Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Mary Wanguard Jun 23 2008, 05:57 AM

Tolkien has created a lot of interesting characters – Bilbo, Gandalf, the dwarves... But there's someone else who probably isn't a real character because, well, it doesn't "do" anything and it doesn't have any "body" either. But if the book didn't have it, there wouldn't be any Hobbit's story at all. It's the narrator – the story teller, the voice which tells us Bilbo's story.

As the narrator doesn't act in the story, it tells the story from the third person's point of view. It also knows everything that happens (it doesn't just follow a particular character, but knows what happens to everyone), that is, it's omniscient, it knows everything. It introduces us to Hobbits, explains some customs and traditions of the Middle Earth. But it doesn't just observe and recount what is happening. The story teller has its own opinion about things and it's not impartial (for example, one can tell quite fast that it doesn't like the goblins and that it sympathizes with Bilbo). From time to time, the story teller also addresses the reader, for example, from chapter Barrels Out of Bond (when Bilbo realizes the flaw in his plan to save the dwarves and himself from the Mirkwood elves): I don't suppose you would have done half as well yourselves in his place. So, The Hobbit's narrator is an interesting addition to the book. And I'm curious what you all think about it

To start us off – a few questions. Feel free to answer as many of them as you like and any other questions or thoughts that might occur to you are most welcome!

• How do you think the partial narrator enriches the book and the story? Or do you think it's quite the contrary – it takes something away? Why?
• What is the narrator's position regarding various moral issues (for example, honesty, greed, etc.)? What does it think about various characters (for instance, aforesaid Bilbo, the dwarves, etc)? What gives you those impressions?
• What can you tell about the narrator's personality? Do you like it?
• How do you imagine the narrator who tells us Bilbo's story? What makes you imagine it like that?

Posted by: ravenclawgirl34 Jun 23 2008, 10:41 AM

How do you imagine the narrator who tells us Bilbo's story? What makes you imagine it like that?

I'll just take this one, for the moment, since I have a fairly good mental image/voice for the narrator. I imagine it as a definite him, an old grandfatherly like man, telling a story. I think the narrator is a composite of Bilbo and Frodo and Tolkien, (since supposedly Bilbo wrote down his adventures, which were then edited by Frodo, and then found and translated into English from Westron by Tolkien). Why? Hmm... maybe because my grandpa tells such good stories, and sometimes it seems like something he'd say, if he were telling the story. The narrator has a sense of humor, and seems to remember back to a time when things were not the same as now.

Posted by: wordsaremagic Jun 23 2008, 10:46 AM

In general, it is always good to think of the narrator of a story as a character: a persona created by the author for the purpose of telling the tale. Every narrator presents us with a particular point-of-view (omniscient, first person, third-person, dramatic, etc.). In The Hobbit, the narrator is richer in character than most third person narrators in that he not only presents the story through his viewpoint character (Bilbo, into whose mind and emotions he can easily see), but also comments on those thoughts and emotions as well as upon the behavior of other characters and upon the morals or values of the world around them.

Now, admittedly, if we judge things by the strictness of the writer's adherence to the limited viewpoint of Bilbo, the writing seems undisciplined. However, it is more consistent than LOTR (especially The Two Towers) where POV jumps a good deal.

As I read, I get an impression of a man commenting to children or grandchildren as he tells the tale, often using the narrative comments as a kind of pacing device. I like, for instance, the often repeated statement that Bilbo thought of his comfortable Hobbit hole, not for the last time. I can almost envision him smiling as he elevates his voice just a bit to repeat this line that the audience would recognize. It gives continuity to the story line and maintains a relationship between audience and narrator.

In general I believe it is a book best appreciated by reading aloud, by having the reader look up from the book straight at the audience and deliver certain passages almost as though they were not part of the book. That is, don't read the book--deliver it. As I go over the book again for this forum, I find myself sitting out on my patio in the cool of the evening reading it aloud to myself. I enjoy the voice of this narrator.

Posted by: Moose_Starr Jun 23 2008, 11:40 AM

The Narrator in The Hobbit is much more *present* than in some books, like in some books there's just a story being told & you dont really think about it, but in The Hobbit it's a distict character, addressing the reader(s) and even asking us questions, making us stop in our reading to wonder, what *would* I have done in Bilbo's place?
It would be interesting to read The Hobbit in another language, to see if the narrator is always talking to the same person, or if at times he's talking to the reader in general (like when he says something like *as you will see later*) and at other times talking directly to me (like in the Barrels Out Of Bond chapter) In my interpretation, the narrator sometimes addresses the readers in general & at other times he's talking directly to me. It would be interesting to know how the translators interpreted the *you* or if JRRT gave them insight about translation.

Posted by: Pyxis Jun 25 2008, 11:54 PM

I also imagine the narrator as a grandfather-type person, but I can't decide if I liked the narrator interrupting. I found it distracting on occasion, as I tend to get very involved in my books, and the narrator jumping in reminded me that it was a story. On the other hand, I did like some of the commentary, especially the "this later became a saying, out of the frying pan, into the fire" kind of stuff; which is probably why I lean to the grandfather storyteller image.

I think the narrator is definitely well versed in Hobbit culture, so that leads me to imagine the narrator as an accepted member of that culture.

Posted by: Moose_Starr Jun 26 2008, 11:37 AM

That's interesting because, I found the narrator's commentary to fit naturally. JRRT's writing is so evocative & full of imagery that I got caught up in the story and felt as though I was there as it was all happening, and when the narrator spoke it was as if he was walking along beside me pointing things out or explaining things.

Posted by: Perenelle Jun 27 2008, 01:05 PM

The narrators interruptions reminded me that this is seen as a children's book. (Whether it is or isn't is another discussion). I found them funny, but also slightly patronising. It's an old-fashioned way of story-telling that isn't so common any more. I agree with Pyxis that it brings about a certain 'stepping back' from the story, a step removed from the actual tale. Whether that's good or bad I'm not sure, but it certainly succeeds in changing the pace.

Posted by: Fricka Jun 27 2008, 01:08 PM

I guess I have a slightly different take on the narrator than those posting already--i mean, it does make sense that the narrator is a kind of character in the books.
However, whenever I read the hobbit, I guess I just figure that the narrator is Tolkien himself. Perhaps it's from reading some of his life history, but it just seems to me that it's almost like him sharing with the readers a story that he made up for his children.
When I read the asides like"you must remember he was only a little hobbit," I take that as the kind of comment a storyteller would make to keep the interest of his audience and also keep them from making judgments on what the character may or may not be doing or feeling.
He certainly did not do that when he got the the Lord of the Rings trilogy, so my impression is that The Hobbit is his exploration of this world that he is making up, and at this stage, it's closer to a children's story than what the Lord of the Rings turned out to be.
I will come back to this later.

Posted by: Moose_Starr Jun 28 2008, 11:09 AM

Personally, I still dont see the narrator as intruding or indicative of it being a childrens book (but, this is only my opinion) I like Fricka's description of the storyteller sharing a story with an audience. I read a lot of graphic novels, which some people still think are kids comic books. They can be, but, they can also be *regular* stories told through pictures. It's not uncommon to have a narrative running above or between frames, telling the part of the story that we dont see. And, oftentimes the narrator is a character, or different characters narrate to let us see the backstory or parts of events that we wouldnt otherwise see. Fricka's description reminds me of a series I'm reading, The Rabbi's Cat by Johan Sfar, where oftentimes the person narrating really is sitting in front of an *audience*, a gathered crowd or a group of friends, telling the story to the audience (and to the reader) and even sharing a joke maybe not directly related to the topic at hand. Personally I dont see it as a distraction or diversion from the flow of the story, to me it makes it more real, like a real conversation might go off on a tangent before resuming its flow.

So maybe for that reason I dont see the narrator in The Hobbit as intrusive or interrupting, and although it's not as in depth as LOTR I still question whether it's a *kids book*. I know it is described as a kids book but, so is HP & I strongly disagree with that, too.

Posted by: Mary Wanguard Jun 29 2008, 05:59 AM

Hm... these are very interesting thoughts. Personally, I've never seen the narrator as a intrusion or disruption to the story. I think, it makes me imagine that we (the narrator and me) are sort of following Bilbo and everyone else and observing what happens. Thus, even though the narrator's manners and speaking are sort of old-fashioned, I don't imagine him (since I imagine a guy) as old. Since it was my dad who used to read to me when I was little (we didn't read The Hobbit though), I think, I imagine the narrator kinda like him.

Well, I've only read The Hobbit in my native language (Lithuanian). And yeah, in our language there's a difference between "plural you" and "singular you". And the narrator is always using the plural, which I find kinda interesting and funny, because every time the narrator addresses, well, the "us", I get a mental image that there's a whole bunch of "us" with the narrator following Bilbo, elves, orcs and everyone else and sort of eavesdropping on them

Posted by: chiara515 Jun 30 2008, 11:28 AM

I always assumed that the narrator was Bilbo and that The Hobbit was basically supposed to be a transcription of The Red Book (or that part of it anyway). I personally find the writing style of The Hobbit and the narrator's interruptions to be rather off-putting - I much prefer the writing and narrative style of LOTR - but the narrator's interruptions do evoke more of an idea of oral storytelling, which I think is appropriate and plausible if you think of Bilbo as the narrator. I think The Hobbit has been "dumbed down" somewhat, for lack of a better way of putting it, because it was supposed to be a children's book, but that's another thing that I can justify or explain away for myself as being because it is Bilbo's story as told by him.