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Posted by: Narya Dec 23 2006, 10:18 PM

Time to open Part II of this topic ...

You can find Part I of this topic http://www.leakylounge.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1444&view=findpost&p=36075

So ... what do you think of Draco Malfoy in each of the five books from Philosopher's Stone/Sorcerer's Stone through to Order of the Phoenix?

Is he bad? Or is he just misunderstood?

Posted by: I Like Chocolate Frogs Dec 27 2006, 04:35 PM

i think he's neither bad, nor misunderstood

he uses his family name to scare people or to get some followers (grabe and goyle or pansy parkinson)
he's a bully
he's mean to weak students or younger ones (stealing neville's remebrall or sneering whenever snapes makes fun of harry or anyone from griffindor)
but he has no guts
everytime he's in a fight with harry he tries to attack harry when he's not looking (PoA) or when he's not allowed to (CoS-Duel club)
he's easily scared (probably one of the many reasons why he's not a griffindor), in the forbidden forest with harry in book 1, when harry attacks him in hogsmeade with his invisibily cloak and so on...

he's not bad like his dad, he just pretends
but he's a bully and a mean boy

Posted by: luna_lupin7 Dec 27 2006, 05:22 PM

Well, I'm not really sure how to answer, cause my opinion of him obviously changed tremendously after OotP compared to HBP. But, if we're only talking after OotP, I'd say he's bad, not misunderstood. However, there is always redemption, so he shouldn't be called evil.

Posted by: dramarama Dec 27 2006, 07:38 PM

I think that he is "bad" because he is hidding his pain from everyone. For Example, in the 6th book He couldn't kill Dumbledore. If he was as bad as everyone thinks then he would have killed him a long time ago if you know what I mean.

Posted by: jumpingferret Dec 29 2006, 03:09 PM

i think a bit of both(more bad than missunderstood).but i have changed my opinion a lot after reading book 6...he can be a good guy if he wants to...but seeing as voldy is threathening him and his entire familly we probably won't be seeing a lot of good draco esspecially since dumbledore is dead.

Posted by: sinz Dec 30 2006, 03:31 PM

I believe that Draco is extremely misunderstood...yet has quite a bad sense to him as well. We all need to remember that his father and mother are both Death Eaters and his family history all contain a certian amount of darkness never mind pig-headedness.
All Drako really is trying to do is uphold his family name....He is being really weak in the pretendance side yet knows where his loyalty lies. If you look in the fifth book, Drako did not seem too keen in killing Dumbledore and was sceptical about his mision The Dark Lord lay before him.
We all have been there....under pressure and especially peer pressure. So give him a chance and you never know what the last book will bring us!!!!

Posted by: Guardsman Bass Dec 31 2006, 01:15 AM

Draco is what he is: the only son of a very wealthy, important, old wizarding family. On one hand, this means he's inherited all the arrogance and snobbishness associated with this position. He's contemptuous of muggle-borns, snobbish towards the poor and 'blood-traitors' (in this case, the Weasely's are both), and very self-assured. Bullying and dominating his fellow Slytherins is probably a pattern that has been going on for some time, and in Draco's case, is amplified by what JK Rowling called his ability to basically compartmentalize his emotions (which is why he would be an excellent Occlumens). Add on this the fact that House Slytherin is all about manuevering, position, and politics, and a person like Draco, who has money, connections, and power, is naturally awarded high status - status that he then goes on to believe is his right.

On the other hand, he has some positive traits associated with what he is. He is apparently very loyal to his family, which is at least partially the reason why he took a mission to kill Dumbledore even though he must have known that it might very likely involve his death, and probably would involve his death if he failed. He seems to love both his father and his mother, and immediately stands up for them when he perceives them as being insulted. Both at least seem to be strong to overcome a streak of cowardice on his part (which is why he is always accompanied by Crabbe and Goyle, even though they don't really like him, and he doesn't really seem to regard them as much more than his servants).

Also, interestingly enough, when it doesn't affect his image, he appears to be able to express emotions, even to someone like Moaning Myrtle. He's also not really a killer; he may enjoy bullying, but he doesn't actually desire to kill, at least in Dumbledore's case.

Posted by: hpboy13 Dec 31 2006, 02:58 AM

I think he is bad. His bullying is not justifiable. But like many bad people, he eventually got in over his head in HBP.

Posted by: MajorLee Dec 31 2006, 05:53 AM

The Malfoy name is a hard one to live up to. Give him a rest. He didn't want to kill Dumbledore did he?

Posted by: Eleanora Snowmantle Dec 31 2006, 01:11 PM

He tries to live up to the expectations of his father, aswell as having Voldermort on his back.For him to have his dad as a death eater will make Malfoy make himself look anything but a wimp. He puts up a cover of what he feels inside.

Posted by: Guardsman Bass Dec 31 2006, 04:20 PM

He's almost certainly a coward, but a coward with a strong sense of honor and loyalty to his family and family name.

Posted by: DeLaWarre Dec 31 2006, 09:21 PM

I have been rereading the books, and I have noticed that if you read between the lines, not only do I think he might be attracted to Hermione, although he would never admit it, he also seems to yearn to be friends with Harry. I will find key passages to support these assertions, but it is a holiday so I need to celebrate! Happy New Year's Eve!

Posted by: hpltr Jan 2 2007, 09:15 PM

I think he's confused...a confused teen aged boy. I also think he's a coward and is going to go where he feels the power is, but that won't last for long. He has good in him, you saw it on the tower, he was considering DD's offer to go into hiding I believe. DH is going to be where he finds his 15 minutes I think. He, I believe is going to be one of Harry's biggest assests. I also have a feeling he's going to make a huge sacrafice for Harry at some point. Nothing to back me up, just a feeling.

Posted by: etnutter Jan 3 2007, 06:35 AM

I think consciously, he is among the most loathesome slime that ever grew on a dungeon wall. Birds of a feather, flock etc......and Crabbe and Goyle are merely the outward extensions of his every day personality.

My wider theory (related to sorting) is that you are in a specific house at Hogwarts not based on your conscious personality, but on your character - something that is part of your shadow side - the part of you that is not so much who you are, but what you value. The character of Slytherin house is strong deep inside Malfoy. It is not pretty, but it is well represented inside of him - finally - in book 6.

In this respect, Draco is as much Neville's counterpart in the story as he is Harry's. Both of them having a rather cowardly personality, but growing into their rather larger than life "character" as colored by the houses they are in. Neville to be a Griffindor idealist, where Draco is growing into his cunning and ambitious slytherin type of Guardian character.

But Draco's choices at the end of HBP were his only chance, I think. He chose poorly. His cowardice prevented his character from really getting solid footing. It was like he was teetering on the great character he had been developing but instead of truly stepping into this powerful character, he crumbled - he went backwards.

To my thinking, it is this "character" we all have whose job it is to modify our personality - to change us.

On the basis of Draco's "character," then, he could have chosen to kill DD himself and gone one direction, or he could have chosen to abandon the dark side and gone another direction -- both viable possibilities for this new part of himself we were seeing developed in bk 6. Instead, he crumbled back into Draco the sniveling spite-spewing coward. And that will have consequences in Book 7.

He may have one more shot at greatness - for evil or for good - it depends on what happens to his parents now. But barring that, the cowardly ego is in place for the next book.

My prediction, along the cowardly lines, is that even if he shines for some reason in bk 7, he will still end poorly. I suspect that Draco's character will see him take some act that results in his death, but his fear will see him end up as a ghost in the Hogwarts bathrooms crying on Myrtle's shoulder, bragging about his purebloodedness, and being forced to tell everyone who asks about the great Harry Potter...

Posted by: Guardsman Bass Jan 3 2007, 05:22 PM

I don't think he really had a choice. He wasn't going to kill Dumbledore, but then the Death Eaters and Snape came in and took control out of his hands, and now he's back in his Death Eater environment. That chance of escape from death to him and his family (which is what he really wanted in taking the mission, and why he was deciding not to kill Dumbledore) just vanished.

Posted by: etnutter Jan 4 2007, 11:16 PM

Guardsman - Draco had a LONG time to decide before the DE's arrived up there....How long would you have given him?

The "goldfinger" discussion went on for page after page.....the "character" that I refer to in my post that now exists inside him was ready to completely take the helm just as it needed to in that moment.....but he hesitated.....for like....Forever. He sunk away from this powerful character he had developed and stayed stuck as draco the sneery priviliged spiteful cowardly prig....

To make matters worse....he ran for it. I reject the idea that he had no choice.....he picked up the guantlet thrown down by LV and saw his task through right to the point where it was time to choose. He had nothing to prove to anyone anymore with the crosshairs of his wand on DD's chest. It was the moment of decision....of choice.....

If, as Dumbledore says, it is our choices - Draco, for all his abilities and aspirations being actualized during the book - chose poorly. and that choice has , for now, defined him.

I loath him SO!

Posted by: Magicquill Jan 5 2007, 03:28 AM

Draco is someone who is very interested in Dark arts and that peculier pure-blood mania....But still he is a teenage boy..
Therefore he didn't have much knowledge about the demands of the dark world..Following his Father's foot steps he went to serve LV..But only by the end of HBP he gets to know that it is not very easy to be with VL...He is not prepared to be a DE...I But I don't think he is a coward..
I always loathed Draco..But after reading HBP, I felt really sorry for him...I dont know what will become of him in the 7th book.

Posted by: Crookshanks_Rocks Jan 5 2007, 11:29 AM

Who knows? I mean JK has done some pretty amazing things in thesse books.
I don't think he will ever be 'good'. He will always be loyal to his father. Or maybe not? I hate it when I second guess myself!

Posted by: Vestalon Jan 5 2007, 10:20 PM

First of all, I didn't read Part I of this topic so maybe this has already been said.

I think Draco is a very interesting character. He is definitively not a very nice guy. He tries to impress everyone at the expense of others. Reminds me a bit of Sirius Black who, together with James Potter, did more or less the same when he was young. Both (Draco and Sirius) are heirs to an old an very much respected family in the magical world. Both were raised in an atmosphere of exaggerated pride (pure-blood) and hate towards muggles and muggle-born. But here comes the difference. Sirius decided not to follow the wrong path of his familiy. He decided to do the right thing, even against his own blood. The choices we make are important - remember?
I think it's not too late for Draco to change. Think of Regulus Black.
Hmmm...guess it's never too late to realize how wrong you've been in the past. All you need is someone or something that opens your eyes. Maybe the death of Dumbledore was exactly that for Draco - a small glimpse into the real world of the DE.

Posted by: hello i'm welsh Jan 6 2007, 05:02 PM

So… has anyone ever thought the prophecy might be about Draco?...

Posted by: Buckbeak Jan 6 2007, 05:16 PM

I think that Draco is thought of as evil, horrible, and on the dark side. But eventhough he has been a jerk towards the trio, I still think that he won't be able to become a DE. As we saw in HBP, he just didn't have the heart/guts for killing someone. I think that in the end, he will try to turn on LV, but still not join Harry, because Harry put his father in jail. I think that we will see a side of Draco Malfoy that will surprise all of us.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 16 2007, 01:44 PM

I'm a huge Draco Malfoy fan, and I have been from the moment we meet him in Madam Malkin's Robes Shop in Sorcerors Stone. He's really the fictional version of myself, except I'm a girl and I'm not a wizard, but other than that we are basically the same.

I've always been misunderstood because of how I acted. People think I'm just plan mean because of my attitude, when in reality I use the attitude as a way to protect myself. I believe that is why Draco has such a bad attitude himself. He uses it to protect himself, because if you have an attitude it makes you this tough sort of person. His attitude is the only thing that keeps him going. If you strip it away he's a weak, cowardly kid who mouths off about things that he hasn't comprehended yet. To Draco, his attitude is the only thing that makes him different from alot of other people, except for his pureblood leagacy and his money. Its really the only thing that is really his. His blood isn't something that really has any stance in school, and his money doesn't have the same kind of influence at school that his attitude does.

Draco is misunderstood. He doesn't really want to be like his father, and the problem with him in the first five books is that he hasn't really realized what it is he really wants. He's always had his decisions made for him, he's never been able to decide what he wants for himself. But in HBP, we see that he's starting to come into his own. He's really starting to figure out who he is, and he's realized that he isn't cut out to be like his father. He's becoming his own person, he's no longer the carbon copy of his father that we've seen throughtout the first five books.

Posted by: candyf66 Jan 16 2007, 07:35 PM

Draco is the way he is because he's looking for his fathers love and acceptance which he can't seem to get in the books that put him with his father his father is mean and nasty to him. So unlike Harry who had people mean and nasty to him and over came it Draco is looking and can't get the ONE person he wants to love him

Posted by: Valley Jan 16 2007, 08:04 PM

I think he's both bad and misunderstood - but not so bad that he's beyond redemption. Dumbledore says that it is a person's choices, not how they're born, that makes them who they are. Draco was born into an evil family, yet he can still choose to be good. I'm fairly sure that either he will save Harry's life or Harry will save his at some point, and that will be the defining moment.

Posted by: kaelgirl Jan 16 2007, 08:09 PM

At first, I had the impression that Draco was bad, but he's not bad in a LV sort of way. He's just there to give all muggleborns a hard time and to give Harry a hard time. But I think that because he couldn't kill Dumbledore proved that even though he wants to be bad, he can't.

He could be misunderstood, but I think he has more of a bad-boy attitude and everyone knows it. But he's not bad in a "I'm going to kill all non-pure blood people" like LV. He's just a bit stuck up. I hope he doesn't turn REALLY bad in DH.

Posted by: ~Ginevra Potter~ Jan 17 2007, 10:17 PM

I completely agree with your analysis of Draco's character, Snapes_Angel. I think Draco is misunderstood in the sense that he uses his 'bad boy' attitude to guard himself. He's definitely not the 'heart on the sleeve' type of guy, which can be a very good thing because like JKR said, it's Draco's ability to suppress certain sympathic, compassionate emotions that enables him to be so successful in Occulemency. Something Harry fails at.

Hopefully, Draco won't disappoint us in DH. His experiences in Half Blood Prince should have taught him that 'walking the talk' is a lot harder than he anticipated initially. I have a feeling that Dumbledore planted a seed in his head about joining the light side, and if maybe presented with the choice to help them in DH, I pray he takes it.

I have a question though. What does everyone think the motive was for Draco offering Harry a hand in friendship first year? Do you guys think it was a personal choice or maybe a nudge from his father? It seemed to me that Draco's pride was very much hurt by Harry's rejection of him, which does lead me to believe that it was a personal decision to want to be friends with Harry.

Posted by: candyf66 Jan 17 2007, 10:41 PM

[/color][color=#FF6600]to offer Harry a hand in friendship hmmmm Draco didn't know who Harry was in the drss robe shop that boy (Draco) was someone looking for friendship a buddy on the train to HW that boy (Draco) was looking to impress his father something he's never been able to do no matter how hard he tries.

Posted by: qtpatutie432 Jan 17 2007, 10:50 PM

Throughout all of the books I've thought of Draco as just another bully....tough on the outside, soft on the inside. I think he still is. I definitely don't think he's bad. I think he wants to be bad, but really can't be. He wants to be his father, out of his need for Lucius's acceptance and love (as candyf66 stated), but I don't think his real personality matches up with the evil and hatred necessary to be a death eater and kill wizards like Dumbledore. Come to think of it, I think he wants to be misunderstood - he knows he's really not a bad, mean-spirited person, but doesn't want anyone else to know. If that makes sense.

I think it was both a personal choice and a HUGE nudge from his father. To reiterate, I think he definitely wanted acceptance from his father, especially being as young as he was in the first book (not that he's THAT much more mature in HBP), and would do anything to do so. He seemed brainwashed by his father, and has seemed so for the entire series.

Maybe he disappeared at the end of HBP because he came out of the "brainwash" trance and realized that's not who he really wanted to be. Or maybe the thought of LV coming after him for not killing Dumbledore scared the crap out of him. Either way, I think a transformation is definitely in order for this "bad boy" in DH. Perhaps he will have to be the one to do in his own father....out of love.

Posted by: candyf66 Jan 17 2007, 11:06 PM

I think in some way he had a crush on hermionee untill he found out she was muggle born
he too thought ginny was pretty but she's a muggle lover
With his father around he can't be friends with or date anyone that's not pure so he had to be mean and spiteful. Now in the last book he's going to confront his father and say look the man I was to kill showed me more love and concern in a few min. then you've showed me in 17 years your wrong about LV and in the end Draco will be the one person who makes the houses unite complete.

Posted by: Shard Jan 18 2007, 01:15 AM

You know before HBP I would have said yes Draco will be a Death eater like his father before him. That sounded farmiliar... Anyways we see him bawling his eyes out to a muggleborn ghost no less and NOT to his precious Pureblood cronies or Pansy. What gives? Does this mean Draco has a chance at redemption? Was his hesitation over killing DD a true sign of his heart not in being a Death Eater or was this merely a stumble on his way to becoming the Death Eater that would make his father proud??

Posted by: aromal Jan 18 2007, 03:43 AM

ya.malfoy is just misunderstoos.he is just jealous of harry and maybe his father keeps pestering him because of his continues losings in quidditch.he is arrogant-no doubt-but i think he has a double charector.i think JKR will justify his charecter in book 7.also he does'nt kill dumbledore in HBP.he just taunts harry,ron and hermione because
1.harry refused his friendship
2.he is truly jealous of harry as he takes away all the fame and almost everytime mayfoy loses to him
3.ron gets taunted as he is poor weasly to draco but still has manged to make friends with famous potter
4.maybe he is jealous of hermione because of her intelligence or he simply hates muggles
I DO HOPE JKR PROPERLY JUSTIFIES HIS CHARECTER IN BOOK 7.I LIKE IT AT TIMES.........

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 18 2007, 08:59 AM

I agree. Harry was raised with a family that treated him like scum; they hated him and all he represented, but he chose to rise above that. He didn't let himself turn into a person that was just like his family, because he didn't care what his family thought of him. Draco, on the other hand, has grown up wanting to make his father proud. He wanted his father to finally show him the love that he craved, but no matter what he did it was never enough. He's grown up looking for acceptance, whereas Harry was indifferent as to what his family thought of him.

Harry chose very early in life to be a good person, and to make the best choices he could. Draco chose very early in life to follow everything his parents told him. In his quest for acceptance from his father, he chose to parrot around everything his father told him about muggle-borns and about how even half-bloods are inferior to purebloods. He never thought to stop and think about utterly ridiculous those beliefs were because he was too busy trying to gain his fathers love.

In HBP, Draco is becoming his own person and he's realizing that his fathers beliefs were wrong and he's realizing that all these years he has been so busy trying to make his father proud that he's become just like him almost. Draco prides himself on being a person that isn't the same as anyone else, he wants be different from everyone else, but he's come to realize that even though thats what he wants, that he's been turning into his father with every insult he throws. Draco has made some bad choices in his short life, but in HBP we saw that he is slowly making the right choices. The bad choice would have been to have gone ahead and killed Albus. But he chose the right choice: He didn't follow through with his task, even though Voldemort had threatened to kill him and his parents. Draco has always thought that his life was more important than everyone elses, and if he had still believed that in HBP he wouldn't have let Albus live when his own life was a stake.

Posted by: Shard Jan 18 2007, 01:16 PM

I don't know that Draco nessarly believe's his father's in the wrong, more likely that he feels LV's way is what he is not liking. Lucius was always about subtly pulling the strings until you got what you wanted, LV is more the geurilla warfare type. Either way though Draco didn't seem to be able to stomach the thought of actually killing a person. Draco was able to talk the talk but it doesn't seem he can walk the walk. It remains to e seen if Draco will really side with Harry and the Order or if he will side with LV.

Though I still think even if he sides with Harry he's still going to be the same arrogant Draco he usualy is.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 18 2007, 01:50 PM

I see what you're saying, but considering Lucius is following Voldemort and doing what is asked of him doesn't that sort of mean that Lucius likes the way Voldemort is doing things? That's what it means to me, and with that view of things it means that if Draco doesn't like how Voldemort is handling things that it also means Draco doesn't like how his father is handling things. Lucius believes that Voldemorts view is right and he believes that Voldemort is handling things the way they are supposed to be handled. That being said, Lucius has fed those same beliefs to Draco, so if Draco believes Voldemort is going about it wrong that means he believes his father is in the wrong as well.

Posted by: mel7896 Jan 18 2007, 02:00 PM

i think draco malfoy is misunderstood by is parents because they are bad so they expect him to bad , i think draco will help harry potter in the end and plus they are nearly cousin i think can some plese tell if draco is realed to harry potter thanks mel7896

Posted by: candyf66 Jan 18 2007, 06:59 PM

Look at the Malfoy's a pure blood wizarding family for generations (we think) Lucius is practicing what he was taught etc.... Than here comes someone like LV yeahhhhh someone who understands what it should mean to be a pure blood wizard Lucius will do what he has to, to keep the power and gain more now he's thinking he's making his own dad proud. Then comes Draco he knows how his dad is butttt only to a point (remember when LV disapeered lucius said oh no I was under a curse and never tried to find LV) so now lucius has to be even badder oopps damn he got caught, Poor Draco is well my Dad I have to do this to save him or LV is going to kill him. This is when he realizes that his dad was full of it and LV way is not the way. Yes Draco will still be a "I'm better then you" type of person but now he's seen what Hate, and Death can do. Harry had to loose Sirius to realize what LV is capable of now Draco for the first time is seeing what LV is capable of. and he don't like it. He's scared for not just himself but his mother and father. I think once again it will be Draco that stands with Harry to make the Houses United and bring LV down and then I think he will walk away from his family.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 19 2007, 10:03 AM

I agree with you completely. In OOTP, The Sorting Hat says:
"For our Hogwarts is in danger
From external, deadly foes
And we must unite inside her
Or we;ll crumble from within."

Now Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, and Ravenclaw are friendly with each other; they are already united, but Slytherin is the house that causes the problems. Draco is the leader of the Slytherin students, and if he was to join forces with Harry its quite possible that the other Slytherin students would follow his lead. Considering what the Sorting Hat says about the houses uniting and the fact that Draco is the leader of the 'problem' house, I believe that in the end Draco will be the one that brings all the houses together and ends the house rivalry.

Draco is the type of person who wants to be recognized for doing something great, which is why he's so eager to be like his father because he believes that his father and Voldemort are doing the greatest thing possible, but the greatest thing that Draco could do is end a rivalry between the Hogwarts houses that has been going on for thousands of years. He would finally be recognized for doing something great, for doing something that nobody else has been able to do. I believe it would also help to being something good to the Malfoy name as well.

Posted by: Shard Jan 19 2007, 11:00 AM

While I do think that the Hogwarts houses need to be united I am not sure Draco will do the uniting. I do feel that Draco may work with Harry but apart from that not promote wholeness of Hogwarts. I think it would take an Adult Slytherin to do that, unless Draco and every else does return to Hogwarts as stutdents. That's why I feel Slughorn as head of Slytherin will be a better uniter.

HOwever there is alot Draco can do to help Harry, Harry needs inside people to help him to get to Nagini for instance.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 19 2007, 02:56 PM

I agree that Draco would be a big help for Harry because he does have a dark mark, but the only issue I have with that is: Is Draco really courageous enough or strong enough to be able to stay with Voldemort while he's helping Harry? Draco is a coward, as we've seen a bunch of times, so how do we know that he has enough courage to defy Voldemort by helping Harry, while still keeping his over by pretending to follow Voldemort?

I'm a huge Draco fan, and I firmly believe he will turn to the Order and that he will survive the war, but I don't believe Draco would be willing to risk getting exposed like that by staying with Voldemort. Even Severus, who is a brillant Occulumens can't always keep his shields up; so that means that Draco, who isn't as skilled at it, wouldn't be able to keep his shields up constantly. That could be a problem. If he has all this information about the Order and if he is thinking about how he's betraying Voldemort right under his nose , and then Voldemort happens to use Legilimency on him at the moment when his shields are down, he'd be in big trouble. Voldemort would torture him and then kill him, or he could torture him and then use him to betray the Order. If Draco refused to betray the Order openly, Voldemort could use the Imperius curse and make him do it involuntarily. No matter how you look at it Draco would be in trouble as would the Order.

Posted by: Shard Jan 19 2007, 03:38 PM

It is true Draco has been an coward in the past, with HBP he showed a bravery for his family. Lucius and Narcissa won't be in any less danger, probably more so. I think if Draco has risked himself for his parents he will do so again.

Can he keep up pretenses in front of Voldemort? Well if he can keep Snape out, he *might* be able to keep Voldemort out, that is if LV doesn't torture Draco which he probably will. Draco's fate still hangs in the air I think as we will see what he can do because I think he will try to keep his family safe, that's at least one positive thing I can say about Draco.

I just find it funny that your a Draco Fan and I'm a Draco hater lol

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 22 2007, 08:05 AM

You do make some good points Shard. It is possible that since Draco has been able to keep Severus out of his mind, that he'll also be able to keep Voldemort out of his mind. He'll need to keep his strength up, and he'll need to make sure that he's continuously doing Occulumency though, just so Voldemort is never able to access his mind by surprise when he's around him.

I also find it funny that we are on opposite sides od the Draco fence, and yet my post was against him whereas your post was the positive one lol!

Posted by: Shard Jan 22 2007, 08:47 AM

I agree Draco is going to have to really be on his guard alright, I think that's part of the suspense though don't you? Where did he go? Has he faced LV yet? Will LV kill him outright or will he be able to save some grace with the fact he got DE into Hogwarts? Ooo I'm unfogging bad me!

It is interesting as someone who doesn't like Draco has to admit that Jo has set up the possiblity for Draco to redeem himself. That bathroom scene with Mrytle was pretty touching there as was his hesitation to kill Albus. I still think however that he will be the same arrogant individual he always was and I'm not sure he'd loose his predjudices against non-purebloods. I also think he will always be loyal to his family, I think that's one positive trait he'll never lose.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Jan 22 2007, 09:18 AM

I agree that its all part of the suspense. I'm hoping that Voldemort will atleast see that something good came out of the whole thing in the end of HBP. Even though Draco wasn't the one that killed Albus, he should just be happy that someone finished him off; and he should acknowledge the fact that Draco, a 16 year old boy, was able to get Death Eaters into the castle which has always been said was impossible. That should count for something, but considering its Voldemort we're talking about, I'm not sure how much lenancy Draco will receive.

I believe that Draco will always be the same type of person he has always been, but I do believe that after everything is said and done, and he's dealt with everything that is happening to him during the war, that he'll be less likely to spout insults everytime he opens his mouth. With everything thats happening to him, he will finally get to see what its like the for muggle-borns who are being targeted by Voldemort. He'll learn to give them more credit than he has before, but he won't completely stop being who he's always been. It'll still be there, but in a lesser manner than usual.

Posted by: candyf66 Jan 22 2007, 02:27 PM

Draco had to of met LV in order to get his death mark and it was LV who tried to get him to fail with getting the DE into hogwarts. In HBP Draco was in the bathroom with Myrtle crying "if I fail he will kill me" he didn't say "he will kill my parents" Draco was worried about himself I do think however he will help in the end but as you said remain a nasty boy.

Posted by: Horcruxes Feb 3 2007, 07:17 PM

i think Draco will come to the good side. he almost did in HBP.

i think he'll come to the good side, but voldemort will kill him because of that.
or maybe draco will just help harry defeat him.

Posted by: candyf66 Feb 3 2007, 07:55 PM

That's what I've said Draco will be the one who completes the houses together as one

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Feb 5 2007, 09:00 AM

I mentioned that as well. The sorting hat has been mentioning lately that the houses need to unite in order for them to stand against whats ahead, and the only houses that really have issues with each other is Gryffindor and Slytherin. Harry is sort of the unoffical leader of the Gryffindor house, and Draco is the leader of Slytherin House. The only way that those houses would be united was if the leaders of said houses united with each other. The other house members won't even consider uniting with the other unless their leaders set an example.

Harry and Draco have had the most important 'relationship' out of everyone in their houses, so it's logical that they are the ones who will unite them.

Posted by: elf/witch Feb 6 2007, 11:41 AM

i am a huge draco fan and dracos fother lucius fans less to him then draco,
he may be good i hart,we will soon know. COSE BOOK 7 IS COMING YES!!
soon vary soon

Posted by: CindyCindy Feb 6 2007, 08:08 PM

He is a piece of work but I think he'll show true in the end.

At least I hope he does. He and his family will play some part that might be important for book 7. He won't be like Trio good but I'm hoping he helps the Trio and Company to defeat Voldemort be it information or magical assistance.

Posted by: manying Feb 6 2007, 08:19 PM

...Books 1-5, made me hate him like i hated our neighbor's dog across the street....I pitied him in Book 6...He doesn't have a choice but to protect his family <or it's just my feeling>, but i really hate him, so better vanish in Book 7 <which i doubt would be possibe....just wishing...>....

Posted by: bettygranger Feb 7 2007, 04:50 AM

i think that he is a good boy ,didn´t he cry in the bathroom? he had feelings, he is suffering, anyway he is so lovely, and potter is so... anyway i also think as Snape that Potter is quite selfish.

Loving Draco.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Feb 7 2007, 09:10 AM

Draco is just misunderstood, as most bullies are. In the first five books, we never see him show any emotion except for anger or glee (when Harry gets in trouble). Then, in HBP, we see that he does indeed have emotions and feelings. We see that he loves his family, and that he's afraid that if he doesn't get his task accomplished that they'll be killed.

Draco has been raised a certain way, and thats all he knows. Nobody has ever tried to get to know the real Draco. They all judge him on what they see and how he acts, but as the saying goes: looks can be deceiving!

Draco has put up a facade, one which he has been taught to put up ever since he could walk. Harry may have been able to reach the part of Draco that's always hidden if he had taken the chance. Harry and Ron are willing to befriend Hermione after the incident with the troll, even though she's extremely annoying. They see her as annoying and bossy, but once they get to know her they see that she's not as bad as they thought. It's quite possible that that's the same case with Draco. Somebody just needed to take a chance and get to know him. The 'friends' that Draco has, don't really know him. Their more his lackeys than real friends. I think if Draco had atleast one true friend, who really knew him, that he'd be different that he is.

Posted by: weasleyismyking15 Feb 7 2007, 07:16 PM

I do think there are some misunderstandings in every character, especially Snape and Draco, but I don't think he has a heart of gold, no matter what his upbringing was. True, Lucius and Narcissa pretty much beat into his head to hate those of unpure status, but that doesn't excuse his cruel and vindicative antics towards the other students at Hogwarts. Jo, at the HCG reading over the summer, pretty much said that redemeption for Draco is rare, and most people. She doesn't shot down that theory, but she can't understand why so many girls (me as well) love him so much!!!!

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Feb 8 2007, 09:08 AM

I remember her commenting on the fact that she can't understand why so many girls love him so much, and I'm among the many girls that love him . I'm very curious as to why she can't understand it. Is it because she is going to have him turn out to be as evil as his father in DH's, or is it because she is going to have him turn out to be on the Order's side in the end, and she wanted people to be surprised by that revelation? Maybe she was hoping that everyone would hate his character, and then in the end she would have him turn out to be a good guy, which would shock everyone because we all would have thought he was going to turn out to be his father. But now that she knows that a lot of girls like his character, it isn't going to be much of a shock factor that she had wanted it to be.

Posted by: weasleyismyking15 Feb 8 2007, 09:23 PM

I don't know though, maybe Draco will do something for Harry, but he pretty much is screwed either way! It wouldn't shock people, it would just seem unrealistic, because people don't change that easily. I also read another quote from her about Snape, (not from the reading over the summer) and how she couldn't understand why so many women liked him as well, but that's another story for another thread!

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Feb 9 2007, 07:55 AM

I agree that people don't change that easily, but don't forget that Draco's character changed rapidly in HBP. At the end of OOTP, Draco was his arrogant, cruel self, who was threatening to kill Harry. Then in HBP, he does a complete 180! Instead of being the cold, cruel boy we've gotten used too, he's a frightened boy, who hides out in bathrooms crying his eyes out (to a muggle-born witch, at that!!).

I don't really think there is a lot to change with his character. The person we saw in HBP is the real Draco Malfoy. In the earlier books, he's been hiding his true self because lets face it: if people knew the Prince of Slytherin had a heart, and knew that he didn't want to be like his father, it wouldn't go over so well. Draco had an image to live up to, and even though he portrayed that image very well, his true self was never too far below the surface. I honestly don't think it's unrealistic for him to turn good, and that's because I don't really see much that has to change for him to do it. Now that he's seen what being a Death Eater entails, I believe that we are going to continue to see the Draco Malfoy that we were shown in HBP.

Posted by: Sweety Feb 9 2007, 08:03 AM

he is not sure is he bad or is he good, he is not an angel and he's not a devil. his dad has a great influence on him. he did not want to kill DD, and he did call hermione Mudblood and that certanly is not good

Posted by: obsessedWithSnape Feb 9 2007, 08:42 AM

I don't think the turnabout was that big (if there was a turnabout). Draco was still arrogant, cruel, and threatening to kill Harry (remember that scene at the Hogwarts Express, or casting the Cruciatus at Harry in the bathroom). And he's been a bit of a coward from the beginning (ok, maybe coward's a bit strong...). PS, when Draco, Harry, Ron and Neville have detention in the forest, is just one example.

Furthermore, I think everyone would be frightened, if they had a task like 'kill DD' to complete, and their parents were threatened. He just broke down from the stress of it all.


Where does it say that Draco doesn't want to be like his father anymore? Imo, he still does. One of the things that's keeping him going during HBP, is the thought of avenging his father. Again, I refer to his conversation with Harry on the train.
Daddy's still Draco's big hero. So is Auntie Bellatrix.

At the Tower scene we do see that Draco doesn't have what it takes to be a vicious Death Eater. He's still innocent. Most of his cruel, cold, Lucius-ish behaviour is indeed a mask, a front. But this isn't a change in his behaviour, really, as it has always been there. Draco's always been his own person underneath. He is only really going to change if he notices this himself, which until now, he hasn't. We have, but he hasn't - ok, maybe he has, after the whole DD-dying-thingy, but we haven't seen him acknowledge this yet. Maybe it will come in DH, maybe not.



I don't think Draco will ever really be 'good'. He might decide after HBP that he doesn't really want to be like his aunt and father, but take a more moderate road. Become a bit more like his mother, instead of his father.
I don't ever see him dropping the Pureblood views, however. Or stop being sneaky. Or start to care for others a bit more. The only thing I see him changing, is becoming a murdering, torturing,... etc. Death Eater. Because he's not that cruel.

Posted by: Priya Ashok Feb 10 2007, 01:35 AM

Draco Malfoy, I think is neither bad or misunderstood. Well, maybe a little bad as he is portrayed as pretty nasty. But if you take his background he hardly has any choice as he has none to guide him and make him see the error of his ways and it did not help the fact that he was in Slytherin which added more fuel to this type of thinking rather than quell them. Both his parents are from the Dark Families which also meant friends from the same type of association as well. It is only in HBP that he sees that working for Voldemort is not a piece of cake and nor is it a priveledge. Also Dumbledore thought that he could be saved which makes me think that there could be some good in him. It was proved when he could not kill Dumbledore and that he was willing to undertake a task of killing Dumbledore just to save his parents.

Posted by: AmyThePenguin Feb 10 2007, 08:53 AM

I don't think he is really evil, I think he is just trying to live up to expectations and being like his father.

But inside I bet he's a sweet lad!

Posted by: Narya Feb 10 2007, 10:17 PM

I think the Draco we see in HBP is the sum of his parts - in other words, he's Harry's peer - almost a man - yet he has no maturity and has none of the qualities which make him a nice person to know. Draco is a spoiled brat; from JKR's own interviews, we know that he is a "bigot and a bully," and he has made his choices ... and look where they have got him. He lacks courage, and has an inherent cruel streak which makes him not only a truly nasty character, but also a disturbing one.

From the moment we meet Draco in PS/SS, we can gauge what sort of boy he is. He has a tendency to pick on those who are weaker - or so he thinks - than himself, and lacks the ability to do anything without his thuggish cronies in tow. He fears any independent thought, so Crabbe and Goyle suit him perfectly because they don't provide any challenge to him ... as a contrast, look at the relationship which Harry has with Ron and Hermione. Both of them challenge him, and he challenges them in his turn - the mark of a true friendship. Draco has no real friends. The really vile aspect of Draco's character surfaces in HBP, when he smashes Harry's nose at a time when Harry is completely defenceless. As I've mentioned previously in another thread, this shows Draco up for what he is - he's a coward. He ran from the faceless shape (which turned out to be LV/Quirrell) in the Forbidden Forest in PS/SS, and has been metaphorically running ever since. He's a boy who is on the cusp of maturity, and he is all the man he'll ever be, which is more telling than anything else. Nothing in Draco's personality fits him for the challenges of the world beyond Hogwarts, as we shall see.

Posted by: Nevermore Feb 11 2007, 09:54 AM

Narya, I wholeheartedly agree which is why I believe he will go into hiding with his mother. He doesn't have enough courage to fight - neither for the DEs nor the Order. He was ruled by fear throughout HBP and most of his confrontations with Harry were when Harry's back was turned or when he had been weakened in some way. Even as far back as PS/SS, we see that he is incapable of a "fair fight". When he is challenged by Harry on broomsticks and realizes he has no one to help him, he runs away from it (still saving face) by throwing Neville's Remembrall.

Posted by: beba7672 Mar 22 2007, 02:46 PM

When Draco tries to use an unforgivable curse on Harry he really doesnt get to finish it because Harry hit him with one first. Then later on in the book when Draco is supposed to kill DD he seems afraid and uncertain.

Do you think that Draco could actually perform an unforgivable on someone? Both times we could have seen either-or hes been over ridden by someone else. Remember Bella said that you have to actually mean it and want to do it. You have to have it in you to do it. So with that being said.....

Do you think Draco had it in him to do an unforgivable?

*edited for clarity*

Posted by: You_wont_know_who Mar 22 2007, 02:54 PM

As this post discussed the events from the HBP its place is in the Great Wizarding Events forum.
Mobilithreadus!

LL mod
You_wont_know_who

Posted by: kwiki Mar 22 2007, 03:24 PM

I do not think that Draco will be able to an unforgivable curse because he is a wimp. He tried to do the Avada Kadavra curse on DD, but Snape had to do it for him. Draco is someone who is bark is bigger than his bite.

Posted by: BirdyKnits Mar 22 2007, 04:04 PM

Well Draco performed the Imperius Curse very well on Madam Rosmerta--so he got that one down pretty good. I think if he had managed to finish the Cruciatus Curse before Harry hexed him, I think Harry would definitely have suffered greatly. We've seen Malfoy gleefully verbally torture Harry, Hermione, Ron and Neville...so using the Cruciatus Curse isn't that much of a stretch.

But I don't think it makes him a wimp that he can't use the Killing curse...like it's been said you have to mean to kill and there' s a great deal of hatred and a certain amount of disassociation involved. To kill someone is to deny their humanity. It's to say you don't mean anything to me--you are less than me. And Malfoy just couldn't do that to Dumbledore. No matter what he's said and done--Dumbledore does mean something to Malfoy--even if it's just as a fellow human being.

A truly sick individual has be able to perform this vile curse.

Posted by: Catlover Mar 22 2007, 04:32 PM

I definatly think that Draco would have finished the curse. He cerainly hates Harry enough. Killing someone is different though. As BirdyKnits said, you'd have to be a really sick person to kill.

Posted by: DolphinDrummer Mar 22 2007, 05:09 PM

Draco couldn't kill Dumbledore when he had the chance ... perhaps that's because Dumbledore is much older than Draco ... but Harry is about the same age as Draco ... so maybe Draco would not hesitate to kill Harry.

Posted by: sonnenschein Mar 22 2007, 09:48 PM

I agree with the concept that Draco could not perform the AK simply because he lacks the wherewithal to accomplish it. He's a bully to others because his father is a bully to him, I'm quite certain. The cruciatus curse is right up his alley. However, Draco is not a born killer.

Posted by: IWishIWasntAMuggle Mar 23 2007, 03:17 AM

He obviously can use the Imperius Curse, as was said earlier and I think he would have been able to torture Harry- but I don't think he's ready for AK.

I hope he never will be.

He is how he is from being raised that way, he's a somewhat tortured child. Lucius obviously is not the type to show him much mercy and I honestly think that if Lucius heard that Lord Voldemort wanted Draco killed he would have the attitude that says "If the Dark Lord thinks that is the right choice, then it is the right choice!" Because Lucius Malfoy is a seriously evil and demented person.

I do not think that is the case with Draco however. I think he fears it more than he respects it, and that's why I think he could not use the AK on Dumbledore. It would be going darker than he wanted to go, not to mention he now sees how evil LV really is and I don't think he likes it at all.

Whether or not he would be able to kill Harry if such a scenario was chosen- I don't know. But, I doubt it. I don't think that he would get the same kind of joy feeling from killing Harry that he does picking on him or even just causing him pain.

He's not a killer.
Even Dumbledore could see it.

Posted by: weasleyismyking15 Mar 23 2007, 03:20 AM

Draco couldn't cast an unforgivable if his life depended on it! Maybe if he worked himself into a frenzied state of hatred he could kill someone, but I seriously doubt that he hates anyone enough to kill them. I think he secrectly would like to hang out with Harry and co. because when we see him with his father, he is constantly blattering on about Harry this and Harry that. Even his father gets suspcious!

Posted by: Sweety Mar 23 2007, 05:03 AM

To use an unforgivable curse you have to mean it, you have to feel the hateness. We are not sure that Draco used an unforgivable aginst Rosmeta. If he could finish the curse before Harry attaced him Harry would suffer cause Draco hates him. But he couldn't do the AK on DD cause DD didn't do anything wrong to Draco. He isn't a killer, to bad that Lv couldn't see it, DD could see that Draco isn't a killer

Posted by: BookishPhoenix Mar 23 2007, 10:31 AM

There's a big difference between bullying others, threatening others, hurting others--and killing another human being. Draco is very good at the three former things--bullying others (be it first years, Harry, or even Rosmerta--because the Imperius Curse is just a really powerful bout of bullying where the bullied doesn't have a chance to refuse); threatening others (obvious); and hurting others (be it breaking Harry's nose, taunting Ron about his family and hurting him emotionally, or trying to use the Cruciatus Curse on Harry). But do I think that he has it in him to utterly and irrevocably destroy another person--no. There's a big gap between temporary power trips (that bullying and hurting are) and permanent actions with very real consequences (which killing would be).

Posted by: BirdyKnits Mar 23 2007, 11:15 AM

Draco admitted he used the Imperius Curse on Rosmerta (unless Rosmerta IS a DE as well) and an Imperius Curse IS an unforgivable curse. It may not have the horror and permanence that the Killing Curse does, but it is a vile thing to take away some one's free well, their free agency.

Remember the Killing Curse is only one of three Unforgivable Curses. To quote Mad Eye as the impostor, but I am sure we can take his word for it. As he himself knows as he was serving it.

I don't think you have to feel hatred for each curse. You need intent--serious focused intent.

In the Cruciatus, you must enjoy the pain of others, truly relish it. That is sick. No matter how you put it...it's demented. I am sure the pain is worse the more vile the person is. I think a lot of focus must be used in this spell--you don't just watch the pain happen--your intent and mind causes the pain and it's intensity. It's use gives you a life sentence, because you can't accidentally use the curse; you must have serious intent and be a truly sick individual that needs to be locked up.

The Imperius Curse, you must want the dominion over the person you're cursing. You must decide that their will is less important than yours. In my opinion, stripping someone of their free agency is a very serious crime. This is what makes us human; what makes us different from animals. It is enslavement in the worst sense of the word. It makes it easy to understand why this also deserves a life sentence.

(I discussed this in my last post) The Killing Curse, you must deny your victim their humanity--disassociating your self from their status as fellow human being. You see the as less than you...less important, less human. You deny their right to life. Hatred I am sure helps this along...as it's the opposite of love. But in LV case (if I may make a tangent) he is truly incapable of true hatred as he can't love and to hate you also must love--I believe he uses pure disassociation..as a psychopath he truly does see everyone else around him as LESS than him--in all manner of things.

Perhaps, hatred can enter into it, as a vehicle toward the act in each of these curses, but I am not sure it is the only vehicle.

As others have said, Malfoy has shown himself capable of the Curciatus and the Imperius not using his wand, but in how he treats others around him. He is always bossing Crabbe and Goyle around (they seem lost with out his direction). He verbal tortures (as many know sticks and stones CAN break your bones) his enemies, never mind stomping on Harry's nose and then laughing about it.

This is really a great discussion!!

Posted by: Oryx Mar 23 2007, 11:37 AM

We saw what happened when Harry tried the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix - he could not sustain it. We also saw what happened with the sectumsempra (not technically unforgivable, but quite harsh) - Harry regreted it the second he saw what it really did. IMO Harry wanted to hurt Bellatrix, but the moment he saw the effect of what he was doing he lost the will to keep doing it, so the Curse wore off very shortly. To cast an effective Cruciatus Curse one must be the type who is not deterred by seeing the reaction of the victim to the pain one caused. Which translates to Bellatrix's statement about enjoying causing pain.


I think there are more paths to casting an effective Killing Curse. I think being able to rationalize that the intended victim is better dead than alive would work as well for some people. And for very rare few, even being able to rationalize that the overall situation would be better if the intended victim died. But it would require an immense level of control of one's emotions.

Posted by: *ellen marine* Mar 23 2007, 11:49 AM

I think - had Draco succeeded in getting the words out - that his attempt at a Cruciatus curse on Harry would have failed, just - as Oryx just pointed out - Harry's curse failed against Bellatrix. I don't think Draco hates Harry more than Harry hated Bellatrix.. Bellatrix had just killed Sirius, after all. I think the whole scene (Harry and Draco in Moaning Myrtle's bathroom) was carefully engineered by Jo so as to disallow Draco from getting the words out in full.. as it would most certainly have betrayed his true feelings if we'd seen him try to curse Harry and fail... and his inability to curse Dumbledore on the Astronomy Tower would have been a lot more predictable as a result.

I'm hoping that Draco is going to be redeemed.. I think there's good in him that has been trodden down due to his upbringing.. but it's still there, nonetheless. This we saw, in the fear he spoke of to Myrtle before he realised Harry was listening; and in the lowering of his wand on the tower. For these reasons, I don't think Draco could have managed the curse.

Posted by: BirdyKnits Mar 23 2007, 12:19 PM

I think ALL the unforgivable curses would have to require immense mental control. This is why they are unforgivable...none of them can be accidents none of them can be a spur of the moment reaction. There must be serious intent.

And the AK curse the most serious intent of them all.


Perhaps this is how Snape was able to accomplish his curse, to disassociate himself--he does have a very tight lid on each of his emotions (I see his emotions in tupperware contains). However in the main, I think seeing one as LESS than themselves is the main path of this curse.

Thanks for the different perspective, Oryx.

ellen marine, I still think Draco could have successfully performed a very painful cruciatus curse on Harry--no one smashes someone's nose and laughs about it afterward amongst if they didn't enjoy it.

Posted by: *ellen marine* Mar 23 2007, 12:30 PM

IMO, that's a bit different than the kind of hate behind a successful Cruciatus Curse... it's a bit more - I don't know - spontaneous, or opportunist, when Draco breaks Harry's nose.. as is his attempt at the Cruciatus curse - he does it out of momentary anger that Harry has seen him crying. I think a successful Cruciatus curse would be a bit more cold and calculated than that. That's just personal opinion, though

But aside of that.. pretty much a whole school year goes past - moreover, the worst school year of Draco's life - between Draco breaking Harry's nose and attempting to torture Harry with the Cruciatus curse. I think Draco changes quite a lot over the course of that school year.. I don't really think he's the same boy by the end of it as he was when he broke Harry's nose.

Posted by: BirdyKnits Mar 23 2007, 12:52 PM

Good point! I wouldn't have thought Draco EVER crying in the boys bathroom with Moaning Myrtle for company. I am definitely looking forward to what happened to Draco in the next book--ahhh 119 days it's torture!!

Posted by: *ellen marine* Mar 23 2007, 08:06 PM

Thanks!

That's exactly what I mean, though; I think basically his year of being in Voldemort's service has really taken its toll on him.. I don't even think he wants to be part of it anymore (from his conversation with Moaning Myrtle, it seems as though he's carrying on purely out of fear that Voldemort will turn on him and his family if he doesn't). What I choose to read into that - - is that Jo is setting up Draco for a redemption storyline.. but that's largely just wishful thinking, I'm sure! Haha.

Posted by: AL_Patterson Mar 23 2007, 09:10 PM

Dudley minus 100 pounds plus a wand = Draco.

Posted by: kwiki Mar 25 2007, 01:47 AM

Of course Draco needs Crabbe and Goyle beside him when he bullies others, otherwise he is just a wimp. I think that Draco also bullies older students at Hogwarts, we just don't see it because it is not through Harry's eyes. We saw what he did with Madam Rosemerta and the Imperious curse. The other two unforgiavable curses, I do not think that he can do them. He might be mean, he is just to wimpy to do them.

Posted by: charlies angels Mar 25 2007, 12:50 PM

Hmm Draco is a hard one to figure out....But i dont think he is bad.I think that all his life he has been brought up to believe that being a pure blood is one of the most important things.All his life Draco has been trying to live up to his fathers expectations.Draco wants terribly to be excepted by his father as someone worthy.From PS/SS to OOTP Draco talks passionately about the dark arts but not untill HBP does he really find out what they are and as we have seen in HBP Draco finds out the reality of the dark arts and of being a surporter of LV and he does not like it.This can be seen through out HBP when Draco figures out just what it means to become a DE.
From PS/SS through to OOTP Draco craves power and i think this is evident in PS/SS when he wants to become friends with Harry.I think Draco has always been jealous of Harry and his fame.Draco hides his true feelings behind a mask of toughness and cold-heartedness.I think we see a bit of the true Draco when we see him crying to Moaning Myrtle in HPB and on the astronomy tower when he was planning to kill Dumbledore.
I do not think Draco is evil and i hope that in the deathly hallows he will get a chance to redeem himself.

Posted by: General of Light Mar 25 2007, 03:14 PM

I think Draco has a fear of being rejected by his dad and by his peers. So he has to come across as the macho, powerful one because he thinks others will like him if he's like that. He has a big mask and I think that has been strategically put in the films because it's an important part. In the beginning of GOF, Draco said "we even get to sit in the 'whatever' section" with child-like excitement- then his dad told him not to talk to mudbloods. And then he ran away crying when Hermione punched him in the face in POA. I think Draco will be a major part in the last book and I think he will come against Voldemort and his dad.

Posted by: BookishPhoenix Mar 26 2007, 03:13 PM

First, I do not believe for one second that Draco has the guts or the courage to go up against his father's views, much less Voldemort's. We have seen, time and time again, how Draco just does what his father tells him to--without question or argument. We have also seen how much Draco wants his father to be proud of him, to even notice him half the time (Lucius doesn't really seem to notice what his son's doing until it reflects upon him personally). We have also seen how utterly terrified of Voldemort Draco is, and that's after only a year and one (admittedly, botched) job. Now, he's failed the Dark Lord--which means that Draco has even more reason to be scared spitless of the man. And Dumbledore is not around to protect him. Draco puts up a good front, but he is (by and large) a coward. He doesn't do anything (well, with the exception of his "dream" of being a Death Eater) without feeling confident that he'll succeed, confident that he'll come out ahead. I don't see Draco switching sides because to do so not only means that he has to swallow his enormous pride and work with Harry (and we all know what he thinks of him), Ron (the blood traitor), and Hermione (the M^dbl**d), but also that he has to oppose the man that scares him more than anything else in the world and his own father. Regardless of whether he disagrees with Lucius or not, Draco will not defy Malfoy Sr.

I do not believe that Draco will have a large role to play in the seventh book. He is a contradiction of the theme. He is exactly what happens when a person does not make their own choices, when they allow their background and upbringing and family to rule the rest of their lives. There is only one instance in the whole series where Draco is motivated by his own instincts, where he makes his own choice. And that is when he lowers his wand in the face of Dumbledore. And we all know how well that turned out--the one man that Draco believed could protect him is now dead, and he is now in the very dangerous position of having failed the Dark Lord. I don't see him being gutsy enough to try making his own choice (particularly any really dangerous choice) again. I think he'll fall back to the old standby of doing what he's told. So the question then becomes who will be leading Draco--Snape, Voldemort, Narcissa? I simply don't see it being Harry or anyone in the Order.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Mar 28 2007, 07:23 AM

While what you say is backed up with sound evidence to support it, I don't really think that Draco would have any problem going against his father in Deathly Hallows. I mean, Lucius is still in Azkaban as of right now, and considering the fact that Voldemort is going to be busy with the upcoming war, I don't know how soon he'll be getting out. Voldemort's had plenty of time to get Lucius out if he had wanted too, since Lucius has been in prison since the end of Order of the Phoenix. With Lucius being out of the picture for the time being, and with the possibility that he'll be there for a very long time, Draco wouldn't really be thinking too much of what his father would say about his actions. If he did, he wouldn't have started to put his wand down in the tower, because he would have been afraid of what his father would do if he found out.

As to Draco defying Voldemort, well, he's already went against him by refusing to kill Albus, so why stop now? Voldemort won't be too happy with the fact that Draco was unable to kill a wandless and already dieing wizard, so Draco may end up being punished by being subject to the Cruciatis curse. With his life being threatened, which we are told it is in Half-Blood Prince, Draco may figure that he is in as much danger with the Death Eaters as he would be away from them, and then figure that it would be better for him to be away from them, because at least that way he doesn't have to perform anymore tasks like the one in book 6.



Again, I disagree. I honestly don't think that Jo would give Draco such an important role in Half-Blood Prince if she was just going to put him on the back-burner in the final book. She has said that she sees Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows as being able to be read as one big book, but that book is just split into two seperate ones. That being said, it doesn't make sense for Draco to be a huge player in the first half of the book and then in the final half of it to be pushed to the back of the line. Book 6 has set Draco up for one of two things: he will either stick with the Death Eaters, which will inevitably get him killed; or he will finally make a smart decision and turn to the Order, or at least get away from the Death Eaters.

Posted by: BookishPhoenix Mar 28 2007, 07:46 AM

The different being that while Draco stays with the Death Eaters, he knows that Voldemort won't actually kill him--he wouldn't sacrifice a follower as punishment for failure (he hasn't yet in any lifetime). That's what Crucio is for. If Voldemort was going to kill him for failing, then he would have to find a new Death Eater to take his place. On the other hand, if Draco were to suddenly change his alliances and help the Order, that would be tantamount to Draco signing his own death warrant--a failure doesn't warrant death as punishment, but betrayal and turning traitor does, in Voldemort's eyes. Draco might very well disappear from the storyline by going into hiding, along with his mother.

And as for Draco's role in the end of the story, I think it has been played out. He has already made his first choice, taken a first step on the road to enlightenment in a way. His role is complete--he's done what he needed to do, which was realize that it is his choice. Let me explain. When we first meet Draco, he is this arrogant prig that is simply bigotted against anyone poorer, weaker, or impure. This aspect of his character seems to have been carefully cultivated by his father--he's grown up his entire childhood hearing his father badmouth others, so Draco started out simply by parroting what his father had said rather than forming his own opinion. Draco has progressively gotten worse as the books progressed (worse curses, more hatred, more attacks, etc) because I'm sure that's what Lucius expected of him--to give "inferiors" what they have coming to them. Until Draco is finally faced with the ultimate act of evil, the one irrevocable act that would make him a monster. He couldn't do it. He finally realized that he was in control--not his father (whose own bigotry led Draco down the path in the first place), not Voldemort (who, regardless of the threats he made, wasn't actually the one that would be doing the act). Draco realized just who was in control. While I agree that it is heading in the right direction for redemption, I don't see that there's enough space in one book (where there's already so much that has to happen with Harry) for the redemption to show itself--I think the act of not killing Dumbledore illustrates that the potential is there, but I don't think that we'll see it happen. Nor do I believe that Draco will suddenly be any less prideful or arrogant or hateful to Harry, Hermione, Ron, etc. With all that has to take place in Deathly Hallows, I don't see JKR devoting the time and the pages to Draco's rehabilitation (because to be realistic and not just a random 180 degree about face, she would have to spend the time developing that.

That being said, I do not believe that Draco will join up with Harry and Co (to be honest, I just don't see them cooperating with each other long enough to truly accomplish anything). Plus, I do think that Draco's pride will get in the way--regardless of how much he chose not to be a killer, he is still going to be a bigotted prat. On that note, however, I do not see Draco running back to the Death Eaters either. He knows what this failure can cost him, and he is self-preserving. He's not likely to want to return to somewhere to suffer a punishment for failure if he can at all avoid it. Draco will probably disappear with his mother, doing what he does best--saving himself.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Mar 28 2007, 08:32 AM

You do make some good points, BookishPhoenix.

I have been thinking about the possibility of Draco going into hiding instead of going back to Voldemort, but at the end of book 6, Draco is wisked away with Snape. Now, if Snape is loyal to the Order, then he probably has taken Draco somewhere safe; if on the otherhand, he is loyal to Voldemort, then he's probably taken Draco back to Voldemort. In order for Draco to go into hiding, which he would do if it ensured that he wouldn't be punished for his failure, then he would have to do it right away. He wouldn't be able to go to Voldemort and then go into hiding, because the purpose behind it: avoiding punishment, would already be null and void, because Voldemort would have punished him as soon as he knew what had happened on the tower.

Now, the vow that Snape took with Narcissa had him agree to protect Draco to the best of his ability, but it didn't specify how long he had to keep it up. The other clauses in the vow were only to be followed while Draco was doing his task, which was specified in the vow. The protection clause was the only one that was left ambiguous in terms of how long he had to stick to it. Because of that, its possible that that part of the vow is still in effect, which means that if Snape has a sense of what will befall Draco when he confronts Voldemort, the vow may have already kicked in and he would have been driven to take Draco somewhere safe. Of course, that means that Snape may get punished for his interference between Voldemort and Draco because a couple Death Eaters knew that Draco had been with Snape after the events on the tower.

I hate to say it, but it looks like Draco's future is in Snape's hands, and that's not a very comforting thought.

Posted by: xxem jxx Mar 30 2007, 09:14 AM

i dont think draco is that bad. the things he did for the death eaters was in fear of losing his own life and of something happening to his parents ...... i also think said parents are the reason for his behavior towards muggles,squibs, people of muggle parentage and of his school peers on the whole. he like most people gets his discrimination of others from the example set by his parents. i'm not condoning his behaviour but i think his is simply a case of monkey see monkey do!!!!!!!

Posted by: GaryPotter Mar 30 2007, 12:14 PM

I've got to go with the Draco is BAD group. Yea he couldn't kill but that does not make him good. Umbridge is in the same category - not a DE (at least not that we now of) but she is a BAD person. I have one other person in my camp as well - from the Memerson interview I think JKR stated clearly that Draco was not a nice person see the quote below (bolding is of course mine)



MA: What does it do to you to see a character that you love, for people to express sheer hate -
ES: Or vice versa.

JKR: It amuses me. It honestly amuses me. People have been waxing lyrical [in letters] about Draco Malfoy, and I think that's the only time when it stopped amusing me and started almost worrying me. I'm trying to clearly distinguish between Tom Felton, who is a good looking young boy, and Draco, who, whatever he looks like, is not a nice man. It’s a romantic, but unhealthy, and unfortunately all too common delusion of — delusion, there you go — of girls, and you [nods to Melissa] will know this, that they are going to change someone. And that persists through many women's lives, till their death bed, and it is uncomfortable and unhealthy and it actually worried me a little bit, to see young girls swearing undying devotion to this really imperfect character, because there must be an element in there, that "I'd be the one who [changes him]." I mean, I understand the psychology of it, but it is pretty unhealthy. So, a couple of times I have written back, possibly quite sharply, saying [Laughter], "You want to rethink your priorities here."

Posted by: Jenseii Mar 31 2007, 01:32 PM

Draco was brought up evil. I mean come on, if you're born in a pure blood house with a Death Eater father, you're pretty much expected to be evil. Draco was taught that mudbloods are scum, and that pure bloods are better than anyone else since he was born. His father has lots of expectations. Like getting into Slytherin, and probably serving Voldie later on. He was pretty much destined to be evil. He was brought up that way, with no better influences! Can you blame him for being so...Slytherin?

Posted by: kamion Mar 31 2007, 03:58 PM

Don't confuse the father and husband with the politican and intriguer;

Not likely a doting and hugging father, but nevertheless a father Draco felt save with and was proud of to be his son. I don't think Lucius ever laid a finger on Draco, he certainly did not pottytrain him with Cruciatus. But his disapproval, for instance when Draco was experimenting with paint on the family portraits, would devastate Draco.

Bigotery Draco probably got from his mother, the Blacks had little bigots flowing through their veins instead of bloodcells. And it is already hard not to give a single child the impression it is the center of the world.
Narcissa as one of " the Nobilty" was likely married very young, at 17 or after sitting her OWL's, which makes it plausable she lost one or two childs before Draco was born, making him even more precious to her.

This sheltered upbringing came with a price, there were hardly kids of his age kwalified enough to be Draco's friend as an equal, the exception is Theodore Nott, but he keeps his own counsel ( see Rowlings site for that).

Now there is one person in the Wizarding World who is his age and of a status that even exalts the one Draco thinks he has himself. Draco grew up in the belief that Harry Potter knew him and was dying to become his friend. Lucius probably did not discourage this misbelief.

And as shocking as it was for Harry to know their was another world right on the corner, it was as shocking for Draco to be confronted with a world that made it's own dissisions NOT based on the thruths and values he grew up with.

Here sits someone who needs a guide to be introduced to the right people, who is unfamiliar with the world as Draco knows it

and he turns him down.

Draco who got from his father that it was completely legal to manipulate the lesser beings of this world to do the bidding or their betters ( be it House Elves, Mudbloods or Muggles ) not quite skilled enough to perform the subtle art of manipulation turns to bullying.

Bullying seems to be part of the natural order at boarding schools, in many cases Draco gets away with it because he has the protection of Snape.

But isn't strange that Dumbledore, who seems to know about everything that goes around at Hogwarts never put a stop to it?

Draco evil?
No, just brought up with a very one-sided vision on the world around him and being confronted with the others sides of the world made him very insecure.

*edited to remove inappropriate language*

Posted by: KyleJRM Apr 1 2007, 04:48 AM

I always thought Draco's badness is overplayed in the books because Harry can't stand him, and we are seeing the books through Harry's perspective.

How would Harry react if Draco:

Apparently snuck his name into the Goblet of Fire, but protested his innocence?
Snuck out of the school into Hogsmeade and got into no trouble at all?
Constantly interrupted his favorite teachers' lessons?
Used an extremely dark curse to severely injure and almost kill another student and somehow slip expulsion?
Crash a car into a valuable piece of school property?
Win a Quidditch Cup just because he's so famous that someone gives him a firebolt without him having to do anything for it?

We'd see some of those events in a very different light if they were described through the lens of the narrator disliking the person they happened to.

Posted by: BookishPhoenix Apr 2 2007, 10:40 AM

Well, to be fair, Harry reacts to Draco in most of the situations you describe:
-Sneaks all around school, doing all kinds of misdeeds (as minor as bullying first years to as severe as working to get Death Eaters into Hogwarts) and never getting in trouble for it from the teachers.
-Constantly interrupts and disrupts Harry's favorite classes (i.e. Lupin's DADA) and makes Harry's worst classes (i.e. Potions with Snape) worse.
-Used an extremely dark curse that only didn't happen because Harry spoke faster.
-Broke his nose and left Harry invisible on the train, trying to get him expelled (or at least go home).
-Have his father buy him a spot on the Slytherin team and seven brooms, so that they could essentially buy their way to victory.

The other two not only were specific events (that would've seemed repetitive and un-JKR-ish if they'd been repeated) but also didn't really seem to upset Draco at all. He thought it more a joke that Harry was a "tag-on" Champion. I don't think he particularly cared much that Harry had crashed into the Whomping Willow either (though Harry and Ron both got into trouble over that one).

Draco isn't cursed to be evil--he is definitely an example of what happens when you allow other people to run your life and make your choices (or at least heavily impact your choices). I don't think his upbringing is an excuse for his actions either--you don't get to hide behind the "my father made me do it" excuse forever. Draco could've made different choices; he could've developed a sense of moral decency. He chose not to. Your childhood influences only accept blame for so much. At some point, probably about the time that Draco's behavior got progressively worse, Draco has to shoulder the responsibility for being Draco and all that that entails.

Posted by: 1deadlyauror Apr 6 2007, 09:11 AM

Malfoy will never become a true deatheater because hes to prissy and hes scared to kill i think he just wanted to be noticed for doing great things or to be noticed by his parents who seem to caught up kissing voldemorts scaly feet but chosen the wrong path in which you cant turn back, hes just a confused teenager looking for attention.

Posted by: CauldronAddict Apr 7 2007, 07:32 AM

I agree with this completely and I'd like to add that Sirius was brought up in a house very similar to Draco and his brother was a DE, and Sirius made the choice not to follow his upbringing or his brother's footsteps. Draco has made bad choices and decisions and I do think he is bad, but I don't believe him to be evil either. He is too much of a scardy-cat in a way. I mean look at how he fears the Dark Forest and just the mention of Moody in GoF.

Posted by: Mycroft Apr 7 2007, 10:16 PM

Rowling has overdrawn Draco a bit much for him to have much believability as a real person. It is difficult of us to understand why Draco is so obsessed with Harry, but we generally don't question it because we understand that Draco is meant to be there as Harry's foil, as the reliable bully, and so Rowling spends no time giving Draco actual motives.

Late in the game, in HBP, Rowling begins to rehabilitate Draco, as when we learn that he has been crying to Myrtle, or as when we infer his isolation and lonliness when we learn he has drawn away from Crabbe and Goyle, all of which helps prepare us for the scene on the tower with Draco and DD.

Up till HBP, Draco was a cartoon bully, despicable in a one-dimensional way, that is, all there was to him was his despicable behavior, nothing more--no justification, no chance of our sympathizing with him or understanding his motives beyond the fact that he hates Harry.

In building her Frankenstein of a bully, however, Rowling necessarily bestowed on Draco certain traits. For example, Draco's campaign against Harry during GoF, while undeniably ugly, was also undeniably effective and somewhat inspired, as was his campaign against Ron in Ootp.

If Draco were a push-over, he would not be a worthy adversary for Harry. Draco is quite formidable, as recent events have proven. I don't see how his actions could be understood to be anything other than bad--that is, he does not appear bad because we misunderstand him but because what he does is vicious, unfair, vindictive, mean, and wanton.

But we have shared Draco's life for many years now, however distant we have been to his motives. If his fate is to mean something to us, Rowling is going to have to get us to feel we understand Draco. HBP was a start at that, but not the whole job, not by a long shot. I expect that at core Draco will prove to be different from his father, as DD suspected. Like the young Nazi at the end of Sound of Music, Draco has been disarmed by DD, but Draco still has the option to blow his whistle and cause reprisals. Will he? Probably, yes. But he will achieve his redemptive moment whereas his father, Lucius, will not. I expect Draco to be alive at the end of DH, but Lucius to be dead.

*

Posted by: wannabwitch Apr 7 2007, 10:56 PM

[font=Tahoma][size=3]

I think that he doesn't even know, so why should we try to figure it out. But I think he might surprise us in the last book. The last book...I don't like the sound of that (

Posted by: kamion Apr 7 2007, 11:22 PM

Maybe there is a connection between Harry's last detention and Draco's change of redemtion.

In quite a humilating way Harry got evidence that his father and Sirius were nasty bullies as great as Draco, and not just because they hareshed Snape.

Yet before this McGonagall always speaks about James Potter as a well loved person.

So when James got redeemed why not Draco.

Posted by: CauldronAddict Apr 8 2007, 06:42 AM

James and Sirius are bullies but it seems to only be against Snape. Draco however bullies everyone that isn't in Slytherin and uses terms that are very offensive. You don't hear Sirius or James using those offensive terms, you just hear them using a nickname for Snape who has given back to them both just as much as they've given to him.

I'm not saying that Draco can't be redeemed, however I don't ever expect to see him and Harry being the best of friends either. I see, if anything, them having a relationship similar to the one we saw between Snape and Sirius in OOTP. Working together out of necessity but not liking it one bit.

Posted by: kamion Apr 8 2007, 11:06 AM

" James Potter and Sirius Black. Apprehended using an illigal hex upon Bertram Aubrey. Aubrey's head twice normal size. Double detention."
HBP - Sectrumsempra - pg 497- Bloomsbury children edit
text of the first card Snape pulled out the register, my conclusion they were the same type of bullies at random as Draco is portraited.

Posted by: Mycroft Apr 8 2007, 11:12 AM

Touche, Kamion--a touch, a palpable touch!

I think you have hit on something that could play out quite interestingly in the final book.

*

Posted by: CauldronAddict Apr 8 2007, 06:03 PM

This person could be the equivalent of Crabbe or Goyle, and we don't have the full story about it either. I still stick with my original statement until we see more in Canon about them (if we see any that is).

Posted by: kamion Apr 9 2007, 12:05 AM

well there were enough of these cards to keep Harry happy till the next year.
euh... unhappy of course., it clearly was not an isolated case of mischief.

other point is that we only hear of it when Draco plays his tricks on Harry, yet it is taken for granted that he is a general bully.

Posted by: maciel Apr 9 2007, 01:56 AM

Although James and Sirius did bullied in their time, I can't actually say they resembled Draco and his group because only Snape's memory showed us how they were, and we can't know the exact reason why they did that hex on that girl. What if it turned out Bertram Audrey was someone who actually deserved a hex?

Draco could really be bad. He bullied just anyone he could bully, has bad qualities and an insufferabe attitude, and he even criticizes Crabbe and Goyle, who's supposed to be his friends, infront of their faces.

On the other hand, he showed love and fierce loyalty to his parents, reasons why he acted, talked and think like them, was obedient to them, and he did everything he could to save them from Voldy's wrath in HBP. Maybe he would be redeemed by DD's mercy in the end, because I kept thinking of Snape's being nasty all the time yet had showed evidences of loving his mother. Though we're still all in waiting to discover what had actually made Snape loyal to Dumbledore, I can't help theorizing maybe DD was able to tap on his love for his mother?

Yeah, of course, Snape did kill DD. But we're still all in argument whether he did that for Voldy, or it was an option he has to take if something goes wrong, according to DD 's plans.

We still have to see what will happen.

Posted by: CauldronAddict Apr 9 2007, 09:05 AM

Up to mischief and being a bully is different things. We are not told what was on the rest of the cards, it could have been very innocent things like what Fred and George do and just got caught. It could be just wandering the halls after hours. We see Harry get some detentions within the series that are not due to a bullying tactic but because of overzealous powerhungry teachers with attitudes (Snape and Umbridge).

To see a true nature of a person you'd look to how they treat their friends, not their enemies. James and Sirius teased Peter and Lupin quite a bit, but it was all in good fun. Draco however treats Crabbe and Goyle many times like a person would treat a house-elf or servant.

In CoS we hear of Malfoy getting a bad wrap by Ernie and we hear Draco himself picking on Creevy, so I don't believe it is just a Draco-Harry thing, he seems to do it to anybody that isn't Slytherin.

Posted by: Silverback Novelist Apr 9 2007, 02:25 PM

I don't think he's evil. It depends on how you say it. In my eyes, he's like Dr. Evil, but it's pronounced "E Val", not "Evil". The past books he has been a little annoyance, bringing tension and comic relief into the story. But, during HBP, he is more illusive and active as a character, not really causing permanent harm, but doing evil deeds.
Draco isn't on my ultra evil meter. He's "Eval" at best. Here he is...
[llllllllllll....................................]
Here's the rating for Harry, not very stimulating I know but it's something. He attempted to do the torture curse. That's why.
[ll............................................]
Here's Lucius, see he's kind of evil there. It would be higher if he didn't comb his hair a hour a day, before going ouside. Sorry, Lucius.
[llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.................]
Here's Lord Volvomort. Again, he's evil, a high score for him. He has an odd taste and soft spot for collecting pogs, magic the gathering cards and other magical treasure from great wizards of the past, which bring his down a bit, but he's quite evil as you can see....
[llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll........]
Oddly enough, here's Mr. Rogers. See? He out ranks Harry. It must have been those traffic violations
[lllllll........................................]
[Tom Hank's hairdue from the Da Vinci Code movie. Yup, that's almost as evil as LV, but not quite there.
[lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll..........]
Here are the telatubbies. I would never have guess, but always had a feeling....
[lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll]

So, yes. Draco is evil. It's in his blood, even though I don't really believe that sort of thing, but it's Jo's book. I feel bad for the character, as much as I can for a fictional character. The reason being is that I have a feeling that he's not going to make it and his mother is going to go insane like the Longbottoms because of it.

Posted by: BookishPhoenix Apr 9 2007, 03:49 PM

I like the Evil Meter. It makes a good illustration, though you have to include a few other people there. You need to include:

Ronald Weasley (nothing too heinous, but he did betray his best friend's trust in GoF)
[l.............................................]
Sirius Black (not because of his ancestry, but because he did set up a could-be-fatal encounter for Snape)
[llllllll........................................]
Severus Snape (I'm sorry, he lost a lot of points in my book for killing Dumbledore--regardless of the motivations or the plans or whatever)
[lllllllllllllll...................................]
Here's Wormtail (betraying the Potters seems both cowardly and evil-ish; framing Sirius is also evil-ish; as is helping Voldemort be reborn--fear is no excuse)
[lllllllllllllll...................................]
Percy Weasley (traitor to his own family for the power and the prestige of the Ministry--disgusting)
[lll............................................]
[And Bella. (Almost as evil as LV, but not quite there. After all, she does seem to care for her sister.)
[lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll..........]

Posted by: kamion Apr 9 2007, 03:55 PM

Nice exemple is how Sirius theated his friend is
pulling a prank that could have ended in his friend
becoming the killer of a fellow student.
Had James not saved Snape Lupin would have lived with the guild and burden that his
handicap made him a murderer,
something Dumbledore and Pomfrey had managed to avoid for
- I think - 5 to 6 years ( I place it after the " worst memory" event).
Nice to have such friends, it goes a bit beyond teasing.

That whole event seemed to be played down a bit when the saga continues,
but I think it triggered Snape to become a Death Eater.

Point is however not to find out who is the real bully; Draco or Sirius
(they both are, but it may not come as a surprice to you I like Draco best .)
point is the process Harry is going through when growing up.
On one hand he learns that " his" side is not to be idolised,
on the other hand that the "other" side is human too.

Posted by: Tom Bombadil Apr 12 2007, 05:43 PM

Wow, there are a lot of forgiving souls around here.

Isn't Jo's thought that it is our choices that define us, not our bloodlines? Whatever his upbringing, Draco spent his entire sixth year trying to bring about the death of Albus Dumbledore, and almost killed Katie Bell and Ron Weasley in the process. He also effectuated the introduction of Death Eaters into Hogwarts which led directly to the death of Dumbledore, even if Draco didn't have the capacity to cast the AK himself.

Is he redeemable? Yes. Is he evil? For now, he is that, too.

Posted by: the northern witch Apr 14 2007, 05:23 PM

i was surpised when malfoy did not kill dumbledore, but snape did .. why do you think malfoy didn't?

Posted by: kwiki Apr 14 2007, 06:02 PM

He did not plan on having the heads of the various houses being told to investigate their students after what happened to Katie Bell. He did not count on Slughorn keeping the bottle of mead from Madam Rosemerta for himself. And he was not counting on wimping out at the end. I think that he was afraid of what the consequences were, not from Voldemort, but from other people like his mother or aunt. He does have the required hatred to do most of the unforgivable curses.

As for Snape, he did prove in HBP that he has the hatred required to perform the Avada Kadavra curse. He probably did the curse during the first war.

Posted by: topfer Apr 14 2007, 06:20 PM

I think why Draco couldn't kill DD is because he didn't want to. Remember the unbreakable vow, the vow was if LV asked Draco to do some thing and Draco couldn't do it LV might have killed him so the vow was for snape to finish it if Draco couldn't, thats what Narcissa asked Snape to do, See I don't think Draco is all bad I think it might be because of Lucius, I mean come on if Draco was all bad he would have killed DD, and I really don't think if he was as bad as every one thinks he is he wouldn't be so afraid of his shadow, 3rd movie for instance....

But thats just me and I could be way off

Posted by: mayjean Apr 14 2007, 06:34 PM

I believe that Draco, did not kill DD because Draco is not a killer just a big bully. I also believe that he wanted to kill DD to protect his parents and himself.

I hope am right

Posted by: GaiusGilwomp Apr 14 2007, 06:37 PM

Malfoy really wanted to believe he was capable of doing something special-that he could succeed where others had failed. And he does; he finds a way to smuggle the DE into the castle, but he doesn't have the heart to go through with the killing. Draco has never killed anyone before, and as mean-spirited as Draco is, even Harry realizes that the kid doesn't have it in him. He was really put in a difficult spot in HBP, and it will be hard for him to make his way out alive in DH.

books and movies can be different. Part of that is Cuaron's influence as director.

Posted by: where_is_my_invisibility_cloak Apr 14 2007, 06:59 PM

As nasty as Draco is and as horrible as he has been to Harry, Hermione, Ron, and Neville, he is not a murderer. Draco really is just a bully, like mayjean said. He likes to draw attention to himself and for people to be afraid of him. He wants to feel important. Therefore, when LV ordered him to kill DD (I believe that he was asked to do this to punish his father. I think that LV thought that Draco would either be caught or that he would fail, then LV would kill him. But that is not the point of this thread), he got the special assignment he wanted. We see how he is on the train. But in the end, he is unable to kill DD because he is unable to kill. His other efforts (the necklace and mead) were ways of killing DD where Draco didn't really have to strike the final blow. Someone else would be doing the dirty work. When it came down to actually killing Dumbledore himself, Draco just couldn't do it.

Posted by: SnapeIsSoEvil Apr 14 2007, 07:03 PM

Because Malfoy Doesnt have enough pure hatred of DD to preform The Killling Curse. He Wanted to because Voldermort asked him to and Draco is scared. ( Not Loyal ) Snape Did It Because Of The Unforgivable Curse. He Had to! Snape Is So Evil. ( Check Out My Name LOL ) So when the bookstores say severus snape good or evil? EVIL

Posted by: Seven of Nine Apr 14 2007, 07:33 PM

Another thread has been merged into this one.

Posted by: Alraune Apr 15 2007, 12:47 AM

Harry himself made this connection in the very first interaction he had with Draco, but I think both Harry (and, though I mean no offense by this) and you do Draco a disservice by limiting the comparison to just that.

Draco isn't good. He isn't nice, he isn't considerate, he's. . . vile and frustrating. I found him incorrigible throughout the series, up 'til OoTP where Umbrage took his spot. But he was always just a bully and a shadow-counterpart to the protagonist. He was the jerk in class, or in your life, that knew exactly how to get under your skin and make you writhe and squirm. He's smart enough to know how to push buttons and what's the best way to get to someone. However - Harry immediately linking Draco with Dudley puts Draco in a biased light from the start. Yes, Draco didn't do much to unsully his name in Harry's eyes, given his actions, but obviously if you tie a person into someone you already don't dislike you're more inclined to dislike them more. Draco just gives him more reasons for it.

However, in another view (and this is only something on which I've picked up after reading the books more than once [my intial feelings about Draco were all negative, which did a completely flip in HBP]) Draco has his way of handling things, and Harry has his. They are in direct contrast and conflict with each other - Draco values purity of blood and name, he values honor and mingling with those of an equal rank. Harry has no prejudices, he has no limited view of who is welcome and who is not. Kind of like an old form of a class or caste system - high-class society families could only relate to those of equal wealth and importance. It was unheard of to mingle in a realm below them. Draco was raised to believe and think this way. I don't see him allowing his system to change until he reaches an older age - 16, as we see in HBP; it allows him to emotionally confide in Moaning Myrtle, a "Mudblood" who wouldn't be worthy of an earlier Draco's time, attention or confidence. So there's a chance that, now that he's older and (bereft of his father, the forceful, imposing figure in his life) he has a chance to reshape what has been instilled within him since birth.

I think Draco wanted to be Harry's friend - he would see this as a great advantage to the whole honor and purity thing, though his family be steeped in Dark Arts. Draco, in his own way, I believe does care somewhat for his friends. Not as deeply as Harry does for Ron or Hermione, and vice versa, but enough to know when an injustice has been done and to be outraged by it (I think he mentioned something along these lines in HBP, though it is late and I might be mixing fanfiction with actual canon. I'll have to look that up). When Harry makes the line of being able to decide who was worthy of his friendship and who wasn't, Draco actually flushes. This is the worse offense Harry could give him - insulting his honor, insulting his blood.

Even so, I'm not a Draco fangirl. I wasn't one from the start, I don't like villains or evil baddies because they're so hawt or anything. I simply can recognize a fascinating character when I see one - which is also why I like Snape. Draco and Snape have always outraged me. I've wanted to punch them loads of times in the books, though I would grind my teeth and bear the frustration and it turned out for the best - there's more to them than what they show and say.

I think Draco is cowardly, though. Cowardly in the sense of getting in over his head and being so rendered asunder and frightened by the consequences the only somewhat safe plan he has is to flee and/or to delay the inevitable. I see this as a natural reaction. To call Draco a coward means to call every person who has, willingly or un-, walked into a situation that was dangerous and perilous, only to rue the circumstances, also a coward. This labels most of humanity cowards. However, I see it as natural. Hamlet delayed his plans for revenge for four acts, finally maturing enough to "let be" and to face the consequences of his choice to take revenge for his father's murder. Hamlet agreed to it, he knew what it meant to be a player in a revenge tragedy - and he stalls. He feigned madness, he rejected the world around him, he harassed his mother and threatened his step-father/uncle, he fled Denmark, briefly, only to return - and own up to it all. I can see Draco doing this - after fleeing he will have, finally, one shot of redemption, one more chance at proving his worth, at standing up to what he has committed himself to, and it may very well prove to be his greatest undoing. But at least he'd have done something.

Posted by: AmrywoDdyddiauHeulog Apr 15 2007, 09:45 AM

I think JKRowling puts the funny, reality-check comments in Draco's mouth that she can't say as the omniscient narrator throughout the books. He gets to say all the derisive things one might want to say about the protagonist and some of his lines are hilariously funny. My favourite, I think is when he calls Harry "The Boy Who Scored--or whatever they're calling you now" and he's a very good mimmick. How you can imitate and mime all the people and things he does throughout the books, he must have been a cut-up. Yeah spoiled, yeah doted upon; mean-spirited; but my vote is for misunderstood. She has a way of doing that ... no character not even Hermione, is completely good, or completely bad. But then, I'm a Severus fan so I would say that.

Posted by: Alraune Apr 15 2007, 09:59 AM

I agree. Harry has faults, as does 'flawless' Hermione, but we accept them as the heroes and as good because we're shown the story through their perspective and because what they do probably is not as bad as what the 'bad guys' do (not talking about Voldemort and the Death Eaters here - clearly they are in a realm all on their own). I do think that as the series goes on, the things that Harry &c. do to Draco & c. aren't exactly justified or excusable; they drug Crabbe and Goyle, lock them in a closet and sneak into the Slytherin common room to find out what Draco knows about the Chamber of Secrets. Their intentions are good, yes, and they want answers - but they don't get answers. Not to mention they steal from a Professor's own storage in order to do the spell. Hermoine sets Snape's robes on fire in PS - yes, she thought that he was jinxing Harry but STILL. She lit him on fire!

I could go on and on, really, but I think the point is. . . that good and bad are subjective comments, and can be altered depending on how you view them. Leaning too much on Harry's side blinds you to what the motivation is on the 'bad' side, and leaning too much on the 'bad' side isn't too good of a thing, either; it creates the possibility of someone wishfully thinking there is a heart and depth where this is none.

But I'm also a Snape supporter, so. . . I might be taking my own advice come 21st July.

Posted by: shadowquill Apr 15 2007, 10:16 AM

I think Draco has had some poor role models. He bases all of his opinions off of his father's. He adores his father. Now that his father is in prizon and he's been with the Death Eaters, however, I think he's starting to question many things in his life. I think he romanticised being a Death Eater and thought of it as the rebellious "dark side", and only recently has realized that it isn't a game and it isn't just a search for power and glory. I'm reminded of when Snape gave him that lecture about his foolishness and Draco said "You just want to steal my glory!" or something along those lines and Snape called him a "child". Snape was dead on the mark, and I think Draco is only just beginning to develop an identity separate from his family. I wish him luck and hope he makes some better decisions in the future.

Posted by: hpjenn Apr 15 2007, 10:54 AM

I see Draco as a character who has known one life style. All his opinions are based on his up-bringing by two very rich snobs who are desperatly clinging to old ideas that make them powerful and prominate. Draco has never had to think for himself when it comes to social situations. While he shoud have the humanity and intelligence to realize what he does and thinks is wrong, in truth it is all he knows.

Towards the end of HBP, I think Draco was begining to think for himself a bit. When confronted by Dumbledore on the Tower, he was unsure of himself. He seemed ready to give in and be protected by Dumbledore and the Order.

Over all, Draco is not a saint. He has many faults in character but many are due to his appalling upbringing. Still, he is at age when it is time to choose what he truely believes and question what he has been taught.

Posted by: the northern witch Apr 15 2007, 01:09 PM

i think that he is not a bad boy at all, he is just .... well bad.. but not enough to kill some one , maybe just to make someone to have a bad time....

i think he freaked out and he was not capable to kill him. because even he hates DD, he just could not kill him , as simple as that

maybe he is just misunderstood

*edited for clarity*

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Apr 16 2007, 07:02 AM

Draco is bad.... to a certain extent. He attempts to curse Harry when his back is turned, but he does it because Harry has just insulted his mother; and he imoblilizes Harry and breaks his nose, leaving him under his cloak on the Hogwarts Express. These are not the actions of someone who is nice. But, at the same time, these actions are not those of someone who is evil.

Draco made some bad decisions, that much is obvious. He takes on his task with eagerness. He wants to prove he is like his father, but after his first two attempts fail, he is reduced to crying in a bathroom and to receiving solace from a ghost of a muggle-born witch. We learn that his life, and the lives of his parents, are being threatened if he doesn't complete his task. That's why he continues with it, even after his early attempts fall short of the mark. We learn how much he loves his family, and we know that someone can't be completely evil if they are capable of feeling love for someone.

Draco finds the courage to carry on, and he eventually confronts Albus on the tower. We know that Draco hates Albus. He calls him the "muggle-loving fool", and so if he was evil it shouldn't have been a problem for him to just mutter the Killing Curse and flee. But, he doesn't. He opts for having a conversation with Albus, most likely hoping for someone to come and help him out of the situation. I think that another factor in his inability to kill Albus, lies in how he was raised. He was raised to respect those of equal standing to himself, and although he sees Albus as a muggle-loving fool, he also recognizes that Albus is extremely powerful and that he is a pureblooded wizard. Draco believes in pureblood superiority, so why would he want to kill off one of the most powerful purebloods of the age?

It's like AmrywoDdyddiauHeulog said: no character not even Hermione, is completely good, or completely bad. But then, I'm a Severus fan so I would say that.

Voldemort is really the only character in the series that is completely evil. Everyone else has the capablility to be both good and bad. Severus kills Albus, which by some cements him as a bad guy, but then if you look back on the series, you see he's done things that benefit Harry and the Order. He is the perfect example of someone who is both good and bad. But you can't really put him completely under one of those labels. Draco is the same way. He has made some bad decisions, and he's done some bad things to Harry and his friends (just like Severus), but we learn in HBP that the choices he's made recently have been done for a good reason: He's made them for his family.

But, I'm a Draco Malfoy fan, and an even bigger Severus Snape fan, so it makes me a bit biased when it comes to these two characters. I believe that Severus is neither good or evil, but an equal mixture of both; and I believe the same for Draco. In the end, however, it doesn't matter what side we, the readers, place them on; the only thing that matters is what side they see themselves on (I know this sentence may not make sense to everyone else, but it makes sense to me

Posted by: kamion Apr 16 2007, 07:13 AM

would you be lieve, that I actually whooped when I read that chapter.
I however read Draco punched Harry in the face
( like Hermione punched Draco in PoA)
When I understood he stamped using his shoe I though it low and beneath a Malfoy.

.... maybe I was taking fandom a bit too far

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Apr 16 2007, 07:32 AM

I also thought that stomping on Harry's face was low and beneath Draco, but I was also happy that Draco finally got back at Harry without getting in trouble for it. In the past, Draco was never able to do anything to Harry because someone was always around to catch him. I was glad he had a chance to get even, without being caught in the act. I know that I shouldn't have been happy about that, since he was hurting the hero of the series, but I've never really felt much favoritism towards Harry. He's never been among my favorites of the series, even though the books are about him. I feel that way because hero's have never been my favorite type of characters. I'm always drawn to the enigmatic characters; the ones that are complex; the ones that really leave you wondering what side their really on. That's why I've been drawn to Severus and Draco.

Posted by: Alraune Apr 16 2007, 11:17 AM

>Voldemort is really the only character in the series that is completely evil. Everyone else has the capablility to be both good and bad. Severus kills Albus, which by some cements him as a bad guy, but then if you look back on the series, you see he's done things that benefit Harry and the Order. He is the perfect example of someone who is both good and bad. But you can't really put him completely under one of those labels. Draco is the same way. He has made some bad decisions, and he's done some bad things to Harry and his friends (just like Severus), but we learn in HBP that the choices he's made recently have been done for a good reason: He's made them for his family.

Also, there are very rare instances where Draco actually helps out Harry &c. In GoF he tells them to run along into the woods because the DEs are after Muggles - sure, he does it in a snide, condescending way, but it's still a valid point.

Doesn't he also give hints about what happened to Hagrid in OoTP before its made known? Yes, they're also done in a taunting, horrible way but they're hints all the same - they let Harry know what's happened. And he practically eggs Harry on regarding hunting Black down in PoA, hinting that Harry is perfectly justified if he finds Black and deals with him all on his own. . . I dunno. I think in Draco's very weird and twisted way, he was at times helping Harry - but mostly he was just a nuisance. A very snarky nuisance.

Posted by: Snapes_Angel Apr 16 2007, 11:46 AM

That's true. And because of those instances, Draco is again similar to Severus. Draco has been of help to Harry and his friends before, but he offers up that help in a very condescending way. Severus is much the same way. At the end of HBP, he offers Harry some important information. Mainly the fact that he will never be able to get a curse off at someone unless he keeps his mouth and his mind shut. That's a very important bit of information, but its delivered in his usual sneering manner. I'm beginning to think that Draco and Severus believe that if they deliever help in sneering, condescending ways, that they won't be seen as helping him lol! Harry usually takes those hints as the two of them just showing how superior they see themselves in comparison to him; he sees them as belittling him because he hasn't been smart enough to figure out what they already know.

The fact that Harry dislikes both of them, furthers their beliefs that they won't be seen as helping him. They know that Harry will end up following what they tell him, but they also know that Harry dislikes them too much to give them the credit for helping him along.

Draco may see himself as bad, and in some ways he is; but no matter what he does, he can't prevent the moments where his good side shows through. The only thing he can do is try to mask them from everyone else, and he does that by delivering his help in his usual cold, degrading manner. And it works. Harry follows his information, but he never acknolwedges where it came from.

Posted by: kamion Apr 16 2007, 12:53 PM

About the same here, but the hero must have some appeal of sympathy to me.....
otherwise I would not be reading these books and enjoy them.

When you like the book, you obvious like the hero or protagonist, but beyond the scope of wondering if or what you like about him. That would be something like answering the question:
" How do you descibe the colour black?
Or
" What colour has the colour black?"
It is always the other ( supporting) characters you have to work on and get your anti - and sympathies worked out.

Quite different is the situation when the protagonist is an anti-hero or just a plain villain. Then you start wondering: " Why do I like this guy or she-devil?"
Such an experience I had with the character Steerpike from Gormenghast played by Jonathan Rhys Meyers, a mean and powerhungry intrigant, when Draco would have a half-brother it would be him and he could take lessons in nastiness.

But I was hoping he would win and bring havoc on his place, of course he did not.

His dislike is part of his problem for being bad in the for him essential subject of Potions.
I still suspect Snape for recognizing this problem and actually planting the Potions Book in the schoolroom, next to somehow rigging Harry's OWL
so he would come without a Potions book to his 6th year.
Harry would never have opened the HBP when he knew Snape was the author.

Posted by: venas May 7 2007, 11:22 AM

In half blood prince Harry uses his new un tryed spell Sectumsempra on Draco with terible results. Draco is covered in deep cuts all over his body swiming in a pool of his own blood. Harry is destaught he can't beleve what he has done. His every reaction shows us that Harry would give anything to turn back time and make that not have happened. Luckly Snape is close and saves Draco. Harry gets detention and the storys is over.

Up on the tower Draco begins the events that lead to Dumbledores death. The fact that he couldnt kill him dosnt matter to my theory at this time. Before doing this Draco lets the death eaters in to the castle. He has also almost killed kate Bell and Ron through the year.

So lets go back to the bathroom Draco is lying in his blood Harry is paralised by fear not knowing what to do. Lets say Snape was no ware near at the time and Draco died what efect would this have had on the story? I know this is unthinkable harry killed draco but still Draco is no longer around to mend the vanishing cabinate so the death eaters dont get in in to the castle that night. Bill dosn't get atacked by a warewolf so his life better. Draco isnt there to disarm Dumbledore that night so Dumbledore although weekened by an unknown potion recovers and helps harry to the end.

Im not saying that Harry should have killed Draco my point is that i think his atitude to killing has changed because of it. After the incident in the bathroom Harry, Ron and hemionie sat around for weeks talking about how bad it was and that spell is to hear them talk none of them will ever use it again as long as they live. The night Dumbledore dies however it is Harry who was devastated by the results of the spell who tryes to cast it again this time at Snape.

I wonder what this says about Harry. I think he learnt that at times it is better to kill and avoid further damage than to Spend the rest of his life running away. He wants Snape to fight he tryes to goad him to do it he trys to cast an unforgivable curse on Snape. Harry now understands his task and he is now willing to kill.

I think Draco has helped harry get ready to face Voldamort. He has made him see that sometimes you have to use any means nesasary to stop the bad guy. What do you think?

Posted by: Mai May 7 2007, 11:44 AM

I see what you are saying. Although it may just be chane that the two happend, if you get what I mean. Good thinking!!

I may come back and post after I think about this more

Posted by: vandy May 7 2007, 11:49 AM

judging by your arguments it looks like harry helped draco....

Posted by: Number279 May 7 2007, 12:01 PM

Interesting; but Harry couldn't use the Cruciatus Curse against Bellatrix and that was only moments after she had killed Sirius. I doubt Harry's righteous anger will be enough to allow him to use the Unforgivable Curses and I seriously doubt he would want to use them even if he could. He couldn't bring himself to kill Wormtail, he couldn't torture Bellatrix because he didn't enjoy causing people to suffer, and I don't think he will find himself able to kill Snape if given the oppurtunity.

After re-reading the passage I did notice something interesting though:

Okay, so Snape is healing Draco's wound with a counter-curse that sounds almost like a song. The only other instance we have of a song with healing powers is the Phoenix Song. This could be a key piece of information that Snape really is working for Dumbledore.

More significantly, who else have we seen in the series that has a curse related scar? If Snape was present on the night of the Potter's murder could he have been the one who stopped Harry's head from bleeding? Obviously if he didn't have dittany handy he wouldn't be able to prevent scarring.

We just sort of accept the fact that Harry has a scar from the curse that failed; but a scar comes from a wound and that means that you would have an infant that would be bleeding from their head. Someone is going to have to do something to heal that wound to prevent the baby from dying. Could this be the reason Dumbledore trusts Snape? Given a choice between allowing the chosen one to die and doing what's right did Snape prove himself by saving Harry?

Posted by: SynamonWitch May 7 2007, 12:09 PM

Yes, good point you have... I see Harry's motivation as one of vengeance... He's been marked for death, compelled to challenge Voldemort because of the Prophecy, and to avenge his parents' murder. Like DD says on the tower, Draco is not a killer, and I don't think Harry is, either. He is compelled to "destroy" Voldemort, but does it necessarily follow that he has to KILL him? Maybe that's just semantics... but I just don't think Harry is a killer. His greatest power is Love, right? Justified as he may be, I just can't figure out how Harry can be a murderer. Can't wait to see how JKR sorted this one out...!
I agree with venas, though, Harry's encounter with Draco in the bathroom does have that effect on Harry that he knows now the seriousness and the gravity of what dark spells actually DO. Harry may despise Draco but there's a huge difference between hating someone and literally wanting to kill them and actually doing it. It seems to me that JKR made a big deal in HBP in the scene on the Astronomy Tower about Draco not being able to actually follow through with murdering Dumbledore, despite the fact Draco made numerous comments about how he's there to kill him. I don't have the book in front of me, but Harry makes several comments himself about Draco's lack of action on his threats to kill DD. True that Draco is a bully and a coward. And it's also true that Harry is the Hero and is going to have to "slay the dragon." So far Harry's Sectum Sempra spell worked on Draco, but his Cruciatus curse didn't work on Bellatrix, and if memory serves, it was blocked by Snape, so I wonder, does Harry have it in him to successfully perform an Unforgivable Curse??

Posted by: coocanet May 7 2007, 12:16 PM

Harry is the type of person though who would scream, "I'M GOING TO KILL HIM!!" but then when he's face to face with the person he can't do it unless Voldemort is the person. I think the only reason why he didn't try using avada kedavra on him in GoF was because just that year he had only learned what it did, not really how to use it. Plus, it's a writing thing with JKR. The story HAD to be 7 books long and it would make the story weak if Harry just goes "Avada Kedavra" and Voldemort dies, like it was so easy any wizard could have done it. I don't believe that he ever wanted to kill Draco because when he used that spell on him he didn't even know what it was suppose to do. And like I said before, he's not the killing type of person and never has been. The only reason why he killed Quirrel was because LV was stuck to him, but in PoA he had Sirius Black right at his hands but didn't kill him. He let him explain. And then there was Peter Pettigrew right at his finger tips, but he wouldn't kill him either, the man who betrayed his parents, causing their death. And about the Snape thing, Harry could have easily said "Avada Kedavra" instead of "Sectumsempra" to get Snape. But Sectumsempra isn't a killing curse it can cause death but it's used to severly harm your enemies. And he knew that Snape was the one who fixed Draco's wounds, so Snape could fix his own wounds quickly if the spell hit him. So i do'nt beleive Draco taught Harry anything about the morals of killing. Instead, I think he just taught Harry not to try out an unknown spell on someone if you don't know what it does.

Posted by: You_wont_know_who May 7 2007, 12:20 PM

This thread is not about predictions so its place is in the Great Wizarding Events.

Mobilithreadus!!

LL mod
You_wont_know_who

Posted by: alice25 May 7 2007, 01:15 PM

I really like these ideas; particuarly the one about the scar. I remember questionning his scar a few times before, but it grew to be one of those things I just accepted. Thinking about it now though, it does seem like a plausible idea.

I agree with what has been said about Harry; he is not a murderer. But I think he may be changing his perspective, and maybe becoming slightly more ruthless. We saw his attempt to perform the Cruciatus curse; an attempt that failed. But since then, he has seen Dumbledore die at the hands of people he has grown up with. He may have learnt that he is going to have to kill. If Malfoy had died, if he had killed Snape, Dumbledore would be here helping to defeat Voldemort. If Harry is going to do it alone, he is going to have to "grow up". And whilst his inability to kill would normally be seen as a noble quality, it could end up being his downfall. I like to think he might know that now.

So yes, I kind of agree with the point that in a twisted way Malfoy may have helped him. I wouldn't mind seeing a repeat of the Harry v Malfoy conflict; with this time, Harry standing back and watching Malfoy die. But at the same time, I think of his attitude to Peter and am not sure if he has it in him. We have constant references to the love his mother gave him, and I think this is holding him back somewhat... Oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Posted by: venas May 7 2007, 01:16 PM

I dont think Harry cast that spell to kill Draco nither do I think when he tryed to cast it at Snape he intended to kill him. When Harry chaced after Snape it says somthing about Harry wanting to get Dumbledore and Snape in the same place because he was convinced that if he did the damage could be rectified. Therefore i think he intended to to stop him not kill him. I just think its interesting that after everything he said about the spell being bad he tryed to use it again.

I think it was half blood prince too ware Harry and Dumbledore are descussing the prophacy again. Dumbledore is telling harry that just because the prophacy was made dosnt mean it had to be fullfilled. It was the fact that Voldamort acted on it that made it come true. They descuss the fact that had the events not happened harry would not have wanted to KILL voldamort. Dumbledore tells harry that because Voldamort keeps coming after Harry in the end 1 WILL KILL the other.

I think what happened in the bathroom was the most damage Harry ever caused with a spell. He has had the shock now, he also had the shock of not defeting Draco in time and the devastating results caused because of it. Thats what he learned from Draco. Oh and not to underestimate anyone as Dumbledore did with Draco

Posted by: JustifiablyBrilliant May 7 2007, 01:29 PM

I also think it's interesting that, knowing what the spell does he tried to cast it on Snape. This makes me wonder where Harry's mind was at as he chased after Snape...he must have been feeling a fierce rush of hatred and loathing for him to try that spell on Snape, but on the other hand, I agree with coocanet that he knew in the back of his mind that even if he hit Snape with the spell, it would do little damage as Snape could easily heal himself.

I'm not sure that, even feeling as angry as he must have been at Snape, Harry would have knowingly set out to do irreparable harm to someone.

Posted by: Narya May 7 2007, 02:52 PM

I've just splinched another discussion here to keep the focus on whether Draco Malfoy is bad, or just misunderstood ...

Carry on!

Narya
Leaky Mod

Posted by: JosephElderwood May 7 2007, 04:39 PM

I don't think Draco has really proven if he is good, bad or misunderstood yet.

I know a lot of people will think I am nuts, but just wait.

Lucius Malfoy is obviously evil, I don't think that's any doubt about that. He was a Death Eater, he's vain, sadistic, self centered, narcissistic, racist, has a superiority complex. And Draco grew up with him.

I am sure we all look up to our father's in some way. Draco grew up looking up to Lucuis. He wanted to be like him, like most young boys are with their own fathers. So already Draco was showered with all of these negative emotions and attributes from his father. Not to mention, he was spoiled, pampered, led a sheltered life. That makes for one messed up kid.

He goes to Hogwarts and after being used to being the centre of attention all of his life in some aspect, he has to play second fiddle to Harry Potter. He was jealous of Harry, there's no doubt about that. But jealous isn't a trait of evil, it's a trait of being human. Good or bad, all people feel jealous.

Draco says and does things to show up Harry and his friends to make himself feel good about himself. Even Harry and Ron act like this. They may not go to the lengths that Draco does, but they still feel happy when Draco is shown up etc.

Draco will say and do a lot of things to make his father proud. In an attempt to have his fathers love. To maybe even be respected by him.

Draco couldn't go through with the killing of Dumbledore. The only reason he was trying wasn't because he wanted to be in Voldemort's inner circle. He was doing it out of the love he has for his parents. He said he had to do it otherwise Voldemort would have killed his parents. Someone who has that amount of love inside them, isn't strictly evil.

Draco may turn out to be evil, but I don't really think he has gone one way or another just yet.

Posted by: emo_potter_fan May 7 2007, 04:51 PM

i personaly believe that malfoy is just a bully sneering at othere people and so forth because at the top of the tower he seems so tempted to take dumbledores offer of protection for his family until he is joined by the others and then he is stuck between a rock and a hard place... i also believe that he doesn't have it in him to kill another person he also seems ratehr babyish making pathetic commentslike people bullies would when trying to get themselves out of trouble. also he is a malfoy which is a high name to live up to so he does that with his bullying ways

Posted by: oatis17 May 7 2007, 04:58 PM

I think he is very similar to Regulus Black. From what we have heard from Sirius, Regulus became a death eater and then got into deep. Maybe Regulus was just trying to live up to his parent's expectations. If it was him who left the note then it looked like he was trying to prove himself to Voldemort and work against him.

In regard to Malfoy failing his task and Voldemort's threat to kill his family; could this be similar?

Posted by: venas May 7 2007, 05:32 PM

I think there are only 2 ways the malfoy family can survive now. The first is that Snape dose some very fast talking to Voldamort because he did fail to kill Dumbledore. and Vlodamort will have to be very inpressed that Draco managed to get the death eaters in to hogwarts. The other way is they will have to go into hiding because as Sirious said being a deatheater is not a post you ware you hand in your notice.

I dont think Draco is evil. I agree with Emo_potter_fan. We dont like him but we arnt ment to. When you think back though what has he ever done that was evil? Even trying to get buckbeak killed was not evil he was a 13 year old rich kid who was attacked by an animal and blamed the animal instead of looking at his own behavior to see weather he was to blame.

Posted by: ginnyp0tter May 7 2007, 05:47 PM

hmmmmm. Interesting topic. I believe Draco isn't completely bad. He just got in over his head with LV and the death eaters. He likes to think he can do no wrong, that's for sure. But I definately don't think he's suddenly going to do some great deed and save Harry's life and become best pals with the trio in book 7. More likely he will go into hiding and loose his fortune and get exactly what he deserves.

Posted by: GaryPotter May 8 2007, 12:03 PM

MA: What does it do to you to see a character that you love, for people to express sheer hate -
ES: Or vice versa.
JKR: It amuses me. It honestly amuses me. People have been waxing lyrical [in letters] about Draco Malfoy, and I think that's the only time when it stopped amusing me and started almost worrying me. I'm trying to clearly distinguish between Tom Felton, who is a good looking young boy, and Draco, who, whatever he looks like, is not a nice man. It’s a romantic, but unhealthy, and unfortunately all too common delusion of — delusion, there you go — of girls, and you [nods to Melissa] will know this, that they are going to change someone. And that persists through many women's lives, till their death bed, and it is uncomfortable and unhealthy and it actually worried me a little bit, to see young girls swearing undying devotion to this really imperfect character, because there must be an element in there, that "I'd be the one who [changes him]." I mean, I understand the psychology of it, but it is pretty unhealthy. So, a couple of times I have written back, possibly quite sharply, saying [Laughter], "You want to rethink your priorities here."

So lets see Jo says Draco is not a nice man
Jo says it worries her to see girls swearing undying devotion to a really imperfect character
Jo say its pretty unhealthy - and you need to rethink your priorities.

Sounds to me like Jo things Draco is a little bit more than just misunderstood - sounds to me like she thinks Draco is not nice, he's imperfect and it would be unhealthy to be in love with him.

I'm going to vote for the bad category.

Posted by: phoenix call May 8 2007, 03:04 PM

I dont think Malfoy is bad, but i do think SOMETIMES he is misunderstood

Book 1 = snotty little rich kids who is a bit of a bully
Book 2 = bully, uses his fathers money to buy his glory, show off
Book 3 = uses name, bully etc
Book 4 = bully, show off
Book 5 = power hungry, show off, BULLY
Book 6 = in too deep, vunrable, confused, scared, IDIOT

Posted by: TheEmeraldLady May 10 2007, 01:01 PM

i kind of agree with this. but i believe he is a good person, just misled. he cant help what he was raised to believe.

Posted by: civicryder3 May 10 2007, 02:16 PM

wow great debate you all have some really good points!
here's mine i think that draco will turn good, as of right now he's more in the middle, misunderstood rich kid with a deatheater daddy so he acts the way he was raised as far as the showing off when he became seeker and the bullying but also he was raised in a home that despised harry so naturally he followed in his fathers footsteps, but and here is the beginning of the turning point in my opinon. In HBP he had several opportunities to get harry and or dumbledore but failed at some of the simpliest of tasks such as the necklace intended for harry, you have to think that he could have found a better way to try to get the necklace to harry, secondly the arguements between him and snape, with the attitude he gives and all his procrastination its as if he was holding out as long as he could (maybe unsure of whether he wanted to or thought it was right?? ) and lastly and i think the one of most importance is his failing attempt to kill dumbledore, i think this shows his resistance to the dark side. i think alot of people have taken it as him just being weak and not able for the task but i think its more because even though he hates harry's fame and how highly dumbledore thinks of him, he's jealous and possible seek that admiration considering how often his father put him down specifically once @ the Quiditch world cup when he was bragging about the seats because of this i think part of him didnt want to kill dumbledore and this shows that unlike his father draco is not truly evil. i think in this last book, draco will prove himself either by some means of helping harry or dieing to help him. like some have said honestly what has draco done that was bad other than being a bully??? i could honestly see a battle between draco and his father preventing lucius from killing harry and draco being hurt or killed in the process or him leak info to harry about voldy. or he could truly be as wicked as is father but i dont think he would even have the guts!

Posted by: venas May 10 2007, 03:28 PM

I never said Draco was'nt bad. I said he is'nt evil there is a difference. Draco is a bully. He has been brought up to beleve that he is far more important than other people and his behaviour shows it. I think the likly hood of him crossing the road to spit on Harry if he was on fire is very slim. In my oppinion if he found out Snape was helping Harry he would louse all respect for him. No one has enjoyed Snapes constant bullying of harry more than he has. After waching it for 6 years if he found Snape was infact on Harrys side he would laugh at him.

I don't think the knecklace was ever intended for Harry it was a clumbsy atempt to kill Dumbledore or thats the way i read it. I think Dracos failing to kill Dumbledore is the same thing i was saying about Harrys spell in the bathroom isnt it though? How many axe murders have said the first one is always the hardest? a fair few. I think that had Draco killed Dumbledore he would have become a true death eather and found it easyer and easyer as he killed more. The fact that he could not when the time came means he still has a chance to become good, but as for knowingly helping harry?? or standing in front of HArry so his dad can't kill him not a chance for a start he has'nt got the guts to stand up to his daddy. Pluss i think your forgeting that Voldamort has told his death eaters he is going to kill harry him self. So it wouldnt even be his daddy he was trying to talk out of it it would be Voldamort. Realy can any of you see Draco standing in front of Voldamort saying don't kill harry i like him now.

I stand by what i said maby Harry will have to grudgingly help Draco hide out, But if HArry has to look to Draco for help then im sorry but its bye bye Harry.

Posted by: GaryPotter May 11 2007, 11:32 AM

I have to disagree in part - while I agree Draco can't help how he was raised he should have had contorl over how responeded. Jo has said over and over that one of the themes in the books is Choice. What is right verses what is easy. She has also given several examples where two people in the same situation choose very different paths.

LV and Harry
Both orphaned, raised in an unloving environment, no friends, grew up not knowing there were magical. And Jo shows us it was the choices that were made that dictated who turned out as a bad person and who did not.

Sirius/Draco/Regulas
All came from pureblood background, families with a very strong prejudice against all non-purebloods and again Sirius turned out (grew up) very different from the other two - again because of the decisions he made - doing what was right (rejecting the prejudice line of thinking) verses what was easy (going along with the rest of the family and not getting zapped of the Black Family tree).

So yes, Draco had no control over how he was raised, or what he was taught to believe he did have control over how he responded to those teachings and how HE decided to live his life. So again I think he took the easy way not the right way and that makes him a bad person.

That being said - Draco still has a chance to do the right thing - But I don't think he will.

Posted by: venas May 11 2007, 04:46 PM

It is said that a child who is subjected to 2 languages as a baby will automaticly become fluant in both languages. The same is true of ideas taught well and young enough are followed without question. I think in the case of your examples
eg harry and voldamort. Voldamort was already showing bad signs before he came to hogwarts he was using his magic to punish people who upset him. He got to hogwarts after a very short interview with Dumbledore who tryed to teach him that the things he was doing were not right. After this the teacher who appears to have taken the biggest hand in his education is Slughorn who values power, Frends in high places and getting as much as he can for free. Translate this to Vlody speak and you get take what you can become powerfull. Pluss he was already fluent in scaring people into doing what he wanted them to do by any nessassary means. Voldamorts mother died because she could not go on any more not even for him.

Harry was also doing magic before hogwarts although he did not know it was magic at the time. He was using his magic to protect him self from Dudly from humiliation and also to protect others eg the python who was upset by dudly banging on the glass. When Harry arived at hogwarts it would be fair to say that hagrid was the one who took the biggest hand. Hagrid values frendship and loyalty he would do anything to protect the people he cares for. ALso Harrys mother died to save Harry.

Regalas and sirius grew up in the same house they were taught the same views at home. They both arived at hogwarts with the same values.

Sirius was placed in Griffindore ware he met james and lupin. He became close to them and helped james protect Lupin from being descovered in his secrate. At the age of 11 he would have been young enough to listen to his frends and lean that there are other ways to look at the world than the way his parents viewed it. He also spent much of his holidays with james family who i would asume saw Voldamort as bad.

Regulas was placed in Slitherin with many who had grown up with the same belef system as he had. There for there was no second option for him to consider.

Draco arived at hogwarts having heard all his life about how good it was when Voldamort was in charge. He was told that there is no place for mudbloods in his world. Then he went in to Slitherin ware his parents belefs were upheld by most and posibly the few Slitherins who do not beleve this were ignored anyway.

I do think all these people mentioned had a choice but i also think that had circumstances been different then Regulas and Draco may have chosen differently. After all Regalas turned back we know that so maby draco will too

Posted by: Guardsman Bass May 19 2007, 03:17 AM

Draco and Lucius might both be those unfortunate kinds of people who, because of their background and temperament, don't really develop a concept of an 'equal' - particularly a friend in terms of an equal. If you look at Lucius, he sucks up to those in power, be it Fudge via donations and throwing money around, Voldemort by apology, or even the Wizarding Community after Voldemort was taken down for the first time - but then he oppresses Dobby, and so forth.

Draco seems a lot like the same kind of way, at least initially; the one glimpse we get of him alone with his "friends" in TCoS, he's still bossing them around. That's what makes the whole deal with Moaning Myrtle unusual; he's actually confiding in someone. But it may not be as good as it seems, since Myrtle, being a mostly ignored ghost, is much more of a 'captive' audience than any real friend.

Unfortunately, I agree with a lot of what Narya said way back in this thread. Draco ultimately made his choices, regardless of his background, and they'll probably come back to haunt him.

Posted by: unicorn_lover May 21 2007, 02:35 AM

I really think that everyone has good in them just like Draco. He is just a misunderstood evil idiotic bully but other than that, he's just a normal teenager...

Posted by: Lovelygrl151 May 21 2007, 02:36 PM

Ok but really now lets look at the facts: He lies to get mostly harry in trouble..he doesnt like mudbloods, he was even happy at the fact of what happened in the chamber of secrets now tell me, do you think he will end up to kill like the others? only the part i didnt understand was how he was suppose to kill DD but didnt have the guts maybe he just doesnt know what to do..

Posted by: unicorn_lover May 23 2007, 01:32 AM

I didn't say that he was good...I said he has good in him but he prefers being bad. Maybe he can kill someone if he wants to...I just think he was scared to kill DD. that's all...

Posted by: venas May 23 2007, 06:38 PM

What do you mean that is a normal teenager isnt it? :D . He has bullied Harry. Taken pleasure in bad things that have happened in school and to Harry but i still maintain that its all learned behaviour. Look at the way lucius interacts with the death eaters and look at the way Draco interacts with his frends. Ideas that are set young enough in a childs head are set very firmly. If you think back to there first ever meating on the train to hogwarts (i think) Draco sought Harry out He wanted to make frends. Because in dracos eyes he and harry are inportant. Harry is the boy who lived and Draco is a malfoy so if Harry is on side Draco will be more inportant. However Draco trys to acheve this by puting ron (harrys first ever frend) down. Harry wont join in and instead puts Draco down. Draco is from a prowd family people just dont answer back if your a malfoy so Draco vows to get harry back but every time he has tryed so far it has backfired in some way. Witch makes Draco more determined.

As for becoming a death eater first im not sure he was given much choice voldamort apears to have said wich side are you on and given the situation Draco said yours. Secondly though again it made him feal inportant. He was braging to his frends about it (or as much as he was alowd to say)
Finaly im convinced that draco could have done the killing curse on the tower if he wanted to. Im sure his aunty bella trained him to do that at the same time she tought him to block his mind. I think he didnt because when it came to it he realised he couldnt because killing is a hard thing to do unless you are hardened to it. Dumbledore would have been his first kill. I am sure if he could have resoled to do it though he had the abilaty.

Posted by: firegirl Jun 11 2007, 01:29 AM

Draco Malfoy behaves the way he does because of his upbringing.
He was taught from the very first day of his life to hate all half bloods and muggle borns. and that is why he grew up to be like what he is.

But at the end of HBP we saw that he wasnt as evil as we had taken him to be, he just couldnt bring himself to comit a murder even when not carrying out the task could have cost his and his family's life. And again in the chapter Sectumsempra we saw how vunerable(sp?) he was, crying in the bathroom.
All these things indicate that maybe he will take the good side in the war.
just a thought



And as my location suggests
I LOVE YOU DRACO

Posted by: ginny weasly Jun 11 2007, 04:20 AM

well i dont exactly say that draco is a sweet honey pie but he definitely had some good in him he dint kill dumbledore i think he couldn't have even if snape didnot kill DD I mean a person who intends to kill willnot stand there and tell story on how he succeeded and etc this shows he was not really willing to do so he was just afraid of LV..and i think we'll definitely see some change in draco in book 7 even harry took pity on him in the end..

Posted by: bravegriffindor Jun 11 2007, 05:11 AM

I've always rather liked him. Draco was raised up to behave the way he behaves. (Thinking that Muggle-borns are scum, supporter od LV, etc) Inside I believe he is just a normal teenager. Anyway, he showed that he had some good in him when he didn't kill Dumbledore immediately. So I think he's misunderstood.

Posted by: secunda Jun 15 2007, 02:03 AM

First: Sirius was raised to hate muggles, but he didn´t.

But I want to ask something. Where is the thread about Draco´s Dark Mark.

Because in HBP when he tries to hide his left arm from madam maulkins he refuses to let her roll up the sleeve, but the very next moment he pulls the dress robe over his head. How´s that? I mean wouldn´t now everybody see the Mark? What is he wearing under the dress robe?

Posted by: fly_away Jun 15 2007, 07:07 AM

[size=2]i think that while draco malfoy doesn't act like a normal teenager, given that he is a WIZARD, he can only act the way that he was brought up. Its the same, i have a firned, and im not mentioning names, but her family is extremely racist, and because that's the way she grew up, thats the only thing that she knows, and so she has the predudice, without even realizing it. Therefore bringing back the issue at hand, its not draco's fault that he acts the way he does, you can blame Lucius and narcissa for that.
The must be some good in him somewhere, for he couldn't kill dumbledore when he had the chance. I think that while he isn't a killer, or evil like his father, he he is just a misunderstood teen, who has never been shown love, compassion or guidence, and therefore acts without thinking, not knowing the right things to say or to do

Posted by: CoolCatElly Jun 18 2007, 07:20 AM

I think he is nothing more than he was brought up to be. I am willing to bet that if Ron had Lucius as a father he would have been just as bad. Yes, as DD said, it is our choises who define who we are, and he has not chosen to change. However, I believe there is hope still, he did chose not to kill DD, after all. I do however love him sooooo much, he is my favourite charecter along with hermione and of course harry. But I don't think he is just misunderstood. He is bad, but he might change now...

Posted by: Lilith Darrinflame Jul 17 2007, 01:47 PM

We know that Voldemort threatened Draco's family, but why didn't he just say "He'll Kill My Parents!" Did Voldemort include Aunt Bellatrix or anyone else in that threat? Book Six mentioned Draco learning something from Bellatrix, but does she know Voldemort's willing to off her to punish Draco? Seems like he has more use for her than that.

The other part of Draco's family, that we haven't seen but only heard mentioned, are Tonks and Andromeda. Both burned out of the Black Family Tapestry, of course, since Andromeda married a muggle. But did the Malfoys really cut all ties with her once the matriarch of the Blacks died? Does Narcissa perhaps still talk to Andromeda and encourages Draco to as well?

Draco seems to keep appearances of being cold and aloof fairly well. Yet in Book Six he's in the bathroom, talking and crying in front of a muggle girl - the same one he proudly stated died in CoS. And Myrtle, though a ghost who seems to take delight in misery, finds Draco 'sensitive' and 'lonely' and expresses hope he'll come back. How far do his claims of snobbery and prejudice actually go? As the son of a Death-Eater, Draco has probably had to grow up with contempt and subtle insults thanks to his father's actions. He's learned to hide himself and his true feelings very well, which explains his gift at Occlumency.

The question is, how much is he really hiding? I'm guessing he started to push people away from him like Harry started to in Book Five, all the better so they couldn't hurt him in the end. If they weren't fanatical about being pure-bloods or about Death-Eaters, they weren't going to accept him or understand him. Perhaps it was a choice between dressing the part as a wolf or getting bitten.

That's not to say he isn't a sneaky little thief, coward, and blaggard - but doesn't it seem at points in the book where Draco's trying a little too hard to be a Slytherin? Right from the start in Madam Malkin's shop, he falls back on the old pureblood prejudices as a way of conversation as if going "Crap! There's a kid my age going to my school right across from me and I don't want to look uncool because I look stupid enough as it is standing here getting fitted, what do I say that's cool? What what what? Oh I know! Let's make fun of other people! Yay!" And he's not just doing that, but he's actually asking - as if approval. "I think this about that subject . . . don't you? I'd die if this happened - wouldn't you?" Seeking approval for his thoughts. Desperate for it, even. And he doesn't even know this other kid is Harry Potter yet. When Harry doesn't really respond, Draco panics a little and then sees Hagrid and makes fun of him to get the negative attention off himself.

Of course when he does find out, he tries to make amends by offering his 'esteemed' knowledge and aid for getting to know people who are out to get him, or out to use him (like he is planning to, a little, but nothing bad in his mind). And Harry of course, having taken offense, turns him down flat. To Draco, this might've been misunderstood as Harry telling him "I've heard about your sort. One of the Malfoys aren't you? Yeah, I've heard everything." Which shut down all the open channels Draco might've had toward a friendship between them and a new slate for his family.

If Harry Potter doesn't like you, that's bad news. Everyone else is going to follow suit. Draco thought he'd head it off by being just as nasty as he figured Harry Potter really was, mostly to hide his hurt. And it certainly got him attention and loyalty from the other Slytherins, even some of the older ones. Draco Malfoy is a boy who will change himself for you and go behind your back at the same time to make sure he's liked. And if you by chance snub or upset him, he'll do everything in his power to make you feel just as unliked so he doesn't slip down the social ladder beneath you. Being disliked terrifies him.

And Voldemort promised to take away the only people in his life he doesn't have to worry about being himselfaround. Lucius and Narcissa and Draco may be cold to each other outwardly, but they're protecting themselves. Draco attacking Harry over a slight against his mother and the imprisonment of his father, saying he's going to 'bully' his father into getting him a broom . . . these are not the signs of a sad little abused boy. Lucius and Narcissa dote on him in a way that makes him loyal enough to die for them. Neither of them wants to be turned into a weapon against the other, but Voldemort is doing just that. He's found the Malfoy's weakness under all the layers of ice, and he's probably found secrets that could turn the other Death Eaters against them. If Draco and Narcissa do contact 'Auntie' Andromeda or other 'blacked out' family members, I'm sure Bellatrix would have something to say about it. But they can keep secrets and Bellatrix certainly doesn't know 'Cissy' like she thinks she does.

So back to the original topic (sorry I trailed off, it was just so much fun), does anyone else think what Draco considers 'family' might be actually larger and less wholesomely pureblood than others are led to think?

Posted by: fenix felicis Jul 17 2007, 06:41 PM

i can see why draco dislikes harry. after all, draco offered harry guidance & friendship in the very beginning and harry rejected him. yes, draco beliefs were misguided but how could they not be knowing his family? he was offering the best of what he was taught to give. and harry's treatment of draco really does nothing to help draco change his pureblood mania and give half or muggle borns a chance.

but i still have hope for draco. we dont always have to follow our parents' ways.

Posted by: Reese Ambition Jul 17 2007, 09:42 PM

Draco is a prejudiced bully with a superiority complex, but that's really as far as his "evil" goes. I'm just sick of so many people saying that he is so evil and that he serves LV willingly. What part of him crying in the bathroom, not killing DD and telling him that he and his parents would be killed did they not understand? It's almost as if some people love to try and make antogonists one-dimensional.

I don't think Draco has the capacity to be Voldemort-style evil. There is a vast difference between someone who talks the talk and walks the walk, like JKR said. Draco was quite happy to go along with the whole DE-hate-mudbloods-and-muggles thing until he realised just how dangerous and frightening it was. That certainly shows that he's very much human and not some evil being Harry has to defeat.

Lilith Darrinflame, awesome first post! Welcome to Leaky!

I liked the point about Myrtle. I'd never thought of that. If he really did hate someone like Myrtle, he would have told her to piss off, plain and simple, but he didn't. Jeez that boy is getting complex...

I'd like to think that their family is larger and a little less "pure" than first assumed. That's probably just being romantic though.

I love you.

Posted by: I12BMagic Jul 17 2007, 11:30 PM

Bravo to the past few posts, especially Lilith Darrinflame. I also go along with the children learn what they live theory ... he doesn't know any better, that's what he grew up with. I think that to Draco, the whole dark arts thing, in theory, is, as someone described, 'darkly glamorous'. When the reality of it starts to set in, he gets a different picture altogether. As DD says, it's our choices that define us, I believe Draco will choose to switch sides.

Another think to think about is ... all the information we get is from Harry's perspective. Most bullys have usually been bullied ... we don't see what happens to Draco around the older Slytherin boys, do we?

I used to always tell my kids ~ there's three sides to every story ... one person's, the other person's ..... and the truth, which is usually somewhere in the middle.

Posted by: GaryPotter Jul 18 2007, 11:32 AM

Jo gave us her take on Draco being bad or not in the Memerson Inveterview

To sum it up Jo says:
It worries her when people express love (waxing lyrical) for Draco
Draco is not a nice man
It worries her that young girls swear devotion to an impefect character

Jo seems pretty sure that the Draco character is bad - I'm sure she doesn't misunderstand him.

Posted by: Alraune Jul 18 2007, 11:43 AM

She also said the only character beyond any potential of redemption was Voldemort--Draco, while not a nice person at all, isn't necessarily an always bad forever and ever character. The potential to change is important, too. Whether or not he acts on it clearly is up to his creator, Jo.

I don't think Draco's misunderstood. I just think he needs to wise up a bit and pull his head from his bum. I think the shock of having his father taken away and his mother so frightened about his welfare really threw the spoiled git for a loop. Made him realize that his comfy life isn't as well-cushioned as he previously envisioned. Perhaps he'll come 'round. .. I should hope he would.

Posted by: Lilith Darrinflame Jul 18 2007, 12:09 PM

Thanks everyone for the kind welcomes.

I can see why Jo is worried about girls waxing lyrical about Draco and writing fanfic - because . . . have you seen some of the fics out there? >.o; They focus on the blond-haired grey-eyed looks and not what's underneath. It worries her because that's how abusive relationships start in real life. Girls start weighing looks against personality.

A girl's fanfic character for instance will go up to Draco and bat her eyes and whether she be muggle, house-elf, centaur, or Transformer-Sue from the Dimension of Pie, he'll stop whatever dark magic he's doing, chase after her, and within the week he'll be owling letters home about his new bride-to-be. His whole outlook on purebloodedness will be shot, all because he's found twu wuv.

Jo's not worried about them liking a character she doesn't mean to be liked, so long as they actually admit to themselves that character isn't a wonderful guy. While I still stand firm that Draco has the capability to love his own family and the few friends he may have, even the ones that are imperfect, he's still outwardly cold, insecure, and a snake. I like him because I can see how he'd grow up to become that warped and messed up. To me, that makes him sympathetic. However, that doesn't mean I would ever run up and hug him or try to kiss him! (It would be robbing the cradle for one thing, I'm 25. XD)

I think she's worried about the fangirls of Draco because they don't really admit to themselves how twisted up he is and choose to ignore his faults and meanness in favor of his supposed handsomeness. That really is troubling.

Posted by: Wizard_waker Jul 18 2007, 12:28 PM

I think Draco is inbetween bad and misundertsood.

Draco seems to be bad based upon what his parents taught him and what he heard from them. It just seems like his parents prejudice passed down through him. He's got this view that wizards and witches of muggle born parentage should not even be allowed into Hogwarts, which we see with his father more than his mother. I think that in the beginning his views of evil, or "bad" are that of one who doesn't know to much about it. He wants to be like his parents and live up to their legacy, good and bad, and doesn't realize what being "bad" actually requires. Doing things you're not really comfortable with.

Posted by: red pen Jul 18 2007, 02:06 PM

That's a good point. Draco is really just doing what he grew up around. But he has still yet to do something that will set him apart from "bully" and into the realm of "evil." Because with evil, I think, there has to be no remorse, no "feeling bad" on the part of the person who commited the crime. That, for me, is "evil."

Posted by: dracos_gurl87 Jul 18 2007, 06:59 PM

I never personally said that Draco Malfoy was evil, but I do think that he is a bully. I think the only reason why Draco is being a bully is because his father is one of Lord Voldemorts most loyal Deatheaters so I think that his father is making him be a deatheater and I don't think Draco wants to be. And so I think when Draco's father gets landed in Azkaban Draco will switch sides and join the Order of the Phoenix and join the Golden Trio on their journey to fight Lord Voldemort!

Posted by: Chocolatl Jul 18 2007, 07:12 PM

I think Draco is a troubled teenager who is in love with the idea of being bad but is not so enchanted with the reality. He's a mess, but he may be salvageable.

Posted by: flooedout Mar 23 2008, 07:25 AM

I think that in the Wizarding World people stay children longer than in our world. And I think Draco, is just a child.

And children aim to please their parents - or in Draco's case - save their parents ... ie his father.

Posted by: Alysaw Mar 23 2008, 07:41 AM

I would have to disagree about Wizarding folks staying children longer because we know they come of age a year earlier than non-wizarding people. I do agree that Draco wanted to please his parents and imitate his father especially. He was an arrogant bully who, while Harry lay helpless on the floor of the Hogwart's compartment, smashed his face with his foot. He left Harry bleeding with a broken nose. He wasn't, however, a murderer and I believe, in the end, the part of him that was decent emerged. I hope he went on to become a better man and learned from his experiences.

Posted by: MsFrankIero Mar 23 2008, 08:34 AM

It is hard to say he is 'bad' (I mean he's my favorite character!!)
Harry and Draco were enemies, enemies are mean to each
other. So his hatred for Harry is understandable. You also have
to put in account Malfoys dad. You take after your parents... at
least some of you does. Malfoy is misunderstood too.
I do Mafloy... 100% evil or not.

Posted by: roonwit Mar 23 2008, 08:59 AM

I don't think Draco was ever really evil. He had a certain meanness to him throughout the books, but it was only in HBP that he graduated to planning to do acts that were properly evil, but in the end he found out in the reality of attempting to do them that they were too extreme for him, and I think that would have caused him to rethink that area of his life.

Posted by: Gllysa Mar 23 2008, 12:24 PM

Draco is a product of the environment he grew up in. He spouts all of the pure-blood stuff because that's what he's heard as a child. He's a bully because that's what he sees from Lucius. He is proud of his DE heritage and only too happy to join up. He had no idea what he was getting himself into, though. He thought that being a DE was all glory. When he found out what they were really all about, he changed his tune fast. Draco had a pretty good reality check throughout HBP and DH. He changed for the better afterwards. He'll never be the man that Harry is, but he did come back to the good side. He deserves some credit for that.

Posted by: harrydavid Mar 23 2008, 12:37 PM

Actually, I view Draco as bad to the bone. The only reason he turned around was that his father lost favor with Voldemort, who started treating them horribly. If his father had stayed in tight with Voldemort, I have no doubt that he would have grown into a faithful Death Eater. Remember, even toward the end of Deathly Hallows, he was trying to capture Harry for Voldemort. Not exactly the actions of a person who has seen the light.

Posted by: HedwigIsntDead Mar 23 2008, 12:38 PM

I think that's a brilliant way to put it Gllysa.
It seems to me that it is not actually Draco's fault he is how he is throughout the books. He has grown up throughout his childhood with this pure-blood madness that his mother and father have taught him and therefore thinks anything different to that is wrong.
I expect that Draco has also grown up being bullied by his father and this will obviously have some sort of effect on how he treats his friends and enemies when he arrives at Hogwarts.
When he became a Death Eater he was happy to join up as this is what Lucius does; although he was happy to do this i do not think he ever had it within himself to be able to kill somebody. The way i think of it is that he could 'talk the talk' but as soon as he's asked to 'walk the walk' he cannot do it.
I think after Deathly Hallows he has somewhat changed his ways and agrees to the new running of the wizarding world.
I don't think he will ever like Harry but i think we see in the epilogue that they both seem to have accepted that they are both 'there' and can do nothing about this and therefore may as well get a long.

Posted by: Dora87 Mar 23 2008, 12:55 PM

That's exactly what I think about him. I'm not trying to "defend" him, he isn't a pure and innocent boy. He knows how to hurt weaker people, and he apparently enjoys it. But in my opinion this depends greatly on the education he has received.



I agree with you. After all, Draco is still a young boy. He's less mature than Harry, of course, but we have seen that in the end he proves able to change. I would define it as a kind of "redemption".

Posted by: birdi86 Mar 24 2008, 03:07 AM

Disagree. Firstly, JKR has said otherwise. Secondly, he proved in HBP that he didn't have the makings of a faithful Death Eater when he couldn't kill Dumbledore. That didn't change in DH.

If Lucius had never gone to Azkaban, I doubt very much that Draco would have become a Death Eater at all. I doubt it's something his parents wanted for him and there'd be no impetus if it wasn't for Lucius' failure in the DoM in OOTP.

As for trying to capture Harry, Draco was doing such a bad job of it that Crabbe looked more competent. As soon as he gets inside he wants to go after the diadem instead and he prevents Crabbe from casting Crucio on Harry - even though that would have helped them capture him. He went in the RoR to capture Harry but, just like that fateful night on the Astronomy Tower, he clearly had second thoughts.

Posted by: harrydavid Mar 24 2008, 03:57 PM

Would you tell me where Jo said this, I can't seem to find it. Also, incompetence doesn't indicate second thoughts, just incompetence.

Posted by: Eden08 Mar 25 2008, 07:42 AM

Think Malfoy has second thoughts when he disarms a weakened Dumbledor in the end of the 6th book.
And when Lucius asks him to really make sure it´s Harry they have capture he really seems sorry for the evil deeds he has done..
I don't believe Draco a killer just misguided by his parents.

Posted by: GaryPotter Mar 27 2008, 12:18 PM

JKR was quoted in the Memerson interview after HBP - the bolding is mine



If Jo says Draco is not nice, imperfect, its unhealthy - I got to go with her - he is bad.





I agree Draco is a product of his environment but one of the main themes of the story is choices - Do whats right not whats easy. Sirius grew up in the same (if not not worse) kind of environment as Draco and he managed to make the right choice. Harry and Tom Riddle had almost the same upbringing (orphans, no love at home, outcast, etc) and again the strength of character - the choices - won out over the "environment he grew up in". Draco had it hard but so did Harry and Sirius and they managed to make the right choices. Draco chooses to be mean (he hoped Mione would die in COS) because it take less work and less strength of characer.

Posted by: Dancing Mooncalf Apr 4 2008, 08:51 PM

He's bad. I love Draco Malfoy fanfiction as much as the next person, but I think those who insist he's just misunderstood have allowed it to rot their brains, lol. I also think JKR is totally right that some who insist he's just misunderstood only do so because they have this misguided notion that "bad boys need love too" and that "they can change him." Having said that...he's still one of my fave characters

I don't think by the end of DH's he was evil though, still a coward and still a jerk, but not evil.

Posted by: birdi86 Apr 5 2008, 01:02 AM

In her interview where she http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1572399/20071019/story.jhtml.



There you go. He would not have killed Dumbledore, he wanted to come over to the other side, he tried to protect Harry and he's not wholly bad.

Posted by: Elenath Apr 9 2009, 03:38 AM

I guess it's a combination of both.... It's easy to say it all depends on the choices you make, but it takes a lot of courage to change from everything you have ever known to the exact opposite.

People here have compared Draco to both Harry, Sirius en Voldie... Those are tough comparisments to make. Voldie seems like the classic psychopath. He can't feel emotions, and that has nothing to do with his opbringing. It seems that even if Voldie had grown up in a loving home, he'd still have the same problem.

Harry didn't really have much of an upbringing. At least not untill a came to school. There it started in Gryffindor and he was surrounded by people who believe in equality. Makes one wondewhat would have happened if he had ended up in Slytherin....

Sirius had a typical Slytherin upbringing and being the rebel that he was, he choose to do the exact opposite of what his parents wanted. In Gryffindor he was influenced (in a good way) by James and Remus. Since 11 is an age where children are still easily influenced, so that helped him make a 180 turn.

Draco on the other hand did have a pureblood upbringing and that same upbringing was continued in Slytherin. He never had to change untill the moment on that tower. As far as he knows what he did is right. His mother seems loving but Lucius really doesn't. I guess Draco learned he should hide his emotions and he became really good at it. The downside of his upbringing is also that there are certain expectations he had to fullfill. And those expectations can be really high.

Is Draco a good person??? No not really... Is Draco a bad person? Hardly.. Like most of us he is stuck somewhere in the middle.

Posted by: GaryPotter Apr 9 2009, 11:49 AM

Is Draco bad (evil) no I don’t think so – he did finally show some remorse/concern on the top of the tower. And he certainly had love and concern for his family. But he was more than just misunderstood, he was certainly a victim of his surroundings and upbringing but he also had lots and lots of choices to make and he did seem to pick what was easy more often than what was right.

Birdi86 quoted Jo in an interview where she basically said Draco is not wholey bad but he isn’t good either. I’ll quote Jo from the Memerson interview (July 16, 2005).

Jo refers to him as “not a nice man”, “imperfect character”.

Draco is not a nice man, he is mean, self centered, elitist, prejudice, but he wound never kill his family (like some other evil character who shall not be named) just like he couldn’t (wouldn’t) kill DD. To say he was just misunderstood I think forgives him too easily for too many bad things he did, instead of choosing the right thing.

Posted by: RaWr...WeReWoLf Apr 9 2009, 12:01 PM

I think Malfoy is bad, but not bad enough to be called evil. He's bad most of the time, but he can be nice when he wants to be, just like anybody else.

Posted by: Seven of Nine Apr 9 2009, 02:28 PM

Harry didn't have a nice upbringing, but he has a nice character. Children who have been abused too often grow up to be abusers. Harry could so easily have been one, and as such he would have fit in very well with the kids we were shown from Slytherin.

But Harry was really a lot more like Lily, and she was a very decent person. So when Harry came to Hogwarts, rather than choosing to be an abuser/bully he instead chose to be a champion of the abused (i.e. Neville). Go Harry!

Draco wasn't as strong as Harry. I think he wanted very much to be like his father, and in a way, he was. Lucius turned out to be rather weak too--in spite of his arrogance about his money and social position. I don't think Narcissa is a nice person either, but she was certainly stronger. I think it's from her that Draco finally got his strength in the end.

Posted by: Eva Hedwig Apr 9 2009, 05:28 PM

I think that Percy and Draco are similar in beeing weak and wanting power over others, with the difference that one grew up poor the other rich and snobby. If Percy would have been a Malfoy he would turn out the same as Draco.

Draco is a law to himself, helped by his father, Snape, Crab, Goyle.. and is only stopped in his "highness" by V. himself, who subdued him and tyrannized him cruelly. I think this made him a bit more human, but as Jo said it's not so enough to just love somebody and thanks to this the person transforms into an angel.

Draco would not have changed much after V. died, maybe he was more prudent and less humilating with others. His son is Scorpius, so the family tradition would go on.

Posted by: cooncatbob Apr 9 2009, 05:51 PM

I don't like Draco, but he's not beyond redemption.
As Dumbledore told him at the tower, it one thing to talk of killing someone, it's a totally different thing to look them in the eye and kill them.
Draco's not a killer, he and his family learned a hard lesson.
Be careful what you wish for because you may get it.
The Dark Lord shares power with none, his follower follow orders or pay the price.
The Malfoys found the price high and not to their liking.
Now the family name is mud, now Draco would be best served trying to rehabilitate the family name so maybe someday his son will be able to have some influence.

Posted by: Heiress0fSlytherin Apr 14 2009, 07:47 PM

Draco is my favorite character because of the depth of his built up characterization..okay yeah so theree is something attractive in the bad boy but still!
i think draco is afraid of what other people are capable of doing. he grew up in a household where his father was "second best" seeing as how he was a follower of voldemort, but when voldie wasnt aorund, his father was "# 1" making him a bit two sided. draco obviously picked up the "#1" side so draco probably feels that he can act the same way towards other people but his mother who seems to be a sensitive and cautious woman probably spent more time with Draco then Lucious would and did. So Draco is the result of two COMPLETELY oppisite "personalitied" parents..but again thats just my opinion..course Jo's matters more
;)

Posted by: sTiTcH Apr 22 2009, 12:33 AM

i used to really hate draco.. and maybe i still do.. but after the final book, i dont think draco is really EVIL, so much as annoying. you can laugh at him for ultimatly not being able to walk his talk, but i think that in itself says something about his character. he COULDNT do those evil things when it really came down to it, and he couldnt even face the prospect of handing in the one person who always KNEW this was the wrong route.. he started to loose quite alot of his resolve in the last book, and only flared up again in the face of restoring his families honor and SAFTY.

i dont think i'd exactly call him misunderstood, ..i think he's easy enough to understand, but i wouldnt call him bad either.. just misguided.

Posted by: Nymphabelle Apr 22 2009, 02:25 AM

I don't think Malfoy was all bad, but was raised that way.
He was forced to become a follower of voldermort, because of his "pure-blood ancestors" all of which were followers of voldermort.

He wasn't misunderstood either. he was just struggling to become as mean and powerful as his father.

People feared Malfoy, and he was proud of that.
Maybe being feared of, was what malfoy thought was "Popular"
Nobody bossed Malfoy always had the power over others. Malfoy didn't even go easy on his friends, Crabbe and Goyle.

Prehaps being bossy, and bullying, was Malfoys way of communicating, and he couldn't change the way he was, or he didn't want to?

Slytherins must have dreamt to be like Malfoy, and Draco, living up to his father expectations, had no choice.

Malfoy was not bad, just being mean was who he was.
Malfoy was not misunderstood, just people didn't realise that Malfoy had no choice, he had to live up to his fathers requiments.

Posted by: IcklEshAIrAkIns May 3 2009, 10:04 PM

I think he was bad or whatever you call that. Bullying or being mean is being bad whatever way you look at it, he is still bad, and he wasn't misunderstood. He is bad but maybe not evil.

Posted by: HalfBloodPrince-et May 6 2009, 12:07 AM

No he's not bad or evil. I feel very sorry for Draco. I don't think it's really his fault that he could be an arse sometimes.

Having Voldemort constantly in his life in one way or another, having his father bully him and his entire family push him to be evil. It's just not a great way to grow up.

Posted by: GryffindorRulez May 6 2009, 02:55 PM

I've never paid much attention to Draco. I hope I won't insult any Draco fans, but I've always considered Draco a bit of a minor character whose main purpose is to give Harry a recognisable opponent at Hogwarts. I probable don't give Draco enough credit, because JKR does teach us a couple of moral lessons through him.

I think very few people can be really called evil (except for Voldemort) so I'd like to replace that word with criminal. Being a Death Eater is being criminal. Draco was spoilt rotten by his parents and he's also been raised with the wrong norms and values. He is the product of a failed upbringing. Like Dudley he creates a gang and behaves like a failed teenager, destined to become a criminal. But he doesn't get that far. He turns away from crime and, as far as the Epilogue gives anything away, seems to have become a reasonably respectable citizen (albeit one whose names will serve as a stigma for a while).

Posted by: wickedboy May 6 2009, 04:47 PM

I agree that Draco was cowardly and weak at times, but I think the comparison to Harry is unfair. I am wondering if "Go Harry!" was the response when he used a spell marked "for enemies" sight, unseen and untried against Draco and nearly killed him. Or for even standing their watching his enemy cry and not taking off, but waiting for Draco to see him and be humiliated - wouldn't he expect the consequence would be a hex war? And when he hid beneath his invisibility cloak and toss hard balls at Draco...or when he joined his friends on the Quidditch pitch to physically attack Draco and friends for their verbal bullying. Or when he stood laughing in the crowd when Draco was turned into a ferret? Or when he grew Goyle's toenails for fun? Or when he TWICE used his nifty new jinxes on Filch, humiliating him before a crowd and laughed with them at the humiliated Squib, or when he tossed a firecracker in Goyle's potion and it went off? Or when he with his friends gave Crabbe and Goyle tainted candy that knocked them out, then kidnapped and hid them while he and Ron pretended to be them, illegally got into Slytherin and fooled and spied on Draco (who was actually up to nothing at the time)? Or when he and his buddies hexed Draco all together in retaliation then stepped ON his body as they left the train...er twice?



Um...I wonder if that is the kind of stuff Lily did...I don't think so. Perhaps Harry was a lot more like his father than he or Dumbledore liked to think. He was a little Marauder, make no mistake about it. And he was up to the ongoing battles with Draco.

So while Draco was a little budding Death Eater and also as bad as Harry when it came to the hex wars - and cowardly and selfish and cruel at times, I don't see him as a lost cause. He came about in the end - perhaps still not a perfect specimen of humanity, but his maturing and growth in the series was pretty good for him - after all, he could have ended up like Lucius or Bella...

Posted by: ysabeeeel ! May 6 2009, 08:18 PM

I think he's sort of a mixture of both. :>
But when I read HBP, when he was about to kill Dumbledore, I changed my mind about him. I don't really think he's evil or such.

Posted by: xHJPFanx Jun 3 2009, 08:44 AM

Harry did not have a good life growing up. He was raised by people who didn't care about him in the least. But he decides to do good.


Malfoy did also not have a good life. His family was pressuring him to do evil. But he decides to do bad.

That's the main difference between Harry and Malfoy.

So, according to my points, saying Malfoy is not evil is the same thing as saying Harry is not doing all good. So, I beileve Malfoy makes evil chocies and Harry makes good chocies, and that's what makes up their own characters.

Posted by: ChristianWizardWorld Jun 16 2009, 04:31 PM

I think he's an absolute git, and nothing will change that. Perhaps it's my immature view of life or the fact that I have to put up with someone just as antagonistic as Draco at school, but I absolutely hate how Draco gets away with personally insulting Harry & friends. That said, one of my favorite parts of the 4th book is when he is turned into a ferret.

Yep, that was my response - "Go Harry!" I've learned that words hurt, and you can't blame Harry for doing all of that stuff when Draco pre-payed that abuse tenfold with his insults. I mean, seriously, is there ANY decency at all in that kid?

Granted, some of that hate was because of Snape, but since Draco enjoyed Snape's unfairness to Harry anyway, I hate him all the same.

Posted by: 3dfan Jul 6 2009, 02:02 AM

Definitely misunderstood - with such father it is completely obvious to me - If only Harry shaked his hand...

Posted by: lollylou Jul 6 2009, 07:22 AM

Ok i could talk for years on the topic so im just going to keep it short.

Draco Malfoy is neither bad nor misunderstood. Everyone has bad and good inside of them (sound familiar lol). Draco i feel does what he needs to do to stay alive. Albeit he couldve made better choices but he did what he thought he had to do to protect his family and himself. I dont think he ever recieved true generosity so i think he felt know one would ever give it to him or that he could trust someone enough with his failings. He could only rely on himself alot of the time so he did the only thing he felt he could do.
This is how i sum up Draco as a person and the reason behind his choices...
Draco Malfoy = Teenager

Posted by: Fry_Fan Jul 6 2009, 07:22 AM

A true product of his environment, all he ever wanted to do was impress the people who were important to him....as talented as hermione, and as loyal as Ron.

Posted by: cooncatbob Jul 6 2009, 02:14 PM

Why should Harry have shaken his hand?
Draco has just insulted his new friend Ron and Ron's family and basically asked Harry to make a choice, Harry chose wisely.
He saw that Draco was just a skinny Dudley.

Posted by: Draco4eva Jul 6 2009, 03:02 PM

I think you're being a bit unfair ... I always luved Draco but thought he was a bit of an idiot. Howeva, recently i've been rereading the books, thinking about things from Draco's point of view ... And, i may just be a mean horrible person but I've discovered that if I was in the similiar situation, I would have acted roughly the same. But then what do expect from people like us...

Sarah
SFTC!!

Posted by: harrydavid Jul 6 2009, 09:24 PM

Just because you love Draco doesn't make what cooncatbob said unfair. It seems to me that his comments were perfectly accurate. Draco was a bully and was quite arrogant. Harry read him correctly in Madam Malkin's and on the train. He was right to want nothing to do with him.

Posted by: Mrs_Linnea_Snape Jul 10 2009, 05:09 AM

I think you're being entirely too hard on Harry here. In each of these cases, Harry's behavior is hardly noble, but there is a huge difference between him and Draco. Draco deliberately sets out to hurt and humiliate people, with premeditation and malice aforethought. Harry hardly ever deliberately sets out to "get" Draco, and when he does, his pranks are really pretty innocuous. I mean, throwing snow/mud balls? That's child's play. I really don't understand how you could have a problem with that.

As for the rest:

1) Attacking Draco on the Quidditch pitch? I certainly can't justify it, but I think it's important to understand that nobody, nobody can keep their temper 100% of the time.

2) Laughing when Draco got turned into a ferret? The text never says that Harry laughs, so this is merely an assumption.

3) Jinxing Filch? Filch is an adult. If you can't handle children making fun of you once in awhile, then you have no business working in a school. There isn't a teacher on earth who hasn't had a prank or two pulled on them.

4) The firecracker into Goyle's potion. Not nice, but he didn't do it just for the sake of being mean, as Draco would have done. He needed a distraction that would give Hermione enough time to swipe the Polyjuice ingredients. Simply spilling the stuff wouldn't have worked, as it would've taken Snape about a nanosecond to vanish it.

5) Using Polyjuice potion to get into the Slytherin common room and trick Draco into talking. I don't really understand the problem with this. Neither Draco, Crabbe, nor Goyle were in any way hurt or humiliated by the Trio's actions. In fact, they never had any clue it even happened. And, again, the Trio didn't do this for a prank -- they were on a very serious mission to find out who was trying to kill all the Muggleborn students.

6) Hexing Draco, Crabbe and Goyle on the train? Harry had nothing to do with that. He didn't know his friends were going to help him. And he didn't even hex Draco et al himself. He didn't have time to get his wand out. Furthermore, nobody stepped on Draco et al. They "hoisted them into the luggage racks and left them there to ooze," (OotP, USA edition, p864).

7) The bolded one (originally I was just going to respond to that one). First of all, Harry did not "stand there watching his enemy cry and not taking off, but waiting for Draco to see him and be humiliated." Harry was only standing there for a matter of moments (for the duration of 2 sentences, actually). The reason he didn't leave instantly was that, "...he realized, with a shock so huge it rooted him to the spot, that Malfoy was crying," (HBP, USA edition, p522). He was completely dumbstruck to see his enemy cry, and thus became frozen, unable to move.

As for using Sectumsempra, it seems that that was merely the first spell that popped into his head. He didn't even know what it would do. So he's guilty of criminal stupidity, maybe, but not malice.

8) The toenails incident. Okay, I'll give you that one. But really, if that's the most inexcusable thing Harry's ever done, then he's still nicer than most of us.

Posted by: GaryPotter Jul 13 2009, 12:02 PM

JKR told us way back on July 16, 2005 what she thought about Draco

The bolding is mine - JKR says it worries hers to hear "People have been waxing lyrical [in letters] about Draco Malfoy". If he was only misunderstood then I don't see how this would worry her, instead JKR use words and phrases like

worrying me
not a nice man
unhealthy (3 times in the above quote)
uncomfortable
really imperfect character
"You want to rethink your priorities here"

These are all JKR's thoughts on Draco and/or a relationship with him - seems a little strong if he was only misunderstood.

Is it his fault? - Not entirely. Draco is certainly a product of his environment and upbringing but just like LV, Dudley, and Harry he had the chance to choose between what was right and what was easy and he certainly did not choose what was right.