WWW Transcript - 6/13/07, Law and Justice according to Hermione Granger |
 Jun 13 2007, 06:33 PM
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Organizing the Halo Rebellion  Posts: 3,306 Joined: 2:09pm April 16, 2006 Location: Being angelic, of course   |
Today's text chat moderators were:
Aislinn Expelliarmas fawkes28 Prongs Patronus [18:59] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [19:00] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:00] <fawkes28> hello prongs [19:01] *** MattiekTLC has joined #lounge [19:01] <ProngsPatronus> hello, fawkes [19:01] <ProngsPatronus> hey, mattiek [19:01] <MattiekTLC> Hi Prongs [19:01] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [19:01] <MattiekTLC> color [19:01] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [19:01] <ProngsPatronus> hey, chocolate! [19:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Hiya prongsy! [19:02] <Love4Fawkes> Hi everyone! [19:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hmm what color today? [19:02] <fawkes28> hell everyone [19:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hell to you too [19:02] <MattiekTLC> Hello [19:02] <fawkes28> not mine , chocolate smile [19:02] <Love4Fawkes> purple for me i think [19:02] <fawkes28> oh, lol [19:02] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:02] <fawkes28> hello i meant [19:02] <Love4Fawkes> lol [19:02] <fawkes28> hey aislinn [19:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I'll go on the cool side [19:02] <Aislinn> hello [19:03] <Love4Fawkes> i like that color too chocolate [19:03] <Love4Fawkes> hi aislinn [19:03] <MattiekTLC> I'm so colorblind ;) [19:03] *** Nimthiriel has joined #lounge [19:03] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> so i just had to talk to john noe on the phone for a project... and had to force myself to not get fangirly... wtf? [19:03] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [19:03] <ProngsPatronus> hey, nimthiriel [19:04] <MattiekTLC> chocolate: I get the same way [19:04] <Nimthiriel> Hey Prongs! [19:04] <Love4Fawkes> hey nim [19:04] <Nimthiriel> hey love [19:04] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> whew... okay good lol [19:04] <Nimthiriel> *waves to everyone* [19:04] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi nimthiriel [19:04] <fawkes28> hey nim - long time no see smile [19:04] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :) [19:04] * MattiekTLC giggles [19:04] <Nimthiriel> Yeah i know, its been awhile. I've been on vacation and busy! [19:04] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast joins the gigglefest [19:05] * fawkes28 wonders why everyone is giggling today [19:05] <Nimthiriel> hehehehe [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> negative ions [19:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> how much would you pay for http://www.akeenedesign.com/images/snitch2.jpg ?? I'm thinking of making some for prophecy, but i'm not sure if anyone would buy them [19:06] * fawkes28 has never been more confused before a chat than right now [19:06] <Nimthiriel> awwww lol [19:06] <Aislinn> so, who took the wombat? [19:06] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [19:06] <Love4Fawkes> oh so funny chocolate!! [19:06] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thanks, love! [19:06] <Aislinn> hey nymph [19:06] <ProngsPatronus> hey, nymph! [19:07] <Nimthiriel> I did Aislinn [19:07] <fawkes28> i did, i did!! [19:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> funny enough to purchase?? [19:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [19:07] <nympheart> hello everyone [19:07] <Nimthiriel> I was horrified ohmy [19:07] <Nimthiriel> i know i failed LOL [19:07] <Love4Fawkes> i haven't had a chance yet. i just got home and ate dinner and got in here [19:07] *** cbm has joined #lounge [19:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it was my first WOMBAT! so much fun - i didn't feel too bad about it [19:07] <MattiekTLC> haven't taken 'em yet sad [19:07] <ProngsPatronus> hi, cbm [19:07] <fawkes28> oh, love - you should take it [19:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> howdy cbm! [19:07] <nympheart> hi cbm [19:07] <fawkes28> hey cbm [19:07] <cbm> Hi [19:07] <Love4Fawkes> i will [19:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but i'm sure once the grades come out [19:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i will [19:08] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [19:08] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:08] <fawkes28> we always do better than we think we do [19:08] <Aislinn> I thought it started off quite hard [19:08] <nympheart> The ministers were tough [19:08] <Nimthiriel> yeah it did [19:08] <cbm> I thought it was more like impossible for the 1st part [19:08] <ProngsPatronus> yeah--I figure I will gat a Harry?history of Magic grade [19:08] <Love4Fawkes> i've never taken one before. i'm scared to fail. [19:08] <fawkes28> i thought the end was the easiest [19:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i thought it was fun smile imagining Jo coming up with questions that will throw us off, and some that are clues, but we have no idea which is which, so it's all still confusing [19:09] <cbm> I got 2 ministers right [19:09] <ProngsPatronus> lol [19:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha, fudge and the 1980 one, cbm? [19:09] <cbm> yep [19:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> same here [19:09] <MattiekTLC> I hope we get chapter titles when the results come in! [19:09] <fawkes28> i am proud to say that i got fudge right! [19:09] <nympheart> I'm not sure how many I got, but at least I know I got Fudge [19:09] <fawkes28> snap nymph [19:09] <nympheart> lol [19:09] *** bubblehead has joined #lounge [19:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha, i was so dense, i answered fudge's answer for someone else, before i actually read through it and had a dumb "aha" moment [19:10] <nympheart> hi bubblehead [19:10] <Aislinn> hi bubblehead [19:10] <ProngsPatronus> hey, bubblehead [19:10] <fawkes28> hey bubblehead [19:10] <bubblehead> hi everyone [19:10] <Nimthiriel> hi bubblehead [19:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi bubblehead! [19:11] * bubblehead waves [19:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> so my new favorite hobby - going to Yahoo Answers and answering all the questions about harry potter [19:11] * MattiekTLC laughs [19:11] <MattiekTLC> chocolate: that's awesome! [19:11] <ProngsPatronus> lol chocolate [19:11] <cbm> I should go there and ask if snape is good or bad? [19:11] <Love4Fawkes> lol, you have way too much time on your hands chocolate [19:12] <bubblehead> lol chocolate [19:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> now that school's out, yes! [19:12] <fawkes28> it will say bad, cbm [19:12] <fawkes28> not to worry about that [19:12] <nympheart> if it knows what it's talking about it will [19:12] <Love4Fawkes> i'm waiting for school to be out myself. [19:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i say he wants voldemort vanquished... and putting "good" or "bad" on that is difficult sometimes, becasue of the means to the end [19:13] <ProngsPatronus> there is no good or bad--only power, and a means to an end? [19:13] <fawkes28> me too, love - lucky me getting to take 6th graders to an amusement park tomorrow eyebrow [19:13] <ProngsPatronus> very Slytherin [19:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> oh whatever, i'm ravenclaw [19:13] <cbm> That sounds interesting fawkes [19:13] <Love4Fawkes> lol, um, glad its not me [19:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> weren't you the one who wrote the essay about trusting snape, prongs? [19:13] <Nimthiriel> fun fun Fawkes [19:13] <Nimthiriel> lol [19:14] <bubblehead> ew 6th graders [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> no [19:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hmm [19:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> who was that [19:14] <Love4Fawkes> but i have a family picnic for my preschoolers tomorrow and I'm not sure that will be much more fun [19:14] <fawkes28> oh, it shall be - i may bring OotP and read in the shade while they go run around [19:14] <nympheart> fawkes, do you want to kidnap a couple of my siblings to take with you? [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> Theowyn, I think [19:14] <Love4Fawkes> sounds nice fawkes smile [19:14] <Nimthiriel> ooh good idea Fawkes [19:14] <fawkes28> we let them run around on their own and then they check in every so often to make sure they are still alive [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> lol [19:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, as we'll tell with this subject tonight, the means are sometimes not always the most moral, when the end is good... and the character is still good [19:15] *** galfawkes has joined #lounge [19:15] <Love4Fawkes> i will be entertaining high maintainence parents [19:15] <bubblehead> lol fawkes [19:15] *** galfawkes left #lounge [] [19:15] * nympheart just remembered she gets rid of them over the weekend anyway [19:15] <Aislinn> it was theowyn, for the HP7 project [19:15] <ProngsPatronus> hey, gal [19:15] <nympheart> hi gal [19:15] <Aislinn> there have been several in Scribbulus too [19:15] *** lothlorien has joined #lounge [19:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi lothlorien! [19:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :_ [19:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> :) [19:16] <Love4Fawkes> hi lothlorien [19:16] <nympheart> hi lothlorien [19:16] <bubblehead> hi lothlorien [19:16] <lothlorien> Hi, everyone! [19:16] <lothlorien> Have we started yet? [19:16] <nympheart> not quite [19:16] <fawkes28> everyone ready to chat? [19:16] <Nimthiriel> heya lothlorien [19:16] <lothlorien> Ready! [19:16] <Nimthiriel> yep! [19:16] * MattiekTLC nods [19:16] <Love4Fawkes> ready smile [19:17] <fawkes28> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon. [19:17] <fawkes28> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [19:17] <fawkes28> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:17] <fawkes28> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:17] <fawkes28> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [19:17] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione Granger is introduced to us in PS/SS as something of a bossy know-it-all. However, she takes her place as the third member of the trio after Ron and Harry battle the troll in order to save her. A firm and fast friendship is formed, and Hermione is one of the most popular characters in the series. [19:18] <ProngsPatronus> We learn quite a bit about Hermione in the series... her interests, her passions, her personality. Tonight we will be examining how Hermione approaches questions of ethics and justice. What patterns do we discern in her theory and practice? It’s time to take a look at “Dealing out Justice... Granger-Style!” [19:18] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione is the classic over-achieving student. She strives to be the best at everything (except perhaps Quidditch). How far do you think Hermione would go to earn a top grade? [19:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Time-turning, yelling at people to leave her alone [19:19] <nympheart> I don't think she'd cheat, she gets satisfaction out of being able to do it herself [19:19] <lothlorien> She would do almost anything except cheat. I don't think she could bring herself to cheat. [19:19] <fawkes28> she goes to more extremes than other people do [19:18] <Love4Fawkes> i agree nympheart. look at how upset she was at harry for using the prince's book [19:19] <bubblehead> Well Hermione wouldn't use the notes in the Prince's book for help in potions even though Harry offered [19:19] <Aislinn> I agree that Hermione would not feel that she had actually achieved the grade herself if she cheated [19:19] <Nimthiriel> Well i dont think that she would cheat [19:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> NOT cheating, and she won't stand for a certain teacher who calls her incapable of doing that type of magic [19:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> (trelawney) [19:19] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Hermione values intellectual honesty above all else [19:19] <ProngsPatronus> cheating is not in her lexicon [19:19] <Nimthiriel> But she would do probably everything that wasnt cheating or breaking any rules [19:20] <nympheart> she does do a decent amount of sucking up [19:21] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [19:21] <fawkes28> testing [19:21] <ProngsPatronus> I see you [19:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> see ya fawkes smile [19:22] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione gets very sniffy about anyone who uses an unfair advantage in the classroom (like Harry and the Potions book). Is she right about that, or should she let such things go and focus on her own work? [19:22] <lothlorien> I think there is a difference between an over achiever and someone who is gifted. Even a person of average skills and intelligence can be an over achiever, but I think Hermoine is both gifted and an over achiever. [19:22] <Love4Fawkes> i agree lothlorien [19:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think she is genuinely happier about learning than the average person, and grades are a concrete thing that measures learning and knowledge, so she wants to prove to herself and her professors, through grades, that she is intelligent [19:23] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [19:23] <Nimthiriel> Well its good that she doesnt like cheating but she cuold be a bit more reasonable about it [19:23] <nympheart> hi NYB [19:23] <cbm> I think her since of fairness gets her into trouble sometimes [19:23] <ProngsPatronus> i, NYB [19:23] <NYBookworm> hi [19:23] <fawkes28> i think she focuses plenty on her own work [19:23] <Love4Fawkes> i think that hermione has a point. if someone is going to beat her grades they should have earned it 100%, but at the same time she does go overboard about it. [19:23] <Nimthiriel> sometimes she lets others cheating get to her though [19:23] <fawkes28> yes, nim - she is a stickler for the rules [19:23] <ProngsPatronus> I think it offends her sense of herself [19:23] <bubblehead> I think that Hermione gets upset by that because she's working so hard and others can acheive the same thing with less work even if they don't deserve it [19:23] <lothlorien> She cares deeply for her friends and does not want to see them get into trouble. Where Harry is concerned, Hermoine wants to make sure he really learns all the skills. She realizes that he may one day need them more than anyone else. [19:24] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think she sets a lot of store in the fairness of the classroom setting... like anyone, she likes to be recognized for her work, and she is certainly not shy about letting anyone know that she knows the answer. [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> she works for her grade--others should work too, in her mind [19:24] <Love4Fawkes> that's for sure chocolate! [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is almost a compulsion to give the answer [19:25] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [19:25] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:25] <bubblehead> i think so too prongs [19:25] <lothlorien> I like Bubblehead [19:25] <Love4Fawkes> hermione does work very hard for her grades, and Harry and Ron don't work as hard. I'm sure it was frusturating for her to see Harry get out of it the easy way. [19:25] <cbm> She is trying to prove herself, I think that explains the answering compulsion [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> Would you characterize Hermione as an interfering sort of person? What examples have we seen in canon of Hermione sticking her nose where it doesn’t belong? [19:25] <lothlorien> I like bubblehead's point, sorry, I hit the wrong key earlier. [19:25] <Nimthiriel> Yeah it would be fawkes [19:25] <Nimthiriel> love* [19:26] <fawkes28> yes, i think she can be interfering at times [19:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Percy is a good example of someone who is willing to go extremely far in terms of rules... he would leave his family to follow the rules of the ministry, no matter if they're right or wrong... Hermione does a lot to get her grades, and doesn't like when peopel dont' follow the rules, but unlike percy, she won't compromise her morals or her friendships unless she thinks they are in real danger, like the firebolt inc [19:26] <Nimthiriel> She most definitely can be interferring but sometimes its in a good way...and usually she does mean well [19:26] <Love4Fawkes> oh she is so interferring at times! [19:26] <fawkes28> she is very motherly with the boys about getting their homework done - i believe one of the twins compared her to Molly [19:26] <Nimthiriel> but she should learn that sometimes its best to just stay out of it [19:26] <bubblehead> I don't think Hermione's nose belongs in SPEW [19:26] <Love4Fawkes> that is true nim, she does usually mean well [19:26] <nympheart> she does quite a bit of interfering with house elves [19:27] <Aislinn> I think we saw her interfering with the boys at the beginning of PS, but she has mellowed, in my opinion [19:27] <Love4Fawkes> i don't think so either bubblehead. she is taking a stand about a culture she obviously doesn't understand. [19:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she does interfere... i just have the image of her from SS/PS, hissing like a goose behind Ron and Harry during the Midnight Duel chapter [19:27] <ProngsPatronus> we will get to SPEW, I promise! [19:27] <cbm> she interfered with the firebolt [19:27] <Aislinn> she is trying to impose her views of what is right and just, in relation to the Elves - I'm not sure if that is exactly interfering though [19:27] <lothlorien> Hermoine's rule following or rule breaking is guided by her love for people and a moral compass in general, but Percy is just a rule follower. So when Hermoine interferes she is ultimately forgiven because they know she did it our of love. [19:28] <fawkes28> yes, Aislinn - she definitely has learned when it is important to interfere and when it is good to just chill out [19:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, lothlorien! [19:28] <bubblehead> Exactly. the elves don't want to be free but she thinks it's better for them so she pushes it [19:28] <Aislinn> yes, cbm, but I think she was showing logical and reasonable concern for her friend's safety, with the Firebolt [19:28] <Aislinn> exactly lothlorien! [19:28] <Love4Fawkes> i agree aislinn. she was interfering, but for their own good. [19:28] <cbm> true, but she should have discussed it with harry 1st [19:28] <Aislinn> she involves herself when she sees injustice or danger [19:29] <Love4Fawkes> she did try to cbm, he just wouldn't hear any of it. [19:29] <Aislinn> she does have a tendency to think she knows best, yes cbm [19:29] <cbm> I don't remember her trying [19:29] <lothlorien> I know Harry and Ron hated it when Hermoine told McGonagal about the firebolt he had received, but she thought it could harm him. [19:29] <ProngsPatronus> she is intelligent, but her social intelligence quotient suffers sometimes [19:29] <bubblehead> and sometimes she does know best and sometimes she doesn't [19:29] <Love4Fawkes> yes it does prongs [19:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hermione actually analyzes rules... she wants them to be followed exactly, if she deems them worthy of being followed... she does ahve the ability to analyze a rule and determine that it is breakable, like with Umbridge or with Trelawney [19:30] <fawkes28> Hermione will continue to interfere as long as she sees reason to - she cares about their well-being above all else [19:30] <Nimthiriel> Yeah agered Chocolate [19:30] <Nimthiriel> agreed* [19:30] <bubblehead> good point chocolate [19:30] <Nimthiriel> and fawkes as well [19:30] <lothlorien> Yes, fawkes [19:30] *** harrypotterfreak629 has joined #lounge [19:30] <Aislinn> yes, she did try to tell Harry that the broom might be dangerous and that he should be careful [19:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi freak! [19:30] <fawkes28> hello harrypotterfreak629 [19:30] <harrypotterfreak629> hey guys [19:30] <lothlorien> Hi, Harry! [19:30] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione is a hard worker, and seems to expect everyone to match her standard. Is this fair? Does she need to lighten up, as Ron frequently says? Or is her work ethic admirable and an example to other students? [19:31] <nympheart> I think it is admirable, but she can't expect everyone to value the same things she does [19:31] <cbm> I think her work ethic is admirable, but she should not expect it of others [19:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think her work ethic is unique to her... we don't want everyone working like she does! Not everyone has a personality like hers [19:31] <Love4Fawkes> i think her work ethic is admirable, but she does need to understand that not everyone cares to work that much and allow each person to work to their own standards. [19:31] <bubblehead> I think that she is admirable but it wouldn't kill her to have some fun and play with a fanged frisbee once in a while [19:31] <lothlorien> Every class has that kid or small group of kids who are the smartest. I think most roll their eyes about her and get on with their own business. [19:32] <Aislinn> I agree, cbm, she needs to understand that everyone has their own strengths, and approaches [19:32] <harrypotterfreak629> i think that she is admirable for her ethic... but she expects too much of harry and ron [19:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she tends to think that a lot of people should think and act like she does, doesn't she [19:32] *** MattiekTLC has quit [Bye] [19:32] <harrypotterfreak629> i think so chocolate [19:32] <Love4Fawkes> yes she does chocolate. she is not that good of seeing things from another's point of view [19:33] <lothlorien> She does have a tendency, as she gets older to jugde whether something is worth learning or not. Take Quidditch and Divination for example. [19:33] <harrypotterfreak629> especially her guy friends [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think she sees a lot of potential in both Harry and Ron--and is almost hurt that they do not love learning as much as she does [19:33] *** RudiusHagrid has joined #lounge [19:33] <bubblehead> i agree prongs [19:33] <Love4Fawkes> i agree prongs, and she also knows harry is going to need it! [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> in that, she is akin to DD--no equal, no one she can share that thirst for knowledge [19:33] <lothlorien> Hi, Rudius. [19:33] <nympheart> hi Rudius [19:33] <bubblehead> Hi Rudius [19:33] <RudiusHagrid> hi all [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> hey, Rudius [19:33] <Nimthiriel> I think she should lighten up a bit...not everyone is the same...but she does mean wel when trying to force Harrya dn Ron to study...it is for their own good [19:34] <Nimthiriel> lagging badly...brb [19:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> knowledge is her drug of choice [19:34] <Love4Fawkes> hi rudius and I agree nim [19:34] <ProngsPatronus> yes, chocolate [19:34] <bubblehead> lol chocolate [19:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> has to get her fix [19:34] <nympheart> Tom Riddle could actually probably rival her for that [19:34] *** Nimthiriel left #lounge [] [19:34] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione is, in general, very much a rule-follower, especially early in the series. She doesn’t seem to admit many exceptions. Do you think this is a good quality, or is she inflexible and unable to make distinctions about what’s really important? [19:34] <harrypotterfreak629> lol nymph [19:34] <lothlorien> Harry and Ron are gifted in their own ways. At least with Harry, Hermoine sees this. She is the one who asks him to teach DADA. She does not offer to do it herself. [19:35] <Love4Fawkes> in the beginning she was inflexible, but she's come a long ways! [19:35] <fawkes28> i think that she brings a different perspective into the series than harry and ron do - she balances them out [19:35] <fawkes28> yes, she has, Love [19:35] <nympheart> I think she learned that sometimes rules need to be bent for the greater good [19:35] <cbm> I think she has become more flexible over time, but she still seems to defer to authority [19:35] <fawkes28> and she realizes what is important to her like friends [19:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> She's flexible, like i said before... she chooses what rule is worthy of following. she is able to discern rubbish from fact, even from teachers or newspapers or other adults that other students would usually say "okay, they said it, so it must be true" [19:35] <Love4Fawkes> that is true fawkes. without hermione i think harry and ron would have practically flunked out before they studied! [19:35] <harrypotterfreak629> true... look at the 5thmovie previews [19:36] *** Nimthiriel has joined #lounge [19:36] <ProngsPatronus> wb, nim [19:36] <harrypotterfreak629> not that that really ahs any bearing on the actual book... but it is a good representation of how far she could come [19:36] <fawkes28> i think hermione has become flexible - you have to be around the two people she is friends with [19:36] <ProngsPatronus> How would you characterize Hermione’s moral development in the series? Would you call the trend positive or negative? [19:36] <lothlorien> Even in SS she participated in their late night antics, not always happy about it. I think she began to see times when it was necessary to break the rules early on, but we see more of it in later books. [19:36] *** penguin1124 has joined #lounge [19:36] <penguin1124> hey [19:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> compared to Percy, the book's ultimate rule-follower, Hermione is very flexible and moral [19:36] <ProngsPatronus> hey, penguin [19:36] <harrypotterfreak629> hey penguin!! [19:37] <bubblehead> hi penguin [19:37] <harrypotterfreak629> i agree chocolate [19:37] <Nimthiriel> I think she has improved [19:37] <nympheart> I'd call it positive, she's developed her own morals more rather than the ones that are enforced [19:37] <Love4Fawkes> I think it is postive! She's learned that some things are more important than the rules. [19:37] <Aislinn> I think that her morality has been tempered by more love and understanding than it was ealier in the series [19:37] <lothlorien> Positive. more balanced. Hi Penguin. [19:37] <ProngsPatronus> well, I think she went along to look after them, not because she wanted to break the rules herself [19:37] <cbm> Very positive [19:37] <ProngsPatronus> more adult [19:37] <bubblehead> I think that Hermione has always taked the moral highroad but now she realizes that some things are worth breaking the school rules for [19:37] <harrypotterfreak629> she has understood that imposed rules don;t always work for the situation [19:37] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> she's allowed herself to delve into more immoral things to achieve a moral end... blackmailing Rita Skeeter, for one... [19:38] <harrypotterfreak629> very true [19:38] <bubblehead> taken* [19:38] <bubblehead> good point chocolate [19:38] <ProngsPatronus> The teachers perceive Hermione as a model, rule-abiding student. McGonagall is shocked that she would take on a troll in PS/SS (even though it wasn’t true). Hermione did lie in this instance. Was it justified? [19:38] *** penguin1124 has quit [Bye] [19:38] <NYBookworm> I think it's gone from concrete rules to abstract values [19:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I hate this lie... why would HArry and Ron get in trouble for saving Hermione?? [19:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and why would she get in trouble for crying in the bathroom? [19:38] <bubblehead> I don't see why she lied here [19:38] <Love4Fawkes> I'm not sure it was justified, but it was a loyal thing to do. [19:38] <cbm> I think so, but I still do not understand why she did it [19:38] <harrypotterfreak629> neither do i [19:38] <ProngsPatronus> I think she doctored the truth, but it is true that they were there because of her [19:39] <lothlorien> I think her moral compass, and the brave actions that result from it, are the reason Hermoine is in Gryffindor and not Ravenclaw. [19:39] <nympheart> I don't really understand what she was trying to save them from, but it was a gesture of loyalty to Ron and Harry that completely changed their relationship [19:39] <fawkes28> i think she realized that they cared enough about her to come rescue her - that she justified lying [19:39] <Aislinn> I think she knew that the boys were much more likely to get in trouble for taking on the troll than she was [19:39] <harrypotterfreak629> i think it was a gesture more than "saving" them [19:39] <fawkes28> if she had blamed them, i do not know if they ever could have become such great friends [19:39] <ProngsPatronus> I think she realised that, and responded to it [19:39] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think so too, freak [19:39] <cbm> sounds good to me fawkes, plus it kept ron out of trouble for being a git earlier [19:39] <Love4Fawkes> i think it did safe the boys from a serious scolding and she only got a mild one. [19:39] <harrypotterfreak629> lol... true [19:40] <cbm> I think Ron would have gotten the scolding [19:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the boys might have been told that they should have stayed in the dormitories if they thought hermione might not know about the troll... but if she said that she went looking for the troll, it allows for the boys to have gone after her [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> In Chamber of Secrets, Hermione proposes the Polyjuice Potion as a means of interrogating Malfoy. She fibs to Lockhart, deceives Madam Pince, steals from Snape, and then secretly brews a potion in the girls’ lavatory. What does this say about our Hermione? [19:41] *** caltheous has joined #lounge [19:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> means to an end! she's all about it [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> hey, caltheous [19:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi caltheous!!! [19:41] <fawkes28> hey caltheous [19:41] <caltheous> Hi all! [19:41] <Love4Fawkes> lol, she doesn't mind breaking the rules if she thinks the end is more important! [19:41] *** immaHPfreak has joined #lounge [19:41] <fawkes28> that she had a very eye-opening first year [19:41] <bubblehead> Hermione is learning how to bend the rules to acheive the end [19:41] <harrypotterfreak629> very true [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> hey, imma [19:41] <cbm> I think she did it so that everyone would quit accusing Harry [19:41] <Aislinn> hey caltheous and immaHPfreak [19:41] <immaHPfreak> hello all [19:41] <Nimthiriel> Well she had a good reason to do that [19:41] <nympheart> She's more interested in the greater good than abiding by the rules, she's begun to see what is more important [19:42] <lothlorien> She saw a way to find out what Malfoy knew about the heir of Slytherin, and she took control of things. [19:42] <fawkes28> also that she is willing to take the risk to see justice served [19:42] <ProngsPatronus> I think she is learning the difference between rules and true moral behaviour [19:42] <fawkes28> even if it involves being dishonest [19:42] <harrypotterfreak629> i'm sure her grudge against malfoy also helped [19:42] <ProngsPatronus> which sometimes has nothing to do with rules [19:42] <immaHPfreak> yeah justice is the key term there... because justice is more important than law.. theres a big difference [19:42] <cbm> If they found out about the heir from Malfoy, they would prove it was not Harry [19:42] <fawkes28> oh, yes, prongs - she is moving up the stages in moral development [19:42] <bubblehead> i agree prongs [19:43] <immaHPfreak> as a matter of fact some laws or not justified at all... as the ministry proves in many of the books.. like arresting stan shunpike [19:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> funny how when she does the lying and dishonesty, it's seen as a good means to an end, but when a certain professor might have killed a certain headmaster as a means to an end, it couldn't possibly be good ;) [19:43] <caltheous> I think some people are better equiped to break rules than others - tha tosme are better able to know what is wrong and what is right. [19:43] <lothlorien> You gotta admit, there is real guts to Hermoine's rule breaking. When she does break rules, some sort of danger seems to ensue. [19:43] *** idtotallybeinravenclaw has joined #lounge [19:43] <fawkes28> hello idtotallybeinravenclaw [19:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi totally [19:43] <bubblehead> nice chocolate [19:43] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> hello [19:43] <nympheart> hi ravenclaw [19:43] <harrypotterfreak629> het ravenclaw [19:43] <lothlorien> hi, raven [19:43] <harrypotterfreak629> **hey [19:43] <ProngsPatronus> I think that is more ethics, chocolate [19:43] <bubblehead> hi idtotallybeinravenclaw [19:43] <cbm> If Hermione had killed Skeeter, I would think she was bad also [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> hermione may break rules, but she doesn't kill a wandless opponent [19:44] <harrypotterfreak629> very true [19:44] <lothlorien> me, too , cbm [19:44] <immaHPfreak> well yeah [19:44] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> hello bubble and hpfreak [19:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> if skeeter asked for it, though, then i might change my mind [19:44] <immaHPfreak> hi [19:44] *** mollywobbles23 has joined #lounge [19:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hi mollywobbley [19:44] <caltheous> Haven't you noticed how some people just aren't good at figureing out on their own when it's ok to break rules? [19:44] *** mollywobbles23 has quit [Bye] [19:44] *** mollywobbles23 has joined #lounge [19:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yes, caltheous! [19:45] <lothlorien> Her mind knew that blackmailing Rita was likely to be of more help to them...still smart and wise. [19:45] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> like hermione sometimes [19:45] <immaHPfreak> now murder is never right... i think jk is trying to make that clear... harry spared peter [19:45] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione, being the cleverest witch of her age, was the only student to discover the truth about Professor Lupin. She kept this information to herself for months, not even telling Ron or Harry. Do you think this reveals a tendency to keep her own counsel? [19:45] <immaHPfreak> and harry doesnt like the idea of murdering voldemort though he has enough hatred to do it... [19:45] <harrypotterfreak629> definately [19:45] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> Well, she didn't see any good in revealing it [19:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Harry is one of them... he's always willing to do somethign silly, like go into azkaban for fun, when a murderer is looking for him [19:45] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> He was controlling it [19:45] <harrypotterfreak629> exactly [19:45] <ProngsPatronus> not her story to tell [19:45] <bubblehead> I think that she was saving Lupin's reputation and dignity [19:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> not azkaban! hogsmeade [19:45] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> So what good would it do to blow it out in the open? [19:45] <fawkes28> i think she only tells secrets when it is absolutely necessary [19:45] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> Exactly bubblehead [19:45] <harrypotterfreak629> she knew what others would do if they found out [19:45] <fawkes28> there was no reason to tell the boys so why would she [19:45] <lothlorien> Absolutely, she liked Lupin, was learning from him, and he did not seem to be an immediated danger....She saw no reason to tell anyone. [19:46] <Love4Fawkes> i think it showed the respect she had for lupin [19:46] <immaHPfreak> i think hermione is different than ron and harry in that when she keeps something from ron and harry its really not mischievous of her.. its more so responsible [19:46] * idtotallybeinravenclaw thinks Lupin rocks [19:46] <harrypotterfreak629> and she probably knew the hardships he had b4 this job [19:46] <fawkes28> yes, Love - she respected him greatly as a teacher [19:46] <immaHPfreak> sure harry and ron probably wouldnt have done anything about lupin being a werewolf.. but its Lupin's secret and therefore no one else's business [19:46] <bubblehead> It also showed that she trusted Lupin despite the bad rep werewolves have [19:46] <Nimthiriel> Yeah i agree Love [19:46] <Love4Fawkes> she knew ron would freak out if he heard Lupin was a werewolf so she had to keep quiet. [19:46] <ProngsPatronus> I think she trusted DD enough to trust his choice of teacher [19:46] <harrypotterfreak629> exactly [19:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> definitely - she knew about Lupin, she knew about Ginny liking Harry, she knew about Harry liking Cho... she can certainly keep her mouth shut [19:47] <Love4Fawkes> she is a very trustworthy person [19:47] <fawkes28> they were also still building their relationship with each other - i think if this happened in the 6th book, she may have told them [19:47] *** lothlorien has quit [Bye] [19:47] <caltheous> I think she was just showing Lupin respect by keeping his secret. [19:47] <idtotallybeinravenclaw> bye guys [19:47] <harrypotterfreak629> she looks up to DD so why should it be bad to have this guy who is obviously a great teacher? [19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> bye ravenclaw [19:47] <Love4Fawkes> that's a good point fawkes [19:47] <immaHPfreak> yeah tusting dumbledore... like hermione also never told ron and harry about her time turner either.. .because she was just keeping her word and being responsible - it was very mature [19:47] *** idtotallybeinravenclaw has quit [Bye] [19:47] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione joins Ron and Harry in expelliarmussing Snape into oblivion in the Shrieking Shack. Did this surprise you? Why or why not? [19:47] <harrypotterfreak629> yes and no [19:48] <Love4Fawkes> your right immaHPfreak, very mature. even at 25 i'm not sure i could have kept that a secret from my best friends. [19:48] <harrypotterfreak629> she saw the threat and acted before thinking [19:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> no, because she immediately freaked out attacking him [19:48] <immaHPfreak> it surprised me just because i wasnt thinking of it... but then once they did it, it suited both of them very well... they're a team those 3 [19:48] <cbm> It was obvious that snape was being unreasonable [19:48] *** mollywobbles23 has quit [Bye] [19:48] <ProngsPatronus> grin--I thought it was a measure of how tired Hermione had grown of his vitriol [19:48] <immaHPfreak> yeah right love4fawkes? id wanna tell too. [19:48] <harrypotterfreak629> very true hpfreak [19:48] <caltheous> Vitriol - Nice! [19:48] <nympheart> It showed how united they all are, but I was surprised, usually Hermione just freezes when threatened [19:49] <Love4Fawkes> i'll be back. got to put my son to bed. [19:49] *** Love4Fawkes has quit [Bye] [19:49] <immaHPfreak> yeah they are extremely united [19:49] <harrypotterfreak629> same here nymph [19:49] <immaHPfreak> its so impressive [19:49] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast loves the shrieking shack [19:49] <immaHPfreak> mm okay [19:49] <cbm> Vitriol is a great word for snape in those chapters [19:49] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione acted, rather than allowed her mind to get in the way [19:49] <fawkes28> hermione also wanted to hear the truth [19:49] <fawkes28> and i bet she was thinking that they were off of school property [19:49] * bubblehead agrees with chocolate [19:49] <immaHPfreak> yeah exactly [19:49] <harrypotterfreak629> very true [19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that was it, fawkes [19:49] <ProngsPatronus> yes--the truth was more important to her than Snape's ambitions [19:49] <immaHPfreak> and she followed her instincts too.. which with hermione, her instincts are usually right [19:50] <nympheart> especially when Harry was involved [19:50] <cbm> Not in HBP [19:50] *** RudiusHagrid has quit [Bye] [19:50] <immaHPfreak> yeah [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> Goblet of Fire introduces us to Hermione’s S.P.E.W. campaign to free the house-elves. What do you think of Hermione’s sympathy for the elves? Is it rightly or wrongly placed? [19:50] <Nimthiriel> Yeah I agree Prongs [19:50] <bubblehead> ohhhh SPEW [19:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yeah, HBP was a complete reversal in instincts... i never would have guessed Draco was a DE because Harry guessed it so early [19:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> told you we would get to it! [19:50] <Nimthiriel> Well she obviously felt bad for them..but she really took it too far [19:50] <nympheart> she is trying to do what's right, but she has no idea what she's trying to do [19:50] <caltheous> I think SPEW is great. Something that has to happen. [19:50] <immaHPfreak> i think sure.. their rights should be fought for... but you shouldnt force your idead on otheres [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> I think her heart is in the right place, actually [19:51] <cbm> The sympathy was good, but her methods were very off [19:51] <fawkes28> it became a really bad obsession [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> her methods, though leave something to be desired [19:51] <fawkes28> it took a lot of focus out of her and really drained her [19:51] <caltheous> The way the elves are treated is wrong. [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> yes, it is [19:51] <bubblehead> she should stop with the SPEW [19:51] <immaHPfreak> yeah her heart is in the right place but her stubborness really gets in the way [19:51] <NYBookworm> I think it's very typical teenage I can change the whole world idealism [19:51] <caltheous> Her methods are comic relief. [19:51] <bubblehead> they like being enslaved [19:51] <nympheart> not all of them are treated like Dobby was [19:51] <fawkes28> i think it would have been better if she had pursued it after Hogwarts [19:51] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that getting elves excited about it, rather than wizards, is what she needs to do... it's almost impossible to free someone who doesn't want to be freed.. they have to choose it [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> slavery is wrong, period [19:51] <nympheart> and even Dobby says he likes work better than being paid [19:51] <caltheous> That's a good point Fawkes [19:52] <ProngsPatronus> I think that was Hermione's rationale [19:52] <immaHPfreak> i think that a lot of house elves are born with the nature of serving.. but that doesnt mean they should be treated less.. [19:52] <harrypotterfreak629> bye guys [19:52] <cbm> I am not sure that most of them could survive on their own [19:52] *** harrypotterfreak629 has quit [Bye] [19:52] <immaHPfreak> yeah but theres a big difference between slavery and serving [19:52] <nympheart> I agree cbm [19:52] <caltheous> They should not be slaves - Hermione will get somewhere with SPEW... It's funny now but it has meaning. [19:52] <immaHPfreak> it's almost like their magical duty [19:52] <cbm> didn't she check this idea with Dumbledore? [19:53] <immaHPfreak> not all elves will want those rights though thats what you have to realize if you ask me [19:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the physical abuse is what gets to me... why do they need to do it? it's a sign that something is definitely wrong [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione seems determined to liberate the house-elves even against their will. Is this justice, or something else? [19:53] <immaHPfreak> but the elves who want freedom.. sure they should have it, but there doesnt seem to be many of thenm [19:53] <immaHPfreak> agreed about the physical abuse [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> I think she hoists the elves on the petard of her own moral compass [19:53] <bubblehead> she shouldn't force them into freedom if they dont want it. [19:54] <nympheart> I wouldn't call it justice if the elves are so offended and afraid of being free [19:54] <immaHPfreak> yeah [19:54] <caltheous> Prongs - elaborate, that's interesting. [19:54] <immaHPfreak> yeah they are actually offended... thats not the right thing to do either [19:54] <fawkes28> I think Hermione feels that they are not educated and wants to do everything she can so that they see both sides of the situation before making a good decision [19:54] <ProngsPatronus> her stance against slavery is absolute [19:54] <immaHPfreak> if she wanted spew to be really truly successful and influential she'd have to bend to the truth a bit [19:54] <caltheous> Shouldn't it be. [19:54] <ProngsPatronus> yes [19:54] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [19:55] <nympheart> they still don't see freedom as a good decision, even though with Dobby present they know it's an option [19:55] <ProngsPatronus> however--the elves have to want freedom, too [19:55] <fawkes28> hey cloudpic [19:55] <ProngsPatronus> hey, cloudpic! [19:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> sometimes, children want to be with a parent rather than with a foster parent, even if their parent is sometimes abusive or a drug user... even when given the choice, a child would rather stay with what they know, because they fear the unknown and because they choose to focus on the good part of their parent, rather than the bad.... house elves are trapped by their comfort, customs, and by a powerful magic. They w [19:55] <nympheart> hi cloudpic [19:55] <Nimthiriel> Well she thinks that its justice, but i think its a bit more than that in reality...its something probably to make her feel better about as well [19:55] <immaHPfreak> interesting chocolate [19:55] * cloudpic waves to all [19:55] <bubblehead> good point chocolate [19:55] <fawkes28> do you think it was selfish motives then, Nimthiriel? [19:56] <ProngsPatronus> I think tricking them into freedom, though, defeats the moral stance she takes [19:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think the house elves focus on what they like, to dull the abuse and the unfairness [19:56] <ProngsPatronus> one can go too far with "doing it for someone's own good" [19:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> taking children from their parents can seem immoral, but good in the long run [19:56] <caltheous> Chocolate - that's what i think too. It seems like they should be free to choose... and get paid. [19:56] <immaHPfreak> and i do agree that hermione thinks maybe they aren't educated or something... but i think after shes learned a little bit about them now, she should realize they are very strong and almost wise creatures.. they know so much about what's going on.. and for hermione to ignore that is just kind of her stubborness.. she hates being wrong.. she's so srtong-willed and self-assured ya know? [19:56] <bubblehead> i agree with prongs [19:57] <cbm> we have only seen one elf that was abused, the ones at hogwarts are not abused [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> but they are not free, either [19:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the self-abuse i mean, the inability to choose to defy their master [19:57] <cloudpic> It's a dilemma, though [19:57] <immaHPfreak> no but thats part of their magice [19:57] <caltheous> That's true cbm - why would Dd have slaves? Seems odd. [19:57] <immaHPfreak> not being free is part of their magic so its a strange thing to debate [19:57] <bubblehead> Hermione even saw what happened to Winky after she was freed and Winky went into depression, but Hermione still thought it was better for her [19:57] <cloudpic> How do you show someone the advantage of freedom if they don't know what it feels like and fear it [19:57] <cbm> very true on the freedom, but what if magically they can not be free [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> there are servants, and then there are slaves [19:57] *** Love4Fawkes has joined #lounge [19:58] <immaHPfreak> right bubblehead [19:58] <nympheart> that's a good point, bubblehead [19:58] <fawkes28> wb, Love [19:58] <Love4Fawkes> thanks [19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> exactly, cloudpic... how do you tell a colorblind person the difference between red and green? [19:58] <cbm> If I release my dog from my ownership, that would be bad, so it comes down to the point are the elves capable of being free [19:58] <nympheart> we now that Winky at least longs to feel like she's needed, and being freed was to be rejected [19:59] *** Aislinn has quit [Bye] [19:59] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [19:59] <immaHPfreak> yeah but see i feel like thats talking about them like theyre disabled or something.. why can't it jsut be instinct to serve... they seem so happy to bring ron ah harry treats in the kitcjen [19:59] <cloudpic> I think it is more a fear of the unknown which keeps them bound [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> house elves have ridiculiously powerful magic, though... i can't see them unable to survive [19:59] <ProngsPatronus> Hermione is of considerable help to Harry in the 1st and 3rd Tri-Wizard tasks. Do you think this was cheating, since Harry was not supposed to have assistance in completing the tasks? [19:59] <Love4Fawkes> i agree immaHPfreak. it is instinct to serve. it is their culture. [19:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, he wasn't supposed to be chosen, so i think she allowed for some leniency... and harry's life was on the line [19:59] <immaHPfreak> i dont think they're dumb.. i think they know what freedom is like, but thats not their fate.. and of course there will be some different elves just as there are different people... and those elves should also be listened to and respected [20:00] <fawkes28> but Harry was too young anyway and did not have a choice in participating - so it is completely justified that he receive help from his friends [20:00] <cloudpic> The arguement that it is "natural" to wish to serve was used to justify enslavement in many slave-holding socieities [20:00] <bubblehead> I've gotta go. bye everyone! [20:00] <nympheart> I think Hermione thought Harry was at an age disadvantage and I don't think she expected the other champions to play according to the rules [20:00] <Love4Fawkes> technically it was cheating, but given Harry's disadvantage and the fact that everyone else got help, i think it was ok. [20:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> there were no homework grades involved smile [20:00] <caltheous> I think they have to be freed. Even if they don't want to be. I agree with Hermione. [20:00] <cloudpic> bye, bubblehead [20:00] *** bubblehead left #lounge [] [20:00] <cbm> I do not think it was cheating, she was just teaching him spells [20:00] <nympheart> lol, chocolate [20:01] <immaHPfreak> i disagree coudpic.. i've never met a slave-descendant who said it was natural... maybe slave owners who said that... but elves themselves are saying they dont want the freedoms and rights of humans [20:01] <cloudpic> The other participants had already been taught the same spells by their teachers as they were older [20:01] <Love4Fawkes> i do not think there were many slaves who cried out of anguish when they were freed. house elves on the other hand do [20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, what if the humans all just decide to free the elves, and let them serve as free elves, and not under the magic of slavery? [20:01] <cbm> I think hermione would have been better off finding a way to modify the magic of the elves [20:01] <nympheart> Also less altruistically, Hermione likes to be at the top of the ladder, and since she wasn't competing it wasn't like Harry could beat her [20:02] <immaHPfreak> yeah i think it was cheating.. but everyone else was cheating and honestly... she was probably more concerned about harry surviving if you ask me [20:02] <Love4Fawkes> the elves would be insulted chocolate [20:02] <fawkes28> i dont think hermione would have wanted to compete if she could [20:02] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> they can still serve the family, just not as slaves... they would be able to defy their masters, but they would choose not to, not because of their inhibiting, self abusive magic [20:02] <Nimthiriel> I dont think so either Fawkes [20:02] <fawkes28> this event is definitelty more up Harry's alley than hers [20:03] <immaHPfreak> it's not human magic of slavery cloudpic.. its the eleves own magic.. who are we to say what freedom is to an elf? maybe freedom to an elf is to be left alone to serve.. we cannot assume to share the same values as otherse [20:03] <ProngsPatronus> the current question: Hermione is of considerable help to Harry in the 1st and 3rd Tri-Wizard tasks. Do you think this was cheating, since Harry was not supposed to have assistance in completing the tasks? [20:03] <fawkes28> she is perfectly content helping on the sidelines [20:03] <nympheart> definitely, fawkes [20:03] <Love4Fawkes> she really is isn't she fawkes. she never asks to be in the lime light. [20:03] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it's cheating, but cheating is allowed in this game smile interesting, though, that Dumbledore takes the high road, anyway, even when the Chosen One's life is at stake [20:04] <immaHPfreak> i think she just wanted to make sure harry would live... ha [20:04] <caltheous> Um, yes. Cheating. [20:04] <fawkes28> that is true, chocolate [20:04] <Love4Fawkes> DD had faith in harry and the others running the tournament to protect him. [20:04] <immaHPfreak> yeah and its not that cheating is okay.. but thats how the triwizard tournament seems to go [20:04] <fawkes28> everyone cheats in the tournament [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> I think that hermione knew harry was in danger [20:04] <immaHPfreak> yeah [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> she acted upon that conviction--the larger question [20:04] <cbm> Hagrid showing Harry the dragons was cheating, but I do not think that helping harry with spells was cheating [20:04] <cloudpic> Not that "everyone cheating" justifies cheating... but I didn't see Hermione's help as cheating [20:04] <Aislinn> at one point in the books, it says that the champions are not allowed to ask teachers for help [20:05] <Aislinn> I'm not sure asking friends is cheating [20:05] <caltheous> Since it was a cheat to get Harry into the tournament is eems all rules were off... [20:05] *** MokeyMagoo has joined #lounge [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> hey, mokey [20:05] <fawkes28> hey mokey [20:05] <nympheart> hi mokey [20:05] <Love4Fawkes> i thought they weren't suppose to get help anywhere [20:05] <Aislinn> hi mokey [20:05] <cbm> I agree Aislinn [20:05] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> adios folks! gotta grab some dinner smile [20:05] <MokeyMagoo> hey fawkes Aislinn, prongs nympheheart! [20:05] <immaHPfreak> yeah i dont hink everyone cheating justifies it either... its still cheating... but i think its kind of part of the game... and sometimes life.. ha. [20:05] <immaHPfreak> bye [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> harry didn't have to ask her---she volunteered! [20:05] <nympheart> bye chocolate [20:05] <immaHPfreak> also i think hagrid definitely cheated.. but its hagrid! you cant be mad [20:06] <cloudpic> Dobby's handing Harry the gillyweed, though, was more obviously a cheat. Hermione's help is like help with studying [20:06] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [20:06] <ProngsPatronus> bye, chocolate [20:06] <MokeyMagoo> bye chocolate [20:06] <cloudpic> Yeah.. immaHPfreak... I think Hagrid didn't think of it as cheating This post has been edited by fawkes28: Jun 13 2007, 08:10 PM |
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