WWW Corner Booth Transcript: May 17, 2006, Peter Pettigrew |
 Jun 26 2006, 06:39 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Chief Cat Herder  Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!    |
*** AzraelSmurfCatcher has joined #lounge
<NickTLC> Hi, Laurie <Aislinn> Hi Laurie <LJ> Hi <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Found you! <Aislinn> Hi Azrael! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Hey! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Wait the topic is formation of a friendship for reading groups i thought it was like Wormtail or someone like that <NickTLC> !Topic Peter Pettigrew, From Pre-Canon to Book Seven <Aislinn> It is wormtail <AzraelSmurfCatcher> oic <magicmeg8> yeah, it is <magicmeg8> <NickTLC> !topic Peter Pettigrew, From Pre-Canon to Book Seven *** cairadawn has joined #lounge <Aislinn> I tried earlier, nick, but no go <NickTLC> Hmm *** tbunny has joined #lounge *** Kelazma has joined #lounge <magicmeg8> i know, it didn't work last time either <Aislinn> hi folks! <magicmeg8> hey tams and kel! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Are ya'll trying to change the topic <cairadawn> Evening Everyone <Aislinn> yes, az <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Hey ya'll <tbunny> Hi people! >:D< <Aislinn> its being stubborn <LJ> Not many people online on skype or YIM, but I sent the link to everyone who is <AzraelSmurfCatcher> oh silly stubborn topic <Aislinn> LOL <tbunny> gah.. theres my YIM brainwashing kicking in. I meant <AzraelSmurfCatcher> I have it on my calender anyway <cairadawn> Me too...I know am sad! *** mammaprince has joined #lounge <Aislinn> nope - just know the place to be! *** Belenzie has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> i have all the corner booth times marked down alog with reading group due dates <Kelazma> my house as been invaded by ants. <Kelazma> not cool <Kelazma> [/random] <AzraelSmurfCatcher> so not cool <tbunny> my house has mice. lets swap. <magicmeg8> yay az! *** Constance has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> I have voles in my yard like the moles' cousin <Belenzie> good evening everyone! <Aislinn> hi! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Good evening *** Mokey has joined #lounge <magicmeg8> hi belenzie <Belenzie> i have a half dozen feral cats <Constance> hi! <Kelazma> When I saw Constance....I instantly thought "Constance Vigilance" and made myself laugh. *** vkeaton has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Hahaha <magicmeg8> kel <Constance> Hehehe <NickTLC> Go ahead and take until ten after the hour, guys, to say hello to everyone and welcome one another <cairadawn> funny Kel <Constance> I like that phrase *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Can do Nick <DorisTLC> Hi everyone - we'll give people a few more minutes to say hello and to settle down then we'll start <magicmeg8> smile.gif <AzraelSmurfCatcher> okey doey <AzraelSmurfCatcher> opps dokey <Kelazma> So since I'm sick and behind on the times....what's our topic going to be today? <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Peter <Belenzie> ha sthe world cup started yet?? <magicmeg8> i've got to settle into the right color ... *** vkeaton has quit [Bye] <Aislinn> Peter Pettigrew <Constance> someone will need to change the topic <cairadawn> Random talking...Can do <Aislinn> that dirty rat! <magicmeg8> yeah, we're having difficulty with that, constance <AzraelSmurfCatcher> I always use marron <Aislinn> we're trying, constance <Constance> oh, ok <magicmeg8> smile.gif <AzraelSmurfCatcher> well in this 2 hours i will be again doing homework (the real kind this time around) and attempting to say in the converstation anyone else multi-tasking? *** Sidrat2006 has joined #lounge <magicmeg8> Here's the lexicon link to pettigrew -- you guys might find it useful: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/pettigrew.html *** AzraelSmurfCatcher has quit [Bye] <DorisTLC> Thanks Meg - that's a huge help <Aislinn> oops, lost azrael already <magicmeg8> no prob *** AzraelSmurfCatcher has joined #lounge <LJ> Mwegs is so organised <Constance> I'm eating; but I'm pretty much done, so no, I won't be multi-tasking <tbunny> I'm multi-tasking. I doubt I'll talk much. I lack insights on actual HP. *** Overcast has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> shoot that link made corner booth go away for a second <magicmeg8> haha the one time i'm organized <magicmeg8> sorry az <cairadawn> I wish I was organized <LJ> right click and open a new window for it <AzraelSmurfCatcher> not ur fault it's my stupid computer who can't open a link in another window <magicmeg8> ahh, i see <Sidrat2006> I'm lucky I left my computer on while making coffee or I would have missed this <magicmeg8> boo computer <Overcast> Yay! Finally made it to a chat! <magicmeg8> yay sidrat! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> that's what i did <magicmeg8> haha hey overcast <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Hey overcast! <Overcast> hey, everybody! <Sidrat2006> right click on the link select "open in new tab/window" depending on your browser version <Aislinn> Hi overcast! <Overcast> hey, what's up? *** Jacquline has joined #lounge <magicmeg8> hi jacquline <Aislinn> In a couple of minutes, we'll be starting the topic Peter Pettigrew <Belenzie> so its the ratting hour on the lounge tonight <Sidrat2006> How does this work then? <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Yeh I tried that right click thing but it like close everything I have opened anyway ...oh well... <Kelazma> Heya Jax <Jacquline> hey kel <magicmeg8> what do you mean sid? <Kelazma> We're gonna discuss Peter Pettigrew in a few minutes <Sidrat2006> ohhh nasty!! what browser are you using Azrael? <Jacquline> oh sweetness! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Road Runner <Kelazma> thought maybe you'd want to be in on some harry potter based chat for like <Kelazma> once <Kelazma> in life <tbunny> Where do we start? Just anywhere...? <Sidrat2006> Who asks the questions is it an open forum? <magicmeg8> we aren't starting just yet. <LJ> get Firefox az <Jacquline> hahaha thanks kel *** michpotter has joined #lounge <Jacquline> i was wondering why you were sending me here <LJ> it's the best <magicmeg8> hi mich <Aislinn> we're giving everyone a chance to settle in and say Hi! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> I think thats what you mean right I use RR right now <Kelazma> because this chat will make your brain think so much ;) <michpotter> hey guys <tbunny> I know we're not starting yet.. oh true. Facilitators. <magicmeg8> lol ok <LJ> hey Mich, where's Lils? <Jacquline> *gasp* i have to think? <AzraelSmurfCatcher> yeh brain over over load <michpotter> hey tams <Kelazma> The time we did life debts.... <magicmeg8> gotta keep you in line, tams <Kelazma> i had a headache <Kelazma> for the whole next week <Sidrat2006> Sorry Azrael never heard of road runner. <Kelazma> heh <michpotter> i think lils is in english <Jacquline> haha <AzraelSmurfCatcher> siriusly?!?!?! <michpotter> but she doesn't have computer access <Belenzie> meep meep!!! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Oh are you in the UK? <Sidrat2006> Perhaps on the Internet Superhighway you could use Explorer or even netscape/firefox is okay too <tbunny> yes you will. Because I'm sure you know my favourite area of discussion lacks actual concrete canon support <magicmeg8> lol <Kelazma> netscape = the devil <Kelazma> kthx <magicmeg8> well, then you can use the lex. link i gave you hahaha <Jacquline> omg kel guess what! <Kelazma> what? <Sidrat2006> true but giving one option would be wrong <Jacquline> so my group is teaching the class in journalims today <Jacquline> and i was presenting my stuff <Sidrat2006> I'm in england too <Kelazma> i use IE and FF - btw <Kelazma> Did you guys get a fire alarm? <Jacquline> and the class kept really pisising me off <Kelazma> 'cause that'd be funny <tbunny> Yes, but megs you know that'll help me find evidence... <Kelazma> did you AK them? <Jacquline> so i was like, "hey guys, we're gonna shut up and listen to me now. kthx bye." <Jacquline> in those exact words *** Mokey has quit [Bye] <NickTLC> Welcome, everyone! <Kelazma> haha! did they shut up? <Belenzie> we lost one!! <Sidrat2006> how do you pronounce kthx? <Jacquline> yeah <Kelazma> kay-thanks <AzraelSmurfCatcher> k- thanks <DorisTLC> Hey guys we're getting started in just a minute <Jacquline> and this one girl was like <Sidrat2006> My friend who taught child care to adults used to hold up a pen when the class got too noisy <tbunny> is it like "zomig" = zomg ? * tbunny prepares to start being on topic <Jacquline> "fiiine, lets go back to talking about harry potter. when's he gonna die, anyway?" <Sidrat2006> Seems strange the same technique works on children and young adults <Kelazma> lol <AzraelSmurfCatcher> hahaha <Aislinn> Everyone ready to discuss Wormtail? <Sidrat2006> Have we started the chat about Workmatil <Jacquline> so i told her if she didnt wanna pay attention she could leave the class and fail the test <Belenzie> pass the cheese! <AzraelSmurfCatcher> we are muy listo <Kelazma> score - Jax - total score <magicmeg8> I am SO ready, ais <Jacquline> and my partner kate was like, "oooh! pwned!" <Kelazma> haha <magicmeg8> alright, everyone, time for our main topic: peter pettigrew <Constance> haha <Jacquline> it was great <Kelazma> Peter <Jacquline> okay, im gone now *** LEW has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> muy listo= very ready (its spanish) <Kelazma> Peter means Rock <Jacquline> *done <AzraelSmurfCatcher> OK Peter is he gonna help Harry in book 7 or not? <Overcast> I think so. <Kelazma> Famous Peters?.....Peter Pan? <Jacquline> yeah kel, peter pan <Belenzie> i don't think someone can "live" while carrying a lifedebt <Jacquline> he's gonna fly in from neverland <magicmeg8> That makes us look at Peter's "life debt" to Harry <Belenzie> he'll have no choice <AzraelSmurfCatcher> unless he dies.... <Aislinn> I wonder what will be the tipping point for him - his life debt certainly didn't stop Peter from using Harry's blood in GoF <Sidrat2006> Peter helps the biggest bully in the playground, so if Voldy is in power that's where he'll be <Constance> I don't know; we don't know exactly how the life debt works <magicmeg8> I think if the life debt is something that one cannot flee from, then he will have to help Harry <magicmeg8> that's true, constance <tbunny> but I think it did make him try to discourage Voldemort for using Harry. <magicmeg8> (yay nick!) <Kelazma> Well there's the one in the bible who denied knowing Jesus 3 times.....I wonder if that means peter's gonna have to screw up three times before Harry can destroy him.... <Jacquline> guys i may have to go for a while <Kelazma> *pats nick on the back* <Sidrat2006> Does a life debt mean anything to a person like wormtail? <Belenzie> well maybe it only "activates" when harry is in life threatening danger and peter can knowingly interfere?? <magicmeg8> That's an interesting idea, Kel <Aislinn> that's a good question sidrat <Overcast> that's true <Sidrat2006> I would like a blue font color <AzraelSmurfCatcher> (way2go Nick) yeh maybe Belenzie <Kelazma> The first time....he like caused the death of the potters <NickTLC> Haha, life debts...methinks we've discussed those somewhere before... <magicmeg8> sidrat, press the >> button <tbunny> But the graveyard... he was in danger, and wormtail didn't do a whole heap <Kelazma> the second time he um....rebirthed the Dark Lord <Kelazma> hehe <Belenzie> remember the life occured during POA <cairadawn> Wasn't Harry's Life Theatened in GOF why didn't he help there <Sidrat2006> You're a star thank you <magicmeg8> no prob <AzraelSmurfCatcher> he couldn't under the watch of Voldy <Aislinn> right caira <LEW> That's my question...does someone have to have goodness left in their soul for a lifedebt to work? <Sidrat2006> Exactly Cairadawn, he only helps those who can kill him <Sidrat2006> he's a weasel. He'll always be a weasel <magicmeg8> What if we look at the character of Pettigrew first <Sidrat2006> no offence to weasels <magicmeg8> what are his qualities <magicmeg8> good and bad? <tbunny> Maybe harry has to ASK him to help him to call in the life debt..? <Sidrat2006> Does he have good qualities? <Belenzie> taking harry's blood was not life threatening and during the "duel" peter was no where to be seen <Kelazma> Well Peter was brave....just in the wrong way. <Sidrat2006> ohh tbunny on the mark <NickTLC> An excellent idea, Meg, and to tie into that: Why in the world was he placed into Gryffindor House? <Constance> why was he put in Gryffindor when he seems so cowardly? <Kelazma> it was very dangerous to run to Voldemort.... <magicmeg8> exactly, nick <tbunny> he's cunning, he was brave only in cowardice... <Kelazma> especially when he knew Sirius and Remus would kick his butt later <Overcast> I wonder what he was like as a kid? He was a maurader. How'd he manage that? <Sidrat2006> he couldn't run to anyone else could he <magicmeg8> we don't know WHY he chose to go with LV <Sidrat2006> who else could he have gone to? <Sidrat2006> He was supposed to be dead after all <Kelazma> I think Voldemort saw him as the weakest link <tbunny> yes but he ran to Voldi because he claimed it was only a matter of time before Voldi came after him <Belenzie> because he was scared <Aislinn> well, he told us why when he tried to justify himself in the shreiking shack, meg <AzraelSmurfCatcher> He's in Gry cause I think he was brave but as kel said in the wrong way <magicmeg8> did he? or did he plan it? <magicmeg8> yeah, i agree az <Sidrat2006> Without peter the dark lord would have had a very hard time getting his body back <cairadawn> everyone is scared and not everyone went to Voldy <Belenzie> voldy was there.and if he or another DE came and said help me or die well come on its peter <Aislinn> In what way was he brave, az <Kelazma> I think that Voldemort's DE's saw how he was mistreated.. *** stewiegryf has joined #lounge <Sidrat2006> slightly off topic but to pose the question, why was he placed in gryfindor... <Sidrat2006> I believe the hat puts you where you want to go <Kelazma> and thought...hey....this is a good way to get in with someone in the order <magicmeg8> no, that's ontopic <LEW> It doesn't seem that the sorting hat can tell good from evil, just qualities, so if he had braveness and courage, but for the wrong reasons, the sorting hat wouldn't know <tbunny> Maybe he's in there because he just doesn't fit the other houses. He's not hardworking, smart or ambitious.. <Belenzie> well sirius and remus were placed there before him......you know joining the crowd <Jacquline> okay im back <magicmeg8> He is brave, like Kel said. <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Just like Ok I will be brave enough to go to the Dark Lord (assumed by me) or brave enough to not cave in his friendship and tell his friends about Voldy gonna get em <Jacquline> i'll be in and out because my dad came home <magicmeg8> welcome back Jac <NickTLC> Is he not ambitious, then? <Sidrat2006> well I suppose he's not stupid <NickTLC> That might seem like the deciding factor <magicmeg8> yes, he's ambitious as well <tbunny> thats a really good point Belenzie. I forgot alphabetical order by surname <Jacquline> well of course hes not stupid <NickTLC> Why does he do evil things? <Sidrat2006> he likes to ride on other peoples coat tails <stewiegryf> maybe he thought gryffindor was the best house and he belonged there, kinda like neville <NickTLC> What's his motivation? <Jacquline> otherwise james and sirius and lupin wouldnt have put up with him <Belenzie> peter was the smartest of the marauders.in a wierd way <Sidrat2006> nick > survival <LEW> Betraying friends to be on the "strongest" side is abitious <Sidrat2006> outsmarted Sirius <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Peer pressure <Aislinn> agreed, sid <LEW> you don't have to be the one in charge to be ambition <michpotter> he's on the side that he thinks can give him the best protection <tbunny> but his only ambition is to be safe, and not killed. <LEW> I don't think you can make too much of a comparison with Neville <NickTLC> But Pettigrew could have survived without Voldemort, couldn't he? <AzraelSmurfCatcher> I think he is brave but can cave under those too powerful for him to out wit <Overcast> exactly, mich <Jacquline> hes in it for himself basically <Jacquline> but i wonder what finally made him give in <AzraelSmurfCatcher> yep selfish little git <michpotter> he doesn't care about anyone else just himself <Sidrat2006> So what have we got so far? He's ambitious, not stupid and is aware of daily politics <Jacquline> because i dont think he just woke up one day and was like, "hey voldy, im for you now." <magicmeg8> right. <tbunny> I really don't think he's actually that brave. I think a death eater got onto him and sold it to him like it would be brave and noble, and he bought it. <Kelazma> psst.......it's our choices..... <Kelazma> kthx <Kelazma> You can be someone who's not the best....and still choose to be good <stewiegryf> betraying the potters could also be seen as brave, in some sense... <Sidrat2006> His character is redeemable after all <magicmeg8> We don't know much about Pettigrew's school years, by the way. <stewiegryf> evil and twisted, but brave *** scottw has joined #lounge <Jacquline> a lot of things had to have happened for him to finally make that decision *** anguinea has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> The final cave- the pressure of Voldy/ death eaters/ knowing if he backs down he dies(again selfish) <Belenzie> he felt left out.....i'm only speculating but by the time harry was born Remus was prolly already shunned and now james had his son, and james always liked sirius the best so now peter was alone.....and voldy wanted him....all peter needed was to be needed <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Hey anguinea! <tbunny> I think it could be brave, but I don't think it was particulary brave in this case. I doubt it was his own inititive. <anguinea> hi! <LEW> But were these cowerdice and greedy traits acquired after the sorting? <NickTLC> Here's another question to do with Pettigrew's motivation: Why was he made the secret-keeper for the Potters? <magicmeg8> That's an interesting idea, belenzie <magicmeg8> hi anguinea <LEW> people do change alot from 11 to 20 (stating the obvious) <AzraelSmurfCatcher> (yah room 27) ok maybe LEw, maybe they grew with time <Jacquline> thats a very good question <cairadawn> It was not expected <tbunny> another good point Belenzie. LEW, do you mean from his jelousy of the others? <Belenzie> thanks Magic <magicmeg8> smile.gif <NickTLC> What did Dumbledore and the Potters have to gain by making him secret keeper rather than someone with a stronger will and less ambition? <Sidrat2006> people change a lot from 11 to 13 <magicmeg8> I'm not sure, Nick *** Pleshette has joined #lounge <michpotter> wasn't it because sirius told james and lily that peter would be a better secret keeper <cairadawn> No one would think to ask Petter <magicmeg8> Perhaps there was pressure from the order *** scottw has quit [Bye] <stewiegryf> i think it was because nobody would have suspected him to be the secret keeper. kind of another failsafe <AzraelSmurfCatcher> hmm probably they could over power him forcing him to keep the secret <Sidrat2006> It was sirius idea after all, I'm not sure DD had any knowledge <tbunny> Dumbledore didn't get consulted.. thats what I thought <Overcast> I thought he was made secret keeper because it would be obvious to everyone that Sirius would have been <Belenzie> less obvios....like they all said why would voldy believe a weakling like peter would be made the secret keeper <LEW> jealousy of others, their power or even their more redeeming characteristics <NickTLC> Do you think it was more risk than reward to make him secret keeper? <NickTLC> It would seem that way to me <Constance> because he wasn't the most likely choice -- or so they thought at the time. Everyone thought it was Black. They figured Black could protect himself; and made Peter secret-keeper instead. <michpotter> i agree nick <Jacquline> well whomever they chose would be a risk <anguinea> i think it was a terrible risk. a foolish risk. <tbunny> perhaps they thought if they didn't show peter they trusted him then he would become a traitor, and didn't realise he was already <magicmeg8> true <Jacquline> they didnt know who was betraying them <AzraelSmurfCatcher> I don't know at this point I feel like I am pointing out the cons of my other points...brain already in pain! <anguinea> the weren't counting on him holding out <NickTLC> But why not Lupin or Aberforth or Moody? Why Pettigrew? <stewiegryf> in hindsight, yes nick, but probably not at the time <Sidrat2006> I wonder if anyone really knows someone to be their real life secret keeper? <anguinea> they were counting on him being not being considered <CarpeDiem> Perhaps we have never seen the Peter Petrigrew that the other Marauders grew up with. Perhpaps this "change" is new. <Belenzie> but what i want to know is who brought up the idea in the first place?? <Jacquline> and remember, everyone thought that sirius betrayed the potters <Jacquline> and sirius said that the potters thought it was lupin <Sidrat2006> that's only because they thought he was the secret keeper <michpotter> because the potters thought that know one would think to ask pettigrew <Jacquline> they didnt know who to trust <LEW> It was definatley more of a risk because the secret keeper has to go into hiding, but I would think Peter would talk them into it because he was already in league with LV *** Priscilla has joined #lounge <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Yeh the perfect set up make it look like bad boy Sirius did it <magicmeg8> hi priscilla <Priscilla> Hi all <Kelazma> I don't think that Peter could set something like that up *** Poet has joined #lounge <tbunny> They thought they had a leak in the order, and they weren't sure who. Maybe peter shouldn;t even have known the other imnformation that got leaked <Jacquline> see i dont think it was like that lew <anguinea> i don't think peter was ever good gryffy material... <NickTLC> And perhaps the best question--why not Dumbledore? <Kelazma> without some sort of help from someone else <anguinea> but maybe he got to choose, like harry did <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Well conquenceidence.....sp? <Kelazma> because Dumbledore needed to be out in the public? <anguinea> maybe he was too gutless to even be a slytherin <Kelazma> Dumbledore needed to be out there helping people? <tbunny> I think so too Anguinea. He probably whined until the hat put him there. <magicmeg8> Maybe DD's power was too great to risk? <cairadawn> Every would think that DD knew it would DD into danger more then he already is <Sidrat2006> you can be a secret keeper in public <michpotter> DD would have been the obvious choice though <Pleshette> Was Dumbledore secret keeper for the Order at that time? <Kelazma> Yes, but you can still sneak up on DD <stewiegryf> I'm sure he was... <LJ> DD would have been a good choice, he seems too obvious - therefore people probably wouldn't have suspected him <Jacquline> i would assume he was <Sidrat2006> Harry says DD has enough to worry about, so even at that point in time, why lay that on him? <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Dumbledore .... hmm do we know how close James and DD really were? <LEW> How many other things is DD the secret keeper for, though? <anguinea> DD offered though, right. <NickTLC> Remember, Dumbledore was younger and more spry back then than he is in the series <anguinea> DD made the mistake of trusing James' judgement <stewiegryf> Dumbledore might have been too busy with things at the time <Kelazma> Maybe at the time... <Sidrat2006> if it was DD there would never have been seven books <Kelazma> it was done quickly <Pleshette> Can you be secret keeper for two different people at one time? Is that allowed? <stewiegryf> you know, fighting voldie... <Kelazma> like an emergency. <Kelazma> they didn't say how long they'd been living under that protection <tbunny> maybe peter asked to be secret keeper. Maybe he said he felt a little left out or something.. <Kelazma> maybe they needed to do it RIGHT NOW.....and just did it <Belenzie> i think peoples perception on the sorting hat is wrong, and its not just your qualities it sees but what you believe you are...as well that why its so long for certain people....because They don't know where they belong and the hat is just a helper..the final decision is your own...even though subconciously <Kelazma> right there and now. <Poet> Dumbledore is at Hogwarts, so it would be difficult for him to get to people to tell them the location of the Potters - very inconvenient. <Sidrat2006> I always assumed it was within twenty four hours <anguinea> exactly belenzie <Kelazma> and called Peter in to do it? <LEW> I'm sure you can keep more than one secret, but the more you get, the bigger burden <anguinea> choice <stewiegryf> the lexicon has it at about a week that they lived with wormtail as secret keeper <magicmeg8> That makes a lot of sense poet <tbunny> I bet he would have been hanging around them as much as possible too. <tbunny> but poet- he could do it by writing. <Sidrat2006> hmm, the potters sirius and peter. Was anyone else there at the time? *** Narya has joined #lounge <LEW> that's what we don't know Sidrat <Belenzie> i think remus was "gone by then <Kelazma> Well they had thought their secrets were getting to Voldy through Remus...so he wouldn't be there *** accio_lily has joined #lounge <tbunny> not that we know, and I think Sirius would have mentioned if they were. Because he could have used them to clear his name. <AzraelSmurfCatcher> [random] Why a rat? Did he choose that form? [/random[ <Poet> I wouldn't trust paper to be sent by owl <LJ> I think it was more for the plot that DD wasn't the secret keeper - the Potters needed to be betrayed and killed for the story, with DDvthey wouldn't have been <Belenzie> stupid hypcrits <Belenzie> *hypocrites <Sidrat2006> they really suspected remus lupin? <Belenzie> ...james and sirius <Jacquline> yeah they suspected lupin <Constance> you don't choose your animagus form <tbunny> Az, they don't choose their form. It's kinda like their personality or something. I guess it's a small, cunning kinda form. <Sidrat2006> are you sure? <Overcast> That's another thing, they trusted Wormtail but not Lupin? <Poet> exactly LJ <Jacquline> yes im sure <Pleshette> I know! That seems odd doesn't it? <Jacquline> it says so in the books <AzraelSmurfCatcher> Oh I knew that.... <Belenzie> rat= survivor <michpotter> hey lils <Constance> you just work at it, and find it out only when you are it <LEW> Jacquline, how are you sure? <Sidrat2006> Oh I think they suspected everyone <AzraelSmurfCatcher> are rats selfish? *** Narya has quit [Bye] *** mammaprince has quit [Bye] <Jacquline> they didnt know who to trust <anguinea> they thought wormtail was too stupid and chicken to be a DE <Sidrat2006> rats are family creatures <Poet> Lupin has his time of the month <Jacquline> im sure there was a lot of stuff going on <accio_lily> I'm pretty sure that there was a lot going on as to why they trusted Peter, not Lupin that we don't know about yet... <Jacquline> remember they were losing the war <Belenzie> but the whole werewolf thing screwed it for remus <Jacquline> a lot of things were happening every day <LEW> If that was their opinion of Wormtail, then why would they choose him to protect their lives? <Poet> The Potters had no idea that it would only be month before being betrayed - had to think long-term <tbunny> They like hording... I personally think rats can be really cute. But thats a little off topic . In the wild they'll eat each other, but most animals do that. <accio_lily> I don't think they didn't trust him because he was a werewolf <anguinea> he wouldn't be a target...that's all. <anguinea> the dark lord would never suspect wormtail <Sidrat2006> tbunny, that's just a survival trait <anguinea> who would <Jacquline> i think theres a lot more to it than that <accio_lily> they knew of that for a long time, there must have been some other reason? <Sidrat2006> you eat what you've got. <Belenzie> its a prejudice that was brought forth.....old habits die hard you know <magicmeg8> Yes, let's expand on Pettigrew's animagus form <stewiegryf> they probably thought he would be the last person to betray, too, besides sirius... <Kelazma> I think they didn't trust him only because they didn't think that Peter would do it....and with Sirus' experiences with the "dark side"...he wouldn't do it <Poet> Yes - rats can vanish more easily. <Sidrat2006> Humans could eat each other with no ill health, it's just polite not to <Belenzie> rats are Survivors <Kelazma> *dies* <Overcast> While reading Book Three before we find out about Scabbers didn't Harry say something about Wormtail reminded him of Neville? That might have just been me though <magicmeg8> good <Jacquline> yes, thankyou kel <anguinea> they are opportunists <LEW> In PoA Lupin says that they needed someone small to push the knob that froze the tree <Belenzie> yeah i think he did <Jacquline> yeah overcast he did <tbunny> I know that Sid, I'm a rat fan normally. But even normally they''ll eat the wierdest things. I agree that he was probably given that form for plot as well as survival aspects of being a rat. <AzraelSmurfCatcher> bravery??? kinda <AzraelSmurfCatcher> he went ot push the button *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] <AzraelSmurfCatcher> ..ok not really <magicmeg8> So, Pettigrew's rat animagus was directly connected to the Marauder's entrance into the Shrieking Shack -- he was needed. <Poet> Harry didn't know what Peter looked like...so he imagined Neville - when he thought Peter had been brave and confronted Sirius and died for it. <AzraelSmurfCatcher> he was used <LEW> it was also a plot point <accio_lily> He was a necessary animagus, without him it wouldn't have worked <Sidrat2006> not really remus was escorted to the tunnel, they used the long stick remember *** Narya has joined #lounge <tbunny> but crookshanks managed to do it. They could have just used a stick anyway. <Belenzie> well that was coincidental....for all they new he could of changed in to abear..and then where would they of been with pressing the knot?? <accio_lily> And it would be odd for the Weasly family to have a pet Stag... <Sidrat2006> they did, just like Snape <Jacquline> so heres a question. why were james, sirius, and remus friends with him in the first place. nbecause it said that it used to be just the three of them <accio_lily> *Weasley <tbunny> I think they were friends because they were in the same year at school <AzraelSmurfCatcher> maybe they pity him <Kelazma> they roomed with him <Kelazma> if that's how it still worked. <Belenzie> i say it happened on the train ride to hogwarts *** mammaprince has joined #lounge <tbunny> and they felt a little sorry for him and they liked having someone look up to them. <magicmeg8> It's interesting that Pettigrew is really needed <anguinea> they tolerated him because they loved having a fan... <LEW> It's hard to press a knot without opposable thumbs if you're not small enough to get to the trunk <Kelazma> but I wonder who was their 5th.....in the room, eh? *** stewiegryf left #lounge [] <AzraelSmurfCatcher> ok be bac l8r <accio_lily> Yeah, god point Kel <Constance> he hang around with them; for protection, and he just looked up to them <Belenzie> that train makes and breaks bonds and friendships <accio_lily> good <Sidrat2006> well peter was being bullied and James and sirius kinda looked after him. <Overcast> he was just there. He wanted to belong to a group with strong memberrs and that was the Mauraders <AzraelSmurfCatcher> maybe there was no 5th ok g2g <Sidrat2006> From that point on he was just their shadow <Aislinn> there weren't necessarily 5 that year *** AzraelSmurfCatcher has quit [Bye] <Jacquline> yeah i dont think there was a 5th <Kelazma> true. but it does seem to be set up that way <tbunny> maybe there were only 4 that year Kel. actually thats probably it. it was easier to include him than have to go elsewhere to plan their pranks. <anguinea> he was bullied? <accio_lily> I think there probablyt was, there generally is, isn't there? *** magicmeg8 left #lounge [] <anguinea> by whom? <Narya> We don't know that Peter was bullied ... <Jacquline> there doesnt have to be five *** magicmeg8 has joined #lounge <Sidrat2006> if not bullied then certainly ignored <Jacquline> it never said there has to be five <accio_lily> I seem to remember something about Peter being bullied? <LEW> No, JKR has never set a number for the number of students per house per year <Belenzie> i wonder what Lily's take on peter was?? <tbunny> maybe he was picked on on the train for some reason. <Kelazma> I know there doesn't HAVE to be, the books just seem to be set up that way a lot. <Narya> Not necessarily ignored either ... <Narya> Maybe just quiet, when set next to James and Sirius <Sidrat2006> this is school we're talking about Narya <Kelazma> anyways - what if they met the same way that Neville and Hermione met....sorta <Jacquline> see i dont think it was on the train that they bwecame friends <Narya> I know we are talking about school <Sidrat2006> You're either bullied, included or a big show off that makes people laugh <accio_lily> It's definately possible <Jacquline> because it was just sirius, james, and remus at first <Kelazma> (testing colors) <accio_lily> *definitely <Jacquline> so there needs to be a time period with just the three of them <Aislinn> do we know it was just the 3 at first? <Kelazma> I wonder if James and Sirius knew each other before <CarpeDiem> Was there an account of Peter in the memory in Snape's pensive? <Belenzie> i think it would of been james, sirius, and peter first and then remus <Sidrat2006> well if was all four by the fifth year <Jacquline> yeah sirius or remus said it...somewhere <Narya> I get a sense of Peter joining the quartet later <tbunny> where do you get that from Jacquline? <Belenzie> remus didn't want to get close with anyone <accio_lily> So did I, Narya <Jacquline> brb guys <tbunny> I think it's just that he always seemed a little bit of a tag-along, didn't quite fit. <Sidrat2006> they walked out of the exam together and can we establish how long it took Peter to be an animagus <NickTLC> Why did Sirius, James, and Remus befriend Peter, then, if he was anything but comparable to them? <Narya> Sirius and James were always close, then Remus came along, Peter last, but JKR has yet to confirm that one <Narya> Don't know - that's the interesting point <Belenzie> i still say it was remus last <LEW> They lived together - I think that has a lot to do with it <Narya> I don't think Remus was last - but that might just be me <Sidrat2006> so they could have known each other from year one, or peter got to gether in year two <accio_lily> They liked to have him around to praise them, and make them feel powerful, perhaps? <Overcast> Maybe they too kpity on him. Some nice kid that wanted to hang with the cool guys. <magicmeg8> That's a possibility, lily <Sidrat2006> good point lilly <Sidrat2006> sorry lilly <Sidrat2006> it's late my end <magicmeg8> <LEW> No one ever seemed particularly fond of him - in any of the backstory - until they thought he had died fighting Sirius <Belenzie> , for all we kno it was sirius last.....you know "tu jours Pur" and he bace a gryff, he was the outcast....not peter...........hah thats a scary thought <Aislinn> Was taking the risk of learning to be an animagus a sign of Peter's bravery? <accio_lily> Because he was quite a crawler, and James did have a big head at the time <Poet> Do you think Peter's shortness of stature might have partially led to his status in the 4some? <Sidrat2006> well that would be quite brave <michpotter> that's a good point poet <Poet> Shortness - made him semi-inferior? <tbunny> ( oh lily is here, Hi lils) Thats a really good point Aislinn, I think it shows the lengths he'll go for the proctection of being included in a group <Narya> I don't think Peter was ever brave - he just didn't like to be left behind <Belenzie> maybe jamesjust liked the fanfare <Overcast> I don't think so. He just wanted to belong. So he decided to become one. <anguinea> i agree... <Narya> I really don't like him much at all *** Poet has quit [Bye] <Sidrat2006> the smaller kids in school were always the loudest but closest to the bigger boys so they could protect them. *** Poet has joined #lounge <magicmeg8> I think it would require bravery in order to make yourself an animagus -- at least a fair amount of risk <Aislinn> someone told us that it was risky learning to be an animagus - that it could go horribly wrong(Dumbledore?) <anguinea> or goading <Kelazma> you can take risk and not be brave <Kelazma> you can take risk by being stupid <Narya> Risk, yes, but Peter wasn't brave - he's never been brave <LEW> And it's also illegal, so that's also a risk <Sidrat2006> no don't think it was DD <Kelazma> you can take risk by being pressured <tbunny> McGonagal. <Belenzie> het he bit goyle!!! why did he bite thats awwwwwwww brave for a rat isn't it?? <magicmeg8> or hermione <Sidrat2006> Remus might have mentioned it to harry in the shack <Narya> Hermione, I think <Constance> Hermione most likely <anguinea> they were his "protectors" but that doesn't preclude them picking on him. <Poet> He wouldn't want to be left behind - so he had good incentive to try very hard to become an animagus <accio_lily> Peer pressure on Peter's part - He had to be in the 'group' (Hi Tams, took you long enough) *** DorisTLC has quit [Bye] <anguinea> he bit goyle and got smacked into a window! <Narya> Checked - it was Remus <Overcast> does bravery come when doing something for the good side? He's done things for the DE's and Voldy that could be considered brave. <Aislinn> thanks, narya <tbunny> Rats bite alot if they're startled. He probably was mostly rat more than man then, and he'd just disappointed ron by not turning yellow. (or were those in different books?) <Belenzie> exactly anguinea <magicmeg8> Very true, overcast <Narya> No, to me Peter has never been brave <Narya> There's a difference between the DEs and the Order <anguinea> if he saw that coming...he might have thought twice! <anguinea> lol <Poet> Different books tbunny <Narya> He's venal and cunning - there's no bravery there <Overcast> He is the one that actually went out to find Voldy. Brave? Stupid? Selfish? All of the above, i thing <Aislinn> he does things for the dark side out of fear of reprisal for not doing them, imo <magicmeg8> Voldemort's power was limited when he came back into power -- Wormtail could have ignored ihim. <accio_lily> I agree, Aislinn <Narya> Selfish and cunning, combined with cowardice *** CarpeDiem left #lounge [] <LEW> Narya, why is there a difference? <accio_lily> he only acts to save his own skin <michpotter> bye guys *** mprater306 has joined #lounge <NickTLC> So he is cunning, then? <Narya> Hmmmm.... it's a choice of the heart <Belenzie> i say leaving your "friends" and going to the darkest wizard in 30 years is brave in a way....stupid but brave <Narya> I think <anguinea> he was looking to get in on the ground floor with voldy <Aislinn> exactly accio <Narya> Not bravery - he knew what he was doing was wrong *** michpotter has quit [Bye] <tbunny> hah thanks poet. I agree with Narya. I think he;s been desperate and willing to go to extreme lengths but not brave <Narya> There was nothing brave in that <LEW> But that doesn't have to do with "bravery", "intelegence" or anything like that, just good and evil <Belenzie> why not??? <Narya> If he was brave, he would have defied LV <accio_lily> Oh, that's my call to leave. It's been a great discussion – bye! <Belenzie> he was scared <Narya> Like James and Lily, and Frank and Alice, and so many others did *** accio_lily has quit [Bye] <Sidrat2006> He'd just been discovered as being alive. The Order would have made him tell everyone everything he'd have been locked up in Azkaban.. <Sidrat2006> so where else could he have gone? <tbunny> If he knew he was betraying them and that they would die, then that could be brave... or it could be that he values his life more than theirs <Narya> He values his own skin - Sirius confirmed it <LEW> But once again, you use "wrong" which implies morals, but note pure traits. And if he is consciously making the decision, that's even more telling <LEW> note = not <Narya> I think he knows exactly what he's doing <Overcast> Then again, doing something that's considered brave for the good side...wouldn't that also be done out of selfishness? <magicmeg8> Sirius was right, but I don't think that nullifies the idea of peter as brave. <Narya> He's never been selfless <Aislinn> it depends on motivation, doesn't it? Why he made the choices he did? <Sidrat2006> is it brave to die for your friends and loved ones? Yeah I suppose it would be more brave to fight alongside them though <Belenzie> oh and what draco did in HBP wasn't brave??? i think you can find a lot of parrelels between those good and bad <Sidrat2006> what do you mean Narya? <NickTLC> Do you guys think that Peter may have performed some act while at Hogwarts that we don't know about yet that may vindicate his placement into Gryffindor? <LEW> But that doesn't refute the fact that he can still be brave, even if you don't agree with his actions *** beadgirl has joined #lounge <magicmeg8> That's what I was thinking, Nick! <Narya> Might have done, Nick - but I doubt it *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge <tbunny> well it's definately not noble, I don't think he agrees or ebven has an opinion on keeping blood pure so it can't be for those reasons. <Narya> I think it has yet to come in book seven - if it comes at all <Sidrat2006> Oh I think he plays a big part in B7 <Poet> Running around as an animagus was certainly brave - even when one's small like a rat. <Sidrat2006> Maybe even like a golum character, but I hope the parralels to that book isn't there <tbunny> I think if he had then he'd have tried to use that to save his life in POA <Narya> For me, he has to do something which is selfless, without counting the cost to himself <Narya> Otherwise - why bother <Narya> And his wizard debt remains unpaid <Belenzie> i think the fact that peter has only made one appearence and had a total of like four lined devoted to him in two books shows that something big is gonna happen with him <anguinea> maybe the difference is "nerve" which can be good or bad, but "brave" implies a moral choice. <anguinea> peter has "nerve" <Narya> Yes, I agree, anguinea <Sidrat2006> do you think that sort of character cares about his life debt? <Poet> The mauraders were almost caught many times - very risky <NickTLC> I like that, anguinea <Narya> He'll have to if he ever wants to repay it, Sidrat <LEW> But you're attaching your own set of morals to the definition....there are many ruthless tyrants and leaders who have done brave things, by definition <Belenzie> thats it i'm going to dictionary . com <tbunny> but they were brave because they believed they were morally right <Sidrat2006> alright then, does he care about repaying it? <Narya> I don't think tyrants are brave at all - but that's only my opinion <tbunny> Peter knew this was morally wrong but still did it. hence not brave <LEW> Brave means at great risk to yourself <magicmeg8> Peter is not what I'd call a tyrant. <beadgirl> i think that he will do something to repay his debt to harry <Narya> I think true bravery implies morality as well <Aislinn> what do you see as being brave choices that Peter has made? <CarpeDiem> Good question Sid. Would you trust a DE to repay a debt? <tbunny> lol Meg. <magicmeg8> smile.gif <Constance> Yes. Dumbledore said it was an ancient magic, very powerful <Sidrat2006> only to the dark lord <Overcast> I looked up bravery and it's defined as doing something courageous. I looked up courageous and it's defined as not deterred by danger or pain. <Sidrat2006> Thanks overcast <Narya> thanks Overcast <LEW> I'm just going on definition, which has no implications of right or wrong <Sidrat2006> we can actually say he's neither brave or courageous <Narya> yes, we can <beadgirl> knowing peter, he will care about danger and pain <Poet> You have to be brave to sky dive - can be moral-less situations too <Narya> Peter only cares for Peter - at the moment *** michpotter has joined #lounge <tbunny> Thanks overcast. Peter was motivated by danger and pain.. (Do this or I'll crucio you!) <Sidrat2006> you don't have to be brave to sky dive! *** mprater306 left #lounge [] <LEW> yes, Poet <Narya> Motivated by cowardice, too <Sidrat2006> You have to be brave to try and tackle a hijacker at 25000 feet though <Poet> So...Peter cutting off his own had would be brave I guess. <LEW> If you're scared to do something, and you do it, then is that not bravery? <Overcast> he did cut off his hand. <Narya> Not brave, no, but again - I don't like him at all or anything he's done <michpotter> but he was doing for himself as well, becaus he knew that if he didn't LV would have killed him <Belenzie> yes and after being with the order for however long wouldn't he KNOW the pain and danger that would cause himself by going to him??? compared to staying wuth the order...so he's brave <anguinea> courageous? <Narya> He cut off his hand because he was scared for himself <michpotter> exactly narya <beadgirl> i agree with narya <Narya> There is nothing brave in siding with LV <anguinea> better to sacrifice a hand...than his life <Sidrat2006> He couldn't go back to the order because they would have turned him in to prison <Aislinn> Do people feel that Peter made the choice to seek out LV, or that he was recruited? <CarpeDiem> If Peter was doing this all for Dumbledore. If he is a double agent. Would that be considered coragous? *** Elwen_Andfin has joined #lounge <Narya> So cowardice motivated him - and venality <Aislinn> Originally, i mean <Sidrat2006> There may not be anything brave fighting for or against one side either <Overcast> being scared doesn't mean your not brave. <magicmeg8> good quetsion, Aislinn! <tbunny> there could be something brave if you honestly believed it was the right side in the war and weren't doing it for self0-fish reasons <Constance> he didn't do it out of "pure loyalty" or anything like it; he was afraid of gettng killed if he doesn't obey <Poet> Ah! Pain either way with the hand-cutting - I get it : <anguinea> that's right, overcast <Overcast> Dumbledore said something about that, I think <LEW> If you consider Snape corageous and brave for being a double agent, then you have to for Peter as well <tbunny> I think he was approached, or heard something about people being approached which put the thought in his mind. <michpotter> he knew that if he didn't go back to LV he would have been killed <magicmeg8> I think we underestimate peter -- perhaps he DID think about betraying the potters beforehand <Aislinn> what about originally though, mich? *** Elwen_Andfin has quit [Bye] <LEW> I agree with Meg <Belenzie> i think peter was brave but greatly misguided <Narya> Peter was underestimated by many, unfortunately <Sidrat2006> I think the Dark Lord said it in the graveyard, He was the only person he (peter) could have gone to <michpotter> i agree with meg, he thought about betraying the potters before he did <anguinea> if snape was found out by LV, he would have been killed. if peter was found out by DD...he would have gone into the justice system *** Titi has joined #lounge <Narya> There's no comparison between Peter and others who are truly brave <Titi> hi <Belenzie> he culd of killed crookshanks and everything would of been honky dorey........untill sirius showed up <LEW> It was a VERY short time between the bond and the Potter's death, and it was stated that not even the order knew about the switch <tbunny> I still think he may have run into a Death Eater or been menaced by one and tempted. <beadgirl> i wonder what his motivations were to go to LV and the dark side <Narya> Something LV offered him, beadgirl <magicmeg8> As do I, beadgirl <LJ> LV was winning, he feared for himself and thought that he would be safer with the Dark Lord, I beleve he seeked him out (or a DE) <Narya> Made it impossible for him to refuse <michpotter> he thought that the dark side offered him more protection <Titi> i think hes a bad friend <Sidrat2006> just what LJ said <Aislinn> Is it possible that LV recognized Peter as the weak link of the Maurauder's and deliberately exploited that? <Constance> could he have killed Crookshanks? did he have a wand at that time? <Belenzie> he wasn't needed anymore.........and voldy needed him, and petere felt his purpose was nto be needed....sad but i think true <Overcast> He's definitely a bad friend. <Narya> Yes, Aislinn - definitely <michpotter> thats a good point aislinn <Titi> yei <Sidrat2006> Belenzie made a good point <Sidrat2006> A person like that would do anything to feel needed and wanted <tbunny> Thats just what he says LJ. I doubt he'd have said "Lucuis told me that i'd be respected and get to hang with the cool kids and not get killed or ignored" *** futureweasley has joined #lounge <Narya> And Sirius recognised that too - but he wanted to keep James and Lily safe, so he persuaded them to make the sitch <Belenzie> thanks sidrat <cairadawn> But he was needed he was the secret keeper <futureweasley> hi everyone!! <tbunny> I bet snape told them Peter was the weak link <Sidrat2006> he wouldn't want to be needed by the "loosing side" *** Priscilla has quit [Bye] <Narya> I think they worked that out for themselves <michpotter> that's a good point tams. <Titi> voldy?? you ere talking about the darkest wizard ever, not about a pet !!!! <Overcast> maybe it was too late by the time he became secret keeper? <magicmeg8> Peter would have been the weakest link of the bunch -- the least loyal <Belenzie> i don't think snape knew <CarpeDiem> I think you're correct Aislinn, even if he was not the secret keeper he would be the one targeted by LV for information about who was. <Aislinn> Is that why he switched - he thought the balance was tipping to LV's side? <cairadawn> They must have trusted him at least a bit to make the switch to him <michpotter> i think snape would have known, remember that both DD and LV trusted snape at ths time <tbunny> he was at school with them. I think it's obvious. Just from the Snapes worst memory scene... <Sidrat2006> He admits that much in the shack Aislinn <Narya> He switched to where he thought there was most power, and to the wizard who would give him what he wanted <Jacquline> hey im back <Belenzie> but did peter come up with the idea of himself coming secret keeper or was james or sirius...i think thats important <Sidrat2006> welcome back *** Priscilla has joined #lounge <Narya> Sirius suggested it to James and Lily *** Poet has quit [Bye] <Sidrat2006> sirius suggested it, back in the shack *** Poet has joined #lounge <Titi> where are you guys from? <Sidrat2006> lol that's where he tells harry *** beadgirl has quit [Bye] <Narya> Trying to protect them and put LV off their trail <cairadawn> It was Sirius that suggested it?? <tbunny> be back soon. <futureweasley> Yes <michpotter> siruis suggested that they make peter the secret keeper because no one would suspect him <Narya> yes, cairadawn <Poet> Titi - it's a discussion about Peter Pettigrew <cairadawn> okay I missed that <Sidrat2006> yes sirius tells harry in the shack that it was his idea to make peter the SK <Titi> ok sorry <Jacquline> now here's an interesting question. did LV actively seak out peter, or did peter go to him <magicmeg8> no problem, titi <Overcast> I always thought Peter went to him <Titi> well about him i hate him for killing cedric <Narya> That's something we need to find out - I think a bit of both <Belenzie> yes but what put that idea in sirius' head.wouldn't that mean sirius couldn't trust himsel with the info....that he was scared??? <Titi> and he has to end up dead <Sidrat2006> I think LV cornered Peter, and made him be a double agent <Jacquline> yeah i agree <Narya> Not scared, just trying to protect his best friends <NickTLC> How is Peter used, if at all, as a foil for Snape? Is Snape anything (or everything) that Peter is not? How has Snape succeeded where Pter feailed? <Titi> me too <Narya> Snape is a much cleverer wizard <Belenzie> g2g bye all <Titi> hes more like a servant <Constance> what is "foil" *** LEW has quit [Bye] <Constance> I don't undertsand this usage *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] <Belenzie> contrast <Jacquline> oh god, im gonna get a headache thinking about this <Narya> Like a contrast, Constance *** Belenzie has quit [Bye] <Sidrat2006> according to his story during the shack he wanted people to think it was he who was SK, but using Peter would give them time to regoup <NickTLC> A foil is a term in drama for a character used to make a comparison <Titi> he might soon make a swith to the good guys <Overcast> Ah, Snape <Kelazma> Or Peter is doing the same thing to Snape that Snape believes he's doing for Peter......keeping an eye on him <Kelazma> making sure he's not flipping sides....again <magicmeg8> Titi mentioned that Peter is like Snape's servant, and I think that's right <Titi> yes <michpotter> oh that's a good point kel <Jacquline> so they're both kinda watching eachother, kel <Jacquline> ? <Sidrat2006> I don't think the dark lord trusts anyone <magicmeg8> That's interesting, Kel -- a lot of tension between the two <Overcast> hmm, that's a tough one. <Kelazma> I always assumed that each of them believed they were keeping an eye on the other for the Dark Lord <Sidrat2006> not even snape <Titi> and he's abussing of him <cairadawn> Oh don't think Petter would go back to the good side <NickTLC& --------------------  To listen and share great filks, check out Swishandfilk.com New stuff: Nina's Piece of Me, MJ's Return to Forever & my Now We'll See |
 |
  
 
|
