WWW Corner Booth Transcript: Feb 14, 2007, Sacrificial Love in Harry Potter |
 Feb 14 2007, 10:20 PM
Post
#1
|
|
She Who Channels Rita Skeeter  Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner   |
Tonight's Moderators were: Aislinn, Expelliarmas, Fawkes28, futureweasley and SoonerGryffindor
[18:56] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [18:58] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [18:59] *** Snuffles changed the topic to: Sacrificial Love (futureweasley) [18:59] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:00] <futureweasley> Hello ladies...Happy Valentine's Day! [19:00] <fawkes28> you too hug [19:00] <Aislinn> Happy Valentine's Day to you! [19:01] *** beccabear747 has joined #lounge [19:01] <futureweasley> hi becca [19:02] <beccabear747> hi [19:02] *** JMlovesHP has joined #lounge [19:03] <futureweasley> how's your Valentine's Day going? [19:03] <futureweasley> hi JMlovesHP [19:03] <beccabear747> good yours? [19:03] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [19:03] <fawkes28> hi nymph [19:03] <futureweasley> hey nymph [19:03] <nympheart> hi [19:03] <beccabear747> hey nymph [19:03] <futureweasley> yes, I'm having a good one so far [19:03] <beccabear747> hello everyone [19:03] <beccabear747> and heppy Valentines Day [19:03] <JMlovesHP> hey everyone [19:03] <beccabear747> happy* [19:03] *** hpfan1970 has joined #lounge [19:03] <JMlovesHP> happy v day [19:03] <futureweasley> hi hpfan [19:03] <beccabear747> hey hpfan [19:03] <nympheart> hi hpfan [19:03] <hpfan1970> hi everybody [19:04] <JMlovesHP> anyone get anything goo...i only cot cards from family [19:04] <beccabear747> i got loooots of candy [19:04] <futureweasley> our topic is MOST fitting tonight! Sacrificial Love! [19:04] <nympheart> I got a piece of chocolate [19:04] <hpfan1970> i got a nice big box of chocolate...yummmmy [19:04] <beccabear747> and a couple of date requests [19:04] <hpfan1970> sacrificial love...i like that [19:04] <beccabear747> that i turned down for corner booth [19:04] <fawkes28> woo hoo for our topic!!! [19:04] <beccabear747> lol si! [19:04] <nympheart> lucky you becca [19:04] <futureweasley> good for you becca! [19:04] <JMlovesHP> cool you going to say yess to any [19:05] * nympheart has been single for a looooong time [19:05] <beccabear747> lol [19:05] <beccabear747> becca is playing the field [19:05] <beccabear747> lol [19:05] <JMlovesHP> poor nymphheart...me too [19:05] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:05] <futureweasley> you're young...good to keep those options open [19:05] <beccabear747> us lonely HP fans [19:05] <beccabear747> sad [19:05] <futureweasley> wink [19:05] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:05] <hpfan1970> well,i'm married,so romance went out the window a long time ago LOL [19:05] <beccabear747> PUNKY! [19:06] <beccabear747> lol hpfan [19:06] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:06] <nympheart> that's true, but there's college next year smile [19:06] <futureweasley> yay, it's my lifeline!! My brewster is in the HOUSE!! [19:06] <hpfan1970> sad but true [19:06] <Punky> Hey guys! [19:06] <beccabear747> lol [19:06] <nympheart> hi punky! [19:06] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [19:06] <hpfan1970> punky brewster...that's cute lol,i like it [19:06] <Aislinn> so is anyone else be socked by the weather today? [19:06] <fawkes28> welcome sooner [19:06] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [19:06] <SoonerGryffindor> hey guys [19:06] <fawkes28> me me me [19:06] * nympheart loves the weather [19:06] <fawkes28> hi expie [19:06] <Expelliarmas> heya peeps [19:06] <futureweasley> I have lots of snow [19:07] <JMlovesHP> me [19:07] <nympheart> fourth snow day in two weeks [19:07] <futureweasley> Hi Sooner and Expie! [19:07] <beccabear747> i got a couple flurries today [19:07] <JMlovesHP> lots of ice [19:07] <Punky> Share the snow [19:07] <SoonerGryffindor> it is snowing here now as well [19:07] <hpfan1970> buried in snow [19:07] <fawkes28> i have snow and ice and no work today - woo hoo [19:07] *** cbm has joined #lounge [19:07] <cbm> Hi everyone! [19:07] <JMlovesHP> hey cbm [19:07] <futureweasley> hi cbm...Happy Valentines Day [19:07] <nympheart> hi cbm [19:07] <fawkes28> hi cbm [19:07] <JMlovesHP> question [19:07] <Aislinn> hi all [19:07] *** SoonerGryffindor has quit [Bye] [19:08] <JMlovesHP> how old should you be to start dating?? [19:08] <beccabear747> 13 [19:08] <JMlovesHP> just curious [19:08] <Aislinn> we've got at least 18 inches of snow here, and it's still coming down [19:08] <futureweasley> now there's a tricky question [19:08] <JMlovesHP> why 13 [19:08] <nympheart> I was 12 i think [19:08] <hpfan1970> hmm...how about 15? like in the 9th grade at least? [19:08] <futureweasley> I think that 15 is appropriate [19:08] <nympheart> but it wasn't a "real" relationship [19:08] <cbm> 3 inches here with ice on top [19:08] * Punky is jealous of the snow [19:08] <JMlovesHP> ohh [19:08] <Expelliarmas> *snow*snort*snow* [19:08] <futureweasley> but, I was 13 as a freshman in high school...so I started dating at 13 [19:08] <fawkes28> jealous? [19:08] <fawkes28> i can give you some [19:08] <beccabear747> i had my first "boyfriend" at 3 [19:08] <hpfan1970> punky,you can have all my snow here from NY...lol [19:08] <Aislinn> you can come shovel mine punky laugh [19:09] <cbm> I am tired and sore from shoveling [19:09] <Punky> I will I will! [19:09] <nympheart> we've got 8" of snow and 1 1/2 of ice [19:09] <hpfan1970> we're moving to FL next year to get away from the cold [19:09] <beccabear747> i live in the south so no snow here [19:09] <JMlovesHP> freshman year for me i was 14 [19:09] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [19:09] <futureweasley> I'm in Michigan...it's cold and snowy here [19:09] <fawkes28> expie, what is the temperature? [19:10] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [19:10] <fawkes28> hi debbie [19:10] <nympheart> hi debbie [19:10] <JMlovesHP> hey debie [19:10] <Aislinn> hey debbie [19:10] <futureweasley> hiya Debbie [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> hello debbie [19:10] <DumbleDebbie> hey smile [19:10] <futureweasley> it's so cold in my house, I'm actually chattering... [19:10] <JMlovesHP> hows v day for you debbie? [19:10] <futureweasley> this stinks [19:10] <DumbleDebbie> blech [19:10] <beccabear747> lol [19:10] <nympheart> aww [19:10] <Expelliarmas> 84 degrees and lovely [19:10] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:11] <SoonerGryffindor> grab a blanket future [19:11] <Expelliarmas> thanks for asking [19:11] <DumbleDebbie> haven't felt so hot this week [19:11] <Aislinn> single digits here future, and it's supposed to start getting windy tonight - I'm in the same boat [19:11] <beccabear747> V Day is full of chocoalte therefore wonderful [19:11] <fawkes28> of course wink [19:11] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, we're getting freezing rain here on top of several inches of snow. lovely [19:11] <SoonerGryffindor> sounds like Oklahoma now Debbie laugh [19:11] <nympheart> yup same story here debbie [19:11] <cbm> We are now having 40mph gusts, it just started a few hours ago [19:11] <beccabear747> i know punky loves the chocolate [19:11] <fawkes28> yup same here, debbie [19:11] <Aislinn> we didn't get the freezing rain, just snow, snow, and more snow [19:11] <hpfan1970> shoot,dinner's ready,hopefully i can check back w/you guys in a little bit [19:11] <fawkes28> i had much fun on my day off [19:11] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, I saw on the weather map it looked like snow and ice in OKC, again [19:12] *** Expelliarmas has quit [Bye] [19:12] <nympheart> see ya hpfan [19:12] <beccabear747> bye hpfan [19:12] <hpfan1970> see ya bye bye [19:12] <cbm> I had not then freezing rain on top and it made the snow very heavy [19:12] *** hpfan1970 has quit [Bye] [19:12] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, rain soaking throught the snow makes such a mess [19:12] <cbm> i had snow [19:12] <beccabear747> we havn't had snow since '93 [19:12] <JMlovesHP> really [19:12] <JMlovesHP> sad [19:12] <beccabear747> well good snow anyway [19:12] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:12] <beccabear747> a little sleet here and tehre [19:13] <JMlovesHP> same here [19:13] <DumbleDebbie> they didn't have school here either, which is annoying b/c the firehouse horn goes off at 6:30 am to let peole know there is no school. I have no kids, I'd rather be sleeping at 6:30am thankyouverymuch [19:13] <beccabear747> lol [19:13] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:13] <futureweasley> lol, gotta love small towns [19:13] <nympheart> debbie, that's evil! [19:13] <DumbleDebbie> and then, just in case you missed it, they do it AGAIN at 7 am [19:13] <beccabear747> we just hear it on the radio [19:13] <DumbleDebbie> yes, nymph, I agree [19:13] <DumbleDebbie> what's a radio? wink [19:13] <JMlovesHP> i have to watch the news [19:13] <beccabear747> lol [19:14] <cbm> It is going to be very cold tonight, so anything that is not shoveled is going to be solid [19:14] *** jade_and_diamond_fire has joined #lounge [19:14] <DumbleDebbie> is that something you put in your outhouse? [19:14] <nympheart> hi jade [19:14] <DumbleDebbie> hi jade [19:14] <nympheart> lol debbie [19:14] <beccabear747> hi jade [19:14] <beccabear747> lol debbie [19:14] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, that'll be messy cbm [19:14] <JMlovesHP> hi jade [19:14] <Aislinn> radio and tv announcements, starting last night, was the way we got the notice [19:14] <jade_and_diamond_fire> hi everyone! hope you're feeling better than i am, not that that would be hard... [19:14] <beccabear747> aww sorry jade [19:14] <Aislinn> all of the schools were closed, and the 5 counties around me are in a state of emergency [19:14] <JMlovesHP> whats wrong or up [19:15] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, well Bar Harbor likes to wake everyone early to let them know that if they teach, they can sleep in (go figure) [19:15] <Aislinn> sorry you're not feeling well jade [19:15] <fawkes28> i would love for no school (work) tomorrow too [19:15] <futureweasley> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:15] <futureweasley> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:15] <futureweasley> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:15] <futureweasley> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:16] <futureweasley> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [19:16] <Aislinn> Love is perhaps the most powerful magic in the Harry Potter series. Magic can't buy love. It also can't be forced, but must be given freely. Love often best expresses itself in the way that characters within the series sacrifice for others. They sacrifice their pride, their status in society, money, fame, and sometimes even their life. This evening we will be talking about a very fitting topic: Sacrificial Love. [19:16] <Aislinn> What are some examples in Book 5 of Dumbledore sacrificing for Harry? What are some examples in that book of him sacrificing for the other teachers and students? [19:16] *** SMWallis has joined #lounge [19:16] <nympheart> he sacrificed his reputation [19:17] <JMlovesHP> he sacraficed his knowledge of everything going on with harry and lv [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> He sacrifed for Draco [19:17] *** SMWallis has quit [Bye] [19:17] <cbm> agreed nympheart, he stood by him and suffered the consequences, but at the same time he would not look him in the eye [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> nevermind [19:18] <DumbleDebbie> lol [19:18] <futureweasley> yes Nymph...when he left Hogwarts under the reign of Delores Umbridge...he did that so he could go to work and find out more information about LV [19:18] <Aislinn> Feel free to give examples that are not limited to book 5 [19:18] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i'm sure he didn't love Umbridge, but he did what he had to for his greates love, Hogwarts [19:18] <DumbleDebbie> He also sacrificed a closer relationship with Harry to protect him from attack by Voldy [19:19] <futureweasley> LV left Harry on the Dursley's doorstep to begin with...I think that in itself was a sacrific [19:19] <JMlovesHP> true debbie i like that thought [19:19] <Punky> agreed Debbie, book 5 shows a lot of his derminiation with that [19:19] <nympheart> DD lost a million titles for Harry when he stuck with him in OotP, and he did something similar for Remus [19:19] <beccabear747> maybe a more physical sacrifice? his hand? [19:19] <jade_and_diamond_fire> definitely, future [19:19] <DumbleDebbie> true future [19:19] <jade_and_diamond_fire> the physical sacrifice is an interesting idea, very traditional of magic/religion [19:19] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, the sacrifice really comes to a climax in HBP, ending with the ulitmate one as Sooner said [19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> yes [19:20] <JMlovesHP> yeah [19:20] <nympheart> DD sacrificed his life later in HBP, whether he meant to or not [19:20] <DumbleDebbie> and I agree, he did save Draco from himself with that final conversation [19:20] <cbm> On top the tower, he protected harry when he may of lived with harry's help [19:20] <fawkes28> i agree [19:20] *** beccabear747 has quit [Bye] [19:20] <DumbleDebbie> he kept him from crossing the line into murder [19:20] <futureweasley> yes cbm...that's totally true [19:20] <Aislinn> Even though Dumbledore's life was taken from him at the end of Book 6, what do the events in the cave and then on the tower tell about his love for Harry? What do they show about his love for others - like Draco? [19:20] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, i think he realized that Harry and Draco's fates were so much more important than his own [19:21] <futureweasley> cutting himself to get in the door [19:21] <DumbleDebbie> I think DD gave his life more than it was taken [19:21] <futureweasley> "your blood is more valuable than mine" [19:21] <nympheart> yes future [19:21] <DumbleDebbie> and his love for Harry and Draco is enormous [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> Its hard to sum up in a few words [19:21] <Aislinn> yes, future [19:21] <fawkes28> dumbledore's love for harry and draco is unconditional [19:21] <nympheart> and of course drinking the potion rather than having Harry do it [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> DD had an enormous capacity for love [19:21] <Aislinn> he definitely was putting others ahead of himself throughout this book [19:22] <JMlovesHP> yeah he was [19:22] <DumbleDebbie> he really showed the kind of love where he would rather be injured or even die himself than have that happen to someone else [19:22] <futureweasley> I think that Dumbledore is the one who will stand and face the firing squad before letting someone he loves suffer needlessly or alone [19:22] *** SMWallis has joined #lounge [19:23] <JMlovesHP> dd would do anything to save his students [19:23] <cbm> but at the same time in book 5, he would not look Harry in the eye and avoided contact with him. It almost seems like he becomes a different person in HBP [19:23] <JMlovesHP> true [19:23] <DumbleDebbie> it's amazing enough when given to Harry, who loves him in return, but more amazine when given to Draco, who hates DD and always has [19:23] <nympheart> I agree cbm, I think DD was trying to correct his errors [19:23] <JMlovesHP> hi smwwallis [19:23] <SMWallis> Hello! [19:23] <nympheart> hi SMW [19:23] <cbm> I think that Dumbledore could have kept the angry Harry of book 5 from being so angry [19:24] <DumbleDebbie> but he wouldn't look Harry in the eye b/c he was trying to protect him from invasion by Voldemoret [19:24] <Aislinn> I think he really was trying to protect Harry in book 5 [19:24] <nympheart> absolutely cbm [19:24] <DumbleDebbie> yes Aislinn [19:24] <DumbleDebbie> me too [19:24] <nympheart> DD tried and failed, his logic there was a bit naieve [19:24] <Aislinn> as he said at the beginning of 6, LV was no longer invading Harry's mind so it was safer for them to interact [19:24] <DumbleDebbie> and as hard as it was on Harry it was probably equally as hard on DD (or harder) [19:24] <cbm> But at the end he also admits his mistake and says that he should have been the one to teach him occumlency [19:25] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes, i don't think has much to do with love, more with necessity [19:25] <cbm> I agree about it being hard DD [19:25] <Aislinn> true cbm, but I'm not sure that would have worked [19:25] <JMlovesHP> why didn't he in the first place [19:25] <Aislinn> as we saw, LV did look through Harry's eyes and react when their eyes met [19:25] <DumbleDebbie> didn't he what JM? [19:25] <JMlovesHP> he obviously trusted snape a lot to hand him the job of teaching [19:25] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, it would have been really bad if Voldemort had been able to access Dumbledore's mind [19:25] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, and it was pretty violent Aislinn [19:26] <Aislinn> yes it was debbie [19:26] <Aislinn> Are there other examples in the books of Dumbledore's continual love and sacrifice for those around him? [19:26] <jade_and_diamond_fire> Snape is possibly the best occlumens in the world.. [19:26] <JMlovesHP> (teach harry occlumency) debbie [19:26] <cbm> But snape is a horrible teacher when it comes to harry [19:26] <DumbleDebbie> the fact that he chose to be headmaster because he loved teh school and the students [19:26] <futureweasley> in the ministry...when he made Harry stand back while facing Dumbledore [19:26] <DumbleDebbie> he's brilliant, he could have had any career he wanted [19:27] <futureweasley> if Fawkes hadn't been there, DD could have taken an AK to the face [19:27] <JMlovesHP> definitely [19:27] <nympheart> destroying the Stone [19:27] <DumbleDebbie> ouch [19:27] <Aislinn> I think that his actions are an agape type of love for the wizarding world as a whole [19:27] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that his ability to forgive easily and believe the best of people is an example [19:27] <SMWallis> I think you are putting a little too much faith in Fawkes. [19:27] *** stewiegryf has joined #lounge [19:27] <SMWallis> I think Fawkes was there because DD willed it to be and willed him to save him. [19:27] <SoonerGryffindor> hello stewie [19:27] <nympheart> hi stewie [19:28] <Aislinn> and I think that the way he led the school for so long was an expression of love [19:28] <stewiegryf> hey everyone! [19:28] <JMlovesHP> hi stewie [19:28] <DumbleDebbie> I think also he carried the burden of the Prophecy for years and withheld it from Harry to protect him from the full weight of it until he was older [19:28] <DumbleDebbie> hi stewie [19:28] <fawkes28> i think that Fawkes' sacrifices parallels Dumbledore's sacrifices [19:28] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes, that is a big burden to carry, i can't even keep a regular secret [19:28] * cbm has to leave for a few moments, i will return [19:28] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, Fawkes, they are very similar in personality [19:28] <nympheart> see ya cbm [19:28] <DumbleDebbie> lol jade [19:29] <SMWallis> So do you think DD will come back? [19:29] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, Fawkes and Dumbledore are two "birds of a feather" (yeah, that was cheesy) [19:29] <SMWallis> If there is a parallel? [19:29] <DumbleDebbie> so much so (fawkes and DD) that in CoS I wondered if the phoenix in the chamber *was* DD [19:29] <SMWallis> Fawkes growes old dies, burns, and is reborn. [19:29] <JMlovesHP> i think that maybe dd has a horcrux of his own [19:29] <DumbleDebbie> lol jade [19:29] <DumbleDebbie> no way JM [19:29] <stewiegryf> Well, Fawkes left at the end of HBP and hasn't returned either. [19:29] <nympheart> DD would never make a Horcrux [19:29] <SMWallis> I don't think DD would want that type of half-life [19:29] <DumbleDebbie> DD wouldn't do something so vile [19:30] <Aislinn> How has Harry's parents' sacrifice influenced Harry's choices so far in his life? [19:30] <JMlovesHP> unless it was part of his plan [19:30] <JMlovesHP> DDs plan [19:30] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, i don't think Dumbledore would endorse that kind of dark magic, he would want to trust that Harry could succeed without him [19:30] <JMlovesHP> true [19:30] <fawkes28> they have had a tremendous impact on his life [19:30] <nympheart> they influenced him enough for him to say he wouldn't join LV in SS [19:30] <DumbleDebbie> well, first of all it gave him a life in which to make choices [19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that its not so much that, but the fact that Harry has inherited empathy from his parents [19:30] <Aislinn> I think that their sacrifice was a powerful lesson for Harry in terms of values [19:30] <Punky> the knowledge of their sacrifice seems to have shaped his goals [19:30] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, its certainly kept him from even considering dark magic [19:31] <DumbleDebbie> yes Sooner, Lilly particuarly [19:31] * DumbleDebbie thinks her 'l's are jumping around [19:31] <fawkes28> Harry grew up the way he did because of his parents' sacrifice - they loved him so much that they sacrificed their lives [19:31] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:31] <DumbleDebbie> hi choco [19:31] <nympheart> It's mainly because of them that Harry wants to see LV dead, as well as be the one to do it [19:31] <SMWallis> I don't think he so much as inherited empathy, but he was never shown any growing up and he can't imagine treating anyone else that way. [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> Well, I think that it might make him feel guilty sometimes when he puts his life in danger] [19:31] <nympheart> hi chocolate [19:31] <Aislinn> hi chocolate [19:31] <JMlovesHP> their sacrafices have helped harry to love his family a little bit more [19:31] <futureweasley> hi Chocolate! [19:31] <DumbleDebbie> it's a huge lesson, by example, of love [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey all smile a bit late tonight [19:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> what's the topic, futureweasley? [19:32] <nympheart> yes, JM, but not just his family, everyone [19:32] <futureweasley> Sacrificial Love [19:32] <JMlovesHP> yeah your right [19:32] <futureweasley> :heart: [19:32] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehe [19:32] <nympheart> we're talking about how Harry's parents deaths influenced him [19:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thanks nymph smile [19:33] <nympheart> any time [19:33] <Aislinn> I think that their sacrifice taught Harry to value selfless acts towards others [19:33] <fawkes28> i agree, aislinn [19:33] <Aislinn> and we see him acting in that way all the time [19:33] <JMlovesHP> i agree [19:33] <DumbleDebbie> also that sacrifice is sometimes necessary to defeat evil [19:33] <futureweasley> his parents sacrifice was a definite defining moment in his life [19:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think their deaths allowed him to idealize them... perhaps he'll have a warped view of sacrifice? [19:33] <jade_and_diamond_fire> it seems to make him value his own life more, as Lupin pointed out in PoA, he should be careless with it if his parents died to protect him [19:34] <JMlovesHP> the sacrafices als o taught harry a part of old magic [19:34] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, Harry playing the hero is a sort of form of martyrdom, kind of like his parents [19:34] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, JM, I think that'll come into play again in DH [19:34] <futureweasley> yes jade, that is true as well [19:34] <nympheart> I don't think a warped view of sacrifice, so much as a warped view of his parents (remembering SWM) [19:34] <stewiegryf> I agree nympheart [19:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah, nymph [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's where i got the ida [19:35] *** Tanaqui has joined #lounge [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> idea [19:35] <futureweasley> hi Tanaqui [19:35] <fawkes28> hi tanaqui [19:35] <nympheart> hi tanaqui [19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> hi tanaqui [19:35] <DumbleDebbie> hi tanaqui [19:35] <JMlovesHP> hey tanaqui [19:35] <Tanaqui> greetings! [19:35] <stewiegryf> hey tanaqui [19:35] <jade_and_diamond_fire> hi tanaqui! [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey tanaqui!!!! [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [19:35] <Aislinn> James and Sirius were very popular when they were in school, while Snape seemed to be the opposite. Why was Lily, at age 15 or so, willing to sacrifice possible popularity to stand up for someone that no one else liked? What does this show about her character? [19:35] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:35] <DumbleDebbie> she rocks! [19:35] <Tanaqui> makes me wish i were lily's friend [19:35] <SMWallis> I am not sure that he really got his empathy and compasion from his parent's. He chose not to be friends with Malfoy even before he kne w the whole extent of what his parents did. [19:35] <JMlovesHP> she is a loving person [19:35] <nympheart> girls mature faster than boys [19:36] <DumbleDebbie> I think that's the empathy mentioned earlier [19:36] <JMlovesHP> she doesnt care what anyone thinks of her [19:36] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i think she felt bad because Snape liked her and she didn't like him [19:36] <Aislinn> I think it shows a lot of confidence [19:36] <Tanaqui> is it a maturity issue, though? [19:36] <Aislinn> and also a lot of empathy [19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I think she was confident enough within her self that she did not care [19:36] <cbm> Im back, whe was doing what was right [19:36] <stewiegryf> She's got loads of "moral fiber" [19:36] <futureweasley> it shows that she was willing to put her reputition on the line for her sister's boyfriend [19:36] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, very mature compared to the boys in that scene [19:36] <nympheart> comparing Lily to James, I'd say maturity played its role [19:36] <DumbleDebbie> LOL FW!!! [19:36] <fawkes28> She cares about the "underdog" [19:36] <cbm> I also think she was doing to put james in his place [19:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehehehe [19:37] <JMlovesHP> yeah [19:37] <cbm> good one FW [19:37] * DumbleDebbie checks FW for a fever wink [19:37] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, my cat is more mature than the boys in that scene [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i'd say that she liked james at that point, but was really trying to discourage his less admirable qualities? [19:37] <DumbleDebbie> maybe your cat is an animagus jade [19:37] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> just now read future's comment [19:37] <stewiegryf> Good point cbm. It was standing up to james as well as defending an underdog [19:37] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, he does walk around on his hind legs a lot, its very cute smile [19:37] <DumbleDebbie> biggrin Sooner [19:38] <DumbleDebbie> lol jade [19:38] *** SMWallis has quit [Bye] [19:38] <DumbleDebbie> brb [19:38] * stewiegryf wonders if future thinks Dudley's worst memory is finding out Snape is his daddy [19:38] <cbm> lol [19:38] <JMlovesHP> lol [19:38] * nympheart puts her hands on her head and screams [19:38] <jade_and_diamond_fire> ay! scary thought indeed! [19:39] <Tanaqui> okay, so she's mature, compassionate and must have had good upbringing...i also wonder if she has always been the girl that everyone liked [19:39] <futureweasley> Holy schmoly stewie...you've been reading my diary, haven't you?! [19:39] <fawkes28> LOL [19:39] <Aislinn> wow - what a horrible thought! [19:39] <nympheart> I think she was tanqui [19:39] <SoonerGryffindor> *shudder* [19:39] <stewiegryf> Scary thought indeed. [19:39] <Aislinn> yes, tanaqui - I think she probably was [19:39] <stewiegryf> Tanaqui, I got the impression she was indeed always liked, by peers and teachers [19:39] <nympheart> didn't Jo say she was popular? [19:40] <fawkes28> it shows how strong of a woman she is [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> slug did? [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe [19:40] <Tanaqui> well, but popular is different from everyone liking you [19:40] <nympheart> true [19:40] <jade_and_diamond_fire> certainly, Tanaqui [19:40] <cbm> Jo said it in an interview if I remember correctly [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true - not everyone liked her... petunia would have hated that "likeable" aspect of Lily's personality [19:40] <jade_and_diamond_fire> Slughorn's impressions of her were certainly shining [19:41] <jade_and_diamond_fire> poor Petunia, she did have a lot to be jealous of [19:41] <DumbleDebbie> lol fw, oiy [19:41] <Tanaqui> and *that's* interesting to think about--i dunno if petunia would have done the same! [19:41] <JMlovesHP> yep jade she did [19:41] <Aislinn> Lily was given a choice by Voldemort - to save herself or to basically to try and save her son. She chose to sacrifice and give up her life. For Merope Gaunt, on the other hand, it would have been a sacrifice on her part to keep living - something she chose not to do. Neither woman knew the outcome of their decision to sacrifice (or not) out of love for their child. What are some of the lessons these two different cases teach us? [19:41] <cbm> Petunia would have been cheering them on, if it was someone she did not like [19:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i want to see a flaw in her... james isn't as idealized as he used to be, but Lily is still up there [19:42] <Tanaqui> merope lost hope--she didn't see the point of living even for her baby... [19:42] <nympheart> me too chocolate, that's why I think it was Lily who cheated off of Snape, rather than the other way around [19:42] <Tanaqui> perhaps she suffered depression and should have gotten more serious help...from who, i'm not sure, as she was quite alone much of her life [19:42] <nympheart> Merope was being a bit selfish, while Lily was selfless [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Lily and Merope are awesome in juxtaposition... they're so different [19:43] <DumbleDebbie> the absence of love has dire consequences [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> I think a lot of it might have to do with their upbrinings [19:43] <cbm> Lily would have been happy to live a long life with her child, but was willing to sacrifice it for harry, [19:43] <Aislinn> that's a good point sooner [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that we can safely assume that the Evans household had love in it [19:44] *** hrh7 has joined #lounge [19:44] <DumbleDebbie> at least more than the Gaunt one [19:44] <fawkes28> I think it had to do with genes [19:44] <nympheart> yes, sooner, but Petunia drew a short stick [19:44] <hrh7> Hi [19:44] <SoonerGryffindor> that too fawkes [19:44] <JMlovesHP> hey hrh7 [19:44] <futureweasley> Merope's family showed her no love....Lily's family loved and respected her...I agree Sooner...sometimes the clothes are what makes the man [19:44] <DumbleDebbie> Tom's orphanage had more love than the Gaunt household [19:44] <Aislinn> lily had more innate confidence and love from her upbringing, while merope was beaten down throughout her lie [19:44] <stewiegryf> True Sooner. It shows that a lack of love not only affects the children, but their children and so on... [19:44] <fawkes28> Merope was not able to experience the same type of love that Lily was able to [19:45] <fawkes28> Lily was able to experience romantic love while Merope experienced obsessive love [19:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> heros are made at birth... or somewhere around there (not to bring up the hero's journey), but villians are made young, too. every effective villian has good motivation for being villianous [19:45] <nympheart> right fawkes, which is probably why she became so obsessed with Tom that she didn't care so much about her son [19:45] <Tanaqui> hmmm....merope and petunia have more in common than one might think... [19:45] <cbm> I have to do finish dinner, good night [19:45] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [19:45] <Aislinn> merope was probably clinically depressed at the time she showed up on the doorstep of the orphanage - she may have see no other alternatives open to her [19:45] <JMlovesHP> good night cbm [19:45] <fawkes28> yes, she cared more about her love for Tom Sr. than for her son [19:46] <Tanaqui> exactly aislinn [19:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, don't we know that depression is sort of explained in the wizarding world as dementors being present? [19:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I think she was so messed up by her life, that she had no good judgement [19:46] <nympheart> there's natural depression too chocolate [19:46] <Aislinn> true, sooner - the choices she made were not good ones [19:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe voldemort is part dementor! [19:46] <stewiegryf> I agree sooner. [19:46] <jade_and_diamond_fire> a very good conclusion, Sooner [19:46] <Tanaqui> when did dementors show up? were they around for merope's time? [19:47] <JMlovesHP> i doubt it chocolate [19:47] <DumbleDebbie> she really didn't have any good role models for good decision making, did she? [19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> merope breathed in their "breeding" vapors.... [19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> you heard it first here [19:47] <Aislinn> probably, but I think someone can be depressed without dementors around [19:47] <DumbleDebbie> lol choco [19:47] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i don't think Merope would have needed dementor around to be in such bad shape [19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i guess you're right jade sad [19:47] <jade_and_diamond_fire> okay, well, apparently we're thinking alike Aislinn [19:47] <nympheart> I agree, jade, especially when you look at her father [19:47] <Aislinn> smile [19:48] <Aislinn> Dumbledore told Harry that Merope wasn't a strong person. What type of strength does it take to sacrifice oneself? [19:48] <nympheart> courage [19:48] <Tanaqui> assurance that what you're doing is for the right cause [19:48] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well some of it is natural, and, but a lot of it comes from values, be they taught or learned [19:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe a person needs to be able to see the value of their own life - which merope didn't see at ALL [19:48] <Aislinn> yes, nymph - I do think it takes courage [19:48] <DumbleDebbie> moral strength [19:49] <Aislinn> and a belief in something bigger than yourself [19:49] <stewiegryf> A strength to do what is right and not what is easy [19:49] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes, Stewie!!!!!!!!!! [19:49] <nympheart> agreed, aislinn [19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> value of life seems to be a theme... lily was strong in character and produced some strong magic as a result of her death. [19:50] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it does take strength, but I do not see what Merope did as a sacrifice [19:50] <fawkes28> I think an inner strength was missing from her [19:50] <DumbleDebbie> no, I think we were talking of people who sacrifice themselves for others as strong right? [19:50] <nympheart> nor do I, sooner. Merope gave up. [19:50] <stewiegryf> Not at all sooner. She did what was easy by giving up. [19:50] <DumbleDebbie> not Merope [19:51] <Tanaqui> sacrifice = giving up selflessly [19:51] <fawkes28> I think her problems just took over her life [19:51] <DumbleDebbie> really, Merope was selfish [19:51] <JMlovesHP> i agree fawkes [19:51] <fawkes28> She saw it as the easy way out [19:51] <Aislinn> right debbie [19:51] <DumbleDebbie> she couldn't seem to think of her son and just wallowed in her own self pity [19:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> do you think that Merope could have produced some ancient-magic herself? some kind of antithesis to lily's sacrifice? like, her death created a kind of void in Voldemort? [19:52] <fawkes28> she made poor choices and felt like there was no taking them back [19:52] <jade_and_diamond_fire> wow, great idea chocolate [19:52] <JMlovesHP> maybe chocolate [19:52] <fawkes28> and she was sick - she was still obsessed with tom sr. [19:52] <nympheart> maybe chocolate, but there was no power in what she did, it was the lack of [19:52] <jade_and_diamond_fire> but i kind of want to think that that kind of evil is not truly magical [19:52] <stewiegryf> could be chocolate, but i think voldemort's problems stemmed from a lack of love [19:53] *** Punky left #lounge [] [19:53] <Aislinn> Sirius loved Harry like a son and a friend. What are some sacrifices that he made out of love for Harry? [19:53] <Tanaqui> i agree with fawkes--that and she was never encouraged at home [19:54] <nympheart> he was willing to sacrifice freedom, and therefore life [19:54] <fawkes28> sirius made the ultimate sacrifice for harry [19:54] <SoonerGryffindor> starving, living off of rats, and risking imprisonment [19:54] <futureweasley> Sirius sacrificed everything for Harry [19:54] <Aislinn> the year up in the cave, yes sooner [19:54] <Tanaqui> sirius gave up his motorbike [19:54] <stewiegryf> Living off scraps of food to be there for Harry during the Triwizard Tournament [19:54] <JMlovesHP> i agree future [19:54] <futureweasley> Sirius sacrificed his life (both in life and in death) [19:54] <nympheart> laugh that must be the worst of all, Tanaqui [19:54] <Aislinn> He risked his life escaping from Azkaban to go to Hogwarts to protect Harry from Peter [19:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehehe [19:55] <Tanaqui> exactly! lol [19:55] <fawkes28> he could have stayed in the tropics or wherever he was and probably would have still been alive - however he chose to be closer to harry to protect him [19:55] <SoonerGryffindor> He went to live in GP for the last year of his life [19:55] <Aislinn> and from that moment on, most of his actions were geared towards protecting Harry [19:55] <Aislinn> yes sooner - very true [19:55] <stewiegryf> Risked everything to go into the Ministry to save Harry. [19:55] <fawkes28> and Sirius even put up with Snape - which we all know how hard it was for him to do [19:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> people need to stop trying to protect harry... it's a death wish! [19:55] <nympheart> true fawkes [19:55] <futureweasley> that was a huge Sacrifice..he lived in his own personal Hell and worked with his archenemy [19:56] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, he sacrificed his freedom to stick around and watch over Harry [19:56] *** JMlovesHP left #lounge [] [19:56] <stewiegryf> It would be hard for anyone fawkes. (even petunia) [19:56] <Aislinn> that's an excellent point future [19:56] <DumbleDebbie> lol stewie [19:56] <Aislinn> it was so difficult for him to stay at Grimmauld Place and work with Snape, but he knew that it was the right thing to do, so he sacrificed and did it [19:57] <Tanaqui> yep--suffered through molly's cleaning [19:57] <futureweasley> these are the reasons I love Sirius...he put himself on the line for Harry in every way he could [19:57] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i've got to go, time for Beauty and the Geek, nice chatting though [19:57] <nympheart> bye jade [19:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well... he was sort of ordered to stay, too... Dumbledore did tell him to stay, so it wasn't ALL on his own... [19:57] <DumbleDebbie> bye jade [19:57] <fawkes28> Sirius is similar to Harry is in willingness to sacrifice himself for others [19:57] *** jade_and_diamond_fire has quit [Bye] [19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> his love for Harry is what drove him out of Azkaban in the first place [19:58] <Aislinn> but his year in the cave was chocolate [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> yes fawkes [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but he was free then, somewhat [19:58] <nympheart> not just Molly's cleaning, he suffered through Molly, they didn't get along very well [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> very good point Sooner [19:58] <Aislinn> and he could have chosen to go back to wherever he was initially in hiding, but he chose to help in the limited way that he could [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think he'd rather be active, and on the run eating rats than stuck in GP [19:58] <Tanaqui> especially once sirius wanted to go out--molly was most adamant about his orders [19:58] <nympheart> yes, chocolate, he's very much a dog [19:59] <fawkes28> Sirius was caged like an animal for a year and he is not meant to be caged [19:59] <Aislinn> yes chocolate, I think so too [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> poor sirius sad [19:59] <Aislinn> The emotion Harry felt at the idea of being reunited with Sirius in death, protected Harry from Voldemort's possession. How is this similar to the way that Lily's sacrifice had protected Harry? [19:59] <stewiegryf> Yes chocolate, but both of those are sacrifices [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true [19:59] <DumbleDebbie> it's rooted in love [20:00] <nympheart> It was a lot like how they physically touched each other in SS, but this time it was mental [20:00] *** Tanaqui left #lounge [] [20:00] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:00] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:00] <futureweasley> the longing is where the magic lies... [20:00] <fawkes28> i think at that time - harry was so emotional and was grieiving strongly for sirius [20:00] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that both are very strong forms of love [20:00] <futureweasley> the longing to be reunited is more powerful than possession or the threat of death [20:01] <Aislinn> voldemort is so unable to feel love, that any contact with it is unendurable for him [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i second that, aislinn [20:02] <Aislinn> and once again, Harry's thoughts were turned towards another, just as Lilly's were in protecting her son [20:02] <Aislinn> voldemort is all inward - all me, me, me - while these expressions of love are turned outward towards others [20:02] <nympheart> it must be very similar magic for the two to have an almost identical effect [20:02] <DumbleDebbie> very true [20:02] <nympheart> nice, Aislinn [20:03] <DumbleDebbie> that's also what allowed Harry to conjure the Patronus at the beginning of OotP, thinking of Ron and Hermione [20:03] <Aislinn> What are some examples in Book 4 of Harry sacrificing for others? Were these sacrifices out of love, duty, or a combination of both? What lessons did these sacrifices teach him that were important? [20:03] <nympheart> bringing back Cedric's body was definitely a combination of both love and duty [20:03] <DumbleDebbie> he sacrificed coming in 1st in the 2nd task to save all the hostages [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> and he was rewarded in the points, which was good positive reinforcement smile [20:04] <Aislinn> don't feel that you have to limit thoughts/answers to book 4 [20:04] <stewiegryf> Gotta run everyone. Have to study. Happy V-day! [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> bye stewie [20:04] *** stewiegryf left #lounge [] [20:04] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> adios stewie! [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> Ron taught Harry the necessity of sacrifice in the chess match in PS/SS [20:05] <hrh7> Good point, DD [20:05] <nympheart> nice point, debbie, very true [20:05] <nympheart> "we've all got to make some sacrifices" [20:05] <fawkes28> Harry has never sacrificed himself out of duty, IMO [20:05] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Harry fought the Basilisk for Ginny... she could've been dead for all he knew, but he still fought hard for her [20:05] <Aislinn> I think that Harry has been wililng to sacrifice himself in almost every book [20:05] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> even while dying [20:05] <nympheart> I think Harry feels a duty to love [20:05] <DumbleDebbie> yep, and nearly died choco [20:06] <fawkes28> Harry did it because he was selfless [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> In book 1, it was to keep LV from coming back [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> part of what makes him so endearing [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> in book 2, it was to save Ginny [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> in book 3, he stood in front ot Peter [20:06] <fawkes28> his love is unexplainable - he does what is in his heart not because it is his duty [20:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think he has motivation, definitely, but is that the same as duty? [20:06] <Aislinn> He did see Ron make the sacrifice in the chess game, but he was the one who was willing to risk his being able to stay at Hogwarts, and maybe even his life by going after the stong [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> in book 4, he risked his life to brng Cedric's body back [20:06] <Aislinn> stone [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> in book 5, he risked his life to help Dudly [20:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> like, he doesn't HAVE to do any of those things, and nobody would blame him for it [20:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if he didn't [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> I was going to say it's in each book, Sooner's got the details smile [20:07] <Aislinn> In book 2, he was willing to risk his life to save Ginny [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> in book 6, he is going to sacrifice his hapiness with Ginny [20:07] <nympheart> He kind of has a duty to his parents doesn't he? He pays it the same way they did to him. [20:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i see that nymph [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> what about book 7 Sooner? wink [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> he is going to risk his life to save the world [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> yay!!! [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> biggrin [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> like in the graveyard when he felt the need to stand up and face voldemort... it reminded him that his father didn't die as a coward, and neither would he [20:08] <Aislinn> yes chocolate [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> true choco [20:08] <fawkes28> clap [20:08] <Aislinn> Is sacrifice the greatest means of using love as a force against evil? Will Harry have to sacrifice himself in order to fully make use of his "love power"? [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> I think he'll have to be willing to [20:09] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that he will try to [20:09] <Aislinn> yes, debbie, be willing to [20:09] <nympheart> I don't want to answer the second question! [20:09] <SoonerGryffindor> but I dont think that he will succeed [20:09] <fawkes28> i think he will definitely try [20:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> what if harry learns how to posess Voldemort, then loves him to death from within/ [20:09] <Aislinn> but as sooner just so succinctly pointed out, he has been willing to in every book [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> I'm hoping the gleam means there's a loophole that will cause wheatever Voldy tries to do to kill Harry to boomerang on Voldy [20:09] <fawkes28> i think that he needs to be willing in order for some greater magic to take over - some type of old magic [20:09] <hrh7> Got to go. Thanks [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> see ya hrh7 [20:10] <Aislinn> that's what I think is going to happen, chocolate [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> bye hrh7 [20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> bye [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> I think it'll be similar to what Lily did, but with a twist [20:10] *** hrh7 has quit [Bye] [20:10] <nympheart> But I think sacrifice is definitely the greatest way to use Love, it's sort of turning what you have and what you are into Love itself [20:10] *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge [20:10] <nympheart> hi Carpe [20:10] <fawkes28> hello carpe [20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> hello carpe [20:10] <Aislinn> hi carpe! [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> say, for example, that he is willing to die for someone loathesome, like Snape, what amazing display of love that would be [20:10] <CarpeDiem> Hi all! smile [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> hi CD [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ok, he's not Jesus [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :-P [20:11] <SoonerGryffindor> actually, Debbie raises a good point [20:11] <Aislinn> yes it would be debbie [20:11] <SoonerGryffindor> it would be amazing [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> it's easy to love your friends [20:11] <CarpeDiem> Debbie, does the character of the person you are sacraficing yourself for make the act of sacrafice that much more nobel? [20:11] <SoonerGryffindor> right, and harder to sacrifice for you enemies [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> so in a way, being willing to sacrifice himself for his friend would be powerful, but really wouldn't be unique [20:12] <Aislinn> very true [20:12] <nympheart> like Harry and Peter or James and Snape [20:12] <fawkes28> i think he will have to forgive snape and voldemort - which would be an act of love [20:12] <CarpeDiem> Ah I see now, yes, good point [20:12] <Aislinn> it is harder to make that step of selflessness for someone that he loathes [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> and the premise of the story, I think, is that Harry is special, that he holds a unique quality that will vanquish Voldy [20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i dont see harry doing anything without motivation... it's not in his character. I don't want him to become Godlike and just become sacrificial just because it's the right thing to do... he needs a reason, i think [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> cool carpe smile [20:13] <Aislinn> it won't be a godlike act, chocolate, but it will be an extraordinary act of selflessness [20:13] <nympheart> I'm sure if that happens, there will be a clear reason, chocolate [20:13] <SoonerGryffindor> agreed Aislinn [20:13] <futureweasley> absolutely [20:13] <DumbleDebbie> however, I still think he won't end up dead (although he may be a little bit dead for a while wink) [20:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wouldn't be able to connect with him as a character anymore... it's so not human [20:13] <SoonerGryffindor> and I think that we might see somehitng similar to this in DH [20:13] <CarpeDiem> lol half-dead Debbie? [20:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> mostly dead? [20:13] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, just like harryfreak has been saying all this time wink [20:14] <nympheart> and then chocolate will make it go down easier? [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> 'not quite dead yet' [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> me too Sooner [20:14] <Aislinn> Voldemort never had any true friends or was loved, thus he never learned the rewards and joy that can come from sacrificing for the sake of others. In Harry's early years at Hogwarts he had numerous near-death experiences that made him learn to rely on others and appreciate them. If Voldemort had similar experiences would this have helped to change him for the better? [20:14] <nympheart> yup, but LV was on his own from his birth [20:14] <SoonerGryffindor> Voldemort would have never been in this situation [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> I think Voldemort was beyond the point of no return long before he entered Hogwarts [20:15] *** Kelgadis has joined #lounge [20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think his ability to change was gone a while ago... yeah, debbie [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> hi kelgadis [20:15] <nympheart> hi Kel [20:15] <Kelgadis> yo [20:15] <fawkes28> I think you are right Debbie [20:15] <fawkes28> i dont think it would have made a difference [20:15] <CarpeDiem> I agree Sooner. I think LV made choices that both distanced himself and made sure he would not need to rely on anyone [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> he got his kicks out of hurting people [20:15] <CarpeDiem> Hi Kelgadis [20:15] <fawkes28> I am sure people tried to reach out to him, but he just pushed them away [20:15] <Aislinn> yes carpe, that's true [20:15] <SoonerGryffindor> Tom Riddle would have never made the choice to have friends. Therefore he could never have been in the same situations as Harry [20:15] *** matilda has joined #lounge [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> he sees reliance as a weakness [20:16] <DumbleDebbie> hi matilda [20:16] <SoonerGryffindor> hi matilda [20:16] <Kelgadis> yo [20:16] <matilda> hey! [20:16] <fawkes28> hi matilda [20:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i love that movie... [20:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and book... [20:16] * DumbleDebbie just had the song 'waltzing matilda' pop into her head [20:17] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:17] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:17] <nympheart> I think if something happened that would have really jarred him while in school, Tom would have seen the value of Love. I don't think he was a lost cause that young. [20:17] <Aislinn> In the books, how important has sacrificing for those you love been to various individuals' character development? How has it made them better people, and how has it helped them to grow up to be better members of Wizarding society? [20:17] <CarpeDiem> So was LV never given love or just never accepted it then? [20:17] <CarpeDiem> Bah! Sorry! smile [20:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder when tom's obsession with death started... because if he did face death, and had to choose between death or relying on someone to save him, i wonder what he'd do? would he just use the person to stay alive and then sever contact with them, or would he accept death in favor of relying on someone else [20:17] *** hpaddict has joined #lounge [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> hi hpaddict [20:17] <fawkes28> hi hpaddict [20:17] <matilda> I think he'd use the other person [20:17] <nympheart> hi hpaddict [20:17] <Aislinn> that's ok, Ken! smile [20:17] <hpaddict> 'lo! [20:18] <matilda> and not see it as relying so much as using, with no reciprocation [20:18] <Aislinn> hi hpaddict [20:18] <hpaddict> who is dying currently? [20:18] <Aislinn> repeat of the question: In the books, how important has sacrificing for those you love been to various individuals' character development? How has it made them better people, and how has it helped them to grow up to be better members of Wizarding society? [20:18] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:18] <hpaddict> oh - hard question [20:19] <fawkes28> i think it really is about people's choices - not about who sacrifices themselves for another one [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I think much in the way that it works in the muggle world [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, everyone who's sacrificed themselves are dead... [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> no chocolate [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :-P [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i know [20:19] <matilda> well, the biggest sacrifice was lily's, and it didn't help her too much as far as character development [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> McGonagall sacrificed herself [20:19] <DumbleDebbie> it made her the hero of the series [20:19] <CarpeDiem> I think sacrafice is an important theme throughout the book. We see sacrifice by Lilly right from the start. And even the Dursleys in an odd sense. [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> she took many stunners for Hagrid This post has been edited by futureweasley: Feb 14 2007, 10:35 PM |
 |
  
 
|
|
Feb 14 2007, 10:34 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner |
[20:20] <hpaddict> sooner - she did?
[20:20] <hpaddict> oh - gotcha [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> Firenze sacrificed himself in a way [20:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think one persons sacrifice could change the sacrificee than it changes themselves [20:20] <hpaddict> in a big way! [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, in OotP [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> Lily, ultimately, saved the wizarding world by her sacrifice [20:20] <Kelgadis> i think dumbledore's sacrifice (yes i see it as a sacrifice) really helped Harry to grow up and so did Sirius's [20:20] <nympheart> oh, that's true Sooner, I didn't think of him [20:20] <Aislinn> good points sooner [20:20] <fawkes28> i think that people who sacrifice themselves - do it just because of who they are inside - i dont think it necessarily adds to their character development [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> Dobby sacrificed himself [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> yes, kel [20:20] <nympheart> sacrificing himself was the only way he could help wizard society [20:20] <hpaddict> but it does in a literary sense, fawkes [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> he risked punishment to go warn Harry [20:20] <hpaddict> we, the reader, value them more [20:20] <CarpeDiem> We see Ron sacrafice him self in a very literal way as a chess piece in SS/PS. [20:20] <hpaddict> we hold them in higher esteem for their choices [20:21] <Aislinn> I think it reinforces the character strength that they have fawkes [20:21] <Aislinn> yes, carpe [20:21] <CarpeDiem> That sets a feel for Rons character and the strength of the Trio's friendship [20:21] <hpaddict> and it is something that Ron brings to the trio [20:21] *** hpfan1970 has joined #lounge [20:21] <hpaddict> his undying loyalty [20:21] <hpfan1970> hey guys [20:21] <DumbleDebbie> hi hpfan [20:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hermione sacrifices her own pride for Harry and Ron... it's how they became friends [20:21] <CarpeDiem> We've seen many examples of sacrafice eventually leading to strength [20:21] <SoonerGryffindor> hey hpfan [20:21] <hpaddict> as Hermione brings brain [20:21] <Kelgadis> i agree hpaddict [20:22] <nympheart> hi hpfan [20:22] <Aislinn> and we see that again in PoA, carpe, when Ron stands on his broken leg and tells Sirius that he would have to take all 3 of them [20:22] <DumbleDebbie> good poitn choco [20:22] <Aislinn> hi hpfan [20:22] <CarpeDiem> Love that scene Aislinn! smile [20:22] <Kelgadis> Yeah Ron's good at that [20:22] <Aislinn> me too, carpe smile [20:22] <Kelgadis> That's why I adore him! [20:22] <hpfan1970> i love ron's moments of bravery [20:22] <matilda> Ron's loyalty is unquestionable. [20:22] <Aislinn> Ron made a choice near the end of Book 1 to sacrifice himself for Harry's sake - and Harry let him. How hard would it be for Harry to let one of his friends sacrifice for him like that now? Would his love for them get in the way of him letting them go through with it? [20:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed, matilda [20:23] <matilda> I think it would, because this time a sacrifice would mean death [20:23] <hpaddict> Wow - I don't think that it is a question of time that allows Harry to make the sacrifice [20:23] <nympheart> Now the cost of sacrifice would be death, and Harry would be far more reluctant [20:23] <Kelgadis> I think so unless there was no other option [20:23] <SoonerGryffindor> no, I think that was to show us that Harry will be able to allow that [20:23] <DumbleDebbie> he would definintely want to do it himself unless there was no choice [20:23] <CarpeDiem> Wow...I never thought of it from Harry's point. It demanded a great deal of trust on Harry's part. [20:23] <Aislinn> I think that will be a struggle for him in the next book, yes [20:23] <fawkes28> Harry wants to protect everyone - and he wouldnt be able to in DH [20:23] <hpfan1970> i think so,i see it being impossible for him to allow one of his best friends to die before him [20:23] <futureweasley> there was no other option [20:23] <matilda> Harry is through with people dying for him! [20:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yyyyyyesssss - harry wouldn't be able to STAND it... that's why he severed ties with Ginny [20:23] <hpaddict> I think that Harry would make the same choice now - even if that sacrifice was permanent - as he would want Hr/R to allow himself to sacrifice himself in order to save the world/wizarding world [20:23] <nympheart> agreed matilda [20:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, matilda [20:23] <futureweasley> Ron set it up and the last of the options was the execution of the plan [20:24] <Kelgadis> matilda is right [20:24] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that is why he originally planned on going by himself at the end of book 6 [20:24] <nympheart> I think now Harry wouldn't let him if there were any way at all things could go differently, and even maybe if they couldn't [20:24] <CarpeDiem> It shows some growth in his character. yes, Fawkes...he is allowing someone to take care of themself for once. To allow them to face their own consequences [20:24] <futureweasley> it was clear, it was immediate, it was decisive [20:24] <fawkes28> however, Ron and Hermione are more than willing to sacrifice themselves and if it came down to it - they would do it for Harry in a heartbeat - even though Harry may not let them [20:24] <DumbleDebbie> yes Sooner to protect them [20:24] <Aislinn> Harry thought during DD's funeral about how everyone who loved him had stood between him and LV, and he thought to himself - that is over now [20:24] <Kelgadis> I think that Harry wouldn't allow it, but Ron would do it anyway [20:24] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont think Harry is going to have a choice [20:24] <futureweasley> Ron and Hermione are more willing to sacrifice themselves that Harry is willing to let them...if that makes any sense [20:25] <hpaddict> Harry would try to stop it, but I do think he would make the same choice [20:25] <hpaddict> allow ron to sacrifice himself [20:25] <Aislinn> He feels he needs to do it himself, and does not want anyone else to stand between him and LV [20:25] <DumbleDebbie> yes future, it does make sense [20:25] <Aislinn> yes, future, exactly! [20:25] <hpaddict> it if meant the destruction of LV [20:25] <fawkes28> Harry let Ron take the sacrifice in the 1st book so why wouldn't he let him in the 7th book? [20:25] <fawkes28> then the story would come full circle [20:25] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry has already made the decision to allow them to go with him. Surely he realizes what that entails? [20:25] <matilda> Personally I think they will all three survive, no death-sacrifices [20:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think so too matilda [20:25] <Kelgadis> because in the 1st book Ron didn't die. He would in the 7th if it happened [20:25] <hpfan1970> me too matilda,at least i'm hoping anyway [20:25] <CarpeDiem> Yep, I agree Sooner. Harry does not stand a chance one on one. His only hope is the trust and love he has for others. He must both sacrafice and allow others to sacrafice if he is to survive. [20:25] <nympheart> fawkes, the stakes are higher, and I think Harry is going to take full charge in DH [20:26] <fawkes28> well, there can still be a sacrifice - or at least a willingness to die [20:26] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [20:26] <Kelgadis> Oh yeah I am of the belief as well that the trio will make it out alive [20:26] <SoonerGryffindor> hello Pleshette [20:26] <futureweasley> hi Pleshette [20:26] <DumbleDebbie> hi Pleshette! [20:26] <fawkes28> hey pleshette [20:26] <nympheart> hi pleshette [20:26] <Kelgadis> hi pleshette [20:26] <hpaddict> ulp - I'm such a doom and gloomer - hi pleshette [20:26] <hpfan1970> hi pleshette [20:26] <hpaddict> I think that Harry and others are [20:26] <Pleshette> Hi everyone! [20:26] <Aislinn> Book 1, Hermione also sacrificed herself for her new-found friends. She sacrificed her standing amongst the teachers to protect Harry and Ron from getting in trouble. What do you think of this? Throughout the series, what are some other examples of her sacrificing for the love of her friends? [20:26] <hpaddict> dornail time [20:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ohh, i called this one [20:26] <CarpeDiem> lol chocolate [20:26] <Kelgadis> lol you did [20:26] <matilda> Her ability to let drop the SPEW in the last book and focus on other matters [20:27] <matilda> even though it's still important to her [20:27] <Kelgadis> hmmm... [20:27] <Pleshette> She took a big chance putting herself out there like that [20:27] <nympheart> seeing this, I don't understand why so many people think that she'll go to Hogwarts in DH [20:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i always thought this moment was weird... what is she saving them from? they were legitimately trying to save her, which wouldnt be looked down upon by the teachers, i wouldn't think? [20:27] <SoonerGryffindor> she risked detention or worse stealing supplies from Snapes office in COS [20:27] *** Wierdgirl5834 has joined #lounge [20:27] <Aislinn> yes, sooner [20:27] <nympheart> hi wierdgirl [20:27] <fawkes28> going to the DoM was a big sacrifice for her as well as the others [20:27] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, that could have dire consequences Sooner [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> hi wierd [20:28] *** MorteVnre7 has joined #lounge [20:28] <CarpeDiem> She sacrafices her own grades and study time to not only assist with adventures but also make sure the boys are doing their work as well. It must be hard for Hermione to allow them so much leniency...on the verge of cheating at times smile [20:28] <futureweasley> Harry allowing Ron and Hermione to bicker in front of him, teetering him on the edge of the Closed Ward at St Mungo's...now there's sacrifice [20:28] <fawkes28> hi morte [20:28] <Kelgadis> well if she told the real story of why she was in there in the first place the boys would be in even more trouble [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> hi morte [20:28] <SoonerGryffindor> because she knew they could not risk getting in more trouble [20:28] <Aislinn> and the use of the time turner to go back and save Sirius and Buckbeak was a risk [20:28] <nympheart> hi morte [20:28] <hpaddict> Each has done it in their own way -no doubt [20:28] <Wierdgirl5834> so what're you talking about? [20:28] *** MorteVnre7 has quit [Bye] [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> lol fw [20:28] <SoonerGryffindor> she went wilingly to the MoM at the end of OotP [20:28] <fawkes28> that is a good one, aislinn [20:28] <CarpeDiem> Good point Aislinn. That was her ticket to an amazing education...she could have learned it all [20:28] <Aislinn> that's true carpe, she also did that with helping Harry prepare for the Triwizard tasks [20:28] <Kelgadis> Yeah the time-tuner event was illegal, wasn't it? [20:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she fought hard against MoM, lol, but once they went in, she was golden [20:28] <nympheart> yes, sooner, and don't forget she led Umbridge into the Forest [20:28] <matilda> I think they're all going to Hogwarts, writing an essay about that [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> yes she did [20:29] <Wierdgirl5834> you're talking about hermione....i'm guessing?.... [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yes [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> she is willing to sacrifice her 7th year of her education [20:29] <Wierdgirl5834> okay [20:29] <Kelgadis> yeah I forgot about the centar attack [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> her sacrifices [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ohhh good one sooner [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's a biggie [20:29] <Kelgadis> yeah [20:29] <Kelgadis> good one [20:29] <Kelgadis> ! [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> that is big for her [20:29] <Aislinn> that is huge for her, sooner [20:29] <fawkes28> for hermione it is a big one [20:29] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:29] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:30] <futureweasley> Wierdgirl, we are talking about Sacrificial Love...right now...as it relates to Ron and Hermione [20:30] <SoonerGryffindor> not so much for Ron [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ron's like "woo!" [20:30] <Wierdgirl5834> jus being by harryy's side is a sacrifice [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> dangit sooner! [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [20:30] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:30] <nympheart> true wierdgirl, that is a dangerous position [20:30] <fawkes28> that is true, wierdgirl [20:30] <hpaddict> but it has also gained him an identity [20:30] <Aislinn> Why couldn't Peter find the love and strength to sacrifice his own life to save his old friends - the Potters? By surrounding himself with evil did this weaken his ability to love or to remember how he used to care for others? [20:30] *** antonin has joined #lounge [20:30] <hpaddict> distinct among the weasley clan [20:30] <nympheart> hi antonin [20:30] <DumbleDebbie> hi antonin [20:30] <Kelgadis> hi antonin [20:30] <antonin> hey [20:30] * SoonerGryffindor is afraid to answer this quesion [20:31] <antonin> hi [20:31] <Aislinn> we're talking about sacrificial love antonin [20:31] <Wierdgirl5834> cuz wormtail's a wimp...? [20:31] <DumbleDebbie> lol Sooner [20:31] <Aislinn> and right now we are talking about Peter [20:31] <antonin> okay, cool [20:31] <Kelgadis> oh I have no idea what was going through his head [20:31] <nympheart> I wonder how much Love Peter could have had in the first place [20:31] <Kelgadis> hmm.. [20:31] <hpaddict> because making that kind of choice is HARD [20:31] <Aislinn> I think that he made a self serving choice [20:31] <hpaddict> we judge others so harshly [20:31] <Pleshette> This is a tough one...maybe because he never felt truly accepted within the Marauder group [20:31] <fawkes28> Peter had no inner strength - he could not rise above his love of power and recognition [20:31] <matilda> do we have any proof that Peter ever had that kind of love for the Potters in the first place? [20:31] * DumbleDebbie is still waiting to find out why Peter was sorted into Gryffindor [20:31] <hpfan1970> right fawkes [20:31] <Kelgadis> good point pleshette [20:31] <hpaddict> but then in "real life" we see people making choices for themselves and rarely the good of others [20:32] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that we just have to accept that some people are stronger than others and Peter just realy has no moral fiber that I can see [20:32] <Wierdgirl5834> Wormtail is a selfish wimp dependent wimp, that has problems [20:32] <hpaddict> I don't think Peter is all evil [20:32] <Aislinn> me too debbie [20:32] <fawkes28> Peter makes his own choices - i do not make any excuses for his behavior [20:32] <hpaddict> he is a coward, more than evil [20:32] * nympheart is waiting with Debbie [20:32] <Aislinn> I haven't seen courageous acts on his part [20:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe he had the seeds of selfishness and evil when they were younger... jealousy towards the others and they never seemed to "build him up" with kind words or anything, even though they did trust him enough to be part of their clan... but i think if he was offered acceptance that he didn't get from them, he would take it... and that's what happened [20:32] <hpfan1970> he was weak and didn't have the strength to be his own man,always had to suck up to someone in power [20:32] <Pleshette> When he "got a better offer" from the other side, he made a choice [20:32] *** antonin has quit [Bye] [20:32] <CarpeDiem> I think in this case fear overpowered any love he felt or that would have allowed him to sacrifice anything at that point. I've always wondered what LV promised or had on him to make him turn tail. Was it an easy or difficult decision for Peter? [20:32] <Kelgadis> yeah I guess [20:33] <fawkes28> right but better offer or not - you dont betray your friends [20:33] <Pleshette> good point carpe [20:33] <Wierdgirl5834> well sirius would've done it [20:33] <Kelgadis> I would hope that it was at least a difficult decision [20:33] <Wierdgirl5834> he would've dide [20:33] <Aislinn> do you think that he was blackmailed, carpe? [20:33] <Wierdgirl5834> died sorry [20:33] <fawkes28> sirius was right when he said that he should have died rather than betrayed his friends [20:33] <hpaddict> I just don't find it right to be so harsh on Peter [20:33] <hpaddict> he's a slimeball, yes [20:33] <Kelgadis> well Sirius is like Harry - stubborn to a fault [20:33] <Aislinn> yes he was fawkes [20:33] <nympheart> I don't think it would have taken much blackmail in Peter's case [20:33] <hpaddict> but I think that we as readers are far more harsh than we would be to a character than we would be to ourselves [20:33] <fawkes28> why not, hpaddict? [20:34] <CarpeDiem> Aislinn, I would like to think that he was, but as you said I have not seen any evidence of strenght whatsoever in his character. So, probably not smile [20:34] <hpaddict> why now what fawkes [20:34] <hpaddict> not [20:34] <Kelgadis> it is a difficult decision to make for some people, especially if the bond wasn't that great [20:34] <fawkes28> Peter was knew exactly what he was doing [20:34] <hpaddict> He did [20:34] <hpaddict> I agree with that [20:34] <fawkes28> we should not make excuses for his behavior [20:34] <Wierdgirl5834> like I said it wouldn't be a hard decision for Sirius or remus for that matter [20:34] <CarpeDiem> James and the others saw something in him, something allowed him to be in Gryfindor so maybe we'll see a redemption there...a sacrifice of some sort [20:34] <hpaddict> but I think making the hard choice [20:35] <hpaddict> I don't see it often [20:35] * DumbleDebbie is glad she doesn't have such a low opinion of humanity to think most people are like Peter [20:35] <Aislinn> Snape and Wormtail both owe (or have owed) the Potter "men" lifedebts. They were staying together in the same house in Book 6. Is this just a coincidence or does this make it more likely that the two of them will do something together to repay the debt? Will they sacrifice themselves in doing so? [20:35] <hpfan1970> right again fawkes,i think peter was an opportunist and a user [20:35] <hpaddict> I see people making the easy choices [20:35] <fawkes28> yes, he did, hpaddict [20:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that had more to do with voldemort spying on snape [20:35] <Kelgadis> I don't see them pulling a Batman and Robin relationship [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> I never thought about it in this way, that is very interesting [20:35] <Wierdgirl5834> Oh it's because Voldy wants for them to keep an eye on each other heard it on mugglecast [20:36] <Kelgadis> I think that Snape is good and will do things his own way [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think the life debt will be repaid consciously [20:36] <fawkes28> i dont think snape ever wants to work with wormtail [20:36] <CarpeDiem> I think their pairing is important. They are both "traders" in a sense. There is a bond there. They are also both dead to LV now, their use is all but finished [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> snape isn't good! lol but he may yet work for the good side [20:36] <Kelgadis> Wormtail will probably do something on accident, that does seem to be his character [20:36] <Wierdgirl5834> also I think that wormtail will do it Alone [20:36] <hpfan1970> right,i think snape despises peter,treats him more like a house-elf [20:36] <hpaddict> wait - how does severus owe a lifedebt [20:36] <hpaddict> not by the transitive property [20:36] <hpaddict> he owed James [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> to James [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha [20:36] <CarpeDiem> Kel - good point! [20:36] <hpaddict> but how does he owe Harry? [20:37] *** matilda has quit [Bye] [20:37] <Kelgadis> thanks! [20:37] <fawkes28> wormtail is so different from snape [20:37] <Aislinn> right - to james [20:37] <Kelgadis> yeah [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think he does [20:37] <hpaddict> he is free to hate harry [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> obviously wink [20:37] <Kelgadis> and he will! [20:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> wormtail lacks snape's subtlety [20:37] <nympheart> I think Snape would have a tough time getting over the fact that Wormtail laughed at his exposed undies, I doubt Snape will willingly work with him like that [20:38] <Wierdgirl5834> But Harry owns a life-debt to Harry, see life debts keep running in cycles, so once harry fills his life-debt to harry, then snape will have a life debt in some form to harry maybe snape will save one of harry's kids life in the future [20:38] <CarpeDiem> fawkes they are similar in many ways too..,it's an interesting pairing [20:38] <Kelgadis> definately chocolate [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> lol nymph [20:38] *** memyslfnI has joined #lounge [20:38] <fawkes28> snape would be willing to die for a certain cause - wormtail fears death [20:38] <Wierdgirl5834> i mean harrry owns a life debt to harry my bad [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> hi me [20:38] <Aislinn> hey M [20:38] <SoonerGryffindor> hello me [20:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha debbie, i thought you were talking to yourself [20:38] <memyslfnI> howdy all. Happy V day! [20:38] <nympheart> hi me [20:38] <Wierdgirl5834> I MEAN SNAPE! soory my bad again [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> lol choco wacko [20:39] <Aislinn> If Snape turns out to be on Dumbledore's side rather than Voldemort's, how might killing Dumbledore have been a sacrifice on Snape's part? What are some things that he's lost or sacrificed because of his actions? [20:39] <Wierdgirl5834> oh god not this again....lol [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> he lost his comfy deep-cover position at Hogwarts [20:39] <SoonerGryffindor> He lost the only person who vouched for him [20:39] <Pleshette> Are we sure that Snape would die for a certain cause? [20:39] <nympheart> the odds of the Order trusting him [20:39] <Kelgadis> well he tore his soul in 2, I call that a sacrifice!! [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> true Sooner [20:39] <SoonerGryffindor> and nobody will trust him [20:39] <Aislinn> no we're not pleshette [20:39] <fawkes28> because snape admired dumbledore so much - to do that to someone you care about it terrible [20:40] <Wierdgirl5834> I actually don't think killing dumbledore could be a sacrifice, i just don't see how [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> I hope he did care [20:40] <memyslfnI> he has lost his position at hogwarts, his comfort inthe wizarding world as he will be hated and on the run constantly. there will always be those who point and stare and hate him for it [20:40] * Aislinn would like to point out the these questions were not written by her, as she would not phrase a snape question this way [20:40] <Kelgadis> Yeah, he sacrificed a lot in that move [20:40] <Aislinn> laugh [20:40] <fawkes28> LOL [20:40] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Aislinn [20:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehe [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> lol Aislinn [20:40] <nympheart> lol Aislinn [20:40] <CarpeDiem> DD would have/is the only one who knows the truth about Snape's actions. DD believing in you is not something to be looked at lightly. Killing the one person that knows your true heart...IF that's the case. It's qite a sacrifice. [20:40] <Kelgadis> lol [20:40] <fawkes28> we know, Aislinn, we know! [20:40] <nympheart> I knew that didn't sound like you [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> hmmmm, who would? wink [20:41] <SoonerGryffindor> it actually wasnt me this time [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> lol [20:41] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> that leaves Fawkes? [20:41] <fawkes28> hi nyb [20:41] <nympheart> hi NYB [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> hi NYB [20:41] <Wierdgirl5834> hey bookworm [20:41] <Pleshette> However, we still don't really know why Snape killed DD. I still don't trust him [20:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i see this more as dumbledore sacrificing himself for snape [20:41] <Aislinn> hi NYB [20:41] <NYBookworm> hi forgot wed sad [20:41] <fawkes28> no i didnt write these questions! [20:41] <SoonerGryffindor> hey NYB [20:41] <hpaddict> Snape is a git, for himself, but not evil [20:41] <hpaddict> LOL [20:41] <memyslfnI> Who wants to be known as the wizard who murded albus dumbledore? that is an honor that any descent wizard would not like to have [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> lol [20:41] <hpaddict> Heya NYBW [20:41] <hpaddict> AH! [20:41] <hpaddict> M [20:41] <hpaddict> how are ya? [20:41] * DumbleDebbie now wonders who did LOL [20:42] <Wierdgirl5834> oh my god in about 5 monthes we'll know the answer, 5 monthes guys.... [20:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if dumbledore knew about the UV, then he'd be trapped into choosing Snape rather than himself, because he's like that [20:42] * fawkes28 thinks future did [20:42] <fawkes28> hehehe [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> happy_crying wierd [20:42] <fawkes28> devil2 [20:42] <hpaddict> but if - just saying IF snape did do the ak as a sacrifice [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> that would be the third Snape lover staff member of the CB [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> FW, defend your honor! [20:42] <NYBookworm> what's the question? [20:42] <CarpeDiem> Exactly, me! Who can trust someone that would so "easily" kill another person? [20:42] <Wierdgirl5834> i know it's sad dumbledebbie [20:42] <Pleshette> To cast the AK...I don't know...I just can't get past that...there has to be some hatred behind that spell [20:42] <fawkes28> he did, hpaddict - dont worry [20:42] <hpaddict> he is not only offering up his very SOUL - [20:42] <hpaddict> but his reputation [20:42] <hpaddict> the hatred of the wizarding world [20:42] <hpaddict> in order to save him [20:43] <Aislinn> I totally agree pleshette [20:43] * futureweasley mumbles that the other CB mods need to shet it [20:43] <Wierdgirl5834> he's so ugly snape's already hated [20:43] <hpaddict> high sacrifice indeed [20:43] <Wierdgirl5834> jeez [20:43] <DumbleDebbie> lol [20:43] <Kelgadis> completely agree hpaddict [20:43] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL [20:43] <fawkes28> we love you, future hug [20:43] <memyslfnI> that's IF and only IF he did it at DD's request.. [20:43] <nympheart> lol [20:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that hatred could come from the occlumency/legilimency thing... conjuring up feelings and such that you don't necessarily feel? [20:43] * CarpeDiem thinks the CB staff are very good at twisting and changing their positions to suit the discussion. [20:43] <hpaddict> I don't think that DD requested it [20:43] <hpaddict> I think that snape made a split second decision [20:43] <memyslfnI> he nither HPaddict [20:43] <hpaddict> DD or Draco by the remaining DEs [20:43] <memyslfnI> me, rather [20:43] <hpaddict> and so he chose DD [20:44] <hpaddict> as he guessed at what DD would want [20:44] <memyslfnI> I agree [20:44] <hpaddict> I don't buy the occlumency between the two or whatever [20:44] <Wierdgirl5834> you know jkr should update her site and post snape is good in her rumors section just to throw everyone off on April FOol's lol [20:44] <nympheart> hmm, maybe chocolate, Jo said Draco could do it because he could "compartmentalize his life and emotions" [20:44] <DumbleDebbie> I think DD wanted him to do it. It saved Draco from becoming a murderer and IMO DD was nearly dead anyhow [20:44] <fawkes28> snape is good, darlings wink [20:44] <Kelgadis> whether or not he wanted to he had to [20:44] <memyslfnI> could be DD [20:44] <Aislinn> If Snape turns out to be on Dumbledore's side, do you think he ever felt friendship love for Dumbledore? Has he in the past, or could he in the future sacrifice for Harry out of love for Dumbledore? [20:44] <Kelgadis> because of the vow [20:44] <DumbleDebbie> I totally think there was a silent conversation on the tower that night [20:44] <Kelgadis> no [20:45] <hpaddict> I don't think they discussed scenarios [20:45] <nympheart> he hadn't in the past [20:45] <futureweasley> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. Don't forget to vote in the latest poll for the next WWW chat here http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry1100164 [20:45] <DumbleDebbie> no, I think it was more a business relationship [20:45] <hpfan1970> love? idk...friendship and respect? maybe [20:45] <CarpeDiem> Unfortunately with Snape, just about anything is still possible smile He's the ultimate enigma. A true mystery man smile [20:45] <Kelgadis> If he saves Harry, it wouldn't be for dumbledore [20:45] <fawkes28> of course i am going to say yes to this question [20:45] * futureweasley hands her CB resignation in to the Chief Cat Herder [20:45] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Snape is toast no matter whose side he is on [20:45] <Pleshette> I don't think DD would sacrifice himself like that when he could be of use to the Order still. He was trying to convince Draco to change Why would he choose to die? [20:45] <hpaddict> I think Snape lives [20:45] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:45] <fawkes28> bye bye! [20:45] <DumbleDebbie> lol FW! [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Snape was going to be on Dumbledore's side until that UV... then trapped himself [20:45] <Kelgadis> lol agree sooner [20:45] <hpaddict> gets to live with all his decisions [20:45] <Wierdgirl5834> naaah, although he might sacrifice himselin way in book 7, [20:45] <memyslfnI> I think his hatred for James will always block good feelings for Harry. Harry is a means to an end and nothing more. snape hates Harry, and I think he resents his role [20:45] <hpaddict> free to hate all and be hated [20:45] <NYBookworm> I don't think he ever loved DD or anything like that- but I think he respects and trusts him and would sacrifice for Harry's life is that was what was needed to overcome LV at that moment [20:45] <Kelgadis> Snape is going to die either way [20:46] <hpaddict> Snape is a git - no question - but he will do right [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> actually I'm now thinking Snape will live [20:46] <hpfan1970> i really can't wait to find out more about snape,he's so interesting,so many secrets [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Snape is a git and will remain so through the end :-D [20:46] <memyslfnI> He plays both sides too well for my taste. [20:46] <Wierdgirl5834> hope snape dies, i'm just kidding.....or not [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> and live with the knowledge that Harry Potter saved his bacon [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha that was so all over the place, weirdgirl [20:46] <nympheart> I feel the same way, me [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> like father, like son grin [20:46] <hpaddict> I did say he is a git, M [20:46] <memyslfnI> and resent him for it, DD [20:47] * fawkes28 chooses not to comment on this question [20:47] <CarpeDiem> lol DD - I like that! [20:47] <hpaddict> I think he'd chose to save harry over LV [20:47] <hpaddict> but he'll let harry bleed a bit in the process [20:47] <Aislinn> yes, Debbie - I love that thought! [20:47] <hpaddict> cause - again [20:47] <hpaddict> git [20:47] <Wierdgirl5834> SNape is ugly, everyone hates him. No one likes him. Why doesn't harry tell him to get a LIFE?! [20:47] <Wierdgirl5834> jeez! [20:47] <fawkes28> i think so too, hpaddict [20:47] <memyslfnI> could be HPAddict! I never thought of that..the better of two evils [20:47] <fawkes28> snape will save harry in the end [20:47] <hpaddict> I believe that snape is out for himself [20:47] <hpaddict> but when forced to choose [20:48] <hpaddict> will go against LV [20:48] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah he could be [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> I really do not think that Snape does anything out of love [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> I think it's just the opposite fawkes [20:48] <memyslfnI> I think he will go through the veil with Harry. Or show him how to go there [20:48] <Aislinn> I don't either sooner [20:48] <fawkes28> just when i thought i agreed with you hpaddict sad [20:48] <hpaddict> nope - no love sooner [20:48] <futureweasley> Snape is SO not a "love" word [20:48] <hpaddict> LOL [20:48] <Kelgadis> I'm not sure what he'll do, but I think he is against Voldemort [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> lol fw [20:48] <Wierdgirl5834> the veil, i don't think so... [20:48] <Aislinn> revenge, jealousy, a need to be respected, but not love [20:48] <Kelgadis> yeah [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> bitterness, envy, self-actualizaion, but never love [20:48] <hpaddict> need to be feared, I think [20:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree with sooner - love isn't there [20:48] <hpaddict> power trip [20:48] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> self-preservation [20:48] <CarpeDiem> Snape would NEVER call it love. More along the lines of honor or loyalty or debt for him. [20:48] <Wierdgirl5834> Snape. LOve. Don't mix. [20:49] <futureweasley> suspicious, nerotic, greasy...but never love [20:49] <Kelgadis> Snape doesn't love [20:49] <hpaddict> he's a pretty miserable self-loathing kinda guy [20:49] <Aislinn> Who are some other characters that might have to sacrifice themselves as part of Jo's need to redeem them? Will they sacrifice themselves out of love for Harry or will it be guilt? [20:49] <hpaddict> Bill [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> lol fw, tell us how you really feel wink [20:49] <hpfan1970> percy [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> Preercy [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> yup that's likely [20:49] <Kelgadis> Percy is a git [20:49] <Wierdgirl5834> Hey guys, if snape lives, what do you think he's doing for Valentine's day? [20:49] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast loves Bill and was going to marry him before phlem showed up [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> Wormtail [20:49] <Kelgadis> I think he's toast [20:49] <Wierdgirl5834> today [20:49] <fawkes28> that you kel! [20:49] *** matilda has joined #lounge [20:49] <nympheart> sulking, weird [20:49] <hpaddict> Weasley clan is not going to fare well [20:49] <hpfan1970> lol chocolate [20:49] <memyslfnI> I think Percy will, I think Bill will help Harry with his Gringotts curse breaking skills as well [20:49] <Aislinn> I don't think Percy would do it out of love for Harry though [20:49] <hpaddict> Ginny will try [20:49] * fawkes28 hates both peter and percy so she won't comment [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> I can see Percy sacrificing out of love for his family, once he acknowledges he still has some [20:49] <matilda> back, sorry. internet kicked me out [20:50] <Aislinn> he may finally realize what the right side is [20:50] <NYBookworm> Draco but certianly not out of love for harry [20:50] <Kelgadis> Draco is my answer [20:50] <DumbleDebbie> wb matilda [20:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> wb matilda [20:50] <matilda> Percy will come back! [20:50] <Wierdgirl5834> Yeah Ginny man she will do anything for harry [20:50] <CarpeDiem> Snape, Wormtail, and Percy are all in contention for redemption. All have made clearly visible mistakes in the past. [20:50] <Pleshette> Percy, yes smile [20:50] <DumbleDebbie> Draco is an interesting possibility [20:50] <memyslfnI> I think percey has been working undercover for the order all along *hides* [20:50] <Kelgadis> Draco out of revenge, because I have a feeling that Voldy will kill his mother [20:50] <Kelgadis> just a hunch [20:50] <DumbleDebbie> that's possible, me [20:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ugh percy is motivated by success in his career, not by which side wins, unfortunately [20:50] <hpaddict> Oh M - that would be great [20:50] <hpaddict> I don't think so [20:50] <Wierdgirl5834> I can totally see Ginny trying to sacrifice herself, but not dying in the process [20:50] <nympheart> I can see that Kel [20:50] <hpaddict> but wouldn't that be a nice change for Molly? [20:50] <hpfan1970> i think percy will have a last-minute change of heart but die in the process,thereby redeeming himself [20:50] <CarpeDiem> That's an interesting theory me - his mom would kill him though, you know that, right? smile [20:50] <fawkes28> i dont think peter or percy will be redeemed [20:51] <memyslfnI> ha! yes, she would [20:51] <DumbleDebbie> she might not be around to do that carpe sad [20:51] <hpaddict> Why is it that I have good reasons for each character to die [20:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think anyone could die at this point... except gwarp [20:51] <hpaddict> but none for them to live? [20:51] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that Percy will not sacrifice his physical self, but his professional self [20:51] <futureweasley> Percy will give up his honor as long as he can keep his "big head boy" badge [20:51] <Kelgadis> lol addict [20:51] <hpfan1970> that could be sooner [20:51] <matilda> I don't see Peter as redeemable [20:51] <memyslfnI> that would be harder for Percy! I like that too [20:51] <nympheart> ooh, I like that Sooner [20:51] <hpaddict> FW - LOL [20:51] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah good one sooner gryffindor [20:51] <DumbleDebbie> lol future [20:51] <fawkes28> i dont think he will give up his love of the job for his family [20:51] <Pleshette> I agree Sooner, at least for a bit (career) [20:51] <Aislinn> Will Harry make any personal sacrifices in Book 7 to help protect the Dursleys? Will this help him and them to feel greater love for each other? [20:51] <DumbleDebbie> that would be huge for Perce [20:51] <CarpeDiem> In Jo's sense does redemption necessarily mean a chance for life when there was death or vice versa? Did she redeem the person by killing them off or letting them live? Was she clear abnout it? [20:52] <hpaddict> Not a CHANCE [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he might if the situation arises [20:52] <DumbleDebbie> wow, if he did, they would probably just resent him more [20:52] <Kelgadis> Petunia maybe. Dudley and Vernon? no. [20:52] *** matilda has quit [Bye] [20:52] <nympheart> I think Petunia may sacrifice for Harry, but not her life [20:52] <fawkes28> i think he will want them to be safe [20:52] <DumbleDebbie> unless they've been faking the hate thing all these years [20:52] <Kelgadis> yeha [20:52] <nympheart> Harry already saved Dudley once [20:52] <hpaddict> More than meet the eye means she has info and a letter for Harry [20:52] <Aislinn> I think he will protect them somehow - maybe by bringing them to Grimmauld Place [20:52] <hpaddict> beyond that [20:52] <hpfan1970> i don't know,but i can't see him sitting by and letting them die,i mean,he wouldn't even let sirius and lupin kill peter when they had the chance,harry's too honorable [20:52] <Wierdgirl5834> The dursleys?! are you kidding me?! [20:52] <hpaddict> bye bye dursley [20:52] <memyslfnI> No, aislinn, I don't think so..he is a pest to them..Nothing harry will do will ever please the durlsys [20:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think they will die, and harry will feel awful, despite their nastiness [20:52] <fawkes28> he won't just leave them there for Voldy to come AK them [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> it ties into my whole "The Dursleys are going to end up in GP" theory [20:52] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah good one fawkes [20:52] *** matilda has joined #lounge [20:52] <Pleshette> yeah I could see harry protecting them [20:53] <CarpeDiem> The Dursleys would have to show an amazing turn around for Harry to sacrifice himself in any way for them. [20:53] * nympheart has a fun time picturing the Dursleys with Mrs. Black [20:53] <memyslfnI> He does have a "saving people thing" [20:53] <Wierdgirl5834> but harry has too much love inside of him even for the dursleys sdying [20:53] <Kelgadis> I can see him saving them because of his "saving people thing" [20:53] <DumbleDebbie> he did fight to protect Dudley already in OotP [20:53] <fawkes28> Harry would not be the person he is if he just left them at Privet Drive for Voldy to come and kill them [20:53] <Kelgadis> wow me [20:53] <Kelgadis> I was just saying that [20:53] <Aislinn> he won't doit to please them, M, just because he wouldn' let anything bad happen to his mother's family [20:53] <hpaddict> he would do what was right [20:53] <hpaddict> he helped dudders [20:53] <Pleshette> I agree Debbie [20:53] <hpaddict> in the alley [20:53] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah weel Harry was also protecting himslef with the dementor [20:53] <Aislinn> exactly hpaddict [20:53] <memyslfnI> and if he does, they will blame him anyway [20:53] <fawkes28> no matter what the dursleys did to Harry - he will protect them [20:53] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry is not the type of guy to stand aside and let anyone die [20:54] <hpfan1970> exactly [20:54] <Kelgadis> right [20:54] <Pleshette> Exactly [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> no he's not [20:54] <CarpeDiem> Good point Sooner [20:54] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah too much love, baby [20:54] <fawkes28> because it all comes back to people's choices - and harry will always choose to help [20:54] <Kelgadis> yup [20:54] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah [20:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think he'll fight, but they'll still die... it'll set the tone for the book [20:54] <matilda> and, he's choosing not to let anyone else stand between him and LV [20:54] <fawkes28> cause that's how Harry rolls laugh [20:54] <Wierdgirl5834> oh jeez [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:54] <Wierdgirl5834> lol [20:54] <futureweasley> the Dursleys need some just desserts [20:54] <Kelgadis> ^_^ [20:54] <futureweasley> death is NOT an option [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> pudding anyone? [20:54] <Kelgadis> lol!! [20:54] <Wierdgirl5834> Petunia, hmmmm i wonder about her [20:54] <CarpeDiem> Mmm pudding! smile [20:55] <Wierdgirl5834> strange [20:55] <Pleshette> And perhaps he will have to step up to protect Draco...I think that would be harder than the Dursleys [20:55] <CarpeDiem> Dursley pudding! smile [20:55] <Kelgadis> but he would do it [20:55] <nympheart> blah! [20:55] <Aislinn> Harry wasn't able to open the love room in the Ministry of Magic. Could sacrificial love somehow be the key to unlocking this door without having an Unspeakable or some other Ministry official do it? [20:55] <DumbleDebbie> yes, that would be Pleshette, and Draco would hate it [20:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think it'd be easier, now that Draco has his pity [20:55] <SoonerGryffindor> yes! [20:55] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:55] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:55] <nympheart> I think Love is the key [20:55] <hpfan1970> maybe the love room could kill Voldy [20:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> love is the key to love? [20:55] <DumbleDebbie> I have no idea how that door will be opened [20:55] <hpfan1970> since he couldn't stand to be in harry and feel those feelings [20:55] <Wierdgirl5834> no because he's already sacrificed a lot of things and he still couldn't open the door [20:55] <SoonerGryffindor> I totally think that may be the only way to open that room [20:56] <memyslfnI> could be! like only a parsal mouth could open the chamber. Only someone completely filled with love can open the room! [20:56] <nympheart> it makes sense to me, chocolate [20:56] <Aislinn> I think love is the key to the love room chocolate [20:56] <fawkes28> voldemort will never be able to get into the room because he cannot love [20:56] <CarpeDiem> Harry has made stranger things happen smile [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> lol carpe [20:56] <Pleshette> It has to be that Aislinn! smile [20:56] <nympheart> Love is something ultimate, there is no real step before it, it is itself [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think he has to sing some david cassidy to get in there... "i think i love you... so what am i so afraid of?" [20:56] <CarpeDiem> lol Aislinn chocolate? - Did you have a Happy Valenteins Day? [20:56] <Aislinn> just like love cannot be forced, the room can not be forces - you just have to be open to love and it allows you in [20:56] <Kelgadis> I love that there is something in Potterdom called "The Love Room" [20:56] * DumbleDebbie dreads the singing that is bound to start now [20:56] <memyslfnI> oooh! Aislinn! [20:56] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah in my fanfiction story that i posted todat, it was a Voldy story, Harry pushed Voldy through the love room and he died [20:56] <memyslfnI> I like that [20:57] <Pleshette> lol Ais, I thought you meant chocolate was the key to the love room lololol [20:57] <matilda> love kills? [20:57] <Kelgadis> All you need is love! [20:57] <Aislinn> LOL [20:57] * fawkes28 sings All You Need is Love [20:57] * nympheart begins singing "Without Love" from Hairspray [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that I was the key to the love room? [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> ooo, death by chocolate, love it [20:57] <hpfan1970> lol [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :-P [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> lol [20:57] <nympheart> like a circle with no center, like a door marked "Do Not Enter!" [20:57] <Aislinn> yes, I guess that was confusing laugh [20:57] * SoonerGryffindor starts looking for the bucket [20:57] <CarpeDiem> Doh! I saw chocolate and thought that someone's love of choclate (the food) was the key to opening the door. [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> Bwhahaha!!! [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> god, i hope the 7th book is just a medley of love songs [20:58] * CarpeDiem apologizes for any confusion smile [20:58] <Pleshette> Me too carpe! LOL [20:58] <Wierdgirl5834> we need John noe for this [20:58] * DumbleDebbie hands Sooner a 5 gallon pail [20:58] <hpaddict> *ick* [20:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha oh man [20:58] <fawkes28> Thanks for coming to the chat everyone smile [20:58] * nympheart flushes and sinks beneath her desk [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> great chat guys [20:58] <futureweasley> well guys this was a great chat! [20:58] <Aislinn> ok, folks, thanks for coming! This was a great chat smile [20:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thanks fawkes! [20:58] <Wierdgirl5834> he'll come up with the craziest ways for opening the love room [20:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it was great everyone! [20:59] <futureweasley> thanks for coming tonight! we'll see you this weekend [20:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thanks, mods! [20:59] <DumbleDebbie> bye hug [20:59] <Pleshette> Bye everyone! smile [20:59] <CarpeDiem> Thanks CB mods...great chat! [20:59] <NYBookworm> bye [20:59] <Kelgadis> that was fun! time for dinner! [20:59] <hpfan1970> bye [20:59] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [20:59] *** NYBookworm left #lounge [] [20:59] <nympheart> Mr. Blood will open the door [20:59] <SoonerGryffindor> thanks chatters [20:59] *** DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [20:59] <Kelgadis> lol nymph [20:59] <Wierdgirl5834> that should be next week's cannon conundrum, how to open the love room, [20:59] <memyslfnI> Happy Valentines day everyone! [20:59] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast sings "Suppertime" from You're a Good Man Charlie Brown [20:59] <Wierdgirl5834> Happy V-DAY! [20:59] <nympheart> well, Mr. Blood is fused with Love [20:59] *** CarpeDiem has quit [Bye] [20:59] <matilda> Happy V-day, yes [20:59] <hpaddict> thanks! [20:59] <fawkes28> see you next time! [20:59] *** hpaddict left #lounge [] [20:59] <Kelgadis> lol chocolte [20:59] <nympheart> bye guys! [20:59] <matilda> bye yall, sorry for the spotty attendence [21:00] *** hpfan1970 has quit [Bye] [21:00] *** matilda left #lounge [] [21:00] *** memyslfnI left #lounge [] [21:00] <Kelgadis> byeeee!! [21:00] <Wierdgirl5834> bye [21:00] *** Kelgadis has quit [Bye] [21:00] *** nympheart left #lounge [] [21:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> adios folkies! [21:00] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> hasta la bye bye [21:00] *** Wierdgirl5834 has quit [Bye] [21:00] <fawkes28> woo hoo |
|
|
|
