WWW Corner Booth Transcript: Jan 31, 2007, The Hero's Journey |
 Jan 31 2007, 09:09 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter  Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner   |
Tonight's Chat Moderators: fawkes28, Aislinn, MrMcGonagall, futureweasley, Poet, SoonerGryffindor
[18:59] *** ltbrave23 has joined #lounge [19:00] *** ltbrave23 has quit [Bye] [19:00] *** kaelgirl has joined #lounge [19:00] <Aislinn> hi kaelgirl [19:00] <SoonerGryffindor> hello [19:01] *** huebbe has joined #lounge [19:01] <Aislinn> hey huebbe [19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> hello huebbe [19:01] <huebbe> hey all! [19:01] <huebbe> how are we this fine day? [19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> cold [19:01] <Aislinn> just fine - trying to stay warm [19:01] <Aislinn> :lol: [19:02] *** Pellinore has joined #lounge [19:02] <Aislinn> laugh [19:02] <huebbe> amen [19:02] <SoonerGryffindor> hi Pellinore [19:02] <Aislinn> hi pellinore [19:02] <Pellinore> howdy [19:02] <huebbe> hi pell [19:02] <Pellinore> went looking for Fortescue as part of the gun powerder treason and could only find a reference to a Rookwood. Might be what i was remembering. [19:03] <futureweasley> hello? [19:03] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [19:03] <SoonerGryffindor> hey hf [19:03] *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] [19:03] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [19:03] <huebbe> before we start, could any of you smart people out there send me some of your brains? I am going to teach a class on harry....I need lots of stuff [19:03] *** ltbrave23 has joined #lounge [19:03] <harryfreak359> Heya everyone! [19:03] <Pellinore> Use lots of Rogain [19:03] <Aislinn> hi harryfreak! [19:03] <Aislinn> hi ltbrave [19:03] <ltbrave23> hey everyone [19:04] <Aislinn> what will your topic be, huebbe? [19:04] *** huebbe has quit [Bye] [19:04] <Aislinn> aside from Harry [19:04] <SoonerGryffindor> um, sorry huebbe, but I have no brains to spare [19:04] <fawkes28> you can check out the Teacher's Tearoom, huebbe [19:04] *** huebbe has joined #lounge [19:04] <SoonerGryffindor> hello ltbrave [19:04] <fawkes28> there are lessons in there [19:04] <kaelgirl> I completely forgot I was on here. [19:04] <huebbe> opps [19:04] <kaelgirl> wow. hi guys [19:04] <SoonerGryffindor> lol kael [19:04] <ltbrave23> brb [19:04] <huebbe> did i miss the brains part? [19:05] <Pellinore> yep [19:05] <huebbe> opps opps [19:05] <Aislinn> since you were just getting back on huebbe, you might want to check out the Teacher's Tearoom for ideas [19:05] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:05] *** BrettMac has joined #lounge [19:05] <huebbe> thank you [19:05] <Aislinn> hi Punky, Brett [19:05] <BrettMac> hi guys! sorry im late, whats the topic? [19:05] <Punky> Hey guys [19:05] <kaelgirl> hi Punky and Brett [19:05] <fawkes28> Hero's Journey, Breet [19:05] <fawkes28> *Brett [19:05] <Aislinn> It will be the Hero Journey, when we start [19:06] <SoonerGryffindor> the topic is Hero's journey [19:06] <BrettMac> thanks biggrin [19:06] <BrettMac> oh... so im not late? wow, i thought it was later than it was tongue [19:06] <Aislinn> I was wondering - are you all able to see the topic that appears when you first sign on in here? [19:06] <huebbe> yes [19:06] <Punky> Yup [19:06] <Aislinn> good smile [19:06] <futureweasley> Hero's Journey!! [19:06] *** cbm has joined #lounge [19:06] <BrettMac> oh...i can, that should have been a good indicator [19:06] <futureweasley> Woot [19:07] <fawkes28> hi cbm [19:07] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome cbm [19:07] <cbm> Hi everyone [19:07] <huebbe> hi cbm [19:07] <BrettMac> hi [19:07] <Pellinore> yes, almost need a fixed title on these chats to get people to read it as it can scroll quickly. [19:07] <huebbe> will we still be here when book 7 comes out? [19:07] <BrettMac> true, i never see the top headings sad [19:08] <Pellinore> Had the same problem in Everquest. People would ask what was going on and it would be in the guild's message of the day ;p [19:08] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:08] <fawkes28> hi mr. m [19:08] <BrettMac> hi mr mcg [19:08] <SoonerGryffindor> hello Mr M! [19:08] <huebbe> hi mrmc [19:08] <cbm> what top headings? [19:08] <Pellinore> hi Mr. M o; [19:08] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, everyone! [19:08] <Punky> Hi MrM [19:08] <Pellinore> Top headings = the messages you get when you 1st connect. [19:08] <cbm> k [19:09] <Aislinn> Hi Mr M smile [19:09] <cbm> Thanks [19:09] <huebbe> :) [19:09] <harryfreak359> Hi MrM [19:09] <Pellinore> *** cbm has joined the leaky lounge. *** Topic is: The Hero's Journey etc. [19:10] <BrettMac> im very sad pandas, the internet on my other computer with iTunes is down so i couldnt get my pc 74... [19:10] <MrMcGonagall> I'm glad to be here. I didn't think I could make it until later, but snow in Oklahoma has rearranged my plans. [19:10] <Pellinore> any Brits on? Woundering about the reintroduction of Wolves to the Scottish Highlands. Think Fenrir is getting busy :P [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> its pretty slick here Stuart [19:10] *** Joyhawk2121 has joined #lounge [19:10] <Aislinn> hi joyhawk [19:11] <huebbe> hi joy [19:11] <Joyhawk2121> hi everyone [19:11] <kaelgirl> hey joyhawk [19:12] <BrettMac> i wish i was british...but for now im stuck here in lame old canada [19:12] <huebbe> i wish i was canadan [19:12] <huebbe> ian [19:12] <BrettMac> ha! no you dont [19:13] <BrettMac> its the most boring place to live EVER [19:13] <huebbe> hmmmm i might if i have a president i don't like! [19:13] *** Tanaqui has joined #lounge [19:13] <Aislinn> hi tanaqui [19:13] <harryfreak359> hi tanqui [19:14] <huebbe> ok, desendant of canada anyway [19:14] <BrettMac> hey tanaqui [19:14] <Joyhawk2121> hi tanaqui [19:14] <huebbe> hi tanaqui [19:14] <Tanaqui> greetings everyone [19:15] <BrettMac> im trying to write a scribby essay, but im fighting to have it allowed as a non-junior submission...i want it to be judged on teh content, not my age. tongue [19:15] *** hrh7 has joined #lounge [19:15] <hrh7> Hi [19:15] <huebbe> hi hr [19:15] <futureweasley> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:15] <futureweasley> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:15] <futureweasley> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:16] <futureweasley> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:16] <futureweasley> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> In many ways, the story of Harry Potter fits the characteristics of "The Hero Journey," a classic structure in many mythic tales. There are three major stages that make up the Hero's Journey: Separation, Initiation, and Return. We can see these stages played out in the Harry Potter series in each individual book as well as an overarching theme for the whole story. [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> The first stage, Separation, involves a call to adventure, resistance to and final acceptance of the call, crossing the threshold, and entering the belly of the whale. [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> The second stage, Initiation, involves experiencing a road of trials, the nadir of the journey, an encounter with a goddess or father figure from whom he receives atonement, followed by an apotheosis and attainment of an ultimate boon. [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> The third stage, Return, involves a refusal to return home, often including a magical flight and a rescue from without. The hero must cross back over the threshold into the ordinary world, becoming the master of both worlds while enjoying the freedom to live. [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> Let's talk about how we see these stages illustrated in the overarching story of Harry Potter, while making reference to individual moments in the series. [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry grows up with the Dursleys, who are perfectly normal, thank you very much. How does Jo structure the call to adventure in PS/SS? [19:17] <Aislinn> The letters from Hogwarts seem like Harry's Call, to me [19:17] <huebbe> in the hut with Hagrid telling him he is a wizard [19:17] <fawkes28> i think Jo has the best structure for the Hero's Journey in PS [19:18] <BrettMac> she makes it so he sort of "stumbles upon" it... he doesn't mean to be a hero, even at hogwarts, but ends up doing so anyway [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> I do think that the letters are the call [19:18] <Aislinn> I agree, fawkes - it seems most clearly structured as a self contained Hero Journey in the first book [19:18] <fawkes28> i think the letters are the call because he could decide not to take his call and just to be a normal boy [19:18] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, there are some hints early on with Harry's abnormalities, but the letters seem to be the definite call. [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how the story completely starts to take off when the letters start arriving [19:18] <Aislinn> With the call to adventure, the hero often stumbles on something extraordinary, brett [19:19] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Sooner, that's when things get crazy! biggrin [19:19] <Tanaqui> hagrid's telling him a wizard is when he realizes he's received a call [19:19] <Pellinore> Letters + Hagrid seem to be the call as Hagrid is the one to actually convince him what's going on and to go. [19:19] <huebbe> hmm. but he doesn't know what the letters are, when Harry is talking with Hagrid I think he has been called [19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I mean, we knew that Harry was from the magical world, but it was still such a surprise the way Jo set that up [19:19] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:19] *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] [19:20] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, chocolate! [19:20] <BrettMac> hey chocolate [19:20] *** Shard has joined #lounge [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome chocolate [19:20] <Joyhawk2121> hi [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> hey Shard [19:20] * Shard wave hello at everyone [19:20] <huebbe> and the call is when their leave their own familiar world and are seperated [19:20] <fawkes28> i think people need to read it a few times in order for them to understand how carefully she structured PS [19:20] <Aislinn> that's true, huebbe - the letters are withheld, so it takes a while for him to learn that he is being called [19:20] <huebbe> hi shard [19:20] * Shard hopes the Sailed or Sunk thread doesn't burn leaky down while he is away [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [19:20] <fawkes28> and there are already trials before he can receive his call [19:20] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [19:20] <Shard> So have we started? [19:20] <MrMcGonagall> There are lots of obstacles to Harry receiving his call to adventure. [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> is that common with the Call? [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> yes Shard [19:21] <fawkes28> yes, shard [19:21] <huebbe> I don't know....I look at the seperation and then think of his immediate refusal [19:21] <Shard> What's the question? smile [19:21] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:21] <huebbe> hi chocolate [19:21] <Shard> Hi Chocolate [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry grows up with the Dursleys, who are perfectly normal, thank you very much. How does Jo structure the call to adventure in PS/SS? [19:21] <harryfreak359> hi chocolate [19:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi for real this time [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> sorry, was lagging [19:21] <BrettMac> well...i gotta go. wish i could stay longer... sad bye everyone [19:22] <huebbe> no worries [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> bye Brett [19:22] *** BrettMac left #lounge [] [19:22] <Aislinn> bye brett [19:22] <huebbe> bye brett [19:22] *** AgathaChristy has joined #lounge [19:22] <Shard> Oh yes the Letter [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome Agatha [19:22] <Aislinn> hi agatha [19:22] <huebbe> hi agatha [19:22] <Shard> I like Harry, he isn't thrust into adventuyre by having his house burn down [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, that's what we also all said Shard [19:22] <harryfreak359> Yes, shard, agreed [19:22] <Shard> But then again that did happen when he was a baby so that IS part of the Hero's journey [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> Do you think Harry tries to resist his call to enter the magical world? How is this a reflection on Harry's character? [19:22] <Aislinn> the letters open up a completely new world for Harry, that he never knew existed [19:23] <Shard> He doesn't really resist the call at all really [19:23] <Aislinn> I think Harry's resistance is fairly feeble [19:23] <MrMcGonagall> he doesn't seem to believe he could really be a wizard. [19:23] <huebbe> yes, he clearly says no [19:23] <fawkes28> he thought it was too good to be true [19:23] <Shard> Again why I like Harry say ovwer Garion [19:23] <huebbe> i'm just harry [19:23] <Aislinn> He's mainly worried that Hagrid must be wrong about him [19:23] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that mostly his resistance was because he thought Hagrid was joking [19:23] <Tanaqui> i don't think i'd call it resistance...it's more like shock and disbelief [19:23] <AgathaChristy> Hi all, what's up, I do not get the topic? Harry's Hero's Journey.... I will read and try to catch on. [19:23] <Aislinn> right, tanaqui [19:23] <ltbrave23> don't think he resists it was more of a to good to be true thing [19:23] <fawkes28> i dont think he wanted to get his hopes up [19:23] <huebbe> i agree fawkes [19:23] <Tanaqui> as others said, he didn't take too long to accept his call [19:23] <huebbe> something more tempting than his current life [19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> dont feel pressured to comment Agatha Its fine to read along [19:24] <Pellinore> He's grounded in the reality he knows of "There's no Magic"! so asks questions and is sceptical until shown otherwise. [19:24] <Shard> I mean there are Hero's that are constantly complaining Why me, and Harry doesn't do that [19:24] <fawkes28> Harry's reactions shows us that he is truely the hero [19:24] <cbm> I think it was a lack of real understanding of what Hagrid offered [19:24] <Shard> The instant he thinks Snape is going to get the STone, Harry goes into action [19:24] <MrMcGonagall> There was so much Harry didn't know or understand about his past, that I think his resistance mostly was a sense of initial disbelief [19:24] <Shard> I got tired of the whining little "Why me?" Hero and want to see [19:24] <Shard> "Why not? [19:24] <Tanaqui> that might be the other 'resistance' -- the idea that he could escape the life at privet drive [19:24] <Aislinn> but he recognizes the truth of what Hagrid says, when he asks if anything funny has ever happened around him [19:24] <huebbe> and then it is complete [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry grew up thinking he was nothing special so he really didnt know what to make of Hagrid's news at first, I think [19:25] <Aislinn> yes, sooner, I agree [19:25] <fawkes28> it takes him some time - before he realizes it is the truth - it just shows us that he is very humble [19:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> do you guys feel like he resisted the call on a larger level - such as his call to be Voldemort's murderer? [19:25] <MrMcGonagall> If I grew up in the Dursley household, I'd seize the chance to go anywhere else but there. [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> I do think so chocolate [19:25] <Aislinn> and he doesn't really understand what it is that he is being called to, in that time in the shack on the rock [19:25] <Tanaqui> he had an inkling...it was just squished to the back of his mind by the dursleys [19:25] <Shard> Hes humble yes, but that doesnt stop him and in fact MAKES him more special because he wants to do what is right from age 11 [19:25] <Shard> ]Harry is just awesome [19:26] <harryfreak359> Yes me too Sooner [19:26] <huebbe> but, is there another time when he clearly says "no"? [19:26] <ltbrave23> i also think he did chocolate [19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> I like how Jo put it once. Just because Harry's world is magical, does not mean that he leaves his problems behind. In fact, he has worse problems in the "better" world [19:26] <MrMcGonagall> I think you're on to something there, chocolate. Harry often is reluctant to put himself forward. [19:26] *** moody has joined #lounge [19:26] <Aislinn> yes, that's so true, Sooner [19:26] <Shard> At one point during PS he did because he thought it wasn't worth the trouble, but I dint thin khe ever does so again [19:26] <Shard> Very true Sooner [19:27] <Aislinn> he just replaces one type of problems for another, but he still has to deal with human nature and people's weaknesses [19:27] <huebbe> absolutely, thats what makes him an everyman [19:27] <Shard> I agree Choco, I tink he dealt with that in HHBOP [19:27] <Shard> HBP [19:27] *** gryffindorite has joined #lounge [19:27] <Shard> Would everyone hate it if Harry did have to "Murder" Voldemort? [19:28] <Aislinn> hi gryffindorite [19:28] <moody> heya all....i know this is off topic but im currently watchin the goblet of fire so im all harry pottery here!! that doesnt make any sense i know...grr, it annoys me so much how hermione acts in the film, and also the direction rons dad is givin in the film (when the're in the tent) is so bad! [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> Oftentimes the hero needs a mentor or somebody to convince them to accept the call to adventure. Does Hagrid fill this role, or is it mostly Harry's own decision? [19:28] <huebbe> I see it as Hagrid [19:28] <Pellinore> same [19:28] <MrMcGonagall> Hagrid sort of helps him over the bump. [19:28] <gryffindorite> hi [19:28] <cbm> I think it is Harry's decision once Hagrid told him what was happening [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that initially in book 1 it is Hagrid. As we move on, it is definitely DD and then Harry himself [19:29] <MrMcGonagall> DD is also someone who helps him accept his "mission" in the series at various points. [19:29] <huebbe> heros usually have a gaurdein and then a mentor and helpers [19:29] <Shard> Hagird does help but I think Albus is the real mentor figure, but then Harry has had alot of mentors huh? [19:29] <moody> dumbledore!! wise and [19:29] <Pellinore> yea lighting the fire with his wand didn't hurt or giving dudley a tail ;o [19:29] <Aislinn> yes, Hagrid helps explain the situation to him, and also shows him the magical world, by taking him to Diagon Alley [19:29] <Tanaqui> i have trouble seeing hagrid as a mentor... [19:29] <fawkes28> i think it was important for hagrid to be the initial mentor so he has someone to turn to in the wizarding world [19:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think it's partially his decision... Voldemort answered the call without using Dumbledore as a mentor... seeing how Harry first dealt with learning he was a wizard, and then how Voldemort dealt with it just accentuated how different their choices make them [19:29] *** gryffindorite left #lounge [] [19:29] *** Joyhawk2121 has quit [Bye] [19:29] <huebbe> yes fawkes [19:29] <Tanaqui> but he was the convincing factor for harry [19:29] <Shard> I dunno Hagrid sorta just cuations Harry alot and tells im to keep his nose out of it [19:29] <Aislinn> Dumbledore is definitely his most important mentor [19:29] <moody> hagrid is just a father figure [19:29] <Shard> So I think Albus is the most influential [19:30] <AgathaChristy> Moody, I agree, the movie is not on key, and I do not like how they have the Fake Moody doing that stupid TOUNGE lapping thing, sick!! and stupid. [19:30] <huebbe> yes ailinn, as DD becomes the wise guide for harry [19:30] <Aislinn> good point, chocolate [19:30] <Pellinore> you don't have to be really smart or competent to be a mentor to an 11 year old [19:30] <cbm> I think in some waysHagrid understood Harry as he was alone too much of the time [19:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha pellinore [19:30] <moody> yea exactly agathaChristy!! i hate that tongue thing too!! why does he do it, oh why??? [19:30] *** kaelgirl has quit [Bye] [19:30] <fawkes28> hagrid did a lot for harry in the beginning - i consider him very much so to be a mentor at least for the beginning of the book [19:30] <MrMcGonagall> Hagrid is a bit more like an uncle, or older brother or cousin. Encouraging to Harry, but not the same kind of mentor as DD. [19:30] <huebbe> yes fawkes [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> Well, as Harry matures his needs for what his mentor should be changes [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I'd consider Hagrid a giver of gifts [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> not mentor [19:31] <Shard> I mean Hjarry even has to take care of HAgrid's problem with Norbert, hardly befetting of a Mentor [19:31] <huebbe> according to Campbell, if thats who we are following the hero does have a gaurdien...and that is Hagrid [19:31] <cbm> A mentor in the beginning, then Harry outgrows him [19:31] <Shard> That I agree with Huebbe [19:31] <moody> harry take more care of hagrid!! [19:31] <Tanaqui> official definition of mentor: counselor or teacher [19:31] <Shard> and I think it will get Hagrid killed [19:31] <moody> they are both outsiders (harry an hagrid) [19:31] <huebbe> but doesnt' a mentor connotate more of instruction? [19:32] <Pellinore> the instruction doesn't have to be intentional [19:32] <Shard> Mentor is someone to look up to, not just literarly in Hagrids case [19:32] <cbm> Sometimes the instruction can just be by example [19:32] <ltbrave23> i see hagrid as the accidental mentor [19:32] <Shard> Yeah what not to do [19:32] <moody> no mentor is not someone to look up to, its someone to teach and instruct [19:32] <huebbe> true, but look at all the information DD gives to harry [19:32] <hrh7> Does a mentor have to be good? Snape pushes Harry also and makes him want to continue. [19:33] <Pellinore> yea mimicry of someone can lead to a mentor relationship w/out the mentor really participating in an active way. [19:33] <Tanaqui> lol shard. i see a mentor as someone you respect and someone with wisdom you can learn from [19:33] <Shard> Good point hrh7 [19:33] <AgathaChristy> I have no idea, but Jr. Crouch was not even in Harry's dream at the Riddle house [19:33] <Shard> Snape is a hard as rock teacher, [19:33] <Aislinn> %b no bolding please agatha [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> Crossing the threshold is the moment in which the hero leaves the ordinary world behind. What moment in PS/SS represented this most powerfully for you? [19:33] <cbm> But you have different mentors at different times in your life, I think Hagrid left the role of mentor at the sane time he got the egg [19:33] <cbm> same [19:33] <Shard> Diagon Alley [19:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the alley to Diagon Alley [19:34] <fawkes28> definitely in diagon alley [19:34] <AgathaChristy> Moody, I agree also, that I do not think the actress ?always? grasps the Hermione of the book [19:34] <MrMcGonagall> I think it was entering Diagon Alley [19:34] <Pellinore> The Brick Wall [19:34] <Tanaqui> agreed--diagon alley [19:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> There were so many [19:34] <Shard> Wow seems like everyone agrees [19:34] <moody> yea, i hate wen they change the book, agathaChristy, and wen harry finds the dead body in the woods, he doesnt even tell anyone...its mad, it not even explained! [19:34] <huebbe> yes totally Diagon Alley [19:34] <Shard> That was harry's crossing into the magical world [19:34] <Aislinn> that moment entering Diagon Alley was so magical! [19:34] <SoonerGryffindor> Let's please stay on the topic. Tonight's topic is the Hero's Journey [19:34] <cbm> agreed, but the 1st night in Hogwarts is special too [19:34] <hrh7> The sorting hat too. [19:35] <fawkes28> but another threshold is when he puts on the sorting hat [19:35] <huebbe> true, but the 1st threshold has to be the moment he steps from one world to another [19:35] <Pellinore> Or buying his 1st wand... that was his time alone with his main "Wizard" item. [19:35] <Shard> The train ride was pretty nice too, showing people that Harry would becme close friends too [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> platform 9 3/4? [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> going through the barrier [19:35] <moody> i loved the first trip to honeydukes [19:36] <cbm> I think that whole day is one large threshold of many moments [19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I do think that the train ride is symbolic of the threshold for every book [19:36] <Shard> I think at this point it was a subconcious crossing, in that he doesn't yet know the man he is to become. Like Hagrid said 7 years time and he won't know himself [19:36] <huebbe> yes but he has already seen Diagon Alley [19:36] <Aislinn> hi future [19:36] <Shard> Remember before the sOrting he didn't even think he was worthy of any of the houses [19:36] <hrh7> I agree with the wand. That was when he first did magic himself. Sparks anyway. [19:36] <futureweasley> hello all! [19:36] <huebbe> hi future [19:36] <cbm> welcome back FW [19:36] <Pellinore> now that i think of it the trying out wands is what i'm sticking with for an answer to the crossing over. He's a real wizard at that point. [19:36] <Shard> Hi FW! [19:36] <fawkes28> i think Jo does a great job creating several different thresholds in this book [19:36] <Aislinn> yes, fawkes [19:36] <moody> hi FW [19:36] <moody> yep [19:36] <cbm> agreed [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Sooner, that the Hogwarts Express is a definite threshold in every book. [19:36] *** Punky has quit [Bye] [19:37] <moody> bye punky [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> except in CoS of course [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Ford Anglia! [19:37] <huebbe> do all books begin with the train or diagon alley????? [19:37] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [19:37] <huebbe> i can't remember [19:37] <fawkes28> hi nyb [19:37] <moody> wheres AgathaChristy gone!! [19:37] <Shard> Each book as a different means of getting to his Magical World it seems [19:37] <Aislinn> hi NYB [19:37] <NYBookworm> hi [19:37] <huebbe> hinyb [19:37] <AgathaChristy> I am here Moody, slow reader, gggg [19:37] <harryfreak359> hi nybookworm [19:37] <cbm> they all begin with Harry at home before the journey starts [19:38] <moody> i know so im i!! [19:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think each magical area have thresholds... Ministry of Magic, Hogwarts, Gryffindor Common Room, Diagon Alley, Hogwarts Express [19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> I see several different potential thresholds: Going to Diagon Alley, the Hogwarts Express, crossing the Lake, going to the Leaky Cauldron [19:38] <moody> so many different opinions!! [19:38] <huebbe> I know the Dursley's I was just thinking something else [19:38] <ltbrave23> i think it is the leaky cauldron [19:38] <harryfreak359> yes agreed, Sooner [19:39] <huebbe> I was looking for a pattern overal [19:39] <Shard> That pattern is to change for book 7 no doubt though I think, Harry might not take those portals and choose other routes [19:39] <huebbe> true [19:39] <Pellinore> 1st kiss, 1st dance, 1st attempt at using a curse, entire cave sequence. [19:39] <moody> when he finds out bout the prophesy [19:39] <AgathaChristy> I liked the Honey dukes with all that candy, it was like going to Disneyland. [19:39] <moody> yep...i wanted to eat all the sweets!! [19:40] <futureweasley> does Honeydukes qualify as the threshold to the Hero's Journey? [19:40] <Tanaqui> the thing is, you usually only have one threshold--it's a place or point of beginning...we'd have to define all the different types of thresholds to accommodate all of them... [19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> no [19:40] <huebbe> no [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha no [19:40] <Tanaqui> and i'll stop referring to the dictionary now ;) [19:40] <fawkes28> right tanaqui [19:40] <huebbe> yes tanaqui [19:40] <moody> awh, im watchin the bit where neville is upset...thats the best bit in the films, they got it so right, with the stainglass window..etc.. [19:40] <futureweasley> well, if guess if the hero is bound and determined to do his tasks on a sugar high, I would think not [19:40] <AgathaChristy> sure it does futureweasly [19:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha moody... this ain't a film discussion [19:41] <Aislinn> The brick wall into Diagon Alley was definitely a threshold for Harry, as he crossed from the Muggle world into a magical one [19:41] <huebbe> lol [19:41] <moody> i know, sorry! [19:41] <AgathaChristy> If you had lived in a cupboard under the stair for 11 years, it would be like your first breath of freedom [19:41] <Aislinn> but he crosses back into the muggle world after that [19:41] <huebbe> yes aislinn i totally agree [19:41] <ltbrave23> but he already crossed when he entered the leaky caulron, being that it is a place only wizards can see [19:41] <huebbe> there actually has to be a "threshold" [19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> How would you describe Harry's reaction to entering this hitherto unknown magical world? [19:41] <MrMcGonagall> I rather liked the scene in the Leaky Cauldron, too, when he has all of these wizards coming up to him. [19:41] <Shard> That must have really irked him in book 5 to have to return yet again to the place he did not want to be [19:42] <Pellinore> True but the moment he becomes a "real" wizard is when he buys hsi 1st wand imho ;o [19:42] <Aislinn> In some ways I think that his true threshold may be either the trip on the Hogwarts Express, or arriving at Hogwarts [19:42] <AgathaChristy> And going to Honeydukes was a threshold of finally having no walls, no adults, [19:42] <AgathaChristy> freedom. [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> awe [19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> awe [19:42] <fawkes28> i love his reaction - it would probably be the same as mine [19:42] <Aislinn> He seems awestruck by it to me [19:42] <MrMcGonagall> He's definitely amazed and astonished. [19:42] <NYBookworm> he is amazazed like a tourist from a small town in NYC [19:42] <Pellinore> trepidation, wonder and curiousity [19:42] <huebbe> it could still be the process aislinn [19:42] <Tanaqui> okay, i see what you're saying aislinn...i can buy that [19:42] <huebbe> so I can see that [19:42] <futureweasley> well, classic Harry. So aware of his surroundings, but so unsure of his place [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> how bout a person from the 3rd world in NYC [19:42] <fawkes28> he never lets it get to his head - which is why Harry is so fitting for the hero [19:42] <Shard> Agreedf FW [19:42] <MrMcGonagall> excellent point, FW [19:42] <Shard> It isnt' until later that he is sure of himself [19:42] <Tanaqui> harry's reaction: like a kid who's been told they can go to disney world--a place they've always wanted to go to [19:42] <huebbe> yes faukes [19:43] <moody> i wanted it to happen to me, i think thats why hp books are so loved!! everyone want to go away to a magical lovely place [19:43] <MrMcGonagall> He's very much an observer in the early books. [19:43] <moody> oh i think harry is a bit big headed now though [19:43] <Aislinn> Yes, tanaqui - the magical world is SO much better than the one he has left [19:43] <huebbe> what is best is that Rowling does it in the series at the same time as doing it in all books [19:43] <harryfreak359> he was MrM, definitely [19:43] <Shard> I dont think so, not in PS and CoS [19:44] <Shard> He does get a bit big headed in OOTP [19:44] <Shard> \But it is deflated in HBP [19:44] <moody> i wished dd didnt tell harry he only let ron be watever its called, prefect, because he felt harry had too much to cope with allready [19:44] <AgathaChristy> there are many threshholds in one persons life, not just one. [19:44] <Pellinore> We had a guy from a very small town walk into the Pennstate Football stadium. His reaction would about match what i'd see Harry reacting to the wizards... where did all of these people come from and why are they dressed like that ;o [19:44] <huebbe> but not when we are talking about a literary hero [19:44] <Shard> I think Ron deserved the badge actually, Harry didn't need it [19:45] <moody> yep shard [19:45] <Shard> Harry has bigger issues to deal wih [19:45] <moody> i actually felt proud ron got it!! [19:45] <SoonerGryffindor> In reference to the biblical prophet Jonah, the next stage of the hero's journey is entering the belly of the whale, perhaps likened to being "swallowed" by the new world one has entered. What symbolizes this in Harry's journey? [19:45] <hrh7> I think it showed that DD really did favor Harry more than a teacher should [19:45] <moody> then disappointed about why! [19:45] <Aislinn> I think it is the trip across the lake, and under Hogwarts [19:45] <Shard> I would say going down that Trap Door where Fluffy was [19:45] <fawkes28> I think it is Harry passing through the trapdoor [19:45] <Aislinn> The symbolism, in the way Jo wrote it, was so graphic [19:46] <Aislinn> almost like a birth [19:46] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Aislinn. [19:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that for the series as a whole, it is finding out about the prophecy and what he is going to have to do [19:46] <huebbe> yes, going into the underworld [19:46] <Shard> Or would that be the underworld phase [19:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> is the belly of the whale different than decending into underworld? [19:46] <cbm> I think there are many times Harry does this, because I think there are many mini journey's throuh gh the series [19:46] <Tanaqui> hmmm...swallowed...that would mean completely engulfed... [19:46] <MrMcGonagall> I could see that, Sooner - going into the depths of the ministyr [19:46] <moody> im gonna go folk (and watch the rest og goblet of fire) happy chattin, bye all (and AgathaChristy):) [19:46] <Pellinore> Being swallowed by the whale would be to me all of the new stuff he has to buy and learn, its just a huge influx of new information and sensations that would be overwhelming. [19:46] <Shard> I second Choco's question [19:46] <hrh7> The sorting hat. Then he is accept into his house. [19:46] <Tanaqui> i think i agree with hrh7 [19:47] <huebbe> it is the process once in the actually belly the hero then faces the initiation phase [19:47] <AgathaChristy> well what do you describe Literary hero to be? superman, he is boy who like all [19:47] <moody> bye smile [19:47] <fawkes28> i think everything having to do with diagon alley is only crossing the treshold - i think the belly of the whale is deeper [19:47] <AgathaChristy> of us grow into our own skins and learns as we go long. [19:47] *** moody left #lounge [] [19:48] <cbm> so we have the Trapdoor, the chamber, the shack, the portkey, the ministry, and in HBO the cave, I think all of them fit for that part of the journey in each book [19:48] <Shard> Is the Whale like going into the Underworld? [19:48] <huebbe> yes, I think so [19:48] <fawkes28> exactly, cbm - i agree with those points [19:48] <Aislinn> those are each definitely points when Harry travels into the innermost place, cbm [19:49] <Shard> "What abuot the Graveyard? [19:49] <Pellinore> to me the whale represents being overwhelmed by what you're experiencing. [19:49] <cbm> The portkey takes him to the Graveyard [19:49] <huebbe> that is what makes this series so intriguing....every book has the code [19:49] <Tanaqui> is overwhelmed bad in this case, pellinore? or just all your senses are on alert? [19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i would think that if the entire series was seen as one journey, the graveyard would be the belly of the whale [19:50] <Pellinore> not bad but its the struggle to understand what's going on around you. [19:50] <Shard> I think GoF is really the "pinnacle" book, not sure that is the right word, where the series hinges and swings into a different direction that isn't paralled anywhere else in the series [19:50] <huebbe> i suppose it depends....but both fit...series and books [19:50] <SoonerGryffindor> The hero experiences a road of trials. What do you consider to be some of the key trials Harry passes through in the course of the series? [19:50] <cbm> I think that it is one journey, but each book has it's own mini Hero's journey [19:50] <Aislinn> I think the Belly is an ealier point in the journey shard [19:50] <fawkes28> i think one of harry's biggest trials has been Snape [19:50] <Shard> The Obstcle Course, the fight with the Basilisk, the trials in GoF [19:50] <Tanaqui> deciding who he'd be friends with was a trial [19:50] <AgathaChristy> Well I think being in a whale , like Jonah has nothing to do with Harry Potter [19:51] <ltbrave23> i agree fawkes [19:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Umbridge's detentions [19:51] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree with you fawkes [19:51] <Aislinn> The 7 obstacles in the PS [19:51] <huebbe> i agree fawkes [19:51] <Shard> I agree Aislinn [19:51] <MrMcGonagall> The tasks of the Tri-Wizard Tournament [19:51] <cbm> I think Surviving going into the belly of the whale 6 times [19:51] <Shard> We do have an essay on that right? The 7 trails? [19:51] <AgathaChristy> Jonah was in the whale because he refused to Obey God and do what God told him to do [19:51] <Pellinore> I'm more inclinded to go the Moby Dick route for the whale then Jonah [19:51] <huebbe> to match the seven deadly sins? [19:51] <fawkes28> another constant trial that Harry faces is with Draco [19:51] <Aislinn> having to deal with people's changing opinions of him, whether it be The Boy Who Lived, the Heir of Slytherin, The boy who stole the Triwizard spot, the Liar, The Chosen ONe [19:52] <Shard> 7 sins, 7 trials and 7 DADA teachers [19:52] <MrMcGonagall> Dealing with incompetent DADA professors, too. [19:52] <harryfreak359> Yes, that had to be a big part of that Asilinn [19:52] <Aislinn> having to deal with that and keep centered is an important part of his growth [19:52] <Aislinn> and journey [19:52] <SoonerGryffindor> Lockhart in book 2 was a huge trial [19:52] <ltbrave23> i think peter pettigrew was an important test for him [19:52] <fawkes28> Harry has faced much taunting and isolation at school - trials that not many people could face [19:52] <Aislinn> yes, he was sooner [19:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree ltbrave [19:53] <Shard> Harry has had alot to learn, not just about wizarding battles but also about growing up and knowing what it is to be a man, to be able to choose your own destiny as oppposed to it beeiong handed to you [19:53] <Aislinn> Dobby is another trial for him, in the way he tries to "help" him in CoS [19:53] <cbm> His whole childhood was a trial that made him [19:53] <huebbe> maybe the point is, his road of trails is in-numerable and it would take us more that 2 hours to count them all! [19:53] <fawkes28> i agree, aislinn [19:53] <Shard> Poor Dobby he tried so hard [19:53] <SoonerGryffindor> What do you think is the purpose of heroes having to endure a road of trials? [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> Harry has a whole love-hate relationship with the opinion of the wizarding world, as well [19:53] <fawkes28> i definitely agree, huebbe [19:53] <Tanaqui> makes you stronger [19:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think most of harry's trials have included how he deals with people... Peter Pettigrew, Umbridge, Snape, Slughorn, Voldemort, Scrimgeaur [19:53] <huebbe> makes them stronger, learning experience etc. [19:53] <cbm> It makdes for a great story smile [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> It strengthens them on their journey [19:54] <Aislinn> I think it is a way for them to mature and grow [19:54] <MrMcGonagall> They learn from the bttles [19:54] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that its the only way they can ultimately suceed. [19:54] <Pellinore> without trials it is very difficult to show Character Growth [19:54] <ltbrave23> i agree chocolate [19:54] <Shard> Its how they learn to grow SG, yuou can't learn anything being papmered like Dudley [19:54] <futureweasley> it makes them more real [19:54] <Shard> Pain is life, pain is growth [19:54] <fawkes28> I think the trials, especially the 7 tasks, give Harry a great deal of confidence so that in the end he will be able to do it on his own [19:54] <Aislinn> if the Journey is a metaphor for individuation, it is a way for them to learn about themselves and become self actualized [19:54] <futureweasley> noone breezes through obsticles [19:54] <Shard> Not even Harry [19:54] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [19:54] <huebbe> harry's characterization is what facinates most of us, I would think. We see him at every stage of life almost [19:54] <fawkes28> hi love [19:55] <huebbe> hi love [19:55] <Shard> Hi L4F [19:55] <Love4Fawkes> hi all! [19:55] <huebbe> child, pre-teen, teen and so on [19:55] <MrMcGonagall> there's definitely hardships and trials Harry experiences in each book. [19:55] <MrMcGonagall> All preparing him for what is to come. [19:55] <fawkes28> self-actualization is so important, aislinn [19:56] <Shard> I agree Fawkes28 [19:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I know this isn't a religious discussion, but this question reminds me of James 1:3... "testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything" [19:56] <Shard> That's why I think HArry kicks butt [19:56] <Tanaqui> is harry self actualized? [19:56] <Shard> HGe looks inside himself for answers [19:56] <cbm> That is true from the 1st look at him moving spiders off his clothing you knew he was special [19:56] <fawkes28> not yet [19:56] <Aislinn> yes, the trials help to make the hero strong, and prepared for the final confrontation [19:56] <Tanaqui> or is he still moving towards it? [19:56] <fawkes28> harry needs to face more trials before that can happen [19:56] <Aislinn> I think he is a lot closer, than he was tanaqui [19:56] <Shard> Makes me wonder if those 7 trails were put there for Harry to go through, I mean that Albus puyt them there to train Harry [19:57] <huebbe> yes fawkes [19:57] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Shard [19:57] <huebbe> he is not done by a long shot [19:57] <Love4Fawkes> i think dd always though harry deserved a shot at it and would need the training [19:57] <SoonerGryffindor> Often the hero has helpers along the road of trials. Who are Harry's helpers? [19:57] <fawkes28> dumbledore [19:57] <MrMcGonagall> Ron, Hermione obviously [19:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> blah, everyone [19:57] <Tanaqui> i don't know about dd 'putting' them there...but he didn't keep harry from experiencing his trials [19:57] <fawkes28> hermione and ron [19:57] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [19:57] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:57] <NYBookworm> Ron Hermione DD Hagrid [19:57] <Love4Fawkes> sirius, lupin [19:57] <cbm> brb [19:58] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [19:58] <AgathaChristy> Shard, I do not think AD put obsticals in Harry's path of life to make him stronger [19:58] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [19:58] <fawkes28> hey debbie [19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> hello Debbie [19:58] <Aislinn> Hi Debbie [19:58] <futureweasley> well, Snape and Petunia come to mind...they are reluctant protectors, but I think they are helpers none the less [19:58] <Shard> yes R/Hr but also the Twins, Hagrid, Lupin,. Tonks, Ginny, Neville and Luna [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> hey smile [19:58] <huebbe> Mr. and Mrs. Weasly, make up the family unit he is missing [19:58] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, Debbie! [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey debbie [19:58] <huebbe> hi debbie [19:58] *** cbm has joined #lounge [19:58] <Love4Fawkes> hi debbie [19:58] <ltbrave23> mcgonagall [19:58] <fawkes28> almost everyone except for the DE's and Voldemort [19:58] <huebbe> sirius [19:58] <Tanaqui> yeah, all the weasleys...much of the order... [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agree with fawkes28 [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> we could put anyone on this list [19:59] <Love4Fawkes> that is true, we could [19:59] <Aislinn> I think that Harry reflects on some of his helpers, at DD's funeral [19:59] <huebbe> absolutley [19:59] <MrMcGonagall> yes, all the people who have been there for him in one way or another [19:59] <Pellinore> Ron, Hermione, all of his teachers, good and bad, OOTPheonix, Dursleys(know what not to do), pretty much everyone you meet will have some impact but Ginny, Nevile, Luna, DD, are his major assistants. [19:59] <Aislinn> When he thinks about the people who have stood in front of him, protecting him, and have died for hiim [19:59] <Tanaqui> but his most intimate helpers would be ron, hermione and dd...sirius would follow closely after that [19:59] <Shard> Yes that is true Harry has had alot of help and I think that's a good thing, no one should stand alone [19:59] <Shard> Harry will face LV on his own but his frirends will get himn there first [20:00] <Aislinn> I agree that Ron and Hermione are his most constant helpers [20:00] <Aislinn> I see DD as his mentor [20:00] <Love4Fawkes> you're right shard and I think harry will learn this lesson in DH [20:00] <huebbe> what I find amazing is that he has so much help, but he is so alone [20:00] <ltbrave23> dobby is all too willing to help [20:00] <Love4Fawkes> too willing is right [20:00] <Tanaqui> i guess with the memories he shared with harry, i see dd as a helper as well as mentor [20:00] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:00] <cbm> Many Many People will be willing to help [20:00] <Pellinore> I would really be disappointed if after these 6 books, Harry does the rest solo. Teamwork>>>>>>>solo [20:01] <fawkes28> i think sometimes dobby has caused more harm than good [20:01] <huebbe> and I think of the moment at the end of HBP....which really illuminates this [20:01] <AgathaChristy> Huebbe, we are all alone in our walk of life, we have helpers, and friends but we have to do the walking [20:01] <Aislinn> I don't see him as going solo, pellinore [20:01] <MrMcGonagall> Dobby has more that redeemed himself. [20:01] <MrMcGonagall> *than [20:01] <huebbe> yes, I think that is the point [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I've seen him as solo this whole time [20:01] <SoonerGryffindor> Are there characters that have helped Harry without him being conscious of it? [20:01] <Love4Fawkes> i don't either aislinn. even though he wants to now, he'll learn how much he needs his friends [20:01] * fawkes28 has the best answer ever - SNAPE [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> except in the ministry of magic [20:01] <cbm> I think that part of his journey in DH is him having to be willing to accept help to finish his task [20:01] <Aislinn> agreed love [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> i agree fawkes [20:02] <hrh7> He rejects help sometimes. Like when DD wanted to help in CS and Harry wouldn't tell him he was hearing voices. [20:02] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:02] <Shard> Yes Sooner [20:02] <Shard> Albus is a bigf one [20:02] <ltbrave23> i also agree [20:02] <AgathaChristy> Dobby means well, his heart is right but he did make errors. [20:02] <Tanaqui> draco--he helped harry with his decision to be friends with ron [20:02] <Aislinn> Snape has definitely taught Harry lessons, both the ones he intended to and ones he doesn't realize he has [20:02] <Shard> lol yeah Snape [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> yes hrh7, harry can be foolish that way [20:02] <fawkes28> harry is not going to be conscious of snape helping him until the final chapters [20:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Well madam pomfrey helps him all the time when he's not conscious.... ark ark ark [20:02] <SoonerGryffindor> I also think that characters like Peeves, Umbridge, Fudge and Lockhart have all taught him lessons as well [20:02] <Shard> Some have evne said Dudley [20:02] <cbm> I can not see the circumstances where Harry would take snapes help [20:02] <huebbe> yes aislinn, Snape has probably helped Harry the most [20:02] <ltbrave23> i think that peter has helped harry without either of them knowing it [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> Dudley [20:02] <Shard> That dudley trained Harry to be fast, on his feet and aware of things [20:02] <Aislinn> I also think that Draco has been a catalyst for Harry learning and growing, although neither of them would ever care to admit it [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> and all the dursleys really [20:03] <huebbe> Totally agree [20:03] <Love4Fawkes> thats very true aislinn [20:03] <Pellinore> well since the book is primarily from Harry's perspective, if he doesn't see it we most likely will not see it. But i still see DD has having done things to follow Harry around at different points to help him along, invis DD/Pheonix, portraits, Tonks etc. [20:03] <Pellinore> & Figg [20:03] <huebbe> we learn the most from our enemies.... [20:03] <MrMcGonagall> Barty Crouch Jr. also helped him out in DAADA [20:03] <fawkes28> that is very true huebbe [20:03] <Aislinn> that's true, Mr M [20:03] <Aislinn> he actually was a good teacher, even if he turned out to be totally twisted [20:03] <cbm> Crouch had to teach DADA competently in order to keep his cover [20:04] <SoonerGryffindor> Yeah, why n the world did he teach Harry to resist the imperius curse? [20:04] <huebbe> Rowling likes to always have us look at the opposite of things [20:04] <fawkes28> it is funny how the people who don't mean to help harry actually do [20:04] *** SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [20:04] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [20:04] <cbm> I bet he was suprised that Harry resisted it [20:04] <huebbe> yes!!! [20:04] <Pellinore> wanted to toy with him to see what his weaknessess were would be my guess. [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> I wondered that too [20:04] * Shard thinks Sooner is right on the money [20:04] <ltbrave23> to size him up [20:04] <Aislinn> I think he figured that Harry would be dead by the end of the year, so it didn't really matter, sooner [20:04] <Shard> I agree SG I always found that puzzling [20:04] <Shard> I guess he wanted to tell LV if Harry could resist it or not [20:04] <MrMcGonagall> True, Aislinn [20:05] <harryfreak359> yes Sooner me too [20:05] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but he handed him a powerful weapon [20:05] <Shard> but frankly I think Crocuh Jr backfired there [20:05] <Tanaqui> he probably also enjoyed having a chance to curse without blowing his cover [20:05] <Pellinore> maybe he thought he might try and hit him with it later just to make sure he grabed the Cup in the maze. [20:05] <Love4Fawkes> i agree tanaqui [20:05] <huebbe> oh, yes he enjoyed that moment [20:05] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:05] <Shard> I actually think it's Harry's natural talent to resist certain spells and effects [20:05] <SoonerGryffindor> Shapeshifters are characters that seem to fill different roles at different times, the characters whom you can't quite pin down. What Shapeshifters has Harry encountered? [20:05] <cbm> In order to keep acting like moody, Crouch Jr. had to do his job well so DD would not be suspicious [20:05] <huebbe> Snape [20:05] <huebbe> LOL [20:05] <Love4Fawkes> SNAPE [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> Snapeshifter *hehe* [20:06] <Shard> Snape *grumbl;e* [20:06] <Aislinn> well, there is once again, that greasy git, the snapeshifter himself [20:06] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:06] <MrMcGonagall> Snape par excellence [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> wb Debbie [20:06] <Pellinore> Barty Crouch JR., Rat boy and beetle girl [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> stupid hotel internet :P [20:06] <huebbe> Oh I love Snape as much as I love Miss Havasham! [20:06] <Aislinn> He is definitely one of the most classic examples of Shapeshifter that I've seen in literature [20:06] <Shard> S o much left in the air [20:06] <fawkes28> ok ok i will have to agree that snape is definitely a snapeshifter laugh [20:06] <MrMcGonagall> His whole double agent role [20:06] * cbm thinks that Snape has been consistently sadistic through all 6 books [20:07] <AgathaChristy> Lupin, if you call transforming to a warewolf [20:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> His own emotions... especially in 5 and 6 they're described as animalistic... very "shifting" [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> lol [20:07] <Shard> You are right CBM, but for what side and purpose [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> Peter and Rita are not only shapeshifters in the literary sense, they physically are as well [20:07] <Shard> Snape has the ability to know when and how to act [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> so is Sirius [20:07] <Aislinn> but his motives have been cast in different lights cbm, throughout the series [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> Sirius, James [20:07] <huebbe> anyone who is an animagus [20:07] *** Greeneyes15 has joined #lounge [20:07] <Shard> Good point there about the Animagi [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> McGonagall [20:07] <huebbe> even our beloved Rita [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> hi greeneyes [20:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey greenie [20:07] <Greeneyes15> hey everyone! [20:08] <Pellinore> well McGonagall has always seemed straightforward so only in the physical sense was she a shapeshifter. [20:08] <Tanaqui> perhaps tonks? she can shift her appearance...though not her whole shape [20:08] <Aislinn> With Peter and Sirius, their roles changed - what we thought was true about them shifted, and revealed something quite different [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> who thinks that shapeshifters will play an important role in the end? [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and how? [20:08] <fawkes28> i do i do!!!! [20:08] <cbm> I think that one of JKRs strengths is that she writes her characters very consistently [20:08] <Shard> I do think Peter has a role to play [20:09] <Shard> as Snake food for Nagini [20:09] <hrh7> I think Snape will play a huge role. [20:09] <Love4Fawkes> i do too. i think there will be a number of characters who aren't what they seem [20:09] <fawkes28> i would love to answer but that is getting into a P3 discussion wink [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, Snape might make a cameo appearance in DH wink [20:09] <Shard> P3? [20:09] <Aislinn> Sunday's chats [20:09] <SoonerGryffindor> Shadows are characters that are often the exact opposite of the hero, a kind of anti-hero. What characters stand in stark contrast to Harry? [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true, but instead of just identifying how harry's story is a hero's journey, maybe applying consistencies from other stories to his? [20:10] <huebbe> LV! [20:10] <Shard> Voldemort, Draco [20:10] <futureweasley> urm, Snape? [20:10] <Pellinore> hehe, Snape bettre show up in DH... as a BIG ole Target [20:10] <Shard> Dudley [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> Snape [20:10] <Love4Fawkes> dudley [20:10] <cbm> Snape and Draco [20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> Voldemort [20:10] <Pellinore> Umbridge :P [20:10] <MrMcGonagall> Definitely voldemort [20:10] <Shard> LV Hates and Harry Loves [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Wormtail, by far [20:10] <Aislinn> yes, but I don't see him as an anti-hero [20:10] <Tanaqui> stark contrast? tom riddle [20:10] <Aislinn> voldemort, I mean [20:10] <Shard> Choco, I think Peter is too weak, but then that is the point huh? [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> totally This post has been edited by futureweasley: Jan 31 2007, 09:24 PM |
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