Tobias and Eileen, Clues in their names? |
 Jan 13 2006, 01:11 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Official Member of the John Noe Rescue Society  Posts: 439 Joined: 10:21am June 16, 2005 Location: NYC   |
I don't know if there are clues, but as we've got a year and a half to go until the next book, I'm willing to look anywhere to bide the time.
TOBIAS In the bible there are several people called Tobias: Tobias the elder and Tobias, father of Hircanus. Tobias is a Greek version of the Hebrew biblical name "Tobijah", meaning "god is good". The "Book of Tobias" is an older name for the Book of Tobit, one of books in the Apocrypha. It relates how Tobias is able to defeat a demon with the help of the archangel Raphael. The story of Tobias' journey with the angel was a popular subject in renaissance art. Snape (v.) - 'to be hard upon, rebuke, snub,' c.1300, from Old Norse sneypa 'to outrage, dishonor, disgrace.' EILEEN Eileen Irish name meaning "shining." Variants include Aileen, Eilene, Ileen and Helen. |
 |
  
 
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 01:39 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Monster Book Stacker Posts: 373 Joined: 2:32pm December 31, 2005 Location: Dialing 62442 in every red telephone box I find! ~Thanks to Foxypoet for 'Lost' avatar!~ |
Interesting thoughts which could be accurate because JK Rowling we know chooses her characters names for a reason so the meanings of Tobias and Eileen could be significant in whether Snape is good or evil. cool post Saffron.
-------------------- 'i like dawwwwwlish.....'
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 03:33 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Leaky's Resident Bibliophile Posts: 8,279 Joined: 5:01pm April 18, 2005 Location: Finding Neverland.  |
How about talking about the way their relationship worked??
Tobias, from what we saw in OotP, was an abusive man. And I don't think that Eileen could get out of it. At least I don't think she would get out of it because of Severus. -------------------- "I know who Harry Potter is. I just don't know who the other two are. Himmie and Roland?"
"No, Grandma, Ron and Hermione." |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 04:04 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Disgruntled House-Elf at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 408 Joined: 9:53pm October 29, 2005 |
I always thought Tobias was a strange name for a Muggle...it's almost as if he were the wizard in the family.
As for how their relationship worked, the only clues we have are the memory and the fact that Snape turned out the way he did. So I tend to view Tobias as highly abusive. But I think Eileen might have left him at some point because it just got to be too much. I am actually just starting up a Maurader era fan fic in which Eileen does leave Tobias so if there are any clues in canon that this definitely is not the case, please let me know. --------------------  |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 04:11 PM
Post
#5
|
|
Director of Nicholas Flamel Laboratories Posts: 11,087 Joined: 11:06am January 28, 2005 Location: Lighting the mountain path for Llewellyn ap Gryffudd |
QUOTE EILEEN Eileen Irish name meaning "shining." Variants include Aileen, Eilene, Ileen and Helen. Interesting. I just looked this up for another thread and it said that Eileen is the Anglicized form of the Irish Gaelic EIBHLÍN, which means "hostile." -------------------- The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.--Harlan Ellison
My father considered a walk among the mountains as the equivalent of churchgoing.--Aldous Huxley |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 05:16 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Trying to Resell a Used Comet Two-Sixty Posts: 2,574 Joined: 6:16pm October 4, 2005 Location: Reading the Lexicon |
QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Jan. 13 2006,16:11 ) QUOTE EILEEN Eileen Irish name meaning "shining." Variants include Aileen, Eilene, Ileen and Helen. Interesting. I just looked this up for another thread and it said that Eileen is the Anglicized form of the Irish Gaelic EIBHLÍN, which means "hostile." Although from what you just brought up, I'm actually so exited I can hardly type-Eileen is the same as Emmeline, this just has me SO totally psyched. Emmeline Vance, that Snape "betrayed", that was in the Order, it's so brilliant! Now I'm afraid everyone will think I'm nuts. Oh well. I've been sure as anything Emmeline was a clue to something. And frankly I was pretty sure that she was his mother. http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/iri2.php EIBHLÍN f Irish Irish form of both AVELINE and EMELINE EILEEN f Irish, English Anglicized form of EIBHLÍN http://www.weddingvendors.com/baby-names/o.../german/page-2/ Em Variant of Emma: Whole, complete, universal. Old German 'ermin' or 'irmin', meaning universal. Also a diminutive of any feminine name starting with Em-. http://www.20000-names.com/female_i_names.htm IRMA: Old German name meaning "whole; universal." EMMA: Old German name meaning "entire; universal." Variant, Emmeline, exists. Diminutives include Em, Emmie, and Emmy. Just for good measure-Vance-dweller in a fen, marshland, or dweller by a windmill (something like Spinner's End, perhaps?). Irma also refers to the God of War, Irmen or Ermin in Old German. Emma also relates to Emily-which implies industrious or hardworking (Remember Snape feeling "overworked" according to Hagrid? Hmm.) Then we have DD saying "I trust Severus Snape completely." Finally, coats of arms, my favorite subject-both Prince and Vance are red and gold (I checked about 15 main characters and they weren't these colors). Vance says "Be Faithful." To the "Be Faithful" I will add, Book of Tobias, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14749c.htm QUOTE D. Purpose-To show that God is faithful to those that are faithful to Him Which I think would very nicely explain the relationship between Snape and DD. DD trusts him because he IS loyal to him.I'm telling you right now three people have no business having the same name if they aren't the same person! Eileen Prince, Emmeline Vance, Irma Pince. And to add something I posted in Snape's Loyalty just today QUOTE A completely separate thing I want to mention-does anyone think it's interesting that twice (at least) DD says Snape "returned"? Let's find these . . . p.590-1 GOF "I have given evidence already on this matter," he said calmly. "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk." and from HBP p. 549 "You have no idea the remorse Professor Snape felt when he realized how Lord Voldemort had interpreted the prophecy, Harry. I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned-" Doesn't this seem a bit odd? From what we've seen of Snape, how could he return to "our side"? But if Eileen was an Order member, as Emmeline Vance, because she knew Voldemort as Tom from school? That would follow. -------------------- “Sweet is true love that is given in vain, and sweet is death that takes away pain.” -Alfred, Lord Tennyson |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 05:25 PM
Post
#7
|
|
Diagon Alley Magical Bricklayer Posts: 2,876 Joined: 8:17pm June 28, 2005 Location: waiting on summer |
I'm staying FAR away from that one! I'm going to go back to Tobais, myself.
I think that his name says it all and that we don't have to go to the root to understand him. To Bias. He has a bias, he probably found out later that his wife was a witch and his son was a wizard. The memory we see has Elieen (we assume) in a corner and Snape crying. The question is - why didn't she defend herself? It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to think that this particular muggle's behavior influenced Snape to later become a death eater (muggle hater) -------------------- "
It's not just the books under fire now that worry me. It is the books that will never be written. The books that will never be read. And all due to the fear of censorship. As always, young readers will be the real losers." J. Blume |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 05:54 PM
Post
#8
|
|
Junior Dishwasher at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 606 Joined: 3:16pm September 21, 2005 Location: Shrieking in my own shack. |
I'm very glad someone started a thread on this couple.
I've wondered if Eileen Prince didn't use a love potion on Tobias Snape, much as Merope did on Tom Riddle Sr.. Perhaps once the potion was allowed to wear off and Tobias realized what had happened, he treated her and Severus very badly. It would fit in with Eileen being talented at Potions. Perhaps Tobias became biased against wizards and witches because Eileen had tricked him and Severus in turn had a thing against muggles. Yeah, I know it's a theory but wait - this might be another reason why, if Severus did fall in love with Lily, given that she was Muggle born, he tried to act like he didn't. My vote is Tobias does have something to do with "to bias." That makes a lot of sense. We know he was a muggle, so he wouldn't be prejudice against muggles, would he? But he might be against magical folk. Eileen meaning "horrid" or "shining" is very curious. Judging from the meanings of the other names in this family, I'd have to go with "horrid." It doesn't appear that Severus had a great childhood from what we know so far. Eileen didn't seem to do much to help her son, either. Regarding Eileen, Irma and Emmeline, I just think that they are similiar. I mean if the HBP book was originally Eileen's as it's 50 years old in HBP, that means Eileen was attending Hogwarts just after World War II, and just after Grindelwald. So, if there was an Order of the Phoenix during the fight against Grindelwald, then she could have been a member of it at that time. Another thing that is curious is Hermione is telling Harry that there was an article telling Eileen had married Tobias Snape, then there was an article announcing the birth of - and Harry cuts in to say a "murderer," and Hermione sort of says "well, yeah," but then is never allowed to finish her sentence. This is frequently a red flag in HP Land. I've wondered if Snape has a twin or something. Was Hermione about to say something other than that the article only announced the birth of Severus Snape. Was there another Snape? -------------------- |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 06:34 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Trying to Resell a Used Comet Two-Sixty Posts: 2,574 Joined: 6:16pm October 4, 2005 Location: Reading the Lexicon |
OK, I did say everyone would think I was nuts. But I'll soldier on. I've calmed down a bit now.
 hpaddict-I definitely agree with you about Tobias-it's truly perfect. To bias. It's who made him biased against Muggles when he really shouldn't be. Anyway, I didn't mean to scare you! from JKR-"Names are really crucial to me. Some of my characters have had 8 or 9 names before I hit the right one. And for some reason, I just can’t move on until I know I’ve called them the right thing. That’s very fundamental to me." I am just saying it's really, really odd to have three people with virtually the same first name. -------------------- “Sweet is true love that is given in vain, and sweet is death that takes away pain.” -Alfred, Lord Tennyson |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2006, 07:05 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Technology Expert! Posts: 6,571 Joined: 9:30pm July 1, 2005 |
QUOTE(PAM2002 @ Jan. 13 2006,6:34 pm) OK, I did say everyone would think I was nuts. But I'll soldier on. I've calmed down a bit now. hpaddict-I definitely agree with you about Tobias-it's truly perfect. To bias. It's who made him biased against Muggles when he really shouldn't be. Anyway, I didn't mean to scare you! from JKR-"Names are really crucial to me. Some of my characters have had 8 or 9 names before I hit the right one. And for some reason, I just can’t move on until I know I’ve called them the right thing. That’s very fundamental to me." I am just saying it's really, really odd to have three people with virtually the same first name. It is really odd and like a lot of other odd things it is probably a clue to something, and maybe something that isn't even related to those three persons. Edited to add: I don't think you are nuts, by the way i did, just out of curiousity, a bit of numerology, just the calculation, no interpretation and both Irma Pince and Eileen Prince vibe to the same number and that number is 7. --------------------  |
|
|
|
