Wize Wednesday in The Corner Booth

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*** Topic is: Wize Wednesday Chat - Snape's Life Dept. Is it a plot device, or is there more to it?
*** Topic set by DorisTLC [Sun Apr 9 13:10:46 2006]
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<DorisTLC> Hi Stewie!
<stewiegryf> hey
<stewiegryf> i just realized that. i'm out is california, though, so i'm not really used to using EST
<stewiegryf> and math is just too hard right now
<DorisTLC> I'm in Texas - I'm just getting used to it!
<DorisTLC> haha - I hate math!
<DorisTLC> I'm good at English and History - math is poo!
<stewiegryf> i actually enjoyed math in high school, but have yet to take a math class in college
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<stewiegryf> Which is a little weird seeing as I'm a science major
<DorisTLC> I was an English major - very litle math
<stewiegryf> Hi Equivocal!
<DorisTLC> I took a graduate course in statistics - and in astrology! That was hard!
<DorisTLC> Hi Equivocal - we're just starting
<stewiegryf> eek, I'd imagine.
<DorisTLC> What are you majoring in Stewie?
<stewiegryf> Well, technically I don't have a real major. I'm in a six Pharmacy program in which I don't really recieve a BS, just a Doctor of Pharmacy Degree
<stewiegryf> It combines three years of undergrad and three years of pharmacy school
<DorisTLC> Ooo - I have a neighbor who is a pharmacist. That is a hard program! She was always telling me about school - loads of math!
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<stewiegryf> Yeah, but the thing is I took a lot of AP Math in High School, so I can skip out on the college classes. But yeah, there is a lot of math in the profession.
<DorisTLC> That is always nice
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<DorisTLC> We'll start in a few minutes - most people get in here right after we start!
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<DorisTLC> Hi Montims
<stewiegryf> I'll have to leave in a few minutes though. I'm starting a bowling league tonight!
<DorisTLC> Ooo - I love to bowl! I'm horrible - but I love it
<montims> hmmm - I was going to sneak in quietly and just blend, but everybody stopped talking... Oh hi Doris! *waves*
<DorisTLC> HAHA - you can't sneak in here! LOL
<montims> So I have no idea re the topic - I was hoping to reply to other people's comments - any hints you can give???
<DorisTLC> Yeah - when there are more people here I'll start asking you guys questions - then it just moves
<montims> Ah
<montims> I'll just sit quietly in the corner then...
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<DorisTLC> Hi LJ!
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<LJ> Hi
<Narya> Hi there ..
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<stewiegryf> Now more people are starting to join. You can blend more easily montims! ;)
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<montims> Yay!!! Had you guessed I'm a little nervous with strangers?
<LJ> I'll start giving the link out smile
<tbunny> Hi!
<stewiegryf> Don't worry. We're all nice and mature here.
<Narya> No strangers in the Lounge - we're all friends here!!
<stewiegryf> most of the time
<tbunny> nice and mature? well I suppose if you ignore what goes on in the PC threads...
<DorisTLC> We're one happy family!
<tbunny>
<stewiegryf> that's why i said most of the time tbunny
<stewiegryf> trust me, i know all about those PotterCast threads
<DorisTLC> I've read them all! That is a busy place!
<Narya> I need to download the latest one and listen to it ... haven't caught up with it yet
<stewiegryf> me, who's designing the "Melissa and the Anelli's" myspace page
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<MonieLou> 'ello!
<Narya> Hi there!
<MonieLou> Hey Jules
<MonieLou> How's it been lately?
<Narya> Hiya Monica
<tbunny> hahahah are you? I'm so behind on PC threads and PC. I have no idea what's happening in that "little" corner right now...
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<Narya> Busy, busy ... how are you?
<tbunny> hey mich!
<MonieLou> Pretty good. Tons of exams at school at the mo'
<cairadawn> Hey everyone
<Narya> Best of luck with those!!
<stewiegryf> hehe..."little". good one tbunny
<Narya> Hi!
<MonieLou> Thanks! I hope I do good. Hi, Cairadawn
<michpotter> hey tams
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<cairadawn> Hi tams
<magicmeg8> hi smile
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<gingin77> sweet
<MonieLou> When do we start talking about the topic??
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<MonieLou> Hey gingin
<DorisTLC> We're going to start pretty quick!
<DorisTLC> I had to get a drink
<FlamingHorcri> I LOVE when it tells me I'm invalid
<MonieLou> Goodie
<MonieLou> In the meanwhile... posting!
<LJ> haha, most of the people that just joined are one's that I sent the link to
<LJ> I'm an awesome plugger
<gingin77> yeah LJ you rock
<Narya> I should go and get a drink as well ... brb
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<DorisTLC> Good Job! We'll make you leaky's Press rep!
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<MonieLou> QUESTION: How many people can this chat hold?
<LJ> I'm gonna finish eating, brb
<DorisTLC> It can hold quite a few - last time I asked PHPNick had it set high
<magicmeg8> k laurie
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*** mode/#lounge [+o mlwl] by Snuffles
<MonieLou> Hey EYE-la
<aixla> Hey guys. I can only stay for a few ... got class.
<DorisTLC> We'll get started on the topic in 5 minutes if you guys want to chat
<gingin77> cool
<gingin77> yes i got my color
<michpotter> I'm in class right now, naughty me
<aixla> Of course I miss the important part ...
<MonieLou> Did I get the pronounciation right, Aixla?
<DorisTLC> This give you all a chance to just say hello!
<aixla> *LOL* Unfortunately my class only has 3 people in it, so I won't get away with posting there!
<mlwl> hello! smile
* mlwl waves
<stewiegryf> good job mich!
<MonieLou> Hey there!
<mlwl> lol
<Narya> *waves back*
<DorisTLC> Tape the class! We're more fun!
* MonieLou testing
<aixla> Yes you did, Monie. Thanks
<MonieLou> Def.
<michpotter> lol i'm trying to pay attention to both this and my class
<tbunny> mich! naughty naughty.... won't your teacher notice?
<MonieLou> Hope not!
<stewiegryf> what class are we interrupting?
<michpotter> no, i'm on the computers when she can't see my screen
<aixla> Like being in class with Professor Binns .
<tbunny> you in social studies? send lily in here, i'm too lazy to PM her
<michpotter> my multi media class
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<aixla> Hola
<tbunny> oh right. cool
<elizabeth18> I have a keyboarding class that is the most boring class in the entire world.
<michpotter> i sent lils an email saying to get in here
<mlwl> sounds like it!
<gingin77> hahahahahaha....... chatting during class
<magicmeg8> keyboarding would be so cool smile
<aixla> KeyBOREding
<magicmeg8> lol
<mlwl> keyboarding as in typing?
<mlwl> or piano?
<elizabeth18> yep
<michpotter> i know
<aixla> I have a graduate level practicum ...
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<elizabeth18> typing
<elizabeth18> it's painful
<elizabeth18> the class, not the typing itself
<gingin77> well... i just got out of my last final a little while ago....
<mlwl> sad
<gingin77> i think i failed it
<aixla> Especially if you spend alot of time on the boards and in chats. You learn to type real fast ...
<magicmeg8> lol ah i see
<aixla> Uh oh
<michpotter> yeah
<FlamingHorcri> Failing is the new passing.
<elizabeth18> i had my first AP test today... AP Calc
<stewiegryf> i'll be feelig your pain in about a week gingin
<gingin77> awww
<NickTLC> So, what do you guys think of the topic? SNAPE'S LIFE DEBT
<gingin77> stewie....
<aixla> Sometimes we're harder on ourselves than we need to be. Think Hermione and her OWLS
<stewiegryf> oo, AP calc is a killer
<gingin77> um....
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* MonieLou gazes around intimidated
<michpotter> lily
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<FlamingHorcri> I think that it's paid
<accio_lily> Halloooooe!
<michpotter> welcome
<FlamingHorcri> and done
<Skillet9886> hi all
<mlwl> hi lily!
<FlamingHorcri> but I think Snape lived with it so long that he's screwed up
<mlwl> room 13 misses you!
<Narya> I don't think that it's paid ... not in an ethical sense ...
<gingin77> i dont agree flaming
<mlwl> come back! hehe
<accio_lily> aww! yay!
<stewiegryf> don't be intimidated, just jump right in!
<DorisTLC> Hey guys! We'll get started inone minute! Let's finish with our hellos
<magicmeg8> i definitely think the life-debt is more than a plot device
<gingin77> hey nick asked us
<magicmeg8> ok
<FlamingHorcri> Hey Nick started it ;)
<FlamingHorcri> *points at nick*
<aixla> Yeah Nick, causing trouble
<magicmeg8> lol
<accio_lily> Sorry... I'll hget back on-topic
<Narya> Poor Nick!!
<FlamingHorcri> blame the boy!
<elizabeth18> hello, howdy, hola, bonjour to everyone (I don't hello in any other languages, sorry)
<aixla> Get back on the Off topic topic
<elizabeth18> *don't know hello
<gingin77> i like the howdy
<Mokey> hello everybody
<elizabeth18> howdy it is
<Narya> Hi Mokey
<michpotter> brb guys, paying attention to class for a sec
<gingin77> but you have to add a ya'll to it
<FlamingHorcri> heheh how about "sup yo!"
<stewiegryf> aloha
<FlamingHorcri> haha
<gingin77> howdy ya'll
<mlwl> life debt...... Personally, I'll jump right in & say I think snape is going to die
<aixla> Or WAZZUP?
<elizabeth18> wazzup being my personal pet peeve
<montims> hasn't he saved Harry's life a few times already? And he didn't kill him - hasn't he paid?
* mlwl hides from the snapeophiles
<tbunny> wait... are we on or off topic right now?
<accio_lily> I'm in favour of Snape dying as well, although I think he is 'good'
<mlwl> welllllll
<gingin77> Ahh... but thats where the discussion comes in...
<elizabeth18> depends, tbunny
<aixla> off still
<FlamingHorcri> for all of the times Snape COULD have killed him and didn't
<accio_lily> TAM! (Sorry, last hello, I promise)
<Skillet9886> do you think he's directly saved Harry's life though?
<FlamingHorcri> that's great
<gingin77> in some of our eyes Snape hasnt saved harry
<elizabeth18> on whether you go with Nick or Doris
<mlwl> But is he supposed to?
<gingin77> Harry*
<aixla> Wow, there are alot of people here ...
<cairadawn> I think there alittle of both on topic and off topic
<mlwl> I mean, most eeeeevil characters have that "he's mine or no one's" thing
<Skillet9886> he didn't owe a life debt to Harry, did he? It was to James..
<mlwl> so it's possible snape wasn't allowed
<memyslfnI> I think he will die..
<tbunny> okay. Lily!! >:D<
<aixla> We're on the topic of being off topic
<magicmeg8> lol
<accio_lily> haha
<gingin77> Like the time in book one... It was actualy Hermione who saved Harry, cause she knocked Quirrell over
<Narya> I don't, M ... I think he'll survive to the end
<Skillet9886> Snape was trying to save him though, gingin
<MonieLou> Has it started?
<Mokey> is it a magical rule that life debt passes to next generation or is that just how SNape interprets it
<gingin77> yeah but he technicaly didnt succeed... it was all Hermione
<FlamingHorcri> I think that's how Snape made himself feel better
<mlwl> it would make sense
<elizabeth18> I think so, MonieLou
<MonieLou> I think he wanted to just pay James back
<MonieLou> Thats it
<accio_lily> But he tried... does trying count?
<memyslfnI> oooh! Life Debt..is that the topic?
<MonieLou> He felt he had to
<Skillet9886> I think Snape just didn't want to be in a Potter's debt and decided to pay it back through Harry
<DorisTLC> *Hem Hem* (My teacher voice!) Ok guys - let's talk about SNAPE - and his life dept - just general ideas at first, then Nick and I will add in thoughts and questions - you guys feel free to do the same!
<mlwl> nope trying doesn't count
<gingin77> < doesnt think trying counts
<accio_lily> Agreed, Skillet
<mlwl> "Sorry I ALMOST saved your life there!"
<FlamingHorcri> Okay
<aixla> OK, I've got to go or I'm going to be late. Sorry. My $.02 - Snape is a bad, bad, bad man. That said, I think that he and DD did have something planned. His life will prove crucial in book 7. That's all. Miss you all!
<gingin77> hahahah mlwl
<magicmeg8> lol bye smile
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<accio_lily> bye!
<FlamingHorcri> the fact that it's Snape's fault that Voldemort knew about the prophecy in the first place is more of a debt than he can ever pay back
<MonieLou> Bye Aixla
<memyslfnI> life debt or life dept?
<Narya> I don't think that Snape has fully paid that debt.
<FlamingHorcri> I think that's part of Snape's issue with Harry
<montims> surely he W
<elizabeth18> I think that Snape does not owe Harry a life debt
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<gingin77> i think snape is good...but i dont believe that he has repayed the debt
<elizabeth18> he owed James one
<mlwl> why eliabeth?
<elizabeth18> but now James is dead, so...
<Narya> He owes Harry ....
<michpotter> but it would get passed down
<michpotter> onto harry
<FlamingHorcri> why?
<MonieLou> The life debt can;t be passed to Harry since Harry wasn't the one that he owed it to in the first place
<mlwl> if you didn't succeed, wouldn't it make some sense for it to transfer
<accio_lily> I am still unsure if you can pay life debts through generations, or by passing them through blood (cough)
<elizabeth18> would it get passed down?
<stewiegryf> but he already saved Harry's life in SS
<elizabeth18> why?
<memyslfnI> I see..I agree with Narya..He still owes Harry
<Skillet9886> I don't think Snape owed a life debt for betraying Harry with the prophecy, only for the whomping willow incident with james
<elizabeth18> why would it get passed down?
<DorisTLC> Does it get passed does? Do we say that elsewhere?
<mlwl> when did he?
<MonieLou> Why would something like that be passed down?
<montims> OULD have saved Harry a few times (quidditch matches, screaming shack...) but didn't have to. And he could have killed him at the end...
<gingin77> why cant life debts be passed on
<Mokey> so how powerful is a life debt...if nothing happened to Snape because he didn't repay it to James?
<gingin77> it seems that it has to
<elizabeth18> that's true, Mokey
<mlwl> exactly, mokey!
<magicmeg8> it seems like the only reason snape hasn't killed harry is this life-debt thing ... that's what makes him "good"
<accio_lily> Life debt Pettigrew/Voldemort to Harry (nin reference to blood)
<MonieLou> James died too young, remember that
<Skillet9886> I think there's a lot about the nature of life-debts that we don't know
<elizabeth18> But then there really is no point of a life debt if it just gets passed down because it could be passed down infinately
<gingin77> exactly skillet
<elizabeth18> so nothing would ever happen to the person that owed it
<accio_lily> Next FAQ on JKR.com... Please explain life debts
<NickTLC> Good point Elizabeth
<Skillet9886> I mean, you incur a life-debt when your life is spared by someone else?
<mlwl> LOL, seriously lily!
<magicmeg8> that's true, elizabeth -- there'd be quite a few floating around
<FlamingHorcri> maybe it makes your hair greasy and revolting
<accio_lily> I think so, thus Pettigrew and Harry
<FlamingHorcri> sorry.
<mlwl> HAHAHA horcri
<Mokey> lol Flaming
<FlamingHorcri> Kel
<DorisTLC> !topic Snape's Life Debt - Wize Wednesday Chat topic!
*** Snuffles changed the topic to: Snape's Life Debt - Wize Wednesday Chat topic! (DorisTLC)
<MonieLou> Hehe! Funny
<Skillet9886> but you don't have a life-debt simply for someone saving your life?
<FlamingHorcri> please before I die from being called Flaming lol
<Skillet9886> because Ginny doesn't owe Harry
<gingin77> Maybe its not that the actual life debt passed on to Harry, but its Snape that believes it did
<MonieLou> No, I think it has to run a bit deeper
<Narya> I don't think Snape can be truly free of that life debt so long as he has things on his conscience
<montims> Oh - if he owed James a life debt then James was killed, does that nullify the life debt or does Snape have to punish himself in some way for having failed?
<MonieLou> But then theres the Pettigre debt
<DorisTLC> Then why do you have a life dept? What else needs to be there?
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<elizabeth18> I don't think that anyone who accidentally causes the death of someone else owes that person a life debt
<MonieLou> But then again, Peter had a major connection with Harry
<accio_lily> Does Ginny owe Harry? How is that different from James/Snape?
<Skillet9886> I think Snape was just trying to have all his bases covered by passing on the life-debt to Harry
<gingin77> Wasnt it said that Ginny doenst owe Harry?
<Narya> A moral obligation of some sort. Snape's heart is a closed book
<michpotter> yeah
<MonieLou> Doris, I think there has to be a deeper connection between the two people
<elizabeth18> A moral obligation?
<MonieLou> Like some sort of revenge
<memyslfnI> does anyone wonder if it could be psychological as well? Snape may feel that he has done plenty for Harry already..so he may believe the debt is paid
<FlamingHorcri> Is the term life debt used in the books?
<accio_lily> I'm not sure... This is such a multi-faceted topic
<elizabeth18> Yes, FH
<mlwl> I was just typing the same thing, MMI!
<MonieLou> In both cases of life debts that we've seen, they have been for some sort of revenge
<elizabeth18> in book 3
<NickTLC> Revenge, or just an emotional connection or any sort?
<DorisTLC> I understand that Monilou - I see that too!
<mlwl> (kristin)
<FlamingHorcri> then how do you enforce it?
<accio_lily> Dumbledore says it to Harry, I think, Kel
<Narya> Snape may believe it's paid, but - to me anyway - it's not that simple
<FlamingHorcri> how do you know?
<stewiegryf> What do we really know about life debts? It seems as though we know less about these than we do Fidelius Charms and there are just too many unanswered questions
<MonieLou> I'm thinking Reveger, Nick.
<mlwl> except I was thinking it in the opposite direction....
<magicmeg8> i do wonder at the magical guidelines for a life debt
<FlamingHorcri> doesn't the whole fricken wizarding world owe Harry?
<mlwl> what if the debt is paid
<MonieLou> Its a very powerful thing
<accio_lily> ahhahaha
<memyslfnI> quote from book: "Pettigrew owes his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt...When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... and I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter."
<Skillet9886> I don't think Snape owes Harry a life-debt...only Pettigrew
<gingin77> we know basicly nothing about life debts
<MonieLou> *Revenge
<mlwl> but Snape thinks it isn't yet
<DorisTLC> Could there be a magical dept - between Wizards? Could a life dept work that way?
<elizabeth18> I think that a life debt has to be more deliberate than what happened to the Potters because of Snape.
<magicmeg8> but "a certain bond" doesn't necessarily mean a magical one.
<FlamingHorcri> does motive matter?
<MonieLou> I think so, Horcri
<elizabeth18> that's true
<michpotter> exactly liz
<Mokey> didn't Jo say there was a reason she couldn't tell us more?
<FlamingHorcri> James saved Snape out of guilt
<elizabeth18> it could be just a guilty conscience thing, I suppose
<accio_lily> Agreed, Elizabeth - Otherwise everyone would owe someone in some obscure way
<Skillet9886> does a life-debt work in a similar way to an unbreakable vow? what happens if you just don't repay it?
<mlwl> I agree, eliabeth, BUT I bet Snape felt a bit guilty nonetheless
<mlwl> if you think there is ANY good in him
<FlamingHorcri> Harry saved Pettigrew because he thought it was the right thing to do
<Mokey> so magicmeg do you just think it is a matter of ethics?
<montims> darn it - I've got to go - I'll be back later (do these chats get saved anywhere so I can catch up? bbfn...
<Skillet9886> is a wizard magically obligated to save someone to whom they are in debt if the situation arises?
<FlamingHorcri> and didn't want Sirius to be a murderer
<MonieLou> We don't know that he saved him out of guilt. All we know is that he saved him at the last minute
<Narya> I don't think he did; James saved Snape because it was the right thing to do
<magicmeg8> i'm just not sure mokey
<magicmeg8> i feel like it's not clear enough
<Mokey> me neither
<MonieLou> Hear, hear, Jules!
<magicmeg8> lol
<elizabeth18> I think that if it's a magical bond Snape doesn't owe a life debt at all, but I could see it being a guilty conscience thing
<accio_lily> Because Harry's a good person - that's why he saved Pettigrew
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<Narya> Sirius wouldn't have murdered Snape ...
<mlwl> not intentionally
<mlwl> BUT
<Narya> and Snape knew that
<mlwl> that desn't mean it couldn't happen
<stewiegryf> could life debts work on the conscience of a person? kind of tormenting them in their dreams and subconscious. is that what makes the person repay them? to ease their minds?
<mlwl> werewolves are a different situation
<Narya> Doesn't, no - but Sirius wouldn't have done that
<gingin77> No i really think snape thought sirius did it intentionaly
<mlwl> I think that's part of it
<magicmeg8> are you sure that snape knew sirius wouldn't allow him to be hurt
<NickTLC> That very well could be, stewiegryf
<Mokey> that's a good point stewie
<mlwl> but may be diff in magic world, stewiegryff
<Skillet9886> I think Sirius was a prankster...I really don't think he thought the consequences fully out on that one
<Narya> He probably did at the time - but in his heart of hearts, he knows different
<gingin77> we know Sirius only wanted to freak him out.... but Snape thought he had planned this
<FlamingHorcri> Sending someone to get murdered by a werewolf isn't a prank
<DorisTLC> In this quote on The Lexicon http://www.hp-lexicon.org/magic/old-magic.html they call life-debts as The old magic, also referred to as ancient magic, is magic which is not cast by wizards with wands. It is part of the "magical-ness" of the universe. There are a number of examples:
<elizabeth18> I do think Sirius planned it
<Narya> Sirisu had his heart in the right place
<elizabeth18> I I don't think he thought about the consequences very much
<gingin77> I think it was a prank.. just not a very well thought out one
<Narya> there was always animosity between those two
<mlwl> it doesn't matter- the result is the same!
<elizabeth18> don't know if I agree with you on that, Narya
<gingin77> Sirius just said it in the heat of the moment i think
<Narya> that would never have changed
<mlwl> *oops, didn't MEAN to kill you!*
<magicmeg8> so a life debt can be compared to harry's protection from harry then.
<magicmeg8> from lily, i mean
<Narya> Sirius was just too impulsive
<FlamingHorcri> I'm so sorry I sent you to be mauled by a werewolf
<accio_lily> I don't think Sirius had worked out the conseqenses of his actions
<FlamingHorcri> my bad
<DorisTLC> exactly meg
<magicmeg8> woot.
<NickTLC> Meg--they're related, yes
<magicmeg8> smile
<mlwl> drunk driving still isn't ok
<mlwl> even if you don't think you'll kill anyone!
<FlamingHorcri> But James knew it could kill him
<Skillet9886> Sirius....didn't think everything all the way through
<Narya> Snape was snooping around the school after them
<magicmeg8> i agree skillet
<Narya> He isn't blameless
<Skillet9886> James seems to have been more rational
<FlamingHorcri> and I'm SURE that Sirius told James what he was going to do
<Narya> And he knows it
<elizabeth18> I agree
<DorisTLC> If the dept transfered to HArry, was it repaid when snape kept Lupin away from the trio?
<FlamingHorcri> so in NOT saving him, he'd be responsible
<mlwl> Sirius knew consequences!
<mlwl> he knew Lupin was a werewolf!
<magicmeg8> but murder due to carelessness isn't that much better than intentional murder
<mlwl> maybe he didn't think it through
<elizabeth18> I think that's very possible, Doris
<mlwl> but it is STILL cruel!
<Narya> Sirius knew - and so did Snape
<Skillet9886> I'm not saying he didn't know what would happen
<FlamingHorcri> Um, wasn't that only in the movie?
<FlamingHorcri> I need to read more
<gingin77> Yeah but Sirius really didnt want Snape killed, he just wanted to scare Snape
<michpotter> i don't think he was thinking clearly that night, his best friend had just been murdered
<accio_lily> I don't know if it is - Snape was saving himself jsut as much
<Skillet9886> I'm just saying that he wouldn't have really thought through the effect that it would kill Snape
<elizabeth18> You could be right, FH
<NickTLC> Nah, it was in the books, just to a lesser extent, Kel
<magicmeg8> ok, i get you skillet smile
<Narya> It's more subtle in the books
<stewiegryf> Does it take an act of equal deliberance to repay a life debt as the one that created it?
<mlwl> good question!
<FlamingHorcri> I would think so
<elizabeth18> I think so, yes
<Narya> But Snape is nobody's fool, and he's certainly not put-upon
<accio_lily> I think so, StwieGryf
<DorisTLC> Good question Stewie! That's an essay in itself!
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<accio_lily> *stewie
<gingin77> that is a great question stewie... and i beielve yes
<FlamingHorcri> <--not writing an essay lol
<magicmeg8> lol
<michpotter> i think yes
<accio_lily> haha
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<gingin77> hahahah FH
<Narya> I think the two acts have to be equal, stewie
<elizabeth18> I don't see why it wouldn't be just as deliberate - equal and opposite reaction sort of thing
<MonieLou> But what are the chances of repaying the act, then?
<Narya> The heart and conscience have to be engaged
<FlamingHorcri> I really think that for a person to pay back something like that it needs to be in the same currency....the same reasoning
<magicmeg8> it would make sense if they were equal
<Pottersgrl> hey everyone
<MonieLou> I mean, only so many people are put in a life/death situation more than once in tehur life
<mlwl> I would tend to agree
<FlamingHorcri> if I lend someone 100 dollars......if they pay me back in 100 pesos.....i'm not going to feel paid back
<michpotter> yeah it would meg
<accio_lily> Yes, I agree kel
<stewiegryf> Then I don't think that Snape has ever fully repaid James' debt. Has he ever deliberately gone out of his way to save Harry?
<Pottersgrl> i agree
<magicmeg8> true kel
<MonieLou> No, he hasn
<gingin77> yeah im feelign you FH... the reasoning behind the actions has to be the same
<Pottersgrl> i hate snape
<Narya> That's the great unanswered question, stewie
<Skillet9886> what about Pettigrew trying to convince Voldemort to use someone besides Harry for the rebirthing in book 4? Was that an attempt to repay the life-debt?
<FlamingHorcri> But why is it Snapes' debt to Harry?
<MonieLou> He's just come short all the time
<michpotter> saved harry yes, but gone out of his way to do it, no
<elizabeth18> no, I don't think so, skillet
<elizabeth18> that was all talk and no action
<magicmeg8> from what we know so far, i don't think snape's gone out of his way
<DorisTLC> If it needs to be the same curency - then would Snape saving the kids be equal to James' act?
<stewiegryf> good question kel
<magicmeg8> the only thing he's done is not kill him, just make him miserable
<accio_lily> I think Pettigrew was just trying to make it easier for himself
<Pottersgrl> DD would 've saved harry anyways
<Narya> No, I don't think so, Doris - I think it has to be Harry
<mlwl> that is possible, doris... but I think Snape will save Harry again
<DorisTLC> Good point Narya
<Narya> Peter is trying to save his own skin, as always
<mlwl> regardless of if he wants to
<memyslfnI> Peters fear of LV outweighs his desire to repay the debt...It is not the same iMO
<Narya> Yes, M
<Narya> Peter is a coward
<DorisTLC> If he wants too - do we think James wanted to save Snape?
<Narya> Yes
<magicmeg8> i agree with that memyslfni
<Skillet9886> did James really go that far out of his way to save Snape, though? I think James just telling Snape not to go after Lupin is just about equal to Snape saving Harry on the broomstick
<FlamingHorcri> I think he saved Snape to save Sirius' butt
<memyslfnI> yes, this is why DD made him Head boy..he grew up alot and stood up to his friends
<Narya> I don't - he would have saved Snape anyway - that is the man he was
<Skillet9886> even though it was Hermione who knocked over Quirrel, he would have been thrown long before then if Snape wasn't saying the countercurse
<accio_lily> A small part of Peter mightn't have wanted to hurt Harry - but he ddiin't want to use him because of his own reasons, not simply because he wanted to protect Harry
<mlwl> that is possible as well... James wasn't a particularly nice youg man
<gingin77> thats the thing.... i think life debts are created in the fact where you wouldnt usualy save this person.. it has to be a truely selfless act..
<NickTLC> Do the motives affect the outcome, then?
<NickTLC> It seems like a no
<Pottersgrl> james did it cause he was agood person and maybe regretted when he teased snape
<magicmeg8> i don't think james liked snape, but i don't think he was ready to accept being party to a possible murder
<Narya> Yes, I think they do
<michpotter> i agree FH, he saved snape, but he had the motive of saving sirius
<stewiegryf> I think that James didn't want any harm to come to Snape because of Sirius' joke. I doubt James cared if Snape lived or died, as long as he or his friends had nothing to do with it
<gingin77> James hated Snape... and Harry hated Pettegrew....
<Narya> I think James did care
<michpotter> but harry saved pettigrew
<accio_lily> I think motives do care
<accio_lily> *metter
<Narya> He might have been reckless, but he did care
<elizabeth18> Except Harry had a real concrete reason to hate pettigrew...
<DorisTLC> I think the motives should effect the outcome. If it's selfless - that should be more of a sacrifice.
<accio_lily> *Matter...
<Narya> And Snape has his own very reckless streak
<NickTLC> At the very moment, though, that the life debt was incurred, were Harry or James feeling hatred toward Snape or Pettigrew?
<elizabeth18> I don't know if motives matter
<elizabeth18> Is magic that sensitive?
<Narya> Proof of that in OotP
<NickTLC> Or were they feeling another emotion?
<gingin77> normaly they wouldnt give a damn but they wouldnt want them to die... well Harry wants pettigrew dead... but he didnt want moony and sirius to become mkillers
<memyslfnI> I agree Narya he did not want Snape to die..
<magicmeg8> i think the james-snape connection is paralleled moreso in the harry-malfoy connection
<FlamingHorcri> well see
<FlamingHorcri> now snape saved Malfoy at the end of HBP
<accio_lily> And Harry still saved Peter, even though he was perfectly within his rights/morals to watch him die and not be judged.
<memyslfnI> the joke went too far and he knew it
<Narya> I think it's deeper than that
<Skillet9886> I think James cared more than Sirius, but that's not saying much
<FlamingHorcri> and since we're transferring debts....
<FlamingHorcri> maybe malfoy has to save Harry now
<FlamingHorcri> and it will all be even
<DorisTLC> I wonder if Lilly played a part in the saving of Snape - I have always wondered that
<MonieLou> Isn't a joke suppose to be funny?
<magicmeg8> maybe kel
<MonieLou> What Sirius did was NOT funny, IMO.
<Narya> I have wondered that too
<FlamingHorcri> like paying your visa with your mastercard
<accio_lily> Wasn't Harry going to kill Sirius before he knew he was innocent? (Or am I confusing movie/book?)
<elizabeth18> What do you mean, Doris?
<Narya> No, it wasn't funny - but that was Sirius at the time
<magicmeg8> he wanted to lily
<gingin77> i dont think lily was 'involved' but i think she found out somehow
<magicmeg8> i don't know if he could have though
<Skillet9886> I really don't think James did anything all that extraordinary...even if you don't like someone, most people wouldn't stand aside and let them be attacked by a werewolf if they knew what was coming
<MonieLou> I don't think that Lily knew about the 'joke'.
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<Narya> James risked his life to save Snape
<memyslfnI> oooh, doof question Doris..she could have helped James "see the light"
<stewiegryf> exactly skillet
<DorisTLC> If lily - asked James, or if she persuaded James to help SNAPE- that might explain her not having to die
<memyslfnI> noy doof..good haha!
<MonieLou> It was mainly sirius who set it up
<elizabeth18> Oh, I see what you mean
<mlwl> good point Doris!
<elizabeth18> I don't think she knew
<memyslfnI> my typing under pressure is terrible!
<gingin77> Doris thats a good theory... but just dont see it happening
<elizabeth18> If James liked Lily and knew she didn't want Snape hurt, then James wouldn't tell her
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<Narya> Lily may have sensed something - but I don't think she knew all the details
<MonieLou> I dont think that James fully knew about it til it was almost commenced
<magicmeg8> why not camie?
<elizabeth18> He might tell her that he saved him, though
<Mokey> I always figured James saving Snape was a split second thing, but that's a good point Doris
<michpotter> what year were they in when james saved snape?
<Narya> Sixth
<elizabeth18> 6th, I think?
<accio_lily> Seventh? Mich?
<FlamingHorcri> Maybe Lily knew - and made James save him
<MonieLou> I thought it was fifth
<FlamingHorcri> so it'd be Snape's debt to Lily - which he'd be more likely to repay
<accio_lily> It mightv'e been 6th
<Skillet9886> do we know what year this happened in? Like what year James and Snape were in when he saved him?
<elizabeth18> Nah, if Lily knew she wouldn't have gone through James
<DorisTLC> I hope we learn all these little details as some point!
<elizabeth18> She would have gone to Snape herself
<Narya> Sixth, I'm pretty sure
<gingin77> I just think that Sirius went to tell James.... hehe guess what i did.... sort of thing
<magicmeg8> ahh, ok
<FlamingHorcri> well she would have yelled at Sirius for it
<MonieLou> Does it say somewhere what year is was?
<MonieLou> Like in the first book, or something?
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<michpotter> because it is plausable that lily and james were dating then, and snape and lily had a friendship of sorts, so lily persuaded james to save snape
<mlwl> I don't remember it saying
<Narya> Can't remember where
<elizabeth18> I think I remember Sirius saying something like
<Skillet9886> haha, ok, little bit of a tape delay on my typing here, sorry
<accio_lily> I htink it does, somewhere
<elizabeth18> "A lot of people are idiots at the age of..."
<elizabeth18> But I don't remember what age
<marielle> Hi everybody
<elizabeth18> I think he said 16
<Narya> Check in GoF, MonieLou
<MonieLou> I thought it was 15.
<Skillet9886> didn't Lily and James only start dating in the 7th year though? when they were Head Boy/Girl?
<magicmeg8> i think that was lupin .. in ootp
<mlwl> hello!
<michpotter> it was 15
<Narya> I think it's there
<FlamingHorcri> y'know - I dislike a lot of people
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<MonieLou> GoF? I was thinking OotP.
<memyslfnI> according to Lexicon it is 6th year
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<FlamingHorcri> but I wouldn't want them to get mauled by a werewolf
<stewiegryf> well, i've got to go now.
<Narya> Might be ...
<michpotter> it was "a lot of people are idots at the age of 15"
<accio_lily> I just don't think james would have let Snape die. or saved him only because Lily asked him to
<Skillet9886> no, they were saying that in OotP in reference to Snape's Worst Memory, not the life-debt
<stewiegryf> bye all!
<magicmeg8> bye stewie smile
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<Narya> bye stewie
<Mokey> bye stewie
<mlwl> bye stewie
<michpotter> see ya stewie
<FlamingHorcri> well a combination of Lily's pressure and the fact that it was REALLY saving Sirius from murder implications
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<FlamingHorcri> i think he would do it then
<Narya> Sirius would not have murdered Snape, no matter the provocation
<elizabeth18> I still think that if Lily knew about the joke she would go tell Snape herself
<Narya> He wasn't a murderer - just my two Knuts
<mlwl> I agree
<DorisTLC> One thing I've always wondered is how much this little incident had to do with Snape becomeing a death eater?
<elizabeth18> Sirius wouldn't have murdered Snape in cold blood
<mlwl> he wasn't MURDERING
<FlamingHorcri> murdering someone and sending someone to get murdered is the same thing in my head
<elizabeth18> but...
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<mlwl> it was laisses faire
<NYBookworm> I think the the life debt is occurred when someone saves an enemy- kind of like in the Bible where Jesus says anyone can help a friend but to help an enemy
<Skillet9886> well, Lily didn't seem too pleased with Snape either, judging by what Harry saw in the pensieve
<NickTLC> Right, it was a prank
<FlamingHorcri> Peter Pettigrew didn't kill the potters
<mlwl> but it would have been harder to fix later
<Narya> He didn't send him either ...
<FlamingHorcri> he just told LV where they were
<NickTLC> A tasteless prank, but a prank nonetheless
<Skillet9886> so she might have tried to convince James/Sirius to call off the joke before warning Snape
<Narya> It was a prank - and a reckless one at that
<Narya> But that was Sirius at the time
<Narya> He grew out of it
<FlamingHorcri> psh "at the time"
<NickTLC> Mm-hm
<elizabeth18> sort of
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<mlwl> he did????
<FlamingHorcri> no he didn't
<mlwl> lol
<MonieLou> One thing I've always wondered is how much this little incident had to do with Snape becomeing a death eater? ----------I don't think that allone had an effect, but I'm sure it added to it. The no acceptance, part.
<elizabeth18> I don't know that he really grew out of it..
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> They all grew out of it.
<Narya> He grew out of it - he admitted it in OotP
<mlwl> I agree, ML
<FlamingHorcri> yeah - and going to the train station as a dog....
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<FlamingHorcri> not reckless
<elizabeth18> Sure, but then look at his actions
<Evreka> Grew out of what?
<accio_lily> Kel
<Narya> I don't think Snape was influenced in that way to become a DE
<mlwl> I don't think Sirius did... he never seemed to "grow up" in book 5
<Skillet9886> reckless, but not life-threatening
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Not Snape though. I don't ever think Snape gave it up. (immatureness, holding onto childhood)
<FlamingHorcri> not life- threatening?
<elizabeth18> I think that Snape was always a loner and that this was just one more incident of him being an outsider
<FlamingHorcri> maybe his own life
<gingin77> Going to the train station was extreemly reckless... but just think about it... he was locked in a house that he hated for how many months
<magicmeg8> but sirius was pure-blood, and though james wasn't (or was he ... i forget), why would snape be more mad at james than siuus
<Narya> Snape's heart has always been bitter and locked in the past
<NickTLC> Right, I agree Elizabeth
<accio_lily> Reckless, to himself and his safety. In GoF he was very protective of Harry
<michpotter> i still think that sirius has a little reckless streek, but lupin seems to have lost his
<FlamingHorcri> protective in a stupid way sometimes....
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> James was pureblood
<Skillet9886> James was pureblood
<gingin77> trust me... if i was locked up for that long.. i would find any way to get out even though it could be bad forme
<gingin77> for me*
<elizabeth18> yeah, in OotP he went a little hyper
<Evreka> James was a pure blood
<Pottersgrl> bye everyone (good descion)
<FlamingHorcri> Yeah - he could have gone out as a dog any other time
<memyslfnI> here here Narya!...He cannot let go to the humiliation at the hands of the marauders and therefore is furious thet he owed a debt to James
<magicmeg8> ok -- so sirius and james were both pureblood -- why would snape run to the DEs based on his hatred of them
<FlamingHorcri> but going to somewhere that he could be recognized also put harry in danger
<elizabeth18> I don't think he did
<gingin77> but he wanted to say bon voyage to harry
<FlamingHorcri> too bad
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I don't think he did either.
<FlamingHorcri> it was stupid
<elizabeth18> I think he ran to the DEs because they were the only ones that accepted him
<Skillet9886> I don't think he became a DE just to get back at James and Sirius
<Narya> Snape was always heavily into the Dark Arts at school
<FlamingHorcri> he doesn't seem to understand his own stupidity
<magicmeg8> true
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<Skillet9886> he gained power within the ranks of the DEs...power and respect
<gingin77> heck everyone is guilty of that every once in a while FH
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<FlamingHorcri> Oh and about the DE thing - you go around with who is nice to you- right?
<mlwl> yes, but it wouldn't help anything if you were bullied in school!
<elizabeth18> right, exactly
<NickTLC> So, when Snape incurred this life debt, how pivotal was that in his life's timeline?
<Narya> Becoming a DE is a logical extension of that
<MonieLou> Do you think that Lucius got Snape introduced to teh DEs?
<Evreka> According to Sirius in the cave in GOF, Severus friends ALL became DE
<accio_lily> He became a DE because he loved the dark arts. Think about how he spoke in their first lesson, sixth year
<FlamingHorcri> so if the people on the "good side" are jerks....where are you going to go?
<mlwl> exactly, horcri!
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think he just wanted to feel powerful, he wanted to be superior as he thought he was all his school years. He wanted to hurt them like they hurt him.
<elizabeth18> not very, Nick
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<gingin77> I am currently guilty of it.. im suposed to be on crutches.. but do i use them... no ... because my leg doenst hurt and they slow me nown
<NickTLC> Did he change after that much in behaviors or actions?
<gingin77> down*
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<Narya> No, Nick - I don't think so
<FlamingHorcri> he was superior in potions
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<FlamingHorcri> for sure.
<MonieLou> Again I ask, do you think Lucius could have introduced him to the DE ways??
<FlamingHorcri> he invented spells and everything
<elizabeth18> I think that this just sort of solidified his feelings
<elizabeth18> no, monielou
<Narya> Maybe, MonieLou
<Evreka> Possibly, Monie Lou
<elizabeth18> I think he figured it out himself
<Skillet9886> isn't Lucius older than Snape?
<FlamingHorcri> but they looked down on him because he was poor-er than they were
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Snape wanted revenge.
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<Narya> Yes, he is
<Evreka> But why Lucius?
<FlamingHorcri> Lucius was probably 7th year when Snape was 3rd right?
<Evreka> All his friends were DEs
<Narya> Powerful, influential figure
<michpotter> i think that's right
<magicmeg8> perhaps he made decisions baseed on the shame of being saved by a boy he hated -- or rather was influenced by te incidient
<elizabeth18> late at night, by himself, reading all he could to get ahead
<FlamingHorcri> um - slytherin - kthx
<FlamingHorcri> it's about that easy
<accio_lily> He's still a horrible person, even though he is 'good' ( I believe) No matter what 'side' you are on, he is still a horibble person
<Skillet9886> I thought there were 5 years between Malfoy and Snape
<Narya> About that, yeah
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<Evreka> there's 6 years between them
<MonieLou> How do we know?
<tbunny> alright. I gtg. Have fun talking Snape.
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<elizabeth18> I think Snape would have been self taught
<Evreka> I think
<MonieLou> Did Jo say somewhere?
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<accio_lily> I'm not sure of the number... is it on the movie timeline?
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<Narya> Lucius was born in 1954 or thereabouts
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<Narya> Snape was born in 1960 or thereabouts
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<Evreka> Interviews with Jo said Snape was 35 and Lucius 41 after GOF
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<Skillet9886> yeah, so I doubt they had much interaction at Hogwarts
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> So yeah, six years
<accio_lily> Must dash - Perhaps I shall return. This has been really great!
<magicmeg8> bye lils!
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Bye lily!
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<Narya> Lucius could have taken young Snape under his wing
<NickTLC> How does this life debt reflect on Snape's portrayal of James as a bully, and on Harry's changed opinion in book 5 of James and Sirius as bullies, and why does Snape still see James as a bully despite this happening?
<gingin77> Yes Snape is a horrible person... but he is still good.. therefore the perfect Antihero
<elizabeth18> I just don't see Snape learning from anyone at all
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<Narya> Snape will always see James as a bully
<elizabeth18> He seems to believe that he is sort of above everyone else
<Narya> and that is bad - he's stuck in the past
<elizabeth18> and so therefore can't learn from them
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<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Narya, I agree! Definetly stuck in the past.
<gingin77> See i think Snape and James bullied each other...but James had friends behind him.. so therefore he won most of ht time
<Narya> Harry sees his father and Sirius in a different light in OotP
<MonieLou> I find that ironic, Narya. I mean, he saw James as a bully, but now he's bullying Harry, James' son.
<Skillet9886> James was a bully...just because he did this one act of morality doesn't change that
<Narya> He realises that they were human
<FlamingHorcri> And the fact that it was 4 or 1 that's fair
<elizabeth18> the bullied often become the bullies, monielou
<Narya> and reckless, and stupid
<FlamingHorcri> or=on
<gingin77> hey i didnt say that it was fair
<gingin77> but that is what happened
<memyslfnI> i don't think that Snape saw James as a "bully" because that would allow Snape to be the "bulee" or weaker..
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> James was so popular that he turned everyone against Snape. Snape never really had a chance.
<Narya> Snape never lost his chance to hex James
<MonieLou> Yes, but to a later generation? Now thats a grudge.
<FlamingHorcri> in retalliation
<marielle> From Lily during Snape worst memory, James was hexing everybody just because he could, seem liked a bully to me.
<Evreka> Let's say Crabbe puts some memory in a Pensieve in a few years. The memory of what happened on the train home end of OOTP
<Narya> I don't think James turned anyone against Snape
<Skillet9886> I really liked that change of Harry's perception in OotP, it's one of my favorite moments...he really grows up there and stops idealizing his father
<Narya> Snape was clearly unpopular in OotP
<gingin77> Actualy i thought it was because Sirius was bored
<elizabeth18> right
<magicmeg8> i know what you mean skillet
<Evreka> That would make DA look like bullies and Crabbe an innocent
<MonieLou> Of course he did, Jules! Look at what he did in the memory!
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think everyone thought he was weird, but I think because James was so popular everyone kind of followed.
<MonieLou> All those people laughing at SNape
<NickTLC> Very true, Evreka
<FlamingHorcri> I think that when you're bullied and traumatized by specific people for SEVEN YEARS - and y'know....we don't know if they knew each other before that....
<MonieLou> Making fun of SNape
<Narya> So it's equal to me
<FlamingHorcri> it's going to scar you
<FlamingHorcri> forl ife
<Narya> There is no proof of bullying for seven years
<Evreka> So that one Memory may not tell the whole tale...
<gingin77> Snape hexed the marauders too
<memyslfnI> we saw one snippet in time..it proves that in this case James and Sirius had the upper hand..But I am sure when the tables were turned. Snape gat his revenge
<Narya> And the comment was "bullying toerag"
<mlwl> technically no
<elizabeth18> Oh, I think we can assume that, narya
<magicmeg8> and we don't know whether snape brought it upon himself at first
<Skillet9886> Snape wasn't popular to begin with, but I'm sure the Marauders only made things worse for him
<Narya> which is different from "bully"
<mlwl> but Bullying NEVER starts at age 16 if they've none each other longer
<elizabeth18> Can you bring bullying upon yourself?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Exactly, Skillit.
<gingin77> not in that scene but i doubt that snape let them always have the advantage
<MonieLou> No, your right Evreka. But we got a good chink of what the early years of hogwrats must have been like for Snape.
<Narya> Snape was a bully himself, with his knowledge and skills
<elizabeth18> I think Snape was unppopular and James was popular
<elizabeth18> so the just started fighting
<MonieLou> Don't think. That's true
<FlamingHorcri> To me it seemed like Snape was a greasy little loner
<magicmeg8> i mean -- perhaps he was mean to them as first years
<elizabeth18> and probably neither one of them could tell you what started it
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Snape thought he was superior.
<magicmeg8> and it escalated
<mlwl> it IS bullying if there are 4 on 1
<FlamingHorcri> and james thought it was fun to pick on him
<MonieLou> Its even stated in canon
<memyslfnI> they believed in two different things
<Narya> They were too alike
<Skillet9886> I don't think their interactions were any different than average 8th graders
<MonieLou> Who?
<elizabeth18> alike?
<MonieLou> Snape and James?
<Evreka> Where MonieLou? Isn't it just one memory from one day?
<Narya> Yes
<elizabeth18> How so?
<Narya> Both arrogant
<DorisTLC> I see SNAPE as the extrememly intelligent student who had very few friends
<memyslfnI> yes, Narya they were
<Mokey> but did the mauraders go after him because he was into dark arts or because he was an easy target
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think Snape wanted power. He was jealous of James, Sirius, Lupin, and Pettigrew.
<FlamingHorcri> that's what I mean Doris.
<FlamingHorcri> He didn't DO the same things they did
<Skillet9886> I think probably both, Mokey
<Mokey> because being bullied could have fueled his passion for the Dark arts
<FlamingHorcri> he was a bit of a book nerd....a slytherin....poor (I assume from the book)
<Evreka> No idea, MonieLou, but it doesn't prove it was a typical day.
<magicmeg8> i agree evreka
<Evreka> Might have been but we don't know it
<MonieLou> Sirius said that they jixed each other every chance they got
<FlamingHorcri> and he was a half blood
<Narya> Both reckless
<Narya> I think it was even, Mokey
<DorisTLC> Exactly! That made him an outcast - easily picked on by the majority, who may have been jealous of his intelligence. I see that often with the kids I teach
<FlamingHorcri> and James was the opposite of those things
<Skillet9886> I think Snape's and James's/Sirius's attitudes fueled each other....a huge, unpleasant cycle
<elizabeth18> you know, maybe since Snape put this in the Pensieve that means that it is a bit more important that we were thinking
<MonieLou> That seems pretty typical to tme
<elizabeth18> and not really a typical day
<memyslfnI> he probably flaunted his knowledge of the dark arts..otherwise how would they know he knew more hexes then the older students?
<FlamingHorcri> I think that Snape could have really hurt James
<mlwl> i do too, doris
<elizabeth18> something that really embarressed Snape
<Narya> I think they were all equally to blame
<magicmeg8> but that's interesting elizabeth
<MonieLou> Jixing each other every chance they got? TYPICAL
<FlamingHorcri> especially with the knowlede of Sectumsempra? he could have REALLY hurt him
<mlwl> nothing is equal when it is 4 on one
<FlamingHorcri> but he chose not to
<Narya> Yes, very typical
<FlamingHorcri> I wonder why
<gingin77> i get you elizabeth
<NickTLC> Do we find a reversal of this situation, then, of the popular bullying the unpopular, with Malfoy and Harry? Are the two situations comparable?
<Skillet9886> I see that with my students too, Doris...I don't see James and Snape as extraordinary cases
<Narya> Because he knew that spell was illegal, I think ...
<gingin77> Sectumsempra was used that day wasnt it?
<elizabeth18> Malfoy and Harry are both popular
<NickTLC> Comparable but flipped, that is
<elizabeth18> just in different cliques
<MonieLou> But aren't both Harry and Malfoy popular in their own Houses>?
<MonieLou> *??
<FlamingHorcri> yes
<Evreka> Do we know how old Mulciber, Rosiers were?
<Narya> They're typical teens - I see that in my students as well
<MonieLou> Malfoy seems to pull some rank, and Harry the same
<magicmeg8> (harry's popularity level seem to change every month)
<gingin77> I think Harry is more widely popular through the school than Draco is tho
<DorisTLC> Harry is popular - but his friends are scared of him - Harry's love him.
<Skillet9886> I don't think Malfoy or Harry are either as popular as James was
<Narya> Same age as Lucius, I think
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> True Meg!
<DorisTLC> his - being draco
<gingin77> yes skillet... i agree
<Narya> Yes, Harry's friends love him - that's the difference
<MonieLou> I meant in their respective houses
<Evreka> If they were older than Snape and gr

Second half of The Corner Booth Text Chat!

<Narya> And that is Snape's problem ...
<Narya> :D
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think it's definetly "a wandless, unbreakable vow" like you said earlier Nick.
<gingin77> i think dumbledore said that Snape was in the order as a spy before the potters were killed... or i may just be implying this from dumbledores lines in the trial
<FlamingHorcri> Did snape know that Harry was on the tower?
<Narya> Like invisible bonds
<Evreka> Snape didn't save Draco's life, Albus would have saved him otherwise... sad
<Skillet9886> ok, guys, time for me to go. Thanks for the great discussion!
<FlamingHorcri> at the end of HBP
<Steph> If the debtor dies, I don't think that gurantees the debt dying. It's another Jo loophole, perhaps.
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Bye!
<Evreka> No way FlamingHorcri
<Narya> Maybe he sensed that Harry would be there
<Steph> Bye Skillet! smile
<Narya> Same as in GoF
<Mokey> maybe it's kind of like with houselves, they can disobey their masters but it's really hard
<FlamingHorcri> because if he knew Harry was there....then he technically saved Harry there
<Mokey> bye Skillet
<Evreka> What Narya?
<FlamingHorcri> I mean - maybe Dumbledore put him on guard...incase he blew something up again?
<Steph> I don't think Snape knew Harry was there,
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<Mokey> maybe that's how not sticking to a life debt is
<FlamingHorcri> like with his black hand
<gingin77> No i dont think Snape knew that Harry was on the tower.. he might have found out when harry started chasing him down bu ti don thtink he knew harry was there while they wre on the tower
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think it doesn't pass on, unless possibly the person someone owes a debt to dies, and it's passed on to their kin.
<memyslfnI> he says that Harry has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time..or was that in the movie? hehe
<Narya> I think he sensed Harry's presence
<Narya> But he had made plans with DD, not Harry
<Narya> Bit of both, M
<gingin77> ehhh... this is a tough one....
<FlamingHorcri> depending on how one interprets that
<FlamingHorcri> but that's not this chat
<FlamingHorcri> lol
<Evreka> No, I don't think so...
<Narya> DD was the one who mattered at that point, not Harry
<Evreka> Snape knowing Harry was there
<FlamingHorcri> yes, but if Snape KNEW Harry was there-
<FlamingHorcri> he could have easily taken him to Voldemort
<Evreka> Right
<FlamingHorcri> or killed him
<Narya> Wouldn't have mattered - Snape had promised DD
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think that Snape just wanted to complete the mission to kill Dumbledore.
<FlamingHorcri> and if he KNEW.....then he saved Harry right there.
<Evreka> We don't know that Narya - that he cares
<Narya> But Harry was indirect to the whole action there
<Narya> We don't know, no
<FlamingHorcri> yes but Voldemort WANTS Harry
<Mokey> well Snape couldnt' have made that up about Harry belonging to LV
<Evreka> In fact all his actions says otherwise
<FlamingHorcri> that's all he's wanted since Harry was BORN
<Steph> Snape didn't give a hoot about Harry until he realized Harry was chasing him
<Narya> They do
<NickTLC> Do you all think that Jo hasn't told us something pivotal about how life debts work? Will there be another piece to the puzzle or another aspect to them, like metamorphmaguses are to animaguses or like the prophecy being revealed?
<FlamingHorcri> was him dead
<Mokey> becuase teh other DE's would have called him on it
<Narya> If that's how we read them
<Narya> Yes
<Narya> Morality and ethics
<Steph> Definitely
<Mokey> there has to be another peice Nick, I remember her saying she couldn't explain it all but she wishes she could
<FlamingHorcri> I think that somehow Hermione will find it in the Great Big Book of Life Debts
<FlamingHorcri> about the repayment of lifedebts
<Steph> Hehehe
<Narya> And conscience - I sound like a broken record!!
<Evreka> It's 2 AM here - thanks for a nice discussion smile
<Narya> Bye Evreka
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<NickTLC> What aspects, then, of life debts do you guys think will be revealed?
<marielle> Definitely NickTLCm there is a lot to unvover about how life debt works
<NickTLC> Any theories?
<DorisTLC> Did we learn anything about life debts from Dobby that might help us out?
<gingin77> life debt is one of the many unexplained mysteries
<Steph> Hopefully she goes more in-depth about life debts. (i.e. Wormtail and Harry)
<FlamingHorcri> if I can put it into words
<FlamingHorcri> i can
<Narya> The heart
<gingin77> we know almost nothing about them
<mlwl> do you think we'll get an actual explanation on that one?
<Narya> Selflessness
<mlwl> I kindadoubt it
<Mokey> how powerful it is and how it works to make you repay it is the question I'd like to know
<Steph> Life debts are hard to explain, there is so much depth and discovery to them.
<FlamingHorcri> I think she will somehow let us know about the emotion that ties them together
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think they will definetly be explained. I think Harry will figure it out on his on.
<Narya> Dobby is a good example
<Mokey> and does something happen if it goes unnpaid
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<xXxMagicalMandixXx> *own
<Narya> Yes, I think it does
<gingin77> yeah... Harry will figure it out... but it has to be explained
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Sooner! Hello!
<memyslfnI> like an unbreakable vow Mokey?
<Narya> The wizard is never free if it's unpaid
<FlamingHorcri> why sometimes saving someone is a life debt
<FlamingHorcri> and sometimes it's not
<FlamingHorcri> what constitutes a circumstance that would cause one
<FlamingHorcri> I think that's what we'll find out
<FlamingHorcri> and then Harry/Hermione/Ron will be able to figure out who owes who what
<memyslfnI> Book seven is going to e HUGE!
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Me too Horcri
<gingin77> perfect FH
<NickTLC> Right, like Nearly-Headless Nick inadvertantly saving Justin Finch-Fletchly's life in Chamber of Secrets
<memyslfnI> will we be able to lift it?
<SoonerGryffindor> hello everyone
<FlamingHorcri> yeah - you can't have a life debt to someone who's dead already
<gingin77> yeah we will be able to lift it
<FlamingHorcri> that's not fair
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<FlamingHorcri> that's like having a credit card in my dog's name
<Narya> We won't be able to put it down
<Steph> There are a lot of life debts in the whole series, per say.
<magicmeg8> back smile
<NickTLC> No life debt there, but no life in Nearly-Headless Nick to begin with
<FlamingHorcri> you can't really pay it back
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<Narya> Good one, Nick!!
<Narya> But NHN does have a heart
<NickTLC> Bingo
<FlamingHorcri> he's an imprint of what used to be a heart
<memyslfnI> good point Horcri..Nick would be the exception..he's already dead so would not qualify for a "life debt"
<magicmeg8> lol
<Narya> Still an imprint, though ... lol
<NickTLC> Although--we don't entirely understand how ghosts work, so they might not be compatible with the old magic in the same way that a human is
<Steph> Has Jo already said you can't have a life debt unless your alive? Or is that just being assumed?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think that you have to purposley save someone's life.
<Narya> Good ghosts, bad ghosts?
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<FlamingHorcri> well it would not be able to be paid back
<gingin77> Jo has barely said anything on the subject
<FlamingHorcri> so it wouldn't really be a debt
<Steph> But whose to say whether it's on purpose or not?
<FlamingHorcri> because the word debt implies the ability to pay back
<memyslfnI> assumed, I think?....Oooohhh this would make an excellent essay!!!! Any takers!!
<Steph> Good point FH
<NickTLC> Haha
<DorisTLC> IT would make an excellent essay
<gingin77> this would be an awesome essay... but it would be hard as heck to find any information on it
<Narya> Ten out of ten for trying, M!!
<magicmeg8> true
<Steph> I'd do it, but I have so many thoughts on it, I'd have a difficult time organizing it all. tongue
<memyslfnI> Flaminghorcri????
<FlamingHorcri> I wonder if someone can have a life debt
<FlamingHorcri> and not know it
<gingin77> im with steph on this one
<memyslfnI> Steph.. you are on!
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<DorisTLC> Actually there are life debts in wiccan culture and in mythology. Once could start there
<FlamingHorcri> what?
<magicmeg8> hey lizzie!
<NickTLC> And in Star Wars!
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<NickTLC> Heh heh
<magicmeg8> lol nick
<Lizzieangel90> Hey everyone!
<Lizzieangel90> Like the star wars refrence nick
<DorisTLC> Hi Lizzie -
<Narya> Jedi Knights ... but that's another topic
<gingin77> oh god.... star wars....
<LJ> Hi Lizzie
<FlamingHorcri> I mean what if I accidentally slowed up the wizard who was on his way to kill someone else.....so that I technically saved them...
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<FlamingHorcri> would that be a life debt....and would I know it?
<DorisTLC> actually Start Wars is just another King Arthur story
<Narya> If it's accidental, no
<FlamingHorcri> what if I stopped the guy on purpose....
<Narya> If you meant to save them, you repay the debt
<FlamingHorcri> even though I didn't know he's on his way to kill
<Narya> But would your heart tell you?
<NickTLC> Does the ancient magic have some sort of checklist for criteria when handing out life debts? How does that sort of thing work?
<Steph> But what if he still managed to kill?
<gingin77> oohhhh. thats a good one Narya
<magicmeg8> i think the whole "life debt" idea is a bit too vague for us to know much yet, but it's fun to guess
<FlamingHorcri> I don't know
<NickTLC> Is it a just-go-along-with-me-on-this-one sort of thing on Jo's part?
<Narya> Ancient magic is really powerful
<FlamingHorcri> that's why I was asking
<Steph> There has to be some kind of in place criteria for a life debt.
<gingin77> sorry FH... i mentto say you
<Mokey> lol Nick
<Narya> Even LV knows that
<NickTLC> Or does it seem more purposeful and deliberate and does it fit into her world?
<Mokey> I think she has specific rules for it
<Steph> Even if it's vauge.
<FlamingHorcri> Well I think we're just supposed to take "ancient magic" and just trust her
<Mokey> she just hasn't told us
<DorisTLC> Ancient magic has een stated to be the most powerful. IT's also wandless magic.
<SoonerGryffindor> I think the life debt is incurred when it is something you would rather not do, but do anyway
<FlamingHorcri> we trust her on the "ancient magic" that saved Harry
<Narya> Magic from the heart and soul!!
<Narya> So LV has no chance
<FlamingHorcri> Sooner - so it's got to be intentional
<Narya> Hehe
<FlamingHorcri> and have personal cost?
<SoonerGryffindor> yes
<FlamingHorcri> i guess that'd be a debt....lol
<gingin77> i think the saving someone has to be intentional yes
<mlwl> they don't seem all that different to me, somehow....
<FlamingHorcri> when you take a hit at personal cost
<FlamingHorcri> they have to pay you back?
<Steph> Personal cost is possibly the most important aspect of it.
<SoonerGryffindor> something like that
<gingin77> if its accedental you really didnt intend on doing it....
<marielle> A personal cost , or no personal gain?
<mlwl> life/ death situations seem as if they would be ancient magic... no "real" explanation needed
<NickTLC> I think I'd find it interesting to see a list of everyone's criteria for what constitutes a life debt (but not right now!)
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<Narya> No personal gain
<NYBookworm> I still think it's when yuou save someone who is an enemy becasue anyone even "evil" people can help a friend
<SoonerGryffindor> maybe both
<FlamingHorcri> not neccesarily for whatt could have happened to them......
<gingin77> so how could someone owe you if you had no intetnion on helping them in the first place
<FlamingHorcri> but for what you gave up to do it
<FlamingHorcri> Harry gave up revenge to save Peter
<Narya> You have to give, and not count the cost
<Narya> Otherwise it's meaningless
<FlamingHorcri> James gave up some sense of populairty with Sirius to save Snape
<NickTLC> Mmm-hmm
<SoonerGryffindor> yes, and they both risked their lives
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<FlamingHorcri> Snape gave up his favor with Voldemort to save Draco
<Narya> Exactly, and grew up
<gingin77> Harry still wants revenge with Peter... he didnt let Lupin and Sirius kill Peter because he wanted to protect them...not Peter
<FlamingHorcri> so maybe it's in what the "saver" lost.....not what they saved the victim from
<SoonerGryffindor> I think it was a little of both
<NickTLC> Fair point, gingin
<Narya> Harry is over Peter
<magicmeg8> that's true camie
<Narya> His father would have saved Peter as well
<SoonerGryffindor> exactly
<gingin77> exactly
<Steph> Harry is more focused on Bellatrix now.
<SoonerGryffindor> you mean Snape, right?
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<FlamingHorcri> but that's the thing...he gave up his feelings of revenge and hatred....so that Sirius could reap the benefits of Pettigrew's life
<Steph> and Snape.
<gingin77> Eh... I still think Harry is worrying about Peter, Bella and Snape are added too... but Peter is still there
<FlamingHorcri> he's still mad
<FlamingHorcri> but he didn't ACT on them
<NickTLC> Would killing an innocent person in any way nullify a life debt owed to one?
<Narya> Harry doesn't bother about Bella either, I think
<FlamingHorcri> What do you mean, Nick?
<Steph> Oh, I think it's bottled up.
<FlamingHorcri> I don't get the question
<SoonerGryffindor> I wonder if he'll ever find out Snape and Peter are together
<NickTLC> Can one nullify a life debt that one is owed through one's actions?
<SoonerGryffindor> kill 2 birds with one stone that way
<Mokey> wait what nick?
<FlamingHorcri> you're going to have to type that out in little words
<magicmeg8> yeah
<FlamingHorcri> my brain did not compute
<SoonerGryffindor> how would that work nick?
<gingin77> Like if Harry owed a life debt to someone and lets say Pettigrew saved that person would Harry be off the hook?
<magicmeg8> you mean if you killed someone from a person you owed your life to?
<gingin77> did i get that right
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<Narya> No, Nick
<Narya> No, Nick
<magicmeg8> *for
<DorisTLC> I think that the life debt is owed no matter what - unless you were to kill someone that owed the person who owed you. does that make any sense?
<NickTLC> If Snape owes Harry a life debt, but then Harry goes and kills, say, Draco, would Snape's life debt be nullified by Harry's actions?
<Narya> sorry!!
<Lizzieangel90> I have to go...byebye!!
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<Narya> PC is going mad
<FlamingHorcri> now what if someone owes you a life debt and you kill them later
<FlamingHorcri> it's fair
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> No
<magicmeg8> ohhh. no i don't think it would be.
<Narya> The debt stands, no matter what
<SoonerGryffindor> Like what happened between James and Snape?
<mlwl> LOL horcri
<gingin77> i think the debt still stands
<magicmeg8> yeah -- there was no action taken on the debtor's part
<NickTLC> Wouldn't the ancient magic see that as balanced, though?
<FlamingHorcri> Nick - that's what I was wondering if you could triangulate a life debt.....
<Narya> Hmmm ...
<NickTLC> If the ancient magic is seeking a sort of karmic balance, wouldn't killing undo saving?
<FlamingHorcri> if i could pay off my life debt to you by killing the person who you have a life debt to
<gingin77> wait what i said FH
<Mokey> oooh, hmm are you using Draco because of the unbreakable vow, or could you put anybody in there?
<Narya> Did Snape give with his heart when he repaid that debt?
<Steph> Most likely not.
<FlamingHorcri> does snape HAVE a heart?
<Narya> Exactly - so to me, it's unpaid
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> It would be like if you stole a cookie then someone else stole a cookie too. Even though someone else stole a cookie, you still face the concequences
<FlamingHorcri> or if you stopped someone from taking a cookie
<Narya> He does, but it's hidden under layers of hate
<Mokey> I agree Cedric....
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> snape hasn't baked a new batch of cookies yet
<FlamingHorcri> and someone else took it later
<NickTLC> Not quite, though--it's as though someone stole from you, then you stole something from them
<gingin77> Of course Snape has a heart... it might be a cold one at times... but he has a heart
<FlamingHorcri> does the debt still stand?
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> yeah
<NickTLC> In a simple way, the wrong done to you has been repaid upon them
<Narya> I think it does - at least on Snape's conscience
<Steph> Although I am still bitter towards Snape for that whole 'killing Dumbledore' thing he did, so my answer may be a bit biased. tongue
<Narya> I think JKR is trying to tell us that
<FlamingHorcri> an eye for an eye - makes the whole world blind ;)
<Narya> Snape had to - he was boxed into a corner, Steph
<Steph> tongue
<gingin77> yes FH.. exactly
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<Mokey> here's an idea, maybe unfullfilled life debts don't effect this life, but the next one
<NickTLC> Are there any characters that you all think might owe other characters life debts that we simply haven't known about so far?
<Steph> Yeah, I know. But it still sucks. ^_^
<JohnTLC> :P
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> actually it reminds the whole world not to take other peoples' eyes out
<mlwl> LOL steph
<FlamingHorcri> I just really think that it's motive more than result.
<Narya> Other characters, Nick?
<magicmeg8> does the act of killing someone make it more difficult to repay a litfe debt? LV
<NickTLC> Other life debts, sorry
<Narya> Ah
<gingin77> Huh....
<Narya> Sorry, brain is melting
<SoonerGryffindor> I wouldn't think so mm
<cloudpic> What an interesting thought, Nick
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> *confused*
<NickTLC> Are there any other life debts out there that we don't know about, is what I mean
<mlwl> oh no! melting brains are no good!
<DorisTLC> I like the eye for an eye - as the person who carries out the debt is a third party
<Narya> If there are, JKR is being mighty cagey
<cloudpic> Do you have one in mind
<NickTLC> Ones that could potentially come into play in book seven
<gingin77> hmmm...
<SoonerGryffindor> like who
<FlamingHorcri> I think that would be a cop out
<FlamingHorcri> unless we find out EARLY in the book
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<NickTLC> Perhaps Lily had her life saved?
<gingin77> yeah FH... a third life debt could be a cop out....
<magicmeg8> like, LV has killed people and his soul/life has been weakened -- so would that detract from his ability to repay a life debt (if he had one)
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<gingin77> By who
<Narya> By whom, Nick?
<FlamingHorcri> we get down to the last chapter and it's "oh by the way...there's a life debt"
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<Steph> Yeah, I'm sure there are more, just none that are imporant to the story.
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<Steph> Ooh. Nick quit.
<NickTLC> Perhaps by Snape?
<DorisTLC> I don't see another life dept - but I do see that this one will play into the plot. Unless there is a Lily tie in
<Narya> ACK!
<Steph> Oh he's back. tongue
<Narya> No
<gingin77> Snape has more than one life debt
<Narya> LOL
<NickTLC> Ruddy backspace button, heh
<FlamingHorcri> I have this crappy feeling that Snape killed his father too....
<gingin77> or someone owes a life debt to snape
<FlamingHorcri> but I have no freaking proof
<FlamingHorcri> just a feeling
<SoonerGryffindor> who else?
<magicmeg8> that would be really intersting kel
<Steph> I hope Snape didn't kill James. Oh, please, oh please.
<mlwl> horcri, I think the same if dad wasn't already dead.... which I doubt
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Who do you think Snape has killed>
<Narya> Don't think Snape killed his father. Beat him up, maybe, but not killed
<magicmeg8> hmm. i wish i could spell properly while typing wuickly
<mlwl> it's not as if the Riddle family would have willed him the house
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<Narya> Snape didn't kill James
<Mindslashed> no, james came out of voldemorts wand in book. 4. voldy dephinatly killed him
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> (besides Dumbledore, if you believe he actually did)
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> If someone had a life debt to Lily would it pass down to Harry through their "magic beneith the skin bond" or what if Wormtail's debt to harry passed to LV when harry gave his blood in the graveyard
<Narya> LV did
<mlwl> steph, I don't *think* that's the case
<marielle> Why would Snape kill his father
<Steph> Part of me thinks Sanpe has killed other Death Eaters.
<NickTLC> Perhaps Dumbledore was owed life debts? Could a life debt in any way return someone from the dead in return for the ower's life?
<FlamingHorcri> I think that Snape has probably saved a lot of people we don't know about
<Narya> No
<Mokey> bye everybody, nice chatting with you
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<mlwl> maybe it's in with DD's Last Will & Testament...
<DorisTLC> Snape may have may life depts. Or he may be owed them. Which brings up another point. If you owe a life dept - and the person who you owe "wills" that life dept - that can happen?
<Narya> No magical spell can reawaken the dead
<SoonerGryffindor> dead is dead *sniff*
<NickTLC> Inferi are the dead
<mlwl> and to you, Harry, I decree my life debt to....
<gingin77> Eh... i like the whole thing were Voldemort has a Life Debt to Harry... cause he used Wormtail's hand... therefore Wormtails blood
<gingin77> ohhh....
<Mindslashed> but their undead, thats different
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> Inferi are puppets
<FlamingHorcri> that's not fair though
<Mindslashed> they're mindless reanimated corpses..
<Mindslashed> not people
<Narya> Blood doesn't hold the debt
<FlamingHorcri> that's almost like willing credit card debt
<gingin77> eh....
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I just thought about that, where is DD's will, and what does it contain and to whom?
<mlwl> creelpy puppets!
<FlamingHorcri> i don't think that happens
<SoonerGryffindor> what does hold the debt?
<gingin77> it could have passed
<magicmeg8> lol
<NickTLC> So at any rate, are there any others who could owe or be owed life debts that we don't know about?
<FlamingHorcri> I think yes
<Steph> Inferi are just creepy.
<mlwl> well, no, but JKR has made it clear that blood makes a LOT of connections
<Narya> I don't think a debt can be "willed" away #
<FlamingHorcri> but I think if there are - it's going to be a learning experience for Harry
<gingin77> eh nick... it would then be over used.. so NO
<FlamingHorcri> not exactly plot driven information
<Mindslashed> by the person who it is owed to though
<Narya> Not in debts, though
<DorisTLC> If James was owed a dept - and it is passed on, then what is to say that your dept doesn't pass on as well?
<Narya> She debunked that one
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> I don't think a debt can be pushed away by anything
<Steph> Darn you lag.
<FlamingHorcri> How do we know James didn't have a debt to someone else?
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<FlamingHorcri> if Harry doesn't KNOW- does it matter?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I don't think it can be passed on.
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<SoonerGryffindor> so what happens if you don't repay the debt?
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<FlamingHorcri> Snape knows....which is why it matters to him
<Narya> You never rest
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Maybe you die?
<Steph> See that brings you back to "James is dead, does his debt still stand" issue.
<DorisTLC> If it is a magical bind it will matter -o
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> remember how Harry wanted nothign to do with Wormy at the end of PoA but he couldn't make the debt go away even though he wasn;t the one in debt
<Narya> Yes, it matters
<NickTLC> How do you guys think Snape's worst memory and his experience with James and the life debt affected his decisions to both join the Order and join the Death-Eaters?
<gingin77> Yeah thats another question... if the person who owes the Debt doenst know or donest belive they owe a debt.. do they?
<FlamingHorcri> Well I think it is held by the debtor
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<Steph> Yeah, Ging, I think so. You can owe credit card debt and not know it. I think life debts work the same way.
<FlamingHorcri> the Person to whom it is owed...probably doesn't even know/care/focus on it
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I'm really not sure. This is all so befuddling!
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<gingin77> good point
<FlamingHorcri> but the person WHO owes can't get away from it
<DorisTLC> Ging - I think if it's a magical bond - I'm just not sure
<Narya> Wouldn't have made him very well disposed to James, but wouldn't have changed his mind abou the DEs
<SoonerGryffindor> how could you pay it if you didn;t know about it?
<Mindslashed> im getting confused, who all has debts to who that we know of?
<Steph> Although I feel bad for anyone who doesn't know they owe credit card debt.
<Narya> Peter to Harry
<Mindslashed> i know snape has a debt to james, and wormtail to harry...
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> well I don't think it would really matter unless it came down to the wire in
<SoonerGryffindor> what about LV to Harry?
<Steph> Didn't Snape repay his debt to James?
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> which case I dunno maybe he would be like in Ella Enchanted
<Mindslashed> i dont know, did he?
<FlamingHorcri> Steph - I think he did
<Narya> Not LV to Harry
<DorisTLC> Lily is who I wonder about - could someone else owe Harry?
<Mindslashed> LV has a debt to harry? since when?
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> yeah in saving harry in SS
<gingin77> I dont think Snape ever repayed harry
<gingin77> i mean james
<gingin77> how Cedric....
<Mindslashed> i dotn think he did either....
<SoonerGryffindor> well, he used part of Peter, would that count?
<FlamingHorcri> by keeping him from falling off his broom to his death?
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> yeah by saving Harry in SS
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<gingin77> cause hermione saved harry on the broom
<magicmeg8> i think being isolated and made fun of during school -- abuse which transferred from his homelife, gave snape the need to "prove himsel" -- to be in control -- so likely, his homelife was what really influenced him.
<FlamingHorcri> We don't know if the hand transferred.
<Mindslashed> who used part of peter?
<FlamingHorcri> but it was because of the actions of snape that Hermione was even there
<SoonerGryffindor> LV used his hand to regenerate
<Narya> The hand didn't transfer the debt
<Mindslashed> i dont think it did.. thats pushing it
<gingin77> hermione was the one who saved harry.. she bumped into quirrell... breaking teh connection.
<Steph> Isn't saving Harry's life paying James back? I mean, James obviously doesn't want his son to die.
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> hermione would have been too late
<NickTLC> That's a good point, Sooner--was any of Peter's life debt transferred to Voldemort upon his rebirthing?
<FlamingHorcri> AND it was Snapes INTENTION to save him
<FlamingHorcri> and if it's in intention isn't that what counts?
<Mindslashed> but he was saving harry, not james...
<Narya> JKR debunked that one, Nick
<Steph> Can sliced off body parts transfer debt?
<FlamingHorcri> but Snape still held on
<NickTLC> It'd be a crummy plot device
<NickTLC> Good! Heh
<SoonerGryffindor> I agree
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> It wasn't.
<Narya> Just as well
<Steph> That would be odd.
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> That would be wayyy too weird for JKR.
<mlwl> when did she?
<mlwl> Narya?
<Mindslashed> i seriously doubt the hand transferred debt, that strikes me as rather silly and pretty weak to holdo n to
<Narya> On her website
<gingin77> Snape was only delaying.. he would have never caught up with Quirrell's jynx... Hermioine was the one who saved harry by disrupting Quirrell... even tho it was accidental
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> (It's like Mr. Blood all over again!)
<FlamingHorcri> I used to owe sprint for a phone bill.....now I owe some other company that took it over....lol -
* mlwl doesn't remember many details
<DorisTLC> If a body part could, then could a few drops of blood?
<mlwl> k thanks
<Narya> No, same idea, Doris
<Steph> Oh, Mr Blood.
<Narya> I think
<Narya> No transfer
<DorisTLC> Mr Blood indeed!
<FlamingHorcri> well wouldn't then Snape owe Voldemort now?
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<SoonerGryffindor> which leads back to how is a debt transferred? or can it be
<gingin77> ha MR Blood
<Mindslashed> no, no tranfer. it's wizard to wizard, not DNA or a virus
<Narya> ACK!!
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> now I have my Mr. Blood tehme song stuck in my head
<Steph> Oh man. I can't even type Mr Blood without laughing.
<FlamingHorcri> if his debt isn't paid to Harry?
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> *theme
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<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Haha yes, Mr. Blood. I don't think Harry's blood did anything but pass on the Ancient Magic.
<gingin77> hahahaha
<DorisTLC> Yes - which is why I don't think the hand could transfer the dept
<FlamingHorcri> Voldy is just racking up the life debt points
<magicmeg8> but it's a LIFE debt, so as long as one's life was saved, regardless of how it was threatened, the debt would be created -- thus limbs, etc probably wouldn't count
<gingin77> yeah im with doris... i think its more of a soul thing... than a blood thing
<FlamingHorcri> well is bring someone BACK from the dead.....
<FlamingHorcri> just like saving their life?
<Narya> LV owes more than he knows
<magicmeg8> or wouldn't be important
<FlamingHorcri> isn't that the same as stopping their death?
<CedricLivesOnInMyMemory> well I g2g life is hectic but I love poppin in and having discussions with y'all. bye for now
<Narya> Bringing someone back from the dead is wrong, I think
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<DorisTLC> It's always about souls, love and choices it seems.
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> What I don't understand is that if Harry still has to go back to the Dursley's, what protection is left?
<Narya> Till he's seventeen
<Steph> Spells that were place on the house, maybe?
<Narya> The bond of blood
<magicmeg8> he only has to go back his last year
<NickTLC> Ah, that's for another discussion, I think
<Mindslashed> well it's because petinia is lilys sister
<Steph> Ooh.
<Narya> Good call, Nick
<Mindslashed> dumbledore explained it all...
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Haha probably.
<gingin77> yeah that is another discussion
<Mindslashed> yes, back to snape
<SoonerGryffindor> lol
<NickTLC> Why does Snape still feel enmity towards James, then?
<Narya> And on that note, I need to go
<FlamingHorcri> Well it's possible that Voldemort can't find him at Privet - that's what I figure.....anyways
<Mindslashed> of course!
<Narya> Great chatting with you all - Bye
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<FlamingHorcri> I think that James was really crappy to Snape
<Steph> Guilt, most likely.
<gingin77> Cause Snape is still living in the past
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<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Bye! I think Snape was just troubled.
<NickTLC> If he feels the life debt making him repay his debt, why is he still so loathe to James and to Harry?
<gingin77> he cant let go of a grudge
<FlamingHorcri> and it scarred him
<Mindslashed> snape hates james, he never forgave the guy for saving him methinks
<FlamingHorcri> for life
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<magicmeg8> maybe james/marauders reminded snape of his father
<gingin77> ooohhh nice magic
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<Steph> Snape has a hard time letting go.
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Snape was jealous.
<NickTLC> But doesn't the life debt have some influence over one's actions between the two people involved?
<magicmeg8> smile
<FlamingHorcri> I think it's because he was scarred for life. seriously
<NickTLC> Or doesn't it?
<FlamingHorcri> same reason Sirius treated Harry as if he were James
<gingin77> Yeah jellousy was definately involved
<FlamingHorcri> he behaves so much and looks so much like him
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think Snape just wanted protection.
<FlamingHorcri> Snape had preconcieved ideas of harry
<DorisTLC> Sanpe may have wanted what Jaems had - I can see alot of that.
<FlamingHorcri> and can't get over them
<FlamingHorcri> Well Severus seemed very poor
<FlamingHorcri> and james well...not poor
<FlamingHorcri> lol
<gingin77> yeah Harry isnt exactly like James... simmilar yes... but not exact.... Harry isnt as egotistical
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Snape never got true revenge himself on James, so he hurts Harry.
<Steph> Snape assumed Harry was a replica of James.
<NickTLC> Right, but doesn't the life debt have this strong influence on Snape, making him feel the need to repay it?
<Mindslashed> well james had friends overall..
<gingin77> Yes Steph
<Mindslashed> all of the deatheaters that snape runs with later on are older.
<NickTLC> And if so, how does that affect his relationship with Harry and how did it affect his relationship with James, if at all?
<SoonerGryffindor> Nick, are you saying Snape feels honor bound, or there is something else to it?
<FlamingHorcri> I think that he feels very guilty about his hate to Harry and can't get over it
<NickTLC> How much influence does this life debt really have over one's actions?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I think he has to repay it, but he can be as nasty as he likes. Causing emotional pain has nothing to do with the life debt.
<Mindslashed> lucuis is 41 for example, while snape is about 35 (at teh beginning of the series)
<DorisTLC> I'm not sure if he felt the need to repay - but knew it was his obligation.
<LEW> Wouldn't the affect over one's actions depend on the person?
<FlamingHorcri> he hates owing james...and living with that ....and knowing he can get rid of the guilt by paying back harry....
<gingin77> i agree with Mandi
<FlamingHorcri> was a personal thing - not even a magical thing at that point
<magicmeg8> i still think it's all connected to snape's father
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Maybe Snape can do anything to Harry, except Avada Kedavra?
<LEW> If you wholy evil, then would the life debt count?
<Mindslashed> yes
<AFhotti> but really doesn't snape help harry to?
<FlamingHorcri> I don't think you have that choice
<SoonerGryffindor> nobody except LV is wholly evil though
<Mindslashed> i dont think LV is either..
<gingin77> i dont think if LV had a life debt if he would ever repay it
<LEW> I don't think he is anymore...
<Mindslashed> but i have alot of psychological theroies going on too
<FlamingHorcri> i don't think you can CHOOSE who to accept a life debt for
<SoonerGryffindor> maybe, jury is still out on that one
<cloudpic> why don't you think he's evil
<magicmeg8> but LV isn't whole
<FlamingHorcri> now....does this mean harry has life-credit?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Snape had to help Harry
<FlamingHorcri> n/m
<LEW> He's got Harry's blood now
<cloudpic> oh
<SoonerGryffindor> lol...life credit smile
<AFhotti> lv yea he is.
<AFhotti> he is pure evil
<Mindslashed> i think taking harrys blood to regenerate just made teh connectionb between harry and tom stronger
<NickTLC> If Snape had to help Harry--is this indefinite? Does Snape have to help Harry until one of them dies naturally?
<magicmeg8> he didn't start out that way, though. he wasn't necessarily EVIL as a child
<gingin77> hmmm
<Mindslashed> i dont think snape has to help harry at all
<gingin77> thats a good one nick
<FlamingHorcri> I would say that Snape has to help Harry until he feels better
<NickTLC> And if so, why wasn't Snape forced to help Harry during situations at the Dursleys, like when Ripper chased Harry up a tree?
<gingin77> like pay back the debt a little at a time
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> How DID Snape get the life debt, anyways>
<LEW> I wouldn't think Shape would have to continually help Harry
<DorisTLC> Or until the debt is repaid in full
<Mindslashed> his debt is to james. james is dead. maybe he dosnt have a debt anymore magically and its just guilt over james and lilly's murders that keeps him watching over harry
<FlamingHorcri> because Snape didn't know where he was?
<SoonerGryffindor> my question is whether Snape feels indebted because of his code of ethics, or is it something magically binding?
<gingin77> Nick.. you would have to be in the situation to help... Snape had no idea where Harry was.. and therfore not able to helo at those times
<SusieCue> I think its guilt
<AFhotti> MINDSLASHED: i think so
<magicmeg8> i think the guilt and knowledge of having a life debt is what sticks in the debtor's mind -- i think "fulfilling" it is different in each case
<Mindslashed> james stopped snape from following lupin into teh shrieking shack ona full moon
<NickTLC> gingin--wouldn't the ancient magic nevertheless compel him to seek out Harry if Harry needed his help?
<gingin77> eh.. thats pushing it
<magicmeg8> but it's the choices we make.
<Mindslashed> no, i dont think so
<SoonerGryffindor> but will something bad magically happen if he doesn't repay the debt?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I don't think Snape has a life debt to Harry, but I definetly think it's possible.
<LEW> but getting chased up a tree wasn't a life-threatening situation
<gingin77> thats the question sooner... we need to know that answer to fully understand life debts
<NickTLC> Does the ancient magic only come into play if Snape is in proximity of Harry then?
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<SusieCue> Do we know the punishment for not repaying the debt?
<FlamingHorcri> i would say snape has to have knowledge of it
<magicmeg8> snape doesn't have to fulfill the life debt -- he has to CHOOSE whether to do it or not -- perhaps the consequences of not fulfilling a life debt are only evident after death
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> JKR has to answer a ton of questions about life debts! It's all too confusing
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<magicmeg8> lol magicalmandix
<mlwl> I know!
<SoonerGryffindor> do you need to save someone's life, per se, or just save their soul?
<LEW> what's the purpose of a life debt if you can choose to repay it?
<FlamingHorcri> i think it will somehow haunt you
<gingin77> Nick... I would think that the same would apply to Snape and james then... if the Life Debt drew you to help the person you weree indebt to Snape would have been Drawn to help James with Voldemort
<SoonerGryffindor> cause Snape did save Harry in a way when he kept Draco alive
<Mindslashed> purposeless, this that theroy is silly
<magicmeg8> you can choose not to repay credit card debt, though kel
<FlamingHorcri> I wonder - if your life is crap if you don't repay it
<magicmeg8> yeah
<FlamingHorcri> and since Snape's life is total crap.....he thinks it's the life debt
<SoonerGryffindor> well, Snape already had a crappy life
<Mindslashed> i doubt that
<FlamingHorcri> when it's really just that he can't HAVE the DADA job
<SusieCue> lol
<FlamingHorcri> and he think's it's caused by the life debt
<NickTLC> Is it something comparable to becoming soulless, like undergoing the dementor's kiss, to not repay a life debt?
<FlamingHorcri> eh i don't think so
<SusieCue> That would be fitting
<FlamingHorcri> if it can be passed down
<gingin77> no....
<mlwl> No
<mlwl> BUT
<magicmeg8> maybe. maybe it's not apparent until a certain point in one's life. who knows :P
<LEW> what if it's more than just a life debt? Snape not only owes James, but caused the death of Lily and James in a sense
<gingin77> The whole passing down thing is proving difficult
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<FlamingHorcri> LEW - i brought that up earlier - and I think that's part of Snape's issue
<FlamingHorcri> and I'm laggin hardcore
<gingin77> eh... I think Peter is more the casue of Lily and James's deaths than Snape
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<FlamingHorcri> brb
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<mlwl> I think that you would gradually become more & more bound to that person if you did not
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<mlwl> for example
<FlamingHorcri> k
<mlwl> since snape owed a life debt & did not pay it
<LEW> Snape also has a "save the innocent" theme to his character
<DorisTLC> I see not paying the debt more like a bond that would take the life of the debtor instead of the debted - if need be
<mlwl> AND hs is partially reponsible for James & Lily's deaths
<FlamingHorcri> but he didn't know that it was the Potters he was talking about
<SusieCue> true
<mlwl> he feels a stronger psychological & magical need to take care of Harry
<mlwl> yes
<gingin77> exactly Fh
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<magicmeg8> that makes sense mel
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<gingin77> thats a good point mlwl
<mlwl> but I think most normal people would realize that your actions are what brought about that death
<FlamingHorcri> but maybe the guilt of feeling responsible for James' death....and knowing that James saved him....
<mlwl> whether or not it is what he intended
<FlamingHorcri> kinda gave him a life debt x2
<FlamingHorcri> or something
<magicmeg8> i agree with you doris -- if it's a choice between the debtor and the debted, the debtor will die
<SoonerGryffindor> kinda lke interest on the credit card debt
<SusieCue> Again, I think guilt plays a big role
<gingin77> yeah i think its more of the guilt that he never got to repay James that puts Snape in debt to harry
<mlwl> good way to put it!
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<DorisTLC> I think so too. We'll see how that plays out. I can see SNAPE as the Judas of sorts. He's betrayed now he owes - but at some point he'll give himself out of guilt
<SoonerGryffindor> you know, its really got to suck owing a life debt to Harry, because he always puts himself in danger
<FlamingHorcri> wait
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Guilt plays a part in this.
<gingin77> hahahah sooner
<FlamingHorcri> that gives the impression that a life debt is FOR LIFE
<mlwl> I agree doris
<FlamingHorcri> for A life
<FlamingHorcri> hmmm
<mlwl> LOL Sooner
<SusieCue> Great illustration Doris
<FlamingHorcri> it's a forever debt to save someone?
<SoonerGryffindor> ;)
<FlamingHorcri> or someone has to save them once?
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<magicmeg8> i'm confused a bit -- we see that LV couldn't touch harry for a while because of lily's protective ancient magic -- quirrel was destroyed by that -- there was a direct action accompanied with it -- butr the whole life debt idea, being ancient magic, doesn't seem to followthat trend. then again we know little about it
<FlamingHorcri> "life debt" could be interpreted that way
<Mindslashed> so.. if a life debt is for a life, then the only way to repay it is to save a life. ...
<mlwl> sounds practical
<Mindslashed> thats what a life debt usually means
<FlamingHorcri> are you use it's not to save them for the rest of their life?
<gingin77> yeah
<Mindslashed> yes
<magicmeg8> or give up your own life?
<SoonerGryffindor> yes
<marielle> That would make no sense to be bound for our entier to save someone else
<NickTLC> Right, magicmeg, it's somehow all tied together and yet is not necessarily linear or fathomable all the way
<FlamingHorcri> well that's what I was thinkinging
<SusieCue> if necessary
<FlamingHorcri> but isn't it possible?
<DorisTLC> Exactly - and in't save it - do you give yours in it's place - or with it?f you do
<Mindslashed> this isnt the first time something called a 'life debt' made its way into fiction
<FlamingHorcri> and Lily chose to die
<FlamingHorcri> so it would only be through James
<magicmeg8> right nick -- argh to jkr and her mind benders
<magicmeg8> :d
<magicmeg8> biggrin
<DorisTLC> Mindslashed, when was the other time
<gingin77> i really want Jo to explain this
<Mindslashed> lots of times.
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Harry killed Quirrel. Harry has killed. I just realized this. I think life debt is til one of the pair dies, and I think it pertains to someone being in the position to save them, they have to.
<magicmeg8> she will explain it ... in book 7
<NickTLC> Or she might not
<LEW> Life debts are also a part of many cultures...it's not an invented idea
<SoonerGryffindor> do you guys think Snape has laredy repaid Harry?
<mlwl> yeah
<FlamingHorcri> voldemort killed quirrel didn't he?
<mlwl> no SG
<NickTLC> No doubt she'll leave some things up to our imaginations and our intellects
<FlamingHorcri> by being in his body
<Mindslashed> i used to read alot of 80's fiction and sci-fi. trust me, JK didnt come up with this on her onsey. its a tradition still carried by primitive ccultures to this day
<FlamingHorcri> and touching harry
<magicmeg8> i agree kel
<FlamingHorcri> destroyed the body
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Most of it, Meg. If not all there it'll be on her website. That's what the website is for
<FlamingHorcri> because Voldemort was only soul
<FlamingHorcri> inside a body
<gingin77> no if the life debt transfeed to harry... Snape has not repayed Harry
<DorisTLC> Other then the Biblical ones - is there one that you seeing close to this one?
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Maybe LV did kill Quirrel.
<SoonerGryffindor> but he called for help to get to the Mom
<DorisTLC> There are also Wiccan life debts, and Celtic mythological ones. The Celtic are probably closer to this one.
<Mindslashed> i think quirll just died.
<magicmeg8> lv was a parasite living off quirrel -- he had to drink unicorn's blood in order to keep alive
<SoonerGryffindor> and he kept him from killing Draco
<Mindslashed> no one killed him.. just.. death from massive damage..
<mlwl> i've never thought about that...
<SoonerGryffindor> and he got the rest of the DE's off the tower
<FlamingHorcri> he died from touching harry via the 'mothers love' thing
<FlamingHorcri> right?
<Mindslashed> life debts arent new. they're very old. so i dont think JK
<LEW> There are several African tribes that have life debts
<SoonerGryffindor> to me, all of those things saved Harry
<Mindslashed> has changed it too much
<FlamingHorcri> and then voldemort left his body for dead
<FlamingHorcri> and then you die
<FlamingHorcri> lol
<magicmeg8> right kel
<magicmeg8> lol
<FlamingHorcri> But did Snape do those intentionally
<FlamingHorcri> to save harry
<FlamingHorcri> or to save his own butt?
<SoonerGryffindor> I think so
<magicmeg8> i think the latter, kel
<FlamingHorcri> i mean if they KNEW he had the power to save harry on that jilted broom...
<FlamingHorcri> and he didn't do it....
<FlamingHorcri> he'd be responsible AGAIN
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<FlamingHorcri> and then he'd owe dudley or something
<FlamingHorcri> lol
<DorisTLC> With 10 minutes left - any final thoughts - or relavations you've come to on Snape's life debt?
<magicmeg8> haha.
<FlamingHorcri> it would be like a sideways debt transfer
<mlwl> eyeeewwwww
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<magicmeg8> i think it's important
<FlamingHorcri> I really think he's paid it back
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<FlamingHorcri> but Snape can't get over it
<gingin77> that jo really needs to explainthem
<magicmeg8> i think snape's taken too much from harry and given little back
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<FlamingHorcri> he's lived with the debt for so long that he doesn't know how to let it go
<Mindslashed> i think snapes debt is/was to james. and he has no obligation to harry except mental, non-magical guilt
<magicmeg8> i don't think it's been repaid --if the debt has been transferred from james to harry, that is
<LEW> I don't think he ever really had one...if they could be transfered, think how many people would owe others...it'd just go generation to generation and everything would compond
<Mindslashed> i seriously doubt it got transferred.
<FlamingHorcri> and eventually some would cancell each other out
<mlwl> but that would be a good thing!
<Mindslashed> unless james's dying request was for snape to take care of harry
<gingin77> yeah it hasnt been repayed if it has been transfered... if it isnt transfered.. snape only thinks it hasnt been repayed so its just his guilt working on him
<mlwl> the world would be a nicer place!
<mlwl> :)
<FlamingHorcri> i think the life debt is from Peter to harry
<gingin77> ohhhhhh thats great minds
<LEW> until you're stuck with 80 debts because your relatives sucked
<magicmeg8> ah -- but killing one's parents would lead to death as a baby -- threaten harry's life
<magicmeg8> so if snape is involved in that -- perhaps he DOES owe harry a life debt
<mlwl> LOL lew
<magicmeg8> sorry, random
<FlamingHorcri> well he gave the info - but didn't know it was the potters
<FlamingHorcri> so I don't think it counts
<magicmeg8> ok
<FlamingHorcri> except as his personal guilt
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Sorry, my computer has issues. I think Snape wanted to play the hero, and save his own butt. He had to play in character.
<Mindslashed> mostly personal guilt
<FlamingHorcri> he seems to flourish on guilt and grudge
<Mindslashed> and bitterness
<magicmeg8> he makes my mind hurt.
<Mindslashed> sooo much bitterness
<FlamingHorcri> forgive and ask forgiveness isn't in his nature
<LEW> I definately think the Peter-Harry debt is a much bigger issue
<FlamingHorcri> LEW - that's what I think too
<Mindslashed> thats why i like him... i tend to have problems letting things go..
<gingin77> i have a headache after this chat
<gingin77> too much information
<Mindslashed> i can associate myself with him
<FlamingHorcri> lol I told someone like an hour and a half ago that you guys make my brain hurt
<Mindslashed> but i dont owe anyone life debts, living, dead, or transferred
<FlamingHorcri> he just laughted at me
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<DorisTLC> Did anyone change their mind or id we all stay the same in our thinking of the entire life-debt issue?
<mlwl> LOL gingin I understand
<Mindslashed> same
<Mindslashed> but i came in late too
<FlamingHorcri> I owe a few punchings....and deserve a few back....
<mlwl> LOL
<gingin77> im still the same doris...
<FlamingHorcri> Doris - I think I'm going to have to read the books
<FlamingHorcri> hehe
<marielle> stay the same
<DorisTLC> FH - I will post a copy of the transcript for you to look over as well.
<mlwl> pretty much the same here... a couple new good ideas though@
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<magicmeg8> i'm still confused, but i think it's significant, in some way that is
<gingin77> nice
<FlamingHorcri> I still fail at reading the first 2 - so maybe i shouldn't be here...hah
<Mindslashed> well, see you all next time?
<mlwl> adieu!
<DorisTLC> I still think I'm unsure - but I know I'd like to research it. FH - you need to write an essay on this one!
<gingin77> au reviour
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<Mindslashed> wait, when IS next time?
<FlamingHorcri> Kel doesn't write essays!!!
<FlamingHorcri> she fails at writing
<FlamingHorcri> lol
<FlamingHorcri> FAIL
<magicmeg8> haha
<gingin77> next wednesday i guess
<NickTLC> http://the-leaky-cauldron.org/#static:chat
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I'm confused. But you guys "expand my mind" or however you want to put it. This is super confusing, but it's helping!
<Mindslashed> no, theres one on like, saturday
<NickTLC> There's our schedule
<DorisTLC> Saturday from 1-3 EST - every Wed - and we'll add more times soon
<gingin77> cool
<gingin77> but isnt saturday more open
<Mindslashed> my mind has been slashed to tatters a long time ago. none of this bothers me : )
<Mindslashed> ok, see you guys saturday then...
<DorisTLC> Just look at the calander on the lounge! The events will always be there
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> haha
<FlamingHorcri> that just lead me to the leaky homepage
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<SoonerGryffindor> me too
<Mindslashed> yes, but im PST
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<NickTLC> OK, click on the link for "Chat" on the sidebar under Features
<SoonerGryffindor> thanks Nick
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<DorisTLC> 11-1 PST
<FlamingHorcri> k thanks
<marielle> I will go now, goodbye
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<DorisTLC> You guys this was fun!
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<SoonerGryffindor> so did we resolve anything with this?
<magicmeg8> it was fun smile
<gingin77> not realy sooner
<gingin77> we had fun tho
<magicmeg8> lol
<SoonerGryffindor> :0
<LEW> we aren't going to resolve anything until #7, are we?
<DorisTLC> That you all need to write an essay and research this topic! HAHA
<gingin77> alright i got ot go get some dinner.....
<magicmeg8> nope.
<gingin77> i got to go get some dinner*
<magicmeg8> :d
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Super fun! We expanded out minds.
<magicmeg8> bye camie
<gingin77> hahaha very funny doris
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> Oh, Doris.
<gingin77> it would be hard
<SoonerGryffindor> Bye all
<LJ> I was sort of here too, I read most of it - but having trouble typing at the mo
<DorisTLC> There is alot to this topic - it's very deep!
<magicmeg8> laurie's always here
<FlamingHorcri> my brain hurts
<magicmeg8> smile
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<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I have to get dinner too! I feel this helps people get facts from theories.
<gingin77> alright guys.... hahaha LJ
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> All HP topics are quite broad, I think.
<FlamingHorcri> I must watch Saved by the bell to un-hurt my brain
<gingin77> i got to go eat... maybe i'll be back on the skype chat in a few
<FlamingHorcri> heh
<gingin77> but i need nourishment
<magicmeg8> i have to eat as well
<xXxMagicalMandixXx> I must eat dinner! I stayed home from school sick today.
<muggle_madness> haha, saved by the bell
<LEW> man, I remember when they weren't re-reuns...
<gingin77> eh.. phillies for me... they unhurt my brain
<ging