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How easy is it to create a new spell?, If Snape could do it, surely other people did?

blue_dreamer View Member Profile	Nov 2 2009, 01:42 PM Post #1
Being Chosen by a Wand at Ollivander's Posts: 2,963 Joined: 8:53am April 20, 2006 Location: Prifysgol Bangor Univeristy, Bangor, Cymru	We see in HBP spells created by wizard (ie, Sectumsempra was created by Snape). This got me thinking: there must be more people out there (barring the Lovegoods in this instance) who create their own spells. What if Voldemort had created a spell that meant he didn't need Horcruxes? What if Dumbledore and Grindlewald created one instead of the Hallows? Surely there must be lots of 'unofficial' spells out there being used all the time, perhaps coverups for the Unforgiveable curses that effectively do the same thing, only they're not known to the Ministry? -------------------- "...because if there is one thing I've learned from all I've been through, it's that you only regret the things that you didn't do." Cameron Duncan

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roonwit View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 08:23 AM Post #2
Leaky Lounge Over Achiever Posts: 9,332 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK	QUOTE(blue_dreamer @ Nov 2 2009, 06:42 PM) Surely there must be lots of 'unofficial' spells out there being used all the time, perhaps coverups for the Unforgiveable curses that effectively do the same thing, only they're not known to the Ministry? I don't think there would be any point in inventing a new spell that did the same thing as an old one. For Unforgivable-like spells you would still be prosecuted for the effect that any spell even if the spell wasn't previously known, and for more normal spells it would be easier to look up an existing spell than invent one afresh. I am sure that new spells do get invented, and some are subsequently approved by the Ministry but I imagine inventing completely original spells is very difficult. -------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo

cooncatbob View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 02:24 PM Post #3
Newest Housekeeper at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 717 Joined: 4:16pm April 26, 2008	QUOTE(roonwit @ Nov 3 2009, 05:23 AM) QUOTE(blue_dreamer @ Nov 2 2009, 06:42 PM) Surely there must be lots of 'unofficial' spells out there being used all the time, perhaps coverups for the Unforgiveable curses that effectively do the same thing, only they're not known to the Ministry? I don't think there would be any point in inventing a new spell that did the same thing as an old one. For Unforgivable-like spells you would still be prosecuted for the effect that any spell even if the spell wasn't previously known, and for more normal spells it would be easier to look up an existing spell than invent one afresh. I am sure that new spells do get invented, and some are subsequently approved by the Ministry but I imagine inventing completely original spells is very difficult. I agree, I would imagine a Witch/Wizard would have to be both highly skilled and creative to invent new originial spells. -------------------- Work like you don't need the money Love like you've never been hurt, and Dance like no one is watching.

blue_dreamer View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 02:38 PM Post #4
Being Chosen by a Wand at Ollivander's Posts: 2,963 Joined: 8:53am April 20, 2006 Location: Prifysgol Bangor Univeristy, Bangor, Cymru	Snape did it though: surely someone as intelligent as Hermione could: there must be others. My thought with the Unforgiveables was that the Ministry may be able to detect someone saying "Crucio" or the like, where as if they invented a spell which has a similar effect with a different name may get past the Ministry detectors... There could be lots of spells, in the same way there are lots of unregistered Animagi. -------------------- "...because if there is one thing I've learned from all I've been through, it's that you only regret the things that you didn't do." Cameron Duncan

fidelia View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 04:40 PM Post #5
Ollivander's Apprentice Posts: 2,176 Joined: 7:39pm March 11, 2007 Location: wandering in the Forbidden Forest, listening for the Phoenix song	Well, we do have Luna Lovegood's mother as an example of a witch who created new things. Luna tells us that she "loved to experiment" and that one of her experiments went badly wrong one day. I've always read this to mean that she was trying to create something new, something that hadn't been tried before. And yes, it backfired. But she must also have created things that went right as well. Just as Slughorn said that wizards of a certain calibre were drawn to the Dark Arts, I think witches and wizards of a certain curiosity were drawn to create and to explore outside the bounds of "what's been done".....Mrs Lovegood was just one of them. --------------------

harrydavid View Member Profile	Nov 6 2009, 10:42 PM Post #6
Diagon Alley Watchwizard Posts: 2,286 Joined: 5:11pm May 4, 2007 Location: Texas	Apparently, new spells require some trial and error. I certainly don't think I would have liked to be one of the wizards who first developed human transfiguration. I'll bet there was some gruesome accidents. -------------------- "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -Albus Dumbledore

Shunpike View Member Profile	Nov 16 2009, 11:26 PM Post #7
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 4 Joined: 7:54pm February 17, 2009	remember that hermione did create her own spell. The incantation was point me and that caused the users wand to point north. She invented it for the triwizard tourny.

roonwit View Member Profile	Nov 17 2009, 07:18 AM Post #8
Leaky Lounge Over Achiever Posts: 9,332 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK	QUOTE(Shunpike @ Nov 17 2009, 04:26 AM) remember that hermione did create her own spell. The incantation was point me and that caused the users wand to point north. She invented it for the triwizard tourny. It is described as a discovery, but I interpret that to mean that she discovered it in the many books she searched through. Given her warnings to Harry over the invented spells he uses from the Half-Blood Prince book in HBP, I can't see her having invented her own spells. -------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo

Burger View Member Profile	Nov 17 2009, 10:01 AM Post #9
Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 80 Joined: 9:47am August 19, 2009	I would put it forward that new spells are not invented as such, but discovered. The sectumsempra spell always existed, when Snape "invented" it he simply found the word sequence that would perform the spell. Maybe it was trial and error; more likely there is some (obviously quite difficult) method of discovering spell words.

ravenseeker View Member Profile	Nov 17 2009, 05:40 PM Post #10
Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor Posts: 766 Joined: 4:01pm April 13, 2009 Location: Hogwarts Library- Restricted Section	Most spells seem to be based off of Latin, so I imagine that a skilled wizard would start by figuring out several ways to say what they want to do n Latin. They would then try different variations of the incantation along with different wand movements until they found a combination that worked. We also know that some spells (riddiculus, expecto patronum) require certain thoughts or emotions in order to work, so that could complicate the process. I think it would be easiest to start with a spell that you know and adapt it. For instance; aquamenti produces a fountain of water, a similar wand movement and something like vinementi might produce a fountain of wine. Slightly diffrent movements might produce red or white wine. So I would think that building on existing spells would be pretty do-able, and there are probably countless spells that someone has already gone to the trouble of figuring out. Where it gets complicated is brand new areas of magic, or complex spells. I don't think you could simply create a way to split your soul without a horocrux, Voldy spent years trying to become immortal, and the horocrux was still the best thing he knew how to do. Flamel was the only one of countless wizards that we know of who figured out the philosopher's stone. I'm sure that some wizards (who have the gold not to need to work) spend their time in research, but a completely new spell would be the achievement of a lifetime. -------------------- "Life is really messy. . .You think that killing people might make them like you, but it doesn't. It just makes them dead. "

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