WWW Corner Booth Transcript: Feb 21, 2007, Dumbledore's Love for Harry |
 Feb 21 2007, 09:12 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter  Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner   |
Today's Moderators: Aislinn, fawkes28, Expelliarmas and futureweasley
[18:56] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [18:59] <fawkes28> we need chatters! [19:01] *** stewiegryf has joined #lounge [19:01] <fawkes28> hi stewie [19:01] *** cbm has joined #lounge [19:01] <stewiegryf> Hey future, fawkes! [19:01] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:01] <futureweasley> hi cbm [19:01] <futureweasley> hi stewie [19:01] <cbm> Hi everyone [19:01] <futureweasley> hi prongs [19:01] <fawkes28> hi cbm and prongs [19:01] <futureweasley> what's up?! [19:02] <ProngsPatronus> hey [19:02] <stewiegryf> not much. no close encounters of the police kind today [19:02] <ProngsPatronus> oh, not much, unfortunately [19:02] <futureweasley> no, the po-po stayed away from me today [19:02] <futureweasley> lol [19:02] *** danielk has joined #lounge [19:02] <futureweasley> hi daniel [19:02] <danielk> hello [19:02] <fawkes28> i see that stewie has been making fun of me in the GH - tsk tsk laugh [19:02] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:03] <fawkes28> hi aislinn [19:03] <ProngsPatronus> GH? [19:03] *** mode/#lounge [+o Aislinn] by Snuffles [19:03] <futureweasley> Great Hall [19:03] <stewiegryf> Me?! Never... [19:03] <fawkes28> sorry - Great Hall [19:03] <ProngsPatronus> ah [19:03] <futureweasley> it's the Reading Group common room [19:03] <Aislinn> hello folks smile [19:03] <ProngsPatronus> thank you [19:03] <stewiegryf> I'm almost as much an angel_not as you. [19:03] <ProngsPatronus> hey, Ais [19:03] <danielk> so the topic today is DD's love for harry? [19:03] <danielk> first time on this chat [19:03] <ProngsPatronus> *sigh* [19:04] <cbm> I am on chapt 22 of OotP, and there is plenty of info in there for DD and Harry [19:04] <danielk> well i spent a few minutes during the title release [19:04] <futureweasley> yes, we'll get started around :15 after, daniel [19:04] <futureweasley> and welcome! [19:04] <danielk> cool [19:04] <stewiegryf> Welcome danielk! [19:04] <fawkes28> LOL stewie [19:04] <danielk> i just listened to like 4 podcasts [19:04] <Aislinn> welcome danielk [19:04] <danielk> never heard about the pottercasts before lol [19:04] <fawkes28> i made a nice post on snape in my Reading Group for cbm to argue with me [19:04] <stewiegryf> And hey, I'm on your side of the fence for goodness sakes, fawkes. We need to stick together! [19:04] <cbm> when? [19:04] *** moody has joined #lounge [19:05] <futureweasley> hi moody [19:05] <fawkes28> yesterday [19:05] <fawkes28> in chapter 37 [19:05] <moody> hey all, just said i'd drop in for a bit an say hi! smile [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> I ventured into the rarified air of ethics in the book club [19:05] <fawkes28> i was in there too - it is craziness [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> Kant say [19:05] <moody> so its dd love for harry wer talkin bout yea? [19:05] <fawkes28> LOL [19:05] <danielk> smile [19:06] <fawkes28> yes moody [19:07] <moody> did anyone read the book that makes fun of harry potter, its called something like barry trotter...the relashionship between harry and dd is very, well lets just say its not for the kiddies!! ;) [19:07] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:07] <futureweasley> hi Punky [19:07] <Aislinn> hi punky [19:07] <Punky> Hey guys [19:07] <moody> hey punky [19:07] <stewiegryf> hey punky [19:07] <ProngsPatronus> sorry--I don't read slash fiction [19:07] <danielk> aloha [19:08] <danielk> i tried reading fan fic [19:08] <danielk> wasnt to fond of it [19:08] <danielk> im \sure there are some good ones though [19:08] <moody> haha..slash fiction...never heard of that!! [19:08] <ProngsPatronus> I prefer canon, meself [19:08] <danielk> ditto [19:08] <fawkes28> me too, prongs [19:08] <futureweasley> agreed Prongs [19:08] <Aislinn> canon rocks! [19:08] <Aislinn> it's why we're all here [19:08] <ProngsPatronus> :smile: [19:08] <futureweasley> lol [19:08] <futureweasley> yep, fell in love with those books [19:08] *** bananapeel has joined #lounge [19:09] <futureweasley> hi banana [19:09] <danielk> we should talk about how much DD loves harry in the movies [19:09] <danielk> he loves him so much [19:09] <bananapeel> hi [19:09] <moody> the book i was talkin bout (barry trotter) was a present, wouldnt have bought it meself, didnt even read it all! [19:09] <danielk> he strangles him :P [19:09] <ProngsPatronus> please don't get me started on Gambon! [19:09] <Aislinn> hi banana [19:09] <danielk> smile [19:09] <danielk> i think i just did lol [19:09] <danielk> ive read enough about gambon thouhg [19:09] <danielk> in imdb [19:10] <fawkes28> i rather rather have all the books and no movies [19:10] <moody> futerweasley, you talkin bout the barry trotter books? im sorry, cant keep up with this chat!! [19:10] <ProngsPatronus> me, too, fawkes [19:10] *** bananapeel has quit [Bye] [19:10] <stewiegryf> I think Gambon is an excellent version of Dumbledore...just not the one written about in the HP books. [19:10] <danielk> lets not get started with that [19:10] <danielk> even though i started it [19:10] <danielk> lol [19:10] <moody> oh i love that website, danielk....its great [19:10] <danielk> yeah just too many negative comments [19:10] <danielk> i remember a few days ago [19:10] <danielk> it was all [19:10] <cbm> I enjoy the movies, but love the books, so do not worry about them much [19:10] <danielk> "JK is a <censored> basher" [19:11] <danielk> or a racist [19:11] <danielk> too many of those things on imdb [19:11] <danielk> but i still go there smile [19:11] <Aislinn> daniel? [19:11] <futureweasley> *hem, hem* [19:11] <danielk> yo [19:11] <ProngsPatronus> how terrible! [19:11] <moody> gambon is too irish in it, and i am irish!! AN I STILL GIVIN OUT BOUT HIM [19:11] *** Ravenclaws_Heir has joined #lounge [19:11] <danielk> aislinn? [19:11] <fawkes28> no caps, remember smile [19:11] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi guys! [19:11] <danielk> ? [19:11] <cbm> gambon does not get the caring grandfatherly part of Dumbledore [19:11] <Aislinn> let's leave the comments from imdb over there smile [19:11] *** danielk has quit [Bye] [19:12] *** danielk has joined #lounge [19:12] <moody> A wat basher??? wat we talkin bout now?? [19:12] <futureweasley> and no swearing either...we will be discussing that shortly [19:12] <danielk> damnit [19:12] <danielk> i got disconnected again [19:12] <danielk> sorry [19:12] <danielk> i was just commenting on the dumb threads on imdb [19:12] <danielk> saying that rowling is a anti-<censored> and a racist [19:12] <danielk> but this inst the place smile [19:12] <Aislinn> right - this isn't the place [19:12] <danielk> lol [19:12] <cbm> On a different subject, my current job on my profile is "Cauldron Bottom Measurer", That is pretter good for a username of cbm [19:13] <futureweasley> sweet! [19:13] <moody> oh that kind of **** sickens me danielk [19:13] <fawkes28> nice cbm [19:13] <danielk> dont blame me [19:13] <Aislinn> pretty clever there, cbm [19:13] <danielk> i dont post in those dumb topics [19:13] <danielk> do these chats usually last the full time (never really been to one) [19:13] <Aislinn> yes daniel [19:13] <stewiegryf> Yes, daniel, they do. [19:13] <cbm> I really wish I could take credit, DumbleDebbie pointed it out to me yesterday [19:13] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yup, they always go pretty much to the exact time indicated [19:14] <danielk> cool [19:14] <moody> oh im not its just its bad that ya cant even write a good book without people complainin that your racist etc...people have nothin better to do!! [19:14] <danielk> i have that much time to spend smile [19:14] <danielk> i dont want to get booted, im not going to comment lol [19:14] <futureweasley> ok guys, are you ready to talk Dumbledore and his love for Harry?! [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> yes! [19:14] <cbm> yes [19:14] <fawkes28> yes!! [19:14] <stewiegryf> Eh [19:14] <danielk> been ready my whole life [19:14] <Aislinn> yes smile [19:14] <futureweasley> woot [19:14] <Ravenclaws_Heir> yes! [19:15] <futureweasley> let's get after it, then, shall we? [19:15] <stewiegryf> Let's go! [19:15] <moody> danielk..i like ur convo better!!:) but i dont wanna get booted either! [19:15] <danielk> and they're off [19:15] <danielk> lol [19:15] <futureweasley> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:15] <futureweasley> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:15] <futureweasley> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:16] <futureweasley> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:16] <futureweasley> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [19:16] <fawkes28> When Dumbledore heard the prophecy spoken by Sybill Trelawney, he knew that the chance was coming to defeat the Dark Lord. He watched and discovered that Lord Voldemort had chosen the Potter's son to mark as his equal, and began to plan out how best to aid and help shape this child to be capable of fulfilling his role in the prophecy. [19:16] <fawkes28> However, we hear from him at the end of the Order of the Phoenix, that he has not been carrying out these plans in quite the way he had thought. He says to Harry "Do you see, Harry? Do you see the flaw in my brilliant plan now? I had fallen into the trap I had foreseen, that I had told myself that I could avoid, that I must avoid." [19:16] <fawkes28> "I cared about you too much. I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act." [19:16] <fawkes28> Is there a defence? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have....not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed that I would have such a person on my hand." [19:16] <fawkes28> The love that Dumbledore expresses for Harry in this passage is deep and abiding. Let's explore this love a little tonight. [19:17] <fawkes28> Based on Dumbledore's quote that was just stated in the introduction, why do you think Dumbledore loves Harry in the way he describes? [19:16] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:16] *** Greeneyes15 has joined #lounge [19:17] *** Wierdgirl5834 has joined #lounge [19:17] <danielk> i recently listened to one of the pottercast's [19:17] <ProngsPatronus> because Harry is all that he had hoped [19:17] <danielk> and in there they had a theory that [19:17] <danielk> harry was at godric's hallow that night [19:17] <fawkes28> this is one of my favorite quotes that dumbledore said [19:17] <moody> dd is more of a father figure to harry, like gandalf was to frodo [19:17] <danielk> went back in time i guess [19:17] <cbm> I think it is Harry's goodness he recognizes [19:17] <fawkes28> it makes me cry everytime i read it [19:17] <danielk> and saw what happened [19:17] <ProngsPatronus> me, too, fawkes [19:17] <danielk> so he told DD about that [19:18] <danielk> that could be why DD cares so much for harry [19:18] <danielk> that he knows harry is there in the end [19:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha, keep it all together danielk... makes it easier for us to read! :-D [19:18] <Greeneyes15> because harry had been throw so much and yet he's still the person DD hoped he'd be [19:18] <danielk> sorry lol [19:18] <Ravenclaws_Heir> me too, fawkes and prongs [19:18] <danielk> im use to chatting on icq :P [19:18] <Wierdgirl5834> hey peeps! sorry i just got back looking at the pictures of the young marauders and i am not so impressed with james's look....so what're you all talking about [19:18] <ProngsPatronus> I think that the master, DD, learned something from the student, Harry [19:18] <stewiegryf> I think that DD did care a little too much for Harry. He knew what Harry would eventually have to do and he tried to protect him for as long as he could, perhaps a little too long. [19:18] <fawkes28> dumbledore's love for harry is the topic [19:18] <moody> danielk dont enter ur text till youve finished ur sentance [19:18] <Wierdgirl5834> okay [19:18] <danielk> ok [19:18] <futureweasley> well, I think that Dumbledore may have had children, and sees Harry as his opportunity to still be a father or a grandfather...to instill his beliefs and ability to love and think logically [19:19] <fawkes28> and i think he realized that, stewie [19:19] <Aislinn> that's a nice way of looking at it, prongs [19:19] <ProngsPatronus> Dumbledore is all about love for the WW [19:19] <Wierdgirl5834> dumbledore have children.....*smirks* [19:19] <futureweasley> yes he is Prongs [19:19] <ProngsPatronus> Harry is all about just...love [19:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think that DD might've been nervous that Harry would turn out like Voldemort, to a degree... a toddler with so much potential... I believe that when Harry proved himself in Year 1 is when Dumbledore realized how brave Harry was, and began to see Harry's future and began to care about his feelings [19:19] <fawkes28> definitely and that is why we love him so much [19:19] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [19:19] <fawkes28> hi expie [19:19] <moody> sorry, i seem a bit too harsh there danielk, love ya really teeheesmile [19:19] <Aislinn> hi expie [19:19] <danielk> lol [19:19] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi expie [19:20] <danielk> no hard feelings smile [19:20] *** mode/#lounge [+o Expelliarmas] by Snuffles [19:20] <ProngsPatronus> DD learns a personal love from Harry that profoundly changes the way DD views things [19:20] <Expelliarmas> heya peeps [19:20] <Wierdgirl5834> hey [19:20] <moody> so daniel....how u doin [19:20] <danielk> I dont know about that prongs, DD seems to always have been the primary advocate of love... [19:20] <futureweasley> I agree with that Chocolate [19:20] <Aislinn> do you think this type of love was new for him, at his age, Prongs? [19:20] <fawkes28> you are right prongs, harry teaches him as well [19:20] <ProngsPatronus> yes, I do [19:20] <Wierdgirl5834> dumbledore and harry have a special bond together [19:21] <Greeneyes15> testhey do [19:21] <ProngsPatronus> there are differing kinds of love [19:21] <Wierdgirl5834> true [19:21] <ProngsPatronus> we can always learn more [19:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I wonder if Dumbledore, in his many many wizard years, has ever connected with anyone else on this level? [19:21] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well, I'm not sure that DD learned personal love from Harry, Prongs. JKR has said that DD's family would be a "profitable line of inquiry", and being the loving person he is I doubt that Harry could be the first person he ever loved... [19:21] <danielk> Maybe you are right in the sense that, DD never really had that strong of a love for an individual person, so maybe Harry was the first, or maybe the most recent person [19:21] <Wierdgirl5834> who wants to list em? [19:21] <fawkes28> Do you think that Dumbledore felt this way about Harry from the time that he dropped him on the Dursleys doorstep? Why or why not? [19:21] <Wierdgirl5834> felt what way? [19:21] <Greeneyes15> i think so [19:21] <ProngsPatronus> no, I don't [19:22] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well...the movie certainly portrayed DD as loving Harry in that scene... [19:22] <Greeneyes15> i think htat Harry was special to him fron the very beging [19:22] <fawkes28> I think he has always loved Harry but I think it has grown stronger with time [19:22] <Expelliarmas> I think he felt pity for him initially but grew to love him once he got to know him [19:22] <Ravenclaws_Heir> But the book is less clear [19:22] <cbm> No, I think that it grew over time after Harry got to Hogwarts [19:22] <stewiegryf> I don't think so. I think this feeling grew after he got to know Harry and saw what he did from his first year in Hogwarts. [19:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I don't believe so... I think that he was very set in his plans. if he cared about harry to the same degree, he wouldn't have left him.. he was still at a point of following his brilliant plan [19:22] <futureweasley> well, wierd, the topic is "love"...do you think he felt love [19:22] <Greeneyes15> i agree fawks [19:22] <danielk> He might have, maybe he felt sorry or felt pitty because of the tragety that harry endored at such a young age, and maybe he was very fond of james and lily as well, so he had stronger feelings for harry [19:22] <ProngsPatronus> I think that the initial reaction was pity, yes--but also grief [19:22] <Wierdgirl5834> oh well course he did how can you not feel love for a cute baby? [19:22] <Aislinn> I would agree with that, fawkes - I think that he did love him, but not as deeply as he does later on [19:22] <ProngsPatronus> he had just lost Lily and James [19:23] <fawkes28> it was a different type of love initially - more of a caring type of love [19:23] <Greeneyes15> I wonder how ell he knew lily and james [19:23] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that DD would have felt some connection to Harry at the time, because he was the son of Lily and James. [19:23] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree fawkes [19:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he was carrying out the beginning of his plan, battling the emotions because he had to have JUST formed the plan, so he knew he couldn't love harry, so he blocked those feelings [19:23] <stewiegryf> I agree fawkes. More caring and compassion rather than a personal, deep love. [19:23] <moody> got it,, sorry [19:23] <Punky> Like any love, I think it had to grow when he first dropped him off. And he had a lot of time for it to change and the attachment to grow [19:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true, punky [19:23] <Greeneyes15> i agree punky [19:24] <cbm> I think if his love for Harry was that strong at the start, he would not have left him at the Dursleys for the "Hard Years" harry faced [19:24] <Wierdgirl5834> i think it grew most during harry's 6th year [19:24] <fawkes28> deep personal love takes time [19:24] <Wierdgirl5834> cuz they spent more time together [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> yes, it does [19:24] <futureweasley> I like that punky...he had the time to form it during all the times that they spent together [19:24] <Greeneyes15> i think DD felt something for harry first off, but since thenit has blossemed into the love DD has now for Harry [19:24] <fawkes28> that is an interesting thought, cbm [19:24] <Aislinn> I think he did try to keep a distance at first in the interest of the plan, yes chocolate [19:24] <moody> maybe when dd had the glint in his eye when harry told him bout voldy havin his blood now that ment dd couldnt protect him now, like his mother did [19:25] <Wierdgirl5834> true... [19:25] <danielk> silence [19:25] *** danielk has quit [Bye] [19:25] <Expelliarmas> pity first, then affection, then love--it required time to evolve [19:25] *** danielk has joined #lounge [19:25] <fawkes28> Was it a loving act to leave Harry with the Dursleys, knowing as McGonagall puts it, that it would not be possible to find two people less like wizarding folk? [19:25] <danielk> this is annoying me, i keep getting disconnected [19:25] <moody> silence?? [19:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe the missing 24 hours are due to Dumbledore trying to figure out what to do... in that instant, Dumbledore knew who the prophesy was intended for, and needed a long time to figure out what to do. [19:25] <Wierdgirl5834> well cuz of the protection [19:25] <Aislinn> the backspace button will sometimes do taht to you daniel [19:25] <Greeneyes15> i dont think DD left him there out of love, but rather for his plan [19:25] *** DeathlyHallower has joined #lounge [19:25] <cbm> No, I think it was the most dispassionate thing we have ever seen DD do [19:25] <Wierdgirl5834> voldy can't touch harry there so he put em there [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think that had aything to do with love, rather, necessity [19:26] <stewiegryf> I agree Prongs [19:26] <Aislinn> that's what I think as well prongs [19:26] <fawkes28> i think dumbledore did it because he wanted to protect him from the wizarding world [19:26] <Expelliarmas> not a loving act at first blush; but it had to be done to protect harry; so lily's sacrifice would mean something [19:26] <futureweasley> I don't think the Dumbledore intended Harry's upbringing to be as horrible as it was [19:26] <Greeneyes15> i agree to prongs [19:26] <danielk> it was silence for me, because i was disconnected lol [19:26] <danielk> this is weird, i cannot see my posts [19:26] <Wierdgirl5834> i wouldn't consider it love, but i would consider it something that he had no choice [19:26] <fawkes28> at the time, i think he was just looking out for harry's best interest [19:26] <stewiegryf> DD couldn't always be there to protect Harry and leaving him with the Dursleys would allow for the protection he needed. [19:26] <Aislinn> he saw it as the best way to keep Harry alive long enough to grow and develop into the chosen one [19:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree expelliarmas [19:26] <ProngsPatronus> had the Dursleys been different, I think he probably would have been better [19:26] *** DeathlyHallower has quit [Bye] [19:27] <ProngsPatronus> able to like his choice [19:27] <Aislinn> true [19:27] <moody> danielk, if u could write silence then ur not disconected!! [19:27] <Wierdgirl5834> it was cruel yet protective of dumbledork to do that [19:27] <danielk> does this chat freeze for everyone then? [19:27] <futureweasley> !kick moody [19:27] *** moody was kicked from #lounge by Snuffles [Requested] [19:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it wouldn't be a true hero's journey if he didn't have a hard childhood :-D Matilda syndrome [19:27] <Greeneyes15> it does for me sometimes danielk [19:27] <danielk> ok, thanks [19:28] <fawkes28> that is a good point, chocolate [19:28] <cbm> I think he was looking after the Wizarding world's best interest, and protection for harry was #1, not Harry being happy [19:28] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think cruelty entered into it [19:28] <Wierdgirl5834> well also the dursleys' made harry tough on the inside [19:28] <Greeneyes15> just press the refesh button and than may help [19:28] <fawkes28> which i think he tried to make up for later, cbm [19:28] <ProngsPatronus> DD had no way to know what the Dursleys were like before that night [19:28] <cbm> I agree Fawkes [19:28] <futureweasley> I think that DD saw stowing Harry away from the wizarding world for his first years of life was an act of love [19:28] <danielk> What i dont understand is why was it necessary for harry to be at the dursley, surely harry would have been safe in a wizards home, a powerful wizard [19:28] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah but prongs he had an idea of it [19:28] <Expelliarmas> if lily's sacrifice of love was to mean anything at all then harry had to stay with the dursleys [19:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, PP... Hagrid was surprised that Harry didn't know about his parents [19:28] <fawkes28> right, prongs, he didn't realize how terrible they would be [19:28] <cbm> After the ministry he said he knew Harry was in for some "Hard Years" [19:28] <Aislinn> good point, cbm, but I do think that his primary motivation was in continuing to protect Harry through the sacrifice that his mother made [19:28] <futureweasley> remember, DD missed out on those precious years, too [19:28] <danielk> I know the blood protection, but it just seemed unnecessary [19:29] <Expelliarmas> perhaps dd searched for some other relative of lily's to invoke the ancient magic [19:29] <Wierdgirl5834> naaah [19:29] <stewiegryf> I agree future. He thought he was protecting him from a childhood in the limelight that he would have faced in the wizarding world. [19:29] <Greeneyes15> i though harry had no other relitives [19:29] <ProngsPatronus> good point, future [19:29] <danielk> I guess that makes sense, not wanting harry to have a big head and think he is great and everything [19:29] <Greeneyes15> i agree stewie/future [19:29] <cbm> I wish I had my books with me, but the quote after the ministry leads me to believe that he knew beforehand that Harry would have a tough life [19:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe he felt harry wouldn't take his mission as seriously if harry grew up a celebrity? DD knew Voldemort wasn't defeated, and Harry needed to grow up away from it in order to appreciate it? [19:30] <danielk> makes sense [19:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> or, see it for how big it was? [19:30] <ProngsPatronus> well, two malfoys in the same year would have been a bit over the top, don't you think? grin [19:30] <Aislinn> he does talk about Petunia taking Harry grudgingly at that point, cbm [19:30] <fawkes28> he didn't want him to get arrogant which we know easily can cause mistakes *cough*voldemort*cough* [19:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha prongs [19:31] *** BrettMac has joined #lounge [19:31] <Wierdgirl5834> i don't think that limelight stuff is a Huge factor, but i think that the whole protection of voldemort was. Also the dursleys toughened harry up, see if harry ended up with someone else he's end up being like James [19:31] <BrettMac> whoo! sorry im late, everybody [19:31] <Greeneyes15> laugh fawkes [19:31] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [19:31] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi Brettmca [19:31] <Aislinn> hi folks [19:31] <Greeneyes15> hey bret and Debbie! [19:31] <DumbleDebbie> hiya [19:31] <danielk> couldnt it be argued that, if DD loved harry so much he would have told Harry everything, doesnt showing confidence and trust in someone show love as well as caring for their feelings [19:31] <Ravenclaws_Heir> HI DumbleDebbie [19:31] <BrettMac> so what topic are we on right now? [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> DD WAS going to tell Harry everything [19:31] <danielk> DD's love for harry [19:31] <stewiegryf> Hi brett and debbie [19:31] <Greeneyes15> DD love for harry [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's the whole issue [19:32] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah but dumbledork didn't tell harry everything [19:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he loved harry too much to tell him that he would have to be murdered, or be the murderer [19:32] <danielk> Right, but he didnt have confidence in harry in the sense that maybe he didnt think harry would be able to cope with that [19:32] <cbm> I think that putting Harry somewhere where the blood protection would work was the only issue [19:32] <BrettMac> but i mean whats the sub-topic...if thats what its called smile [19:32] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah but if you love someone you are honest to them [19:32] <DumbleDebbie> maybe he can't tell Harry everything b/c it would interfere with what Harry has tod do [19:32] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, Daniel. But remember Harry was only 11 when he came to Hogwarts. The fate of the wizarding world is a rather heavy burden for such a young child, don't you think? [19:32] <danielk> that is my point wierd [19:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think so too cbm [19:32] <fawkes28> Why do you think that Dumbledore did not try to intervene during Harry's early years at the Dursleys? Should he have tried to stop them treating him the way that they did? [19:32] <DumbleDebbie> Harry is, at this point, still very much a child [19:32] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, cbm [19:33] *** Pellinore has joined #lounge [19:33] <Wierdgirl5834> no he's 17, you all underestimate teenagers [19:33] <DumbleDebbie> hi pellinore [19:33] <fawkes28> hi pellinore [19:33] <cbm> If he knew, but we do not know if he knew [19:33] <danielk> it could be, i agree with that. But after voldemort returned, at the start of the fifth year, DD should have told him then [19:33] <Pellinore> evening smile [19:33] <danielk> OH wait, i get it now sorry [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think that keeping him alive was the overridiing concern during his formative years [19:33] <Expelliarmas> as previously stated, it did toughen him up and there were certain protections built in--Mrs. Figg did keep an eye on Harry [19:33] <BrettMac> no...i think the dursleys were part of the reason harry grew up so quick-witted, and emotionally tough [19:33] <futureweasley> yes Prongs... [19:33] <DumbleDebbie> yes, alive is the key [19:33] <danielk> DD was afraid voldy would use the connection between harry and DD and would see his thoughts [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> Harry was watched [19:33] <Greeneyes15> hey brb... [19:33] <Expelliarmas> I get the feeling there was a network watching harry [19:33] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has joined #lounge [19:33] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah alive [19:33] <fawkes28> it is not Dumbledore's still to intervene...that is not the way he rolls laugh [19:34] <Aislinn> hi TAD [19:34] <futureweasley> I totally agree...Harry's safety was crucial to DD's plan...and the safety of the WW as a whole [19:34] <TheAzkabanDietitian> hell everyone [19:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Well, maybe he was still trying to distnace himself... he knew harry couldn't come to too much harm because of his mother's protection, and probably stayed away... just like we stay away from animal shelters unless we're looking to adopt an animal... no use spending time with sad, pitiful animals if you're trying NOT to fall in love with them [19:34] *** Greeneyes15 has quit [Bye] [19:34] <TheAzkabanDietitian> *hello [19:34] <Wierdgirl5834> in Sorcerer's s stone he wanted harry alive [19:34] <DumbleDebbie> I think DD was afraid for Harry's safety not trying to protect himself in OotP [19:34] <ProngsPatronus> and that did take precedence over the Dursley's character [19:34] <DumbleDebbie> hey TAD [19:34] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well...as DD said in HBP, at least Harry wasn't as maltreated as Dudley. Harry was being supervised by Mrs. Figg in case things got too horrible, and his years with the Dursleys taught him what it was like to be the underdog. It kept him from getting too big headed when he found out that he was a celebrity. [19:34] <Aislinn> that's true, fawkes - he is not one to interfere in people's relationships with each other [19:34] <cbm> I think that Mrs. Figg has a good idea as to what was happening as she told Harry if she let him have fun at her house Harry would no longer be able to come there, so may DD did know what was happening [19:34] <futureweasley> DD has said that Harry's blood is more valuable than his own [19:34] *** Greeneyes15 has joined #lounge [19:34] <ProngsPatronus> however, I do not think that DD envisioned that the Dursleys would lie to Harry about his parents [19:34] <fawkes28> I think if Dumbledore had intervened, it may have made his situation worse [19:34] <Ravenclaws_Heir> wb Greeneyes [19:34] <stewiegryf> It wasn't necessary for him to intervene. We've seen him do that, as in OotP when he sends the howler. I think that he knew that Harry would be alright so he let him be. [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I agree Prongs [19:35] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, Prongs [19:35] <Greeneyes15> hey...sry bout that [19:35] <Wierdgirl5834> like i said he's end up like James and snape would hate him even more if he lived in a wizarding house [19:35] <futureweasley> no, I think your right Prongs...DD thought the Dursley's to be decent people. A mistake on DD's part [19:35] <Aislinn> it seemed as if he(and Hagrid) expected Harry to know a lot more by the time that Hagrid went to get him [19:35] <fawkes28> just look at how the dursley's reacted when harry was receiving the letters - it would have been a lot worse if DD had tried to intervene [19:35] <Wierdgirl5834> the howler was important though [19:35] <Expelliarmas> if DD intervenes directly, then Harry doesn't end up with the deep appreciation for being a wizard which he got when he turned 11 and found out he was "special". [19:35] <danielk> I dont think DD thought the dursley's to be decent [19:35] <BrettMac> he was watched, obviously, we know that. the question is how many were watching? [19:35] <Expelliarmas> Harry didnt see it as a right as Tom Riddle did [19:35] <danielk> wasnt he told what kind of muggles they were? [19:35] <Aislinn> it did make it much easier for him to leave home for the wizarding world, expie [19:35] <Ravenclaws_Heir> In fact, that always confused me. If DD knew that the Dursleys were lying to Harry about his parents, DD would have warned Hagrid about it before sending him to retrive Harry [19:36] <BrettMac> orry..im off-topic. grr. *hits self* [19:36] <ProngsPatronus> he is always trying to think the best of people [19:36] <Greeneyes15> i dont think he thought they'd be as bad as they were though danielk [19:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I ultimately believe that Dumbledore was trying to stay away - trying to distance himself so that he wouldn't love harry [19:36] <danielk> i agree green [19:36] <cbm> Right Prongs! [19:36] <Wierdgirl5834> the howler reminded petunia of "his last" that is why jkr put it in there [19:36] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [19:36] <fawkes28> hi pleshette [19:36] <futureweasley> hi Pleshette [19:36] <Aislinn> hi pleshette [19:36] <DumbleDebbie> hey Pleshette smile [19:36] <TheAzkabanDietitian> hi pleshette [19:36] <Ravenclaws_Heir> hi pleshette [19:36] <Expelliarmas> heya, pleshette [19:36] <BrettMac> hey pleshette! [19:36] <Greeneyes15> HEY PLESHETTE!! [19:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> sup plechettette [19:36] <stewiegryf> hey pleshette! [19:36] <fawkes28> Once Harry was at Hogwarts, he saw Dumbledore on a couple of isolated occasions. What role do you feel that Dumbledore was playing in Harry's life in these early years? [19:37] <Pleshette> Hi everyone! smile [19:37] <Greeneyes15> ;wave: [19:37] <Greeneyes15> :wave: [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> watcher [19:37] <DumbleDebbie> he was watching over him, he said so [19:37] <Wierdgirl5834> he was an onlooker [19:37] <ProngsPatronus> I think he was taking the measure of Harry [19:37] <ProngsPatronus> testing his tempering [19:37] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I think he was allowing Harry to make his own way in the wizarding world [19:37] <BrettMac> he was a real guardian, watching out for him behind his back. he wanted to see how well ahrry could cope with things before bringing him into actual danger [19:37] <DumbleDebbie> I also think he orchestrated some things, particuarly in PS to give Harry some training [19:37] <Aislinn> I think he stepped in occasionally as a mentor as well [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he was seeing how close to Voldemort harry had turned out... He knew that Harry had some of Voldemort's powers... he wanted to see Harry's character [19:37] <TheAzkabanDietitian> When he thought Harry was being led astray [19:37] *** danielk has quit [Bye] [19:37] <Pleshette> Yes, watching, seeing how he would act in certain situations, what kinds of decisions he would make [19:37] <stewiegryf> I agree Debbie. [19:38] <fawkes28> i think he was observing harry - trying to figure out his strengths and his weaknesses since he already knew the prophecy [19:38] *** danielk has joined #lounge [19:38] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think he was watching over Harry far more that Harry was aware of. DD knew that Harry would some day have to defeat LV, and he wanted to get an idea of what kind of person the boy was. [19:38] <danielk> froze again [19:38] <stewiegryf> Summing him up from afar. [19:38] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Yes, fawkes, I think he was studying his character [19:38] <futureweasley> try clearing your cache and your cookies, Daniel [19:38] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, Aislinn, that he also tried to be a mentor at times (mirror or erised) [19:38] <danielk> ok [19:38] <ProngsPatronus> DD said that he had watched Harry more closely than Harry knew [19:38] <Greeneyes15> I agree pleshette [19:38] <Aislinn> yes, ravenclaws, I agree [19:38] <Greeneyes15> hello? can you see me? [19:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think his biggest part was when he told harry to stay away from the Mirror of Erised - to not dwell on dreams and really live [19:38] <stewiegryf> Yes greeneyes, we see you. [19:38] <danielk> i can see you green [19:38] <DumbleDebbie> i see you green [19:38] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yeah, we can see you greeneyes [19:38] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD can be invisible after all... makes you wonder WHEN he was watching over Harry [19:38] <BrettMac> true chocolate [19:38] <Greeneyes15> wow, computers slow...sry [19:39] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah plus according to that theory of harry being the one at the night in godric's hollow and him telling dumbledore, dumbledore knows that harry is going to be alright and live atleast till 17 because of that. So he lets harry do all those dangers. [19:39] <DumbleDebbie> I think he was a lot TAD [19:39] <fawkes28> i am sure he was watching harry a lot, TAD [19:39] <danielk> that is assuming that theory is correct weird [19:39] <Aislinn> I think he was watching over him through other means, TAD - the portraits around Hogwarts for one [19:39] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah i am pretty sure the theory is right [19:39] <DumbleDebbie> for instance I think DD was in the RoR with the Mirror every time Harry was there [19:39] <Greeneyes15> watchin harry like a hawk lol! [19:39] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Ooh, I haven't heard that one before Aislinn [19:39] <danielk> it does sound pretty good smile [19:40] <Greeneyes15> interstin Aislinn [19:40] <Expelliarmas> I agree, Aislinn. DD had quite a few ways to keep track of Harry [19:40] <ProngsPatronus> I agree--although the portraits would have watched him on their own, I think--the Boy Who Lived? [19:40] <BrettMac> he was watching all the time, i guess. when you think about it, an invisible person in this seires could be anywhere, anytime. [19:40] <futureweasley> I have to agree that the portraits likely helped to inform DD about what was going on at the Dursleys [19:40] <Aislinn> and the ghosts [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he seems a little too busy to watch him ALL the time [19:40] <TheAzkabanDietitian> But wouldn't DD trust Harry enough to take things on alone without his watchful eye? [19:40] <futureweasley> I'm sure that there is a portrait there that is watching the Dursleys full time [19:40] <Greeneyes15> but poteriats seemto be used by DD for that [19:40] <TheAzkabanDietitian> He's in London enough [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I'd agree with that TAD [19:40] <Greeneyes15> watchin people [19:40] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I never thought about DD using the portraits and the Ghosts before, but it would make sense [19:40] <Greeneyes15> he did with harry at 12 grim [19:40] <Pellinore> Portraits, Invisible Pheonix Fawkes, Spells cast on the invisibility cloak, ghosts etc. [19:40] <TheAzkabanDietitian> A portrait at the Dursley's... interesting [19:40] <Aislinn> I think, as others have said, that it had as much to do with him taking Harry's measure as it did keeping a watchful eye [19:40] <danielk> Wouldnt the dursley noticed the portait? [19:40] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think it was a matter of trust at that point [19:40] <TheAzkabanDietitian> but I think Harry would have found it by now [19:40] <fawkes28> i think maybe in the hallway or during class but i dont think DD ever went into the Gryffindor common area invisible [19:41] <Wierdgirl5834> a portrait at the dursleys.......riiiiight [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> Harry was going to school with the sons and daughters of DE's [19:41] <Expelliarmas> the portraits would help out DD and satisfy their own curiousity [19:41] <fawkes28> DD respects people's privacy [19:41] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think they meant at #4PD daniel [19:41] *** Joyhawk2121 has joined #lounge [19:41] <danielk> oh i c [19:41] <DumbleDebbie> hi joy [19:41] <Greeneyes15> i agree fawkes...i like the portrai tidea [19:41] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Yes, I think so too Fawkes [19:41] <DumbleDebbie> at school though [19:41] <Greeneyes15> hi joy [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, fawkes [19:41] <Ravenclaws_Heir> hi joy [19:41] <Pleshette> I think he watched to see who Harry would befriend at Hogwarts as well, [19:41] <TheAzkabanDietitian> JKR has said that he is a very distant person after all [19:41] <Joyhawk2121> hello everyone [19:42] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree fawkes [19:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> hey joy! [19:42] <danielk> well it seems logical, didnt DD have phileas watch harry at some point in grimmauld [19:42] <BrettMac> he obviously doesnt respect it enough to keep himself from putting guards outside harrys house [19:42] <Pleshette> Who he would put his trust in [19:42] <Wierdgirl5834> just asking do you guys think dumbledore knew that Harry and Ginny were dating at the end of 6th year? [19:42] <DumbleDebbie> that's interesting Pleshette [19:42] <Aislinn> ooh, I think you're right pleshette [19:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Yes, daniel but that was during the time that he couldn't watch over Harry at all really [19:42] <Pellinore> People hire body guards and still have some privacy or agreements with the guards. [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hmmm good question weirdgirl [19:42] <fawkes28> i think it made him pleased to know that he chose the right friends [19:42] <Ravenclaws_Heir> No, but thats different than inside the common room, brett [19:42] <BrettMac> but harry didnt know about mrs figg watching over himm [19:42] <Expelliarmas> well, phineas had a portrait at hogwarts and at #12 and was duty bound to help the current headmaster [19:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I think DD new that WG [19:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it seems like he'd know - he didn't let on that he knew about Cho at all, but surely he would have known [19:43] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree fawkes. To bad he couldn't see the incident with Draco smile [19:43] <fawkes28> In Philosopher's Stone/Sorcerer's Stone, Dumbledore approaches Harry as he sits in front of the Mirror of Erised and insists that he stop visiting it. Was this a loving act? Why or why not? [19:43] <Ravenclaws_Heir> On the train, I mean [19:43] <DumbleDebbie> yes [19:43] <Pellinore> age old debate over what's invasion of privacy and what's needed for a safe society [19:43] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Of course [19:43] <danielk> well the whole school knew about cho, and ginny [19:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> called this one! [19:43] <BrettMac> ill be right back smile [19:43] <Pleshette> Yes it was [19:43] <danielk> i find it hard to believe the headmaster couldnt find out lol [19:43] <ProngsPatronus> yes--I think that was a loving act [19:43] <stewiegryf> Yes, he wanted Harry to get on with his life. [19:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think it was his first [19:43] <fawkes28> I think Dumbledore was waiting for the right moment to approach Harry [19:43] <DumbleDebbie> it taught Harry a very important life lesson [19:43] <Expelliarmas> yes, as Harry needed to get on with his life [19:43] <cbm> I think it was [19:43] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I think he was saddened about the situation, but he did what was best for Harry [19:43] <Greeneyes15> yes i think so too [19:43] <fawkes28> and this was the perfect opportunity to get to know Harry and develop a relationship with him [19:43] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, it was for Harrys own good. And I am just so touched every time I read it by the sensitivity and honesty with which DD explains to Harry why he must stop visiting it [19:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it was the first time he knew what harry really desired, and when it wasn't power, he knew for sure that Harry was so far from Voldemort... Voldemort would NEVER see those things in the mirror [19:44] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I know it would be difficult if I had to step in [19:44] <Aislinn> I think it was an important life lesson that Dumbledore taught Harry here, and that it was a very loving act [19:44] <Expelliarmas> and it seems he might have told Hagrid about it because Hagrid presented Harry with a picture book of his parents at the end of PS/ss [19:44] <Wierdgirl5834> well one is because he would become addicted to it like a cigarette.....the mirror of erised is like nicotine the way dumbeldore puts it [19:44] <fawkes28> because this is their first real meeting - Dumbledore is probably even more curious about Harry than Harry is about him at this point [19:44] <stewiegryf> It was nice in that he let him look on a few occasions and then at the right time, DD helped Harry move on. [19:44] <Pleshette> He allowed Harry the time he needed to be with his parents' images but stepped in when Harry needed to move on [19:44] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Interesting Expie, I like that idea [19:44] <Pleshette> Right stewie [19:44] <danielk> well i gotta go, time to study lol [19:44] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, Stewie [19:44] <stewiegryf> smile We're on the same page [19:44] <danielk> cya later [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> there was a danger that Harry would get seduced by the ability of magic to simulate the family he lost. DD saved him from that trap, when it was obvious he was giving up time with his friends to sit in front of the mirror [19:44] <DumbleDebbie> bye daniel [19:45] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Bye Daniel [19:45] <Wierdgirl5834> yep [19:45] <Expelliarmas> bye dk [19:45] *** danielk has quit [Bye] [19:45] <Pleshette> Very true Prongs [19:45] <TheAzkabanDietitian> agreed prongs [19:45] *** huebbe has joined #lounge [19:45] <Ravenclaws_Heir> good point, prongs. [19:45] <fawkes28> true prongs - harry was not able to help himself at the time [19:45] <DumbleDebbie> hi huebbe [19:45] <huebbe> hi all! [19:45] <Pleshette> Hi huebbe [19:45] <TheAzkabanDietitian> hey huebbe [19:45] <Aislinn> yes, prongs - it was quickly becoming addictive for him [19:45] <Joyhawk2121> hello [19:45] <huebbe> sorry i'm late [19:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if dumbledore intended Harry to find it, too... so that harry could get the stone... he'd need to give harry the run-down on how the mirror worked [19:45] <Expelliarmas> see y'all later [19:45] <Wierdgirl5834> like a cigarette as i said earlier [19:45] <Aislinn> hi huebbe [19:46] <DumbleDebbie> np huebbe, folks come and go [19:46] <TheAzkabanDietitian> bye expie [19:46] *** Expelliarmas left #lounge [] [19:46] <Pleshette> Bye expie! [19:46] <huebbe> yes...but i love the chat! [19:46] <huebbe> what is the topic? [19:46] <DumbleDebbie> lol [19:46] <fawkes28> he saw it as a good life lesson - one that harry needed at the time [19:46] <Aislinn> we are talking about DD and his love for Harry [19:46] <huebbe> ooooo...great topic [19:46] <Aislinn> right now about the Mirror of Erised incident [19:46] <huebbe> ah [19:47] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Good point, chocolate. Though...I'm not sure if I agree with the theory that DD planned for Harry to save the stone [19:47] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I wonder if DD has a similar image in the MoE... loved ones he's lost [19:47] <fawkes28> Did you see any signs of love for Harry demonstrated by Dumbledore at the end of PS/SS? What were those? [19:47] <ProngsPatronus> and, as it happened, it was immensely important that Harry bwe inured to the images he saw in the Mirror [19:47] <Greeneyes15> well, i think i'm gonna get going guys...american idol starts in a little but and i can't miss it! [19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> a bit off topic: do you think he was lying when he said he saw socks? [19:47] <Greeneyes15> see yas! bye1 [19:47] <Wierdgirl5834> guys just out of curiousity what do you think Harry would see now in the mirror of erised? [19:47] <DumbleDebbie> he was sitting by his bedside when he woke [19:47] <huebbe> yes chocolate [19:47] <stewiegryf> bye greeneyes! [19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> just wondering smile [19:47] <Pleshette> Bye greeneyes! [19:47] <BrettMac> yes. the socks thing was dd's first an only lie hes ever told tongue [19:47] <futureweasley> Evidently, DD said that he would never lie to Harry in the first book [19:48] <huebbe> bye greeneys [19:48] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well...the biggest one we don't even find out about until OoTP. When He didn't tell Harry about the Prophecy [19:48] <DumbleDebbie> I think he saw socks, and they represent something important for him [19:48] <futureweasley> so, I would say the socks were legit [19:48] <Wierdgirl5834> there you go [19:48] <BrettMac> like a horcrux? :o [19:48] <DumbleDebbie> they're a symbol of normalcy [19:48] *** Greeneyes15 has quit [Bye] [19:48] <Wierdgirl5834> no [19:48] <Pleshette> I think he may have seen socks too [19:48] <cbm> agreed Fw, he just refused to answer sometimes [19:48] *** thepurest91 has joined #lounge [19:48] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I'm still undecided about the socks. I have a hunch that we may find out in DH [19:48] <DumbleDebbie> or possibly a reminder of a lost wife [19:48] <BrettMac> lol sock puppet horcruxes... [19:48] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Well, DD said that he would keep information from Harry for that time, but he never lied [19:48] <ProngsPatronus> like comfort, and someone seeing DD the person, rather than DD the headmaster [19:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think that telling him about the mirror, telling him about his mother's love, and being there when he woke were all signs of love [19:48] <huebbe> hmmm...socks are a re occuring motif although [19:48] <Wierdgirl5834> But yeah what would you think Harry would see in the mirror of ersied?.... [19:48] <Wierdgirl5834> like now [19:49] *** thepurest91 has quit [Bye] [19:49] <Pleshette> Yes Prongs, a life without the burdens and worries that he has carried [19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> snogging ginny [19:49] <Ravenclaws_Heir> lol huebbe. Doooby is freeee [19:49] <Wierdgirl5834> LOL! [19:49] <huebbe> YES! [19:49] <fawkes28> i think by the end of PS that DD felt a lot of love for harry - they had developed a nice relationship over the year [19:49] <BrettMac> lol [19:49] <DumbleDebbie> but back to the end of PS/SS... Dumbledore was sitting in the hospital wing when Harry awoke [19:49] <ProngsPatronus> or just someone that had broken through to the inner Albus [19:49] <DumbleDebbie> I have a feeling he'd been there throughout Harry's unconscious days [19:49] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree DumbleDebbie [19:49] <Wierdgirl5834> i think harry would see himself defeating voldy and then go marry ginny [19:49] <huebbe> oh yes, I think he has always been there [19:49] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD talking about love is just so odd when I reflect though, because for all the time we've known him he's never had that equal like Ginny with Harry... perhaps he's was hoping for Harry to be his equal? [19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe he was pulling memories out of harry while he was sleeping, and watched what happened [19:50] <BrettMac> yeah, i got that feeling too. like he was a sort of...guardian angel while harry was in the hospital [19:50] <huebbe> yes... [19:50] <DumbleDebbie> I think he has TAD. remember the guy is 150 yrs old [19:50] <stewiegryf> I don't think so chocoloate. I don't think he'd do that without Harry's permission [19:50] <huebbe> Harry usually awakes to DD [19:50] <Pleshette> Well, we don't know if DD has had that kind of love in the past [19:50] <Wierdgirl5834> harry to be his equal?.......what? [19:50] <Pleshette> I think he may have at one time [19:50] <DumbleDebbie> I think his family was killed by Grindelwald, but that's for another chat [19:50] <futureweasley> ok, back to the question at hand... [19:50] <cbm> Maybe in addition to caring about Harry he may of felt guilty for what happened [19:50] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, DumbleDebbie. In fact, I have a theory that he was a one point marryed [19:50] <Ravenclaws_Heir> **married [19:51] <fawkes28> Do you think it was favoritism on Dumbledore's part when he awarded all those House points to Harry and his friends at the end of PS/SS? [19:51] <BrettMac> and grendaline... grindelwald's wife [19:51] <Wierdgirl5834> lol [19:51] <BrettMac> yes, lol [19:51] <huebbe> DD is always the grandfatherly figure to Harry explaining the events [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> I think he felt the first bit of personal love for harry at that time--seeing how well Harry had done, and Harry passing the "test" that DD had set for acquiring the Stone [19:51] <DumbleDebbie> I think they more than earned them [19:51] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Absolutely [19:51] <cbm> somewhat, but they deserved them [19:51] <huebbe> yes [19:51] <Wierdgirl5834> Mcgonagall and Dumbledore 4life! [19:51] <DumbleDebbie> I love that it's Neville who puts Gryff over the top [19:51] <BrettMac> the points were a way of stickin it to the man--the man being slytherin, of course [19:51] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [19:51] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:51] <fawkes28> i think that Harry truly deserved it - i mean who else could survive what the trio did [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> I think they earned them several times over [19:51] <Aislinn> me too, debbie [19:51] <stewiegryf> I think it may have been a bit of favoritism, but like cbm says, they deserved them. [19:51] <huebbe> I thought it was sooooo swade...spelling [19:51] <Aislinn> it was just the confidence booster he needed [19:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :( what's the question [19:51] <Pleshette> They more than earned those points...all 4 of them [19:51] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD is a Gryffindor, but I have to admit, the gang did deserve those points [19:51] <huebbe> agreed, though earned. [19:52] <Aislinn> that's very true Pleshette [19:52] *** Punky has quit [Bye] [19:52] <fawkes28> I also think that DD wanted Harry to be happy and this definitely added to harry's happiness [19:52] <Wierdgirl5834> No dumbeldore is fair, and the trio and neville deserved them [19:52] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well...a bit. Saving the stone really has very little to do with house points, but since they saved the wizarding world I don't think it was really unreasonable. [19:52] <Joyhawk2121> yeah they earned those points [19:52] <huebbe> is it off the topic to ask how DD knew about Neville's part? [19:52] <Wierdgirl5834> Hermione told him [19:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think it was mean of Dumbledore to let Slytherin think they'd won [19:52] <fawkes28> I honestly think that they deserved more points so I do think that Dumbledore was being as objective as he could [19:52] <cbm> It did make up for the 150 they lost earlier in the year [19:52] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'm pretty sure Slytherin didn't deserve to win... but I could be biased [19:52] <futureweasley> it is a bit, huebbe [19:52] <Wierdgirl5834> probably [19:52] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think DD would rig the house compeition results just to make Harry happy. that's not the DD I know [19:52] <huebbe> or does it prove DD is everywhere? [19:52] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I always wondered about that huebbe [19:52] <Aislinn> I kind of thought that the number of points they got was also a commentary on the points they were docked when they sent Norbert on his way This post has been edited by futureweasley: Feb 21 2007, 09:24 PM |
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Feb 21 2007, 09:14 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner |
[19:53] <Aislinn> I think that DD was giving them back what they had lost at that time, as they were acting to help a friend
[19:53] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, Aislinn [19:53] *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge [19:53] <DumbleDebbie> well then, they really should've gotten more LOL [19:53] <huebbe> DD must have been a Gryfindor.... [19:53] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I never thought of that, Aislinn, but I agree [19:53] <Aislinn> hi carpe [19:53] <fawkes28> DD rewards people for good deeds and the trio and neville showed a lot of love for each other - which DD always emphasizes [19:53] <DumbleDebbie> hey carpe [19:53] <huebbe> hi carpe [19:53] <CarpeDiem> Evening all! [19:53] <Ravenclaws_Heir> He was, huebbe [19:53] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi carpe [19:53] <fawkes28> that is a good point, aislinn [19:53] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I just thought it was interesting that they were tied with Slytherin until Neville was awarded his points... I loved that [19:53] <Joyhawk2121> hi carpe [19:53] <huebbe> good show [19:54] <Pleshette> Good point Aislinn [19:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> That part was my favorite when I first read the books... when she's describing it was like a bomb had gone off in teh great hall and Neville was so dumbfounded... so precious [19:54] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, me too TAD [19:54] <huebbe> yes theA [19:54] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Me too, TAD! That was a very touching moment. [19:54] <Pleshette> Hi carpe! [19:54] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah god i love neville [19:54] <Aislinn> it was great chocolate smile [19:54] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I have a slight theory that I don't really believe that that could foreshadow some events in DH [19:54] <Wierdgirl5834> okay go on [19:54] <huebbe> But DD, I think knew the outcome before it happened [19:54] <TheAzkabanDietitian> what do you mean? [19:54] <DumbleDebbie> you mean Neville stepping up RH? [19:55] <fawkes28> well, definitely huebbe - he did it on purpose [19:55] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well...the fact that everything was tied until Nevilles small act of bravery saved the day [19:55] <CarpeDiem> Yes, since he was the one awarding the points, I think he did huebbe smile [19:55] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Ah, ok [19:55] <BrettMac> they definitely deserved it. but i think even all the teachers felt a twinge of unsettlement at this. i mean, it wasnt exactly a secret that harry was dumbledores favorite, and your not supposed to give out points after they are all added up... [19:55] <Wierdgirl5834> this all hoes back to harry being the person at godric's hollow [19:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed, brett [19:55] <huebbe> he knows what will happen before it does....he is like Nevilles toad....everywhere and nowhere [19:55] <TheAzkabanDietitian> No it doesn't [19:55] <TheAzkabanDietitian> lol huebbe [19:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha [19:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> oh trevor [19:56] <Ravenclaws_Heir> lo [19:56] <Ravenclaws_Heir> **lol [19:56] <Wierdgirl5834> yeah it does, cuz dumby knows that everything is gonna turn out okay [19:56] <Pleshette> Yes brett, but I don't think DD showed favoritism to Harry. We're seeing things through Harry's eyes [19:56] <CarpeDiem> Yes, DD seems to know quite about about everything going on around him smile [19:56] <huebbe> I've often wondered if he was the toad! [19:56] <Aislinn> right, pleshette - I don't think it was favoritism to him at all [19:56] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'm sure that DD has connections with many other students, he cares for all of them [19:56] <fawkes28> DD is a very fair person - he really tries to be as objective as possible [19:56] <Aislinn> in fact, if it had been, Harry's points would hav ebeen the ones that put the House over the top to win the Cup [19:56] <Wierdgirl5834> well in cos he allowed professor mcgonagall to give harry and ron detention [19:56] <huebbe> But maybe that is why he sends Harry....he knows the outcome, and due to the love both Harry and DD have their is a connection [19:57] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, fawkes. Though, despite his best intentions I think he does occasionally favor Harry [19:57] <fawkes28> he is just closer to harry because of all the trials that harry has to face in his life [19:57] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Agreed fawkes, he says himself that he tries not to show his feelings for Harry too much doesn't he? [19:57] <Pleshette> I think we've seen many examples throughout the series where DD has reached out generously to others too [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> Aislinn, PM [19:57] <fawkes28> Love can sometimes be expressed in the form of discipline or disappointment. Can you think of any examples of times when Dumbledore expressed his love for Harry in this way? [19:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if it wasn't for firenze, harry would very likely have been attacked in the forest... do you really think that dumbledore would let harry get THAT close? I don't think dumbledore knows EVERYTHING [19:58] <huebbe> Yes....book 5 [19:58] <Aislinn> It's not you smile [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> he makes him follow the rules about Hogsmeade [19:58] <BrettMac> when he set him up for occlumency with snape. that was a terrible thing... [19:58] <Wierdgirl5834> oh when he gave harry to the dursleys [19:58] <BrettMac> but he did it to protect harry [19:58] <huebbe> I think he was disappointed at Harry's behavior and reaction [19:58] <ProngsPatronus> well, Occlumency lessons with Snape come to mind... [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> when he was disappointed that harry hadn't gotten the memory from slughorn... harry was SO distracted, but he had a huge mission... i think it woke harry up to the importence of their meetings [19:58] <fawkes28> that is true brett [19:58] <stewiegryf> I think in HBP when he shows disappointment that Harry hadn't taken his task of getting Slughorn's memory seriously. [19:58] <huebbe> yes brett [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> beat ya stewie! [19:59] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Good point, Chocolate [19:59] <fawkes28> yes, stewie - he was definitely disappoined in harry [19:59] <CarpeDiem> good one chocolateisnotforbreakfast ...and stewiegryf smile [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehe [19:59] <Ravenclaws_Heir> and stewie smile [19:59] <stewiegryf> I'm not just quick enough on the keyboard I guess. [19:59] <Aislinn> Yes, that one was the most striking to me, Chocolate [19:59] <BrettMac> in book 5, when he wouldnt make eye contact, i guess... it was to protect ahrry, and dd, but it was a rotten thing to do from harrys perspective [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's the one that Harry understood the most [19:59] <Aislinn> I also think his reaction when Harry and Ron came to school in the car was another example [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ohhh, agreed Brett [19:59] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Agreed, Brett [19:59] <ProngsPatronus> yes [19:59] <DumbleDebbie> it was better than the alternative brett [19:59] <Wierdgirl5834> god i can see michael gambon playing the disapointed dumbeldore but not the calm one [19:59] <fawkes28> I think it is a testament to how strong Harry and DD's love for each other is when Harry gets more upset about DD being disappointed rather than getting yelled at [20:00] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Yes, but I think DD understands that Harry is a child, and that he will make mistakes [20:00] <BrettMac> yes aislinn, the cr was a good example [20:00] <Joyhawk2121> good point fawkes [20:00] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, fawkes. Very good point. [20:00] <Wierdgirl5834> adults make more mistakes than kids [20:00] <Wierdgirl5834> i know cuz i am a kid [20:00] <stewiegryf> Exactly fawkes. It's always more troublesome to disappoint someone who loves you than to get told off but someone else. [20:00] <BrettMac> ...(sometimes tongue) [20:00] <ProngsPatronus> he is sued to being yelled at--but someone having enough faith in him to be disappointed--well, that's different altogether [20:00] <huebbe> But I think DD was disappointed in Harry's recklessness.....DD is controlled and Harry was not. I'm sorry, but that was not teenage angst. That was ......ugh....I can't even put it into words [20:01] <ProngsPatronus> *used* [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> totally agree prongs [20:01] <DumbleDebbie> yes, stewie [20:01] <Aislinn> yes, prongs - completely different for him [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> COMPLETELY agree, prongs [20:01] <BrettMac> all caps harry was a great scene, but it was too sudden and un-hp. he just went so ballistic so suddenly, it kinda freaked me out [20:01] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, Prongs [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> who else is there to be disappointed in him? [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nobody [20:01] <huebbe> well his friends [20:01] <ProngsPatronus> and, to tell the truth, Harry and Ron panicked [20:01] <Wierdgirl5834> oliver wood [20:01] <Wierdgirl5834> loll [20:01] <stewiegryf> Nobody else that cares as much for him. [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> caps-lock harry bugged me too, Brett [20:02] <huebbe> he can't stand it when Ron is mad at him [20:02] <Joyhawk2121> and the weasley mom [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> and I think that DD was disappointed about that [20:02] <Wierdgirl5834> I love cap-lock harry [20:02] * TheAzkabanDietitian loves capslock Harry [20:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha [20:02] <fawkes28> Love can also be seen as being expressed through acts of protection. What examples have we seen from Dumbledore where he has protected Harry? [20:02] <Wierdgirl5834> i felt so much symphathy for harry [20:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> seemed un-canon [20:02] <TheAzkabanDietitian> The Dursley house [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> the DA [20:02] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think DD was very understanding during capslock Harry scene. He knows that Harry desperatley needs to vent. [20:02] <cbm> Book 5 was all about protecting Harry [20:02] <Wierdgirl5834> dursleys [20:02] <DumbleDebbie> the end of OotP is an obvous one [20:02] <fawkes28> the Minstry scene definitely comes to mine [20:02] <huebbe> oh heavens....their is another whole 2 hours [20:02] <Pleshette> The MoM [20:02] <DumbleDebbie> yes Clark, it was [20:02] <stewiegryf> Harry's trial. [20:02] <Wierdgirl5834> I love book 5 [20:02] <CarpeDiem> Harry's trial at the beginning of OotP [20:02] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Dusleys, not telling Harry about the prophecy until the end of OotP [20:02] <huebbe> his first 11 years before Dursley [20:03] <Wierdgirl5834> best book] [20:03] <DumbleDebbie> yes, RH, that was to insulate Harry from that [20:03] <TheAzkabanDietitian> By not allowing Voldemort to use Harry in OotP. There are really too many accounts... [20:03] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> MoM, when he traps harry and tells him to stay back... the way Jo describes his voice sends chills through me... how he was frightened for Harry's life, knwoing that Harry was in TRUE danger [20:03] <huebbe> Although DD is like a devils advocate he protects him, yet puts him in the middle of it all at the same time [20:03] <Wierdgirl5834> he's protected harry plenty of times [20:03] <CarpeDiem> DD deciding to leave Harry with the Dursleys and not take and raise him himself. [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> yes, Carpe b/c he knew the blood protection was the strongest thing for harry [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> he came to the Ministry in person to save harry [20:04] <Joyhawk2121> also having him watched when he's outside the Gursley's house [20:04] <stewiegryf> Not to mention the cold fury that we see in DD's eyes when he busts in on Crouch Jr. at the end of GoF [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> that tells me so much about DD [20:04] <Joyhawk2121> I mean Dursley's [20:04] <CarpeDiem> Good point huebbe...he seems to know exaclty when enough is enough, doesn't he? [20:04] <cbm> But in protecting Harry, I thing DD was the creator of caps lock Harry in OotP [20:04] <BrettMac> when umbridge caught the da...that was a big turning point in the boook for me, seeing dd protect harrys rights like that when he had been so silent to him the whole novel up to then [20:04] <DumbleDebbie> love that Stewie! [20:04] <TheAzkabanDietitian> nice one stewie [20:04] <futureweasley> Hey guys, as much fun as random chatting is, we really do try to write questions to faciliate the best conversation about a specific topic. So, please, stay on that topic. Thank you. [20:04] <huebbe> the invisibility cloak....protection and an invitation to get involved [20:04] <Wierdgirl5834> but we are having good chat! [20:04] <Wierdgirl5834> whateva [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> I think, cbm, that years of abuse was responsibe for capslock Harry [20:05] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Ah, sorry future [20:05] <futureweasley> !kick wierdfirl5834 [20:05] <futureweasley> !kick wierdgirl5834 [20:05] *** Wierdgirl5834 was kicked from #lounge by Snuffles [Requested] [20:05] <Aislinn> !kick Wierdgirl5834 [20:05] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Anyhoot, I think it took great strength on DD part to allow Harry to stay at the Dursleys [20:05] <DumbleDebbie> weren't we talkign about DD protecting Harry? [20:05] <cbm> He craved some support from DD during OotP and he got none [20:05] <Pleshette> I love how DD encourages Harry to tell of his graveyard experience right away so that Harry won't bottle it up inside [20:05] <huebbe> DD loves Harry, but also wants Harry to mature and do what needs to be done. His fingers are all over Harry's life [20:05] <Aislinn> yes, debbie [20:06] <BrettMac> Well, great chat everyone but i really have to go. ill try to make it to p3 on sunday! smile [20:06] <Pleshette> a different kind of protection [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> bye brett [20:06] <TheAzkabanDietitian> bye brett [20:06] <Pleshette> Bye brett [20:06] <huebbe> bye brett [20:06] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, TAD. I think it must have been very difficult for DD to leave Harry on the Dursleys doorstep that night, as calm as he seemed. [20:06] *** BrettMac left #lounge [] [20:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> wasn't there a part when Hermione and Ron were describing that Dumbledore looked scary? When the dementors came and Harry fainted from his broom... Not only did he protect harry from physical harm, he was FURIOUS at the dementors for causing harry mental anguish [20:06] <huebbe> well is it literal protection....or maternial...sort a speak [20:06] <CarpeDiem> Yes Pleshette! It must have been difficult for DD to insist...to put Harry through it again...but it turns out it was for the best. [20:06] <fawkes28> he also loved him enough to freeze him under the cloak [20:06] <TheAzkabanDietitian> It just makes me wonder what kind of ties DD had with the Potters [20:06] <TheAzkabanDietitian> YES fawkes [20:06] <Pleshette> Yes fawkes [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> good one choco, he fought to keep the Dementors out of the school [20:07] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Oh yeah, that's a big one fawkes. [20:07] <stewiegryf> Ooh, good point fawkes. [20:07] <TheAzkabanDietitian> He was protecting him like he did in the MoM [20:07] <CarpeDiem> Yes chocolate! Have we ever heard DD described as furious before? Can you even imagine!!? smile [20:07] <Aislinn> yes, chocolate- there have been a couple of those incidences - also when Dung left Harry's protection detail [20:07] <ProngsPatronus> yes, fawkes [20:07] <huebbe> yes...but maybe it was also so Harry could witness it [20:07] <huebbe> and have more of a reason to pursue evil rather than lament DD's death [20:07] <fawkes28> when DD gets mad - it seems to be out of love for Harry [20:07] <cbm> An unfrozen Harry may have been able to save DD at the risk of Harry's life [20:07] <fawkes28> very true, cbm sad [20:07] <Aislinn> I agree, fawkes - that is usually when we see that emotion from him [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> yes fawkes [20:08] <fawkes28> Love can also be expressed through the passing on of values to the person one loves. What examples have we ssen of Dumbledore passing on values to Harry? [20:08] <Ravenclaws_Heir> True, fawkes. In fact, I can't think of a single time we have seen DD mad when Harry wasn't involved [20:08] <huebbe> love itself and the ability to love [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> I think he sees Harry as his responsibility to seom eextent [20:08] <ProngsPatronus> I think that DD does a lot of that [20:08] <stewiegryf> The mirror incident comes back to mind. [20:08] <Joyhawk2121> he told Moody to look after him. well not the good Moody but, he did not know that at the time [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> don't trust Bertie Bott's toffee-colored beans! [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> "It's our choices" [20:08] <fawkes28> I think Harry has gotten a lot just by watching the way DD carries himself [20:08] <CarpeDiem> Time and time again DD has shown openness toward different races and creatures. I think Harry ahd that as well but DD is an excellent example. [20:08] <TheAzkabanDietitian> He was angry when the Dementors came to the Quidditch field CarpeDiem [20:08] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has quit [Bye] [20:08] <stewiegryf> Yes, it seems he learns a little bit each year. [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> true carpe [20:09] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has joined #lounge [20:09] <fawkes28> Harry has learned that his power comes from within rather than outward and showing off power that way [20:09] <Pleshette> standing united with others who are different [20:09] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Since PS, DD has been subtly passing his morals to Harry. Starting with "It does not do to dwell on dreams..." [20:09] <fawkes28> yes, RH [20:09] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well, not always that subtly I guess [20:09] <huebbe> Harry has found a real "human" in DD. Someone he trusts and someone he can communicate with. DD is both friend and father. DD has passed on compassion to Harry and the will to forgive [20:09] <ProngsPatronus> he also tries to tech Harry to have respect for people. I think that is one of the few times DD fails with harry--trying to get some respect from him for Snape [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> lol RH [20:09] <Aislinn> yes, pleshette, and tolerance for all types of creatures and people [20:09] <CarpeDiem> Yes fakes. And DD insists over and over again that is our choices that determind who we are, not our "destiny" or "fate" [20:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> dumbledore has to constantly remind harry about his power to love... it's something that harry still hasn't fully grasped, as he seems to say it with a kind of "oh yeah, that love thing again" and dumbledore is ALWAYS impressing the importence of it [20:10] <Aislinn> he doesn't give him reason to, though, prongs [20:10] <DumbleDebbie> DD seems very much the sage grandfather type figure to Harry [20:10] <Joyhawk2121> letting him know frienship is important [20:10] <cbm> I think that Harry has always treated all creatures well [20:10] <Ravenclaws_Heir> exactly, chocolate [20:10] <Aislinn> I agree, cbm [20:10] <ProngsPatronus> I know, Ais--still , DD tries [20:10] <CarpeDiem> And a father figure as well, DumbleDebbie [20:10] <Aislinn> I think it is an area he has definitely failed at [20:10] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has quit [Bye] [20:10] <Pleshette> Also that there are worse things than death [20:11] <Pleshette> and not to fear death [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> ohh, good one pleshette [20:11] <ProngsPatronus> yes, pleshette [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> good one Pleshette [20:11] <stewiegryf> I think that the most important thing he teaches is that Harry shouldn't try to do everything himself. He is always telling Harry to confide in Ron and Hermione and use their support. [20:11] <fawkes28> very true, pleshette [20:11] <huebbe> yes, and LV will find out that one! [20:11] *** padfoot27 has joined #lounge [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nice stewie! [20:11] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has joined #lounge [20:11] <Ravenclaws_Heir> ooh, that's a big one PLeshette [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> hi padfoot [20:11] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi padfoot [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> wb TAD [20:11] <huebbe> hi padfoot [20:11] <TheAzkabanDietitian> what is the question now? [20:11] <CarpeDiem> DD also shows ultimate love and sacrifice. Something Harry seems to be learning as well [20:11] <fawkes28> Do you think that Dumbledore was right to withhold the information from Harry as long as he did regarding the prophecy? [20:11] <huebbe> hmmm....no [20:11] <ProngsPatronus> yes I do [20:11] <TheAzkabanDietitian> No [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> yes, he was protecting him [20:11] <Joyhawk2121> no [20:11] <futureweasley> no, Dumbledore has a serious lack of judgment on that one [20:12] <cbm> No, I think he should of told Harry at the start of OotP [20:12] <stewiegryf> I think he should have told him a bit sooner. [20:12] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Actually, I think he should have told him more towards the beginning of OotP, not the end [20:12] <fawkes28> i think he should have told harry sooner [20:12] <Pellinore> only for literary reasons :p [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> and I think up until the end of GoF DD thought that the Prophecy meant Harry would die [20:12] <huebbe> DD should have understood that Harry has the capacity to comprehend a great deal....don't sell him short [20:12] <ProngsPatronus> I go along with DD's line of reasoning with that one [20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> no... but this is how it came out, and it's really just a "what if" game if we try to figure out what mightve happened otherwise [20:12] <futureweasley> I think Harry should have known what he was up against by the end of CoS, personally... [20:12] <fawkes28> even DD admits that he was being selfish [20:12] <CarpeDiem> No, I don't think he was right but I think the fact that he wasn't right makes him that much more beliveable a character. I think if he were to be infallable he would not be as special [20:12] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that it was understandable, and maybe even right for him to hold it from Harry until the end of GoF. But once LV came back, Harry really needed to know. It would have helped so much over the course of OotP [20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> we needed a sweet payoff for OotP! [20:12] <fawkes28> i agree completely, carpe [20:12] <Aislinn> i think that it was important for Harry to mature and develop at the rate that he did. I think learning of the prophecy earlier would have changed that fundamentally for him [20:13] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Once Voldemort was back, DD should have told him soon afterwards... Harry needed to understand the importance of his learning Occlumency, etc. [20:13] <huebbe> Like how Aislinn? [20:13] <DumbleDebbie> he wanted Harry to have more "normal days" before putting the weight of the wizarding world onto him [20:13] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, Aislinn. [20:13] <futureweasley> however, the story was definitely more interesting the way Jo wrote it...I have to keep reminding myself that it's not my series [20:13] <fawkes28> Harry could have handled it earlier - it made harry very mad to not know what was going on that summer [20:13] <Aislinn> I think it would have isolated him, and set him apart even more than he already felt at various times over the years [20:13] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I was mad as well [20:13] <fawkes28> i think that he should have told him shortly after the graveyard seen in GoF [20:13] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think Harry really grasped how serious Voldemort was [20:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think harry might've flipped if it happened earlier. would he have been as willing to put himself in danger if he knew he was the only one able to kill LV? [20:14] <ProngsPatronus> Harry has to be shown/experience events to learn [20:14] <Aislinn> he need to have time to just grow up as one of the kids in the school [20:14] <huebbe> hmmm...yes, but what about learning that he was a "marked man" from the off? [20:14] <TheAzkabanDietitian> He might not have formed the DA if he had had more contact with DD over OotP though... [20:14] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree completely, fawkes. [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> true Prongs [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> he was only 15 [20:14] <ProngsPatronus> DD just telling him about the prophecy would not have meant as much to Harry at the beginning of OP [20:14] <stewiegryf> But if Harry does end up defeating Voldemort (which we all assume he will) does it make any difference? Not knowing allowed Harry less stress-filled days. [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> let the kid have some normalcy [20:14] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Once LV was back, Harry needed to know. There was just no excuse. [20:15] <fawkes28> yes, RH [20:15] <CarpeDiem> I think Dumbledore undersetimated Harry's ability to cope with news such as the prophecy. Perhaps the lessons he learned in OotP were what shaped it but I think his attitude in HBP was amazing whre the prophecy was concerened. [20:15] <ProngsPatronus> Harry needed time [20:15] <TheAzkabanDietitian> One of DD mistakes I think [20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed stewie... i think the last happy day was the one at the end of HBP [20:15] <huebbe> But for Harry, he has never been normal [20:15] <ProngsPatronus> DD bought that time for him [20:15] <Ravenclaws_Heir> But I think it was important that Harry had as normal of a childhood as possible until the graveyard. [20:15] <huebbe> either way....Dursley or famous otherwise [20:15] <fawkes28> right, prongs - out of love [20:15] <ProngsPatronus> if harry is to succeed, he needs to have some sense of normalcy [20:15] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, prongs [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> yes Prongs [20:15] <huebbe> yes, but he must also know what it is to be alone [20:16] <ProngsPatronus> I think that is part and parcel of waiting to tell him about the prophecy [20:16] <fawkes28> Dumbledore not only allows, but seems to encourage Harry to take risks. How could he do this, if he really loved Harry? [20:16] <DumbleDebbie> he knew that for years 1.5 to 11 huebbe [20:16] *** padfoot27 has quit [Bye] [20:16] <ProngsPatronus> he wanted normalcy to be something harry could draw upon [20:16] <huebbe> yes....and at times while at Hogworts [20:16] <stewiegryf> He is trying to prepare Harry for what he knows is to come. [20:16] <DumbleDebbie> he needs the training [20:16] <cbm> He was allowing Harry to be responsible and not interfere with his life [20:16] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well, DD does at times urge Harry to take caution. But DD also knows that Harry will have to face LV at some point, and that his "adventures" in every book prepare him for this. [20:17] <huebbe> DD knows the future...he had to "make" Harry the man he will become [20:17] <ProngsPatronus> Harry is not only the child of his heart, he is the sovereign weapon against the Dark Lord [20:17] <DumbleDebbie> would you send a kid to a 30 ft diving competition without 1st teaching them how to swin? [20:17] <DumbleDebbie> *swim [20:17] <ProngsPatronus> a weapon needs to be honed, refined [20:17] <TheAzkabanDietitian> By allowing Harry to save Sirius in PoA... [20:17] <futureweasley> it was a form of teaching...hands on, not holding Harry's hand...just letting him learn by experiencing [20:17] <CarpeDiem> Dumbledore knows and sees that Harry is destined for greatness. It's important for Harry to be who he is. DD knows that LV is not going to follow "rules" and Harry has to be ready to break them at times as well. [20:17] <huebbe> I think DD has been testing Harry all along [20:17] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, future [20:17] <stewiegryf> Exactly future. Harry needs to walk before he can run. [20:18] <huebbe> and guiding him simoltaneoulsy....wow I can't spell [20:18] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Good way of putting it, Stewie [20:18] <fawkes28> Harry's life is one big risk - DD has to let him learn by taking risks [20:18] *** danielk has joined #lounge [20:18] <ProngsPatronus> yes, future--and that is how Harry leans best [20:18] <CarpeDiem> Good point, futureweasley...and sometimes the hardest type of teaching to do. Letting go of the bike on the first ride without training wheels is scary! smile [20:18] <huebbe> yes, that is how you teach, unfortunately [20:18] <danielk> im back, so fill me in on EVERYTHING i missed [20:18] <Ravenclaws_Heir> wb daniel [20:18] <DumbleDebbie> wb daniel [20:18] <danielk> lol jk [20:18] <danielk> hello [20:18] <ProngsPatronus> *learns* [20:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Dumbledore seems to realize that we can't grow without trials [20:18] <danielk> so topic still the same? [20:19] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Right now we are talking about why DD alows and even encourages harry to take risks at times, Daniel [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nobody can grow without challenges [20:19] * DumbleDebbie pictures Harry riding a bike leaning to one side LOL [20:19] <fawkes28> In Chamber of Secrets, Harry expresses loyalty to Dumbledore that causes Fawkes to arrive, bearing the Sorting Hat. Given the limited contact that Harry has had with Dumbledore up to this point, why do you think he expressed such feelings? [20:19] <danielk> thx [20:19] <huebbe> Harry instinctively trusts DD [20:19] <danielk> i agree with choco [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think Dumbledore earned Harry's trust [20:19] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:19] <DumbleDebbie> respect [20:19] <fawkes28> right and vice versa [20:19] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD is the one that Harry hols in the highest regards... [20:20] <danielk> but he earned it along with his reputation [20:20] <huebbe> ok must go-children hanging from rafters [20:20] <huebbe> bye all! [20:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Harry felt that dumbledore let him go through the trapdoor, and i think harry respected him for that... respected him for letting him face Voldemort [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> bye hebbe [20:20] <danielk> bye [20:20] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that Harry had a sense, from the Erised scene, hospital wing scene, and house points scene that DD had been, to some extent watching over him and cared for him. [20:20] <Aislinn> I think that Harry is a good judge of character, and recognizes that Dumbledore is someone he can rely on, trust and admire [20:20] *** huebbe has quit [Bye] [20:20] <CarpeDiem> To Harry, DD is the exact opposite of LV, the one person that LV is afraid of and therefore the one person that can protect him from Voldemort. Who better to put all your trust in? [20:20] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, Aislinn [20:20] <TheAzkabanDietitian> right CD [20:20] <Aislinn> very true carpe [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> yes Aislinn, good poitn [20:20] <Joyhawk2121> Don't you think it was a gut feeling also [20:20] <stewiegryf> I agree Aislinn. Harry does seem to be a very good judge of character [20:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> L... is for the way he looks at Harry - O... is for the only one he sees - V... is very very... Volde-mortuary - E... is even more love in store for Dumbledore [20:20] <fawkes28> i think DD wanted to Harry to know that he had Fawkes as a resource - he needed Harry to know that loyalty is an important trait to have [20:21] <Ravenclaws_Heir> good point, carpe [20:21] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:21] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:21] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye] [20:21] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [20:21] <futureweasley> I agree Aislinn...no better role model and teacher for Harry than DD. He really is the best of people...the best of wizards [20:21] <CarpeDiem> Yes Joy, I think Harry is a great judge of character. Dumbledore too. I'm sure they just click when they are together smile [20:21] <danielk> unless you are a death eater, then DD is the worst :p [20:21] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Harry recognised himself in Dd--they are very alike in some ways [20:21] <Ravenclaws_Heir> But DD didn't really send fawkes to Harry, fawkes (no pun intended), Harry called fawkes to him. [20:22] <DumbleDebbie> yes, they are Prongs [20:22] <ProngsPatronus> he never had an adult to which he could look up [20:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nice grammar prongs! [20:22] <danielk> he had sirius to look up to for a while [20:22] <danielk> but probably more as a older brother [20:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and good point! [20:22] <Ravenclaws_Heir> But he didn't know Sirius during CoS [20:22] <CarpeDiem> Good point Prongs. I bet that drives Dumbledore even more to be the best sort of mentor and guidance he can for Harry [20:23] <danielk> i c [20:23] <ProngsPatronus> yes--the reactions of the child informs the mentor/surrogate parent [20:23] <ProngsPatronus> and so, they both learn [20:23] *** harrmione55 has joined #lounge [20:23] <DumbleDebbie> hi harrmione [20:23] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi harrmione [20:23] <Joyhawk2121> hi [20:24] <fawkes28> When do you feel that Harry developed the love for Dumbledore that we saw so clearly in the Half Blood Prince, when he tells Scrimgeour that he is Dumbledore's man, through and through? [20:24] <danielk> hi [20:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hola [20:24] <cbm> hi [20:24] *** Danny2006 has joined #lounge [20:24] <Danny2006> hi people [20:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> through all the books [20:24] <DumbleDebbie> it likely grew over time [20:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> there's not a moment of "I love that man!" [20:24] <DumbleDebbie> hi danny [20:24] <cbm> I think it was a gradual thing that started from the 1st time he saw his chocolate frog card [20:24] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Dumbledore was the first person Harry ever knew that loved him (besides his parents). It is natural that he should feel the same way about DD [20:24] <TheAzkabanDietitian> It grew over time, but I think it grew the strongest throughout HBP [20:24] <fawkes28> i think that their relationship built over the whole year and it is hard to say at what point he became DD's man [20:24] <Aislinn> I agree cbm [20:25] <DumbleDebbie> yes, Clark, admirition and respect but they got closer over the years [20:25] <Aislinn> I think that it did build up gradually [20:25] *** harrmione55 has quit [Bye] [20:25] <ProngsPatronus> I think that it started when DD told Harry that he was not bad for being a Parselmouth, and that he was not the Heir of Slytherin [20:25] <Joyhawk2121> so do I Aislinn [20:25] <stewiegryf> I think it was solidified when DD took Harry along for the horcrux hunt [20:25] *** memyslfnI has joined #lounge [20:25] <DumbleDebbie> hi me [20:25] <TheAzkabanDietitian> hi mems [20:25] <futureweasley> I don't know if a pinpointed time can be said...but I think it was more of a progression. Likely, when DD came to Harry with the complete truth about his destiny...when DD showed that he trusted Harry through and through [20:25] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think he took a step back in OotP, but dumbledore's honesty made up for it... the fact that they had a kind of disagreement, or fight or whatever, only strengthened their relationship, preparing them for the intense growth in HBP [20:25] <memyslfnI> hi all! [20:25] <cbm> It grew but it did hit a pretty big bump in the road during OotP [20:25] <Joyhawk2121> hello [20:25] <Aislinn> hi me smile [20:25] *** harrmione55 has joined #lounge [20:26] <futureweasley> hi memyslf [20:26] <ProngsPatronus> hey, M! [20:26] <DumbleDebbie> wb harrmione [20:26] <fawkes28> very true, cbm [20:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha me! whenever you come in i think people are going crazy, greeting themselves [20:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> every time [20:26] <memyslfnI> hehehe! [20:26] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that that was a huge changing block in their relationship, stewie, but keep in mind that Harry identified himself as Dumbledores man before the cave [20:26] <Pleshette> yes i agree future [20:27] <stewiegryf> True, during Christmas. My fingers type faster than my mind thinks sometimes. [20:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think his loyalty to DD in the CoS was the beginning of that, when he says that "Albus Dumbledore is the greatest wizard in the world" [20:27] <fawkes28> i think after every event that harry has been through - their relationship has grown a lot more stronger [20:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and really believes it [20:27] <Danny2006> ya that is true [20:27] <Pleshette> And by the end I think Harry and DD saw each other as equals, not mentor protege or whatever [20:27] <fawkes28> Was Dumbledore's love for Harry a help or a hindrance to his "molding" the Chosen One for his destiny? [20:27] <memyslfnI> oes anyone else fault DD for the relationship he had with Harry up to book four and then how he withdrew himself during OOP? It was necessary, yes, but did he think about how it would effect Harry? [20:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed pleshette [20:27] <futureweasley> yes, Pleshette.. [20:28] *** harrmione55 has quit [Bye] [20:28] <Danny2006> i dont know about equals [20:28] <futureweasley> a bit of both? [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> help [20:28] *** T-marie has joined #lounge [20:28] <stewiegryf> Well, I must be off now. Bye all! [20:28] <futureweasley> it helped and hindered [20:28] <cbm> I also think that Harry thinks that DD is the only one who can relate ot to his destiny [20:28] <danielk> bye [20:28] *** stewiegryf left #lounge [] [20:28] <Joyhawk2121> I think Help [20:28] <ProngsPatronus> I think it was the deciding factor in making harry as loving asd he is now [20:28] <Danny2006> i dont know about equals [20:28] <Pleshette> Bye stewie [20:28] <fawkes28> i think it was more of a help than a hindrance [20:28] <cbm> I agree FW [20:28] <Aislinn> I think he did think about it me, but realized it was the lesser of many evils [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> hi t-marie [20:28] <fawkes28> love is the most important thing in regards to harry's prophecy and DD is modeling that quite well for harry [20:28] <T-marie> hi [20:28] <Ravenclaws_Heir> To some extent....but at the same time, the love Harry as experienced from DD will almost certainly help him in the final battle. [20:29] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Hi t-marie [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> yes, fawkes, he taught him love by example. right up to (and including) his death [20:29] <memyslfnI> I think that he was so used to withdrawing. This was his "human moment" up to that point. it was the first time DD was fallable [20:29] *** Danny2006 has quit [Bye] [20:29] <Aislinn> I thnk that Dumbledore's love has been profound in Harry's development [20:29] <Pleshette> I think so Danny, the cave experience when DD had to rely on harry for the first time I'm thinking [20:29] <danielk> This is kind of off topic, but is everyone else here satisfied with the explanation that love is so powerful? [20:29] <CarpeDiem> Yep, I think it's a very difficult internal conflict for Dumbledore. No matter what you do you could send this innocent boy to his death. Don't over-protect but don't give him too much information...he's done an amaziing job. [20:29] <DumbleDebbie> I'm sure we'll see more in DH daniel [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> help - didn't Molly or someone say to Lupin that dumbledore would be happier if there was a bit more love in the world? I think that love is beneficial, no matter how it might have messed up his brilliant plan... it gave harry the motivation for the horcrux hunt [20:30] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, carpe. The one exception in my mind is that DD should have told Harry about the prophecy after the graveyard. [20:30] <danielk> i agree, DD should ahve [20:30] <ProngsPatronus> right after Cedric's death? [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> then what would have book 5 been about, RH? :-P [20:30] <danielk> but, was DD afraid LV would have seen into harry's thoughts [20:30] <memyslfnI> as a parent, though I have shielded my kids when I should have talked to them. its a hard balance to achieve [20:30] <danielk> because of their connection that is [20:31] <T-marie> don't you think that love and compassion are what made DD so powerful? [20:31] <DumbleDebbie> Harry wasn't exactly in a stable mental state after the graveyard [20:31] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Exactly, it was needed for a plot point in OotP. But once LV was back Harry had a right to know. [20:31] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has quit [Bye] [20:31] *** Danny2006 has joined #lounge [20:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yes T-marie [20:31] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has joined #lounge [20:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he's strong in the light side of the force [20:31] <Pleshette> So true me [20:31] <DumbleDebbie> yes t-marie they do make him very powerful [20:31] <Aislinn> it is a hard balance, and Dumbledore has the added challenge of Voldemort and the connection with Harry [20:31] <danielk> i think it makes DD a better person, not necessarily such a powerful wizard [20:31] <T-marie> lol [20:31] <danielk> look at LV, about as equal in power to DD [20:31] <danielk> but he has 0 love in him [20:31] <T-marie> I think DD still loved LD too [20:32] <fawkes28> that is the one difference - love [20:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, he DOES have mr. blood [20:32] <Danny2006> ld? [20:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> who has love [20:32] <Ravenclaws_Heir> lol [20:32] <T-marie> LV [20:32] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD never loved LV [20:32] <danielk> but doesnt that just make him a better person, not a more powerful wizard? [20:32] <memyslfnI> I dont think he did either. [20:32] <DumbleDebbie> I think DD teaching Harry love will be key in the end [20:32] <CarpeDiem> That's an excellent point memyslfnI. Dumbldore in a sense is being a parent for Harry. Both of which are new to the roles [20:32] <ProngsPatronus> I believe it makes him both, danielk [20:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> me too dumbledebbie, espeically because harry has yet to FULLY grasp it [20:33] <fawkes28> Do you think that Dumbledore made mistakes in his relationship with Harry that were due to love? [20:33] <T-marie> but doesn't he have to love him since he has part of harry in him [20:33] <Danny2006> ok [20:33] <Danny2006> ya i think he did love him when he was tom he loved all his students [20:33] <TheAzkabanDietitian> OVER protection [20:33] <cbm> Yes!!! [20:33] <fawkes28> DD does make mistakes which makes him human [20:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nah - it's just a what-if game [20:33] <DumbleDebbie> he said he did [20:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> harry's turned out pretty okay [20:33] <cbm> I hate to harp, but he admits those mistakes atfter the ministry [20:33] <DumbleDebbie> better to err loving too much than not enough IMO [20:33] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah, but what does he know, dumbledebbie? :-P [20:34] <T-marie> right [20:34] <Ravenclaws_Heir> yes, cbm [20:34] <ProngsPatronus> he didn't tell Harry why he had not made Harry a prefect [20:34] <danielk> he did [20:34] <fawkes28> it is interesting that we see these mistakes when Dumbledore's love for Harry is very strong [20:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah he did [20:34] <TheAzkabanDietitian> That was a wonderfully written chapter btw [20:34] <ProngsPatronus> not until the end of the year [20:34] <CarpeDiem> It would be so unrealistic if Dumbledore were perfect. He's done an amazing job with what time and experience he had. [20:34] * cbm is in the middle of OotP, so is not happy with DD right now [20:34] <memyslfnI> he said he thought he had too much on his plate, didn't he? [20:34] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, TAD [20:34] <CarpeDiem> I agree wholeheartedly TAD smile [20:34] <Aislinn> yes, carpe, that is so true [20:34] <ProngsPatronus> yes, M [20:34] <danielk> that is what he said [20:34] <Pleshette> Yes [20:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> true - yeah, now that i'm rememebring OotP, dumbledore was a JERK... if he had just told harry, there wouldn't be any problems in going into the MoM [20:35] <futureweasley> harhar [20:35] <danielk> but remember what DD said [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> not necessarily choco [20:35] <futureweasley> sorry...that's not at all what I meant to do [20:35] <danielk> he didnt want to tell harry too much, he was afraid of LV seeing harry's thoughts [20:35] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD was just TOO distant, even for himself. It was very annoying. I felt Harry's agitation [20:35] <memyslfnI> but if he did, there wouldn't have been a book, would there1 lol! [20:35] <fawkes28> future that is not on topic laugh [20:35] <Pleshette> lol [20:35] <danielk> although i dont like that, DD shoudlnt ahve done it, but that is his explanation [20:35] <CarpeDiem> lol I was wondering futureweasley smile [20:35] <TheAzkabanDietitian> lol FW [20:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah, i want the MoM battle! bring on the lies, Dumbledore! [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> now you have to kick yourself future [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> wink [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> or... lack of truths! [20:36] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree, choco. THats why I think DD should have told Harry about the prophecy when LV came back (or at least shortly after) [20:36] <Danny2006> ya that is true raven [20:36] <Pleshette> And again like me said earlier, as a parent it's extremely difficult knowing when a child is ready to handle heavy issues [20:36] <Aislinn> I don't think that Harry was in a condition to take any more trauma at that point [20:36] <danielk> funny how LV told harry more about that night than DD did until the end of ootp [20:36] *** harrmione55 has joined #lounge [20:36] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, Aislinn [20:36] <fawkes28> true, pleshette [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> harry was pretty messed up [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> wb herrmione [20:36] <memyslfnI> he was protecting him to the best of his ability, because he loves Harry. Think about laying that on a teenager, they are just not ready. [20:36] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Oh, I'm not a parent, so I can't understand that just yet Pleshette [20:36] <T-marie> yes pleshette...i agree [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> yes Pleshette, DD struggled with that [20:37] <cbm> I think he should of told harry at the beginning of OotP, but if he had told Harry, OotP would have been a very short book ) [20:37] <Joyhawk2121> he knows how his parents died I think he could handle that news [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> right me [20:37] <danielk> that is the problem with fools who love [20:37] <danielk> lol [20:37] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well, I can certainly understand why DD didn't tell him right away. But at the cery latest at the start of OotP. THink about how Harry felt over hte summer. [20:37] <Pleshette> It's really hard sometimes (i have 4) [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> lol cbm [20:37] <fawkes28> Do you think that Dumbledore's love for Harry is related to his feelings for Harry's parents? [20:37] <memyslfnI> I think Dd was angry at himself a bit, that he ALLOWED himself to care so much for Harry. [20:37] <Pleshette> wink [20:37] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Yes [20:37] <danielk> partially fawkes [20:37] <TheAzkabanDietitian> and no [20:37] <danielk> but he would have loved harry in the end just as much, i think [20:37] <cbm> Probably somewhat [20:38] <memyslfnI> Harry's love was contageous. [20:38] <TheAzkabanDietitian> lol, true mems [20:38] <memyslfnI> He was not prepared for it [20:38] <Pleshette> I think that's where they began, but grew from there [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> I think DD may feel responsible in some way for their deaths, or at least for his lack of being able to prevent them [20:38] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, though I think he would still love Harry if he had not know Lily and James. I think that part of his affection for Harry even as a baby had to do with his parents. [20:38] <Danny2006> i think his (DD) love stems for the fact he knows what harry has had to deal with his hole life [20:38] <ProngsPatronus> I think that, while he respected Lily and james, he did not love them the way he loved harry [20:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> No... i like to think that the potters were good wizards, but nothing TOO out of the ordinary in terms of Dumbledore's view... the Longbottoms defied LV three times, too, and Dumbledore doesn't show the same love for Neville [20:38] <memyslfnI> I agree PP [20:38] <CarpeDiem> I think Dumbledore my be carrying around a great deal of guild over Harry's parent's deaths. I think in many many ways he feels responsible. I think that alos drove him to do so well with Harry though. [20:38] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I agree Prongs [20:38] <Aislinn> I think that he cared for Lily and James, and would have loved their son like he does all of his students, but Harry turned out to be so much more than he bargained for [20:38] <TheAzkabanDietitian> true Prongs, I think there's a part of Harry that is more special to DD than the Potters ever were [20:39] <Pleshette> That's certainly true Danny [20:39] <memyslfnI> yes aislinn! [20:39] <ProngsPatronus> DD needed to experience the kind of love he had for Harry [20:39] <Danny2006> maybe thats what he was talking about when he was drinking the green liquid in the cave? [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> mind meld carpe wink [20:39] <futureweasley> I think that DD loved and respected James and Lily...but I don't think that he had any idea how his love would grow for Harry [20:39] <CarpeDiem> Whoot DD smile [20:39] <cbm> Maybe he suggested Sirius for the secret keeper and felt guilty over that, I think he suggest the charm [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> i think that's part of it danny [20:39] <Danny2006> ummm [20:39] <Ravenclaws_Heir> agreed, future [20:39] *** harrmione55 has quit [Bye] [20:39] <danielk> just testing the font [20:39] <memyslfnI> The love that Harry readiates is not common. it is what sets Harry apart. DD knew about it, but was not prepared for how it would effect him [20:39] <Danny2006> u know "its all my fault" "kill me insted" [20:40] <Aislinn> exactly memyslfnI [20:40] <Ravenclaws_Heir> yes, memyselfnI [20:40] <CarpeDiem> Yep, that's a popular theory Danny [20:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I bet he started caring a lot for both the Potters and the Longbottoms, knowing that one of their children would be the chosen one... I wonder why he seems to not give neville the light of day? we don't really see neville's pov, of course... [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> right, danny I think he felt responsible for deaths of people he loved [20:40] <Danny2006> really i have never heard it befor [20:41] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:41] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:41] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Not so, CD, I think that Neville is just not in a place anymore where he is in such danger as Harry [20:41] <Danny2006> maybe we will find out that he has been looking out for neville to [20:41] <T-marie> you know...i see the love from DD to harry....but throughout the books...i never really feel that harry really loves anybody....until ginny.....he is too angry [20:41] <TheAzkabanDietitian> or at least for the most part throughout [20:41] <T-marie> even jealous of ron and hermione [20:41] <memyslfnI> I think he has Danny! [20:41] <CarpeDiem> I've wondered that as well Choclate...I wonder just how different DD's relationship is with Harry than with someone like Neville. I wonder if he's ever sat down and had a few laughs with the Weasly twins? smile [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> Harry's continually putting himself in danger in place of others T-marie [20:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha, i can totally see that! [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> I think that's from love [20:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> No doubts here, CD... XD [20:42] <fawkes28> Do you think that Dumbledore helped Harry develop his greatest strength - love? Why or why not? [20:42] <memyslfnI> The plug he got that point them over the edge in house points in book one shows this! [20:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> No. [20:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Harry had it all along [20:42] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think he has been as intimate with anyone as he has with harry [20:42] <T-marie> but isn't he defying DD every time [20:42] <memyslfnI> I agree PP [20:42] <danielk> i agree, harry had the love all along [20:42] *** Pellinore has quit [Bye] [20:42] <cbm> It did not need developing, it was there [20:42] <Joyhawk2121> no I think that just who Harry is [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> yes, by example [20:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think dumbledore is helping harry SEE it, and is adding a bit to the number of people who love Harry, but the love comes from within HArry [20:42] <Danny2006> ya i do think he did for reasons unknown yet but i assume it is because that is what will beat LV [20:42] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that harry has had it within him all along, but DD has helped him to see the importatnce of it and develop it even more [20:42] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Yes, Harry seems to shrug it off, doesn't he? [20:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, RH [20:42] <ProngsPatronus> I think that DD brought out that love in Harry--and showed him that it was all right to be like that [20:43] <TheAzkabanDietitian> DD does remind him of it's presence and it's power [20:43] *** Pellinore has joined #lounge [20:43] <ProngsPatronus> lovedies if it is not fed [20:43] <danielk> how do you change your font color? [20:43] <DumbleDebbie> wb pellinore [20:43] <ProngsPatronus> DD fed harry throughout their relationship [20:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha prongs.. i was like "what are lovedies?" [20:43] <Danny2006> i think its so u can tell whos who [20:43] <Ravenclaws_Heir> PRess the << on the right of the text bar. You'll see a drop down menu [20:43] <danielk> ty [20:43] <Danny2006> oh [20:43] <danielk> test [20:44] <danielk> ok that is better smile [20:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> look at you... all colorful [20:44] <memyslfnI> I agree Aislinn. its not looks, quidditch ability, wizarding skills, smarts etc! Love is the Higher ruler as bono would say! [20:44] <danielk> i feel special [20:44] <Pleshette> smile [20:44] <ProngsPatronus> hear, hear, M! [20:44] <Aislinn> LOL [20:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think dumbledore was important in showing harry his parent's love, and the weasley's love [20:44] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:44] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:45] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Perhaps that is why there was such a rift between Harry and DD relationship in OotP... DD was not feeding the love... [20:45] <TheAzkabanDietitian> LOL... That sounds weird [20:45] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Right, memyselfnI. A lot of it comes down to what Hermiones little speech said in SS/PS [20:45] <danielk> it is funny, because i really dislike JKR's reasoning for how lily saved harry [20:45] <DumbleDebbie> lol TAD [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha tad [20:45] <memyslfnI> yes RH! [20:45] <Ravenclaws_Heir> lol tad [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> shoot! what speech? [20:45] <Pleshette> I'm not sure I follow danielk [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> oh yeah [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nevermind [20:45] <danielk> that basically says that, no other person loved another as much as lily loved harry, and didnt sacrifice themself so voldy couldnt kill them [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [20:45] <Danny2006> has anyone read anything that JKR said that we have had contact with all the horcruxs some one in another room told me that she said that [20:45] <cbm> I think the rift occurred in OotP because DD was trying to shield Harry [20:46] <TheAzkabanDietitian> you mean the part where Lily CHOSE to die...? [20:46] <Ravenclaws_Heir> About why Harry has to go on, and how there are more important things that being clever (love, courage, etc. [20:46] <danielk> yes [20:46] <futureweasley> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. Also, the Corner Booth has begun a new regime of Dictatorship, and we will not be providing a poll this week for NEXT week's WWW chat. Next week's chat will be on the 7 Challenges of PS/SS as they relate to the other books...because we said so. Hope to see you there. [20:46] <fawkes28> What was the most important lesson that Dumbledore taught Harry about love? [20:46] <danielk> that means that nobody else sacrificed their lives for a loved one [20:46] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Well, daniel, it's just not one of those things that happens every day [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> that it will win [20:46] <danielk> to give their loved one a protection [20:46] <DumbleDebbie> biggrin [20:46] <memyslfnI> hmmm. thats hard! not fair fawkes! [20:46] <danielk> hmmm [20:46] <Pleshette> That he should do it? [20:46] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I may sound like a death eater but the power of it. This post has been edited by futureweasley: Feb 21 2007, 09:32 PM |
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Feb 21 2007, 09:16 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner |
[20:47] <TheAzkabanDietitian> That it is what will destroy LV, ultimately
[20:47] <Danny2006> see i think the same way Daniel sone one else has jumped in the way of a killing curse [20:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that it is like wetting your pants... everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth [20:47] <memyslfnI> Probably to realize that it is all powerful.. Have faith in the power [20:47] <TheAzkabanDietitian> What can you really teach about love? It's an enigma [20:47] <ProngsPatronus> that love is a choice--it defines Harry as the Boy Who Loved--and that active love is the most powerful force in any World [20:47] <danielk> i think JKR is just using the love angle for a good message in the book [20:47] <DumbleDebbie> I think it was important also for Harry to learn that those who love us never truly leave us [20:47] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Harry still struggles to understand the sheer power of love, and DD helps him do that. [20:47] <Aislinn> nicely put prongs [20:47] <Pleshette> Well said Prongs [20:47] <memyslfnI> yay PP! [20:47] <danielk> why is love more powerful than anything? [20:47] <Pleshette> Yes Debbie that's true [20:47] <danielk> im talking about in the books [20:48] <CarpeDiem> The most important lesson is to be on the look out for love anywhere. Not only firends and family but enemies and strangers as well. [20:48] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I got a shiver when I read that Prongs. Well said! [20:48] <memyslfnI> because you must give of yourself fully, [20:48] <danielk> it is just a message JKR uses in the books [20:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Harry doesn't even recognize his own capacity to love... he sees it as foolish sometimes, and causing him to do strange things [20:48] <T-marie> that would be a good lesson debbie [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> he draws strength from that knowledge that those he loved are still with him [20:48] <futureweasley> because it is the most essential...most potent feeling. Love drives, love makes us feel...feel more than any other emotion out there [20:48] * ProngsPatronus is blushing... [20:48] <futureweasley> Love is the most powerful because it is [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> lol Prongs [20:49] <T-marie> i just hope harry loved DD as much as DD loved him....or it was all for nothing [20:49] <danielk> so that should make you invulnerable in cerain situations [20:49] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I think DD reinforcement of Harry's power to love will help Harry believe in his ability to help overthrow Voldemort in the end... Hm... [20:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Harry's like "whatever... so what? I can love... big deal" and Dumbledore has been there to reinforce that YEAH it's a BIG deal [20:49] <Pleshette> Because it can overcome and encompass everything including evil [20:49] <danielk> i dont agree with it is my issue [20:49] <Aislinn> right, chocolate [20:49] <ProngsPatronus> evil cannot stand against love [20:49] <fawkes28> Do you think that Dumbledore's actions on the tower, particularly immobilizing Harry, were done out of love? [20:49] <danielk> i must really sound like an evil person lol [20:49] <Ravenclaws_Heir> I think that it is pretty clear that he does, T-marie [20:49] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:49] <danielk> :) [20:49] <fawkes28> of course [20:49] <TheAzkabanDietitian> It was to protect him, so yes [20:49] <fawkes28> i said so earlier laugh [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> I think you'll be convinced after DH daniel [20:49] <Joyhawk2121> of course [20:49] <Danny2006> no it was done because he knew what was about to happen [20:49] <danielk> i love being the oddball sometimes lol [20:49] <Pleshette> nah, not evil daniel, it is a hard concept to grasp [20:49] <memyslfnI> I do, fawkes! [20:49] <cbm> I think he was trying to protect harry at the rish of his own life [20:50] <danielk> hopefully i will be convinced [20:50] <DumbleDebbie> yes, he did that to save Harry from harm [20:50] <cbm> risk [20:50] <ProngsPatronus> he gave up any advantage he would have had against the DE's by taking the time to immobilise Harry [20:50] <fawkes28> dumbledore felt it was best at the time [20:50] <danielk> it is hard for a couple of reasons [20:50] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Ohh, yes. That was the ultimate act of love--he sacrificed himself to protect Harry from his own courage. [20:50] <danielk> one of them being, we see in all media that good and love conquer evil [20:50] <fawkes28> he didnt want harry to be harmed as harry needs to fulfill the prophecy [20:50] <DumbleDebbie> I think he did know what was going to happen Danny [20:50] <danielk> so too me it is just overused i guess [20:50] <futureweasley> DD needed a witness with no interference...and that "witness" needed to be Harry. I think it likely broke his heart to do that [20:50] <memyslfnI> and coupled with that is that he knows that Harry is the "one" [20:50] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'm sure it's more than that fawkes! lol [20:50] <Danny2006> do u think that fawkes is going to have a role in the next book [20:50] <memyslfnI> He needed to protect him to defeat LV. [20:50] <cbm> He did not want Harry fighting DEs that night as it might have endangered him [20:50] <danielk> some ppl think fawkes is DD [20:50] <CarpeDiem> Yes, I'm fairly certian Dumbledore had a purpose for everything done that night. All throughout HBP, there was very little that DD did that was done witou7t Harry in mind. [20:50] <danielk> fawkes the phoenix that is [20:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> there's no way of knowing without figuring out who knows what in terms of Unbreakable vows and such... if DD thought Voldemort himself was coming up the stairs, he could very well have been saving Harry [20:51] <Danny2006> i kinda want to see a fight between fawkes and nigini (spelling) [20:51] <Ravenclaws_Heir> lol daniel [20:51] <danielk> :) [20:51] <Pleshette> I believe that it conquers evil in the sense that evil cannot consume someone who loves [20:51] <cbm> :) [20:51] <danielk> nagini would get owned probably [20:51] <danielk> dont birds usually hunt, or can hunt snakes? [20:51] <fawkes28> true, pleshette [20:51] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Good point, pleshette [20:51] <Danny2006> ya [20:51] <danielk> i agree with that plesh [20:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if fawkes can beat up a basilisk... nagini would be like a worm in comparison [20:51] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Yes, the do daniel. At least some do. [20:51] <Danny2006> i hope to see fawkes go to harry [20:51] <danielk> but how does that affect magic [20:51] <Danny2006> as a pet [20:51] <DumbleDebbie> good one Pleshette [20:51] <Joyhawk2121> right evil really cant tough someone with a strong love [20:51] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'm not so sure Pleshette... people tend to fall from grace because of love lost, and hatred gained [20:52] <DumbleDebbie> and love endures beyond death [20:52] <Joyhawk2121> i mean touch sorry [20:52] <memyslfnI> ooh, azdietician! That is so true! [20:52] <danielk> evil can be just as powerful of a driving force as love [20:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> What about Anakin Skywalker... his hatred spawned from love of his mother and padme? [20:52] <memyslfnI> they are afraid to love again..it is easier to hate [20:52] <danielk> hatered resent [20:52] <danielk> those things can be just as powerful as love, in regards to emotion [20:52] <memyslfnI> its fear [20:53] <fawkes28> In some ways, Dumbledore has loved Harry as a parent-like figure. How does his "parenting" compare to other father figures in Harry's life? [20:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he's much WISER than hagrid or sirius or mr. weasley [20:53] <ProngsPatronus> certainly bwetter than Vernon's! [20:53] <DumbleDebbie> I think he's been the best example for Harry or how to be and how to live [20:53] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'd prefer Mr. Weasley as a father actually [20:53] <danielk> i dont think anybody agrees with me lol [20:53] <CarpeDiem> Good point TAD [20:53] <DumbleDebbie> I don't daniel [20:53] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well, it was certainly better than Sirius' true but misguided attempts to be a father figure to Harry [20:53] <cbm> True, DD is more the kindly Grandfather! [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> I think so too Clark [20:54] <memyslfnI> DD loved Harry, for Harry....I think Sirius focosed his love for James to Harry [20:54] <Aislinn> that is the role I see him in as well, cbm - a grandfather [20:54] <danielk> didnt DD say at the end of ootp, that harry love sirius like a father and a brother [20:54] <Pleshette> to love purely, without expecting anything in return is a higher power [20:54] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Sirius was on a playing field with a blindfold on... It's very hard to score that way [20:54] <Danny2006> ya i agree mamyslfni [20:54] <ProngsPatronus> I agree, M [20:54] <T-marie> i agree daniel [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, Sirius did get a bit confused at times LOL [20:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha daniel, it's okay... unfortunately not everything we say is commented upon unless it rocks the hizzouse [20:54] <Danny2006> he would trade harry for james anyday [20:54] <danielk> says you plesh lol [20:54] <danielk> many people with vengence would disagree (not me but others) [20:54] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Well, I think Sirius loved Harry as well as james--but Harry is just to similar to his father for Sirius to treat him differently. [20:55] <CarpeDiem> I think DD has taught him more by example than anyone. Unless perhaps if you include Vernon's lessons on how NOT to behave smile [20:55] <Pleshette> but vengeance isn't love is it? [20:55] <danielk> no no [20:55] <danielk> i am saying it can be just as powerful [20:55] <Ravenclaws_Heir> lol carpe--but good point [20:55] <memyslfnI> lol carpe! [20:55] <fawkes28> Was Dumbledore a good role model for Harry as far as demonstrating what love is? Why or why not? [20:55] <DumbleDebbie> I'm with you Pleshette smile [20:55] <danielk> just as much of a driving force to do something as the most powerful love [20:55] <DumbleDebbie> lol carpe [20:55] <memyslfnI> lupin is afraid to love harry [20:55] <Ravenclaws_Heir> YES. The best Harry could have had smile [20:55] <danielk> maybe i would be in slytherin lol [20:55] <Danny2006> ya i think so mem [20:55] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:55] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, we just said that wink. good example [20:56] <danielk> all this talk about hate and evil lol [20:56] <cbm> Yes, as I think that Dumbledore always acted out of kindness [20:56] <Pellinore> DD, while caring seemed very allof and alone. not the greatest demonstration of love. [20:56] <Joyhawk2121> at times he was [20:56] * CarpeDiem doesn't like using the past tense when refering to DD. [20:56] <danielk> well, my pizza has arrived [20:56] <danielk> so time for me to go [20:56] <danielk> bye bye [20:56] * fawkes28 neither does fawkes [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i gotta go... great chat all!!!! [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, me either carpe [20:56] <memyslfnI> bye! [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> bye choco [20:56] <Pleshette> Bye daniel All you need is love [20:56] <fawkes28> bye chocolate [20:56] <Pleshette> heehee [20:56] <danielk> lol [20:56] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Poor CD [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> lol Pleshette [20:56] * cbm doesn't either [20:56] *** danielk has quit [Bye] [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehehe plechette [20:56] <memyslfnI> what was the ?? [20:57] <Ravenclaws_Heir> DD. I think, was a very lonely person. His brilliance isolated him. I dont think we can blame him for being a bit aloof, Pellinore. [20:57] <Joyhawk2121> DD never told harry he loved him [20:57] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [20:57] <fawkes28> last question: Will we see Dumbledore's love for Harry play a role in Deathly Hallows? [20:57] <CarpeDiem> I think DD will continue to be a good rolemodel for Harry. smile His lessons will stay with Harry for all his life smile [20:57] <Ravenclaws_Heir> But Harry knew that DD did, joy [20:57] <Joyhawk2121> it's mostly through actions [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> I think he's lost people close to him and that's made him draw back to protect others from being targets [20:57] <Danny2006> some what [20:57] <ProngsPatronus> time for me to go--grweat chat, as always! [20:57] <Pleshette> Most definitely [20:57] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'm not going to hold judgement on DD's love until the end of DH [20:57] <Ravenclaws_Heir> yes yes yes yes yes yes yes [20:57] <CarpeDiem> But Joy, did he really need to say anything? [20:57] <Pleshette> Bye Prongs! [20:57] *** ProngsPatronus left #lounge [] [20:57] <Ravenclaws_Heir> bye prongs! [20:57] <memyslfnI> I hope so! I will miss DD's talks with Harry the most. i hope he gets someting like that [20:57] <cbm> I think that it will because of what it has taught Harry [20:57] <T-marie> i don't think he was alloof....but stand offish.....afraid to get too attached [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> yeah [20:58] <Joyhawk2121> I think saying it makes a difference [20:58] <TheAzkabanDietitian> Do you think DD is afraid to love too much then? [20:58] <Pleshette> Great chat everyone! Have a good one! [20:58] <fawkes28> dumbledore's love will be so important - as this has been such a focal point for the series [20:58] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [20:58] <memyslfnI> from the portrait [20:58] <CarpeDiem> I can see a huge DD portrait hanging over Harry's fireplace when all is said and done. They'll have plenty of chats smile [20:58] <DumbleDebbie> bye Pleshette [20:58] <DumbleDebbie> awww, carpe happy_crying [20:58] <Ravenclaws_Heir> bye pleshette! [20:58] <fawkes28> awww [20:58] * fawkes28 passes out the tissues [20:58] <T-marie> i do think he was a bit afraid [20:58] <Ravenclaws_Heir> thats a comforting thought, carpe [20:59] <TheAzkabanDietitian> I'm sure the portrait will have his character, but I don't think it'll have so much of his knowledge of the past, it can't [20:59] <Danny2006> carpe are u saying that harry is going to be headmaster [20:59] *** Pellinore has quit [Bye] [20:59] * Ravenclaws_Heir sniffs and takes a tissue [20:59] <futureweasley> great chat all! See you later [20:59] *** DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [20:59] <fawkes28> Thanks for coming smile [20:59] <memyslfnI> yes I do [20:59] <Joyhawk2121> great chat once again thanks [20:59] <TheAzkabanDietitian> bye all... DD is love... put it in your sigs [20:59] <T-marie> is it time to go to the chamber??? [20:59] <memyslfnI> see ya all! Gotta finish watching Idol! [20:59] <cbm> good night all!! It was fun, biggrin [20:59] <CarpeDiem> I don't think so Danny. I think he may have a portrait in the end though. Remember that the headmasters often left their portraits to visit other paintings smile [21:00] *** memyslfnI left #lounge [] [21:00] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [21:00] <Joyhawk2121> good nite all [21:00] <Danny2006> hey one more thing snape is good [21:00] <Ravenclaws_Heir> Bye guys, It was a great chat today! Thanks mods! [21:00] *** TheAzkabanDietitian has quit [Bye] [21:00] *** Ravenclaws_Heir left #lounge [] [21:00] <CarpeDiem> Time to go...thanks for a WONDERFUL chat everyone smile [21:00] <Danny2006> oh ya very true carpe [21:00] <CarpeDiem> Well done CB mods! [21:00] <T-marie> ty bye [21:00] <fawkes28> bye all smile [21:00] *** Joyhawk2121 left #lounge [] [21:00] *** CarpeDiem has quit [Bye] [21:00] <Aislinn> I'm sorry - I'm not susre if the CoC is open tonight for continued chat [21:00] <futureweasley> love ya CD [21:00] *** T-marie has quit [Bye] [21:01] *** Danny2006 has quit [Bye] This post has been edited by futureweasley: Feb 21 2007, 09:31 PM |
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