The hand that signed the paper, Should Hermione have jinxed the DA list? |
 Feb 15 2008, 08:22 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf  Posts: 4,718 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 5, awaiting Deathly Hallow's release.  |
HERMIONE AND MARIETTA EDGECOMBE Hermione has quite a year in OotP. She starts out by finding that she and Ron have been appointed prefects and by continuing with her efforts to free House Elves.However law abiding Hermione is, she comes into conflict with Dolores Umbridge's idea of teaching. Hermione and Ron have the idea to form a study group so that they can learn DADA properly, and invited a few others along. But when more than two dozen people turn up at their first meeting in the Hogs Head, the whole idea becomes problematical. WHY HERMIONE SHOULD HAVE JINXED THE PAPER. HERMIONE'S SIDE. If it is possible for one out of four fast friends to betray the others, then how much more likely is it that one out of a group of twenty eight people who went to the Hogs Head would go to Umbridge? The day after their meeting there were messages up all over Hogwarts, forbidding the very clubs and associations Hermione and Ron were trying to form. We don't learn until the DA was eventually sprung that it was Willie Widdershins dressed like a mummy who was spying on the DA meeting. As the meeting closed, Hermione got everyone who attended that meeting to sign a piece of paper, which she jinxed so that if anyone in that group betrayed the others then everyone would know who did it. She did warn the group that signing the list would be tantamount to agreeing not to tell Umbridge anything that went on. Under the circumstances, Hermione's precaution was a sensible one. Ron disliked Ginny's boyfriends, whom he considered untrustworthy, but that was his brotherly prejudice. Even the doubting Zachariah Smith didn't go to Umbridge, even though he was the last to sign. Each one of the people who went to the meeting had the choice not to go there in the first place. And each person in the Hogs Head could have openly refused to sign the paper or go along with the DA. Why did Marietta Edgecombe not back out then and there? And how could Hermione have known ahead of time who was going to betray the DA? It was clear that Marietta was a bit dubious about the DA. She only went along because of her friend Cho Chang, who was attracted to Harry. Marietta's mother worked for the Ministry in the Floo Network and had warned her about getting involved in such activities. Why then did she not refuse to go along with Cho? Does Cho really need a friend along to accompany her when she investigates every club she is tempted to join? When Marietta Edgecome finally did crack, she was putting DA members at risk, including herself. It wasn't doing Marietta, herself, any favours if she had to tell her mother about an illegal group she had joined. It was not being friendly to Cho either, since Cho's own mother worked for the Ministry. And Umbridge meant business. She not only found out who was in the DA, she also had the benefit of Pansy Parkinson going into the Room of Requirement to take the list as proof. It was only a bit of fancy work from Kingsley Shacklebolt which saved the day. Of course Marietta was stuck with pimples from that day onwards, though they faded away in time. Couldn't Marietta have gone to Hermione, herself, and apologised for her behaviour? Or better still, discussed why she wanted out of the DA with one of the other members? Not all of them would have been unsympathetic. If Hermione let her off too easily then she might have gone back to Umbridge a second time and given up even more information. Whilst Marietta's treatment seems harsh, it was necessary to jinx the paper, and Marietta deserved everything she got. Why did she go to Umbridge and not some other teacher? Especially as Hermione specifically said not to let Umbridge, of all people, know what they were doing. In the end, Dumbledore had to go to protect Harry and Marietta, herself. Umbridge seems quite dangerous in the Headmaster's office. Fudge, himself, was present, to wreak vengeance on disobedient school children. Percy was at his side to take notes. Jinxing the paper was the only sensible thing Hermione could do to protect everyone in the group, and she should not have been blamed for taking this sensible step. That Marietta was disfigured for more than two years afterwards was her own fault. HERMIONE SHOULD NOT HAVE JINXED THE PAPER - MARIETTA EDGECOMBE When Hermione jinxed the paper she was doing something clever that could backfire on everyone. No she didn't jinx the paper with Marietta in mind, but whoever did get jinxed would get a nasty shock. Is Hermione justified in jinxing the paper? No she isn't. Marietta could have been maimed for life, and until the pimples eventually faded, she suffered horrendous embarrassment, having to wear balaclavas or heavy make up to hide her face. What Hermione did to Marietta wasn't nice. Why didn't Hermione tell the group that if they sneaked on the DA they would get pimples spelling S.N.E.A.K? Wouldn't it have been fair if she had respected their right not to want to join such an association? Or told them that signing the paper was a commitment they could not wriggle out of? Perhaps Marietta was weak to let Cho drag her long to DA meetings, because of Cho's attraction to Harry. In loyalty to her friend, maybe Marietta thought they should have nothing further to do with Harry after the Valentine's day row Harry had with Cho. Perhaps Mrs Edgecombe had been getting to Marietta over the holidays, telling her to keep out of trouble. And perhaps Marietta, too, thought of Umbridge as 'a delightful woman'. Or maybe she thought the DA lessons weren't what she wanted. Are these good reasons to give the poor girl a disfigurement spelling out S.N.E.A.K? Marietta was to remain disfigured for more than two years by those pimples. Yes Hermione did need to take precautions against weak people who wanted out of the DA. And yes, Hermione did not know that it would be Marietta, in particular, who would be the one to crack. But disfiguring someone else for so long is somewhat excessive. Hermione should have set a time limit on when the pimples would fade. Nobody should be forced to suffer for years over a misguided youthful attitude. If she could not put a time limit on how long the penalty would apply, Hermione should not have jinxed the paper at all. Which side do you think was right? Hermione or Marietta? You are cordially invited to express your opinions here. This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Feb 15 2008, 04:48 PM --------------------  Check out Book Number 5 POA edition. |
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Feb 17 2008, 05:12 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility  Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
I don't think Hermione was wrong to jinx the paper to help preserve their secrecy, but I do think she should have warned the DA about the consequences. However, they did agree to keep the DA a secret, so there does need to be some sort of consequence for breakign the pact. Also, the person selling them out is commiting quite a large betryal considering how many people are involved; I especially have no mercy for Marietta, because she was also selling out her best friend, and that in itself is deserving of a good jinx.
-------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Feb 17 2008, 05:42 PM
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Saucy Sorceress of the Shrinking Solution  Posts: 709 Joined: 3:03pm January 11, 2008 Location: New Jersey  |
I think for sure she is right to have jinxed the paper. It was clear that Umbridge was BAD. I mean look at what she did to Harry's hand. How much worse would it be if she caught them. I think that it was a good precaution. No one would be able to be a spy for Toad Face, they didnt have to worry about that. I think even if she didnt tell them, who can get mad at them for what ever happens, I mean they betrayed the DA...worse I say then any jinx they have to deal with....
-------------------- Maybe if you ate more comfort food, you wouldn't have to go around shooting people. ~Hurley
 Thanks twiddlethosedials for the siggy |
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Feb 17 2008, 06:23 PM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 13 Joined: 2:24pm January 30, 2008 Location: New York, NY |
I don't think Hermione was wrong to jinx the paper of all the signatures when forming the D.A. She's very smart in thinking things through and taking precautions of anyone who betrays the group. By betraying the group Marietta Edgecomb ratted on Prof. Umbridge about the D.A.
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Feb 18 2008, 01:18 AM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 185 Joined: 6:07am January 24, 2008 Location: Australia |
QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Feb 18 2008, 07:12 AM)  I don't think Hermione was wrong to jinx the paper to help preserve their secrecy, but I do think she should have warned the DA about the consequences. I agree with you on this. While I believe that Marietta deserved punishment of some sort for her betrayal of the DA, Hermione should have let them know what would happen to them if they did decide to tell anyone about it, so that everyone knew what they were getting themselves into. Although, on the other hand, if they did know what would occur if they betrayed the DA, then Marietta may not have been so shocked about what happened when SNEAK appeared on her face, and would have been able to supply more information. So my conclusion is that maybe while Hermione should have said there were consequences to betraying the DA, it would have been unwise to say what the exact repurcussions would be, in order to maintain shock value. I hope this makes some sense 
-------------------- "It's not food anymore Dean, it's Darwinism!" - Sam Winchester  |
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Feb 18 2008, 01:34 AM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 192 Joined: 6:38pm February 15, 2008 Location: The Grindylow Swamp |
QUOTE(Rinzy @ Feb 18 2008, 02:18 AM) QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Feb 18 2008, 07:12 AM) I don't think Hermione was wrong to jinx the paper to help preserve their secrecy, but I do think she should have warned the DA about the consequences. I agree with you on this. While I believe that Marietta deserved punishment of some sort for her betrayal of the DA, Hermione should have let them know what would happen to them if they did decide to tell anyone about it, so that everyone knew what they were getting themselves into. Although, on the other hand, if they did know what would occur if they betrayed the DA, then Marietta may not have been so shocked about what happened when SNEAK appeared on her face, and would have been able to supply more information. So my conclusion is that maybe while Hermione should have said there were consequences to betraying the DA, it would have been unwise to say what the exact repurcussions would be, in order to maintain shock value. I hope this makes some sense I agree with this, though I think that the spell should wear of somewhat faster than it did. Perhaps if the person should apologise, Hermione would give her a cure, as I think that it's somewhat harsh to walk around with SNEAK on your face (in pimples) for years! It is mention in H-BP (I think it's that book...) that Maretta still has the pimples. -------------------- "You look in excellent health to me, Potter, so you will excuse me if I don't let you off homework today. I assure you that if you die, you need not hand it in." -Professor McGonagall |
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Feb 18 2008, 01:57 AM
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 216 Joined: 1:28am June 27, 2007 Location: Hogwarts library, trying to get through exam work |
QUOTE(Rinzy @ Feb 18 2008, 01:18 AM) QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Feb 18 2008, 07:12 AM) I don't think Hermione was wrong to jinx the paper to help preserve their secrecy, but I do think she should have warned the DA about the consequences. I agree with you on this. While I believe that Marietta deserved punishment of some sort for her betrayal of the DA, Hermione should have let them know what would happen to them if they did decide to tell anyone about it, so that everyone knew what they were getting themselves into. Although, on the other hand, if they did know what would occur if they betrayed the DA, then Marietta may not have been so shocked about what happened when SNEAK appeared on her face, and would have been able to supply more information. So my conclusion is that maybe while Hermione should have said there were consequences to betraying the DA, it would have been unwise to say what the exact repurcussions would be, in order to maintain shock value. I hope this makes some sense Agree here! I personally believe that was a really smart move by Hermione, and Marietta so deserved what happened to her, but perhaps should have told the DA that there would be serious repurcussions if they told on them. Maybe not the exact thing, but a slight warning. Maybe if Marietta had taken her seriousely, she might never have told on them, and if she still had, then the shack value was totally worth it! -------------------- "The Aurors are part of the Rotfang Conspiracy, I thought everyone knew that. They're working from within to bring down the Ministry of Magic using a combination of Dark magic and gum disease."
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Feb 18 2008, 02:50 AM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
QUOTE(Rinzy @ Feb 18 2008, 01:18 AM) While I believe that Marietta deserved punishment of some sort for her betrayal of the DA, Hermione should have let them know what would happen to them if they did decide to tell anyone about it, so that everyone knew what they were getting themselves into. Although, on the other hand, if they did know what would occur if they betrayed the DA, then Marietta may not have been so shocked about what happened when SNEAK appeared on her face, and would have been able to supply more information. So my conclusion is that maybe while Hermione should have said there were consequences to betraying the DA, it would have been unwise to say what the exact repurcussions would be, in order to maintain shock value. I hope this makes some sense I don't know, it would depend on how much Hermione said about the curse. If she said the curse was really long-lasting, and almost impossible to remove, I don't think Marietta would have ratted them out. But if all she said that you would be jinxed, then yes, that could very well have led to Marietta giving up more info, as she would have been prepared for the curse. -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Feb 18 2008, 05:50 AM
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Saucy Sorceress of the Shrinking Solution Posts: 709 Joined: 3:03pm January 11, 2008 Location: New Jersey |
I think that they all knew how serious things were at Hogwarts with Umbridge running things or else they wouldnt have needed to form the DA. The secrecy of it was part of how it protected them. And I think the only people who signed it that would have a problem with it were those who had thoughts of betraying them to Umbridge for their own gain.
-------------------- Maybe if you ate more comfort food, you wouldn't have to go around shooting people. ~Hurley
Thanks twiddlethosedials for the siggy |
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Feb 19 2008, 01:20 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 151 Joined: 1:18pm February 1, 2005 Location: Department of Mysteries |
What was the point of the jinx? If it was to actually protect the DA from disclosure, then Hermione fouled up by not telling the group about there being consequences for disclosing them. As it now stands, it was just a mean-spirited way of getting back at whoever ratted them out.
So I'm not impressed with Hermione here. Also in OOTP, her hat knitting is another somewhat related instance of less than stellar performance: it didn't give the House Elves any free choice. (There's a thread on why it wouldn't work anyway.) She hid the hats trying to trick the Elves into picking them up. They rightly resented that, and again I'm not impressed with Hermione thinking she knows what is best for others without disclosing it. |
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