Let sleeping trolls lie, Order of the Phoenix and the 5th task to find the Philosopher's St |
 Apr 27 2007, 06:07 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf  Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release   |
TROLLS IN THE DUNGEON! Throughout the previous Book Clubs, the seven tasks to retrieve the Philosopher’s Stone have foretold and linked into the sorts of adventures the trio faced in each of the other books in the Harry Potter series. Fluffy acted as a Hogwarts-style Cerberus, introducing the reader to the Devil’s Snare, put there by Hufflepuff’s Professor Sprout. Then Professor Flitwick, the head of the House of Ravenclaw, revealed to Harry in an overheard conversation at the Three Broomsticks pub, much about the Fidelius Charm as well as Peter Pettigrew’s supposed role in the betrayal of the Potters. Professor McGonagall’s overgrown and transfigured Chess game, the next task, implied much about the Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire story. The Chess game, itself, like all such games, involves rivalry, motive, strategy, and adherence to the rules. For example, there were the chess pieces, black opposing white, lined up like enemy combatants in an ancient war-game. But Ron, who knew the rules, was able to read the board and direct Hermione and Harry accordingly. And so Hermione and Harry passed onto the next stage in their quest. Which was a stinking, smelly troll, fortunately for Harry and Hermione, lying sound asleep. The troll Harry and Hermione had to get past in the fifth Philosopher Stone task was the defence of their first year DADA teacher, Quirrell, to stop anyone reaching the Philosopher’s Stone. Quirrell even mentioned his skill with trolls at the end of PS/SS, (UK ed. Ch 17, p. 210): QUOTE ‘Certainly. I have a gift with trolls. You must have seen what I did to the one in the chamber back there? Unfortunately, while everyone else was running around looking for it, Snape, who already suspected me, went straight to the third floor to head me off- and not only did my troll fail to beat you to death, that three-headed dog didn’t even manage to bite Snape’s leg off properly.’ How do these smelly, stinking creatures influence the action in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix? Where do they crop up throughout Book 5, and in what ways are this Defence Against the Dark Arts task particularly relevant to DADA as it is taught by one Professor Umbridge? On the other hand, is Hermione’s and Harry’s passing the sleeping troll really the fifth task? Before the publication of the sixth book in the series, on July 16th 2005, one Mugglenet article did not see any connection between Order of the Phoenix and the fifth task to find the Philosopher’s Stone. They thought that Harry’s and Ron’s demolishing the troll in the girls’ bathroom was the first book task, reprised by the sleeping troll, and that the fifth task was actually Snape's potions task. What do you think? And there is another parallel. When Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny found themselves visiting Gilderoy Lockhart in St Mungo’s, they revisited other Chamber of Secrets connections, such as a woman covered in fur, and barking like a dog. And there was a second task herbology connection, the cutting of Devil’s Snare, a Christmas gift. Finally, accompanied by his formidable grandmother, Neville, always best at herbology, who had tried to stop the trio from attempting to face the Philosopher’s Stone task, was visiting his parents, unable to remember and recognise him. Was that particular encounter enough to reorganise the order of the Philosopher’s Stone tasks? Or was the reappearance of the Devil’s Snare, merely a horrible co-incidence? This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Apr 27 2007, 06:13 PM --------------------  Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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May 1 2007, 11:40 AM
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 267 Joined: 11:13pm October 25, 2006 |
QUOTE In what ways are this Defence Against the Dark Arts task particularly relevant to DADA as it is taught by one Professor Umbridge? I'll go for the obvious first - there is nothing required of Harry and Hermione in relation to the troll nor is there any teaching going on in DADA - someone else is doing the teaching just as someone else took care of the troll. Interestingly enough though, is that Hermione is the one who pushed Harry into that rolw of DADA teacher. If I might add to WWW's thought-provoking questions . . . . Is there any significance to Harry and Hermione being the only two to move on? Does Hermione have a bigger impact on Harry throughout OotP? |
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May 1 2007, 01:27 PM
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Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007 |
QUOTE I'll go for the obvious first - there is nothing required of Harry and Hermione in relation to the troll nor is there any teaching going on in DADA - someone else is doing the teaching just as someone else took care of the troll. Interestingly enough though, is that Hermione is the one who pushed Harry into that rolw of DADA teacher. Or: Harry and Hermione did not get a chance to fight the troll, and neither did they get a chance to perform magic in DADA class. Or: a parallel to the way Dumbledore tried to keep Harry out of the conflict in OOTP - first by keeping him watched at Privet Drive, then by keeping him shut up at 12GP and later by attempting to have him learn Occlumency. It also reflect the fact that Harry's involvement in the confrontation at the Ministry was unnecessary - had he stayed put at Hogwarts it wouldn't have taken place at all. The relevance of trolls to OOTP: The DA meets in the Room of Requirement. Facing the place where the room's door sometimes appears there is a moving tapestry of trolls. When Harry and his friends enter the room for the first time there is mention that one of the trolls stops hitting Barnabas the Barmy and instead looks at the students. (This indicates the tapestry is responsive to its surroundings and may serve as a sentry that notes who uses the Room of Requirement. Which may have significance for HBP as well.) |
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May 1 2007, 02:45 PM
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WeasleyCast's Hostess With The Mostest Posts: 6,606 Joined: 2:44am February 20, 2006 Location: At The Burrow taking cooking lessons from Molly |
Another point I would like to mention is that the room with the troll in it was described as having a horrible stench. I like to think of this stench as comparable to the stench of corruption infiltrating the Ministry of Magic and that is prevalent throughout the entire book.
Harry and Hermione enter the smelly room only to discover that someone has taken out the primary target (the troll). Compare this to Harry and Hermione entering the forbidden forest and the centaurs take Umbridge away from them. -------------------- |
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May 1 2007, 05:48 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release |
QUOTE(Nevermore @ May 2 2007, 02:40 AM) [snapback]1201688[/snapback] If I might add to WWW's thought-provoking questions . . . . Is there any significance to Harry and Hermione being the only two to move on? Does Hermione have a bigger impact on Harry throughout OotP? I agree Hermione does have a much bigger impact in the fifth book. Ron just follows on in Hermione's wake most of OOTP. He has acquired the new wand, the new pet, and the new dress robes, replacing the second hand items he had at the beginning of the series. Not only has he gained a Prefect's badge but also a new broom. Although he stays with Hermione and Harry through much of their adventures, he isn't the only one, nor could it be said that he make the most useful contributions. Or would you say he does? Much of the time it seems he finds himself left in a Quidditch role from which his brothers and Harry have been knocked out, and in a prefect role which is bound to have some uncomfortable moments. Hermione it was whose intervention triggered some of the conflict between Umbridge and Harry. She is the one who leads the prefect duties, who dreams up the DA, jinxes the paper, and figures out about the protean charm used on the fake galleons. When Harry does that interview with Rita Skeeter it is through meeting Hermione - Ron is at Quidditch practice. Harry's meeting Hermione at the Three Broomsticks upsets Cho and provokes the end of their brief relationship. Hermione and Harry are the non-relations for whom Mrs Weasley cannot speak - in both cases their guardianship lies elsewhere. And there are other examples. It is Hermione, not Ron, who accompanies Harry into the forest - twice. Firstly while Ron is caught up in the Ravenclaw/Gryffindor game and secondly as Umbridge's hostages. But doesn't this situation change by the end of the book? Wasn't it Hermione who was most badly hurt in the DOM fight? This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: May 2 2007, 04:03 PM -------------------- Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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May 2 2007, 06:57 PM
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 267 Joined: 11:13pm October 25, 2006 |
WWW, those examples are fantastic!
It was Hermione that was most badly hurt I think, but Ron was not very useful either after his brain incident. Hermione, though, was the one who thought to mark the doors in the DOM. Neither Hermione nor Ron is really even mentioned at the end of the book except for when Harry visits them in the hospital wing and on the train ride home. |
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May 4 2007, 05:50 AM
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Monster Book Stacker Posts: 357 Joined: 4:16am March 29, 2007 Location: Moscow |
What exactly did Dolohov's purple curse do to Hermione?
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May 4 2007, 11:12 AM
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 267 Joined: 11:13pm October 25, 2006 |
I don't know exactly - I always figured it was Avada Kedavra but it didn't quite work since he wasn't able to speak it. I figured it was powerful enough though to cause her to collapse.
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May 4 2007, 11:33 AM
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Monster Book Stacker Posts: 357 Joined: 4:16am March 29, 2007 Location: Moscow |
Avada Kedavra is green, not purple.
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May 4 2007, 11:50 AM
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Organizing the Halo Rebellion Posts: 3,301 Joined: 2:09pm April 16, 2006 Location: Being angelic, of course |
This is a friendly modly reminder to stay on the topic of the 5th task (the troll) from Philosopher's Stone to how it relates to the 5th book.
Fawkes28 LL Mod -------------------- |
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