Posting in the "Irrationnal Fears" thread, I started wondering...
As anyone else here been confronted by this big, mean, monster? Because in my mind, that's how I pictured sexual abuse. It's a big, mean monster which can destroy someone, espacially a child. And that's how we often picture an abuser too. Until you wake up one day and realise that you've been looking at one for so many years, and he's no big mean monster!

In our case, he's a 15 years old teenager (12 at the beginning of the abuse...) who abused many of his younger family members! He has 5 victims... 4 of which are family members! He ain't ugly or disfigured... I thought he was a normal teenager... Yet, he sexually abused (I mean, think of it, and he did it to my boy's 9 years old cousin...) 5 other kids.

I'll admit he's been on my mind a lot since I found out he was out of juvenile detention. He's been classified as a sex offender with sexual deviency (or something that sounds like that). I know he's under many very strict conditions: can't go anywhere near a family party or any other gathering, public pools, beaches, campings and such are strictly forbidden, he has to be home by 9 O'clock at night and they call to make sure he's there, etc. Still, I wonder, how will I react if I come face to face with him? And what if I'm with my 2½ years old?... I don't know if he or his mother knows that I know...

Working in a daycare, we've had cases of kids who we knew had been sexually abused and in which cases the social services were involved. We've also dealt with cases where we had suspicions, but nothing to back it up... But it never really "touched ground" so close...

I guess I just need to hear from others. Hear about their experiences, feelings, they way they dealt with it... Did you know the abuser? I mean, the first time I met this kid he was 7 years old... I never, ever would have believed...

I met a young boy just like this - knew him personally - and it's the back story to the abuse that is most horrible for me. The young boy who did so was made into the husband/father figure by his mother, and she slept in bed with him, encouraged him to act as her boyfriend. She even asked him for opinions on men, and included this 12 year old boy in adult conversations.

Later she admitted that when asleep (she was extremely large and had sleep apnoea) that she would often wake up and feel like she had had sex - it was later found that the boy was having sex with his mother while she was asleep - and was later discovered abusing his five year old sister.

While what he did was deplorable, his mother set him up for this all the way by indicating to him that he was "the man of the house" with all the rights and privileges that this allows, with no responsibility. He will now have a label for life, and no moral compass because of this stupid woman.

The odd thing is that when you think of sexual abuse, the image in your mind is of an adult pervert (because these are the ones who make the news headlines) - yet research in this country showed that a large percentage was committed by teenage boys, often brothers or step brothers of their victims. Was anyone really surprised when this 'fact' was presented as news - I seriously doubt it. I can remember having a discussion with someone who was always concerned when their daughter visited friends' houses about what the friend's father was like. And I said never mind the father, what about her older brothers and cousins - they're far more likely to be abusers.

Minerva31,

Last night I had written a reply about my own experiences for a first hand response. Since my home computer sucks, the reply went off to the Land of Og and is gone forever.

The gist of my reply was to tell you that I very recently got into a discussion with co-workers and somehow we had fallen upon this topic. Since I had worked with these people for a year at this point I divulged a few secrets, glossing over the details, for obvious reasons Some of those details were, I was 9 he was 12. I liked this boy very much and he used that to his advantage. It started off with video games and kid stuff. In the blink of an eye, it wasn't kid stuff anymore.

Anyways, the two men there both told me that what happened to me was perfectly normal and I was being too sensitive and get over it. When I confirmed that they understood that I wasn't playing doctor with this boy nor was I a willing participant, they still maintained that what he did was no big deal. I tried again to make them understand... I said,"If your nine-year-old niece came to you and told you this happened? I also asked the other man (who wants to have kids) "What if it was your daughter? What would you say?"

The first guy didn't answer, he just looked at me, well, how men look at a woman when she is being "unreasonable". I know every woman here knows that headshake/grin look.

Anyways, the second man told me that he had done the same thing to HIS SISTER!! And his sister doesn't blame him because it was normal. His response to my question about his future daughter was...

"I would tell her that the boy is just trying to discover his sexuality and to not take it personally". This is someone who wants to have kids yet I'm weird because I'm undecided.

Anyways, my point for responding to your post is this. I first want to tell you that I did not tell anyone what happened for years. I grew up in an AfterSchool Special with a drunk for a mother and a father, who was great, but avoided the house like crazy because of my Mom. When my Mom found out she said, "Oh, I would have given that boy some real problems." My response was, "What would you have done? Passed out on their couch instead?" Cruel yes, but it was the truth.

As I said before, everyone knew I had liked this boy. I had been overheard telling him to get lost and was repremanded for being rude and to be nice. I don't blame them for that, 'cause as I said, they didn't know. The numerous times this boy caught me behind the shed, the friends father who flashed me coming out of the shower by "dropping his towel" (also when I was nine). The other numerous situations that happened to me over my younger years were definitely things that shaped my world. To this day, my husband is the only male that I trust. Whenever I find myself alone with a man, no matter how innocent, I always wonder if he is going to take advantage of the situation or whatever. My brain always wanders over to the negative when it comes to human nature. I am very judgemental, I lean towards the aggressive when challenged and have an incredible sarcastic streak (think Snape). The good parts are that I'm very loyal to those close to me, my sarcastic streak lends me a wicked sense of humour (Snape again )and I am very independant and somewhat fearless.

An example for the way my brain works...

A friend of mine lives with her boyfriend of 6 years, at his parents house while she finishes school. She was heading in to take a shower and his dad said he preferred that she shower upstairs as no one else was in the house. My first thought was "I beg your pardon? What the hell was he planning on doing?" She told me his reasoning was, he couldn't hear if she fell in the shower to help her. I still think it's weird but I can understand where he was coming from.

To wrap up my long-winded email, I don't know what the boy's homelife was like nor do I care. I have done my work in therapy blah, blah blah and have let much of my past go but I will NEVER forget what happened. The positive to all of this is that I am not naive and clueless. I can see signs in people that others can't, of impending trouble. Maybe that is good or bad, I don't know. It is who I am now and I've learned to live with it.

You are more than welcome to contact me if you want to talk but I can obviously only speak for myself. I have met many other people who are much angrier than I am and/or fearful of their pasts.

Julie W

Watching the news earlier, I saw a report about 2 teenage boys who were kidnapped by a knows sex offender... I mean, the guy has a rap-sheet longer then my fore-arm!!!!! How come such a monster (yep, I'm using the word!) is still out in the street!!!!! For Heaven's sake! In the past ten years he's been found guilty about 5 times! What are the authorities, the law makers waiting for????????

Unfortunately, judges believe that the younger the victim, the easier they get over it - which is ludicrous. Often times an offender will get 3 years for a 2 year old, but 8 years for a 10 year old. It's insane.

What gets to me most is to see that very often, people will get more time if they are caught using drugs then if they kill someone because they were drunk and driving or abusing a child... It sometimes feels like a part of the old mentality is still pretty much alive of just shoving sexual abuse under a carpet, it wil disappear...

2 days ago, there was another report on the news. It's not a child, it's a young adult woman, early 20's, who was gang-raped. She was in a gang and wanted out. About 15 of htem raped her and even filmed it! When she finaly got away and back to her family, her parents called the cops. The first one to get there simply told her she should stop using drugs and took her to "Le Chainon", and left her there without any intentions on following up on her rape! It was only when her father called bakc and finaly got through to a sex crime unit that something finaly did happen! It's a bit like this old saying "She searched for it"... That's also what someone I know got. Her case went to court and everything, but the rapists were freed because it wasn't proved they had used GHB in her drink. The prossecusion had not wanted for her to have a blood test becasue she had sayd she'd had a glass of wine and they feared that the alcohol in her blood would be bad for their case. Well, she was pictured almost as a w**** by the defense lawyers... She'd been raped by 2 men she "knew": one very well known in the community and the other... a cop.

Hello everybody. I'm dropping this note to set some ground rules for this topic. Here they are:

Do not include personal identification of victims or assailants in you comments, this is in the spirit of rule 2, respect privacy. It is possible to have the discussion in this thread without calling people out by name.

Do not post graphic descriptions in your comments. The Lounge is PG-13, and we allow a great deal of leeway along those lines. Again though, it is possible to have this discussion without graphic sexual details. This is covered by the second related section of rule 1.

This cannot turn into a political discussion about the way governments deal with these issues. Some discussion of this aspect will be allowed; but if it turns into a political debate, the topic will be closed. This is covered by the third related section fo rule 1.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation. We do believe this is a valuable topic, and want to allow it to continue. Please keep those notes in mind while you post.

Thanks,
Coach
LL Moderator

How did you resist the urge of reaching over and scratching his eyes out?! And we are called the irrational sex?! I, too, have lived with unwanted, unasked for touches, thankfully nothing worse than that. But, again, it is such a demeaning position to be in, and, yes, it lives with you forever.

The good of it, is that I am raising a son, now. And when anyone says "stop," we stop. So many of his little friends don't stop, and their mothers just say, "stop" but do nothing. Makes my blood boil! Teach respect, people! (OK rant over)

In the states, you can type in your community to your state police and get a sex offender report for every sex offender that is registered and lives in your community. It will list the name, address, and level of sexual crime. Be warned, it is very frightening to see how many there are! In my old community, 20 of some of the worst criminals were living within 4 blocks of one of our favorite parks! Needless to say, we didn't go to that park anymore. I came to know of this resourse when a registered offender was planning to move into our neighborhood. The police only alerted the four houses around the house he was planning to purchase. There was a daycare three houses down, and a school a field away! The neighborhood swarmed with children! Although illegal, one of the four houses copied the information given to them and posted it all around the neighborhood. It had his picture and other stats on it. Since his identity was "blown" and his right to privacy "ruined" he chose not to move in after all.

I'm sorry but... What right to privacy???????? Someone who sexualy abused another person, wether child or adult has no right to privacy in my opinion! What about our right to be and feel safe? What about our children's right to grow up in a physically and emotionaly secure environment???? *taking a deep breath before I say too much...

Right to privacy... So he can go and sit in a park near by and handpick his next victim???

Though a disturbing news, I'm still glad we were told about what had happen to my spouse's godson, and espacially of who had done it. We know this teenager and now, I know I'll never leave my kid under his watch, even for a second. Not in a million years! And if there are others like him in my neighborhood, I'd like to know! But laws here don't give permission for such notice... Unless things have changed in the last few days...

Edited to had...

I can't be a 100% sure but... Other then Coach, it seems like only women are "willing" to discuss the subject of sexual abuse...

And also, I was wondering... What do you define as sexual abuse? To me, the guy who grabs me by the hips, from behind when I'm on a dance floor and proceeds to press his body against mine and "rub" hisself is, to a lesser degree, abusing me. He never asked if I wanted to dance with him!!! He is invading "my space". This happened to me many time when I was single and going out to dance. I never went to a club to "meet" someone. I love dancing, period. I'm not saying I would press charges on the guy, but he definitly got the general idea of what I thought about his behavior!

To me, the teacher who used to come and take a look inside the girls bathroom in grade school, "to see if we were done changing", was an abuser (I today fear he did more then just show up in our bathrooms...). I think there are different levels of sexual abuse and that the impact on the one being abused (whether children, women or men) is different depending on each individual...

Personally, I think that this is a huge mistake. It gives the impression that if you know the places and people to avoid, your children will be safe. If this sort of legislation was introduced into Australia, I would never look - as only 1 in 6 offenders are ever discovered (1 in 5 males and 2 in 3 females - females tend to confess and recognise it as wrong (as it is disjunctive with social ideals of motherhood, not cause they are any better).

So you might avoid your favourite park, and choose another, not realising that many abusers live near there - just they're more dangerous because there's no awareness about them. The only solution is to pay attention, and keep them safe. This sort of legislation only really protects children from a sixth of these people, if that.

How did I resist? Let me tell you.....

It's ironic that I'm often told that I still have anger issues, but I don't recall climbing over the table and poking him in the eye like I wanted to. I just felt sad for them that they will be the cause of more ugliness in the world.

In the old days I would have raised my voice an octave, shrieked obscenities at how horrible of a person he was, maybe even thrown a drink blah blah blah.

I say again, these are the kind of people who think they know me, but they are wrong.

Dear Julie, you're not who is wrong here. This is not normal. This is not acceptable. Abuse is abuse. It doesn't help that the offender is to young to be put to jail - it's wrong, either way. And what your collegue is saying and doing is pretty close to harassment too. We, as women, should be respected, our independency and right to decide over our own bodies should be respected, and men should be realizing that women's liberation isn't only about the right to say yes, but also about the right to say no. This goes whatever age, whoever asking. I am sorry for what happened to you, and I am glad you're capable of talking about it - it most certainly has helped you moving on from what happened. Take care.

I had a friend (and no, "friend" is not code for "me"-my dad is fabulous) who was sexually abused by her father. I never properly met him-didn't want to. She turned him in, but he only confessed to one count of rape/incest, so he wasn't tried by his peers. He was sentenced to only six years in prison. He's out now. It started when she was fourteen and she didn't turn him in until she was 17. He physically abused her too and almost killed her one time by slamming her head against the concrete. Their house was incredibly dirty and she slept in the laundry room that was slightly larger than a walk-in closet. We were in the school choir together for a couple of years before we really became friends. She always acted strangely about her family, especially her dad. We were friends for a few months before she told me. During that time we were at a party at our friend's house and her dad came by to yell at her because there were boys there. It was scary. She is now crazy and I mean that. She is bipolar with no medicine and a pathological liar. I'm not friends with her anymore because she is a victim instead of a survivor. She uses it as an excuse for everything. My best friend now was emotionally and physically abused by her father, but she is a survivor, not a victim. It doesn't define who she is. I should say that my family tried to help my friend who was sexually abused as much as possible. At age 18 (and still in high school) her mom kicked her out, so she lived with us. She lived with us until her second year of college. I kicked her out because I couldn't stand to watch her cheat on an awesome guy who had become my friend with her ex. That was the last straw. She eventually married and divorced her ex; he was abusive, like I told her he would be. She told my mom when she moved back into town after her divorce (she visited my mom's office at the college) that I was right. That's the last I heard from her.

I’m sorry if my story is not exactly on topic but I think it’s very important to prevent such events.

When I was 11 or somewhat something strange happened to me. I have a sister 2 years younger than me. I don’t know how it happened but one day we decided to play while my parents were out. We were jumping on sofa & on floor and then decided to play naked. It was strange and unusual for us both... We built a hovel of clothes, were hiding there watching at each other with some interest...Such games happened several times... Well, I was too young and I didn’t know how to use my “tool” (excuse me for my French), so I think this prevented our “contact”. The only thing I knew was it’s forbidden to have such strange relationships between siblings or with other relatives (it’s called “incest” or somewhat), so I decided to finish off such strange games, because I was afraid of them and especially about my sister’s unsound mind. I didn’t want her to grow up with those forbidden reminiscences. I hope she forgot about them... but I still blame myself... I’m glad I stopped that and we never talked about since that day (I don’t want to remind her about, I’m afraid she would recall something, though nothing wrong happened — we just saw each other naked — it often happens in family when parents wash their children together thinking it’s OK and children wouldn’t recall about).

That’s why I wrote in some topic of this forum several months ago about the importance of sexual education: I knew nothing about, that’s why I was so close to make the greatest mistake of my life, but fortunately I was lucky enough to catch the idea of something wrong by myself and to stop it while it’s not too late...

Some years later another story happened. We were at home, my sister was taking a shower, and when she just finished, the bulb in the bathroom blew up and pieces of glass fell down into the bath-tub. Luckily my sister left the tub just before the blast, but we all were so frightened that my mom demanded to open the door, so sister did it — she was naked but she wasn’t hurt, just frightened. Well, when I saw her naked I felt only confusion (and she did, as I mentioned) — that’s normal. So I know now that I’m not a pervert, and she grew up a usual adolescent.

But still I feel guilty... How do you think, may I forgive myself for that? For this always follows me and makes me feel dirty...

To me, the important part of all that you've wrote was that you could feel it would be wrong to go on any further. This shows morals, values. So your parents definitly did somethign right while raising you! This is the difference with a pedophile: to a pedophile, there is nothing wrong with what he's doing, to him, it's just "loving a child"... (Grrrrrr!! I always feel like lashing at something when I hear this reply coming out of their mouths!)

At 11, you were still "discovering" your body, your identity, your sexual identity. So wanting to get naked with a girl is "normal". Though I know that by today's standard, children grow up way much faster then we did way back when I was 11 in the sexual venue... I look at my niece who's 13 and the way she talks and acts is million miles away from where I was at her age!

I Know someone who was abused by her brother. She was only 5 at the time. The brother abused both his sisters. They were 5 and 3, he was 9. When things finally came to ahead her Mother, found out because the little sister's short was ripped and their mother wanted to know why. The 5 year old didn't know any different and was raised to tell the truth, did just that she told how they were ripped by her brother and what had been going on leading up to that fact.
I must say here that the Mother had been abused as a child by her own father. So you would think she would have insight and sympathy for this child. But it didn't happen. She call the child all kind of names that I won't say here. And hated the child for taking away her son. The son was from a previous marriage.
This child growed up to be strong in her own right, but her real strength was when she was almost raped by her dad's friend, beat up by a boyfriend, and forced to almost do lewed acts. She decided it would never happen again. She would go down fighting before she let one more man hurt her. She told her brother's wife about what her brother had done, and she laughed. She told her I hope you never have a girl, yet it happens to boys too. She's never seen her nephew but she hopes he's never suffered her fate.
I tell you all this because abuse is a cycle. It happens and in some way it keeps repeating. You have to decided to stop this cycle.
The child asked her parents about what they remember, because unforuntately when you have a baby, sometimes the abuse can haunt you in child birth. So she wanted to get it out in the open because it had been a dark family secret that no one talked about. Her dad said I don't know what you're talking about and her mother said I thought it was a dream.
In order to survive you have to be strong, and determined. And unforuntately you're never really able to trust anyone again. You're always waiting for that other shoe to drop, you're more weary of people and you can spot bad people right away.
Thanks for letting me write all this, it makes me stronger. I won't say what I wish for sex offenders but it isn't pretty. Keep your children safe, love them, look for the signs, don't turn your back on them when they're in crisis.

hello all. you know what ive realized? you find support for almost everything in such strange places. i mean this is a place for harry potter. but we seem to have an amazing community here that cares more about each other than any other place i have been. =)

when i was 10, i was molested by a neighbor boy who used to babysit me and my brother. nothing to the extreme, but it would have gotten there if it hadnt been for my gpa. you know how people pat you on the knee and tell you that you did a good job when youve done something well? my gpa did this to me. it was an innocent guesture, not sexual in any way shape or form. i told my gpa oh! my babysitter does that but he does such and such. my gpa asked if i had told my mom. and im pretty sure i said yes even though i hadnt.

needless to say that boy never babysat me again.

fast forward to when i was 16. one of my friends said something to me online about how 1 in 10 young boys are molested by the time they turn 15, and 1 in 5 girls are molested by the time theyre 15. i completely freaked out on my friend because what had been happening when i was 10 totally hit me and i realized what had happened. it took me 6 years to finally realize/ remember what had happened.

fast forward again to almost a year ago. i had just turned 19. me and a bunch of my friends were watching sin city. i watched up to the part where the little girl is on the dock and that guy just saved her. i completely flipped out. because i knew that could have been me, except i wouldnt have known what was really going on like that little girl did.

since then ive become very defensive about things concerning children and sexual abuse. ive been known to scream at people about it. people who have absolutly no idea what it's like. and i break down every once in a while. usually after screaming at someone.

i wish it would never happen again. i wouldnt even wish what ive been through and what ive felt on my worst enemy. and i know that what i went through, what im going through, is mild compared to some people.
-kel

Minerva31
Yes, luckily I could feel it’s wrong! But still do you agree that parents should talk to their children about such things just to prevent contacts between their little ones and with other kids? Because the final of this story can be very unhappy!

By the way, I’ve heard about the 6 years-old girl who gave birth to a child from her grandpa (drunk sailor) at USSR times (I’m not kidding, there’re videos depicting the pregnant 6 years-old girl and her parturition)! So we always should remember about it can be too late to talk! Even at the age of 6!

Jeez, I must say I didn’t know it’s so common (I mean these abuses)! For Russia it’s so rare that we just hear about from news! But maybe Russians prefer just to keep everything in secret, especially from militia (our police)? Anyway the real problem of our families is the domestic violence...

My daughter is 7 now, and ever since she srarted potty training at 2, we have talked about who should and shouldn't touch and where. I even told her I or her dad shouldn't even touch her in certain areas. To this day, and I'm 33, my mother never told me about touching, never told me about sex, never said a word, and look where it got me. Yes my earlier post was about myself. So yes you need to talk to your kids, just like you talk about strangers, you should have that touching talk too. Unforunately my brother in law is a sexual predator, he was arrested for looking at under age porn, my first thought is did he do something with my child? He didn't, thank God. But then later on it's my nephew abusing his brothers and the question comes up again. Answer is still no. Kids at my daughter's age know more about sex than I did at her age. It's scary. You've got to talk to your kids and let them know it's not okay to play doctor if it invovles alot of touching in the wrong places, that even going to the doctor you have to be careful. where ever you go where ever you do like Mad Eye Moody said constant viligance.

The scariest thing about this subject, to me, is how often it happens, and how little it's spoken of. I mean, 1 in 5? That's just insane. I know my mother was abused as a child, and completely blocked it out until she was 20-something, and then remembered everything because she was finally in a situation where she felt safe. It's creepy to think you can do that... I wonder what I've blocked out?

blocking it out can become a problem. one problem is that when the person does remember, they tend to have a harder time dealing with it than if they had grown up knowing what had happened and dealt with it as time progressed. another problem is that if the person blocks it out, then it's like it never happened and the predator doesnt get caught. =(

I'm kinda reviving this topic...

*sigh* I'm kind of caught in the middle here. On one side, there's the victim and his family, which I know on many front. I went to school with the father, the mom's sister was a friend of mine way back when... and they are part of my significant other's family... On the other side, there's the abuser and his family, which I also know for different reasons... His grand-mother is my boss, but also the victim's grand-mother... His aunt was a firend of mine, and I know him...
I feel caught in the middle because, it seems the grand-mother (my boss) doesn't understand her daughter and daughter's husband's feelings towards the abuser and all that happen. She feels they are destroying the family and should e able to get over this.
Personnaly, I would react the same way they are if my son had been abused during 3 years by his cousin. I wouldn't want him to be in the same room or even under the same roof as the abuser... But I don't know what to do when she talks about it in front of me. I just shut up and don't say a word. She's my boss... But I just don't get her reaction. She fostered many abused girls... How can she react like what her grandson did to her other grandson is nothing?

Well, some people will just never see it as the violation it is. I don't think that anything you say will ever make it clear to her, so I personally wouldn't bother. It is possible that she was sexually abused herself, and believes in the "power through it" option, or that she feels that it causes a lot of unnecessary fuss - there are people who feel this way.

Oh this is such a difficult situation to be in! Is the fact that the holidays are upon us causing extra problems? (Obviously a "family" Christmas would be tough to try and organise!)
And it is hard to write about, because I don't want what I say to be misread! Because I don't know the people involved, I can only speak in generalities, and from personal experiences.

A lot of it goes back to prior misconceptions that all abusers are 'monsters' and we should be able to spot them from 500 paces. I can certainly understand the attitude of the victim's parents, - their anger, rage, and wanting the abuser to stay as far from everyone in their lives as possible. I agree that he should not be a part of their lives. The fact that they are related can make this difficult, as you have seen. One of the worst things is that everyone is put into a position where they must chose one "side" or the other. From an outside perspective, this choice appears easy ~ Of course the welfare of the victim should be considered first and foremost.
The difficulties arise because the abuser is someone that everyone has also known all his life, and they know that he is more than a sexual predator, they have seen him through good and bad times - and while his parent's might abhor what he has done, they still love their child. The same applies to the Grandmother.

This is very personal to me, and I have been candid in the past about this - in my case, the abuse happened between ages 10 - 14, and the abuser was a blood relative, about 6 years older than I.
Apparently I told my best friend, and she responded very badly. (To this day however, I have no memory of this, but she remembers it vividly) How could I even imagine thinking up a story like that? That was horrible, it wasn't funny, and she didn't want to speak to me again. (She was 10, I bear her no ill will, but she has never truly forgiven herself.) As a result, I didn't tell anyone else, and I did suppress the memories. It was quite a shock when they resurfaced at age 19. Strangely enough, it was the same friend who helped me keep my sanity, because she remembered my 'confession' from all those years earlier. She was there after every "nightmare", each memory that resurfaced, and was my rock throughout. I suspect that my continued insomnia has a lot to do with that time!
Even after my memories were clear - I didn't do anything about it. I finally told my older sister a few years later, and she realised pretty quickly who the abuser was, and told me that she would tell our Mother.
I completely fell apart when she said that - I saw it as a threat, and told her that I would deny it. I would call her a liar, and I would leave. None of them would ever see my daughter or I again, because I was afraid of the reactions from the rest of the family. (It was a foolish, and rather "text-book" reaction - I was afraid that I would be blamed, I would be responsible for destroying the family, just the fact that it happened made me weak, and dirty, and wrong.) Whenever that sister came to stay, I was terrified that she would say something - especially since my abuser was generally there at the same time.
In hindsight - if the position was reversed, I probably would have told our Mother - but my sister stayed silent. Which isn't to say that she did nothing. She is a Psychologist, and decided that the best way to approach it was as if I were one of her patients (as far as confidentiality went) and she helped me so much. The truth did come out, however - when another, younger male, relative moved back in with us, and told that he had been abused by the same person. I was wracked with guilt - if I had told the truth, he might never have had to go through it. (I have always been grateful for his response; "I can't blame you for that - I didn't tell either.")

My Mother was devastated, but the night she asked me why I never told her ~ quite upset that I had thought all those years that she wouldn't have believed me ~ all I could say was that I didn't want to be the one to tell her what her "Golden Haired Boy" was.

I noticed my Mother's distress levels rising around this time of that year - and one night, her "dilemma" hit me. I went to her, and told her that I didn't expect her to choose between us. I know that what he did was unforgivable (maybe some people can forgive it - but I'm not that big a person!) but I also know how much she loved him, and I was not going to hold it against her if she wanted to see him. All I asked was that if he were to come to our home, I knew when, so that I could be elsewhere with my daughter. The relief was immediate, and she said that she didn't feel like reaching out to him at that point - but if he called her, she would see him, but she would see him somewhere else.

I know that I am lucky - my whole (extended) family have believed me, and been supportive. I'm sure that my age helped, and the fact that I had gotten some help. I do get twinges, knowing that some of them have chosen to stay close to him, but I have to respect their decision - as long as they don't try to make me see, talk to, or "make up" with him. I can only imagine the problems involved with a family trying to cope in the centre of the storm, when both victim and abuser are so young - but I can imagine that their are mixed feelings of guilt, anger, defensiveness, sorrow, and about a million other emotions going through so many of the family members - especially the parent's and the grand mother.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you.

Lilly

Ive been reading some of your posts but cant read anymore. i was never sexually abused, but did suffer some physical abuse (not really terrible, but it happened nonetheless) as a teenager, and i just want to say to those of you who have suffered at the hands of some ... well i dont even know what to say. I hope my children never have to suffer like that. you are incredibly brave to be able to talk about it here.
kx

Lilly, your story is so close to the one I'm talking about... The victim was about 5 or 6 years old when it all started, there was a change in his temper and reactions, but everyone blamed it on the death of his godmother... The abuser is 6 or 7 years older... Seriously, if you'd seen him 3 years ago, you wouldn't have believed he was only 13! He was 6' 2" and weighed about 240 lbs!



To this day, and even though he knows the cops went to his house and talked to his parents, the victim denies it, saying "You're not supposed to know. It was a secret." The abuser is the mother's godson. For years before she had her own children, she treated him like her own son...



I feel for you. We might be on opposite side of the planet (heck, I'm in Québec!), but I'm giving you a hugg anyway!



*sigh*

I just wish my boss would stop talking about it around me. I don't think it's right for everyone involved. The parents of the victims are involved where I work. The grand-mother is my boss... Do others who work with us need to know about all of this?

Minerva ~ Hugs from Quebec are gratefully received!

I completely understand how you feel about the Grandmother talking about it - Although it does seem very selfish of her, maybe it will help her in the long run (and yet, still sounding selfish!) I don't suppose that there is a way that you can say to her "I feel very confused about all of this, and if you would like to talk about it privately, that's fine - but it makes me uncomfortable to hear you talking about it at work" (I'm sure that you have said this many times, without words!)

My main concern is for the victim - if he is still confused about what is 'allowed' to be told, even with Police intervention, that is very sad. "Protective Behaviour"is something that I have gone to schools to help teach, and it is crucial for children to know that they not only *should* tell secrets like that, they *must*.

~ I remember being at my sisters house one day, (different sister) and my Daughter (who would have been about 6 or 7 at the time) came in and told me that her cousin (my sisters son) had hit her. My sister's instinctive reaction was "Don't dob" (Aussie for "Don't tattle", "Don't tell on people" etc) I almost bit her head off! "Don't you ever tell my child to NOT say something if someone has hurt her!" I said a lot more than that - but that was the first and most important line. My daughter knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if someone hurt her - in any way - she was to tell me, and I was so shocked that my sister would come out with such a statement. She almost laughed it off - it was something that we had all grown up with, not "telling" on someone. ~ I remember getting into trouble at school or from my father when we were children, and how confusing was that? Going to a grown-up to say that someone had hit me, and getting into trouble, or being hit again, for being a "dobber"!!
There was no way that I was going to give any child under my care that sort of mixed (and messed up) message! My sister stopped laughing very quickly, and apologised. I don't know if her son continued to get into trouble for 'telling' - but I know that she never dared say anything like that to my child again.

In that particular case, her cousin had hit her on the arm, over some silly argument - hadn't caused any damage, in fact there wasn't even a red mark - all I would have done was check where she was hit, and say something very vague like "Thank you for telling me." (That was pretty much my standard reaction - "Thank you for telling me." Because often kids just do want to be heard. I said the same thing to her cousin, friend or whichever child came to me - and it worked well. I didn't get into any fights with the kids or their parents, the children learned that they could come to me safely, and it even helped them work the arguments out themselves! Sometimes it was amusing to hear them after they had come and told me, because I would calm them down, thank them for letting me know, and they would race back out to the other child/children involved and say "You're not allowed to hit me anymore!" ....tension reduced, children playing happily again.) I guess the most important part was that they did know they could come and tell me, without judgement, without it turning into a huge drama and ruining the afternoon - and that made them feel safer. Of course, I took more action than that if someone was hurt - but they knew that too.

The Motto at our home was always No-one has the right to hurt you, or make you feel unsafe
- it must have been heartbreaking for my Mother to know that even with teaching us all that, she was still unable to keep us safe. One of her biggest fears was that we would be "damaged" by the dozens of homeless kids who ended up living with us, but the abuse that happened started before any of them came into the picture. It had nothing to do with them.

My other concern for the little boy in question - and I don't know when or if this will be an issue, but I feel it is important - the boy victim in my family was very concerned about his sexuality throughout his preteen, teen years. He knew that he was attracted to girls, he wasn't homophobic at all, but did what happen to him mean that he was gay? It was something that really haunted him.

One of the most confusing things, and something that can be hard for a lot of people to cope with, is that not all sexual abuse is violent and painful. That is one of the ways the abuser can gain power over the victim - and a way of rationalising it to themselves "I didn't hurt you" "It felt good" ~ and that can be a powerful weapon. In my case, I only fought back once - I learned very quickly that just giving in was a lot easier - but I have known several women who have felt guilty their whole lives because they were put into the role as The seductress (I am sure this happens with male victims as well, my experience has been primarily with female victims) I even knew one woman who had believed for many years that her father had been taken away because her mother was jealous of their "relationship".
Face it - sex can feel very good, if it didn't the species would have died out by now! When I was working at the schools, my talking about that aspect of sexual abuse was the cause of some very heated debate - but I felt that the children in that situation needed to be told that they were not at fault. It is always the responsibility of the adult to draw the line. (or the older child, if they are not legally an adult) Too often the victims of a 'gentle' abuser feel as if they have no right to complain ("so many people have it worse") or they feel complicit in their abuse, even confusing it with a relationship. Letting them know that it was not their fault in any way, is so important to recovery.

Lilly

This is not a topic that I expected to find here but I'm glad that I have. I'm not sure if I have the right words for this but I'll give it a try.
I've been abused by a sibling who was older than myself. This started when I was around 4 or 5 for about a year. The family was never truly whole because this disease ran wild in my family.
My mother was raped by her uncle who is still invited to family get-togethers. She warned my sisters about him but not me. Or I don't remember her telling me about this (1 time when I was maybe 2 or 3). He has raped several of the women in our family and abused many of the children (girls and boys). I have my sisters to thank for keeping me away from him. The last time I saw him he was telling my Dad how attractive I've become ("after having several kids too" he said). It made my skin crawl. He said this in front of me and my Dad said nothing. My mom didn't even tell me he was going to be there! I brought my children! Needless to say I was more than a little angry.
My own experience with my brother did not come out until I was 11. He had been abused and he really can't forgive himself for what he has done to me. It isn't him that I truly blame. Anyway, I told a teacher who had to call my parents. I was then forced to tell my parents what happened and that I knew it wasn't their fault and that they still loved me. The anger I feel about this can't be put into words. The only siblings I see now are my sisters and both of their families have had experiences with their children being molested by others outside of the family. One of my sisters took in foster children who had been abused and both sisters were involved with abusers. I cannot ever trust my family to watch my children! I'm very sad about this. Their children are now teenagers and I don't know who of any of them may perpetuate this. Some already have.
When I was 13 I was druged. That's all I remember...being told by a friend who was there. There's another story that goes along with this, but I've almost nearly writen a book. The most important thing to me is that kids should be told not to keep secrets, Shouldn't be told not to tattle when someone hurts them, should be taught about their bodies and what is right and wrong touch. If I've missed something please tell me. I'm very frightened for my children because I can't watch them 24/7. I can only teach them and do the best with the knowledge I have.
This has all sounded like a lot of poor me, poor me, but I assure you all that I refuse to be a continued victim!!! I'm actually a fairly happy person. I've learned a lot because of all of this and I won't let it rule my entire life. Hopefully I'm wiser for it. It's helped me stand up to people who do wrong. My husband and his family have really helped me deal with this. I'm not sure where I'd be without them. My own parents offered no councel.

LadyBluJJ, it did not sound like "poor me" at all! I understand, and admire your strength - I know how hard it can be to talk about, and to try and improve things for the children who come after us. I was very arrogant in my belief that I was the only one in our family who had been abused, once I found that out, I needed to talk to my daughter about it very plainly - but she has assured me that there is nothing she wouldn't have told me (and, considering the things she did tell me, andthe way she stood up for herself, I believe this to be true.) As the family member in question does seek out younger people to "befriend", she told all of her friends, so they knew that he was not a "safe" person to go to, which they all would have considered him to be, since they had that view of me and my family.

The fact that you were made to comfort your parents for your abuse is something that should never have happened. Well - obviously none of it should have happened, but your feelings and security should have been the main issue at that point!

The balance of keeping our children safe, yet not scaring them senseless is a difficult thing. One of the tools used in Protective Behaviours is using your fingers to "count" the number of people you should tell. Preferably Grown-ups, whether it is neighbours, relatives, teachers, police - but make them think of specific people ("Mrs _____" rather than "A Teacher") and also that once you have told, you have to keep telling until someone helps. If they run out of fingers on the one hand, they still have another hand. If they run out of fingers, they have toes. If, after fingers and toes, they still need help, it is ok to start again, or to use a friends hand - the message is that yes - they must tell, and they mustn't be destroyed if the first person they tell doesn't help. This resonated very strongly with me, after my experience with telling my friend. I was so frightened by her attitude that I clammed up.
Also - if a friend tells them something that disturbs or upsets them (a terrible secret) make sure that they know they are allowed to tell, even if it breaks a promise, to help that friend.

The only way to break this cycle is to do our best to keep our children safe, and give them the ability - and the words - to keep themselves safe! That is also important - even if I wanted to tell people what was happening to me, at 10 I knew nothing. I honestly did not understand what was happening - I knew it was wrong - but that was about it.


Lilly

Well, this is a huge problem. And for parents, parents all got to be very carefull with they daughters.
It´s not a matter or being too protective, the problem is the high level of danger.

At least in this part of the world (And as far as I know, many others), the 95% of girls and teenage girls had, at least , one experience of sexual abuse, any kind of sexual abuse in their life.
And the percentage of girls abused in the highest level is big, too big.

The problem is huge, I think there should be radical change of education of the populatinon of men.
And, for worst, a percentage of girl are abused by their own fathers, brothers, cousins or uncles.

Uyy

Although many think that girls are in greater danger we need to educate our boys just the same as our girls. We cannot give girls and boys different info. There may be a lot more men who are offenders but there are women out there who are just as bad. Let's just say parents need to be very careful to watch and educating both their boys and girls.

I agree that both boys and girls equally need to be educated. There is a need to teach them what is appropriate and what isn't. It is important to teach them that they can tell an adult if someone has done something they don't like or said things that they feel is wrong.


In my work, we often see children discovering their bodies. And that's ok. I only get concerned if I see that one is pushing it on the other; this implies a more specific talk with that child, alone without other children watching or listening. I use every opportunites to teach the children who ar daily under my care about their bodies and appropriate touch and inappropriate behavior.

My personal experience of "sexual" abuse was related in the thread about bad teachers... A male teacher coming in the girls bathrooms way too often... But I lived it in another form. years later as an adult, but it was more psychological. I was in a relationship for 4 years. That person was manipulative... If I was to say no one night because I was tired or felt bad, it was "You never want to do it. You don't care..." to a point that I would give in and let him do what he wanted to do. No fun in it for me... And there was more, but I don't want to get into it. I was an adult, I made a mistake; I stayed too long.


A child doesn't have the same knowledge, the same possibility of packing up and leaving. It's our jobe as adults to protect them.
I hate those pedophile who claim high and wide that they love children... How sick can you be to believe that what you are doing to a child is to love them when you are destroying they identities, they soul...
I'm getting carried away... Sorry.

No - You're not getting carried away at all. My experiences has definitely affected every part of my life. My ability to relate to other people ~ particularly with men. Trust is a huge deal for me!

Like LadyBluJJ, I don't let it define who I am, and I am a happy person, but there is no denying that I would have been a completely different person had I not gone through that. Don't get me wrong ~ I like me. But I have never had a truly healthy, "free", romantic/sexual relationship, where I felt as if I could completely trust my partner.

I know that the main topic we have discussed here has been child sexual abuse, but that doesn't make your experiences with abuse as an adult less important. The fact that you got out of it - got away, and are now married to a wonderful man, and have a loving family is something to celebrate. You are strong. Be proud of that - don't just dismiss it.

Lilly

This is one of my biggest fears: being raped and/or sexually abused by either a family member or a stranger. In fact, I am so paranoid about it, that I make sure I take a friend with me whenever I go to a party, to the mall, anywhere. I also think my fear of being abused effects my relationships. Even though I haven't been abused, I still find it hard to trust guys and even some girls. I'm afraid that they might try and take advantage of me (I'm a small, skinny girl with no strength at all) and that I won't be able to protect myself.

I know as of now I don't have any reason to be afraid *knock on wood*, but I am always watching out and making sure there's nothing that can harm me.

I would also like to add that I never realized so many people have been abused when they were younger. My stomach was knotting up as I was reading all of your posts about what happened when you were such-and-such age. I think you all deserve oodles of hugs!

For those of you who have been abused; What got you through it?

When I was very young I had playing stringed instruments, the piano, and soccer to help me get all my feelings out. I've learned to talk through some of it too though. When I'm back to having nightmares I know that there's more I need to dig through. Ahhhh-a never ending challenge in life.
It could be considered a curse but we CAN use it to strengthen and educate ourselves as well as others. Sometimes I get really P'ed off but I absolutely refuse to let it consume me or turn me into a bitter person. My hope and wish is that everyone learns to hate what these abusers do (and have done to us) but still be able to let it make us stronger. Please don't let it ruin who you have the potential to become (who you are deep down)!

This message is for anyone who may need it...I'm not targeting anyone, who posted previously, with this. The truth is that I need to remind myself too.

What got me through? Reading! I "escaped" into different worlds.
Music also helped, and acting ~ I didn't play any instruments, but I sing and performing in musicals (and plays) was such an amazing way for me to completely get away from everything.
I suppose the escape factor is the same - in books the other realities were in my head, but onstage ....well, I might be having a horrible time, but whatever character I was playing was just fine!
And even if they weren't, I had the assurance of knowing exactly what the outcome of their "adventures" was going to be! (most of the time! Occassionally another actor onstage would forget their lines and the script would go off on a tangent - but that's for another thread! )

MonieLou ~ I will never downplay the dangers for someone else, but I felt sadder after your comment than I have in a long time. Yes, be aware. Be safe. But don't let fear cripple you, or stop you from living your life. Quite often, the skills needed to escape or survive an attack doesn't take a lot of physical strength, but intelligence, and stregth of will (and I think that you have already shown that you have a pretty strong character!) Look at some of the Protective Behaviours books or websites ~ they generally have some good techniques and ideas.
I am not saying that someone who does get attacked or abused is stupid or weak - obviously - but I would hate to see anyone live any less than the life they should because of something that has, or might happen. (LadyBluJJ put it very well in her last post!)


Lilly

I can't relate to you. I'm probably not nearly as afraid as you are, but it's definitely scary. None of the men in my family have ever been sexually abusive, but some have been physically abuse. Thankfully I've never experienced anything.

But I've never had any men who've been positive role models in my life. So it makes afraid of interacting with them. Actually, it's prevented from ever even having a boyfriend. Let alone a date. Intimacy scares, and scared to death of being taken advantage of or getting cheated on.

It doesn't help that I found a convicted rapist was interested in me. I hadn't know it at the time. I found out later on. I just decided to look up his profile after I heard he had felony. My Dad told me this because he continued working in this one factory after I'd quit. I'd only worked there 3 days, and some brawd threatened to beat up just because I sat down at lunch table and didn't know the guy was boyfriend. I only sat there because it was big table and it was so empty. Later on I found out 25% of the hired workers were on parole, and some people were fired for smoking crack on the job! Thank God I didn't stay!

I don't know why I looked up the information I did. But sure enough, found the :censored: listed on the Sex Offender Registry in my state. But I'm glad I did. You can never be too safe these days.

I'm the same way, MonieLou. The thought of being raped or sexually abused terrifies me. Although I don't worry about it from my family or friends, because they're great people, and I completely trust them. But I do worry about strangers. I'm extremely small, so that doesn't help anything. I never go anywhere alone (my parents wouldn't let me even if I wanted to), and I'm very cautious. Overall, I'm not too paranoid about it, just watchful and careful.

Also, I just want to echo what MonieLou said. I didn't realize there were so many people who were abused either, and I think it's great that those of you who have posted here about being abused are able to talk about it. I doubt I could be that strong.

What got you through it?

How to answer, this is going to be tough:

I don’t know how I did it. I just shut down and disassociated myself as if it happened to someone else. I know it further contributed to issues that I wanted no one to touch me - ever.

I had too many situations that I wished I could have screamed out for help. When I finally did, the therapists denied that it happened. They refused to believe that something like that could happen in their fine community.

Then when I tried to get help again from people later in life - they couldn't prosecute the perpetrator, because they were a major donor to ...........

Then, when I got the police involved when I was raped, my biological parents had the case dropped. I walked out of the home, was expelled from high school, and was barely surviving. I had to live with some college students. I worked as a dishwasher until I had another social service help me. What they did instead was place me in a worse situation, one of which I can’t discuss on Leaky for my own protection.

Then I finally got away from it when I was 18. However, life in LA was more than tough. One shelter program I had one of the boys tell me to not go in: that the owner was making the men into street hustlers. So many nights I just slept on the street.

This happened because of my looks. I was quite handsome. Many times in my life I have made myself look as ugly as possible so people would leave me alone. After I got my face cut up by a gang in LA, I lost most of the unwanted attention. I still have a hard time having a regular handsome look, because I get so much attention for all the wrong reasons.

When you are molested as I was at 4 (by someone who was 47), then 8 (by someone who was 11), then 13 (by someone who was 78), and 15 (raped by someone who was 27), it damages you. All of these people had a history of sexual abuse with others, as well as being sexually abused. It's just that none of them sought help for it.

Sometimes when people are involved with you in a relationship, you feel at times you can’t handle their touches. This is further complicated because I do have Autism.

I would have had a completely different life. I can’t say I have had any real decent counseling for it, because as a guy – we are supposed to be strong about this. This is part of why I dealt with so much denial from counselors. They just could not believe that women molested men, either. They think – what kind of man are you? I was a child! I did not have the skills at that time to protect myself, like I can now as an adult.

I have more than once punched someone for touching me – but I developed these not so fine skills later in life. I also have to defend my female friends when we go out to the straight Night Clubs. Most of the time the guys will stay away when they see them with me; except for guys who just want to fight – of which I have had to deal with several times in my life – just to get my female friends in a cab safe and far away from some creepy people.

The main issue people face with it is when they do try to get help. I am glad that Social Services have improved since the 1970’s – but they don’t help boys who are molested. There is a stigma placed on them: that the boy asked for it. It’s un-manly to have been molested. You regret ever mentioning it. All the counselors do is place information in your file that is opposite of what you told. That is my experience with it.

Then they feel since you were molested, that you will become one later in life. Sorry to blow that myth out the window. Many of us are so disgusted with anyone who does that sort of behavior, that we do everything we can to protect others from having harm come to them. I date people who are my age or older. I am social friendly to younger people, but tell them to go date someone their age.

I feel I lost out in life – but I don’t live my life through others. I have always been very much myself. Possibly I get it from having to get comfortable with so much time alone – that I don’t find it a problem.

I think the picture of my life would be quite different than me just being an Artist with 2 loving kittens, an Adopted family, a few good reliable friends, and too many acquaintances (happens in a city like Amsterdam).

Every partner who wanted me to be honest about my past split on me when I told them the real story – People don’t want to think that people could survive such situations. They don’t look at it as character. They think I am all messed up because of it. Actually, I got over most of the issues about it when I was younger – without therapy. I had to do my own reading and researching to help myself out. Do you think I was going to wait around for a counselor to get out of their denial? No way – it’s my life.

I am very pro-active about this, because I did not have the backing of a real family. I have been on my own, even as a child, raising myself while this other family went on as if I was a ghost. I learned about the ugly side of life, and not enough of what makes life good. Now my life is good, humble…but I have more respect for myself than I did in the past.

The only issues I still have is making myself un-attractive to not have people latch onto me, and when I do actually do something with my looks – to learn some decent skills to deal with unwanted attention.

I know you can get through life, even though it happened to you. It’s just better if you never mention to anyone it happened to you. I know people say you should be out in the open about it.

I know about the cycle, but the cycle also starts with people, and stops with people. Also the cycle doesn't start up with people. I had the cycle of being a victim, and not knowing I had the ability to get help and get some real protection. I wished I would have known how to punch when I was younger, then I could have prevented all of it from happening. I might have had a youth criminal record of violence, but I would have preferred that, then the stigma I have now. My biological parents were so scared of my anger that they did everything they could to break my spirit. This left me vulnerable to predators.

I did not ask for it, or the stigma to carry through the rest of my life. Society doesn't look at women as rapists - they look as men who were molested as rapists. How am I supposed to be that, when I haven't had sex with women since I was 24 - yet I am stuck with that stigma? I think young guys are yucky – I always tell them,” I’m not your daddy, go find someone else to mooch on.” Just because they are guys, doesn't mean I am attracted to them. Same with straight men – I don’t understand gay guys who go after straight men. I have turned down gorgeous men because they were so high, and so full of ego there was nothing to connect to.

I have to clue you in. Just because I am gay now, doesn't mean I would grab anyone. That is also a myth about the gay world. That people are so desperate and depraved they would do anything for physical contact. Maybe if you live in the exciting world of TV and myth. In reality, if you are over 40, you are not seen as physically desirable. Since I have always liked older big men, I don't have an interest in younger people at all. Hate to blow all those myths out.

I can't picture myself taking advantage of a 45-year-old bodybuilder. I get bored easy. People can't understand how it is that I can go out, and turn down people, and go home alone. I also can in 20 minutes or less go out in a bar and have my date for the evening: I am hated by many people for it. Even at 41 I turn heads when I go out, but I prefer to hang with my straight friends, because we have great times in the Night Clubs dancing to great DJ’s.

The gays think I am a weirdo. I am just selective about who I come into contact. For a person with Autism - we pick up on more vibrations from people. I have to watch who I let into my life because I can't take all the information overload at times if they are all messed up on drugs and alcohol. People hate me because if I date, I want them to not drink or be high - I want to know that they really are being themselves and are not lying to me. I get accused by my gay friends for being a bore and not being superficial enough. Great= that sounds like a real achievement to aspire to.

Sure, I have had people who were drunk out of their mind, which I got them cabs but did not go with them. I had guests come onto me, who were so out of it, that I politely put them back in their right room to sleep it off. I am a bit mean about it - I let them pass out in their clothes, and if I think they will sleep rough, I will take their shoes off, and put another blanket over them.

People are quite hard on their judging the situation you faced if you were molested and raped. I still have people in my past locked in their denial systems about what happened. Even when I told one of the biological parents – she just did not want to register the fact that it happened to her own kid. It took her 7 years to finally accept the information. 7 years? Denial is not a luxury I can afford.

Cheers,

Helyx

Guys can talk about it, but we get more shamed and isolated because of it by society. We are condemned if we say we were molested. Women do get more empathy if they were molested than guys do. They just think we are gay, are not strong, and are lesser men if we expose it happening to us. It’s like a stupid male betrayal bit.

It did not make me gay – but I will say it did affect me wanting to have relationships with females after the sexual abuse I faced from 2 women at such an early age. The strange part about it is that I never hated women because of it. I just realized at that age that not all people were like that. I did deal with the members of my biological family who hated the opposite sex. That was a hard environment to live through. That had more effect on my choice of sexual identity than by the sexual abuse.

So you can throw that other myth out the window. I still like women in a physical way, but I don't act on it. The woman I did want to marry died years ago. I will say I miss female affection, but it's my own personal choice now how my life is. I just don't want a family anymore - fed up with the whole concept of it since I never really knew it.

If anything, being molested killed that desire in me to have my own family.

I would have had to have made a family in secret, keep them in hiding, because I never wanted them exposed to the hatred, or the unpunished molesters that are still connected there. I could never make any female live like that, so I made other choices. I just felt that I could not provide the normal healthy connections outside of my created family to make sure they had a good healthy social life. I know how children like to have contact with grandparents, and extended family and family associates. It just was not a risk I would put any child through.

Don’t worry. I have a great-adopted family. So I get some glimpses. It’s a torture when people tell me I would have made a great dad.

I made a great dad by not becoming one. Some people will never understand that.

Helyx, I am sorry that all of your experiences with counsellors, therapists, Police and Social Services were so negative, but it isn't a Universal truth that Boys aren't helped, or that they are all expected to become abusers, and I definitely disagree that the best thing to do is to not talk about it.

All of my earlier posts were about myself, and a younger male relative, but there is much more to the story.

My Mother, and my brothers and sisters, took in many "street kids" over the years - more than 50 we finally worked out - not many of these were through Foster Care, because these kids were all very suspicious of anyone involved in "the system". More than 75% were boys, and almost all of them, male and female, had been sexually abused at some point, by the time that they came to us. I was one of the youngest in the family, but for some reason, I was usually the first one that they opened up to. Gradually, as there confidence in our family grew (and I include all of the kids in that family) they would speak to my Mother, and she would ask them what they wanted to do about it. Only a very small handful chose to press charges, but for those who did - including 3 boys - the Police fought very hard!

All of them were helped by speaking to one another, and being open about it, and those who chose to get professional counselling were also heard and believed I'm not saying that it was easy - or that the first person we approached was very helpful, but help was there.

I agree that it is harder for boys - as I said in an earlier post, That was a theme that I saw throughout my life, but often with varying levels of homophobia and anger. Also, there is more of a stigma attached to male victims - the answer to this isn't to clam up and not speak about it, the answer is to talk about it more Get it out in the open. This isn't just a male issue - the stigma attached to a female victim is still there as well. The "asking for it" remark has been heard by every rape victim at some point or another. Heck, I still meet people who believe their is "No such thing as rape ~ because a woman can run faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down" Direct quote, and No. They weren't joking.

The sad and ugly truth is that most abusers were abused themselves. This is neither an excuse nor a justification, it is a truth. Of course, that doesn't mean that all, or even most, victims will become abusers, but, the only way that we are ever going to break this horrific cycle of abuse, is to get it out of the dark. Abuse victims need to be taught the meaning of a "healthy" relationship, because otherwise there is a danger of them modelling the only examples they have known.

I disassociated completely, I helped my 'new' brothers and sisters get through something that I wouldn't even let myself remember. But that's not how I got through it. How I got through it was by helping those people, and with music, and song, and writing, and friends.

I have seen so much improvement in the services over the past 25 years, and these days, children, whether Male or Female, are getting more help, and they are getting it quicker. We need to make it easier for teenage boys and adults to report, and the only way to do that is to remain open, and try to get the message across. It can make the difference between staying a victim, and being a survivor.

Lilly

I appreciate your comments Lilly . They showed a genuine concern about what I went through. I have to edit out what I face now, because people would like to keep their myths of a loving society. Society has to maintain this ideal, even though it is tarnishing from wear and neglect, the beams are justice are falling, and the foundation of true humanity is cracking.

I never was taught what a healthy relationship is - that is something I learned on my own, from experiences. I don't know how aware you are of the gay world, but I disagree with what is considered a healthy relationship by their standards of conduct. I have a higher caliber of character I demand out of people. If I carried on like I know most of the people in gay world to do - I would find it unacceptable for "My own personal character level".

I would rather die alone, than have a partner who abuses me. I have had two in Europe- one who neglected me, and was cheating all the time; the other who tried to strangle me to death in 1999, because he did not want anyone else to have me. Since 2000, I have dated better men, but it hasn't lasted. The guys want a sort of perfection that I don't have in my life. I still date, but I know the moment I demand any level of responsibility or character - I end up barking up the wrong tree. Now with the Internet, it is near to impossible to get one guy to focus on you.

Why should I be "Taught" a healthy attitude - when no one has them? The gay scene is full of perpetrators and victims who willing play the game, night after night, after night. I find it pathetic. I am condemned because I do actually have values, and respect for people, as well as myself. I did not get these values from counseling, either. I got them from some Polynesians who loved me dearly, from some Peruvians who have adopted me to be a part of their family, and some kind and caring friends who let me try to find my own place in the world in my own time.

I also got these values from having my life pushed to the edge, where all of who I was squeezed out in a press of ideals that no one lives by. It is what I found in my own personal character that helped me to survive and keep that true light of my life still burning, though the harsh winds tried to even blow that out many times through my more than humbling existence.

If I went on normal white people's acceptable standards - I would be left out in the cold to freeze to death from no real genuine affection. That is because I had a bad past, so I am a condemned man to live alone for what other people did to me years ago.

It's like I never finish paying the price for being their garbage can of filth. I hate them for it, because they never were punished - I was, and still am punished for it by being outside of regular life. I am not superficial enough to fill my life full of lies and deceit to get some hot action, and to have someone in my life to impress people with. Wow, do I feel a loss about that? No. If a guy can't pass the Bear/Phoenix Code of conduct (meaning my cats have to like them), well, they don't stand a chance with me.

I get little, to no hits, on my profiles when I mention that I want a guy with character, who respects himself and those around him. If I put up a trashy profile, I get contacts and hits on my profiles like you wouldn't believe.

This is a different age. What about all the people who just send nude photos of themselves over the Internet to people they have never met? This is acceptable behavior in the gay community, especially if you have a hot body and certain assets. Society is changing to where people have little to no real value in their humanity.

They think they can do whatever they feel, because there is no real punishment or responsibility anymore. People don't feel anything about what they do or did to others like they used to, or lied to themselves that they did. When people are faced with being victimized, they deal with the hatred of society for bringing up the fact that we are not being human anymore to those around us.

The real reality is I still deal with it in my therapy and counseling. We are talking TODAY! The only thing that keeps me going sometimes is my humor and my character.
I can't write much of what I do face, because it really would upset people. How I am really treated in these times. Still, I am myself, and I will remain myself no matter what happens. I had people rob me of my innocence, and I have struggled for years to make myself feel good about life on my own terms that are in conflict with a society that does not have any values anymore. Everything seems expendable now.

I know in other countries their social services are more progressive and service oriented. Here I am treated like I am a retard and a crazy person in therapy. My real friends and my adopted family are helping me hold my sanity together, as well as two wonderful kittens who give me tons of unconditional love and acceptance. They don't care I had a bad past - they see me for the kind considerate loving man I am.

Strange that so few eyes can see that in me.

Cheers,

Helyx

It's only been very recently that I've connected why I "allowed" a much older man to take advantage of me years ago. I'd been abused by several people, several times in several fashions through my life. Emotional, sexual and physical.

Anyways, I've said to many people that are close to me that if I am ever attacked, I'm going down fighting and if I can, I'll take the person down with me. This comes because I refuse to let someone do anything like that again. I'd rather die fighting than afraid.

I have blamed myself for more than 10 years for not saying no to someone that I didn't want to touch me. I didn't want it, didn't ask for it and didn't like it. But I didn't say no...and I couldn't figure out WHY since I've never had a problem with saying what I felt before.

It's only resurfaced recently that this man, a family friend of the boyfriend who had just left me, had been talking about the army. His home country demanded that all after the age of 18 enter the army for 2 years. He was regaling me with stories of how he knew how to kill someone quickly and quietly.

Then he grabbed me and kissed me. I did absolutely nothing. I just stood there, said nothing, didn't move. I suppose he took that as an invitation.

He was 40 and I was 17.

It will never happen again.

What got me through it???

Hmmm, well my love of music made it possible to at least FEEL something other than hate and loathing for myself and others.

Yes, well, female sexual offenders range from 5-15% of offenders, but are rarely apprehended, or recognised as such. Most women are seen with the same sort of idea - loves kids, would never hurt them. The reality is that female sexual offenders are often more harmful than male offenders - firstly because they contravene our ideas of where to find safety, as well as they are often far more violent and cause more damage to their victims. I actually did some research into this in my criminology degree. Boys who are molested by men however, get sympathy.



This is true - look at the case of Vilii Fulaau (sp?) and the abuse he was subjected to - all this "oh he's lucky - he did it with an older woman". No, he was abused, and just as much a victim as anyone. That's the other side - female on male abuse is often seen as a stroke of good luck for the boy, rather than the abuse that it is.







Actually, you didn't allow him - you just didn't stop him. Consent and lack of action are two completely different animals. And most pedophiles suffer from something called "cognitive dissonance" - which basically means that they don't see things as they really are, but through what they want to see. The freezing of victims (which is common in children, and often life long in women) is seen as the victim wanting it. Pedophiles don't see the fear or hesitation on the faces of their victims, and misread their body language, and this allows them to say that their victims were willing - and worst still, they truly believe it.

The whole point to this kind of abuse is also to slowly work the victim into a position where they will not resist - this involves little tests to see that you won't say anything, to manoeuvring you into a situation where you can't call for help. Indeed, the whole "kill someone quickly and quietly" was calculated to ensure your compliance, and make sure that you didn't protest. It created fear in you, and that's what he wanted.

You should never hate yourself, or feel that you let someone do this to you. This is how this works - and indeed why it works. Abusers don't look for a hard target - they slowly break down resistance, and often put children into situations where they are unable to fight back. If they didn't, if they instead empowered their victims to resist, they wouldn't get what they wanted. Please - it wasn't your fault, and I can tell you from looking through the research that every victim feels this way, and that was what allowed a pervert to have an in.

Thank you Calalily for your supportive words.

I actually heard a *click* of another puzzle piece fall into place with the above quote. Thank you.

I no longer take the blame for these events and slam the hate stick over my own back. Nor do I feel guilty anymore when I actually enjoy physical contact with a partner. Oh, and my biggest issue....I have also stopped thinking that I am so weird looking or unattractive that no one would ever TRULY want me in the first place.

The only remaining issues is just the trust factors. "Is this person saying whatever they need to say, to get what they want?" In the grand scheme of things, that's a pretty minor worry to have remain and I can keep working on that one.

Thanks you Calalily for your words as well.

The freezing up part still happens to me. When I sense that, I did in the past get out of the situation as quick as possible. I have walked out of dinners, movies, night clubs when I encountered that similiar feeling. I wish I could understand it more. I know I am not powerless when I encounter that feeling.

I have punched a few people when they tried their tricks on me - and no, I never felt bad about it. I even had one bar apologize to me that they had allowed that drunk customer to come back in the club. All I did was defend myself. My friend that I was with was proud of me that I fought back. That was the first time I did not leave the establishment. Instead of having that horrible freezing feeling swamp me - I was able to really enjoy the rest of my night out. So I felt like I had made some progress.

I was also able to say NO to an unwanted house guest when they tried some stuff on me in the beginning of the year. I still remained a gentleman, but I made it very clear their attentions were not wanted nor desired. I got them on the train, and felt such a relief. However, it took a few days to rid my house of their creepy energy. I still feel I am learning and making progress. Now I know I can say No in the future, and just throw them out of my place, no matter what time of the night it is - and still be considered a gentleman. I like to have good manners, but sometimes your best manners is showing the prat the door.

I also don't bring someone I just met to my house. I make them meet me in a cafe in the day - which spoils all their cheap fun they would like to have with me, then brag about it later to their friends.

Gays and the bars here in Amsterdam are really um, well, I guess the tourists like that type of stuff. Since they have backrooms, a gay will automatically think if you have a date with them, and you meet them in a bar - it's just a sex date. So I refuse to meet guys in bars. They can go there for their cheap entertainment. I can't remember the Amsterdam Tourist Board paying me anything to make sure the tourists are amused. I did not get any extra perks on my tax returns for it - so, hmmmm, oh poor gay tourists. If I get asked on my profile sites if I am going to a certain party, I usually say I will be out of town that week, but have a good time. It's so much talk, and most of it meaningless, and meant to pump someone's less than developed ego.

Bars here are like Vampire Central - and I am not talking in a fun Goth way. Last time I was in a bar here, I told the American to not touch me, when I pushed him away when he was trying for a quick grab. HE thought I was rude! hehehe.....

I love my straight friends. They bring me so much joy and fun in my life. Sure, I hear the girlfriend/boyfriend troubles, but I don't mind it. At least I have terrific times going out. I don't worry about people coming onto me - I just have to protect my women friends, and be prepared for very drunk and stoned tourists. That is the downside of living here in Amsterdam. We get great DJ's, and events, but we also get the creeps who don't control their substance abuse.
_________________________________

I appreciate people writing about these issues in their posts. It's helping me to understand more what people do to try to trap you in an unwanted situation. I agree that people should talk more about it - but also about the methods people encountered when the slimy gits tried to hurt and harm them. That is extremly useful information to help make sure other people can see the signs and stop anything from happening.

So I hope more people tell this side as well. What they did not like, or what they noticed when someone was trying to take sexual advantage of them. If more people talk about this as well, then it gives everyone more ways to spot their methods.

Cheers,

Helyx

harrysjulie, that is so good to hear! I was going to come in and write a comment backing up what Calaily said, but I am so glad that you got what you needed from her comment.

I've dealt with a lot of girls/women who have said things like "Well, it wasn't really rape, because I just let him" or "I knew that he was going to anyway, so I just said ok to avoid any trouble" - the second case was a 14 year old girl who hitched a ride with a Truck driver, after she and her 12 year old sister were kicked out of home because the mothers new boyfriend didn't want them around. Both girls were trying to get to another part of the country where some relatives lived, in the hopes of finding a home. Quite often sex was expected as the "price" of getting a ride, and 'giving in' or 'saying ok to avoid trouble' was the only way they felt they had any control over their situation, but of course that control was an illusion, and it didn't negate the fact that they were sexually abused. (They ended up living with us. The oldest was only with us a few months, but the younger girl stayed for about 6 years.)


I know in my own case, I too ended up "just giving in". Like I said previously, I tried fighting back once - and since that resulted in a black eye and a few other injuries, I decided it was 'easier' to just go limp.
When I was in my mid twenties, a colleague of mine offered to drive me home one night after rehearsal, and because he was a very nice, ultra religious, married man who I had worked with many times before, I didn't hesitate. When we got to my house, we were talking and he suddenly started stroking my hair, and then he grabbed me, started kissing me and groping. I got out of the car very quickly, and ran into the house. I don't think I stopped shaking for three days. I was really shocked at my reaction - I always thought that if anyone ever touched me without my consent again, I would fight back, but all of the sudden, I was that 11 year old girl again. Like you, I just froze. In this case, a simple "No" probably would have sufficed, but in that moment I wasn't even capable of that. Knowing that I had to go back to the theatre the next night, and see him, made me physically ill. What made it even worse was that I was playing the role of his mistress in the show, and had to hug him, cuddle up with him on the couch, and even kiss him. It made my skin crawl - but luckily he didn't try anything else offstage, and he didn't take advantage of the onstage situation to do anything inappropriate. Other members on the cast and crew picked up on the new 'shift' in what had been a friendship - there was a lot of tension between us - and it was misinterpreted into rumours of us having an affair. That was hard to deal with too - and again, I probably could have handled that easily, and laughed it off, but I was too busy beating myself up and trying to work out what I had done wrong. I've gotten over that now, and I lay the blame where it should be - with him! I know that I am very lucky that this experience was with someone who was easily dissuaded, and it has taught me to be aware of my reactions - and hopefully I won't freeze again if I were to ever find myself back in another such situation.

Lilly

The problem is that usually in an abuse situation, the abuse is possible because they are in a position of power. So you're already vulnerable - and somewhere that you can be taken advantage of.

Secondly, if it were obvious, people would be able to avoid it like the plague. It's subtle, and tricky, and it's up to adults to see those signs - not the ones being manipulated.

I could say, just be careful of anyone who wants to get close, but as we see with harrysjulie - this is a problem itself - some people are legitimate nice people who want to be close to you for your mutual benefit, rather than just theirs. Some people will brush your hair back without thinking (I am one of those) and some will do it to see if they get a reaction, which then turns to a casual brush against private areas, and then progresses further.

I think that what is important is to be accepting to kids, let them know that they can talk, and being honest about experiences, so that those who have suffered don't punish themselves.



Unfortunately, this happens a lot. Women in particular are socialised to not be violent, and so our first reaction is to freeze, whereas helyx has fought back because he was socialised as men are. This impulse can be trained away through some self defence courses - and I say some. But certainly, what you can all say, each one of you, is that life has dished up some pretty horrible stuff, and that you can deal with it - which isn't much - but it's a lot more than pedophiles can often claim from protective custody.

Helyx, I've read all of story. I feel bad for you that you'd like to be a dad, and feel as though you can't be. I'm sure that's really difficult to deal with. I wondered though: Have you ever thought about mentoring?

I know it's not the same thing. But you'd be there for another kid who really use support and guidance. Plus it'd something mutually beneficial. Just a thought.