Reading group leaders participating in chat: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=30341, http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=34097, http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=32660
Corner booth mods: http://hthttp://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=36461tp://(and RG leader), http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=4256, http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=29181, http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=30202
[12:55] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge
[12:55] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge
[12:55] *** topic: Reading Group Open Chat on Remus Lupin (Aislinn)
[12:57] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge
[12:58] <Expelliarmas> do you see me?
[12:59] <futureweasley> yes
[12:59] <futureweasley> I can see you know
[12:59] <futureweasley> *now
[13:00] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge
[13:00] *** Moriah has joined #lounge
[13:00] <futureweasley> hiya guy!
[13:00] *** Punky has joined #lounge
[13:00] <harryfreak359> hey1
[13:00] <futureweasley> Yay Punky!
[13:00] <Aislinn> hi folks!
[13:00] <Punky> Hey smile
[13:00] <Moriah> Hi! smile
[13:00] <harryfreak359> hello
[13:00] <Aislinn> oops, that's better
[13:01] <Expelliarmas> Aislinn you look good in blue
[13:01] <harryfreak359> lol
[13:01] <futureweasley> yes you do
[13:01] <Aislinn> Why, thank you! biggrin
[13:01] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge
[13:01] *** Ginny-From-A-Bottle has joined #lounge
[13:01] *** Sofie has joined #lounge
[13:01] * futureweasley pinches Punky on the cheek! Aww!
[13:01] <Expelliarmas> sooner, gfab--hello!
[13:01] <Punky> Ouch!
[13:01] <harryfreak359> hey sooner, GFAB, Sofie!
[13:01] <Sofie> evening all! smile
[13:01] <Aislinn> ah cool, we're getting a nice crowd gathering smile
[13:01] <SoonerGryffindor> hey all
[13:01] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hi Expel and all
[13:01] <futureweasley> hi Sofie, Sooner, GFAB!!
[13:01] <Punky> Hi Ginny
[13:01] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> hi F/W
[13:02] <Sofie> *waves*
[13:02] <harryfreak359> I don't know how long I can stay...
[13:02] <Aislinn> hello everybody!
[13:02] <SoonerGryffindor> Woo hoo!!! REmus
[13:02] * Moriah waves to everyone
[13:02] <SoonerGryffindor> :heart:
[13:02] <futureweasley> :swoon:
[13:02] <Moriah> Yay Remus!!
[13:02] <futureweasley> lol
[13:02] <Aislinn> i absolutely adore Remus!
[13:02] <futureweasley> me too!
[13:02] <Sofie> lol, lots of Remus fans smile
[13:02] <Moriah> Me too!
[13:02] <Sofie> i like him too
[13:02] <harryfreak359> he's okay....
[13:02] <Moriah> Uh-oh ;)
[13:02] <harryfreak359> but definitely not my favorite
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[13:03] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hiya Punkmeister!
[13:03] *** gryffindelle has joined #lounge
[13:03] <gryffindelle> hey
[13:03] <miss_danielle> hello everyone!
[13:03] <futureweasley> hi guys!
[13:03] <Sofie> hi guys!
[13:03] <Punky> Hi Ginster
[13:03] <Moriah> Hi all!
[13:03] <harryfreak359> hey everyone!
[13:03] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol
[13:03] <Hagiographer13> Hola!
[13:03] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Ickle Punkychops
[13:04] <gryffindelle> how are you all today?
[13:04] <harryfreak359> good
[13:04] <Aislinn> great!
[13:04] <Moriah> Tired but otherwise great. You?
[13:04] <Hagiographer13> Stunning!
[13:04] <harryfreak359> have a bit of a headache though
[13:04] <miss_danielle> i'm great thanks!
[13:04] <gryffindelle> fine
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[13:04] <futureweasley> the Punky fanclub is in the house!
[13:04] <gryffindelle> hi nymph
[13:04] <Punky> Ah shhh
[13:04] <nympheart> hello
[13:05] <Sofie> hi smile
[13:05] <harryfreak359> hey
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[13:05] <futureweasley> hi nympheart
[13:05] <Sofie> hey narya!
[13:05] *** Belenzie has joined #lounge
[13:05] <Belenzie> hey all
[13:05] <nympheart> hi futureweasley
[13:05] <Aislinn> hi, folks
[13:05] <gryffindelle> hi belenzie and narya
[13:05] <Moriah> Hiya!
[13:05] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> brb
[13:05] <Aislinn> narya, did you see the addition to UTF?
[13:06] <Sofie> *silence*
[13:06] <harryfreak359> . . .
[13:06] <Aislinn> lol
[13:06] <Expelliarmas> UTF?
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[13:06] <futureweasley> Unfogging the Future
[13:06] <Aislinn> unfogging the future
[13:06] <futureweasley> hi Fawkes
[13:06] <fawkes28> hello!
[13:06] <Sofie> hi!
[13:07] <Belenzie> it's professor floofy we're talking about today......wasn't there a chat about him a few months ago?
[13:07] <harryfreak359> hey
[13:07] <Hagiographer13> So, Lupin, anyone?
[13:07] <Aislinn> so, does everyone know about our new chat that we're starting tomorrow?
[13:07] <Belenzie> no
[13:07] <Moriah> Yay P3!
[13:07] <gryffindelle> it sounds awesome
[13:07] <nympheart> new chat?
[13:07] <Punky> nope
[13:07] <Sofie> nope
[13:07] <fawkes28> yes, it sounds exciting!
[13:07] <harryfreak359> yes!
[13:07] <miss_danielle> oooh i don't
[13:07] <futureweasley> I'm so excited about P3!!
[13:07] <Aislinn> Post-Prince Predictions is the name
[13:07] <Aislinn> or P3 for short
[13:07] <harryfreak359> It sounds awesome!
[13:07] <Sofie> p3?
[13:07] <Sofie> lol
[13:08] <SoonerGryffindor> :excited:
[13:08] <Aislinn> we'll be entering into the realm of guesswork for the final book
[13:08] <SoonerGryffindor> w00t2
[13:08] <Moriah> What time again, Aislinn?
[13:08] <SoonerGryffindor> there we go
[13:08] <Aislinn> 3 PM est
[13:08] <Punky> that sounds great!
[13:08] <fawkes28> lol
[13:08] <Sofie> EST?
[13:08] <harryfreak359> whoa sooner....
[13:08] <SoonerGryffindor> what?
[13:08] <Aislinn> yes, sofie
[13:08] <gryffindelle> eastern standard time
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[13:08] <harryfreak359> I feel the same way!
[13:08] <Sofie> that 9pm for me. thats ok smile
[13:08] <miss_danielle> oooh nice reasonable 8pm for me then
[13:09] <SoonerGryffindor> we wanted to pick a time where everyone could get a chance to join in
[13:09] <Aislinn> we tried to pick a time that would fit the most time zones - a big challenge!
[13:09] <futureweasley> we tried to make it "UK friendly"
[13:09] <harryfreak359> a reasonable noon for me
[13:09] <gryffindelle> 12 PM here
[13:09] <Sofie> lets hope i wont forget lol
[13:09] <miss_danielle> not that i get up for anything being a lazy student
[13:09] <fawkes28> hehe i get to be here at the normal time
[13:09] <nympheart> so do i
[13:09] <Belenzie> g
[13:09] <gryffindelle> the PC chats are the only ones I can't go to, I finish school just when they end
[13:09] <Belenzie> is it only on sundays??
[13:10] <futureweasley> yes, Post-Prince Predictions are Sundays only
[13:10] <miss_danielle> sounds awesome. Im now very excited smile
[13:10] <Sofie> i like the title biggrin
[13:10] <Belenzie> bugger i won't be able to join
[13:10] * Belenzie cries
[13:10] * Moriah gives Belenzie some chocolate
[13:10] <Sofie> we could call it Snape Chat smile
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[13:10] <Belenzie> lol
[13:10] <miss_danielle> P3 is cool, but sounds a bit like a tax form as well
[13:10] <nympheart> lol
[13:10] <Moriah> Hi hermit!
[13:10] <harryfreak359> lol
[13:11] <Belenzie> or the club from charmed
[13:11] <Sofie> P3 sound like a new sever name
[13:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> lol
[13:11] <gryffindelle> whats the topic tomorrow?
[13:11] <Expelliarmas> "P3" turned out to be the obvious abbreviation as you can imagine
[13:11] <futureweasley> Diagon Alley...
[13:11] <Sofie> as long as its not called Fiddy, im fine
[13:11] <futureweasley> and the disappearances of Fortescue and Ollivander
[13:12] <fawkes28> dun dun dun
[13:12] <Moriah> Oh, cool, future
[13:12] <Sofie> oh, interesting
[13:12] <Sofie> no snape yet sad
[13:12] <nympheart> lol
[13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> and what we think might happen to WWW
[13:12] <nympheart> he'll find a way in
[13:12] <Aislinn> doesn't he always?
[13:12] <Aislinn> smile
[13:12] <SoonerGryffindor> and how knockturn alley might fit into the whole mess
[13:12] <Punky> of course smile
[13:12] <futureweasley> Snape isn't an issue to be discussed...it's obvious that he's evile
[13:12] <Sofie> :D
[13:12] <futureweasley> lol
[13:12] * harryfreak359 is munching on strawberries and offers them around
[13:12] <Moriah> lol
[13:12] <miss_danielle> the greasey one manages to grease his way in at all opportunities
[13:12] <fawkes28> oh future
[13:12] * Sofie disagrees
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[13:13] <Moriah> Aw, poor Snape
[13:13] <futureweasley> ok, ok...I'm kidding
[13:13] <harryfreak359> Future!
[13:13] <futureweasley> not really, but for all intensive purposes
[13:13] <nympheart> lol
[13:13] <Moriah> hahah
[13:13] <Sofie> we are alreaddy talking about him ...nice :P
[13:13] <harryfreak359> how could you say he is evil!
[13:13] <futureweasley> I didn't...you can't prove that!
[13:13] <nympheart> evil is a simplification, but that's kind of the idea, imo
[13:13] * futureweasley zips the lips
[13:13] <Moriah> :lol:
[13:13] * SoonerGryffindor is glaring at Futureweasley now for talking bad about her fave professor
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[13:14] <fawkes28> apparantly future is best friends with snape
[13:14] <miss_danielle> lol
[13:14] <Islwyn13> Hey everyone smile
[13:14] <Moriah> Wait, Lupin's not your fav professor, Sooner?
[13:14] * harryfreak359 is glaring at future too
[13:14] <futureweasley> lol
[13:14] <Sofie> hey
[13:14] <Aislinn> girls, girls - break it up now
[13:14] <Islwyn13> forgot about chat, sorry sad
[13:14] <Moriah> Hi Islwyn!
[13:14] <Narya> Narya is glaring at them all for talking about Snape
[13:14] <SoonerGryffindor> well....
[13:14] <SoonerGryffindor> it would be a hard choice
[13:14] <harryfreak359> hey Islwyn!
[13:14] <Aislinn> hi islwyn
[13:14] * futureweasley loves loves love Lupin
[13:14] <SoonerGryffindor> but Snape really is my fave
[13:14] <fawkes28> hey islwyn
[13:14] <harryfreak359> Snape is definitely better than Lupin
[13:14] <nympheart> except the problem is lupin is my fav professor, and he's who we're supposed to be talking about
[13:14] <Islwyn13> eek!
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[13:14] * Sofie agrees with SG smile
[13:14] <SoonerGryffindor> wb Gryffindelle
[13:15] <gryffindelle> internet problems, anyway i'm back
[13:15] <Islwyn13> Snape better than Lupin as a teacher?
[13:15] <harryfreak359> uhhhhh
[13:15] <gryffindelle> no
[13:15] <Moriah> I like Snape but not nearly as much as Lupin
[13:15] <nympheart> no
[13:15] <harryfreak359> maybe....
[13:15] <harryfreak359> or not
[13:15] <Islwyn13> hehe
[13:15] <Sofie> the HBP was a better teacher that Lupin IMHO
[13:15] <TrinarySystem> Don't let Jo hear you say that.
[13:15] <Islwyn13> I'd say no
[13:15] <Narya> Lupin is the better teacher
[13:15] <nympheart> DADA benefited more from Lupin
[13:15] <harryfreak359> I think Snape is a better character though
[13:15] <Aislinn> OK, breaking into this Snape discussion.....
[13:15] <fawkes28> and we all say "lupin is our king"
[13:15] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon.
[13:16] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod
[13:16] <Aislinn> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like “Meg got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules
[13:16] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation!
[13:17] <Expelliarmas> Remus Lupin has been described by many as kind, gentle, compassionate and graceful under extreme circumstances. He has been voted the favorite new character from PoA, with more than 50% of Lily and Stag members choosing him over five other new characters.
[13:17] <Expelliarmas> Lupin first comes to our attention as the poor and sickly professor sleeping in the trio's train compartment. He has a subtle sense of humor and special attention to the self-confidence and success of all his students.
[13:17] <Expelliarmas> It is in the final chapters, though, where we learn the most about Lupin. He is a werewolf who has not been able to find steady work due to the prejudice surrounding his condition. We learn of the bite, coming to Hogwarts against all odds and becoming friends with the Marauders. With Sirius' help, they explain the true nature of the Potters’ betrayal.
[13:17] <Expelliarmas> It is with Lupin's convincing that Harry comes to believe in Sirius' innocence. But because Lupin failed to take the Wolfsbane potion, Peter escapes and Lupin endangers many lives. He resigns from Hogwarts the next day once word gets out about his condition, knowing he cannot risk the safety of those at Hogwarts.
[13:18] <Expelliarmas> So, let's get this chat underway, What were your first impressions of Lupin upon first meeting him on the train? Did you find it unusual for Lupin to be on the train? Why or why not?
[13:18] <Islwyn13> and who let word of his condition out? Snape, of course
[13:18] <futureweasley> I'm getting all teary!!
[13:18] <nympheart> lol
[13:18] <harryfreak359> lol
[13:18] <miss_danielle> lol so am i
[13:18] <Sofie> we were taling about it in my RG and we came to the conclusion that he was there on DD's ordesr
[13:18] <Islwyn13> I saw the movie before reading the book, but I was suspicious of Lupin, I admit it
[13:18] <Narya> I didn't find it unusual for Lupin to be on the train
[13:18] <SoonerGryffindor> oh man, that was beautiful
[13:18] <Aislinn> he is awfully special, isn't he?
[13:18] <fawkes28> i thought it was odd when i first read it since there was an adult on the train
[13:18] <miss_danielle> yes he is smile
[13:19] <nympheart> I thought it was weird
[13:19] <futureweasley> I knew that Lupin would be a great asset to Harry when they first met him
[13:19] <Islwyn13> Now, though, I think he was placed there
[13:19] <Narya> Lupin is a really special wizard, I agree
[13:19] <harryfreak359> I didn't pay any attention
[13:19] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it was planned for him to be on the train
[13:19] <Narya> I do too
[13:19] <harryfreak359> to the fact he was on the train
[13:19] <Islwyn13> And in Harry's compartment
[13:19] <futureweasley> yes, me too SG
[13:19] <fawkes28> i didnt think he was that great of a wizard sad shame on me
[13:19] <miss_danielle> i didnt either
[13:19] <Expelliarmas> Sofie, why did you guys conclude he was there on DD's orders?
[13:19] <Sofie> i think he was also too ill ti apperate
[13:19] <Hagiographer13> Sluggy took the train too. I think it was just his preference. A little extra shut-eye--maybe Dementor Protection , though--hmmmmm
[13:19] <Aislinn> but they went into his compartment, not the other way around
[13:20] <nympheart> he just wanted to be introduced to the students
[13:20] <Islwyn13> Sluggy was on train to recruit for Slug club
[13:20] <Belenzie> beacuse DD knew that there would be dementorrs and Lupin would know how to fight them?
[13:20] <SoonerGryffindor> it no co-incidence either that he is the last known surviving maurader and he got the DADA position the year that Sirius escaped
[13:20] <Aislinn> he was already in there asleep
[13:20] <miss_danielle> i did like him instantly though - any man giving out chocolate is fine by me
[13:20] <Islwyn13> and other than him, no other teacher has ridden the train
[13:20] <Sofie> well, since DD is syping on Harry since PS, for me it was obvious. i dont like DD i may add
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[13:20] <fawkes28> i dont think DD ordered him to be there I think that Lupin made the decision to be there
[13:20] <harryfreak359> Lol danielle
[13:20] <Narya> They went into his compartment because no other students would go in
[13:20] <Islwyn13> lol, danielle
[13:20] <TrinarySystem> Has anyone else noticed how subtle JKR is in showing how special Lupin is? She almost always invites readers to underestimate him and then turns it around.
[13:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think he took the train as it was probably the cheapest means of transport for him
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[13:20] <nympheart> how would lupin be placed in Harry's compartment, Harry just sat there because it was the only one left
[13:20] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> didn't get anything more than that from it
[13:20] <fawkes28> he is the underdog
[13:20] <Islwyn13> Well, they put their stuff in the compartment before going back out to say goodbye to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley
[13:20] <futureweasley> yes Trinary...I love how she does that
[13:20] <miss_danielle> i agree Ginny
[13:20] <Islwyn13> Then Lupin went in
[13:20] <Islwyn13> then they went back
[13:20] <Aislinn> I think so too, ginbot
[13:21] <fawkes28> i think that lupin felt like he owed it to james to protect harry
[13:21] <Islwyn13> agreed
[13:21] <futureweasley> Lupin is the underdog...always questioning his own abilities...but still managing to have a certain level of self-respect
[13:21] <miss_danielle> yep
[13:21] <TrinarySystem> He looks so weak and sick. Ron even wonders if he's dead. Then he springs into action against the dementor.
[13:21] <SoonerGryffindor> I think the same compartment thing might have been coincidence, but him being on the train was definitely not
[13:21] <Hagiographer13> Good point
[13:21] <Sofie> wonder what kind of chocolate did he gaive to the kids...
[13:21] <Narya> I'm pretty sure that Lupin was there on DD's orders - as a member of the Order
[13:21] <Islwyn13> and probably really wanted to meet his best friend's son in any case
[13:21] <gryffindelle> I think that it was planned for him to be on the train, its just always wierd when a teacher is on the train
[13:21] <Narya> There's an element of that too Islwyn
[13:21] <Sofie> i agree SG
[13:21] <TrinarySystem> We don't know if the Order was operational at that point, though.
[13:21] <SoonerGryffindor> sluggy was the only other teacher we've seen on the train
[13:21] <Islwyn13> Order hadn't been reconveined yet
[13:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hmm - even though we're given the impression that he is disadvantaged I didn't really feel pity for him
[13:22] <Narya> The Order was always operational - but underground
[13:22] <Islwyn13> happened at the end of GOF
[13:22] <SoonerGryffindor> right you are on that Islwyn
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[13:22] <futureweasley> I think he needed to be on the train because Sirius was on the loose, and noone yet knew of his innocence
[13:22] <Aislinn> your book must be different than mine isl
[13:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> From the get-go, I respected him even before he took action
[13:22] <fawkes28> why gin?
[13:22] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree FW
[13:22] <futureweasley> Lupin was there to protect...
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[13:22] <nympheart> i doubt many thought lupin could stand up to sirius
[13:22] <harryfreak359> I agree with you isl..
[13:22] <Islwyn13> I thought DD specifically said something aout recalling the order, Narya...
[13:22] <Islwyn13> am I misremembering?
[13:22] <miss_danielle> yeh i think maybe he could help with Sirius' capture - and he could have but he didnt
[13:22] <Narya> He did
[13:22] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm not sure - it's something I could never explain
[13:22] <harryfreak359> no islwyn...thats what I remember too
[13:22] <SoonerGryffindor> DD knew that if anyone could protect Harry from SIrius, then it was one of his former best friends
[13:22] <Narya> but I bet he had recalled it before
[13:22] <Sofie> you are right, islw
[13:23] <Narya> those he could trust
[13:23] <CrazyChlojo> i don't know if dumbledore would expect him to help with sirius' capture, md
[13:23] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I'm not sure if it was the way he composed himself even while he was sleeping - probably part of it
[13:23] <TrinarySystem> He has too much dignity for pity to sit well with him. In fact, he's really the only good or ambiguous adult character of any importance that is alwasy treated with respect by Jo.
[13:23] <futureweasley> yes, the only "survivor"
[13:23] <Expelliarmas> I think DD thought Lupin was up to the task of protecting Harry from Sirius.
[13:23] <Punky> I agree with you Ginny, there was always an element of respect there rather than pity
[13:23] <futureweasley> yes Expie...I agree
[13:23] <Expelliarmas> DD made Lupin a prefect in the hopes he would control his two best friends
[13:23] <miss_danielle> well he was the person who knew Sirius best still alive
[13:23] <harryfreak359> I think he just felt sorry for Remus and gave him the job
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[13:23] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> If he was described as shrivelled up in his slumber I may have thought otherwise
[13:23] <Islwyn13> and Lupin couldn't
[13:23] <Narya> No one could control James and Sirius at that point
[13:23] <SoonerGryffindor> I disagree harryfreak
[13:23] <CrazyChlojo> i dont think he felt sorry for him, hf
[13:23] <Islwyn13> by Lupin's own admission
[13:23] <TrinarySystem> He has a sense of humor, but he himself is never treated in a silly way by the author.
[13:24] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it was very smart timing
[13:24] <Narya> and I don't think DD had pity on Remus - I think it was respect
[13:24] <fawkes28> i think lupin took his own initiative with harry not DD
[13:24] <nympheart> was Umbridge's law in effect before Lupin taught, or as a result of his transforming on the grounds?
[13:24] <miss_danielle> DD doesnt pity people - he knows how strong Lupin is
[13:24] <Sofie> wonder if it was a coinsidence that DD gave Lupin the DADA job exactly when Sirius escaped
[13:24] <Expelliarmas> I don't think DD would give the jinxed DADA job to someone he respected.
[13:24] <SoonerGryffindor> to hire Lupin the year that Sirius escaped
[13:24] <Aislinn> I agree, narya
[13:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> No - I think DD holds nothing but respect for Lupin
[13:24] <harryfreak359> well I have never thought about it much, that s just what I thought at the time of reading th ebook
[13:24] <Islwyn13> he respected Moody, too
[13:24] <futureweasley> agreed GFAB
[13:24] <Islwyn13> and gave him the job
[13:24] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> agree - Narya - in oter words
[13:24] <miss_danielle> it was to do with Sirius for sure. why he was hired
[13:24] <Moriah> I wouldn't be surprised if DD had approached Lupin before but Lupin didn't accept until this year
[13:24] <Islwyn13> He knows they'll be gone at teh end of the year...
[13:24] <Narya> DD knew the student and the man - and respected them both
[13:24] <Islwyn13> but not how they will be gone
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[13:24] <SoonerGryffindor> sofie, I do not think that it was coincidence
[13:24] <TrinarySystem> In CoS, DD says he'll have to place an ad in the Daily Prophet for a new DADA teacher. Lupin may have answered it.
[13:25] <fawkes28> i think lupin accepted because he felt like he could be useful
[13:25] <Narya> I think that was a decoy ad, Trinary
[13:25] <Islwyn13> and he felt betrayed by Sirius too
[13:25] <Aislinn> yeah, it makes sense that DD would bring one of Sirius' best friends to Hogwarts the year that Sirius escapes
[13:25] <Expelliarmas> I think DD recruited Lupin
[13:25] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Yes T/S - may have done
[13:25] <Narya> DD already knew he wanted Remus for the job
[13:25] <miss_danielle> precisely
[13:25] <TrinarySystem> I may have been , but there's no evidence one way or another.
[13:25] <CrazyChlojo> i dont know if it makes sense, aislinn
[13:25] <Islwyn13> what better way to get back at him than to thwart Sirius' plan to kill Harry?
[13:25] <futureweasley> in light of Sirius's escape from Azkaban...Lupin HAD to believe that Sirius would go to Hogwarts...
[13:25] <nympheart> If Umbridge's law was placed before the school year, that just could have been one of the few places Lupin thought he could get a job
[13:25] <harryfreak359> I think it was just coincidence...
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[13:25] <futureweasley> the only home Snuffles had ever really known
[13:25] <fawkes28> also because everyone thought sirius was bad that harry could have a father like figure
[13:25] <SoonerGryffindor> oh, FW that makes me so sad
[13:25] <futureweasley> Lupin felt he had to be there
[13:25] <miss_danielle> Awww snuffles
[13:26] <harryfreak359> but I again, I haven't thought much about it
[13:26] <nympheart> Snuffles was at home at James's house
[13:26] <CrazyChlojo> because of the history between the two, i think it would be cruel to expect lupin to help in the capture or tell harry about sirius's "role" in his parents' death
[13:26] <gryffindelle> internet problems, again
[13:26] <Islwyn13> I agree, FW
[13:26] * SoonerGryffindor is going to cry now
[13:26] <futureweasley> was he, nymph?
[13:26] <harryfreak359> I hate that gryff
[13:26] <SoonerGryffindor> happy_crying
[13:26] <TrinarySystem> OOTP makes it sound like Umbridge's law had only recently come into effect.
[13:26] <nympheart> he lived there after he got kicked out
[13:26] <gryffindelle> what was the question
[13:26] <gryffindelle> ?
[13:26] <Aislinn> but he could be there as a sort of barrier between sirius and harry chlojo
[13:26] <Moriah> He was obvisouly a better teacher than Quirrell and Lockhart
[13:26] <Aislinn> possibly to reason with sirius if he came after harry
[13:26] <futureweasley> agreed Aislinn
[13:26] <Expelliarmas> CC, I don't know it's cruel, we later learn Lupin thought Sirius a traitor, so he might have been motivated
[13:26] <Islwyn13> and it would help to alleviate some of Lupin's guilt about Sirius
[13:26] <Moriah> Sorry, my messages are coming through late... if at all
[13:26] <Islwyn13> I think he feels he should have done more to protect James and Lily
[13:27] <CrazyChlojo> i suppose. i still think it would be rather heartless of DD to do that, though
[13:27] <harryfreak359> the best teacher for DADA at the least
[13:27] <Islwyn13> And protecting Harry is a way to make up for it
[13:27] <nympheart> OotP says the law went into affect two years before and I could never figure out if it meant before or after Harry's third year
[13:27] <TrinarySystem> He's the author's ideal for a teacher.
[13:27] <Islwyn13> I think Lupin WANTED to do it
[13:27] <Aislinn> it sometimes helps to leave and come back moriah, when you lag like that
[13:27] <miss_danielle> yeh i think he felt like he owed something to his dead friends
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[13:27] <fawkes28> yes i am sure he feels some guilt
[13:27] <SoonerGryffindor> uh.... Snape was the best DADA teacher actually
[13:27] <Narya> He feels guilt but there's no need
[13:27] <nympheart> grrr, no
[13:27] <Islwyn13> I don't agree
[13:27] <Moriah> I think it's better now, Aislinn, thanks
[13:27] <SoonerGryffindor> but Lupin was the next best
[13:27] * Sofie is getting depressed by the topic sad
[13:27] <Narya> I disagree Sooner
[13:27] <gryffindelle> question??
[13:27] <Aislinn> I think he would have seen it as a way to help James' son
[13:27] <Hagiographer13> No way!
[13:27] <CrazyChlojo> not so much, soonerg
[13:27] <futureweasley> I think Lupin had terrible issues with Guilt about Sirius
[13:27] <Islwyn13> true, no need, but we're talkinga bout Lupin here smile
[13:27] <Aislinn> so I don't see it as cruel
[13:27] * Sofie once again agrees with SG
[13:27] <harryfreak359> well I was excluding Snape sooner,
[13:27] <miss_danielle> i agree Aislinn
[13:27] <Narya> Remus was the better teacher - more of an all rounder
[13:28] <fawkes28> yes agreed narya
[13:28] <Islwyn13> and kind to his students
[13:28] <Islwyn13> and fair
[13:28] <CrazyChlojo> snape does nothing criticize and intimidate the students, lupin was willing to help them learn
[13:28] <harryfreak359> Because Snape is definitely the best DADA teacher,
[13:28] <Islwyn13> nope
[13:28] <Narya> Objective and full of empathy
[13:28] <SoonerGryffindor> well, since this is not about snape I won't go into it, but I have a whole set of arguments on that
[13:28] <harryfreak359> but so far, he is the best
[13:28] <fawkes28> one of the best traits of ateacher is compassion - snape had none
[13:28] <Expelliarmas> gryff--this is the question we're discussing-- What were your first impressions of Lupin upon first meeting him on the train? Did you find it unusual for Lupin to be on the train? Why or why not?
[13:28] <harryfreak359> lupin I mean
[13:28] <gryffindelle> thanks
[13:28] <Islwyn13> we need a new thread (whols the better DADA teacher: Lupin or Snape smile)
[13:28] <miss_danielle> expect fireworks
[13:28] <harryfreak359> Nah, I didn't really pay attention, I just thought it was lucky
[13:28] <SoonerGryffindor> good idea Isl
[13:29] <harryfreak359> Yes islwyn!
[13:29] <Sofie> def Islw
[13:29] <Islwyn13> but I truly believe Lupin was there on purpose
[13:29] <Expelliarmas> Did you suspect Lupin had been a teacher somewhere else, before coming to Hogwarts? If so, where?
[13:29] <harryfreak359> totally!
[13:29] <Islwyn13> I think he saw Ha4rry's trunk, and went into that compartment
[13:29] <harryfreak359> no
[13:29] <CrazyChlojo> well, i'd say he was on the train as a precaution, in response to the question
[13:29] <Islwyn13> I believe their names on on their trunks, aren't they?
[13:29] <gryffindelle> I don't think so
[13:29] <Sofie> i dont thinh he thought before
[13:29] <miss_danielle> i think he might have been
[13:29] <Hagiographer13> Durmstrang! LOL
[13:29] <Narya> I don't think that Remus taught before coming to Hogwarts
[13:29] <miss_danielle> lol
[13:29] <Islwyn13> no, never a teacher before
[13:29] <Sofie> lol
[13:29] <TrinarySystem> I suspect that Lupin may have a mysterious tendency to be where he is always most needed.
[13:29] <Sofie> beauxbatons? lol
[13:29] <SoonerGryffindor> the peeled letters on his trunk seem to imply that
[13:29] <Narya> Immense natural abiilty, but didn't have the job before
[13:29] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> It would be interesting to see what he had done before
[13:29] <Expelliarmas> Lupin's briefcase identified him as "professor" and it was an old briefcase
[13:29] <Islwyn13> he needs someone to make Wolfsbane potion, for one thing
[13:29] <Moriah> Well, Madam Maxim might be more likely to give a werewolf a teaching job
[13:30] <Aislinn> I don't think he was a teacher before, but he has a gift for it
[13:30] <Islwyn13> and Snape is one of the best Potion Masters out there
[13:30] <nympheart> I thought he may have taught in another country
[13:30] <fawkes28> yes i agree gin
[13:30] <futureweasley> he was practically penniless...I would say he was never teaching before
[13:30] <Aislinn> its such a shame he wasn't able to continue
[13:30] <fawkes28> it was probably tough for him to get a job
[13:30] <Islwyn13> Well, Lupin's name is on his suitcase, just couldn't remmber if it was on the students' trunks or not
[13:30] <futureweasley> he admits he had a hard time finding work
[13:30] <Moriah> Yeah, probably, fawkes
[13:30] <SoonerGryffindor> I wonder why he had an old trunk that had "Professor R.J. Lupin" on it then?
[13:30] <harryfreak359> yeah definitely fawkes
[13:30] <TrinarySystem> That's probably the author's point. Lupin deserves much better than he gets.
[13:30] <Narya> If he had had a job before Hogwarts, he wouldn't have been in the state he was in
[13:30] <harryfreak359> no idea sooner...
[13:30] <CrazyChlojo> well, teachers aren't known for having money, FW
[13:30] <futureweasley> and notice that he doesn't work again after his tenure at Hogwarts
[13:30] <Expelliarmas> well, teachers don't necessarily make a lot of money, do they?
[13:30] <Narya> He was obviously poor
[13:30] <Islwyn13> lots of people put their names on their suitcases
[13:30] <Sofie> maybe just his trunk was old and not the paper that had his name on
[13:30] <futureweasley> maybe DD gave him the trunk as a gift
[13:30] <TrinarySystem> "unable to find paid work because of what I am"
[13:30] <harryfreak359> but Professor, islwyn?
[13:30] <miss_danielle> yes but he might have had a job and got booted out for his furry problem
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[13:31] <Narya> I see it as a badget of pride, having the name on his trunk
[13:31] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he may have been teacher a long time ago, and had been between jobs for a while
[13:31] <futureweasley> yes Trinary, exactly!
[13:31] <CrazyChlojo> well, after the big blowout of his secret, fw, i dont know if many schools would want to give him a job
[13:31] <Islwyn13> he's been looking for a job for 12 years
[13:31] <miss_danielle> i agree sooner - thats what i was thinking
[13:31] <Sofie> oh, that makes me sad
[13:31] <harryfreak359> as a professor, then isl?
[13:31] <Islwyn13> and may have worked elsewhere, but I don't thin khe'd put himself around kids without assurances
[13:31] <Aislinn> there don't seem to be that many wizarding schools around, so where would he have taught previously?
[13:31] <Islwyn13> like the wolfsbane potions
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[13:31] <futureweasley> that is exactly my point, Crazy...thank you! I couldn't find the words
[13:31] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe he taught privately?
[13:31] <Narya> I doubt that any other school would have taken Remus
[13:31] <Moriah> I agree, Islwyn
[13:31] <Narya> DD was the one to give him a chance
[13:31] <Islwyn13> He was a child when he was bitten, he wouldn't wantto risk biting anothe rchild
[13:32] <fawkes28> maybe he privately tutored
[13:32] <SoonerGryffindor> who knows? maybe he taught muggles?
[13:32] <miss_danielle> he may have taught at a muggle school
[13:32] <Sofie> wonder why didnt DD employ him earlier
[13:32] <Aislinn> I think DD probably had to talk him into taking the risk
[13:32] <CrazyChlojo> good point, isl
[13:32] <TrinarySystem> One of the mysteries surrounding the character is how he has been able to survive without work, as he obviously did.
[13:32] <Moriah> I wouldn't be surprised if DD tried to get Lupin to come before POA but he wouldn't because no wolfsbane
[13:32] <Narya> I think so too Aislinn
[13:32] <Islwyn13> DD telling him taht he could provide Wolfsbane was probably a clinchpin in getting Lupin to agree to teach
[13:32] <futureweasley> DD never underestimated Lupin...he always had the utmost respect for Lupin and his skills and knowledge
[13:32] <Aislinn> right Isl
[13:32] <Expelliarmas> would Lupin have been limited to only teaching children? is there an advanced school for older wizards?
[13:32] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I agree Aislinn - I think Lupin might have at first declined DD, but DD convinced him
[13:32] <TrinarySystem> which I think may be greater than we've been allowed to see yet
[13:32] <Islwyn13> Maybe DD didn't ask Lupin to teach before because of curse...
[13:32] <CrazyChlojo> i think it's odd though that lupin was like a perfect teacher right off the bat though
[13:32] <Moriah> And Sirius coming after Harry helped convince him too
[13:32] <Narya> I'm sure that DD had to convince him to come
[13:32] <fawkes28> i think lupin would do great with adults
[13:33] <futureweasley> the "furry little problem" wasn't an issue as far as DD was concerned...it could be controlled with Wolfsbane
[13:33] <nympheart> but he still did ask him
[13:33] <Islwyn13> but after Sirius' escape, thoguht this would be the right time..
[13:33] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Lupin has too much respect for children and adults to put them at risk
[13:33] <Sofie> so Lupin can basically thank his job for snape smile
[13:33] <futureweasley> me too, fawkes
[13:33] <Islwyn13> and lupin agreed to help Harry and because he'd have wolfsbane
[13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, can you imagine how hard that must have been for Lupin to accept, knowing he would have to deal with Snape?
[13:33] <Narya> Agreed, GFAB
[13:33] <Islwyn13> that's my take anyway smile
[13:33] <Aislinn> I agree Moriah - I think that was a big motivating factor
[13:33] <futureweasley> and vice verse Sooner
[13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah
[13:33] <miss_danielle> lol Sofie - enough with the Snape ha ha
[13:33] <harryfreak359> ah...sooner, that would have been worse for snape
[13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> that look of hatred
[13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> in chapter 5?
[13:33] <futureweasley> I think there was plenty of animosity to go around
[13:33] <Islwyn13> true, Sofie smile
[13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> biggrin
[13:33] <Aislinn> It was definitely asking him for a sacrifice wasn't it sooner
[13:33] <Islwyn13> and he actually does thank Snape
[13:33] <SoonerGryffindor> yes
[13:34] <fawkes28> snape really didnt have to help him too
[13:34] <Islwyn13> well...
[13:34] <nympheart> he neither likes or dislikes snape
[13:34] <TrinarySystem> Remember he says he neither likes nor dislikes Snape. He's always trying to be fair-minded, but he won't go overboard.
[13:34] <Expelliarmas> After that first lesson on boggarts, what was your impression of Lupin's first class? Did you think he would be successful or unsuccessful as a DADA teacher?
[13:34] <harryfreak359> I think Lupin tries to get along with everyone
[13:34] <Islwyn13> it would have been pretty obvious if he refursed
[13:34] <harryfreak359> succesfull
[13:34] <Aislinn> I thought he was GREAT
[13:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I love how neutal Lupin is
[13:34] <miss_danielle> successful - definitely
[13:34] <Narya> I thought he would make a very successful DADA teacher
[13:34] <gryffindelle> very successful
[13:34] <nympheart> incredibly successful
[13:34] <Islwyn13> after the Peeves incident!
[13:34] <CrazyChlojo> i liked his first lesson, deffinately successful
[13:34] <Narya> Obviously skilled
[13:34] <futureweasley> I loved his "hands on" approach
[13:34] <Aislinn> the way he bolstered Neville's confidence
[13:34] <Islwyn13> very successful!
[13:34] <Moriah> I loved him! And that bit with the gum and Peeves!
[13:34] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> except as it relates to Fenrir
[13:34] <Moriah> Yes, Islwyn!
[13:34] <Aislinn> it was just wonderful
[13:34] <Sofie> that was an awesome lesson
[13:34] <SoonerGryffindor> I absolutely fell in ove with him after the way he treated Neville
[13:34] <fawkes28> i loved it because he uses constructivism in his teaching...an excellent teacher
[13:34] <miss_danielle> me too!
[13:34] <Islwyn13> he immediately had the students' respect after that!
[13:34] <CrazyChlojo> ne not only taught them, but he did it in a really fun way as well, and he was encouraging the students, not the opposite
[13:34] <fawkes28> hands on i mean
[13:35] <Narya> He's a fine teacher - in the best sense of the word
[13:35] <Islwyn13> agreed, Narya!
[13:35] <Aislinn> hes, his teaching style was very effective
[13:35] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Narya
[13:35] <Narya> Students always come first with him and he has an intuitive grasp of his subject
[13:35] <fawkes28> he provided them with practice and modeled excellent
[13:35] <harryfreak359> yeah he is a fine teacher, I agree also Narya
[13:35] <Moriah> I love that he knew everyone's name too... like he studied a rooster before hand
[13:35] <gryffindelle> definetely
[13:35] <Aislinn> and how to get the students engaged
[13:35] <Sofie> i loved how he treated Neville
[13:35] <Moriah> roster? haha
[13:35] <Islwyn13> and he actually taught! as opposed to Lockhart, for instance...or Umbridge!
[13:35] <harryfreak359> yes...
[13:35] <futureweasley> I have bad lag
[13:35] <TrinarySystem> I really think JKR wanted to present him as the perfect teacher, and there may even be a deeper reason for that than what we know now.
[13:35] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yep - I love the way he makes his lessons as practical as he does academic
[13:35] <SoonerGryffindor> we got so see his mischevious side in the way he dealt with Peeves, and his compassion when dealing with Neville
[13:36] <nympheart> I liked Remus ever since he said "Thank you, Dean." He wants the students to like him.
[13:36] <Islwyn13> Lupin has also become a father figure, I think
[13:36] <Narya> He always treats the students as equals and yet gets their respect without even trying
[13:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> learn by doing
[13:36] <gryffindelle> he treated everyone well, and the people that were picked on, he treated even better
[13:36] <miss_danielle> i'm just sitting here smiling just thinking about it
[13:36] <fawkes28> i love that lupin doesnt try to hard like some teachers do
[13:36] <harryfreak359> i don't know islwyn
[13:36] <CrazyChlojo> narya, i think that comes from his own experience
[13:36] <Narya> Agreed Islwyn
[13:36] <Islwyn13> Snape in a vulture hat...I loved that smile
[13:36] <harryfreak359> LOL
[13:36] <fawkes28> i would love to teach in the same school as him smile
[13:36] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> LOL
[13:36] <Sofie> lol
[13:36] <TrinarySystem> Notice how his proficiency as a teacher has been brought up at least once in every book since PoA.
[13:36] <Narya> I loved that too
[13:36] <harryfreak359> I loved that scence!
[13:36] <harryfreak359> scene*
[13:36] <Moriah> Good point, Trinary
[13:37] <Aislinn> yes, trinary - it has been emphasized
[13:37] <gryffindelle> yeah
[13:37] <futureweasley> Lupin never really runs the danger of thinking that Harry is James...like Sirius did. Remus had the time to grieve James passing, and took it upon himself to be a mentor rather than a friend to Jarry
[13:37] <Sofie> too bad he didnt want harry to face his boggart
[13:37] <futureweasley> *Harry
[13:37] <TrinarySystem> Dean comments on it in GoF and OOTP and Harry talks about it in HBP.
[13:37] <miss_danielle> i loved the fact he stood there munching on an apple in the scene in the film
[13:37] <Islwyn13> "Moody" was good too, except for the whole, "Not really being Moody" thing
[13:37] <nympheart> That
[13:37] <harryfreak359> yeah
[13:37] <Aislinn> lol,, isl
[13:37] <Expelliarmas> lol
[13:37] <nympheart> That's a great point futureweasley.
[13:37] <Sofie> lol
[13:37] <harryfreak359> I did like the fake Moody as a teacher
[13:37] <harryfreak359> he was good...
[13:37] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Islwyn
[13:37] <Sofie> there is this theory about the 7 DADA teacher and the 7 potions at the end of PS. i love that theory
[13:37] <gryffindelle> yeah, harry
[13:38] <Islwyn13> Yeah, FW, Sirius never really got the chance to grow past 20 years of age
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[13:38] <Islwyn13> which was about the time he went to Azkaban
[13:38] <harryfreak359> so sad...
[13:38] <futureweasley> right
[13:38] <Aislinn> Hi seven!
[13:38] <Moriah> It is very sad
[13:38] <harryfreak359> happy_crying
[13:38] <TrinarySystem> JKR even mentions this on her site.
[13:38] <Islwyn13> yep
[13:38] <harryfreak359> without the smile
[13:38] <SevenofNine> Greetings all.
[13:38] <Islwyn13> Heya, Seven smile
[13:38] <harryfreak359> hello
[13:38] <Narya> Hi Seven!
[13:38] <miss_danielle> poor Sirius sad
[13:38] <Sofie> hey!
[13:38] <Moriah> Hi 7!
[13:38] <SoonerGryffindor> hey seven
[13:38] <miss_danielle> hey seven
[13:39] <Expelliarmas> seven, we're giving opinions as to Lupin's success as a DADA instructor
[13:39] <SevenofNine> I think Sirius's story is the saddest of all.
[13:39] <gryffindelle> hi seven
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[13:39] <Islwyn13> yes, I agree
[13:39] <Expelliarmas> Throughout the book some suspicious circumstances regarding Lupin present themselves, e.g.: Harry's Sneakoscope going haywire in his presence, and Lupin's constant illness. Did you ever suspect Lupin as "up to something" in this book?
[13:39] <harryfreak359> yes, agreed seven
[13:39] <miss_danielle> agreed
[13:39] <Islwyn13> Well, aside form Harry, of course
[13:39] <TrinarySystem> JKR specifically points out that Lupin seems much older and more mature than Sirius.
[13:39] <Moriah> I don't know... Lupin gives Sirius a run for the money
[13:39] <SevenofNine> I was just listening to the Boggart chapter. I LOVE his teach styel
[13:39] <Aislinn> I never did, expie
[13:39] <Narya> No, I never suspected Remus at all
[13:39] <harryfreak359> no, not once did I expect him to be up to something
[13:39] <SoonerGryffindor> you know, I can always remember trusting REmus
[13:39] <Sofie> i dont remember lol
[13:39] <Narya> just not in his nature
[13:39] <fawkes28> nah once he started teaching i knew he was ok
[13:39] <nympheart> I never wanted to believe that Remus was suspicious, so I didn't.
[13:39] <Aislinn> from the moment on the train when he protected the kids from the dementor, he seemed like a good guy
[13:39] <futureweasley> I don't really know...
[13:39] <miss_danielle> i never did and im always suspiscious
[13:39] <harryfreak359> he is too nice, to be up to something
[13:40] <Expelliarmas> See, I thought the sneakoscope went off in the train because Lupin was not asleep the entire time
[13:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Hmmm - I thought it might have been too obvious, and I knew that even though other characters within the book suspected him, I didn't
[13:40] <Islwyn13> It's funny, I thought he'd be the nice guy who turned out to be untrustworthy, at first
[13:40] <fawkes28> me too expel
[13:40] <futureweasley> everyone points fingers at everyone else...and no one really is who they appear to be on the outside
[13:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I knew he'd be alright
[13:40] <Islwyn13> of course, that happened in the next book smile
[13:40] <harryfreak359> it was because of peter
[13:40] <Sofie> and he has chocolate. cant be a bad guy lol
[13:40] <SevenofNine> I never saw anything coming from Lupin. I was loving it too much how well he connected with Harry.
[13:40] <Aislinn> and then his teaching style, and his interactions with Harry - all positive
[13:40] <CrazyChlojo> i agree harryfreak
[13:40] <Moriah> Man, it suddenly worries me that we all trusted him all along.
[13:40] <SoonerGryffindor> from the train, to Neville, to his mentoring of Harry, who could distrust him?
[13:40] <Narya> the Sneakoscope went off because of Peter
[13:40] <Islwyn13> I really liked him, so I thought he must be the bad guy *blushes*
[13:40] <Aislinn> lol, sofie
[13:40] <CrazyChlojo> i always trusted him, he was too nice
[13:40] <futureweasley> lol Isl
[13:40] <miss_danielle> Lol Islwyn
[13:40] <harryfreak359> lol islwyn
[13:40] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> despite Snape's efforts to get everyone to believe he was up to no good
[13:40] <SevenofNine> :D Sofie
[13:40] <harryfreak359> I have that same problem too
[13:40] <TrinarySystem> I've heard that someone thought he might actually be Sirius in disguise, which would have been an interesting turn of events, if true.
[13:40] <Expelliarmas> I thought Lupin was hiding something, turns out he was
[13:40] <hermeeownee> He started out on Harry 's side = he couldn't be all bad!!
[13:40] <Islwyn13> Kinda like how I hate Snape, so he must be working for the right side
[13:40] <fawkes28> i always trusted him but i thought sirius was really bad
[13:40] <SevenofNine> Well, the very fact that Snape didn't like him should have been an endorsement
[13:41] <Islwyn13> So did Crouch JR!
[13:41] <Islwyn13> And h wanted harry dead!
[13:41] <Aislinn> if snape doesn't trust someone, its all the more reason to trust them, gfab
[13:41] <futureweasley> I was just going to say that Isl
[13:41] <miss_danielle> yeh i thought there was more to him then meets the eye
[13:41] <CrazyChlojo> true, seven
[13:41] <SoonerGryffindor> whoa Trinary, I'm glad I didn't think about that when I was reading it
[13:41] <Sofie> lol islw
[13:41] <Narya> Remus only hid his condition because of the prejudice he had suffered
[13:41] <futureweasley> YES Aislinn
[13:41] <harryfreak359> yes Narya
[13:41] <SevenofNine> Well, that was a later book and proved how naive my view was! LOL
[13:41] <futureweasley> exactly
[13:41] <harryfreak359> No Aislinn
[13:41] <gryffindelle> the sneakoscope could have gone offin resopnse to scabbers/peter
[13:41] <futureweasley> and so did Crookshanks
[13:41] <Expelliarmas> or crookshanks
[13:41] <gryffindelle> sry, lagging
[13:41] <miss_danielle> Ratboy
[13:41] <SoonerGryffindor> the sneakoscope was Peter all the way
[13:42] <SevenofNine> I think that's what the Sneakoscope originally went off for
[13:42] <harryfreak359> yep sooner
[13:42] <Islwyn13> yeah, that's why it did, but at first, who really suspected Scabbers, I mean really?
[13:42] <fawkes28> nah
[13:42] <Sofie> i alwasy thought it wenf off because that *** rat
[13:42] <SevenofNine> Peter
[13:42] <harryfreak359> not me
[13:42] <TrinarySystem> Actually, I think that there still may be more to Lupin than we know, so the sneakoscope may have had a "double hit" on both him and Scabbers. (It's nothing bad, though!)
[13:42] <Expelliarmas> the sneakoscope goes off when Sirius is first mentioned
[13:42] <harryfreak359> I didn't think anything of the rat
[13:42] <Islwyn13> poor little tortured rat, always being attacked by Crookshanks
[13:42] <SevenofNine> Well, once I knew he wan't really a rat it seemed obvious! lol
[13:42] <Sofie> pf
[13:42] <harryfreak359> lol
[13:42] <Islwyn13> wanna snack, Crookshanks?
[13:42] <hermeeownee> I never saw scabbers/peter coming.
[13:42] <Aislinn> you think lupin might be bad, trinary?
[13:42] <SevenofNine> And Crookshanks saw peter for what he was from the very beginning
[13:42] <TrinarySystem> No, not at all.
[13:42] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yep - there was a lot of focus on the rat
[13:42] <Islwyn13> me, either, never saw it coming
[13:42] <TrinarySystem> Just more than he seems
[13:43] <miss_danielle> if Lupin is bad then there is no good in the world
[13:43] <harryfreak359> no way is Lupin bad
[13:43] <futureweasley> the sneakoscope might just pick up on the fact that Lupin is "hiding" something
[13:43] <Moriah> Yeah, I'm hoping we learn more, Trinary
[13:43] <Expelliarmas> how surprised must Peter have been to have Lupin on the train?
[13:43] <harryfreak359> is is too nice
[13:43] <SevenofNine> What I think is funny is the hint in SS about Scabbers.
[13:43] <Islwyn13> yeah, there was, but I thought it was a friendship plot devicwe
[13:43] <TrinarySystem> well said, miss danielle
[13:43] <Narya> Yes, his condition
[13:43] <SoonerGryffindor> exactly FW
[13:43] <nympheart> Of course he's more than he seems, he's going to eliminate Greyback
[13:43] <Islwyn13> hint in SS?
[13:43] <hermeeownee> what hint?
[13:43] <SevenofNine> When the spell to turn him yellow didn't work
[13:43] <SevenofNine> Because he wasn't really a rat
[13:43] <nympheart> it wasn't a real spell
[13:43] <Islwyn13> oh, I thought it was just a joke, dud spell his brothers gave him
[13:43] <nympheart> it didn't sound like one
[13:44] <SoonerGryffindor> that was the first biggest clue 7
[13:44] <harryfreak359> well guys, this is really interesting, but I have got to go for now
[13:44] <SevenofNine> I think that's what we were lead to believe though . . .
[13:44] <Sofie> yep, it was sonethink Fren and George made up
[13:44] <Islwyn13> that could go either way
[13:44] <TrinarySystem> I think you're right, 7of9
[13:44] <Aislinn> bye, harryfreak
[13:44] <SoonerGryffindor> bye harryfreak
[13:44] <Islwyn13> no one has tried to use it since
[13:44] <hermeeownee> I just thought it was the twins way of making Ron look stupid...
[13:44] <Expelliarmas> see ya, hf359
[13:44] <Moriah> Later, HF
[13:44] <SoonerGryffindor> see ya
[13:44] <nympheart> bye
[13:44] <Islwyn13> bye, HF!
[13:44] <Narya> Interesting scenario, Seven
[13:44] <futureweasley> bye harryfreak
[13:44] <harryfreak359> I'll try to come back in a few
[13:44] <Sofie> bye
[13:44] <futureweasley> see you in the Summer Kitchen!
[13:44] <Narya> A first clue to Peter not being what he seemed
[13:44] <harryfreak359> lol yeah see you there future!
[13:44] <gryffindelle> ye harryfreak
[13:44] <Islwyn13> well hidden clue smile
[13:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I think a lot of people thought that hermee
[13:44] <SevenofNine> Like the little hint about Sirius in SS.
[13:44] <Sofie> i still dont think it was a real spell
[13:44] <Islwyn13> ...
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[13:45] <gryffindelle> *bye
[13:45] <Expelliarmas> JK Rowling has said Lupin's lycanthropy is a metaphor of the kinds of prejudice that people with illness and disability face. How does she show this? What do you think of how Lupin handles his condition and the reactions of others to his condition?
[13:45] <nympheart> i agree with Sofie
[13:45] <Islwyn13> I missed that hint too sad
[13:45] <TrinarySystem> Gotta really dig for those hints
[13:45] <futureweasley> I'm still so confused about how Sirius was suspicious of Lupin and vice verse, but noone was suspicious of Peter...just strange
[13:45] <fawkes28> i think lupin does a grat job with it
[13:45] <Aislinn> I think it is an excellent metaphor for people with mental illness or AIDS, that kind of thing
[13:45] <miss_danielle> I think Lupin handles it like most. He says hes used to it, but it must kill him in the inside
[13:45] <fawkes28> he doesnt want to be a burden
[13:45] <nympheart> Lupin handles the prejudice really well
[13:45] <Islwyn13> Peter was a fop, no one thought he had it in him...
[13:45] <Sofie> Lupin deserves a BIG hug...
[13:45] <Islwyn13> Lupin deals very well with his condition...
[13:45] <Aislinn> people have a fear and loathing that can be out of proportion to the risk
[13:45] <miss_danielle> il do it!
[13:45] <SevenofNine> Lots of big hugs
[13:45] <Moriah> AIDS is a great example since people fear it so much
[13:46] <Islwyn13> now...he was rather irresponsible as a teenager
[13:46] <nympheart> Lupin got a girl he doesn't need a hug
[13:46] <TrinarySystem> I'm not sure that Lupin was suspicious of Sirius until after the Potters were killed. It's ambiguously worded.
[13:46] <SoonerGryffindor> he is the example that we should all look to on how to handle any kind of adversity
[13:46] <Islwyn13> except AIDS isn't catching by association...
[13:46] <SevenofNine> Irresponsible in some ways
[13:46] <hermeeownee> Like many with challenges - he tries to move on past them
[13:46] <futureweasley> people fear what they don't understand
[13:46] <SevenofNine> Perhaps naive as much as anything else.
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[13:46] <Islwyn13> You CAN get lycanthropy if you're not careful
[13:46] <Islwyn13> or if the werewolf isn't careful
[13:46] <blue_dreamer> woo! just in time!
[13:46] <futureweasley> that's a universal truth
[13:46] <Narya> I think that Remus handles his condition pretty well, given the torment it must have caused him
[13:46] <Aislinn> I think it has damaged his self esteem in ways that affect his judgement at times
[13:46] <Narya> He tries hard to do his best, and usually succeeds
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[13:46] <Islwyn13> That's treu, Trinary
[13:46] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome blue deamer
[13:46] <blue_dreamer> what's been happening then?
[13:46] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Lupin has a great deal of integrity, but he also appreciates how others will respond to his affliction; he doesn't hide it, and he likely didn't disclose it at the school per DD
[13:46] <Aislinn> that's true of a lot of disease isl
[13:47] <Moriah> People thought AIDs was catching by association and wizards think that of lycanthropy
[13:47] <SevenofNine> Lupis is shown to be different from other werewolves who surrender to it.
[13:47] <gryffindelle> hi blue
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[13:47] <Moriah> Both are wrong
[13:47] <Aislinn> right moriah
[13:47] <SevenofNine> I really like the comparison to mental illness.
[13:47] <TrinarySystem> Lupin is shown in almost complete contrast to the other werewolves in HBP. He is the best of them all.
[13:47] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree moriah
[13:47] <Expelliarmas> blue dreamer, this is the question currently discussed: JK Rowling has said Lupin's lycanthropy is a metaphor of the kinds of prejudice that people with illness and disability face. How does she show this? What do you think of how Lupin handles his condition and the reactions of others to his condition?
[13:47] <fawkes28> you never know what people are carrying around with them on a day to day basis
[13:47] <futureweasley> yes Moria...good point
[13:47] <futureweasley> *Moriah
[13:47] <CrazyChlojo> i agree, moriah, but...
[13:47] <Sofie> he could have become bitter and cruel but he didnt
[13:47] <miss_danielle> just shows even more why he so lovely. He has had a rough life but yet still has love and compassion and truly believes that the world can be good
[13:47] <Moriah> Yeah, he is so full of grace
[13:48] <SevenofNine> Yes, and just because one person's illness is more obvious doesn't mean there aren't a dozen others around you with others
[13:48] <CrazyChlojo> people with AIDS normally aren't violently trying to infect others, which isn't, unfortunately, the case with all were wolves
[13:48] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> excellent, Danielle
[13:48] <futureweasley> agreed, Danielle...he and Harry are very similar in that aspect
[13:48] <TrinarySystem> Greyback is cast as his total opposite, and the other werewolves seems to fall somewhere between them.
[13:48] <blue_dreamer> I think he hadles it well. He doesn't let it affect him unless it's really bothering him. Actually, this is so my subject as I myself am 'disabled'
[13:48] <hermeeownee> I think this is also JKR's way of opening up the ideas of prejudice- opening up later ideas as well.
[13:48] <Punky> I think because its happend to him so young it's just him he doesnt know any different really
[13:48] <Narya> I think that Remus shows his best self
[13:48] <Sofie> this topic maked me sad sad
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[13:48] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Narya
[13:48] <miss_danielle> this is so depressing
[13:48] <Moriah> True, Chlojo, but responsible wolves, like Lupin, try to take procations before they transform
[13:48] <CrazyChlojo> i dont think he's rally had a chance to become bitter about it
[13:48] <Sofie> *makes
[13:48] <futureweasley> good point, Brewster....he was infected at such a young age
[13:48] <Aislinn> although, I do think the effects of the prejudice have negatively affected him
[13:48] <blue_dreamer> He does try really, really hard which is why everyone likes him
[13:48] <nympheart> I agree with Chlojo
[13:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> I think the most important thing we see with how Lupin handles his disability is he's not bitter
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[13:49] <CrazyChlojo> yeah, moriah, but not all, which is why the public is afraid
[13:49] <SevenofNine> Perhaps that why I love it so much that Tonks isn't troubled by it. I hope she's good at potion making.
[13:49] <fawkes28> no it shouldnt because he can love which is the most important thing
[13:49] <SoonerGryffindor> sad, but not bittter, yeah
[13:49] <hermeeownee> I thnk there is too much goodness in him to let himself become bitter.
[13:49] <CrazyChlojo> as is the case with any minority, a few tend to shape the public's view of them
[13:49] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he doesn't resent how people treat him, he carries on
[13:49] <Moriah> Very true, Chlojo smile
[13:49] <blue_dreamer> yes - love and understand ans accept
[13:49] <TrinarySystem> He, like Harry, had a choice to make about what kind of person he would be, and he chose correctly.
[13:49] <futureweasley> accepted his "lot in life"
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[13:49] <SoonerGryffindor> there is just such an aura of sadness around Remus sometimes
[13:49] <miss_danielle> i agree sooner
[13:49] <Islwyn13> oh, yes, always
[13:49] <Islwyn13> he's been through so much
[13:49] <nympheart> I see that too SG
[13:49] <blue_dreamer> maybe hes thinking too much about it
[13:49] <futureweasley> if it's not sadness, it's solemnness
[13:49] <Aislinn> and a willingness to go along with things against his better judgment
[13:49] <SevenofNine> I think James & Sirius helped Remus to have such a good attitude about it.
[13:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> but I think with that aura of sadness he never loses hope
[13:50] <Islwyn13> I think he's still mourning his friends loss, too
[13:50] <Moriah> Yeah, but at the same time, there is also hope around him
[13:50] <CrazyChlojo> yea, solemness is what i was thinking fw
[13:50] <Narya> Remus does look sad, but he has a warm and open heart
[13:50] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he never feels sorry for himself
[13:50] <SevenofNine> If he had been completely shunned, ti could have twisted him
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[13:50] <Expelliarmas> would it have made a difference if Lupin had been born a werewolf, rather than bitten later on?
[13:50] <futureweasley> Lupin isn't really one for "fun"...he's very "business-like" in all his ventures
[13:50] <SoonerGryffindor> not only his condition, but the cards that life has dealt him
[13:50] <Sofie> i fell like he is 20 years older that he is really. if you know what i mean
[13:50] <SevenofNine> Out of curiosity, how is one born a werewolf?
[13:50] <TrinarySystem> I think he may have great reserves of both hope and love. We just haven't seen how much yet.
[13:50] <Islwyn13> I think whether he was born taht way is too open a question
[13:50] <hermeeownee> James and Sirius helped Lupin grow into a "normal" person by showing him what was possible...
[13:50] <miss_danielle> i dont think it would have made a different
[13:50] <Islwyn13> It would realy depend on teh circumstance
[13:50] <fawkes28> lupin has had a hard life so in a way he can relate to harry
[13:50] <Moriah> Oh, but he has a great sense of humor, future
[13:50] <Expelliarmas> both parents are wolves?
[13:50] <SoonerGryffindor> losng all the only people who ever accepted him
[13:50] <SevenofNine> I kow there's reference to Hagrid trying to raise werewolf cubs . . .
[13:50] <miss_danielle> difference - oooh bad grammar
[13:50] <CrazyChlojo> perhaps if your the child of a werewolf?
[13:50] <nympheart> but futureweasley, he went with James and Sirius on their ventures
[13:50] <blue_dreamer> he's caught between two on going battles and undersstands whatever happens he has to keep plodding in. which is like a true gryffindor cause hes brave
[13:50] <SevenofNine> It's then passed on to your children?
[13:51] <futureweasley> true, Moriah...
[13:51] <hermeeownee> Lupin wasn't born a werewolf...
[13:51] <Moriah> I think Jo has said that the raising werewolves was a rumor
[13:51] <TrinarySystem> Fantastic Beasts says that the only way to become a werewolf is to be bitten.
[13:51] <futureweasley> his sense of humor really is unparalleled
[13:51] <Moriah> Lupin was bitten by Greyback
[13:51] <TrinarySystem> Voldemort was slandering Hagrid.
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[13:51] <Expelliarmas> yes, it's passed on to the kids
[13:51] <futureweasley> when Lupin's dad made Greyback mad
[13:51] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome Pleshette
[13:51] <futureweasley> hi Pleshette
[13:51] <blue_dreamer> people can catch genetic desiases when its never been in their family before and then pass it on
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[13:51] <Moriah> Is it, Expell?
[13:51] <Pleshette> Hi smile
[13:51] <blue_dreamer> then there are no 'real' werewolves
[13:51] <hermeeownee> but being a werewolf isn't genetic.
[13:51] <TrinarySystem> There are many odd references to werewolves throughout the seies.
[13:51] <Islwyn13> Fantastic Beats has apparently chot taht down
[13:52] <Islwyn13> 'must be bitten by a werewolf
[13:52] <CrazyChlojo> but think about it, though...it doesn't really have to do with genetics
[13:52] <Islwyn13> can't be born one
[13:52] <miss_danielle> Aww but i want Remus to have lots or little rugrats running about
[13:52] <Islwyn13> lo
[13:52] <SevenofNine> I always thought you had to be bitten to become one.
[13:52] <Islwyn13> lol
[13:52] <nympheart> lol
[13:52] <TrinarySystem> I think Jo was preparing readers for Lupin's arrival even as early as PS/SS.
[13:52] <CrazyChlojo> the way i think of becoming a werewolf is like, you get bitten and get the "infection" or the "venom"
[13:52] <gryffindelle> I need to go, I'll try to come back later
[13:52] <nympheart> you should check out my signature some time
[13:52] <Sofie> lol
[13:52] <hermeeownee> do we know that he can't have children?
[13:52] <SevenofNine> No. No. Peter would have rug RATS
[13:52] <Islwyn13> Bye, Gryff!
[13:52] <SevenofNine> LOL
[13:52] <futureweasley> see you soon Gryffindelle
[13:52] <Expelliarmas> the point I was getting at is that Lupin had a time when he wasn't a werewolf, he was normal
[13:52] <gryffindelle> byebye
[13:52] <Moriah> Later, gryff
[13:52] <CrazyChlojo> so what ifa female werewolf had a baby?
[13:52] <miss_danielle> lol
[13:52] <fawkes28> i hope he cane have children
[13:52] <SoonerGryffindor> lol 7
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[13:52] <Moriah> But he was very, very young
[13:52] <fawkes28> he would make a great dad
[13:52] <CrazyChlojo> how would that baby not get the "infection"?
[13:52] <Islwyn13> may not be able to conceive
[13:52] <futureweasley> me too fawkes
[13:52] <blue_dreamer> he will. they might have werwolf antics
[13:53] <miss_danielle> he would be such a great dad
[13:53] <blue_dreamer> yep
[13:53] <Expelliarmas> he knows what it's like, so he would be more solemn because he knows what he's missing
[13:53] <Sofie> i think he can hace kids
[13:53] <TrinarySystem> He was "a very small boy" when he was bitten. His memories of being normal may be very hazy at best.
[13:53] <CrazyChlojo> yeah, he'd be the bestest daddy
[13:53] <Islwyn13> not all infections are passed on to a child en utero
[13:53] <SevenofNine> What happens if a female vampire becomes pregnant?
[13:53] <Islwyn13> Oh, he'd be a GREAT daddy!
[13:53] <Expelliarmas> Where you surprised Hermione knew Lupin was a werewolf? What do you think it says about Lupin that Hermione "covered for him?"
[13:53] <Islwyn13> again, dn't thin kthey can
[13:53] <blue_dreamer> depends cause if his kids dont he may get jealous
[13:53] <CrazyChlojo> well, vampires are dead.
[13:53] <SevenofNine> Lupin and Tonks would be awesome parents.
[13:53] <Islwyn13> heck, no, we're talking about Hermione here!
[13:53] <Sofie> lol
[13:53] <futureweasley> no, Hermione knows all...lol
[13:53] <SevenofNine> LOL Crazy
[13:53] <Aislinn> If anyone was going to figure it out, it would be Hermione
[13:53] <nympheart> I was amused that hermione figured it out
[13:53] <Narya> I wasn't surprised to find that Hermione knew
[13:53] <TrinarySystem> Harry has never turned to him as a father figure, and that's a shame.
[13:53] <Pleshette> No she's very perceptive
[13:53] <blue_dreamer> hermione and lupin trust each other
[13:53] <CrazyChlojo> hermione figures everything out
[13:54] <Moriah> I think Hermione wanted to give Lupin a chance... she knows what it's like to be stereotyped
[13:54] <blue_dreamer> can lupin do occlumency?
[13:54] <CrazyChlojo> well, harry had sirius
[13:54] <miss_danielle> i think Hermione respected him and she wanted to give him a chance
[13:54] <Islwyn13> he hasn't had a lot of contact with Lupin, though
[13:54] <Pleshette> I'm surprised she didn't tell Harry and ron
[13:54] <fawkes28> maybe they will have a child in the epologue smile
[13:54] <Aislinn> I think she recognized that he was a good person - it says a lot for her as well as for Lupin that she kept it secret
[13:54] <hermeeownee> She figured it out after the essay - but I Think she realized how supportive he was of the trio....
[13:54] <Islwyn13> He might get closer to him in book 7
[13:54] <futureweasley> it didn't take a brain surgeon to realize that there would be only one reason to fear the full moon
[13:54] <Narya> And she covered for him because she knew what he was and wanted him to have his chance
[13:54] <Aislinn> me too fawkes
[13:54] <TrinarySystem> Hermione really jumped to conclusions about him being eveil, though, and that was wrong.
[13:54] <Moriah> She knows that Ron can be judgmental
[13:54] <Expelliarmas> well, I must say, Ihadn't figured out the whole werewolf thing until she blurted it out
[13:54] <Aislinn> although she was so busy and distracted this year
[13:54] <SevenofNine> Just goes to show that Hermione can keep secrets when she needs to.
[13:54] <Islwyn13> we didn't know it was a full moon
[13:54] <Pleshette> true Moriah
[13:54] <Aislinn> and feuding with Ron
[13:54] <Islwyn13> they said it was "an orb"
[13:54] <Moriah> I think it was smart not to tell Harry or Ron
[13:54] <blue_dreamer> maybe lupin wanted it to be kept secret
[13:54] <SevenofNine> Me either Exp
[13:54] <Sofie> i was surprised too
[13:54] <Islwyn13> Unless Im' misremembering again sad
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[13:54] <SevenofNine> I'm sure Lupin didn't want it known.
[13:55] <hermeeownee> her jumping to conclusions about his being evil fits into the predjucide thing.
[13:55] <miss_danielle> orb is correct i think
[13:55] <Islwyn13> in the movie, it was obvious, but not the book, taht I can recall
[13:55] <futureweasley> maybe I'm just remembering the movie version
[13:55] <Moriah> But Lupin didn't know that she knew
[13:55] <Islwyn13> Well, he HAD just hugged Sirius
[13:55] <Islwyn13> a "Known" killer
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[13:55] <blue_dreamer> but then people understand when you try to explain
[13:55] <Expelliarmas> did she jump to a conclusion? she kept his secret for a long time?
[13:55] <CrazyChlojo> she didn't really jump to a cuonclusion though
[13:55] <TrinarySystem> Lupin was the only teacher who has ever tripped up hermione. Remember that she panicked during the DADA final.
[13:55] <miss_danielle> well in the movie they gave him that "wolfy" moustache as well, whats that about
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[13:55] <Narya> Movie version isn't canon though
[13:55] <Moriah> Wait, what are you not sure about, Islwyn?
[13:55] <Islwyn13> whether it was made planer in the book taht the "orb" was a moon
[13:55] <TrinarySystem> The conclusion she jumped to was that he must be bad because he was a werewolf.
[13:56] <Islwyn13> Lupin's Boggart
[13:56] <Moriah> Ahh
[13:56] <miss_danielle> movie versions are so off canon sometimes its unreal
[13:56] <Narya> Hermione guessed
[13:56] <blue_dreamer> how can an orb be a moon
[13:56] <Moriah> They all thought it was a crystal ball
[13:56] <Islwyn13> In the movie, it was obviously a moon
[13:56] <Islwyn13> but not in the book
[13:56] <Islwyn13> unless i'm misremembering
[13:56] <Narya> she put two and two together and guessed right
[13:56] <TrinarySystem> She tried to give him a chance until it looked like he was on Sirius' side.
[13:56] <CrazyChlojo> i mean, she walks in on him and he's liike hugging the man they think killed Harry's parents and is trying to kill harry...i think i would have said he was evil there too
[13:56] <Aislinn> it was vaguer in the book, Isl, than in the movie
[13:56] <Islwyn13> She's alwo the only one who actually DID the werewolf essay for Snape
[13:56] <Islwyn13> She had more to work with
[13:56] <Moriah> I agree, Chlojo
[13:56] <hermeeownee> What do you think about Remus' name? how does that figure into all of this?
[13:56] <SevenofNine> I agree.
[13:56] <Aislinn> but hermione put the pieces together
[13:56] <blue_dreamer> but they never thought lupin sold lily and james
[13:56] <miss_danielle> yeh because someone said i wonder why hes scared of crystal balls or something
[13:56] <SoonerGryffindor> god question hermee
[13:57] <SoonerGryffindor> that was the biggest clue of all
[13:57] <blue_dreamer> maybe he had a thing for trelawny lol
[13:57] <CrazyChlojo> lupin means something like wolf in latin....i guess it might have been a hint
[13:57] <Islwyn13> quite true
[13:57] <TrinarySystem> But if you read the passage, she's concluding that his "motive" for being evil is that he's a werwwolf.
[13:57] <Aislinn> his name was an interesting hint, in hindsight
[13:57] <Narya> Lupus means wolf, yeah
[13:57] <TrinarySystem> She isn't thinking all that clearly.
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[13:57] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> yes Narya
[13:57] <futureweasley> Lupus!
[13:57] <Islwyn13> And Remus is a mythical creature...
[13:57] <blue_dreamer> we did n;t pick up on it first though
[13:57] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> latin
[13:57] <hermeeownee> and aren't romus and remus twins in astronomy?
[13:57] <blue_dreamer> as always
[13:57] <Narya> Sixth century Rome
[13:57] <futureweasley> that's about as good as Sniffles!
[13:57] <miss_danielle> romulus and remus
[13:57] <nympheart> I knew Lupin meant wolf and still didn't get it, but I didn't know Romulus and Remus were raised by wolves
[13:57] <Narya> in mythology
[13:57] <Sofie> i gotta go. see ya later! *waves*
[13:57] <Aislinn> and Remu is part of romulus remus twins - wolf brothers from ancient rome
[13:57] <blue_dreamer> nope greek mythology?
[13:57] <SoonerGryffindor> sniffles?
[13:57] <Islwyn13> romulus
[13:57] <Islwyn13> yea
[13:57] <SevenofNine> They were raised ay a she wofl
[13:57] <TrinarySystem> Remus was one of the first princes of Rome, along with his twin brother Romulus who killed him.
[13:57] <Narya> Roman
[13:58] <miss_danielle> bye sofie
[13:58] <blue_dreamer> bye
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[13:58] <Moriah> Bye Sofie
[13:58] <SoonerGryffindor> bye sofie
[13:58] <Islwyn13> oo, NO one is gonna kill my Lupin!
[13:58] <Islwyn13> smile
[13:58] <SevenofNine> Gotta go. Bye!
[13:58] <TrinarySystem> Remus also means "oar." His middle name John means "God's grace."
[13:58] <CrazyChlojo> i wonder if that'll have anything to do with remus's fate?
[13:58] <Moriah> Bye 7
[13:58] <Pleshette> I hope not Isl
[13:58] <Islwyn13> bye
[13:58] <futureweasley> bye 7of9
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[13:58] <hermeeownee> that should have been our first clue!!!! between Remus/ and Lupin!!!
[13:58] <CrazyChlojo> his "brother" killing him?
[13:58] <Moriah> And he is graceful, Trinary
[13:58] <Islwyn13> actually, I fear for him, but maybe we'll get into that later
[13:58] <TrinarySystem> I think it may, but not in the way most would beleive.
[13:58] <miss_danielle> i actually thought of romulus and remus but it didnt even click when reading it
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[13:58] <Expelliarmas> I During one of Harry's Patronus lessons, Lupin is oddly evasive about how well he knew James or Sirius. Why do you think that is?
[13:59] <futureweasley> welcome back Punky
[13:59] <Punky> thanks
[13:59] <Islwyn13> I don't think he wanted to talk about it
[13:59] <TrinarySystem> Yes, he is full of grace, another good explanation for why he endures as well as he does.
[13:59] <Aislinn> that's a good question, expie
[13:59] <futureweasley> he still thought that Sirius betrayed James
[13:59] <CrazyChlojo> i dont think he wanted harry to start asking a lot of questions
[13:59] <Moriah> I agree, Islwyn
[13:59] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he wanted to maintain his distance
[13:59] <Narya> He didn't want to give Harry more information than he needed at that point
[13:59] <Islwyn13> And I don't think he knew Harry knew Sirius had betrayed his parents yet
[13:59] <futureweasley> and I'm not sure that he wanted to get into all of that with Harry
[13:59] <miss_danielle> yeh that is a very good question
[13:59] <Aislinn> I din't really understand why lupin didn't reveal his relationship to james sooner
[13:59] <CrazyChlojo> he didn't want to have to talk about it
[13:59] <nympheart> I think Lupin was pained by memories of Sirius and didn't want Harry to think less of him for being associated with him
[13:59] <Islwyn13> and, like Mr. Weasley, was afraid of what Harry would do if he knew
[13:59] <hermeeownee> I think he didn't want harry to know that he use to hang out with a "murderer"
[13:59] <Narya> I think Remus was still full of hurt and guilt at that point
[13:59] <Moriah> I think he didn't, Aislinn, because he's so private and because he didn't want Harry to get to close
[13:59] <Islwyn13> could be that, too, nymph
[14:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Maybe he was too afraid that harry would start thinking him of a bit of a surrogate
[14:00] <CrazyChlojo> well, and not just any murderer, hermee
[14:00] <SoonerGryffindor> exactly Moriah
[14:00] <Moriah> He keeps people at arm's length
[14:00] <TrinarySystem> he seems to feel ambivalent about Siriuys' guilt too.
[14:00] <Expelliarmas> But why not talk about James? What's the point of hiding that?
[14:00] <miss_danielle> he could have been trying to form a bond with harry independent of whether he knew James or not
[14:00] <Aislinn> he is private, moriah, you're right
[14:00] <Moriah> And doesn't want them to find out about his condition
[14:00] <Islwyn13> painful
[14:00] <Islwyn13> James is dead, Lupin might feel partly responsible for it
[14:00] <SoonerGryffindor> what good would it have done at that point to talk abaout James?
[14:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and he was probably to afraid of becoming too attached - his ethics as a teacher would have prevented him
[14:00] <futureweasley> James = Sirius in Lupin's mind. You can't have one without the other
[14:00] <Narya> Trying to talk about James would be difficult for him, and how would he keep his friendship out of that conversation?
[14:00] <Islwyn13> hart to talk to James' son about that
[14:00] <Aislinn> so keeping them at arm's length is a self defense mechanism
[14:00] <SoonerGryffindor> it would have just brought up a bunch of hurt
[14:00] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> oddly this is where DD fell short
[14:00] <Aislinn> but one he sees as protecting them
[14:00] <Moriah> And I think he feels some guilt for ever being friends with Sirius
[14:01] <Islwyn13> and not stopping Sirius, yeah
[14:01] <Moriah> Exactly, Aislin
[14:01] <futureweasley> protecting himself, protecting Harry...
[14:01] <Moriah> Yup
[14:01] <Islwyn13> Not seeing his betrayal sooner
[14:01] <Narya> He's conscious of being Harry's last link to his past
[14:01] <SoonerGryffindor> okay guys, I've got to run for now, but I will pop back in later
[14:01] <Islwyn13> Which, of course, he couldn't since Sirius didn't betray anyone...
[14:01] <TrinarySystem> We have no idea where Lupin was that night.
[14:01] <Islwyn13> but at that point, he didn't know that
[14:01] <nympheart> that's true Narya
[14:01] <futureweasley> yes Narya!
[14:01] <Moriah> Later, Sooner!
[14:01] <Narya> In terms of knowing James and Sirius so well
[14:01] <futureweasley> bye Sooner!
[14:01] <Islwyn13> Later, Sooner!
[14:01] <Expelliarmas> Could DD have warned Remus not to talk about Sirius? i.e., not give Harry any info until he's ready for it?
[14:01] <Aislinn> he seemed willing enough to talk about it at the end, though - I don't know if he finds it that painful to talk about James
[14:01] <Pleshette> Bye sooner
[14:01] <Islwyn13> doubt it
[14:01] <Moriah> I wonder if it was a full moon
[14:01] <Islwyn13> Dd knows Harry is good at ferreting out info
[14:02] <Moriah> The night they were betrayed
[14:02] <Islwyn13> probably suspected Harry would find out sooner or later
[14:02] <miss_danielle> I dont think DD would have - he would let Remus do what he thinks best i think
[14:02] <Narya> I don't think DD would have done that - I just think that Remus was naturally very guarded
[14:02] <Aislinn> he is able to remember him fondly, and share some of those fond memories with Harry in later books
[14:02] <nympheart> I wondered that too Moriah
[14:02] <TrinarySystem> He's really the only character of any importance about whose whereabouts we don't have a general idea
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[14:02] <Islwyn13> oo, good point, Moriah...
[14:02] <futureweasley> yes, Aislinn...but I don't think he was ready for all that when he first knew Harry
[14:02] <Islwyn13> Gotta check that fact now smile
[14:02] <hermeeownee> its never easy to share something hard about yourself until you feel very comfortable with that person.
[14:02] <fawkes28> im back had to get some food smile
[14:02] <Moriah> I think he does find it painful, Aislinn... but it was so important that he get it out that night
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[14:03] <Moriah> It probably helped, too, now that he knew the truth, to work the story out outloud
[14:03] <Islwyn13> agreed, mo
[14:03] <futureweasley> It could also be a mechanism that JKR used...she's never lied to the readers...
[14:03] <Islwyn13> But I mean, imagine it from Lupin's perspective...
[14:03] <Aislinn> even in the later books, moriah?
[14:03] <Narya> Pain is never far from the surface where Remus is concerned - he had a tough life before, and twelve years of misery when his friends died
[14:03] <Islwyn13> before him stands the son of his best friend, who was betrayed by his other best friend, who murdered anotehr friend...
[14:04] <futureweasley> if Lupin would have recalled events has he knew them to be...it would all be wrong and contridicted later in the story
[14:04] <Islwyn13> Taht's a lot of pain coming flooding back at seeing Harry for the first time
[14:04] <Narya> It's a very complex thing
[14:04] <Moriah> Hm, I don't know, Narya. It might be easier with Sirius around but then even harder when Sirius dies
[14:04] <Narya> and he doesn't want to hurt Harry
[14:04] <hermeeownee> and yet he felt close to harrry from the start
[14:04] <Islwyn13> taht's true, too, FW
[14:04] <Moriah> Opa, I meant Aislinn
[14:04] <Narya> yes, agreed
[14:04] <fawkes28> lupin does a good job of hiding his emotions
[14:04] <Moriah> Yeah, Narya, it is very complex
[14:04] <Aislinn> he has had an incredibly painful life
[14:04] <Islwyn13> Not really an opportunity, either...for Lupin to tell Harry...
[14:04] <Narya> He really loved Sirius - it was so hard when Sirius was revealed to be a "murderer"
[14:04] <hermeeownee> does he?
[14:05] <TrinarySystem> Anyone ever notice that the first time Lupin and Harry talk privately, it just happens to be Halloween?
[14:05] <Moriah> True, Fawkes
[14:05] <nympheart> But Remus's hiding his feelings doesn't do him much good
[14:05] <Islwyn13> "Heya, Harry. By the way, you kow taht escaped convict? He betrayed your parents to their deaths."
[14:05] <hermeeownee> or do we know that he is hurting - but just don't know why?
[14:05] <futureweasley> yes, fawkes...he's a master at hiding who he is and how he feels
[14:05] <fawkes28> oh yes i agree
[14:05] <Islwyn13> Oo, no, I missed that Trinary smile
[14:05] <futureweasley> *cough* Tonks *cough*
[14:05] <nympheart> lol
[14:05] <Moriah> Yeah, I just read that chap today, Trinary
[14:05] <Islwyn13> Well, we knew Lupin had been through something, because of all the scars
[14:05] <hermeeownee> brb
[14:05] <TrinarySystem> I really think that Jo is hinting about something important there, that he was more involved than we think.
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[14:06] <Aislinn> which was when the Potters died
[14:06] <TrinarySystem> exactly
[14:06] <Expelliarmas> they may have had their first private chat at that time, but Lupin had been looking out for Harry already
[14:06] <fawkes28> i think he really doesnt have anyone to talk to anyone
[14:06] <Islwyn13> true
[14:06] <miss_danielle> hmmm thats interesting
[14:06] <Narya> I don't think Remus had any involvement other than what we know already
[14:06] <Islwyn13> but Lupin may have been feeling somewhat nastalgic, given the night in question
[14:06] <TrinarySystem> we don't know anything though
[14:06] <miss_danielle> exactly
[14:06] <futureweasley> he does work "underground"...
[14:06] <Aislinn> exactly
[14:06] <Islwyn13> 12th anniversary of the Potters' death
[14:06] <Moriah> Involvement? In the Potters' death?
[14:06] <Islwyn13> I don't think he was directly involved
[14:07] <TrinarySystem> in the events of the night, not their death
[14:07] <futureweasley> I don't think he was involved in their deaths
[14:07] <Aislinn> I don't think he was involved
[14:07] <Islwyn13> I think he knew the POtters' wer ein danger
[14:07] <Islwyn13> and knew they went into hiding
[14:07] <Aislinn> but I think the date would bring up painful memories
[14:07] <Moriah> Ah, yeah, nostalgia
[14:07] <Islwyn13> and, like everyone else, suspected taht Sirius was the Secret Keeper
[14:07] <futureweasley> he did...he was going to be a secret keeper
[14:07] <fawkes28> im sure he thought "i could have done something more"
[14:07] <Islwyn13> No, Sirius was...
[14:07] <Moriah> Yeah, Islwyn
[14:07] <CrazyChlojo> hey guys, i gotta run...adios!
[14:07] <nympheart> bye
[14:07] <Aislinn> right fawkes
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[14:07] <fawkes28> because that is the type of person he is
[14:07] <Islwyn13> when was Lupin going to be?
[14:07] <futureweasley> bye Crazy
[14:07] <Aislinn> bye!
[14:07] <Narya> He wasn't going to be a Secret Keeper
[14:07] <miss_danielle> bye!
[14:07] <Moriah> Man, he must have been so angry when he found out Sirius broke in that night
[14:08] * Expelliarmas dreads asking the next question and will duck upon posting it.
[14:08] <fawkes28> it probably has been haunting him for the last 12 years
[14:08] <TrinarySystem> He probably would have been the best choice.
[14:08] <miss_danielle> lol
[14:08] <nympheart> I don't see Remus angry
[14:08] <futureweasley> I thought that Sirius thought that Lupin was, and Lupin thought that Sirius was...
[14:08] <Moriah> uh-oh, Expell
[14:08] <Aislinn> lol
[14:08] <Expelliarmas> Although Lupin is a fan favorite, everyone has their faults. What are some of Lupin's character faults and how to these shortcomings affect his relationships and the plot of the series?
[14:08] * Expelliarmas ducks!
[14:08] <nympheart> lol
[14:08] <futureweasley> so, the potters picked Peter
[14:08] <Narya> He likes to be liked - JKR has said that herself
[14:08] <Moriah> Aw, I love Lupin but he does have his faults
[14:08] <Islwyn13> No, sirius went to Pettigrew to become the Secret Keepr
[14:08] <Aislinn> I do think that his lycanthropy has led him to have a damaged self esteem
[14:08] <Narya> Which makes him very vulnerable
[14:08] <Islwyn13> thinking that Someone suspected that Sirius was going to be it
[14:08] * Moriah gives Expell a hug
[14:08] <futureweasley> ok, I stand corrected
[14:08] <nympheart> Lupin doesn't really vent his emotions, that really isn't healthy
[14:08] <Islwyn13> so he pulled a switch, to further ensure the Potters' safety
[14:09] <Islwyn13> Lupin would have been a good choice, but no one made it
[14:09] <Aislinn> this makes him so grateful for the good feelings of others' that he is willing to let some of their actions slide
[14:09] <TrinarySystem> He did when DD died.
[14:09] <fawkes28> yes he would have
[14:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> As much as he is caring and compassionate, I don't think he likes to get close to others or have others get close to him
[14:09] <miss_danielle> yeh i agree one day that man will explode
[14:09] <Narya> He's a very private person, which isn't really a character flaw, just a mark of the man
[14:09] <Islwyn13> definitely damaged self esteem
[14:09] <TrinarySystem> He's determined for others not to be hurt because of him.
[14:09] <Pleshette> Not going to DD and telling him Sirius is an animagus
[14:09] <Moriah> He has problems standing up to his friends... but got better about it when he was older
[14:09] <Aislinn> he demonstrated poor judgment in not telling DD about the animagi and the secret passages
[14:09] <Islwyn13> "Lily saw teh good in people, perhaps even esp when they couldn't see it in themselves"
[14:09] <Aislinn> but didn't want dd to think poorly of him
[14:09] <Pleshette> He should have done that from the beginning
[14:09] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> and also Trinary, he's determined not to hurt others
[14:10] <Moriah> Aw, nice quote, Islwyn
[14:10] <Narya> He was younger at the time, and not as wise as he is now
[14:10] <nympheart> Oooh, nice Islwyn
[14:10] <TrinarySystem> He's actually quite stern with Molly, Sirius and Harry in OotP.
[14:10] <Moriah> Exactly, Trinary. He's gotten more backbone
[14:10] <futureweasley> I think that Lupin sees his emotional baggage as something better dealt with internally...but he has so much information that is interweaved in his feelings...it's really a disservice that he isn't more "open"
[14:10] <Aislinn> he does seem to have grown, trinary
[14:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he makes a great mediator
[14:10] <fawkes28> maybe he will make up for his shortcomings in the 7th book
[14:10] <miss_danielle> that did always surprise me that he hadnt given the info on Sirius to DD
[14:10] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> he gets people to reflect upon their actions
[14:10] <Moriah> He does try to protect people from himself
[14:10] <TrinarySystem> I think he will.
[14:10] <nympheart> I think he has made up for his shortcomings
[14:10] <futureweasley> yes Moriah
[14:10] <Moriah> It is understandable but unfortunate
[14:10] <Pleshette> I think he has trust issues as well
[14:10] <Aislinn> its probably very difficult for him to change that at this stage, future
[14:10] <Islwyn13> I understood why he didn't though, danielle
[14:10] <Moriah> Yeah, Pleshette
[14:10] <Islwyn13> though I didn't agree with his decision
[14:11] <miss_danielle> oh yeh me too
[14:11] <Pleshette> Because of his condition
[14:11] <Narya> He tries too hard at times, and doesn't need to, because people respect him for who he is
[14:11] <futureweasley> big time trust issues...with others and within himself
[14:11] <Expelliarmas> sometimes, I believe Lupin "thinks" too much
[14:11] <Islwyn13> definitely
[14:11] <miss_danielle> thats what i think too
[14:11] <Islwyn13> reminid us of someone else?
[14:11] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> good point Expel
[14:11] <Pleshette> Yes
[14:11] <Narya> I think it's part of his inward looking nature Expell
[14:11] <Islwyn13> *cough-Hermione*cough
[14:11] <hermeeownee> he is definately more of a cognitive person
[14:11] <TrinarySystem> JKR has given him a failing that a lot of people can understand and sympathize with.
[14:11] <Moriah> Thanks, Snuffles
[14:12] <Aislinn> that's a good point trinary
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[14:12] <Islwyn13> thanks, snuffles smile
[14:12] <Moriah> I do wonder if Lupin is learning not to push people away
[14:12] <Moriah> That life is short
[14:12] <Islwyn13> I think he is, now that Tonks has put her foot down smile
[14:12] <TrinarySystem> I suspect there may be a surprise coming regarding that failing and what it really means. She said that it's one of the reasons she likes him as a charcter.
[14:12] <Narya> I think that's even more apparent now that DD is dead Moriah
[14:13] <Moriah> Him being back with Tonks is a good sign
[14:13] <Islwyn13> I think he may understand now that he's worth loving
[14:13] <nympheart> I think Tonks taught him Moriah
[14:13] <Moriah> Exactly, Narya
[14:13] <miss_danielle> i think Tonks and Lupin compliment each other nicely
[14:13] <Moriah> Aw, *tear* Islwyn!
[14:13] <Narya> Life is very fleeting - and he has suffered enough with hurt in the past
[14:13] <Islwyn13> hehe
[14:13] <fawkes28> i think so too isl but i think it will still take time
[14:13] <Moriah> Me too, danielle
[14:13] <futureweasley> Tonks did teach Lupin a very valuable lesson
[14:13] <Expelliarmas> I think Tonks will have her work cut out for her, Lupin just doesn't "share" his feelings or thoughts
[14:13] <Islwyn13> true, fawkes
[14:13] * Moriah has a little cry for Lupin
[14:13] <Islwyn13> it will
[14:13] <futureweasley> I hope he will be more open in 7
[14:13] <Narya> Tonks is good for Remus
[14:13] <nympheart> yup
[14:14] <futureweasley> Tonks is Lupin's lobster!!
[14:14] <TrinarySystem> Remember how he avoided Trelawney after she asked if he would like a crystal reading?
[14:14] <Islwyn13> esp considering how open SHE is!
[14:14] <hermeeownee> tonks is as open as Lupin is closed.
[14:14] <miss_danielle> Lol
[14:14] <fawkes28> lol
[14:14] <Islwyn13> brutally honest, that one!
[14:14] <Narya> She's feisty and enthusiastic - he's reticent and introspective - so they're a good match
[14:14] <fawkes28> i think she makes him feel young again
[14:14] <Aislinn> yes - she will help to draw him out
[14:14] <hermeeownee> trinary - what did he say to get out of a reading?
[14:14] <Islwyn13> lol, FW, what?
[14:14] <Expelliarmas> Lupin also has a sly sense of humor which is rather subtle
[14:14] <Islwyn13> lobster?
[14:14] <Narya> Remus still has a young heart
[14:14] <Aislinn> not let him get away with all that introspection
[14:14] <TrinarySystem> I think he may believe his life is giing to be so short that he doesn't want to break Tonks' heart when he dies.
[14:14] <miss_danielle> agreed Narya - he must drive her crazy sometimes though
[14:14] <Expelliarmas> offering harry teabags?
[14:14] <Moriah> hahaha, yeah
[14:14] <Narya> I bet he does, miss danielle!
[14:14] <futureweasley> from Friends, when Phoebe tells Monica that Ross is Rachel's lobster
[14:14] <fawkes28> kind of like what harry does to ginny
[14:14] <Narya> But that's all part of the fun
[14:15] <Aislinn> he is still young narya
[14:15] <Islwyn13> I thin khe also doesn't want to hurt her
[14:15] <Narya> He is
[14:15] <TrinarySystem> He didn't say anything that Jo tells us, just "positively fled" when she offerd.
[14:15] <Narya> very young at heart
[14:15] <Islwyn13> or have her be hurt because she associates with a werewolf (prejudice again)
[14:15] <Aislinn> and chronologically too
[14:15] <Narya> Which is good for him
[14:15] <miss_danielle> Lupin has a really dry humour i think
[14:15] <futureweasley> he's afraid of sharing himself with her, because she's so "pure"
[14:15] <Narya> yes, that too
[14:15] <Moriah> Young at heart in some ways but an old soul
[14:15] <Aislinn> younger than me smile
[14:15] <Narya> Good one Moriah
[14:15] <Islwyn13> true, Moriah smile
[14:15] <fawkes28> awe he is an old soul moriah
[14:15] <TrinarySystem> a very, very old soul...
[14:15] <hermeeownee> or that the stigma of him will rub off on her.
[14:15] <futureweasley> that's why I love him, Danielle...I can relate to that Dry Humor...because it's me
[14:15] <Pleshette> Definitely Moria
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[14:15] <Narya> an old head on young shoulders
[14:15] <Islwyn13> yeah, that's what I was thining, Hermee
[14:16] <Moriah> Yeah, Narya
[14:16] <Islwyn13> thinking
[14:16] <TrinarySystem> I love his respoonse to the werewolf DADA question
[14:16] <Islwyn13> can't type today smile
[14:16] <fawkes28> but tonks loves him for who he is it doesnt matter he has a "furry problem"
[14:16] <Expelliarmas> One of the biggest mysteries involving Lupin is why Sirius ever suspected Lupin as the traitor and why Lupin was so ready to believe Sirius would betray the Potters. What do you think about this? What does it say about their friendship, and possibly the effect the war had on it? What does it say about their friendship that they could forgive one another so readily after so many years?
[14:16] <miss_danielle> fw - yeh he does have a great humour
[14:16] <Narya> Shows his sense of humour, Trinary
[14:16] <miss_danielle> this make me so sad and i knew this question was coming sad
[14:16] <Narya> I think it shows a lot about the suspicion and terror of the times
[14:16] <nympheart> It's great that they could forgive each other
[14:16] <futureweasley> I don't know what it says about them...
[14:16] <Islwyn13> In a war where it's hard to see who the enemies are, becuase they're all under cover
[14:16] <Aislinn> I think that Peter was sowing seeds of doubt in his so-called friends
[14:16] <Expelliarmas> This is a bit of a parallel to Hermione saying, "don't trust him, he's a werewolf!"
[14:16] <Narya> Everyone was a suspect
[14:16] <Moriah> I just can't imagine the guilt they must both feel for suspecting each other
[14:16] <Aislinn> and that is why they suspected each other
[14:16] <nympheart> I think that the Marauders were falling apart at that time
[14:17] <futureweasley> I just hope they had a chance to clear it up before Sirius died
[14:17] <TrinarySystem> I'm not sure that he really beleived anything was going on until Sirius "betrayed" the Potters.
[14:17] <Islwyn13> and they knew that someone was betraying the potters
[14:17] <hermeeownee> the evidence was so "insurmontable" -
[14:17] <Aislinn> a little misdirection away from himself
[14:17] <Islwyn13> hence why they were in danger
[14:17] <Islwyn13> and Pettigrew was considered too weak to be the one
[14:17] <Narya> They knew someone was a spy, they just didn't know who
[14:17] <Moriah> Yeah, Aislinn
[14:17] <Islwyn13> so they had to suspect each other
[14:17] <fawkes28> true isl
[14:17] <nympheart> no they didn't
[14:17] <Pleshette> You beat me to is Narya
[14:17] <Narya> Came as a bolt out of the blue
[14:17] <Narya> biggrin
[14:17] <Aislinn> I don't think they would have believed it of each other otherwise
[14:17] <nympheart> there was a spy in the Order, it didn't mean it was one of them
[14:17] <Pleshette> :)
[14:17] <Islwyn13> They cleared it up a bit in this book
[14:17] <Narya> Agreed Aislinn
[14:17] <Moriah> I really don't think that Lupin suspected Sirius until after the Potters died
[14:17] <Islwyn13> both asking the other to forgive their suspicions
[14:17] <futureweasley> maybe each of them let their pride get in the way...who is more loyal to the order and to the Potters
[14:17] <nympheart> I agree Moriah
[14:18] <Moriah> Otherwise he wouldn't have agreed for Sirius to be secret keeper
[14:18] <hermeeownee> I don't know if he suspected him before that fateful night -but when he supposedly blue up peter -it was hard to reconcile
[14:18] <Pleshette> Never suspected Peter
[14:18] <Aislinn> agreed moriah
[14:18] <Moriah> Yeah
[14:18] <TrinarySystem> I agree with Moriah.
[14:18] <miss_danielle> lupin didnt suspect sirius he just believeed in his guilt after
[14:18] <Narya> That bear hug was really genuine - years of hurt disappeared in an instant
[14:18] <Pleshette> Underestimated him
[14:18] <futureweasley> NEVER SUSPECTED Peter...what is that all about?
[14:18] <Expelliarmas> oh FW, then they'd be acting like the DEs
[14:18] <Moriah> Nice, Narya
[14:18] <Islwyn13> agreed, Narya
[14:18] <Narya> They all underestimated him
[14:18] <futureweasley> they kind of were, Expie
[14:18] <Islwyn13> They didn't
[14:18] <Islwyn13> they thought he was a fop
[14:18] <Aislinn> I loved that bear hug
[14:18] <TrinarySystem> He didn't seem to be as close to the Marauders after school.
[14:18] <futureweasley> acting like DE's in that regard
[14:18] <fawkes28> shows us we shouldnt underestimate anyone in this book
[14:18] <hermeeownee> okay - help me out here - what is a fop?
[14:18] <Islwyn13> no where near strong enough in character or as a wizard to go to LV and help him!
[14:19] <Aislinn> it revealed so much
[14:19] <bitznbats> I don't think that they thought that Peter had the nerve to spy on them
[14:19] <Narya> A fop is a kind of standoffish person - think of Percy
[14:19] <Islwyn13> hehe
[14:19] <Moriah> They didn't think that Peter would be capable of fooling the entire Order
[14:19] <Aislinn> who didn't, trinary?
[14:19] <TrinarySystem> In the Order photo Moody shows Harry, he was siting with Dd, Moody and the Longbottoms, not his friends from Hogwarts.
[14:19] <hermeeownee> thansk
[14:19] <Islwyn13> well, also someone who puts on airs
[14:19] <fawkes28> but look at the way they treated him
[14:19] <hermeeownee> thanks
[14:19] <Moriah> But Sirius knew Remus was good at keeping secrets from people
[14:19] <miss_danielle> i always find it difficult to comment because i suppose we know what they were like at school but in the years in between i dunno
[14:19] <Moriah> Aw, I noticed that too, Trinary
[14:19] <Aislinn> I think they remained close after school
[14:19] <Pleshette> good point Moriah
[14:19] <TrinarySystem> Sirius had a strange pattern of trust and betrayal regarding Lupin.
[14:20] <Moriah> Yeah
[14:20] <nympheart> I think they drifted apart when James got married
[14:20] <hermeeownee> how so trinary?
[14:20] <Aislinn> but I do think that Peter was throwing suspicion in Lupin's direction
[14:20] <Narya> I think they were close right up to the Potters death, but Peter obviously kept his secrets well
[14:20] <futureweasley> yes Danielle...I think there was kind of a twinge of jealous between Sirius and Lupin, too
[14:20] <fawkes28> they treated peter horribly they pushed him away (ducks)
[14:20] <Moriah> Probably, Aislinn
[14:20] <Narya> Peter was jealous of all three
[14:20] <Islwyn13> true
[14:20] <Expelliarmas> see, I had the impression they were all involved in the order; it'd help to know what their jobs were, though
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[14:20] <Aislinn> agreed narya
[14:20] <miss_danielle> Sirius probably liked the fact that Peter followed him around and Remus didnt do that - that sounds like a horrible thing to say though
[14:20] <futureweasley> yes, Fawkes, I agree
[14:20] <hermeeownee> jealous - and didnt' have the skills to do anything about it.
[14:20] <Aislinn> I did too expie
[14:20] <miss_danielle> at school anyway
[14:20] <Islwyn13> but I'm not sure Lupin and Sirius were still completley close before the Potter's die
[14:20] <Islwyn13> died
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[14:20] <futureweasley> no need to duck...that's observable fact
[14:21] <Narya> Peter was the jealous and cunning type, as it appears
[14:21] <Islwyn13> Sirius went to Pettigrew because he was unsure of Lupin
[14:21] <Aislinn> I think they were isl
[14:21] <Expelliarmas> I thought they protected Peter, at school and in life
[14:21] <Islwyn13> thoguth Lupin might be the spy
[14:21] <fawkes28> i mean peter definitely had a choice but the 3 of them should have been nicer to peter
[14:21] <TrinarySystem> Sirius was close enough to Lupin to become an animagi for him, even though it took three years, but then he nearly threw everything away by trying to get Snape bitten or killed using Moony.
[14:21] <Islwyn13> in school, yes
[14:21] <Islwyn13> but I mean after
[14:21] <Narya> I think they probably were up to a point, fawkes
[14:21] <Islwyn13> once the war began
[14:21] <fawkes28> at least harry stopped them and saved his life at least someone showed him some pity
[14:21] <Aislinn> but if peter was dropping hints that Lupin might be the spy, sirius may have just been being protective
[14:21] <TrinarySystem> Suspecting Remus was the spy was just another part of that pattern.
[14:21] <Islwyn13> Sirius suspected Lupin
[14:21] <Narya> But Peter's fawning would have made that difficult
[14:21] <Expelliarmas> the two best friends were James and Sirius, with Lupin as a third
[14:21] <miss_danielle> Lupin is clever and he doesnt wear his secrets on his sleeve - could be the flaw that led to everything happening. Why Sirius didnt trust him
[14:22] <Islwyn13> why didn't Sirius pick DD to be the Secret Keeper?
[14:22] <Moriah> I agree, danielle
[14:22] <futureweasley> DD had enough to be going on with...probably
[14:22] <Islwyn13> Lupin being so closed off, hard to read? That's a good point, danielle
[14:22] <Islwyn13> but he offered...DD offered
[14:22] <Narya> DD was their teacher at that time, so he wouldn't have been considered - they were too close as friends
[14:22] <hermeeownee> I know this isn't about lupin- but it would be intersting to talk about what people thing Peter's life debt will turng out to be in t book 7
[14:22] <Moriah> DD offered but James insisted on Sirius
[14:22] <fawkes28> im sure DD is the secret keeper for many things
[14:22] <Expelliarmas> DD offered to be secret keeper, but James turned him down
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[14:23] <Moriah> Maybe the change to Peter was too last minute to go back and ask DD
[14:23] <Narya> James and Sirius were like blood brothers - it was natural for James to choose Sirius, I think
[14:23] <Moriah> Yeah, I agree, Narya
[14:23] <fawkes28> i would love a book on the mauders
[14:23] <nympheart> James had every reason to trust Sirius
[14:23] <hermeeownee> so then why switch to peter?
[14:23] <Islwyn13> POssible, but wasn't it a week after Pettigrew was made SK that the Potter's were killed?
[14:23] <miss_danielle> I just dont understand why Peter. why. it just astounds me
[14:23] <Aislinn> yes, and sirius was the only one who could have talked james into switching
[14:23] <Moriah> Me too, Fawekes!
[14:23] <Islwyn13> That's a long time
[14:23] <Pleshette> But also obvious to the DE
[14:23] <nympheart> so would I fawkes
[14:23] <futureweasley> the Potters were a prime target, though. Actively seeking out DD would have been inviting all DE's and LV himself to hunt him for yet another reason
[14:23] <TrinarySystem> Jo has said that we'll learn everything about the past we need to know.
[14:23] <Narya> They switched because no one would suspect him
[14:24] <Islwyn13> I suppose that
[14:24] <nympheart> but what about what we want to know?
[14:24] <Narya> They underestimated him just like everyone else did
[14:24] <Islwyn13> sorry, I suppose taht's true
[14:24] <TrinarySystem> Maybe thatwill include more about the Marauders.
[14:24] <hermeeownee> need to kno w- or that she chooses to tell us!
[14:24] <Moriah> Yeah, I know, Trinary... but we can dream wink
[14:24] <Islwyn13> yeah, who would suspect Peter? Certainly LV wouldn't thin kto look for him?
[14:24] <Moriah> Ah, maybe
[14:24] <Narya> Even DD underestimated Peter - he managed to fool them all
[14:24] <Islwyn13> So he was the perfect choice, right?
[14:24] <fawkes28> i would love to have a separate book on a lot of things smile
[14:24] <Narya> A mark of Peter's cunning
[14:24] <Pleshette> The dirty rat!
[14:24] <bitznbats> I think they chose peter as they didn'y know what lupin could do when transformed (maybe he could have passed the secret to other werewolves) and peter seem so weak to everyone that everyone would think why chose him.
[14:24] <miss_danielle> yeah he was just perfect
[14:24] <Islwyn13> lol
[14:24] <Islwyn13> I was just thinking that Pleshette!
[14:24] <TrinarySystem> There probably will be something like the appendices to LotR.
[14:25] <Moriah> But bitznbats, Sirius admitted to suspecting Lupin as well
[14:25] <Narya> Peter worked on many levels - he was quiet, he was apparently weaker ...
[14:25] <Pleshette> A 10 volume set I hope
[14:25] <Islwyn13> But Sirius actually says, "forgive me for thinking you wee the spy.."
[14:25] <Islwyn13> it was more than just Lupin beinga werewolf
[14:25] <miss_danielle> It wasnt just about Peter, but about Remus
[14:25] <Moriah> Yeah
[14:25] <miss_danielle> and Remus has to live with that even though it was Sirius' decision
[14:25] <Expelliarmas> Were you surprised Lupin was so willing and ready to kill Peter Pettigrew?
[14:26] <Moriah> Yes
[14:26] <Aislinn> I was a bit, yeah
[14:26] <miss_danielle> i was
[14:26] <Islwyn13> I think Remus takes a lot of responsibility onto himself, just like Harry does
[14:26] <Narya> No I wasn't
[14:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> no
[14:26] <Islwyn13> Yes, very!
[14:26] <nympheart> I was initially shocked
[14:26] <hermeeownee> which also might explain his reticence to get to know Harry at first.
[14:26] <Islwyn13> harry, I expected...he was enraged
[14:26] <Moriah> I can understand it but it did surprise me
[14:26] <bitznbats> aI think that they suspected Lupin as they didn't know if he was passing knowelge unwitting when he was transformed
[14:26] <Aislinn> I think he saw it as a necessary evil
[14:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> He was passionate about finding the truth
[14:26] <Expelliarmas> I was glad, the miserable rat had it coming
[14:26] <nympheart> but then Peter caused him a lot of agony
[14:26] <Narya> It was a measure of the bond they had as friends - they were willing to die for each other
[14:26] <fawkes28> i was a little shocked
[14:26] <Islwyn13> Lupin is so much about justice, I didn't expect him to want to kill Peter
[14:26] <futureweasley> whoa, Expie
[14:26] <miss_danielle> think of how good that would have been though. All that rage he would let out.
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[14:26] <Moriah> I think he probably is very glad that Harry stopped him... even though Peter did what he later did
[14:26] <Ginny-From-A-Bottle> Peter hurt him a lot by the betrayal
[14:26] <Aislinn> I didn't see him doing it in a fit of passion, that way sirius was
[14:26] <TrinarySystem> Maybe his concept of justice allowed it?
[14:26] <hermeeownee> I think there was also fear of LV
[14:26] <miss_danielle> but then he didnt and it was down to him PP escaped
[14:26] <miss_danielle> as if he didnt have enough worries
[14:26] <futureweasley> I think what amazed me more was that he took Sirius's word at face value so quickly
[14:27] <Aislinn> me too moriah
[14:27] <TrinarySystem> He was very dispassionate about it.
[14:27] <fawkes28> yes but they were one great friends
[14:27] <Aislinn> I think he suggested together, so that sirius wouldn't have to be a killer alone
[14:27] <miss_danielle> Peter destroyed his entire life
[14:27] <Pleshette> Me too fw
[14:27] <Narya> Peter escaped because he transformed - no one could have predicted that
[14:27] <Islwyn13> that's true, Danielle...
[14:27] <TrinarySystem> He probably used legilimancy.
[14:27] <Islwyn13> Another reason to feel guilty
[14:27] <Aislinn> quite a mark of friendship
[14:27] <Expelliarmas> once Lupin had his facts, yes, I could see him taking Peter out
[14:27] <harryfreak359> uhh...what are we talking about now?
[14:27] <Islwyn13> Oo, good point Aislinn
[14:27] <Islwyn13> I hadn't thought of that
[14:27] <Moriah> Ah, maybe, Aislinn
[14:27] <futureweasley> if there was such a deep seeded suspicion between them, what would make that all inconseqential?
[14:27] <TrinarySystem> Sirius doesn't bereak eye contact with him and even nods.
[14:27] <Islwyn13> He may have known he couldn't stop Sirius, so did the best he could with what he had
[14:27] <Aislinn> right isl
[14:28] <Moriah> Yeah, I think he might be a Legilimens, too, Trinary
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[14:28] <Expelliarmas> hf359, we're talking about Lupin's willingness to kill Peter
[14:28] <Aislinn> hf, we're talking about the decision to kill peter
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[14:28] <Pleshette> They probabably didn't trust the Ministry to convict Peter
[14:28] <TrinarySystem> He was able to outwrestle Sirius earlier, though. He's very strong for someone so weak and ill.
[14:28] <gryffindelle> hi again
[14:28] <harryfreak359> thanks expel~
[14:28] <Pleshette> Sirius never had a trial
[14:28] <miss_danielle> I would have beaten the Rat to a bloody pulp, used Crucio several times then AK'd is ass. But thats just me
[14:28] <SoonerGryffindor> hey guys, have fun while I was away?
[14:28] <Islwyn13> Of course, it was Lupin that said, "Harry, this man..." when Harry yelled, "No!"
[14:28] <Islwyn13> Sio maybe Lupin had another reason for wanting to kill pettigre
[14:28] <Moriah> I agree, Aislinn and Islwyn, but I also think he was on a roller coaster of emotions and reacting rashly
[14:28] <nympheart> language danielle
[14:28] <Islwyn13> he tried to argue for his murder
[14:28] <futureweasley> they knew Sirius would be treated like the Prophet treated Harry and DD when LV returned
[14:28] <miss_danielle> apologies
[14:29] <Aislinn> I do think he saw it as necessary, to prevent further treachery
[14:29] <Moriah> Yeah, very true, Islwyn
[14:29] <futureweasley> they were already holding Sirius without trial, right?
[14:29] <harryfreak359> hmm...I never really thought about is behaviour
[14:29] <fawkes28> it would have been nice if they had done it
[14:29] <Pleshette> Yes fw
[14:29] <Aislinn> but obviously not strongly enough to carry it out, once Harry objected
[14:29] <hermeeownee> and they didn't know if PP would go back to LCV
[14:29] <Narya> They held him without a trial, yeah
[14:29] <miss_danielle> apologies
[14:29] <Islwyn13> but wrong
[14:30] <harryfreak359> this proves me wrong...he isn't as nice as I thought he was...
[14:30] <bitznbats> Sirius must have had a trial as DD said that he testified that Sirius was the Potter's secret keeper
[14:30] <futureweasley> yeah, then Lupin was not going to let the Ministry anywhere near making decisions in this particular case
[14:30] <TrinarySystem> Lupin basically conducts a trial, if you read it carefully. Again, maybe he has the right to do this, for a mysterious reason we don't know yet?
[14:30] <Narya> He was held without trial initially, though
[14:30] <Aislinn> no - he tells us he didn't have a trial
[14:30] <futureweasley> that, and everyone already thought that Pettigrew was dead
[14:30] <Moriah> Sirius said Crouch sent him to Azkaban without trial
[14:30] <Islwyn13> Sirius didn't have a trial
[14:30] <Aislinn> DD may have told the Ministry, but not ina trial
[14:30] <miss_danielle> i didnt think he had a trial
[14:30] <Islwyn13> DD gave "testimony", but not at a trial
[14:30] <harryfreak359> Sirius didn't have a trial
[14:30] <Moriah> There might have been a hearing where DD testified
[14:30] <fawkes28> even if he did there was sooooo much evidence agaist sirius
[14:30] <Islwyn13> probablymore of a consultation
[14:30] <nympheart> which is odd because dd stood up for Snape
[14:30] <Moriah> Right, Islwyn
[14:30] <TrinarySystem> I guess it's obvious that I think something strange is going on with Lupin LOL
[14:30] <Expelliarmas> yep, Lupin played the role of proecutor and judge, good for him
[14:30] <Narya> DD testified at a hearing, I think, not a full trial
[14:30] <TrinarySystem> yes, exactly
[14:31] <SoonerGryffindor> honestly, does anyone think a trial would have helped?
[14:31] <Aislinn> and what do you think that is, trinary?
[14:31] <harryfreak359> no
[14:31] <gryffindelle> no
[14:31] <SoonerGryffindor> with all the evidence
[14:31] <futureweasley> no
[14:31] <fawkes28> he would have been found guilty anyway
[14:31] <nympheart> maybe
[14:31] <TrinarySystem> this is for Peter, not sirius, by theway, just to be clear
[14:31] <Moriah> It might have
[14:31] <miss_danielle> a trial wouldnt have helped
[14:31] <Narya> Not at that time, no
[14:31] <harryfreak359> no probably not
[14:31] <Islwyn13> no , but it's the principle of the thing
[14:31] <gryffindelle> because nobody would have believed that pettigrew was still alive
[14:31] <SoonerGryffindor> exactly
[14:31] <harryfreak359> especially if crouch was in charge at the time
[14:31] <TrinarySystem> Oh, I don't think I can say anything more directly.
[14:31] <Moriah> Lupin might have at least looked into the story
[14:31] <hermeeownee> I don't think they wanted to know the truth.... "they coudn't handle the truth".....
[14:31] <Narya> The Ministry were determined to put someone behind bars for the murder of the Muggles
[14:31] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
[14:31] <Pleshette> No but I can see that as motivation to killing Peter instead of turning him over to MOM
[14:31] <Moriah> And tried to find Pettigrew the rat
[14:31] <futureweasley> yeah, Crouch, the McCarthy of Wizarding London
[14:32] <TrinarySystem> Sorry to be so obscure, but I suspect it may vlow the roof off the entire series....
[14:32] <nympheart> they could have proven that the spell that killed Peter didn't come from Sirius's wand
[14:32] <Aislinn> the fact that he didn't have a trial says more about Crouch Sr than it does the likelihood of Sirius being imprisoned
[14:32] <harryfreak359> the ministry really needs to get some real leaders in there
[14:32] <gryffindelle> what might, trinary
[14:32] <Aislinn> he was definitely going to be sent away
[14:32] <miss_danielle> exactly Aislinn
[14:32] <Narya> They could have proved that, but they didn't want to
[14:32] <Moriah> Good point, Aislinn
[14:32] <fawkes28> the ministry needs to look good
[14:32] <Pleshette> They "had their man" case closed
[14:32] <Islwyn13> always
[14:32] <Moriah> But I do think Lupin might have tried to find out the truth
[14:33] <harryfreak359> I think so too
[14:33] <gryffindelle> kinda like te stan shuntpike thing in hbp
[14:33] <miss_danielle> i think he might have too
[14:33] <futureweasley> but every effort they make to save face just leaves them looking worse
[14:33] <Narya> Sirius's fate was sealed by Peter and he knew it - that's why he laughed
[14:33] <Narya> He knew how clever Peter had been
[14:33] <Islwyn13> yes, an ironic laugh
[14:33] <hermeeownee> the ministry had to look like they were doing something - just like they did 15 years later.
[14:33] <Moriah> Yeah, true, Narya
[14:33] <fawkes28> yes but it made sirius look crazy by laughing
[14:33] <Aislinn> Peter was quite clever
[14:33] <bitznbats> but if Lupin believe that Sirius was the secret keeper then to his mind only one person could have betrayed the potters
[14:33] <TrinarySystem> he couldn't believe he'd been had by the rat. he went a little crazy.
[14:33] <Moriah> He was a little crazy
[14:33] <Expelliarmas> Why did Lupin trust Snape to make the Wolfsbane Potion? After all, do you think Lupin felt the same animosity toward Snape which Snape certainly felt for Lupin?
[14:33] <Aislinn> going so far as to cut off a finger to "prove" he was dead
[14:34] <hermeeownee> did Lupin have a choice?
[14:34] <Islwyn13> I don't think he felt the same animosity, and I think he trusted DD
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[14:34] <Moriah> I don't think Lupin felt the same animosity
[14:34] <Narya> I think Remus trusted Snape to be the master at Potions and to brew it correctly
[14:34] <fawkes28> i dont think snape would have done it for sirius or james
[14:34] <gryffindelle> I think probably for the same reason that dd trusts snape, whatever that may be
[14:34] <Islwyn13> To watch Snape, maybe
[14:34] <nympheart> because DD trusted Snape
[14:34] <futureweasley> Lupin was also Dumbledore's man through and through...DD mandated it, and Lupin followed
[14:34] <fawkes28> i think lupin just was the quiet one in the background for the most part
[14:34] <Islwyn13> I don't think anyone but DD knows why DD trusts Snape
[14:34] <nympheart> I agree fawkes
[14:34] <Aislinn> I think that Lupin is in general a more trusting soul than Snape
[14:34] <Moriah> Exactly, future
[14:34] <Islwyn13> I think Snape has a very private reason
[14:34] <Aislinn> and accepted Dumbledore's assurances
[14:34] <gryffindelle> I think select order members probably know, isl
[14:34] <Narya> Remus is a trusting person, that's true
[14:34] <gryffindelle> *knew
[14:35] <Islwyn13> like who?
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[14:35] <Moriah> I think only DD knew
[14:35] <Narya> So if DD was sure, Remus was sure - we were told that in HBP
[14:35] <SoonerGryffindor> I think because of the life that Lupin has ad, he's much more sumpathetic to Snape
[14:35] <nympheart> I agree SG
[14:35] <gryffindelle> no idea, I just think that he would have told someone
[14:35] <Moriah> Well said, Sooner
[14:35] <fawkes28> i was thinking that maybe lupin would be one of the first people to start questioning whether snape is good or bad since snape did make the poition for him
[14:35] <Islwyn13> but I think those order members merely took DD's assurances
[14:35] <futureweasley> Snape could have seen it as "WWJD" (what would James do?) and consider it paying off his own life debt to James (in a twisted way)
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[14:35] <Islwyn13> I don't think they knew why DD trusted Snape
[14:35] <Expelliarmas> the other members of staff knew, Lupin tells us this in the schack
[14:35] <Moriah> Me too, fawkes!!
[14:35] <gryffindelle> maybe lupin and sirius, so they didn't try to kill snape
[14:35] <Expelliarmas> *shack
[14:36] <SoonerGryffindor> even from SWM, you can see that Lupin was uncomfortable with taunting Snape
[14:36] <nympheart> i have to leave
[14:36] <nympheart> bye
[14:36] <futureweasley> boo
[14:36] <Aislinn> bye nympheart
[14:36] <Pleshette> Bye
[14:36] <Moriah> Bye nymph
[14:36] <futureweasley> bye nymph
[14:36] <fawkes28> bye
[14:36] <Islwyn13> Later, nymph!
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[14:36] <harryfreak359> does anyone notice, that it is impossible to go through one of these chats, with out snape coming into it.
[14:36] <SoonerGryffindor> bye nymph
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[14:36] <Narya> Remus was uncomfortable, true, but there is a long history between all of them
[14:36] <SoonerGryffindor>
[14:36] <Pleshette> Lol
[14:36] <gryffindelle> lol
[14:36] <Islwyn13> That's becaue he's so pervasive!
[14:36] <Islwyn13> He's EVERYWHERE!
[14:36] <Narya> Snape gets around
[14:36] <harryfreak359> lol
[14:36] <Pleshette> lol
[14:37] <harryfreak359> an unique character...
[14:37] <Expelliarmas> the greaseball is everywhere
[14:37] <Pleshette> He's very slippery
[14:37] <hermeeownee> that's an interesting way to put it narya...
[14:37] <gryffindelle> hes more interesting than harry, even
[14:37] <SoonerGryffindor> hey!
[14:37] * futureweasley is fighting the urge to comment about how Snape "gets around"
[14:37] <Islwyn13> He's a fantastic character, just a lousy human being
[14:37] <Aislinn> I wonder if Lupin has any access to the potion anymore?
[14:37] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
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[14:37] <Islwyn13> lol, FW
[14:37] <fawkes28> he ihe must take it somehow
[14:37] <Narya> I don't think he does, Aislinn
[14:37] <futureweasley> I don't think so, Aislinn
[14:37] <Islwyn13> I don't think so, eitehr
[14:37] <Expelliarmas> I hope Lupin learned to make that potion
[14:37] <Narya> Which is a worry
[14:37] <Moriah> He made it sound like he just had it that one year, Aislinn
[14:37] <SoonerGryffindor> good question Aislinn
[14:37] <hermeeownee> well - at this point it is important that he does transform.
[14:37] <Aislinn> it doesn't seem like many people are able to brew it
[14:37] <Islwyn13> It's supposed to be very difficult to make
[14:38] <gryffindelle> snape might still make it for him, as they're both order members
[14:38] <Narya> True, and Remus acknowledges that
[14:38] <Moriah> Very true, hermee
[14:38] <SoonerGryffindor> I wonder if Snape still made it through HBP though
[14:38] <Islwyn13> not now...
[14:38] <SoonerGryffindor> since they were both in the order
[14:38] <Pleshette> He should ask Hermione
[14:38] <futureweasley> don't you think that out of necessity, Lupin would become a master potions maker?
[14:38] <Aislinn> that is a good point hermee
[14:38] <Islwyn13> lol
[14:38] <fawkes28> lol
[14:38] * Expelliarmas speaking of the greaseball
[14:38] <Islwyn13> yeah, she could probalby do it
[14:38] <harryfreak359> Well if he is now staying with the other werewolves, then he probably wouldn't want to anyways, it could blow his cover
[14:38] <Islwyn13> only if he can
[14:38] <Aislinn> he needs to be "one of them" with the other werewolves
[14:38] <Moriah> In HBP, Lupin makes it sound like it was just while he was teaching that Snape made the potion
[14:38] <hermeeownee> at least for that potion!!
[14:38] <SoonerGryffindor> If Harry still had his book, I bet he could make it too
[14:38] <fawkes28> maybe lily made it for him
[14:38] <Islwyn13> necessity doesn't necessarily make you able to do something
[14:38] <Expelliarmas> What did you think of Snape’s “slip” at breakfast the day after Sirius escaped?
[14:38] <Aislinn> but he probably still transforms with the potion - just keeps his head
[14:38] <Moriah> Which surprised me
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[14:38] <TrinarySystem> You transform with the potion, you just don't become vicious.
[14:38] <Pleshette> Just like him to do that
[14:38] <Islwyn13> he was enraged, he wanted to hurt someone
[14:38] <futureweasley> what slip? remind me
[14:38] <Narya> I think the "slip" was deliberate
[14:38] <Islwyn13> Lupin was the easiest target
[14:39] <SoonerGryffindor> he was mad
[14:39] <Islwyn13> let slip taht Lupin was a werewolf
[14:39] <harryfreak359> Ha,,,just so snape
[14:39] <Pleshette> Oh definitely Narya
[14:39] <Aislinn> it was a typical snape move - petty and vicious
[14:39] <Moriah> I don't think he could take the potion and be with the other werewolves
[14:39] <SoonerGryffindor> that;s just how Snape is.... gotta love the little greaseball
[14:39] <hermeeownee> "he had suffered a loss" - and he wanted someone to pay...
[14:39] <TrinarySystem> Lupin says he was able to curl up in his office as a harmless wolf in PoA.
[14:39] <gryffindelle> hi prongs
[14:39] <Expelliarmas> Snape let Lupin's condition slip at breakfast
[14:39] <Pleshette> Love is a strong word SG
[14:39] <harryfreak359> such a slytherin like thing to do
[14:39] <SoonerGryffindor> hehehe
[14:39] <ProngsPatronus> Hi, gryffindelle
[14:39] <Aislinn> right trinary
[14:39] <futureweasley> hi Prongs!
[14:39] <miss_danielle> lol Snape is funny - i can imagine it being the most un sly slip ever though
[14:39] <Islwyn13> do you think Snape was in any way influenced by "the curse" on the DADA job?
[14:39] <Islwyn13> Lupin could well have stayed if Snape hadn't said anything
[14:40] <Narya> Just a pity that Snape couldn't hold his dignity, like Remus did
[14:40] <Islwyn13> and that would go against teh curse
[14:40] <Aislinn> ooh, interesting isl
[14:40] <ProngsPatronus> Hi, futureweasley!
[14:40] <TrinarySystem> Should I say that I think that there is probbaly more going on between Lupin and Snape than we know?
[14:40] <Expelliarmas> it was a miserable thing to do, but that was the jinx coming into play
[14:40] <harryfreak359> I wish I could have witnessed it though...when he let it slip
[14:40] <Moriah> I think Lupin would have resigned anyway
[14:40] <gryffindelle> he was annoyed with lupin for not standing up for his fellow staff member in the shack the prev. night
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[14:40] <futureweasley> I'm not so sure about that Moriah
[14:40] <fawkes28> i think so too moriah
[14:40] <Narya> I think so too Moriah, but there was still no need to do that
[14:40] <harryfreak359> Yeah he would have
[14:40] <miss_danielle> i always think he was influenced by the curse - why DD never gave it to him
[14:40] <Islwyn13> possibly
[14:40] <Moriah> He felt terrible putting so many people in harms way
[14:40] <Pleshette> Yeah me too Moria
[14:40] <TrinarySystem> Snape basiocally ensured that "the curse" would hold, didn't he?
[14:40] <Islwyn13> yeah, that's true, Moriah
[14:40] <miss_danielle> until HBP of course
[14:40] <futureweasley> he was a good teacher, and the students were all better off after taking his class
[14:41] <gryffindelle> yeah
[14:41] <TrinarySystem> If Lupin didn't resign, Snape would have tried to force him to by giving away his secret.
[14:41] <futureweasley> it's strange, because Lupin "chose" to leave...didn't really fit in the "DADA Curse" category
[14:41] <ProngsPatronus> I think Snape let slip about Remus because he had been frustrated by another Marauder, Sirius, and wanted to get back at one of them
[14:41] <harryfreak359> well they were more knowledgeable on dark creatures
[14:41] <fawkes28> lord v really did do a good job with that curse
[14:41] <Narya> Exactly, PP
[14:41] <Aislinn> they were FW, and it should be about balancing risk/benefit
[14:41] <ProngsPatronus> displaced anger--very bad stuff
[14:41] <TrinarySystem> No, it didn't, did it?
[14:41] <harryfreak359> but not really on curses
[14:41] <TrinarySystem> I'm skeptical that there really is a curse, by the way.
[14:41] <Narya> Remus of course, did the right thing by resigning
[14:41] <Islwyn13> oh, why, Trinary?
[14:42] <Pleshette> Snape may have thought Remus was involved in helping Sirius escape
[14:42] <Expelliarmas> Lupin had no choince but to leave
[14:42] <fawkes28> why trinary?
[14:42] <gryffindelle> why narya
[14:42] <Expelliarmas> the jinx kicks in because now his condition has been revealed for the world to see
[14:42] <miss_danielle> he had to leave i agree
[14:42] <TrinarySystem> Because Remus chose to leave, and I think this is important.
[14:42] <DALeader> he had a choice
[14:42] <Islwyn13> Well, we don't know the wording of the curse, exactly
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[14:42] <Narya> Remus chose to leave to protect his students and to ensure no harm came to Hogwarts
[14:42] <gryffindelle> but he would have been kicked out if he hadn't quit
[14:42] <Expelliarmas> the slytherin parents would not have allowed Lupin to stay
[14:42] <gryffindelle> exactly
[14:42] <Islwyn13> it doesn't necessaily say that "all future teachers will be FORCED out of their positions"
[14:43] <futureweasley> he did have a choice, and I think he made the wrong one
[14:43] <Narya> The governors would have made it difficult for him to stay
[14:43] <miss_danielle> yeh but the curse is that nobody teaches for more than a year - and he didnt. whether he left or not is irrelevant for me
[14:43] <ProngsPatronus> well, it was either quit or be fired
[14:43] <harryfreak359> They needed another teacher anyways...one that could teach them about curses, and not creatures
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[14:43] <Expelliarmas> Lucius Malfoy would have been marchingat the gates
[14:43] <futureweasley> I think DD and the students would agree
[14:43] <harryfreak359> wb aislinn!
[14:43] <ProngsPatronus> Lupin chose to quit
[14:43] <Islwyn13> agreed, Danielle
[14:43] <Islwyn13> before he was forced to leave, Prongs
[14:43] <Pleshette> True but DD would have stood up for him
[14:43] <TrinarySystem> I think there may be much more powerful "magic" at play here than we know yet, and it was necessary for Lupin to be exposed as a werewolf.
[14:43] <Narya> Remus chose to go to protect DD as well, not that DD needed protection
[14:43] <Islwyn13> I think he still would have had to leave
[14:43] <futureweasley> yes, and Lupin would have none of that
[14:43] <Moriah> It still wasn't completely his choice. He did decide to leave but did not decide his cirrcumstances
[14:43] <Islwyn13> hmm..
[14:43] <Aislinn> I do too isl
[14:43] <fawkes28> yes DD would have but then there are the govenors
[14:43] <Islwyn13> right, Moriah
[14:43] <TrinarySystem> He has a sort of destiny himself, I believe, just like Harry.
[14:43] <futureweasley> governors...
[14:43] <Pleshette> DD chose to Hagrid to teach (half-giant)
[14:44] * futureweasley rolls her eyes
[14:44] <fawkes28> school board
[14:44] <Expelliarmas> DD would not have been able to protect Lupin from the slytherin parents
[14:44] <Moriah> Moody only agreed to one year. That didn't break the curse
[14:44] <ProngsPatronus> LOL
[14:44] <Aislinn> no, it would have gotten out one way or another
[14:44] <harryfreak359> DD likes to surprise people I think, by making weird appointments
[14:44] <fawkes28> cant the governors of the school override DD?
[14:44] <ProngsPatronus> or any parent that didn't know him persoanlly
[14:44] <futureweasley> again, people who don't know their butt from their elbow
[14:44] <harryfreak359> lol
[14:44] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
[14:44] <TrinarySystem> If he had remained safely at Hogwarts, rather like Hagrid, he would not be facing his future the way he needs to.
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[14:45] <harryfreak359> geez, I have to go, again...
[14:45] <SoonerGryffindor> bye HF
[14:45] <futureweasley> bye again harryfreak!
[14:45] <gryffindelle> ok, bye harryfreak
[14:45] <Moriah> Bye HF
[14:45] <fawkes28> see ya
[14:45] <Narya> I don't think Remus was using Hogwarts as an escape from what he needs to face, Trinary
[14:45] <SoonerGryffindor> good to have you here
[14:45] <Expelliarmas> with DADA, "weird" is the order of the day
[14:45] * harryfreak359 curses lunch
[14:45] <Aislinn> I don't either, narya
[14:45] <ProngsPatronus> If Rita Skeeter had gotten hold of it, can you imagine what would have happened?
[14:45] <Narya> Remus is not that kind of wizard
[14:45] <fawkes28> i wonder what lupin does during harry's 4th year
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[14:45] <Aislinn> In fact, I hope he can come back to the school and teach at the end of the series
[14:45] <Moriah> Me too, Fawkes
[14:45] <Narya> Rita would have done her usual hatchet job in the Prophet
[14:46] <Narya> He won't teach Aislinn
[14:46] <Expelliarmas> Now, as an adult and Hogwarts teacher, Lupin still keeps secrets from Dumbledore. Do you think the reason he kept this secret justifies hiding such an enormous piece of information? What do you think of his reasoning?
[14:46] <futureweasley> goes underground and tries to feel out the other werewolves
[14:46] <Narya> JKR said so
[14:46] <TrinarySystem> I don't either, but if he had stayed, things would have turned out very differently.
[14:46] * Moriah always wonders what Remus does
[14:46] * SoonerGryffindor really cannot stand Rita Skeeter
[14:46] <Islwyn13> no justification, really
[14:46] * futureweasley loves that Rita gets her just desserts
[14:46] <Islwyn13> he betrayed DD's trust as a child, and was stil ashamed of it as an adult
[14:46] <fawkes28> i think that lupin didnt want DD to be disappointed with him
[14:46] <gryffindelle> what secret again?
[14:46] <Narya> Remus keeps his secrets because that's who he is
[14:46] <Islwyn13> so he kept it hidden
[14:46] <Aislinn> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showforum=184. Don't forget to vote in the latest poll
[14:46] <Islwyn13> that he used to wander teh grounds as a werewolf
[14:46] <gryffindelle> oh
[14:46] <Islwyn13> with the rest of the Marauders as Animagi in tow
[14:46] <Islwyn13> more importantly, that Sirius was an animagi
[14:47] <Islwyn13> animagus...sorry
[14:47] <Islwyn13> And that they knew secret passageways into and out of the castle
[14:47] <gryffindelle> I can understand it, but that still doesn't mean that I think its justified
[14:47] <Narya> A natural consequence of their mischief and strong bond Islywn
[14:47] <Islwyn13> things that helped Sirius get into the castle
[14:47] <Expelliarmas> do you think DD now knows the secret passages?
[14:47] <Islwyn13> true, but Lupin let his childhood guilt get in the way of present day dangers
[14:47] <gryffindelle> maybe
[14:47] <Moriah> Yeah, he has to, right?
[14:47] <Moriah> He built them
[14:47] <SoonerGryffindor> actually, I do think it was irresponsible of Remus
[14:48] <Expelliarmas> it doesn't seem Lupin was entirely forthcoming, because in another book, D was surprised about the map
[14:48] <Islwyn13> of course, ulitmately, taht would hav eled to disaster, since Sirius would have been recaptured before teh truth could be revealed
[14:48] <Narya> Sirius would have figured those out withouth help - he, with James, was the most intelligent of them all
[14:48] <Islwyn13> but teh ends don't justify the means, I don't think
[14:48] <SoonerGryffindor> but that's one of the things that makes him more human
[14:48] <fawkes28> but he always had trouble speaking up
[14:48] <Moriah> Yeah, Sooner. One of his faults
[14:48] <gryffindelle> not necessarily, moriah, they could've already been there
[14:48] <Islwyn13> yes, but Lupin knew about it
[14:48] <Islwyn13> and didn't tell DD
[14:48] <miss_danielle> i can understand at first but when Sirius actually got into the castle and was slashing thing about - it was a bit reckless not to tell DD
[14:48] <TrinarySystem> what if he had told DD, though? Sirius would have been turned over to the dementors and peter would have continued to live as a rat.
[14:48] <Islwyn13> agreed, Danielle
[14:48] <Narya> I can understand why he didn't tell DD
[14:48] <Islwyn13> yes, but that's not why Lupin didn't tell DD
[14:48] <Aislinn> I think that Lupin had his doubts about Sirius' guilt
[14:48] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Dumbledore must know about the passages--didn't he have the Whomping Willow planted at the mouth of the Shrieking Shack one to protect him?
[14:48] <fawkes28> i think jk does a good job to show that all the adults are just human and make mistakes
[14:48] <Aislinn> and that played into his reasoning
[14:48] <Pleshette> I have to leave. Great chat everyone!
[14:49] <Moriah> Well, he at least placed the Willow over the passage and knew that Remus took it to his tranformations every month
[14:49] <futureweasley> thanks for coming Pleshette
[14:49] <fawkes28> bye
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[14:49] <Moriah> Bye Pleshette!
[14:49] <Aislinn> as well as his own wish to not be lowered in DD's view
[14:49] <miss_danielle> bye pleshette
[14:49] <Islwyn13> yes, but Dd didn't know that James, Sirius, and Peter knew about that
[14:49] <Moriah> True, Islwyn
[14:49] <Expelliarmas> interesting that Lupin doesn't give DD the map
[14:49] <Islwyn13> it was supposed to be a secret taht only DD, Lupin, and Pomfrey (?) knew
[14:49] <Narya> DD couldn't possibly have known everything that was going on
[14:49] <TrinarySystem> DD did a lot for Remus really, more than for anyone else we know.
[14:49] <fawkes28> i think harry needs it more
[14:49] <SoonerGryffindor> that was another thing.... not giving DD the map
[14:49] <Moriah> But you'd think he'd suspect the possibility
[14:49] <futureweasley> I don't like that Lupin showed that big type of hole in his responsible manner
[14:49] <SoonerGryffindor> or letting him know about it
[14:49] <Islwyn13> he's human, too
[14:49] <TrinarySystem> He never accomodated Harry or Tom the same way.
[14:49] <futureweasley> the map, the secret about the animagi
[14:49] <Moriah> But maybe he trusted Remus to come to him if Sirius did know
[14:50] <fawkes28> i think dd would have wanted harry to have the map
[14:50] <Narya> Remus gave Harry the Map because he knew Harry would need it more
[14:50] <futureweasley> it's just not very characteristic of him
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[14:50] <Aislinn> I think it is evidence of his very human flaws
[14:50] <Narya> He trusted Harry to do the right thing with it
[14:50] <SoonerGryffindor> exactlyt
[14:50] <Expelliarmas> which means Lupin was still keeping secrets from DD
[14:50] <Aislinn> and the damage that his lycanthropy has done to him
[14:50] <Islwyn13> I think it fits his personality
[14:50] <fawkes28> i mean harry already has the cloak
[14:50] <SoonerGryffindor> which is one reason why JKR's characters are so "real" to us
[14:50] <Islwyn13> he betrayed someone who trusted him...
[14:50] <futureweasley> he was a prefect...Percy would have NEVER kept that kind of secret
[14:50] <ProngsPatronus> the map and the secret was all he had left of James, Peter, and Sirius
[14:50] <futureweasley> LOL!
[14:50] <Islwyn13> he's stil very ashamed of that betrayal
[14:50] <Moriah> DD knows about the map after GoF, anyway
[14:50] <miss_danielle> lol Percy
[14:50] <Aislinn> You're using Percy as an example of good, FW?!?
[14:50] <Islwyn13> he could't bare to see disappointment in DD's face
[14:50] <Moriah> Mood talks about it in the confession
[14:50] <Islwyn13> Ron's a prefect too...
[14:50] <Moriah> Er, Crouch Jr.
[14:51] <futureweasley> I amaze myself sometimes
[14:51] <hermeeownee> he does now Moriah...
[14:51] <Islwyn13> and Hermione...
[14:51] <fawkes28> harry cant bare it either
[14:51] <Islwyn13> and THEY keep secrets smile
[14:51] * SoonerGryffindor is going to take FW to St Mungos after this for a check-up
[14:51] <Narya> I don't think DD would have been disappointed in him Islwyn
[14:51] <Islwyn13> true, Fawkes, I was just htinking that
[14:51] <Islwyn13> but Lupin did, adn that's what's important
[14:51] <fawkes28> lupin and harry are similiar
[14:51] <futureweasley> I see Inferi, they're everywhere
[14:51] <SoonerGryffindor> biggrin
[14:51] <Narya> I think Remus takes too much on his shoulders - needlessly
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[14:51] <TrinarySystem> extremely similar
[14:51] <Islwyn13> agreef
[14:51] <fawkes28> future do you have a fever?
[14:51] <ProngsPatronus> LOL_-he is a Gryffindor!
[14:52] <Islwyn13> but I think that's why he didn't tell DD, and it was irresponsible not to, given what he knew (which admittedly was incomplete)
[14:52] <Narya> Remus has flaws - so does every other character in the series
[14:52] <TrinarySystem> Again, maybe his burdens are even greater than we know?
[14:52] <Aislinn> I think that Dumbledore understands that people have faults, and forgives them, so I agree narya
[14:52] <futureweasley> is that Canon? That Peter is a Gryffindor?
[14:52] <SoonerGryffindor> agreed, Narya
[14:52] <Narya> They were all irresponsible
[14:52] <Islwyn13> yeah, I love him for it smile
[14:52] <Expelliarmas> I thought DD was rather impressed with the ability to keep the animagi info from him
[14:52] <SoonerGryffindor> one of the things that makes him so loveable
[14:52] <Islwyn13> But it was still a mistake
[14:52] <Narya> Everyone makes them
[14:52] <Islwyn13> no, not really, FW
[14:52] <Moriah> I think it's only assumed, future
[14:52] <Aislinn> yes, everyone makes them
[14:52] <fawkes28> including DD
[14:52] * futureweasley is perfect
[14:52] <futureweasley> LOL
[14:52] <Islwyn13> she may have said it in an interview, but the question was a bit ambiguous, so we're not absolutely sure Pter was in Gryfindor
[14:52] <SoonerGryffindor> laugh
[14:52] <Narya> DD made many as he said
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[14:53] <Aislinn> I am sure he is
[14:53] <ProngsPatronus> I meant that Remus is a Gryffindor
[14:53] <Moriah> Yeah, I feel confident that Peter was in Gryffindor
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[14:53] <ProngsPatronus> with all the flaws and strengths that entails
[14:53] <Aislinn> , just to let you know, the Wize Wizard chat poll can be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showtopic=32415&pid=925921&st=0&#entry925921
[14:53] <SoonerGryffindor> Remus is definitely a Gryf
[14:53] <gryffindelle> what if peter isn't a gryffindor
[14:53] <Islwyn13> someone asked JKR, "what house were Remus Lupin, Sirius Black, James Potter, and Sirius Black in?"
[14:53] <futureweasley> everyones' faults make them vulnerable, and I think that's what is so appealing to us as readers
[14:53] <Islwyn13> and JKR said they were in Gryffindor
[14:53] <Expelliarmas> Many readers see Lupin as another father figure or mentor for Harry. What are your thoughts on this and what role do you think Lupin will play in book 7, whether it relates to his relationship with Harry or not?
[14:53] <TrinarySystem> Remus is definitely a Gryffindor.
[14:53] <SoonerGryffindor> mentor, not father figure
[14:53] <Islwyn13> Lupin will be a great guide for Harry, I think
[14:54] <futureweasley> thank you, Isl...I hadn't remembered that
[14:54] <Islwyn13> emotionally
[14:54] <futureweasley> agreed Sooner
[14:54] * Expelliarmas would feel better if Peter had been in Slytherin!
[14:54] <Islwyn13> np smile
[14:54] <Narya> I think Remus is the last mentor left and that's important
[14:54] <fawkes28> i think his relationship with harry is the most important now that sirius and DD are gone
[14:54] <Moriah> Oh, I'd hate that, Expell!
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[14:54] <TrinarySystem> Harry needs a private tutor in DADA
[14:54] <miss_danielle> i think Remus will play a huge role
[14:54] <futureweasley> Mentor...better description
[14:54] <fawkes28> if harry decides to get help from the adults
[14:54] <Aislinn> and the new P3 poll can be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showtopic=32590&pid=928480&st=0&#entry928480
[14:54] <Moriah> I'm sick of evil Slytherins
[14:54] <gryffindelle> yeah, fawkes
[14:54] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Moriah
[14:54] <futureweasley> ROCK THE VOTE!!!
[14:54] <Islwyn13> Well, what would make Lupin a father figure then?
[14:54] <Moriah> And only good people from other houses
[14:54] <SoonerGryffindor> I am ready for a good Slytherin
[14:54] <Islwyn13> He loves Harry, he guides Harry...
[14:55] <Moriah> He's a great role model
[14:55] <TrinarySystem> There is one type of father figure that Harry has never understood that he has yet, and the Patronus has something to do qwith it.
[14:55] <futureweasley> Mentors do those things, too. I see Arthur as a better "father figure"
[14:55] <gryffindelle> if he leaves hogwarts, then harry will need someone to teach him what he still needs to learn
[14:55] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Lupin will be Harry's friend, more than a mentor
[14:55] <Aislinn> me too FW
[14:55] <fawkes28> i think remus can be both for harry
[14:55] <Expelliarmas> Well, I don't see Lupin returning to his undercover werewolf role
[14:55] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Islwyn-- I have answers to that, but only smart-aleck ones
[14:55] <ProngsPatronus> the time for harry to need that is gone
[14:55] <gryffindelle> lupin might fill that teacher spot
[14:55] <Moriah> His dad's closest remaining friend
[14:55] <Moriah> Yeah, I wonder about that too, Expell
[14:55] <Islwyn13> hehe
[14:55] <futureweasley> Friend and mentor...not bad titles to have
[14:56] <gryffindelle> yeah
[14:56] <Islwyn13> JKR has said that Harry knows what he needs to know for his last quest
[14:56] <Islwyn13> didn't she?
[14:56] <Islwyn13> not sure how much teacing Harry will receive
[14:56] <fawkes28> i hope he confides in remus
[14:56] <Aislinn> Lupin needs to go back to Hogwarts and be a teacher - it would be the best thing for him and the students
[14:56] <Islwyn13> I think he'll learn as he goes...learn how much he already knows, and how to use it
[14:56] <hermeeownee> He needs to be convinced of what he knows.
[14:56] <futureweasley> Lupin, live or die?
[14:56] <TrinarySystem> He won't, JKR has said this.
[14:56] <Islwyn13> oo...
[14:56] <hermeeownee> live
[14:56] <ProngsPatronus> only after someone like Umbridge is gone from the WW
[14:56] <Islwyn13> I'm afraid he might die sad
[14:56] <fawkes28> live
[14:56] <miss_danielle> die
[14:56] <gryffindelle> live, i hope
[14:56] <SoonerGryffindor> live, livel, live
[14:56] <Moriah> I don't know. I think he's going to focus on Order business, Aislinn
[14:56] <Islwyn13> JKR says she won't target teh extras...
[14:56] <Moriah> Oh, I hope he lives
[14:57] <miss_danielle> i will cry for a week if he dies - but i think he will
[14:57] <Islwyn13> I do, too...
[14:57] <Aislinn> It would be so tragic for all of the 'good' Maurauders to die
[14:57] <gryffindelle> but i think he might die, just because he is the only marauder left
[14:57] <futureweasley> is Lupin an extra?
[14:57] <Islwyn13> I just don' tknow
[14:57] <Aislinn> I really hope he lives
[14:57] <TrinarySystem> I'm sure he will die, but believe me, it will be absolutely necessary.
[14:57] <Moriah> But as long as he doesn't turn evil. I'd never forgive Jo
[14:57] <Islwyn13> No,
[14:57] <fawkes28> he just found love i dont think she will take him away
[14:57] <Islwyn13> Taht's why he might get teh ax
[14:57] <Expelliarmas> I think Lupin has more info on Lily, what, exactly, I don't konw, but
[14:57] <futureweasley> doh!
[14:57] <Islwyn13> That's true, too, Fawkes
[14:57] <Aislinn> we need those little pink wolf puppies!
[14:57] <miss_danielle> yeh i agree Expel
[14:57] <futureweasley> yes Aislinn!
[14:57] <fawkes28> love is important
[14:57] <Moriah> Good idea, Expell
[14:57] <gryffindelle> *only good marauder left
[14:57] <futureweasley> pink wolf puppies PWN
[14:57] <fawkes28> lupin stays
[14:57] <Islwyn13> Ok, I change my vote, Lupin lives smile
[14:58] <fawkes28> hehe
[14:58] <Moriah> haha, yay!!
[14:58] <TrinarySystem> Love is more imporatant than we understand yet.
[14:58] <miss_danielle> i will too - i feel mean saying hel die
[14:58] <Islwyn13> If he dies, Harry will hold that up to Ginny to prove they shouldn't be together, and that'l never do
[14:58] <futureweasley> reform on the Corner Booth! I love that!
[14:58] <gryffindelle> pwn?
[14:58] <hermeeownee> agreed.
[14:58] <miss_danielle> Lol
[14:58] <fawkes28> oh yes that wouldnt be good
[14:58] <arabella84> Tonks has already been miserable for one book. Don't take Lupin away!
[14:58] <futureweasley> pwn = rules
[14:58] <Aislinn> exactly arabella
[14:58] <fawkes28> we need all the love we can get to get rid of you know who
[14:58] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Lupin needs to live be the last remaining surviving maurader
[14:58] <miss_danielle> Aw love smile
[14:58] <Aislinn> OK, folks, its been wonderful!
[14:58] <Islwyn13> "All ya need is love..."
[14:59] <ProngsPatronus> see y'all later!
[14:59] <Moriah> Who cares about Tonks... don't take Lupin from me wink
[14:59] <Islwyn13> later, Prongs!
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[14:59] <Aislinn> hope you all can join us tonight for the Scribbulus chat
[14:59] <miss_danielle> Lol
[14:59] <futureweasley> love is the best
[14:59] <arabella84> ha
[14:59] <TrinarySystem> It's just that most people are misdefining Love.
[14:59] * Moriah does love Tonks
[14:59] <hermeeownee> Harry needs some connection to his family left - they can't all be killed
[14:59] <Islwyn13> when i sthat?
[14:59] <Islwyn13> the scribulus chat?
[14:59] <Aislinn> its at 7PM est
[14:59] <futureweasley> 7-9 EST tonight
[14:59] <Islwyn13> that's true, Hermee smile
[14:59] <Expelliarmas> lives
[14:59] <miss_danielle> have a great Scribbulus chat - i wont be there even though I SO want to be
[14:59] <Aislinn> we'll be talking about - gasp - Snape
[14:59] <Islwyn13> dinner time...oh, well, who needs to eat?
[14:59] <gryffindelle> I'll try to come
[14:59] <TrinarySystem> And that's all for me, folks!
[14:59] <futureweasley> thanks for coming everyone...what a great chat!!
[14:59] <Moriah> Looks like a good chat, but too late for me
[14:59] <fawkes28> it's been fun smile
[14:59] <SoonerGryffindor> thanks for coming everyone
[14:59] <Islwyn13> *waves!*
[14:59] <Moriah> Yeah, it's been awesome!!
[14:59] <Islwyn13> I LOVE CB!
[14:59] <SoonerGryffindor> great chat! hug
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[15:00] <futureweasley> me too...
[15:00] <arabella84> toodles
[15:00] <Aislinn> aww - we love you too!
[15:00] <hermeeownee> YEA
[15:00] <miss_danielle> thanks for a great chat as always guys smile
[15:00] <Moriah> Woot CB!
[15:00] <Moriah> And Woot RG!
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[15:00] <hermeeownee> Sooner - I need to PM you - but I don't know how.
[15:00] <Islwyn13> See you all later tonight, then!
[15:00] * futureweasley loves that Islwyn13 loves the CB
[15:00] <Aislinn> woot RG!
[15:00] <Islwyn13> I love that FW loves that I love CB smile
[15:00] <Aislinn> lol
[15:00] <futureweasley> I love the Study..so we are even
[15:00] <Islwyn13> gotta stop this now, I think
[15:00] <Moriah> hahaah
[15:00] <Islwyn13> :hug:
[15:00] <fawkes28> oh my goodness this woot thing needs to go
[15:00] <gryffindelle> g2g, see you later/tomorrow, i hope
[15:00] <gryffindelle> study?
[15:00] <Moriah> Go?
[15:00] <futureweasley> see you then gryffindelle
[15:00] <Aislinn> its an RG room, gryff
[15:00] <Moriah> I love woot!
[15:01] <gryffindelle> ok
[15:01] <futureweasley> my reading room is the Study
[15:01] <SoonerGryffindor> hermee, check the top of your screen
[15:01] <fawkes28> yes it's a weird word
[15:01] <Islwyn13> Mine too, Squee!
[15:01] <fawkes28> yay Study!
[15:01] <gryffindelle> ahh
[15:01] <futureweasley> woot!
[15:01] <Moriah> :chuckle:
[15:01] <fawkes28> hey what did i just say about that word?
[15:01] <Aislinn> :chuckle:
[15:01] <fawkes28> grrrrrr
[15:01] <fawkes28> smile
[15:01] <gryffindelle> i'm suite 13
[15:01] <futureweasley> it's leaky exclusive
[15:01] <futureweasley> ?
[15:01] <Islwyn13> what word?
[15:01] <futureweasley> Woot
[15:01] <Moriah> Ok, you guys rock! :hugs: Bye!!
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[15:01] <Islwyn13> LOL
[15:01] <Islwyn13> ah
[15:02] <Islwyn13> toodles!
[15:02] <futureweasley> bye Moriah
[15:02] <gryffindelle> ok, really g2g now
[15:02] <futureweasley> thanks for coming
[15:02] <gryffindelle> byebye
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[15:02] *** gryffindelle has quit [Bye]
[15:02] <fawkes28> ok bye smile
[15:02] *** fawkes28 has quit [Bye]
[15:02] <futureweasley> bye Fawkes
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