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WB/JKR vs. RDR Part 16
NickTLC
post Sep 10 2008, 10:29 AM
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We finally have a ruling!

Thank you everyone for being very civil as we discuss the results of the case and any possible further actions by both parties. The responses were largely well-restrained and polite, which we appreciate.

On with the discussion!

--NickTLC

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All of the related news articles can be found on this feed:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/archives/category/389
The most recent articles are on the conclusion and findings of fact and statements made by the parties involved here:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/9/8...ttlement-ruling
and here:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/9/8...ng-trial-ruling
You can view the evidence and legal proceedings here at Justia.com

Past threads:
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part I
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part II
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part III
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part IV
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part V
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part VI
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part VII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part VIII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part IX
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part X
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XI
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XIII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XIV
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XV

"The Impact of this suit on Fandom"
"The Media & JKR/WB vs RDR Books"
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davidenglish
post Sep 10 2008, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(Eir de Scania @ Sep 10 2008, 09:55 PM) *
QUOTE
Tummons stressed the high level of original material in the travel book. "It was done under [Vander Ark's] own initiative, with his own camera, own film and he wrote the text himself. He has drawn on the names of the Potter books, but that is all. At the head of each chapter of his book Steve Vander Ark has included a short quote from one or other of the Harry Potter series. We've applied in the customary way for permission to include these but that seems unlikely to be granted so we'll no doubt exclude them."

I beg to disagree. If the rest of the book really is all SVA's words and pictures a short introductory quote wouldn't be a problem.
What I think is meant here is that SVA has used HP quotes for chapter headings, just as he's done in the template for the Lexicon website. So, these are actually layout design elements that could be seen as needing permission. It might be possible to use the same quote within the critical context of the work and have it considered fair use, but the moment it becomes a decorative element it isn't.

Of course, the layout described makes me think that this Potter Places book is based on the HPL's Atlas & Gazetteer. And, if Methuen's Peter Tummons has read Judge Patterson's decision, he'll want to reexamine In Search of Harry Potter for unattributed quotations and close paraphrasing.

And, while we're discussing the right to publish, did any of these photographs require permission or a release form. I don't know what photos are in the book, but there are different rules for photographing people, places and things. And, just as we found with fair use, it does matter if the subject is private or public, for profit or not. Tummons seems content to know that SVA himself took the photos. But I was reminded of the prohibition of taking photos when they visited the set of OotP.


This post has been edited by davidenglish: Sep 10 2008, 08:31 PM


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dresdenfiles.fan
post Sep 10 2008, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE
I see on justia that there's a notice of right to appeal bundled, but I only get the one page on download. Have you seen the notice anywhere else?
This will be a simple attachment telling the parties that they have the right to appeal and that they have 'X' amount of days in which to file appeal. Sometimes that amount can be as little as 12-24 hours to file, sometimes 5 calendar days, but generally in civil law you're given 14 days from the ruling to file an appeal.

The time to file appeal is not extendable so whatever the timeframe set forth in the 'right to appeal', the notice of appeal must be filed by that timeframe or the court's decision stands and they lose their chance to appeal.

Of course, if the loser at trial does file an appeal then the winner can file cross-appeal. An example would be the defense saying 'we shouldn't have to pay the awards damages or the court costs', then the plaintiff can cross-appeal and say 'hey, we think that they should pay us 30 times more than the court previously stipulated, plus our attorney's fees, and the court costs.'

Then there is the fact that the winner, the Plaintiffs in this case, could possibly appeal the ruling. This is very rare, but it has been done before {it's permissable under civil law}, and in one instance the appellent actually won the appeal and a much larger monetary settlement than the lower court had granted them.

I don't see JKR filing appeal though. The money wasn't the issue, the copyright was, and her copyrights were upheld by the court via the permanent enjoinment of the Lexi-book.


This post has been edited by dresdenfiles.fan: Sep 10 2008, 08:34 PM


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JohannMdlAmerica
post Sep 10 2008, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE(davidenglish @ Sep 10 2008, 06:58 PM) *
And, while we're discussing the right to publish, did any of these photographs require permission or a release form. I don't know what photos are in the book, but there are different rules for photographing people, places and things. And, just as we found with fair use, it does matter if the subject is private or public, for profit or not. Tummons seems content to know that SVA himself took the photos. But I was reminded of the prohibition of taking photos when they visited the set of OotP.

DE
Don't know British commercial photography, but where I do Boy Scout volunteer work in the US, every parent signs a photographic model release as a condition of their child participating in the program. It ensures that if even a dime is made off the image, the subject cannot come back and make claim on it.

QUOTE(dresdenfiles.fan)
I don't see JKR filing appeal though. The money wasn't the issue, the copyright was, and her copyrights were upheld by the court via the permanent enjoinment of the Lexi-book.

You and I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, I think JKR said as much on the courthouse steps during the trial.


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Pepper-Imp
post Sep 10 2008, 09:54 PM
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dresdenfiles.fan - Thanks for this information.

QUOTE(davidenglish @ Sep 10 2008, 08:58 PM) *
What I think is meant here is that SVA has used HP quotes for chapter headings, just as he's done in the template for the Lexicon website. So, these are actually layout design elements that could be seen as needing permission. It might be possible to use the same quote within the critical context of the work and have it considered fair use, but the moment it becomes a decorative element it doesn't.
Really? huh.gif This surprises me. Why would they need permission for introductory quotations to the chapters?
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sdcurtis
post Sep 10 2008, 10:10 PM
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Well this is interesting. Now Harvard has joined the ranks of being on the board of the Right to write fund.


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dresdenfiles.fan
post Sep 10 2008, 10:43 PM
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Am I the only one to find it funny how people who were taking vicarious thrill at the fact that JKR was awarded the statutory damages of just $6000 are now seemingly shocked and outraged to discover that that's not ALL the Defendant has to pay?

According to some it's terrible PR for Rowling to seek to be recompensed for expenditures and court costs, not to mention possible seeking of attorneys fees. Why? Because apparently it would be going after the people who lost the case, people who are also 'poor'. Um...what? Loser's pay up, that's the way it works.

I've no sympathy that they're 'poor'. They could have worked with JKRs attorneys. They could have not ignored the C & Ds. They could have made changes to the book. They could have avoided this entire lawsuit. They could have followed the judge's softly worded encouragement to the parties to 'talk and seek to find a way to work things out' without his having to make a ruling. They did none of this. Steve was willing to talk about changes. JK et al wanted changes. RDR was entirely silent on the matter. That wasn't JKs fault, it wasn't even Steve's fault. It was the Defendant's fault.

Oddly, had the Plaintiffs lost, I don't think we'd be hearing the 'it's not fair to make the loser's pay those expenses' argument. In fact, I'm fairly certain there'd be gleeful crowing galore.

Of course, the parties can still come to an amicable agreement amongst themselves, but that requires the loser's to 'work' with the the 'winners', something they've consistently failed to do.


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luna'sceiling
post Sep 10 2008, 11:04 PM
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Oddly enough, dresden this is what the what the statute says:

QUOTE
In any civil action under this title, the court in its discretion may allow the recovery of full costs by or against any party other than the United States or an officer thereof. Except as otherwise provided by this title, the court may also award a reasonable attorney’s fee to the prevailing party as part of the costs.


Now, I will say that knowing this makes the notion that RDR may have to pay additional costs at the court's discretion completely understandable. I would say that reaction from some came from misinformation that was being spread such as the idea that fees like $475,000 for a single memorandum might be tacked on to the $6750 the judge thought was reasonable for the infringement. I would say the notion that paying for unreliable charts that never made it into evidence as well as their preparation might be a bit galling. I would say paying for testimony and prep work of expert witnesses the likes of Diana Birchall, who never made it to court because of her squeeing over her own derivative work of the long dead Jane Austen, would be a bit intolerable. Some rather exorbitant figures were being bandied about here and elsewhere as if they were a given. The key words in the statute, IMO, are may and at the court's discretion. If Judge Patterson awards costs and fees I am sure they will be reasonable.


This post has been edited by Harry's Horntail: Sep 11 2008, 12:38 AM


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dresdenfiles.fan
post Sep 10 2008, 11:19 PM
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Thanks, luna'sceiling, I've seen and read Title 17. The fact remains is that as the normal course of law, unless otherwise stipulated by the judge, the loser pay the costs.

Regarding attorneys fees, if those are sought to be covered, they may or may not be awarded, but generally submitted to the court in the form of itemized lists and are quite carefully reviewed by the judge in order to ascertain that they are reasonable and appropriate and not outrageously exhorbitant, so I agree with you in part anyway.

I do still find it exceeding funny that the loser's shouldn't have to pay because they're 'poor'.


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Henrietta
post Sep 10 2008, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Sep 10 2008, 09:04 PM) *
Now, I will say that knowing this makes the notion that RDR may have to pay additional costs at the court's discretion completely understandable. I would say that reaction from some came from misinformation that was being spread such as the idea that fees like $475,000 for a single memorandum might be tacked on to the $6750 the judge thought was reasonable for the infringement. I would say the notion that paying for unreliable charts that never made it into evidence as well as their preparation might be a bit galling. I would say paying for testimony and prep work of expert witnesses the likes of Melanie Bradley who never made it to court because of her squeeing over her own derivative work of the long dead Jane Austen would be a bit intolerable. Some rather exorbitant figures were being bandied about here and elsewhere as if they were a given. The key words in the statute, IMO, are may and at the court's discretion. If Judge Patterson awards costs and fees I am sure they will be reasonable.

To be honest I thought the damages ruling was another wily effort of Judge Patterson to avoid an avenue of appeal. Had he given enormous damages to the Big Boys - WB and JKR - the howls of outrage would have been deafening. By keeping the damages to the minimum it shuts down one more avenue the defense could exploit.

Look, JKR has been nothing but dignified and reasonable in all of this. Her lawyers made every - EVERY- effort to communicate with RDR. She has allowed all sorts of books about Harry Potter - being anything but the vicious, greedy copyright hog she's painted. Her statement after the ruling was excellent - unemotional, regretful and generous. She has done NOTHING wrong. RDR on the other hand has taken his fifteen minutes of infamy and tried to spin it out into some chimera of freedom of speech mated with copyright evangalism. He has made ridiculous, even unintelligent statements and has allied himself with people whose end goals are not in his own best interests. The question is, why? What does RDR really want out of this? Does he hope the publicity will drag his tiny publishing house into the spotlight and give him an edge in the cut-throat world of publishing? Because an appeal at this point won't serve that purpose.

Does he really see himself as a poster child for freedom of speech? Because the judge's ruling made it quite clear that most of the speech in question was actually JKR's.

Does he hope that this case will somehow topple years of copyright precedent in the court systems and blaze an entirely new trail? The judge honestly did his best to squash that idea as gently and as thoroughly as possible.

So let's look at it again.

He tried to publish a book without consulting the copyright holder at all - no letter, no effort to discuss it, no courteous mention that it was in the works. Instead he marketed it like a back-alley entrepreneur with a rain coat full of knock off watches. A nudge, a wink, a don't really mention this out loud or JKR might get wind of it. Is this the action of someone who had the moral high ground?

When caught, when word gets out and a simple letter of inquiry is sent does he defend his book? Does he display it to the copyright holder proudly, outlining how it is a genuinely fair-use production? No. He ignore the letters. He refuses to engage - again, if he had the right of it what do his actions say.

By doing this, by ignoring the requests for information (or rudely suggesting they simply print off the on-line lexicon, which frankly was an incredibly self-destructive thing to do), by refusing to respond to the C&D's he left WB and JKR with two options. They could allow the Lexicon in its unknown form to be printed - knowing that the on-line version infringed violently on copyright - or they could go to court. What was the moral, responsible thing to do as an author? As a member of the creative community?

Now, having been proven wrong on all four points, having the judge state that the paltry bit of original work in the book has no intelligent humor and no academic value; having dragged WB and JKR into court and refused to compromise or settle why on earth is it not a reasonable conclusion to have RDR pay for the costs that their own actions have incurred?
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davidenglish
post Sep 10 2008, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Sep 11 2008, 05:04 AM) *
QUOTE
In any civil action under this title, the court in its discretion may allow the recovery of full costs by or against any party other than the United States or an officer thereof. Except as otherwise provided by this title, the court may also award a reasonable attorney's fee to the prevailing party as part of the costs.


Now, I will say that knowing this makes the notion that RDR may have to pay additional costs at the court's discretion completely understandable. I would say that reaction from some came from misinformation that was being spread such as the idea that fees like $475,000 for a single memorandum might be tacked on to the $6750 the judge thought was reasonable for the infringement. I would say the notion that paying for unreliable charts that never made it into evidence as well as their preparation might be a bit galling. I would say paying for testimony and prep work of expert witnesses the likes of Melanie Bradley who never made it to court because of her squeeing over her own derivative work of the long dead Jane Austen would be a bit intolerable. Some rather exorbitant figures were being bandied about here and elsewhere as if they were a given. The key words in the statute, IMO, are may and at the court's discretion. If Judge Patterson awards costs and fees I am sure they will be reasonable.
Well, I'm not sure why you think the judge should discount based on evidence that was found lacking. He already said that the poor quality of the Lexicon did not disqualify it as a reference work. Fair is fair.

It has already been discussed by those who know the workings of the court that actual attorney's fees are not awarded. A formula is used based on the number of appearances and the length of the trial and such. Nevertheless, it will still come to more than ten times the statuatory damages, you can be sure.



This post has been edited by Iheartprofessorsnape: Sep 11 2008, 12:37 AM


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