Wize Wizard Chat - July 26 Transcript, All Things Horcrux |
 Jul 26 2006, 08:20 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Chief Cat Herder  Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!    |
[18:58] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge
[18:58] *** Snuffles changed the topic to: Horcruxes: Making, finding, and destroying them (Aislinn) [19:00] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [19:00] <harryfreak359> Hey [19:00] <Aislinn> hi! [19:01] <harryfreak359> hi aislinn [19:01] *** Skiplives has joined #lounge [19:01] <harryfreak359> wow nobody is here yet [19:01] <Skiplives> Nope it's just 7:00 [19:01] *** magicmeg8 has joined #lounge [19:01] <harryfreak359> I'm glad we are talking about horcruxes...it is such a fascinating subject [19:02] <magicmeg8> hey, everyone! [19:02] <harryfreak359> hey meg! [19:02] <Skiplives> Hello [19:02] *** Psyche has joined #lounge [19:02] *** Winky05 has joined #lounge [19:02] <Psyche> Hi Skip! [19:03] <Skiplives> Horcruxes are frustrating interesting because we know what they are but very little else. [19:03] <harryfreak359> yeah [19:03] <Skiplives> Hi Psyche [19:03] *** Val_Halla has joined #lounge [19:03] <Aislinn> so room for lots of speculation tonight smile [19:03] <harryfreak359> yep [19:03] <Skiplives> Very much so [19:03] <Aislinn> we'll get underway with the topic after we give folks a chance to get in herer [19:03] <harryfreak359> can't wait [19:03] <Aislinn> here [19:04] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [19:04] <Aislinn> that's better [19:04] <harryfreak359> :) [19:04] <Skiplives> We're getting there [19:04] <Aislinn> how is everyone tonight? [19:04] <Expelliarmas> buenos aires my peeps. Where's Narya? [19:04] <Psyche> *squee* [19:04] <Skiplives> I'm only here for a few - I'm headed home [19:04] <harryfreak359> pretty good, suffuring from humidity [19:04] <Psyche> Wishin I was in Vegas [19:05] <Skiplives> Amen [19:05] <harryfreak359> don't we all [19:05] <Psyche> I've gone anti-Lumos [19:05] <Psyche> NOX [19:05] *** loopylupin has joined #lounge [19:05] *** LJ has joined #lounge [19:05] <harryfreak359> hey laurie! [19:05] <LJ> Hi [19:05] <Psyche> Hey L - havent seen you in aaaaaaaaaages [19:05] *** Wizardmom has joined #lounge [19:05] <LJ> nope, like so long [19:06] <Aislinn> all of us are NOXers in here! [19:06] <Psyche> *switches to purple* [19:06] <loopylupin> goash compleatly ignore me [19:06] <Psyche> *GROUP HUGGLES* [19:06] <harryfreak359> lol, yeah aislinn [19:06] <Expelliarmas> no, we're not ignoring you, we're just getting it together [19:07] <harryfreak359> no, of course we're not ignoring you [19:07] <loopylupin> *snog snog snog* [19:07] <harryfreak359> lol [19:07] <Psyche> No one ignores anyone round here [19:07] <Expelliarmas> unfortuntately, everytime i get it together, somebody comes along and movesit. [19:08] <Psyche> We're a huggly breed of leaksters [19:08] <harryfreak359> yeah we are [19:08] <Expelliarmas> not "leakers"? [19:08] <Skiplives> Hopefully not [19:08] <Wizardmom> Hey guys, how are you doing? [19:08] <Psyche> Am I leaking again? [19:08] <harryfreak359> hey wizardmom [19:08] <loopylupin> ooo how cute [19:08] *** Narya has joined #lounge [19:08] <harryfreak359> narya! [19:08] <harryfreak359> yay! [19:09] <Psyche> *waves at everyone inclusively* [19:09] <Aislinn> hi to everyone! [19:09] <LJ> Hi all [19:09] <Narya> hi [19:09] <Wizardmom> hi [19:09] <Expelliarmas> ohhh, Narya, glad to see you back [19:09] <loopylupin> hi 2 u [19:09] <Narya> good to be back biggrin [19:09] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge [19:09] <Expelliarmas> you're not off the hook. [19:09] <harryfreak359> can't wait for your theory! [19:09] <Wizardmom> thought I'd take a break from memorizing zip codes and pop in, I love this topic [19:09] <Psyche> Hey G-slaw [19:10] <Narya> that depends on the Mods biggrin [19:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol - hi Psyche [19:10] *** aranelparmadil has joined #lounge [19:10] <Psyche> Are you nox-ing? [19:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I certainly am! [19:10] <Expelliarmas> hello aranel, welcome aboard [19:10] <Psyche> *squee* [19:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> cute [19:11] <aranelparmadil> Hey Expelliarmas! Found my way here. [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> know what? I didn't have time to even check the topic lol [19:11] <Skiplives> Horcrii [19:11] <Psyche> (pssst - Its over there on the right) [19:11] <Expelliarmas> say hello to aranel whom i nudged into joining us tonight. [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> cree? crii sp?? [19:11] <Psyche> cruxes [19:11] <harryfreak359> horcruxes [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol [19:11] <Psyche> *ignores Noe* [19:12] <Expelliarmas> there are no horcrie, so sayeth Jo [19:12] <Psyche> horcruxes [19:12] <Aislinn> it is definitely horcruxes in here! [19:12] <Aislinn> we follow canon smile [19:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> horcrow [19:12] *** stewiegryf has joined #lounge [19:12] <loopylupin> r we even going to talk about the topic? [19:12] <Skiplives> Craw Craw [19:12] <Psyche> hor-huggles [19:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes skip! [19:12] <harryfreak359> yeah in a few minutes [19:12] <Psyche> We have to fill up a little first Loopy [19:13] *** loopylupin has quit [Bye] [19:13] *** stewiegryf left #lounge [] [19:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> has anyone else ever noticed the quality of discussion sort of deteriorates when I come in? [19:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> tongue [19:13] <magicmeg8> Haha. [19:13] <Aislinn> lol [19:13] <Expelliarmas> hmmm [19:13] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:13] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:13] <Aislinn> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like “Meg got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. [19:14] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:14] <Aislinn> The transcript of this chat will be available shortly after we finish. It will be posted in our new Corner Booth Forum: http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html . [19:14] <Aislinn> From the beginning of the Harry Potter books, we learned that Lord Voldemort was able to exist the rebounding of a killing curse - something that noone else we know of has been able to do. Finally, in HBP, we learn of the reason why - Horcruxes. An object magically prepared to contain a ripped piece of soul, the horcrux is a dark and evil object. [19:15] *** Mokey has joined #lounge [19:15] <Aislinn> We have seen 2 of them destroyed, but are given reason to believe that 4 more exist. Tonight, let's talk about the horcruxes - their history, how they are made, what they might be, and where Harry will find them, and how they can be destroyed once found. [19:15] <magicmeg8> Where does the knowledge of Horcrux-making come from? Who could have tried so hard to become immortal that he would split his soul through the energy produced by a murder? [19:16] <magicmeg8> We know pretty much nothing about the history of Horcruxes, other than the fact that they are considered very Dark and advanced magic, though some have think prior to Voldemort, Grindelwald may have made a Horcrux. [19:16] *** Whisperwing has joined #lounge [19:16] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:16] <magicmeg8> So, let's start with the history: We know magic started in Ancient Egypt and flourished later in history; when do you think the first Horcrux was made? [19:16] <magicmeg8> You guys can talk now smile [19:16] <Expelliarmas> as far back as man has sought immortality. [19:17] <Whisperwing> Ah, just at the start, fantastic. I'm going to guess Egyptians made them, what with the artifacts that go into the pyramids. [19:17] <Psyche> I'm gonna go with randomness and say Dark Ages [19:17] <Skiplives> Older I think [19:17] <harryfreak359> i'd go with the ancient egyptians [19:17] <Val_Halla> Well before Grindelwald at the very least [19:17] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Good W/W - they sought immortality of sorts [19:17] <Narya> I'm going to guess older as well [19:17] <Whisperwing> You know some of those funerary items had to be horcruxes. [19:17] <Skiplives> The gohlem is an old legend and is kind of related [19:17] *** HeleneB has joined #lounge [19:17] <Aislinn> it wouldn't surprise me if they were discovered in ancient times in Egypt - they were quite fascinated with death and the afterlife [19:18] <ProngsPatronus> I would say with neanderthals [19:18] <aranelparmadil> Death is one of humanity's oldest fears - I'd say immortality would therefore be one of our oldest fantasies [19:18] <Mokey> neanderthals, that's interesting [19:18] <magicmeg8> Yes, I agree Aislinn -- it makes perfect sense [19:18] <Whisperwing> They did believe that there was a land of the dead, so that the things buried with them were meant for their use once they rose up into the Sun. [19:18] <harryfreak359> I agree aislinn [19:18] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [19:18] <ProngsPatronus> well, sympathetic magic is a specific for hunting/gathering type magics [19:18] <Mokey> well we know that neaderthals put flowers on graves, so I think they were aware of life after death [19:18] <HeleneB> There've been enough references to Egypt it must play a part. [19:19] <ProngsPatronus> I see the Horcruxes as akin to that kind of magic [19:19] <Whisperwing> Wouldn't it be appropriate to imbue something you knew was going to be buried with you with a piece of your soul? Maybe with the aim of using agrave robber asa vessel for your return? [19:19] <Mokey> like a crude fertility magic? PP? [19:19] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Can someone clarify/jog my memory on the term 'horcrux?' Is it a JK term, or is it a term that has been used by others? [19:19] <Aislinn> would they have had the knowledge needed to create them back in that type of primitive culture, though? [19:19] <Val_Halla> Horcruxes can't really have been that common can they? Not many people seem to have heard of them [19:19] <Narya> How far back are we talking, PP? Which age? [19:19] <Whisperwing> Original to Jo [19:19] <Wizardmom> yes but with the Egyptians, that's just it, they were fascinated with Death. Why would they try to thwart death? [19:19] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> thanks smile [19:19] <ProngsPatronus> lol--primitive is a relative term [19:19] <Aislinn> that's a good question ginbot [19:19] <Whisperwing> pretty sure [19:20] <magicmeg8> The term "Horcrux" is used to refer to any object in which a person has concealed a part of his or her soul. [19:20] <harryfreak359> good point wizardmom [19:20] <magicmeg8> according to the lex [19:20] <Psyche> good point Mom, If they were so keen on an afterlife - why the fear of death [19:20] <harryfreak359> thx meg [19:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> so can we assume that the actual ritual/concept pre-dated HP books? [19:20] <Whisperwing> Yes but, did the word exist before HP? [19:20] <ProngsPatronus> death meant death in the afterlife, as well [19:20] <ProngsPatronus> death means annihilation [19:20] <Expelliarmas> why the fear of death? that's a question which is not limited to the ages. [19:20] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [19:20] <HeleneB> but did all the Egyptians have that feeling about death? [19:20] <magicmeg8> Ah, hmm. Well, the Lexicon doesn't mention any sort of real history of anything like a Horcrux [19:20] <HeleneB> All it takes is one [19:21] *** magicmeg8 has quit [Bye] [19:21] <Mokey> Well what do we know from the egyptian book of the dead? [19:21] <Aislinn> or just the nobility? [19:21] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Egyptians believed in an afterlife [19:21] *** magicmeg8 has joined #lounge [19:21] <Mokey> has anone read it? I have it but haven't read it [19:21] <Skiplives> What about the Jews in Egypt? [19:21] <Whisperwing> Because no one has come back to say, really, definitively, what happens when you die [19:21] <Narya> Annihilation of mind, body, soul - now that's an interesting thought [19:21] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and they believed in preparing for the afterlife - which I believe they considered to be immortality [19:21] <Skiplives> very different belief system [19:21] <ProngsPatronus> the afterlife is supposed to be a kind of "super" form of their present life [19:21] <Narya> A kind of rarified existence, then? [19:22] *** cloudpic has joined #lounge [19:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> they also believed that they could take things from this world, hence the ornaments and life possessions [19:22] <Mokey> to me it would seem that horcruxes would arise from a culture afraid of death [19:22] <Mokey> like in the middle ages [19:22] <Skiplives> Or a death cult [19:22] <Psyche> Thats where my Dark Ages theory came from [19:22] <cloudpic> Is there any culture which isn't afraid of death?? [19:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> good point Mokey [19:22] <ProngsPatronus> from the pictures we have on the tombs, they hunt, they have agriculture--nothing is "given" to them, as in a kind of Heaven [19:22] *** MonaOgg has joined #lounge [19:22] <Mokey> oh cool Psyche,that makes sense [19:22] <Wizardmom> see when I think of immortality, I think of someone who is so afraid of death and what might be beyond, that they will do anything to not go there [19:23] <Whisperwing> Well the Wikipedia lists hurcrux exclusively as a Harry Potter device [19:23] <Psyche> That there was some sort of Magic Rule/ War then that is why portions of history are wiped out for the Muggles [19:23] <Mokey> I agree Wizardmom, and in the middle ages views of the afterlife were bleak [19:23] <harryfreak359> so if they weren't afraid of death then why would they make horcruxes, meaning that it must have started later, [19:23] <Psyche> and muggle development was stifled [19:23] <Val_Halla> Does it really have to have been a societal thing? Maybe it was just one guy, like Nicholas Flamel, who invented them [19:23] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> W/W - what about the concept of horcruxes - do you think anything pre-dates HP under a different title? [19:23] <Whisperwing> I think those curse of the mummy tles could have stemmed from a sort of horcrux thing [19:24] <harryfreak359> perhaps Val Halla [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I mean the actual 'art' of making one [19:24] <Whisperwing> tales that is [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or was this a total JK concept [19:24] <Skiplives> I doubt it was ever in widespread use [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> has she spoken to what inspired her in this regard? [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> well, the stories of a container holding the soul of a sorcerer are far older than HP [19:24] <Psyche> Its something I've heard of before, but in a very different structure [19:24] *** HeleneB has quit [Bye] [19:24] <magicmeg8> From wiki: The idea of concealing one's soul in an external object to gain immortality has appeared in the mythology of many cultures and dates back thousands of years. [19:24] <cloudpic> Wikipedia mentions that the notion of placing your soul in a vessel is a part of some culture's myths, but not when retaining some of the soul within your own body [19:24] <aranelparmadil> I've always thought that Sauron (LOTR) used the ring of power as a horcrux - what does anyone else think? [19:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> thanks Meg! [19:24] <magicmeg8> The tales of Koschei the Deathless from Russian mythology are examples of such items existing in myth — although Koschei did not utilise multiple containers, nor retain a part of the soul in his body. [19:25] <harryfreak359> thx meg [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> I think there is mention of it in the Gilgamesh cycle [19:25] <magicmeg8> Further examples exist in Indian folk-tales, where evil sorcerers evade death by sealing their spirit inside parrots, becoming invulnerable until someone destroys the parrot [19:25] <cloudpic> That is one thing which is very different: [19:25] <Psyche> I think its teh same sort of idea Aranel [19:25] <Whisperwing> There's swords cursed with the souls of others, I can recall. Things that when they come into your possession, open you to the possession by the spirit within -- that's really old 'mojo'. [19:25] <cloudpic> Saving his soul within his own body and in these [19:25] <Mokey> that sounds like a bush soul meg [19:25] <cloudpic> safety vesssels. [19:25] <magicmeg8> (link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horcrux#Mytho...cal_inspiration [19:25] <Val_Halla> Sort of Aranel. Sauron was trying to make the Ring more powerful. He was already immortal. [19:25] <Whisperwing> Oooh, how about Davy Jones' chest? [19:25] <Wizardmom> Speaking of Nicolas Flamel, what would have been his purpose to be immortal? To continue his work? Was he afraid of death? This may parallel Voldy in a way [19:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> W/W - slightly off topic - Gryffindor's sword [19:25] <Whisperwing> There's a horcruxey thing [19:26] <Psyche> but the idea of a soul or part of a soul entwined with an object is not only a HP idea [19:26] <Narya> To continue his work, I think [19:26] <ProngsPatronus> well, how about the relics of saints? [19:26] <Aislinn> right, psyche [19:26] <cloudpic> Wasn't Flamel's work to prove he could do it? [19:26] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [19:26] <Mokey> oh that's interesting PP [19:26] <Whisperwing> Although cutting out your heart's a bit more literal than siphoning off a piece of your soul [19:26] <Aislinn> it has been seen in other cultures and tales [19:26] <ProngsPatronus> having powers after death--it is along the same idea [19:26] <Narya> Keeping one's mortal powers, then? [19:26] <Psyche> Its just a different literal interpretation of the same concept WW [19:27] <Skiplives> Not Saint's relics - the damage of the Horcrux to the soal is kind of anti-saintly isn't it? [19:27] <ProngsPatronus> well, those powers are seen as being extra-mortal [19:27] <MonaOgg> Terry Pratchett had a similar concept in "Sourcery" if anyone's read that [19:27] <Whisperwing> Yes, saintly relics, The miracles of the saints continuing through their .. you do realize that actual relics actually contain pieces of the saints' bodies? Like bits of bone? [19:27] <Expelliarmas> agreed a saint relic is likely not the equivalent of a horcrux [19:27] <ProngsPatronus> yes [19:27] <cloudpic> One difference is the connection in HP-lore specifically with the Dark Arts. This hoarcrux use is not considered Moral. [19:27] <Skiplives> yes [19:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes W/W - you're right [19:27] <magicmeg8> Well, now that we've sufficiently wracked our brains: Why would JKR reveal so little of the Horcrux history? Would a little more information have risked the plot so much? [19:28] <ProngsPatronus> that is my point--it is a similar concept, used in a different way [19:28] <Psyche> yeah, I went to a penguin school WW [19:28] <Mokey> I don't think it's the equivalent, but there is some similarity there [19:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> quite possible Meg [19:28] <futureweasley> I totally think it would have [19:28] <Wizardmom> possibly [19:28] <Psyche> Maybe not [19:28] <harryfreak359> she wanted us to fret about... [19:28] <cloudpic> The relics of saints do not create the miracles, in theology it is the work of God who creates the miracle through the saint [19:28] <Narya> If she'd disclosed it in CoS, then the series would be completely different [19:28] <Psyche> but it would make a return of LV more obvious [19:28] <Skiplives> Kind of a polarized image of a relic [19:28] <Expelliarmas> who knows, I think she wanted us to wreck our brains on it though [19:28] <futureweasley> It has a not to do with what happened at Godric's Hollow (I think) [19:28] <Mokey> I think Jo did that perhaps so that we would realize how rare they are, and how only dark wizards would know about them [19:28] <Whisperwing> Here's a webpage Ginny could h ave used -- Spirit Possession and How To Avoid It! [19:28] <Psyche> (to the casual reader) [19:28] <Val_Halla> Maybe if we knew too many details it would be too easy to guess how LV will be defeated [19:28] <harryfreak359> lol WW [19:28] <Aislinn> I think it would have been interesting to know more of the history behind them, but since we didn't learn what they were until this last book, they are still relatively new to the story [19:29] <Aislinn> even though we saw one back in CoS [19:29] <MonaOgg> not even Dumbledore or Slughorn knew an awful lot about them though [19:29] <Skiplives> I am a little surprised DD didn't go into mre detail here [19:29] <futureweasley> right, Aislinn [19:29] <Wizardmom> Jo has been trying to get us to think along that line for a while.. she's always said we shouldn't wonder why voldy didn't die, but why he lived [19:29] <Narya> I think DD did [19:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - what we do know is the creation of them involves the worst sort of evil [19:29] <harryfreak359> DD might have known more than he let on [19:29] <ProngsPatronus> I know that in Vudun, there is value in using parts of a person to affect a person's behavior [19:29] <Expelliarmas> i think dd and slughorn knew plenty about them but chose not to say a lot. [19:29] <Mokey> I think she wanted to add an element of secrecy and mystery, like something arcane [19:29] <cloudpic> Do we know how long Dumbledore has been working/searching for hoarcruxes?? [19:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and the result is the tearing of the soul [19:30] <Narya> Ever since Tom left Hogwarts, or even before [19:30] <MonaOgg> he probably started after Chamber of Secrets, actually [19:30] <Whisperwing> Ooh I found a site connected to Shadowrun that references items that cause spiritual possession... [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - I think both Slughorn and DD likely knew a great deal about them [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> in theory [19:30] <Val_Halla> I got the impression it wasn't until after the diary incident [19:30] <Expelliarmas> i think since before COS he suspected and COS confirmed horcrux usage [19:30] <Wizardmom> I wonder, is Horcrux making simply taught through word? Maybe there's a book at Flourish and Blotts [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not LV's specifically [19:30] <MonaOgg> I don't think it would have occurred to him before [19:30] <Skiplives> I think Dd was more interested in Harry learning about Tom and didn't want him waylaid by the Horcrux itself. [19:30] <Aislinn> agreed mona [19:30] <Mokey> so did I Expelliarmus [19:30] <harryfreak359> i agree skip [19:30] <futureweasley> agreed Skip [19:30] <Psyche> I think he suspected but it wasnt confirmed until CoS [19:30] <magicmeg8> I definitely think Slughorn knows more than he let on -- or would be able to help with the history. I still wish we knew a BIT more about them [19:31] <Expelliarmas> maybe Borgin and Burkes not Flourish [19:31] <Narya> Slughorn was shaken when Tom mentioned them [19:31] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Grindlewald had a Horcrux [19:31] <Narya> me too, PP [19:31] <harryfreak359> I think Dumbledore knows more too [19:31] <Mokey> that makes sense skip, but I think that would be more Hremione territory than Harrys [19:31] <futureweasley> interesting PP [19:31] <Aislinn> me too pp [19:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> very much Narya [19:31] <Skiplives> Agreed PP [19:31] <Aislinn> I think he is where LV learned how to make them [19:31] <Mokey> I agree Psyche [19:31] <Narya> I think Tom and Grindelwald met [19:31] <harryfreak359> i don't [19:31] <Skiplives> I don't [19:31] <cloudpic> Does anyone think that Krum (from a school teaching the dark arts) will be a help?? [19:31] <LJ> I agree too PP, DD seems to have had experience with them, so it'd make sense [19:31] <ProngsPatronus> if Dumbledore suspected a meeting between the two--Riddle and Grindlewald, then that would have set him on the trail in the first place [19:31] <futureweasley> does anyone think it was destroying the ring that actually hurt DD's hand so badly? [19:31] <Narya> might, might not [19:32] <Mokey> I think it's interesting that Grindelwald fell the year tom Killed his parents [19:32] <cloudpic> Yes [19:32] <Skiplives> I think Tom got his knowledge from the Chamber of Secrets [19:32] <MonaOgg> I think so [19:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I don't think so cloudpic [19:32] <Val_Halla> No, I think it was curses protecting the Ring [19:32] <Narya> I do too [19:32] <cloudpic> Didn't realize that Mokey! [19:32] <Psyche> I didnt make that connection Mokes [19:32] *** underthecupboard87 has joined #lounge [19:32] <Psyche> Go Mokes [19:32] <Skiplives> After all it is not the Chamber of really big snakes [19:32] <harryfreak359> actually futureweasley, i have thought about that alot [19:32] <Narya> There's definitely more to it [19:32] <Mokey> lol psyche [19:32] <Expelliarmas> krum was taught about the dark arts more directly, maybe he'll have more of a clue as to how to defeat it. [19:32] <ProngsPatronus> that is also a good possibility, skip [19:32] <MonaOgg> I think Tom would have followed Grindlewald if he hadn't been defeated [19:32] *** Winky05 has quit [Bye] [19:32] *** stinkywinky has joined #lounge [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> I just find the confluence of the careers of those two curious [19:33] <harryfreak359> I don't think so mona [19:33] <Mokey> that's a good point Expelliarmus [19:33] <Whisperwing> Oh yes, Michael Moorcock's books about Elric, there was a sword that drew souls into it, kind of a Dementor/Horcrux thing, wouldn't you say? [19:33] <Psyche> Well Chamber of REally Big Snakes, kinda would have taken the mystery out of it [19:33] <futureweasley> I just think DD's too smart for that [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> Elric--great series [19:33] <Expelliarmas> Tom would have not "followed" Grindewald, he would have tried to take over top spot as evil wizard [19:33] <cloudpic> haha... [19:33] <harryfreak359> i kind of have that feeling too future [19:33] <cloudpic> Snakes in a Chamber [19:33] <Psyche> Snakey on a plane [19:33] <MonaOgg> he would have tried to learn first and kill later, I think [19:33] <futureweasley> not possible, in my opinion [19:33] <Skiplives> True Psyche, but come on who would have thought that SS would have a snake as a monster [19:34] <magicmeg8> From what we learned in HBP, a Horcrux is created by first committing a murder and, according to Slughorn, an incantation is said. Do you think there's any other part in this process? What could be included in it? [19:34] <futureweasley> he wouldn't have been so careless [19:34] <harryfreak359> agree Expel [19:34] <ProngsPatronus> well, if snakes were huis passion, and his totem, why not? [19:34] <Val_Halla> I think that's the whole process [19:34] <Aislinn> did he specifically say there was an incantation? [19:34] <Psyche> I'm blood suspicious [19:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the sealing of the soul, likely [19:34] <cloudpic> Slughorn was a potions teacher, maybe there's a potion [19:34] *** Winky05 has joined #lounge [19:34] <Val_Halla> Yes, Aislinn [19:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> during the incantation [19:35] <Whisperwing> Well it has to be cold-blooded murder, an intentiona murder, of that much I'm sure. Accidentally killing someone woun't provide you with the opportunity to accidentally make a Horcrux, I'm sorry. [19:35] <stinkywinky> I have a question [19:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the soul would have to be sealed in the object [19:35] <magicmeg8> From the Lex: According to Slughorn, some spell appears to be involved for the implant process, but Slughorn neither knew nor wished to know the details [19:35] <harryfreak359> yeah, stinkywinky? [19:35] <aranelparmadil> Do you think the incantation has to be said at the time of the murder? If so, wouldn't you have to have the horcrux object with you? And if so, wouldn't LV have had one at Godric's Hollow? [19:35] <Mokey> murder, incantation, and then there must be some motion involving the object so the sould knows where to go [19:35] <stinkywinky> Could it be possible that Harry is connected to the horcruxes through sharing the same blood as LV? [19:35] <Psyche> ah - ask mokey that one [19:35] <Skiplives> not Mr. Blood [19:35] <stinkywinky> Like when he saw Nagini? [19:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Aranel [19:36] <futureweasley> lol skip [19:36] <harryfreak359> I don't think so [19:36] <stinkywinky> Assuming Nagini's a horcrux [19:36] <Whisperwing> I think the killing severs the part of the soul, then you have an elaborate ritual for imbuing the soul piece into the object, it's not at all simple. [19:36] <futureweasley> which she's not [19:36] *** towerdweller has joined #lounge [19:36] <futureweasley> lol [19:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I just have a sense that the fragment of soul would have to be preserved/sealed quickly [19:36] <Wizardmom> I agree WW [19:36] <Aislinn> I agree WW [19:36] <MonaOgg> I think there's a connection between his killing his father and then using his bones for his resurrection besides the "bone of the father" incantation, he probably was the sacrifice for the first horcrux or something [19:36] <harryfreak359> their souls aren't connected really, stinkywinky [19:36] <Skiplives> I have to go - I'll try to get back before the chat is over. flowers [19:36] <Psyche> I'm dubious about the whole severed soul and Fragments and fraction division [19:36] <Whisperwing> Good point, Mona [19:36] <magicmeg8> Haha, we'll delve into that a little late maybe, we should figure out the specifics of the general Horcruxes before we move on to LV [19:36] <harryfreak359> bye skip! [19:36] *** Skiplives left #lounge [] [19:36] <Mokey> see ya Skip [19:36] <aranelparmadil> The what objct would LV have had with him at Godric's Hollow, and what happened to it? [19:36] <Expelliarmas> agree with Aranel, wouldn't LV have to have the vessel handy to store the soul? Or can the incantation be delayed. Like with the diary? [19:37] <Val_Halla> LV didn't have to use Harry to regenerate - he just wanted to [19:37] <ProngsPatronus> bye, skip! [19:37] *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] [19:37] *** towerdweller has quit [Bye] [19:37] *** underthecupboard87 has quit [Bye] [19:37] <Narya> LV wanted to use Harry, but he didn't get his way [19:37] *** Tanaqui has joined #lounge [19:37] <Whisperwing> I'm pretty sure he already had all his Horcruxes made and hidden, which was why he felt confident it was safe for him to go after Harry Potter. [19:37] <Psyche> (mass exodus) [19:37] <magicmeg8> How much of the soul is actually put into a Horcrux? [19:37] <Narya> yes, WW [19:37] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think that Harry shared Voldemort's blood--I thought it was the other way around... [19:37] <harryfreak359> I don't agree WW [19:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Ah, good point W/W [19:38] <aranelparmadil> I don't think he wanted to use Harry as a horcrux - he went to GH to kill harry, surely? [19:38] <MonaOgg> quite a bit, I'd think [19:38] <Val_Halla> one seventh, in my opinion [19:38] <Narya> It is the other way around, I think [19:38] <Psyche> Not the fractions thing again! [19:38] <stinkywinky> Blood is the connection though [19:38] <magicmeg8> Haha, Psyche. [19:38] <Psyche> Is a soul a finite, physical object that can be divided? [19:38] <Mokey> lol Psyche I was thinking the same thing [19:38] <Whisperwing> There's no way he meant to make a Horcrux from Harry's death, he knew just enough of the prophecy that he would have wanted all his Horcruxes made before he took out the child. [19:38] *** towerdweller has joined #lounge [19:38] <Aislinn> good question meg! Is it half of what is there, or is just a bit ripped off each time? [19:38] <harryfreak359> I think that he had all but one horcrux when he went to kill harry [19:38] <cloudpic> Perhaps the soul is somehow a non-finite thing...so the divisions could be endless... [19:38] <harryfreak359> I think, Nagini came later [19:39] <Psyche> A soul is an essence of a person that can grow (or shrink) and change with time [19:39] <Mokey> I wonder what happens to the bits of soul that don't become horcruxes [19:39] <Whisperwing> I think the soul splinters off a specific bit, like cutting off a finger rather than splitting the soul down the middle. [19:39] <magicmeg8> I mean, we can only guess "1/7" because of the amount that one wizard has supposedly made [19:39] <stinkywinky> I think it might be possible for Harry to envision where all the horcruxes are, similar to how he saw Nagini. [19:39] <cloudpic> The soul is immortal... so why not also infinite? thus each division is always possible [19:39] <Psyche> Its not a mathematical defined thing [19:39] <Narya> Shrivel up, Mokey [19:39] <Tanaqui> well, souls were represented by animals in the His Dark Materials trilogy...so perhaps they can be a finite thing, if you want it to be [19:39] <ProngsPatronus> well, I think it is apples and oranges, really [19:39] <Psyche> Unless you pescribe to the 21grams theory [19:39] *** gryffindelle has joined #lounge [19:39] <magicmeg8> No, I don't think it can be defined mathematically either [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think, cloud, DD mentions that the more the soul is divided the more er... fragile it becomes [19:39] <Narya> Once the soul is split, it can't be mended [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> unstable [19:39] <ProngsPatronus> the soul is connected to the infinite [19:39] * Whisperwing blinks [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but yes, likely infinite [19:39] <Mokey> oh that's interesting Hols [19:39] <Narya> The soul has something indefinable about it [19:39] <MonaOgg> I'd think that the 'amount' of 'soul' per horcrux would decrease per item used? Like butter spread over too much bread, if I may quote [19:39] <ProngsPatronus> however, it has to be finite, or you couldn't have bit one soul [19:40] <ProngsPatronus> and everyone would share in it [19:40] <Mokey> perhaps you lose a gram with every murder ;) and your out of luck after 21 [19:40] <Narya> LOL Mokey [19:40] <Psyche> ;p [19:40] <Aislinn> it sounds finite, from the way the splitting is described [19:40] <harryfreak359> lol [19:40] <gryffindelle> lol [19:40] <Whisperwing> Which is why I think there's onlya shard broken off, not a complete split. [19:40] <gryffindelle> I think that it was split [19:40] <Val_Halla> I think the caster of the Horcrux incantation chooses how much to encase [19:40] <Aislinn> it seems like LV wouldn't be losing his human appearance with the increasing splitting of his soul, if it wasn't finite [19:41] <cloudpic> Is it possible that each hoarcrux LV created is somehow "stronger" than the last...either because he's more evil or more able? [19:41] <gryffindelle> in half [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> well, there is nothing really that says a split is defined as 50-50 [19:41] <magicmeg8> Ooh,that's interesting, Val [19:41] <harryfreak359> splitting the soul is an interesting topic, and a very mysterious one [19:41] <Val_Halla> LV planned 6 Horcruxes, ergo 1/7 each [19:41] <Psyche> I think an echo of the essence of the person at the time of the horcrux creation is contained in the horcrux [19:41] <Psyche> Like a mirror image [19:41] <Expelliarmas> So far though, the horcruxes have not been large vessels. even the suspected horcruxes are not large, except for that creepy snake. [19:41] <gryffindelle> it would explain why the diary was so easy to destroy, while the ring was so difficult [19:41] <MonaOgg> how much of a connection is there between LV and his soul-fractions anyway? [19:41] <Psyche> Thats why its young Tom in the Diary [19:41] <Mokey> like the Maurader's map or a portrait PSyche? [19:41] <harryfreak359> the first time you make a horcrux does half your soul go into it? [19:41] <Psyche> similar idea mokes [19:41] <harryfreak359> Or only a small part? [19:41] <Whisperwing> The piece in the diary needed to feed off of Ginny's soul in order to become a complete being, so it wasn't very much of a soul at first. [19:42] <Val_Halla> I don't think the diary was easy to destroy. There aren't that many basilisk fangs laying around [19:42] <Mokey> so that brings up the question, are all horcruxes sentient, or just the one's attached to memories? [19:42] <cloudpic> It fed off her Soul?? [19:42] <Tanaqui> do you think the diary was easier because voldemort wasn't as adept at making horcruxes yet? [19:42] <Mokey> true Val hehe [19:42] <cloudpic> Thought it was draining her...energy or something... [19:42] <gryffindelle> it could have been that he still was unsure, and it didn't work as well as it was supposed to [19:42] <magicmeg8> Voldemort seems to use significant deaths to make Horcruxes, but is that necessary? [19:42] <aranelparmadil> It fed off her life force, didn't it? [19:42] <Whisperwing> Kind of like a little raisin that had to soak up the essence of another in order to plump back out. [19:42] <harryfreak359> I don't think so, meg [19:42] <Psyche> I think its LV all about the dramatic [19:42] <Expelliarmas> is it sentient only up to a point. Diary Tom had no idea about future LV's shattering. [19:42] <MonaOgg> LV is a sentimental old coot at heart [19:42] <Narya> The Diary was the easiest and crudest one to make [19:43] <harryfreak359> I think it was one of LV's control issues [19:43] <Psyche> He didnt need Harry at the end of GoF - he just wanted it to be him' [19:43] <Narya> As befits a talented teenager [19:43] <Val_Halla> only about himself, mona [19:43] <Aislinn> agreed mona - it seems to be his thing, rather than a horcrux need [19:43] <gryffindelle> no necessary [19:43] <ProngsPatronus> I think the diary had more than one purpose [19:43] <Mokey> I don't think it's necessary meg, I think he just has his De's kill the unimportant people, cause he's killed too many to lose that much soul [19:43] <gryffindelle> *not [19:43] <Psyche> Its about the show, the bigger picture [19:43] <cloudpic> Maybe the intentions of evil is stronger when the deaths are more significant... [19:43] <Wizardmom> Voldy made them significant because of his "trophy" obsession [19:43] <Tanaqui> so the diary is/was more than a horcrux? [19:43] <Narya> that's interesting, cloudpic [19:43] <cloudpic> Killing your father/ vs/ killing a random Muggle [19:43] <Psyche> His downfall is his pride and his dismissal of the smaller details [19:43] <harryfreak359> yeah wizardmom [19:43] <magicmeg8> I was thinking that as well, cloudpic [19:43] <MonaOgg> of cours only about him.... his favourite ship in fanfics would be LV/LV [19:43] <Expelliarmas> the killings had to befit the chosen vessel. [19:44] <Mokey> I agree Psyche, hubris, the age old tragic flaw [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> well, if one kills the people responsible for your own existence, it is a bigger deal than joe off the street [19:44] <Whisperwing> Actually I do think that if there isn't a strong intent, the split off of the soul piece won't last very long, so perhaps that means it does have to be of a certain significancefor it to work. [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> the diary had to be able of possession, to take a bodily form, and open the Chamber of Secrets [19:44] <Aislinn> interesting thought, WW [19:44] <Whisperwing> Since the ritual is so involved, the intent of the murder has to be strong enough to sustain the splintering of the soul. [19:45] <cloudpic> So would that act create a stronger hoarcrux...look at what destroying the ring did to DD [19:45] <Narya> So we could have really virulent Horcruxes, and others not so pwerful? [19:45] <Expelliarmas> by the time of the ring, Tom knew a lot more dark magic to protect the ring. [19:45] <Aislinn> was it the horcrux itself, though, or the protections put around the horcrux, in the case of the ring? [19:45] <Psyche> (a bigger echo) [19:45] <aranelparmadil> But intent for murder would necessarily be strong any way. Look at what Moody says about avada kedavra - you have to really mean it. [19:45] <Val_Halla> I don't think so Narya [19:45] *** Professor_Nigellus has joined #lounge [19:45] <gryffindelle> could the diry have needed ginny's soul because the soul in it was incomplete, which could have happened if that horcrux didn't work as well as they're supposed to? [19:45] <MonaOgg> the Marauders managed to imprint their personality on the map as well, though.... I think the fact the diary was able to act on its own was a combination of things, not the soul on its own [19:46] <Narya> Neither did I - that's why I asked [19:46] <Expelliarmas> look at the dark magic olympic events they had to get through in the cave. [19:46] <Psyche> *likes her theory and is sticking to it* [19:46] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is the protections, rather than releasing the piece of soul, that was the problem with the ring [19:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Cloudpic - do you think that because of the great hatred LV had for DD the ring did more damage? [19:46] <MonaOgg> right, PP [19:46] <harryfreak359> i have a question [19:46] <Val_Halla> I agree Prongs [19:46] <Psyche> questions are good [19:47] <MonaOgg> just like the potion did the damage in the cave, not the fake locket [19:47] <Expelliarmas> the ring would have damaged anyone who tried to destroy it. [19:47] <cloudpic> What an interesting idea, Ginnybot... [19:47] <Tanaqui> i like the idea of the ring having more protections, not necessarily being a stronger item itself [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I wonder [19:47] <Whisperwing> AK isn't the only way to kill -- that Sectumsempra would have had Draco dead without Snape countering it. [19:47] <harryfreak359> when you kill someone to make a horcrux do you do it differently than you would a normal murder? [19:47] <Narya> I think the protections are key [19:47] <Narya> DD did say that he taught LV and knew his style [19:47] <Psyche> good question [19:47] <gryffindelle> i agree narya [19:47] <harryfreak359> Would you use Avada Kedavra [19:47] <Psyche> um I think so [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Maybe the ring wasn't stronger as such, it was more the destroyer [19:47] <Mokey> oh that's interestng harryfreak [19:47] <cloudpic> I just thought the ring itself was a more powerful hoarcrux and DD had underestimated the danger...or knew the danger and went ahead anyway [19:47] <harryfreak359> or is there other spell completely? [19:47] <Psyche> I think you need time after the murder to create the horcrux [19:48] <Mokey> perhaps you have to kill them with a spell [19:48] <Narya> I think he knew and went ahead, sealing his fate [19:48] <Tanaqui> i think i like that idea because we don't know what happened to the person that got there before dd [19:48] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps, the ring was a more delicate object in its original form--so the protections were made stronger as a result [19:48] <Psyche> It must be planned and cold-blooded [19:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I would think that the soul would retain the evil and hatred LV had toward DD [19:48] <Aislinn> how could the ring have been stronger as a horcrux, cloudpic? [19:48] <gryffindelle> and i also think that the fact that harry was unaware of what he was dealing with in CoS made it easier/less harmful [19:48] <stinkywinky> I think somewhere it says that anytime you kill you split your soul, it's the encantation that captures the soul to create the horcrux [19:48] <Mokey> I agree Psyche because I think that's what makes it murder [19:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> *horcrux [19:48] <Psyche> perhaps part of the incantation is contained in teh will behind the AK [19:48] <Whisperwing> Riddle definitely AKed his Muggle family.... [19:48] <harryfreak359> but why do you have to kill someone to split your soul? [19:48] <cloudpic> That would make the hoarcruxes very dangerous to Harry, Ginnybot [19:49] <MonaOgg> people say when you kill someone, a piece of your soul gets lost... I thought of the horcrux as to trap that piece intentionally? [19:49] <Psyche> I'm guessing it has to be an AK for a horcrux and not say, anvil dropping [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hmmm not necessarily [19:49] <aranelparmadil> Because it is one of the most evil deeds you can commit, harryfreak. [19:49] <Aislinn> that's a good way of looking at it, mona [19:49] <Narya> I think it's an AK for a Horcrux as well [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think LV's 'tude toward Harry is more one of curiosity [19:49] <MonaOgg> curiosity? [19:49] <Whisperwing> Like I said, Sectumsempra is as good a killing spell with enough intent behind it as Avada [19:49] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps that is one of the reasons that it is called an Unforgivable Curse [19:49] <MonaOgg> pull-the-legs-off-that-bug curiosity? [19:49] <Narya> As to how he survived the AK, GFAB? [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - as to why he was managed to be destroyed by him - fascination [19:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not necessarily hatred [19:50] <LJ> yeah GFAB, I agree - at least in the beginning, he was curious about the boy who survived and defeated him [19:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes, he wants to kill him [19:50] <Psyche> more get-an-immunity-to-poison curiosity [19:50] <harryfreak359> why can't you make one from torturing though? [19:50] <Narya> and the hatred developed over the years [19:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but I don't think he holds the same hatred toward Harry as he does DD [19:50] <harryfreak359> isn't that just as much, if not even more, evil? [19:50] <gryffindelle> good question [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> well, it was a failure--and Voldemort doesn't handle failure very well [19:50] <magicmeg8> Dumbledore explained to Harry that he thought the horcruxes were objects of significance to LV, particularly objects from the 4 founders. Do people think he was correct in this? [19:50] <Aislinn> apparently not in potterverse, harryfreak [19:50] <harryfreak359> hmm.... [19:50] <gryffindelle> yes [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> it destroys the view he has of himself [19:51] <Narya> Yes, I think so [19:51] <Psyche> I'm not completely sold on the 4 founders thing [19:51] <harryfreak359> I'm not either [19:51] <Tanaqui> what else would he use? [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Meg - I think DD was absolutely correct [19:51] <Val_Halla> I think at least one of Dumbledores guesses was wrong - probably nagini [19:51] <MonaOgg> not necessarily founders, but definitely things LV sees as significant, yes [19:51] <gryffindelle> me too [19:51] <Mokey> I think he was correct, LV is like a sociopath, and they collect trophies don't they? [19:51] <Narya> LV wants the school - the Founders represent the school in a way [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the only 'love' LV has shown was his love for the school and its history [19:51] <harryfreak359> no nagini i think is horcrux for sure [19:51] <magicmeg8> I'm inclined to think they wre from the founders. [19:51] <Whisperwing> Well he was awfully excited about Hepzibah Smith's golden cup [19:51] <MonaOgg> I thought that was odd, too [19:51] <gryffindelle> -val and GFAB [19:51] <Expelliarmas> Yes, LV is into trophies. Even when he was a kid he kept his trophies. [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> maybe love is too strong a word - sentiment [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> well, I think DD is correct [19:51] <Psyche> I dont think he got all four [19:51] <harryfreak359> what if he didn't find them all [19:51] <magicmeg8> I agree, Psyche [19:52] <Narya> DD knew Tom very well - I think his assessment is right [19:52] <Psyche> and had to substitute something else [19:52] <MonaOgg> probably a yoyo he stole from another orphan [19:52] <Aislinn> I think he was correct about 4 of the horcruxes at least [19:52] <Whisperwing> Not really sentiment either, more like mania. [19:52] <Mokey> I don't know if he's go after the four founder's objects unless he was sure he couldd get a complete set [19:52] <harryfreak359> lol mona [19:52] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> perhaps he didn't get one from Gryffindor [19:52] <Narya> that's the missing link, I think [19:52] <Mokey> I don't see him being like "well 3 founders is good enough" [19:52] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Voldemort puts a great deal of stock in the fact that he is the heir of Slytherin [19:52] <LJ> I think his later Horcruxes were more of the "trophy" kind, but what's with the Diary? Was that because of the way he could use it, or was it special in some way? [19:52] <Aislinn> would he think he couldn't mokey? He thinks he's the greatest wizard of all time [19:52] <Expelliarmas> does this mean Zacharias Smith might get blown up? Here's hoping. [19:52] <harryfreak359> well he couldn't have gotten Gryffindor's [19:52] <Psyche> I think it was the first Horcrux [19:52] <Mokey> that's true Aislinn [19:52] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> But of interest - someone - I think W/W - above mentioned sealing souls in swords [19:53] <magicmeg8> Yeah, that was definitely a wild card, well, sort of, Laurie (LJ) [19:53] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not that I think he did, but that's very interesting [19:53] <Mokey> yeah I think he was still experimenting with the diary, fumbling in the dark like [19:53] <gryffindelle> what if missing one from gryff. helps harry, since that is his house [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> and he takes Slytherin's expulsion from Hogwarts personally--so he is revenging himself on the Founders by using their relics as Horcruxes [19:53] <Narya> Echoing the "only a true Gryffindor can pull that out of the Hat" comment? [19:53] <MonaOgg> that would be weird [19:53] <Aislinn> that's an interesting thought, PP [19:53] <Psyche> I can see it more like they think they've got all the horcruxes but havent really [19:53] <Expelliarmas> The diary was his way of announcing his grand connection to Salazar. [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> yes [19:53] <harryfreak359> yeah, [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> he claimed his heritage [19:53] <MonaOgg> the diary was unique in that it could act on its own, I don't think other horcruxes are that sentient [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> enemies of the Heir, beware [19:54] <harryfreak359> a heritage he is very proud of [19:54] <Psyche> The diary was quite egotistic [19:54] <magicmeg8> Ah, true, Expel [19:54] <Narya> Showing off, but he couldn't get the Gryffindor relic to compete the set [19:54] <ProngsPatronus> and that includes the other three Founders [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sorry - Expel - do you mean he meant to have the diary/horcrux used in the way it was? [19:54] <Expelliarmas> he wasn't a filthy muggle, in his veins ran Salazar's noble blood [19:54] <harryfreak359> but we don't know that Narya...for sure at least [19:54] <Aislinn> We know that Horcrux from Slytherin is the locket, and that the one from Hufflepuff is the cup. Have we been given any hints as to the identity of the Ravenclaw or Gryffindor objects? [19:54] <stinkywinky> The diary may have acted that way, sucking the life from Ginny, because LV hadn't gotten his body yet [19:54] <Narya> we don't, no, but it's a fair guess [19:54] <Psyche> he could communicate through it, it was experiemental - later he realised he needed to protect his horcruxes [19:54] <Tanaqui> okay, so if he did use the four founders things, how did he get the sword? it semed to me that dd had it...or at least, it was protected somewhere [19:54] <stinkywinky> It could have been an attempt to regenerate flesh [19:54] <Expelliarmas> Yes, he wanted the diary self to announce his heritage. [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Tiara - Aislinn [19:54] <MonaOgg> I think he started working on the diary long before he made it a horcrux [19:54] <gryffindelle> no, but i think that its the sword [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> for R/C [19:55] <harryfreak359> i'm like hermione, I need it shoved under my nose to believe it... [19:55] *** underthecupboard87 has joined #lounge [19:55] <ProngsPatronus> I think it may be a wand for Ravenclaw, though [19:55] <Expelliarmas> do we know anything about rowena ravenclaw? [19:55] <gryffindelle> not really [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Tiara? [19:55] <Psyche> she liked books [19:55] <MonaOgg> I don't think it'd be a wand [19:55] <stinkywinky> The bit of soul in the diary would know that LV was without a body and made that it's goal [19:55] <Narya> Very little - but the wand is very interesting [19:55] <Val_Halla> The wand from Oliivander's window [19:55] <MonaOgg> wands are for channelling, not for storing [19:55] <Psyche> and was friend with Helga [19:55] <gryffindelle> hmm. . . [19:55] <Wizardmom> we haven't seen a whole lot of Ravenclaw, maybe Luna is the clue [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> oh, good one, Val [19:55] <ProngsPatronus> yes, Val Halla [19:55] <Whisperwing> There's a series of books by Jennifer Robison, Sword Dancers, the Northern swordmakers apparently habitually seal the soul of a warrior into the sword as the final step in forging it. The female lead wound up sealing the sword of her teacher into her sword by slaying him at the end of a final swordfight. Later she was able to consult with his spirit in times of need. [19:56] <gryffindelle> that could be why ollivander was kidnapped? [19:56] <gryffindelle> if he actually was kidnapped) [19:56] <Psyche> I dont think Ollivander was kidnapped [19:56] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Thanks W/W! [19:56] <Aislinn> would he have had access to gryffindor's sword, though? [19:56] <Psyche> It was made to look like a kidnapping [19:56] <Expelliarmas> maybe luna is the clue. i think we'll be learning something about RR in book 7. [19:56] <ProngsPatronus> well, he has been around for a long time [19:56] <Mokey> I think he went willingly [19:56] <harryfreak359> wow WW [19:56] <Psyche> He's dark [19:56] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I like the way you think, Expel! [19:56] <harryfreak359> I kind of agree... [19:56] <Mokey> I agree Psyche!! (surprise surprise) [19:56] <Expelliarmas> maybe LV wanted to come back to hogwarts to get either the sorting hat or the sword? [19:57] *** cloudpic has quit [Bye] [19:57] <gryffindelle> that was my thought too, expel [19:57] <stinkywinky> JKR said the sorting hat wasn't a horcrux [19:57] <Mokey> Harry didn't even like him the first time they met (or wasn't sure he liked him) [19:57] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> That appears to be a high possibility [19:57] <gryffindelle> but i think it was the sword [19:57] <harryfreak359> well maybe he wanted ot make it one [19:57] <Tanaqui> would he be able to use the sorting hat? i mean, if jk hadn't already put the kabosh on it? [19:57] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the sword that is [19:57] <Val_Halla> Oh I think Ollivander is a ggo guy - he told DD about Harry's wand immediately [19:57] <Psyche> I think Harry has a good instinct, mokes [19:57] <Whisperwing> RIght, or he wanted to be there to reclaim the school in Slytherin's name. [19:57] <harryfreak359> but he didn't actually [19:57] <Narya> I don't think he could use the Hat [19:57] <Val_Halla> good guy, that is [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> I think that it was made to look like a kidnapping--but that Dumbledore hid Ollivander, not Voldemort [19:57] <Mokey> me too Psyche [19:57] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> perhaps the hat - maybe he'd see it as a divining tool/historical tool [19:57] <MonaOgg> could you imagine the hat actually being a horcrux? Voldemort's singing horcrux? yay! [19:57] <Narya> DD is likely to have helped Ollivander to "disappear" [19:57] <gryffindelle> i agree prongs [19:57] <Tanaqui> it almost seems it would be clashing magic to use the hat or anything else with some personality [19:58] <Expelliarmas> i think Ollivander pulled a more effective Slughorn and went into the wizard witness protection program. [19:58] <Mokey> but woudn't the order know if DD had Ollivander?<br This post has been edited by Aislinn: Jul 26 2006, 08:31 PM |
 |
  
 
|
|
Jul 26 2006, 08:36 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Chief Cat Herder Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain! |
[19:58] <Val_Halla> lol, Mona
[19:58] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL [19:58] <Psyche> WWPP? [19:58] <harryfreak359> yeah me to expel [19:58] <Narya> Not necessarily Mokey [19:58] <Whisperwing> All of Ollivander's wands were gone, weren't they? So it was certainly more than a mere snatching. [19:58] <gryffindelle> not necessarily, mokey [19:58] <Narya> DD knows more and doesn't share everything [19:58] <ProngsPatronus> no--Dumbledore kept a lot of secrets to himself [19:58] <harryfreak359> yeah Narya [19:58] <Psyche> I see your point PP - after what he said to Draco on the tower [19:58] <Expelliarmas> were the wands stolen? that may be because they need weapons and want to deny the other side access to wands. [19:58] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Do you think he did it to his own detriment? [19:58] <ProngsPatronus> I believe that the one in the window was still there [19:59] <Narya> yes, GFAB [19:59] <Mokey> that is true Narya, but I still don't have a good feeling about Ollivander, he gives me the shiver, I think he's a power creep [19:59] <gryffindelle> maybe [19:59] <Wizardmom> that's what make DD's death so hard, it's obvious he knows more than he let on, so how's Harry gonna find out? [19:59] <aranelparmadil> Dd tells draco that he could be hidden more effectively than he could ever imagine - dd knows how to hide people very well so he could hide Ollivander, no prob [19:59] <Narya> I don't, I think he's OK - just very scared [19:59] <Psyche> He's still creepy though [19:59] <gryffindelle> but i think he's good [19:59] <Mokey> I agree Wizardmom [19:59] <gryffindelle> one reason is that he's in diagon, not knockturn alley [19:59] <Aislinn> let's stick to the horcruxes, folks [19:59] <ProngsPatronus> I think he is very, very old, and knows a great deal--and is neutral, most of the time [19:59] <harryfreak359> yeah wizardmom [19:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> PP - I agree with you - he's neutral [20:00] <Tanaqui> sorry to go back to the wand horcrux possibility, but wouldn't that be the like the hat also--a clashing of magics? [20:00] <ProngsPatronus> back to Horcruxes [20:00] <Val_Halla> Whatever the horcruxes are, I'm sure we've seen them somewhere [20:00] <Psyche> anyways - I think he missed one of the 4 founders items [20:00] <harryfreak359> I agree Tanaqui [20:00] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he has to be a bit of an arbitrator of sorts - in selecting the wand to suit the wizard [20:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> unbiased [20:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> blah [20:00] <gryffindelle> dd did say gryff OR ravenclaw [20:00] *** Winky05 has quit [Bye] [20:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> *off topic* [20:00] <Psyche> I'm Ravenclaw suspicous [20:00] <Psyche> Cuz gryff seems a bit obvious [20:00] <MonaOgg> How about DD's gargoyle guard? That would be an in-your-face [20:00] <Expelliarmas> my vote is for a ravenclaw horcrux, we know nothing about her. [20:01] <Psyche> And I'm usually wrong about these things [20:01] <Psyche> :angel: [20:01] <Wizardmom> I agree Expel [20:01] <Mokey> yeah we know nothing Expelliarmus [20:01] <ProngsPatronus> Dumbledore said that the only two known relics of Gryffindor's were in his office [20:01] *** Professor_Nigellus has quit [Bye] [20:01] <Mokey> but I don't think she had a tiara [20:01] <Mokey> she doesn't seem the type [20:01] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the hat and the sword [20:01] <Val_Halla> KNOWN relics [20:01] <aranelparmadil> Zaccarias Smith - definitely a relative of Hepzibah. [20:01] <Aislinn> and its not the hat, as JKR told us [20:01] <Narya> She could have had the wand, as PP said earlier [20:01] <Expelliarmas> well, tom only had enough time to jink the DADA job, so he didn't get a chance to create a horcrux in front of DD [20:01] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Do we know if the portraits of the founders are in the office? [20:02] <gryffindelle> she didn't say that specifically though, did she aislinn [20:02] <Narya> we don't, GFAB [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> well, I think that it would have turned on Harry if the sword had been a Horcrux [20:02] <MonaOgg> how about a part of the castle itself? the founders built it, after all [20:02] <Psyche> but if the sword was a horcrux, why was it used in such a way in CoS [20:02] <Val_Halla> Maybe Tom found some other relic [20:02] <Tanaqui> okay, this is what is said on rowena's card: She's best remembered for her intelligence and creativity [20:02] <Aislinn> I thought she was pretty clear gryff [20:02] <gryffindelle> ok [20:02] <Expelliarmas> Ah, Zacharias [however you spell his name]. Looks like somebody is going to have to talk to him about the Hufflepuff cup. [20:02] <Narya> The creativity bit is interesting [20:02] <gryffindelle> i'm still not sure [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> I believe that the Room of Requirement is attributed to her [20:02] <Narya> it's the kind of thing she would create [20:02] <Mokey> that's interesing PP [20:02] <Val_Halla> really Prongs? [20:02] <Aislinn> yes, pp [20:03] <gryffindelle> hmm. . . [20:03] <Tanaqui> so whatever her relic is, it would be creative, i think [20:03] <Wizardmom> ooohh,, that could be cool [20:03] <MonaOgg> actually, I'd be more than happy to give House Elf magic the credit for the RoR [20:03] *** gryffindelle has quit [Bye] [20:03] <ProngsPatronus> we had a thread about this in the CoS reading group [20:03] <Narya> And there is a lot to discover in that room [20:03] <magicmeg8> Let's try to figure out some more: Do you believe that Nagini is a Horcrux? If not the snake, what other possibilities exist? [20:03] <Aislinn> I think the wand idea is an excellent one - she would use it for a lot of the creative and intelligent things she did, like making the RoR [20:03] <Whisperwing> And she's got what looks like a blue print of Hogwarts before her in the illustration. [20:03] *** gryffindelle has joined #lounge [20:03] <Whisperwing> I've got at least three of ther. [20:04] <MonaOgg> not Nagini, I don't think [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> I do not think that nagini is a Horcrux, but an ally [20:04] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:04] <Psyche> If NAgini is a horcux she's the last one to go [20:04] <Wizardmom> Nagini is a possibility, but I'm not sold on her yet [20:04] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think that the description of contents in RoR in HBP when Harry hid the potions text is significant [20:04] <Narya> Is Nagini a Horcrux? I'm not sure [20:04] <Tanaqui> i also do not think nagini is a horcrux [20:04] <Aislinn> I tend to think Nagini is NOT a horcrux [20:04] <Val_Halla> I don't think Nagini is one [20:04] <Tanaqui> though i really couldn't defend my position smile [20:04] <Mokey> bbiab [20:04] <harryfreak359> yes, Meg I do think that Nagini is a horcrux, and I think that see became a hrocrux after LV's downfall [20:04] <Aislinn> me too ginbot [20:04] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and some can probably be matched back to CoS when Harry was in B&B [20:04] <harryfreak359> she* not see [20:04] <Whisperwing> wow, what a lag... [20:04] <magicmeg8> hmm. I think she's the weakest option, personally [20:04] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the way JK describes both scenes is similar [20:04] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - lag [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> well, think of the list of Houcruxes--even Dumbledore wasn't sure about Nagini [20:04] <gryffindelle> he wouldn't make anything that's really sentient a horcrux, its just not like lv [20:05] <Aislinn> whisper - best to leave and return if you are lagging badly [20:05] <Whisperwing> It's over [20:05] <Aislinn> cool smile [20:05] <Val_Halla> sentient and mortal as well [20:05] *** Psyche has quit [Bye] [20:05] *** Psyche has joined #lounge [20:05] <Whisperwing> I think it was from opening the streaming pottercast player [20:05] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:06] <gryffindelle> , vall [20:06] <magicmeg8> I think the fact that we have any doubt about it in the books -- DD says making a Horcrux out of a sentient being is unusual -- is a sign that it's not right. [20:06] <gryffindelle> *val [20:06] <ProngsPatronus> however--Nagini would be a great place to HIDE a Horcrux [20:06] *** Psyche has quit [Bye] [20:06] <Narya> Yes, and DD is usually not too far off the mark [20:06] *** Psyche has joined #lounge [20:06] <Aislinn> so if Nagini is not a horcrux, we are missing one - any ideas? [20:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes PP - probably [20:06] *** Hagrid289 has joined #lounge [20:06] <harryfreak359> . . . [20:06] <Expelliarmas> oh gross, hiding the horcrux in the snake. blah. [20:06] <Whisperwing> Plus, it had just been established that DD acknowledges that he makes mistakes [20:06] <Val_Halla> Some unknown relic of GG [20:06] <gryffindelle> hmm. . . [20:06] <MonaOgg> I don't think that Nagini is a horcrux because she is too independent, communicates with her master but not in a way that makes you think they're the same mind... and because it'd be too risky because she roams about freely [20:06] <Tanaqui> PP--that's a great idea! but how long would it be able to remain inside her? [20:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> do we get a good description of Nagini's physique, for lack of a better term [20:06] <ProngsPatronus> well, I thought the inferi were gross [20:06] <ProngsPatronus> ick [20:06] <Whisperwing> Oh I think it's something of Dumbledore's. [20:06] <gryffindelle> ravenclaw AND gryff artifacts [20:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> oooh - W/W - wow [20:06] <Narya> She's a pretty big and powerful snake [20:07] <Psyche> maybe its a crochet pattern [20:07] <gryffindelle> as horcruxes [20:07] <harryfreak359> inferi would be a good topic for a chat... [20:07] <MonaOgg> I heard speculation that Harry himself could be a horcrux, but I disagree [20:07] <Whisperwing> Yes, because as much as he feared him, it would make sense he'd want that sort of symbolic victory over DD by making something of his into a Horcrux [20:07] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm just wondering how an h/c could be hidden in/on her [20:07] <gryffindelle> me too mona [20:07] <underthecupboard87> maybe nagini is guarding a horcrux? or does she always follow voldemort around? [20:07] <Aislinn> we did that one harryfreak [20:07] <Psyche> I'm convinced Harry isnt a horcrux [20:07] <Val_Halla> Do you guys think he could have made Nagini a horcrux with the intention of transferring the soul bit later? Could it be transferred? [20:07] <Psyche> nor is his scar [20:07] <harryfreak359> oh [20:07] <Psyche> nor his green eyes [20:07] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I don't think he is either [20:07] <harryfreak359> I missed it...too bad [20:07] <Narya> Harry isn't a Horcrux in any way [20:08] <ProngsPatronus> I agree [20:08] <harryfreak359> I don't think so either [20:08] <Whisperwing> Nor is Hedwig or Crookshanks [20:08] <harryfreak359> lag is horrible [20:08] <Aislinn> narya - does your wild theory belong in here somewhere? smile [20:08] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Although I will give kudos to Mokey for such a compelling essay smile [20:08] <Expelliarmas> But Mrs. Norris? [20:08] <Narya> not yet biggrin [20:08] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [20:08] <Tanaqui> it seems nagini is always with voldemort... [20:08] <magicmeg8> Harryfreak, try refreshing the page. [20:08] <Psyche> (refresh Harryfreak) [20:08] <Aislinn> :) [20:08] <Psyche> (oh he did) [20:08] *** towerdweller has quit [Bye] [20:09] <Tanaqui> so what was the question? [20:09] *** michpotter has joined #lounge [20:09] <magicmeg8> (you can also try clearing your cache, harry freak) [20:09] <Psyche> Mrs Norris is just a cake [20:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Tanaqui - not sure - I think LV has sent Nagini on missions [20:09] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [20:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> away from him [20:09] <Tanaqui> okay, thanks...i got a little lost [20:09] <Narya> I think the sentient beings as Horcruxes is a red herring [20:09] *** towerdweller has joined #lounge [20:09] <underthecupboard87> was she there with him in the graveyard? [20:09] <ProngsPatronus> the other Horcrux [20:09] <ProngsPatronus> yes, she was [20:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Narya - agree [20:09] <Narya> She may well have been [20:09] <Val_Halla> yes, under the cupboard [20:09] <Expelliarmas> the snake was at the graveyard [20:09] <magicmeg8> The founders have been related to the 4 elements - air, water, fire, and earth. Is it possible that these have a relationship to the hiding places of the horcruxes? [20:09] <Wizardmom> argh, this discussion is great, but I've gotta go back to memorizing zips... see y'all later [20:09] <gryffindelle> yes [20:09] <Narya> Yes, Meg [20:10] <Aislinn> bye, mom! [20:10] <gryffindelle> we have water [20:10] <MonaOgg> Ooh wow, hadn't thought of that [20:10] <Psyche> Why zips? [20:10] <ProngsPatronus> bye, wizardmom! [20:10] <Expelliarmas> water for the locket? [20:10] <gryffindelle> or could that be earth [20:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> would the diary be earth? [20:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or fire? [20:10] <harryfreak359> cool Meg, I never thought of that [20:10] <Whisperwing> Well the locket was in a watery cave.... [20:10] *** Wizardmom has quit [Bye] [20:10] <Aislinn> for the cave one you think, gryff? [20:10] <MonaOgg> what would the ring have been? [20:10] <Tanaqui> diary isn't from one of the founders, though, is it? [20:10] <Psyche> The locket was water - slytherin is water [20:10] <Whisperwing> Diary's not related to the four founders. [20:10] <Psyche> Ravenclaw is Air [20:10] <Narya> Water for the locket [20:10] <gryffindelle> prob water [20:10] *** Hagrid289 has quit [Bye] [20:10] <Psyche> Gryffindor is Fire [20:11] <Psyche> Hufflepuff is Earth [20:11] <gryffindelle> but it couldve been earth [20:11] <Expelliarmas> the diary might be earth if not air. the ring was found at the remains of the Gaunt's home, is that earth? [20:11] <magicmeg8> WW, i'd think the Diary would be sort of LV's mark on the world [20:11] <Aislinn> no, tanaqui [20:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> u r rite Meg smile [20:11] <magicmeg8> smile [20:11] <MonaOgg> locket of Slytherin is water, that would fit [20:11] <Whisperwing> Ooh they'll have to go to the Fire Marsh for the GG artifact. [20:11] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:11] <gryffindelle> mona [20:11] <MonaOgg> what's the Hufflepuff artefact? [20:11] <harryfreak359> I don't think there is anything from Gryffindor that became a horcrux [20:11] <gryffindelle> the goblet [20:11] <Psyche> the cup [20:11] <Narya> The cup, probably [20:11] <Aislinn> the diary is not one from a founder, so the elements do not directly apply, imo [20:11] <aranelparmadil> The cup [20:11] <Whisperwing> Golden cup [20:11] <Tanaqui> i agree aislinn [20:12] <gryffindelle> was it golden? [20:12] <Narya> yes [20:12] *** BOUiLLABAiSSE has joined #lounge [20:12] <gryffindelle> ok [20:12] <gryffindelle> thanx [20:12] <Expelliarmas> was the cup golden? [20:12] <Aislinn> I wonder if the cup is under gringott's - that is and earth location [20:12] <MonaOgg> was it *found*? I can't remember! O_o [20:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yep [20:12] <gryffindelle> that's possible [20:12] <harryfreak359> don't remember [20:12] <gryffindelle> that would be funny though [20:12] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [20:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - the Hezelga?? sp?? [20:12] *** michpotter has quit [Bye] [20:12] <Tanaqui> gold would make sense due to the house colors [20:12] <magicmeg8> I've thought about that gringott's cave as well [20:12] <magicmeg8> Hepzibah [20:12] <Expelliarmas> ah, helga? [20:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> what's her name again? [20:12] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [20:12] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> hey i just found this [20:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hez?? [20:12] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not helga [20:12] <MonaOgg> so where would you hide something in fire? [20:13] <ProngsPatronus> Helga Hufflepuff [20:13] <Aislinn> hepzibah [20:13] <MonaOgg> or in the air? [20:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the elderly lady - yep [20:13] <ProngsPatronus> Hepzibah [20:13] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> what are you talking about? [20:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hepzibah [20:13] <Val_Halla> We know LV can break into Gringotts from PS/SS - hmmm [20:13] <Narya> small golden cup - so definitely golden [20:13] <gryffindelle> air-sky, fly to get it [20:13] <MonaOgg> the Quidditch Hoop of Ravenclaw? [20:13] <Whisperwing> Ravenclaw as air.... Something at the top of a spire, maybe [20:13] <gryffindelle> fire, salamander lair [20:13] <harryfreak359> hey BOUiLLABAiSSE [20:13] <magicmeg8> Bou, we're discussing the Horcruxes and their relation to the founders. [20:13] <Aislinn> we are talking about horcruxes and their location right now, bouillabaisse [20:13] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> He or his cronies break in GG for the philosopher's stone [20:13] <towerdweller> Six Horcruxes but only four elements. The founder's items should be found in places that are associated with the house element. The other two (Snake and Diary) would be differenct. [20:14] <Psyche> The North Tower? WW [20:14] <ProngsPatronus> hmmm--maybe it's a snitch [20:14] <ProngsPatronus> a golden snitch [20:14] <Narya> Six but only four ... so how do we square that, TD? [20:14] <MonaOgg> the ring and the diary don't count as founders items [20:14] <Tanaqui> i don't know that any of the horcruxes would be at hogwarts... [20:14] <Val_Halla> The Snitch of GG? haha [20:14] <harryfreak359> does everyone think that one of the Horcruxes is from Gryffindor? [20:14] <Expelliarmas> why wouldn't the ring count? [20:14] <Psyche> Maybe the cup is in Gringotts [20:14] <gryffindelle> yes [20:14] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> its not one of the founders [20:14] <Psyche> (earth) [20:14] <towerdweller> The ring should. It was Slytherin's [20:14] <Whisperwing> Maybe -- and maybe it's that quill she was using to draw the blueprints of Hogwarts with in the Chocolate Frog card. [20:14] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> no it wasnt [20:14] <MonaOgg> was it? [20:14] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> But the ring and diary belong to heirs of Slytherin so... could the other also be an heirloom [20:14] <harryfreak359> I thought DD said that, LV didn't get anything from Gryffindor [20:14] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i looked it up a couple days ago [20:15] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> of slyth, that is [20:15] <aranelparmadil> Because thr ring belonged to the Gaunts, I guess - although it was Slytherin's [20:15] <MonaOgg> DD wasn't always right though [20:15] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> it had a peverrel coat of arms & was black [20:15] <ProngsPatronus> the ring has the Peverell crest on it [20:15] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah [20:15] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> it was never said that it was slytherin's [20:15] <ProngsPatronus> so, it is unlikely to have belonged to Slytherin himself [20:15] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah [20:16] <Aislinn> and we have the locket, that definitely was slytherin's [20:16] <ProngsPatronus> it was a Gaunt family heirloom, I think [20:16] <Narya> Slytherin's locket ... and the ring in a powerful family [20:16] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah [20:16] <Expelliarmas> I totally misread the ring belonging to slytherin then. [20:16] <harryfreak359> didn't LV have two items Slytherin related? [20:16] <Tanaqui> how did we get the assumption the ring was slytherin's? [20:16] <Psyche> Maybe he took something from the Riddle house, as a trophy [20:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> so we have three id'd possessions of heirs of slyth [20:16] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> just because gaunt had it [20:16] <magicmeg8> That's just what i was thinking, psyche [20:16] <aranelparmadil> Me too, expel - I thought Gaunt said it was - will have to reread [20:16] *** QallieQuail has joined #lounge [20:16] <Psyche> The ring came from his mothers family... [20:16] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> ring, locket, diary [20:16] <harryfreak359> the ring and the locket, both where from slytherin [20:16] <MonaOgg> if it's true he couldn't get anything belonging to GG, maybe he used something to symbolise him? [20:16] <Expelliarmas> I thought marvolo claimed the ring was slytherin's? [20:16] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> no the ring wasnt [20:16] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> nope [20:16] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> he never did [20:16] <harryfreak359> yeah [20:17] <magicmeg8> But the ring was a gaunt heirloom. [20:17] <harryfreak359> he did [20:17] <magicmeg8> for his mother's side. [20:17] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - but both can be considered heir possessions now [20:17] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yes it was a gaunt heirloom [20:17] <magicmeg8> right [20:17] <Tanaqui> and very important to him [20:17] <Aislinn> I don't think he would see something of the riddles as a trophy, as they are just filthy muggles [20:17] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> but it wasnt slytherins [20:17] <Expelliarmas> *runs and searches book* [20:17] <Psyche> could the Diary have come from The Riddle House and Later embossed with TMR? [20:17] * harryfreak359 looking at the book [20:17] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i just looked it up a couple of days ago [20:17] <magicmeg8> Yeah, that's the only setback, Ais [20:17] <ProngsPatronus> it came from Vauxhall, I believe [20:17] <Val_Halla> The ring was proof of being heir to yet another famous pureblood line [20:18] <Narya> Vauxhall Road [20:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> The diary was purchased in a London bookshop [20:18] <Tanaqui> i think the diary was a total experiment [20:18] <Psyche> Could it have been Tom Snr's [20:18] <aranelparmadil> Just checked HBP - Gaunt only says it has been in his family for centuries [20:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> don't think so psyche but not sure [20:18] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:18] <Whisperwing> oooh [20:18] <MonaOgg> since he had the locket that was definitely Slytherin's, I don't think the ring matters too much [20:18] <magicmeg8> I agree Tanaqui [20:18] <harryfreak359> hmmm....the book doesn't say that it is slytherin's [20:18] <ProngsPatronus> I think Tom bought that himself--something he liked, and had seen--he can't have done that often [20:18] <Val_Halla> Tom Sr 's middle name wasn't Marvolo [20:18] <aranelparmadil> He didn't say the ring was slytherin's - that was the locket [20:18] <harryfreak359> and yet I always thought that [20:18] <Narya> Or stolen it, PP [20:18] <Aislinn> if Nagini is not a horcrux, then harry's mantra of the locket, something of ravenclaw or gryffindor's could be ravenclaw AND gryffindor's [20:18] <QallieQuail> the ring was never stated slytherin was it? [20:18] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> no - Gaunt's first name [20:18] <Psyche> no but he could have later embossed it with TMR [20:19] <Aislinn> missed the cup in there [20:19] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Marvolo Gaunt - Merope's da [20:19] <aranelparmadil> Marvolo [20:19] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [20:19] <magicmeg8> Hmm. True, Ais. but i'm not sure what [20:19] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [20:19] *** Tanaqui left #lounge [] [20:19] <ProngsPatronus> that's true, Narya [20:19] <Expelliarmas> UK hardback, p. 196, the ring was in the family for centuries; but the locket was Slytherin's. [20:19] <QallieQuail> checking now [20:20] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:20] <MonaOgg> I don't think the elements will take us far, though [20:20] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> where were you with the elements?> [20:20] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> what were you thinking of? [20:20] <aranelparmadil> Peverell coat of arms - who were the Peverells - anyone important besides proof of pure blood status? [20:20] <Narya> They give us clues, but there are too many Horcruxes to match them [20:20] <Aislinn> Since we don't know for sure what the Gryffindor or Ravenclaw horcruxes are, how will Harry 1)discover what they are; and 2)figure out their location? [20:20] <Narya> TD - what were you thinking with the elements? [20:20] <Val_Halla> 4 founders - four elements -four hiding places [20:20] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i had looked up the coat of arms [20:20] <MonaOgg> earth, air, fire, water as hiding places of the founders' horcruxes [20:20] <gryffindelle> the pensieve [20:21] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> on was depicted as a lion [20:21] <ProngsPatronus> well, the diary and the ring are gone, so that leaves five [20:21] <MonaOgg> pure dumb luck? [20:21] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> the other as three bushels [20:21] <Expelliarmas> Bou, what was the coat of arms? [20:21] <Narya> Peverell [20:21] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> the lion one was red [20:21] <magicmeg8> I think Harry will have to seek out family of both, personally. [20:21] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> the bushel one blue [20:21] <gryffindelle> no four, the fifth is in his body, isnt it? [20:21] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah [20:21] <ProngsPatronus> one of those is Voldemort himself [20:21] <Val_Halla> Peter will help Harry, maybe [20:21] <Narya> What did DD say? Harry has to use what he knows alreday [20:21] <QallieQuail> Peter owes Harry [20:21] <ProngsPatronus> so, there are four [20:21] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah [20:21] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Narya - right [20:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he already has the resources [20:22] <aranelparmadil> JKR just casually mentions the Peverells - that usually indicates a significance [20:22] <ProngsPatronus> so, what does Harry know? [20:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he just knows how to work it [20:22] <magicmeg8> Ooh, I hadn't thought of Petere [20:22] <MonaOgg> How did DD find the locations? He interrogated everyone remotely connected to Tom Riddle.... who's left for Harry to ask? [20:22] <Narya> His magical knowledge, PP [20:22] <Narya> Plus what's inside him [20:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> *I mean - he needs to figure out how to work it [20:22] <Psyche> I'm blinky - I may have to go know - its pretty late here. Bye all! [20:22] <Expelliarmas> Has anyone looked into the Peverell thing? [20:22] <ProngsPatronus> plus what Dumbledore showed him [20:22] <Aislinn> he will remember the locket at Grimmauld place, I bet [20:22] <Psyche> *waves* [20:22] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> I did [20:22] *** Psyche has quit [Bye] [20:22] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> bye [20:22] <aranelparmadil> Thanks expel - tried to make that point a few tmes! [20:22] <Val_Halla> Maybe the pensieve will help [20:22] *** LJ has quit [Bye] [20:22] <ProngsPatronus> bye, Psyche! [20:22] <Narya> that locket is important, and the Pensieve [20:23] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> thats my guess, Val [20:23] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:23] <Aislinn> if he has access to the pensieve [20:23] *** Winky05 has joined #lounge [20:23] <Narya> Those runes were never fully explained [20:23] <Aislinn> and DD left memories behind in bottles [20:23] <MonaOgg> how about the prtrait of the headmaster? if it wakes up? [20:23] <gryffindelle> i'm sure mcgonagall will give him what ever he needs [20:23] <harryfreak359> i think the pensieve will help a lot [20:23] <ProngsPatronus> if the Peverell thing was important to the ring, and the ring wwas destroyed [20:23] <Narya> and those instruments in the office - what do they do? [20:23] <Aislinn> except she doesn't know what he is doing [20:23] <gryffindelle> and the pensieve is still presumable in the headmaster's office [20:23] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> the ring wasnt destroyed [20:24] <aranelparmadil> Why were the memories in bottles and not just removed as shining strands from his head as before? [20:24] <Expelliarmas> maybe harry inherits DD's things. [20:24] <harryfreak359> yeah it was bou [20:24] <Val_Halla> Dumbledore had to have left a will - maybe he will leave something useful for Harry [20:24] <Aislinn> the horcrux in it was bou [20:24] <harryfreak359> the horcrux part of it was [20:24] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> really? i thought dumbledore was wearing it [20:24] <Expelliarmas> The horcrux aspect of the ring was destroyed. but not the ring itself? [20:24] <gryffindelle> what if the pensieve was a horcrux [20:24] <ProngsPatronus> there was a crack in the crest, so the ring has been rendered useless as a Horcrux [20:24] <Aislinn> it was cracked [20:24] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> oo [20:24] <MonaOgg> maybe one of the ghosts will know something [20:24] <Val_Halla> We never really have learned what all those instruments of DD's were [20:24] <harryfreak359> yeah, but he destroyed it [20:24] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i thought you meant the ring itself [20:24] *** Whisperwing has quit [Bye] [20:24] <harryfreak359> no, just the borcrux inside it [20:24] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah okay [20:24] <harryfreak359> horcrux* [20:25] <ProngsPatronus> sorry--I am a slow typist, so I tend to use shorthand! [20:25] <harryfreak359> right there with you PP [20:25] <Expelliarmas> were DD's memories bottled? I thought that was just how he collected them? Blast, did I misread that too? [20:25] <magicmeg8> What do you think must happen in order to destroy a Horcrux? What is the process like? [20:25] <Expelliarmas> painful [20:25] <ProngsPatronus> I have a theory [20:26] <harryfreak359> very interesting does that count? [20:26] <Aislinn> do share smile [20:26] <harryfreak359> yes PP, we love theories [20:26] <Expelliarmas> please don't teast like a certain someone did last week. [20:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Well we caught a glimpse of how one horcrux got destroyed in CoS [20:26] <aranelparmadil> The last memory he showed Harry he poured into the pensieve from a bottle - said it was his. Why was it in a bottle and not removed from his head as done before? [20:26] <harryfreak359> yes [20:26] <Narya> biggrin [20:26] <Narya> go on, PP [20:26] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Dumbledore showed the memories to harry so that harry would know where to search for thew Horcruxes--and Dumbledore tried to go for the ones that were better hidden [20:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> It was Slytherin's pet basilisk essentially [20:27] <MonaOgg> his Pensieve probably was filled up [20:27] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> a fang from him/her [20:27] *** stinkywinky has quit [Bye] [20:27] <Narya> Yes, those memories are vital, including the bottled ones [20:27] <Aislinn> that's a possibility PP [20:27] <Expelliarmas> so the memories can be stored in bottles, apparently for a long time [20:27] <Aislinn> JKR has said that Harry knows more than he realizes [20:27] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:27] <Narya> yes, he does [20:27] <ProngsPatronus> the orphanage is a possible hiding place [20:27] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> hmm maybe [20:27] <MonaOgg> that means we ought to know more than we realise as well! [20:28] <MonaOgg> argh! [20:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not sure if he'd be so careless PP [20:28] <ProngsPatronus> what would Muggles do with a Horcrux? [20:28] <Aislinn> exactly! [20:28] <Expelliarmas> would we have another TR childhood hiding place in book 7? [20:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> orphanage - reckless exploring kids [20:28] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> hogwarts [20:28] <ProngsPatronus> lol--but trmember what the lady said about the rafters? [20:28] *** julisara has joined #lounge [20:28] <Aislinn> have we heard of any other locations for LV? [20:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> perhaps in Slytherin's old office [20:28] <Narya> What did Tom keep? A mouth organ, a thimble and something else? [20:28] <Expelliarmas> so far, we've had hiding places frequented by TR. Hogwarts is a possibility. [20:29] <MonaOgg> do you think it was his father who died for the diary horcrux or Moaning Myrtle? [20:29] <Val_Halla> His dad [20:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> MM [20:29] <gryffindelle> myrtle [20:29] *** MonaOgg has quit [Bye] [20:29] <Winky05> Myrtle [20:29] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> riddle didnt kill myrtle [20:29] <Narya> It was Myrtle [20:29] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> the basilisk did [20:29] <gryffindelle> he hated his dad too much [20:29] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think Moaning Myrtle was made into a Horcrux [20:29] <aranelparmadil> a yoyo, narya [20:29] <Aislinn> me either [20:29] *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge [20:29] <Narya> thanks aranel [20:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> does he actually have to directly commit the act? [20:29] <Aislinn> she was not an intentional death [20:29] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i think so [20:29] <Expelliarmas> the drama ghost was not worthy. she was an accident. the muggle relatives were significant. [20:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> technically he did kill her [20:29] <Narya> She was an accidental death [20:29] <Val_Halla> He only made the diary when he was forced to close the Chamber [20:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he just used the basilisk as a weapon [20:30] *** MonaOgg has joined #lounge [20:30] <aranelparmadil> I think so, Ginny [20:30] <magicmeg8> How else can a Horcrux be destroyed, do you think? [20:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yep - I think it was an attack directed by TMR [20:30] <aranelparmadil> I think you do have to commit the murder yourself in person in order to create a horcrux [20:30] <gryffindelle> no idea [20:30] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> same here aranel [20:31] <harryfreak359> by a powerful charm or potion [20:31] <Val_Halla> I think you can AK it - simply separate the soul from the object [20:31] <ProngsPatronus> hmmm--I think putting it through the Veil would do the trick [20:31] <Expelliarmas> Hermione will likely know. [20:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but what's the difference between using a wand or a basilisk [20:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> murder is more about intent [20:31] <gryffindelle> i doubt it expel [20:31] <Aislinn> it seems to be able to be released by destroying the vessel it is in [20:31] <MonaOgg> by throwing in into the depths of the nearest volcano [20:31] <towerdweller> I think you only have do physcially damage the Horcrux itself. [20:31] <harryfreak359> hmm...good idea Val, never thought of that [20:31] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> Hermione hadnt even heard of horcruxes [20:31] <Narya> Sending it "home" for good, PP? [20:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he used the basilisk rather than his wand [20:31] <harryfreak359> that's good too PP [20:31] <Val_Halla> lol, Mona [20:31] <CarpeDiem> It would also be destroyed after it has been used, correct? [20:31] <Aislinn> I think its going to be different for each one [20:31] <harryfreak359> ya'll are so clever... [20:32] <Val_Halla> used? [20:32] <Expelliarmas> yes, but she weill make it her business to figure out how to destroy dark magic. the rest will be up to harry to do instinctively. [20:32] <Narya> You could physically damage it, TD and that would remove the Horcrux incantation, wouldn't it? [20:32] <magicmeg8> Well, even though the soul is encased in the object, destroying the object itself wouldn't seem to necessarily destroy the soul part [20:32] <MonaOgg> the basilisk tooth worked fine on the diary, but why? [20:32] <magicmeg8> in my opinion [20:32] <Aislinn> it did in the diary, and cracking the ring seemed to work [20:32] <harryfreak359> I agree with you meg [20:32] <MonaOgg> was it the poison or the damage to the paper? [20:32] <towerdweller> I think so. We see physcial damage to the diary and ring (crack). [20:32] <magicmeg8> well, the tooth spread poison. [20:32] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> but we dont know if all DD did was crack the ring [20:32] <Val_Halla> Or maybe the ring cracked when the soul was released [20:32] <Expelliarmas> tossing it through the veil or some other room in the dept of mysteries seems a good idea. Isn't there a room devoted to love there. [20:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> So I wonder - going back to Riddle's parents - would he have made an horcrux out of an object from his father's home? [20:33] <magicmeg8> true, ais. that just seems so simple. well, i mean, HURTING the object itself is a challenge [20:33] <aranelparmadil> Yes expel - the one permanently locked [20:33] *** QallieQuail has quit [Bye] [20:33] <Narya> but that would be a Muggle artefact, GFAB, and he hated Muggles [20:33] <Aislinn> yeah, but that would mean that Harry would have to be able to ttransport it from wherever he finds it, getting it out of the protections around it, then break into the MoM [20:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he holes himself up there while he recovers so he has some attachment to the place [20:33] <Val_Halla> The diary wasn't hurt by being soaked in a toilet I think it takes more than damaging the object [20:33] <MonaOgg> I wonder whether his father's death was used for the diary or rather Gaunt's ring, and Moaning Myrtle for the diary [20:33] <Aislinn> yes meg [20:33] <MonaOgg> right Val [20:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think that getting through the protections on the object is the challenge [20:33] <harryfreak359> yeah aislinn, that'd be hard too do [20:34] <Aislinn> well, water and physical rending are 2 different things val [20:34] <harryfreak359> he'd probably never make it [20:34] <Narya> yes, that's why DD's hand was so badly burned [20:34] <towerdweller> In the case of the locket, I think that forcing it open will release the soul part. To do that the locket will have to be broken open. [20:34] <ProngsPatronus> the real protection on the diary was Tom Riddle himself [20:34] *** underthecupboard87 has quit [Bye] [20:34] <Aislinn> agreed tower [20:34] <magicmeg8> Yeah, PP and ais -- i suppose that;s really the protection, and once you get to the vulnerable object, it can be set free? [20:34] *** underthecupboard87 has joined #lounge [20:34] *** julisara left #lounge [] [20:34] <MonaOgg> but a muggle diary would be a bit risky to use if all it took was a torn page [20:34] <Narya> So it could be magically sealed, TD? [20:34] <Aislinn> that's what I think meg [20:34] <CarpeDiem> Good point - would the diary have been destroyed if Harry had used something other than the basilisk tooth? [20:34] <magicmeg8> Hi underthecupboard, we're discussing how to destroy a horcrux. feel free to join in [20:34] <Expelliarmas> the locket noone seemed able to open? Doesn't seem well protected away from the cave, does it? [20:34] *** Mokey has quit [Bye] [20:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I don't think so CD [20:35] <underthecupboard87> thanks [20:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think there's a connection [20:35] <magicmeg8> smile [20:35] <Narya> It's not easily opened for a reason, I think [20:35] <ProngsPatronus> I think it will take Parselmouth to open it [20:35] <CarpeDiem> Expell the one in the cave was not the "real" locket anyway [20:35] <aranelparmadil> Did Mundungous steal the locket? [20:35] <Narya> ooh, good catch PP [20:35] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i think so [20:35] <towerdweller> Right, N. None of the group could open the locket in OotP. [20:35] <Aislinn> ooh - that makes sense, PP [20:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> doubt it aranel for some reason [20:35] <Expelliarmas> I'm talking about the locket found in OOTP which no one could open. [20:35] <aranelparmadil> Why not, Ginny? [20:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think it would have been too hot to handle for dung [20:35] <Narya> So - speak Parseltongue and the locket opens [20:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> cursed [20:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> er... [20:36] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> how do I.. [20:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> um [20:36] <aranelparmadil> Easily lifted though - and he just took whatever he thought he could sell [20:36] <magicmeg8> too powerful? [20:36] *** RupertLover has joined #lounge [20:36] *** MonaOgg has quit [Bye] [20:36] <magicmeg8> or dangerous, perhaps, gin? [20:36] <Expelliarmas> I think dung did steal the locket and moved it to another location away from #12 grimmauld place. [20:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not cursed but too much for him to handle - he wouldn't risk it - thinks too much of his own survival [20:36] <ProngsPatronus> Tom Riddle says something curious in CoS [20:36] *** MonaOgg has joined #lounge [20:36] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> would he know what it was [20:36] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> ? [20:36] <Val_Halla> yes, PP [20:36] <aranelparmadil> But he doesn't know the locket has significance - just that it is a silver item worth selling [20:37] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yes [20:37] <harryfreak359> let's hear it PP! [20:37] <CarpeDiem> Gin, he would have had to know what it was before hand then wouldn't he? If he was grabbing other things, what's a silly old locket to add to it? [20:37] <towerdweller> Actually the locket is gold. [20:37] <ProngsPatronus> he says that he believes that he and Harry are the only two parselmouths to come to Hogwarts since Salazar Slytherin [20:37] <MonaOgg> gold melts [20:37] <aranelparmadil> Sorry tower - you're right [20:37] <gryffindelle> wat if the locket really was a horcrux and lv put the note there to make ppl look for it and just waste time [20:37] <RupertLover> i dont think there is a horcrux in nagini [20:37] <Narya> Yes, that's true - they are - and TD, good catch [20:37] <Aislinn> not if it has magical protections on it though [20:37] <MonaOgg> whoa gryff [20:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol gryff [20:38] <magicmeg8> In destroying a Horcrux, is it the destroyer required to sacrifice something, do you think? [20:38] <gryffindelle> no ipm serious [20:38] *** RupertLover has quit [Bye] [20:38] <gryffindelle> *im [20:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> good argument, but I'm not so sure [20:38] <Narya> Yes, DD sacrificed himself [20:38] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> sorry - I was lagging [20:38] <Val_Halla> No, I don't think a sacrifice is required [20:38] <gryffindelle> yes [20:38] <Expelliarmas> well, Tom likes crude tributes, so DD was required to give a blood tribute to access the cave ... [20:38] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> what did harry have to sacrifice then magic? [20:38] <gryffindelle> it could be hatred or something [20:38] <Narya> Another show of Tom's magical ability [20:39] <magicmeg8> Well, Harry was almost killed in destroying the diary [20:39] <MonaOgg> yes and no! lol I think no sacrifice in the exact sense of the word, but it'll take a lot out of a person (see DD) [20:39] <magicmeg8> and DD's hand was very much hurt [20:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm not so sure it is that he likes crude tributes, but rather he knows no better than crude [20:39] <towerdweller> No sacrifce to destroy the Horcrux itself. But to get at it maybe.....like the cave. [20:39] <ProngsPatronus> blood magic is a very old type of magic [20:39] <Val_Halla> Agreed, Mona [20:39] <ProngsPatronus> and is generally considered to be a Dark magic [20:39] *** RupertLover has joined #lounge [20:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think DD's statement there spoke volumes [20:39] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i agree as well [20:39] <underthecupboard87> I don't think they need to sacrifice something, but I don't think its going to be easy in any sense to destroy one [20:39] <Narya> But - how do we explain DD's slow death from the time the ring was cracked? [20:39] <Expelliarmas> that's where Krum might be handy, this type of crude, Dark magic. [20:40] <magicmeg8> Good thinking, Expel. [20:40] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> oo good point expell [20:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I don't think Krum has the ability to think 'dark' [20:40] <magicmeg8> I'm really not sure, Narya [20:40] <gryffindelle> yeah [20:40] <Aislinn> its really a question of whether it is the horcrux, or the protections that were around it, narya [20:40] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps the blood tribute was for another reason [20:40] <Narya> Metaphorically speaking, DD was doomed as soon as that ring was cracked [20:40] <Narya> that's what puzzles me [20:40] <RupertLover> who is DD? [20:40] <towerdweller> Good ?, Narya. DD was old but is not quite as fast as he once was after the ring. [20:40] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> dumbledore [20:40] <CarpeDiem> Perhaps DD is the only one who has ever destroyed a Horcrux. They're rare in themselves...I doubt few have ever destroyed one. It's something he would have to pass on to Harry. [20:40] <Narya> Dumbledore [20:40] <magicmeg8> True, and we could say that Harry is...possibly [20:40] <CarpeDiem> DD = Dumbledore [20:40] <Expelliarmas> was DD dying from the time he cracked the ring? I thought it was the potin which weakened him? [20:40] <RupertLover> oh [20:40] <Aislinn> it was the protections in the cave, not the horcrux itself(since it wasn't even there) [20:41] <aranelparmadil> If that were true, narya, wouldn't harry be doomed after destroying the diary? [20:41] <Narya> True TD, DD was old [20:41] <RupertLover> TD? [20:41] <Narya> no, because the Basilisk fang destroyed it [20:41] <MonaOgg> no.... he was weakened, and he was old, and technically speaking you're doomed to die when you are born, I don't think it was the ring [20:41] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Harry destroyed one inadvertently in CoS [20:41] <Narya> towerdweller biggrin [20:41] <CarpeDiem> lol mona - good point! [20:41] <RupertLover> Cos? [20:41] <CarpeDiem> COS = Chamber of Secrets [20:41] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> chamber of secrets [20:41] <magicmeg8> Chamber of Secrets [20:41] <gryffindelle> chamber of secretss [20:41] *** x0ginnyW0x has joined #lounge [20:41] <RupertLover> oh [20:42] <aranelparmadil> But Harry used the basilisk fang - we don't know if DD had to use an object to destroy the ring [20:42] <x0ginnyW0x> Hello smile [20:42] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> hello [20:42] <ProngsPatronus> hello [20:42] <magicmeg8> Good point, Aranel [20:42] <Narya> we don't, no - but it seemed to take a part of DD with it - and he was never the same after that point [20:42] <Expelliarmas> Yes, it would have been good to know how DD destroyed the ring horcrux. [20:42] <magicmeg8> Hey ginny! we're talking about destroying horcruxes [20:42] <MonaOgg> I guess it took some experimenting, hence the blackened hand [20:42] *** Tanaqui has joined #lounge [20:42] <aranelparmadil> He was very old, as well - maybe that was a factor? Dunno, just guessing. [20:43] <x0ginnyW0x> Cool, let me just read for a second and get into the swing of things [20:43] <ProngsPatronus> we know that Dumbledore can sense magic [20:43] <CarpeDiem> That is something that he'll have to pass on to Harry. I don't think too many know how to destory one. [20:43] <RupertLover> maybe there is a spell to destroy horcruxes [20:43] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps it was a spell that backlashed [20:43] <Val_Halla> This is probably something Jo purposely held back for suspense (it is a thrilling tale and she wishes to do it justice) [20:43] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> hmm [20:43] <towerdweller> I still think DD's hand was injured acquiring the ring not necessarily in destroying the Horcrux inside. [20:43] <Expelliarmas> DD did say he got hurt because he did not react quickly enough. Jo has made a point of telling us Harry has the reflexes of an athlete from the quidditch training. [20:43] <underthecupboard87> maybe theres some memory in the pensieve from dumbledore about how he destroyed it [20:43] <Narya> might have been a bit of both, TD [20:43] <MonaOgg> he probably used something he thought obvious and LV had warded against it because he knows him? [20:43] <aranelparmadil> Also emphasises Harry's youth compared to DD's age, expel [20:44] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> thats a good thought, utc [20:44] <Expelliarmas> true [20:44] *** jbjeans has joined #lounge [20:44] <RupertLover> ya probbaly [20:44] * harryfreak359 is very hungry and thinks it is time for dinner [20:44] <MonaOgg> DD avoids telling the story to Harry [20:44] <Expelliarmas> somehow the story of the ring's destruction has to be told. [20:44] <ProngsPatronus> dinner--what's that? [20:44] * harryfreak359 gives everyone a goodbye hug--for now [20:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol H/F have a good one [20:44] <Tanaqui> have we seen other areas of dd's age? or what this the only spot? [20:44] <harryfreak359> see ya later [20:44] <x0ginnyW0x> Bye HarryFreak [20:44] <aranelparmadil> Bye harryfreak [20:44] <jbjeans> Hello everyone...I know Im really really late... [20:45] <RupertLover> bye HF [20:45] <ProngsPatronus> bye, H/F [20:45] <gryffindelle> bye harryfreak [20:45] <jbjeans> didn't realize this was happening [20:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi JB [20:45] <harryfreak359> I'll be back monday... [20:45] <Expelliarmas> at the end of OOTP, DD looked old and tired [20:45] <x0ginnyW0x> haha, I forgot too JB [20:45] <Aislinn> I think Harry is more suited to destroying the Horcruxes than DD, maybe in part because of his connection to LV [20:45] <CarpeDiem> Expel I think it was the protections that hurt DD, not destroying the ring itself. The Diary was destroyed easily enough? [20:45] <CarpeDiem> Hiya jbjeans! [20:45] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [20:45] <jbjeans> good point Aislinn [20:45] <Tanaqui> okay, i just wondered if it was age-related or magic-level-related [20:45] <jbjeans> And hello Ginny, Carpe, ginny! [20:45] <Narya> Harry is the one to finish what DD started, Aislinn [20:45] <Expelliarmas> yes, the protections themselves, but I wouldn't put it past Tom to booby trap the horcrux itself. [20:45] <Aislinn> Harry started, narya - with the diary [20:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> CD - I think the reason DD had so much trouble in destroying it is because of the hatred LV had for him [20:45] <aranelparmadil> I agree, narya [20:46] <magicmeg8> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the new Corner Booth Forum (http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showforum=184). If you'd like to read more on Horcruxes check out these links: http://www.leakylounge.com/-t13149.html and http://www.leakylounge.com/-t12491.html [20:46] <towerdweller> I think the cave scene is supposed to show us how well protected the Horcruxes are. Destroying them should be fairly easly in comparions. Otherwise why hide them? [20:46] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is very fortunate that harry had the basilisk fang at all, because it wwas probably the only thing that could have destroyed the diary [20:46] <MonaOgg> I think Harry has an advantage because LV wouldn't have known anything about him while he was warding the horcruxes, his strongest enemy was DD, whom he knew well [20:46] <x0ginnyW0x> aww only 15 minutes! [20:46] <Narya> In a way, Aislinn - but DD did his research even before Harry was born [20:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LV's soul would have contained that hatred [20:46] <x0ginnyW0x> *forehead palm* I missed most of it! [20:46] <Narya> He knew Tom very well [20:46] <Expelliarmas> how did RAB get the locket? [20:46] <Aislinn> true, narya [20:46] <CarpeDiem> Ginny - harry will have just as hard a time then you think? [20:46] <jbjeans> wow...I really need to get these times down right! [20:46] <Narya> that's the mystery, Expel [20:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Expel if we assume it was Regulus - Kreacher [20:46] <jbjeans> good point Narya [20:46] <aranelparmadil> Good question, expel [20:47] <RupertLover> mabe LV told RAB before RAB became good [20:47] <magicmeg8> Haha, jb -- they're listed on that right-side animation [20:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> CD - don't think LV holds the same amount of hate for Harry - it's more fascination [20:47] <ProngsPatronus> what was that theory, narya? [20:47] <Aislinn> and there is an announcement posted forum wide, before the start of each chat [20:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - he wants to kill him, but I think it's more awe he has for Harry [20:47] <Narya> eeek biggrin [20:47] <jbjeans> ah right, thanks meg [20:47] <magicmeg8> smile [20:47] <Expelliarmas> Yes, I think Kreacher drank the potion and that really sent round the tw [20:47] <aranelparmadil> I agree, expel [20:48] <Tanaqui> i agree gfab--we see hatred towards harry from snape [20:48] <Expelliarmas> *Kreacher round the twist. [20:48] <Narya> I think Regulus is what his name suggests - the "heart of the lion" and fooled LV [20:48] <underthecupboard87> thats a good thought expel [20:48] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i agree narya [20:48] <Expelliarmas> no idea regulus meant that [20:48] <Narya> Star constellation [20:48] <aranelparmadil> me either, narya [20:48] <Narya> And JKR is very good at that! [20:48] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> eah [20:48] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> yeah* [20:48] <magicmeg8> Final thoughts, everyone? [20:48] <aranelparmadil> That's a major clue, then [20:48] <MonaOgg> too good [20:49] <jbjeans> Heart of the Lion...can we also take a Gryffindor type clue from that?? [20:49] <Expelliarmas> Kreacher with his elf magic wouldnot have registered inside the cave. As a loyal elf to the black family, other than sirius, he would have drunk the potin. [20:49] <Narya> I think so, definitely [20:49] <Expelliarmas> *potion. [20:49] <MonaOgg> probably swallowed the locket, too [20:49] <Narya> Regulus stole that locket for a reason [20:49] <jbjeans> Like perhaps a heir of Gryff [20:49] <Narya> to thwart LV [20:49] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> i agree [20:49] <Expelliarmas> kind of like Slughorn testing the wine on the houseelves. [20:49] <aranelparmadil> Absolutely, narya [20:49] <Narya> start of that wacky theory!! biggrin [20:50] <jbjeans> yeah [20:50] <ProngsPatronus> I think we need to know more about the Founders, to get more clues about the Horcruxes [20:50] <MonaOgg> I think it's a good theory [20:50] <x0ginnyW0x> gtg guys, Hopefully, I'll get here in time next time around! [20:50] <aranelparmadil> Yes expel - an example of the lack of thought towards creatures like house elves - not viewing them as beings with feelings [20:50] *** x0ginnyW0x has quit [Bye] [20:50] <jbjeans> I'd agree prongs [20:50] <Val_Halla> Eww, Mona, is Kreacher a Horcrux or do we have to check his chamberpot? hahahaha [20:50] <Expelliarmas> now you come out with your theory?!? we have 10 minutes left. get to gabbing. [20:50] <jbjeans> Bye ginny! [20:50] <Tanaqui> narya, have you written this theory anywhere in the lounge? [20:50] <gryffindelle> g2g, see you all on saturday, whats the topic then? [20:50] <Narya> that's up to the Mods biggrin [20:50] <jbjeans> haha [20:50] <underthecupboard87> regalus was in slytherin right? [20:50] <Narya> yes, I have [20:50] <Expelliarmas> lol! [20:50] <Tanaqui> where is it? [20:50] <Narya> In the old Vault 717 biggrin [20:50] <magicmeg8> *Remember this chat will continue at the in the Study Hall of the Chamber of Chat (http://www.chamberofchat.com/chat/enter.asp)* [20:50] <Tanaqui> geez.... [20:51] <Expelliarmas> regulus was in slytherin, slughorn would have like to have the set. [20:51] <MonaOgg> aparently, since Sirius is said to be the only Black not to be in Slytherin [20:51] <underthecupboard87> ok thanks expel [20:51] <gryffindelle> wat's sat's topic? [20:51] <Narya> Regulus was a Slytherin, yes - but that's part of the trick [20:51] <gryffindelle> ??? [20:51] <underthecupboard87> not all slytherins are bad though [20:51] <jbjeans> how so Narya? [20:51] <Expelliarmas> there goes Narya again ... [20:51] <Narya> Not all, no [20:51] <jbjeans> very good point cupboard [20:51] <Narya> Not all Gryffindors are good either [20:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Thanks Meg for the above announcement! [20:52] <gryffindelle> wat's sat's topic? [20:52] <jbjeans> Also a good point Narya [20:52] <Tanaqui> exactly--some are wishywashy [20:52] <underthecupboard87> we thought sirius was bad and he turned out to be good...maybe his brother is the same [20:52] <magicmeg8> Remeber that due to all the Lumos/NY craziness, there will be NO WWC next Wednesday. [20:52] <gryffindelle> for the reading group chat? [20:52] <Expelliarmas> would have a hard time thinking an heir of gryiffindor would end up in slytherin. [20:52] <gryffindelle> ahhhhh [20:53] <aranelparmadil> Yet Harry nearly did, expel [20:53] <magicmeg8> The RG chat topic should be announced soon -- keep checking the calendar [20:53] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> but harrys not the heir of gryffindor [20:53] <gryffindelle> ok [20:53] *** RupertLover has quit [Bye] This post has been edited by Aislinn: Jul 26 2006, 08:39 PM |
|
|
|
|
Jul 26 2006, 08:48 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Chief Cat Herder Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain! |
[20:53] <Expelliarmas> but that had something to do with being marked by TR. a parselmouth only the second one to come to hogwarts since slytherin?
[20:53] <gryffindelle> thanx [20:53] <jbjeans> He's not [20:53] <jbjeans> No [20:53] <magicmeg8> smile [20:53] <gryffindelle> g2g, see you sat [20:53] <gryffindelle> byebye [20:53] <Tanaqui> okay, my final thought: i don't think nagini is a horcrux, but we will be surprised at what turns out to be horcruxes [20:53] *** Padfoot4Eva has joined #lounge [20:53] <magicmeg8> bye gryff! [20:53] *** gryffindelle left #lounge [] [20:53] <magicmeg8> Hey Padfoot biggrin [20:54] <MonaOgg> wait, that Morfin was a Parselmouth, and what about Marvolo? [20:54] <Padfoot4Eva> lolz hi [20:54] <Aislinn> so, narya, we still haven't heard your theory? [20:54] <Val_Halla> I agree Tanaqui [20:54] <jbjeans> I think we'll find some horcurxes that were expected (i.e. locket) and some will be surprises [20:54] <aranelparmadil> Marvolo was too [20:54] <underthecupboard87> marvolo was I think [20:54] <Expelliarmas> yeah, but they were homeschooled, like Lockhart. [20:54] <towerdweller> Final thought: DD was 100% right about all of the Horcrux stuff. [20:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Morfin was = yes [20:54] <MonaOgg> oh, right [20:54] <Narya> It's OT, Aislinn ... if you want me to post it I will [20:54] <jbjeans> Although, I think the surprises will be like--oh duh surprises [20:54] <Val_Halla> Morfin and Marvolo didn't attend Hogwarts [20:54] <ProngsPatronus> they did not go to Hogwarts [20:54] <Narya> Agreed TD [20:54] <magicmeg8> Cool, Towerdweller [20:54] <Narya> yes PP [20:54] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> marvolo was talking to morfun in parseltounge wasnt her? [20:54] <magicmeg8> Still not sure on Nagini [20:55] <aranelparmadil> Yes he was Bouill [20:55] <Padfoot4Eva> i know i just came in but i agree...if dumbledore says it i believe ir [20:55] <Padfoot4Eva> *it [20:55] <Narya> Don't think Nagini fits the mould of a Horcrux [20:55] <underthecupboard87> I'm not sure either...I'm torn [20:55] <Aislinn> ok [20:55] <jbjeans> I'm off for a second, but I'll be in the study hall in a bit! [20:55] <magicmeg8> Well, thanks again for a great chat, everyone. It was quite busy and productive smile. Remember to vote for the next WWC topic smile. [20:55] <aranelparmadil> It's nearly 2am here - I can hardly see the screen any more! [20:56] *** jbjeans has quit [Bye] [20:56] <underthecupboard87> where do you vote? [20:56] <ProngsPatronus> thanks--I had lots of fun! [20:56] <Narya> thanks everyone [20:56] <Aislinn> in the Corner Booth forum [20:56] <Expelliarmas> i always think I'll stay for half an hour and poof, two hours later ... [20:56] <towerdweller> Thanks all. Bye! [20:56] <underthecupboard87> ok thanks [20:56] <Aislinn> its not up yet, but will be later this week [20:56] <MonaOgg> thanks and good night! [20:56] *** MonaOgg left #lounge [] [20:56] <BOUiLLABAiSSE> thanks im glad i found out about this [20:56] *** towerdweller has quit [Bye] [20:56] *** Winky05 has quit [Bye] [20:56] <Aislinn> great chat, everyone! [20:56] <underthecupboard87> night everyone --------------------  To listen and share great filks, check out Swishandfilk.com New stuff: Nina's Piece of Me, MJ's Return to Forever & my Now We'll See |
|
|
|
