Transformation of a Lump of Lead into Gold, Your Alchemy Primer |
  Jun 1 2008, 04:27 PM
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#21
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Official Grandmother at the Lily and Stag Inn  Posts: 2,728 Joined: 4:33pm February 27, 2007 Location: Having tea with Minerva McGonagall at Hogwarts   |
OK so I can see Hagrid's role in the Hero's Journey, but I am very confused about his role in the Alchemical process.
Speaking to what Harry must Separate out of his life, I see that his self image as well as his identity must change. First as merrythought has said, he must deal with his fame. For 11 years he has been a nobody., a good and caring person but nonetheless a nobody who rates at the bottom of everyone's heap. Suddenly he finds out the he is "The Boy Who Lived". He is unique, a person mentioned in books, a wizard and a student at a wizard's school, a Gryffindor even! He is being bombarded with new information. Fortunately he has Ron and Hagrid to help him understand what all this means. He has to get used to creating a stir wherever he goes. Outwardly he shrugs it off, but inwardly he has a lot to sort out. He learns that his fame makes his potions class a continuous nightmare. Professor Snape does not like him and enjoys taunting him. Hermione Granger is a lot smarter than he is. Neville Longbottom is much more timid than he is even though he is a pureblood.. He has been thrust into an unimaginable environment with which he must learn to cope. He starts coping by sharing his food with Ron and questioning him on wizarding life. He shows his spunk when he rebuffs Draco and co. He shows that he knows some of what he wants when he asks the Sorting Hat not to put him in Slytherin. He plunges into the process of Separation with speed and openness. His dream shows us that he can face only so much of this new Harry right now. There is a limit. In this book, Harry will make two best friends, Ron And Hermione, who help him to process information. His adult pal is Hagrid. He displays his curiosity and conviction that his own perceptions have to be right. The trio is convinced that Snape is the enemy in spite of everything Hagrid has to say to the contrary. He has an adventuresome spirit, ready to take on the protection of the stone for DD and to fly a broom as Seeker for Gryffindor when singled out by Professor McGonagall. He just happened to be going after Draco to get Neville's Remembrall for him. In doing this, without thinking about the fact that he had never been on a broom before, Harry displays his fervent concern for the weak.(Neville was on his way to the Hospital Wing with a broken wrist.) and his daring courage. He does believe in himself when he sees that he can do something. His self concept will change rapidly in this book as he goes full steam ahead into this world of magic. I picked up some imagery based on the clues offered. Looking back at what would have been the barrier between platforms 9 and 10, Harry saw a black wrought iron gate that said Platform nine and three quarters. Harry has passed into the magical world through an iron gate which is []black[/b]. Matters of friendship, loyalties and opinions are settled on the train. The train arrives at Hogsmeade in the dark. There is more water. The first years cross the lake(more water) in boats guided by Hagrid. Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Neville are together in one boat. It seems very significant now. They enter the castle from a hidden underground harbor. They is great depth to Hogwarts to balance out the highly visible towers and turrets. I assume that the nighttime arrival symbolizes the black stage. The fact that Scabbers attacked the dark trio when they were in Harry's and Ron's compartment is striking. It is so uncharacteristic of Wormtail, but I have no idea what it means except that the boys were meant to be divided as they were. Wormtail has plans of his own. I'm not doing very well with the symbols this time. Of course Knights wielding swords is Ron in the chess game fighting so that Harry will move on to the next task. Mars is warlike, principled and rational, a good problem solver. Could this be the trio itself? When all three work together, they are capable of all this. There is an active strength here. -------------------- |
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Jun 8 2008, 12:06 AM
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#22
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Hitchhiker's Guide of Harry's Alchemical Journeys Posts: 2,882 Joined: 9:08pm March 20, 2006 Location: In the Alchemy Lab |
This is a long one but I finally had time to come in and really speak to your posts!
You all are doing very well. Please, any of you that are lurking, come join in! The more thoughts we have in the pot the more discussion we will have and the better we will understand this very interesting subject! First of all merrythought, your observations about the Hero’s journey and Hagrid are very helpful. He certainly seems to fit the Heralding part. I also think that Hagrid acts under Dumbledore’s direction, like a ‘lab assistant’. Hagrid doesn’t totally understand what he is doing for Dumbledore, but he carries out the orders to a ‘T’. (Such as the ‘job’ he does of getting the tiny package from Vault 713. A better example would be the attitude he has about Snape. Hagrid, or the other staff for that matter, is unaware of why Dumbledore trusts Snape, but Hagrid is quick to spout off that he too trusts Snape and that he can’t be trying to get the Stone or hurt Harry.) I just thought of another thing.  Hagrid’s title is Keeper of the Keys, very much like a lab assistant would be! The keeper of the keys in a lab has the keys to all the cupboards (even this one?) so that he can set up the elements and material for the experiments before the Alchemist arrives to direct and complete the operations. I hope that this all helps you Granjo Granger in understanding the role Hagrid plays in light of Alchemy.As for your enlightening post Granjo, you are beginning to see the background that is alchemy in JKR's story! You have indeed touched on many of the things that happen within the 8th and 9th chapters of the book, so you are ahead of the game! (Oops hope I didn't give away the answer to the first question  ). You mentioned the blood status thing and Draco Malfoy. Two waring factors in Harry's new world. Both of these things need to have some clarity before Harry can make a decision as to what he feel on the subjects. It's necessary for Harry to have all this conflict about him at this time, in order for these warring (Yep, you got it right again Granjo! Mars, the God of War) forces to come up into Harry's consciousness so that he can decide which is worthy to keep for the continued process of purification. That which is not worthy of keeping is chucked out. You've done a good job of huinting out the symbolism that JKR has dotted throughout these chapters! Keep it coming!!!******************************************************************************** So, I would like now to move along and speak to Separation and what Harry needs to separate before he can continue on his journey. First of all there must be a separation from his old life: Harry gets on a train and it takes him far away from all that he had known. That’s the beginning of separation (also of the Hero's journey, I believe!). Harry finds that what is in his ‘petri dish’ are the ashes from Calcination and Dissolution which are opposing forces: Muggle world vs. Wizarding world; unloving family vs. loving friends; poor vs. rich; unknown person vs. famous person; earth bound Muggle vs. airborne wizard and so forth. These forces are opposite and therefore are fighting for his attention, i.e., the forces are fighting for their territory within Harry. What Harry has to do during this operation is to clarify and distill out by filtration, settling, decomposing or agitating with air the unworthy parts of these forces. The Separation operation makes Harry become aware of these opposing forces and isolate them out from his ego. He has to look at them honestly and realize - that which needs to be abandoned - and what needs to be salvaged. In order to keep pure that which is going on into the next step, he has to remove the ‘good stuff’ from the ‘contaminating stuff’. Now I think you can see from this description that Harry only is able to partially do this in PS/SS. That’s why he repeats this step nearly every year, until he totally can separate out of himself that which needs to go (Heh,heh- the Dursleys in DH!) in order for him to come to the point that he is able to sacrifice himself in that volume. **************************************************************************** OK, onto my favorite image of separation in Chapters 5, 6 & 7. It’s got to be when Harry gets on that broom for the first time. How liberating is that? Harry finds a whole different part of himself that he never knew! What a revelation that was! Of course, this doesn’t last long as the earth (Minerva) calls him back to the ground. You can see him struggle with what he has just found out. He is sure that he will be severely punished for this revelation, either by expulsion or a caning, but instead he is rewarded (opposing forces pulling on him). Hermione reminds him again of this when she admonishes him for being rewarded for breaking the rules. However when Harry gets to fly with Wood during his first lesson on Quidditch, the urge to separate from the earth and the things that are holding him back are too great. He decides that this is where he wants to be … above the earth, above the bad – taking the high road – at Hogwarts. He separates that part of him that is earth bound and keeps the part of him that wants to fly. Notice that air plays a big part in this operation. Air, in the form of breath, is what modulates this operation in people. (All that breathing stuff in Yoga is for a reason!) Breath is associate with spiritual energy and the divine will. Once we free ourselves from blocked up energy, that energy is free to flow again. And where does it flow (?) but upwards towards the next operation! Ooh nice segue, HealerOne! Here are the questions for this week! Week Four: 12. What stage is Harry in during the chapters for this week? (Chapters 8 & 9) 13. What imagery or symbols stand out in these chapters as being alchemical? 14. Describe the changes you have seen in Harry during these first few months at Hogwarts? Come on now my dear Lurkers! Don't be afraid to jump into the fray! Post any question or thought. In the meantime, separate out the noble parts of you from the benign! -------------------- Sorting begins soon for HBP!  Follow the Lily and Stag on twitter, too! Thanks twiddlethosedials for the Siggy! |
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Jun 8 2008, 02:12 PM
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#23
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Official Grandmother at the Lily and Stag Inn Posts: 2,728 Joined: 4:33pm February 27, 2007 Location: Having tea with Minerva McGonagall at Hogwarts |
This week, Harry is experiencing a lot of separation. In this most recent reread of chapter eight, I noticed that the castle itself is designed to promote flexibility and the acceptance of things and experiences that are different. The staircases move with no warning. There are trick steps. Doors have to be opened in different ways. Suits of armor move. people leave their portraits for their own reasons. There are many ghosts and one very annoying poltergeist as well as a caretaker with a foul personality and a strange cat. There is even more expansion in the ways that the teachers can be different. Binns is a ghost, Flitwick, head of Ravenclaw, is tiny but brilliant. He stands on a pile of books in order to see his class. Sprout is cheerful and earthy, just what one would want for a gardener and to head Hufflepuff House. Astronomy is taught at midnight at the top of a tower. It balances nicely with Herbology, the care of magical plants. McGonagall, the transfiguration teacher, is strong, firm and fair, an ideal teacher.Snape, head of Slytherin and potions master is everyone's worst nightmare. His favorite student is Draco Malfoy. All of the other Slytherins are next in his favor. The Gryffindors all get picked on, but he singles out Harry for major abuse, even blaming him for Neville's mistake that resulted in the destruction of Seamus' cauldron and injury to Neville.This environment may not be water, but it does force Harry to become more alert and to expect the unexpected. One might say that it shakes him up so that some of the impurities begin to loosen and fall off. Fame can be both good and bad. Classes can be interesting or dull. Teacher can be good or bad. Shape teaches the alteration of substance by combing different ingredients in different ways. McGonagall classes concern the transformation for living thins into objects as well as objects into other objects, and back again. Experiencing all of this will have Harry quite shaken up, primed for change. Then there is Hagrid, Harry's friend, whose hospitality embraces Ron too.
The final class is flying with Madam Hooch, and again the Gryffindors and the Slytherins are all together. There are twenty brooms waiting for all of them. The Hogwarts classes must be very small. Neville, who is terrified of flying, accidentally starts too soon, cannot control his broom, and falls off breaking his wrist and loosing his remembrall. As soon as Madam Hooch leaves with Neville to go to the hospital wing, Malfoy picks up the little ball and takes off on his broom immediately followed by Potter, who is a natural at flying. Having met his match, Malfoy tosses away the remembrall, which Potter catches just before it hits the ground. Before he can catch his breath, Harry hears McGonagall call for him to come with her admonishing him for taking such a risk. Once inside the castle, they walk in silence, Harry imagining all sorts of punishments only to be introduced to Oliver Wood, the Captain of the Gryffindor Quidditch Team. Harry is the new seeker. That night after dinner, Malfoy goads Harry into agreeing to a wizard's duel at midnight with Ron agreeing to be Harry's second before Harry has figured out what is going on. When the boys head for the trophy room at midnight they wind up having Hermione and Neville in tow. The duel is a set up. Malfoy doesn't show, and the four of them barely escape accidentally winding up in the forbidden corridor with the three headed dog. They escape from Fluffy and then have Peeves to contend with. He taunts them, but then stalls Filch long enough to let them get away and back to Gryffindor Tower and safety. While they are catching their collective breaths, Hermione tells them that the dog is guarding a trap door. Harry now knows where the stone is hidden. These two chapters are filled with constant action and change. Nothing is quite what it seems. In order to cope Harry has to be open to whatever comes along. His self esteem get a huge boost when he realizes just how good he is at flying. He sheds quite a bit of self doubt during the [/b]separation[/b] process. He also learns to separate his friends from his enemies. He learns what to expect from his teachers and accepts Hermione and Neville as friends. Neville may not be an asset, but he is still a friend. He means well. Harry and Ron have to know that without Hermione they would have been in serious trouble. Hermione is a major asset. It is as though Harry is in a huge Jar being shaken up very hard, and to stay alive, he must make instant choices. He is being tested. To remain balanced, he must make good choices. With every choice, he sparates something out or into himself. -------------------- |
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Jun 13 2008, 08:57 PM
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#24
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Newest Housekeeper at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 736 Joined: 4:41pm September 14, 2006 Location: looking for lost braincells in the L&S Broom Closet |
I thought I'd come back to separation symbolism....
QUOTE(HealerOne @ May 31 2008, 11:34 PM)  Just to help you out to figure out separation - the third operation ... here are some of the images connected with it: Mars, iron, 2 white birds ascending into the heaven from the black earth (signifying the ashes from both calcination and dissolution from the blackness of the primia material), the spirit rising, winds, filters, piles of sand (to filter liquids), knights wielding swords, the caduceus as a weapon, divorce, dismemberment, surgery, splitting of the Red Sea, breaking apart of Heaven and Earth, dividing, cutting or breaking down of substances. knights wielding swords - The duel that never came to pass seems a reflection of this alchemical image. Harry and Draco are like two knights in a medieval tale who, representing opposing forces, become locked in battle with one another. Harry and Draco really are presented as opposites, aren't they? One dark, one blond; one neglected, the other pampered; one open-hearted, the other close and cunning. Although this particular duel never gets off the ground, Harry and Draco engage in battle again and again as the series goes on. breaking down of substances - I'm wondering if the first potion lesson fits in here. The various ingredients must break down when they meet and mingle, forming potion. Hmm...Snape attempts to "break down" the "substance" of his students in that first class, doesn't he? He implies they will prove themselves to be "dunderheads." He does specifically go for Harry, attempting to prove this "celebrity" is dissappointingly mediocre. Fortunately Harry is made of tougher stuff; although he is not completely impervious to Snapesnark, he's got enough spunk to not buy into it. This post has been edited by merrythought: Jun 13 2008, 08:57 PM -------------------- Summer's lease hath all too short a date... |
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Jun 14 2008, 04:42 PM
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#25
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Hitchhiker's Guide of Harry's Alchemical Journeys Posts: 2,882 Joined: 9:08pm March 20, 2006 Location: In the Alchemy Lab |
QUOTE(Granjo Granger @ Jun 8 2008, 03:12 PM) These two chapters are filled with constant action and change. Nothing is quite what it seems. In order to cope Harry has to be open to whatever comes along. His self esteem get a huge boost when he realizes just how good he is at flying. He sheds quite a bit of self doubt during the [/b]separation[/b] process. He also learns to separate his friends from his enemies. He learns what to expect from his teachers and accepts Hermione and Neville as friends. Neville may not be an asset, but he is still a friend. He means well. Harry and Ron have to know that without Hermione they would have been in serious trouble. Hermione is a major asset. It is as though Harry is in a huge Jar being shaken up very hard, and to stay alive, he must make instant choices. He is being tested. To remain balanced, he must make good choices. With every choice, he sparates something out or into himself. Great Job Granjo! I love the idea of Harry being shaken up in a jar - a great use of air as the element that is being used to agitate him! Chapter 8 is full of all these hints of separating out of people and things. Harry being singled out with whispers and pointing; figuring out which resident of Hogwarts is good and bad, helpful or not - such as the ghosts, Peeves, Filch, and; of course the teachers are in that category also. I loved how you mentioned that Hogwarts itself with it's changing, shape-shifting and tricks in it's actual infrastructure has to be sorted out - what is the best way, the fastest way the right way to traverse it's many passages. Then there are ideas that have to be separated and judged: "Magic isn't just wand waving"... The Muggle way of thinking about Magic vs the reality of having to really study and understand the 'subtle' techniques involved. Of course we talked about Chapter nine and the wonderful use of flying as separation of earth and air. But also Nevillle is separated from his Remembrall and Malfoy is separated from his body guards Crabbe and Goyle. Then when Minerva brings Harry crashing back to reality, Harry is again separated out from the rest of the first years to go off on his own path, one which is orchestrated by Minerva and Wood (both -to me- symbols of earth). As you can see some of this separation is to take away from Harry's life that which is no longer true or needed and is contaminating his life. On the other hand, some of the separation serves to help Harry find the true path and that which is more pure. QUOTE(merrythought @ Jun 13 2008, 09:57 PM) I thought I'd come back to separation symbolism.... knights wielding swords - The duel that never came to pass seems a reflection of this alchemical image. Harry and Draco are like two knights in a medieval tale who, representing opposing forces, become locked in battle with one another. Harry and Draco really are presented as opposites, aren't they? One dark, one blond; one neglected, the other pampered; one open-hearted, the other close and cunning. Although this particular duel never gets off the ground, Harry and Draco engage in battle again and again as the series goes on. breaking down of substances - I'm wondering if the first potion lesson fits in here. The various ingredients must break down when they meet and mingle, forming potion. Hmm...Snape attempts to "break down" the "substance" of his students in that first class, doesn't he? He implies they will prove themselves to be "dunderheads." He does specifically go for Harry, attempting to prove this "celebrity" is dissappointingly mediocre. Fortunately Harry is made of tougher stuff; although he is not completely impervious to Snapesnark, he's got enough spunk to not buy into it. Oh merrythought, that's wonderful that Draco and Harry could be thought of as the 'Knights wielding swords'! Good catch! And the breaking down of substances does go along with potions. I love that you noticed Harry is being broken down by Snape with his acid tongue! To me it's amazing that Harry isn't crushed by Snape's seemingly 'out of the blue' hatred of him. But as some have said other places, Harry has been used to being treated like this by the Dursleys, so he has developed a thick skin. None the less, it seems so cruel that this teacher should be picking on him for no good reason... A couple of other things that stood out to me as indicating that Harry was still in the Separation operation is that Potions class is held in the dungeons which is in The Below. The cold space with the cold teacher directly opposite of the fire/hot elements that we saw in the earlier chapters. - the underground where all this work of purifying the prima material starts. Speaking of which, did you notice that Neville's cauldron is melted into a twisted blob? - This to me, is indicating that we are seeing Fire working on the leaden mass to further melt it and make it into ashes. Whether JKR is indicating that Neville, too is being transformed is debatable. What do you think? Could there be more than one person taking the alchemical journey here? ******************************************************************************* Okey dokey, we are now going to be moving on to the next chapters - 10 and 11 this week. [Ginger< I hope we are finally going to address your concerns about Conjunction - the fourth operation!] Here's the questions: Week Five: 17. At what point do you feel the fourth operation of Conjunction begins? 18. What symbols do you recognize as being representative of Conjunction? 19. Why is the melding of the Trio an important step in Harry’s Alchemical Journey? To give you some hints these are some of the symbols and images that are connected with the operation of Conjunction: opposite elements are reunited, Copper, Venus, fruitful earth, rams, double chambered furnaces, glue or tape binding opposing entities, two streams coming together into one, double-faced people (Janus), people wearing crowns, reconciliation of the King and Queen, the ladder of the planets, 7 stars in an upward incline, 7 colored rainbows, a bird chained to the earth. Conjunction is the operation that produces the Lesser Work or the Lesser Stone. It is a forced marriage of the feminine and masculine parts of the person (or conscious and unconscious mind). A new substance is formed but it is an alloy, not as pure as the Greater Work will be, however the result is such that a new belief system is born which allows for lasting enlightenment. Some Alchemists thought of this new belief system as not the Spirit's intelligence which is of the future - or striving for the betterment and not of the Soul's intelligence which is of the now - of the reality of things; but of the intelligence of the heart which is much more intuitive in nature than either the Spirit (mind) or the Soul (body). The goal of Conjunction is to let the mind become in Harmony with the work. Ok now that I have given you all these hints ... go at it and see if you can answer this weeks questions! Please dear lurkers ... don't be afraid to come out and chime in. There are no right or wrong answers here. This is a discussion, we are all finding our way .... Come join us! This post has been edited by HealerOne: Jun 14 2008, 07:48 PM -------------------- Sorting begins soon for HBP! Follow the Lily and Stag on twitter, too! Thanks twiddlethosedials for the Siggy! |
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Jun 15 2008, 11:12 AM
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#26
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Smart Cookie  Posts: 3,111 Joined: 1:26am September 30, 2006 Location: Somewhere in time and space  |
Phew! That was some erm Alchemical reading. And it's all so fascinating! I think, it's hopeless for me to try to weigh in on all the questions I missed, so, I think, I'll jump right ahead to the new ones.
 Before I do so, however, I'd like to address just one point (since I can't let a question concerning Dumbledore pass  )QUOTE(HealerOne @ May 27 2008, 09:56 PM) 6. The one thing which I always had trouble with (before DH) was how Dumbledore stood outside the action and watched Harry get into terrible trouble and didn't interfere. That made me crazy to think a teacher and a responsible adult like this great wizard would be putting this child in danger, on purpose! Even though Hagrid is more readily seen in this book, it's clear to me that Dumbledore was calling the shots, as to how much Harry was exposed to, in order for him to be ready if Voldemort should show up to mess with him. Hagrid actually interacts in this process, while Dumbledore just sets the 'experiment up' and observes Harry's reaction to the experiment. He only intercedes when Harry is in mortal danger. I do consider Dumbledore the Alchemist and Harry the Primia Material, but because what Dumbleore is experimenting with is a person, I am beginning to believe that Harry becomes the apprentice of Dumbledore as the process continues. Anyone else want to weigh in on that? All right, first, forgive me, but a remark by Doctor House immediately comes to my mind And I'm paraphrasing, of course: What do you do when you want to see how two chemicals interact? You put them together and apply heat. - I take that to mean, that once you done so, you don't do anything else, but watch what happens. Which of course, works rather well with chemicals, but probably not so good with people, especially when it's actually a 11-year-old boy who is put in danger. However, I think, that it was the best way it could be done - I mean, that Dumbledore had to leave Harry alone for the most part to interact with the other chemicals and only interfere when an explosion was about to happen (that is when Harry was in mortal danger), in order to achieve the Alchemical goal. I don't like this much, and I think, Dumbledore didn't like it either, but I think it was the best possible way.And I actually can't see that Harry is becoming the Alchemist's Apprentice that early on. I think, it happens when he starts interacting with the Alchemist (Dumbledore) more, which only happens in the end of OotP and then is happening all throughout HBP, 'cause only when he becomes really aware of what's happening and then it's his choice how he'll react with the other chemicals from now on - a phrase from HBP comes to mind (paraphrasing again), it's like the difference between being dragged to the battle and entering the battle with your head held high. All right, so, onto the new Alchemical phase - Conjunction, is it? (they can't think of more complicated words, can they?  )All right, so, if I get this one right - it's about mixing the stuff that was previously separated into parts together again? (why to separate it in the first place then?  - sorry, couldn't resist - I know, it's all important and such) And the result is something not quite the Philosopher's Stone yet, but something that erm gives you some knowledge or something like that?Reading the hints you provided, HealerOne, I almost squeed when I read about the "forced marriage", because I immediately thought - but that's Ron and Hermione! Or at this point it's more like, the boys and Hermione. Because the troll "forces" them to become friends, doesn't it? And I think, to a certain extent some knowledge (that's like enlightement, right?) comes to the boys lives with her - I mean, they get to know the right answers to homework questions from her. Another thing that made me smile is "glue or tape binding opposing entities" - that sounds a bit like troll bogeys to me, which is described like lumpy grey glue. And actually, that whole troll fighting scene really seems like a reaction to me during which, well, something is combined from separate parts, that is, the Trio is combined from Harry & Ron and Hermione. I first note that troll emits a very strong and unpleasant smell. And smell often shows that a reaction is taking place. Also, I find it interesting that at first Ron and Harry lock Hermione in the same room with troll and afterwards have to come to her rescue - it's as though the chemicals put themselves into a test-tube or something. Another thing that catches my attention is this remark: It was the last thing they wanted to do, but what choice did they have? (page 129 of my Bloomsbury edition paperback). Another indication that this is going to be a forced marriage? It's been a short while since I took chemistry, and I remember that there's something about how before a reaction can take place a certain temperature (level of energy) has to be reached. And that much less energy is needed when there's a catalyst to help the reaction. Couldn't the troll be the catalyst in this little reaction? I mean, it's not like that hit on the head is going to change it in any way, is it? And didn't Jo also say that the Trio needed something happening to them, so that they could become friends? It's like they themselves couldn't reach the "temperature" they needed so that they could combine the Trio. So, our three chemicals interact with the catalyst to form one compound. They boys fight the troll and Hermione gets them out of trouble with McGonagall - they all work towards one goal (e.i. to form one compound). Second phew! I hope, this makes sense. This post has been edited by Mary Wanguard: Jun 15 2008, 11:16 AM -------------------- I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine. (P&P)
Images from hallonpaj, phistolemon_, alata_elentari @LJ.   |
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Jun 15 2008, 04:02 PM
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#27
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Official Grandmother at the Lily and Stag Inn Posts: 2,728 Joined: 4:33pm February 27, 2007 Location: Having tea with Minerva McGonagall at Hogwarts |
Both Chapters 10 and 11 involve Harry's becoming a part of a different whole. In chapter 10 he Ron and Hermione combine to form the trio, an entity that can accomplish a lot more than any one of them could have done alone. In Chapter 11, Harry is visible as the seeker on the Gryffindor Quidditch Team. Her is a member of the team and yet is set apart. He acts alone in looking for the snitch. At the same time, he wants to catch it at a time that is optimal for his team as a whole.
Harry was an untried Quidditch playerThis chapter offers us the first attempt by Voldemort to kill him. H ad he fallen off of his broom and been killed, then Voldemort would have been able to get to the stone and that would have been the end of the story. With Snape's help by uttering counter jinxes and Hermione's unwitting help in knocking Quirrell over while she was working her way to set Snape's robes on fire, Harry is able to regain control of the broom in time to catch the snitch in his mouth. In his mouth is a throw away line especially in the first Quidditch game. It becomes a critical piece of information in DH when Scrigeour is trying to find out what is so special about the snitch that Harry caught in his first quidditch match. He appears to cooperate when he takes the snitch in his hand. The snitch does not recognize his his hand. It would have recognized his mouth. He will be reunited with it at a time when it matters. Harry plays well on a team. He has never been one to seek attention. He cares about the whole. He is learning skills that will help him later on as the trsts become more difficult. We also see the trio at work in this chapter. Ron and Hermione believe that Harry needs their help. They are probably right considering that Snape had not succeeded instopping Quirrell from controling Harry's broom. Hermione's jar of magical blue flames enter the story in this chapter. They are used to warm the students in the cold courtyard on break and again to set Snape's robes on fire during Quidditch. In DH they will be the only safe source of heat during the long winter of camping in one place after another. Blue is a very high spiritual color. It is usually associated with cold but is actually a higher temperature in fires that the "hot" colors. Things are not always what they seem. This warmth will contribut to survival in DH. In PS/SS, they symbolize the warmth of friendship. -------------------- |
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Jun 19 2008, 11:31 PM
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#28
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Hitchhiker's Guide of Harry's Alchemical Journeys Posts: 2,882 Joined: 9:08pm March 20, 2006 Location: In the Alchemy Lab |
QUOTE(Mary Wanguard @ Jun 15 2008, 11:12 AM) It's been a short while since I took chemistry, and I remember that there's something about how before a reaction can take place a certain temperature (level of energy) has to be reached. And that much less energy is needed when there's a catalyst to help the reaction. Couldn't the troll be the catalyst in this little reaction? I mean, it's not like that hit on the head is going to change it in any way, is it? And didn't Jo also say that the Trio needed something happening to them, so that they could become friends? It's like they themselves couldn't reach the "temperature" they needed so that they could combine the Trio. So, our three chemicals interact with the catalyst to form one compound. They boys fight the troll and Hermione gets them out of trouble with McGonagall - they all work towards one goal (e.i. to form one compound). I really like the idea of the Troll being the catalyst. In a chemical reaction the catalyst is not changed, so I'm not sure we can really say that the Troll is a catalyst as he is changed from being animated to being unconscious! However I also like your point that the Troll is shut up with Hermione similar to chemicals being poured into a vial together, then Ron and Harry jump in too. Everything is shaken up and 'voila!' - a new substance is formed -The Trio! This is when the operation of Conjunction truly occurs. QUOTE(Granjo Granger @ Jun 15 2008, 04:02 PM) Hermione's jar of magical blue flames enter the story in this chapter. They are used to warm the students in the cold courtyard on break and again to set Snape's robes on fire during Quidditch. In DH they will be the only safe source of heat during the long winter of camping in one place after another. Blue is a very high spiritual color. It is usually associated with cold but is actually a higher temperature in fires that the "hot" colors. Things are not always what they seem. This warmth will contribut to survival in DH. In PS/SS, they symbolize the warmth of friendship. Oh my, sometimes I am so blind to things! I am so glad you brought this up! The Alchemists had 4 grades or types of fire. The first being Elemental Fire - that's the common fire that we know, yellow and orange in color, it burns, digests and consumes, it's smelly. It produces nothing else but heat .. and of course those ashes we talked about! The second type of fire was Central Fire, and that is the creation fire that is within matter and all beings - in the center. It is digesting and maturing but neither warm nor burning to the touch. This fire is invisible. The highest fire is Celestial Fire. It's brilliantly white and comes from the creator - it represents the power of divine will. It's very pure and simple. It shines without burning and is without color and odor. Then there is the very rare fourth grade of fire. It's called the Secret Fire. This fire has direction and behaves like an arrow or a sword. It's known to be in higher quantities in animals than plants. It's described as being "electric, fiery, (a) hidden power, an electro-spiritual force and (a) creative power." (D. Hauck) This fire is equated with the actual life force, the basic animating energy - the inner divine spark that makes all things come alive. In the case of Hermione's 'blue fire' it sounds a lot to me like the Central Fire . Hers is blue but that maybe because she has not learned to control it as well as most Alchemist can do, or she just hasn't upped the temperature enough to get it to the point of being invisible! Hermione uses her fire both to warm and to separate (The Devil's Snare from the boys). Most interesting! I think that the melding of the Trio is absolutely crucial to the whole septology. The three parts of the Triad must come together: Spirit, Mind and Body; Sulfur, Mercury and Salt; or feelings, thoughts and body - all examples of the mix of three. In this case, Hermione is the thoughts or mind part: Ron is the Sulfur or feelings part; and Harry is the Salt or body part of the Trio. Around this solid Trio the story revolves, just as the plot of the story evolves around the other trio of Dumbledore, Snape and Voldemort. I'll have some new questions soon, but feel free to post any insights you have discovered!
-------------------- Sorting begins soon for HBP! Follow the Lily and Stag on twitter, too! Thanks twiddlethosedials for the Siggy! |
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Jun 21 2008, 07:15 AM
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#29
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Smart Cookie Posts: 3,111 Joined: 1:26am September 30, 2006 Location: Somewhere in time and space |
QUOTE(HealerOne @ Jun 19 2008, 11:31 PM) I really like the idea of the Troll being the catalyst. In a chemical reaction the catalyst is not changed, so I'm not sure we can really say that the Troll is a catalyst as he is changed from being animated to being unconscious! Well, yes, the troll does, well, change. What I meant is that hit on the head (the reaction) won't have any lasting effects on it - like, once he wakes (I don't suppose they're going to kill him... are they?), nothing in him will have changed and he'll be able, well, wander around again, attacking at random. Because, well, in chemical reactions catalysts usually do change their form while the reaction is taking place, so that they're able to bind to the reactants and "glue" them together, but once the reaction is over, the catalyst releases the newly formed compound and changes back into the pre-reaction form. Do you know what I mean?QUOTE(HealerOne) The highest fire is Celestial Fire. It's brilliantly white and comes from the creator - it represents the power of divine will. It's very pure and simple. It shines without burning and is without color and odor. All right, this just might be me, but when I read the above I immediately thought about... Dumbledore In Chapter The Sorting Hat, his silver hair is described as the only thing that shone as brightly as the ghosts. Ghosts, even though they didn't leave this world fully, are still kind of part of the other world (where the creator also lives), too. And Dumbledore, just as Harry sees him, is compared to the ghosts. Dumbledore certainly has power. And, knowing what we now know, it was him who, well, *organized* almost *everything*. On the other hand, now we also know that Dumbledore wasn't exactly pure the whole time, but after he saw that his *first* conception of the Greater Good wasn't, well, good, I believe, he really changed. His *master plans* about Harry and bringing the downfall of Voldemort certainly weren't simple. But ultimately, I think, what was *driving* Dumbledore was love - the purest and simplest (or most complicated - depends how you look at it) things of all. So, yeah, it just might be me, but this Celestial Fire thing really reminds me of Dumbledore  QUOTE(Granjo Granger) Harry plays well on a team. He has never been one to seek attention. He cares about the whole. Hm... interestingly, this made me think a lot. And I actually think it somehow might be connected to one of HealerOne's questions: Why is the melding of the Trio an important step in Harry’s Alchemical Journey? Well, without Hermione, Harry and Ron's *team* was somehow incomplete, not whole, right? - that whole Alchemical thing about Body, Mind and Spirit that HealerOne speaks about. And I think, Harry needs to be *whole* to be able to... erm... do his journey. He needs the balance that Hermione provides - both he and Ron are kind of reckless, not-considering-too-much types, and Hermione brings in that voice of reason to their lives (I think, there's actually a part in one of the books where Harry sort of hears Hermione in him, like a little voice of reason). Thus, it is very important that the Trio is formed.
-------------------- I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine. (P&P)
Images from hallonpaj, phistolemon_, alata_elentari @LJ. |
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Jun 21 2008, 10:43 PM
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#30
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Hitchhiker's Guide of Harry's Alchemical Journeys Posts: 2,882 Joined: 9:08pm March 20, 2006 Location: In the Alchemy Lab |
QUOTE(Mary Wanguard @ Jun 21 2008, 08:15 AM) QUOTE(HealerOne @ Jun 19 2008, 11:31 PM) I really like the idea of the Troll being the catalyst. In a chemical reaction the catalyst is not changed, so I'm not sure we can really say that the Troll is a catalyst as he is changed from being animated to being unconscious! Well, yes, the troll does, well, change. What I meant is that hit on the head (the reaction) won't have any lasting effects on it - like, once he wakes (I don't suppose they're going to kill him... are they?), nothing in him will have changed and he'll be able, well, wander around again, attacking at random. Because, well, in chemical reactions catalysts usually do change their form while the reaction is taking place, so that they're able to bind to the reactants and "glue" them together, but once the reaction is over, the catalyst releases the newly formed compound and changes back into the pre-reaction form. Do you know what I mean?Mary W, thanks for your insight into a catalyst! (I must admit it's been too many years since I sat through chem class, so your help was much needed!) So the Troll could very well be a catalyst in this instance. I knew when I posted that I wanted to say something more! And that was that the Girl's bathroom was like a crucible - it became the vessel in which all the ingredients for conjunction were placed. The Troll with its wooden club swatting all about, mixed the ingredients into a frenzy, until Ron and Harry acted to make the whole reaction cause a change - with a new end product -the Trio. QUOTE(Mary Wanguard @ Jun 21 2008, 08:15 AM) QUOTE(HealerOne) The highest fire is Celestial Fire. It's brilliantly white and comes from the creator - it represents the power of divine will. It's very pure and simple. It shines without burning and is without color and odor. All right, this just might be me, but when I read the above I immediately thought about... Dumbledore In Chapter The Sorting Hat, his silver hair is described as the only thing that shone as brightly as the ghosts. med.Oh that's brilliant! I love that Dumbledore is rightly described with a beard that shines brightly. I think this is referring to the fact that Dumbledore has gone through the process of become a Master Alchemist. Remember that the whole process of Alchemy is repeated over and over, Dumbledore has achieved the highest level but that doesn't mean he can't fall backwards at some point and make mistakes. ____________________________________________________________________________ Well I guess I should speak a bit more about the operation of Conjunction. According to D Hauck in Sorcerer's Stone: A Beginner's Guide to Alchemy Conjunction is the crucial operation of Alchemy. It is where the majority of flops occurred. When a new product did not occur or wasn't stable, the whole experiment was thrown out and the Alchemist would have to start anew. As the operation draws towards it's completion, the 'spirit descends into the lowest levels of human consciousness, so at this stage of the Work, the Spirit appears submerged in the body and as if extinguished in it." (Titus Burckhadt) In some texts it is explained by the metaphor that "the sun swallows up the moon" indicating that enlightenment takes place in the very dark shadows of the mind. Also known as the uniting of the elements of Fire (sun) and Water (Luna or Moon). Once the operation is complete one's "personality has created a feeling of deep integrity and confidence" (D. Hauck) Integrity being the adherence to moral and ethical principles. The new product that is made is often called the "Child of conjunction". Oh and if I hadn't mentioned it before, dragons are an often used image in Conjunction  . They are often seen as dueling or intertwined with one head seeking the moon and the other seeking the sun. Just thought you should know that ....Here are some new questions that may seem difficult to answer, but if you have been paying attention, I think you can take a shot at it! (Remember there are no wrong answers with Alchemy! Just different ways of looking at things! So jump in and add to the discussion!) Week Six: 20. Which operation do you think Harry and company is experiencing in Chapter 12, in Chapter 13? 21. Why are the 12th and 13th chapters often the most important chapters in JKR’s books? 22. What symbols can you identify in these chapters as relating to Alchemy? -------------------- Sorting begins soon for HBP! Follow the Lily and Stag on twitter, too! Thanks twiddlethosedials for the Siggy! |
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