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"mudblood" And Jkr's Other Swear Words, Significance in the Potterverse and Reality

Irene Adler View Member Profile	Apr 27 2006, 10:36 AM Post #1
Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor Posts: 767 Joined: 5:49pm January 28, 2005 Location: A photograph at 221B Baker Street	This comment by hpaddict in the Obscurus Questions thread regarding use of the word "mudblood" in posts started me thinking... QUOTE(hpaddict @ Apr 19 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]792703[/snapback] The staff has discussed this topic and it all comes down to context. While offensive in the context of the Harry Potter world, if someone refers to a character as a mudblood instead of muggle born, the a post will not be disturbed. However, if someone refers to another poster as a mudblood, that is a flame and violates rule #1 here at Leaky. What hpaddict is saying here is that, even though "mudblood" is a word that was created by JKR specifically for her books, it's now considered by Leaky's mods to be a generic derogatory term in the Real World. When I went back and re-read Rule #1, there was no specific mention that JKR-created words were also considered "offensive words" in posts. Nonetheless, that's how "mudblood" is perceived. I thought it might be interesting to examine the types of words that JKR uses in her books for "swear" words or derogatory terms. We could explore how they are used in the books for effect, the types of persons that use them and how that translates into our own lives. I'm not just talking about "mudblood". I was quite surprised when JKR had Harry use the word "damn" in OOTP. Not that I'm a prude, but it didn't strike me that she would use Muggle swear words. There are also other words that JKR uses for "derogatory" words in the Potterverse, even though they are ordinary words - "giant" comes to mind. We could also look at how different English-speaking areas of the world view these terms, and also get some insights from persons whose first language is not English. For example, did the translation of "mudblood" (into French, Spanish, German, etc.) have the same "shock" effect as it did in English? What about "damn"? Note: although the mods have okayed this topic for a thread, please abide by Leaky's rules - including hpaddict's comment on mudblood - when posting. These rules are based on common courtesy and the fact that this site is accessible to readers of all ages -------------------- "She has the face of the most beautiful of women, and the mind of the most resolute of men." (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle: Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia)

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Replies (30 - 34)

Irene Adler View Member Profile	May 25 2006, 04:24 PM Post #31
Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor Posts: 767 Joined: 5:49pm January 28, 2005 Location: A photograph at 221B Baker Street	QUOTE(phineas nigellus black @ May 25 2006, 12:17 PM) [snapback]832225[/snapback] ...As for mud-blood in my native language: it has been translated to "Schlammblut" (identical german translation). Nevertheless I think it looses some impact - if it has in english - through the translation... And I think that's the great deal about translation: you don't have to find words that mean, but also that feel the same... Phineas, thank you for a most enlighening post! You are absolutely correct - each language has its nuances and colloquialisms that do not necessarily translate well. I tend to agree with an earlier comment that JKR wanted "mudblood" to be a bad word, but without using any of the existing bad words that are present in colloquial English. Look at how she does it! Draco Malfoy calls Hermione a "mudblood" and Ron is horrified. Harry is puzzled. So are we, until Ron (or was it Hagrid) explains the significance of the word. Phineas, when you first read the passage (I think it was in COS), did you feel the same sense of puzzlement? Or did you know instinctively that "Schlammblut" was going to be a nasty word? I don't know much German, but I actually think "Schlammblut" has a great sound to it - nasty and mean, just like the meaning of the word. -------------------- "She has the face of the most beautiful of women, and the mind of the most resolute of men." (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle: Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia)

phineas nigellus... phineas nigellus black View Member Profile	May 28 2006, 04:44 PM Post #32
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 30 Joined: 6:11pm May 23, 2006 Location: Hannover, Nothern Germany	I read all the books in the original english version, so I first knew about "mudblood" before I found out about "Schlammblut". As for the meaning of "mudblood" I was pretty sure that it meant there had to be something about Hermoine's origin, which Malfoy wanted to attack, but I didn't knew what exactly. Therefore I indeed felt exactly like Harry: I knew form the reaction of Ron and others that it had to be very offending, but it didn't hit me that hard as I wasn't used to it (you are absolutely right about JKR's brilliance here!). With the explanation of Hagrid's I got the point, as JKR certainly intended. As for the german term, I first got aware of it in the movie. As foreign movies are dubbed in Germany, we often face the problem, that the voices aren't too fitting with the charakters, especially with young actors they often sound rather artificially over-emotinal. So hearing "Schlammblut" made me rather grinning. That was - apart from the not so convincing over-dubbed voice - mainly because the word "Schlamm" (which is "mud") is not used for insulting anybody in any other context at all. It therefore sounds a bit childish and rather made-up to me in german. Would it have been translated to "Drecksblut" (which would be "filthblood" rather), it might have been different, even if this still sound rather old-fashioned to me, as none of the unfortunately still diverse insults for racial minoritys that are used today is referring to the "blood" (the term "blood" meaning "origin" sounds rather old-fashioned). So it feels to me much more like an insult, that might have been used in the 19th century. Today's insults for foreigners in german use items of the foreigner's culture that seem typical in the prejudice (often refering to certain food, common names that are mocked and similar things). Regarding the "blood" would be almost intellectual for those people... That's why the "Schlammblut" term didn't convince me that much, it feels a bit too artificial to me. And when you still got in mind the terrible Nazi terms you face from time to time in documentaries for example, which speak of things like "racial hygenic" and "unworthy life", "useless eaters" "social vermin" and similar things, the "schlammblut" term feels a bit too childish in my eyes. Nevertheless the "mudblood" term in english felt like a real insult to me, but I cannot say, whether I would have had the same doubts as I have for the german term, if I was a native english speaker. This post has been edited by phineas nigellus black: May 28 2006, 04:47 PM

birdi86 View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 04:48 PM Post #33
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 98 Joined: 4:33am September 9, 2007	performs thread necromancy Mudblood is likely based on the racist term "mud people". This term is often used by neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, and similar organizations to refer to non-white, non-Christian people. Likewise, "blood traitor" and "muggle-lover" are also based on real terms. The first is based on "race traitor" a term used to describe those who support the rights of non-white people, especially African Americans (I use that term because I believe these words are uniquely American terms - I might be wrong in that). Muggle-lover/loving is also based on another term which I can't say here but, like race traitor, referred to a white person who supported the rights of African Americans.

Silvia_CMC View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 07:58 PM Post #34
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 25 Joined: 1:32am October 2, 2009	In the traditional Chinese version (translated in Taiwan, circulated in Taiwan, Hong Kong [where I live] and other places that use traditional Chinese), the word "mudblood" is translated into "麻種". "麻" means "pockmarked" and "種" can have the meaning "breed" and "race" and "kind". While "麻" can be considered somewhat as a transliteration ("ma"2[rising tone] in Mandarin), it is also quite derogatory as it suggests bodily blemishes in "mudblood". (By the way, "麻" is also used in the translation of "muggle", "麻瓜". "麻瓜" means "pockmarked melon", and Chinese calls a simpleton/fool "傻瓜", "foolish melon". "Pockmarked melon" seems both derogatory and comical...) However, though derogatory in meaning, "麻" is rarely used to insult people in daily Chinese discourse. The word can also mean sesame and a benumbed feeling, actually. It all depends on the context. "種" is a rather neutral word in Chinese, although it seems to isolate muggle-borns from other wizards by suggesting muggle-borns are born differently from wizards. "Porkmarked breed/race" is a rather unusual combination invented by the translator. Chinese people who haven't read HP probably have to take time to understand what it is if you call them "porkmarked breed", but I believe he/she will eventually get the derotagory meaning. I'm not sure how other swear words in HP are translated in the traditional Chinese version, but I believe they have been domesticated into something that Chinese understands, because the Chinese culture is obviously very different from the British one, and a literal translation will probably have very low readability. No need to give any Chinese lesson on swearing here. I don't know how "mudblood" is translated in the simplied Chinese version, either. I may try to find that out later.

JohannMdlAmerica View Member Profile	Nov 3 2009, 09:02 PM Post #35
Claw-Clipping Kneazles at the Magical Menegerie Posts: 2,452 Joined: 9:26am July 24, 2007 Location: I'm either in the Muggle Underground Forum or at the Hogwarts Express Roundhouse	Words gain meanings. Dad was a prisoner of war during World War II. He was in the Phillipines at the time, as a 20 year old private soldiers. The general surrender came May 6, 1942. To this day, 67 years later, there is a three letter word in Dad's language. It has every bit the racial bigotry and racial disgust that JKR placed in mudblood within the potterverse. He will go to his grave with that in him. I have avoided employment assignments to a certain nation in my adult years. I've learned the same bigotry and racial hatred. To me, the point Ms Rowling makes with mudblood is each and all of us are fully capable of bigotry and hatred. What will set it off? Might be gender, faith, skin color, educational attainment, even hair color. The sadness is when we stop struggling with the epithet and instead embrace it as a weapon. We are poorer as individuals and as society when that happens. -------------------- The last enemy to be destroyed is death-- First Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verse 26 The epitaph of James and Lily Potter

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