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Leaky Lounge > HP-Related Discussion: Diagon Alley > HP Book Discussion: Flourish and Blotts > Post-DH Predictions: Predicting the Unpredictable

 
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Things you would have changed
Dark Yoda
post Jul 8 2009, 02:16 PM
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I know we all love JK Rowling's world of Harry Potter but what are some of the things you would have done differently if you were the author of the Harry Potter series?

If it was up to me, I think Neville and Bellatrix should have dueled in OOTP. I also beleive that Neville should have been the one to kill Bellatrix. I just think it would have fitted perfectly because Bellatrix tortured his parents to the point of going crazy and Neville always hated her for that.

What would you guys have done differently?

Justin


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AreYouAFirstYear...
post Sep 1 2009, 03:33 PM
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Interesting discussion! I think I'll jump right in.

QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 11 2009, 07:24 PM) *
QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 11 2009, 09:20 PM) *
Appreciating that Dumbledore was vigilant for Voldmort's return, still, it seems he might have taken an hour or six in 12 years. Even more.
But it wouldn't be an hour or six. Trying to get trials for those imprisoned without being tried would take months of work. Even getting hold of the evidence to examine it would probably take a lot of work (Dumbledore talks about securing a visit to Morfin, so that would require permission from the authorities as well), and then reinvestigating the crimes those people were accused of would take more months of work.


Another explanation to Dumbledore's apparent lack of action to right certain wrongs follows:

Perhaps Dumbledore tried to allow those who did not have a fair trial, such as Sirius, that oppotunity, but the ministry refused to allow it, because by revisiting these cases, if many wizards turned out to have been wrongly imprisoned, releasing huge numbers could cause for 1. the ministry to look bad, and 2. for mass revolt from the ex-prisoners.

QUOTE(Dark Yoda @ Jul 9 2009, 03:16 AM)
If it was up to me, I think Neville and Bellatrix should have dueled in OOTP. I also beleive that Neville should have been the one to kill Bellatrix. I just think it would have fitted perfectly because Bellatrix tortured his parents to the point of going crazy and Neville always hated her for that.


I always thought that Neville would be the one to kill Bellatrix too, but when you think about it, it's better that like Harry, he didn't ever kill (at least on the pages). In fact, thinking back now (and please don't kill me) it would have been hauntingly beautiful if Bellatrix had actually killed Neville in the end.

In terms of what I would change, probably I would just tweak minor things, and I would have played out the Lupin-Tonks relationship waaaaay differently. As in, tossed it in the bin, because there was hardly any lead up, then suddenly: *boom* they're married, *bang* they're parents


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harrydavid
post Sep 2 2009, 10:46 AM
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QUOTE(AreYouAFirstYearToo? @ Sep 1 2009, 03:33 PM) *
Another explanation to Dumbledore's apparent lack of action to right certain wrongs follows:

Perhaps Dumbledore tried to allow those who did not have a fair trial, such as Sirius, that oppotunity, but the ministry refused to allow it, because by revisiting these cases, if many wizards turned out to have been wrongly imprisoned, releasing huge numbers could cause for 1. the ministry to look bad, and 2. for mass revolt from the ex-prisoners.
I think the simplest answer is actually the best. Dumbledore simply had no reason to suspect that Sirius was not guilty. Because of his feelings of guilt, Sirius made no effort to defend himself and said nothing to the authorities. He felt responsible because he had talked them into using Wormtail as Secret Keeper. If he had declared his innocence, it might have been different.

We also have to remember that Dumbledore has no power over the Ministry. Even he he had suspected something was wrong what could he do? When Sirius is about to be kissed by the Dementor in PoA, he admits that he has no power to force others to see the truth. Another example of his inability to force the Ministry to do the right thing is that he couldn't get Stan Shunpike released from Azkaban, when it was obvious he was innocent.

This post has been edited by harrydavid: Sep 2 2009, 10:47 AM


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cooncatbob
post Sep 2 2009, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE(harrydavid @ Sep 2 2009, 08:46 AM) *
QUOTE(AreYouAFirstYearToo? @ Sep 1 2009, 03:33 PM) *
Another explanation to Dumbledore's apparent lack of action to right certain wrongs follows:

Perhaps Dumbledore tried to allow those who did not have a fair trial, such as Sirius, that oppotunity, but the ministry refused to allow it, because by revisiting these cases, if many wizards turned out to have been wrongly imprisoned, releasing huge numbers could cause for 1. the ministry to look bad, and 2. for mass revolt from the ex-prisoners.
I think the simplest answer is actually the best. Dumbledore simply had no reason to suspect that Sirius was not guilty. Because of his feelings of guilt, Sirius made no effort to defend himself and said nothing to the authorities. He felt responsible because he had talked them into using Wormtail as Secret Keeper. If he had declared his innocence, it might have been different.

We also have to remember that Dumbledore has no power over the Ministry. Even he he had suspected something was wrong what could he do? When Sirius is about to be kissed by the Dementor in PoA, he admits that he has no power to force others to see the truth. Another example of his inability to force the Ministry to do the right thing is that he couldn't get Stan Shunpike released from Azkaban, when it was obvious he was innocent.


But isn't Dumbledore "Chief Warlock" of the Wizengamoot?
So as a high ranking officer of the court he does have power.
This isn't Fudges watch, Dumbledore is at the height of his influence after the end of the 1st war.
Everyone said that Sirius and James were like brothers and that James trusted Sirius above all his other friends.
Dumbledore recruited them into the OOTP.
Seems to me that Dumbledore would want to question him if for no other reason then to discover any information he might have regarding other traitors or Deatheaters at large.


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harrydavid
post Sep 2 2009, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE(cooncatbob @ Sep 2 2009, 12:33 PM) *
QUOTE(harrydavid @ Sep 2 2009, 08:46 AM) *
QUOTE(AreYouAFirstYearToo? @ Sep 1 2009, 03:33 PM) *
Another explanation to Dumbledore's apparent lack of action to right certain wrongs follows:

Perhaps Dumbledore tried to allow those who did not have a fair trial, such as Sirius, that oppotunity, but the ministry refused to allow it, because by revisiting these cases, if many wizards turned out to have been wrongly imprisoned, releasing huge numbers could cause for 1. the ministry to look bad, and 2. for mass revolt from the ex-prisoners.
I think the simplest answer is actually the best. Dumbledore simply had no reason to suspect that Sirius was not guilty. Because of his feelings of guilt, Sirius made no effort to defend himself and said nothing to the authorities. He felt responsible because he had talked them into using Wormtail as Secret Keeper. If he had declared his innocence, it might have been different.

We also have to remember that Dumbledore has no power over the Ministry. Even he he had suspected something was wrong what could he do? When Sirius is about to be kissed by the Dementor in PoA, he admits that he has no power to force others to see the truth. Another example of his inability to force the Ministry to do the right thing is that he couldn't get Stan Shunpike released from Azkaban, when it was obvious he was innocent.
But isn't Dumbledore "Chief Warlock" of the Wizengamoot?
So as a high ranking officer of the court he does have power.
This isn't Fudges watch, Dumbledore is at the height of his influence after the end of the 1st war.
Everyone said that Sirius and James were like brothers and that James trusted Sirius above all his other friends.
Dumbledore recruited them into the OOTP.
Seems to me that Dumbledore would want to question him if for no other reason then to discover any information he might have regarding other traitors or Deatheaters at large.
Yes, Dumbledore was Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot. And you would think that he should have some authority. But, he was also Chief Warlock for the other two examples I gave and it seems he didn't have that much authority after all. He couldn't protect Sirius or Stan during those two incidents. And I still contend that he had no reason to talk to Sirius. Everything that people come up with as reasons why he should have sound very much like "hindsight is 20/20 vision" to me.


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Hannibal Granger
post Sep 5 2009, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE(harrydavid @ Sep 2 2009, 05:56 PM) *
I still contend that he had no reason to talk to Sirius. Everything that people come up with as reasons why he should have sound very much like "hindsight is 20/20 vision" to me.


The questions below did not come from hindsight. They came by applying Canon, as it emerged.

1. Why was Prior Incantata not applied to Sirius' wand?
2. Why were Sirius' memories not collected for examination in Dumbledore's Pensieve?

The first could not be asked until Book 4, when Prior Incantata was introduced. The second could not be asked until Bk 6, when we see Dumbledore's collection. Pensieve was introduced earlier, Bk 4, but collection-of-others'-memories was not.

Except as an indictment of WW jurisprudence, Sirius' failure to mount his own defense is irrelevant.

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roonwit
post Sep 5 2009, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Sep 5 2009, 04:21 PM) *
1. Why was Prior Incantata not applied to Sirius' wand?
2. Why were Sirius' memories not collected for examination in Dumbledore's Pensieve?

Except as an indictment of WW jurisprudence, Sirius' failure to mount his own defense is irrelevant.
But this still relies on someone realizing that the numerous witnesses, Dumbledore's statement about the secret keeper and Sirius failing to protest his innocence didn't provide the incontrovertible evidence it appeared to.

It is easy, with hindsight, to see that Sirius was innocent (for some at least - the Ministry didn't believe it until Sirius had been killed by a death eater), but your two points would seem at the time to be unnecessary evidence gathering for a case that was strong enough already.


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Posts in this topic
- Dark Yoda   Things you would have changed   Jul 8 2009, 02:16 PM
- - DesQueJteVois   One major thing that I would have changed througho...   Jul 22 2009, 03:06 PM
|- - jazzmanchgo   QUOTE(DesQueJteVois @ Jul 22 2009, 03:06 ...   Jul 22 2009, 06:55 PM
- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(Dark Yoda @ Jul 8 2009, 03:16 PM) ....   Aug 2 2009, 01:29 PM
|- - SeveraSphyrna   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 2 2009, 12:2...   Aug 3 2009, 07:39 PM
||- - roonwit   QUOTE(SeveraSphyrna @ Aug 4 2009, 01:39 A...   Aug 4 2009, 02:52 PM
||- - acciosirius   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 4 2009, 03:52 PM) QUO...   Aug 4 2009, 07:05 PM
||- - SeveraSphyrna   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 4 2009, 02:52 PM) QUO...   Aug 5 2009, 07:14 PM
|- - paint it Black   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 2 2009, 02:2...   Aug 6 2009, 12:49 AM
- - acciosirius   I'll probably be attacked for saying it, but I...   Aug 4 2009, 10:33 AM
- - bambahw   I absolutely love these books and I read DH quite ...   Aug 4 2009, 08:54 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(bambahw @ Aug 5 2009, 02:54 AM) 1) ...   Aug 5 2009, 02:40 PM
|- - bambahw   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 5 2009, 08:40 PM) QUO...   Aug 6 2009, 02:23 PM
- - The Crimson Artist   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger)2. Written an evil Slytheri...   Aug 5 2009, 11:31 PM
- - Hannibal Granger   Unaccustomed as i am to getting any agreement at a...   Aug 6 2009, 07:32 AM
- - acciosirius   On the topic of Dumbledore and Sirius, I never rea...   Aug 6 2009, 09:17 AM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(acciosirius @ Aug 6 2009, 10:17 AM)...   Aug 6 2009, 10:36 AM
- - paint it Black   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 6 2009, 08:3...   Aug 6 2009, 11:24 AM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(paint it Black @ Aug 6 2009, 12:24 ...   Aug 6 2009, 12:33 PM
- - Peril   Good thread. I felt an urge to register to post a ...   Aug 6 2009, 06:51 PM
- - harrydavid   QUOTE(paint it Black @ Aug 6 2009, 11:24 ...   Aug 9 2009, 02:43 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(harrydavid @ Aug 9 2009, 08:43 PM) ...   Aug 9 2009, 03:34 PM
||- - harrydavid   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 9 2009, 03:34 PM) QUO...   Aug 9 2009, 05:40 PM
|- - paint it Black   QUOTE(harrydavid @ Aug 9 2009, 03:43 PM) ...   Aug 9 2009, 10:43 PM
||- - roonwit   QUOTE(paint it Black @ Aug 10 2009, 04:43...   Aug 10 2009, 08:26 AM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTEI find it impossible to consider that Dumbled...   Aug 10 2009, 09:08 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 10 2009, 03...   Aug 10 2009, 03:40 PM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 10 2009, 04:40 PM) Bu...   Aug 10 2009, 05:44 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 10 2009, 11...   Aug 10 2009, 07:32 PM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 10 2009, 08:32 PM) QU...   Aug 11 2009, 03:20 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 11 2009, 09...   Aug 11 2009, 06:24 PM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 11 2009, 07:24 PM) I ...   Aug 12 2009, 06:20 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 12 2009, 12...   Aug 12 2009, 07:23 AM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(roonwit @ Aug 12 2009, 08:23 AM) Yo...   Aug 12 2009, 01:41 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 12 2009, 07...   Aug 12 2009, 02:05 PM
- - The Crimson Artist   QUOTE(harrydavid)I find it impossible to consider ...   Aug 9 2009, 06:40 PM
|- - harrydavid   QUOTE(The Crimson Artist @ Aug 9 2009, 06...   Aug 9 2009, 07:42 PM
- - enchantments   I don't think Harry and Ginny should have been...   Aug 9 2009, 07:25 PM
- - The Crimson Artist   QUOTE"The ends justify the means" means ...   Aug 10 2009, 08:15 AM
|- - harrydavid   QUOTE(The Crimson Artist @ Aug 10 2009, 08...   Aug 10 2009, 08:58 AM
- - The Crimson Artist   QUOTEWe don't know what Dumbledore's plans...   Aug 10 2009, 05:55 PM
|- - SeveraSphyrna   QUOTE(The Crimson Artist @ Aug 10 2009, 05...   Aug 10 2009, 08:48 PM
|- - harrydavid   QUOTE(The Crimson Artist @ Aug 10 2009, 05...   Aug 11 2009, 02:38 PM
- - Pynki   HEllo was was reading this thread and felt the nee...   Aug 11 2009, 12:46 AM
- - snoops   I would not have changed anything in the books. T...   Aug 21 2009, 02:25 PM
- - midzy   QUOTE(Dark Yoda @ Jul 9 2009, 03:16 AM) I...   Aug 31 2009, 01:08 AM
- - chelsearose1989   I was so disappointed when I read Book 7 and found...   Aug 31 2009, 07:39 PM
- - bambahw   This is kind of a thing I would like to change and...   Sep 1 2009, 01:49 PM
|- - Bookworm_Weasley   QUOTE(bambahw @ Sep 1 2009, 02:49 PM) Thi...   Sep 21 2009, 01:11 AM
||- - GaryPotter   QUOTE(harrydavid @ Sep 2 2009, 05:56 PM) ...   Sep 3 2009, 11:44 AM
||- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(roonwit @ Sep 5 2009, 03:54 PM) QUO...   Sep 5 2009, 03:41 PM
||- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Sep 5 2009, 09:4...   Sep 5 2009, 04:58 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(cooncatbob @ Sep 2 2009, 06:33 PM) ...   Sep 2 2009, 05:12 PM
- - mini bagel   Wow. There is some very deep discussion going on....   Sep 3 2009, 07:12 PM
|- - midzy   QUOTE(mini bagel @ Sep 4 2009, 08:12 AM) ...   Sep 4 2009, 12:01 AM
- - Darth Revan   I would make magic into the Force. Add some Jedi a...   Sep 3 2009, 09:17 PM
- - wickedboy   I'd of enjoyed that...but I'm thinking Luc...   Sep 3 2009, 09:21 PM
- - _amanda_   I honestly wouldn't change a thing. There wer...   Sep 4 2009, 09:07 AM
- - bambahw   I hate the fact in OOTP that Harry & Hermione ...   Sep 4 2009, 04:08 PM
- - shantih   QUOTE(The Crimson Artist @ Jul 11 2009, 02...   Oct 8 2009, 04:43 AM
- - Silvia_CMC   I would like to look into the character of Tom Mar...   Oct 9 2009, 01:27 AM

 

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