie which I've never seen gets put into the same category as Soylent Green, which I have seen) I guess categorizing is good if they get it right but in my opinion they havent here. I love TKAM but severely dislike LOTF. I dont see the similarities. I was reading TKAM with fear & apprehension, waiting for the moment when one of the kids get his skull smashed open & his brains come spilling out (I *really* dont like LOTF) so how they can say, If you liked TKAM you'll love LOTF is a mystery to me. Yes there is man's inhumanity to man in TKAM but so there is in a lot of books but personally I would not put them in the same category as LOTF. TKAM deals with terrible situations but in a totally different way and setting than LOTF. Like you I am puzzled by comparisons between TKAM, Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm. I read Animal farm as a fantasy and as a satirical comment on Stalinism in particular. LOTF is a British book, somewhat bleaker than the just as gruesome Coral Island (R.M.Ballantyne) that was on one of my reading lists. LOTF is definitely a contrast to Coral Island, a Victorian novel in style. I thought it was ironic that in the book of Lord of the Flies, the stranded boys were choristers, whereas the film portrays them as being from a military academy. The ship's boys of Coral Island remained friends and threats were external rather than the internal tribalism of LOTF. It is this difference in behaviour that is noted in the closing comment of the newly arrived Naval Officer that he would have thought that British boys would have behaved better. I know what you mean by Soylent Green, a reason for turning me off the idea of reading1984, also Charlton Heston, and other futuristic films. I can't remember when I read Harper Lee's book which wasn't available until I left school when the Civil Rights movement was about to start in America. But I enjoyed the film immensely and had a great deal of respect for Atticus Finch for doing his best to defend Tom Robinson's innocence. It was stories like this, like Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, which have had a profound influence elsewhere, not just in USA, by the way. The trouble is that until I saw the film of Huckleberry Finn, I wasn't interested in that story which I'd tried to read several times due to reading lists. I thought initially it was just stories about a couple of boys skiving off work and school. We already had Ginger Meggs and Fatty Finn for that. There were other books by Mark Twain that I enjoyed more, such as the Prince and the Pauper. --------------------  Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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Aug 14 2008, 10:14 AM
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant Posts: 1,963 Joined: 8:57am March 12, 2005 Location: at Home or somewhere in between |
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Aug 14 2008, 12:22 PM) Like you I am puzzled by comparisons between TKAM, Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm. I read Animal farm as a fantasy and as a satirical comment on Stalinism in particular. LOTF is a British book, somewhat bleaker than the just as gruesome Coral Island (R.M.Ballantyne) that was on one of my reading lists. LOTF is definitely a contrast to Coral Island, a Victorian novel in style. I thought it was ironic that in the book of Lord of the Flies, the stranded boys were choristers, whereas the film portrays them as being from a military academy. The ship's boys of Coral Island remained friends and threats were external rather than the internal tribalism of LOTF. It is this difference in behaviour that is noted in the closing comment of the newly arrived Naval Officer that he would have thought that British boys would have behaved better. bold mineNow this is strictly conjecture, but my guess is that Golding made his "boys" choristers for emphasis of the point that even within the most cultured of Society, the potential for savagery exists. Calling someone a "choir boy" implies an upstanding, spiritual and gentle person, along with a veiled question regarding their masculinity; since up until the late 19th century (when the practice was made illegal), Castrati were the "angelic" singers of a choir. My guess that the shift from choirboys to military cadets for the film version was a conscious effort to reduce the potentially homophobic implications, especially in light of the highly suggestive imagery that is present in the book. QUOTE It was stories like this, like Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, which have had a profound influence elsewhere, not just in USA, by the way. The trouble is that until I saw the film of Huckleberry Finn, I wasn't interested in that story which I'd tried to read several times due to reading lists. I thought initially it was just stories about a couple of boys skiving off work and school. We already had Ginger Meggs and Fatty Finn for that. There were other books by Mark Twain that I enjoyed more, such as the Prince and the Pauper. The first time I tried to read Huckleberry Finn, I believe it was so tedious for me that I threw the book against the wall  . It wasn't until I thoroughly enjoyed A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and I was definitely more "initiated" into his style, that I was able to actually sit down and "get" Huckleberry Finn. I didn't know that HF has held a profound influence in other places, since it always seemed to me such an "American" book (as HP is a "British" book), yet I guess that really shouldn't surprise me. Stories like this give a "snapshot" view of the culture of the time, that as I think about it, they are great history lessons in themselves, (though from a "novel"  perspective). These books aren't "flattering" to our historical egos, so perhaps that is why they find themselves on the challenged lists so often. 
This post has been edited by momwitch: Aug 14 2008, 12:12 PM -------------------- Avatar made with Poser 6 and Photoshop Elements
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Aug 14 2008, 06:43 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release |
QUOTE(momwitch @ Aug 15 2008, 01:14 AM) QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Aug 14 2008, 12:22 PM) the stranded boys were choristers, whereas the film portrays them as being from a military academy. Now this is strictly conjecture, but my guess is that Golding made his "boys" choristers for emphasis of the point that even within the most cultured of Society, the potential for savagery exists. Calling someone a "choir boy" implies an upstanding, spiritual and gentle person, along with a veiled question regarding their masculinity; since up until the late 19th century (when the practice was made illegal), Castrati were the "angelic" singers of a choir. My guess that the shift from choirboys to military cadets for the film version was a conscious effort to reduce the potentially homophobic implications, especially in light of the highly suggestive imagery that is present in the book. When I caught up on Wikipedia refreshers for Coral Island and Lord of the Flies I found there was indeed a relationship between these two books. Coral Island was heavily imbued with Christian references and relates the adventures of Ralph Rover (the narrator), Jack Martin and Peterkin Gay on a well-provisioned island civilize the natives and survive pirates with their Christian beliefs. Lord of the Flies show how a group of boys, choristers from a highly disciplined Church boarding School, turn into savages and pirates themselves. Significantly, the leading characters of LOTF are called Jack, Ralph (the hero) and Piggy. I rather missed the idea of castrati being connected with this book. QUOTE The first time I tried to read Huckleberry Finn, I believe it was so tedious for me that I threw the book against the wall . It wasn't until I thoroughly enjoyed A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and I was definitely more "initiated" into his style, that I was able to actually sit down and "get" Huckleberry Finn. I didn't know that HF has held a profound influence in other places, since it always seemed to me such an "American" book (as HP is a "British" book), yet I guess that really shouldn't surprise me. Stories like this give a "snapshot" view of the culture of the time, that as I think about it, they are great history lessons in themselves, (though from a "novel" perspective). These books aren't "flattering" to our historical egos, so perhaps that is why they find themselves on the challenged lists so often. I distinctly remember Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, HF & Tom Sawyer being touted by teachers which is why I found them hard to read, though I did grasp what they said about slavery and man's inhumanity to man. I wonder if the publication of Harper Lee's To kill a Mockingbird was a catalyst not only to the American Civil Rights movement the doings of which I heard on the radio, but also for the successful referendum of 1967 which gave Aboriginals full citizenship of Australia, which they had not had previously. I'm not saying that there aren't injustices elsewhere. But highlighting American injustices such as the one in Mockingbird, may inspire others to behave differently. -------------------- Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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Aug 14 2008, 08:32 PM
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant Posts: 1,963 Joined: 8:57am March 12, 2005 Location: at Home or somewhere in between |
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Aug 14 2008, 11:43 PM) Significantly, the leading characters of LOTF are called Jack, Ralph (the hero) and Piggy. I rather missed the idea of castrati being connected with this book. I see it only as a very indirect connection, and why I mentioned it strictly as conjecture. To me, it seemed that Golding used choirboys to break stereotypical assumptions, to show that savagery is present in even the most "civilized" among us (ie. singing in a choir being a "most civilized" thing to do). I didn't mean that any of the characters in the story were castrati. I mentioned the castrati as they were the ultimate choirboys in their day - yet like Peter Pan, they never grew up - they never fully became men. This post has been edited by momwitch: Aug 14 2008, 09:18 PM -------------------- Avatar made with Poser 6 and Photoshop Elements
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Aug 15 2008, 02:00 PM
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Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,430 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade  |
I first read Mockingbird as an eighth grader (I had a marvelous teacher that year, who recognized what other teachers didn't--I could read, really READ). I do not, have not, seen any real thematic connections with Animal Farm or Lord of the Flies. I suppose I can see a similarity with Huckleberry Finn, however.
--------------------  click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
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