Voldemort's Wand |
 Jan 22 2006, 12:21 AM
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 63 Joined: 9:05pm January 21, 2006  |
If Voldemort didn't have a body after the curse rebounded on him and he was in hiding for so long, how did he get his own wand back at the rebirthing? It would mean Wormtail got it for him and kept it for this long, or that Voldemort's body just came with his own wand
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Jan 22 2006, 08:17 AM
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#2
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
i thik Wormtail took it to him when he escaped in PoA and was heading to Albania
Voldemort had his wand before he got his body back since he had already killed Bertha Jokins and the old muggle Frank Bryce and Wormtail used Voldemort's wand to kill Cedric -------------------- |
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Jan 22 2006, 11:35 AM
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#3
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Junior Dishwasher at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 606 Joined: 3:16pm September 21, 2005 Location: Shrieking in my own shack. |
It's a valid question because Wormtail spent so many years as a rat. He couldn't have carried it around with him. Would he have had time to go to Godric's Hollow and get it then store it seomwhere?
That sounds a little too gutsy for Wormtail, if you ask me. But it's a very good question. Who would have gotten the wand from Godric's Hollow? -------------------- |
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Jan 22 2006, 03:47 PM
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#4
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Firebolt-Polisher at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 1,064 Joined: 12:04pm January 15, 2006 Location: Currently on board on the Weasley-Granger long and luxurious, cruise-liner ship...  |
I just believe that when LV 'avada kedavra' backfired to him that night, the spell was SO strong that it probably destroyed his wand, thus he was forced in the future to have someone bye him - have him a new one, OR he just took another's wand.. Maybe that is the reason Olivander is missing, LV wasn;t using his wand for all those years, and thus he kidnapped Olivander to make him a new wand, made just for hmself and himself only...
--------------------  Hell isn't so bad if you get to keep an angel with you.. |
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Jan 22 2006, 04:24 PM
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#5
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 6 Joined: 11:24pm August 29, 2005 Location: Green Bay, WI |
Remember: Ollivander told Harry that he sold LV the wand in the first place. Dumbledore said that Fawkes gave "just one other feather", which is in Harry's wand. The only way that Priori Incatatem could've happened is with LV's original wand. Since LV was in no fit state to hide the wand, it had to have been Wormtail. LV would not have planned for himself "dying", as he thought he was invincible (yes, he did DIE, or at least a part of his soul). Therefore, there was no backup plan. Wormtail panicked, as he thought he was going to be associated with LV's downfall and didn't want the Death Eaters coming after him, and he knew that he had also betrayed the order, so he grabbed the wand and ran. There are theories running around about it being LV's wand that Wormtail used to blow up the street, but we would've seen some sort of echo during the priori Incatatem. In short, LV still has his old wand, and someone hid it for him in the meantime. Many think it's wormtail because we didn't see LV use his wand until Wormtail rejoined him, but LV also could not use a wand until Wormtail rejoined him as he had no body.
As for the Ollivander threory, Fawkes only gave 2 feathers and they are in Harry's and LV's original wand, and Ollivander didn't go missing until the 6th book. Priori Incatatem happened in the 4th. (P.S., there is a very good editorial on this topic on Mugglenet, in the "Underground Lake") |
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Jan 22 2006, 06:02 PM
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#6
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 63 Joined: 9:05pm January 21, 2006 |
That would make sense b/c didn't JK hint that there could have been a second person at Godric's Hollow the night that the Potter's died?
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Jan 22 2006, 08:47 PM
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#7
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Junior Dishwasher at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 606 Joined: 3:16pm September 21, 2005 Location: Shrieking in my own shack. |
Yes, there has been talk of that and she wouldn't deny it, is my recollection, but I can't put my finger on a quote to confirm it. I do think the other person would most likely have had something to do with where Voldemort's wand ended up. Wormtail became a rat for many years soon after.
And good point, hplan, that Voldemort would have to have had his original wand in the graveyard in Book 4 for the Priori Incantatem to work. It is possible though, that Voldemort had Ollivander taken so that a new wand could be made for Voldemort sometime during Book 5, so that the Priori Incantatem would not occur again. -------------------- |
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Jan 23 2006, 12:05 AM
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#8
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Daily Prophet Copy Boy/Girl Posts: 3,085 Joined: 12:21pm January 30, 2005 Location: going off to college |
I am a firm believer that wormtail was the one that hid LV's wand after he was "destroy". It makes sence because LV only regained his wand after wormtail joined him.
-------------------- Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night-Edgar Allen Poe
Proud member of SKIM |
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Jan 23 2006, 04:28 AM
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#9
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Queen of Scribbuliciousness  Posts: 2,527 Joined: 1:00am October 2, 2005 Location: Deathly Hallows is my Rochester, my Romeo, my Heathcliffe...  |
Well JK has hinted that there may have been another person present at Godric's Hollow that fateful Haloween night. This person may have been able to pick up Voldemort's wand and keep it safe for him all those years. We know that as long as Pettigrew has been with Voldemort, he has been using Voldemort's wand for, amongst others, killing Frank Bryce and Cedric Diggory, so it is well possible that Pettigrew, who after all was the Potter's secret keeper, was at Godric's Hollow when the Potters died.
However, it's probably not as straightforward as that! If you do a search for Godric's Hollow you'll find several threads completely dedicated to questions like this! --------------------  Jeeves, I am not awake. I have not had my tea and yet you bring me Fink-Nottles. |
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Jan 23 2006, 01:55 PM
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#10
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins Posts: 2,518 Joined: 2:33pm September 16, 2005 Location: I'm somewhere inside all of you |
It has also been proposed that when an animagus changes form into an animal, anything they carry (including their clothing) transforms with them. So if Wormtail had Voldemort's wand when he transformed, he would have it again when he changed back. Since he had no wand in PoA when Sirius and Lupin transformed him back into a person, I suspect that he hid it somewhere after the disaster at GH.
-------------------- "Harry now saw red hair flying like flames in front of him: Ginny was locked in combat ..."
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Jan 24 2006, 11:43 AM
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
And he didn't had his own wand with him in the PoA
i think that when one changes in an Animagus then they have their wand with them........can we imagine the Marauders without their wands and roaming the Hogwarts grounds(even McGonagall when she went to Privet Drive) Did he had his wand in the graveyard after he got his silver hand ?? -------------------- |
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Jan 24 2006, 12:57 PM
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#12
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 163 Joined: 5:33pm January 4, 2006 Location: Trying to find my own Ginny |
Wormtail is likely to have is wand, as he never was arrested or anything.
But it's also possible he left his wand along with his finger (to distract the ministery even more). I have this theory that wormtail was the one who was with LV at Goddric's Hollow. As soon as the spell rebounded he picked up LV's wand and fled. This could explain how LV got his wand back, and also why Wormtail used LV's wand to kill Cedric Diggory. -------------------- "That's the second time we've saved your life tonight you two faced b------!!"
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Jan 24 2006, 01:04 PM
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Gazing at the Clouds  Posts: 3,433 Joined: 7:07pm July 23, 2005 Location: waving from the attic window of the Lily and Stag |
QUOTE(pscspagfophbp @ Jan. 24 2006,11:43 ) And he didn't had his own wand with him in the PoA i think that when one changes in an Animagus then they have their wand with them........can we imagine the Marauders without their wands and roaming the Hogwarts grounds(even McGonagall when she went to Privet Drive) Did he had his wand in the graveyard after he got his silver hand ?? Interesting thought! I hadn't thought about McGonagall being wandless whilst keeping lookout at Privet Dr. Does not seem likely. Gooood point! Historically I have another question about Lord V.'s / Tom Riddle's wand: if the wand choses the wizard, did that mean that Tom and Harry (since the wands are "brothers" had the same potential before they started at Hogwarts??? Did they have the same potential level of abilities?? What about the same potential for chosing good or evil?? -------------------- mokey's blessing:
 Lily and Stag Butterfly |
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Jan 24 2006, 01:12 PM
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#14
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins Posts: 2,518 Joined: 2:33pm September 16, 2005 Location: I'm somewhere inside all of you |
It is possible that if Voldemort had never tried to murder Harry at GH that the "brother" wand would never have picked Harry; Harry would be a "different" person and would have gotten a different wand. Since LV passed something on the Harry, that may be why the wand picked Harry.
-------------------- "Harry now saw red hair flying like flames in front of him: Ginny was locked in combat ..."
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Jan 25 2006, 08:56 AM
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#15
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
i agree because Voldemort chose Harry so the brother wand of Voldemort's wand chose Harry and i think that Dumbledore was suspicious of it or atleast hoping for it because he had asked Ollivander to contact him if Voldemort's brother wand was sold
i have a doubt why was Dumbledore curious to know who had got Voldemort's brother wand because there would be a very less chance that a Prior Incantemen would have happened.......Is there some other qualities that 'brother wands' have ?? As for the Animagus i think the particular wizard/witch can carry his/her own wand in their Animagus form -------------------- |
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Jan 25 2006, 09:07 AM
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins Posts: 2,518 Joined: 2:33pm September 16, 2005 Location: I'm somewhere inside all of you |
I would think that Dumbledore wanted to know who received the "brother" wand to Riddle's because both that person and Riddle would likely share some characteristics. Dumbledore would certainly want some advance notice if another "Voldemort" was up and coming. But in the end I suspect he knew Harry would be chosen by the wand.
-------------------- "Harry now saw red hair flying like flames in front of him: Ginny was locked in combat ..."
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Jan 25 2006, 09:13 AM
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
Is it mentioned that Ron and Hermione know that Harry's wand is the brother of Voldemort's because if they did maybe Hermione may dig out some information about it
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Jan 27 2006, 12:52 PM
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#18
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 228 Joined: 11:58am August 30, 2005 |
Wormtail had no wand with him in PoA? Are we sure? He had been Scabbers for twelve years. Maybe he just forgot it. And in the shack, he knew better than to try to duel with Sirius and Lupin. As McGonagall said in the earlier discussion in the Three Broomsticks (PoA), he was hopeless at dueling. Then, when Remus transformed into a Werewolf, dropping his wand, it was just too tempting. Maybe easier to reach than LV's wand in his innermost pocket. And using Remus' wand would keep anyone from suspecting that he actually had LV's wand.
Unlike the Animagi, Werewolves do not make their clothes and possessions a part of the change. The movie was right, when it had him break out of his clothes when he was transforming. |
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Feb 4 2006, 10:33 AM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 23 Joined: 12:17am October 9, 2005 Location: South Carolina |
I think it makes a lot of sense for an animagus to keep what they have on them when they transform, so that they can use their wand or other items when they transform back into human form.
As to the question of what happened to Wormtail's wand? I think he hid it or still has it with him. As someone pointed out it was two against one in the shrieking shack. Wormtail knew he would have no chance of out dueling both Lupin and Sirius. So he tried to persuade them not to kill him, instead of attacking them. He obviously thought his chances of survival were better this way. If there was someone else at Godric's Hollow (I have no idea whether I believe this or not; it seems unnecessary for Voldemort to bring someone else along. The only person I could see coming with him would be Snape, but this is probably part of another thread.) then it is highly probable that they took Voldermort's wand. If this was Wormtail it explains how Voldemort regained his wand in GoF. If it was someone else, further information is needed to decipher how Voldemort would have regained his wand. It seems highly improbable that Voldemort was in contact with any other DEs besides Wormtail and Crouch Jr. throughout GoF, so that his plan would not be revealed to anyone, least of all Harry. Why did Ollivander disappear? I think this will have some relevance to Book 7. Rowling rarely mentions something without it being significant. Did Ollivander run before Voldemort got a hold of him or did Voldemort capture him to make another wand for him? This is slightly off topic, but I think it may be significant that Neville's new wand was (according to Neville) the last wand Ollivander sold before he vanished. Did Ollivander know he had to leave, but remained until selling Neville his new wand, knowing how important Neville is? (This may be completely wrong, just wondering) Anyway, thats all I've got at the moment. Hope all this makes some sense and adds to fuel of this interesting discussion. -------------------- "It had little to do with Dumbledore as Harry had known him. He suddenly remembered Dumbledore's idea of a few words, 'nitwit,' 'oddment,' 'blubber,' and 'tweak,' and again had to suppress a grin....What was the matter with him?" -HBP pg. 644 (U.S.)
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Feb 4 2006, 11:30 AM
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Exploding Snap Champion Posts: 1,741 Joined: 1:02pm August 11, 2005 Location: Hogwarts. |
QUOTE it seems unnecessary for Voldemort to bring someone else along But surely Wormtail had to be at Godric's Hollow, otherwise how else did LV know where to go? I know Wormtail could have written it down but it doesn't seem likely that Voldemort would go without the insurance of having the secret keeper with him. -------------------- Born in July 1881 - Died in June 1997.
"I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me... Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it." Albus Dumbledore¿ |
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Feb 4 2006, 11:33 AM
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#21
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
QUOTE(WeasleyisourKing19 @ Feb. 04 2006,10:33 ) If there was someone else at Godric's Hollow (I have no idea whether I believe this or not; it seems unnecessary for Voldemort to bring someone else along. The only person I could see coming with him would be Snape, but this is probably part of another thread.) then it is highly probable that they took Voldermort's wand. If this was Wormtail it explains how Voldemort regained his wand in GoF. There has to be someone else at the GH the night the Potters' died if not how did Dumbledore come to know that Lily and James were dead and Lily had died saving Harry but the person whoever he/she was would have been nuetral since they didn't try to save the Potters and as for it being a DE wouldn't that particular DE be scared out of their wits to see their master in a Vapour-form and would he have a thought of taking Voldemort's wand i think no So probably Wormtail took Voldemort's wand after he ran from Hogwarts at the end of PoA -------------------- |
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Feb 4 2006, 11:41 AM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 23 Joined: 12:17am October 9, 2005 Location: South Carolina |
QUOTE(~Dumbledore's~Ghost¿~ @ Feb. 04 2006,11:30 ) QUOTE it seems unnecessary for Voldemort to bring someone else along But surely Wormtail had to be at Godric's Hollow, otherwise how else did LV know where to go? I know Wormtail could have written it down but it doesn't seem likely that Voldemort would go without the insurance of having the secret keeper with him. I had not thought of that. He might have brought Wormtail so that in case he was lying he could punish him. Interesting, it does make more sense now, if Wormtail was there. Yet once they arrived at Godric's Hollow, would Wormtail have gone inside and witnessed everything that happened? Would Voldemort have made him wait outside, so that all Wormtail knows is that Voldemort went inside and minutes later the house was destroyed, with only Harry alive? I'm sure there are more questions I have about this. Right now I'm on the fence as to whether Wormtail was there or not. -------------------- "It had little to do with Dumbledore as Harry had known him. He suddenly remembered Dumbledore's idea of a few words, 'nitwit,' 'oddment,' 'blubber,' and 'tweak,' and again had to suppress a grin....What was the matter with him?" -HBP pg. 644 (U.S.)
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Feb 4 2006, 11:48 AM
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#23
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 23 Joined: 12:17am October 9, 2005 Location: South Carolina |
QUOTE(pscspagfophbp @ Feb. 04 2006,11:33) There has to be someone else at the GH the night the Potters' died if not how did Dumbledore come to know that Lily and James were dead and Lily had died saving Harry but the person whoever he/she was would have been nuetral since they didn't try to save the Potters and as for it being a DE wouldn't that particular DE be scared out of their wits to see their master in a Vapour-form and would he have a thought of taking Voldemort's wand i think no So probably Wormtail took Voldemort's wand after he ran from Hogwarts at the end of PoA So, pscspagfophbp you are saying that Wormtail went back to Godric's Hollow after he ran away from Hogwarts and before he ran into Voldemort? Why would Wormtail go out of his way to go back to Godric's Hollow? Are you saying he went back purposefully to get Voldemort's wand? If Voldemort's wand was lying in the rubble of Godric's Hollow for 13 years, how come Dumbledore didn't retrieve it so that Voldemort could not use it? I'm sure that at some point Dumbledore would have gone to examine the aftermath at Godric's Hollow. I don't know, it just seems more logical for Wormtail to have taken Voldemort's wand the night of the Potter's deaths, and not 13 years later. -------------------- "It had little to do with Dumbledore as Harry had known him. He suddenly remembered Dumbledore's idea of a few words, 'nitwit,' 'oddment,' 'blubber,' and 'tweak,' and again had to suppress a grin....What was the matter with him?" -HBP pg. 644 (U.S.)
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Feb 4 2006, 11:49 AM
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Exploding Snap Champion Posts: 1,741 Joined: 1:02pm August 11, 2005 Location: Hogwarts. |
QUOTE Yet once they arrived at Godric's Hollow, would Wormtail have gone inside and witnessed everything that happened? Would Voldemort have made him wait outside Well if I was Voldemort I'd have taken Wormtail in & taunted the Potters about who had betrayed them. And also to show Wormtail the consequences of his actions, just to keep a little bit more over him. 
-------------------- Born in July 1881 - Died in June 1997.
"I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me... Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it." Albus Dumbledore¿ |
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Feb 4 2006, 11:53 AM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 23 Joined: 12:17am October 9, 2005 Location: South Carolina |
QUOTE(~Dumbledore's~Ghost¿~ @ Feb. 04 2006,11:49 ) QUOTE Yet once they arrived at Godric's Hollow, would Wormtail have gone inside and witnessed everything that happened? Would Voldemort have made him wait outside Well if I was Voldemort I'd have taken Wormtail in & taunted the Potters about who had betrayed them. And also to show Wormtail the consequences of his actions, just to keep a little bit more over him. That makes a lot of sense as well. I like the way you think Dumbledore's Ghost. :D -------------------- "It had little to do with Dumbledore as Harry had known him. He suddenly remembered Dumbledore's idea of a few words, 'nitwit,' 'oddment,' 'blubber,' and 'tweak,' and again had to suppress a grin....What was the matter with him?" -HBP pg. 644 (U.S.)
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Feb 4 2006, 11:56 AM
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#26
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
QUOTE(WeasleyisourKing19 @ Feb. 04 2006,11:41 ) I had not thought of that. He might have brought Wormtail so that in case he was lying he could punish him. Interesting, it does make more sense now, if Wormtail was there. Yet once they arrived at Godric's Hollow, would Wormtail have gone inside and witnessed everything that happened? Would Voldemort have made him wait outside, so that all Wormtail knows is that Voldemort went inside and minutes later the house was destroyed, with only Harry alive? I'm sure there are more questions I have about this. Right now I'm on the fence as to whether Wormtail was there or not. But Voldemort wouldn't need wormatail to find the Potters if wormatail would ahve told him that would have been good enough as for punishing Wormtail he could just Apparate back and punish him its not like Wormatail would run away -------------------- |
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Feb 6 2006, 07:39 AM
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#27
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins Posts: 2,518 Joined: 2:33pm September 16, 2005 Location: I'm somewhere inside all of you |
I think, as the Secret Keeper, that Wormtail had to be present for Voldemort to find the Potter's house. Wormtail could not just tell Voldemort where the Potter's lived, as this is how the protection is designed. Reference Snape's comments (I believe to Bellatrix) about 12 GP and that he is not able to divulge the location.
-------------------- "Harry now saw red hair flying like flames in front of him: Ginny was locked in combat ..."
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Feb 6 2006, 12:50 PM
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#28
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
Yes but Dumbledore was not present when Moody showed the slip cantaining the address of #12 Grimmauld Place though he was the Secret-Keeper
I think what Snape meant was that only the Secret Keeper can tell the address and not the others -------------------- |
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Feb 6 2006, 03:21 PM
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#29
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins Posts: 2,518 Joined: 2:33pm September 16, 2005 Location: I'm somewhere inside all of you |
OK, I think you're right, my mistake. So the rule is, only the Secret Keeper can divulge the location.
-------------------- "Harry now saw red hair flying like flames in front of him: Ginny was locked in combat ..."
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Feb 6 2006, 09:50 PM
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#30
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 119 Joined: 7:45pm January 19, 2006 Location: In detention with Snape |
I think Wormtail has taken Lord Voldemort' wand at Godric Hollow (remember: Sirius said that when he didn't find Peter Pettigrew at home, he suspected a tragedy was coming) and has concealed it for 12 years somewhere (as a rat he didn't need it).
After that, he killed the 12 Muggles using his own wand and he made people believe it was Sirius who did that. Of course, as he was presumed dead, he had to leave his wand there. When 12 years later he was discovered, he escaped from Hogwarts, took back Lord Voldemort's wand and went to Albania (he needed a wand to go there and survive there). Remember: in Albania he found Lord Voldemort, but also Bertha Jorkins. With his wand Lord Voldemort killed her (we know that from the Priori Incantatem) and thanks to Wormtail he could find a small, horrible body to host his soul and he could come back to Britain, to Little Hangleton: 1) Killed James 2) Killed Lily After 12 years.. 3) Killed Bertha 4) Killed Frank Bryce 5) Wormtail Killed Cedric Diggory with Voldemort's wand -------------------- Member of E.L.F. (Elf Liberation Front)
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Feb 6 2006, 10:19 PM
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#31
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Monster Book Stacker Posts: 360 Joined: 6:49pm July 28, 2005 Location: hiding in the forbidden forest waiting for lupin |
I still believe that Lucius was there at Godric's Hollow the night that the Potter's were murdered. Being that Lucius had so many other things that once belonged to Voldemort, it would not have been hard for him to make sure that it surreptitously make sure that he got it back. It could also explain why Voldemort trusted him to be in charge of the fiasco at the Ministry.
Besides don't you think that its possible that Wormtail would have gone to Lucius to help him get out of the country and away from Lupin and Sirius. Esp. since Sirius was on the run again. Wormtail would have been afraid that he would meet up with his two former friends. :ponder: :ponder: -------------------- Yipee!!!!I'm in Gryffindor!!!
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Feb 6 2006, 10:26 PM
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#32
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Monster Book Stacker Posts: 360 Joined: 6:49pm July 28, 2005 Location: hiding in the forbidden forest waiting for lupin |
Also, we know that Snape is the one that warned Dumbledore. Dumbledore said as much in Book 6 when he was explaining things to Harry, also he referred to it at the end of Book 5. Remember Snape says that he had to make Dumbledore believe that he was really sorry for what he had done, and it never is really said what he did to make Dumbledore to trust him. I think that he had to have given him information, how would DD know to send Hagrid for Harry so quickly after everything happened.
-------------------- Yipee!!!!I'm in Gryffindor!!!
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Feb 7 2006, 08:07 PM
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#33
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 12 Joined: 10:20pm January 23, 2006 Location: Kentucky, U.S.A. |
I donot think it was Wormtail who was saving Voldemort's wand, I think it was either Lucius or Snape. Lucius because he has so many various dark magical items including Tom Riddle's diary from COS. I think Snape is a possibility because of how he betrayed Dumbledore in book 6, he was just waiting for that right moment.
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Feb 9 2006, 03:24 AM
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#34
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
Actually i also believed that Wormtail was present the night when Potters' died and he had taken Voldemort's wand but wouldn't Wormtail be scared out of his wits when he sees his master transfered in the Vapour form and would he have so much sense to collest Voldemort's wand and then go into hiding IMO he would be more cared about himself than others
I think Wormtail after he was free in PoA went to GH took Voldemort's wand and then went looking for Voldemort in Albania -------------------- |
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Feb 11 2006, 03:19 PM
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Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 53 Joined: 6:04am January 14, 2006 Location: in the ministry waiting for sirius to come through the veil |
i think only 2 people could have safeguarded lvs wand and they are wormtail and barty crouch jr. coz lv gets his wand (wormtail hands it over to him) before the deatheaters arrive and we know for sure that before the scene in the graveyard, onlt these 2 have met lv.so one of the 2 of them must have taken the wand from godrics hollow right after lvs death or after they know he is alive.this seems farfetched coz its hard to believe dd wouldnt have searched godrics hollow after lvs flee.so probably one of them was present in godrics hollow when lv attacks the potters.and but dont think wormtail is the kind of person who would have so much confidence so as to take up lvs wand after so many things had happened.if i have understood him right he would have feld the place first thing.which brings us down to barty jr being there..but that sounds farfetched too..dunno ....this is quite confusing
-------------------- ***
mr moony presents his compliments to prof snape and begs him to keep his abnormally large nose out of other peoples business. mr prongs agrees with mr moony and adds that prof snape is an ugly git. mr padfoot would like to register his astonishment than an idiot like that ever became a professor. mr wormtail bids prof snape good dayand advises him to wash his hair,the slimeball *** |
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Feb 12 2006, 06:33 AM
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#36
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
QUOTE(poornima_c_s @ Feb. 11 2006,15:19 ) i think only 2 people could have safeguarded lvs wand and they are wormtail and barty crouch jr. coz lv gets his wand (wormtail hands it over to him) before the deatheaters arrive and we know for sure that before the scene in the graveyard, onlt these 2 have met lv. Actually Voldemort uses his wand to murder Bertha Jokins(whom Wormtail had taken to Voldemort),the muggle Frank Bryce so Voldemort had his wand before he met Barty Crouch Jr -------------------- |
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 Mar 9 2006, 02:36 PM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 2:24pm March 9, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO - USA |
I'm just curious - and being a new member, if I'm in the wrong area or if this has been discussed ad nauseum someplace else, please (politely!!!) point me in the right direction.
However, my question is this - how is it that Wormtail was able to get LV's wand back to him in GOF?? LV was without body, he couldn't hold a wand, and as far as I know, JKR never mentions what happened to the thing once the curse rebounded from Harry. Wormtail didn't have it on him when he was a rat, obviously - so how did it get from the Potter's house when he attempted to kill Harry to where ever it was when Wormtail got it to give back to LV, and how did Wormtail know where to get it?? -------------------- There is no spoon.
The Matrix |
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Mar 9 2006, 05:01 PM
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#38
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 172 Joined: 4:58pm August 7, 2005 Location: mass |
I asked myself the same question when watchign the movie, funny how that never crossed my mind while reading the book. Anyways this is an intrestiing theory becasue I dont think LV wand would be at the hosue for all those years DD prolly would have taken it. i am suprised this topic hasnt been explored befor. Anyone have any ideas?
This post has been edited by rosie12L: Mar 9 2006, 05:02 PM -------------------- It does not due to dwell on dreams and forget to live-DD PS/SS Book & Movie
http://warnerbros.eprize.net/harrypotter4/...b1babcb34db8880 |
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Mar 9 2006, 05:06 PM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 2:24pm March 9, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO - USA |
And, as far as I know, no one has ever asked JKR this in any interviews. Something had kind of been niggling at the back of my brain about this for a while, but I didn't put my finger on it until it just sort of came to me out of the blue while I was watching GOF (just came out on DVD - yeehaw!!) when he asked Wormtail for his wand. And then I'm like, "Wait a minute! Where the h*ll did he get that thing?!?!" Now that it's occurred to me, it seems kind of obvious and I'm kicking myself for not having thought of it before, and I'm surprised that no one has asked this to JKR in all the interviews I've read.
-------------------- There is no spoon.
The Matrix |
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Mar 9 2006, 05:25 PM
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#40
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 172 Joined: 4:58pm August 7, 2005 Location: mass |
i'm suprised no ones asked it befor two, lets see i am gonna just list a couple of possablities.
-some death eater came to the house and got it. - wormtail had it - the wand like dies with a person or somthing and when volddemort got a body in quirral it came back i dono nothin seems to really make any sence here. This post has been edited by rosie12L: Mar 9 2006, 05:26 PM -------------------- It does not due to dwell on dreams and forget to live-DD PS/SS Book & Movie
http://warnerbros.eprize.net/harrypotter4/...b1babcb34db8880 |
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Mar 9 2006, 05:34 PM
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#41
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 2:24pm March 9, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO - USA |
The theory about Wormtail having it makes the most sense - but that means that Wormtail would have had to have been with LV that night when he murdered Lily and James. Which makes sense, seeing as he was the Secret-Keeper. Also, I do remember reading an interview with JKR when she was really cagey about answering a question about if anyone was with LV that night. But that just poses another question, why would Wormtail have taken his wand? Surely he couldn't have thought that his Master would come back, he would have just seen him vaporize, or whatever happened when the curse rebounded. Maybe he coveted the power? And where would he have hidden it all this while? I dunno. I'm looking for some interesting opinions.
Another side thought - could LV's wand be a Horcrux? I mean, surely it has great significance to him. I know DD said that LV wouldn't have wanted to keep it near him once he had made it, but who knows, really? And since we have no idea how the spell works, who is to say that it couldn't be? It would make for an interesting dilemma on how to defeat him in book 7 - get rid of his wand first, then him. -------------------- There is no spoon.
The Matrix |
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Mar 9 2006, 08:05 PM
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#42
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Chief Mischief-Maker  Posts: 8,572 Joined: 5:07pm January 28, 2005 Location: The Marauder's Map never lies ... |
Please note that another topic which is discussing Voldemort's wand has been merged into this one.
Narya Leaky Mod -------------------- Proud Gryffindor
  and OPAST member"Hallows," murmured Dumbledore, "not Horcruxes. Precisely."  |
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Mar 10 2006, 11:47 AM
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#43
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 112 Joined: 5:15pm June 21, 2005 |
QUOTE(Arestar @ Mar 9 2006, 07:36 PM) [snapback]738166[/snapback] I'm just curious - and being a new member, if I'm in the wrong area or if this has been discussed ad nauseum someplace else, please (politely!!!) point me in the right direction. However, my question is this - how is it that Wormtail was able to get LV's wand back to him in GOF?? LV was without body, he couldn't hold a wand, and as far as I know, JKR never mentions what happened to the thing once the curse rebounded from Harry. Wormtail didn't have it on him when he was a rat, obviously - so how did it get from the Potter's house when he attempted to kill Harry to where ever it was when Wormtail got it to give back to LV, and how did Wormtail know where to get it?? If you remember the scene in the graveyard in GoF, LV is talking to HArry and the death eaters. He goes over all of the steps that it took to get him to have a body. he mentioned that he had taken a potion of Unicorn blood and Nagini's Venom that he invented. That gave him a shell of a body. He didn't have a body of his own yet, but he did have a shell of one (forgive me, I don't have the actual quote here) It is very probable that that potion was taken before Wormtail found him. Once wormtail found LV, LV was able to torture Amelia Bones into giving the knowledge that she had. In that same graveyard scene, LV says that he couldn't do much magic without a wand and he said that it took a lot of magic to get the secrets from Amelia. This tells me that he had to have his wand at that time and be able to use it. How else could he have gotten the information out of Amelia? LV says that he did the magic (not wormtail). I think the combo's of the potion, wormtail bringing him his wand at that time and LV having his own wand in the graveyard the only logical explination is that wormtail had his wand and took it to him. Though I do think it a sound theory, feel free to rip it apart or ask for more info. Now, as for Lucious and Snape having his wand, remeber that neither of them saw LV until after he had his wand back in the graveyard. This post has been edited by raisor101: Mar 10 2006, 11:49 AM |
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Mar 11 2006, 01:43 PM
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#44
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 36 Joined: 1:36pm February 26, 2006 |
i've been saying this for awhile, so i agree, voldemort's wand is a horcrux. and i truly believe that another person at Godric's Hollow took voldemort's wand.
good or bad, i think it was snape. he would have had the opportunity in PoA to give wormtail the wand. |
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Mar 11 2006, 02:15 PM
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#45
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 102 Joined: 8:41pm January 28, 2005 Location: STILL trying to cope with HBP and silently boycotting my HP books. |
I don't know...
While it seems probable that someone else was there that night, WE KNOW it wasn't Snape. Snape told Bellatrix that he wasn't there and if we take him at his word, he wasn't. I can't imagine that the wand was just laying there chilling for 13 years. Somebody came and took it and we don't know who or when. But it was either directly after Voldemort was vaporized or hours after Harry had been rescued. I mean, let's go over who we know was there after it all went down: Hagrid -- and loveable as he is, he doesn't seem to notice much and can often be a bit of a dunce. If his job was to get Harry, then that's just what he did. He moved around a bit of wreckage, he got Harry and he left. Sirius -- his best friend has just been murdered and betrayed by their other best friend. He ain't looking for no wands. He's going to go and kill Peter. Voldemort -- well, he's dead right? Right?? This does leave a serious case of WhoDunIt (like we need another one) on our hands. It could have been Peter. I'm on the fence with this one. It could have been Lucius, but this too seems unlikely as the first time Lucius sees Voldemort is when all the other DE's see him, bar Peter and Barty Crouch. Which brings me to something else we need to think about. We are more likely to go with the people that we know and suspect the most, but let us not forget that there are other Death Eaters out there. So then, we have to think about who saw the Dark Lord before he regained his body. Quirrell -- but he obviously didn't have the wand or we'd have seen Voldy waaaaaay earlier. Peter -- this is a possibility. It is only after the renewed meeting with Peter that we now see Voldemort's wand back in action. But where did he get it from? Where's he been hiding it? Barty Crouch Jr. -- well, he and Peter and Voldemort all link up in GoF, but by then, if I remember correctly, he's already killed Bertha Jorkins with a wand. His wand. So perhaps the most likely candidate is Peter. But I just don't believe he took Peter with him that night. Edited to add: Sooo... how bout this. Clearly, the word about Voldemort being vaporized got around FAST. So sometime that night, (or in the wee hours of the morn) after Harry has been rescued and Sirius is now looking for Peter, Peter goes to see if what he's hearing is true. Right? Cause let's look at this from Peter's point of view. If it's true, wherever he was before Voldemort left, and I'm assuming he was at some unknown Dark Lord location, he's got to get out of there fast before the other Death Eaters, who know that Voldemort went to Godric's on Peter's orders, come looking for him. So, he's on the run as it is. But before he goes, he stops by Godrics to see if it's true. It is. He grabs the Dark Lord's armaments and bolts out of there, finding an effective hiding place before Sirius can find him. Still, Peter is a coward -- and let's be mindful of this. No one has said that Peter is stupid. He can't be. He runs with the Dark Lord. But he is a coward. So when found and confronted by Sirius, he tries to shift the blame on Sirius cause he knows that Sirius knows and it's about to get ugly. Also, remember this: they say he had a wand behind his back. They never said it was HIS wand, just that it was A wand. So even if he hadn't hidden it the night before, he uses it on the muggles to make his great escape, thus effectively faking his death and hiding himself until the Dark Lord returns and hides it within the 24 hours after the Dark Lord is vanquished. Which then brings me to this: Does Peter know WAY before we do that Voldemort has Horcruxes??? Viva la Scarheads TOWK This post has been edited by TheOneWhoKnows: Mar 11 2006, 02:28 PM -------------------- "But for heaven's sake-you're wizards! You can do magic! Surely you can sort out-well-anything!"
Scrimgeour turned slowly on the spot and exchanged an incredulous look with Fudge, who really did manage a small smile this time as he said kindly, "The trouble is, the other side can do magic too, Prime Minister." HBP (US ed.) pg.18 ***Voldemort Can't Stop the Rock!*** |
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 Mar 12 2006, 03:25 AM
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#46
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 258 Joined: 8:14am January 14, 2006 Location: Back in the cold.  |
It remains a mistery to me who took the wand from GH, but I believe that LV must have succeeded into getting it back in book 1. As he was planning to ressurect himself with the Sorcerer's stone, he must have had his want stashed somewhere in case it worked and he had gotten his body back.
Another thing I was wondering about is Nagini. LV was able to control him/her even in vaper-form. What if LV ordered Nagini to get his wand... maybe even swallow it to keep it safe, until the time was there for LV to regain his power. -------------------- "Not my daughter, you BITCH!!!" (Go Molly!!!!) |
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Mar 12 2006, 11:02 AM
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#47
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,471 Joined: 9:41am October 23, 2005 Location: Looking for Sirius' motor bike.......nono i am not going to lend it to anyone(except the trio) |
QUOTE(Dobby2dmax @ Mar 12 2006, 08:25 AM) [snapback]740509[/snapback] It remains a mistery to me who took the wand from GH, but I believe that LV must have succeeded into getting it back in book 1. As he was planning to ressurect himself with the Sorcerer's stone, he must have had his want stashed somewhere in case it worked and he had gotten his body back. No i don't agree Voldmeort mentioned in his coming back speech in GoF that all the magic which would get him his body back involved a wand not necessarily his wand so IMO he would be ok if Quirrell used his wand to mske the Elixir of life -------------------- |
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Mar 12 2006, 12:33 PM
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#48
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 258 Joined: 8:14am January 14, 2006 Location: Back in the cold. |
QUOTE(pscspagfophbp @ Mar 12 2006, 05:02 PM) [snapback]740686[/snapback] No i don't agree Voldmeort mentioned in his coming back speech in GoF that all the magic which would get him his body back involved a wand not necessarily his wand so IMO he would be ok if Quirrell used his wand to mske the Elixir of life I don't mean he needed his wand to come back, but because he came back... If his wand somehow survived after the attack on GH (and we know now it had)... he would have wanted it back, wouldn't he?!? The more I think about it, the more I believe Nagini was involved in this. LV controlled the snake completely, making it his most trustworthy helper. I think there's more to Nagini than we suspect. -------------------- "Not my daughter, you BITCH!!!" (Go Molly!!!!) |
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Mar 12 2006, 05:33 PM
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#49
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 2:24pm March 9, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO - USA |
The fact that the 10 (or so) people who died when Wormtail killed them during his confrontation with Sirius did not reappear during the Priori Incantatem (sp?) during GoF leads me to believe that it was NOT LV's wand Wormtail was using at the time. However, on a side note, I want to add that I am not convinced that Wormtail killed those people on purpose. We've seen that Harry can wreak havoc on people (such as blowing up Aunt Marge) even without a wand when he is experiencing an emotional upset. You'd have to think that being confronted by Sirius and owning up to the fact that he caused the death of two people who were his friends would cause Wormtail to be pretty distraught, and that wand COULD have gone off by accident and killed people. I say COULD. I'm sure JKR will enlighten us on the whole sequence of events and all the whys and wherefores in Book 7.
So - since JKR has been pretty cagey about answering questions about if someone was with LV that night at Godric's Hollow, I have to draw the conclusion that someone was there, and just who it was may surprise all of us. That person more than likely took the wand and held it until Wormtail either came and stole it, or arranged to take it. It makes more sense that Wormtail was that person. I'm pretty sure that Wormtail would have had to at least accompany LV to the Potters' that night to direct him to the spot, since he was the Secret-Keeper. I'm not entirely convinced that Snape was there. But I agree that it's a strong possibility that he was. And again I want to ask - does anyone else think LV's wand could be a Horcrux? -------------------- There is no spoon.
The Matrix |
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Mar 12 2006, 06:27 PM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 102 Joined: 8:41pm January 28, 2005 Location: STILL trying to cope with HBP and silently boycotting my HP books. |
You know... I forgot about priori incantatem....
Yeah.... Peter went and got it and hid it or he lost his and when he escaped Sirius and Remus then he went and retrieved it looking for the Dark Lord. TOWK -------------------- "But for heaven's sake-you're wizards! You can do magic! Surely you can sort out-well-anything!"
Scrimgeour turned slowly on the spot and exchanged an incredulous look with Fudge, who really did manage a small smile this time as he said kindly, "The trouble is, the other side can do magic too, Prime Minister." HBP (US ed.) pg.18 ***Voldemort Can't Stop the Rock!*** |
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Mar 12 2006, 09:44 PM
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#51
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 21 Joined: 10:02pm January 10, 2006 |
OK so hows about this:
JKR said on her site the other week that the secret died with the secret keeper, but what about if the people the secret is about die? Is Harry's parents house still bound by the secret-keeper-spell? If so doesn't this mean that nobody could find the house unless Wormtail told them where it was? In that case Voldys wand could have laid there for 13years quite safe. It's pretty unlikely though: Voldemort fears death more than anything, so he is unlikely to go alone into any situation where there's even a slight chance he could die right? Also, where the heck was Wormtail's wand when he was a rat all those years? And where does any wizards wand go when they transform into an animal? surely they can't lose it becuase that'd be annoying more than anything... This post has been edited by DedalusDiggle: Mar 12 2006, 09:45 PM |
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Mar 13 2006, 12:10 AM
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#52
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 2:24pm March 9, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO - USA |
EXCELLENT point. I've never thought about what happens when the people whom the secret protects dies. Which would just reinforce the theory that it was Wormtail that had the wand, since he could go as the secret-keeper and nothing is contradicted within the canon. Now we just wonder what he did with it all this time, and also with his.
So your question now begs another question, how did Hagrid know where to go to get Harry that night, unless the charm was no longer in effect once James and Lily died? And my next question, how did DD know what had happened, since he wasn't there? How did he know that he could write that letter to Petunia explaining what had happened and that Lily's sacrifice would protect Harry in her home? HOW DID HE KNOW THAT??? GRRRR...(tearing my hair out, waiting for book 7) -------------------- There is no spoon.
The Matrix |
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Mar 13 2006, 04:47 AM
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#53
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 258 Joined: 8:14am January 14, 2006 Location: Back in the cold. |
I think that people with regard to the Fidelius Charm mix up "knowing where to go" and "finding the hidden object".
For example: Bellatrix must know where 12 Grimmauld Place is, as she used to come there / live there as a child. However as the house was under the Fidelius Charm for the OotP, she could still have gone to Grimmauld Place where she knows the house must be, but she would (just as Harry the first time he arrived there) only see number 11 and 13, with number 12 missing (wich is magically hidden). So I think Hagrid, who must have known where the house in GH was prior to the Fidelius Charm, went to GH after they had found out something was wrong. But he did find the house, even though he didn't know who was the secretkeeper... HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN Chapter 10 The marauders Map QUOTE [Hagrid] "...It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an' James's house after they was killed! jus' got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an' his parents dead... an' Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin' motorbike he used ter ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin' there. I didn' know he'd bin Lily an' James's Secret-Keeper..." In the same conversation, Fudge says: QUOTE "He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --" "Black betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta. So the charm had only been on the house for a week. Therefore lots of people must have known where the house was. And since it was destroyed, the charm must have been lifted, making it visible to all again. That's why Hagrid was able to find the house and Harry, without even knowing the secret-keeper. But returning to the topic... who-ever took LV's wand from the rubble, had to have acted quickly. DD or the Ministery would have searched the place as soon as he/they could, to find out what had happened exactly. They knew LV had somehow been destroyed in the Potter's house, so they could have guessed that there could be items there that had belonged to LV (like his wand). Another little quote from PoA convinced me that Wormatil had to be present at GH with LV: Chapter 19 The Servant Of Lord Voldemort QUOTE [Sirius Black] "...The night they died, I'd arranged to check on Peter, make sure he was still safe, but when I arrived at his hiding place, he'd gone. Yet there was no sign of a struggle. It didn't feel right. I was scared. I set out for your parents' house straight away. And when I saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies... I realized what Peter must've done... what I'd done...." Wormtail left his hidingplace to go to GH with LV (who wanted Wormtail with him in case of betrayal. We can see in GoF that LV doesn't trust Wormtail too much). So Wormtail must have somehow taken LV's wand after the attack before he ran away. Maybe he took it because he did not have his own wand. It would make sense that LV took Wormtail's wand before they went to GH to prevent Wormtail turning in him, when faced with the killing of his former friends. Otherwise, I can't see Wormtail, whose only concern is his own safety, caring to look after LV's wand, after he was destroyed. That doesn't fit Wormtail's character. But that raises the question again why the muggles Wormtail killed when facing Sirius, if he used LV's wand for it, didn't show up in the priory incatatem-scene in GOF. Ouch... this one is cracking my brain... every answer raises ten more questions..  .I hope that book 7 will shed some more light on the subject.  -------------------- "Not my daughter, you BITCH!!!" (Go Molly!!!!) |
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Mar 13 2006, 06:25 AM
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#54
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 21 Joined: 10:02pm January 10, 2006 |
I think it's exactly in Wormtails character to keep hold of LV's wand. He's described as always going after powerful people, so a potentially powerful magical object like The Dark Lords wand is the kinda thing he'd hold on to. He knows he can never go back to wizard society after faking his own death, so surely on the off chance He Who Must Not Be Named came back, Wormtail would want something to make him useful. There could be multiple reasons for it.
Also, with Wormtail using Voldy's wand to kill the muggles; isn't it more likey that he somehow used Sirius' wand? That way if the aurors used the charm seen in the forest at the quiditch world cup, a shadow of whatever spell was used to kill them would have come out of his wand, proving Sirius' guilt. Although he could easily have used his own, as there was no mention of it not being found when he escaped! |
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Mar 15 2006, 02:13 PM
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#55
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 228 Joined: 11:58am August 30, 2005 |
Yes, I have long thought that Wormtail was with LV at GH. He was probably hiding just outside the door in his Animagus form. Just far enough away that James would not see him. James, too, would have recognized the rat. But, I don't think Wormtail used LV's wand to explode that street. He used his own and then dropped it into the inferno. LV's wand, hidden in a very deep pocket, changed with his clothes when he transformed. I still think it was part of Scabbers all those years. But in PoA, when he was ready to escape, Lupin's dropped wand was convenient. If he had dug into that pocket for LV's wand, he probably wouldn't have had time to cast those two dark spells he put on Ron and Crookshanks, before being disarmed. Also, this allowed him to keep LV's wand and present it as gift when they met.
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Mar 16 2006, 12:11 AM
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#56
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Knight Bus Driver in Training Posts: 599 Joined: 5:29pm February 19, 2006 Location: the Burrow |
QUOTE(Arestar @ Mar 13 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]741323[/snapback] EXCELLENT point. I've never thought about what happens when the people whom the secret protects dies. Which would just reinforce the theory that it was Wormtail that had the wand, since he could go as the secret-keeper and nothing is contradicted within the canon. Now we just wonder what he did with it all this time, and also with his. So your question now begs another question, how did Hagrid know where to go to get Harry that night, unless the charm was no longer in effect once James and Lily died? And my next question, how did DD know what had happened, since he wasn't there? How did he know that he could write that letter to Petunia explaining what had happened and that Lily's sacrifice would protect Harry in her home? HOW DID HE KNOW THAT??? GRRRR...(tearing my hair out, waiting for book 7) the answer to this depends on how the secret was worded. if the secret was where the potters were hiding, the house would still, to this day, not able to be scene. If the secret was that the potters were hiding... then once the potters were no longer hiding (aka dead) the charm would therefore be lifted. -------------------- |
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Apr 13 2006, 09:36 AM
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#57
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 9 Joined: 8:01am April 4, 2006 |
Regarding Voldemorts Wand... does anyone else think it may be a horcrux?
The only thing that makes me say this comes from Jo Rowling mentioning that the colour of Harry's eyes is signifincant... this made me think maybe voldemorts eyes are also significant. Green, the colour of harry's eyes is also the colour of light emitted from a wand when it performs the Avada Kedavra curse. Red, the colour of voldemorts eyes, is also the colour emitted when the Expelliarmus curse is performed. Expelliarmus is a 'disarming' curse. Perhaps in order to kill voldemort harry must disarm him, not only to gain advantage, but also because his want is a horcrux.? |
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Apr 13 2006, 09:59 AM
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#58
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Director of Nicholas Flamel Laboratories Posts: 11,087 Joined: 11:06am January 28, 2005 Location: Lighting the mountain path for Llewellyn ap Gryffudd |
QUOTE So your question now begs another question, how did Hagrid know where to go to get Harry that night, unless the charm was no longer in effect once James and Lily died? And my next question, how did DD know what had happened, since he wasn't there? How did he know that he could write that letter to Petunia explaining what had happened and that Lily's sacrifice would protect Harry in her home? HOW DID HE KNOW THAT??? I think maybe Snape or Hagrid was there. At that point, it wouldn't matter whose side Snape was on, only that he convey the information. I'm not saying Peter wasn't there, but since he turned into a rat shortly thereafter and is most definitely on LV's side, that would leave either Hagrid or Snape to be the one to tell DD what happened. Speaking of Peter and the wand, where in the world did he hide it for 13 years if he was a rat?? No pockets to put it in, right? -------------------- The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.--Harlan Ellison
My father considered a walk among the mountains as the equivalent of churchgoing.--Aldous Huxley |
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May 3 2006, 04:55 PM
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#59
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 91 Joined: 3:30pm May 3, 2006 |
LV's wand? i think it's a lot simpler than you think. LV's curse backfires and hits himself (this would be the cause of the huge explosion) LV's soul (whatever you wanna call it) tries to enter harry, but somehow makes the scar he gave harry into a horcrux, and dissappears. meanwhile, sirius and wormtail are fighting closeby. wormtail does his own fake death but never actually enters the house. what we forget is that hagrid actually enters the house. think about his own intentions. all he has is a wand that is now a part of a umbrella (maybe not yet even) hagrid isn't exactly the smartest guy on the block. so he picks up the want. who knows? maybe he thought it was james or lily's wand. i think if i were in that situation (illegal use of a wand) i wouldn't tell anbody about it. and where did we find wormtail just before he entered LV service...at hagrid's. so woulnd't it be convenient for wormtail to find his old master's wand just before his escape. it makes sense as to why it was such a secret and why nobody found it. what do you think?
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May 3 2006, 05:34 PM
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#60
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 2:24pm March 9, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO - USA |
Interesting thought. I guess it's plausible, I just don't think it's probable. Hagrid knew James and Lily really well, so I think he would recognize their wands. If he did pick it up, he knew it wasn't theirs. But you make an interesting thought about Scabbers/PP being at Hagrid's right before he goes back to LV. And now that leads me to a couple more questions - what exactly did cause that explosion, and were all of James and Lily's things ruined? Does Harry have nothing left from his parents? I mean, Harry survived - surely something else in the house was left intact. Were his parents' wands destroyed?
And by the way - Sirius and Wormtail fighting didn't happen until the next day or something - in broad daylight in the middle of a street full of Muggles. Sirius met Hagrid at Godric's Hollow that night and gave him the flying motorbike, then took out to find Peter. So irritating and fun at the same time - each new theory poses a thousand more questions. It will never end until Book 7. I'm dying for it. -------------------- There is no spoon.
The Matrix |
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May 20 2006, 03:26 PM
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#61
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 5 Joined: 3:11am May 16, 2006 |
Isnt it possible that peter took voldy's wand and hid it somrwhere else before going into hiding? Afterall it not mentioned that he went into hiding straight away.
Plus about the secret of the location of potter family, is it the house which was under fidelus spell i always thought it was the person themselves. I think fudge or flitwick mentioning that nobody would see them even if they were looking at the window??? Can somebody provide the answer? Another interesting fact about voldy's wand is the common core with harry's, how will they defeat each other if they use the same wands??? And another thing the wand choose its user doesnt it, then how come Fawkes chose voldy as master, surely the feather should have rejected him??? |
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May 20 2006, 03:31 PM
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#62
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Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 45 Joined: 1:38pm May 9, 2006 |
i think he did it.........................................BY MAGIC!!!!!!
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May 20 2006, 04:56 PM
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#63
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 91 Joined: 3:30pm May 3, 2006 |
i think that the wand chose both of LV and harry is cuz it somehow knew that they had exceptional powers. i guess it is possible that the reason it chose harry is because of the scar and the powers the he gets from the scar. the difference between harry and LV is the choices that they made. the wand can't possibly know that beforehand. it is possible that the wand chose both cuz harry (theory) and LV are both heirs to the founders of Hogwarts.
i'm gonna assume that LV is using Mr ollivander to make wands for his army. he'll probably want a different wand next time he goes after harry. as far as teh fidelis charm, it is possible that DD was present, or even hagrid (i wonder why he didn't assume sirius was the secret keeper, wouldn't it be obvious? or did he know more?), when they made the fidelus charm. and yes, i'm sure that it's only the people that it's about. my suspicions about what happened to wand is that PP hid it at hagrid's at some point. the last place PP was at before he returned to LV was hagrid's place. |
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May 23 2006, 01:05 PM
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#64
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 112 Joined: 5:15pm June 21, 2005 |
I think it was Peter Pettigrew that took LV wand. I bet he held it the whole time actually. Remeber, when Reeter Skeeter transformed to a bug, her eyeglasses went with her. Why couldn't a wand or two transform with Peter?
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May 23 2006, 01:57 PM
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#65
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 5 Joined: 3:11am May 16, 2006 |
Maybe but if he had the wands why didnt he use them? why did he use that of the others, he would have had lots of chances to escape that way. I agree with your theory that the wands would change with him. But am not sure he had them at that particular moment.
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May 24 2006, 10:59 AM
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#66
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 228 Joined: 11:58am August 30, 2005 |
I agree that LV's wand changed with Peter. But as I said earlier, I also believe he dropped his own wand into the inferno the street had become after he had exploded it. Since he had left a finger and a bloody cloak behind when he transformed, it was believed that Sirius had killed him as well as twelve Muggles. Why didn't he grab for that wand in the Shrieking Shack? McGonagall said he was hopeless at dueling. So the thought of a magical duel with Sirius and Remus scared him. He tried to talk his way out of it. Later, after Remus had transformed, it was only the kids in his way. Did he even remember the powerful wand in his innermost pocket? He had been a rat for twelve years. So, Lupin's dropped wand was just too tempting. He hexed Ron, who had always been good to him,and Crookshanks, whom he hated. When Harry disarmed him, he didn't wait. The rat escaped into the forest, taking LV's wand with him.
What if he had used LV's wand on Ron and the cat? He was still useless at dueling. Harry would still disarm him, leaving the Dark Lord's wand on the ground a Hogwarts. And the unarmed Wormtail would not have had that great present ...his wand to offer LV when he found him. Imagine that. |
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May 25 2006, 08:59 PM
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#67
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 1 Joined: 8:55pm May 25, 2006 |
if you read the chapter diagon alley in PS then you will notice that in olivanders shop window it speaks of a single wand laying on a cushion and i have reason to believe that this is voldemorts wand and that is the reason olivander has been taken
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May 25 2006, 09:38 PM
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#68
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WeasleyCast's Hostess With The Mostest Posts: 6,606 Joined: 2:44am February 20, 2006 Location: At The Burrow taking cooking lessons from Molly |
QUOTE(proffesor_tofty @ May 25 2006, 08:59 PM) [snapback]832843[/snapback] if you read the chapter diagon alley in PS then you will notice that in olivanders shop window it speaks of a single wand laying on a cushion and i have reason to believe that this is voldemorts wand and that is the reason olivander has been taken Not that this is the topic here, but I think that this wand is Ravenclaw's old wand and that it is quite possibly a horcrux. That is the reason I think Ollivander is MIA -------------------- |
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 Jul 11 2007, 08:00 PM
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#69
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 68 Joined: 1:38am July 11, 2007 Location: Gosford, NSW, Australia |
yer, i was wondering the same thing, how could he have kept it as a rat? Andhaveing no body (no hands) how did he kill berha?
-------------------- ,,_,,
(oo) /'`'\ \'''''/ """" 'You must choose between what is right and what is easy' |
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Jul 13 2007, 08:17 PM
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#70
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 11 Joined: 8:19pm July 10, 2007 |
I have posted this on a couple of different sites and nobody seems to believe it but me.
I think BELLATRIX was at Godrics Hollow with and LV (and probably Wormtail too). I can just see her, sweet sadist that she is, begging her Dark Lord to let her come and watch them suffer while he defeats the nasty half-blood. In Harry's memory of the evening he hears a "high pitched cackle" or something worded similarly. If you've seen her character in the movie - that's about all she does is cackle like that every time you see her. She also says that LV "trusted me with his most precious...." which I believe is his wand (or more likely the secret that he made a horcrux). Bellatrix (whom LV affectionatly calls Bella, I believe) is also one of the few DEs who remain CONVINCED that LV will return and goes on to carry out his evil work by torturing the Longbottoms and refusing to betray him when on trial. I think she would have wanted his wand. I think she took it and hid it away somewhere and that LV retrieved it and hid it when occupying Quirrells body or had Wormtail retrieve it for the ceremony with Harry. I am sure that LV has a LAIR somewhere that they could have stashed it. Anyway, that is my theory and I will lay $$$$$ on the fact that she was there that night!!! |
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Jul 13 2007, 08:32 PM
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#71
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 308 Joined: 3:06pm May 3, 2006 |
Bella didn't see LV until after she broke out of Azkaban. LV had his wand prior to that, as evident to the battle between him and Harry at the end of GoF. the only possible person (that i can see) who could have taken it in wormtail because he is the only one who seems to have made contact with LV prior to him finding a body (other than Quirrel)
it is possible Bella was there at GH. but i don't think she took the wand |
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Jul 13 2007, 09:41 PM
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#72
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 11 Joined: 8:19pm July 10, 2007 |
No, but Bella had a month between that night and the night she went to Azkaban to hide it or place it somewhere that LV would know. The very next time he uses it is when he has the ceremony with Harry right (I may be wrong about that). But in the process of Wormtail milking snakes and killing unicorns, LV could have said go to "such and such a place" and get my wand. Or, Wormtail sneak in to Azkaban as a rat and find out where Bella hid my wand. I think Bella would have used the ole Crustaceous Curse on Wormtail if he had even thought of taking the wand on his own. Shriek Shriek!! Cackle!
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Jul 14 2007, 05:38 AM
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#73
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 308 Joined: 3:06pm May 3, 2006 |
LV uses the wand when he kills the old guy in the begining of GoF. so that means that LV got the wand somewhere between the end of PoA and GoF. i guess in your reasoning it's possible Bella took it. but i think it's unlikely. we'll find out in about a week
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Jul 14 2007, 09:47 PM
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#74
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 8 Joined: 5:50pm July 14, 2007 |
i think that wormtail went and visited lily and james before the nite they were killed and asked to borrow james's invisibility cloak, and of course since they were friends james lent it to him. then when wormtail took LV to the potter's that nite LV hid under the cloak and when lily went upstairs to put harry to bed LV took off the cloak and went after james. james then took off up the stairs and shouted to lily to take harry and go. he then tried to hold off LV. but by that time it was to late and LV killed james. he then went into harry's room to find lily wand out and waiting. somewhere in there i think that bellatrix might have turned up to see LV kill harry, and make his horcrux, and sent wormtail off before going inside. but when the AK backfired and LV was stripped from his body bellatrix freaked out thinking he was dead and destroyed the house to hide any evidence that she had been there from the DE, and putting all the blame on wormtail, or that LV was creating horcruxes from the ministry and the order. then she ran, took the wand with her, hid it, and pretended not to know anything. and when wormtail found out that LV was gone he knew he was in for it and tried to hide. that was when he was cornered by sirius, killed all those people, faked his death, and disappered. also LV found out where his wand was by performing Leglimency on bellatrix while she was in azkaban.
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Jul 14 2007, 09:57 PM
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#75
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 59 Joined: 8:06pm July 14, 2007 Location: the shrieking shack |
wormtail didnt have the cloak as in the first book harry gets it back with a note saying somthing like "your farther left this with me before he died now it must be returned to you use it will" so i think dumbledore had it but it could of been lupin but why then not leave a name? and why wood lestange just leave the potters home and harry alive she wood of killed him and i fort we just saw a flash back of that night when hagird told harry wot happend in the first book
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Jul 15 2007, 12:31 PM
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#76
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 8 Joined: 5:50pm July 14, 2007 |
when LV took off the cloak i think he dropped it. then after everything went wrong no one was in the right state of mind to remember it. so then when DD searched the house he found it and kept it to give to harry.
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Jul 15 2007, 01:33 PM
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#77
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 59 Joined: 8:06pm July 14, 2007 Location: the shrieking shack |
yes, but i think james lent it to the order then when the order broke up DD saw that harry may need it back as it was his dads
if you dont understand tell me in a email |
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Jul 15 2007, 04:28 PM
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#78
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 8 Joined: 5:50pm July 14, 2007 |
sry but im going back to expand on what i said eariler. when i said that i thought that someone had to be there to destroy the house i knew in my mind that there was proof somewhere that showed that someone had to have destroyed it... and i found the proof... finally...
in HBP chapter 17 pg 366 there is a paragraph about halfway down the page where harry and DD are talking during a lesson. the paragraph says: "The muggle authorities were perplexed. As far as I am aware, they do not know to this day how the Riddles died, for the AK curse does not usually leave any sign of damage.... The exception sits before me," DD added, with a nod to Harry's scar. so they only known damage from an AK curse is a scar so that means that someone or something had to be there to destroy the house. so does anyone else think that that makes sense or am i totally off here? |
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Jul 15 2007, 11:45 PM
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#79
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 59 Joined: 8:06pm July 14, 2007 Location: the shrieking shack |
What if the power of the spell damaged the house or maybe just the inside of the potters house was damaged like the sofa and stuff because of the figth that james but up or it could be when james and lv was fighting
This post has been edited by NYBookworm: Jul 16 2007, 05:59 AM |
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Jul 16 2007, 11:59 AM
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#80
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 8 Joined: 5:50pm July 14, 2007 |
the house was in rubble. hagrid said he pulled harry from the ruins. if the damage had been caused during james's and LVs fight and the house was destroyed LV would not have stuck around to kill harry knowing that neighbors would be around soon or call the police. he would have left and come back later to finish him and lily off. dont you think?
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