Www Transcript For 07/18/07, The Rules of the Wizarding World |
 Jul 18 2007, 08:33 PM
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Chief Cat Herder  Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain!    |
Facilitators: Mr. McGonagall, Aislinn, Prongs Patronus
[18:57] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge [18:57] *** Snuffles changed the topic to: The Rules of the Wizarding World (Aislinn) [18:58] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [18:58] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [18:59] *** NYBookworm has quit [Bye] [18:59] <ProngsPatronus> hmmm--no one shows up as in here... [18:59] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [18:59] <Aislinn> you don't see names on the right? [18:59] *** jaimedanser has joined #lounge [18:59] <ProngsPatronus> no, I don't [18:59] <Aislinn> hi jaimedanser [19:00] <jaimedanser> hi [19:00] <Aislinn> try typing /reconnect, prongs [19:00] *** ProngsPatronus has quit [Bye] [19:00] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:00] <ProngsPatronus> still no names on the right [19:00] <Aislinn> did you go into the old room or the new? [19:01] *** huebbe has joined #lounge [19:01] <ProngsPatronus> the old room [19:01] *** MafaldaWeasley has joined #lounge [19:01] <jaimedanser> Hi huebbe [19:01] *** mollywobbles23 has joined #lounge [19:01] <huebbe> hello all! [19:01] <mollywobbles23> yay! [19:01] <Aislinn> hi everyone! [19:01] <huebbe> haven't been here in a while [19:01] <MafaldaWeasley> hi guys!!!!!!!! [19:01] <Aislinn> last chat before the book is released! [19:02] <Aislinn> how exciting is this??? [19:02] <MafaldaWeasley> holy mother.. two more days!!!!! [19:02] <huebbe> wow, I can't believe it's finally here [19:02] <jaimedanser> only 2 days!!!! [19:02] <jaimedanser> =D [19:02] <Aislinn> it is hard to believe [19:02] <mollywobbles23> Has anyone else been randomly bursting into tears? [19:02] <DorisTLC> I'm almost giddy! [19:02] <jaimedanser> I've been waiting 7 years.... [19:02] <huebbe> he he he [19:02] <jaimedanser> and now it's ALMOST here [19:02] <ProngsPatronus> yes--the Last Chat of Unknowing [19:02] <jaimedanser> molly-yes [19:02] <jaimedanser> I have.... [19:02] <Aislinn> I've been listening to the audio books, mollywobbles23, and they are getting to me even more than usual [19:03] <huebbe> what will we wait to read when this is all over? [19:03] <MafaldaWeasley> ow, last chat.. snif, but I've already been sorted into one of the reading groups [19:03] <jaimedanser> lol, yeah [19:03] *** filliamhmuffman has joined #lounge [19:03] <jaimedanser> Me too, Mafalda! [19:03] <Aislinn> hi filliamhmuffman [19:03] <jaimedanser> =D =D [19:03] <huebbe> which are you? [19:03] <mollywobbles23> And then turn around and laugh like a moron? I'm so happy my family are fans, otherwise they'd think I've gone around the bend. [19:03] *** ProngsPatronus has quit [Bye] [19:03] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:03] <jaimedanser> molly-yea, my family are fans, too [19:03] <MafaldaWeasley> uuu, General. it's very nice there, [19:04] *** ProngsPatronus left #lounge [] [19:04] <jaimedanser> but I think I've been driving them crazy anyway [19:04] <jaimedanser> I'm the biggest fan, I think... [19:04] <MafaldaWeasley> really Jaime? Nice! [19:04] <jaimedanser> =D [19:04] <mollywobbles23> How many times has everyone seen OOTP? I saw it for the fourth time today and seeing it again tomorrow. [19:04] *** JaneMarple9 has joined #lounge [19:04] <mollywobbles23> Jane! [19:04] <jaimedanser> molly-gosh, I've only seen it once [19:04] <Aislinn> I've only seen it once so far, but will definitely be going back [19:04] <JaneMarple9> hello for a little while! [19:04] *** ProngsPatronus has joined #lounge [19:04] <jaimedanser> but I saw it in IMAX and it was AMAZING [19:04] <mollywobbles23> I know, it's crazy [19:05] <huebbe> hi Jane [19:05] <Aislinn> hi jane [19:05] <jaimedanser> hi jane [19:05] <JaneMarple9> (((((Mollywobbles))))) [19:05] <MafaldaWeasley> Molly, I'm not that lucky, I was just spoiled by my brother and he's laughing at me. But it's okay, I don't care [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> there we go! [19:05] <MafaldaWeasley> hey Jane! [19:05] <DorisTLC> IMAX is amazing! I loved it [19:05] <mollywobbles23> it's not at the IMAX in my town yet [19:05] <jaimedanser> yea, the whole time, I was thinking "I can't imagine not seeing this in IMAX" [19:05] <huebbe> I saw the 3D IMAX, the prophecy room was WOW [19:05] <ProngsPatronus> lol--we have to drive the best part of an hour just to get to a theater [19:05] <jaimedanser> 3D battle scene...is...WOW [19:05] *** the_heir_of_ravenclaw has joined #lounge [19:06] <huebbe> lol [19:06] <mollywobbles23> they didn't get GOF until spring (or something. I know I saw a billboard for it on my way to my nephews' baseball game) [19:06] <huebbe> agreed jaimie [19:06] *** fenixfelicis has joined #lounge [19:06] <fenixfelicis> yhi [19:06] <Aislinn> hi folks [19:06] <huebbe> hi all! [19:06] <DorisTLC> The apparating death eaters is a very cool effect in 3D [19:06] *** Aquamarine has joined #lounge [19:06] <jaimedanser> so............what's everyone doing for the release friday night? [19:06] <huebbe> agreed! [19:06] <MafaldaWeasley> hello everybody who came in! [19:06] <Aquamarine> Hello all! [19:06] <fenixfelicis> i want to see it imax so badly! [19:06] <DorisTLC> Oooo - Borders Party! WOOT - Then readying all night [19:06] <huebbe> Hi! [19:06] <JaneMarple9> nothing at all smile [19:07] <mollywobbles23> It's my favorite one. Instead of counting sheep last night, I counted canon moments in the movie. I got to 18 before Harry even had detention. And that wasn't counting canon props like The Quibbler or Neville's plant. [19:07] <jaimedanser> fenix-it's worth it! Keep trying! [19:07] <huebbe> sleeping..... [19:07] <JaneMarple9> eparing for the next day! [19:07] <fenixfelicis> i'm going to be at b&n. i'm going to participate in the trivia contest. [19:07] <huebbe> yes Jane [19:07] <Aquamarine> hey... I'm a little worried to be chatting today: this chat is a complete NO SPOILER zone, right? [19:07] <MafaldaWeasley> friday.. err, I hope reading my book haha [19:07] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:07] <jaimedanser> ooooooo...yea, same question as Aqua [19:07] <ProngsPatronus> yes, no spoilers here [19:07] <jaimedanser> good =D [19:07] <huebbe> hi Mr. Mc [19:07] <fenixfelicis> jaimedanser maybe i will have time after dh to go this weekend [19:07] <ProngsPatronus> we are working hard to make the chat safe [19:07] <MrMcGonagall> Hola! [19:07] <Aquamarine> thank goodness [19:07] <MafaldaWeasley> NO SpOILER Aqua!! squeee! [19:07] <mollywobbles23> I can't imagine any Leaky people doing that. [19:07] <Aquamarine> i know! [19:08] <jaimedanser> molly-me either [19:08] <MafaldaWeasley> hey MrM! [19:08] <huebbe> how's the world? [19:08] <fenixfelicis> how can you made the chat safe? it is so fast. [19:08] <fenixfelicis> i mean make [19:08] <JaneMarple9> we use magic smile [19:08] <huebbe> and ermm.....food? :-) [19:08] <jaimedanser> well, I'm just trusting everyone to be fans on here [19:08] <huebbe> lol [19:08] <ProngsPatronus> lol--we have our wands at the ready, fenix [19:08] <jaimedanser> and not want anything spoiled [19:08] <MafaldaWeasley> My part of the world is nice. We are having the Pan American games biggrin [19:08] <fenixfelicis> ok just as long is it is fail safe [19:08] <mollywobbles23> I've been spoiled, but I'm telling myself they were fake. I was attacked on my livejourna f-list. [19:09] <jaimedanser> gosh, molly...that stinks [19:09] <fenixfelicis> mollywobbles i hope it was fake [19:09] <MrMcGonagall> Spoilers are evil. [19:09] <mollywobbles23> yeah, it was pretty dumb, though. [19:09] <Aislinn> it is so disgusting that some people think it is fun to spoil other people [19:09] <huebbe> agreed [19:09] <jaimedanser> Yes, spoilers are evil [19:09] <ProngsPatronus> probably are fake, molly [19:09] <mollywobbles23> thinking back [19:09] <fenixfelicis> spoilers need to get a life [19:09] <MafaldaWeasley> yeah Molly. I've just been spiled myself...but to be honest I don't care, cause for me the important is not what happened but how it happened [19:09] <jaimedanser> I just wrote a really angry journal entry about people who post spoilers [19:09] <jaimedanser> lol [19:09] <Aislinn> I'm not believing anything until I read it in the book [19:09] <mollywobbles23> I'm still avoiding my f-list now, though. [19:09] <MrMcGonagall> The CB mods definitely have their wands at the ready. [19:09] <Aislinn> you're right, fenix [19:09] <MrMcGonagall> Me too, Aislinn [19:09] <mollywobbles23> me neither, Aislinn [19:10] <fenixfelicis> i'm avoiding everything. this is the only site i can go to. i'm so glad i have it or i would be going crazy!! [19:10] <Aislinn> some sick people just think it is funny to wind us all up [19:10] <jaimedanser> I'm only believing anything Jo says herself [19:10] <jaimedanser> and that I actually hear her say in an interview [19:10] <huebbe> as you should [19:10] <ProngsPatronus> a safe thing to do, jaime [19:10] <Aislinn> yes me too - I trust Leaky, but I'm not venturing anywhere else on the web except jo's site [19:10] <fenixfelicis> how do you guys change your font color? [19:10] <Aislinn> she updated her diary today, asking all fans to not believe the misinformation that is out there [19:10] <mollywobbles23> My dad is such a dork at the moment. He's the one who told me that Jo had updated her Diary today. LOL. He's been visiting Leakky the past couple of weeks. [19:11] <jaimedanser> urgh, well, I have to check my e-mail [19:11] <jaimedanser> which means I have to go to Yahoo's homepage [19:11] <Aislinn> did you click on the hyperlink or the grey button to join, fenix? [19:11] <jaimedanser> and they've been posting some spoiler news stories... [19:11] <Aislinn> ugh [19:11] <Aislinn> my email would wait [19:11] <jaimedanser> I haven't clicked on any, though [19:11] <fenixfelicis> ha! molly my stepdad has been doing the same thing. is your dad a fan? [19:11] <mollywobbles23> such a huge one [19:11] <ProngsPatronus> yahoo has an excellent spam protector [19:11] <jaimedanser> Actually, I've now trained myself to just not look at their news thing [19:11] <MrMcGonagall> What really disappoints me is the way the legitimate media has been treating spoilers. I would think they'd know better. [19:12] <MafaldaWeasley> what I dislike is that the Press is hadling it very bad. They keep advertising those spoilers like a reward, you know? giving them attention and all [19:12] <mollywobbles23> he and my mom went to see the movie on Wed. they wouldn't wait for me. I went on Friday [19:12] <mollywobbles23> lol [19:12] <MafaldaWeasley> haha yes, MrM [19:12] <jaimedanser> MrMcgonagall-I SO agree [19:12] <mollywobbles23> He reread OOTP in three days [19:12] *** mdbennett has joined #lounge [19:12] <ProngsPatronus> Cnn reports that there are some, but not what they say [19:12] <Aislinn> I agree, Mr M - it's not very responsible journalism to report the content of the spoiler [19:12] <fenixfelicis> umm....aislinn i think that i clicked on the grey button [19:12] <mollywobbles23> It was my dad's idea to see it again today. It was his third time seeing it. [19:13] <Aislinn> look down to the right of where you are typing, fenix - if there are << there, or >>, click on them, and you can pick another color [19:13] <ProngsPatronus> cool dad, molly [19:13] <fenixfelicis> ya i know, the spoilers just want the attention and the media is giving it to them! [19:13] <jaimedanser> fenix-EXACTLY [19:13] <mollywobbles23> yep [19:13] <jaimedanser> ugh, I just want to hit those people over the head with a copy of DH [19:13] <Aislinn> which is so sad [19:13] <MrMcGonagall> I got very nervous this morning when the Today Show was doing a segment on spoilers. [19:13] <jaimedanser> see how they like us now......... [19:13] <fenixfelicis> no aislinn there are no >>. oh well. no big deal i guess. [19:13] <mollywobbles23> I'm happy AOL hasn't been putting anything up...I'm going to close the welcome window anyway, though [19:13] <ProngsPatronus> yahoo news is printing the name of the websites, but not the content [19:14] <Aislinn> I got interviewed for our local paper about how I am avoiding spoilers [19:14] <jaimedanser> Prongs-Oh, really? [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> too cool! [19:14] <jaimedanser> well, see, I'm not clickin g on any, so, I wouldn't know [19:14] <MafaldaWeasley> Nice Aislinn! [19:14] <Aislinn> the article is supposed to be in the paper tomorrow, but I'm afraid to read it until after the release - LOL [19:14] <jaimedanser> *clicking [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> yes--so far [19:14] <huebbe> sorry all, must go...just wanted to poke my head in for a moment. I'm off to go do secret stuff! :-) [19:14] <Aislinn> bye huebbe [19:14] <MrMcGonagall> Bye, huebbe! [19:14] <jaimedanser> aw, bye Huebbe [19:14] <ProngsPatronus> bye, huebbe [19:14] <MafaldaWeasley> bye huebbe [19:14] <fenixfelicis> ya i noticed that the local paper which never has anything about hp all of a sudden has an article every day! [19:14] <huebbe> bye! see you all in 2 days!!!!! WEEEEEEEE [19:14] <MrMcGonagall> This should be a great chat tonight. I love the topic. [19:15] <fenixfelicis> oooo secret stuff [19:15] <ProngsPatronus> :-) [19:15] <jaimedanser> fenix-yeah, I hate that [19:15] <jaimedanser> People are like all of the suddne Potter crazy around release dates [19:15] <jaimedanser> *sudden [19:15] <fenixfelicis> jaimedanser i wonder if it will all just go away right after the release or if it will continue [19:15] <MrMcGonagall> I love how ignorant some of the talking heads on TV sound when they try to talk Potter. [19:15] <mollywobbles23> me too MrM [19:15] <jaimedanser> fenix-yea, I've wondered that, too [19:16] <MrMcGonagall> Meredith Vieira's interview with Jo should be hysterical. [19:16] <jaimedanser> MrM-haha, yeah, it's fun to listen to [19:16] <ProngsPatronus> !botsnack [19:16] * Snuffles munches on a yummy treat [19:16] <mollywobbles23> oooh...OOTP preview on TV. "The best film of the summer" No duh. [19:16] <fenixfelicis> who is meredith vieira? [19:16] *** Joyhawk2121 has joined #lounge [19:16] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon. [19:16] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod. [19:17] <Aislinn> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:17] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:17] <Aislinn> Spoilers will result in immediate removal from the chat, and you will not be able to return [19:17] <Aislinn> Thanks for your help and on with the chat! [19:17] <MrMcGonagall> Welcome to the last Wize Wizard Chat before the release of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows! Tonight, we will be discussing the "Rules" of the Potterverse from canon examples and interviews with JKR. [19:18] <MrMcGonagall> The Potter Universe is dominated by magic. JKR said, "I spent a lot of time inventing the rules for the magical world so that I knew the limits of magic. Then I had to invent the different ways wizards could accomplish certain things." [19:18] <MrMcGonagall> "The five years I spent on HP and the Philosopher's Stone were spent constructing The Rules. I had to lay down all my parameters. The most important thing to decide when you're creating a fantasy world is what the characters CAN'T do." What do you think of the idea of limited magic? What limits would you put on [19:18] <jaimedanser> well, I think it makes a lot of sense to limit what magic can do [19:18] <mollywobbles23> well, you can't bring the dead back to life, except in zombie form like Inferi [19:18] <fenixfelicis> limited magic makes it more believable and easier to follow [19:18] <JaneMarple9> no unforgiveable curses [19:18] <jaimedanser> otherwise deaths wouldn't mean much [19:19] <jaimedanser> and yea, I agree with fenix...it makes her world a lot more believable [19:19] *** Joyhawk2121 has quit [Bye] [19:19] <MrMcGonagall> I think magic has to operate according to certain principles. It can't simply do anything. [19:19] <mollywobbles23> also, I don't think magic can make someone suddenly brilliant with one spell or something. [19:19] <jaimedanser> mollywobbles--haha, yeah [19:19] <fenixfelicis> but then it is magic so really there will always be questions [19:19] <jaimedanser> that would seem kind of stupid [19:20] <NYBookworm> If anyone could do anything with no limits that 's a boring story [19:20] <JaneMarple9> take care all [19:20] <fenixfelicis> like i've noticed from these extremely detailed threads in the lounge [19:20] <Aislinn> I agree with that, Mr M [19:20] <mollywobbles23> exactly, NYB [19:20] <MrMcGonagall> It's a little like physics or chemistry. [19:20] <jaimedanser> I don't think ther would be any emotion in a world with unlimited magic [19:20] *** JaneMarple9 has quit [Bye] [19:20] <jaimedanser> cause everything could be fixed... [19:20] <Aislinn> strructure gives meaning [19:20] <mollywobbles23> Didn't Jo say that if they can do anything, there wouldn't be any conflict? [19:20] <jaimedanser> yea [19:20] <jaimedanser> I remember that interview [19:21] <MrMcGonagall> JKR writes of the Potterverse: "I loathe books that have inconsistencies and leave questions unanswered. Loopholes bug the h**l out of me ... so I try to be meticulous and make sure that everything operates according to laws, however odd, so that everyone understands exactly how and why." Do you think the books have plot loopholes? What are they, and why do you consider them loopholes? [19:21] <mollywobbles23> I can't think of any. [19:21] <Aislinn> i think she has done a good job of trying to tie them up [19:21] <filliamhmuffman> one loophole would be, where do things come from when they are conjured? [19:22] <jaimedanser> yea, she's done a great job [19:22] <MafaldaWeasley> we will know that after the last one hehe [19:22] <fenixfelicis> why didnt dd kill voldy when he had the chance? [19:22] <jaimedanser> filliam-oh, yeah, I have wondered that [19:22] <Aislinn> I have seen people say that they don't know why the OotP didn't use side-along apparation when they picked up Harry in OotP [19:22] <MrMcGonagall> Honestly, I do think there are things that are a little contrived at times. Even Jo has admitted that there are some slight inconsistencies. [19:22] <fenixfelicis> well, i guess dd wouldnt kill [19:22] <MrMcGonagall> Things like Harry recovering the Marauder's Map. [19:22] <MrMcGonagall> Jo has sometimes had some 'splainin' to do. [19:23] <jaimedanser> well, yea, Jo has said that a lot of her fans know the rules of her world better than she does [19:23] <jaimedanser> cause we read them more [19:23] <mollywobbles23> I don't think anything qualifies as a plot hole though. [19:23] <ProngsPatronus> inconsistencies , I think, aren't quite the same as plot holes [19:23] <Aislinn> that didn't seem like a big thing though Mr M [19:23] <jaimedanser> Prongs-no, they aren't [19:23] <MrMcGonagall> No, there aren't plot holes you could drive a truck through. [19:24] <jaimedanser> I really think Jo has been good about not leaving any plot holes that Harry could fall into [19:24] <filliamhmuffman> oh whoops, got to go, thanks all [19:24] <mollywobbles23> lol [19:24] *** filliamhmuffman has quit [Bye] [19:24] <MafaldaWeasley> mm I don't think we can actually judge plot holes until we have read the last one [19:24] <fenixfelicis> i guess this is one of jkr's many strenths [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> to me, the only thing I can think of is the elaborate plot of GoF [19:24] <ProngsPatronus> why did Harry have to go through all of the Triwizard Tournament, when BC, jr. could have just kidnapped him? [19:24] <jaimedanser> he couldn't have [19:24] <MafaldaWeasley> mm I don't think we can actually judge plot holes until we have read the last one [19:24] <jaimedanser> Dumbledore was right there [19:25] <jaimedanser> he had to do something that would seem perfectly reasonable [19:25] <jaimedanser> like Harry dying in the tournament [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> he was the trusted MAdeye Moody [19:25] <Aislinn> yes, I think secrecy was the key there [19:25] <MrMcGonagall> Jo is incredibly organized about the way she writes. [19:25] *** MafaldaWeasley has quit [Bye] [19:25] <ProngsPatronus> he could have gotten blood easily, I think, given the class he was teaching [19:26] *** DorisTLC has quit [Bye] [19:26] *** LilaCatsfoot has joined #lounge [19:26] *** Narya has joined #lounge [19:26] <mollywobbles23> I think that most people think that about faux Mad Eye, but I like to think that the cup was going to be a portkey anyway (to the outside of the maze), so that's why it was able to be made, but faux Mad Eye changed it's destination. [19:26] *** MrMcGonagall has quit [Bye] [19:26] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:26] <Aislinn> hi people [19:26] <mollywobbles23> its* [19:26] <MrMcGonagall> Wizards need money because "there is legislation about what you can conjure and what you can't. Something that you conjure out of thin air will not last." There is also this quote: "With a charm you add properties to something. With a transfiguration you change its nature completely; the molecular structure alters..." Why can't wizards transfigure something into gold? [19:27] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's because transfiguration isn't permanent. It will eventually dissipate or change back. [19:27] <jaimedanser> well, I think don't think it would work [19:27] <LilaCatsfoot> Maybe that's why gold is so valuable: something about its molecular structure prevents it being created by magic. [19:27] <jaimedanser> transfiguration, like conjuring, probably isn't permanent [19:27] <mollywobbles23> yeah [19:27] <fenixfelicis> didnt the philosopher's stone change things into gold? [19:27] *** Mafalda has joined #lounge [19:27] <jaimedanser> fenix-yea, but that was destroyed [19:27] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think conjuring is a form of transfiguration. [19:28] <Aislinn> so, do people think that the gerbil that Fudge made out of a teacup for the Minister, eventually changed back to a teacup? [19:28] <Narya> It's too much like corrupting something very pure, to be able to transfigure something into gold - except by alchemy, and that's more like tranmuting, rather than transfiguring [19:28] <LilaCatsfoot> Good question, Aislinn [19:28] <fenixfelicis> so it is possible to do, it is just very difficult? [19:28] <Aislinn> the minister's niece would have been very disappointed [19:28] <Mafalda> mm sorry guys, I'm having problems hehe. I think my puter is excited about DH [19:28] <jaimedanser> aislinn-yea, she would've [19:28] <Narya> I'd feel very sorry for the gerbil if it had to spend its life hunting for a saucer and some tea [19:28] <fenixfelicis> arent we all mafalda!!! hee hee!! last chat!!! [19:28] <Aislinn> ithe booth is acting up a bit too mafalda [19:29] <MrMcGonagall> Me too, Narya. [19:29] <Mafalda> ahh snuffles is excited...okay, no muffins for Snuffles. [19:29] <MrMcGonagall> I think Jo has said elsewhere that transfiguring and conjuring is only temporary. [19:29] <mollywobbles23> lol, Narya [19:29] <Mafalda> mm that's interesting MrM [19:29] <LilaCatsfoot> I'm trying to think of any examples where something has been transfigured permanently, and I really can't. [19:29] <Narya> I'm uselss with physics, but I imagine transfiguration to be temporary, rather than permanent [19:29] <jaimedanser> yea...I remember reading that somewhere, MrM [19:30] <LilaCatsfoot> I know Jo has said that she had to really outline the limits of magic in creating this world. [19:30] <ProngsPatronus> something like an elastic band--it may stretch, but it goes back to its natural state [19:30] <mollywobbles23> hmm [19:30] <Mafalda> I thought transfiguration should be reverted by a spell as well [19:30] <jaimedanser> Prongs-nice metaphor. Yeah [19:31] <MrMcGonagall> For instance, you couldn't conjure a house. You could maybe hold it together with magic (like the teetery tottery Burrow) but you couldn't simply conjure something permanent out of thin air. [19:31] <jaimedanser> haha, you wake up one day and your house is gone... [19:31] <Aislinn> I wonder about that, with the sauces that Molly adds to her cooking [19:31] <jaimedanser> Oh, that would be weird [19:31] <fenixfelicis> maybe the length of time something stays transfigured depends on the power of the wizard [19:31] <jaimedanser> aislinn-well, I think that's a specific spelll [19:31] <Aislinn> they may add flavor, but not be substantial/permanent nutrition [19:31] <jaimedanser> different from conjuring? [19:31] <Mafalda> then how did DD conjured that chair at the MoM? An McGonagall those other chairs? mmm got confused [19:31] <LilaCatsfoot> They wouldn't be much use as food, if they don't stay. [19:31] <ProngsPatronus> there is a permanent sticking charm, though [19:31] <Narya> So what would happen to the chair which DD conjured for Sybill in PoA? Does it just vanish when no longer needed? [19:32] <jaimedanser> Narya-yea, I think it did [19:32] <ProngsPatronus> and the protections on hogwarts have been there for ages [19:32] <mollywobbles23> probably [19:32] <LilaCatsfoot> I think all those chairs did disappear. [19:32] <Aislinn> I don't think molly conjures food, but she does have sauces pour from her wand [19:32] <LilaCatsfoot> They were just for temporary use. [19:32] <fenixfelicis> the pig's tail on dudley had to be operated off [19:32] <MrMcGonagall> I think conjured items can stick around for a while, but not forever. Molly's sauces and McG's sandwiches could have been a kind of Summoning Apparition spell. [19:32] <fenixfelicis> it seemed permanent [19:32] <jaimedanser> fenix-well, that wasn't conjuring [19:32] <Narya> Sounds more like Charms, Aislinn, rather than Transfiguration [19:32] <LilaCatsfoot> I agree, MrMcGonagall [19:32] <Aislinn> I wonder if conjured stuff is summoned from somehwere else? [19:33] <jaimedanser> i don't think...... [19:33] <jaimedanser> yea, it did sound like Charms [19:33] <NYBookworm> hmmmm conjured yummy parts of food that dissapppear before heading to fat cells sounds pretty good to me [19:33] <fenixfelicis> no jaime i think it would be more like transfiguration..... [19:33] <Narya> Like the magical ether, maybe? [19:33] <jaimedanser> aislinn-yeah, I wondered that, too [19:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is--like the mead DD offered the Dursleys [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think conjured stuff is necessarily. I think some of those summoning spells just look like conjuring. [19:33] <LilaCatsfoot> fenix, maybe the tail would have disappeared if the Dursleys had given it time. [19:33] <jaimedanser> like if there's a room of stuff to conjure or something [19:33] <Aislinn> to me too, NYB - LOL [19:33] <LilaCatsfoot> That's what I was thinking, NYBookworm [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> In the same interview, JKR says: ""To invent this wizard world, I've learned a ridiculous amount about alchemy. Perhaps much of it I'll never use in the books, but I have to know in detail what magic can and cannot do in order to set the parameters and establish the stories' internal logic." How does alchemy relate to the 'internal logic' of the series? Do you think the books would be as rich without alchemy? [19:34] <mollywobbles23> like a wizarding world Room of Requirement (for conjuring) [19:34] <fenixfelicis> alchemy as in what? [19:34] <LilaCatsfoot> Hmm..I don't know much about alchemy... [19:34] <mollywobbles23> Yeah, I don't know much about it either [19:34] <Narya> Oh, alchemy ... stuff of legend, endlessly fascinating (with a wink to Mr McG) [19:34] <MrMcGonagall> I have to admit that I've never really followed all of the alchemy arguments concerning the series. [19:35] <Narya> I don't think the books would be half as rich without alchemy - its influence is everywhere [19:35] <Aislinn> some aspects of alchemy are like precursors of chemistry [19:35] <Aislinn> so it supports the notion of the structure and rules that are applied to the magic [19:35] <LilaCatsfoot> I'm sure that the books are heavily enriched by a variety of legends and folklore regarding magic, including alchemy. [19:35] <mollywobbles23> All I know is that first Sirius died (black), then DD (white), and so the theory goes that Hagrid will (Rubeus = red). [19:35] <fenixfelicis> like where narya? [19:35] <ProngsPatronus> I think that, if there is a WW equivalent to physics, it is alchemy [19:35] <Narya> Every time I think of alchemy, I think of quintessence [19:35] <Narya> That for instance, fenix [19:35] <Aislinn> there are references throughout the series [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> Except rubeus doesn't mean red in Latin. It means brambly or thorny. [19:36] <Narya> Harry in HBP [19:36] <jaimedanser> aislinn-yeah, there are [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> Now, quintessence I can understand. [19:36] <Aislinn> Harry is reading a book about Quintessence, a Quest, in one of the books [19:36] <Narya> I think JKR used artistic licence with that one, Mr McG [19:36] *** the_heir_of_ravenclaw has quit [Bye] [19:36] <jaimedanser> I just don't follow them as much as I do other things [19:36] <Narya> Flitwick's set book in Charms [19:36] <mollywobbles23> I think maybe they were going for the "rub" as in ruby, maybe. I don't know. I didn't do the research. [19:36] <Narya> Interesting choice of textbook [19:36] <Aislinn> there are many red references/characters in the books, so Rubeus is just one possibility [19:36] <ProngsPatronus> rubeo, I think [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> I wondered why quintessence was being studied in Charms? [19:36] <fenixfelicis> oooohhhh. its all the stuff we were just talking about like transfiguration [19:37] <Aislinn> yes, Narya [19:37] <Narya> Then we could have Snape as the vitriol in alchemy ... without bringing him right into yet another discussion [19:37] <fenixfelicis> changing stuff to gold and so on [19:37] <Narya> the catalyst, unchanging and unchanged [19:37] <jaimedanser> Narya-hmm...interesting [19:37] <Aislinn> he is that - unchanging and unchanged [19:37] <Aislinn> and definitely vitriolic! [19:37] <Narya> LOL - yes, for sure [19:37] <jaimedanser> haha, yeah [19:37] <fenixfelicis> i guess she used the alchemy to set her rules then [19:37] <LilaCatsfoot> I should know what vitriolic means...but I don't. Any help? [19:37] <Narya> And of course, DD was an alchemist and LV is the twisted alchemsit [19:38] <Narya> *alchemist [19:38] <Aislinn> acidic - nasty [19:38] <ProngsPatronus> acidic, lila [19:38] <LilaCatsfoot> Thanks - yes, absolutely! [19:38] *** Aquamarine has quit [Bye] [19:38] <MrMcGonagall> One of the major rules of magic is that "Magic cannot bring dead people back to life…. Once you're dead, you're dead." JKR has skirted around this issue in her books, with the Draught of Living Death, animated pictures, and the like. Do you believe this is an important rule? What would the Potterverse be like without this rule? [19:38] <Narya> DD worked with Nicolas Flamel, so there's the biggest alchemical reference right there [19:38] <jaimedanser> well, without that rule.... [19:38] <jaimedanser> deaths wouldn't mean anything [19:39] <mollywobbles23> exactly [19:39] <fenixfelicis> the fight between good & evil would be much more complicated [19:39] <jaimedanser> and Voldemort would always be there.... [19:39] <ProngsPatronus> or death would be more horrible than life [19:39] <Aislinn> Death is such an important theme throughout the series [19:39] <Narya> I think it's an important rule, but the DoLD intrigues me still - in setting the rule though, she established her parameters, and that's vital for any writer [19:39] <MrMcGonagall> I think this is an important rule. [19:39] <fenixfelicis> it would be difficult for people to move on, to progress [19:39] <jaimedanser> Aislinn-I'd say it's one of the main themes [19:39] <Mafalda> mm Imagine LV finding a way to bring Slytherin back from the goners... [19:39] <LilaCatsfoot> Yes, jaime, it would drain the meaning out of life if it weren't temporary and fragile. [19:39] <Aislinn> the tale would not be what it is, if people could be brought back to life [19:39] <fenixfelicis> and death sort of makes people more independent [19:39] <Aislinn> I think it is one of them, yes, jaime [19:39] <jaimedanser> Mafalda-haha [19:40] <fenixfelicis> the survivors i mean [19:40] <Aislinn> it is Harry's reaction to his parents' deaths, to sirius's, to Dd's, that have spurred him on in his quest [19:40] <Narya> And made him the man he is [19:40] <jaimedanser> Yea, exactly [19:40] <Mafalda> yeah, terrifying thought. No, the deads belong to some other esphera [19:40] <LilaCatsfoot> Like Dumbledore said, we wish so much for unlimited life and riches, yet that would be so bad for us. [19:40] <jaimedanser> That's what made him want to go after Voldemort so much [19:40] <Aislinn> yes, narya [19:40] <mollywobbles23> Do we even know what exactly happens to someone if they drink Draught of the Living Death? [19:41] <ProngsPatronus> not yet [19:41] <Narya> We don't know, but that's one thing I'm really keen to find out [19:41] <Aislinn> we don't yet, molly, but it will be interesting to find out [19:41] <LilaCatsfoot> I always think of Juliet. [19:41] <Mafalda> nop, molly, I think we don't [19:41] <Aislinn> I think we'll learn [19:41] <fenixfelicis> i hope we learn more in dh [19:41] <jaimedanser> sadly, we don't [19:41] <mollywobbles23> me too, Lila [19:41] <jaimedanser> I want to know [19:41] <MrMcGonagall> I'm sure we will fenix. [19:41] *** Velse has joined #lounge [19:41] <Narya> I definitely think we'll learn, and it'll be fascinating [19:41] <LilaCatsfoot> Remember when Dumbledore told Draco that they could hide his family? [19:41] <jaimedanser> yea.... [19:41] <LilaCatsfoot> Didn't he say something about making them seem to be dead? [19:42] <Narya> It's clearly important, since Snape mentioned it in his very first Potions lesson [19:42] <jaimedanser> Lila-yea, he did [19:42] <Narya> Yes he did, Lila [19:42] <Aislinn> hi velse [19:42] <Velse> Hi, Aislinn! [19:42] <MrMcGonagall> Speaking of the rules about Death, JKR informs us that "the happiest people do not become ghosts." What is it about happiness that prevents one from becoming a ghost? Can there be something else that would render a wizard ghostly other than unhappiness? [19:42] <LilaCatsfoot> And, Narya, Slughorn had them work on it too, didn't he? [19:42] <Narya> Yes he did [19:42] <mollywobbles23> I wonder if it means anything that the first potion that the Half-Blood Prince helps Harry make is DoLD? [19:42] <Velse> "The next great adventure" [19:42] <Mafalda> fear [19:43] <jaimedanser> fear of death probably [19:43] <Aislinn> fear [19:43] <mollywobbles23> unfinished business [19:43] <jaimedanser> wanting revenge [19:43] <Narya> Happy people are content to leave the world knowing that they have served their purpose and it's their time to go [19:43] <mollywobbles23> yeah, Myrtle proved that jaimedanser [19:43] <Velse> Right [19:43] <fenixfelicis> i wonder what professor binns was unhappy about. [19:43] <Narya> I wonder if guilt might render a wizard ghostly [19:43] <Aislinn> that is what nearly headless nick said - he was afraid of death [19:43] <Velse> I think Binns just never lived [19:43] <Narya> Or unfinished business, or having done something terrible [19:43] <jaimedanser> unhappy people want a chance to do their lives over again I think [19:43] <jaimedanser> so they become ghosts... [19:43] <MrMcGonagall> Happy people are not governed by fear. [19:43] <mollywobbles23> I think his was unfinished business. I think he just wanted to keep teaching. He didn't feel he was finished. [19:44] <jaimedanser> molly--I think he felt he hadn't taught everything he should [19:44] <Velse> No one ever finishes life, but we have to accept our limitations [19:44] <fenixfelicis> that's true binns was very dull [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> thing is, he teaches the same things every year [19:44] <mollywobbles23> I want to know why Nick got his head cut off and why the Bloody Baron is so bloody as a ghost. [19:44] <Velse> Think of Sirius, he was hardly finished! [19:44] <ProngsPatronus> nothing really new [19:44] <Velse> Yet he is not a ghost [19:44] <Aislinn> that's true, velse, he was not ready to go [19:45] *** huebbe has quit [Bye] [19:45] <Aislinn> but went in any event [19:45] <jaimedanser> No, but Sirius died a different way, didn't he? [19:45] <Mafalda> well, Sirius was no afraid of anything. In fact I think he seeked death [19:45] <Velse> Interesting [19:45] <jaimedanser> it wasn't the curse, it was falling through the veil [19:45] <fenixfelicis> sirius died protecting harry and i think that was appropriate [19:45] <Aislinn> he certainly didnt' try to avoid it, you're right mafalda [19:45] <Narya> He might not have been ready, but he would have been happy knowing that Harry was happy to keep up the fight for what was right [19:45] <jaimedanser> anyway, I think Sirius was happy enough with his life [19:46] <jaimedanser> It wasn't perfect, but... [19:46] <Velse> I don't really think he was happy [19:46] <Aislinn> and did not fear death [19:46] <jaimedanser> yeah, he definitely wasn't afraid to die [19:46] <Velse> But he was not the kind of person to blame others or give up his end of the burden [19:46] <jaimedanser> he proved that by comign to the MOM that night [19:46] <Velse> Right [19:46] <Narya> I think Sirius found happiness in Harry, despite having suffered from "arrested development" as JKR put it [19:46] <Velse> He was mature in that one way [19:46] <Velse> That he wanted to care for Harry [19:46] <fenixfelicis> i think sirius was happy to finally be doing what he truly wanted to be doing -- fighting alongside his comrades [19:47] <Velse> Be a good role model] [19:47] <Mafalda> yes Fenix [19:47] <jaimedanser> fenix-yeah, I really think he was [19:47] <LilaCatsfoot> mollywobbles, you asked about why Nick got his head cut off - there's something on JKR's site, I think aobut this [19:47] <jaimedanser> that's all he wanted to do [19:47] <ProngsPatronus> I think he was happy at the end--he got to make his mark protecting harry and the others [19:47] <Velse> I agree. Prongs [19:47] <MrMcGonagall> On Thestrals, JKR says: "I decided you had to have seen the death and allowed it to sink in a bit ..." Why do you think death has to "sink in" before one can see a Thestral? [19:47] <mollywobbles23> really? cool [19:47] <jaimedanser> he wanted to do something to help the fight against Voldemort [19:47] <Velse> Acceptance, going beyond denial? [19:47] <fenixfelicis> to give the survivor time to grieve [19:47] <jaimedanser> accepting the death, I think [19:47] <mdbennett> accepting one's death [19:48] <Mafalda> I think they symbolise understanding... [19:48] <LilaCatsfoot> I think it was also a writing issue: she didn't want to bring up Thestrals at the end of GoF. [19:48] <Narya> Death has to become real to the person, instead of just something to read about or to experience though another [19:48] <mollywobbles23> yeah, acceptance, I think it really had more to do with her not wanting to introduce a new Kreacher at the end of a book. [19:48] <jaimedanser> Lila-yes, she did say that [19:48] <Aislinn> I think there is a definite denial at first [19:48] <fenixfelicis> the last thing they need after the shock of death is the other shock of the thestral [19:48] <Aislinn> especially if it is something one has not experienced personally before [19:48] <LilaCatsfoot> No doubt, fenix [19:48] <fenixfelicis> seeing death must be a truly life changing experience [19:49] <ProngsPatronus> it is [19:49] <Narya> I think the physical form of the Thestral is meant to symbolise the fact that death isn't as scary as most people think, since Thestrals are pretty benign creatures in the books [19:49] <jaimedanser> But I really think that a person needed time to grieve before they saw a thestral [19:49] <jaimedanser> Narya-yes, I really think it is meant to do that [19:49] <jaimedanser> because everyone is afraid of thestrals, but they are really quite gentle [19:49] <Mafalda> but they are ugly at first [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> there is also a stage called denial of the death--and I think that, if one is in that stage of grief, that one would deny the thestrals, too [19:50] <Narya> It proves that perceptions aren't always accurate [19:50] <Velse> Thestrals are attracted to the smell of blood... [19:50] <jaimedanser> Narya-yep, it does =D [19:50] <Mafalda> I loved that Luna part [19:50] <Narya> And beauty, as they say, is only skin deep [19:50] <ProngsPatronus> they are carnivorous [19:50] <LilaCatsfoot> Ooh, good point, Prongs! [19:50] <Narya> Nature of the beast, PP [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> it is [19:51] <jaimedanser> Well, yes, they are, PP, but they don't attack people, now do they? [19:51] <Velse> I think they're based on Nightmares, the norse demon [19:51] <Velse> We're always afraid of the dark [19:51] <jaimedanser> they aren't monsters, people just see them as that [19:51] <fenixfelicis> or the unknown [19:51] <Velse> That doesn't mean it's truly dangerous, only that we feel unsafe and out of control [19:51] <ProngsPatronus> to me, thestrals are Night mares [19:51] <mollywobbles23> the unknown like death. [19:51] <jaimedanser> they're actually quite useful, because they can get you somewhere [19:51] <jaimedanser> without using a broom [19:51] <LilaCatsfoot> And they represent all of those things: death, the unknown, darkness, etc. [19:52] <Velse> Agreed [19:52] <mollywobbles23> and without you knowing exactly what direction to go [19:52] <Mafalda> Hagrid sees them? don't he? [19:52] <Narya> I'm not sure about Thestrals being nightmares - I still think they're quite benign and have a gentle nature [19:52] <Velse> Dreams are not all fun or happy! [19:52] <ProngsPatronus> yes, he does [19:52] <jaimedanser> Hagrid does, yea [19:52] *** tj2g has joined #lounge [19:52] <Mafalda> why? [19:52] <mollywobbles23> I'm sure he waw someone die [19:52] <mollywobbles23> saw [19:52] <ProngsPatronus> no--I meant exactly what I wrote--female creatures of the night [19:52] <jaimedanser> I think he saw his dad die? [19:52] <Aislinn> hi tj2g [19:52] <mollywobbles23> his father maybe [19:52] <mollywobbles23> and he was around during the first war [19:52] <tj2g> hola [19:53] <Velse> Night mares are a norse notion--a kind of demon [19:53] <fenixfelicis> didnt hagrid see petter pettigrew kill those 20 people? [19:53] <Velse> But JKR made it her own [19:53] <Mafalda> mm txs guys [19:53] <ProngsPatronus> his father, wwasn't it? [19:53] <mollywobbles23> no [19:53] <jaimedanser> fenix-no [19:53] <jaimedanser> he didn't... [19:53] <fenixfelicis> only he thought it was sirius [19:53] <Mafalda> hola Tj2g [19:53] <jaimedanser> he just said he wished he'd been there to kill Sirius [19:53] <Narya> And Pettigrew only killed 12, not 20 [19:53] <fenixfelicis> oh [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> B"They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore's office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. " [19:53] <MrMcGonagall> As you can guess, we are talking about the wonderful portraits in HP. Do you think this rule is as absolute as some of the others? What about the portrait of Phineas Nigellus—does he follow this rule? [19:54] <Aislinn> I think her statement here was quite misleading [19:54] <jaimedanser> hmm...well, Phineas doesn't exactly give counsel [19:54] <LilaCatsfoot> Phineas seems very much there - especially his reaction to the news that Sirius had died. [19:54] <Velse> I think its interesting that they are able to act and communicate about current events [19:54] <fenixfelicis> sure he does [19:54] <jaimedanser> he tends to criticize Dumbledore [19:54] <Narya> I think that Phineas is more "chatty" than the other portraits because - to me at least - he had quite a magnetic personality in life, and was probably quite a forceful wizard [19:54] <Mafalda> I think he does, but those portrais own their loyaltie to Hogwarts. Thye must have been bounded magically to do so [19:54] <Velse> The least popular HM of Hogwarts [19:54] <LilaCatsfoot> "Counsel" could include criticism. [19:54] <Aislinn> the portraits have much too much personality, decision making capability, and emotional reaction to things, to be mere imprints [19:55] <fenixfelicis> and criticism can be a form of 'counsel' [19:55] <jaimedanser> Ok, well if counsel includes criticism, then...yea [19:55] <Aislinn> the fat lady is quite chatty too [19:55] <Velse> And even gets drunk [19:55] <Narya> Constructive criticism, in Phineas's case [19:55] <Narya> Another magnetic personality! [19:55] <Narya> She is indeed [19:55] <jaimedanser> haha, yeah, that's funny [19:55] <Aislinn> right [19:55] <LilaCatsfoot> I suppose it could still be like a personality program that continues to run. [19:55] <fenixfelicis> i do think the portraits do seem to be like the living [19:55] <Velse> It must be peaceful, being a portrait [19:55] <jaimedanser> okay, but I don't quite understand how portraits are made [19:56] <LilaCatsfoot> Y'think? [19:56] <jaimedanser> are they just automatically made when someone dies? [19:56] <Mafalda> yes, jaime [19:56] <LilaCatsfoot> Not when every person dies, I imagine. [19:56] <jaimedanser> or do they have to have a portrait painted before they die? [19:56] <mollywobbles23> not just anyone, though [19:56] <Narya> I don't think I'd like to be a portrait - must be a bit strange having to hang on a wall all day [19:56] <tj2g> i dont think they are automatic for everyone though [19:56] <fenixfelicis> the hardest part for me is how the portraits can learn. they can keep up with current events and remember them later on. [19:56] <jaimedanser> well, no, not ANYONE [19:56] <Mafalda> I think it must be part of the magical stuff at Hogwarts, talking about the hogwarts ones... [19:56] <Velse> Maybe we'll find out if they remember their death? [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps it is a matter of critical mass [19:57] <Velse> And will DD have to counsel Minerval McG? [19:57] <LilaCatsfoot> I wonder if portraits at Hogwarts are more potent because the air is full of magic there. [19:57] <Velse> Tell her more than he did in life? [19:57] <fenixfelicis> but at least the portraits are usually sitting in comfortable chairs [19:57] <Narya> In what sense, PP? [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> the more portraits, the better, more vivid they are [19:57] <Velse> Interesting! [19:57] <mollywobbles23> like all that magic concentrated in the castle, seeps into the portraits? [19:57] <LilaCatsfoot> yes, molly [19:57] <Narya> The more "alive" they are, you mean? That would make sense [19:57] <ProngsPatronus> yes--and the activity from the other portraits, too [19:57] <Narya> Right [19:57] <Velse> It's like a Hogwarts spy network. [19:58] <Velse> I wonder if DD set it up? [19:58] <fenixfelicis> and maybe how powerful they were when living [19:58] <LilaCatsfoot> (Can I ask a movie question? Why do you think Filch was taking down the portraits?) [19:58] <Narya> I think the portrait system pre-dates DD [19:58] <ProngsPatronus> I think it has been there a long time [19:58] <jaimedanser> he was doing that to some in the book, too [19:58] <Aislinn> I think the portraits were one of the ways that DD kept such a close watch on Harry [19:58] <fenixfelicis> i dont know lila. he seemed to have a lot of fun teasing the inhabitants [19:58] <LilaCatsfoot> Was he, jaime? I didn't remember that. [19:58] <jaimedanser> It was the ones that Umbridge found obnoxious or dirty, I think [19:59] <mollywobbles23> really? I wasn't sure if it was in the book or not. It's been awhile. [19:59] <Velse> I thought it was because she thought they were inappropriate for young minds. [19:59] <LilaCatsfoot> The whole central area was clear of them. [19:59] <fenixfelicis> maybe cause he doenst like to clean them [19:59] <jaimedanser> Velse-something along those lines [19:59] <MrMcGonagall> This is a question Aislinn, our Fearless Leader, wanted to know! JKR: "I've used bits of what people used to believe worked magically just to add a certain flavor, but I've always twisted them to suit my own ends. I mean, I've taken liberties with folklore, um, to suit my plot." In what ways has Jo twisted folklore for her own ends? [19:59] <LilaCatsfoot> You could be right, jaime [19:59] <Mafalda> when he DD didn't a portrait appear on the room? didn't mcgonagall stared at it for a while? [19:59] <Narya> The Grim, for instance - springs immediately to mind [19:59] <LilaCatsfoot> Mafalda, I think he was sleeping. [20:00] <jaimedanser> yeah, definitely the Grim [20:00] <Velse> I think she's unified many different traditions (night mares, banshees, etc.) [20:00] <LilaCatsfoot> Hippogriffs, maybe? [20:00] <Mafalda> txs Lila [20:00] <fenixfelicis> i read somewhere that she changed the basilisk [20:00] <jaimedanser> and she twisted mermaids a lot... [20:00] <Narya> The Giant Squid - almost like Nessie [20:00] <ProngsPatronus> weasels and cocks are specifics for basilisks [20:00] <mollywobbles23> (side note: basilisk fears weasels as well as the cry of the rooster) [20:00] <Velse> House elves are like the shoemakers elf, not the Tolkein elves [20:00] <LilaCatsfoot> I really like her mermaids! [20:00] <jaimedanser> they don't seem quite as pretty now... [20:00] <jaimedanser> lol [20:00] <jaimedanser> I like them too, Lila [20:00] <Aislinn> I think it is so fascinating how much she seems to know about folklore and mythology, yet what a refreshing twist she puts on it in her own tale [20:01] <Velse> Centaurs are more similar to the original--proud, violent [20:01] <Velse> Her merpeopel are also more like the original celtic seelie folk [20:01] <LilaCatsfoot> Are centaurs usually thought to be knowledgeable about divinatin? [20:01] <Narya> Not all Centaurs were violent, though - Firenze definitely wasn't [20:01] <Velse> Not that I know of [20:01] <jaimedanser> Velse-well, yes, they are [20:01] <Velse> True, but they are j hunters (a la Sagitarrius) [20:01] <jaimedanser> but they aren't how most people see them I mean [20:01] <ProngsPatronus> yes, lila--they are the ones who taught the art to humans [20:01] <Narya> Just like the star sign, I know [20:01] <LilaCatsfoot> Didn't know that. [20:02] <Velse> Sorry, I meant in mythology were they diviners [20:02] <Velse> Not in HP [20:02] <LilaCatsfoot> I read a good story with a house elf in it: Hob and the Goblins. [20:02] <Narya> In Greek mythology, possibly - PP? [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> yes, velse [20:02] <LilaCatsfoot> Hob's job was to take care of the house and its inhabitants. [20:02] <Velse> Ah! [20:02] <ProngsPatronus> I was answering from the mythology angel [20:02] <Velse> You can never say thank you to an elf in the celtic stories, or they disappear [20:02] <Narya> Unicorns are from folklore and legend, too [20:03] <Velse> It's like the clothes [20:03] <mollywobbles23> interesting [20:03] <Velse> Unicorns were also a christian symbol of virtue and purity [20:03] <jaimedanser> velse-yes, I imagine that's where she got he idea [20:03] <Aislinn> oh really, velse? I didn't know that [20:03] <Narya> And her dragons, of course [20:03] <jaimedanser> but just changed it a little [20:03] <mollywobbles23> giants too [20:03] <fenixfelicis> the sorting hat is a funny twist [20:03] <mdbennett> Sphinx? [20:03] <LilaCatsfoot> Yeah, sphinxes are known for giving riddles, I think. [20:03] <Mafalda> i liked the sphinx [20:03] <mollywobbles23> The dementors look like Death [20:04] <jaimedanser> her sphinx is basically exactly what they are in mythology [20:04] <LilaCatsfoot> Yes, the grim reaper [20:04] <Velse> She has ghouls and hags as well [20:04] <jaimedanser> and she said the dementors were supposed to represent depression [20:04] <Velse> All the graveyard beasties [20:04] <mollywobbles23> do boggarts come from anything? [20:04] <Narya> A lot of JKR's herbology is based on folklore, too [20:04] <Velse> Yes, the bogie man is also called a boggart [20:04] <mollywobbles23> yeah, but they look like Death [20:04] <LilaCatsfoot> I've heard of boggarts, but they are like poltergeists. [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> lyes, they do, molly [20:04] <Velse> Unreasonable fear [20:04] <Aislinn> it is, narya, I've noticed that too [20:04] <ProngsPatronus> they are celtic folklore [20:04] <Velse> She doesn't have a Pooka, but she does have Peeves [20:04] <fenixfelicis> and the veela? [20:05] <Mafalda> and the mandragora [20:05] <Velse> I was wondering about Veela [20:05] <LilaCatsfoot> THey remind me of sirens [20:05] <Velse> Yes [20:05] <mollywobbles23> yes!~ [20:05] <jaimedanser> the veela were supposed to represent sirens, sort of [20:05] <mollywobbles23> I couldn't think of the name [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> the veela have a place, too--they are much like Harpies [20:05] <fenixfelicis> the leprechauns seem to be the same except i dont know if their gold is supposed to disappear [20:05] <Velse> That's true, when they get mad [20:05] <mollywobbles23> I was like "the things from The Odyssey..." [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> it is, fenix [20:05] <LilaCatsfoot> I wonder if there is an eastern European version of the veela. [20:05] <ProngsPatronus> it only lasts one night [20:05] <jaimedanser> molly-haha, yeah [20:05] <Narya> Leprachauns are very mischievous, so their gold disappears [20:06] <ProngsPatronus> I believe so [20:06] <LilaCatsfoot> Makes sense to me, Narya [20:06] <MrMcGonagall> Speaking of folklore, JKR has created some of her own-- the Sorting Hat. The author says this about the Sorting Hat: It has never been wrong. When the Hat speaks on its own, it speaks for the Founders. "The sorting hat is certainly sincere." Do you think the Sorting Hat has ever been wrong? Why? [20:06] <Velse> Fairy gold always disappears in celtic myth [20:06] <mollywobbles23> how many heads did the hydra have? [20:06] <Velse> 9 [20:06] <jaimedanser> Hmm...good question about the hat [20:06] <Velse> I think [20:06] <Narya> I don't think the Hat has ever been wrong - even though it seems to have made a couple of strange Sortings [20:06] <mollywobbles23> that's what I thought [20:06] <jaimedanser> I don't think it's ever been wrong This post has been edited by Aislinn: Jul 18 2007, 08:34 PM |
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Jul 18 2007, 08:36 PM
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Chief Cat Herder Posts: 3,514 Joined: 10:28am August 6, 2005 Location: In the Corner Booth - home of the elusive Holy Grain! |
[20:06] <mollywobbles23> if only twere 7
[20:06] <fenixfelicis> the sorting hat says things that are broad & vague so it could be interpreted different ways [20:06] <jaimedanser> It really seems to know what it's doing [20:06] <Velse> Might be [20:07] <fenixfelicis> so it could always be right [20:07] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has joined #lounge [20:07] <Velse> And the students can choose [20:07] <LilaCatsfoot> The think about sorting is that we are very different people at age 11 than we are ten or twenty years later. [20:07] <Velse> The choice is the test [20:07] <Aislinn> it is hard to understand some of the sortings [20:07] <Narya> I think the Hat is pretty accurate in what it says, actually [20:07] <fenixfelicis> reminds me of the centaurs [20:07] <Aislinn> like Peter [20:07] <mollywobbles23> I don't think it has ever been wrong. [20:07] <Narya> Peter springs to mind, yes [20:07] <tj2g> if its never been wrong then what about pettigrew [20:07] <jaimedanser> Lila-yes, we are [20:07] <Mafalda> interesting. I think of Peter Petegrew [20:07] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I don't really think the Hat has ever been really mistaken. [20:07] <Aislinn> hey chocolate [20:07] <jaimedanser> well, it's what Lila said [20:07] <LilaCatsfoot> Yes, Peter is a bit of a mystery. [20:07] <Velse> JKR believes that 11 year olds have a moral conscience (she was just quoted) [20:07] <mollywobbles23> just because someone is brave, doesn't mean they're good [20:07] <jaimedanser> People change [20:07] <fenixfelicis> what did the hat say about pettigrew [20:07] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey all... have any spoilers showed up here tonight? [20:07] <jaimedanser> Pettigrew...changed [20:07] <mollywobbles23> and just because someone is cunning, doesn't mean they're evil [20:08] <fenixfelicis> no choco [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> whew [20:08] <LilaCatsfoot> We've all been very good. [20:08] <MrMcGonagall> I think the Hat deals with a lot of potentialities. [20:08] <Aislinn> no, fortunately [20:08] *** schair_junkie has joined #lounge [20:08] <Aislinn> hi schair_junkie [20:08] <fenixfelicis> its scary out there isnt it choco [20:08] <schair_junkie> hi [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yes [20:08] <LilaCatsfoot> That's an interesting thought, MrMcG [20:08] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> what's the ? [20:08] <jaimedanser> hi shair [20:08] <jaimedanser> *schair [20:08] <tj2g> but pettigrew wasnt brave he was only following the biggest bully on the block...thats not brave [20:08] <Aislinn> we're talking about the Sorting Hat, and whether it is ever wrong [20:08] <LilaCatsfoot> You think it senses what people will become? [20:08] <Narya> I wonder why the Hat took such a long time to decide with Neville, when he's so clearly a Gryffindor [20:08] <Velse> I think the people choose [20:09] <LilaCatsfoot> It was thinking about Hufflepuff, I'd guess. [20:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, that's assuming there's a right answer... if it's based on choice, then it's possible people can choose incorrectly [20:09] <Velse> Consciously or unconsciously [20:09] <jaimedanser> Lila-I don't think it can do that [20:09] <Narya> Probably, Lila [20:09] <LilaCatsfoot> Velse, you may well be right [20:09] <Aislinn> probably because of his own hesitation, narya [20:09] <fenixfelicis> cause neville had a long way to go before we saw his 'gryffindor' [20:09] <ProngsPatronus> because I think it was neville's choice to be a gryffindor--I bet the hat wanted him in Hufflepuff [20:09] <Mafalda> I think Neville would have been great on Hufflepuff [20:09] <Narya> Mmmm, that too, Aislinn [20:09] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Aislinn [20:09] <Aislinn> he probably didn't feel confident enough to believe in his right to belong in Gryffindor [20:09] <LilaCatsfoot> I agree, Mafalda [20:09] <Velse> Neville is the most dynamic character in the book! [20:09] <mollywobbles23> I think Peter will do something brave, but not necessarily good, in DH [20:09] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i like the theory that the sorting hat is akin to a higher power... just like the "random" appearances of prophecies [20:09] <mollywobbles23> I really hate him. [20:09] <jaimedanser> Aislinn-yeah, he isn't very confident [20:09] <jaimedanser> brave, but...well, not confident [20:09] <Mafalda> but, I think the HAt sees the essence of a character and we are not all brave, all smart all cunning [20:10] <Aislinn> he is a lot more now, but certainly wasn't back then [20:10] <mollywobbles23> Being brave just means doing something even though you're scared to do it. [20:10] <LilaCatsfoot> Yeah [20:10] <Velse> Neville gets points for bravery in the very first book [20:10] <mollywobbles23> That could be any number of things [20:10] <Aislinn> he is a character that has grown so much throughout the years [20:10] <ProngsPatronus> I think we have each of the four houses within [20:10] <mollywobbles23> I love Neville so much. [20:10] <jaimedanser> I really like Neville =D [20:10] *** schair_junkie has quit [Bye] [20:10] <jaimedanser> He's amazing [20:10] <Velse> Me too, molly wobbles [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> there needs to be a house for creative people smile [20:10] <LilaCatsfoot> Me, too. [20:10] <ProngsPatronus> the hat picks the one that is closest to our hearts [20:10] <Aislinn> yes, Prongs, I agree [20:10] <jaimedanser> and I really don't want him to die [20:10] <Narya> I wonder if the fact that the Hat was once Godric's has any real significance [20:10] <Velse> JKR has really left out the arts! [20:10] <mollywobbles23> I want to shrink him and carry him around in my pocket [20:10] <Velse> Odd for a writer [20:10] <LilaCatsfoot> Yeah, choco, Hogwarts isn't strong on the arts [20:10] <Velse> True to your namesake, mollywobbles~ [20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i'd be in that house [20:11] <Velse> But he'd kick [20:11] <ProngsPatronus> which is strange, I think [20:11] <Aislinn> I thought there would be more with the arts, with the house song in the first book [20:11] <Narya> I don't think she did, Velse - I think the arts are throughout the Houses [20:11] <mollywobbles23> lol [20:11] <Velse> I don't see any evidence [20:11] <LilaCatsfoot> Dean Thomas is a good artist [20:11] <Narya> I do [20:11] <Velse> And there doesn't seem to be wizard art-- [20:11] <Velse> Ought to be, how cool! [20:11] <mollywobbles23> yep [20:11] <LilaCatsfoot> Hello, portraits? [20:11] <Aislinn> he is, lila, that's true [20:11] <mollywobbles23> then their are singers and bands [20:11] <Narya> Luna, for instance [20:11] <LilaCatsfoot> (NOt to be rude) [20:11] <jaimedanser> yeah, and dean... [20:11] <Velse> But the portraits seem to come out of nowhere... [20:11] <Narya> Dean too [20:11] <jaimedanser> there are definitely wizard arts [20:11] <Velse> Anyway, it isn't taught as such [20:11] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> there are musicians... and music is obviously magical.. there's a music box that puts people to sleep... phoenix song... dumbledore loves chamber music [20:11] <mollywobbles23> they are just not controlled by their pop culture like Muggles [20:12] <jaimedanser> i think it's supposed to be a natural talent [20:12] <Narya> That's a good point, Chocolate [20:12] <jaimedanser> Not something you can learn at Hogwarts [20:12] <Velse> What about the "Cauldron of Hot Burning Love?" [20:12] <mollywobbles23> huh? [20:12] <Velse> Celestina Warbeck [20:12] <Velse> Her song [20:12] <LilaCatsfoot> I wonder if they are just so busy with the magical "arts" that they don't have time for fine arts, etc. [20:12] <mollywobbles23> oh yeah [20:12] <Velse> MOlly loves it [20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hehe, i think that was just for comic relief, velse smile [20:12] <mollywobbles23> I was thinking it was a smut novel or something [20:12] <mollywobbles23> lol [20:12] <Velse> Yes, me too smile [20:12] <Narya> Art takes many forms - it doesn't always have to stick to "tradition" [20:12] <MrMcGonagall> One of the most visible denizens of Hogwarts is Peeves. "Peeves isn't a ghost; he was never a living person. He is an indestructible spirit of chaos, and solid enough to unscrew chandeliers, throw walking sticks and, yes, chew gum." Even Dumbledore cannot get rid of Peeves. We know that Peeves is a poltergeist---why do you think Peeves is there? Why do you think he is afraid of the Bloody Baron? [20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe the arts are more like a talent, and not like a piece of character, like bravery or loyalty or ambition [20:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> a person can be brave, loyal or ambitious, but also artistic [20:13] <Velse> Agreed. choco [20:13] <LilaCatsfoot> Good point, choco, about talent [20:13] <Aislinn> I think that members of any house could excel in arts, yes chocolate [20:13] <mollywobbles23> I like the theory that Peeves will exist as long as hormonal teenagers return every year [20:13] <jaimedanser> molly, yeah, I like that theory, too [20:13] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hahaha mollywobbles!!! [20:13] <Velse> Peeves is not invulnerable. He also runs away from Lupin and McGonagall [20:13] <Narya> Peeves is there because he's part of the fabric of Hogwarts - to show that some things just can't be magicked away [20:13] <Aislinn> I think he is a wonderfully amusing poltergeist [20:13] <LilaCatsfoot> Yeah, he probably is a distillation of teenage troublemaking [20:13] <Mafalda> mm maybe Bloody Baron has some srt of authority ratter than understanding like DD has. I think Peeves is there for humor... [20:13] <fenixfelicis> maybe the bloody baron knows something about peeves [20:13] <Velse> Where there are that many pubescent people, there have to be poltergeists [20:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe the bloody baron knows a way to get rid of peeves? [20:14] <jaimedanser> I think maybe peeves is all of the emotions of the students [20:14] <Velse> Or just to hurt him [20:14] <Narya> As for being afraid of the Baron, there's probably something in the Baron's history which is truly frightening, scary enough even for Peeves [20:14] <Velse> Exactly, jaime [20:14] <LilaCatsfoot> I'd hate to see Peeves go [20:14] <Mafalda> nice thought jaime [20:14] <fenixfelicis> the other ghosts in the castle tend to revere the bloody baron also, dont they? [20:14] <Velse> So would everybody; we all have a bit of Peeves inside us [20:14] <jaimedanser> fenix, yeah, they do [20:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> they respect him, fenix... they never ask about his life [20:14] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> not that we know of anyway [20:15] <fenixfelicis> maybe word just got around not to mess with the bloody baron [20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> "how did he get all bloody?" "I've never asked" Nearly Headless Nick said delicately [20:15] <jaimedanser> I think so [20:15] <jaimedanser> It's just respect, probably [20:15] <Narya> I often wonder what is so fascinating about the Astronomy Tower, and why the Baron "clanks around" on it! [20:16] <mollywobbles23> hmm [20:16] <Velse> He seems the type who would think clanking in towers is proper ghost behavior [20:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder how he clanks... if ghosts can affect physical objects, can't they still be dangrous to living things? [20:16] <tj2g> so his translucent body can bask in the moonlight [20:16] <Narya> I think that's a definite, chocolate [20:16] <jaimedanser> yeah, I agree, choco [20:17] <Mafalda> yeah they can. See Murtle annoyign that girl...but she was forbidden of hauting her...so gosths can be forbidden somehow [20:17] <mollywobbles23> maybe he just likes the stars [20:17] <Narya> And of course there's the silvery stains on him - interesting [20:17] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I wonder why ghosts aren't used as spies... they can go invisible and can penetrate walls... although they can also be affected by magic, as we saw with nearly headless nick in CoS [20:17] <jaimedanser> choco-I think it's the idea that ghe ghosts aren't brave enough [20:17] <fenixfelicis> ghosts dont seem to be very trustworthy [20:17] <MrMcGonagall> Dumbledore, Headmaster of Hogwarts, leader of the Order of the Phoenix, "speaks for" JKR. When she wants something known, she gets either Dumbledore or Hermione to say it. Why these two characters? Do you think that the author has ever deliberately mislead us through these two characters? [20:17] <jaimedanser> Nick said that choosing to become a ghost is very cowardly [20:17] <LilaCatsfoot> I think they are both so knowledgeable that it makes sense that they would know things. [20:18] <Aislinn> I think that Dumbledore symbolizes wisdom [20:18] <mollywobbles23> they can believably give exposition without betraying their character's traits [20:18] <Velse> Hermione was dead wrong about Draco throughout HBP, and possible DD as well about Snape [20:18] <Aislinn> and Hermione knowledge [20:18] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think everything that comes out of their mouths is necessarily infallible. [20:18] <Narya> DD is "the epitome of goodness" according to JKR, and Hermione is supposed to be an accurate part of what she was when she was younger [20:18] <jaimedanser> Hermione and Dumbledore have both been wrong about things [20:18] <Mafalda> yes, MrM, I agree [20:18] <Narya> I don't think either of them have misled the readers, no [20:18] <LilaCatsfoot> She doesn't have to explain how Hermione knows about various things, cause she undoubtably read it. [20:18] <Velse> They only know what they know, like any human, they just use their knowledge well [20:18] *** Joyhawk2121 has joined #lounge [20:18] <Aislinn> hi Joyhawk2121 [20:18] <fenixfelicis> is hermione like a younger dd then? [20:18] <Joyhawk2121> Hello everyone [20:18] <jaimedanser> fenix-good thought. Maybe [20:18] <Velse> Hermione isn't a leader, really [20:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think that people trust Dumbledore too much, personally. It wasn't until I was reading about some theories that I started questioning Dumbledore's trustworthiness, especially when it comes to the whole Grindelwald thing [20:18] <Narya> I think Hermione is a younger JKR [20:18] <mollywobbles23> They are the Giles's of the wizarding world [20:18] <Aislinn> they are not infallible - I don't think that is what Jo was saying [20:18] <mollywobbles23> lol [20:19] <Narya> I don't distrust DD at all, especially not given what JKR said about him [20:19] <jaimedanser> oh, I have a thread about whether or not we should trust Dumbledore that much [20:19] <Aislinn> oh, I completely disagree chocolate [20:19] <fenixfelicis> cant she be boht narya [20:19] <mdbennett> Hemione=head (black and white), DD=heart (greys) [20:19] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he had to have become wise somehow... and he's a really old guy... wisdom comes from making mistakes [20:19] <Narya> It's quite different to say he was wrong about some things, that's just part of human nature [20:19] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione tends to provide incredibly useful book knowledge and a more accurate grasp of people's emotions. Dumbledore has the moral wisdom. [20:19] <fenixfelicis> i mean both [20:19] <Velse> Interesting mdbennett [20:19] <LilaCatsfoot> I think Dumbledore is almost always right, but not 100%. I wonder if he is right about the Horcruxes... [20:19] <Aislinn> I think he is very very trustworthy [20:19] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M, exactly [20:20] <Narya> I also think DD is very intuitive, Mr McG [20:20] <fenixfelicis> moral wisdom that comes with age? [20:20] <MrMcGonagall> Dumbledore has seen much more of life than Hermione. [20:20] <Narya> Age, and experience [20:20] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Narya. [20:20] <Velse> DD seems to have had insight fairly young--Tom Riddle, eg. [20:20] <jaimedanser> I remember that Dumbledore said that his mistakes were bigger than most, seeing as he was a "cleverer man than most" [20:20] *** hrh7 has joined #lounge [20:20] <jaimedanser> so I don't completely trust him [20:20] <Velse> Yes, he's very smart [20:20] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, that's DD's flaw. [20:20] <Aislinn> and a set of values that includes personal choice and responsibility [20:20] <Aislinn> hi hrh [20:20] <ProngsPatronus> hey, hrh [20:20] <hrh7> Hi [20:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think dumbledore's best sense has been the ability to predict things.... he knows how people will react to information, how they will act when they are confronted by someone else, and what they will or will not do [20:20] *** readsi3k has joined #lounge [20:20] <Velse> His values and his insights are great strengths [20:21] <Aislinn> hi readsi3k [20:21] <jaimedanser> even very wise people make mistakes, and they are usually bigger than most people's mistakes [20:21] <Narya> I trust anyone who loves with their whole heart, as DD did - I think that's quite apparent in how JKR has written the character [20:21] <readsi3k> hello [20:21] <Aislinn> yes they are velse [20:21] <Aislinn> I agree, Narya [20:21] *** memyslfnI has joined #lounge [20:21] <MrMcGonagall> Definitely. [20:21] <Aislinn> hi Me [20:21] <Velse> I think the whole nature of trust is accepting fallibility in others [20:21] <Velse> Otherwise who will you trust? [20:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> do you think Dumbledore has ever gone past a mistake, and actually made bad choices? mistakes are like accidents... has dumbledore ever made an outright bad choice? [20:21] <Mafalda> hello there! [20:22] <ProngsPatronus> (((M))) [20:22] <Aislinn> we're talking about how Jo has said that she speaks through Dumbledore and Hermione, and why that is [20:22] <MrMcGonagall> Children who come to Hogwarts are, in some cases, experiencing magic for the first time. JKR says that magical children are, for the most part, educated at home because their magical abilities could not be hidden. Do you think this is a good system? Do you think there should be a Wizarding elementary school? [20:22] <Narya> I don't think he's made a bad choice - I think he berates himself at times, just like he did in OotP [20:22] <Aislinn> when he was young, I'm sure he did chocolate [20:22] <Velse> Home schooling in this case doesn't seem to have harmed the wizard kids [20:22] <jaimedanser> hmm...maybe a wizarding elementary school wouldn't be a bad idea [20:22] <mollywobbles23> no, they're all so spread out across the country and they shouldn't live at school that young [20:22] <fenixfelicis> i think it is good for magical children to have exposure to muggles [20:22] <jaimedanser> some parents probably have better things to do [20:23] <LilaCatsfoot> It seems like it would be hard for all of them to do home schooling, and yet, hard to have them in regular school. [20:23] <Aislinn> home schooling is an effective means of teaching children [20:23] <Narya> I think home schooling works pretty well, but an elementary school would be good too [20:23] <Velse> Also they can't travel anywhere. It would have to be done in the fireplace [20:23] <memyslfnI> I think that (as a former insurance underwriter) they have totally avoided a huge exposure. LOL [20:23] <Aislinn> magic is such a practical skill [20:23] *** crom has joined #lounge [20:23] <Aislinn> hi crom [20:23] <tj2g> can you imagine a 5 year old with a temper in a magical elementary school??? no thank you [20:23] <Velse> Haha memyselfny [20:23] <mollywobbles23> plus, it helps put Muggle-borns on slightly more even ground if their classmates haven't gone to school already for years [20:23] <memyslfnI> This way parents can deal with the use of magic [20:23] <jaimedanser> molly-yeah, that's true [20:23] <mollywobbles23> together* [20:23] <crom> hi [20:24] <memyslfnI> accidentally [20:24] <Velse> Actually you'd think the wizard kids would have trouble with all the structure [20:24] <LilaCatsfoot> It would be good for them to be around Muggles, though. [20:24] <tj2g> true muggles have been to school for years prior [20:24] <Velse> I agree Lila [20:24] <ProngsPatronus> I am not sure, really [20:24] <jaimedanser> Lila-well, that depends... [20:24] <ProngsPatronus> I think some are better teachers than others [20:24] <Velse> I think its odd that they know so little about muggles [20:24] <readsi3k> the whole thing is based around the British (muggle) schooling system, where after elementary you go to high school at 11, sit GCSE (OWLs) at 16 and then go into higher education at after that for 2 years (NEWT's) [20:24] <fenixfelicis> bye all, thanks! [20:25] <jaimedanser> if they come from a family that hates muggles, it might not be [20:25] <LilaCatsfoot> bye! [20:25] <jaimedanser> bye, fenix! [20:25] <readsi3k> bye [20:25] <LilaCatsfoot> Well, sure, jaime [20:25] <hrh7> Like any school it can only be as good as its teachers. Some parents are good teachers but Draco could have benefitted from a school [20:25] <ProngsPatronus> bye, fenix [20:25] *** fenixfelicis has quit [Bye] [20:25] <mollywobbles23> I think if all wizarding children went to Muggle primary school, then the Muggle-community would think there was some kind of epidemic with all the unexplained incidents caused by accidental magic. [20:25] <Velse> It would help heal the hatred if they knew muggles [20:25] <Velse> true, mollywobbles [20:25] <LilaCatsfoot> It just starts to sound like segregation or separating out kids with disabilities [20:25] <jaimedanser> yea, draco definitely would've benefitted... [20:26] <readsi3k> magic is probably very difficult to control at a young age like that [20:26] <Velse> ciao, all, got to go! [20:26] <Velse> Great chatting with you! [20:26] <LilaCatsfoot> I know it would be really hard to do, because of the magical accidnets. [20:26] <ProngsPatronus> I think that the secret would be hard to keep [20:26] <readsi3k> i reckon draco will get in in DH [20:26] *** Velse has quit [Bye] [20:26] <jaimedanser> bye, velse! [20:26] <mollywobbles23> at least with only Muggle-borns going, it is a fair bit less likely to be dwelled upon [20:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it seems like wizard parents would be ill-equipped to teach their children reading comprehension and elementary math [20:26] <LilaCatsfoot> Bye, Velse [20:26] <ProngsPatronus> but I think an elementary school would be great [20:26] <crom> bye [20:26] <LilaCatsfoot> I agree, choco [20:26] <MrMcGonagall> One of the magical devices we have seen Dumbledore use is the Pensieve. Pensieves "recreate" the entire reality of the memory and are free of any personal interpretations or biases. Even things not initially noticed are recorded. Why is this one of the rules? [20:26] <mollywobbles23> I don't think so, choco [20:26] <readsi3k> i already accidnetally decuced a death reading a paper today about betting odds sad (not draco) [20:26] <memyslfnI> But if they are not seperated, there is a danger of exposure. I wonder if there is a law in the secrecy act that says they must be home schooled [20:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it's convenient to the plot... lol [20:27] <mollywobbles23> yeah [20:27] <mollywobbles23> lol [20:27] <Aislinn> I would LOVE to have a pensieve [20:27] <jaimedanser> yeah, it definitely is [20:27] <memyslfnI> it takes ou the befet of the doubt for the reader [20:27] <mollywobbles23> It's magic! [20:27] <ProngsPatronus> I think that our memories are mre fragmented than we think they are [20:27] <jaimedanser> it makes it so that the reader learns the whole story, I suppose [20:27] <Narya> I think the objectivity of the Pensieve is its strength - although I must admit I still find it hard to accept that Snape's "worst memory" was truly his worst, given his history as a DE [20:27] <LilaCatsfoot> It helps us trust what we see in the pensieve [20:27] <ProngsPatronus> we remember bits and pieces, and fill in the blanks [20:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> unless he wasn't a DE who did anything that bad, narya smile [20:28] <Mafalda> I love pensieve, I think it was used to testify, cause you can tell when a memory is fake [20:28] <Narya> we'll see! [20:28] <Aislinn> erm, yeah, that's unlikely [20:28] <LilaCatsfoot> It would create a whole set of problems if the pensieve memory was affected by our attitudes and expectations [20:28] <jaimedanser> Lila, yea, that's definitely true [20:28] <ProngsPatronus> or unless he is still so emotionally stunted that death is not as bad as humiliation [20:28] <readsi3k> until i read Melissa and Emersons interview I thought that the pensieve only gave the persons perspective [20:28] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think the Pensieve would be nearly as useful to the story if it didn't record every detail, even the subconscious ones. [20:28] <Aislinn> I think that being humiliated can be the very worse thing for some people [20:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed, mrmcg [20:28] <memyslfnI> I agree Mr M [20:28] <LilaCatsfoot> Of course, it is completely unlike our actual memories which are very skewed. [20:29] <mollywobbles23> and we all know how Snape can hold a grudge [20:29] <Narya> Objectivity rather than subjectivity, Mr McG? [20:29] <jaimedanser> yea, Mr. M, that's definitely true as well [20:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and it makes it that much cooler!! we can revisit what we remember if we just sit and think really hard, but being able to view them again as an objective viewer is priceless [20:29] <LilaCatsfoot> No doubt, choco [20:29] <mollywobbles23> I need a pensieve. I have a horrible memory [20:29] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, if the Pensieve isn't objective, it's not really very helpful. [20:29] <LilaCatsfoot> I bet they are hard to get ahold of. [20:30] <memyslfnI> I wonder if a memory is removed, it is forgotten by the subject who removed it? [20:30] <tj2g> snapes worst memory was only a memory that he did not want harry to see....his worst memory with harry in the room [20:30] <jaimedanser> oh, I want one, too! Just to keep some things safe! [20:30] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder if the pensieve, like the time turner, is regulated by the ministry of magic? They DO have a brain room with memories... i could imagine a room full of pensieves and bottled memories behind one of the many brain room doors [20:30] <mollywobbles23> yeah, I know I don't want my students to see me in my skivvies [20:30] <jaimedanser> choco-I think that makes a lot of sense [20:30] <LilaCatsfoot> I don't think so, me [20:30] <memyslfnI> I like that chocolate! [20:30] <jaimedanser> not just anyone should be able to have a pensieve [20:30] <crom> i think the pensieves memorie is just a backup [20:31] <hrh7> I don't think so, mem, Slughorn still had his memory. [20:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> how could someone abuse a pensieve, do you think? [20:31] <Aislinn> it doesn't seem to be, me [20:31] <Aislinn> right, hrh7, that was what I was thinking of also [20:31] *** jaimedanser has quit [Bye] [20:31] <readsi3k> theyre just a slightly cooler version of CCTV [20:31] <LilaCatsfoot> I would just think that it is a rare and valuable object, rather than a restricted one. [20:31] <ProngsPatronus> I think one could abuse a pensieve if one stole memories from someone else [20:31] <Narya> I'm tempted to say that someone with enough magical talent could subvert a Pensieve [20:31] <MrMcGonagall> What would a witch or wizard be without his/her wand? We know, from Ollivander, that the wand "chooses" the wizard. The author states that wand cores are specific to the country in which they are made; Fleur Delacour, for instance, has veela hair in her wand. What other substances do you think would make good wand cores? What attributes would they have? [20:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> stealing other peoples memories? if voldemort got a pensieve, would he be able to steal memories? do memories have to be willingly given, or is that the only way DUmbledore wants them to be given? [20:31] <ProngsPatronus> and replayed them in the pensieve [20:32] *** pineromartin has joined #lounge [20:32] <Aislinn> interesting question [20:32] <Aislinn> hi pineromartin [20:32] <pineromartin> hi [20:32] <mollywobbles23> well we know they use unicorn hair, dragon heartstring, phoenix, and veela hair...what else??.... [20:32] <Narya> Very interesting - substances would have to be good matches with the wand woods, of course [20:32] <mollywobbles23> hmmm [20:32] <Aislinn> we are just starting to talk about wand cores [20:32] <MrMcGonagall> I wonder if there are types of magical plants that could be used. [20:33] <mollywobbles23> dragon whisker? [20:33] <Aislinn> yes, it seems to be a combination with the wood chosen, narya [20:33] <LilaCatsfoot> I like it, molly! [20:33] <tj2g> i like this subject lol....how about for north america a hair from big foot's foot? [20:33] <memyslfnI> lethafold hair??? That would be wierd [20:33] <Narya> Like a Venomous Tentacula, maybe? [20:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think in the US there would be some kind of American Indian magical core... I like to think that the witch doctors or indian healers of the past were witches and wizards [20:33] <Aislinn> I wonder if Kneazle fur would make a good wand core [20:33] <ProngsPatronus> what about a sea serpent? [20:33] <LilaCatsfoot> Demiguise fur would be wild. [20:33] <Narya> Ewww, PP [20:33] <memyslfnI> mermaid scales [20:33] <mollywobbles23> *gets out trusty "schoolbooks"* [20:33] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> nice one prongs smile a kelpie? [20:34] <ProngsPatronus> yes [20:34] <ProngsPatronus> water magic [20:34] <memyslfnI> fire salamander! [20:34] <MrMcGonagall> It would have to be something thin enough to go into a wand. [20:34] <memyslfnI> Something that represents each element [20:34] <LilaCatsfoot> That is what is making me pause. [20:34] <readsi3k> branching off on wands a bit, a theory i had that i havent seen on the forums (but I daresay its there somewhere) is that Ollivander was taken because LV believed he could help him solve the mystery of Priori Incantenem [20:34] <mollywobbles23> demiguise fur or hair? [20:34] <mollywobbles23> that would be interesting [20:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder if the core must be from a living creature? Redwood Trees in california are extremely tall and old... what if they had magic in them that was strong enough to be magical? [20:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> for a wand/ [20:35] *** Mafalda has quit [Bye] [20:35] <ProngsPatronus> I think that rewoods would make excellent wand wood [20:35] <mollywobbles23> me too [20:35] <LilaCatsfoot> Me too [20:35] <memyslfnI> I wonder if they can use some stones, such as agate for a wand? [20:35] <LilaCatsfoot> Hmmm [20:35] <ProngsPatronus> or emerald... [20:35] <pineromartin> that would be cool [20:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> jewels are often used in other books as magical stores [20:35] <tj2g> that would be a heavy wand [20:35] <memyslfnI> polished, they certainly would be beautiful [20:36] *** jaimedanser has joined #lounge [20:36] <LilaCatsfoot> It seems like stones would maybe be used to channel magic, but not shaped like a wand. [20:36] <jaimedanser> back [20:36] <jaimedanser> sorry... [20:36] <jaimedanser> what are we discussing? [20:36] <LilaCatsfoot> Glad you're back, jaime [20:36] <ProngsPatronus> I wonder if tghey use the parts from Vampyres in Romania... [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe bones? i wonder if a wand could be made of bone? [20:36] <LilaCatsfoot> Cores for wands [20:36] <jaimedanser> okay =D [20:36] <pineromartin> maybe antlers [20:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i like that pineromartin [20:36] <LilaCatsfoot> That would be cool, pine [20:36] <memyslfnI> oooh pine I like that [20:36] <hrh7> Interesting question, readsi3k [20:36] <jaimedanser> good idea, pine [20:37] <crom> i think thats a deff posibilty taht wands could be made with bone core [20:37] <mollywobbles23> just flipping through Fantastic Beasts and happened upon gryffins. Apparently they are used to guard treasure...Gringotts, anyone? [20:37] <Narya> I'd hang on to those antlers tightly, PP ... [20:37] *** readsi3k has quit [Bye] [20:37] <Aislinn> lol, narya [20:37] <ProngsPatronus> lol--you betcha! [20:37] <Narya> LOL [20:37] <MrMcGonagall> What do you think the relationship is between an Animagus form and a Patronus? [20:37] <jaimedanser> lol, yea, PP [20:37] <Aislinn> oh, hippogriff feathers or hair would make for an interesting wand core [20:37] <Narya> A close relationship, I'd say [20:38] *** MrMcGonagall has quit [Bye] [20:38] <mollywobbles23> Animagus reflects your personality, but Patronus reflects your spirit [20:38] <jaimedanser> hmm...well, can't you choose your animagus? [20:38] <mollywobbles23> Tonks Patronus changed [20:38] <Aislinn> I think that the animagus form represents an aspect of the wizard's personality [20:38] <memyslfnI> I would say too. I wish we knew what the marauders patronuses were [20:38] <mollywobbles23> 's* [20:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I feel like animagus forms are less of a form of personality, and more of somethign that's chosen by a "higher power" like the sorting hat, in a way [20:38] <Aislinn> yes, molly, I'd agree with that [20:38] *** Alchemist has joined #lounge [20:38] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [20:38] <ProngsPatronus> you cannot change an am nimagus form [20:38] <Narya> You can't choose your Animagus form, no [20:38] <jaimedanser> but then your patronus is just automatically something [20:38] <Aislinn> hi alchemist [20:38] <NYBookworm> I think Animagus is who the person is, but patronus is what makes you feel safe and happy? [20:39] <Alchemist> HI ALL HER FOR A SEC sorry caps [20:39] <jaimedanser> really? [20:39] <ProngsPatronus> hey, AL! [20:39] <mollywobbles23> I wonder if Harry's Patronus will ever change? [20:39] <Alchemist> I think it will [20:39] <Narya> I don't think so, molly [20:39] <Aislinn> since the patronus is meant to protect, NYB, that makes sense [20:39] <memyslfnI> I don't either [20:39] <jaimedanser> hmm...well, then I think the animagus is your personality, and the patronus is like your emotional state [20:39] <pineromartin> yeah maybe after dumbledores death [20:39] <ProngsPatronus> I think the patronuis comes from the heart [20:40] <crom> yeah manybe pine [20:40] <Narya> Agreed, PP [20:40] *** tj2g left #lounge [Leaving] [20:40] <jaimedanser> PP-yeah, I agree [20:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i sometimes think that the three animals of the marauders were intelligently chosen by a higher power... the two large ones could keep Lupin in check, and wormtail allowed for them to go to the shreiking shack... if it hadn't been for their forms, they wouldn't have been able to wander the grounds, and wouldn't have made the marauder's map, which has been VITAL in Harry's story [20:40] <memyslfnI> I wonder if the animagus reflects your spirit and your patronus reflects your soul [20:40] <ProngsPatronus> and there fore is subject to emotional upheaval [20:40] <Narya> It's so much the sense of self and who the wizard is [20:40] <mollywobbles23> I think animagus reflects your personality [20:40] <Alchemist> nice M [20:40] <mollywobbles23> James was a proud stag [20:40] <mollywobbles23> Sirius was a loyal dog [20:40] *** readsi3k has joined #lounge [20:40] *** readsi3k has quit [Bye] [20:40] <mollywobbles23> and Peter was a rat [20:40] <jaimedanser> haha, yea Molly [20:40] <Aislinn> I think that their animagus forms were based on aspects of their personality - Sirius was definitely defined by his loyalty, just as many dogs are [20:41] *** testing has joined #lounge [20:41] <ProngsPatronus> hey, testing [20:41] <Narya> And James by his protector qualities, and also his loyalty [20:41] <mollywobbles23> now, Ron's Patronus is a dog. I wonder if he became an animagus, if it would be that too? [20:42] <memyslfnI> if anyone will become an animagus, I think Hermione will. [20:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> wouldn't they see "um, wormtail's a rat? we should drop him like a bad habit" [20:42] <Alchemist> yes Ron is loyal to harry and family [20:42] <mollywobbles23> lol [20:42] <ProngsPatronus> a stag is the leader of the herd, and has to have a strong mind [20:42] <pineromartin> I wonder could you become a dragon animagus? [20:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't think that James and Lily would have trusted Peter with their secret, if they thought that animagus forms were determied by personality [20:42] <mollywobbles23> I don't think so [20:42] <Alchemist> but how does hermoine otter work? [20:42] <ProngsPatronus> James was the leader, I think, and Sirius was his loyal brother-in-spirit [20:42] <Aislinn> I had a rat as a pet - they are not always negative [20:42] <mollywobbles23> I don't think an animagus form can be a magical creature [20:42] <hrh7> Didn't they choose the animagus for that reason, because of Remus? I thought they said that so doesn't that mean you can choose? [20:42] <jaimedanser> be right back... [20:43] <memyslfnI> I did too Aislinn. they are very intellegent animans [20:43] <mollywobbles23> you don't choose your animagus form [20:43] <MrMcGonagall> In their fifth year, Hermione and Ron become Prefects, with the ability to take points from students. Do you think prefects ought to have this power? Why? [20:43] <Aislinn> they didn't choose what they became, hrh [20:43] <memyslfnI> and peter is no dummy, he is cunning [20:43] <Aislinn> right Me [20:43] <ProngsPatronus> they chose to learn to be animagi, but they did not pick their form [20:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha points are so dumb [20:43] <Narya> I think the prefects should have this power, so long as it's not abused, as in Malfoy's case [20:43] <jaimedanser> I think they should... [20:43] <memyslfnI> If they are chosen carefully [20:43] <mollywobbles23> only for their house [20:43] <mollywobbles23> otherwise it can be abused [20:43] <Aislinn> I think that prefects act as a vital part of the school's discipline system [20:44] <LilaCatsfoot> At the school where I work, I wouldn't ask students to be in charge of penalizing other students. [20:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i'd give my house SO manypoints [20:44] <jaimedanser> If they are chosen for being trusting, then why not? [20:44] <LilaCatsfoot> But it seems like it's part of the boarding school culture. [20:44] <crom> can they also give points? [20:44] <mollywobbles23> probably not [20:44] <mollywobbles23> then it would be abused like crazy [20:44] *** Alchemist has quit [Bye] [20:44] <jaimedanser> i don't think so, crom [20:44] <Joyhawk2121> I think you have to trust that the Prefects will not abuse that power [20:44] <pineromartin> Ron and Hermione cant take points, they can only give detention i think [20:44] <mollywobbles23> except for people like Hermione or Percy [20:44] <LilaCatsfoot> I guess the idea is that you choose students who would be responsible. [20:44] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i thought that malfoy was only given that power after being part of the inquisitorial squad?? [20:44] <crom> yeah pine [20:44] <jaimedanser> they'd just give points and points.... [20:45] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> they weren't allowed to before then, right? [20:45] <crom> it was the inqiastor squad [20:45] <Narya> Percy could take points, though, so all prefects have that power [20:45] <jaimedanser> choco-see, that confuses me [20:45] <LilaCatsfoot> I think JKR addressed this on her site: prefects can't take points from other students. [20:45] *** testing has quit [Bye] [20:45] <Narya> No, Percy could [20:45] <pineromartin> Percy was headboy [20:45] <jaimedanser> cause Percy took points in Chamber of secrets [20:45] <mollywobbles23> he wasn't headboy, then though [20:45] <jaimedanser> pine-no, not in CoS [20:45] <LilaCatsfoot> I just typed that wrong: they cant' take points from other prefects [20:45] <LilaCatsfoot> Soryy [20:45] <mollywobbles23> not until POA [20:45] <LilaCatsfoot> I cannot type!!! [20:45] <ProngsPatronus> JKR did address the point, and said that Ron had got it wrong--prefects can take points [20:45] <crom> oh [20:45] <LilaCatsfoot> Just not from other prefects [20:46] *** Belenzie has joined #lounge [20:46] <MrMcGonagall> Hi, Belenzie! [20:46] <jaimedanser> yeah, see...Ron just doesn't care about his powers... [20:46] <Belenzie> hey [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> 'It's only teachers who can dock points from houses, Malfoy,' said Ernie at once. [20:46] <jaimedanser> he's not exactly a great prefect [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> 'Yeah, we're prefects, too, remember?' snarled Ron. [20:46] *** testing has joined #lounge [20:46] <LilaCatsfoot> I think JKR said that was a mistake. [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> 'I know prefects can't dock points, Weasel King,' sneered Malfoy. Crabbe and Goyle sniggered. 'But members of the Inquisitorial Squad -' [20:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> really? [20:46] <pineromartin> Does being a prtefect give you a better chance of becoming headboy/girl?¿? [20:46] <mollywobbles23> probably [20:46] <jaimedanser> yes, I believe that was one of Jo's few mistakes [20:46] <crom> maybe jo made a big mistake with that one :S [20:47] <Belenzie> no cause james wasn't a prefect [20:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> 'He was bluffing,' said Ernie, looking appalled. 'He can't be allowed to dock points that would be ridiculous it would completely undermine the prefect system.' [20:47] <mollywobbles23> yeah, it's an inconsistency [20:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol that's a pretty big line to give, if it's not true lol [20:47] <jaimedanser> omg, people, Jo isn't perfect [20:47] <Aislinn> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html [20:47] <jaimedanser> goodness [20:47] <MrMcGonagall> Blood status is an important part of the books. The author states that, "As far as somebody like Lucius Malfoy is concerned, for instance, a Muggle-born is as 'bad' as a Muggle. Therefore Harry would be considered only 'half' wizard, because of his mother's grandparents." What do you think of this interpretation by purebloods of other wizards in the Wizarding World? [20:47] <ProngsPatronus> I got that info off her site [20:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> sheeee's crazy smile [20:48] <Aislinn> and I'd just like to say how much I appreciate everyone's contribution to all the chats leading up to this friday's release, and the fact that you are all here to discuss and not spoil! [20:48] <Narya> Pureblood prejudice is a disfiguring element in wizarding society, just as it is in any society [20:48] <ProngsPatronus> I think this is their last stand--and they have to have something of which to be proud [20:48] <mollywobbles23> hmm..I think the Malfoys are full of it [20:48] *** testing has quit [Bye] [20:48] <Belenzie> on that note.............youtube is the spawn of satan [20:48] <jaimedanser> I think it's stupid...cause if they hadn't married Muggles, they would've died... [20:48] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think blood status is a HUGE deal... it's the reason why people follow Voldemort, in my opinion, because Voldemort offers them a return to the world when blood purity was seen as near royalty [20:48] <ProngsPatronus> you are welcome, Aislinn! [20:48] <jaimedanser> as Ron said [20:49] *** testing has joined #lounge [20:49] <Narya> Agreed, PP - since they have precious little else to be proud of, if we look at the Malfoys for instance [20:49] <jaimedanser> oh, and I want to say that I'm thankful nobody spoiled, too [20:49] <mollywobbles23> me too [20:49] <pineromartin> eah i dont see how voldemort pulls that off since he is not pureblood [20:49] <mollywobbles23> I would have just cried like a baby [20:49] <Belenzie> yeh thats stupendous thanks [20:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I think voldemort will have to prove that he's in it for the pure bloods in order to keep people like Bellatrix on his side [20:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> while keeping it secret that he's half blood [20:50] <crom> yeah he's doing what thay want [20:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> why else would he kill his entire family, and basically erase his past, if he didn't want people to go snooping [20:50] <jaimedanser> i do think it's interesting that LV pretends he's pure... [20:50] <pineromartin> you cant keep it a secret they were in his parents graveyard [20:50] <crom> so they might calss him as pure blood [20:50] <Aislinn> His secret has been released by Harry - at least to Bella [20:50] <LilaCatsfoot> Although she may not have believed him [20:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think it's significant that R.A.B. found the locket in Voldemort's childhood cave... it means that R.A.B. did snooping in Voldemort's past, just like Dumbledore did, and R.A.B. knows that Voldemort is half-blood [20:50] <jaimedanser> well, yes, Bella knows...but LV probably made her not say anything [20:50] <Narya> And she won't be able to forget, either [20:50] <Belenzie> but there has to be a certain few, the lestranges for example who know that he is/was tom riddle and that he is a halfblood, evenif he's slytheri's heir [20:51] <pineromartin> wormtail knows [20:51] <testing> wonder if that will be used against him later [20:51] <LilaCatsfoot> They may know he is Tom Riddle, but does that mean they know he is half blood? [20:51] <memyslfnI> I think it will [20:51] <Belenzie> oh yeah i forgot piner [20:51] <LilaCatsfoot> I guess maybe they know the names of all the pure blood families [20:51] <pineromartin> yes they were in the graveyard muggle graveyard at the end of book 4 [20:51] <LilaCatsfoot> Are wizards buried somewhere special? [20:52] <mollywobbles23> no idea [20:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i'd imagine there are wizard family graveyards, lila [20:52] <testing> Not just him being half blood, but that Potter told Bellatrix [20:52] <mollywobbles23> only funeral we've seen has been DD's [20:52] <LilaCatsfoot> I don't think that that graveyard was necessarily just muggle [20:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> we'll hopefully see one in DH!!! :-D [20:52] <Belenzie> we' might see a wizard graveyard harry wants to see his parents grves rember [20:52] <MrMcGonagall> Voldemort uses this prejudice to assemble the Death Eaters, but uses promises of equality and freedom to recruit other disenfranchised inhabitants of the Wizarding World to his cause. The Dark Lord is himself a half-blood, like Harry. How do you think that the Death Eaters resolve this disparity for themselves? What do these methods tell us about the character of Voldemort? [20:52] <crom> harry might visit his [parents graves in DH [20:52] <jaimedanser> i'm sure there's some graveyard [20:52] <crom> he said that in hbp [20:53] <jaimedanser> crom-yep =D [20:53] <LilaCatsfoot> I think he's just using everyone - telling them whatever they want to hear. [20:53] <hrh7> But many of Voldemort's followers are not purebloods either. [20:53] <mollywobbles23> he's cunning and he'll say anything to get his way [20:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i agree, lila [20:53] <Narya> I think the DEs are in it more for the bloodlust, and the power trip [20:53] <testing> But they want to be [20:53] <jaimedanser> basically that he'll do anything to get power, I think [20:53] <LilaCatsfoot> Yep, all about power. [20:53] <jaimedanser> and anything to be immortal... [20:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he'll use them and abuse them... he's like hitler promising the germans that germany will be the highest power in the world, and cleansed of the jews [20:53] <Aislinn> I think that he is targeting his message to his audience [20:53] <Narya> As for LV's character, he's cunning, and trusts no one [20:53] <Aislinn> and that he functions with them separated into terrorist cells [20:54] <crom> he does not care for them [20:54] <LilaCatsfoot> Unlike the Ministry, he realizes what the disenfranchised groups want. [20:54] <LilaCatsfoot> Cunning is right. [20:54] <pineromartin> voldemorts following what slytherin wanted to do, being his heir [20:54] <jaimedanser> he definitely doesn't really care for them [20:54] <ProngsPatronus> it is the cynicism that Voldemort uses in these efforts that is the most frightening to me [20:54] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I saw a Law and Order episode with a psychopath kid... reminded me of young Voldemort. He tortured kids for fun, but then manipulated parents to feel sorry for him [20:54] <LilaCatsfoot> Scary [20:55] <jaimedanser> choco-interesting.... [20:55] <Belenzie> a ahaha a death teether [20:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think voldemort enjoys manipulitaing people, especially mothers... i think he woudl have enjoyed killing a mother's baby in front of her, which is why he offered Lily a chance to step aside..... [20:55] <mollywobbles23> interesting [20:55] <Narya> Cynicism, and lack of humanity, PP [20:55] <crom> maybe because he never had the chance of a parent [20:56] <crom> enjoys seeing others without it too [20:56] <mollywobbles23> partly, crom [20:56] <jaimedanser> maybe... [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't think he ever wished for a parent, though [20:56] <LilaCatsfoot> Of course, that's just one way to react to that situation. "It is our choices, Harry..." [20:56] <mollywobbles23> but plenty of people were raised without parents and not all of them are crazy psycho killers [20:56] <LilaCatsfoot> Exactly [20:56] <pineromartin> yes he did until he found out hismother was the witch [20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> and some are raised with parents, and do become them [20:57] <mollywobbles23> yep [20:57] <jaimedanser> yeah...parenting isn't everything [20:57] <MrMcGonagall> "Human nature is human nature, whatever special powers and talents you have." Do wizards think they are human, with all of a regular human being's foibles? In what way has magic changed the "human" nature of witches and wizards? [20:57] <jaimedanser> sorry, but.... [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> no way... that's what's so compelling about Harry Potter [20:57] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> the magic is just an accessory to real life [20:57] *** Belenzie has quit [Bye] [20:58] *** testing has quit [Bye] [20:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> just like them, we are scared of death, we want love, we want power, we want companionship... [20:58] <Aislinn> I think that all of the struggles of the human condition are just as present for the wizards [20:58] <pineromartin> i believe most wizards belive to be above humans [20:58] <LilaCatsfoot> I think that wizards do recognize that they are human, despite the additional powers they have. [20:58] <hrh7> I agree, chocolateisnotforbreakfast [20:58] *** blue4t has joined #lounge [20:58] <Narya> I think wizards are just as human as anyone else, and it's how they choose to use their magic which defines them, not anything else [20:58] <LilaCatsfoot> Fudge tells the Prime Minister that the bad side has magic too. [20:58] <mollywobbles23> yes [20:58] <Aislinn> the only thing that is different is an ability to withstand/recover from injury more easily [20:58] <pineromartin> remember that being interested in muggles is viewed like its wrong [20:58] <jaimedanser> i think wizards realise they aren't human...they are aware of how they can die and everything, anyway [20:58] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Narya. [20:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> but that only means they put themselves in more dangerous situations, aislinn smile [20:59] <Aislinn> but the emotional issues, the desires, fears, wishes, biases, etc - these things carry through [20:59] <Aislinn> that's true, chocolate [20:59] <LilaCatsfoot> Yup [20:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> their sport is far more treacherous than any of ours smile [20:59] <MrMcGonagall> Having an unusual degree of power is always a temptation, whether you're a muggle or a wizard. [20:59] <LilaCatsfoot> I really enjoyed chatting with all of you! [20:59] <jaimedanser> .yea, it is [20:59] <LilaCatsfoot> Can't wait until Friday night!!! [20:59] <mollywobbles23> I hope no one gets spoiled! [20:59] <crom> theyr are some pretty ruff sports out there in muggle world [20:59] <Aislinn> it has been a wonderful chat! [21:00] <LilaCatsfoot> Bye, all! [21:00] <pineromartin> yes it has [21:00] <jaimedanser> Only 2 days, people =D [21:00] <mollywobbles23> bye everyone! [21:00] <crom> bye [21:00] *** mollywobbles23 has quit [Bye] [21:00] <MrMcGonagall> Thank you to everyone! [21:00] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast smacks spoilers with the 2x4 [21:00] <Aislinn> thanks to all of you! [21:00] <pineromartin> bye bye [21:00] <mdbennett> Thanks,mods! [21:00] <MrMcGonagall> Our last chat before the big event! [21:00] <jaimedanser> it's been great talking to everyone! [21:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> thank you moderators!!! [21:00] <crom> bye guys been fun [21:00] <ProngsPatronus> thanks, everyone--it was a great chat! [21:00] <Aislinn> see you next week, when we can talk about the book!!!!! [21:00] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> this really IS it this time *tear* [21:00] <Narya> Thanks for a great chat, and thanks to the CB staff for being such good hosts [21:00] <MrMcGonagall> Squeeeeeee!!! [21:00] <MrMcGonagall> You're welcome, everybody. [21:00] <Joyhawk2121> bye and thanks [21:00] <jaimedanser> bye...thanks mods! [21:00] *** LilaCatsfoot has quit [Bye] [21:00] *** Narya has quit [Bye] [21:00] *** Joyhawk2121 has quit [Bye] [21:01] <jaimedanser> and thankst to everyone else for stimulating my mind =D [21:01] * chocolateisnotforbreakfast hugs everyone [21:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> anytime jaime [21:01] *** crom has quit [Bye] [21:01] <ProngsPatronus> glad you could come, jaime! [21:01] *** mdbennett has quit [Bye] [21:01] <jaimedanser> BYE!!!! See you on Leaky (?) [21:01] * Aislinn hugs everyone and waves [21:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> bye!!! [21:01] * ProngsPatronus starts flickering the lights [21:01] *** chocolateisnotforbreakfast has quit [Bye] [21:01] <hrh7> Thanks. Bye [21:01] <MrMcGonagall> One big Corner Booth group hug!! [21:01] <Aislinn> (((((((hug)))))))) [21:02] <ProngsPatronus> (((((hugs))))) [21:02] <jaimedanser> *hugs* [21:02] <pineromartin> hug [21:02] *** jaimedanser has quit [Bye] [21:02] *** hrh7 has quit [Bye] |
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