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WB/JKR vs. RDR Part 17
NickTLC
post Sep 25 2008, 01:52 PM
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Time for a new thread!

It's been great that by and large everyone's been respectful and thoughtful when posting. We'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone to avoid attacking your fellow posters here, but rather to attack the argument and discuss the case and things related to it.

--The Leaky Crew

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All of the related news articles can be found on this feed:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/archives/category/389
The most recent articles are on the conclusion and findings of fact and statements made by the parties involved and the possibility of an appeal here:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/9/1...eal-to-be-filed
and here:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/9/8...ng-trial-ruling
and finally here:
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/9/8...ttlement-ruling

You can view the evidence and legal proceedings here at Justia.com

Past threads:
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part I
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part II
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part III
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part IV
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part V
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part VI
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part VII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part VIII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part IX
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part X
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XI
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XIII
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XIV
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XV
WB/JKR vs. RDR Part XVI

"The Impact of this suit on Fandom"
"The Media & JKR/WB vs RDR Books"


This post has been edited by NickTLC: Sep 25 2008, 01:56 PM
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Hinoema
post Sep 29 2008, 05:21 AM
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I said 'copypasta' because that's what happens when you copy a link via MS Word or similar and it turns the spaces into gibberish, making the link useless.

Anyway...

QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Sep 29 2008, 06:01 AM) *
Ok how about from her website the first day of the suit:


There's a difference between a specific statement that she would not authorise a specific book and a general desire to control a market of a certain type.

As far as the fair use argument, I'm only going to make one point that keeps getting missed: SVA had every opportunity to publish an encyclopedia type book, provided it was a fair use of the source material. Jo even said so. It wasn't, so he was disallowed.

QUOTE
Any ruling that would expand the monopoly of the author (the derivative right is protected by copyright law if you recall) would take away some of the First Amendment limitations wouldn't it?


Possibly. However, this ruling was as I expected and did not expand anything. The only nominally grey area was the decision on whether the material was derivative, a decision that had no impact on the work's degree of infringement. Using a generality to describe a specific case to which the generality did not apply does the RTW no favors and makes them look bombastic.

QUOTE(article)
The short answer to the question is that the relationship between copyright and free speech rights has not become a part of legal culture. The primary reason almost surely is that judges view copyright against the backdrop of property law. As one court said, “The first amendment is not a license to trammel on legally recognized rights in intellectual property.” Such a position almost surely forecloses a recognition that while copyright protects the author's exclusive right to publish, the First Amendment protects the citizen's right to read what is published.


Well, yes, and? That's sort of stating the obvious. However, the author has a right to exclusively market their own property. Other authors only have limited- fair use compliant- rights to market works which use the same material. The LM exceeded fair use and marketed too much of Jo's material. That's why it was found to be infringing.

This insistence that this case was about a violation of anyone's first amendment rights seems unnecessary when there is already a mechanism in place for defining exceptions to and dealing with apparent violations of an author's rights- fair use. The only 'reason' I see for this approach is that US citizens have a tendency to react without thinking when anyone plays the 'unconstitutional' card, and the more ambiguous connection between copyrights and the constitution allows for greater hyperbole on the part of those who find fair use overly restrictive. (*cough*FUP*cough*)

QUOTE
Did she or did she not ask Emerson at Mugglenet to not write an encyclopedia because she intended to? If it is a gross distortion and a lie that she wanted to stop encyclopedias why did she make an issue of her refusal to license one because she intended to write her own throughout her declaration in Filing 24? Wasn't her declaration made under oath?


She didn't want to stop all encyclopedias in general. She wanted (from what I see) to stop the specific ones that would lessen the value of a project she specifically planned for herself. She had every right to ask. Mugglenet had every right to refuse- they chose not to. SVA had every right to refuse. He did, but did not do the work needed to ensure the work was a fair use. That is why it was enjoined, not because of Jo's wishes regarding specific competition. That was her motivation for asking. It was not the court's justification for the injunction. The former was a personal request from one author to another. The latter was the law.

Jo requested that Mugglenet stop their project as a favor. She requested that SVA stop because the evidence (the site) led her to believe that he used too much of her property to be a fair use, and her request to look at the MS before publishing to see if it actually did- a common professional courtesy in publishing- was refused. Seeking an injunction was a perfectly legitimate alternative, under the circumstances. Spinning it as anything else is only making a tempest in a teacup and giving those who would cloud the issue by invoking amendments fuel to rail against existing fair use statutes.


This post has been edited by Hinoema: Sep 29 2008, 05:28 AM


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Posts in this topic
- NickTLC   WB/JKR vs. RDR Part 17   Sep 25 2008, 01:52 PM
- - wordsaremagic   Okay my friends, just a friendly reminder that we ...   Sep 28 2008, 01:11 AM
- - Hinoema   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Sep 28 2008, 05...   Sep 28 2008, 01:26 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(Hinoema @ Sep 28 2008, 02:26 AM) QU...   Sep 28 2008, 03:29 AM
- - Hinoema   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Sep 28 2008, 08...   Sep 28 2008, 05:34 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(Hinoema @ Sep 28 2008, 05:34 AM) Fi...   Sep 29 2008, 01:01 AM
- - cbm   This case was not about Steve Vander Ark's fre...   Sep 28 2008, 09:06 AM
- - rotfang07   Gosh I never thought language could come under as ...   Sep 28 2008, 01:09 PM
- - davidenglish   Well, I'm sure Roger Rapoport is a very honora...   Sep 28 2008, 03:36 PM
- - cbm   Rotfang, I agree with almost everything you say...   Sep 28 2008, 03:47 PM
- - rotfang07   Nice to know someone agrees with me cbm!! ...   Sep 28 2008, 06:35 PM
- - Hinoema   QUOTEVander Ark, who is in England working on a tr...   Sep 28 2008, 07:08 PM
|- - Pepper-Imp   I'll take a stab at interpretation. My inpu...   Sep 28 2008, 09:44 PM
- - davidenglish   I agree, Hinoema. All the negotiating was done on ...   Sep 28 2008, 08:16 PM
- - JohannMdlAmerica   ??? Could SVA's copyrighting of the Lexicon W...   Sep 28 2008, 09:02 PM
|- - dduane   QUOTE(JohannMdlAmerica @ Sep 28 2008, 10...   Sep 30 2008, 08:03 AM
|- - Lilly   QUOTE(Hinoema @ Sep 29 2008, 08:21 PM) Sh...   Sep 29 2008, 07:37 AM
- - davidenglish   Hinoema is right, luna'sceiling. JKR does not ...   Sep 29 2008, 07:19 AM
- - JohannMdlAmerica   First, nothing on justia this morning. The clock ...   Sep 29 2008, 08:38 AM
- - rotfang07   I have looked at Justia File 24, Jo Rowling’s decl...   Sep 29 2008, 10:29 AM
- - cbm   The key word in JK Rowling's statement is ...   Sep 29 2008, 10:41 AM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(cbm @ Sep 29 2008, 07:41 AM) The ke...   Sep 29 2008, 11:12 AM
- - davidenglish   Well, I believe the co-authors didn't think pu...   Sep 29 2008, 11:38 AM
- - Magic_What?   okay here is a crazy thought why not break the ...   Sep 29 2008, 03:24 PM
- - sdcurtis   I'm reading this article "Defining and De...   Sep 29 2008, 05:43 PM
- - cbm   My favorite was "Warner Bros. et al. v. RDR B...   Sep 29 2008, 06:11 PM
|- - JohannMdlAmerica   QUOTE(cbm @ Sep 29 2008, 05:11 PM) My fav...   Sep 29 2008, 06:34 PM
- - rotfang07   Thanks cbm and sdcurtis for the link and article. ...   Sep 29 2008, 06:40 PM
- - cbm   I think the appeal notice will come on the last da...   Sep 29 2008, 06:55 PM
- - JohannMdlAmerica   If that happens, the next act of Kabuki Theater wi...   Sep 29 2008, 07:09 PM
- - Hinoema   sdcurtis- it's obvious that the FUP is spinnin...   Sep 30 2008, 01:53 AM
- - rotfang07   Ah, Richard Harris JD. What are we to make of this...   Sep 30 2008, 07:42 AM
- - Hinoema   Thanks, DDuane! That's encouraging for tho...   Sep 30 2008, 08:31 AM
- - linden swallow   Updated! SVA will never answer everything that...   Oct 1 2008, 10:02 AM
|- - Magic_What?   Here is another to add to the list: When did you f...   Oct 1 2008, 09:05 PM
- - davidenglish   Well, only one more week for RDR to file their not...   Oct 1 2008, 08:50 PM
- - JohannMdlAmerica   DE, Only one comment, Sir: RDR has but a week to...   Oct 1 2008, 08:57 PM
- - Pepper-Imp   News on the upcoming HP documentary We Are Wizards...   Oct 2 2008, 12:02 AM
|- - cbm   QUOTE(Pepper-Imp @ Oct 2 2008, 01:02...   Oct 2 2008, 10:24 AM
- - Hinoema   QUOTEQUOTE(Josh Koury) "We Are Wizards,...   Oct 2 2008, 04:47 AM
- - davidenglish   Well, I think the Lexicon Lawsuit is just being us...   Oct 2 2008, 07:29 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 2 2008, 08:29 AM...   Oct 2 2008, 03:41 PM
- - rotfang07   Thanks Pepper-Imp re Ansible link. I wonder who ...   Oct 2 2008, 09:06 AM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTEIt is too bad that RDR did not want to work w...   Oct 2 2008, 10:51 AM
|- - JohannMdlAmerica   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 2 2008, 10...   Oct 2 2008, 11:14 AM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 2 2008, 04...   Oct 2 2008, 01:25 PM
|- - cbm   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 2 2008, 11...   Oct 2 2008, 02:32 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 2 2008, 04...   Oct 2 2008, 03:48 PM
- - davidenglish   luna'sceiling, I fear loose livejournal lips s...   Oct 2 2008, 05:55 PM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 2 2008, 06:55 PM...   Oct 2 2008, 06:57 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 2 2008, 11...   Oct 2 2008, 07:26 PM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 2 2008, 08:26 PM...   Oct 2 2008, 07:31 PM
- - davidenglish   Come now, luna'sceiling. You don't think R...   Oct 2 2008, 11:42 PM
- - luna'sceiling   davidenglish Ah so it is as I suspected, this was...   Oct 2 2008, 11:54 PM
- - Hinoema   QUOTE(luna'scieling)QUOTE(DE)And, if the rumou...   Oct 2 2008, 11:59 PM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(Hinoema @ Oct 2 2008, 11:59 PM) At ...   Oct 3 2008, 12:16 AM
- - Hinoema   If you like, I'm not that fussed. We should al...   Oct 3 2008, 12:29 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(Hinoema @ Oct 3 2008, 12:29 AM) If ...   Oct 3 2008, 01:13 AM
- - Hinoema   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 3 2008, 07...   Oct 3 2008, 04:18 AM
- - davidenglish   You know, I've come to think that, whatever RD...   Oct 3 2008, 09:31 AM
- - rotfang07   It takes two to reach a settlement. SVA was never ...   Oct 3 2008, 10:37 AM
|- - Essence_of_Insanity   QUOTE(rotfang07 @ Oct 3 2008, 10:37 AM) ...   Oct 3 2008, 12:35 PM
- - rotfang07   Thanks, Essence_of_Insanity, for the links; my bra...   Oct 3 2008, 01:24 PM
|- - sdcurtis   rotfang07, there's also this that I took of th...   Oct 3 2008, 06:53 PM
- - davidenglish   Well, I haven't reread that article since it f...   Oct 3 2008, 02:16 PM
- - rotfang07   Thanks sdcurtis, I watched the vid of presumably M...   Oct 3 2008, 10:30 PM
- - davidenglish   I certainly think this case has been marked by exc...   Oct 4 2008, 09:21 AM
- - dresdenfiles.fan   Sadly, it's all down to 'She approved the ...   Oct 4 2008, 10:16 AM
- - rotfang07   I have to agree with davidenglish’s assessment: Q...   Oct 4 2008, 10:35 AM
- - Essence_of_Insanity   For anyone who's interested, RDR has filed a m...   Oct 4 2008, 12:25 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(Essence_of_Insanity @ Oct 4 2008, 06...   Oct 4 2008, 01:40 PM
- - rotfang07   Document 94: “Defendant requests this extension s...   Oct 4 2008, 01:58 PM
- - dresdenfiles.fan   Well, this should put to paid about whether 's...   Oct 4 2008, 02:18 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(dresdenfiles.fan @ Oct 4 2008, 08:1...   Oct 4 2008, 04:40 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(roonwit @ Oct 4 2008, 02:40 PM) QUO...   Oct 4 2008, 05:05 PM
|- - rotfang07   QUOTE(roonwit @ Oct 4 2008, 10:40 PM) I c...   Oct 4 2008, 07:11 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(rotfang07 @ Oct 5 2008, 01:11 AM) S...   Oct 5 2008, 03:47 AM
- - rotfang07   Thanks Essence_of_Insanity for the link; forgot to...   Oct 4 2008, 02:54 PM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 4 2008, 01:40 PM...   Oct 4 2008, 03:42 PM
- - dresdenfiles.fan   LOL. It does say, "so that it may continue t...   Oct 4 2008, 04:33 PM
- - dresdenfiles.fan   QUOTE(roonwit)I think WB/JKR might be prepared to ...   Oct 4 2008, 04:56 PM
- - davidenglish   Does Stanford want to appeal or not? And, frankly,...   Oct 4 2008, 08:31 PM
- - Silver Ink Pot   QUOTE(Henrietta)There's the obvious point of p...   Oct 4 2008, 09:39 PM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(dresdenfiles.fan @ Oct 4 2008, 04:3...   Oct 4 2008, 09:50 PM
|- - cbm   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 4 2008, 09...   Oct 4 2008, 11:39 PM
|- - Pepper-Imp   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 4 2008, 10...   Oct 5 2008, 01:18 AM
- - davidenglish   Ah, the mythic November meeting where everything a...   Oct 5 2008, 01:06 AM
- - Weird One   It seems to me that the extension of time for appe...   Oct 5 2008, 02:28 AM
- - Hinoema   QUOTE(Weird One @ Oct 5 2008, 08:28 AM) I...   Oct 5 2008, 03:21 AM
- - rotfang07   Wow luna’ceiling, I must have taken a déjà vu pill...   Oct 5 2008, 05:02 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(rotfang07 @ Oct 5 2008, 11:02 AM) r...   Oct 5 2008, 07:04 AM
- - rotfang07   roonwit; fair enough, so assuming the lawyers agre...   Oct 5 2008, 07:21 AM
- - Hinoema   I have a feeling SVA's comment on whether revi...   Oct 5 2008, 07:32 AM
- - rotfang07   Hinoema; I'm beginning to think roonwit is on ...   Oct 5 2008, 08:39 AM
- - davidenglish   Well, one thing's for sure, the 30 day extensi...   Oct 5 2008, 08:40 AM
- - rotfang07   (surprise, surprise) I see it completely different...   Oct 5 2008, 10:23 AM
- - Eir de Scania   A LexiBook manuscript meeting Fair Use standard wo...   Oct 5 2008, 11:02 AM
5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 > » 


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