Wize Wizard Chat - July 5 Transcript, Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore |
 Jul 5 2006, 08:10 PM
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Chief Cat Herder  Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!    |
[18:52] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge
[18:52] *** Topic is: Albus Wulfric Percival Brian Dumbledore [18:56] *** Trozam has joined #lounge [18:56] <Aislinn> hi tim! [18:58] *** pyrodude67 has joined #lounge [18:58] *** LordValerius has joined #lounge [18:58] <andythehouseelf> Hey guys! [18:59] <pyrodude67> hi [18:59] <LordValerius> hello [18:59] *** stewiegryf has joined #lounge [18:59] <andythehouseelf> Excited about discussing everyones favourtie headmaster? [18:59] <LordValerius> yeah [18:59] <stewiegryf> of course [18:59] <andythehouseelf> WOOT! [19:00] <Aislinn> We'll let folks arrive for a few minutes, and then start discussing biggrin [19:00] <andythehouseelf> smile [19:00] *** LJ has joined #lounge [19:00] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [19:01] <Aislinn> hi expelliarmas [19:01] <Expelliarmas> good evening to you all. [19:01] <stewiegryf> 'ello [19:01] <andythehouseelf> Hey all! [19:01] <andythehouseelf> Happy Leaky Day to everyone! [19:02] <Aislinn> Happy Leaky day! [19:02] <Expelliarmas> Oh, yes! Happy Leaky Day, right up there with the Fourth of July! [19:02] <stewiegryf> yay for Leaky Day! [19:02] *** wronskifeint has joined #lounge [19:02] <wronskifeint> soo... Dumbledore... [19:02] *** michpotter has joined #lounge [19:02] <wronskifeint> hillo [19:03] <michpotter> good morning everyone [19:03] <Expelliarmas> I really want to know what DD was ranting about as he drank the potion! It was such a disturbing passage. [19:03] <LJ> morning Mich [19:03] <michpotter> morning laurie [19:03] <pyrodude67> morning [19:03] <wronskifeint> hillo all [19:03] <wronskifeint> yeah same [19:03] <Aislinn> yes, we should definitely talk about that once we get going expel! smile [19:03] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:04] <Aislinn> how is everyone today/tonight/this morning? [19:04] <LJ> so, what's Thursday like Mich? [19:04] <LordValerius> good [19:04] <michpotter> fantastic, but with no voice [19:04] <michpotter> Thursday if fantastic laurie [19:04] <wronskifeint> nice [19:04] <LJ> woot, it's Thursday here now too [19:04] <michpotter> beautiful and sunny [19:05] <LJ> I love, and hate, time zones [19:05] <michpotter> i hate mine [19:05] <Expelliarmas> why no voice? [19:05] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge [19:05] *** muggle_madness has joined #lounge [19:05] <Aislinn> hey, g-bot! [19:06] *** wronskifeint has quit [Bye] [19:06] <michpotter> becaue of screaming at State of Origin game last night [19:06] <Aislinn> hi muggle-madness [19:06] <muggle_madness> hello all [19:06] *** secretkeepertoall has joined #lounge [19:06] <andythehouseelf> Happy Leaky Day to all who werent here the last I said it! biggrin [19:06] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi Aislinn - everyone! [19:06] *** Punky left #lounge [] [19:06] <LJ> Hi [19:07] *** secretkeepertoall has quit [Bye] [19:07] <muggle_madness> CHEERS TO THAT andythehouseelf [19:07] <andythehouseelf> smile [19:07] *** TheZoz has joined #lounge [19:08] <Aislinn> g-bot, look up at top of screen [19:08] <Aislinn> hi zoz! [19:08] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> k [19:08] <TheZoz> Hello! [19:09] <Aislinn> we'll be chatting about Dumbledore in just a few minutes [19:09] <TheZoz> I was not sure if there was a decorum, so I was waiting for others to speak, heh [19:09] <michpotter> I love(d) dumbledore [19:09] <Aislinn> chat away, but we'll start the real discussion at quarter past [19:09] <Aislinn> give people a chance to get here [19:10] <muggle_madness> alrighty [19:10] *** kadi has joined #lounge [19:10] <LJ> hey evile one [19:10] <TheZoz> Excellent - and I still love Dumbledore, as I have not gotten to the part that adds the passed tense yet... (but I know it happens) [19:10] <Aislinn> kadi! [19:10] <kadi> Hey Laurieloo [19:10] <LJ> what book are you on Zoz? [19:10] <kadi> Hey Aislinn smile [19:10] <TheZoz> Stone. I started with the movies. [19:11] <LJ> cool [19:11] <LJ> pity you were spoiled though [19:11] <TheZoz> I read most of Stone to my daughter, and am working on making the time to read the end and the other 5. /snicker [19:11] <Aislinn> you've got a lot of great story in front of you, zoz! [19:11] <LordValerius> wow, you just started [19:11] <TheZoz> Yeah, I am looking forward to it. [19:11] <muggle_madness> no doubt, i wish i had that much of harry potter left to read [19:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> testing [19:12] <TheZoz> I am sure it will change as I get into the books - but as it stands right now I am more enamoured with the setting than I am with the story. [19:12] <kadi> Hey GFAB! [19:12] <LJ> If you're not worried about being spoile Zoz, you should join the Reading Groups when we start Prisoner of Azkaban. [19:12] <LJ> *spoiled [19:13] <Aislinn> the first book is the most child geared, zoz [19:13] <Aislinn> they get more complex as the story progresses [19:13] <LordValerius> it does [19:13] <TheZoz> My wife has told me most of what happens in the series anyway (originally I was only passingly interested) but in the last month I have become [19:13] <TheZoz> rabid about it for some reason. [19:13] <muggle_madness> haha [19:14] <Aislinn> it really can capture the imagination biggrin [19:14] <LJ> we all are here [19:14] <TheZoz> How I found out what happened to DD was when my wife threw her book. [19:14] <LJ> haha [19:14] <LJ> a lot of people did that [19:14] <muggle_madness> haha [19:14] <muggle_madness> yeah, i just stared at the book for about half an hour [19:15] *** harrypotterfan123 has joined #lounge [19:15] <Expelliarmas> it wrecked my weekend [19:15] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in 5 minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:15] <TheZoz> I can see that - he is a very cool character. [19:15] *** magicmeg8 has joined #lounge [19:16] *** Estrella has joined #lounge [19:16] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:16] <Aislinn> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like “L.J got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. [19:16] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:16] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has quit [Bye] [19:17] <Aislinn> The transcript of this chat will be available shortly after we finish. It will be posted in our new Corner Booth Forum: http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html There is also a poll there where you can vote on next weeks Wize Wizard Chat: http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry874602 [19:17] <Aislinn> Albus Wulfric Percival Brian Dumbledore - described on his Chocolate Frog card this way: Considered by many the greatest wizard of modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon's blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel. [19:17] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge [19:18] <Aislinn> Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and tenpin bowling. [19:18] <Aislinn> Dumbledore is a fascinating character who is viewed as omniscient by some, odd by others, and deeply respected by the many who came to pay their last respects to him at his funeral. Let’s discuss this wise old wizard, and his role in the series. [19:18] <Aislinn> What do you view as his primary characteristics? [19:18] *** DarkSeraph has joined #lounge [19:18] <stewiegryf> I love ten pin bowling too! [19:18] <Aislinn> chat away, folks! [19:19] <andythehouseelf> (Have fun guys! I gotta sleep! Night) [19:19] <DarkSeraph> Muwahha. I actually remembered to come here. [19:19] <TheZoz> By primary characteristics, do you mean as a character - or his abilities as a wizard? [19:19] *** andythehouseelf left #lounge [] [19:19] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [19:19] <Aislinn> lets talk about his character first [19:19] *** Trozam has quit [Bye] [19:20] <Aislinn> then his abilities [19:20] <futureweasley> hi all [19:20] <Aislinn> sorry - lagging [19:20] <magicmeg8> He's definitely fair, Ais. [19:20] <Aislinn> hi future! [19:20] <futureweasley> dumbledore's character, eh? [19:20] <TheZoz> Character wise, I have honestly viewed him as sort of the narrator of the stories, if the narrator were to not do any voice-overs and actually participate... [19:20] <TheZoz> I mean, he always seems to be reading a couple pages ahead in the script. /grin [19:20] <DarkSeraph> Dumbeldore is it? [19:21] <Aislinn> He definitely acts as a main imparter of facts, zoz [19:21] <Expelliarmas> Dumbledore goes beyond the superficial when evaluating a person. He sees a lot more within others than they do themselves. Snape and Hagrid come to mind there. [19:21] <Aislinn> yes, darkseraph [19:21] <DarkSeraph> Ah, thanks. [19:21] <LordValerius> he's very understanding [19:21] <Aislinn> good point, expel [19:21] <futureweasley> Dumbledore is the ultimate secretkeeper [19:21] <TheZoz> Perhaps it is part of his wizardly portfolio, but it sometimes seems like JK sends him a copy of the book before she writes him. [19:21] <Aislinn> and is that a good thing, future? [19:22] *** becky920 has joined #lounge [19:22] <futureweasley> nope, I hate that about him [19:22] <stewiegryf> I've always seen Dumbledore as having very good foresight and always being about two steps ahead of everyone else [19:22] <Aislinn> hi, becky - we're talking about dumbledore [19:22] <futureweasley> I don't think DD's judgement is great when it comes to information and what to do with it [19:22] <Aislinn> so it sounds like some of you think that he is the all-seeing person he is sometimes hinted at being [19:22] <harrypotterfan123> i think he's definately fair, he's also I feel a little too willing to believe there's good in EVERYONE [19:22] <Aislinn> How does he know so much more than most people? [19:23] <becky920> But isn't there good in everyone? Somewhere? [19:23] <DarkSeraph> Maybe. I think he's a pretty good read of character though. [19:23] <futureweasley> he goes after the information [19:23] <Aislinn> I'd like to think so, becky [19:23] <Expelliarmas> He gives loyalty and seems to prize the return of loyalty above all else. Maybe it's his expectations of loyalty which blind him and led to his death? [19:23] <TheZoz> Granted my information is limited, but I would say that yes. Could be that he has a bit of mind-reading/character-judging magic abilities? [19:23] <Estrella> Legilemency [19:23] <Estrella> but also long years of expirence [19:23] <DarkSeraph> Maybe. But I think mostly it's just innate. [19:23] <Estrella> remember he is over 150 years old [19:23] <DarkSeraph> Yeah. Experince. [19:23] <Aislinn> you think he uses legilimency routinely estrella? [19:24] <Aislinn> that seems like eavesdropping somehow to me [19:24] <Estrella> When he thinks people are lieing [19:24] <futureweasley> his eyes are always boring into someone [19:24] <Estrella> Eaxtly [19:24] <DarkSeraph> I'd think that Dumbeldor ewould consider that a pretty nasty invasion of privacy though. So he'd limit the use of it. [19:24] <futureweasley> he's reading minds and assessing info constantly [19:24] <TheZoz> He also was there through the beginning of the timultuous times that Hogwart's faces (Tom when he was a student, through present) and he has a GREAT memory. [19:24] <DarkSeraph> Dumbeldore** [19:24] <Estrella> Harry always feels as if Dumbledore has rad his ming [19:24] <Estrella> mind [19:24] <Aislinn> and he seems too polite to routinely eavesdrop [19:24] <becky920> But Harry could tell when Snape was trying to break into his mind. Wouldn't he be able to tell if Dumbledore were? [19:24] <TheZoz> So he is possibly the most equipped to deal with the current crisis. [19:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Aislinn - I think you're right - he would see it as an invasion of privacy [19:25] <Aislinn> I wonder about that too, becky [19:25] <Aislinn> exactly gbot [19:25] <stewiegryf> I think DD uses Legilimency much more discerningly than Snape [19:25] <LordValerius> dumbledore is good enought at it, you can't tell [19:25] <DarkSeraph> I don't know. Is there a differnce between sublte Legilemency and outright? [19:25] <Estrella> He has been watching people for years- 0ver 50 year of teaching means he should be able to spot when people are being less than truthful [19:25] <becky920> I think he's more looking for signs of lying, like detectives do during an interrogation -- body language, for instance [19:25] <Estrella> Agreed Becky [19:25] <stewiegryf> only skimming the foremost thoughts and not trying to probe into someone's mind [19:25] <Estrella> the muggle way [19:25] <DarkSeraph> Exactly. [19:25] <harrypotterfan123> yeah [19:26] <Expelliarmas> Dumbledore sets great store by good manners. He corrects Riddle and reminds him to address him as sir, he corrects Harry's use of Snape. He doesn't apparate directly into Slughorn's home. [19:26] <DarkSeraph> I think he think in ways wizards normally wouldn't. The muggle way. [19:26] <Aislinn> I tend to think he gets his information from other sources, like portraits [19:26] <futureweasley> Professor Snape, Harry [19:26] <Estrella> I know some of my older teachers could always tell when I was fibbing [19:26] <futureweasley> Remus took that page out of DD's book [19:26] <DarkSeraph> Teachers have a lot of experince when it comes to that. [19:26] <becky920> Anyone think it's possible he's muggleborn? [19:26] <Aislinn> but knowing you're fibbing, and delving into your brain to find out the truth are 2 different things [19:26] <TheZoz> Agreed, Estrella - when you have heard them all, it is easy to remember one. [19:26] <DarkSeraph> I dunno. He's certainly one of the more open minded wizards when it comes to muggles. [19:26] <harrypotterfan123> thEstrrella: they just have experience and can dicern what's going on [19:27] <becky920> Jo said his family would be a profitable line of inquiry, anyway [19:27] <futureweasley> Gryffindor [19:27] <Expelliarmas> my mother was no legillimens, but she sure could sniff out a lie in a heartbeat! [19:27] <futureweasley> ? [19:27] <DarkSeraph> Indeed. I'd say his lingeage would be very fascinatig. [19:27] <LordValerius> yeah [19:27] <stewiegryf> Does anyone think that he has kids? [19:27] <LordValerius> no [19:27] <futureweasley> no [19:27] <DarkSeraph> I don't think so personally. [19:27] <becky920> If he were muggleborn, it would make sense that he had learned skills like reading body language [19:27] <LJ> no [19:27] <Aislinn> he knows details of what Harry has been doing, not just whether he is lying or not [19:27] <futureweasley> his students are his kids [19:28] <harrypotterfan123> possibly, probably not [19:28] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> no Stewie - I don't think [19:28] <DarkSeraph> Good point futureweasley. [19:28] <Expelliarmas> yes, but they might have been killed through Grindewald [19:28] <stewiegryf> I don't think he does either, but it was an interesting though I had the other day [19:28] <Aislinn> like when he knew what Ron and Harry haad seen in the Mirror of Erised [19:28] <TheZoz> He gets about 40 new children per year, I imagine.... heh... he strikes me as very fatherly with a genuine caring for the students. [19:28] <DarkSeraph> Blasted Gridewald. [19:28] <DarkSeraph> I wish we knew more. [19:28] <Aislinn> I agree zoz [19:28] <DarkSeraph> Grindewald** [19:28] <stewiegryf> good poin zoz [19:28] <futureweasley> we will, dark, don't worry [19:28] <muggle_madness> i agree TheZoz [19:29] <TheZoz> Futurew beat me to it though... heh [19:29] <becky920> I think he was there, invisible at the mirror -- remember, he said he didn't need a cloak to be invisible. I didn't see him as plucking that memory from their heads. [19:29] <TheZoz> Very true, Becky [19:29] <harrypotterfan123> i think we'll definately find out something about dumbledore that'll be important [19:29] <becky920> Besides, if he could do that... why go to all the trouble to interview people and get their memories? [19:29] <DarkSeraph> Exactly. [19:29] *** harrypotterfan123 has quit [Bye] [19:29] <DarkSeraph> He thinks outside the box. [19:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> exactly Beck [19:29] <DarkSeraph> In wizard terms anyway. [19:29] <Aislinn> So you think he can make himself invisible? What else do we think Dumbledore can do, magically, that sets him apart? [19:30] <DarkSeraph> Well, he's pretty impressively magical, that's for sure. [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> what about anamagus? [19:30] <TheZoz> I think, like Harry, he has a great deal of raw power - but unlike Harry, he has the experience to focus it. [19:30] <DarkSeraph> I don't know about powers per se. [19:30] <Aislinn> I've wondered about that gbot [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Is he one and what would he be? [19:30] *** CedrellaBlack has joined #lounge [19:30] <becky920> I think it's possible -- he did teach transfiguration, after all [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> phoenix maybe? [19:30] <Expelliarmas> Interviewing people to get their memories is not the same as legillemens. People can view an event and not realize some of the more important aspects. Dumbledore can view a memory and use it as if he was reviewing a video of an event. [19:30] <DarkSeraph> Well, he wans't listed was he? [19:30] <Aislinn> Being transfiguration teacher in the past, it makes sense that he would be an animagus [19:30] <DarkSeraph> Hermione might have said something. [19:30] <DarkSeraph> But who knows. [19:30] <LJ> I'm not sure he CAN make himself invisible. Not as the Cloak would do, he prob blends into the background. Maybe he doesn't have to use the spell (forgot what it's called), but I think that's what he meant [19:30] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Dark - I don't think DD had much regard for the rules of the ministry [19:31] <Estrella> Disillusionment L.J ? [19:31] <DarkSeraph> Disillusionment LJ? [19:31] <LJ> haha. yeah [19:31] <becky920> I had a friend once who thought he'd either been a demiguise hunter, or was part-demiguise. [19:31] <Aislinn> that is still invading someone's privacy, to me expelliarmas [19:31] <becky920> Explaining his ability to become invisible. [19:31] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Aren't they dark creatures, though, Becky? [19:31] <Aislinn> I don't think they are [19:32] <TheZoz> Perhaps we are looking at it all wrong, guys - perhaps he was not invisible, perhaps an undisclosed power of the office of headmaster is a vague knowledge of everything that happens in the walls. [19:32] <becky920> I don't think so. I think they're just rare -- they're the creatures from whose fur the invisibility cloaks are woven. [19:32] <Expelliarmas> If the person gives you the memory, is there an invansion? [19:32] <becky920> brb [19:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> No - don't think so Expel [19:32] <muggle_madness> not technically expel [19:32] <Aislinn> I think he gets information from the armour in the halls, the portraits on the walls, the ghosts - he has a lot of eyes around the school [19:32] <DarkSeraph> But legilemens itself is pretty invasive. [19:32] <TheZoz> Which would explain why he is always trying to get Harry to say what is on his mind - not only would it be the right thing - but maybe his info is sketchy [19:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes - good Aislinn [19:32] <Aislinn> but many times he knows things that people haven't told him, expel [19:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> they're all a bunch of gossips like the ghosts smile [19:33] <futureweasley> he does have his ways of finding things out...I don't think he needs to be "invisible" to get what he needs [19:33] <muggle_madness> hahaha [19:33] <Expelliarmas> Someone in the thread noted DD was not listed in registered animagi of this century and noted he likely became an animagi in the previous century. So he would not have been listed in the book Hermione read. [19:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Future - I think he uses a combination of methods [19:33] <muggle_madness> good point expel [19:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> the instruments in his office [19:33] <Aislinn> right, expel [19:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> paintings, ghosts, etc [19:33] <LordValerius> yeah, good point [19:33] <futureweasley> Me too...chocolate frog cards [19:33] <DarkSeraph> True expel. [19:34] <Aislinn> There are all those special instruments whirring and puffing around his office – what do they do, and will they help Harry in the next book? [19:34] *** pyrodude67 has quit [Bye] [19:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think they're divining instruments of sorts [19:34] <DarkSeraph> Who knows. Harry might not even visit Hogwarts. [19:34] <muggle_madness> i bet some of them will [19:34] <LJ> I think they'll help [19:34] <LJ> no idea what they are though [19:34] <TheZoz> Experiments he may have carried over from previous to becoming Headmaster, maybe? [19:34] <DarkSeraph> Lol. [19:34] <becky920> Good idea about him being in the previous century's list, Expelliarmus. [19:34] <muggle_madness> DD might leave all of the useful ones to harry, perhaps? [19:34] *** crits12 has joined #lounge [19:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> like when the snake came out in a puff of smoke and DD was enlightened [19:34] <Expelliarmas> Who inherits those silver instruments? I think they are dark detectors of some sort. [19:34] <TheZoz> No chemist will ever stop playing with things... [19:34] <futureweasley> did DD have a residence outside of hogwarts? [19:34] <DarkSeraph> They wern't in the previous Headmaster's office though. [19:35] <Aislinn> that scene was really interesting gbot [19:35] <futureweasley> like Snape and Spinner's end? [19:35] <Aislinn> I'd love to know what it really meant [19:35] *** kadi has quit [Bye] [19:35] <crits12> probally did [19:35] <LordValerius> yeah, he might leave harry some of the stuff in his will [19:35] <LJ> Well, DD could read them - wonder if Harry could learn? [19:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I see DD more as a monk or priest - he lives and works there at Hogwarts smile [19:35] <DarkSeraph> I don't know if Harry has the concentration for things like that. [19:35] <crits12> yes, but it must get lonely [19:35] <DarkSeraph> Nice guy, but not very.....patient. [19:35] <TheZoz> Instead of to Harry, perhaps he will leave them (and the instructions) to Minerva. [19:36] <Aislinn> What do we know of Dumbledore’s private life, or his family? Will this be important in the next book? [19:36] <crits12> maybe he'll go half and half [19:36] <becky920> Dumbledore is sort of a lonely guy, though, isn't he? Almost an island. [19:36] <CedrellaBlack> He must have had a home away from hogwarts because what about when he wasnt headmaster and even when he didnt work for the school [19:36] <DarkSeraph> I've been wonderring what McGonagal's position in the order is. [19:36] <futureweasley> cut out the middle man [19:36] <Expelliarmas> Harry concentrates when the need arises, and then becomes quite single-minded like his suspicions of Draco as a Death Eater. [19:36] <crits12> we know about alberforth [19:36] <DarkSeraph> Oh yeah. He's very isolated Becky. [19:36] <stewiegryf> I think that his brother will play a role in the next book [19:36] <DarkSeraph> JKR said he was as well. [19:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes crits - I think he's the barkeep at Hog's Head [19:36] <Aislinn> agreed, stewie [19:36] <crits12> i don't think he had much of a private life... [19:36] *** muggle_madness has quit [Bye] [19:36] <magicmeg8> Well, we really don't know much about his childhood. which is interesting. [19:37] <crits12> good idea ginny [19:37] <Aislinn> or a lot of his adulthood, even smile [19:37] <Expelliarmas> What if he left some of those contraptions to Hermione, she would figure out their usage. [19:37] <becky920> Then again, how much do we know about Gandalf before he's already Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White? [19:37] <DarkSeraph> We got to take a look at Riddle's childhood...maybe book seven will have DD's past? [19:37] <magicmeg8> LoL, True. [19:37] <crits12> what i find intresting is that alberforth couldn't read [19:37] <becky920> It's an archetype -- I don't know if we'll ever know the whole story. [19:37] <crits12> does this mean they wern't schooled? [19:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - true Beck [19:37] <TheZoz> Watch it be something crazy, where his brother is really him - and the one who was AK'd was his brother sacrificing himself for the greater good.. [19:37] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL Zoz [19:37] <magicmeg8> We don't even know where he was born. [19:37] <DarkSeraph> Nah. That's kinda hoakey. [19:38] <DarkSeraph> But it *is* the wise old wizard archetype to an extent. [19:38] <TheZoz> Yeah it would be... but they are all Whodunit stories. [19:38] <becky920> Zoz, I think I would send Jo hate mail if it turns out Aberforth is Dumbledore. No, really! [19:38] <Aislinn> you're sinking right into the obsessed conspiracy theories zoz - we have you hooked! biggrin [19:38] <Expelliarmas> Don't think DD would let anyone die for him [19:38] <DarkSeraph> exactly. [19:38] *** futureweasley has quit [Bye] [19:38] <Aislinn> I don't think so either, expel [19:38] <crits12> yep [19:38] <LJ> there's a thread on that somewhere [19:38] <becky920> But I do think Harry will need to seek Aberforth out and learn what he can [19:39] <LordValerius> yeah [19:39] <DarkSeraph> DD did a very courgaeous thing, keeping Draco from killing him.....or letting Snape kill him rather. And Snape himself was extremly brave as well. [19:39] <crits12> i had a theory that aberforth was RAB [19:39] <Aislinn> I do think that there may be information that Albus shared with aberforth that will be useful to Harry in the next book [19:39] *** Mullen has joined #lounge [19:39] <DarkSeraph> Pehaps. Abeforth could just be a funny little joke of course. [19:39] <crits12> i agree [19:39] *** michpotter has quit [Bye] [19:39] <Aislinn> depends on how you interpret the scene, dark [19:39] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I know that DD's full name has been examined before; has anyone examined the meaning of Aberforth? [19:40] <DarkSeraph> Of course. I was just saying that we could be reading too much into it. [19:40] <becky920> Nah, I think Aberforth will help Harry find Mundungus and that darn locket. [19:40] <Expelliarmas> as a bartender, Abelforth is privy to a lot of conversations; people speak to and around bartenders as if they really weren't there at all. [19:40] <becky920> And give him background on Dumbledore, too. [19:40] <DarkSeraph> But personally, I'd like to see Abeforth explain DD some. [19:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> exactly Expel [19:40] <Aislinn> good question, gbot! [19:40] <crits12> but why hadn't they had schooling? Alberforth couldn't read [19:40] <DarkSeraph> I agree Becky. [19:41] <Expelliarmas> Maybe Aberforth can make DD a little more human or approachable in death than he was in life. [19:41] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm wondering if, by examining the meaning of his name it might provide some clues [19:41] <magicmeg8> (I haven't looked at Aberforth, but I do know that Albus is connected to the latin word for white) [19:41] <DarkSeraph> Once I heard that particular theory I was hooked on it. The Mundugus has the locket thing from the Black house. [19:41] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - white wiz like Gandalf is how I took it [19:41] <DarkSeraph> Who knows of course. [19:41] *** Mullen left #lounge [] [19:42] <Expelliarmas> Maybe Aberforth had some reading disability? There's never been a discussion in the books of wizards with learning impediments, has there? [19:42] <LordValerius> i like the theory that Aberforth has an horcrux [19:42] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> We know he has a penchant for goats smile [19:42] <becky920> The lexicon doesn't have any name specific info for Aberforth, but suggests it could be connected to Edinburgh, at the mouth of the river forth. [19:42] <DarkSeraph> Where do they learn to read after all? [19:42] <DarkSeraph> From their parents I expect. [19:42] <crits12> yeah, that could be it expel [19:42] <stewiegryf> gotta go everyone! [19:42] <magicmeg8> The Lex. doesn't have anything on the meaning of Aberforth. [19:42] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> bye Stewie [19:42] <Aislinn> and they were kids back in the 1800s - so schooling methods would have been different then [19:42] <crits12> bye [19:42] *** stewiegryf left #lounge [] [19:42] <becky920> Maybe Grindelwald killed their parents before they could teach him to read. [19:42] <DarkSeraph> Wizards have magic training....I don't see them learning much arithmatic. [19:42] <Expelliarmas> Jo explains that kids are typically homeschooled before going to Hogwarts. [19:43] <DarkSeraph> Ah. [19:43] <DarkSeraph> I always wondered about that. [19:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> What about arithmancy Dark? Arithmetic is required for that I believe [19:43] <DarkSeraph> Lol. [19:43] <crits12> maybe their parents didn't get along [19:43] <becky920> Not to mention for potions work [19:43] <TheZoz> Babynames.com and Dictionary.com have nothing on the full name or the roots [19:43] <DarkSeraph> I was just using an example. [19:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I believe there are calculations involved [19:43] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol [19:43] <crits12> lol [19:43] <DarkSeraph> I'm sure they're taught rudimentary math of course. [19:44] <Expelliarmas> do schooling methods change all that much for wizards? [19:44] <crits12> why not to read then? [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I believe JK said that most from wizarding families are home schooled until they're called to Hogwarts [19:44] <TheZoz> Heh, I talked with another new-member about that very subect for the last couple days. [19:44] <DarkSeraph> Yes. That makes sense. [19:44] <TheZoz> What type of education Hogwart's is responsible for. [19:44] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> those from full wizarding families that is [19:45] <magicmeg8> I'm sure wizards were taught to read and write, yes, she did say that they were home schooled. also i'm sure they're taught math -- they'd need it at least for arithmancy [19:45] <becky920> I'm curious to see whether Fawkes is really gone. [19:45] <becky920> He was so connected to Dumbledore. [19:45] <crits12> i don't think so [19:45] <Expelliarmas> the other kids are clueless about their abilities; Colin Creevey never knew all the weird stuff he could do was magic [19:45] <Aislinn> What is the nature of the relationship between Albus and Fawkes? [19:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hogwarts is responsible for magical education - we don't hear of other courses except history and even that's history of magic [19:45] <DarkSeraph> Erugh. The phoneix...that part of HBP was moving. [19:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> That of companions, Aislinn [19:45] <becky920> Good question... not exactly master and pet! More like a team. [19:45] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> not pet and master [19:45] <TheZoz> I think like other wizards and their animals, it is the form of 'familiars' that JK has decided to use. [19:45] <becky920> lol gbot [19:45] <crits12> probally a friend [19:46] <DarkSeraph> DD himself really didn't have a confident did he? [19:46] <Aislinn> no, dark, he didn't [19:46] <crits12> a consult, to keep himself company [19:46] <DarkSeraph> confidant?** [19:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Although in CoS DD does describe Fawkes as a pet [19:46] <becky920> Not until Harry came along, really [19:46] <Aislinn> they do seem more companions then master and pet - I agree [19:46] <LordValerius> yeah [19:46] <Expelliarmas> Is Harry really a confidant, or does he have to start filling Harry in given what Harry has to do? [19:46] <DarkSeraph> Well, he talked about phoneixes making great pets...he didn't say anything about Fawkes bieng a pet. [19:46] <becky920> I wonder how they came to be together. I doubt you can get a phoenix at Eeylops. [19:47] <DarkSeraph> being* [19:47] <crits12> hagrid? [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> True Dark [19:47] <becky920> You think maybe Fawkes picked DD instead of the other way around? [19:47] <becky920> Good idea crits [19:47] <TheZoz> Most likely Beck. [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I guess it's an assumption some of us have made [19:47] <DarkSeraph> Maybe Fawkes is a family companion? [19:47] <Aislinn> that's a good question, becky [19:47] <DarkSeraph> Passed down....like Scabbers...but not qutie so evil. [19:47] <TheZoz> It seems that in JK's world, the people get picked by MANY things. [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> There was talk in RG about Fawkes being in the family [19:47] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> a family pet [19:48] <crits12> no i doubt it [19:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> or companion [19:48] <Aislinn> Phoenixes are said to be hard to domesticate, so it is interesting to speculate how they ended up with each other [19:48] <DarkSeraph> We don't know how long phonexes live after all. [19:48] <DarkSeraph> Are they eternal? [19:48] <TheZoz> Well, if a family domesticates one, it will be around for a long time... heh [19:48] <crits12> he seemed connected to dumbledore not a family at large [19:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and what will happen to Fawkes now - will he go into the wild [19:48] <Aislinn> I think he will help Harry in some way [19:48] <LJ> I think he;ll help Harry [19:48] <crits12> he may die of sorrow... they must die someway [19:48] <DarkSeraph> Maybe. Maybe he just went away? [19:48] <DarkSeraph> Or died yeah. [19:49] <Expelliarmas> the phoenix is not immortal according to Fantastic Beasts [19:49] <TheZoz> He may end up with Snape - if it turns out that Snape is a good guy [19:49] <DarkSeraph> Maybe he went to Abeforth? [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hmm - I'm thinking he still has a part to play in the protection of Harry [19:49] <Aislinn> can't see him with Snape at all! [19:49] <DarkSeraph> He's the last tangible connection he has to DD after all. [19:49] <magicmeg8> Me either, Ais. [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Actually, I can Aislinn [19:49] <TheZoz> Being a creature of death/rebirth - if DD and Snape planned his death... [19:49] <crits12> perhaps he [19:49] <Expelliarmas> No way he ends up with Snape [19:49] <magicmeg8> Really Ginny? [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yep [19:49] <Aislinn> cuz even if he's loyal, he's not a good guy [19:49] <TheZoz> Perhaps Fawkes can sense that and feels some kind of kinship. [19:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm not exactly sure why, but... [19:50] <magicmeg8> Hmm. true. [19:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> perhaps it will begin to show us another side to Snape [19:50] <DarkSeraph> Maybe. [19:50] <magicmeg8> That's a good point about the death/rebirth, ZoZ [19:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> on the assumption that it is a possibility [19:50] <crits12> perhaps [19:50] <TheZoz> I am one of the people who think DD had Snape kill him for some unforseen plan [19:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Zoz - I'm with you [19:50] <TheZoz> And while not likely, Fawkes might know about it. [19:50] <DarkSeraph> Hmm...well, it was either let Snape die or to have DD kick it himself. [19:50] <Aislinn> not me - I don't think he would ask anyone to deliberately rip their soul [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I also think that's why they were arguing at the edge of the forest when Hagrid saw them [19:51] <DarkSeraph> I think he did it to save both Draco and Snape [19:51] *** Mokey has joined #lounge [19:51] <TheZoz> And what better way to prove to the order he is really good than if Fawkes backs Snape. [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Snape was given orders to kill him and he was protesting [19:51] <crits12> if there were a plan wouldn't the sorting hat know... it sits in DD"s office the whole year [19:51] <Aislinn> the portraits would be a better source of info, I think [19:51] <TheZoz> Since Fawkes is all about loyalty and what not. [19:51] <DarkSeraph> Twas why Snape was so angry with harry as he fled. Harry called him a coward when he just killed the one person who really trusted him. [19:51] <Expelliarmas> If DD asked Snape to kill him if it came to it, is that murder or an assisted suicide? [19:51] <DarkSeraph> Imo* [19:51] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think DD's reasons for wanting to be killed are multi-layered [19:51] <Mokey> well not that I have an opinion on "the plan" but noone's asked the sortinig hat [19:52] *** x0ginnyW0x has joined #lounge [19:52] <Aislinn> either one is quite a departure from everything we've learned about dumbledore up until now, expel [19:52] <x0ginnyW0x> Hi guys [19:52] <DarkSeraph> The sorting hat always *does* know a lot.....for a hat. [19:52] <LJ> hi [19:52] <crits12> hat's my theory mokey [19:52] <Aislinn> hi ginny! [19:52] <x0ginnyW0x> Hi Ais and LJ! [19:52] *** becky920 has quit [Bye] [19:52] <Aislinn> How did Dumbledore become so wise? Did he have a mentor as well? [19:52] <crits12> hi ginny [19:52] *** becky920 has joined #lounge [19:52] <x0ginnyW0x> Do we only have a couple minutes left? [19:52] <Mokey> hi ginny [19:53] <Aislinn> another hour [19:53] <crits12> just years of experience [19:53] <x0ginnyW0x> Oh great! [19:53] <DarkSeraph> I think it's mostly just experince Ais. [19:53] <becky920> Sorry about that -- our power flickered and I couldn't get back into the room [19:53] <Aislinn> welcome back, becky [19:53] *** wronskifeint has joined #lounge [19:53] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think DD is highly intelligent Ais and he acquired his wisdom from learning from his mistakes [19:53] *** accio_lily has joined #lounge [19:53] <magicmeg8> Well, according to JKR, Dumbledore was self-taught, but his knowledge is just amazing -- he couldn't have done it all himself. [19:53] *** crits12 has quit [Bye] [19:53] <Mokey> hi becky! [19:53] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> to simplify it [19:53] <magicmeg8> Maybe one of his parents was his mentor [19:53] <LJ> Hey Lily [19:53] <DarkSeraph> Maybe. [19:53] <x0ginnyW0x> Hi Lily! [19:54] *** wronskifeint has quit [Bye] [19:54] <accio_lily> Hey smile [19:54] <DarkSeraph> I'm going with the definite self-taught route. [19:54] <becky920> hi Mokey! [19:54] <Expelliarmas> that's something maybe Aberforth could shed light on? [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> to a point Dark, I think you're right [19:54] <becky920> Maybe he had a great tutor [19:54] <DarkSeraph> Experince and wisdom can be a lot more important than intelligence sometiems. [19:54] *** crits12 has joined #lounge [19:54] <TheZoz> Something I can tell you from being a teacher myself - is that there is NO better way to learn than to teach... and DD has been teaching for a while. [19:54] <Aislinn> very true, zoz [19:54] <x0ginnyW0x> Great point Zoz [19:54] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think he had no choice but to be self taught because there was no other wizard of his calibre [19:54] <DarkSeraph> Indeed. [19:55] <TheZoz> If you care about your students, you make sure what you are saying is correct (because you don't want to be the oaf who led them astray) [19:55] <Aislinn> I wonder who that tutor would be becky [19:55] <x0ginnyW0x> Right GFAB [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but wouldn't it be interesting to learn that Gridewald was actually one of his mentors [19:55] <TheZoz> So over the years, his immense knowledge could be a result of that. [19:55] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Sort of like a Saruman-Gandalf type thingy [19:55] <TheZoz> Good point! [19:55] <Expelliarmas> Grindewald a tutor to DD who then goes awfully bad? [19:55] <becky920> Um... Nicolas Flamel? [19:55] <Mokey> I think that's a really good point Zoz [19:55] <LJ> I think Flamel taught him a lot [19:55] <x0ginnyW0x> I read a fan fic with that plot line in it GFAB [19:55] <TheZoz> That would actually be pretty cool. [19:56] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes LJ - I think he might have learned a lot from Flamel [19:56] <TheZoz> Thank you, Mokey [19:56] <Aislinn> I wonder if JKR is suggesting that Flamel is/was a wizard? [19:56] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL ginny [19:56] <DarkSeraph> As I said before. Blasted Grindewald. We just don't know enough. [19:56] <magicmeg8> Ooh, interesting point, Expel [19:56] <crits12> sorry, bad connection [19:56] <crits12> maybe flammel? [19:56] *** crits12 has quit [Bye] [19:56] *** crits12 has joined #lounge [19:56] <Expelliarmas> Flamel as a tutor would be amazing given he was about 500 years old. Would he be more of an oracle than a mentor? [19:56] <accio_lily> DD is also immensely old - there's room for a few mentor/teacher figures there [19:56] *** CedrellaBlack has quit [Bye] [19:56] <magicmeg8> Flamel would be a good choice as well [19:56] <x0ginnyW0x> 150 years is a long time [19:56] <crits12> testing to make sure this is working,, [19:56] <DarkSeraph> Indeed. [19:56] <TheZoz> You all think DD has been sampling Flamel's concoctions? Would explain his age... [19:56] <x0ginnyW0x> Its working crits [19:56] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> No Zoz [19:57] <DarkSeraph> But there are wizards who are older. [19:57] <DarkSeraph> Like the testing person. [19:57] <Mokey> I think wizards just age a little slower than muggles [19:57] <crits12> ok, thanks... it wasn't a few seconds ago [19:57] <x0ginnyW0x> No Zoz [19:57] <DarkSeraph> From the O.W.L [19:57] <becky920> No, I think he learned a lot from Flamel, but then "outgrew" him [19:57] <accio_lily> haha, I think that's he's just old because he is such a powerful wizard [19:57] <DarkSeraph> She/He had tested DD when *he* was in school. [19:57] <DarkSeraph> And they don't have PS. [19:57] <x0ginnyW0x> I think he's just old because hes old [19:57] <crits12> perhaps his students taught him in a way [19:57] <TheZoz> Just thought I would throw that out there. smile [19:57] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think DD has a highly developed--er--sense of propriety, and anything that would smack of immortality would be against his beliefs [19:58] <DarkSeraph> Yeah. [19:58] <crits12> true [19:58] <becky920> Or maybe he saw how Flamel handled it and decided it wasn't for him. [19:58] <x0ginnyW0x> mmm yeah I see that [19:58] <Expelliarmas> He likely learned a lot from his students, I know I do. [19:58] <Aislinn> which is why I don't think he would ask anyone to kill him [19:58] <Aislinn> gbot [19:58] *** Segonku has joined #lounge [19:58] <x0ginnyW0x> Ooh I agre Aislinn [19:58] <x0ginnyW0x> *agree [19:58] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Expel - he's the type to glean learning from everyone he encounters [19:58] <TheZoz> Perhaps his foresight told him there was something that would not happen if he was around - and it needed to come to pass. [19:58] <LordValerius> maybe [19:59] <accio_lily> I think he would have done whatever needed to be done. He didn't need to be immortal, but if the time came he many have needed to have someone kill him [19:59] <TheZoz> Or perhaps the liquid he drank was not only weaking his body, but also his character? [19:59] <becky920> Plot wise, he had to go. The hero always goes on alone. But it still hurts! [19:59] <DarkSeraph> I don't know. Would he really let one of his students or colleagues die because of him? [19:59] <magicmeg8> He does seem to know a bit about the furture, ZoZ [19:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes Zoz - and I think he ordered Snape to do it to protect Draco's um 'innocense' [19:59] <Expelliarmas> If he saw the war as something of a chess match, where sacrifices are necessary, then I do think he would put himself in harm's way and ask for help to get it done. [19:59] <crits12> like ron [19:59] <x0ginnyW0x> I just had a thought about the possibility that Grindewald was DD's mentor. It would parelell with the DD/Tom Riddle connection wouldn't it? [19:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Good parallel Expel!!! [19:59] <x0ginnyW0x> Because DD was Tom's teacher [19:59] <DarkSeraph> But DD didn't turn evil. [19:59] <magicmeg8> True. [19:59] <Mokey> I think he did put himself in harm's way, and that's a good point, he keeps telling Harry how much more valuable Harry is than him [19:59] <x0ginnyW0x> No but there was the opposing sides thing [19:59] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> excellent and we see chess as being important from Book 1 - the strategy that is [19:59] <Mokey> so it is like a chess match [19:59] <TheZoz> DD could have been the break in the cycle to allow Harry to end it. [19:59] <accio_lily> Yeah, that's a good point (Tom turned evile) [19:59] <DarkSeraph> True. [20:00] <Mokey> but I doubt he'd ask anyone to commit murder [20:00] <accio_lily> the student branched away from their mentor [20:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> So perhaps... maybe there was a greater significance to the chess match in Book 1 [20:00] <x0ginnyW0x> Right Lils [20:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> foreshadowing? [20:00] <crits12> probally [20:00] <magicmeg8> Ha. good thinking, GFAB [20:00] <x0ginnyW0x> I think that chess match is extremely signifigant [20:00] <TheZoz> Would not put it passed JK, GInny. [20:00] <becky920> I have always thought it foreshadows something. Hopefully not Ron! [20:00] <Aislinn> Speaking of his sense of propriety that was mentioned, Dumbledore seems to have a certain disregard for the rules of the wizarding world. Is this a fault? [20:01] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes - me too Beck [20:01] <x0ginnyW0x> I think there are major hints dropped during that scene [20:01] <DarkSeraph> Hmm. This post has been edited by Aislinn: Jul 5 2006, 08:17 PM |
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