Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Aislinn Aug 29 2007, 09:49 PM

Moderators: Sooner Gryffindor, Mr. McGonagall, Aislinn, Prongs Patronus, cloudpic.
[18:57] *** Aislinn has joined #lounge
[18:57] *** Topic is: Wand Lore
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[19:01] <SoonerGryffindor> hey cbm
[19:01] <cbm> Hi!
[19:01] <fawkes28> hey cbm!
[19:02] <Aislinn> hey cbm smile
[19:02] <Aislinn> thanks for the green eyes bit!
[19:02] <fawkes28> i'll probably leave quarter after but i figured it would be nice to stay for a few
[19:02] <cbm> No problem!
[19:03] <cbm> Aislinn, You can see why I was surprised
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[19:03] <Aislinn> yes, that must have just been a slip of the tongue or something.
[19:04] <cbm> I agree
[19:04] <Aislinn> when you said it the other day, it kind of brought it back to my mind - I've listened to those audio books a lot
[19:04] <Aislinn> but I never made the connection.
[19:04] <Aislinn> hi bubblehead
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[19:04] <cbm> When I heard it I did not know what color her eyes were
[19:04] <fawkes28> those CDs definitely make you see the books in a different way
[19:05] <fawkes28> they even get you to switch sides on certain issues eyebrow
[19:05] <Aislinn> but the book definitely says brown.
[19:05] <cbm> agreed fawkes LOL
[19:05] <Aislinn> yes, they do, and with good reason!
[19:05] <fawkes28> pffft
[19:05] <cbm> I still need to get the Fry version of DH
[19:05] <fawkes28> but you two were wrong now weren't you
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[19:06] <Aislinn> yeah, I haven't done that yet either
[19:06] <fawkes28> and got me over to that side
[19:06] <cbm> Yes I was
[19:06] <Aislinn> not really fawkes
[19:06] <Aislinn> hi AUrunna
[19:06] <cbm> I thought he was loyal to himself and he turned out to be loyal to Lily
[19:06] <AUrunna> whats up, cant stay long just wanted to see whats goin on
[19:07] <fawkes28> but lily still doesnt count - he wasnt loyal to harry
[19:07] <Aislinn> we're going to be discussing wand lore, starting at quarter past
[19:07] <Aislinn> exactly
[19:07] <cbm> correct
[19:07] <AUrunna> gotcha
[19:07] <cbm> I really like wand lore, it is a very deep subject
[19:08] <fawkes28> so do i but i will have to read the transcript sad
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[19:08] <cbm> :(
[19:08] <Aislinn> hi cloudpic
[19:08] <Aislinn> oh, hang around fawkes
[19:08] <cloudpic> Good evening hope everyone's well
[19:08] <Aislinn> back at you!
[19:08] <fawkes28> hey cloudpic!!
[19:08] <cloudpic> Yay to you!!
[19:08] <cbm> Hi cloudpic!
[19:08] <fawkes28> thanks
[19:09] <cloudpic> Howdy, cbm!
[19:09] <fawkes28> i can't - it is going to get dark soon - and i have to hike to the subway
[19:09] <cloudpic> ewww.... that's not good.... scamper!
[19:10] <cloudpic> (safely)
[19:10] <fawkes28> yes ma'am
[19:10] <cbm> hafe good ride home
[19:10] <cbm> have a
[19:10] <fawkes28> i'll stay till the questions come
[19:10] <cbm> how long is the walk to the subway?
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[19:11] <cloudpic> LOL... have you a tatoo...map of the subway? Too bad that particular bunch of theories didn't get any play!
[19:11] <Aislinn> hi FreedomStar
[19:11] <cloudpic> Hey, FreedomStar
[19:11] <FreedomStar> hello!
[19:11] <fawkes28> about 5 blocks
[19:12] <fawkes28> lol
[19:12] <fawkes28> not yet, cp
[19:12] <cloudpic> too far in the dark, though
[19:12] <AUrunna> soo does anyone in here listen to classical music?
[19:12] <SoonerGryffindor> I really dont
[19:12] <cloudpic> Copland
[19:12] <SoonerGryffindor> but I like it
[19:12] <Aislinn> yes, I do listen to some
[19:12] <cbm> I listen to HP books smile
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[19:12] <SoonerGryffindor> lol. Me too
[19:12] <AUrunna> how did you like the new soundtrack
[19:12] <Aislinn> Copland is great, cloudpic
[19:12] <SoonerGryffindor> hello jamie
[19:12] <jaimedanser> hello
[19:12] <fawkes28> i will have to do that soon enough - but i am taking a safety/defensive class soon
[19:12] <Aislinn> hi jaime
[19:12] <cloudpic> Hi, jaime
[19:13] <cloudpic> Wise decision!
[19:13] * cloudpic pictures fawkes swooping down ayeee ah!
[19:13] <fawkes28> hehe
[19:13] <FreedomStar> lol
[19:14] <cloudpic> brb... off to send some email....
[19:14] <SoonerGryffindor> I just want to go on record and state that Fawkes is quite capable of defending herself already
[19:14] <cloudpic> LOL
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[19:14] <fawkes28> angel_not
[19:14] <Aislinn> hi HeliumHead
[19:14] <cbm> How would you know that?
[19:14] <SoonerGryffindor> hahahaha
[19:14] <SoonerGryffindor> she likes to beat up priests even
[19:14] <fawkes28> oh shhh sooner
[19:14] <HeliumHead> hi there
[19:14] <SoonerGryffindor> hey HH
[19:14] <fawkes28> hey HeliumHead
[19:14] <Aislinn> fawkes, give the halo back to whoever you stole it from
[19:15] <fawkes28> and don't forget i whack friends too
[19:15] <fawkes28> but they whack back
[19:15] <SoonerGryffindor> Its her horcrux Aislinn
[19:15] <cbm> fawkes sounds violent to me
[19:15] <fawkes28> i am sweet and nice really
[19:15] <HeliumHead> from what I've heard she is
[19:15] <fawkes28> they just like to make stuff up
[19:15] <SoonerGryffindor> pffft
[19:15] <cbm> sweet nice and beats up priests?
[19:16] <Aislinn> yes, a bit of a paradox there, eh?
[19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> granted, the priest may have had it coming.....
[19:16] <SoonerGryffindor> but still
[19:16] <fawkes28> the priest whacked me too
[19:16] <Aislinn> ok, let's get started!
[19:16] <Aislinn> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You're not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you'll be able to type again soon.
[19:16] <Aislinn> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod.
[19:16] <Aislinn> You won't be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it" in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules
[19:16] <Aislinn> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation!
[19:17] <Aislinn> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat!
[19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> What would a witch or wizard be without a trusty wand? Prior to the publication of Deathly Hallows, J.K. Rowling hinted that wandlore would play a significant role in the story. Tonight’s chat will focus on wands as we explore the nature and meaning of these most essential and personal magical implements in the HP series. Wands at the ready? Both buttocks attached? Let’s begin!
[19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> Wands are composed of wood and an interior core of a magical substance. Celtic lore assigning certain trees to particular months played a role in Jo’s choice of wands for certain characters. Does the symbolism go deeper, though? What is the significance of holly for Harry’s wand and yew for Tom Riddle?
[19:17] <fawkes28> Have a fun chat! See you all later smile
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[19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> awww
[19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how Holly and Yew seem to fit these characters so well
[19:18] <Aislinn> I think those choices were quite apt
[19:18] <FreedomStar> I'm not too familiar with the woods, but I've heard that they match the characters
[19:18] <Aislinn> Yew is supposed to be quite poisonous, yet lives for incredibly long time
[19:18] <FreedomStar> lol, yeah, I guess that would be very Voldemort-ish
[19:18] <bubblehead> ooooh. that's Voldy all over it
[19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> Holly is associated with the death and rebirth symbolism of winter in both Pagan and Christian lore
[19:18] <Aislinn> and holly represents resurrection/rebirth
[19:19] <Aislinn> what sooner said biggrin
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[19:19] <FreedomStar> That's quite interesting
[19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> it has a whole new meaning once we know the whole story
[19:19] <Aislinn> there are actually some interesting sites on the web that describe some of the symbolism and properties of the various woods
[19:19] <bubblehead> that's pretty spiffy.
[19:19] <Aislinn> yes it does
[19:20] <FreedomStar> yes, especially with DH now
[19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> I always just took that on the surface to mean that Harry's holly was the opposite to LV's yew, but it goes deeper than that even
[19:20] <FreedomStar> The whole death/rebirth, with Harry dying but coming back
[19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> now we see that Jo was practically telling us that Harry would die and be "reborn"
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[19:21] <bubblehead> well. Harry didn't die, but he got close enough
[19:21] <cbm> I agree sooner
[19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how yew trees are so prominent in this book as well
[19:21] <FreedomStar> I like to think that Harry did die
[19:21] <Aislinn> he wood of holly is very white and is associated with death and rebirth in pagan and Christian lore. It is one of three woods used to construct chariot wheels. It was also used to make spear and arrow shafts, its properties assuring directness and precision.
[19:21] <bubblehead> JKR said he was in limbo and chose not to die
[19:21] <Aislinn> that is a quote about holly from a wood lore site
[19:22] <Aislinn> yew wood is golden in color and its grain is wavy. All parts of the yew are poisonous except for the covering of its berries. It has been held sacred by many cultures, and it is said to be the oldest-lived tree in the world, predating most buildings and structures. It has been associated with death and rebirth, and also runes, and had been seen as a magickal wood.
[19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Harry was not clinically dead, but metaphorically dead
[19:22] <HeliumHead> wasn't yew used for longbows?
[19:22] <FreedomStar> aislinn, can I have the link to that site? I should educate myself
[19:22] <AUrunna> well then JKR it seems went pretty deep in research about these things
[19:22] <Aislinn> and that is yew - it's interesting to me that both represent death and rebirth
[19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> http://www.wicca.com/celtic/celtic/sactrees.htm
[19:22] <FreedomStar> Yew is the wood of choice for longbow making - wikipedia.org
[19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> that is the website
[19:22] <Aislinn> http://www.geocities.com/astraeaaradia/treelore.html
[19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
[19:22] <Aislinn> and another!
[19:22] <FreedomStar> thank you both!
[19:22] <FreedomStar> hehe
[19:22] <cbm> thanks
[19:23] <FreedomStar> i'm a sucker for celtic stuff
[19:23] <bubblehead> me too
[19:23] <cloudpic> I think you're right about JKR's research, AUrunna... perhaps partly because of the interest fans showed right away!
[19:23] <SoonerGryffindor> Hermione’s wand is made of ivy with dragon heartstring as its core. Are the wood and core of her wand in any way symbolic of Hermione’s personality?
[19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> In all honesty, I am not sure what they ivy means
[19:24] <cloudpic> Nor am I.. but I love that of the three types of cores for wands
[19:24] <AUrunna> yeah, i just learned about the connection between the wood and the wizard right now, but that is really unteresting that she did that
[19:24] <cloudpic> It's Hermione who has the dragon heartstring!
[19:24] <Aislinn> there isn't anything on ivy on either of these sites
[19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> It is not listed on those sites. I think she got Ivy because of her birth month
[19:24] <Aislinn> yes, cloudpic - me too!
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[19:25] <Aislinn> didn't all of the trio get theirs from their birth month?
[19:25] <cloudpic> Well... we know ivy to be a persistent sort of plant... and determined too
[19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how the trio represents the 3 traditional wand cores that Ollivander uses
[19:25] <cloudpic> I 'm not sure...
[19:25] <Aislinn> that's true - it is quite a persistent plant
[19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> but Hermione shares the same core as Krum, I think
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[19:25] <cloudpic> and the same core as Lucius Malfoy!
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[19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome to the chat guys, let me repost the last question so everyone is caught up
[19:26] <cbm> Wikipedia has nothing for folklore and ivy, but there is an xmas carol called "The Holly and the Ivy"
[19:26] <elizabethsprague> evening all
[19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> Hermione’s wand is made of ivy with dragon heartstring as its core. Are the wood and core of her wand in any way symbolic of Hermione’s personality?
[19:26] <FreedomStar> Ok, Ivy is not as toxic as poison ivy, but it is still capable of inducing an allergic reaction
[19:26] <cloudpic> We also (here in the US at least) tend to link Ivy with halls of learning!
[19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> I forgot that Lucius has the same core as Hermione had
[19:26] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I was just thinking about Ivy on the halls of learning
[19:27] <FreedomStar> lol, Ivy Leagues...
[19:27] <SoonerGryffindor> oooh, that is a good thought
[19:27] <elizabethsprague> sorry im late
[19:27] <cloudpic> Jinx! Iheartporfesorsnape!
[19:27] <Aislinn> ooh, I like that thought a lot
[19:27] <Overcast> When i think of drangon hearts i think of the word fierce. I don't know why. That word can be put towards Hermione and Lucius.
[19:27] <Iheartprofessorsnape> To be honest, I don't see Ivy as being very strong wood, yet it is very resiliant
[19:27] <cloudpic> I associate the dragon heartstring with strong feelings
[19:28] <cloudpic> Yes, once ivy begins to settle into a spot ... either climbing a wall or covering the ground
[19:28] <MrMcGonagall> Hermione does have a fiery temperament once she's been poked with a stick.
[19:28] <cloudpic> it's hard to move it away
[19:28] <Iheartprofessorsnape> It's also very pretty
[19:28] <cbm> I do not associate the cores with people as much as the wood, as even the evil Tom Riddle had a Phoenix core wand
[19:28] <FreedomStar> I juts did a bit of research, and ivy was used to separate wine from water by filtration
[19:28] <cloudpic> It is pretty!... but perhaps sometimes a bit unruly!
[19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> that is fascinating freedomstar
[19:28] <Aislinn> it seems that the combination of both together plays a role, cbm
[19:29] <cloudpic> That's interesting FreedomStar
[19:29] <cbm> Unruly like someone's hair?
[19:29] <FreedomStar> hold on a sec, I've got more
[19:29] <cloudpic> ;D
[19:29] <FreedomStar> Here is what the page says: Old
[19:29] <FreedomStar> writers tell us that the effects of intoxication by wine are removed if a
[19:29] <FreedomStar> handful of ivy leaves are bruised and gently boiled in wine and drunk.
[19:29] <cloudpic> gotta say.... ewwwww
[19:29] <Aislinn> so, she is the sobering force of the group?
[19:29] <FreedomStar> So this could be a partial reference to Hermione always being level headed
[19:29] <FreedomStar> hehe, yeah
[19:29] <Aislinn> yes
[19:29] <cloudpic> Oh! nice thought, Aislinn
[19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> Ron’s wand (his own that he acquires in Prisoner of Azkaban) is willow with unicorn hair. Charlie’s old wand, which he had used pre-PoA, also contained a unicorn hair. Do you see any significance in Ron’s wand(s)?
[19:30] <elizabethsprague> im looking fowerd to seeing it on dvd
[19:30] <FreedomStar> Wands entwined with ivy were used in the worship of Bacchus, and are used
[19:30] <FreedomStar> in nature and fertility rites. Ritually
[19:30] <FreedomStar> and magically the ivy is paired with the holly tree and the vine
[19:30] <MrMcGonagall> Unicorn hairs seem to run in the Weasley family wands.
[19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> I always associate that with innocence
[19:30] <cloudpic> I rather like that his wand includes an element of the "innocent"
[19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> snap cloudpic
[19:30] <MrMcGonagall> Ron's wand being willow is interesting - swishy, bendable, easily swayed.
[19:31] <cloudpic> LOL... yep! Ron's mischievous.... but at core, rather naive?
[19:31] <Aislinn> magically paired to holly - that is fascinating, FreedomStar
[19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> Hang on, I will paste what the tree site says about willow
[19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> Also known as White Willow, Tree of Enchantment and Witches' Asprin. Once of the seven sacred trees of the Irish, a Druid sacred Tree. The willow is a Moon tree sacred to the White Lady, Its groves were considered so magickal that priests, priestesses and all types of artisans sat among these trees to gain eloquence, inspiration, skills and prophecies.
[19:31] <MrMcGonagall> Ron's wand - very flexible, easily swayed, but pure at heart.
[19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> For a wish to be granted, ask permission of the willow, explaining your desire. Select a pliable shoot and tie a loose knot in it while expressing what you want. When the wish is fulfilled. return and untie the knot. Remember to thank the willow and leave a gift.
[19:31] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I would think that unicorn hair would work better for women since they tend to like women more
[19:31] <elizabethsprague> i like ron wand
[19:32] <Aislinn> In western tradition it is a symbol of mourning and unlucky love
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[19:32] <elizabethsprague> varry nice so is hermones
[19:32] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M - that is a good way of describing Ron
[19:32] <MrMcGonagall> Interestingly, practically all of the unicorn hair wands we see in the entire series belong to men.
[19:32] <cloudpic> Hi, Nimthiriel
[19:32] <SoonerGryffindor> what was Draco's?
[19:32] <elizabethsprague> hi all
[19:32] <Nimthiriel> Hey People smile
[19:32] <MrMcGonagall> Unicorn hair, sooner
[19:32] <SoonerGryffindor> I know that Neville and Cedric had it
[19:32] <SoonerGryffindor> okay
[19:33] <MrMcGonagall> Draco, Charlie, Ron, Neville, Neville's dad...
[19:33] <HeliumHead> isn't it slightly ironic that ron lost his last wand to the whomping willow and his new wand was willow?
[19:33] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, and cedric
[19:33] <Aislinn> that is a bit ironic
[19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> lol HH
[19:33] <FreedomStar> The willow was said to have a potent influence on the mind resulting in inspiration, and is also associated with grief and death.
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[19:33] <MrMcGonagall> I'm trying to think of a single instance of a female with a unicorn hair wand core.
[19:33] <FreedomStar> Which might be one reason why so many people believed that ron was going to be the weasley who died
[19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> well, according to the celtic wood site, the willow can grant you your greatest desire
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[19:33] <Aislinn> which is interesting, Mr M, as the unicorn will not generally let a male touch it
[19:34] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I know in the USA a very popular and pretty tree is a weeping willow
[19:34] <SoonerGryffindor> I love how all 3 of them have different woods and cores
[19:34] <SoonerGryffindor> Lily Evans had a willow wand as well, but that's for a later question
[19:34] <FreedomStar> there are also a lot of references of willow to fertility, but I don't think that relates.
[19:34] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think Jo totally emphasized the complementarity of the trio with the wand and cores.
[19:34] <cloudpic> Perhaps the reason had more to do with having each Trio member with a different core and Ron ended up with the odd one out?
[19:35] <Iheartprofessorsnape> It is easy to see why it is seen with greif and death, the branches always are hanging down and look sad
[19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> The length of wands seems rather important. Ollivander measures the length of the wand arm, etc., and wands appear to be proportionate to the physical stature of the wizard. What are some examples, and why do think the length of the wand is different?
[19:35] <FreedomStar> oh look at this: The Willow has always been known as a tree of dreaming, inspiration and
[19:35] <FreedomStar> fascination and binding. Our deep unconscious thoughts speak to us through our
[19:35] <FreedomStar> enchantment. It was associated in Celtic legend with poets and spells of
[19:35] <FreedomStar> dreams, so if you have lost touch with your dreams or wish to increase their
[19:35] <FreedomStar> potency, place a piece of Willow under your pillow when you sleep. You will find
[19:35] <FreedomStar> your dreams will immediately become more vivid and meaningful. The Willow's
[19:35] <FreedomStar> weeping stance reflects its association with grief. By wearing a piece of Willow
[19:35] <FreedomStar> Willow") a person will be able to access all the levels of their grief, and
[19:35] <FreedomStar> (as in the popular song "All around my hat I will wear the green
[19:35] <FreedomStar> be able to move through these levels to gain healing and inner strength.
[19:35] <FreedomStar> whoa
[19:35] <cloudpic> And the willow weeps
[19:35] <FreedomStar> sorry, I have no idea why that happened
[19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
[19:35] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Umbridges wand
[19:35] <FreedomStar> yeah!
[19:35] <Iheartprofessorsnape> stubby, just like her
[19:35] <FreedomStar> a short wand for a short person
[19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> Hagrid
[19:35] <FreedomStar> I like to think of her as 'squat'
[19:36] <cloudpic> Umbridge had unicorn hair? and Hagrid?
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[19:36] <cbm> The toad is squat like a toad
[19:36] <Aislinn> Voldemort had a very long wand, and he was quite tall
[19:36] <elizabethsprague> what about DD's
[19:36] <Iheartprofessorsnape> with long fingers
[19:36] <Aislinn> well, his was the elder wand
[19:36] <FreedomStar> DD's was the elder wand
[19:36] <MrMcGonagall> Ron's wand was 14 inches as well.
[19:36] <elizabethsprague> ok
[19:36] <Aislinn> yes, another long one
[19:36] <cbm> We do not know about DD'd orinal wand
[19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Hagrid's was described as 14 inches as well
[19:36] <Iheartprofessorsnape> DD had the elder wand so it really isn't an issue, is it?
[19:36] <cloudpic> >OL
[19:36] <MrMcGonagall> And Ron is described as tall and gangly.
[19:36] <cloudpic> lOL
[19:36] <elizabethsprague> i was not hear sorry
[19:36] <Aislinn> Hagrid's was 16 I think, or else voldy's was
[19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> why wouldn't Hagrid have had a really, erally long one
[19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> was it?
[19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> I forget
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[19:37] <Nimthiriel> Hagrids was 16 ins and Oak...
[19:37] <cbm> I think it was oak
[19:37] <cloudpic> Sorry... remembering all the wand jokes in DH
[19:37] <cloudpic> "Wands are only as powerful as the wizards who use them. Some wizards just like to boast that theirs are bigger and better than other people's."
[19:37] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Oak, a stately tree
[19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, Oak totally fits Hagrid
[19:37] <elizabethsprague> night all . have a good one
[19:37] <MrMcGonagall> I think it makes sense that if a wand focuses a wizard's magic, the "antenna" would be proportionate to the wizard's stature.
[19:37] <SoonerGryffindor> me too cloudpic. I am being very careful in how I phrase some of my comments laugh
[19:37] <FreedomStar> goodnight elizabeth!
[19:37] <elizabethsprague> night
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[19:38] <cloudpic> Didn't JKR say Hagrid's oak was selected against the wand-wood for birthmonth pattern?
[19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> I thnk so
[19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> Hagrid just had to have oak
[19:38] <Nimthiriel> night
[19:38] <Aislinn> yes, oak is so fitting for him
[19:38] <cloudpic> King of the Forest = the Oka
[19:38] <cloudpic> *oak
[19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> all oak species have been held sacred by nearly all cultures that encountered them. They were revered for their magnificent size and beauty, and also for their resilience and acorns. Oak wood is strong and durable, and usually heavy and dense.
[19:39] <SoonerGryffindor> that totally defines Hagrid
[19:39] <MrMcGonagall> LOL. Heavy and dense.
[19:39] <FreedomStar> sooner beat me to it
[19:39] <FreedomStar> hehe
[19:39] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
[19:39] <FreedomStar> another name for Oak is thorr
[19:39] <cloudpic> dependable
[19:39] <FreedomStar> who was the god of thunder and and the sky, in norse mythology
[19:39] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Oaks are the best for tree forts
[19:40] <cloudpic> that's interesting, FreedomStar...
[19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> Judging from things Ollivander says in Philosopher’s Stone, wands seem to have different strengths. Lily’s swishy willow wand was good for charm work, James’ strong and pliable mahogany wand was excellent for transfiguration. What do you make of these different strengths of wands?
[19:40] <FreedomStar> He was also one
[19:40] <FreedomStar> of the most popular of the gods due to his relationship with mankind. Thor is
[19:40] <FreedomStar> often depicted as a tall, muscular and vigorous man with a red beard. He had an
[19:40] <FreedomStar> enormous appetite and his ability to eat and drink great quantities is featured
[19:40] <FreedomStar> in several of his legends. Thor was the principal champion of the gods and the
[19:40] <FreedomStar> chief protector of humans against giants, trolls, demons and other evil beings.
[19:40] <FreedomStar> His booming voice and flashing eyes could incite terror in his enemies. He was
[19:40] <FreedomStar> thought to be good-natured, courageous, benevolent, valiant and always ready to
[19:40] <FreedomStar> fight to help mankind, but he was also easily irritated and when roused to anger
[19:40] <FreedomStar> was apt to smash his adversaries to death with a single blow from “Mjolnir”
[19:40] <FreedomStar> his magical hammer.
[19:40] <FreedomStar> poo, it happened again; sorry! I'll stop copying and pasting big paragraphs
[19:40] <cloudpic> I liked that idea... that somehow the choice of wand wood fit the personal talents of the person who would wield it.
[19:40] <FreedomStar> I think the wands adapted to the person
[19:41] <Nimthiriel> Well everyone has their own strong point, if the wand chooses the wizard than it can probably pick this out, and therefore each wand has its own strength, like the wizard
[19:41] <FreedomStar> yeah, ditto cloudpic
[19:41] <Aislinn> yes, me too, cloudpic
[19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont think that individual wands are more or less powerful, but that each wizard has skills that the wand will complement
[19:41] <cloudpic> Yes, Nimthiriel.... I so wonder how the wands do that?!?
[19:41] <FreedomStar> it makes sense, because everything is about choices, and I do not believe that the wands alone are made to talent
[19:41] <Iheartprofessorsnape> thannks sooner, I couldnt think about how to say it
[19:41] <Aislinn> it makes complete sense that the wand wood, would be good for the talent of the wizard it picks
[19:41] <cbm> Sooner, the elder wand is more powerfful as Harry proved by fixing his wand
[19:42] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, I think the wand is natural drawn to a wizard whose natural abilities can ebst make use of the wand's qualities.
[19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> It does make you wonder how the wand would know ahead of time though. Like James wand being good for transfiguation. He got that wand before he ever met Lupin
[19:42] <cloudpic> Has anyone any notions about how this can be? Is it because the wands are made of formerly living things?
[19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> that one is different cbm
[19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> I am talking about wands in general
[19:42] <cloudpic> I like that Mr.McG.
[19:42] <FreedomStar> I think the wands adapt to the users' abilities
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[19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> hey chocolate
[19:42] <FreedomStar> hi chocolate!
[19:43] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> hey friends - i just blew off the car mechanic to come here! 2.5 hour wait? no way!
[19:43] <Aislinn> I tend to agree, that certain woods and cores are more predisposed for certain areas of magic.
[19:43] <cbm> It is still a wand, but I think that a more powerful wand would be attracted to a more powerful wizard
[19:43] <Aislinn> so it would tend to reason that the wizards that they select would also tend to have more talents in those areas.
[19:43] <Nimthiriel> I agree cbm
[19:43] <cloudpic> yes.. Ollivander seemed intrigued that Harry's and Riddle's wands were brothers even from the start
[19:43] <Aislinn> good, chocolate - this is much better choice biggrin
[19:43] <MrMcGonagall> And there do seem to be branches of magic that require a bit more "oomph."
[19:44] <cloudpic> or more finesse?
[19:44] <Aislinn> yes, or more finesse
[19:44] *** cloudpic requested CTCP wonders from #lounge: if that's spelled properly
[19:44] <Nimthiriel> well voldemort and harry both shared a part of each other...its really not that surprising now that we know this
[19:44] <cloudpic> OH
[19:44] <Aislinn> I would think you'd want a wand good for finesse to augment potion work
[19:44] <cloudpic> Nimthiriel! That's the first time that's hit me!!! thank you!
[19:44] <SoonerGryffindor> We discover in Goblet of Fire that Ollivander is not the only wandmaker in the world. Fleur’s wand was apparently custom-made. Gregorovitch seems to be the principal craftsman of wands in central and eastern Europe. What are your thoughts on the competition and differences in style among wandmakers?
[19:44] <Nimthiriel> LOL youre welcome haha
[19:45] <FreedomStar> Well, there seems to be no debate on skill
[19:45] <cbm> I really wish we had learned more about this
[19:45] <Iheartprofessorsnape> one thing about wands that has always made think in this book is how much wands think and act of their own accord, we can't see their brains so is it something a wizard should be more worried about?
[19:45] <SoonerGryffindor> well, I think that as far as competition goes, there isnt much. We know of only 2 wandmakers for sure in all of Europe
[19:46] <Nimthiriel> Well all cultures are different, so there would be a difference in customary beliefs
[19:46] <MrMcGonagall> I can see Fleur getting her wand custom-made and tailored for her in Paris.
[19:46] <cloudpic> I was just reading Krum's remarks about Gregorovitch in DH.... how he thought him the best by far (although he acknowledged the Brithish preference for Ollivander)
[19:46] <Aislinn> It sounded like the wands from Gregorovich were a bit more rigid than Ollivander's
[19:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I also wonder if availability of different magical creatures affects what cores are used
[19:46] <SoonerGryffindor> and types of wood
[19:46] <MrMcGonagall> Could be, Sooner
[19:46] <Nimthiriel> Possibly sooner
[19:46] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i want someone to have a wand made of bone
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[19:47] <cloudpic> Oh... interesting ... especially back in olden times when the wandlore was being developed in a particular world region
[19:47] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder what properties wood has that makes it work
[19:47] <FreedomStar> Possibly it depends on regional availability of woods
[19:47] <SoonerGryffindor> well, because you see different types of wood in differnt climates
[19:47] <Aislinn> wood is a living substance, with variations in grain, strength, flexibility
[19:47] <HeliumHead> well, i think that one reason that there is so little competition is that the market is in reality fairly small
[19:47] <cloudpic> That makes sense HeliumHead
[19:47] <SoonerGryffindor> I mean, I wonder if Asian wizards have bamboo wands?
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[19:47] <MrMcGonagall> It seems like there are certain trees that provide better wandwood. Bowtruckles prefer wandwood trees.
[19:48] <FreedomStar> biggrin
[19:48] <FreedomStar> bamboo wands...
[19:48] <HeliumHead> and that wand lore is very arcane
[19:48] <SoonerGryffindor> lol
[19:48] <SoonerGryffindor> it could happen
[19:48] <FreedomStar> to me, bamboo would be super springy and flexible
[19:48] <HeliumHead> good MrM
[19:48] <FreedomStar> people eat bamboo....
[19:48] <cbm> bamboo would be easy to put a core into
[19:48] <FreedomStar> yeah
[19:48] <Nimthiriel> hmmmmm bamboo wands....not very sturdy...
[19:48] <FreedomStar> bamboo would be an interesting wood choice
[19:48] <cloudpic> There must be some sort of spirit to the wood... it is a living thing... trees some of the oldest living things, no?
[19:48] <FreedomStar> I just don't believe it would make a good wand
[19:49] <FreedomStar> ditto minthiriel
[19:49] <FreedomStar> Well, trees are living, but spirits in the trees>
[19:49] <HeliumHead> umm, what about a sequoia wand
[19:49] <FreedomStar> I mean, there are probably cultures that do believe that trees have spirits (Native Americans)
[19:49] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Trees are more than just a sturdy living plant, they keep oxygen and other nutrients in the air and in the soil
[19:49] <cloudpic> Oh! Makes you wonder what US wandmakers would use.
[19:49] <FreedomStar> yes...but spirits?
[19:49] <FreedomStar> Lotsa redwood, that's for sure
[19:49] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> it's an interesting unity between plant and animal, wands are
[19:49] <cloudpic> Though... I'd like holly.
[19:50] <Aislinn> and filter the carbon dioxide out of the air
[19:50] <Nimthiriel> trees are alive...that probably definitely helps some part of the magic, i mean like it would be different than using plastic..
[19:50] <FreedomStar> I like that the wands are made from wood
[19:50] <cloudpic> So much of human lore includes some sort of wisdom in trees
[19:50] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> maybe the wood is more of a harnessing tool, and the core is the focusing tool, that helps the magic come out of the wizard and into a specific direction
[19:50] <cloudpic> We've long been in awe of them
[19:51] <SoonerGryffindor> Gregorovitch boasted of possessing the Elder Wand, and probably concealed its theft from him. Do you think Grindelwald’s ascent to power was due to his acquisition of the wand?
[19:51] <FreedomStar> it could be that trees are so connected to nature, and such an integral part of the universe
[19:51] <Nimthiriel> I can see that chocolate
[19:51] <Aislinn> that's an interesting way of looking at it chocolate
[19:51] <cloudpic> Oh, chocolate.. that's a fascinating idea!
[19:51] <MrMcGonagall> You know, I think this is probably true.
[19:51] <cbm> I think so
[19:51] <Aislinn> I think it contributed, yes
[19:51] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it helped
[19:51] <HeliumHead> wouldn't hurt his reputation any
[19:51] <FreedomStar> It would've made things a lot easier
[19:51] <SoonerGryffindor> but he was already pretty talented if he was almost an equal of DD
[19:51] <FreedomStar> it's the most powerful wand
[19:51] <Aislinn> it would have made him a more formidable foe, in putting down resistance
[19:52] <cbm> But DD was still able to beat him
[19:52] <MrMcGonagall> DD was obviously the more talented wizard, but Grindelwald might not have gotten quite so far if he didn't have such a powerful wand at his disposal.
[19:52] <Aislinn> I'd love to know how he did that, cbm
[19:52] <cbm> I was amazed when Harry fixed his old wand
[19:52] <SoonerGryffindor> you beat me to that thought cbm, if this really is an "unbeatable wand", how did DD win?
[19:52] <HeliumHead> the question was about Gregoravitch
[19:52] <cbm> sorry
[19:52] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i still have only read DH once, so my details on Gregoravitch are still very fuzzy in my memory lol
[19:53] <Aislinn> actually, it was about Grindelwald
[19:53] <HeliumHead> i'm sure we'll get there eventually smile
[19:53] <FreedomStar> I wonder what DD's wand was previous to his possession of the Elder Wand
[19:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> or whoever
[19:53] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> lol
[19:53] <Iheartprofessorsnape> DD probably wasn't scared of the wand and its powers so he wasn't worried
[19:53] <SoonerGryffindor> yeah, it was about Grindewald
[19:54] <Aislinn> I think that Grindelwald was already powerful and intelligent, but the wand gave him an edge
[19:54] <cbm> true, I think he was able to beat him even though all of the hallows are powerful, none of them are quite as good as their legend
[19:54] <Aislinn> right
[19:54] <MrMcGonagall> I think it can only have helped Grindelwald. Why else would he have been so eager to obtain it?
[19:54] <HeliumHead> oops my bad
[19:54] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Aislinn
[19:54] <FreedomStar> power is such a tempting thing
[19:54] <FreedomStar> ditto Aislinn
[19:54] <Iheartprofessorsnape> The Hallows have the powers, especially the wand, but without proper use it wasn't as valuable as it could have been
[19:55] <MrMcGonagall> Clever wizard, but he needed a tool worthy of his skills.
[19:55] <Iheartprofessorsnape> DD knew things most people couldn't dream of
[19:55] <SoonerGryffindor> “The wand chooses the wizard.” This all-important principle acquires great significance in Deathly Hallows. How do you interpret this proverb?
[19:55] <FreedomStar> i'm slipping out for a bit, be back in a few!
[19:55] <Iheartprofessorsnape> wands are like mini sorting hats...
[19:55] <HeliumHead> that a wand that doesn't choose you won't work well for you
[19:55] <cbm> My interpretation changed significantly in DH! smile
[19:56] <Aislinn> I think that there is a residual energy within the wand, from the two living substances the wand is made from
[19:56] <SoonerGryffindor> I have to admit that I thought I understood this until DH came along.
[19:56] <MrMcGonagall> Wands obviously have an allegiance. They are capable of seeking out a particular wizard and recognizing him or her.
[19:56] <Aislinn> and that it also absorbs energy from the wizard who possesses it
[19:56] <Nimthiriel> well its kind of interesting, as you can get ownership of the wand if you defeat the wizard who carries it...which i guess means that you earned it...you cant have a wand that didnt choose you or you didnt earn....
[19:56] <SoonerGryffindor> I just naively thought it refered to when a wizard buys a wand, now I realize it goe so much deeper than that
[19:56] <Aislinn> yes, nimthiriel, that is a good way of phrasing it - chosen or earned
[19:56] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, the wand sort of becomes bonded to the wizard who wields it honestly.
[19:57] <Nimthiriel> So did i Sooner
[19:57] <cbm> Before DH, I just thought it was a magicaly connection like Harry had the 1st time he touched his wand, now I am not sure whether I understand it completely yet
[19:57] <Aislinn> I do think it is a magical energy connection, cbm, but seems not to be a singular or static one
[19:57] <SoonerGryffindor> it seems like there are a lot of different factors involved. Not even Ollivander seemed entirely sure of how it all worked
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[19:57] <Aislinn> since it can shift allegiances
[19:57] <MrMcGonagall> I always thought it meant that the wand sort of had a will of its own - almost a desire.
[19:57] <cbm> I thought it was static
[19:58] <ProngsPatronus> hello, all!
[19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome Prongs
[19:58] <ProngsPatronus> what's the question?
[19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> “The wand chooses the wizard.” This all-important principle acquires great significance in Deathly Hallows. How do you interpret this proverb?
[19:58] <Aislinn> I think that's why Ollivander came across the way he did, Sooner - it is a deep subject, one that could be studied for decades
[19:58] <Nimthiriel> Yeah I thought so too MrM
[19:58] <cbm> Nimthieriel, If you take the defeating another wizard thing far enough, does that mean that harry became the master of Voldemort Yew wand?
[19:58] <Aislinn> so he was endlessly fascinated by what happened with his wands and the uses to which they were put
[19:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't get it - it connotates that wands ally themselves with a witch or wizard. Either their initial "choosing" of their owner is a sensing of the types of power that the student will most likely be good at, or the wands have the ability to choose and decide whether or not to go with a witch or wizard
[19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> so if not even Ollivander understands it all, what chance does a muggle like me have of figuring it out? laugh
[19:58] <Aislinn> that would make sense cbm!
[19:59] <HeliumHead> no, it has always had a dynamic element... wands being passed along in families
[19:59] <Nimthiriel> Hmmmm that could be cbm
[19:59] <Aislinn> LOL
[19:59] <ProngsPatronus> that the magic inherent in the core either "fits" with a wizard's own magic, or it doesn't
[19:59] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, Ollivander was a veritable directory of the wizarding world, simply because he could track them through their wands.
[19:59] <MrMcGonagall> LOL Sooner
[19:59] <Iheartprofessorsnape> my take on a wizard beating another wizard and earning their wand, that wand would see that person as a very worthy owner, thus it works for them not matter what the core or wood was
[19:59] <Aislinn> I don't see it as a choice like human choice chocolate
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[19:59] <Aislinn> more a chemical affinity
[19:59] <SoonerGryffindor> kinda makes you feel like wands should have a little more faith to their owners, doesnt it?
[19:59] <padfoot156> hello?
[19:59] <ProngsPatronus> I see it as a Magical congruency
[19:59] <Aislinn> hi padfoot156
[20:00] <SoonerGryffindor> hello padfoot, we are discussing wand lore
[20:00] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's like the needle on a compass. The magical aura of a wizard is like a magnetic field for the right wand.
[20:00] <ProngsPatronus> we have seen whole families "Sorted" at Hogwartsw--I think it is similar
[20:00] <SoonerGryffindor> In Deathly Hallows, Hermione is insistent that Harry’s wand could not have acted on it own accord in the flight from Privet Drive. However, if a wand “chooses” its owner, is it not possible that a wand may also act to defend its owner?
[20:00] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M
[20:01] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i wonder if it's exclusive, that only one wand will ever react to a wizard? like, if Harry wasn't able to fix his wand, and went back to Ollivander's, would a wand warm up to him again?
[20:01] <Aislinn> it seemed that this would not at all be a usual occurrence
[20:01] <Iheartprofessorsnape> 'ear 'ear, I thought this exactly
[20:01] <SoonerGryffindor> I think this is the part that confuses me the most. The wand doing spells without the wizard doig them
[20:01] <MrMcGonagall> This surprised me in DH when it happened, but I think I can understand it.
[20:01] <Aislinn> Harry and LV were tied together much more closer, soul-wise and magic-wise, than any other two wizards
[20:01] <padfoot156> so it makes sense
[20:01] <cbm> I think that like most things with Harry, this was a one of a kind event
[20:01] <SoonerGryffindor> can you please explain it to us Mr M?
[20:01] <Aislinn> yes, cbm
[20:02] <Iheartprofessorsnape> but, a wizard does not have to "say" a spell, if a wand is powerful enough and has the right magic, couldn't it almost read the mind of its owner and do what was necessary
[20:02] <padfoot156> harry doesnt follow the rules ever, does he?
[20:02] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Harry was looking for a way to save Hagrid and the wand took its cue
[20:02] <SoonerGryffindor> but it was a spell that Harry did not even recognize
[20:02] <padfoot156> the wand knew harry's intentions were good.
[20:02] <SoonerGryffindor> which means he did not know about it
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[20:02] <ProngsPatronus> I think that, perhaps, it has something to do with the soul shard in harry
[20:02] <HeliumHead> harry's wand was protecting harry
[20:02] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's probably in the same realm as accidental, unintentional magic. Harry was in a desperate circumstance, and the wand sort of "assisted" him.
[20:03] <Aislinn> I think the wand focuses the magic, Iheartprofessorsnape
[20:03] <SoonerGryffindor> kind of like when the sword came out of the hat?
[20:03] <cbm> according to DD, it attacked Voldemort because of what happened in the graveyard, with out the graveyard it would not act
[20:03] <Aislinn> so, it was almost an unconscious focusing, Mr M?
[20:03] <MrMcGonagall> Probably similar to the way Jo says the Marauders' Map "helped" Fred and George.
[20:03] <cbm> At least that is how I remember what DD said
[20:03] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that is what he said cbm
[20:04] * cbm picks up dh and looks
[20:04] <HeliumHead> that was an element of it cbm
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[20:04] <MrMcGonagall> See, I don't completely accept DD's explanation of why the wand reacted the way it did.
[20:04] <Aislinn> didn't he indicate that there was more power sharing between the two wands during that event?
[20:04] <HeliumHead> well DD said it was only a theory
[20:04] <Aislinn> it would tend to connect or "tune in
[20:05] <Aislinn> Harry's wand to LV
[20:05] <MrMcGonagall> The wand may have been capable of recognizing LV, whose own proper wand shared the same core, but I think the act of magic itself was the result of an unintentional urge on Harry's part.
[20:05] <ProngsPatronus> through Harry's connection with LV, Aislinn?
[20:05] <MrMcGonagall> The fact that it was golden flame makes me think Fawkes.
[20:06] <Aislinn> yes, Prongs
[20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> that is interesting
[20:06] <Aislinn> and those energy spurts travellling along the connection
[20:06] <ProngsPatronus> that would make it very like CoS, Mr. M
[20:06] <cbm> DD says Harry's wand contained some of Voldemort's magic and acted to protect Harry
[20:06] <ProngsPatronus> the Hat may have had the Sword, but it was Fawkes who brought it there
[20:07] <cbm> pg 711 us edition
[20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> Why do you think the holly and Fawkes feather wand chose Harry? Do you think it had anything to do with the piece of Riddle’s soul within Harry?
[20:07] <ProngsPatronus> what if it also acted to protect lv...
[20:07] <MrMcGonagall> Yes! And I noticed this long before DH.
[20:07] <Aislinn> yes!
[20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> I had never thought of that before this question, but now I think that did have a lot to do with it
[20:07] <cbm> I think 100% that
[20:07] <Aislinn> I think there is a larger, cosmic reason
[20:07] <ProngsPatronus> yes
[20:07] <MrMcGonagall> This was part of the reason I bought into the Harrycrux theory.
[20:07] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I wondered if there would be anything significant to when Fawkes gave the second feather
[20:08] <Aislinn> I think that it had to do with the timelessness of phoenixes
[20:08] <Aislinn> and the fact that the phoenix would try to restore a normal balance in the world, between good and evil forces
[20:08] <Iheartprofessorsnape> if it came after LV killed Harry's parents, would it be for good, remember DD was told immediatly that Harry got the wand, I have always thought that DD wanted that to happen
[20:08] <ProngsPatronus> you are saying that they are part of the "X" factor of the Universal plan?
[20:08] <SoonerGryffindor> so the phoenix consciously made a "bad
[20:08] <ProngsPatronus> or balance?
[20:08] <SoonerGryffindor> " and a "good" wand?
[20:08] <Aislinn> so I think the phoenix feather core chose Harry, but in part because it's brother was already owned by LV
[20:08] <MrMcGonagall> I think it's the wood that distinguishes the wands. The phoenix feather is immortality, but holly is a resurrection wood, whereas yew is the wood of death.
[20:09] <Aislinn> yes
[20:09] <SoonerGryffindor> it goes back to the duality of the wands. The wood and the core
[20:09] <Nimthiriel> yes i quite agree MrM
[20:09] <ProngsPatronus> the interaction between the two, therefore, would lend themselves to different personalities
[20:09] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Harry as a horcrux is, in essence, Lord Voldemort
[20:09] <cbm> I think it is interesting that both Harry and voldemort were near death at one point and then resurrected
[20:10] <ProngsPatronus> I disagree
[20:10] <ProngsPatronus> Harry is not in essence, anyone but himself
[20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> that is interesing cbm
[20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> but he does have a piece of riddle in him
[20:10] <SoonerGryffindor> and maybe the wand recognized that
[20:10] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> just like the sorting hat recognized it
[20:10] <MrMcGonagall> I think the Sorting Hat had also picked up on the secret piece of LV's soul in Harry. That's what almost threw the Hat in trying to sort him.
[20:11] <ProngsPatronus> yes, he does--but Harry's essence remains--and remains in control
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[20:11] <Aislinn> yes, I think that's exactly what the hat was seeing
[20:11] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I wasn't saying that he was Lord voldemort, but that the wand would recognize parts of him
[20:11] <Aislinn> but Harry chose, and that was all important
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[20:11] <MrMcGonagall> I agree with Prongs - the horcrux is a barnacle on Harry's brain.
[20:11] <Nimthiriel> well some of the parts were visible...like the parseltounge ability
[20:11] <cbm> lol
[20:11] <ProngsPatronus> not even LV knew it was there--but I bet the wands did
[20:12] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> that's what makes the wand different, Aislinn... harry didn't choose the wand, so it went with the default "bit o' voldie" connection
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[20:12] <ProngsPatronus> that would give even more imptus for the PI, as well
[20:12] <Aislinn> I think the wand chose him for more than just Voldy
[20:12] <ProngsPatronus> I do, too
[20:12] <Nimthiriel> i agree
[20:12] <SoonerGryffindor> . Why do you think Voldemort didn’t ask Ollivander to fashion him a new wand, rather than borrowing Lucius’? Wouldn’t a brand new wand have worked better for Voldemort than a borrowed one?
[20:12] <ProngsPatronus> otherwise, the Holly part of the wand would have rejected him
[20:12] <Aislinn> it also chose him for his inherent "goodness" - his predisposition to sacrifice himself for the good of society
[20:13] <cbm> We do not know how long it takes to fashion a wand
[20:13] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I still don't think it would have worked, what if that new wand didn't choose him
[20:13] <HeliumHead> partly to humiliate lucius
[20:13] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think LV wanted a new wand
[20:13] <Aislinn> I think he was doing that as much to humiliate Lucius as to acuire a wand
[20:13] <SoonerGryffindor> This is a very good question. why not have another one made?
[20:13] <Aislinn> he only need it in facing Harry, not for the rest of his magic
[20:13] <ProngsPatronus> I think LV just wanted around the PI
[20:14] <Nimthiriel> definitely part humilate, and besides he was after the elder wand in the end anyways
[20:14] <ProngsPatronus> LV likes his wand
[20:14] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, as a one-time thing, LV wouldn't go to the trouble of having a second wand made. Ollivander had told him that any other wand would do.
[20:14] <MrMcGonagall> LV is all about taking the easy path.
[20:14] <Aislinn> his wand chose him as well, and is suited to his skills
[20:14] <cbm> Would another new wand choose him while his original existed?
[20:15] <ProngsPatronus> and, if Harry did not have that bit of LV in him, I think it would have worked
[20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> his wand was destroyed by Harry's wasn't it? Isn't that extremely unusual? I mean, if there was a spell to destroy someone's wand, you'd think all the DE's would have learned it to completely disarm their opponents?
[20:15] <Aislinn> good question, cbm
[20:15] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i mean lucius' wand
[20:15] <Aislinn> several wands seem to be giving their allegiance to Harry by the end
[20:15] <ProngsPatronus> he is the Quintessence
[20:15] <cbm> But they were all captured, not new
[20:15] <Aislinn> it was quite unusual, chocolate
[20:15] <Aislinn> it was a golden flash of light
[20:15] <Aislinn> we've never seen that before
[20:15] <MrMcGonagall> I think Harry's wand may have sensed LV using an inferior one, which is why it's strange magic destroyed Lucius'.
[20:16] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i think that's why Voldie went to Ollivander, for information on how to get a wand that wouldn't do that again
[20:16] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is significant that it was only the wand that was affected
[20:17] <ProngsPatronus> I have to wonder whether the magic was directed at LV, or at the wand LV was using
[20:17] <Iheartprofessorsnape> it was the only wand coming after Harry with the killing curse
[20:17] <Aislinn> interesting, Prongs!
[20:18] <ProngsPatronus> I also think the absolute nature of the curse figures in, as well
[20:18] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> i don't like the wands having allegance... wouldn't Snape's wand have belonged to Harry or Hermione or Ron after PoA since they disarmed him?
[20:18] <MrMcGonagall> I wondered about this too Prongs. I think Harry's wand was focusing on other wand, not specifically LV's person.
[20:18] <SoonerGryffindor> . The Elder Wand is revealed in Deathly Hallows. The wand itself is the stuff of legend. Do you think that the Wand itself is unbeatable when wielded by its true owner, or do you think it is merely an exceptionally powerful wand?
[20:18] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think that the wand would work against a "kindred" soul shard, Mr. M
[20:18] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I feel like it is a little bit of both
[20:19] <HeliumHead> merely exceptionally powerfull
[20:19] <cbm> I think it was just more powerful
[20:19] <Aislinn> do you think taht was because he is so averse to killing, Mr M?
[20:19] <Iheartprofessorsnape> in general it is a very powerful wand, and in the right hands it is even more powerful than normal
[20:19] <Joyhawk2121> exceptionally powerful wand
[20:19] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think it was truly unbeatable... just an exceptionally powerful wand.
[20:19] <cbm> After all DD did beat it through being a better wizard
[20:19] <Aislinn> it is not unbeatable, of DD would not have successfully gotten it away
[20:19] <MrMcGonagall> Exactly, Aislinn.
[20:19] <Aislinn> or any of the other people who stole it down through the years.
[20:19] <HeliumHead> right
[20:20] <ProngsPatronus> I think that the wizard has to be the most powerful wizard around for the Elder wand to reach its true potential
[20:20] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> I don't like that the invisiblity cloak has the properties of legend, and the stone has the properties of legend, but the wand doesn't
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[20:21] <MrMcGonagall> Legend tends to hyperbolize the nature of things.
[20:21] <Aislinn> yes, I'd agree Mr M
[20:21] <HeliumHead> except that the wand has more legends attatched
[20:21] <ProngsPatronus> the wand is the Hallow most known to the WW, though
[20:21] <Aislinn> neither of the other objects truly do what they describe either
[20:21] <cbm> I think that all three are not quite as good as their legend, after all the cloak was good but not perfect
[20:21] <Aislinn> the ring doesn't bring back the dead, just draws them closer to the veil
[20:22] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> draws them closer to the veil?
[20:22] <Aislinn> and the cloak didn't make the wearer invincible, just invisible
[20:22] <Aislinn> yes, so they can be viewed by the living
[20:22] <ProngsPatronus> I think it has to do with the nature of the request made by each brother, and the interpretation Death put on those requests
[20:22] <Aislinn> yes, Prongs, exactly
[20:22] <cbm> And DD knew a spell to see if someone was there to defeat the cloak
[20:22] <Aislinn> the wording is key
[20:23] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, the cloak isn't literally going to hide you from Death, because death is not literally a Grim Reaper coming to tap you on the shoulder.
[20:23] <ProngsPatronus> the Wand is only as powerful as the wizard wielding it
[20:23] <Iheartprofessorsnape> ps...is anyone else unable to see the yellow???? I have to highlight it to read it
[20:23] <cbm> But Harry was more powerful with it than his normal wand
[20:23] <ProngsPatronus> he was the Quintessence
[20:23] <HeliumHead> i think that while a normal wand which has chosen its user works at say 80% efficiency, the Eldar wand works at 100% for its master
[20:23] <ProngsPatronus> the most powerful wizard around
[20:24] <MrMcGonagall> According to Beedle the Bard’s story, Death created the wand from an elder tree, though it is more likely the creation of one of the Peverell brothers. We are given no clue as to what core (if any) the wand contains. What are the arguments for and against the Elder Wand containing a traditional core of a magical substance?
[20:24] <FreedomStar> I believe it is just an exceptionally powerful wand, and to use it correctly the wielder has to have a very good knowledge of how to use it
[20:24] <cbm> I like that Helium, but I would go 50% and 100%, as I think the fixing of the holly wand was incredible magic
[20:25] <Aislinn> I wonder if it would have a core like a hair from Death's head
[20:25] <ProngsPatronus> I think it may combine the three magical cores within it--unicorn hair, a gragon heartstring, and phoenix feather
[20:25] <FreedomStar> that's what I was just about to say aislinn
[20:25] <MrMcGonagall> I don't see how it couldn't have a core of some kind of substance. Granted it's a unique wand, but one that only functions with wood? I don't think so.
[20:25] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I guess I never really thought that it had a core
[20:25] <HeliumHead> i was just using a for example number
[20:25] <cbm> I bet it is something incredibly rare,
[20:26] <Aislinn> the three that are used in Britain are not the only three cores used
[20:26] <Aislinn> there is the veela hair in Fleur's
[20:26] <Iheartprofessorsnape> For some reason I thought it was the magic placed on the wand that created its power and not its core
[20:26] <MrMcGonagall> I rather like Prongs' idea, though.
[20:26] <ProngsPatronus> I know--but the Peverells were British
[20:26] <Aislinn> so, it could be something else, more rare
[20:26] <Aislinn> that's true
[20:26] <Aislinn> and combining them may tend to increase the power
[20:26] <ProngsPatronus> the core could also be some of Death's own substance
[20:26] <HeliumHead> but to create the wand they really had to know wand lore in depth
[20:26] <Aislinn> that's what I would guess
[20:26] <MrMcGonagall> Maybe it contains prime matter. LOL
[20:27] <cbm> Maybe it is hair from merlin smile
[20:27] <FreedomStar> biggrin
[20:27] <FreedomStar> lol
[20:27] <ginginkat> lol
[20:27] <ProngsPatronus> that is one of the reasons that the trio was so powerful together--they combine those three cores between them
[20:27] <Aislinn> yes!
[20:27] <cbm> agreed prongs
[20:27] <ProngsPatronus> so I could see the Elder Wand being akin to that
[20:27] <MrMcGonagall> The Elder Wand surfaced throughout the ages, sometimes known as the Deathstick or the Wand of Destiny. What do you think explains its bloody history?
[20:28] <ProngsPatronus> people always seem to want power
[20:28] <Aislinn> it attracts people who are drawn to power
[20:28] <FreedomStar> I think that because the elder wand is so powerful, that to 'defeat' the person who held it usually meant death
[20:28] <cbm> Power
[20:28] <ProngsPatronus> the Elder Wand obliged them
[20:28] <Joyhawk2121> yes, power
[20:28] <HeliumHead> natural attraction for those wanting to be more powerful
[20:28] <Iheartprofessorsnape> As with other powerful magic objects it was abused by those who would use it for its greatest evil power
[20:28] <FreedomStar> It's probably very possible to wind the EW without a death, but since the holder of the wand would be so powerful, it would most likely result in a battle to the death
[20:28] <Aislinn> just like the quote that Quirrell said in PS - there is no good and evil, merely power and those too weak to seek it
[20:28] <MrMcGonagall> I think it attracts and is attracted to powerful wizards.
[20:29] <Aislinn> People who believe that would want the Elder wand
[20:29] <FreedomStar> although Grindelwald was the exception to that
[20:29] <FreedomStar> i wonder how many people have actually held the wand
[20:29] <MrMcGonagall> It often seems to have been stolen from its owners. Maybe this is when it disappears into history - when a less powerful wizard acquires it.
[20:29] <Aislinn> hmmm, that could be
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[20:30] <MrMcGonagall> A wizard who isn't able to make full use of its capabilities.
[20:30] <nimbusxl> Hi folks
[20:30] <Aislinn> hi nimbusxl - we're talking about wand lore
[20:30] <MrMcGonagall> Question repeat: The Elder Wand surfaced throughout the ages, sometimes known as the Deathstick or the Wand of Destiny. What do you think explains its bloody history?
[20:30] <Aislinn> and specifically, the Elder wand and it's bloody history, right now
[20:31] <nimbusxl> Grindelwald used it a lot for nasty stuff didn't he?
[20:31] <Aislinn> I bet that many of the people who took it, believed as LV did, that it had to be conquered through killing the owner
[20:31] <Aislinn> not just stolen
[20:31] <HeliumHead> agreed
[20:32] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, it's usually framed as a question of defeating the previous owner.
[20:32] <Nimthiriel> well it probably was sought after by a lot of people like Voldemort and Grindelwald who had some great plan for destruction too
[20:32] <Iheartprofessorsnape> It can be as simple as expelliarmus
[20:32] <Aislinn> it was for Draco
[20:32] <Aislinn> and then Harry didn't even need a spell
[20:33] <nimbusxl> Does it have to be a spell? Can the wand be taken physically?
[20:33] <HeliumHead> yes, harry took draco
[20:33] <cbm> Harry took Draco's without a spell
[20:33] <Aislinn> that's how Harry gained control, wasn't it? He grabbed Draco's wand
[20:36] <Aislinn> wood does have the ability to soak things in, so it makes sense
[20:36] <ProngsPatronus> I think, though, that it takes a certain kind of wizard to succumb to the lure of the Elder Wand
[20:36] <nimbusxl> Does the Elder wand have a will of its own?
[20:37] <cloudpic> well... if wands "choose" the wizard... there must be something
[20:37] <ProngsPatronus> I think it has a "proto" will, like the Sorting Hat
[20:37] <MrMcGonagall> I think it does rather. not like a human will, but it's attracted to powerful wizards.
[20:37] <Aislinn> yes
[20:37] <cloudpic> Of course it could be no more than the way a compass chooses North
[20:38] <MrMcGonagall> A wand does not seem to work properly against its true owner. Voldemort’s Cruciatus Curse in the forest fails to cause Harry any pain, and the Elder Wand refuses to kill Harry in the final duel. Do you think this would be true of any wand forced to fight against its recognized owner?
[20:38] <cloudpic> But clearly the lore about the Elder Wand implies there was something more to it
[20:38] <FreedomStar> <Aislinn> wood does have the ability to soak things in <-- priori incantatem
[20:38] <cloudpic> Seems like a likely explanation... another element of loyalty in a series which likes that theme
[20:39] <Joyhawk2121> bye, everyone
[20:39] <FreedomStar> bye joyhawk
[20:39] <nimbusxl> No I don't. I think if you can't be AKed by your own wand then this would have been expalined much sooner.
[20:39] <HeliumHead> i think it depends upon if the proper owner is resisting the spell

[20:42] <cloudpic> Oh, that's a good explanation... part of the original creation
[20:42] <cbm> I also think that at that point in the story, harry was in a position that no wizard had been in before, so we may not know the correct answer until we ask JKR
[20:42] <Aislinn> that's probably true, cbm
[20:42] <cloudpic> ;D
[20:42] <MrMcGonagall> Dumbledore understood the theory of wand allegiance, and intended to make Snape the master of the Elder Wand in the hopes of breaking its power, since he had arranged his death with Severus, effectively “giving” the wand away. Do you think Dumbledore’s plan would have worked?
[20:42] <cloudpic> I wonder if she's worked it out... or would make up an explanation on the spot! Clever writer she is!
[20:43] <cbm> I bet she knows exactly why it occurred
[20:43] <Aislinn> I wonder what the two of them planned to have Snape do with it, if that part of the plan had succeeded?
[20:43] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I think so
[20:43] <MrMcGonagall> I don't know about this. I think DD would have been taking a tremendous risk on this one.
[20:43] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Snape may not have been able to use the wand to its fullest potential, but it would have been his wand
[20:43] <cloudpic> Imagine the level of trust this involved... handing off the Elder Wand
[20:43] <cbm> I bet Snape did not even know what the elder wand was
[20:43] <MrMcGonagall> Of course, it was DD's plan, and Snape had no knowledge of it.
[20:44] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think DD would hae tempted Snape by revealing the Elder Wand.
[20:44] <cbm> DD was good at keeping secrets and the elder wand was one off the Big ones
[20:44] <cbm> of the big ones
[20:44] <cloudpic> And Dumbledore understood the lure of power and its dangers.
[20:44] <cloudpic> alas.
[20:44] <Aislinn> I confess that this part of the plan confuses me completely
[20:44] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, DD was probably the noblest person (before Harry, of course) to ever gain the allegiance of the wand
[20:44] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think DD's plan would have worked
[20:45] <ProngsPatronus> Snape has his own issues with power
[20:45] <Aislinn> since Snape did not know what the wand was, what would have been gained by having him acquire it? Or was that the point?
[20:45] <nimbusxl> So why didn't Snape take the wand? Why was it buried with DD?
[20:45] <Aislinn> it wasn't his, and he had fled at that point
[20:45] <HeliumHead> i think that was part of the point
[20:46] <ProngsPatronus> I think that DD did not understand the wand allegience theory as well as he thought, if Draco was the true master
[20:46] <MrMcGonagall> DD's plan, I think, was to render the wand's special power impotent, as Snape wouldn't have truly "defeated" him and won the wand's allegiance. But I think that's a stretch on DD's part.
[20:46] <cbm> At that point only one living person knew the wand was special
[20:46] <HeliumHead> yes MrM
[20:46] <Aislinn> yes, I have trouble thinking that this part of the plan would have worked, even if Dd's plan had occured in the way he wished
[20:46] <ProngsPatronus> I am not sure of that, Mr. M
[20:47] <cbm> but if DD was not really defeated, would the allegience of the wand shifted?
[20:47] <MrMcGonagall> No, the wand's allegiance would have died with DD.
[20:48] <HeliumHead> at least that was the theory
[20:48] <Aislinn> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?showforum=184.
[20:48] <MrMcGonagall> Yes, but again, I think it was a huge risk for DD to take.
[20:48] <MrMcGonagall> Things worked out better as Jo wrote them. LOL
[20:48] <Aislinn> he took quite a few risks
[20:48] <ginginkat> DD's plan to draw attention away from the real owner (Draco) so that LV would not go after Draco?
[20:48] <cloudpic> I've got to re-read. I can certainly see that now!
[20:49] <HeliumHead> no, DD didn't plan on Draco becoming its master
[20:49] <MrMcGonagall> DD never anticipated Draco disarming him.
[20:49] <nimbusxl> New respect for ollivander thats for sure.
[20:49] <MrMcGonagall> Harry voluntarily renounces possession of the Elder Wand, using its power to repair his own. Do you think this was sufficient to break the Elder Wand’s allegiance to him, making it an ownerless wand?
[20:50] <HeliumHead> no
[20:50] <Aislinn> I'm not sure it's any more secure than Dd's plan would have made it
[20:50] <nimbusxl> Nothing to say you can't own two wands
[20:50] <Iheartprofessorsnape> Nope, but I think it made his old wand "his wand" againn
[20:50] <cbm> I think he still owns it
[20:50] <ProngsPatronus> no, but I think his decision to rebury it with DD will have that effect, once Harry passes on
[20:50] <cloudpic> I suspect that burying it alive was more likely effective in putting it out of comission... like leaving the stone in the forest
[20:50] <Aislinn> the only thing that protects it is that noone knows that it was put back in Dd's tomb
[20:50] <MrMcGonagall> I have to admit that by this point in the story, I was so confused about wandlore and wand allegiance that I could believe just about anything.
[20:50] <HeliumHead> if it had been, DD would have renounced ownership
[20:50] <cbm> I think he owns 4 wands at this point
[20:50] <cloudpic> LOL... Gotta say... leaves the door open for sequels *goes off to iron hands*
[20:51] <MrMcGonagall> good point, helium.
[20:51] <FreedomStar> alright i'm outta here; bye!
[20:51] <cbm> But for the wand to be used again, someone would need to defeat harry and then know where the wand is
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[20:51] <Aislinn> yes, he owns his, the elder wand, and draco's, at the least
[20:51] <ProngsPatronus> I think it is more than just renouncing one's own ownership of the wand
[20:51] <Iheartprofessorsnape> The only people living that know about the wand's location aren't going to say anything and the portraits wouldn't expose its location unless they felt it was the right time and situation
[20:51] <cbm> I think he also now owns Voldemort's orginal
[20:51] <Aislinn> oh, good point
[20:51] <cloudpic> Can he give Draco back his wand and transfer "ownership" or loyalty willingly?
[20:52] <ProngsPatronus> one has to make sure that the wand does not pass by conquest
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[20:52] <HeliumHead> i think that something along those lines could be aranged cloudpic
[20:53] <ProngsPatronus> I think that Draco would have had to choose a new wand, personally
[20:53] <HeliumHead> though it might take a little more than that
[20:53] <cloudpic> I'd like that. That act of generosity
[20:53] <ProngsPatronus> I don't think Draco WOULD ask Harry for his own wand back
[20:53] <MrMcGonagall> I have difficulty buying the idea that someone couldn't disarm Harry and still win the allegiance of the Elder Wand.
[20:53] <cbm> Or he could just give it back and leave draco as a weaker wizard
[20:53] <Iheartprofessorsnape> I think when Harry repaired his old wand it became his wand and he was no longer the owner of the others
[20:53] <cloudpic> Yes, that could be... besides it'd be hard on Draco's pride
[20:53] <HeliumHead> agreed MrM
[20:53] <Aislinn> I don't think so, Iheartprofessorsnape
[20:53] <ProngsPatronus> they could, Mr. M--but they would have to know about the wand, know how to retrieve it, too
[20:54] <Aislinn> I don't think that act would remove his ownership of the others
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[20:54] <MrMcGonagall> We discover in Deathly Hallows that a wizard who is disarmed, whose wand is taken forcibly, loses the allegiance of that wand. At Malfoy Manor, at the Ministry, and in Diagon Alley, we see oppressed wizards who have been reduced to their condition by being deprived of their wands. What does wand ownership say about one’s status in the magical world?
[20:54] <nimbusxl> MrM Aside from the trio who else knew the Elder wand story by the end of the book?
[20:54] <cloudpic> Rather second class citizens.
[20:54] <cbm> The portraits
[20:54] <Aislinn> well, we've known for a while that not being able to possess wands is one of the things that keeps goblins and elves as second class citizens as well.
[20:54] <ProngsPatronus> they were truly the deprived of the WW
[20:54] <cloudpic> I wonder about prisoners in Azkaban? If they have a limited imprisonment... would their wands be held for them?
[20:55] <Aislinn> It would do the same for the wizards so deprived.
[20:55] <ProngsPatronus> I think they would, cloudpic
[20:55] <cloudpic> Yes, and that's something Hermione is working on I'd bet.
[20:55] <ProngsPatronus> at the Ministry
[20:55] <cloudpic> It'd be hard to be rehabilitated in the WW without a wand
[20:55] <nimbusxl> OK Lets step back to the Duelling club or the DA meetings. I'm sure by the end of those everyones wands kept alligence.
[20:55] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> did anyone else think it was harsh of them to snap Hagrid's wand for being expelled/
[20:55] <Aislinn> not having a wand in essence robs them of their magical powers
[20:55] <Aislinn> since they need the wand to focus those powers
[20:56] <Iheartprofessorsnape> that was for sport and learning, not in "real life"
[20:56] <cloudpic> Yes! I did, chocolateisnotforbreakfast
[20:56] <Aislinn> yes, chocolate - quite harsh
[20:56] <ProngsPatronus> someone had died
[20:56] <cloudpic> I suspect it had something to do with his evident mixed blood status?
[20:56] <nimbusxl> The spells were real though
[20:56] <ProngsPatronus> he was lucky not to go to Azkaban for that
[20:56] <cbm> bye, got to go, I am late
[20:56] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> a 13 year old in Azkaban?
[20:56] *** cbm has quit [Bye]
[20:57] <ProngsPatronus> it is the WW
[20:57] <cloudpic> If they truly thought he was the heir of Slytherin... (which I doubt they did) it wasn't harsh enough
[20:57] <cloudpic> more like imprisoning Stan Shunpike
[20:57] <Aislinn> I agree
[20:57] <Aislinn> they needed a scapegoat
[20:57] <ProngsPatronus> that is my own thought--how on Earth could they suspect him of it
[20:57] <Aislinn> and a half breed was convenient
[20:57] <nimbusxl> Back to wand alliegence Why wasn't it affected after Duelling club or Da meets?
[20:57] <ProngsPatronus> yes--they needed to be shown as "doing something"
[20:58] <HeliumHead> and his fascinatrion with "interesting" creatures
[20:58] <Aislinn> maybe because the intent was not permanent, nimbusxl
[20:58] <cloudpic> Perhaps because the wand owner didn't feel "defeated" under those circumstances?
[20:58] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> can an owner pick up their wand again, and have it re-ally?
[20:59] <nimbusxl> I'd say so
[20:59] <Iheartprofessorsnape> well...I'm putting my wand away and heading out to work...have a great night
[20:59] <Iheartprofessorsnape> or day
[20:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> smile by iheart
[20:59] <chocolateisnotforbreakfast> bye
[20:59] *** Iheartprofessorsnape has quit [Bye]
[21:00] <ProngsPatronus> it has been a wonderful topic and chat
[21:00] <Aislinn> yes, fascinating questions, Mr M!
[21:00] <HeliumHead> very very interesting
[21:00] <Aislinn> thanks everyone for coming
[21:00] <MrMcGonagall> You're welcome
[21:00] <nimbusxl> WEll with the time now 2am I'd better retire as well. Sln gach duine. (Bye everyone)
[21:00] <ProngsPatronus> glad y'all could join us!