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WWW Corner Booth Transcript: Jan 31, 2007, The Hero's Journey

MJLeakyCon View Member Profile	Jan 31 2007, 09:09 PM Post #1
She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner	Tonight's Chat Moderators: fawkes28, Aislinn, MrMcGonagall, futureweasley, Poet, SoonerGryffindor [18:59] * ltbrave23 has joined #lounge [19:00] * ltbrave23 has quit [Bye] [19:00] * kaelgirl has joined #lounge [19:00] <Aislinn> hi kaelgirl [19:00] <SoonerGryffindor> hello [19:01] * huebbe has joined #lounge [19:01] <Aislinn> hey huebbe [19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> hello huebbe [19:01] <huebbe> hey all! [19:01] <huebbe> how are we this fine day? [19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> cold [19:01] <Aislinn> just fine - trying to stay warm [19:01] <Aislinn> :lol: [19:02] * Pellinore has joined #lounge [19:02] <Aislinn> laugh [19:02] <huebbe> amen [19:02] <SoonerGryffindor> hi Pellinore [19:02] <Aislinn> hi pellinore [19:02] <Pellinore> howdy [19:02] <huebbe> hi pell [19:02] <Pellinore> went looking for Fortescue as part of the gun powerder treason and could only find a reference to a Rookwood. Might be what i was remembering. [19:03] <futureweasley> hello? [19:03] * harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [19:03] <SoonerGryffindor> hey hf [19:03] * futureweasley has quit [Bye] [19:03] * futureweasley has joined #lounge [19:03] <huebbe> before we start, could any of you smart people out there send me some of your brains? I am going to teach a class on harry....I need lots of stuff [19:03] * ltbrave23 has joined #lounge [19:03] <harryfreak359> Heya everyone! [19:03] <Pellinore> Use lots of Rogain [19:03] <Aislinn> hi harryfreak! [19:03] <Aislinn> hi ltbrave [19:03] <ltbrave23> hey everyone [19:04] <Aislinn> what will your topic be, huebbe? [19:04] * huebbe has quit [Bye] [19:04] <Aislinn> aside from Harry [19:04] <SoonerGryffindor> um, sorry huebbe, but I have no brains to spare [19:04] <fawkes28> you can check out the Teacher's Tearoom, huebbe [19:04] * huebbe has joined #lounge [19:04] <SoonerGryffindor> hello ltbrave [19:04] <fawkes28> there are lessons in there [19:04] <kaelgirl> I completely forgot I was on here. [19:04] <huebbe> opps [19:04] <kaelgirl> wow. hi guys [19:04] <SoonerGryffindor> lol kael [19:04] <ltbrave23> brb [19:04] <huebbe> did i miss the brains part? [19:05] <Pellinore> yep [19:05] <huebbe> opps opps [19:05] <Aislinn> since you were just getting back on huebbe, you might want to check out the Teacher's Tearoom for ideas [19:05] * Punky has joined #lounge [19:05] *** BrettMac has joined #lounge [19:05] <huebbe> thank you [19:05] <Aislinn> hi Punky, Brett [19:05] <BrettMac> hi guys! sorry im late, whats the topic? [19:05] <Punky> Hey guys [19:05] <kaelgirl> hi Punky and Brett [19:05] <fawkes28> Hero's Journey, Breet [19:05] <fawkes28> Brett [19:05] <Aislinn> It will be the Hero Journey, when we start [19:06] <SoonerGryffindor> the topic is Hero's journey [19:06] <BrettMac> thanks biggrin [19:06] <BrettMac> oh... so im not late? wow, i thought it was later than it was tongue [19:06] <Aislinn> I was wondering - are you all able to see the topic that appears when you first sign on in here? [19:06] <huebbe> yes [19:06] <Punky> Yup [19:06] <Aislinn> good smile [19:06] <futureweasley> Hero's Journey!! [19:06] cbm has joined #lounge [19:06] <BrettMac> oh...i can, that should have been a good indicator [19:06] <futureweasley> Woot [19:07] <fawkes28> hi cbm [19:07] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome cbm [19:07] <cbm> Hi everyone [19:07] <huebbe> hi cbm [19:07] <BrettMac> hi [19:07] <Pellinore> yes, almost need a fixed title on these chats to get people to read it as it can scroll quickly. [19:07] <huebbe> will we still be here when book 7 comes out? [19:07] <BrettMac> true, i never see the top headings sad [19:08] <Pellinore> Had the same problem in Everquest. People would ask what was going on and it would be in the guild's message of the day ;p [19:08] * MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:08] <fawkes28> hi mr. m [19:08] <BrettMac> hi mr mcg [19:08] <SoonerGryffindor> hello Mr M! [19:08] <huebbe> hi mrmc [19:08] <cbm> what top headings? [19:08] <Pellinore> hi Mr. M o; [19:08] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, everyone! [19:08] <Punky> Hi MrM [19:08] <Pellinore> Top headings = the messages you get when you 1st connect. [19:08] <cbm> k [19:09] <Aislinn> Hi Mr M smile [19:09] <cbm> Thanks [19:09] <huebbe> :) [19:09] <harryfreak359> Hi MrM [19:09] <Pellinore> * cbm has joined the leaky lounge. * Topic is: The Hero's Journey etc. [19:10] <BrettMac> im very sad pandas, the internet on my other computer with iTunes is down so i couldnt get my pc 74... [19:10] <MrMcGonagall> I'm glad to be here. I didn't think I could make it until later, but snow in Oklahoma has rearranged my plans. [19:10] <Pellinore> any Brits on? Woundering about the reintroduction of Wolves to the Scottish Highlands. Think Fenrir is getting busy :P [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> its pretty slick here Stuart [19:10] * Joyhawk2121 has joined #lounge [19:10] <Aislinn> hi joyhawk [19:11] <huebbe> hi joy [19:11] <Joyhawk2121> hi everyone [19:11] <kaelgirl> hey joyhawk [19:12] <BrettMac> i wish i was british...but for now im stuck here in lame old canada [19:12] <huebbe> i wish i was canadan [19:12] <huebbe> ian [19:12] <BrettMac> ha! no you dont [19:13] <BrettMac> its the most boring place to live EVER [19:13] <huebbe> hmmmm i might if i have a president i don't like! [19:13] * Tanaqui has joined #lounge [19:13] <Aislinn> hi tanaqui [19:13] <harryfreak359> hi tanqui [19:14] <huebbe> ok, desendant of canada anyway [19:14] <BrettMac> hey tanaqui [19:14] <Joyhawk2121> hi tanaqui [19:14] <huebbe> hi tanaqui [19:14] <Tanaqui> greetings everyone [19:15] <BrettMac> im trying to write a scribby essay, but im fighting to have it allowed as a non-junior submission...i want it to be judged on teh content, not my age. tongue [19:15] * hrh7 has joined #lounge [19:15] <hrh7> Hi [19:15] <huebbe> hi hr [19:15] <futureweasley> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:15] <futureweasley> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:15] <futureweasley> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:16] <futureweasley> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:16] <futureweasley> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> In many ways, the story of Harry Potter fits the characteristics of "The Hero Journey," a classic structure in many mythic tales. There are three major stages that make up the Hero's Journey: Separation, Initiation, and Return. We can see these stages played out in the Harry Potter series in each individual book as well as an overarching theme for the whole story. [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> The first stage, Separation, involves a call to adventure, resistance to and final acceptance of the call, crossing the threshold, and entering the belly of the whale. [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> The second stage, Initiation, involves experiencing a road of trials, the nadir of the journey, an encounter with a goddess or father figure from whom he receives atonement, followed by an apotheosis and attainment of an ultimate boon. [19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> The third stage, Return, involves a refusal to return home, often including a magical flight and a rescue from without. The hero must cross back over the threshold into the ordinary world, becoming the master of both worlds while enjoying the freedom to live. [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> Let's talk about how we see these stages illustrated in the overarching story of Harry Potter, while making reference to individual moments in the series. [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry grows up with the Dursleys, who are perfectly normal, thank you very much. How does Jo structure the call to adventure in PS/SS? [19:17] <Aislinn> The letters from Hogwarts seem like Harry's Call, to me [19:17] <huebbe> in the hut with Hagrid telling him he is a wizard [19:17] <fawkes28> i think Jo has the best structure for the Hero's Journey in PS [19:18] <BrettMac> she makes it so he sort of "stumbles upon" it... he doesn't mean to be a hero, even at hogwarts, but ends up doing so anyway [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> I do think that the letters are the call [19:18] <Aislinn> I agree, fawkes - it seems most clearly structured as a self contained Hero Journey in the first book [19:18] <fawkes28> i think the letters are the call because he could decide not to take his call and just to be a normal boy [19:18] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, there are some hints early on with Harry's abnormalities, but the letters seem to be the definite call. [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how the story completely starts to take off when the letters start arriving [19:18] <Aislinn> With the call to adventure, the hero often stumbles on something extraordinary, brett [19:19] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Sooner, that's when things get crazy! biggrin [19:19] <Tanaqui> hagrid's telling him a wizard is when he realizes he's received a call [19:19] <Pellinore> Letters + Hagrid seem to be the call as Hagrid is the one to actually convince him what's going on and to go. [19:19] <huebbe> hmm. but he doesn't know what the letters are, when Harry is talking with Hagrid I think he has been called [19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I mean, we knew that Harry was from the magical world, but it was still such a surprise the way Jo set that up [19:19] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:19] * futureweasley has quit [Bye] [19:20] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, chocolate! [19:20] <BrettMac> hey chocolate [19:20] * Shard has joined #lounge [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome chocolate [19:20] <Joyhawk2121> hi [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> hey Shard [19:20] * Shard wave hello at everyone [19:20] <huebbe> and the call is when their leave their own familiar world and are seperated [19:20] <fawkes28> i think people need to read it a few times in order for them to understand how carefully she structured PS [19:20] <Aislinn> that's true, huebbe - the letters are withheld, so it takes a while for him to learn that he is being called [19:20] <huebbe> hi shard [19:20] * Shard hopes the Sailed or Sunk thread doesn't burn leaky down while he is away [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [19:20] <fawkes28> and there are already trials before he can receive his call [19:20] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [19:20] <Shard> So have we started? [19:20] <MrMcGonagall> There are lots of obstacles to Harry receiving his call to adventure. [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> is that common with the Call? [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> yes Shard [19:21] <fawkes28> yes, shard [19:21] <huebbe> I don't know....I look at the seperation and then think of his immediate refusal [19:21] <Shard> What's the question? smile [19:21] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:21] <huebbe> hi chocolate [19:21] <Shard> Hi Chocolate [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry grows up with the Dursleys, who are perfectly normal, thank you very much. How does Jo structure the call to adventure in PS/SS? [19:21] <harryfreak359> hi chocolate [19:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi for real this time [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> sorry, was lagging [19:21] <BrettMac> well...i gotta go. wish i could stay longer... sad bye everyone [19:22] <huebbe> no worries [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> bye Brett [19:22] * BrettMac left #lounge [] [19:22] <Aislinn> bye brett [19:22] <huebbe> bye brett [19:22] * AgathaChristy has joined #lounge [19:22] <Shard> Oh yes the Letter [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome Agatha [19:22] <Aislinn> hi agatha [19:22] <huebbe> hi agatha [19:22] <Shard> I like Harry, he isn't thrust into adventuyre by having his house burn down [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, that's what we also all said Shard [19:22] <harryfreak359> Yes, shard, agreed [19:22] <Shard> But then again that did happen when he was a baby so that IS part of the Hero's journey [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> Do you think Harry tries to resist his call to enter the magical world? How is this a reflection on Harry's character? [19:22] <Aislinn> the letters open up a completely new world for Harry, that he never knew existed [19:23] <Shard> He doesn't really resist the call at all really [19:23] <Aislinn> I think Harry's resistance is fairly feeble [19:23] <MrMcGonagall> he doesn't seem to believe he could really be a wizard. [19:23] <huebbe> yes, he clearly says no [19:23] <fawkes28> he thought it was too good to be true [19:23] <Shard> Again why I like Harry say ovwer Garion [19:23] <huebbe> i'm just harry [19:23] <Aislinn> He's mainly worried that Hagrid must be wrong about him [19:23] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that mostly his resistance was because he thought Hagrid was joking [19:23] <Tanaqui> i don't think i'd call it resistance...it's more like shock and disbelief [19:23] <AgathaChristy> Hi all, what's up, I do not get the topic? Harry's Hero's Journey.... I will read and try to catch on. [19:23] <Aislinn> right, tanaqui [19:23] <ltbrave23> don't think he resists it was more of a to good to be true thing [19:23] <fawkes28> i dont think he wanted to get his hopes up [19:23] <huebbe> i agree fawkes [19:23] <Tanaqui> as others said, he didn't take too long to accept his call [19:23] <huebbe> something more tempting than his current life [19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> dont feel pressured to comment Agatha Its fine to read along [19:24] <Pellinore> He's grounded in the reality he knows of "There's no Magic"! so asks questions and is sceptical until shown otherwise. [19:24] <Shard> I mean there are Hero's that are constantly complaining Why me, and Harry doesn't do that [19:24] <fawkes28> Harry's reactions shows us that he is truely the hero [19:24] <cbm> I think it was a lack of real understanding of what Hagrid offered [19:24] <Shard> The instant he thinks Snape is going to get the STone, Harry goes into action [19:24] <MrMcGonagall> There was so much Harry didn't know or understand about his past, that I think his resistance mostly was a sense of initial disbelief [19:24] <Shard> I got tired of the whining little "Why me?" Hero and want to see [19:24] <Shard> "Why not? [19:24] <Tanaqui> that might be the other 'resistance' -- the idea that he could escape the life at privet drive [19:24] <Aislinn> but he recognizes the truth of what Hagrid says, when he asks if anything funny has ever happened around him [19:24] <huebbe> and then it is complete [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry grew up thinking he was nothing special so he really didnt know what to make of Hagrid's news at first, I think [19:25] <Aislinn> yes, sooner, I agree [19:25] <fawkes28> it takes him some time - before he realizes it is the truth - it just shows us that he is very humble [19:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> do you guys feel like he resisted the call on a larger level - such as his call to be Voldemort's murderer? [19:25] <MrMcGonagall> If I grew up in the Dursley household, I'd seize the chance to go anywhere else but there. [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> I do think so chocolate [19:25] <Aislinn> and he doesn't really understand what it is that he is being called to, in that time in the shack on the rock [19:25] <Tanaqui> he had an inkling...it was just squished to the back of his mind by the dursleys [19:25] <Shard> Hes humble yes, but that doesnt stop him and in fact MAKES him more special because he wants to do what is right from age 11 [19:25] <Shard> ]Harry is just awesome [19:26] <harryfreak359> Yes me too Sooner [19:26] <huebbe> but, is there another time when he clearly says "no"? [19:26] <ltbrave23> i also think he did chocolate [19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> I like how Jo put it once. Just because Harry's world is magical, does not mean that he leaves his problems behind. In fact, he has worse problems in the "better" world [19:26] <MrMcGonagall> I think you're on to something there, chocolate. Harry often is reluctant to put himself forward. [19:26] * moody has joined #lounge [19:26] <Aislinn> yes, that's so true, Sooner [19:26] <Shard> At one point during PS he did because he thought it wasn't worth the trouble, but I dint thin khe ever does so again [19:26] <Shard> Very true Sooner [19:27] <Aislinn> he just replaces one type of problems for another, but he still has to deal with human nature and people's weaknesses [19:27] <huebbe> absolutely, thats what makes him an everyman [19:27] <Shard> I agree Choco, I tink he dealt with that in HHBOP [19:27] <Shard> HBP [19:27] * gryffindorite has joined #lounge [19:27] <Shard> Would everyone hate it if Harry did have to "Murder" Voldemort? [19:28] <Aislinn> hi gryffindorite [19:28] <moody> heya all....i know this is off topic but im currently watchin the goblet of fire so im all harry pottery here!! that doesnt make any sense i know...grr, it annoys me so much how hermione acts in the film, and also the direction rons dad is givin in the film (when the're in the tent) is so bad! [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> Oftentimes the hero needs a mentor or somebody to convince them to accept the call to adventure. Does Hagrid fill this role, or is it mostly Harry's own decision? [19:28] <huebbe> I see it as Hagrid [19:28] <Pellinore> same [19:28] <MrMcGonagall> Hagrid sort of helps him over the bump. [19:28] <gryffindorite> hi [19:28] <cbm> I think it is Harry's decision once Hagrid told him what was happening [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that initially in book 1 it is Hagrid. As we move on, it is definitely DD and then Harry himself [19:29] <MrMcGonagall> DD is also someone who helps him accept his "mission" in the series at various points. [19:29] <huebbe> heros usually have a gaurdein and then a mentor and helpers [19:29] <Shard> Hagird does help but I think Albus is the real mentor figure, but then Harry has had alot of mentors huh? [19:29] <moody> dumbledore!! wise and [19:29] <Pellinore> yea lighting the fire with his wand didn't hurt or giving dudley a tail ;o [19:29] <Aislinn> yes, Hagrid helps explain the situation to him, and also shows him the magical world, by taking him to Diagon Alley [19:29] <Tanaqui> i have trouble seeing hagrid as a mentor... [19:29] <fawkes28> i think it was important for hagrid to be the initial mentor so he has someone to turn to in the wizarding world [19:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think it's partially his decision... Voldemort answered the call without using Dumbledore as a mentor... seeing how Harry first dealt with learning he was a wizard, and then how Voldemort dealt with it just accentuated how different their choices make them [19:29] * gryffindorite left #lounge [] [19:29] * Joyhawk2121 has quit [Bye] [19:29] <huebbe> yes fawkes [19:29] <Tanaqui> but he was the convincing factor for harry [19:29] <Shard> I dunno Hagrid sorta just cuations Harry alot and tells im to keep his nose out of it [19:29] <Aislinn> Dumbledore is definitely his most important mentor [19:29] <moody> hagrid is just a father figure [19:29] <Shard> So I think Albus is the most influential [19:30] <AgathaChristy> Moody, I agree, the movie is not on key, and I do not like how they have the Fake Moody doing that stupid TOUNGE lapping thing, sick!! and stupid. [19:30] <huebbe> yes ailinn, as DD becomes the wise guide for harry [19:30] <Aislinn> good point, chocolate [19:30] <Pellinore> you don't have to be really smart or competent to be a mentor to an 11 year old [19:30] <cbm> I think in some waysHagrid understood Harry as he was alone too much of the time [19:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha pellinore [19:30] <moody> yea exactly agathaChristy!! i hate that tongue thing too!! why does he do it, oh why??? [19:30] * kaelgirl has quit [Bye] [19:30] <fawkes28> hagrid did a lot for harry in the beginning - i consider him very much so to be a mentor at least for the beginning of the book [19:30] <MrMcGonagall> Hagrid is a bit more like an uncle, or older brother or cousin. Encouraging to Harry, but not the same kind of mentor as DD. [19:30] <huebbe> yes fawkes [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> Well, as Harry matures his needs for what his mentor should be changes [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I'd consider Hagrid a giver of gifts [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> not mentor [19:31] <Shard> I mean Hjarry even has to take care of HAgrid's problem with Norbert, hardly befetting of a Mentor [19:31] <huebbe> according to Campbell, if thats who we are following the hero does have a gaurdien...and that is Hagrid [19:31] <cbm> A mentor in the beginning, then Harry outgrows him [19:31] <Shard> That I agree with Huebbe [19:31] <moody> harry take more care of hagrid!! [19:31] <Tanaqui> official definition of mentor: counselor or teacher [19:31] <Shard> and I think it will get Hagrid killed [19:31] <moody> they are both outsiders (harry an hagrid) [19:31] <huebbe> but doesnt' a mentor connotate more of instruction? [19:32] <Pellinore> the instruction doesn't have to be intentional [19:32] <Shard> Mentor is someone to look up to, not just literarly in Hagrids case [19:32] <cbm> Sometimes the instruction can just be by example [19:32] <ltbrave23> i see hagrid as the accidental mentor [19:32] <Shard> Yeah what not to do [19:32] <moody> no mentor is not someone to look up to, its someone to teach and instruct [19:32] <huebbe> true, but look at all the information DD gives to harry [19:32] <hrh7> Does a mentor have to be good? Snape pushes Harry also and makes him want to continue. [19:33] <Pellinore> yea mimicry of someone can lead to a mentor relationship w/out the mentor really participating in an active way. [19:33] <Tanaqui> lol shard. i see a mentor as someone you respect and someone with wisdom you can learn from [19:33] <Shard> Good point hrh7 [19:33] <AgathaChristy> I have no idea, but Jr. Crouch was not even in Harry's dream at the Riddle house [19:33] <Shard> Snape is a hard as rock teacher, [19:33] <Aislinn> %b no bolding please agatha [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> Crossing the threshold is the moment in which the hero leaves the ordinary world behind. What moment in PS/SS represented this most powerfully for you? [19:33] <cbm> But you have different mentors at different times in your life, I think Hagrid left the role of mentor at the sane time he got the egg [19:33] <cbm> same [19:33] <Shard> Diagon Alley [19:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the alley to Diagon Alley [19:34] <fawkes28> definitely in diagon alley [19:34] <AgathaChristy> Moody, I agree also, that I do not think the actress ?always? grasps the Hermione of the book [19:34] <MrMcGonagall> I think it was entering Diagon Alley [19:34] <Pellinore> The Brick Wall [19:34] <Tanaqui> agreed--diagon alley [19:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> There were so many [19:34] <Shard> Wow seems like everyone agrees [19:34] <moody> yea, i hate wen they change the book, agathaChristy, and wen harry finds the dead body in the woods, he doesnt even tell anyone...its mad, it not even explained! [19:34] <huebbe> yes totally Diagon Alley [19:34] <Shard> That was harry's crossing into the magical world [19:34] <Aislinn> that moment entering Diagon Alley was so magical! [19:34] <SoonerGryffindor> Let's please stay on the topic. Tonight's topic is the Hero's Journey [19:34] <cbm> agreed, but the 1st night in Hogwarts is special too [19:34] <hrh7> The sorting hat too. [19:35] <fawkes28> but another threshold is when he puts on the sorting hat [19:35] <huebbe> true, but the 1st threshold has to be the moment he steps from one world to another [19:35] <Pellinore> Or buying his 1st wand... that was his time alone with his main "Wizard" item. [19:35] <Shard> The train ride was pretty nice too, showing people that Harry would becme close friends too [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> platform 9 3/4? [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> going through the barrier [19:35] <moody> i loved the first trip to honeydukes [19:36] <cbm> I think that whole day is one large threshold of many moments [19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I do think that the train ride is symbolic of the threshold for every book [19:36] <Shard> I think at this point it was a subconcious crossing, in that he doesn't yet know the man he is to become. Like Hagrid said 7 years time and he won't know himself [19:36] <huebbe> yes but he has already seen Diagon Alley [19:36] <Aislinn> hi future [19:36] <Shard> Remember before the sOrting he didn't even think he was worthy of any of the houses [19:36] <hrh7> I agree with the wand. That was when he first did magic himself. Sparks anyway. [19:36] <futureweasley> hello all! [19:36] <huebbe> hi future [19:36] <cbm> welcome back FW [19:36] <Pellinore> now that i think of it the trying out wands is what i'm sticking with for an answer to the crossing over. He's a real wizard at that point. [19:36] <Shard> Hi FW! [19:36] <fawkes28> i think Jo does a great job creating several different thresholds in this book [19:36] <Aislinn> yes, fawkes [19:36] <moody> hi FW [19:36] <moody> yep [19:36] <cbm> agreed [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Sooner, that the Hogwarts Express is a definite threshold in every book. [19:36] * Punky has quit [Bye] [19:37] <moody> bye punky [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> except in CoS of course [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Ford Anglia! [19:37] <huebbe> do all books begin with the train or diagon alley????? [19:37] * NYBookworm has joined #lounge [19:37] <huebbe> i can't remember [19:37] <fawkes28> hi nyb [19:37] <moody> wheres AgathaChristy gone!! [19:37] <Shard> Each book as a different means of getting to his Magical World it seems [19:37] <Aislinn> hi NYB [19:37] <NYBookworm> hi [19:37] <huebbe> hinyb [19:37] <AgathaChristy> I am here Moody, slow reader, gggg [19:37] <harryfreak359> hi nybookworm [19:37] <cbm> they all begin with Harry at home before the journey starts [19:38] <moody> i know so im i!! [19:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think each magical area have thresholds... Ministry of Magic, Hogwarts, Gryffindor Common Room, Diagon Alley, Hogwarts Express [19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> I see several different potential thresholds: Going to Diagon Alley, the Hogwarts Express, crossing the Lake, going to the Leaky Cauldron [19:38] <moody> so many different opinions!! [19:38] <huebbe> I know the Dursley's I was just thinking something else [19:38] <ltbrave23> i think it is the leaky cauldron [19:38] <harryfreak359> yes agreed, Sooner [19:39] <huebbe> I was looking for a pattern overal [19:39] <Shard> That pattern is to change for book 7 no doubt though I think, Harry might not take those portals and choose other routes [19:39] <huebbe> true [19:39] <Pellinore> 1st kiss, 1st dance, 1st attempt at using a curse, entire cave sequence. [19:39] <moody> when he finds out bout the prophesy [19:39] <AgathaChristy> I liked the Honey dukes with all that candy, it was like going to Disneyland. [19:39] <moody> yep...i wanted to eat all the sweets!! [19:40] <futureweasley> does Honeydukes qualify as the threshold to the Hero's Journey? [19:40] <Tanaqui> the thing is, you usually only have one threshold--it's a place or point of beginning...we'd have to define all the different types of thresholds to accommodate all of them... [19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> no [19:40] <huebbe> no [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha no [19:40] <Tanaqui> and i'll stop referring to the dictionary now ;) [19:40] <fawkes28> right tanaqui [19:40] <huebbe> yes tanaqui [19:40] <moody> awh, im watchin the bit where neville is upset...thats the best bit in the films, they got it so right, with the stainglass window..etc.. [19:40] <futureweasley> well, if guess if the hero is bound and determined to do his tasks on a sugar high, I would think not [19:40] <AgathaChristy> sure it does futureweasly [19:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha moody... this ain't a film discussion [19:41] <Aislinn> The brick wall into Diagon Alley was definitely a threshold for Harry, as he crossed from the Muggle world into a magical one [19:41] <huebbe> lol [19:41] <moody> i know, sorry! [19:41] <AgathaChristy> If you had lived in a cupboard under the stair for 11 years, it would be like your first breath of freedom [19:41] <Aislinn> but he crosses back into the muggle world after that [19:41] <huebbe> yes aislinn i totally agree [19:41] <ltbrave23> but he already crossed when he entered the leaky caulron, being that it is a place only wizards can see [19:41] <huebbe> there actually has to be a "threshold" [19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> How would you describe Harry's reaction to entering this hitherto unknown magical world? [19:41] <MrMcGonagall> I rather liked the scene in the Leaky Cauldron, too, when he has all of these wizards coming up to him. [19:41] <Shard> That must have really irked him in book 5 to have to return yet again to the place he did not want to be [19:42] <Pellinore> True but the moment he becomes a "real" wizard is when he buys hsi 1st wand imho ;o [19:42] <Aislinn> In some ways I think that his true threshold may be either the trip on the Hogwarts Express, or arriving at Hogwarts [19:42] <AgathaChristy> And going to Honeydukes was a threshold of finally having no walls, no adults, [19:42] <AgathaChristy> freedom. [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> awe [19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> awe [19:42] <fawkes28> i love his reaction - it would probably be the same as mine [19:42] <Aislinn> He seems awestruck by it to me [19:42] <MrMcGonagall> He's definitely amazed and astonished. [19:42] <NYBookworm> he is amazazed like a tourist from a small town in NYC [19:42] <Pellinore> trepidation, wonder and curiousity [19:42] <huebbe> it could still be the process aislinn [19:42] <Tanaqui> okay, i see what you're saying aislinn...i can buy that [19:42] <huebbe> so I can see that [19:42] <futureweasley> well, classic Harry. So aware of his surroundings, but so unsure of his place [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> how bout a person from the 3rd world in NYC [19:42] <fawkes28> he never lets it get to his head - which is why Harry is so fitting for the hero [19:42] <Shard> Agreedf FW [19:42] <MrMcGonagall> excellent point, FW [19:42] <Shard> It isnt' until later that he is sure of himself [19:42] <Tanaqui> harry's reaction: like a kid who's been told they can go to disney world--a place they've always wanted to go to [19:42] <huebbe> yes faukes [19:43] <moody> i wanted it to happen to me, i think thats why hp books are so loved!! everyone want to go away to a magical lovely place [19:43] <MrMcGonagall> He's very much an observer in the early books. [19:43] <moody> oh i think harry is a bit big headed now though [19:43] <Aislinn> Yes, tanaqui - the magical world is SO much better than the one he has left [19:43] <huebbe> what is best is that Rowling does it in the series at the same time as doing it in all books [19:43] <harryfreak359> he was MrM, definitely [19:43] <Shard> I dont think so, not in PS and CoS [19:44] <Shard> He does get a bit big headed in OOTP [19:44] <Shard> \But it is deflated in HBP [19:44] <moody> i wished dd didnt tell harry he only let ron be watever its called, prefect, because he felt harry had too much to cope with allready [19:44] <AgathaChristy> there are many threshholds in one persons life, not just one. [19:44] <Pellinore> We had a guy from a very small town walk into the Pennstate Football stadium. His reaction would about match what i'd see Harry reacting to the wizards... where did all of these people come from and why are they dressed like that ;o [19:44] <huebbe> but not when we are talking about a literary hero [19:44] <Shard> I think Ron deserved the badge actually, Harry didn't need it [19:45] <moody> yep shard [19:45] <Shard> Harry has bigger issues to deal wih [19:45] <moody> i actually felt proud ron got it!! [19:45] <SoonerGryffindor> In reference to the biblical prophet Jonah, the next stage of the hero's journey is entering the belly of the whale, perhaps likened to being "swallowed" by the new world one has entered. What symbolizes this in Harry's journey? [19:45] <hrh7> I think it showed that DD really did favor Harry more than a teacher should [19:45] <moody> then disappointed about why! [19:45] <Aislinn> I think it is the trip across the lake, and under Hogwarts [19:45] <Shard> I would say going down that Trap Door where Fluffy was [19:45] <fawkes28> I think it is Harry passing through the trapdoor [19:45] <Aislinn> The symbolism, in the way Jo wrote it, was so graphic [19:46] <Aislinn> almost like a birth [19:46] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Aislinn. [19:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that for the series as a whole, it is finding out about the prophecy and what he is going to have to do [19:46] <huebbe> yes, going into the underworld [19:46] <Shard> Or would that be the underworld phase [19:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> is the belly of the whale different than decending into underworld? [19:46] <cbm> I think there are many times Harry does this, because I think there are many mini journey's throuh gh the series [19:46] <Tanaqui> hmmm...swallowed...that would mean completely engulfed... [19:46] <MrMcGonagall> I could see that, Sooner - going into the depths of the ministyr [19:46] <moody> im gonna go folk (and watch the rest og goblet of fire) happy chattin, bye all (and AgathaChristy):) [19:46] <Pellinore> Being swallowed by the whale would be to me all of the new stuff he has to buy and learn, its just a huge influx of new information and sensations that would be overwhelming. [19:46] <Shard> I second Choco's question [19:46] <hrh7> The sorting hat. Then he is accept into his house. [19:46] <Tanaqui> i think i agree with hrh7 [19:47] <huebbe> it is the process once in the actually belly the hero then faces the initiation phase [19:47] <AgathaChristy> well what do you describe Literary hero to be? superman, he is boy who like all [19:47] <moody> bye smile [19:47] <fawkes28> i think everything having to do with diagon alley is only crossing the treshold - i think the belly of the whale is deeper [19:47] <AgathaChristy> of us grow into our own skins and learns as we go long. [19:47] * moody left #lounge [] [19:48] <cbm> so we have the Trapdoor, the chamber, the shack, the portkey, the ministry, and in HBO the cave, I think all of them fit for that part of the journey in each book [19:48] <Shard> Is the Whale like going into the Underworld? [19:48] <huebbe> yes, I think so [19:48] <fawkes28> exactly, cbm - i agree with those points [19:48] <Aislinn> those are each definitely points when Harry travels into the innermost place, cbm [19:49] <Shard> "What abuot the Graveyard? [19:49] <Pellinore> to me the whale represents being overwhelmed by what you're experiencing. [19:49] <cbm> The portkey takes him to the Graveyard [19:49] <huebbe> that is what makes this series so intriguing....every book has the code [19:49] <Tanaqui> is overwhelmed bad in this case, pellinore? or just all your senses are on alert? [19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i would think that if the entire series was seen as one journey, the graveyard would be the belly of the whale [19:50] <Pellinore> not bad but its the struggle to understand what's going on around you. [19:50] <Shard> I think GoF is really the "pinnacle" book, not sure that is the right word, where the series hinges and swings into a different direction that isn't paralled anywhere else in the series [19:50] <huebbe> i suppose it depends....but both fit...series and books [19:50] <SoonerGryffindor> The hero experiences a road of trials. What do you consider to be some of the key trials Harry passes through in the course of the series? [19:50] <cbm> I think that it is one journey, but each book has it's own mini Hero's journey [19:50] <Aislinn> I think the Belly is an ealier point in the journey shard [19:50] <fawkes28> i think one of harry's biggest trials has been Snape [19:50] <Shard> The Obstcle Course, the fight with the Basilisk, the trials in GoF [19:50] <Tanaqui> deciding who he'd be friends with was a trial [19:50] <AgathaChristy> Well I think being in a whale , like Jonah has nothing to do with Harry Potter [19:51] <ltbrave23> i agree fawkes [19:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Umbridge's detentions [19:51] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree with you fawkes [19:51] <Aislinn> The 7 obstacles in the PS [19:51] <huebbe> i agree fawkes [19:51] <Shard> I agree Aislinn [19:51] <MrMcGonagall> The tasks of the Tri-Wizard Tournament [19:51] <cbm> I think Surviving going into the belly of the whale 6 times [19:51] <Shard> We do have an essay on that right? The 7 trails? [19:51] <AgathaChristy> Jonah was in the whale because he refused to Obey God and do what God told him to do [19:51] <Pellinore> I'm more inclinded to go the Moby Dick route for the whale then Jonah [19:51] <huebbe> to match the seven deadly sins? [19:51] <fawkes28> another constant trial that Harry faces is with Draco [19:51] <Aislinn> having to deal with people's changing opinions of him, whether it be The Boy Who Lived, the Heir of Slytherin, The boy who stole the Triwizard spot, the Liar, The Chosen ONe [19:52] <Shard> 7 sins, 7 trials and 7 DADA teachers [19:52] <MrMcGonagall> Dealing with incompetent DADA professors, too. [19:52] <harryfreak359> Yes, that had to be a big part of that Asilinn [19:52] <Aislinn> having to deal with that and keep centered is an important part of his growth [19:52] <Aislinn> and journey [19:52] <SoonerGryffindor> Lockhart in book 2 was a huge trial [19:52] <ltbrave23> i think peter pettigrew was an important test for him [19:52] <fawkes28> Harry has faced much taunting and isolation at school - trials that not many people could face [19:52] <Aislinn> yes, he was sooner [19:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree ltbrave [19:53] <Shard> Harry has had alot to learn, not just about wizarding battles but also about growing up and knowing what it is to be a man, to be able to choose your own destiny as oppposed to it beeiong handed to you [19:53] <Aislinn> Dobby is another trial for him, in the way he tries to "help" him in CoS [19:53] <cbm> His whole childhood was a trial that made him [19:53] <huebbe> maybe the point is, his road of trails is in-numerable and it would take us more that 2 hours to count them all! [19:53] <fawkes28> i agree, aislinn [19:53] <Shard> Poor Dobby he tried so hard [19:53] <SoonerGryffindor> What do you think is the purpose of heroes having to endure a road of trials? [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> Harry has a whole love-hate relationship with the opinion of the wizarding world, as well [19:53] <fawkes28> i definitely agree, huebbe [19:53] <Tanaqui> makes you stronger [19:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think most of harry's trials have included how he deals with people... Peter Pettigrew, Umbridge, Snape, Slughorn, Voldemort, Scrimgeaur [19:53] <huebbe> makes them stronger, learning experience etc. [19:53] <cbm> It makdes for a great story smile [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> It strengthens them on their journey [19:54] <Aislinn> I think it is a way for them to mature and grow [19:54] <MrMcGonagall> They learn from the bttles [19:54] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that its the only way they can ultimately suceed. [19:54] <Pellinore> without trials it is very difficult to show Character Growth [19:54] <ltbrave23> i agree chocolate [19:54] <Shard> Its how they learn to grow SG, yuou can't learn anything being papmered like Dudley [19:54] <futureweasley> it makes them more real [19:54] <Shard> Pain is life, pain is growth [19:54] <fawkes28> I think the trials, especially the 7 tasks, give Harry a great deal of confidence so that in the end he will be able to do it on his own [19:54] <Aislinn> if the Journey is a metaphor for individuation, it is a way for them to learn about themselves and become self actualized [19:54] <futureweasley> noone breezes through obsticles [19:54] <Shard> Not even Harry [19:54] * Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [19:54] <huebbe> harry's characterization is what facinates most of us, I would think. We see him at every stage of life almost [19:54] <fawkes28> hi love [19:55] <huebbe> hi love [19:55] <Shard> Hi L4F [19:55] <Love4Fawkes> hi all! [19:55] <huebbe> child, pre-teen, teen and so on [19:55] <MrMcGonagall> there's definitely hardships and trials Harry experiences in each book. [19:55] <MrMcGonagall> All preparing him for what is to come. [19:55] <fawkes28> self-actualization is so important, aislinn [19:56] <Shard> I agree Fawkes28 [19:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I know this isn't a religious discussion, but this question reminds me of James 1:3... "testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything" [19:56] <Shard> That's why I think HArry kicks butt [19:56] <Tanaqui> is harry self actualized? [19:56] <Shard> HGe looks inside himself for answers [19:56] <cbm> That is true from the 1st look at him moving spiders off his clothing you knew he was special [19:56] <fawkes28> not yet [19:56] <Aislinn> yes, the trials help to make the hero strong, and prepared for the final confrontation [19:56] <Tanaqui> or is he still moving towards it? [19:56] <fawkes28> harry needs to face more trials before that can happen [19:56] <Aislinn> I think he is a lot closer, than he was tanaqui [19:56] <Shard> Makes me wonder if those 7 trails were put there for Harry to go through, I mean that Albus puyt them there to train Harry [19:57] <huebbe> yes fawkes [19:57] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Shard [19:57] <huebbe> he is not done by a long shot [19:57] <Love4Fawkes> i think dd always though harry deserved a shot at it and would need the training [19:57] <SoonerGryffindor> Often the hero has helpers along the road of trials. Who are Harry's helpers? [19:57] <fawkes28> dumbledore [19:57] <MrMcGonagall> Ron, Hermione obviously [19:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> blah, everyone [19:57] <Tanaqui> i don't know about dd 'putting' them there...but he didn't keep harry from experiencing his trials [19:57] <fawkes28> hermione and ron [19:57] * Aislinn has quit [Bye] [19:57] * Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:57] <NYBookworm> Ron Hermione DD Hagrid [19:57] <Love4Fawkes> sirius, lupin [19:57] <cbm> brb [19:58] * cbm has quit [Bye] [19:58] <AgathaChristy> Shard, I do not think AD put obsticals in Harry's path of life to make him stronger [19:58] * DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [19:58] <fawkes28> hey debbie [19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> hello Debbie [19:58] <Aislinn> Hi Debbie [19:58] <futureweasley> well, Snape and Petunia come to mind...they are reluctant protectors, but I think they are helpers none the less [19:58] <Shard> yes R/Hr but also the Twins, Hagrid, Lupin,. Tonks, Ginny, Neville and Luna [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> hey smile [19:58] <huebbe> Mr. and Mrs. Weasly, make up the family unit he is missing [19:58] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, Debbie! [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey debbie [19:58] <huebbe> hi debbie [19:58] * cbm has joined #lounge [19:58] <Love4Fawkes> hi debbie [19:58] <ltbrave23> mcgonagall [19:58] <fawkes28> almost everyone except for the DE's and Voldemort [19:58] <huebbe> sirius [19:58] <Tanaqui> yeah, all the weasleys...much of the order... [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agree with fawkes28 [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> we could put anyone on this list [19:59] <Love4Fawkes> that is true, we could [19:59] <Aislinn> I think that Harry reflects on some of his helpers, at DD's funeral [19:59] <huebbe> absolutley [19:59] <MrMcGonagall> yes, all the people who have been there for him in one way or another [19:59] <Pellinore> Ron, Hermione, all of his teachers, good and bad, OOTPheonix, Dursleys(know what not to do), pretty much everyone you meet will have some impact but Ginny, Nevile, Luna, DD, are his major assistants. [19:59] <Aislinn> When he thinks about the people who have stood in front of him, protecting him, and have died for hiim [19:59] <Tanaqui> but his most intimate helpers would be ron, hermione and dd...sirius would follow closely after that [19:59] <Shard> Yes that is true Harry has had alot of help and I think that's a good thing, no one should stand alone [19:59] <Shard> Harry will face LV on his own but his frirends will get himn there first [20:00] <Aislinn> I agree that Ron and Hermione are his most constant helpers [20:00] <Aislinn> I see DD as his mentor [20:00] <Love4Fawkes> you're right shard and I think harry will learn this lesson in DH [20:00] <huebbe> what I find amazing is that he has so much help, but he is so alone [20:00] <ltbrave23> dobby is all too willing to help [20:00] <Love4Fawkes> too willing is right [20:00] <Tanaqui> i guess with the memories he shared with harry, i see dd as a helper as well as mentor [20:00] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:00] <cbm> Many Many People will be willing to help [20:00] <Pellinore> I would really be disappointed if after these 6 books, Harry does the rest solo. Teamwork>>>>>>>solo [20:01] <fawkes28> i think sometimes dobby has caused more harm than good [20:01] <huebbe> and I think of the moment at the end of HBP....which really illuminates this [20:01] <AgathaChristy> Huebbe, we are all alone in our walk of life, we have helpers, and friends but we have to do the walking [20:01] <Aislinn> I don't see him as going solo, pellinore [20:01] <MrMcGonagall> Dobby has more that redeemed himself. [20:01] <MrMcGonagall> than [20:01] <huebbe> yes, I think that is the point [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I've seen him as solo this whole time [20:01] <SoonerGryffindor> Are there characters that have helped Harry without him being conscious of it?* [20:01] <Love4Fawkes> i don't either aislinn. even though he wants to now, he'll learn how much he needs his friends [20:01] * fawkes28 has the best answer ever - SNAPE [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> except in the ministry of magic [20:01] <cbm> I think that part of his journey in DH is him having to be willing to accept help to finish his task [20:01] <Aislinn> agreed love [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> i agree fawkes [20:02] <hrh7> He rejects help sometimes. Like when DD wanted to help in CS and Harry wouldn't tell him he was hearing voices. [20:02] * DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:02] <Shard> Yes Sooner [20:02] <Shard> Albus is a bigf one [20:02] <ltbrave23> i also agree [20:02] <AgathaChristy> Dobby means well, his heart is right but he did make errors. [20:02] <Tanaqui> draco--he helped harry with his decision to be friends with ron [20:02] <Aislinn> Snape has definitely taught Harry lessons, both the ones he intended to and ones he doesn't realize he has [20:02] <Shard> lol yeah Snape [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> yes hrh7, harry can be foolish that way [20:02] <fawkes28> harry is not going to be conscious of snape helping him until the final chapters [20:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Well madam pomfrey helps him all the time when he's not conscious.... ark ark ark [20:02] <SoonerGryffindor> I also think that characters like Peeves, Umbridge, Fudge and Lockhart have all taught him lessons as well [20:02] <Shard> Some have evne said Dudley [20:02] <cbm> I can not see the circumstances where Harry would take snapes help [20:02] <huebbe> yes aislinn, Snape has probably helped Harry the most [20:02] <ltbrave23> i think that peter has helped harry without either of them knowing it [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> Dudley [20:02] <Shard> That dudley trained Harry to be fast, on his feet and aware of things [20:02] <Aislinn> I also think that Draco has been a catalyst for Harry learning and growing, although neither of them would ever care to admit it [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> and all the dursleys really [20:03] <huebbe> Totally agree [20:03] <Love4Fawkes> thats very true aislinn [20:03] <Pellinore> well since the book is primarily from Harry's perspective, if he doesn't see it we most likely will not see it. But i still see DD has having done things to follow Harry around at different points to help him along, invis DD/Pheonix, portraits, Tonks etc. [20:03] <Pellinore> & Figg [20:03] <huebbe> we learn the most from our enemies.... [20:03] <MrMcGonagall> Barty Crouch Jr. also helped him out in DAADA [20:03] <fawkes28> that is very true huebbe [20:03] <Aislinn> that's true, Mr M [20:03] <Aislinn> he actually was a good teacher, even if he turned out to be totally twisted [20:03] <cbm> Crouch had to teach DADA competently in order to keep his cover [20:04] <SoonerGryffindor> Yeah, why n the world did he teach Harry to resist the imperius curse? [20:04] <huebbe> Rowling likes to always have us look at the opposite of things [20:04] <fawkes28> it is funny how the people who don't mean to help harry actually do [20:04] * SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [20:04] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [20:04] <cbm> I bet he was suprised that Harry resisted it [20:04] <huebbe> yes!!! [20:04] <Pellinore> wanted to toy with him to see what his weaknessess were would be my guess. [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> I wondered that too [20:04] * Shard thinks Sooner is right on the money [20:04] <ltbrave23> to size him up [20:04] <Aislinn> I think he figured that Harry would be dead by the end of the year, so it didn't really matter, sooner [20:04] <Shard> I agree SG I always found that puzzling [20:04] <Shard> I guess he wanted to tell LV if Harry could resist it or not [20:04] <MrMcGonagall> True, Aislinn [20:05] <harryfreak359> yes Sooner me too [20:05] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, but he handed him a powerful weapon [20:05] <Shard> but frankly I think Crocuh Jr backfired there [20:05] <Tanaqui> he probably also enjoyed having a chance to curse without blowing his cover [20:05] <Pellinore> maybe he thought he might try and hit him with it later just to make sure he grabed the Cup in the maze. [20:05] <Love4Fawkes> i agree tanaqui [20:05] <huebbe> oh, yes he enjoyed that moment [20:05] * DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:05] <Shard> I actually think it's Harry's natural talent to resist certain spells and effects [20:05] <SoonerGryffindor> Shapeshifters are characters that seem to fill different roles at different times, the characters whom you can't quite pin down. What Shapeshifters has Harry encountered?** [20:05] <cbm> In order to keep acting like moody, Crouch Jr. had to do his job well so DD would not be suspicious [20:05] <huebbe> Snape [20:05] <huebbe> LOL [20:05] <Love4Fawkes> SNAPE [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> Snapeshifter hehe [20:06] <Shard> Snape grumbl;e [20:06] <Aislinn> well, there is once again, that greasy git, the snapeshifter himself [20:06] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:06] <MrMcGonagall> Snape par excellence [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> wb Debbie [20:06] <Pellinore> Barty Crouch JR., Rat boy and beetle girl [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> stupid hotel internet :P [20:06] <huebbe> Oh I love Snape as much as I love Miss Havasham! [20:06] <Aislinn> He is definitely one of the most classic examples of Shapeshifter that I've seen in literature [20:06] <Shard> S o much left in the air [20:06] <fawkes28> ok ok i will have to agree that snape is definitely a snapeshifter laugh [20:06] <MrMcGonagall> His whole double agent role [20:06] * cbm thinks that Snape has been consistently sadistic through all 6 books [20:07] <AgathaChristy> Lupin, if you call transforming to a warewolf [20:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> His own emotions... especially in 5 and 6 they're described as animalistic... very "shifting" [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> lol [20:07] <Shard> You are right CBM, but for what side and purpose [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> Peter and Rita are not only shapeshifters in the literary sense, they physically are as well [20:07] <Shard> Snape has the ability to know when and how to act [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> so is Sirius [20:07] <Aislinn> but his motives have been cast in different lights cbm, throughout the series [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> Sirius, James [20:07] <huebbe> anyone who is an animagus [20:07] * Greeneyes15 has joined #lounge [20:07] <Shard> Good point there about the Animagi [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> McGonagall [20:07] <huebbe> even our beloved Rita [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> hi greeneyes [20:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey greenie [20:07] <Greeneyes15> hey everyone! [20:08] <Pellinore> well McGonagall has always seemed straightforward so only in the physical sense was she a shapeshifter. [20:08] <Tanaqui> perhaps tonks? she can shift her appearance...though not her whole shape [20:08] <Aislinn> With Peter and Sirius, their roles changed - what we thought was true about them shifted, and revealed something quite different [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> who thinks that shapeshifters will play an important role in the end? [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and how? [20:08] <fawkes28> i do i do!!!! [20:08] <cbm> I think that one of JKRs strengths is that she writes her characters very consistently [20:08] <Shard> I do think Peter has a role to play [20:09] <Shard> as Snake food for Nagini [20:09] <hrh7> I think Snape will play a huge role. [20:09] <Love4Fawkes> i do too. i think there will be a number of characters who aren't what they seem [20:09] <fawkes28> i would love to answer but that is getting into a P3 discussion wink [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, Snape might make a cameo appearance in DH wink [20:09] <Shard> P3? [20:09] <Aislinn> Sunday's chats [20:09] <SoonerGryffindor> Shadows are characters that are often the exact opposite of the hero, a kind of anti-hero. What characters stand in stark contrast to Harry? [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true, but instead of just identifying how harry's story is a hero's journey, maybe applying consistencies from other stories to his? [20:10] <huebbe> LV! [20:10] <Shard> Voldemort, Draco [20:10] <futureweasley> urm, Snape? [20:10] <Pellinore> hehe, Snape bettre show up in DH... as a BIG ole Target [20:10] <Shard> Dudley [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> Snape [20:10] <Love4Fawkes> dudley [20:10] <cbm> Snape and Draco [20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> Voldemort [20:10] <Pellinore> Umbridge :P [20:10] <MrMcGonagall> Definitely voldemort [20:10] <Shard> LV Hates and Harry Loves [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Wormtail, by far [20:10] <Aislinn> yes, but I don't see him as an anti-hero [20:10] <Tanaqui> stark contrast? tom riddle [20:10] <Aislinn> voldemort, I mean [20:10] <Shard> Choco, I think Peter is too weak, but then that is the point huh? [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> totally This post has been edited by futureweasley**: Jan 31 2007, 09:24 PM

MJLeakyCon View Member Profile	Jan 31 2007, 09:10 PM Post #2
She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner	[20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> totally [20:11] <cbm> I did not answer Voldemort because we see so little of him in the series [20:11] <huebbe> LV represents the 7 deadly sins and harry represents the 7 Heavenly virtues! [20:11] <Shard> Then what do you see LV as? [20:11] <MrMcGonagall> I think Draco has served that role in the past, but his character is evolving. [20:11] <fawkes28> i think so too, mr. m [20:11] <Shard> Agreed Mr. McG [20:11] <AgathaChristy> So where do you get the 7 deadly sins and heavenly virtures? [20:11] <hrh7> LV. He is the one whose childhood we have seen. And it contrasts all along with Harry's [20:11] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M - Draco is a good example of that [20:11] <Pellinore> yea, Draco may turn into a tragic hero in the end. [20:12] <AgathaChristy> I do not get that thread, I know the #7 is to be important with what JKR said but.... [20:12] <huebbe> Do you think Draco's character will diminsh? [20:12] <Shard> Probably from the 7 DADA teachers AC [20:12] * Greeneyes15 has quit [Bye] [20:12] <futureweasley> Draco isn't dark, technically [20:12] <Love4Fawkes> i think there are a lot of similarities between LV and Harry's childhoods [20:12] * Greeneyes15 has joined #lounge [20:12] <Pellinore> nope he's blonde, even worse ;o [20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> now, isn't anti-hero different than a shadow? an anti-hero is a hero with non-heroic qualities [20:12] <Shard> lol Pell [20:12] <cbm> If Draco turns against Voldemort, Snape will be forced to follow because of the vow [20:12] <hrh7> But Harry has chosen to be good to LV's evil [20:12] <SoonerGryffindor> Shadows can also be characters that somehow express the hidden or repressed part of the hero's personality. Do you think Harry shares any qualities with these shadow characters, perhaps in a twisted way? [20:12] <Tanaqui> you could say the creevy brothers are a stark contrast...not a bad one, just very different from harry [20:12] <Shard> Good point Choco [20:12] <AgathaChristy> Like DD said, it is our choices. [20:13] <AgathaChristy> hrh7, I agree, Harry chose good [20:13] <DumbleDebbie> Voldy (Harry keeps thinking they are similar in a lot of ways) [20:13] <Love4Fawkes> i agree debbie [20:13] <huebbe> Dopplegangers! [20:13] <MrMcGonagall> I agree too, Debbie [20:13] <cbm> Harry's largest problem now is controlling his anger and hate. [20:13] <harryfreak359> yes, I agree Debbie [20:13] <Pellinore> ambition, willing to bend/break rules to get the job done. [20:13] <Tanaqui> i see a lot of loyalty in several characters that harry also exhibits [20:14] * Greeneyes15 has quit [Bye] [20:14] <Aislinn> I think that Harry actually shares some qualities with Snape as shadow [20:14] <Love4Fawkes> yup, i see that too aislinn [20:14] <Pellinore> ambition in the desire to win not in the percy type. [20:14] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Aislinn (and you beat me to it) [20:14] <fawkes28> that is so smart, aislinn [20:14] <huebbe> yes, particullary in Snape's worst memory [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> ah yes, so true [20:14] <huebbe> When I read that i thought....Harry [20:14] <Shard> Thats a good point, Harry didn't like sympathizing withg Snape [20:15] <AgathaChristy> Snape is half blood, and ? ashamed of it, and Harry is 1/2 blood but not ? [20:15] <Shard> Maybe Harry will learn to forgive Snape [20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> just like snape learned to forgive james ;) [20:15] <huebbe> I think he will Shard [20:15] <Pellinore> but he was willing to admit it to himself... that takes blunt self awareness [20:15] <Love4Fawkes> maybe shard, maybe he'll be given a good reason to forgive [20:15] <Aislinn> well, but that's the key difference, isn't it, chocolate? [20:15] <Aislinn> Harry makes better choices [20:15] <cbm> How? What could [20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that's what they have in common [20:15] <AgathaChristy> I think forgiving is part of loving which is what Harry has and LV does not. [20:15] <cbm> Snape say or do [20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> their grudges [20:15] <huebbe> perhaps harry will learn what DD did about snape [20:16] <Shard> Agreed Harry does make better choices hence the Forgiving where Snape does not [20:16] * kadi has joined #lounge [20:16] <Aislinn> but we haven't reached the end yet, and I don't think Harry will hold a grudge if he has evidence as reason not to, unlike snape [20:16] <SoonerGryffindor> Another type of character in the hero's journey is the tempter or temptress, who seeks to distract the hero from accomplishing his quest. Are there people that have distracted Harry from achieving his goal? [20:16] <huebbe> Agreed... [20:16] <cbm> Snape has killed his mentor and was responsible for the information getting to Voldemort that killed his parents, what could possibly make Harry trust Snape? [20:16] <fawkes28> i think the mirror is the temptress in this book [20:16] <huebbe> moaning myrtle in the bathroom! [20:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> veeeeela [20:17] <Aislinn> The mirror is an excellent example in PS [20:17] <Shard> Ginny? [20:17] <Tanaqui> rita skeeter [20:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ohh good call aislinn [20:17] <Shard> I agree Aislinn [20:17] * CarpeDiem has joined #lounge [20:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Cho [20:17] <cbm> Ginny is not a temptress as she wants to help Harry on his journey [20:17] <fawkes28> hi carpe [20:17] <Aislinn> hi carpe [20:17] <huebbe> agreed...mirror [20:17] <CarpeDiem> Hi all! smile [20:17] * MY has joined #lounge [20:17] <DumbleDebbie> hey CD [20:17] <Shard> I agree Cbm and I hope she does [20:17] <Aislinn> hi my [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> I wonder what it would be overall for the entire series [20:17] <MrMcGonagall> Ginny is the temptress that wasn't. [20:18] <fawkes28> i think the tempter in HBP is the Potions Book [20:18] <cbm> the women who asked him out during GOF, and he turned them all down [20:18] <Shard> My point exactly Mr. McG [20:18] <ltbrave23> i like it fawkes [20:18] <Shard> I so Agree Fawkes28 [20:18] <huebbe> Lily? [20:18] <Shard> Lilly is a guide from beoyond more like [20:18] * Madsdagirl has joined #lounge [20:18] <huebbe> if he had his mother, do you think Harry would continue the fight? [20:18] <fawkes28> hi mads [20:19] <MY> Sorry, Hi Aislinn [20:19] <Pellinore> the Tri-Wizard tournament seemed like one big distraction [20:19] <cbm> Yes [20:19] <ltbrave23> i think he would have [20:19] <Madsdagirl> hey [20:19] <Love4Fawkes> Dobby, even though he's trying to help he's more of a distraction [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> no way huebbe.... that's why all the Disney characters don't have moms! [20:19] <DumbleDebbie> hi mads [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> Temptations can also come from things. Are there things Harry has encountered in his magical journey that have threatened to distract him from his purpose?** [20:19] <kadi> If Harry had his mother it wouldn't be his fight. [20:19] <huebbe> lol [20:19] <Aislinn> I don't see Harry as actually being tempted away from his path throughout the series [20:19] <DumbleDebbie> Quidditch :p [20:19] <huebbe> there are moments....but he always finds his way [20:19] <Pellinore> good one DD [20:19] <Tanaqui> ah, here's where the mirror fits [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it's very rare that characters with both parents become heros [20:19] <huebbe> even Cho [20:19] <Love4Fawkes> I agree Aislinn, he's very focused [20:20] <Shard> Even if they werent dead, Harry woudl still want to defeat LV, that's thge point of HBP I thought [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that because LV keeps doing things every year to Harry, it keeps him focused on the task at hand [20:20] <Aislinn> but I agree with fawkes that the HBP book and the Mirror of Erised are 2 obects that came the closest to pulling him away from his path [20:20] <AgathaChristy> If LV had left him alone from the get go, he would not be distracted either. [20:20] <huebbe> yes choc. [20:20] <cbm> Draco is always good for distraction from what is important [20:20] <CarpeDiem> Yep! Quidditch is one thing...perhaps his fame is another? [20:20] <kadi> Even if something seeminly distracts him in the end it's always been a useful experience. [20:20] <huebbe> but ii dont think harry lives for fame [20:20] <ltbrave23> i think snape is a distraction. he is always so busy blaming Snape to see the true cause of it all. [20:20] <cbm> I think Quidditch helped him grow and I think he hates his fame [20:21] <futureweasley> I think that temptation comes in many forms, but Harry knows the road ahead of him, and he will be steadfast on that path [20:21] <Pellinore> fame or infamy? he's often vilified not only by the MoM but the wizarding public and students all ganged up on him. [20:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he's rarely tempted... but Ron and Hermione have both been... Hermione was tempted by the Time Turner in a way, and Ron had Lavender [20:21] <fawkes28> true, future [20:21] <MrMcGonagall> I agree fw. The hero has to overcome the temptations. [20:21] <huebbe> and that is what makes him a hero [20:21] <cbm> Will he consider Ginny a temptation and avoid her? I think so [20:22] <Love4Fawkes> i think he might try, but ginny won't let him [20:22] <Pellinore> Harry did get very dark with his desire to kill Sirius after eavesdropping in the bar. That seriously distracted him down the wrong path. [20:22] <huebbe> Even the Siren's in the Odessey were a temptation, but conquered [20:22] <AgathaChristy> what if Harry Being the Hero, kills LV and the end of hte book is Harry writing [20:22] <hrh7> He wants to avoid Ginny for her safety [20:22] <Tanaqui> perhaps even his need to free sirius was a bit of a temptation? [20:22] <AgathaChristy> the book about himself. [20:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe his yearning for attachments have been his temptation... building up relationships just to have them stripped away? [20:22] <Aislinn> that's an interesting thought, tanaqui [20:23] <huebbe> but was freeing Sirius the right thing to do? [20:23] <Love4Fawkes> that's true, his saving people thing has been a bit of a distraction [20:23] <DumbleDebbie> yes definitely tanaqui [20:23] <Tanaqui> i guess we need to figure out what that was distracting him from [20:23] <DumbleDebbie> going after a hurt Sirius in OotP was [20:23] <Aislinn> but are they? He is saving those people from LV, and foiling LV is his quest [20:23] <SoonerGryffindor> Tricksters are entertaining characters (sometimes malicious, sometimes just fun) who may distract or even hinder the character on his journey. Who are the tricksy people whom Harry has encountered? [20:23] <cbm> But his saving people thing is what makes him who he is and without it I think he would be doomed [20:23] <kadi> All of his "distractions" have been learning experiences though-- things that have made him stronger. [20:23] <SoonerGryffindor> Peeves [20:23] <huebbe> Peeves [20:24] <MrMcGonagall> Peeves is the ultimate trickster. [20:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Dudley [20:24] <futureweasley> Fred and George [20:24] <Tanaqui> sometimes, yes, aislinn--like saving mr. weasley [20:24] <Shard> Peeves yes [20:24] <Aislinn> Peeves is the most obvious [20:24] <hrh7> Dobby [20:24] <Shard> I think the Twins will be of GREAT help actually [20:24] <MrMcGonagall> I think Rita Skeeter is one, too. [20:24] <kadi> Filch. [20:24] <AgathaChristy> He went after Sirius because he loved him a friend/father figure, and need/want [20:24] <Shard> Umbridge and Rita are tricksters [20:24] <Tanaqui> rita for sure, yes [20:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> umbridge is too evil to be a trickster [20:24] <huebbe> ok..must go...must feed children.... [20:24] <DumbleDebbie> Filch [20:24] <kadi> Scrimgeor perhaps? [20:24] <fawkes28> peeves is definitely the best trickster in the series [20:24] <NYBookworm> dobby [20:24] <MrMcGonagall> Bye, huebbe [20:24] <DumbleDebbie> Snape wink [20:24] * huebbe has quit [Bye] [20:25] <Aislinn> Rita is a great example Mr M [20:25] <Tanaqui> i dunno if the twins were distracting harry though...peeves is another for sure [20:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Kreacher is a kind of trickster [20:25] <Tanaqui> good point chocolate! [20:25] <Aislinn> I agree, Tanaqui [20:25] <kadi> it's a broad definition biggrin [20:25] <futureweasley> Snape is like the anti-trickster. He doesn't have a humorous bone in his body [20:25] <futureweasley> at all [20:25] <MrMcGonagall> I think the tricksters have something to teach Harry in the series. [20:25] <DumbleDebbie> lol FW [20:26] <Aislinn> I see the twins as tricksters, but I don't think the represent tricksters in Harry's path [20:26] <CarpeDiem> Is Dobby a trickster? He is often hindering at times. [20:26] <kadi> Yes, I agree Mr M, I think they all do. [20:26] <Tanaqui> sooo...what is peeves teaching harry? [20:26] <MrMcGonagall> I remember what Harry says at the end of GoF - we'll all need a laugh [20:26] <fawkes28> i think so too - i think everyone has a role to play [20:26] * MY left #lounge [] [20:26] <Aislinn> yes, Carpe - I think Dobby is one [20:26] <Tanaqui> i think dobby is bumbling, but not a trickster [20:26] <DumbleDebbie> Peeves teaches him to never let down his guard LOL [20:26] <fawkes28> peeves has taught harry the importance of patience [20:26] <Shard> I think the Twins also have inventions to offer up to Harry [20:26] <Pellinore> Dobby droped the cake, screwed with the bludger, 9 3/4 wall [20:26] <Love4Fawkes> and to always think ahead debbie [20:26] <Shard> Maybe even Arthur's as well ;-) [20:26] <MrMcGonagall> the tricksters provide us with ssome of the lighter moments in the midst of the gathering darkness. [20:27] <Tanaqui> lol dumbledebbie--you're right [20:27] <Pellinore> Langlock Peeves! [20:27] <fawkes28> that is so profound, mr. m [20:27] <Aislinn> yes, Shard, the twins do have inventions that they provide Harry that are useful tools [20:27] <SoonerGryffindor> The nadir of the journey is the lowest point for the hero, one in which he often faces the possibility of death. What are some moments in the series in which all seems to be lost for Harry? Is there one that stands out? [20:27] <Aislinn> In fact, from that perspective, the Marauders are tricksters [20:27] <Shard> Nadir?! [20:27] <DumbleDebbie> graveyard [20:27] <Aislinn> providing the Marauders map [20:27] <fawkes28> definitely the graveyard, debbie [20:27] <hrh7> Chamber [20:27] <DumbleDebbie> facing Voldy the 1st time by the mirror [20:28] <kadi> Yep. [20:28] <Pellinore> Basilik poisoned Harry before Fawkes showed up [20:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> standing up to Voldemort in the graveyard [20:28] <cbm> Him being tied to the tombstone [20:28] <Tanaqui> i would say...graveyard is the one that stands out the most to me--there he really thought he would die [20:28] <Aislinn> I think the nadir is the underground that you were asking about earlier Shard [20:28] <kadi> Pretty much in every book there is that point. [20:28] <kadi> With the expecto patronum in POA [20:28] <Aislinn> so in each book, it is that crisis point [20:28] <Shard> nod Agreed Aislinn, just freaked that I see a Suikoden reference here lol [20:28] <Aislinn> the graveyard, through the trapdoor, the Dept of Mysteries, the Cave [20:28] <NYBookworm> well since i just finishe d reread of CoS I'm going to say when he was stabbed witht he fang [20:28] <Pellinore> the High Cold Laugh in the MoM when Harry wasn't prepared to resist and about to get AK'd [20:28] <fawkes28> definitely the last task when harry faces voldemort [20:28] <MrMcGonagall> The graveyard is a great nadir. [20:28] <Aislinn> the Chamber - yes, NYB [20:29] <fawkes28> in PS i meant [20:29] <Love4Fawkes> When he sees DD killed [20:29] <cbm> I listened to that scene today in the graveyard and when tied to the tombstone he had no hope and had accepted that he was going to die [20:29] <Shard> Death is often a sign of change [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> nadir = lowest point [20:29] <kadi> poor Harry biggrin [20:29] <Aislinn> the nadir to me in the Chamber is when Tom swirls the letters of his name around, to reveal that he is LV [20:29] <kadi> he's had some rough years [20:29] <Shard> Nadir = Depression? [20:29] * Poet has joined #lounge [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> hi poet [20:29] <kadi> Hi Poet smile [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> when harry was being posessed by Voldemort and was wishing for death [20:29] <Aislinn> he has, kadi! [20:29] <MrMcGonagall> Not exactly, Scott. [20:30] <ltbrave23> i agree chocolate [20:30] <Love4Fawkes> that was a low point chocolate [20:30] <CarpeDiem> I was wondering that as well Shard. When he wasn't speaking with Ron...that was a low point but not because of the fear of death. [20:30] <Aislinn> yes, cbm, that's a great example too [20:30] * mode/#lounge [+o Poet] by Snuffles [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> because he had led everyone into danger for no reason [20:30] <Tanaqui> mmm....being at your nadir could lead to depression [20:30] <DumbleDebbie> nadir "the lowest point in the fortunes of a person or organization" [20:30] <Shard> Depression in the middle of a war COULD lead to death [20:30] <Tanaqui> someone else has pulled out the dictionary! lol [20:30] <kadi> I've never even heard that term! HP makes you smarter biggrin [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha [20:30] <DumbleDebbie> lol, gotta love the Mac widget for that tanaqui wink [20:31] * Shard is extremly happy and amused that Nadir has shown up in Harry Potter [20:31] <SoonerGryffindor> In his darkest moment, the hero must confront the one who holds the ultimate power in his life (atonement with the father). What do you think are the moments in which Harry is tested? [20:31] <kadi> Def w/ Dumbledore in the cave [20:31] <Tanaqui> one was snape's worst memory--seeing his father as arrogant [20:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that question doesn't make sense? [20:31] <DumbleDebbie> all the above mentioned nadir moments [20:31] <Aislinn> Voldy has held tremendous power over his life for years [20:31] <Shard> Quirrlemort, Tom Diarycrux, the Shrieking Shack, Graveyard with Voldmort [20:31] <Poet> When he faced Voldemort in front of the mirror of erised and had to choose what was right [20:31] <cbm> When the wands locked and he saw his parents [20:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> was "atonement with his father" just thrown in there? [20:32] <MrMcGonagall> That's a good one, kadi. [20:32] <SoonerGryffindor> No, that's the name of the term chocolate [20:32] <CarpeDiem> I think when Harry is confronting DD with all his pent up rage at the end of OotP was a dark but important moment. [20:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's so weird [20:32] <MrMcGonagall> Those are all good, shard. [20:32] <futureweasley> well, Harry has come face to face with what James really is...imperfect and flawed. I think that forgiving his father's enemy will, in turn, bring him into atonement [20:33] <SoonerGryffindor> For Book 1, this moment would be when Harry looked into the mirror and he saw the stone instead of something else. In this way, Voldemort "tested" Harry and he passed the test [20:33] <cbm> Will he forgive them or pity them? [20:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think seeing his father in himself, aka, seeing himself cast the patronus, was a huge atonement for him... seeing that his father hadn't really left him [20:33] <Shard> Agreed FW, in fact OOTP was all about Harry learning that his mentors were imperfect [20:33] <fawkes28> harry definitely needs to forgive a lot of people on his journey [20:33] <Pellinore> umbridge in the forest was a minor one then Death Eaters in the room of prophocy then LV by the fountain where he failed before finally overcoming LV by accident mostly. [20:33] <futureweasley> cbm, forgiveness is key [20:33] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, like Snape fawkes [20:33] <fawkes28> exactly debbie [20:33] <harryfreak359> yes forgiveness is the key... [20:33] <futureweasley> he will have to find something to allow the door for forgiveness to swing both ways [20:33] <Pellinore> forgiveness for whom? [20:33] <kadi> Pfftt, forgiveness is over-rated :p [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> At the end of book 5, this moment would have been when Harry was thinking about his love for Sirius and LV could not posess him [20:34] <futureweasley> lol kadi! [20:34] <cbm> I think that some things are unforgivable, just like the curses [20:34] <kadi> You don't have to forgive someone to work with them and get the job done. [20:34] <harryfreak359> to some people, Kadi, i agree with you somewhat there are people that cannot be forgiven [20:34] <Shard> I kind a think you do Kadi [20:34] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think forgiveness needs to go both ways. If you forgive someone it heals you whether they reciprocate or not [20:34] <futureweasley> I agree to a degree, cbm...but Harry is going to have to give in a lot [20:34] <Love4Fawkes> that's very true debbie [20:34] <Tanaqui> depending on how snape turns out, harry may need to even forgive dd... [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> The moment of apotheosis is a period of enlightenment for the hero, when he achieves a higher consciousness and all things become clear. What are some examples from the first six books of the series? [20:34] <Shard> I mean if you dont tollerate them how can you work with them? [20:34] <futureweasley> it's essential to his journey [20:34] <Pellinore> forgiveness for snape, maybe, for LV never.. he's toast :p [20:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that it'd be impossible for harry to forgive some people without making him seem too Godlike [20:35] <Shard> There needs to be a common point or goal [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> when Harry realizes how to get the stone [20:35] <kadi> You can tolerate someone and not forgive them. [20:35] <Love4Fawkes> most of harry's talks with DD [20:35] <fawkes28> i like that idea tanaqui [20:35] <Aislinn> that's an intriguing thought, tanaqui! [20:35] <Poet> At the end of most of the books Harry has apotheosis moments [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> when he looks at the fang and realizes what to do with it [20:35] <Shard> The moment that Harry relaised in Book 6 that no matter what he wanted to defeat Voldmoert [20:35] <Pellinore> 10 seconds after nearly every nadir we just listed ;o [20:35] <kadi> I agree chocolate [20:35] <Love4Fawkes> that's a good one shard [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> lol Pell [20:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Felix Felicis! [20:35] <fawkes28> I think perhaps that going through the trials themselves help harry to become enlightened [20:36] <kadi> When he understood the difference. [20:36] <Aislinn> I think that Harry reaches these points when he has had a chance to think about the conversations that he and DD have about the events of that book [20:36] <NYBookworm> when he goes to cedric and accios the cup [20:36] <Poet> After Harry talks to Luna at the end of Book 5 about Sirius' death [20:36] <Tanaqui> first book, i'd say when he learned he was a wizard [20:36] <cbm> When the wands first locked and he somehow knows what to do, just like in the chamber with the fang, it was instinctive [20:36] <kadi> Why he had to fight vs. wanting to fight. [20:36] <MrMcGonagall> I think there's a very important moment in the series at the end of the OotP when Harry realizes that either he or LV must die. [20:36] <Shard> Each step on his journey has helped him grow, sometimes he realises it and others it's subconcious [20:36] <CarpeDiem> In PoA when he is waiting for his father to produce the patronus but realized it was him the whole time. [20:36] <MrMcGonagall> There are similar moments in HBP, I think. [20:36] <Love4Fawkes> when he understood the whole sirius story [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> during that one exploding snap game with the twins.... [20:36] <AgathaChristy> I think we can forgive anyone we choose to forgive, and we all would want to be gorgive [20:36] <Shard> Agreed Mr. McG and I think he leared to accept that responsiblty in HBP [20:36] <Aislinn> the moment when he thinks about walking into the arena with your head held high is a moment like this [20:36] <AgathaChristy> forgiven if we were really repentive. [20:37] <Shard> Do you think Harry wants to kill LV? even if he doesnt' [20:37] <kadi> I think it would offend some people if they were to be forgiven [20:37] <Aislinn> but I actually think that when we reach a critical point in the next book, he is going to really realize that he doesn't have to just follow the prophecy [20:37] <Poet> When Harry sees the penseive memories about Voldemort's past - he starts to understand who Voldemort is. [20:37] <futureweasley> I love when Jo says that Aislinn... [20:37] <fawkes28> i think a huge turning point on harry's path to enlightenment was accepting the Prophecy [20:37] <kadi> You just can't be reconciled with everyone. [20:37] <Aislinn> he doesn't have to go and try to kill LV in some classic showdown way [20:37] <kadi> right [20:37] <kadi> i agree fawkes [20:37] <AgathaChristy> forgiveness if not of benefit to the one recieving the forgiveness [20:37] <AgathaChristy> it benefits the one who is doing the forgiving. [20:38] <Shard> I love that part as well [20:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah, but it doesn't benefit the helpless readers [20:38] <futureweasley> the big enlightenment moment is yet to come [20:38] <Pellinore> shrug... ok.. i forgive LV but he's to dangerous to leave alive... AK.. game over ;p [20:38] <Shard> Agreed Aislinn but somehow I think LV will meet his demise [20:38] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, fw, the biggest one is yet to come [20:38] <Aislinn> yes, future - he hasn't reached that point yet [20:38] <Poet> Sometimes the information comes from Dumbledore - but the apotheosis in many of the books seems to be when Harry actually internalizes what has happened and what he needs to do next [20:38] <SoonerGryffindor> After the climactic moment of the journey, the hero receives the ultimate boon or prize, which may be a treasure, a relic, or new-found wisdom. What have some of Harry's "prizes" been? [20:38] <Aislinn> yes Poet [20:39] <kadi> his life [20:39] <Shard> Well there was the 1000 galleon prize money [20:39] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi poet! [20:39] <kadi> :D [20:39] <futureweasley> his friends [20:39] <AgathaChristy> Just because you forgive someone does not mean they still need to be punished [20:39] <futureweasley> the family he has come to have [20:39] <Shard> I think getting his family at the end will be his ultimate prize [20:39] <kadi> Be back in a bit! smile [20:39] <Aislinn> peace for the wizarding world [20:39] <Love4Fawkes> facing off with LV and living to tell about it [20:39] <MrMcGonagall> Lots of times it is the new-found wisdom [20:39] <futureweasley> see you Kadi [20:39] <cbm> I think that the true prize will have to wait for the last chapter of DH [20:39] <Aislinn> at least temporarily [20:39] <SoonerGryffindor> I think ultimately the prize wil be his life back [20:39] * kadi has quit [Bye] [20:39] <fawkes28> in PS harry and company winning the House Cup because of what they did under the trap door [20:39] <Pellinore> do the crime do the time [20:39] <Love4Fawkes> the stone its self [20:39] <MrMcGonagall> what he learns in DD's explanations are like completions of levels of the journey [20:39] <Aislinn> true fawkes [20:39] <AgathaChristy> Peace and not living with the Dursley's [20:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> house points, baby... the only thing worth fighting for [20:40] <cbm> In OotP is was everyone finally believing him, but the price was way to high for that prize [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, that'd be great Sooner [20:40] <futureweasley> lol Chocolate...but I respectfully disagree [20:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :-P [20:40] <futureweasley> wink [20:40] <Shard> Niether can live while the other survives, so yesw he will get his life back, ALL of it [20:41] <Poet> Book 3 - Harry received the "prize" of gaining a Godfather - a person who could fill in (in a tiny way) for his parents. [20:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed, poet [20:41] <MrMcGonagall> That's a good one, Poet [20:41] <AgathaChristy> Harry only needs to believe in himself, and also have his family/friends. [20:41] <Aislinn> yes, Poet, that is a good one [20:41] <harryfreak359> yes Poet, that's a good one [20:41] <Love4Fawkes> in HBP knowledge was the prize [20:41] <futureweasley> his own self-respect is a prize, too [20:41] <Aislinn> yes, future [20:41] <Aislinn> in each book, he learns more about himself [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> his resolve in HBP too [20:42] <futureweasley> he can hold his head high, as he has acted in the best way possible in most all pressure occasions [20:42] <Love4Fawkes> and self confidence [20:42] <Tanaqui> a prize? ginny...even though it didn't last long [20:42] <Aislinn> very true [20:42] <cbm> I thought that HBP was an uncompleted journey so the prize is still to come [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> Having finished his quest, the hero must return to the ordinary world. Sometimes he resists, though, wanting to stay in world where he has attained victory. Is this true of Harry? [20:42] <Shard> Ginny is the promise for teh future, a true connection to a familyu [20:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> duh [20:43] <Shard> Harry can't return to teh Dursely's, he'd never stay [20:43] <Aislinn> Harry has had to return to the ordinary world at the end of each book [20:43] <Love4Fawkes> oh yes, and you would want to too if the ordinary world was with the dursleys! [20:43] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he would if he could get away with it [20:43] <Shard> I think Harry will go to the Weasleys [20:43] * Val_Halla has joined #lounge [20:43] <Aislinn> and he always resists - who could blame him? [20:43] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, sooner [20:43] <Poet> Definitely - he usually returns unhappily, though as the books have progressed he returns with his head held high [20:43] <Aislinn> hi val [20:43] <Shard> This one is going to be Different though [20:43] <fawkes28> poor kid [20:43] <Shard> There is nothing for him in he Muggle world [20:43] <Pellinore> it would turn the books into a tragic hero story if Harry turned into a Muggle to "vanquish" LV [20:43] <cbm> I think that Harry Craves what the weasley's have, I see him playing quidditch and having a family [20:43] <CarpeDiem> I don't think at this point Harry knows what "ordinary" is. I think he will embrace it. It will be like a new adventure to him smile [20:43] <Tanaqui> depends on who survives...and what is the 'ordinary world'? could be the normalcy of the wizarding world [20:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that the end of book 5 was the only time we did not see resistance [20:44] <DumbleDebbie> he did look forward to taunting Dudders grin [20:44] <fawkes28> i wouldnt want to go back to the dursley's either [20:44] <MrMcGonagall> To some extent I think that true in Book 4, too, Sooner [20:44] <CarpeDiem> Ah...good point Sooner. [20:44] <Aislinn> he hasn't had a chance at an ordinary life, has he, Carpe? [20:44] <hrh7> Does that refer to the muggle world or to a peaceful wizard world. It usually takes people a while to get used to peace. [20:44] <Love4Fawkes> i think harry just knew there wasn't another option and there was a reason behind it [20:45] <Shard> I dont think he resisted for book 3 either, knowing he could taunt them wih Sirius and book 1 he would taunt them with his ability to ue magic [20:45] <Love4Fawkes> i think he just makes the best of a bad situation shard [20:45] <Shard> I think your right Love4Fawkes [20:45] <Aislinn> if he had his choice, though, he would always opt not to return to the Dursleys, up untilt he end of HBP [20:46] <fawkes28> so going to the dursleys every year is one of his trials [20:46] <CarpeDiem> I think whether we see it or not, there is always a feeling of dread and sorrow when Harry has to return to the Dursleys. Perhaps not because he is no longer a hero but instead because he is loosing contact with his true home and family/ [20:46] <Shard> Very true Fawkes28 [20:46] <cbm> agreed Aislinn, and the only reason he wants to go back now is because of DD [20:46] <MrMcGonagall> True, fawkes [20:46] <Pellinore> wasn't it at the end of 5 that Harry finally was told WHY he has to stay at the Dursleys? Knowing why his mentor and friends were sending him to "hell" took the edge off. [20:46] * Madsdagirl has quit [Bye] [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> do you think harry will be like Frodo at the end of his journey? too spent to really return to reality? [20:47] <hrh7> Once he is 17 he won't have to go back. [20:47] <Aislinn> yes, carpe, I think that is exactly it [20:47] <DumbleDebbie> I hope not chocolate [20:47] <Aislinn> he never sees himself as hero anyway [20:47] <Love4Fawkes> i think so pellinore [20:47] <cbm> No Chocolate [20:47] <Love4Fawkes> i hope not chocolate, i'd be pretty disappointed [20:47] <Shard> Why should Harry be made to leave his family and home?> [20:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think he'll be different.... having killed someone [20:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think it will really affect him [20:48] <futureweasley> Only 13 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. Don't forget to vote in the latest poll for the next WWW chat here http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry1081716 [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> Sometimes the return journey of a hero is fraught with peril, as they face unexpected enemies. Has Harry ever had to face these kinds of obstacles after the climax of the story? [20:48] <cbm> At his lowest points Harry always looks for his friends [20:48] <MrMcGonagall> Definitely in GoF. Impostor Moody grabs hold of him, just when we think Harry has returned to safety. [20:48] <Shard> Yes [20:48] <Pellinore> he may end up dealing with LV only to have Snape or Draco or Lucious take over (the dark arts are ever evolving and changing) [20:48] <Tanaqui> great example mrmcg [20:48] <Shard> Draco and his gang on the train [20:48] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M - excellent example [20:48] <Shard> And the DA curseing them all into slugs [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> that is another excellent one Shard [20:48] <fawkes28> just when you think it is all over "moody" has tricks up his sleeve [20:48] <cbm> Quirrel was unexpected [20:48] <Poet> Harry returns from the cave in Book 6 only to return to the Dark Mark over the castle [20:49] <Val_Halla> In PoA, the events at the Shreiking Shack could be viewd as a climax [20:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> PoA, after waking up from the Dementor attack, only to travel back through time again [20:49] <Aislinn> right Poet [20:49] <MrMcGonagall> good one, chocolate [20:49] <Val_Halla> Then Harry has to do a lot more after that to save Sirius [20:49] <Aislinn> yes, chocolate- after getting the boon of his godfather, it is snatched out of his hands again [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> break is over, I've got to get back to the lectures. take care y'all [20:50] <Shard> By DD [20:50] <CarpeDiem> See ya DD! [20:50] <Aislinn> bye debbie [20:50] <Love4Fawkes> by debbie [20:50] <Pellinore> I wonder if JkR will grace us with her analogies of the series to answer the Hero's Journey and/or 7 deadly sins etc. Take an entire book in and of itself ;p [20:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> in CoS, confronting Lucius... not a big one, but still an obstacle [20:50] * DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [20:50] <Aislinn> that would be fascinating pell [20:51] <Poet> Book 2, Harry destroys the basilisk only to find he is dying from its venom. He has to overcome that and the book as well before he can return to the normal wizard world [20:51] <SoonerGryffindor> Once the hero has crossed back over the threshold and returned safely, he becomes the master of both worlds. In the individual books of the series, how have we seen this demonstrated? [20:51] <MrMcGonagall> He knows how to behave in the Muggle world better than most wizards, but he is definitely a wizard. [20:51] <Love4Fawkes> In PS when he defeats LV and wins the house cup [20:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> master of the house... isn't worth my spit... hums to herself [20:51] <Pellinore> Not until he comes of age... Dudley the Little Piggy... [20:52] <Poet> In Book 2, Harry returns with the power to more easily overcome Dark Arts people such as Lucius - he is easily able to set Dobby free. [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that Harry going to Privet Drive with Ron and Hermione will be a great example of this [20:52] <Pellinore> True Sooner, complete circle [20:52] <Shard> Oh so good a point Sooner, he'll not be pushed around abut the Dursleys anymore [20:52] <harryfreak359> yes I agree with you all.. [20:53] <Pellinore> Sooner did you mean Privet drive or Godrick's Hollow? [20:53] <CarpeDiem> Good point Sooner. At privet drive he's always had to separate his two worlds. Becoming of age and able to no longer hide who he truly is from the Dursleys will be an amazong experience. [20:53] <Aislinn> I think we have to wait for that final chapter, to really see how Harry becomes the master of both worlds [20:53] <MrMcGonagall> We see a real mastery in Harry in PoA. [20:53] <MrMcGonagall> He knows how to manipulate the Muggles [20:54] <fawkes28> i think in PS he does become the master of both worlds because he says that the Dursley's don't know he can use magic so it appears as if he mastered both worlds [20:54] * Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [20:54] <AgathaChristy> It is when Harry see's himself for who and what he is and why. A winner no matter waht [20:54] * Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [20:54] <Shard> He learns to deal with them in GoF45 [20:54] <Pellinore> he was being tricksie ;o [20:55] <SoonerGryffindor> The prophecy has hung over Harry's head since before he was born. Have his encounters with Voldemort scarred him, or have they helped him grow stronger and more self-determined? [20:55] <AgathaChristy> Dumbledore said it, when Harry Looked in the mirror, he was happy with himself [20:55] <Aislinn> both [20:55] <cbm> He has become stronger!! [20:55] <AgathaChristy> all he saw was himself with his family. [20:55] <Tanaqui> i agree with aislinn [20:55] <Shard> SCared him but brown stronger as well [20:55] <Val_Halla> I think stronger [20:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> scarred him.... literally! [20:55] <Pellinore> both [20:55] <SoonerGryffindor> both [20:55] <fawkes28> i think they make him stronger [20:55] <Aislinn> I think he is scarred, but I also think that it has tempered him, like steel [20:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ouch [20:56] <futureweasley> I think there is a bit of both happening...it's an interesting dynamic [20:56] <Poet> I think some of his experiences with Voldemort have scarred him more than others - he was having nightmares after Book 4 [20:56] <CarpeDiem> Exactly Aislinn. Both. And because he is sared he becomes stronger because he faces that fear...that challenge and overcomes it. [20:56] <Love4Fawkes> i think both, but mostly he has become stronger and more self determined [20:56] <MrMcGonagall> Definitely battle wounds, but they have given Harry the resolve he needs to complete the journey. [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree poet [20:56] <AgathaChristy> both [20:56] <cbm> I think that there is much more new strength scarring [20:56] <Shard> I think Harry will not be too scared to want to live, I mean that Harry will be able to have a life after Voldemort [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> unless he dies... [20:56] <cbm> new strength than scarring [20:56] <Poet> In Book 5 we see how Harry is able to use those Book 4 experiences with the Death Eaters to be able to stand up to other evils - such as Umbridge and the Ministry [20:56] <Tanaqui> i mean, he's never going to forget what happened at the graveyeard, but he also is able to function [20:56] <fawkes28> i think it is important that he has received scars from voldemort because it keeps him grounded - if everything went perfectly, he would think defeating him would be too easy [20:56] <Pellinore> noooo choco ;p [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehehe [20:57] <Aislinn> good point fawkes [20:57] <Shard> Exaclty Tanaqui, I dont think he will be broken [20:57] <Love4Fawkes> i agree tanaqui and fawkes. [20:57] <cbm> But scars are permanent, and I don't think that the damage done to harry is permanent [20:57] <Shard> I agree Fawkes, my prob though is some people thing that Harry will be too broken to continue living [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't know about you guys, but If I was harry I'd be scared of Inferi for the rest of my life [20:57] <AgathaChristy> Harry will live, I believe! [20:57] <Shard> I agree Chocoi but that doesn't preclude him from living [20:57] <Aislinn> yes, chocolate - they were seriously nightmarish [20:58] <harryfreak359> ahhh, guys I gotta get to the homework...see ya guys next time! [20:58] <AgathaChristy> I would feel sorry for Inferi, once I understood who and what they are. [20:58] <Love4Fawkes> bye harry freak [20:58] <Poet> I like that point fawkes - we see how Harry's scarring experiences help temper him and keep him from getting heady about being a leader of others. He's had fame for terrible reasons, and doesn't let fame go to his head. [20:58] <fawkes28> but that is what is great about harry - he bounces back even though he is a little more scarred each time [20:58] <Aislinn> bye harryfreak [20:58] <harryfreak359> bye everyone smile [20:58] <Love4Fawkes> yes it is fawkes [20:58] * harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [20:59] <Aislinn> This has been such a fun chat! [20:59] <SoonerGryffindor> Great chat guys! Thanks so much for all of your great input on this toic [20:59] <Poet> woohoo - great chat [20:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> okay guys, Idol time [20:59] <CarpeDiem> Great point, Poet. It makes him a better leader because of that. Now if he were to only recognixe that smile [20:59] <Aislinn> Thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone [20:59] <Tanaqui> i'd say that bouncing sometimes take a little longer than others [20:59] <Shard> Yaaaaaaa! [20:59] <Val_Halla> Bye guys, 'til next time! [20:59] <futureweasley> what a good chat tonight guys! [20:59] <futureweasley> thanks again! [20:59] <cbm> good night!! ((((())))) [20:59] * Val_Halla left #lounge [] [20:59] <fawkes28> thanks for coming smile [20:59] <Tanaqui> this was a great chat [20:59] <AgathaChristy> Bye Val_Halla [20:59] *** Shard left #lounge [] [20:59] * Aislinn hugs everyone [20:59] <Love4Fawkes> its been a great chat. i love it! [20:59] * cbm has quit [Bye] [20:59] * Tanaqui left #lounge [] [20:59] <Pellinore> Was fun, thanks for hosting it mods smile [20:59] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [21:00] <Poet> Bye CarpeDiem smile [21:00] * ltbrave23 has quit [Bye] [21:00] * Pellinore has quit [Bye] [21:00] <Love4Fawkes> hugs for everyone smile [21:00] <CarpeDiem> Bye Poet! smile [21:00] * Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [21:00] <CarpeDiem> G'night all! [21:00] <AgathaChristy> by everyone, I am off , been a real experience. [21:00] <hrh7> Thanks [21:00] * AgathaChristy left #lounge [] [21:00] * CarpeDiem has quit [Bye] This post has been edited by futureweasley: Jan 31 2007, 09:28 PM

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