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Leaky Lounge > HP-Related Discussion: Diagon Alley > Leaky Sites: Cauldron's Corner > Special Event Archives > Book Club: The Golden Compass/Northern Lights

 
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Truth and Lies, A look at trust and betrayal.
Pyxis
post Mar 13 2008, 11:53 PM
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"No, no, that's the saddest thing: she will be the betrayer, and the experience will be terrible."


These haunting words are found at the beginning of The Golden Compass; not only do they foreshadow an experience for Lyra, but they illustrate betrayal as a central theme to the series. Our instinct as readers is to label the "good guys" and the "bad guys", but I found that to be a very difficult thing with Compass, as my impression of those who had Lyra's best interests at heart was constantly and gradually shifting.

True betrayal is when someone you trust has lied to you, and it involves powerful emotions like anger, hate, guilt...and sometimes, love. As a child, Lyra is dependent upon the adults around her to protect her. She seems to trust her father, and despise her mother; and is ambiguous towards the Master and Scholars that raised her. Did the way she was raised influence the fact that she trusted her father and not her mother? Did her father deserve that trust?

How important is trust for Lyra? Is she so independent that she doesn't need to rely on any one person's guidance?

Which characters in this book are trustworthy, and why? Did that change as you read further into the book?

What examples of betrayal do you find in The Golden Compass, and what are the motivations? What effect did the act of betrayal have on both the betrayer and the betrayed?

This post has been edited by Pyxis: Mar 19 2008, 09:30 PM
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sherman
post Mar 22 2008, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE(Pyxis @ Mar 13 2008, 11:53 PM) *
Which characters in this book are trustworthy, and why? Did that change as you read further into the book?
I think that Iorek is very trustworthy. He is honest with Lyra, and seems to love her very deeply. I also think that Lee and Serafina are trustworthy. One character who I thought was trustworthy was Lord Asriel...but as I read more, he seemed much less so. Especially near the end with his reaction to see Lyra turn up at his place in Svalbard.

QUOTE(Pyxis @ Mar 13 2008, 11:53 PM) *
What examples of betrayal do you find in The Golden Compass, and what are the motivations? What effect did the act of betrayal have on both the betrayer and the betrayed?
I think of Lyra taking Roger to Lord Asriel's is an act of betrayl, but it's not her fault because she doesn't know that is going to happen.....so would that make it a betrayl? unsure.gif


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hedwig2323
post Mar 23 2008, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE(Pyxis @ Mar 13 2008, 10:53 PM) *
Did the way she was raised influence the fact that she trusted her father and not her mother? Did her father deserve that trust?


I think her mother's behavior had more to do with her distrust of her than the way she was raised at Jordan, and I think Lord Asriel did deserve her trust a little more than Mrs. Coulter did. He may have been dishonest about his true identity, but he did at least check up on her periodically and he was the one responsible for finding her a place at Jordan College. In more than a decade, Mrs. Coulter never visited her even under a false identity, and when she finally did show up she did nothing but manipulate Lyra and try to trick her into serving her own agenda.


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L.J
post Apr 12 2008, 11:21 PM
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QUOTE(sherman @ Mar 22 2008, 06:46 PM) *
I think that Iorek is very trustworthy. He is honest with Lyra, and seems to love her very deeply. I also think that Lee and Serafina are trustworthy. One character who I thought was trustworthy was Lord Asriel...but as I read more, he seemed much less so. Especially near the end with his reaction to see Lyra turn up at his place in Svalbard.


I also think Iorek is very trustworthy. The Armoured Bears are said to always keep their word, so maybe some of it is to do with that, and also because Lyra helped him to get back his armour. But I do think that he really does come to care for and love Lyra, and is therefore honest with her at all times, and protects and does things for her. I don't think it's just because he promised Lord Faa to look after her, or because she got him back his armour.

The same with Lee Scoresby. He is an hired hand, but a very trustworthy one. He wasn't paid the insurance he would usually ask if he had to fight, but he still fought regardless. He could have just flown away, but he didn't. I do think it is in his nature to be honest, as he is with Serafina Pekkala when talking about whether he will fight in the war or not, but I also think he is more honest and protective with those who he comes to care for - such as Iorek, when he saved him, and Lyra.

But I never thought Lord Asriel was. I thought he was very manipulative right from when we see him in the Retiring Room. He manipulated those there in order to secure more funding for his research and experiments, and it wasn't innocent, either. He very deliberately used that head to to draw the focus away from what he actually wanted. He lied to Lyra all through her life about their true relationship, and, when she told him that she knew, he didn't even have the decency to explain why he hadn't told her - he just says "so what?", as if it's not such a big deal. Even after this Lyra shows her trust in him, by offering him the Alethiometer, and he betrays her in the worst way possible - he causes her to betray her friend to his death! Lord Asriel is very much a man who only cares about himself, and does everything for his own gain. He does show a softer side to him with his love for Mrs Coulter, but then he is also very harsh and cold with her, too. Even after all this, though, I love his character biggrin.gif (This opinion is only based on Northern Lights. I'd love to say more, but I'll save it as it regards the later books.)

I always thought Serafina Pekkala, Lord Faa, Farder Coram and Ma Costa were trustworthy and honest, also.

Even though Lyra lies a lot, I think she is very trustworthy. She's very good at keeping secrets, as shown by her keeping the Alethiometer to herself - except for the few people she trusted and thought needed to know. She's also a very good friend, as proved by her rescuing Roger, helping restore Iorek as King of the Bears, and in later books with Will.

I think trust is very important to Lyra, and I don't think she's too independent to rely on, or accept, guidance. I do think Lyra finds it difficult to trust, but when she does she accepts, and even seeks, that persons help and guidance. We see this when she is trying to work out the Alethiometer and gets help from Farder Coram. She trusts and accepts his opinions/guidance there. She also trusts John Faa and Ma Costa (well, most of the Gyptians), and completely trusts in Iorek, and accepts his guidance, too. We also know that she trusts the Master of Jordan College, and accepts his guidance, - as she did with keeping the Alethiometer to herself - though her trust in him does take a big hit after he tries to poison Lord Asriel.

I wanted to say more, but had to go away for a bit and now can't remember what I was going to say! doh.gif


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