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Harry Potter discussion forum for movies, books, and more! - The Leaky Lounge _ The Corner Booth _ Post-Prince Predictions Chat Sunday, June 10, 2007
Posted by: Prongs Patronus Jun 10 2007, 10:44 PM
Today's chat Moderators were: http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=4256 http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=8883, and http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showuser=15301.
[14:07] <Firepixie> hi
[14:08] <ProngsPatronus> welcome, pixie
[14:08] <Nimthiriel> hey firepixie
[14:08] <lothlorien> Does anywone in the US know if cinemas have started selling tix for HP5 yet?
[14:08] <Poet> I think some have
[14:08] <Aislinn> I haven't checked, lothlorien
[14:08] <Nimthiriel> hmmm i dont know i havent heard anything about it
[14:09] <Firepixie> think you can preorder them at vue cinemas
[14:09] <Poet> AMC may have started early sales
[14:09] <lothlorien> I just wondered. It seems like four weeks in advance was the earliest for HP4.
[14:09] <Aislinn> Is everyone planning on seeing it that first night it comes out?
[14:09] <Firepixie> i am probably gonna wait a few days after it comes out and then go
[14:09] <ProngsPatronus> the first day
[14:09] <Nimthiriel> nah im going to wait til the week after
[14:09] <Nimthiriel> i dont like crowded movie theatres
[14:09] <ProngsPatronus> matinee--less expensive
[14:09] <RudiusHagrid> im probably going to wait for the DVD
[14:09] <Firepixie> whats the artwork for the new book like
[14:09] <Aislinn> I usually do matinees too, prongs
[14:09] <Firepixie> have not seen it yet
[14:10] <Spectre> I'm planning for the first day it's shown in Russia, July 19 smile
[14:10] <lothlorien> Midnight show party with my local Leaky Cauldron book club if I can manage it.
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[14:10] <ProngsPatronus> hey, NYB
[14:10] <Poet> I usually go to a midnight showing but this time will likely see it during the day on the 12th.
[14:10] <Spectre> hi NYB
[14:10] <Firepixie> hi nyb
[14:10] <RudiusHagrid> hi NYB
[14:10] <Nimthiriel> yeah...AMC is really good about early fri, sat, and sun day mornings get a really good deal on it
[14:10] <lothlorien> Hi, NYB
[14:10] <Aislinn> ooh, you have a local LC book club? That's nice
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[14:11] <Aislinn> hi Narya
[14:11] <Firepixie> so whats the theory here chaps
[14:11] <RudiusHagrid> hi Narya
[14:11] <Spectre> hi Narya
[14:11] <ProngsPatronus> hey, Narya!
[14:11] <Firepixie> my kids are adamant that harry is going to die and that snape is not a traitor
[14:11] <Aislinn> we're going to be discussing the HarryPotterSeven.com chapter on Voldemort, starting at quarter past the hour, Firepixie
[14:11] <Narya> Hi all
[14:11] <Firepixie> okies
[14:11] <Aislinn> we just give people a chance to arrive and settle in first smile
[14:12] <Aislinn> do you agree with your kids?
[14:12] <Firepixie> erm....that snape is not a traitor yes...
[14:12] <Firepixie> am undecided about harry dying tho
[14:12] <Nimthiriel> lol hehehe
[14:12] <RudiusHagrid> lol
[14:12] <Spectre> a bit of self-advertisement, if you don't mind... has anyone listened to my short music piece "Lightning-Struck Tower"? biggrin
[14:12] <Aislinn> nonononono
[14:12] <Firepixie> no
[14:13] <Aislinn> Harry is the Boy who LiveS
[14:13] <lothlorien> Yeah, our local library runs it. We have a huge library sponsored HP day at our local park, too. Last year they had guys on stilts with extra long robes walking around and all the little kids had to point their wands at them and say , Expecto Patronum to get them to leave. They rig up a squid on the lake and have a double decker bus set up like the Knight Bus for kids to play in. Its great!
[14:13] <Nimthiriel> i dont know...i think he may die sad
[14:13] <JaneMarple9> sounds like great fun!
[14:13] <Aislinn> wow, that sounds like lots of fun lothlorien
[14:13] <Poet> neat
[14:13] <RudiusHagrid> cool!!
[14:13] <Aislinn> spectre - where is your song, to be listened to?
[14:13] <Firepixie> that sounds great
[14:13] * RudiusHagrid is so jealus now
[14:14] <Firepixie> my middle son thinks hermione is going to die tho
[14:14] <Spectre> in Pensieve Parlor forum
[14:14] <Firepixie> do not know where he got that from tho
[14:14] <Poet> One big happy Weasley familiy....
[14:14] <Poet> I hope the Weasleys all live and have a few others who join their family
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[14:14] <Firepixie> hey mathia
[14:14] <lothlorien> The trio and Ginny will live I think. They may get wounded, but they'll all live. Not sure about any of the other characters go.
[14:15] <Aislinn> hi mathia
[14:15] <lothlorien> I worry about Molly.
[14:15] <mathia> hi!
[14:15] <ProngsPatronus> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon.
[14:16] <ProngsPatronus> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod.
[14:16] *** RudiusHagrid left #lounge []
[14:16] <ProngsPatronus> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules
[14:16] <ProngsPatronus> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation!
[14:16] <ProngsPatronus> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat!
[14:17] <Poet> Welcome to the Corner Booth discussion of the excellent chapter on He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, Lord Voldemort, written by Witherwings. Tonight we will discuss the various themes and hints brought up in this chapter on Harry's arch-nemesis.
[14:17] <Poet> First, we will examine a bit of Voldemort's past—our process of learning about the Dark Lord.
[14:17] <Poet> Hagrid, who first tells Harry about Voldemort, has great difficulty saying the name of the Dark Lord, calling him He-Who-Must-Not Be-Named. What ideas did you get about this character from that exchange?
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[14:17] <mathia> i thought hagrid must be pretty scared if he couldnt bring himself to say the name
[14:18] <Nimthiriel> Hey Love
[14:18] <Spectre> Quite formidable, maybe even somewhat supernatural. At least I got that impression when first read PS
[14:18] <Love4Fawkes> hey Nim!
[14:18] <mathia> which meant that voldermort was a terrible person to say the least
[14:18] <JaneMarple9> hagrid is scared of the name too
[14:18] <Nimthiriel> that he was very very feared from everyone
[14:18] <Poet> Yes, I got the impression that he was almost non-human - such was the supernatural quality of him
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[14:18] <JaneMarple9> dumbledore isn;t afraid of saying the name so Hagrid should really copy him though
[14:18] <lothlorien> He had a traumatic effect on everyone, even Hagrid, but Harry doesn't yet know if Hagrid is the only one afraid of him. For all Harry knows at this point, Hagrid's fears of the wizard are an isolated event.
[14:19] <Narya> I think Hagrid follows most of the wizarding world in being unable to say LV's name, such was the thrall of terror which LV had spread by that time
[14:19] <ProngsPatronus> almost an occult feeling, which was strange, considering we were reading about magical people
[14:19] <mathia> yeah i thoght it was really strange too
[14:19] <Spectre> And Russian version has LV's name translated as Volan-de-Mort - paralleled with Voland from the famous "Master and Margarita" novel, and Voland was literally the devil
[14:20] <mathia> i cant ever think of someone i was that afraid of
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[14:20] <Witherwings> I felt the name was almost a dark incantation itself
[14:20] <Poet> It also seemed strange that Hagrid couldn't say the name when supposedly the guy is dead and gone
[14:20] <Aislinn> hi chocolate
[14:20] <lothlorien> Hey, Chocolate!
[14:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey all!
[14:20] <mathia> yeah eaxactly
[14:20] <Love4Fawkes> Hagrid believed LV to still be alive
[14:21] <mathia> if he's dead whats there to be afraid of
[14:21] <Aislinn> yes, witherwings, as if it held its own magical power
[14:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> can't stay long - just moved into a new apartment and still need to unpack!! what's the Q?
[14:21] <ProngsPatronus> yes, WW--as if, by saying the name, one would conjure him up, somehow
[14:21] <Love4Fawkes> "just biding his time" I think Hagrid said about LV
[14:21] <Narya> Not many people could say the name, even when LV was supposedly dead; Hagrid wasn't alone in that
[14:21] <Firepixie> yup thats what he said
[14:21] <Poet> Right. that's how I felt too - as if by saying the name He'd hear and come .
[14:21] <Spectre> Euphemistic names were part of the culture since very early days...
[14:21] <Witherwings> Almost like Beetlejuice :P
[14:21] <JaneMarple9> yeah Hagrid knew Voldie was just biding his time
[14:21] <Firepixie> ha
[14:21] <mathia> i think that if the wizarding cmmunity could bring themselves to actully say his name, it might eliminate a little fear
[14:21] <Love4Fawkes> Gad to see you unpacked your computer chocolate smile
[14:21] <Love4Fawkes> *Glad
[14:21] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> haha first thing out
[14:22] <Poet> JK Rowling has described Voldemort as "a raging psychopath, devoid of the normal human responses to other people's suffering..." How does this change your perception of this character?
[14:22] <Witherwings> I think so too mathia, but that fear lets us know jsut how nasty a villain we're dealing with
[14:22] <Love4Fawkes> I think DD said something along those same lines mathia
[14:22] <lothlorien> Yeah, Mathia, it's like they helped create an aura of fear around him by being afraid to say the name.
[14:22] <Love4Fawkes> it just confirms what I already thought
[14:23] <Nimthiriel> Well thats what i really though he was
[14:23] <Nimthiriel> thought*
[14:23] <mathia> yeah like they made him the monster that he is
[14:23] <Poet> It almost made me wonder how he gets anything done. I imagined someone criminally insane.
[14:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that it suggests that he was inherently different from birth, and predisposed to make the choices that he made... not to say that he wasn't in complete control of his choices or that he has an excues
[14:23] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> excuse
[14:23] <mathia> perhaps giving him some sort of satisfaction
[14:23] <Narya> I don't think my perceptions were changed; just confirmed - anyone who murders almost for fun can be classed as a psychopath
[14:23] <Love4Fawkes> many people who are criminally insane are very well organized in their insanity (did that make sense?)
[14:23] <ProngsPatronus> method to their madness
[14:23] <mathia> aha
[14:24] <Spectre> JKR's description bring Voldemort down to earth, from a "half-deity" to human
[14:24] <Aislinn> yes, chocolate, I'd agree with that
[14:24] <Spectre> bringS
[14:24] <ProngsPatronus> it is as if his name is an invitation to that madness, too
[14:24] <mathia> yes prongs
[14:24] <mathia> i agree
[14:24] <Witherwings> Good point PP
[14:24] <Love4Fawkes> I think LV was born with the potential to be a psycopath, but his environment ensured that he became psycotic
[14:25] <mathia> anyone with the arrogance to call themselves lord - whatever clearly
[14:25] <mathia> well idk
[14:25] <lothlorien> No conscience...
[14:25] <mathia> i think his life somethimes parallels that of harry's
[14:25] <ProngsPatronus> that makes me shudder--no conscience
[14:25] <Narya> I don't think his environment ensured his psychosis, Love4Fawkes - he chose to react abnormally - no one made him act the way he did
[14:25] <mathia> and if harry can see that, it will help him defeat him
[14:25] <Aislinn> I don't think his environment had as much to do with it as his own tendencies
[14:26] <mathia> like hitting him where it hurts
[14:26] <ProngsPatronus> and his own fears
[14:26] <Love4Fawkes> he called himself a lord, and while I agree that's a little insane, people have actually reinforced the idea for him. Even more insane!
[14:26] <Poet> But it almost sounds like he doesn't have certain emotions to even draw upon
[14:26] <Aislinn> there were many others who lived in that environment that didn't turn into psychopaths
[14:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he has no attachments to anyone... that's what makes him most inhuman, and allows him to disassociate with people so dramatically
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[14:26] <Love4Fawkes> Genes can determine how we react to situations
[14:26] <mathia> yes chocolate
[14:26] <Aislinn> yes, it is a sort of attachment disorder
[14:26] <Aislinn> hi YWKW
[14:26] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> Hi You_wont_know_who!!!!
[14:27] <lothlorien> I sometimes work with kids who have behavior disorders, but the ones who really scare me are devoid of conscience. They feel no remorse, no regret, and truly have no sense that they did anything wrong. You really see them easily becoming criminals.
[14:27] <Witherwings> I often wonder, though, if his being half-'normal' Muggle could have helped counter the inbred-Slytherin-psychoses
[14:27] <mathia> and i to tend to lean towards the fact that he might be pre-disposed this way because what would lead him to be so isolated
[14:27] <Nimthiriel> yes i agree Aislinn
[14:27] <JaneMarple9> hi YWKW smile
[14:27] <You_wont_know_who> hello everyone
[14:27] <mathia> hey
[14:27] <lothlorien> Hi, YOU!
[14:27] <You_wont_know_who> hi Jane, Aislinn Witherwings
[14:27] <Love4Fawkes> I should clarify that I totally think LV made his own choices!!! I'm just saying that he probably was predisposed to be a psycopath
[14:27] <Witherwings> Hi You...!
[14:27] <Narya> I don't agree that anyone is predisposed to evil - it's a choice
[14:27] <You_wont_know_who> hi CHocolate my sweet
[14:27] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> agreed with Love
[14:28] <Aislinn> how would it have done that, Witherwings ?
[14:28] <JaneMarple9> ooo voldie always makes his own choices
[14:28] <Narya> And I don't agree that anyone is predisposed to be a psychopath either - again, to me, it's a choice based on reactions to the behaviour or actions of others
[14:28] <Love4Fawkes> i've seen that too in children lothlorien. scary isn't it?
[14:28] <mathia> but then we're missing something right
[14:28] <Witherwings> It's a choice but a choice that's easier for some to make because they are already on the right environmental path, so to speak.
[14:28] <You_wont_know_who> evil is a choice, if it wasn't it wouldn't be punishable
[14:28] <Firepixie> i think that LV realised from an early age that he was alone and finding out the truth about his parents confirmed that being a loner was the only way to be
[14:28] <mathia> ?
[14:28] <mathia> what event would lead him to be so evil
[14:28] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> predisposed to something still allows for choices and influences... he wasn't positively influenced by family or environment, and his environment was unsupervised so that he could make bad choices without being repremanded or caught
[14:28] <Aislinn> I think that the choices people make are in part based on their temperament and genetic makeup though, narya
[14:29] <mathia> true chocolate
[14:29] <You_wont_know_who> LV from an early age chose wrong paths and he could have chosen the right one
[14:29] <Narya> That's true Aislinn ... but too many theories make excuses for LV, and there are none, IMO
[14:29] <ProngsPatronus> I think that makes it harder to choose, but doesn't negate the power of choice
[14:29] <Firepixie> he was raised with no love and so did not see the need for it
[14:29] <Aislinn> oh, I agree -he is responsible for his own evil choices
[14:29] <Love4Fawkes> oh, i'm not trying to make excuses for LV. he's horrible
[14:29] <Poet> The more frequently you choose a certain path, the harder it is to choose a different path. I think he reinforced his own tendencies
[14:29] <mathia> well hary was raised with no love
[14:29] <lothlorien> Harry grew up feeling unloved and unlovable, too, but chose to reach for love easily when given the chance. When comparing the two wizards, it almost becomes a nature vs. nurture afgument.
[14:29] <mathia> harry*
[14:29] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't think being predisposed to it makes it an excuse... just because a person is predisposed to alcoholism doesn't mean they have an excuse for driving drunk
[14:29] <ProngsPatronus> I think one can have compassion without approval
[14:30] <You_wont_know_who> the watershed was when he killed his parents - definitely a choice
[14:30] <Aislinn> but I think that the instability that we saw in the Gaunt line did make him more susceptible to developing into the evil thing he has become
[14:30] <lothlorien> Good point, Chocolate.
[14:30] <Witherwings> There are no excuses! But even Harry felt pangs of sympathy for LV. He was completely unloved starting at birth.
[14:30] <Love4Fawkes> great analogy chocolate
[14:30] <mathia> oh yeah the good ol' nature vs nurture debate
[14:30] <Poet> I like that idea - more susceptible
[14:30] <mathia> lol
[14:30] <Poet> Witherwings speaks of Voldemort's "Achilles Heel", his inability to take into account the strength of Love. What does this imply about his character?
[14:30] <Aislinn> right mathia
[14:30] <Aislinn> he has no understanding of love at all
[14:31] <Aislinn> he feels nothing for other people, in terms of emotional connections
[14:31] <Poet> A villain usually has a weakness for which the hero has a strength wink
[14:31] <You_wont_know_who> he could have fought though and he could have found some help
[14:31] <Love4Fawkes> he underestimates the power of love
[14:31] <Narya> LV's inability to recognise love or to give it any credence shows an underdeveloped character
[14:31] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that he doesn't understand the implications of love... he might understand what people do because of love, but he sees it as weak, when it is actually strong
[14:31] <Nimthiriel> he does indeed have a weakness and that it is something that is not so hard for other people to know
[14:31] <lothlorien> Could all the inbreeding in the Slytherin/Gaunt lineage have anything to do with it.
[14:31] <mathia> exactly aislinn
[14:31] <Poet> Nice thought chocolate
[14:31] <You_wont_know_who> he is terribly alone in my opinion
[14:31] <JaneMarple9> he's devoid of love...doesn't know how it works....how to be loved and how to love
[14:31] <Aislinn> I think it contributed, lothlorien
[14:32] <You_wont_know_who> he fears other people and fears being dependent
[14:32] <Love4Fawkes> that's a good point YWKW. it is not only a weakness because he doesn't recognize it, but also because he doesn't have it.
[14:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> he was born out of false love... which i think may have something to do with it... with all the side effects of potions and magic, you'd think that someone born from a love potion would have a side effect
[14:32] <ProngsPatronus> I think that he is self-contained--he does not see the need for anyone but himself
[14:32] <Firepixie> but who has he ever had to be dependant on??
[14:32] <JaneMarple9> bella?
[14:32] <Love4Fawkes> i had never thought of that chocolate
[14:32] <Firepixie> harry was raised with family that hated him, but they were family nonetheless
[14:32] <lothlorien> How did Harry know how to love, when his circumstances growing up were so similar?
[14:32] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> harry couldn't depend on anyone at all, either, but he managed through it
[14:32] <ProngsPatronus> I disagree
[14:33] <ProngsPatronus> chocolate
[14:33] <Narya> Merope loved her baby, though - so born of false love does not hold true
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[14:33] <mathia> yeah choc brings up a good theory
[14:33] <ProngsPatronus> *chocolate
[14:33] <Love4Fawkes> he could have allowed himself to be dependant on peer or teachers just as Harry has to a certain extent
[14:33] <Poet> It also means that Voldemort can be very closed minded about certain things. He's not taken the power of Love (as magic) seriously, just like he's underestimated a child's ability to vanquish him
[14:33] <Aislinn> I think that Harry got an important foundation of love from his parents, for the first 15 months of life
[14:33] <ProngsPatronus> hey, janieb
[14:33] <Witherwings> I think it's important that Harry had love during that first crucial year of his life though.
[14:33] <ProngsPatronus> I do, too
[14:33] <Witherwings> Yeah, what Aislinn said
[14:33] <mathia> yeah
[14:33] <Poet> I totally agree Aislinn
[14:33] <Firepixie> me too
[14:33] <lothlorien> Merope's love for her baby was not strong enough to live through her own broken heart.
[14:34] <JaneMarple9> yes aislinn
[14:34] <Witherwings> That set a foundation for Harry to love
[14:34] <Aislinn> right, poet - he can't accurately judge the power of something when he has no understanding of that thing
[14:34] <Love4Fawkes> Aislinn has a good point. the most important bonding happens in the first year of life
[14:34] <mathia> cause those memories have to still be there
[14:34] <Spectre> Love is a power... and I doubt Voldemort could accept anyone have power over him
[14:34] <JaneMarple9> lily and james loved harry a lot
[14:34] <Poet> We've seen that his mother was a very kind and strong woman
[14:34] <You_wont_know_who> Merope loved her baby but her son was never cuddled by her and never heard about her ordeal from the first hand
[14:34] <ProngsPatronus> that's a good point, spectre
[14:34] <Witherwings> Right, Spectre - love means vulnerability
[14:34] <Poet> So Harry had that influence around him during that crucial early time in his life
[14:34] <mathia> good point ywkw
[14:34] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> yes, while Merope died, still clinging to her obession to Tom Riddle... naming her son after the man she was obsessed with, hoping nothing for her son other than that he would inheret his father's looks... that's a woman living for herself and for her obsession, not for her son
[14:34] <NYBookworm> I agree that was essentional and part of what helped, but not everyone of those in the orphanage who didn't get it grow up to be evil villians (enev in the muggle world)
[14:34] <Aislinn> right, YWKW - he did not experience the bonding that occurs, as she died within the hour of having him
[14:34] <Firepixie> i also think that growing in the dursleys helped because even tho he got no love he saw love, if you can call it that, by the way dudley was treated
[14:34] <ProngsPatronus> also, harry had happiness in that year
[14:34] <Love4Fawkes> how do we know Merope loved her son? She did die rather than live on to care for him.
[14:34] <Narya> Merope did what she could, with what she had, at the time - there are lots of mitigating factors here
[14:35] <ProngsPatronus> I think that is important, too
[14:35] <Narya> And she was so young, too - why are we so hard on her?
[14:35] <Aislinn> I think she did as much as she was capable of doing
[14:35] <Poet> true - she was only about 19
[14:35] <Witherwings> Even if Merope loved him, she neevr got a chance to display it
[14:35] <Aislinn> the poor thing was quite damaged by growing up in that house
[14:35] <Firepixie> i think she gave up
[14:35] <Aislinn> and coming from that lineage
[14:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> because she raped Tom Riddle, and she imprisoned him as her love slave
[14:35] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> emotional love slave, and she did sleep with him, we know
[14:35] <You_wont_know_who> true Narya
[14:35] <Narya> I feel such pity for Merope - and even when her son found out the truth, he didn't show any compassion towards her
[14:36] <Aislinn> none at all
[14:36] <Firepixie> he showed no compassion because she left him
[14:36] <lothlorien> I'm not sure Merope knew much about love either, and the only time she tried, the love was not returned except with the help of a potion.
[14:36] <Narya> I think that's a bit strong, chocolate - Riddle showed her no mercy
[14:36] <ProngsPatronus> she did what witches and wizards have done for centuries
[14:36] <Love4Fawkes> that is true, Aislinn. she also had many troubles and was obviously a litttle psycotic herself (obsessive)
[14:36] <mathia> merope was never loved either
[14:36] <Poet> I think by saying that Voldemort has an "Achiles Heel", witherwings may be implying that it is the very thing that can bring about his downfall smile
[14:36] <Witherwings> Yes, chocolate - she did a horrible thing but she was also an inbred abuse victim with no idea how to escape
[14:36] <mathia> so how would she know what love is
[14:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> well, so is Voldemort
[14:36] <mathia> exactly witherwings
[14:36] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't have much pity for her
[14:36] <ProngsPatronus> it is horrible from a Muggle POV
[14:36] <You_wont_know_who> lothlorien good point
[14:36] <Aislinn> and she did try to get her son to a place of safety, if not comfort
[14:37] <Spectre> Merope at least could feel the physical attraction... I wonder if Voldemort ever felt any
[14:37] <Narya> I have far more pity for Merope than I have for LV
[14:37] <Firepixie> but she still left him
[14:37] <Aislinn> Voldemort was not abused, chocolate
[14:37] <mathia> she wasnt exactly taught right and wrong the way normal ppl are
[14:37] <mathia> i mean
[14:37] <Narya> LV chose to abuse others and was never abused
[14:37] <mathia> look aty who her father and her brother
[14:37] <mathia> were
[14:37] <Love4Fawkes> Merope did not act as horribly as LV has, but she still made very poor choices that had terrible results
[14:37] <Poet> Another weakness mentioned in the chapter is Voldemort's fear of death. Why do you think he fears death?
[14:37] <You_wont_know_who> Love will bring LV's downfall because it's stronger than hatred and LV builds his power on hatred and fears
[14:37] <Narya> He chose his own path in the orphanage when he hanged a defenceless animal
[14:37] <Aislinn> he grew up in an orphanage - it may not have been incredibly loving, but there was no evidence of abuse
[14:37] <Aislinn> right narya
[14:38] <You_wont_know_who> Merope is to be pitied for sure, her life was miserable
[14:38] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i just don't like the fact that she took over a man's life and had sex with him and had a child without his consent, no matter HOW horrible he was to her, or how horrible her life was... if it had been a man who trapped a woman like that, I'm sure it'd be seen differently
[14:38] <Spectre> If one dies, one loses all the power...
[14:38] <Poet> I think he sees death as an enemy - one more thing to be conquered
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[14:38] <Love4Fawkes> i agree choclate
[14:38] <Narya> I disagree, chocolate - but that's for another time
[14:38] <Aislinn> I think that he felt incredibly abandoned by his mother, and blames death for that, and therefore fears this event more than any other
[14:38] <Witherwings> True, chocolate, but it's still hard not to pity her to an extent
[14:38] <Firepixie> he sees death as a weakness
[14:38] <JaneMarple9> yes merope is to be pitied
[14:38] <Narya> I think LV fears death because he sees it as a weakness
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[14:38] <mathia> hey
[14:38] <Aislinn> it was a very bad choice to make, chocolate, I agree
[14:39] <Love4Fawkes> lol, agreeing to disagree. so on to the current question.
[14:39] <You_wont_know_who> death is for LV an ultimate defeat
[14:39] <Spectre> hm... and if Voldemort fears death, he has good chances to end up as a ghost
[14:39] <lothlorien> For a person capable of great love, we know there is more life for us in death. For a person devoid of love, their is only...well..."de void", you know?
[14:39] <Firepixie> when he found out that he was a wizard he figured that it was his father as if it was his mother she would not have died
[14:39] <Love4Fawkes> Death is something that LV can't control and he wants to always be in control
[14:39] <Poet> We saw that at a young age Tom liked having power over others and over things. He could see that Death might be something he didn't have power over
[14:39] <Aislinn> yes, Love4Fawkes
[14:39] <You_wont_know_who> death is not an adventure for LV, it's the end of your rule over the living things
[14:39] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> death is something that every rich person, every poor person, every magical person experiences.... If he wants to be different, ultimately different, he would have to become immortal, because nobody else would be able to live forever
[14:40] <Narya> I think it's curious that LV realises within himself that he doesn't have any power over death, so he's trying to conquer it
[14:40] <ProngsPatronus> I think that he thought that if one were magical, one need not die
[14:40] <Firepixie> i think LV substitutes power for love
[14:40] <ProngsPatronus> and that false assumption has made its mark
[14:40] <Aislinn> it has, prongs
[14:40] <mathia> i agree with fire
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[14:40] <Witherwings> I think he lacks a sense of the continuum of life - he sees death as an end and can't see that there may be something beyond that. Death is a natural force,
[14:40] <You_wont_know_who> he won't end up as a ghost(LV) because his soul is split
[14:40] <ProngsPatronus> hi, mafalda
[14:40] <Love4Fawkes> i think that is a motivating factor for LV choclate, but I think his main reason to want to be immortal is out of fear
[14:40] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that's a good point, spectre... about the ghost... i wonder if he can die in a way that makes ghostness impossble
[14:40] <Aislinn> and it is so ironic, as he has actually now destroyed any chance of actual immortality, if you believe that the soul goes on in some fashion, on that next great adventure
[14:41] <MafaldaWeasley> hi there! what's the question?
[14:41] <ProngsPatronus> hi, KNeazley
[14:41] <Kneazly> Hi everyone
[14:41] <Firepixie> hi
[14:41] <You_wont_know_who> true Prongs, he has been mistaken about the power of magic
[14:41] <Poet> new question coming up smile
[14:41] <mathia> hi
[14:41] <lothlorien> Abused children feel so powerless that the cycle is often continued because when they grow up they try to recreate their childhood as the powerful one.
[14:41] <Poet> Voldemort has created Horcruxes to anchor himself in the physical world, the "wickedest of magical inventions." Why do you think Horcruxes are so wicked?
[14:41] <Witherwings> Right Aislinn - he has destroyed his eternal soul so his body could be eternal
[14:41] <Aislinn> yes, witherwings, exactly
[14:41] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> because they're unnatural, and rooted in an act of complete evil
[14:41] <Spectre> Horcrux-making involves cold-blooded killing...
[14:42] <You_wont_know_who> hi Mafalda
[14:42] <Narya> Horcruxes are evil because they are a reminder of the murders which were committed to make them
[14:42] <MafaldaWeasley> tx Poet
[14:42] <Love4Fawkes> you have to kill someone for starters. than you split your own soul, a very unnatural act.
[14:42] <JaneMarple9> you're right spectre
[14:42] <mathia> just the idea of killing for you own good gives me the chills
[14:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> okay guys!!! i gotta unpack
[14:42] <mathia> voldermort is ruthlesss
[14:42] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> tty'all later
[14:42] <Love4Fawkes> good luck chocolate
[14:42] <Aislinn> someone is making a deliberate choice to end someone else's life for their own selfish ends
[14:42] <mathia> bye choc
[14:42] <ProngsPatronus> aww--bye, chocolate
[14:42] <Aislinn> bye chocolate
[14:42] <MafaldaWeasley> hello YWKW...
[14:42] <Firepixie> LV had no control over his childhood
[14:42] <Witherwings> Willingly taking away the life force is probably the worst thing anyone can do - wizard or muggle
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[14:42] <Aislinn> that is an extremely evil thing to do
[14:42] <Firepixie> over his mother dying or his father leaving
[14:42] <ProngsPatronus> he denies the humanity of others by making a horcrux
[14:43] <MafaldaWeasley> I think Horcruxes are wicked because they are the result of an endless fear
[14:43] <Poet> When you murder you damage your soul, but it could always scab over and heal if you "repent" of your ways. No chance of redemption (making your soul whole) if you remove the torn part
[14:43] <Narya> Not only denies it PP - but scorns it
[14:43] <ProngsPatronus> yes
[14:43] <Love4Fawkes> oh good point poet!
[14:43] <Aislinn> it is a choice that is made, not in the heat of the moment, but with cold calculation
[14:43] <lothlorien> Wow, I like that, Poet.
[14:43] <Witherwings> Ooh good conept Poet
[14:43] <You_wont_know_who> horcruxes are made because you take the life of another person, usually an innocent person who deserved to live. They distort the nature of magic
[14:43] <Poet> It's an idea that Prongs and I have tossed around before
[14:43] <ProngsPatronus> I think that is why JKR said he was the only one beyond redemption
[14:43] <Aislinn> I agree, Prongs
[14:44] <You_wont_know_who> bye chocolate, so good to have you around
[14:44] <mathia> yeah prongs
[14:44] <Love4Fawkes> that makes sense prongs and poet. its a great theory
[14:44] <mathia> thts really smart
[14:44] <MafaldaWeasley> I think it's beyond redemption because the murder must be carefully prepared, like the sacrifice of an innocent for your own imortallity
[14:44] <ProngsPatronus> which tells us that DD did not have a horcrux, and neither did snape
[14:44] <Poet> So by making a horcrux you assure yourself of not being redeemed. You truely are in an evil state
[14:44] <Firepixie> u see meaness in kids all the time
[14:44] <mathia> never thought of it like that mmyself
[14:44] <You_wont_know_who> good idea Poet, I like it
[14:44] <mathia> yeah but kids can be mean
[14:45] <Firepixie> you can always tell the ones that are unchecked by their parents
[14:45] <Love4Fawkes> i could not imagine DD having a horcrux!
[14:45] <mathia> they usually grow out of it
[14:45] <Aislinn> I find it really repellant to think that DD would ever contemplate doing something that horrible
[14:45] <ProngsPatronus> me, too
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[14:45] <Firepixie> only if they are checked and pulled into line
[14:45] <ProngsPatronus> but it was a popular idea back in the day
[14:45] <janieb> yes Aislinn
[14:45] <Aislinn> hi miranda
[14:45] <mathia> ofcourse DD didnt have a horcrux
[14:45] <lothlorien> Hi, Miranda.
[14:45] <Poet> Plus of course you assure your own immortality at another's expense - take away their own chance to exist
[14:45] <MirandaV> hi all
[14:45] <mathia> he would never have the heart to murder an innocent
[14:45] <Aislinn> oh, janie, when did you sneak in? smile
[14:45] <Witherwings> No way would any good wizard do that - Slughorn was shocked that one of his students had even heard of them - they're comlpetely taboo
[14:45] <MafaldaWeasley> helo miranda
[14:45] <mathia> hi miranda
[14:45] <Firepixie> hi
[14:45] <ProngsPatronus> hey, miranda!
[14:46] <Kneazly> Hi Miranda
[14:46] <mathia> yeah
[14:46] <janieb> a bit back--too busy reading this awesome convo
[14:46] <Aislinn> right witherwings
[14:46] <mathia> i mean hogwarts doesnt even have a book on them
[14:46] <Firepixie> i do not think that LV knows how to stop
[14:46] <Witherwings> Right
[14:46] <lothlorien> As Hagrid said, "...as bad as a wizard can go..."
Posted by: Prongs Patronus Jun 10 2007, 11:07 PM
14:46] <Poet> Witherwings tells us "A flaw typical of many psychopaths, however, is the inability to learn from past mistakes despite their high intelligence." What do you think are other examples of this (besides trying to kill Harry)?
[14:46] <Aislinn> exactly lothlorien
[14:46] <MafaldaWeasley> because DD said so, but before they must have had
[14:46] <ProngsPatronus> that is an excellent point, fire
[14:46] <You_wont_know_who> hi Miranda
[14:47] <Aislinn> interesting question
[14:47] <You_wont_know_who> they were taboo in Hogwarts, I wonder if it was the same in other schools
[14:47] <lothlorien> He didn't stop at one horcrux, but split his soul many times.
[14:47] <Kneazly> He keeps underestimating Harry
[14:47] <mathia> good question poet
[14:47] <You_wont_know_who> it should be though
[14:47] <Love4Fawkes> he doesn't see that as a mistake lothlorien
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[14:47] <Aislinn> but that is a fatal flaw Love4Fawkes
[14:47] <MafaldaWeasley> The total concience of what he's doing and his believes that it's the right thing to do. He truly believes he's doing it because it's right and because it is the best for his society
[14:47] <Aislinn> because it is a huge mistake
[14:47] <Love4Fawkes> oh it sure is!
[14:47] <MirandaV> I think in general the fact that he underestimates Harry demonstrates this, no matter how many times Harry proves to him that he's not just lucky or surviviing by means of his "more talented friends"
[14:48] <Poet> In the past Voldemort has tried to defeat Harry himself. If he'd just swallow his pride and attack Harry with all the DE at once....
[14:48] <You_wont_know_who> I wonder who invented the first Horcrux
[14:48] <Narya> LV made the mistake of underestimating "ancient magic" too
[14:48] <You_wont_know_who> Salazar the Green?
[14:48] <Aislinn> good point, miranda
[14:48] <Spectre> Voldemort doesn't learn from his mistakes because he doesn't consider them mistakes...
[14:48] <Aislinn> and will likely do so again, naray
[14:48] <Aislinn> narya
[14:48] <Narya> I'm sure he will, Aislinn
[14:48] <Love4Fawkes> that's a good point Narya, he has doen that repeatedly
[14:48] <mathia> yeah spectre
[14:48] <mathia> i agree
[14:48] <MirandaV> I agree, he will definitely underestimate love again
[14:48] <Witherwings> The thing about not learningfrom past mistakes is that psychopaths have huge egos, so thaey can't admit they have made any mistakes. Therefore can't learn from them
[14:48] <janieb> good one narya
[14:49] <lothlorien> I think one of the biggest examples of this is that LV doesn't even recognize his mistakes as mistakes. He may blame others for what has gone wrong, but he takes no responsibility for his own actions.
[14:49] <Witherwings> Exactly Spectre!
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[14:49] <mathia> he's too into hi own self-idolization to realize that he too has flaws
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[14:49] <MafaldaWeasley> excalty Specre. because for him, he's doing what is right. He cannot realise it's wrong.
[14:49] <Poet> I think he'll also underestimage others sacrificing for Harry
[14:49] <lothlorien> He is a complete narcicist.
[14:49] <Narya> LV did admit briefly to a mistake in OotP, but as usual placed the blame on someone else
[14:49] <mathia> i think he's too impulsive
[14:49] <Aislinn> and since he believes what he is doing is the right approach, he will not change his approach
[14:49] <janieb> well put lothlorien--and no chance of that changing
[14:49] <Firepixie> i still think that the snake harry freed in PS is gonna play a part in taking LV down
[14:50] <Witherwings> LV might admit to small mistakes but not the big ones
[14:50] <Kneazly> I wonder if "trusting" his DEs, the giants, Dementors etc. will prove a mistake
[14:50] <MirandaV> Why change...he's already perfect, only others fail
[14:50] <Poet> Ha. Yes MirandaV ;)
[14:50] <You_wont_know_who> LV has a blind spot when it comes to any mistakes - look how many times he tried to kill Harry, failed, then tried again
[14:50] <Love4Fawkes> lol miranda
[14:50] <Aislinn> always to his own cost, YWKW
[14:50] <mathia> well kneazly
[14:50] <lothlorien> I keep thinking of Hitler.
[14:50] <mathia> the question is does he really trust??
[14:50] <MirandaV> He siriusly underestimates Harry, and that will be his downfall IMO
[14:51] <Firepixie> of course he does not trust
[14:51] <mathia> remember what DD said
[14:51] <Firepixie> he controls
[14:51] <Aislinn> he has lost his body, shaken the faith of his followers, had them thrown in jail, all because he doesn't learn
[14:51] <Love4Fawkes> no, he certainly does not trust
[14:51] <mathia> he has no friends or confidants
[14:51] <Poet> Now, let's turn to The Deathly Hallows and its myriad possibilites.
[14:51] <Poet> Voldemort's attempt on Harry's life left the boy scarred, but with a "window" into the mind of his enemy. How important do you think this window will be in Deathly Hallows?
[14:51] <Kneazly> He doesn't trust them, but he depends on them to do what he wants, will they fail him?
[14:51] <Spectre> Hitler and his inner circle... a good comparison
[14:51] <mathia> doesnt that also imply that he trusts no one
[14:51] <You_wont_know_who> LV will die
[14:51] <You_wont_know_who> for sure
[14:51] <Witherwings> I think he underestimates Harry but mostly what Harry represents - love, friendship, honesty . He sees himself as being able to easily conquer those ideals.
[14:51] <mathia> he uses fear and manipulation to keep things in his favor
[14:51] <MafaldaWeasley> I think it's one of the keys actually. The key to LV feelings...
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[14:51] <MirandaV> I'm not sure if the window will be open in DH, it seems to have been closed in HBP and I'm not sure it will open back up
[14:51] <Aislinn> he is right not to trust them kneazly, as they are loyal out of fear more than devotion, in most cases
[14:52] <Narya> I don't think the "window" will be any more important than it's been - for instance, I can't see Harry trying to possess LV
[14:52] <lothlorien> So far, the window has worked against Harry. Harry needs to change that.
[14:52] <Love4Fawkes> i agree Narya
[14:52] <You_wont_know_who> this window, I trully really hope that Harry will use it to his advantage
[14:52] <mathia> it will be VERY impotant
[14:52] <Aislinn> I think the window will be absolutely critical, but for Harry not for Voldemort
[14:52] <Firepixie> i do not think that the window will help harry at all
[14:52] <Aislinn> not for possession, narya
[14:52] <You_wont_know_who> he will find a way to read LV's thoughts
[14:52] <Love4Fawkes> i hope that Harry will listen to snape and close his mind
[14:52] <Narya> I think it's only important in the sense that LV thinks he can still sway Harry - and of course, that won't happen
[14:52] <Aislinn> connection is not possession
[14:52] <Firepixie> he cannot close his own mind
[14:52] <mathia> so long as harry learns how to tap into them without letting LV tap into his
[14:52] <Firepixie> however
[14:53] <You_wont_know_who> no, not for possessions
[14:53] <Aislinn> LV could not bear the love that he felt coursing through Harry
[14:53] <ProngsPatronus> e learned that SS had a gift for legilimency--maybe harry does, too
[14:53] <lothlorien> LV is the one who "closed" the window, Miranda, but I think Harry has to reopen it and learn to use it himself.
[14:53] <mathia> but harry will always have too much on his mind to close it
[14:53] <Firepixie> his hatred for LV is stronger now DD is gone
[14:53] <MirandaV> YOu think Harry needs to find away to use Legimency on LV? He's going to have to be very good, but I think he can do it
[14:53] <Poet> Voldemort tried to use the window in Book 5. I don't think it will be open most of Book 7, but likely sometime during the final battle
[14:53] <Aislinn> If he were to open that connection fully, what would it do to LV?
[14:53] <You_wont_know_who> Harry is unable to close his mind
[14:53] <mathia> remember JK's interview
[14:53] <janieb> I'm of two minds on this question (:D)
[14:53] <Narya> Of course it's not, Aislinn - but there wasn't any connection between them in HBP and I don't see that being a huge factor in DH until perhaps the end
[14:53] <Poet> ha
[14:53] <MafaldaWeasley> I wonder if with that window Harry can activate his blood protection that now runs on LV's veins and destroy him
[14:53] <JaneMarple9> snape didn't teach harry all that well smile
[14:53] <Aislinn> I think it will be key for Harry to learn how to open thata connection
[14:53] <Firepixie> harry did not learn that well
[14:53] <MirandaV> Well, it was Snape Jane, who does he teach well
[14:54] <lothlorien> I think Regulus Black's role in DH will be to refine Harry's skills in legilimency/occlumency.
[14:54] <Aislinn> He didn't want it in HBP, nor did LV, so we didn't see it at all
[14:54] <Love4Fawkes> i think we will see LV's and Harry's connection come into play throughtout DH, but I'm not sure we will see any more of the "window"
[14:54] <Aislinn> but I think that will chcange
[14:54] <Witherwings> Harry may not be able to close his mind but he's wised up enough not to believe any of his visions regarding L:V
[14:54] <You_wont_know_who> I agree Aislinn
[14:54] <Aislinn> right witherwings
[14:54] <MirandaV> Good point Witherwings
[14:54] <Narya> That's it, Witherwings
[14:54] <Poet> Yes, just like with the battle in Book 4 - it was a battle with wands, but more so it was a battle of Voldemort's will against Harry's. I can see that happening again in Book 7 but with the window connection
[14:54] <mathia> yeah witherwings thats true
[14:55] <MirandaV> That would be interesting Poet
[14:55] <Aislinn> it was Harry's will that won the day in the graveyard, Poet, I agree
[14:55] <MirandaV> It will be Harry's will that wins again
[14:55] <Aislinn> and I think that his will and character will carry the day in DH
[14:55] <MirandaV> Yes, Aislinn
[14:55] <Aislinn> snap!
[14:55] <You_wont_know_who> true Witherwings
[14:55] <Witherwings> Me too Aislinn
[14:55] <janieb> Interesting parallels you guys
[14:55] <mathia> i think harry's will is much more powerful that LV
[14:55] <lothlorien> Yes, Aislinn, but again we saw Harry get support in his lonely moment, which helped him win the day.
[14:55] <MirandaV> *whispers* hi janie, thanks for your messages in RG
[14:55] <Poet> In many ways, Voldemort has created his true opposite in Harry. What traits does Harry have in common with Voldemort, and how may they help him in Book Seven?
[14:55] <mathia> because he has lost SO MUCH MORE
[14:56] <ProngsPatronus> love makes harry's will stronger than LV's--I wonder if he understands that
[14:56] <Aislinn> yes, lothlorien, his connections with others is very important
[14:56] <mathia> well both lost their parents
[14:56] <mathia> for starters
[14:56] <janieb> *pssst--Good to see you, MV!"
[14:56] <mathia> both felt unloved as children
[14:56] <MirandaV> both were abused
[14:56] <MafaldaWeasley> both are proud, both are stubborn hahaha and both are very intelligent
[14:56] <Narya> I don't see LV having "created" an opposite in Harry - Harry is his own man - but they're certainly an interesting antithesis
[14:56] <Firepixie> LV was not abused
[14:56] <Spectre> Harry and Voldemort are leaders
[14:56] <You_wont_know_who> Parsletongue?
[14:57] <Witherwings> I think the Parselmouth LV gave Harry will come in handy again, possible with Nagini
[14:57] <Aislinn> who understands it, prongs - Harry?
[14:57] <ProngsPatronus> either of them
[14:57] <You_wont_know_who> disregard for the rules perhaps
[14:57] <Love4Fawkes> i little compasion from Harry might be just enough to kill LV... lol
[14:57] <mathia> well i disagreenarya
[14:57] <Narya> The one thing Harry seems to have in common with LV is his stubbornness
[14:57] <Aislinn> I don't think he does yet, but I think that will be an important revelation for him.
[14:57] <MirandaV> Well, I'm sure his childhood wasn't sunshine and roses Fire
[14:57] <lothlorien> Many of the similarities are a result of Harry being marked/chosen by LV and the transfer of powers that accidentally took place.
[14:57] <Aislinn> LV will never understand it, as he is incapable of gauging the strength
[14:57] <MirandaV> Harry's was worse I'm sure
[14:57] <Narya> Harry has nothing else in common with LV though - they're polar opposites
[14:57] <mathia> i believe that in killing his parents and constantly trying to do him in voldermort is in fact creatin his own opponent
[14:57] <Witherwings> Oh I think they have a lot in common
[14:57] <mathia> because it makes harry despise him even more
[14:57] <You_wont_know_who> Love4 fawkes I loved your suggestion
[14:58] <Firepixie> i do not think it was either, but i do not think he dealt with what harry did
[14:58] <mathia> making his will to defeat him even greater
[14:58] <Spectre> Brother wands smile
[14:58] <MirandaV> Oh yes...I called Harry the Light Lord once, and what I meant is that he is the complete opposites
[14:58] <Narya> I don't think they have anything in common, in essentials
[14:58] <Poet> They both wanted info from Slughorn. Harry recognized that like Voldemort he was good at getting info out of people and knowing things that only the staff was privy to
[14:58] <Aislinn> certainly not in character
[14:58] <Firepixie> and i think that if he had been bullied he may have a different view
[14:58] <Narya> Harry is a living, breathing man, LV is an empty shell
[14:58] <Witherwings> But Tom Riddle, pre-Horcrux, has much in common with Harry
[14:58] <Aislinn> Harry makes true and lasting connections with others, LV uses them
[14:58] <Firepixie> harry knows what someone being mean to him feels like
[14:59] <mathia> 'yeah poet
[14:59] <JaneMarple9> totally agree nayra
[14:59] <Love4Fawkes> they are polar opposites, no doubt Narya, but they do have some traits in common
[14:59] <MirandaV> Maybe Fire, but he was a bully himself so....he's the classic bully run amoke
[14:59] <Firepixie> LV doesn't
[14:59] <MirandaV> If only someone would have stood up to him long ago
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[14:59] <ProngsPatronus> he does, Ww, on paper
[14:59] <lothlorien> Both are using their own choices to determine their fate and who they are, but to vastly different outcomes.
[14:59] <mathia> i think that if harry realizes their similarities it would make it easier to defeathim
[14:59] <You_wont_know_who> in essencials they are divided but still
[14:59] <Firepixie> yup
[14:59] <Firepixie> classic
[14:59] <You_wont_know_who> Harry would make a great Slytherin
[14:59] <You_wont_know_who> :P
[14:59] <Narya> Riddle had the black hair and the shared status of orphan. Both are half-bloods. Character traits - I see no shared traits
[14:59] <MirandaV> He's a better Gryffindor
[14:59] <Narya> And Harry is no Slytherin
[14:59] <MirandaV> lol
[14:59] <Aislinn> the fact that they grow up in grim circumstances, without their parents, is the biggest similarity from early childhood
[15:00] <MirandaV> That's true Aislinn
[15:00] <Firepixie> yup
[15:00] <Witherwings> Harry understands the desperation TR felt at having ot return to the orphanage if Hogwarts were closed, yet he would never do what TR did. But there's sttill a connection there.
[15:00] <Spectre> hm... any death that Harry encounters adds something to his soul... while Voldemort uses death to tear a part of soul from himself
[15:00] <You_wont_know_who> Harry must understand his enemy
[15:00] <ProngsPatronus> they both ahve a thirst to prove themselves
[15:00] <JaneMarple9> agreed miranda...although harry would probably be great in any House he went in
[15:00] <Poet> I can see them using parseltongue to battle for control of Nagini
[15:00] <mathia> yes aislinn
[15:00] <Aislinn> the fact that neither knew they were a wizard during that time was similar too
[15:00] <Firepixie> but if you remember when dd went to see tom at the orpanage
[15:00] <Witherwings> Harry was almost put in Slytherin though
[15:00] <MirandaV> I agree Witherwings
[15:00] <mathia> and i dont think that that similarity should be taken lightly
[15:00] <Aislinn> but the contrast between how they dealt with that was so strikingly different
[15:00] <Firepixie> even the adults were kinda afraid of him
[15:00] <MirandaV> It's our choices.....don't forget
[15:00] <mathia> i think its very important
[15:01] <Firepixie> yup it is our choices
[15:01] <Poet> How do you interpret the phrase "neither can live while the other survives..." ?
[15:01] <Firepixie> and LV got away with everything that he ever done that was bad
[15:01] <mathia> well neither can be happy until the other one is dead
[15:01] <Love4Fawkes> i've got to go for now. i'll be back.
[15:01] <Narya> For me it means one must die
[15:01] <Firepixie> so what was to stop that progressing
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[15:01] <lothlorien> I think the sorting hat saw similarities at first, but had to respect Harry's choice.
[15:01] <ProngsPatronus> bye, love4fawkes
[15:01] <MirandaV> That's right Aislinn, the fact that they have similar backgrounds is really important because of the fact that they turned out sooo differently...it illustrates that it IS our choices
[15:01] <Aislinn> I think that Harry has not been able to live fully, as he always has to have part of his mind on LV and what he is doing
[15:01] <You_wont_know_who> LV marked Harry because in part he saw himself in him
[15:02] <Aislinn> and Harry being alive has thwarted LV from freely moving ahead with his own life plans
[15:02] <ProngsPatronus> and feared that similarity
[15:02] <Aislinn> yes, MirandaV , exactly
[15:02] <Poet> Right now the two of them are connected - sort of like conjoined twins that are struggling to be free of the other
[15:02] <MirandaV> I think one has to die, I think it has to be LV, and Harry has never been able to truly live with LV hunting him like a mad dog all fo the time
[15:02] <janieb> The prophecy makes my brain fuzzy
[15:02] <lothlorien> It foreshadows that one of them must die.
[15:02] <Witherwings> LOL Janieb
[15:02] <lothlorien> lol, Janieb
[15:02] <You_wont_know_who> it means that one of them has to die
[15:02] <mathia> i think the prophesy is very straight forward
[15:03] <ProngsPatronus> I think it also signifies that one will live
[15:03] <MirandaV> lol janieb, it can give you a headache
[15:03] <Aislinn> i think living in this reference, means fully living one's life, as opposed to merely surviving
[15:03] <mathia> its "carefully worded" but it makes perfect sense
[15:03] <MirandaV> I agree Aislinn
[15:03] <ProngsPatronus> and it is that hope that can sustain us
[15:03] <Aislinn> neither can live/thrive right now
[15:03] <Witherwings> They're almost trapped in a yin-yang seesaw of sorts - something has to give
[15:03] <Poet> Both are holding the other one back from reaching their goals. They are choking each other right now.
[15:03] <Aislinn> yes
[15:03] <janieb> To vanquish can mean to overcome in a way besies kill
[15:03] <You_wont_know_who> very good remark Miranda
[15:03] <MirandaV> They cannot grow beyond this personal struggle for power/survival that is going on
[15:04] <Firepixie> does anyone know if there is a spell to rob someone of their powers???
[15:04] <ProngsPatronus> it also says that there is more to life than surviving
[15:04] <MirandaV> I still think LV has to disappear from the mortal plane for Harry to truly live
[15:04] <Poet> yes, prongs
[15:04] <lothlorien> Live in this case means have any kind of life not focused on the other. Since LV really has no other life outside of this connection, he has to go, in my opinion. Good riddance.
[15:04] <MafaldaWeasley> I think it means that they are permante in touch throught theirs brains, so that the are one most of the time, but divedd in a way they cannot live
[15:04] <mathia> like binding them you mean FP?
[15:04] <Witherwings> Never thought of that Firepixie
[15:04] <janieb> Interesting Aislinn, could LV be brought back to life beyond surving by compassion
[15:04] <Firepixie> yup
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[15:04] <mathia> umm idk
[15:04] <mathia> maybe
[15:04] <Firepixie> like binding his powers
[15:05] <mathia> but wouldnt DD have tried it already?
[15:05] <Poet> In the second of Trelawney's predictions she foretells that, "The Dark Lord will rise again with his servant's aid, greater and more terrible than ever he was." Just how terrible do you think it is going to get?
[15:05] <Aislinn> maybe that is what he tried at the ministry, mathia
[15:05] <MirandaV> I still think he would go after Harry, powers or no
[15:05] <Aislinn> he didn't try to kill LV there
[15:05] <lothlorien> Like the devil, Poet.
[15:05] <mathia> very terrible
[15:05] <mathia> lol
[15:05] <You_wont_know_who> it is going to get ugly and desperate for both sides
[15:05] <JaneMarple9> as terrible as it can get before Harry defeats Voldie smile
[15:05] <ProngsPatronus> I think we will experience loved characters dying
[15:05] <MirandaV> I think terrible may be an understatement
[15:05] <mathia> omg yes aislinn
[15:05] <mathia> maybe
[15:05] <mathia> !!!!
[15:06] <Poet> Jo said he gets a leg up in this next book *shivers*
[15:06] <Aislinn> I am very fearful of how terrible it is going to get
[15:06] <Narya> "Greater and more terrible than ever before" - in Bloomsbury - is a piece of very prescient foreshadowing
[15:06] <Firepixie> i cannot see how all the horcruxes can be destroyed
[15:06] <Spectre> He's really more terrible - he even attacks Muggles now...
[15:06] <You_wont_know_who> a lot of blood and deaths will occur for sure
[15:06] <MirandaV> I confess myself...nervous
[15:06] <Firepixie> but for LV to live forever with no magicial powers
[15:06] <Aislinn> lol, MirandaV
[15:06] <JaneMarple9> yeah voldie is going to be central in book 7
[15:06] <Firepixie> like a squibb
[15:06] <Spectre> He takes on the whole humanity, rather than the wizarding world...
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[15:06] <You_wont_know_who> I confess myself impatient
[15:06] <mathia> i leads me to believe tht snape will aid him in beciming even more evil
[15:06] <Witherwings> I think things are gonna get ugly!
[15:06] <mathia> if thats even possible
[15:07] <MirandaV> that too YWKW
[15:07] <MirandaV> :D
[15:07] <Firepixie> would that not be worse than death
[15:07] <lothlorien> Harry may face great personal and mortal loss to see LV gone. It could be downright painful to read, but I imagine we'll manage somehow.
[15:07] <mathia> me too ywkw
[15:07] <ProngsPatronus> I think it also speaks to the danger that the WW will become known to Muggles
[15:07] <You_wont_know_who> for LV one word is too little for sure biggrin
[15:07] <Aislinn> I'm so scared to see who else we lose, through this last portion of the war
[15:07] <Spectre> one worLd? smile
[15:07] <ProngsPatronus> killing is hard to hide, and LV doesn't want to hide it
[15:07] <lothlorien> Yes, Prongs, true.
[15:07] <MirandaV> I don't even want to think about whose going to die...it makes me feel all yucky inside
[15:07] <lothlorien> Me, too, Aislinn.
[15:08] <MirandaV> oops who's
[15:08] <You_wont_know_who> one world , sure sorry
[15:08] <Narya> The stakes are now very high - and LV has shown that no one stands in his way, not even little children
[15:08] <Spectre> Anyone can die at that point...
[15:08] <mathia> yeah i have grown quite fond of the characters and i will be sad to see them go
[15:08] <Poet> For the conflict between Harry and Voldemort to end, things are going to have to come to a head instead of them dancing around each other, so things are going to get worse before better
[15:08] <Aislinn> we're going to need all of Cho's industrial strength tissues for DH, I'm afraid
[15:08] <MirandaV> Definitely Poet
[15:08] <Firepixie> but they have already faced off
[15:08] <mathia> i hope its no-one on harry's side but i forsee that its inevitable
[15:08] <Firepixie> and spell for spell LV is more powerful
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[15:08] <Witherwings> Oh yes, they have to get worse before better Unfortunately
[15:08] <You_wont_know_who> lol Aislinn
[15:08] <Firepixie> look at snape at the end of HBP
[15:08] <You_wont_know_who> the trio will live though
[15:09] <MirandaV> And then some Aislinn
[15:09] <Poet> Harry's always run or Voldemort's always fled - to fight another day. Both are tired of running I think
[15:09] <mathia> hahaha good one aislinn
[15:09] <ProngsPatronus> it will be like cattle at an abbatoir
[15:09] <mathia> !!
[15:09] <Witherwings> LOL PP!
[15:09] <MirandaV> geez Prongs
[15:09] <MirandaV> biggrin
[15:09] <Poet> We know that Voldemort has been busy recruiting creatures and humans to his cause. What witches and wizards do you think are likely to join him? Why?
[15:09] <Witherwings> Don't say that!
[15:09] <Narya> Gruesome imagery, PP
[15:09] <You_wont_know_who> Prongs you are incredible
[15:09] <Aislinn> some of the graduating Slytherins
[15:09] <ProngsPatronus> but true--LV has always treated others as his food
[15:09] <mathia> the weak
[15:10] <Aislinn> there may be members of the Ministry who are looking for power who will turn to him
[15:10] <MirandaV> the weak searching for power for sure
[15:10] <Spectre> Toad biggrin
[15:10] <lothlorien> Those who have never found acceptance in the mainstream ww and those with something to gain.
[15:10] <Narya> I think whoever has been sufficiently swayed by LV's arguments will join him
[15:10] <Witherwings> I can't imagine anyone joining him, even Percy
[15:10] <Aislinn> yeah, the Toad seems ripe for it
[15:10] <You_wont_know_who> plenty of fearful and undecided will join him for sure
[15:10] <MirandaV> *snort* I hope she stuns herself
[15:10] <Poet> Those that are afraid that voldemort is going to win - those that want to merely survive at any cost
[15:10] <mathia> those who are too afraid to suffer his wrath and have no strong morals will inevitable decide that his side is safer
[15:10] <You_wont_know_who> toads and slugs maybe
[15:10] <lothlorien> lol, Miranda.
[15:10] <Spectre> Fudge... *eek*
[15:10] <MirandaV> A bunch of little Peter's and Malfoy's that's who
[15:10] <Firepixie> do not think slughorn will
[15:11] <MirandaV> No Slughorn won't
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[15:11] <Narya> I can't see Umbridge joining LV, nasty and warped as she is; nor do I see Slughorn joining him. I think Slughorn is one of the better Slytherins
[15:11] <ProngsPatronus> I am thinking there will be serious inroads at the MoM
[15:11] <Aislinn> yes, mathia, those are the ones that will end up on his side
[15:11] <Firepixie> i also think that neville is gonna play an important part
[15:11] <mathia> no not slughorn
[15:11] <Kneazly> I don't think Umbridge will either
[15:11] <Witherwings> I can see someone like Slughorn helping though, if he thought it was the only way to save his skin
[15:11] <mathia> or umbridge either
[15:11] <Aislinn> I'm not sure we've clearly seen more of those, aside from Wormtail
[15:11] <ProngsPatronus> hey, delafayette
[15:11] <mathia> haha can you imgine filch
[15:11] <delafayette> hello
[15:12] <MirandaV> maybe Witherwings, but I think he has something of a connection with Harry now, so I don't think he will
[15:12] <Aislinn> hi delafayette
[15:12] <Poet> Slughorn has already shown that he's wants the murder of Lily Evans to be removed
[15:12] <MirandaV> hi delafayette
[15:12] <janieb> keen insight re. the MoM, Prongs
[15:12] <Poet> *murderer
[15:12] <mathia> yeah witherwings is cool
[15:12] <lothlorien> Some will join out of fear. If Voldemort wins, they feel they must be on his side, and they can't imagine Harry winning. But those who join Harry will join because they love him and because they want to and because they want to protect their way of life.
[15:12] <You_wont_know_who> Slughorn will be scared and there is no Dd to protect him
[15:12] <Spectre> Slughorn also is apparently shaken by Dumbledore's death...
[15:12] <Aislinn> yes, lothlorien, exactly
[15:12] <Witherwings> I don't think Slug volunarily ever would join, but what about if he were threatned with death? Woudl he be strong enough to die for the cause?
[15:12] <Poet> Voldemort loved Hogwarts more than any other place. The author hints that he may try to take over the school. What will happen to the non-Slytherins at Hogwarts, should he succeed? Will any escape?
[15:12] <mathia> well maybe this time it wiil be different
[15:12] <Narya> Slughorn was shaken, but still led his House at DD's funeral - so he's not going to join LV's side now
[15:12] <MirandaV> Yes, loth, which is what will make them stronger
[15:13] <Aislinn> I don't think he would be, witherwings
[15:13] <Aislinn> He does not seem to be a strong man
[15:13] <mathia> if ppl think that harry is the chosen one they will have faith that he will be defeated
[15:13] <MirandaV> GP Witherwings, I'd hope so, but I have doubts
[15:13] <Narya> I think LV will try to take the schoo, but I don't think he'll succeed
[15:13] <Poet> I think he'll try , but I don't think Hogwarts will fall, at least not for very long
[15:13] <Spectre> All Houses except Slytherin will be probably... um... disbanded
[15:13] <Aislinn> I think that the students and the elves will rise up to defend the school
[15:13] <mathia> well i thibk there is more to hogwarts than meets the eye
[15:13] <MirandaV> Goodness, I hope he doesn't succeed, I think this is where Ginny and the new and beafed up DA will come into play
[15:13] <Aislinn> the DA will take the lead in this
[15:13] <delafayette> maybe thats how all houses get toghter
[15:13] <Poet> he might get into the castle, but don't think he'll get to take over
[15:14] <Firepixie> aislinn i agree
[15:14] <mathia> i think ancients magic would not allow LV to take over
[15:14] <delafayette> disband the houses
[15:14] <Spectre> how would the portraits react to Voldemort though
[15:14] <Aislinn> right - I think they will all be at risk, but I don't think he will succeed
[15:14] <MirandaV> I think he and his DEs will get kicked to the curb if they try
[15:14] <Firepixie> think the elves magic is underestimated
[15:14] <ProngsPatronus> ell, I think the headmaster's room will deny him, for one
[15:14] <You_wont_know_who> good question, I think that it would be a carnage if he succeeded
[15:14] <lothlorien> This is why I hope the school will close before the children can be put in danger. McGonagal is clever. She may surprise us with a very DD-like plan.
[15:14] <Aislinn> I agree, Firepixie
[15:14] <Narya> Hogwarts is stronger from within than LV gives it credit for. The DA does worry me slightly since they didn't respond to the call in HBP. Only the faithful did
[15:14] <MirandaV> Definitely PP
[15:14] <janieb> I think Slughorn's genuine affection makes different thatn Pettigrew
[15:14] <Poet> Yes - all those ghosts and elves and paintings and trick steps.....
[15:14] <MirandaV> Remember what they did to Umbridge, just think if it was LV
[15:14] <Kneazly> Maybe even "ancient magic" again will protect it
[15:14] <Aislinn> I don't think the shool will close, lothlorien
[15:14] <Witherwings> Yes FP! The elves will play a role
[15:14] <lothlorien> OOOH! Don't forget Peeves!
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[15:15] <ProngsPatronus> hey, cbm
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[15:15] <Aislinn> that may change, Narya, now that it has been brought to their doorstep
[15:15] <Firepixie> harry has an army
[15:15] <mathia> be back later guys
[15:15] <delafayette> is the acient magic a ,,,,,,, dragon?
[15:15] <mathia> great discussion though
[15:15] <MirandaV> bye mathia
[15:15] <Aislinn> I think many did not see it as quite real, prior to that
[15:15] <Spectre> Peeves against Voldemort... THAT's a duel I'd like to watch smile
[15:15] <Narya> It might, Aislinn
[15:15] <mathia> bye smile
[15:15] <Firepixie> he just does not realise it yet
[15:15] <Aislinn> hey cbm
[15:15] <ProngsPatronus> aww--bye, mathia
[15:15] <You_wont_know_who> Peeves?
[15:15] <Firepixie> bye
[15:15] <Aislinn> bye mathia
[15:15] <Kneazly> Bye mathia
[15:15] <MirandaV> I think the DA will return better and stronger myself
[15:15] <Narya> Let's put it this way - it needs to
[15:15] <Firepixie> bye mathia
[15:15] <Aislinn> I think so too, MirandaV
[15:16] <cbm> hi
[15:16] <Poet> Hogwarts also houses the Chamber of Secrets. The name suggests that more than one secret was hidden there. What other secrets do you think might be hidden in Slytherin's inner sanctum? How would these be used?
[15:16] <You_wont_know_who> Peeves doesn't count I'm afraid
[15:16] <MirandaV> hi cbm
[15:16] <You_wont_know_who> bye
[15:16] <lothlorien> A horcrux, maybe?
[15:16] <MirandaV> Well, there kind of already was more than one secret there
[15:16] <Aislinn> Slytherin may have hidden something valuable there
[15:16] <cbm> I think a horcrux is in the area where the snae came out
[15:16] <Spectre> A pensieve?
[15:16] <Aislinn> in addition to the Basilisk
[15:16] <MirandaV> Basilisk, horcrux, creepy spirit Tom
[15:16] <Poet> That giant statue of Slytherin reminds me of something out of an Egyptian tomb, in which case something is likely buried at its feet
[15:17] <janieb> Great discussion all--it's soooo hard to keep up with all the great input! I'll be thinking about you as I listen to OotP in the car. Take care!
[15:17] <Aislinn> yes, cbm, that's possible
[15:17] <Witherwings> Maybe so, Poet
[15:17] <MirandaV> Oooh, good one Poet
[15:17] <Aislinn> bye janieb
[15:17] <ProngsPatronus> bye, janieb
[15:17] <Poet> cheers janieb
[15:17] <MirandaV> bye janieb
[15:17] <Narya> I think the Chamber houses an entrance to the Otherworld which Harry might have to use
[15:17] <Firepixie> bye janieb
[15:17] <Aislinn> ooh, that is an interesting thought poet
[15:17] <ProngsPatronus> or, it may lead to his tomb
[15:17] <Poet> Maybe a book - a history of Slytherin himself
[15:17] <Spectre> Otherworld - behind the veil, that one?
[15:17] <Aislinn> another means beyond the veil, narya?
[15:17] <lothlorien> Good thought, Janieb.
[15:17] <Firepixie> i think you are right narya
[15:17] <Witherwings> If Salazar built it I doubt it simply houses a serpent and that's all
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[15:17] <Narya> Could be - just musing out loud
[15:18] <MirandaV> I agree Witherwings
[15:18] <Aislinn> right, witherwings - it is the Chamber of Secrets - plural - after all
[15:18] <ProngsPatronus> that passage could lead to SS's tomb--where the snake would guard
[15:18] <MirandaV> There are probably several secrets
[15:18] <Poet> Or maybe a book of secret magic, with spells that would let Harry cross the veil
[15:18] <MirandaV> and return from there
[15:18] <Firepixie> poet i was just writing that
[15:18] <Firepixie> ha
[15:18] <Kneazly> Ooh, trusting another book?
[15:18] <Narya> Built in mediaeval times, so bound to be plenty of entrances and exits - they're a huge advantage
[15:18] <lothlorien> Dark, secret magic, Poet.
[15:18] <Poet> Maybe spells one can only say if they speak parseltongue
[15:18] <Spectre> Or something about Horcruxes... if Salazar was actually the one who invented them
[15:19] <You_wont_know_who> that's why I asked who had invented the Horcruxes, maybe this knowledge is burried in the chamber
[15:19] <MirandaV> I like that idea Poet
[15:19] <Aislinn> that's a good point, kneazly - would harry trust another book now?
[15:19] <Firepixie> i think that the books that have nothing in them in the library may have something to do with LV's downfall aswell
[15:19] <lothlorien> Maybe Fred and George can come back and help Harry flush out all the secret entrances? That could be fun.
[15:19] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps there is a basilisk egg in the chamber
[15:19] <Narya> That's an interesting one, PP
[15:19] <Narya> fossilised, or still alive?
[15:20] <Poet> Harry's blood protection ends when he is seventeen. Will Voldemort attack him at that time? Where do you think the attack will happen?
[15:20] <Spectre> if there's a basilisk egg, there should be more than one basilisk in CoS smile
[15:20] <ProngsPatronus> still alive
[15:20] <delafayette> thern you would need a mom and pop balisk
[15:20] <Firepixie> if dd's painting pointed him towards one then yes he would
[15:20] <Narya> Thought you might say that
[15:20] <Witherwings> Interesting because it's not as if Harry (or anyone else) has gone back to the Chamber to check it out in 4 years
[15:20] <Aislinn> I think that Privet Drive is going to come under attack
[15:20] <lothlorien> Beyond the veil if the cover art is any clue.
[15:20] <cbm> I though a basilisk was a normal egg, it was just how it was hatched
[15:20] <JaneMarple9> yeah good point
[15:20] <Firepixie> have not seen the cover art yet
[15:21] <Kneazly> yes cbm
[15:21] <Aislinn> and that Harry will have to rescue his family
[15:21] <JaneMarple9> and it is chamber of SecretSSSSS not Secret
[15:21] <delafayette> chicken eggs aren't fertile with out a rooster
[15:21] <Kneazly> something about being hatched by a rooster
[15:21] <MirandaV> I think the Dursley's will find themselves in the position of being protected by Harry, and having to be, dare I say it, grateful....oh, I can't wait for it, what a comuppance
[15:21] <Narya> I think LV will definitely try to attack Privet Drive
[15:21] <ProngsPatronus> yes, I think that the Dursleys may wind up in Grimmauld Place
[15:21] <JaneMarple9> yes so do I Ainslinn - the protection ends in this boiok
[15:21] <Poet> In the cover art (flaps) text it says something about Harry waiting for the Order to help him leave Privet Drive
[15:21] <Narya> I also feel that Harry will rescue the Dursleys if they come under attack
[15:21] <You_wont_know_who> Harry will be attacked for sure
[15:21] <Spectre> A full-blown DE attack on Privet Drive?
[15:21] <Poet> So I think there will be Death Eaters watching the house
[15:21] <cbm> It would go against her pattern to have an attack on camera early in the book
[15:21] <Firepixie> where can i see the coverart??
[15:21] <Aislinn> yes, Prongs, and won't that be priceless - to see Petunia in that environment?
[15:22] <JaneMarple9> voldie won't be bothered if he kills muggles in privet drive
[15:22] <Kneazly> Maybe that's where Petunia's knowledge will come in
[15:22] <Aislinn> on the main page firepixie
[15:22] <MirandaV> I know...that confused me Poet, Ron and Hermione said they were going with him to Privet Drive, so things must change somehow
[15:22] <Spectre> Arabella Figg might die then... sad
[15:22] <JaneMarple9> oooo the dursleys at grimmauld place - perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:22] <MirandaV> I hope not...I love Figgy
[15:22] <Poet> Firepixie - the Leaky Galleries. You can get there from leakynews.com
[15:22] <Firepixie> thanks poet...
[15:22] <MirandaV> Uh-oh...I have to go, my sick little one is awake....talk to you all later!!!
[15:22] <Aislinn> bye MirandaV
[15:22] <Kneazly> Good luck Miranda!
[15:23] <lothlorien> I can't wait to see what the portrait of Mrs. Black would do if the Dursley's showed up.
[15:23] <Witherwings> Bye Miranda
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[15:23] <Firepixie> what do you think harry will find at godrics hollow??
[15:23] <Narya> I can imagine Petunia telling Harry what she knows because of her fear for her family, if they are attacked
[15:23] <Aislinn> let's sticck to the topic at hand, Firepixie
[15:23] <Kneazly> Can you imagine Petunia's reaction to all the house elves heads!
[15:23] <Firepixie> bye miranda
[15:23] <cbm> Basilisk, chicken eqq hatched beneath a toad
[15:23] <ProngsPatronus> bye, miranda
[15:23] <delafayette> didn't they say in HBP that they remioved mrs Blacks oic?
[15:23] <cbm> sorry
[15:23] <JaneMarple9> i don't think mrs black would be imoressed lothlorien biggrin
[15:23] <Firepixie> sorry
[15:23] <Firepixie> lol\
[15:23] <Spectre> or one of the Dursleys dying... that would also be a tragedy for Harry, I think
[15:23] <Firepixie> got a bit carried away there
[15:24] <Firepixie> smile
[15:24] <Aislinn> he wouldn't want to see any of them die, I agree spectre
[15:24] <Aislinn> np, Firepixie smile
[15:24] <Poet> Do you think that Voldemort will try to attack at the wedding of Bill and Fleur? Why?
[15:24] <Kneazly> Does Voldemort realize when the protection will end?
[15:24] <Witherwings> Esp if it were his fault
[15:24] <ProngsPatronus> I do
[15:24] <JaneMarple9> yes unfortunately
[15:24] <delafayette> maybe not LV but some DE's
[15:24] <Aislinn> I think that there will likely be an attack, yes
[15:24] <lothlorien> Yes, he knows many of the order will be there.
[15:24] <ProngsPatronus> he will not want a happy occasion in the WW--
[15:24] <Firepixie> depends where the wedding is
[15:24] <Narya> I think that the DEs might mount an attack at the wedding
[15:24] <cbm> No, it is too early in the book in my opinion
[15:24] <Aislinn> it is a prime opportunity to strike at the opposition
[15:24] <Spectre> Led by Greyback, maybe?
[15:24] <Firepixie> no one turned up at the funeral did they
[15:24] <JaneMarple9> dementors seem to lik creating drama at big events
[15:24] <Kneazly> I hope not--I want a happy wedding
[15:25] <delafayette> I am sure wedding will be at burroes
[15:25] <mathia> back
[15:25] <mathia> yay
[15:25] <JaneMarple9> and none of the weasleys have married for a long time
[15:25] <ProngsPatronus> we have an attack early in OotP, cbm
[15:25] <Witherwings> Lots of happy souls to feed upon mmmmmm
[15:25] <Firepixie> wb
[15:25] <mathia> :)
[15:25] <Poet> I thought Death Eaters would...but not after reading the cover art text
[15:25] <Aislinn> the funeral was at Hogwarts though - lots of protections there
[15:25] <delafayette> sorr for the spelling
[15:25] <mathia> what are we chatting about?
[15:25] <lothlorien> If there is an attack, hopefully the Order will be ready and waiting.
[15:25] <JaneMarple9> yes ww thats the problem
[15:25] <Kneazly> But on the cover art it does look like Ron and Hermione are wearing dress robes
[15:25] <Aislinn> good point prongs
[15:25] <Narya> I don't see the Dementors at the wedding, but it's perfect for the DEs to cause mayhem
[15:25] <Poet> Do you think that Voldemort will try to attack at the wedding of Bill and Fleur? Why?
[15:25] <cbm> I forgot, I was only thinking attacks by Voldemort
[15:25] <You_wont_know_who> the wedding is a good occasion to show his power - many people, perhaps from many countries, will attend it
[15:26] <delafayette> maybe Ron and Hermione were on a date.
[15:26] <Spectre> I wonder what security measures Moody would come up with at this wedding... smile
[15:26] <mathia> no i dont think so
[15:26] <lothlorien> lol, Spec.
[15:26] <mathia> im not sure he knows about it for starters
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[15:26] <Poet> The cover art text said that Harry would have to leave the warmth and comfort of the Burrow, so I hope it will be a nice quiet wedding
[15:26] <mathia> plus i think that this is to be the lat moment of peace for harry
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[15:27] * Snuffles munches on a yummy treat
[15:27] <lothlorien> Good point, Mathia, one of their greatest advantages at this point is their ability to keep things secret.
[15:27] <ProngsPatronus> hey, luke
[15:27] <cbm> I still do not think there will be an attack there, it will be enough drama to have Harry and Ginny in the same room
[15:27] <Witherwings> good point mathia
[15:27] <LukeFM> hello
[15:27] <mathia> until he kills LV of vcourse
[15:27] <Aislinn> that would be nice, poet, but it may mean that he has to leave it due to devastation occurring there
[15:27] <Aislinn> hi luke
[15:27] <mathia> thanks
[15:27] <You_wont_know_who> constant vigilance !
[15:27] <mathia> exactly cbm
[15:28] <Poet> Where do you think the final battle will take place? Do you think that the Dark Lord wants an audience for this battle?
[15:28] <Narya> I think LV is fully aware of the forthcoming wedding, unfortunately
[15:28] <Spectre> Maybe, a Fidelius charm will be performed to conceal the wedding?
[15:28] <LukeFM> Most of the Order wilol be there too
[15:28] <delafayette> Probably at Hogwarts
[15:28] <LukeFM> will*
[15:28] <mathia> maybe gordric hollows
[15:28] <Kneazly> Oh, he'll want an audience--it will be one of his repeated mistakes
[15:28] <ProngsPatronus> that is a good idea, spectre
[15:28] <mathia> back to where it all began for harry
[15:28] <mathia> ?
[15:28] <Narya> I think the final battle may take place at Hogwarts
[15:28] <cbm> I think it will be in front of the veil
[15:28] <Aislinn> I don't think that LV is looking at it as a final battle
[15:28] <LukeFM> But JK is
[15:28] <lothlorien> In the Ministry, behind the veil, and yes, I think he wants his "destruction of Harry" to be witnessed.
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[15:29] <You_wont_know_who> I must go, bye everyone!
[15:29] <Aislinn> I agree, lothlorien
[15:29] <ProngsPatronus> hey, joyhawk
[15:29] <Kneazly> by ywkw
[15:29] <JaneMarple9> its very possible godric hollow will be the final battleground
[15:29] <Aislinn> bye You!
[15:29] <LukeFM> hello joyhawk
[15:29] <JaneMarple9> full cirlce
[15:29] <ProngsPatronus> bye, YWKW
[15:29] <LukeFM> bye
[15:29] <Joyhawk2121> hello everyone
[15:29] <JaneMarple9> bye YWKW
[15:29] <mathia> the ministry?
[15:29] <mathia> really?
[15:29] <Spectre> The "audience" will be fighting actively against each other at the time, I think smile
[15:29] <mathia> why not at gordrics hollow?
[15:29] <Aislinn> I think they will be visiting Godric Hollow too early int he book for it to be the final battleground
[15:29] <mathia> yeah spectre that is true
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[15:29] <delafayette> yes I agree
[15:29] <LukeFM> I like that idea mathia
[15:30] <ProngsPatronus> I think it could either be the MoM, or Hogwarts
[15:30] <mathia> ohhhh thats right aislinn
[15:30] <LukeFM> He can visit it more than once
[15:30] <lothlorien> I guess I am using the US cover art as a major final battle clue.
[15:30] <Poet> Voldemort fears death, so it would be interesting if it could be beyond the veil somehow
[15:30] <Aislinn> and what do you think that setting is, lothlorien /
[15:30] <Kneazly> My guess is Hogwarts, but I agree with Lothlorien, and can't picture where that might be
[15:30] <Aislinn> ?
[15:30] <Witherwings> Do yuo think there are other entrances to the Veil than the Ministry?
[15:30] <delafayette> Yes
[15:30] <ProngsPatronus> yes
[15:31] <Aislinn> I think there must be witherwings
[15:31] <mathia> good question witherwings
[15:31] <LukeFM> Dying, for a start
[15:31] <mathia> ?
[15:31] <Narya> I think so
[15:31] <mathia> idk but it would be interesting if there was
[15:31] <Poet> We know that both Harry's and Voldemort's wands are "brother" wands; both contain a feather from Fawkes. Do you think that Voldemort will try to find a way to negate the Priori Incantatem?
[15:31] <lothlorien> I think they are either in front of the veil at the ministry of magic, or behind it.
[15:31] <delafayette> Maybe beneth Hogwarts
[15:31] <Spectre> Is it any different to enter the veil from its left side, or its right side? smile
[15:31] <Spectre> In Chamber of Secrets?
[15:31] <LukeFM> Maybe that's hwy there are no wands in the american cover, because the p.i. got in the way
[15:31] <mathia> mmmmm does he know that harry has a brother wand??
[15:31] <delafayette> probably not
[15:31] <Aislinn> He didn't seem to have done so, in OotP, although we don't know for sure if he was using the same wand
[15:31] <mathia> might tht be why ollivander dissapeared?
[15:32] <lothlorien> I think the mirror Sirius had in his pocket as he was pushed through the veil could be an entrance.
[15:32] <LukeFM> He's smart enough to figure out what happened in GoF
[15:32] <Narya> I think Priori Incantatem has played its part, and I still don't think LV's wand would ultimately have more power over Harry's anyway, even if the wands have to do battle
[15:32] <Kneazly> I don't know if he would figure it out--it seems like it's part of the anicent magic he underestimates.
[15:32] <Firepixie> just a thought here guys
[15:32] <Aislinn> good oint kneazly
[15:32] <Firepixie> LV destroyed the house
[15:32] <lothlorien> We know that Olivander is missing. Maybe Voldemort has him and hopes to have him construct a new wand for LV.
[15:32] <LukeFM> But if it thwarted him once, he'd research it
[15:32] <Aislinn> point
[15:32] <mathia> i think the real mpower lies in the wands holder
[15:33] <Poet> I agree lothlorien
[15:33] <Kneazly> could be, lothlorien
[15:33] <mathia> and i think harry will have the most power
[15:33] <Firepixie> which we all know the Aveda curse does not do
[15:33] <delafayette> Wands are just a Foci
[15:33] <Spectre> Voldemort will use a wandless Expelliarmus on Harry... :-D
[15:33] <mathia> i think that their being brother wands will just make the battle little more interesting
[15:33] <mathia> to LV's diadvantage ofcourse
[15:33] <Firepixie> n/m
[15:33] <LukeFM> of course
[15:33] <Firepixie> totally off track there
[15:33] <ProngsPatronus> I think it may draw Fawkes
[15:33] <Aislinn> yes, delafayette, and it's interesting that we see no evidence of wands on any of the covers
[15:33] <mathia> i mean it all comes down to LV having chosen his own opponenet
[15:33] <Poet> I hope we'lll see some wandless magic
[15:34] <Kneazly> I somehow don't think it will come down to wands fighting; I think JK will pull something unexpected out of a hat
[15:34] <Witherwings> There may be more things that brother wands can't do against each other, that we haven't seen yet
[15:34] <Narya> I think the rebounding curse was enough to obliterate the house - something LV could not have foreseen
[15:34] <Firepixie> true
[15:34] <mathia> that may be why harry has LV brother wand
[15:34] <Narya> I'm sure Fawkes will return to Harry's side when he needs him most, PP
[15:34] <delafayette> well once you have practice you may not need something to focus with'
[15:34] <Spectre> a Levicorpus performed on Voldemort... ugh, that's a though I'd never want to think again biggrin
[15:34] <Poet> Witherwings says, "It's more than just the ability to love that gives Harry an advantage over Voldemort, it is the end result of this ability..." Besides the Trio, who will give Harry the most help?
[15:34] <lothlorien> There are two sides to the phoenix feather core. LV's represents death and poison because the wand itself is made of Yew. Harry's represents life and rebirth because his wand is made of Holly.
[15:35] <LukeFM> g2g, interesting convo. though. Thanks!
[15:35] <cbm> Ginny
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[15:35] <ProngsPatronus> bye, luke
[15:35] <Aislinn> I think that all of the people and creatures that have been drawn to Harry over the years will come to his aid in some way
[15:35] <Narya> I think Remus Lupin will be a huge help to Harry - after all, it was he who taught Harry the Patronus charm, and there is a Patronus on the cover of DH
[15:35] <mathia> his father
[15:35] <Witherwings> I agree Ann
[15:35] <Firepixie> what if ginny does the same as lily
[15:35] <mathia> and dmbledore oddly enough
[15:35] <Kneazly> have to go, bye people, good chat
[15:35] <Firepixie> and dies to save harry
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[15:35] <Aislinn> Dobby, Hagrid, Lupin and the rest of the Order, the Weasleys, Firenze.....the list goes on and on
[15:36] <mathia> bye kneazly
[15:36] <lothlorien> Molly Weasley who loves him like a mother
[15:36] <Narya> Harry has many on his side who are willing to fight for him
[15:36] <Poet> Can you imagine Grawp coming to Harry's aid? smile
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[15:36] <ProngsPatronus> hi, ph
[15:36] <lothlorien> dobby, too
[15:36] <mathia> i agree with narya
[15:36] <ph63915> evening all
[15:36] <Witherwings> Grawp comign to Harry's aid would be a powerful ally
[15:36] <Spectre> Grawp and Dobby smile
[15:36] <Aislinn> I love the way Witherwings put this - it is the end result of harry's greatest strength
[15:36] <mathia> hey grwap could well be at harrys side
[15:36] <Aislinn> People are drawn to his very nature, and thus are very loyal to Harry
[15:37] <mathia> at the funeral it did appear that harry had him domesticated
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[15:37] <cbm> I agree aislinn, but I think i will be ginny who helps him the most, I think harry will not e lacking for people who want to help, the question to me is will accept the help?
[15:37] <Poet> Hi hp63915 - discussing Witherwings "Voldmort" chapter of harrypotterseven.com
[15:37] <ProngsPatronus> I think we may see unexpected people/creatures find their courage and come to Harry's aid
[15:37] <Joyhawk2121> hello Love4
[15:37] <Spectre> Viktor Krum?
[15:37] <Love4Fawkes> hi joy!
[15:37] <lothlorien> Definitely Neville has some critical part to play.
[15:37] <Aislinn> he doesn't like to, cbm, as he doesn't want to put them at risk
[15:37] <ProngsPatronus> perhaps the Centaurs
[15:38] <Spectre> Goblins
[15:38] <Love4Fawkes> i agree cbm. I think he'll at least accept help from Ron and Hermione
[15:38] <Aislinn> yes, prongs - I hope they join in
[15:38] <Witherwings> I think they'll all come to Harry's side out of genuine desire to help/love - while LV will only have those on his side who are seeking power or are afraid
[15:38] <mathia> the centaurs are very stubborn though
[15:38] <Poet> I'd love to see the Centaurs get involved, yes
[15:38] <ProngsPatronus> yes, spectre I think the goblins will help
[15:38] <lothlorien> I also think Prof. Snape and possibly Regulus Black will be surprise allies.
[15:38] <Narya> I think that's a good point, PP, since they paid their respects at DD's funeral
[15:38] <Aislinn> yes, witherwings, exactly
[15:38] <Aislinn> and that is what makes Harry's side so much stronger
[15:38] <mathia> good point witherwings!!!
[15:38] <Aislinn> they are more committed to each other and the cause
[15:38] <JaneMarple9> yes for the goblins
[15:38] <Firepixie> have to go do the ironing....goodnight everyone..
[15:38] <mathia> maybe that will be what makes harry more powerful
[15:38] <Aislinn> night Firepixie
[15:38] <ProngsPatronus> bye, fire
[15:38] <JaneMarple9> after all bill has worked with them
[15:39] <JaneMarple9> bye fire
Posted by: Prongs Patronus Jun 10 2007, 11:16 PM
[15:39] <Poet> Dumbledore tells Harry that "The time may come will you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life." Will Peter Pettigrew repay his wizard's debt? How do you think he will do it?
[15:39] <Firepixie> its been educational...lol x
[15:39] <mathia> bye fire
[15:39] <mathia> wait night??
[15:39] <Aislinn> I think he may do so, but not of any conscious effort at redemption
[15:39] <Narya> I'm sure that Peter will repay his debt, selflessly for once. I'm just not sure how he will do it thought
[15:39] <mathia> its only 4:40 here
[15:39] <Love4Fawkes> pettigrew will repay his debt, but i don't think he'll really want to
[15:39] <cbm> I think he will do it with his life in a split second decision
[15:39] <Aislinn> we're an international community mathia
[15:40] <Firepixie> its 9:39pm for me
[15:40] <Spectre> Pettigrew may murder Nagini
[15:40] <delafayette> He'll junp into thwe path of a spell
[15:40] <mathia> really fire?? cool
[15:40] <lothlorien> I see this in a very JRR Tolkein way, like Gandalf telling Frodo he may one day be glad that Bilbo did not kill Gollum...that Gollum, he felt, had some part yet to play.
[15:40] <mathia> where are ya?
[15:40] <Firepixie> that would put you in florida??
[15:40] <Narya> There is a reason Peter is a Gryffindor - that's going to come out in DH - JKR has to answer that question
[15:40] <Firepixie> i am near london
[15:40] <mathia> nope
[15:40] <mathia> lol
[15:40] <mathia> im in NYC
[15:40] <Firepixie> ny?
[15:40] <Firepixie> ha
[15:40] <Firepixie> that was my next guess
[15:40] <Spectre> it's already Monday down here in Moscow biggrin
[15:40] <mathia> aww ive always wanted to go to london
[15:40] <delafayette> Fire is at Hogwarts lol
[15:40] <Aislinn> let's stay on topic, folks
[15:41] <mathia> moscow!! awesome
[15:41] <Poet> That's exact ly what I thought lothlorien
[15:41] <Firepixie> sorry again
[15:41] <Firepixie> lol
[15:41] <mathia> sorry
[15:41] <Love4Fawkes> i think the magic will make it so he has to save Harry's life or will be unable to kill him
[15:41] <mathia> lol
[15:41] <ProngsPatronus> back to the question, please
[15:41] <Poet> the bond between Peter and Harry now is another one of those ancient types of magic
[15:41] <Spectre> If Nagini remains the last Horcrux, and Peter kills it...
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[15:41] <Poet> interesting idea
[15:41] <Spectre> if Nagini is a Horcrux in the first place, of course smile
[15:41] <Narya> I don't think Peter wants to kill anyone, and I do think he'll find what he's made of at long last
[15:41] <mathia> peter and harry??
[15:41] <Love4Fawkes> right poet, a type of magic LV will over looke
[15:41] <mathia> really?
[15:41] <mathia> omg how?
[15:42] <lothlorien> DD was pleased to hear about the connection so it has to be good.
[15:42] <Poet> Harry saved Peter from being killed by Lupin and Sirius
[15:42] <Narya> DD also pointed out that James would have saved Peter, so there has to be a good reason
[15:42] <mathia> oh yeah
[15:42] <Love4Fawkes> you think Peter will turn "good" Narya? (poorly put, but you know what I mean I hope)
[15:42] <mathia> i forgot about that
[15:42] <Narya> I don't think he'll turn good, Love4Fawkes
[15:42] <mathia> so ya think peter will want to repay harry
[15:42] <Spectre> Peter had enough guts to kill Cedric... and 12 Muggles, for that matter
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[15:43] <Narya> I think there is something within him, very deep down
[15:43] <ProngsPatronus> I think that he will back into paying his debt--but will be glad he did
[15:43] <Love4Fawkes> oh, ok. i see now
[15:43] <ProngsPatronus> hey, hermee
[15:43] <mathia> yeah i think peter is beyond being forgiven
[15:43] <mathia> hes a little rat
[15:43] <mathia> literally
[15:43] <Narya> Peter is venal, and cowardly - so far. His potential has never been realised
[15:43] <lothlorien> How did he end up in Gryffindor? There has to be some bravery in there somewhere.
[15:43] <Love4Fawkes> i'm not so sure he'll be openly glad about it prongs, but i hope deep down he's glad.
[15:43] <cbm> Peter can never be good, but he may protect him, much like he tried to steer Voldemort to another victim for his resurection
[15:43] <Narya> And JKR has said that only LV is beyond redemption
[15:43] <cbm> his is Harry
[15:43] <cbm> him
[15:43] <Love4Fawkes> peter has potential?
[15:43] <delafayette> Maybe as a rat the snake swallows him and cjokes
[15:43] <lothlorien> Good point, Narya.
[15:44] <Narya> I think so
[15:44] <delafayette> chokes
[15:44] <Poet> Must Harry kill Voldemort to secure the future of the Wizarding World?
[15:44] <lothlorien> lol, Dela
[15:44] <Love4Fawkes> that's true cbm, but i think that was selfish reasons too
[15:44] <mathia> yes
[15:44] <Joyhawk2121> yes
[15:44] <Aislinn> not necessarily
[15:44] <lothlorien> Oh, Yeah, definitely.
[15:44] <mathia> well maybe
[15:44] <cbm> No,he must vanquish him
[15:44] <Narya> Harry will never kill, not even LV
[15:44] <ProngsPatronus> no
[15:44] <Love4Fawkes> he must destroy LV
[15:44] <Aislinn> right, cbm - vanquish
[15:44] <mathia> the profecy never said it was harry that had to do him in
[15:44] <Love4Fawkes> or defeat
[15:44] <ProngsPatronus> he must destroy LV's capacity for harm
[15:44] <cbm> Maybe he just destroys the soul
[15:45] <lothlorien> Snape killed DD so Draco wouldn't have to, maybe he will kill DD so Harry won't have to.
[15:45] <Love4Fawkes> that's true mathia, but i do think it is harry
[15:45] <Hermeeownee> vanguqish may not mean kill?- perhaps it means sets things in motion for him to die -
[15:45] <mathia> prophecy*
[15:45] <delafayette> maybe he goes back to being a voldamist again
[15:45] <Narya> I don't even think Harry will destroy him; I think the word is "vanquish" - there is a huge difference in intent
[15:45] <Poet> I'm hoping that something Harry does will lead Voldemort to do something that is his own undoing.
[15:45] <Love4Fawkes> sorry, i meant defeat, not destroy
[15:45] <Spectre> There'll be more dark wizards anyway, so the future is never secure. "Constant vigilance!" smile
[15:45] <Aislinn> yes, poet, that is what i think
[15:45] <ProngsPatronus> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showforum=184.
[15:45] <Witherwings> JK porbably had much up her sleeve - ways Harry can destroy LV without outright killing him
[15:45] <Love4Fawkes> i hope so too poet
[15:46] <Aislinn> he will end up being his own undoing, due to the flaws we talked about earlier today
[15:46] <cbm> DD did say to Voldemort that there are things worse than death, I think that comment was forshadowing
[15:46] <Narya> That's a good point, cbm
[15:46] <Aislinn> I think so too, cbm
[15:46] <Spectre> Dark Arts didn't end when Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, and I don't think they will end when Harry defeats Voldemort
[15:46] <Love4Fawkes> i agree cbm
[15:46] <lothlorien> Life without love is worse than death.
[15:46] <Aislinn> and I wonder if his powers could be bound/removed in some way
[15:46] <delafayette> when LV tried to kill harry first time was that concidered being alive?
[15:46] <mathia> yes cbm!!!
[15:46] <Aislinn> leaving him a mere Muggle - something that would be much worse than death
[15:46] <Witherwings> Right, Spectre - there will always be the dark side to balance out the light
[15:46] <cbm> VD already lives without love
[15:46] <Poet> Will Harry use magical means to secure Voldemort's downfall? Would a non-magical means work against the Dark Lord?
[15:46] <mathia> maybe Harry will make LV go through something worse than death
[15:46] <Love4Fawkes> it was a half life I think delafayett
[15:47] <mathia> even though death is his biggest fear
[15:47] <mathia> cause someone sed it beore
[15:47] <mathia> harry could never kill
[15:47] <Aislinn> his greatest strength is called that for a reason
[15:47] <Hermeeownee> is there a way that they could make him Live with LOVE?
[15:47] <Narya> I think Harry uses magical means without LV even realising that it's magic
[15:47] <Aislinn> love will be LV's downfall
[15:47] <cbm> I think it will be magical means, but it will be instinctive on Harry's part and not planned
[15:47] <Love4Fawkes> i think Harry will use magical means
[15:47] <Spectre> non-magical means... lobotomy? biggrin
[15:47] <Hermeeownee> that's what he hates.
[15:47] <Witherwings> Maybe Voldie could just be shot mafia style ;)
[15:47] <delafayette> draught of living death?
[15:47] <Love4Fawkes> lol
[15:48] <lothlorien> lol, WW!
[15:48] <cbm> Much like his ejection of voldemort from his mind in the ministry
[15:48] <Spectre> like in Potter Puppet Pals' "Trouble in Hogwarts"? smile
[15:48] <mathia> haha witherwings
[15:48] <Love4Fawkes> maybe Harry should give LV that book that keeps the reader reading forever!
[15:48] <Narya> LV has a shattered soul, and as DD said, he didn't stop to consider the power of a soul which was pure and untarnished (paraphrasing)
[15:48] <lothlorien> Harry Potter and the Godfather...
[15:48] <mathia> hahaha
[15:49] <mathia> i would love a gangster harry
[15:49] <Love4Fawkes> that's a good point Narya, I'm sure we will see that come into play
[15:49] <mathia> lol
[15:49] <mathia> that would be SOME comedic relief
[15:49] <delafayette> Just as LV is gonna kill Harry he snoggs Ginny and the spell backfires
[15:49] <lothlorien> Harry's unsplit soul is definitely stronger than LV's torn soul.
[15:49] <Poet> Who do you think is on Voldemort's short list for termination (besides the Trio)? Will he kill any of these people himself, or will he send his minions/allies to do the job?
[15:49] <Witherwings> Snape is on his list for sure!
[15:49] <Narya> I think the Order are on the shortlist, as they have always been
[15:49] <mathia> yes but remeber that DD said that just cause he has a split soul doesnt mean hes any less intelligent
[15:49] <delafayette> The Minister and aurors
[15:50] <mathia> or agie at magic
[15:50] <Spectre> Moody...
[15:50] <mathia> agile*
[15:50] <Aislinn> Snape? doubtful, after what he did at the end of HBP
[15:50] <cbm> Anyone in the Order, and I doubt he will do it himself
[15:50] <Narya> I don't think LV wants to kill his prize '"asset" - not yet, anyway
[15:50] <mathia> well the oodp
[15:50] <Spectre> He *did* murder Amelia Bones though
[15:50] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is possible, Aislinn--killing DD would make Snape a rival
[15:50] <mathia> for sure
[15:50] <Poet> Right, I think Snape isn't a target from the DE at least biggrin
[15:50] <Witherwings> Oh I forgot some people took that at face value
[15:50] <Aislinn> yes, any of the Order members, and I agree that he would use his DE's to do it
[15:50] <mathia> the minister of magic
[15:50] <Spectre> Scrimgeour
[15:50] <lothlorien> Okay, well... the Weasleys, the Hogwart's Profs. , the OotP all come to mind. He will use whatever will work quickly.
[15:51] <ProngsPatronus> the Other Minister
[15:51] <mathia> and Mcgonnagol
[15:51] <Spectre> Slughorn
[15:51] <Poet> Anyone that stands in the way of Harry
[15:51] <Aislinn> true, Prongs
[15:51] <mathia> yeah slug
[15:51] <Joyhawk2121> Hagrid
[15:51] <cbm> I think he wants to keep the minister in place due to his lack of competence
[15:51] <delafayette> why McGonnagol?
[15:51] <Narya> LV only wants to kill Harry - he'll save all his energies for that. The DEs can take care of the rest
[15:51] <mathia> OMG what if he tries to get fred and george!!
[15:51] <lothlorien> And many will stand in the way of Harry if they can, Poet.
[15:52] <cbm> The other minister if a good guess due to the death of vance in the area and kingsley being there
[15:52] <mathia> yeah because harry is they key
[15:52] <delafayette> Too dangerous for LV to go to the jole shop lol
[15:52] <Spectre> and imperiused Chorley also, cbm
[15:52] <delafayette> Joke
[15:52] <mathia> lol
[15:52] <Witherwings> I agree with Narya - I think LV's death list is short
[15:52] <Poet> The big question: Will Harry have to sacrifice his life to take down the Dark Lord?
[15:52] <Aislinn> yes, I agree with that too
[15:52] <mathia> thin Fred and george would have something funny up their sleeves
[15:52] <lothlorien> If he tries to get Fred and George, he'll end up with an engorged tongue for his trouble.
[15:52] <mathia> the really are extraordinary wizrad
[15:52] <mathia> wizards*
[15:52] <Spectre> I don't think Voldemort would want the Minister dead, he'd rather Imperius him
[15:53] <Aislinn> I think he will be willing to do so, but ultimately, I don't think he will have to
[15:53] <delafayette> I don't think Harry will have to die
[15:53] <cbm> I think he will try to sacrifice himself, but will come out of it alive
[15:53] <Narya> I'm still not sure about Harry living to the end - I really hope he does. I can see him wanting to sacrifice himself, going through the Veil, but coming back
[15:53] <mathia> me neither
[15:53] <mathia> but the prophesy does not specify thats its one or the other
[15:53] <Spectre> "To conquer death, you only have to die..."
[15:53] <ProngsPatronus> I think he will ultimately live--but in what state, I do not know
[15:53] <Poet> Always near the end something happens where Harry "knew he was dead" but he doesn't actually die.
[15:53] <Narya> That's a good point, Spectre
[15:53] <Hermeeownee> I just read an article by Marie GrandPre- she indicated that it is a sad but good book...
[15:54] <delafayette> maybe a near death exp for Harry will do
[15:54] <lothlorien> Harry probably makes some sacrifice or attempts to, but I think some sort of ancient magic regarding love will keep him alive
[15:54] <mathia> i hope he doesnt en uup like moody
[15:54] <Hermeeownee> but that doesn't tell us if harry makes it or not.
[15:54] <Witherwings> If Harry had to die it would be a Phyrric victory
[15:54] <Spectre> Mad-Eye Harry... *shudders*
[15:54] <delafayette> he dies t6hen gets wizard CPR
[15:54] <ProngsPatronus> yes, Ww
[15:54] <cbm> I expect Harry to make it, I just can't see that being the end
[15:54] <mathia> Hahaha
[15:54] <Poet> Of course, it easiest to avoid more books if you kill off your main character. I just can't see Harry being the boy who died though
[15:55] <Narya> There is nobility in it too, though, if he has to die
[15:55] <mathia> mad-eye harry
[15:55] <mathia> thats hilarious
[15:55] <Poet> Yes, great nobility
[15:55] <mathia> i agree
[15:55] <ProngsPatronus> and yet...
[15:55] <Narya> And yet ...
[15:55] <JaneMarple9> ooo harr will survie, no fear
[15:55] <mathia> i would hate to see it happen
[15:55] <ProngsPatronus> there is the part about one surviving...
[15:55] <Narya> so we hope it doesn't happen
[15:55] <mathia> but one of the trio will go
[15:55] <mathia> i have n awful feeling
[15:55] <mathia> 
[15:55] <Poet> Exactly. I can't see Voldemort being the one who survives.
[15:56] <delafayette> maybe Harry will end up in Mungo's like Lockhart
[15:56] <lothlorien> Harry and Ginny will ride a broom into the sunset; I'm sure of it.
[15:56] <Witherwings> I just can't see JK killing off her literary son in his prime
[15:56] <Spectre> with permanent brain damage? It's worse than death
[15:56] <ProngsPatronus> that is a possiblity, delafayette
[15:56] <JaneMarple9> hope so lothlorien!
[15:56] <Narya> Harry is damaged; if LV dies, he has a chance to be whole
[15:56] <Witherwings> Even for a noble cause, that would be tragic
[15:56] <delafayette> ok maybe LV if its worse than death
[15:56] <JaneMarple9> yes nayra
[15:56] <Poet> I totally agree Narya
[15:56] <cbm> I think some weasleys will die, but the trio will make it, i have nothing to base that on though
[15:56] <mathia> hey maybe LV will end up with permanent brain damage
[15:57] <delafayette> didn't DD say there are things worse than death?
[15:57] <Narya> And be like the Longbottoms? Not a fate I'd wish on anyone
[15:57] <Poet> The OTHER big question: Voldemort, live or die?
[15:57] <Hermeeownee> die
[15:57] <Aislinn> and the boy who lived will not die
[15:57] <Spectre> Worse
[15:57] <mathia> Die or worse
[15:57] <Poet> die
[15:57] <JaneMarple9> errrr.......
[15:57] <Witherwings> DIE
[15:57] <cbm> I think he ends up soulless, as that has been described as a fate worse than death
[15:57] <ph63915> ghost
[15:57] <JaneMarple9> live biggrin
[15:57] <delafayette> alive on otherside of veil
[15:58] <Narya> I hope that LV dies to bring the series to its natural conclusion
[15:58] <delafayette> trapped
[15:58] <JaneMarple9> no die die die die die die die die die die die die die
[15:58] <mathia> yeah and then defeated again on the other side of the veil by sirius
[15:58] <lothlorien> In a way the final battle between LV and Harry is like a final battle between Slytherin and Griffindor. There is potentially an entire ancestry at stake here. My money is on Harry and Gryffindor.
[15:58] <Aislinn> yes he did delafayette
[15:58] <ProngsPatronus> I think that evil has to die to make way for the cycle to begin again
[15:58] <Spectre> Trampled by Crumple-Horned Snorkack
[15:58] <Spectre> 
[15:58] <JaneMarple9> and then die some more laugh
[15:58] <Aislinn> mine too lothlorien
[15:58] <mathia>
[15:58] <Poet> This sounds terrible, but he who loves to put his soul in objects....could end up a dementor victim and in some muggle institution. However, I think his death needs to be very final.
[15:58] <mathia> i love Luna
[15:59] <Narya> I agree, Poet
[15:59] <Witherwings> To LV there is nothing worse than death, even if to others there is. So I think he'll bite it.
[15:59] <lothlorien> Yes, Poet.
[15:59] <Poet> There needs to be no chance of him coming back
[15:59] <lothlorien> Gone like a bad egg.
[15:59] <delafayette> I can see LV trapped on otheside of veil forever
[15:59] <Spectre> I think that everyone who killed intentionally before will die in DH...
[15:59] <mathia> maybe the dementors will gain up on him
[15:59] <Poet> There needs to be no way someone could hope of freeing a part of his soul and putting Voldemort back together again
[15:59] <mathia> can you imagin being kissed my hundreds of demetors
[15:59] <Narya> I could just imagine Harry leading him beyond the veil, but coming back himself at the last instead of sacrificing himself
[16:00] <ph63915> ghost, haunting the c of s
[16:00] <mathia> that i believe is a fate worse that death
[16:00] <Witherwings> Right Poet - as long as LV is alive in any form he's a danger
[16:00] <Hermeeownee> He has to be killed or put where he can't come back - like through the veil.
[16:00] <Poet> Please join us again on Wednesday night. A big round of applause for Witherwings's wonderful chapter on Voldemort!
[16:00] <mathia> i cant believe this is the last book
[16:00] <cbm> My problem with him being on the other side veil is that he would still have a consiousness, I think the soul needs to be destroyed to make it final
[16:00] <ProngsPatronus> on that note, I want to thank everyone for coming this afternoon
[16:00] <Aislinn> this has been a wonderful chat!
[16:00] <Love4Fawkes> great chapter witherwings!
[16:01] <JaneMarple9> yes totally herneeiwbee
[16:01] <mathia> ::claps::
[16:01] <delafayette> The Dragon is an Animagus!!!
[16:01] <Aislinn> thanks for joining us Witherwings!
[16:01] <Narya> Thanks to Witherwings for a superb chapter
[16:01] <mathia> awsome
[16:01] <mathia> i hade a great time
[16:01] <ProngsPatronus> yes, thanks for coming, Witherwings
[16:01] <delafayette> nice chat
[16:01] <JaneMarple9> very good chapter smile well done witherwings
[16:01] <Spectre> a great chat and a great chapter. Bye all smile
[16:01] <Witherwings> Thanks everyone! It's been a pleasure to chat with these great minds!
[16:01] <mathia> you guys are all so great and smart
[16:01] <Love4Fawkes> great chat everyone! thanks!
[16:01] <cbm> I had fun!
[16:01] <Joyhawk2121> Thanks Withewings
[16:01] <Narya> See you all around the Lounge
[16:01] * JaneMarple9 prepares for the sunday hugs
[16:01] <cbm> see you all on Wednesday
[16:01] <Poet> (group hug)
[16:01] <mathia> bye smile
[16:01] <ph63915> thanks all, bye
[16:01] <lothlorien> Very good read, WW. Thanks to you and everyone for a great chat. It was great having the author here, too.
[16:01] <cbm> bye
[16:01] <ProngsPatronus> (((group hug )))
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[16:01] <JaneMarple9> take care all!
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[16:01] <Love4Fawkes> Hugs to all!
[16:01] <Joyhawk2121> bye everyone
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[16:02] <lothlorien> Bye All!
[16:02] <delafayette> ok kick me out Mod I still have trouble quiting the chat
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[16:02] <mathia> hasta el miercoles
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[16:02] <Poet> sure
[16:02] <ProngsPatronus> lol
[16:02] <Hermeeownee> bye
[16:02] <Poet> bye
[16:02] <ProngsPatronus> mathia?
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