Www Transcript For 07/18/07, The Rules of the Wizarding World |
 Jul 18 2007, 08:33 PM
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Chief Cat Herder  Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!    |
Facilitators: Mr. McGonagall, Aislinn, Prongs Patronus
[18:57] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [18:57] *** Snuffles changed the topic to: The Rules of the Wizarding World (Aislinn) [18:58] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [18:58] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [18:59] *** NYBookworm has quit [Bye] [18:59] <ProngsPatronus> hmmm--no one shows up as in here... [18:59] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [18:59] <Aislinn> you don't see names on the right? [18:59] *** jaimedanser has joined #lounge [18:59] <ProngsPatronus> no, I don't [18:59] <Aislinn> hi jaimedanser [19:00] <jaimedanser> hi [19:00] <Aislinn> try typing /reconnect, prongs [19:00] *** ProngsPatronus has quit [Bye] [19:00] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:00] <ProngsPatronus> still no names on the right [19:00] <Aislinn> did you go into the old room or the new? [19:01] *** huebbe has joined #lounge [19:01] <ProngsPatronus> the old room [19:01] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [19:01] <jaimedanser> Hi huebbe [19:01] *** mollywobbles23 has joined #lounge [19:01] <huebbe> hello all! [19:01] <mollywobbles23> yay! [19:01] <Aislinn> hi everyone! [19:01] <huebbe> haven't been here in a while [19:01] <MafaldaWeasley> hi guys!!!!!!!! [19:01] <Aislinn> last chat before the book is released! [19:02] <Aislinn> how exciting is this??? [19:02] <MafaldaWeasley> holy mother.. two more days!!!!! [19:02] <huebbe> wow, I can't believe it's finally here [19:02] <jaimedanser> only 2 days!!!! [19:02] <jaimedanser> =D [19:02] <Aislinn> it is hard to believe [19:02] <mollywobbles23> Has anyone else been randomly bursting into tears? [19:02] <DorisTLC> I'm almost giddy! [19:02] <jaimedanser> I've been waiting 7 years.... [19:02] <huebbe> he he he [19:02] <jaimedanser> and now it's ALMOST here [19:02] <ProngsPatronus> yes--the Last Chat of Unknowing [19:02] <jaimedanser> molly-yes [19:02] <jaimedanser> I have.... [19:02] <Aislinn> I've been listening to the audio books, mollywobbles23, and they are getting to me even more than usual [19:03] <huebbe> what will we wait to read when this is all over? [19:03] <MafaldaWeasley> ow, last chat.. snif, but I've already been sorted into one of the reading groups [19:03] <jaimedanser> lol, yeah [19:03] *** filliamhmuffman has joined #lounge [19:03] <jaimedanser> Me too, Mafalda! [19:03] <Aislinn> hi filliamhmuffman [19:03] <jaimedanser> =D =D [19:03] <huebbe> which are you? [19:03] <mollywobbles23> And then turn around and laugh like a moron? I'm so happy my family are fans, otherwise they'd think I've gone around the bend. [19:03] *** ProngsPatronus has quit [Bye] [19:03] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:03] <jaimedanser> molly-yea, my family are fans, too [19:03] <MafaldaWeasley> uuu, General. it's very nice there, [19:04] *** ProngsPatronus left #lounge [] [19:04] <jaimedanser> but I think I've been driving them crazy anyway [19:04] <jaimedanser> I'm the biggest fan, I think... [19:04] <MafaldaWeasley> really Jaime? Nice! [19:04] <jaimedanser> =D [19:04] <mollywobbles23> How many times has everyone seen OOTP? I saw it for the fourth time today and seeing it again tomorrow. [19:04] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [19:04] <mollywobbles23> Jane! [19:04] <jaimedanser> molly-gosh, I've only seen it once [19:04] <Aislinn> I've only seen it once so far, but will definitely be going back [19:04] <JaneMarple9> hello for a little while! [19:04] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:04] <jaimedanser> but I saw it in IMAX and it was AMAZING [19:04] <mollywobbles23> I know, it's crazy [19:05] <huebbe> hi Jane [19:05] <Aislinn> hi jane [19:05] <jaimedanser> hi jane [19:05] <JaneMarple9> (((((Mollywobbles))))) [19:05] <MafaldaWeasley> Molly, I'm not that lucky, I was just spoiled by my brother and he's laughing at me. But it's okay, I don't care [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> there we go! [19:05] <MafaldaWeasley> hey Jane! [19:05] <DorisTLC> IMAX is amazing! I loved it [19:05] <mollywobbles23> it's not at the IMAX in my town yet [19:05] <jaimedanser> yea, the whole time, I was thinking "I can't imagine not seeing this in IMAX" [19:05] <huebbe> I saw the 3D IMAX, the prophecy room was WOW [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> lol--we have to drive the best part of an hour just to get to a theater [19:05] <jaimedanser> 3D battle scene...is...WOW [19:05] *** the_heir_of_ravenclaw has joined #lounge [19:06] <huebbe> lol [19:06] <mollywobbles23> they didn't get GOF until spring (or something. I know I saw a billboard for it on my way to my nephews' baseball game) [19:06] <huebbe> agreed jaimie [19:06] *** fenixfelicis has joined #lounge [19:06] <fenixfelicis> yhi [19:06] <Aislinn> hi folks [19:06] <huebbe> hi all! [19:06] <DorisTLC> The apparating death eaters is a very cool effect in 3D [19:06] *** Aquamarine has joined #lounge [19:06] <jaimedanser> so............what's everyone doing for the release friday night? [19:06] <huebbe> agreed! [19:06] <MafaldaWeasley> hello everybody who came in! [19:06] <Aquamarine> Hello all! [19:06] <fenixfelicis> i want to see it imax so badly! [19:06] <DorisTLC> Oooo - Borders Party! WOOT - Then readying all night [19:06] <huebbe> Hi! [19:06] <JaneMarple9> nothing at all smile [19:07] <mollywobbles23> It's my favorite one. Instead of counting sheep last night, I counted canon moments in the movie. I got to 18 before Harry even had detention. And that wasn't counting canon props like The Quibbler or Neville's plant. [19:07] <jaimedanser> fenix-it's worth it! Keep trying! [19:07] <huebbe> sleeping..... [19:07] <JaneMarple9> eparing for the next day! [19:07] <fenixfelicis> i'm going to be at b&n. i'm going to participate in the trivia contest. [19:07] <huebbe> yes Jane [19:07] <Aquamarine> hey... I'm a little worried to be chatting today: this chat is a complete NO SPOILER zone, right? [19:07] <MafaldaWeasley> friday.. err, I hope reading my book haha [19:07] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:07] <jaimedanser> ooooooo...yea, same question as Aqua [19:07] <ProngsPatronus> yes, no spoilers here [19:07] <jaimedanser> good =D [19:07] <huebbe> hi Mr. Mc [19:07] <fenixfelicis> jaimedanser maybe i will have time after dh to go this weekend [19:07] <ProngsPatronus> we are working hard to make the chat safe [19:07] <MrMcGonagall> Hola! [19:07] <Aquamarine> thank goodness [19:07] <MafaldaWeasley> NO SpOILER Aqua!! squeee! [19:07] <mollywobbles23> I can't imagine any Leaky people doing that. [19:07] <Aquamarine> i know! [19:08] <jaimedanser> molly-me either [19:08] <MafaldaWeasley> hey MrM! [19:08] <huebbe> how's the world? [19:08] <fenixfelicis> how can you made the chat safe? it is so fast. [19:08] <fenixfelicis> i mean make [19:08] <JaneMarple9> we use magic smile [19:08] <huebbe> and ermm.....food? :-) [19:08] <jaimedanser> well, I'm just trusting everyone to be fans on here [19:08] <huebbe> lol [19:08] <ProngsPatronus> lol--we have our wands at the ready, fenix [19:08] <jaimedanser> and not want anything spoiled [19:08] <MafaldaWeasley> My part of the world is nice. We are having the Pan American games biggrin [19:08] <fenixfelicis> ok just as long is it is fail safe [19:08] <mollywobbles23> I've been spoiled, but I'm telling myself they were fake. I was attacked on my livejourna f-list. [19:09] <jaimedanser> gosh, molly...that stinks [19:09] <fenixfelicis> mollywobbles i hope it was fake [19:09] <MrMcGonagall> Spoilers are evil. [19:09] <mollywobbles23> yeah, it was pretty dumb, though. [19:09] <Aislinn> it is so disgusting that some people think it is fun to spoil other people [19:09] <huebbe> agreed [19:09] <jaimedanser> Yes, spoilers are evil [19:09] <ProngsPatronus> probably are fake, molly [19:09] <mollywobbles23> thinking back [19:09] <fenixfelicis> spoilers need to get a life [19:09] <MafaldaWeasley> yeah Molly. I've just been spiled myself...but to be honest I don't care, cause for me the important is not what happened but how it happened [19:09] <jaimedanser> I just wrote a really angry journal entry about people who post spoilers [19:09] <jaimedanser> lol [19:09] <Aislinn> I'm not believing anything until I read it in the book [19:09] <mollywobbles23> I'm still avoiding my f-list now, though. [19:09] <MrMcGonagall> The CB mods definitely have their wands at the ready. [19:09] <Aislinn> you're right, fenix [19:09] <MrMcGonagall> Me too, Aislinn [19:09] <mollywobbles23> me neither, Aislinn [19:10] <fenixfelicis> i'm avoiding everything. this is the only site i can go to. i'm so glad i have it or i would be going crazy!! [19:10] <Aislinn> some sick people just think it is funny to wind us all up [19:10] <jaimedanser> I'm only believing anything Jo says herself [19:10] <jaimedanser> and that I actually hear her say in an interview [19:10] <huebbe> as you should [19:10] <ProngsPatronus> a safe thing to do, jaime [19:10] <Aislinn> yes me too - I trust Leaky, but I'm not venturing anywhere else on the web except jo's site [19:10] <fenixfelicis> how do you guys change your font color? [19:10] <Aislinn> she updated her diary today, asking all fans to not believe the misinformation that is out there [19:10] <mollywobbles23> My dad is such a dork at the moment. He's the one who told me that Jo had updated her Diary today. LOL. He's been visiting Leakky the past couple of weeks. [19:11] <jaimedanser> urgh, well, I have to check my e-mail [19:11] <jaimedanser> which means I have to go to Yahoo's homepage [19:11] <Aislinn> did you click on the hyperlink or the grey button to join, fenix? [19:11] <jaimedanser> and they've been posting some spoiler news stories... [19:11] <Aislinn> ugh [19:11] <Aislinn> my email would wait [19:11] <jaimedanser> I haven't clicked on any, though [19:11] <fenixfelicis> ha! molly my stepdad has been doing the same thing. is your dad a fan? [19:11] <mollywobbles23> such a huge one [19:11] <ProngsPatronus> yahoo has an excellent spam protector [19:11] <jaimedanser> Actually, I've now trained myself to just not look at their news thing [19:11] <MrMcGonagall> What really disappoints me is the way the legitimate media has been treating spoilers. I would think they'd know better. [19:12] <MafaldaWeasley> what I dislike is that the Press is hadling it very bad. They keep advertising those spoilers like a reward, you know? giving them attention and all [19:12] <mollywobbles23> he and my mom went to see the movie on Wed. they wouldn't wait for me. I went on Friday [19:12] <mollywobbles23> lol [19:12] <MafaldaWeasley> haha yes, MrM [19:12] <jaimedanser> MrMcgonagall-I SO agree [19:12] <mollywobbles23> He reread OOTP in three days [19:12] *** mdbennett has joined #lounge [19:12] <ProngsPatronus> Cnn reports that there are some, but not what they say [19:12] <Aislinn> I agree, Mr M - it's not very responsible journalism to report the content of the spoiler [19:12] <fenixfelicis> umm....aislinn i think that i clicked on the grey button [19:12] <mollywobbles23> It was my dad's idea to see it again today. It was his third time seeing it. [19:13] <Aislinn> look down to the right of where you are typing, fenix - if there are << there, or >>, click on them, and you can pick another color [19:13] <ProngsPatronus> cool dad, molly [19:13] <fenixfelicis> ya i know, the spoilers just want the attention and the media is giving it to them! [19:13] <jaimedanser> fenix-EXACTLY [19:13] <mollywobbles23> yep [19:13] <jaimedanser> ugh, I just want to hit those people over the head with a copy of DH [19:13] <Aislinn> which is so sad [19:13] <MrMcGonagall> I got very nervous this morning when the Today Show was doing a segment on spoilers. [19:13] <jaimedanser> see how they like us now......... [19:13] <fenixfelicis> no aislinn there are no >>. oh well. no big deal i guess. [19:13] <mollywobbles23> I'm happy AOL hasn't been putting anything up...I'm going to close the welcome window anyway, though [19:13] <ProngsPatronus> yahoo news is printing the name of the websites, but not the content [19:14] <Aislinn> I got interviewed for our local paper about how I am avoiding spoilers [19:14] <jaimedanser> Prongs-Oh, really? [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> too cool! [19:14] <jaimedanser> well, see, I'm not clickin g on any, so, I wouldn't know [19:14] <MafaldaWeasley> Nice Aislinn! [19:14] <Aislinn> the article is supposed to be in the paper tomorrow, but I'm afraid to read it until after the release - LOL [19:14] <jaimedanser> *clicking [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> yes--so far [19:14] <huebbe> sorry all, must go...just wanted to poke my head in for a moment. I'm off to go do secret stuff! :-) [19:14] <Aislinn> bye huebbe [19:14] <MrMcGonagall> Bye, huebbe! [19:14] <jaimedanser> aw, bye Huebbe [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> bye, huebbe [19:14] <MafaldaWeasley> bye huebbe [19:14] <fenixfelicis> ya i noticed that the local paper which never has anything about hp all of a sudden has an article every day! [19:14] <huebbe> bye! see you all in 2 days!!!!! WEEEEEEEE [19:14] <MrMcGonagall> This should be a great chat tonight. I love the topic. [19:15] <fenixfelicis> oooo secret stuff [19:15] <ProngsPatronus> :-) [19:15] <jaimedanser> fenix-yeah, I hate that [19:15] <jaimedanser> People are like all of the suddne Potter crazy around release dates [19:15] <jaimedanser> *sudden [19:15] <fenixfelicis> jaimedanser i wonder if it will all just go away right after the release or if it will continue [19:15] <MrMcGonagall> I love how ignorant some of the talking heads on TV sound when they try to talk Potter. [19:15] <mollywobbles23> me too MrM [19:15] <jaimedanser> fenix-yea, I've wondered that, too [19:16] <MrMcGonagall> Meredith Vieira's interview with Jo should be hysterical. [19:16] <jaimedanser> MrM-haha, yeah, it's fun to listen to [19:16] <ProngsPatronus> !botsnack [19:16] * Snuffles munches on a yummy treat [19:16] <mollywobbles23> oooh...OOTP preview on TV. "The best film of the summer" No duh. [19:16] <fenixfelicis> who is meredith vieira? [19:16] *** Joyhawk2121 has joined #lounge [19:16] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon. [19:16] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [19:17] <Aislinn> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:17] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:17] <Aislinn> Spoilers will result in immediate removal from the chat, and you will not be able to return [19:17] <Aislinn> Thanks for your help and on with the chat! [19:17] <MrMcGonagall> Welcome to the last Wize Wizard Chat before the release of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows! Tonight, we will be discussing the "Rules" of the Potterverse from canon examples and interviews with JKR. [19:18] <MrMcGonagall> The Potter Universe is dominated by magic. JKR said, "I spent a lot of time inventing the rules for the magical world so that I knew the limits of magic. Then I had to invent the different ways wizards could accomplish certain things." [19:18] <MrMcGonagall> "The five years I spent on HP and the Philosopher's Stone were spent constructing The Rules. I had to lay down all my parameters. The most important thing to decide when you're creating a fantasy world is what the characters CAN'T do." What do you think of the idea of limited magic? What limits would you put on [19:18] <jaimedanser> well, I think it makes a lot of sense to limit what magic can do [19:18] <mollywobbles23> well, you can't bring the dead back to life, except in zombie form like Inferi [19:18] <fenixfelicis> limited magic makes it more believable and easier to follow [19:18] <JaneMarple9> no unforgiveable curses [19:18] <jaimedanser> otherwise deaths wouldn't mean much [19:19] <jaimedanser> and yea, I agree with fenix...it makes her world a lot more believable [19:19] *** Joyhawk2121 has quit [Bye] [19:19] <MrMcGonagall> I think magic has to operate according to certain principles. It can't simply do anything. [19:19] <mollywobbles23> also, I don't think magic can make someone suddenly brilliant with one spell or something. [19:19] <jaimedanser> mollywobbles--haha, yeah [19:19] <fenixfelicis> but then it is magic so really there will always be questions [19:19] <jaimedanser> that would seem kind of stupid [19:20] <NYBookworm> If anyone could do anything with no limits that 's a boring story [19:20] <JaneMarple9> take care all [19:20] <fenixfelicis> like i've noticed from these extremely detailed threads in the lounge [19:20] <Aislinn> I agree with that, Mr M [19:20] <mollywobbles23> exactly, NYB [19:20] <MrMcGonagall> It's a little like physics or chemistry. [19:20] <jaimedanser> I don't think ther would be any emotion in a world with unlimited magic [19:20] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [19:20] <jaimedanser> cause everything could be fixed... [19:20] <Aislinn> strructure gives meaning [19:20] <mollywobbles23> Didn't Jo say that if they can do anything, there wouldn't be any conflict? [19:20] <jaimedanser> yea [19:20] <jaimedanser> I remember that interview [19:21] <MrMcGonagall> JKR writes of the Potterverse: "I loathe books that have inconsistencies and leave questions unanswered. Loopholes bug the h**l out of me ... so I try to be meticulous and make sure that everything operates according to laws, however odd, so that everyone understands exactly how and why." Do you think the books have plot loopholes? What are they, and why do you consider them loopholes? [19:21] <mollywobbles23> I can't think of any. [19:21] <Aislinn> i think she has done a good job of trying to tie them up [19:21] <filliamhmuffman> one loophole would be, where do things come from when they are conjured? [19:22] <jaimedanser> yea, she's done a great job [19:22] <MafaldaWeasley> we will know that after the last one hehe [19:22] <fenixfelicis> why didnt dd kill voldy when he had the chance? [19:22] <jaimedanser> filliam-oh, yeah, I have wondered that [19:22] <Aislinn> I have seen people say that they don't know why the OotP didn't use side-along apparation when they picked up Harry in OotP [19:22] <MrMcGonagall> Honestly, I do think there are things that are a little contrived at times. Even Jo has admitted that there are some slight inconsistencies. [19:22] <fenixfelicis> well, i guess dd wouldnt kill [19:22] <MrMcGonagall> Things like Harry recovering the Marauder's Map. [19:22] <MrMcGonagall> Jo has sometimes had some 'splainin' to do. [19:23] <jaimedanser> well, yea, Jo has said that a lot of her fans know the rules of her world better than she does [19:23] <jaimedanser> cause we read them more [19:23] <mollywobbles23> I don't think anything qualifies as a plot hole though. [19:23] <ProngsPatronus> inconsistencies , I think, aren't quite the same as plot holes [19:23] <Aislinn> that didn't seem like a big thing though Mr M [19:23] <jaimedanser> Prongs-no, they aren't [19:23] <MrMcGonagall> No, there aren't plot holes you could drive a truck through. [19:24] <jaimedanser> I really think Jo has been good about not leaving any plot holes that Harry could fall into [19:24] <filliamhmuffman> oh whoops, got to go, thanks all [19:24] <mollywobbles23> lol [19:24] *** filliamhmuffman has quit [Bye] [19:24] <MafaldaWeasley> mm I don't think we can actually judge plot holes until we have read the last one [19:24] <fenixfelicis> i guess this is one of jkr's many strenths [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> to me, the only thing I can think of is the elaborate plot of GoF [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> why did Harry have to go through all of the Triwizard Tournament, when BC, jr. could have just kidnapped him? [19:24] <jaimedanser> he couldn't have [19:24] <MafaldaWeasley> mm I don't think we can actually judge plot holes until we have read the last one [19:24] <jaimedanser> Dumbledore was right there [19:25] <jaimedanser> he had to do something that would seem perfectly reasonable [19:25] <jaimedanser> like Harry dying in the tournament [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> he was the trusted MAdeye Moody [19:25] <Aislinn> yes, I think secrecy was the key there [19:25] <MrMcGonagall> Jo is incredibly organized about the way she writes. [19:25] *** MafaldaWeasley has quit [Bye] [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> he could have gotten blood easily, I think, given the class he was teaching [19:26] *** DorisTLC has quit [Bye] [19:26] *** LilaCatsfoot has joined #lounge [19:26] *** Narya has joined #lounge [19:26] <mollywobbles23> I think that most people think that about faux Mad Eye, but I like to think that the cup was going to be a portkey anyway (to the outside of the maze), so that's why it was able to be made, but faux Mad Eye changed it's destination. [19:26] *** MrMcGonagall has quit [Bye] [19:26] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:26] <Aislinn> hi people [19:26] <mollywobbles23> its* [19:26] <MrMcGonagall> Wizards need money because "there is legislation about what you can conjure and what you can't. Something that you conjure out of thin air will not last." There is also this quote: "With a charm you add properties to something. With a transfiguration you change its nature completely; the molecular structure alters..." Why can't wizards transfigure something into gold? [19:27] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's because transfiguration isn't permanent. It will eventually dissipate or change back. [19:27] <jaimedanser> well, I think don't think it would work [19:27] <LilaCatsfoot> Maybe that's why gold is so valuable: something about its molecular structure prevents it being created by magic. [19:27] <jaimedanser> transfiguration, like conjuring, probably isn't permanent [19:27] <mollywobbles23> yeah [19:27] <fenixfelicis> didnt the philosopher's stone change things into gold? [19:27] *** Mafalda has joined #lounge [19:27] <jaimedanser> fenix-yea, but that was destroyed [19:27] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think conjuring is a form of transfiguration. [19:28] <Aislinn> so, do people think that the gerbil that Fudge made out of a teacup for the Minister, eventually changed back to a teacup? [19:28] <Narya> It's too much like corrupting something very pure, to be able to transfigure something into gold - except by alchemy, and that's more like tranmuting, rather than transfiguring [19:28] <LilaCatsfoot> Good question, Aislinn [19:28] <fenixfelicis> so it is possible to do, it is just very difficult? [19:28] <Aislinn> the minister's niece would have been very disappointed [19:28] <Mafalda> mm sorry guys, I'm having problems hehe. I think my puter is excited about DH [19:28] <jaimedanser> aislinn-yea, she would've [19:28] <Narya> I'd feel very sorry for the gerbil if it had to spend its life hunting for a saucer and some tea [19:28] <fenixfelicis> arent we all mafalda!!! hee hee!! last chat!!! [19:28] <Aislinn> ithe booth is acting up a bit too mafalda [19:29] <MrMcGonagall> Me too, Narya. [19:29] <Mafalda> ahh snuffles is excited...okay, no muffins for Snuffles. [19:29] <MrMcGonagall> I think Jo has said elsewhere that transfiguring and conjuring is only temporary. [19:29] <mollywobbles23> lol, Narya [19:29] <Mafalda> mm that's interesting MrM [19:29] <LilaCatsfoot> I'm trying to think of any examples where something has been transfigured permanently, and I really can't. [19:29] <Narya> I'm uselss with physics, but I imagine transfiguration to be temporary, rather than permanent [19:29] <jaimedanser> yea...I remember reading that somewhere, MrM [19:30] <LilaCatsfoot> I know Jo has said that she had to really outline the limits of magic in creating this world. [19:30] <ProngsPatronus> something like an elastic band--it may stretch, but it goes back to its natural state [19:30] <mollywobbles23> hmm [19:30] <Mafalda> I thought transfiguration should be reverted by a spell as well [19:30] <jaimedanser> Prongs-nice metaphor. Yeah [19:31] <MrMcGonagall> For instance, you couldn't conjure a house. You could maybe hold it together with magic (like the teetery tottery Burrow) but you couldn't simply conjure something permanent out of thin air. [19:31] <jaimedanser> haha, you wake up one day and your house is gone... [19:31] <Aislinn> I wonder about that, with the sauces that Molly adds to her cooking [19:31] <jaimedanser> Oh, that would be weird [19:31] <fenixfelicis> maybe the length of time something stays transfigured depends on the power of the wizard [19:31] <jaimedanser> aislinn-well, I think that's a specific spelll [19:31] <Aislinn> they may add flavor, but not be substantial/permanent nutrition [19:31] <jaimedanser> different from conjuring? [19:31] <Mafalda> then how did DD conjured that chair at the MoM? An McGonagall those other chairs? mmm got confused [19:31] <LilaCatsfoot> They wouldn't be much use as food, if they don't stay. [19:31] <ProngsPatronus> there is a permanent sticking charm, though [19:31] <Narya> So what would happen to the chair which DD conjured for Sybill in PoA? Does it just vanish when no longer needed? [19:32] <jaimedanser> Narya-yea, I think it did [19:32] <ProngsPatronus> and the protections on hogwarts have been there for ages [19:32] <mollywobbles23> probably [19:32] <LilaCatsfoot> I think all those chairs did disappear. [19:32] <Aislinn> I don't think molly conjures food, but she does have sauces pour from her wand [19:32] <LilaCatsfoot> They were just for temporary use. [19:32] <fenixfelicis> the pig's tail on dudley had to be operated off [19:32] <MrMcGonagall> I think conjured items can stick around for a while, but not forever. Molly's sauces and McG's sandwiches could have been a kind of Summoning Apparition spell. [19:32] <fenixfelicis> it seemed permanent [19:32] <jaimedanser> fenix-well, that wasn't conjuring [19:32] <Narya> Sounds more like Charms, Aislinn, rather than Transfiguration [19:32] <LilaCatsfoot> I agree, MrMcGonagall [19:32] <Aislinn> I wonder if conjured stuff is summoned from somehwere else? [19:33] <jaimedanser> i don't think...... [19:33] <jaimedanser> yea, it did sound like Charms [19:33] <NYBookworm> hmmmm conjured yummy parts of food that dissapppear before heading to fat cells sounds pretty good to me [19:33] <fenixfelicis> no jaime i think it would be more like transfiguration..... [19:33] <Narya> Like the magical ether, maybe? [19:33] <jaimedanser> aislinn-yeah, I wondered that, too [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is--like the mead DD offered the Dursleys [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think conjured stuff is necessarily. I think some of those summoning spells just look like conjuring. [19:33] <LilaCatsfoot> fenix, maybe the tail would have disappeared if the Dursleys had given it time. [19:33] <jaimedanser> like if there's a room of stuff to conjure or something [19:33] <Aislinn> to me too, NYB - LOL [19:33] <LilaCatsfoot> That's what I was thinking, NYBookworm [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> In the same interview, JKR says: ""To invent this wizard world, I've learned a ridiculous amount about alchemy. Perhaps much of it I'll never use in the books, but I have to know in detail what magic can and cannot do in order to set the parameters and establish the stories' internal logic." How does alchemy relate to the 'internal logic' of the series? Do you think the books would be as rich without alchemy? [19:34] <mollywobbles23> like a wizarding world Room of Requirement (for conjuring) [19:34] <fenixfelicis> alchemy as in what? [19:34] <LilaCatsfoot> Hmm..I don't know much about alchemy... [19:34] <mollywobbles23> Yeah, I don't know much about it either [19:34] <Narya> Oh, alchemy ... stuff of legend, endlessly fascinating (with a wink to Mr McG) [19:34] <MrMcGonagall> I have to admit that I've never really followed all of the alchemy arguments concerning the series. [19:35] <Narya> I don't think the books would be half as rich without alchemy - its influence is everywhere [19:35] <Aislinn> some aspects of alchemy are like precursors of chemistry [19:35] <Aislinn> so it supports the notion of the structure and rules that are applied to the magic [19:35] <LilaCatsfoot> I'm sure that the books are heavily enriched by a variety of legends and folklore regarding magic, including alchemy. [19:35] <mollywobbles23> All I know is that first Sirius died (black), then DD (white), and so the theory goes that Hagrid will (Rubeus = red). [19:35] <fenixfelicis> like where narya? [19:35] <ProngsPatronus> I think that, if there is a WW equivalent to physics, it is alchemy [19:35] <Narya> Every time I think of alchemy, I think of quintessence [19:35] <Narya> That for instance, fenix [19:35] <Aislinn> there are references throughout the series [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> Except rubeus doesn't mean red in Latin. It means brambly or thorny. [19:36] <Narya> Harry in HBP [19:36] <jaimedanser> aislinn-yeah, there are [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> Now, quintessence I can understand. [19:36] <Aislinn> Harry is reading a book about Quintessence, a Quest, in one of the books [19:36] <Narya> I think JKR used artistic licence with that one, Mr McG [19:36] *** the_heir_of_ravenclaw has quit [Bye] [19:36] <jaimedanser> I just don't follow them as much as I do other things [19:36] <Narya> Flitwick's set book in Charms [19:36] <mollywobbles23> I think maybe they were going for the "rub" as in ruby, maybe. I don't know. I didn't do the research. [19:36] <Narya> Interesting choice of textbook [19:36] <Aislinn> there are many red references/characters in the books, so Rubeus is just one possibility [19:36] <ProngsPatronus> rubeo, I think [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> I wondered why quintessence was being studied in Charms? [19:36] <fenixfelicis> oooohhhh. its all the stuff we were just talking about like transfiguration [19:37] <Aislinn> yes, Narya [19:37] <Narya> Then we could have Snape as the vitriol in alchemy ... without bringing him right into yet another discussion [19:37] <fenixfelicis> changing stuff to gold and so on [19:37] <Narya> the catalyst, unchanging and unchanged [19:37] <jaimedanser> Narya-hmm...interesting [19:37] <Aislinn> he is that - unchanging and unchanged [19:37] <Aislinn> and definitely vitriolic! [19:37] <Narya> LOL - yes, for sure [19:37] <jaimedanser> haha, yeah [19:37] <fenixfelicis> i guess she used the alchemy to set her rules then [19:37] <LilaCatsfoot> I should know what vitriolic means...but I don't. Any help? [19:37] <Narya> And of course, DD was an alchemist and LV is the twisted alchemsit [19:38] <Narya> *alchemist [19:38] <Aislinn> acidic - nasty [19:38] <ProngsPatronus> acidic, lila [19:38] <LilaCatsfoot> Thanks - yes, absolutely! [19:38] *** Aquamarine has quit [Bye] [19:38] <MrMcGonagall> One of the major rules of magic is that "Magic cannot bring dead people back to life…. Once you're dead, you're dead." JKR has skirted around this issue in her books, with the Draught of Living Death, animated pictures, and the like. Do you believe this is an important rule? What would the Potterverse be like without this rule? [19:38] <Narya> DD worked with Nicolas Flamel, so there's the biggest alchemical reference right there [19:38] <jaimedanser> well, without that rule.... [19:38] <jaimedanser> deaths wouldn't mean anything [19:39] <mollywobbles23> exactly [19:39] <fenixfelicis> the fight between good & evil would be much more complicated [19:39] <jaimedanser> and Voldemort would always be there.... [19:39] <ProngsPatronus> or death would be more horrible than life [19:39] <Aislinn> Death is such an important theme throughout the series [19:39] <Narya> I think it's an important rule, but the DoLD intrigues me still - in setting the rule though, she established her parameters, and that's vital for any writer [19:39] <MrMcGonagall> I think this is an important rule. [19:39] <fenixfelicis> it would be difficult for people to move on, to progress [19:39] <jaimedanser> Aislinn-I'd say it's one of the main themes [19:39] <Mafalda> mm Imagine LV finding a way to bring Slytherin back from the goners... [19:39] <LilaCatsfoot> Yes, jaime, it would drain the meaning out of life if it weren't temporary and fragile. [19:39] <Aislinn> the tale would not be what it is, if people could be brought back to life [19:39] <fenixfelicis> and death sort of makes people more independent [19:39] <Aislinn> I think it is one of them, yes, jaime [19:39] <jaimedanser> Mafalda-haha [19:40] <fenixfelicis> the survivors i mean [19:40] <Aislinn> it is Harry's reaction to his parents' deaths, to sirius's, to Dd's, that have spurred him on in his quest [19:40] <Narya> And made him the man he is [19:40] <jaimedanser> Yea, exactly [19:40] <Mafalda> yeah, terrifying thought. No, the deads belong to some other esphera [19:40] <LilaCatsfoot> Like Dumbledore said, we wish so much for unlimited life and riches, yet that would be so bad for us. [19:40] <jaimedanser> That's what made him want to go after Voldemort so much [19:40] <Aislinn> yes, narya [19:40] <mollywobbles23> Do we even know what exactly happens to someone if they drink Draught of the Living Death? [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> not yet [19:41] <Narya> We don't know, but that's one thing I'm really keen to find out [19:41] <Aislinn> we don't yet, molly, but it will be interesting to find out [19:41] <LilaCatsfoot> I always think of Juliet. [19:41] <Mafalda> nop, molly, I think we don't [19:41] <Aislinn> I think we'll learn [19:41] <fenixfelicis> i hope we learn more in dh [19:41] <jaimedanser> sadly, we don't [19:41] <mollywobbles23> me too, Lila [19:41] <jaimedanser> I want to know [19:41] <MrMcGonagall> I'm sure we will fenix. [19:41] *** Velse has joined #lounge [19:41] <Narya> I definitely think we'll learn, and it'll be fascinating [19:41] <LilaCatsfoot> Remember when Dumbledore told Draco that they could hide his family? [19:41] <jaimedanser> yea.... [19:41] <LilaCatsfoot> Didn't he say something about making them seem to be dead? [19:42] <Narya> It's clearly important, since Snape mentioned it in his very first Potions lesson [19:42] <jaimedanser> Lila-yea, he did [19:42] <Narya> Yes he did, Lila [19:42] <Aislinn> hi velse [19:42] <Velse> Hi, Aislinn! [19:42] <MrMcGonagall> Speaking of the rules about Death, JKR informs us that "the happiest people do not become ghosts." What is it about happiness that prevents one from becoming a ghost? Can there be something else that would render a wizard ghostly other than unhappiness? [19:42] <LilaCatsfoot> And, Narya, Slughorn had them work on it too, didn't he? [19:42] <Narya> Yes he did [19:42] <mollywobbles23> I wonder if it means anything that the first potion that the Half-Blood Prince helps Harry make is DoLD? [19:42] <Velse> "The next great adventure" [19:42] <Mafalda> fear [19:43] <jaimedanser> fear of death probably [19:43] <Aislinn> fear [19:43] <mollywobbles23> unfinished business [19:43] <jaimedanser> wanting revenge [19:43] <Narya> Happy people are content to leave the world knowing that they have served their purpose and it's their time to go [19:43] <mollywobbles23> yeah, Myrtle proved that jaimedanser [19:43] <Velse> Right [19:43] <fenixfelicis> i wonder what professor binns was unhappy about. [19:43] <Narya> I wonder if guilt might render a wizard ghostly [19:43] <Aislinn> that is what nearly headless nick said - he was afraid of death [19:43] <Velse> I think Binns just never lived [19:43] <Narya> Or unfinished business, or having done something terrible [19:43] <jaimedanser> unhappy people want a chance to do their lives over again I think [19:43] <jaimedanser> so they become ghosts... [19:43] <MrMcGonagall> Happy people are not governed by fear. [19:43] <mollywobbles23> I think his was unfinished business. I think he just wanted to keep teaching. He didn't feel he was finished. [19:44] <jaimedanser> molly--I think he felt he hadn't taught everything he should [19:44] <Velse> No one ever finishes life, but we have to accept our limitations [19:44] <fenixfelicis> that's true binns was very dull [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> thing is, he teaches the same things every year [19:44] <mollywobbles23> I want to know why Nick got his head cut off and why the Bloody Baron is so bloody as a ghost. [19:44] <Velse> Think of Sirius, he was hardly finished! [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> nothing really new [19:44] <Velse> Yet he is not a ghost [19:44] <Aislinn> that's true, velse, he was not ready to go [19:45] *** huebbe has quit [Bye] [19:45] <Aislinn> but went in any event [19:45] <jaimedanser> No, but Sirius died a different way, didn't he? [19:45] <Mafalda> well, Sirius was no afraid of anything. In fact I think he seeked death [19:45] <Velse> Interesting [19:45] <jaimedanser> it wasn't the curse, it was falling through the veil [19:45] <fenixfelicis> sirius died protecting harry and i think that was appropriate [19:45] <Aislinn> he certainly didnt' try to avoid it, you're right mafalda [19:45] <Narya> He might not have been ready, but he would have been happy knowing that Harry was happy to keep up the fight for what was right [19:45] <jaimedanser> anyway, I think Sirius was happy enough with his life [19:46] <jaimedanser> It wasn't perfect, but... [19:46] <Velse> I don't really think he was happy [19:46] <Aislinn> and did not fear death [19:46] <jaimedanser> yeah, he definitely wasn't afraid to die [19:46] <Velse> But he was not the kind of person to blame others or give up his end of the burden [19:46] <jaimedanser> he proved that by comign to the MOM that night [19:46] <Velse> Right [19:46] <Narya> I think Sirius found happiness in Harry, despite having suffered from "arrested development" as JKR put it [19:46] <Velse> He was mature in that one way [19:46] <Velse> That he wanted to care for Harry [19:46] <fenixfelicis> i think sirius was happy to finally be doing what he truly wanted to be doing -- fighting alongside his comrades [19:47] <Velse> Be a good role model] [19:47] <Mafalda> yes Fenix [19:47] <jaimedanser> fenix-yeah, I really think he was [19:47] <LilaCatsfoot> mollywobbles, you asked about why Nick got his head cut off - there's something on JKR's site, I think aobut this [19:47] <jaimedanser> that's all he wanted to do [19:47] <ProngsPatronus> I think he was happy at the end--he got to make his mark protecting harry and the others [19:47] <Velse> I agree. Prongs [19:47] <MrMcGonagall> On Thestrals, JKR says: "I decided you had to have seen the death and allowed it to sink in a bit ..." Why do you think death has to "sink in" before one can see a Thestral? [19:47] <mollywobbles23> really? cool [19:47] <jaimedanser> he wanted to do something to help the fight against Voldemort [19:47] <Velse> Acceptance, going beyond denial? [19:47] <fenixfelicis> to give the survivor time to grieve [19:47] <jaimedanser> accepting the death, I think [19:47] <mdbennett> accepting one's death [19:48] <Mafalda> I think they symbolise understanding... [19:48] <LilaCatsfoot> I think it was also a writing issue: she didn't want to bring up Thestrals at the end of GoF. [19:48] <Narya> Death has to become real to the person, instead of just something to read about or to experience though another [19:48] <mollywobbles23> yeah, acceptance, I think it really had more to do with her not wanting to introduce a new Kreacher at the end of a book. [19:48] <jaimedanser> Lila-yes, she did say that [19:48] <Aislinn> I think there is a definite denial at first [19:48] <fenixfelicis> the last thing they need after the shock of death is the other shock of the thestral [19:48] <Aislinn> especially if it is something one has not experienced personally before [19:48] <LilaCatsfoot> No doubt, fenix [19:48] <fenixfelicis> seeing death must be a truly life changing experience [19:49] <ProngsPatronus> it is [19:49] <Narya> I think the physical form of the Thestral is meant to symbolise the fact that death isn't as scary as most people think, since Thestrals are pretty benign creatures in the books [19:49] <jaimedanser> But I really think that a person needed time to grieve before they saw a thestral [19:49] <jaimedanser> Narya-yes, I really think it is meant to do that [19:49] <jaimedanser> because everyone is afraid of thestrals, but they are really quite gentle [19:49] <Mafalda> but they are ugly at first [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> there is also a stage called denial of the death--and I think that, if one is in that stage of grief, that one would deny the thestrals, too [19:50] <Narya> It proves that perceptions aren't always accurate [19:50] <Velse> Thestrals are attracted to the smell of blood... [19:50] <jaimedanser> Narya-yep, it does =D [19:50] <Mafalda> I loved that Luna part [19:50] <Narya> And beauty, as they say, is only skin deep [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> they are carnivorous [19:50] <LilaCatsfoot> Ooh, good point, Prongs! [19:50] <Narya> Nature of the beast, PP [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> it is [19:51] <jaimedanser> Well, yes, they are, PP, but they don't attack people, now do they? [19:51] <Velse> I think they're based on Nightmares, the norse demon [19:51] <Velse> We're always afraid of the dark [19:51] <jaimedanser> they aren't monsters, people just see them as that [19:51] <fenixfelicis> or the unknown [19:51] <Velse> That doesn't mean it's truly dangerous, only that we feel unsafe and out of control [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> to me, thestrals are Night mares [19:51] <mollywobbles23> the unknown like death. [19:51] <jaimedanser> they're actually quite useful, because they can get you somewhere [19:51] <jaimedanser> without using a broom [19:51] <LilaCatsfoot> And they represent all of those things: death, the unknown, darkness, etc. [19:52] <Velse> Agreed [19:52] <mollywobbles23> and without you knowing exactly what direction to go [19:52] <Mafalda> Hagrid sees them? don't he? [19:52] <Narya> I'm not sure about Thestrals being nightmares - I still think they're quite benign and have a gentle nature [19:52] <Velse> Dreams are not all fun or happy! [19:52] <ProngsPatronus> yes, he does [19:52] <jaimedanser> Hagrid does, yea [19:52] *** tj2g has joined #lounge [19:52] <Mafalda> why? [19:52] <mollywobbles23> I'm sure he waw someone die [19:52] <mollywobbles23> saw [19:52] <ProngsPatronus> no--I meant exactly what I wrote--female creatures of the night [19:52] <jaimedanser> I think he saw his dad die? [19:52] <Aislinn> hi tj2g [19:52] <mollywobbles23> his father maybe [19:52] <mollywobbles23> and he was around during the first war [19:52] <tj2g> hola [19:53] <Velse> Night mares are a norse notion--a kind of demon [19:53] <fenixfelicis> didnt hagrid see petter pettigrew kill those 20 people? [19:53] <Velse> But JKR made it her own [19:53] <Mafalda> mm txs guys [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> his father, wwasn't it? [19:53] <mollywobbles23> no [19:53] <jaimedanser> fenix-no [19:53] <jaimedanser> he didn't... [19:53] <fenixfelicis> only he thought it was sirius [19:53] <Mafalda> hola Tj2g [19:53] <jaimedanser> he just said he wished he'd been there to kill Sirius [19:53] <Narya> And Pettigrew only killed 12, not 20 [19:53] <fenixfelicis> oh [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> B"They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore's office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. " [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> As you can guess, we are talking about the wonderful portraits in HP. Do you think this rule is as absolute as some of the others? What about the portrait of Phineas Nigellus—does he follow this rule? [19:54] <Aislinn> I think her statement here was quite misleading [19:54] <jaimedanser> hmm...well, Phineas doesn't exactly give counsel [19:54] <LilaCatsfoot> Phineas seems very much there - especially his reaction to the news that Sirius had died. [19:54] <Velse> I think its interesting that they are able to act and communicate about current events [19:54] <fenixfelicis> sure he does [19:54] <jaimedanser> he tends to criticize Dumbledore [19:54] <Narya> I think that Phineas is more "chatty" than the other portraits because - to me at least - he had quite a magnetic personality in life, and was probably quite a forceful wizard [19:54] <Mafalda> I think he does, but those portrais own their loyaltie to Hogwarts. Thye must have been bounded magically to do so [19:54] <Velse> The least popular HM of Hogwarts [19:54] <LilaCatsfoot> "Counsel" could include criticism. [19:54] <Aislinn> the portraits have much too much personality, decision making capability, and emotional reaction to things, to be mere imprints [19:55] <fenixfelicis> and criticism can be a form of 'counsel' [19:55] <jaimedanser> Ok, well if counsel includes criticism, then...yea [19:55] <Aislinn> the fat lady is quite chatty too [19:55] <Velse> And even gets drunk [19:55] <Narya> Constructive criticism, in Phineas's case [19:55] <Narya> Another magnetic personality! [19:55] <Narya> She is indeed [19:55] <jaimedanser> haha, yeah, that's funny [19:55] <Aislinn> right [19:55] <LilaCatsfoot> I suppose it could still be like a personality program that continues to run. [19:55] <fenixfelicis> i do think the portraits do seem to be like the living [19:55] <Velse> It must be peaceful, being a portrait [19:55] <jaimedanser> okay, but I don't quite understand how portraits are made [19:56] <LilaCatsfoot> Y'think? [19:56] <jaimedanser> are they just automatically made when someone dies? [19:56] <Mafalda> yes, jaime [19:56] <LilaCatsfoot> Not when every person dies, I imagine. [19:56] <jaimedanser> or do they have to have a portrait painted before they die? [19:56] <mollywobbles23> not just anyone, though [19:56] <Narya> I don't think I'd like to be a portrait - must be a bit strange having to hang on a wall all day [19:56] <tj2g> i dont think they are automatic for everyone though [19:56] <fenixfelicis> the hardest part for me is how the portraits can learn. they can keep up with current events and remember them later on. [19:56] <jaimedanser> well, no, not ANYONE [19:56] <Mafalda> I think it must be part of the magical stuff at Hogwarts, talking about the hogwarts ones... [19:56] <Velse> Maybe we'll find out if they remember their death? [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps it is a matter of critical mass [19:57] <Velse> And will DD have to counsel Minerval McG? [19:57] <LilaCatsfoot> I wonder if portraits at Hogwarts are more potent because the air is full of magic there. [19:57] <Velse> Tell her more than he did in life? [19:57] <fenixfelicis> but at least the portraits are usually sitting in comfortable chairs [19:57] <Narya> In what sense, PP? [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> the more portraits, the better, more vivid they are [19:57] <Velse> Interesting! [19:57] <mollywobbles23> like all that magic concentrated in the castle, seeps into the portraits? [19:57] <LilaCatsfoot> yes, molly [19:57] <Narya> The more "alive" they are, you mean? That would make sense [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> yes--and the activity from the other portraits, too [19:57] <Narya> Right [19:57] <Velse> It's like a Hogwarts spy network. [19:58] <Velse> I wonder if DD set it up? [19:58] <fenixfelicis> and maybe how powerful they were when living [19:58] <LilaCatsfoot> (Can I ask a movie question? Why do you think Filch was taking down the portraits?) [19:58] <Narya> I think the portrait system pre-dates DD [19:58] <ProngsPatronus> I think it has been there a long time [19:58] <jaimedanser> he was doing that to some in the book, too [19:58] <Aislinn> I think the portraits were one of the ways that DD kept such a close watch on Harry [19:58] <fenixfelicis> i dont know lila. he seemed to have a lot of fun teasing the inhabitants [19:58] <LilaCatsfoot> Was he, jaime? I didn't remember that. [19:58] <jaimedanser> It was the ones that Umbridge found obnoxious or dirty, I think [19:59] <mollywobbles23> really? I wasn't sure if it was in the book or not. It's been awhile. [19:59] <Velse> I thought it was because she thought they were inappropriate for young minds. [19:59] <LilaCatsfoot> The whole central area was clear of them. [19:59] <fenixfelicis> maybe cause he doenst like to clean them [19:59] <jaimedanser> Velse-something along those lines [19:59] <MrMcGonagall> This is a question Aislinn, our Fearless Leader, wanted to know! JKR: "I've used bits of what people used to believe worked magically just to add a certain flavor, but I've always twisted them to suit my own ends. I mean, I've taken liberties with folklore, um, to suit my plot." In what ways has Jo twisted folklore for her own ends? [19:59] <LilaCatsfoot> You could be right, jaime [19:59] <Mafalda> when he DD didn't a portrait appear on the room? didn't mcgonagall stared at it for a while? [19:59] <Narya> The Grim, for instance - springs immediately to mind [19:59] <LilaCatsfoot> Mafalda, I think he was sleeping. [20:00] <jaimedanser> yeah, definitely the Grim [20:00] <Velse> I think she's unified many different traditions (night mares, banshees, etc.) [20:00] <LilaCatsfoot> Hippogriffs, maybe? [20:00] <Mafalda> txs Lila [20:00] <fenixfelicis> i read somewhere that she changed the basilisk [20:00] <jaimedanser> and she twisted mermaids a lot... [20:00] <Narya> The Giant Squid - almost like Nessie [20:00] <ProngsPatronus> weasels and cocks are specifics for basilisks [20:00] <mollywobbles23> (side note: basilisk fears weasels as well as the cry of the rooster) [20:00] <Velse> House elves are like the shoemakers elf, not the Tolkein elves [20:00] <LilaCatsfoot> I really like her mermaids! [20:00] <jaimedanser> they don't seem quite as pretty now... [20:00] <jaimedanser> lol [20:00] <jaimedanser> I like them too, Lila [20:00] <Aislinn> I think it is so fascinating how much she seems to know about folklore and mythology, yet what a refreshing twist she puts on it in her own tale [20:01] <Velse> Centaurs are more similar to the original--proud, violent [20:01] <Velse> Her merpeopel are also more like the original celtic seelie folk [20:01] <LilaCatsfoot> Are centaurs usually thought to be knowledgeable about divinatin? [20:01] <Narya> Not all Centaurs were violent, though - Firenze definitely wasn't [20:01] <Velse> Not that I know of [20:01] <jaimedanser> Velse-well, yes, they are [20:01] <Velse> True, but they are j hunters (a la Sagitarrius) [20:01] <jaimedanser> but they aren't how most people see them I mean [20:01] <ProngsPatronus> yes, lila--they are the ones who taught the art to humans [20:01] <Narya> Just like the star sign, I know [20:01] <LilaCatsfoot> Didn't know that. [20:02] <Velse> Sorry, I meant in mythology were they diviners [20:02] <Velse> Not in HP [20:02] <LilaCatsfoot> I read a good story with a house elf in it: Hob and the Goblins. [20:02] <Narya> In Greek mythology, possibly - PP? [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> yes, velse [20:02] <LilaCatsfoot> Hob's job was to take care of the house and its inhabitants. [20:02] <Velse> Ah! [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> I was answering from the mythology angel [20:02] <Velse> You can never say thank you to an elf in the celtic stories, or they disappear [20:02] <Narya> Unicorns are from folklore and legend, too [20:03] <Velse> It's like the clothes [20:03] <mollywobbles23> interesting [20:03] <Velse> Unicorns were also a christian symbol of virtue and purity [20:03] <jaimedanser> velse-yes, I imagine that's where she got he idea [20:03] <Aislinn> oh really, velse? I didn't know that [20:03] <Narya> And her dragons, of course [20:03] <jaimedanser> but just changed it a little [20:03] <mollywobbles23> giants too [20:03] <fenixfelicis> the sorting hat is a funny twist [20:03] <mdbennett> Sphinx? [20:03] <LilaCatsfoot> Yeah, sphinxes are known for giving riddles, I think. [20:03] <Mafalda> i liked the sphinx [20:03] <mollywobbles23> The dementors look like Death [20:04] <jaimedanser> her sphinx is basically exactly what they are in mythology [20:04] <LilaCatsfoot> Yes, the grim reaper [20:04] <Velse> She has ghouls and hags as well [20:04] <jaimedanser> and she said the dementors were supposed to represent depression [20:04] <Velse> All the graveyard beasties [20:04] <mollywobbles23> do boggarts come from anything? [20:04] <Narya> A lot of JKR's herbology is based on folklore, too [20:04] <Velse> Yes, the bogie man is also called a boggart [20:04] <mollywobbles23> yeah, but they look like Death [20:04] <LilaCatsfoot> I've heard of boggarts, but they are like poltergeists. [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> lyes, they do, molly [20:04] <Velse> Unreasonable fear [20:04] <Aislinn> it is, narya, I've noticed that too [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> they are celtic folklore [20:04] <Velse> She doesn't have a Pooka, but she does have Peeves [20:04] <fenixfelicis> and the veela? [20:05] <Mafalda> and the mandragora [20:05] <Velse> I was wondering about Veela [20:05] <LilaCatsfoot> THey remind me of sirens [20:05] <Velse> Yes [20:05] <mollywobbles23> yes!~ [20:05] <jaimedanser> the veela were supposed to represent sirens, sort of [20:05] <mollywobbles23> I couldn't think of the name [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> the veela have a place, too--they are much like Harpies [20:05] <fenixfelicis> the leprechauns seem to be the same except i dont know if their gold is supposed to disappear [20:05] <Velse> That's true, when they get mad [20:05] <mollywobbles23> I was like "the things from The Odyssey..." [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> it is, fenix [20:05] <LilaCatsfoot> I wonder if there is an eastern European version of the veela. [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> it only lasts one night [20:05] <jaimedanser> molly-haha, yeah [20:05] <Narya> Leprachauns are very mischievous, so their gold disappears [20:06] <ProngsPatronus> I believe so [20:06] <LilaCatsfoot> Makes sense to me, Narya [20:06] <MrMcGonagall> Speaking of folklore, JKR has created some of her own-- the Sorting Hat. The author says this about the Sorting Hat: It has never been wrong. When the Hat speaks on its own, it speaks for the Founders. "The sorting hat is certainly sincere." Do you think the Sorting Hat has ever been wrong? Why? [20:06] <Velse> Fairy gold always disappears in celtic myth [20:06] <mollywobbles23> how many heads did the hydra have? [20:06] <Velse> 9 [20:06] <jaimedanser> Hmm...good question about the hat [20:06] <Velse> I think [20:06] <Narya> I don't think the Hat has ever been wrong - even though it seems to have made a couple of strange Sortings [20:06] <mollywobbles23> that's what I thought [20:06] <jaimedanser> I don't think it's ever been wrong This post has been edited by Aislinn: Jul 18 2007, 08:34 PM |
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