In essence divided ?, Dumbledore's silver instrument |
  Mar 7 2008, 05:25 PM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 141 Joined: 3:56am February 21, 2008 Location: Commuting between Ravenclaw Common Room and the Room of Hidden Things  |
As we know by now (DH
 ), Nagini's snake venom kills within minutes. Why did Arthur Weasley survive? As far as I know, snakes can decide whether to put venom into a bite or not, but Nagini's mission would have been easier if Arthur was killed  , wouldn't it?Did Nagini get second thoughts? Was it Voldemort's decision - if so, why? Or was it a side effect of Harry "being there", too? And was it the unusual behaviour of Nagini when biting that showed Voldemort that he was not the only one on the ride inside Nagini's head/body? In short, was what Harry did to Nagini what we usually know as "possession" - making someone "do things"? |
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Mar 7 2008, 05:38 PM
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Daily Prophet Photographer Posts: 875 Joined: 3:46pm January 7, 2008 Location: Macedonia  |
But how do you know that Nagini's venow kills? It isnot mentioned anywhere. And if you think about that Nagini killed Snape with her venom I think that you are wrong. IMO Snape died because he lost to much blood. I don't know if I am wrong or right but that is my opinion.
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Mar 7 2008, 06:36 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
Snape's death was likely a combination of snake venom and too much blood lost (as the wounds were right to the neck). Arthur didn't die because Nagini attacked his chest, where he may have lost a lot of blood, but not enough to kill him (plus, Arthur was treated relatively quickly).
Harry didn't possess Nagini - LV did, and Harry can see into his mind. This time, LV happened to notice Harry's presence. -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Mar 7 2008, 08:24 PM
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 346 Joined: 7:13pm January 28, 2005 Location: In the Hogwarts kitchen...I love house elves! |
QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Mar 7 2008, 05:36 PM)  Harry didn't possess Nagini - LV did, and Harry can see into his mind. This time, LV happened to notice Harry's presence. Maybe the fact that LV was so close to two separated parts of his soul made him aware that Harry was there. --------------------  Avatar and Signature designed by theonlysong |
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Mar 7 2008, 09:24 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf  Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release |
QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Mar 8 2008, 10:36 AM) Snape's death was likely a combination of snake venom and too much blood lost (as the wounds were right to the neck). Arthur didn't die because Nagini attacked his chest, where he may have lost a lot of blood, but not enough to kill him (plus, Arthur was treated relatively quickly). Judging by the problems Arthur had with stitches Nagini's venom must have included an anti-coagulant, which would have promoted bleeding and which also dissolved stitches. Essence of Dittany must neutralise Nagini's venom, since when later on, Nagini bit Harry, he got over it with Hermione's help, and without having to be put into St Mungo's. Pity Hermione did not have any Dittany at hand when Snape was bitten, or the healers at St Mungo's didn't think about using it on Arthur. QUOTE Harry didn't possess Nagini - LV did, and Harry can see into his mind. This time, LV happened to notice Harry's presence Voldemrot should be careful who's watching.  But Harry in his dream actually was the snake, wasn't he? I doubt Voldemort noticed Harry then, whilst he was possessing Nagini, but later on, when Harry and Dumbledore's eyes met just before Harry and the Weasleys went to 12 GP, yes, Voldemort must have found out then, to hate Dumbledore so much.
--------------------  Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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Mar 8 2008, 02:49 AM
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#6
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Mar 7 2008, 09:24 PM) Essence of Dittany must neutralise Nagini's venom, since when later on, Nagini bit Harry, he got over it with Hermione's help, and without having to be put into St Mungo's. I forgot he got bit in the Godric's Hollow scene. But that one was just a bite to the forearm, and it wasn't intended to kill, just get hold of Harry, so Dittany would have been very effective here. QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Mar 7 2008, 09:24 PM) QUOTE Harry didn't possess Nagini - LV did, and Harry can see into his mind. This time, LV happened to notice Harry's presence Voldemort should be careful who's watching. But Harry in his dream actually was the snake, wasn't he? I doubt Voldemort noticed Harry then, whilst he was possessing Nagini, but later on, when Harry and Dumbledore's eyes met just before Harry and the Weasleys went to 12 GP, yes, Voldemort must have found out then, to hate Dumbledore so much.Yes, in his 'dream', Harry was the snake. I assumed this was because LV was possesing her at the time (i.e. LV was the snake). As we see in other visions, Harry believes he is LV (which we now know was because of the fragment of LV's soul inside Harry), so when he thinks he's the snake in the DoM, it's because LV was the snake at the time. This is how I understood it, anyway. As for whether or not LV noticed the connection until Harry was in DD's office, just before he took the Portkey, you could very well be right, but based on the conversation b/w Snape and Harry at the beginning of their first Occlumency lesson, they were under the impression that LV realized Harry was accessing his mind while he was possessing the snake. He certainly knew about it when Harry was just about to take the Portkey, but DD was under the impression (based on Snape's information, no doubt) that LV first realized it as the snake was attacking Arthur. This post has been edited by harrypottergeek2: Mar 8 2008, 03:03 AM -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Mar 8 2008, 09:45 AM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary Posts: 4,714 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss. |
Interesting topic Shnoing !  The reason, I think, why Nagini didn't kill Mr.Weasley off-hand is because she wasn't specifically ordered to do so by Voldemort, unlike Snape's case. Nagini didn't want to bite Arthur, but did so in self defence as she saw him draw his wand. She had bitten him seriously, no doubt, but since he was rushed to St.Mungo's very quickly, he survived and was later cured. Like Antonija said, Snape seemed to die of excessive blood-loss than due to the poison to me too. Of course, the anti-clotting agent in the poison would have materially contributed to the blood-loss, so one can say it is a fine distinction. In Godric's Hollow, voldemort again gave Nagini specific orders not to kill Harry, but to just keep him there till he could come. So Nagini would have bitten Harry without using venom just to incapacitate him, rather than kill. She could have injected venom, but Voldemort wanted to make sure that Harry died only with his hand and wouldn't have wanted even Nagini to do the job.  --------------------  |
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Mar 8 2008, 10:33 AM
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The Other Half of the DDD Posts: 4,941 Joined: 10:10am March 16, 2007 Location: Marauding with Moony, Padfoot and Prongs |
From my reading of OoTP, I don't get the impression that Nagini intended to kill Arthur Weasley when she bit him. I agree with rowena r, that she bit him in self defence.
Although she had the urge to bite him at first, QUOTE Harry longed to bite the man...but he must master the impulse...he had more important work to do... OoTP - p409, UK edition.it clearly states she had decided NOT to bite, because she was not sent there for that purpose. QUOTE ...a silver cloak fell from his legs as he jumped to his feet; and Harry saw his vibrant, blurred outline towering above him, saw a wand withdrawn from a belt...he had no choice...he reared high from the floor and struck once, twice three times, plunging his fangs deeply into the man's flesh, feeling his ribs splinter beneath his jaws, feeling the warm gush of blood... OoTP, p409, UK edition.If Arthur had not produced his wand with intent to use it on Nagini, I doubt she would have attacked him in the first place. As said above, she had more important work to do. She bit Arthur enough to incapacitate him so she would be free to follow Voldemort's orders. -------------------- |
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Mar 10 2008, 09:15 AM
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Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007 |
QUOTE As we see in other visions, Harry believes he is LV This only starts in OOTP, though. In the two visions he had in GOF he was looking from outside onto the scene. This post has been edited by Oryx: Mar 10 2008, 09:15 AM |
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Mar 10 2008, 12:59 PM
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#10
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
QUOTE(Oryx @ Mar 10 2008, 09:15 AM) QUOTE As we see in other visions, Harry believes he is LV This only starts in OOTP, though. In the two visions he had in GOF he was looking from outside onto the scene. Good point; I've always wondered why that was the case, because the visions he has in GoF seem more like dreams than instances of him getting into LV's mind. Has this inconsitency ever been explained? -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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